April 29, 2025 • 30 mins
Now is the perfect time for jewelers to explore e-commerce as an additional revenue stream, especially during economic uncertainty. Having your products available for online purchase creates "another line in the water" that can catch unexpected sales with minimal effort.
Download our free e-commerce strategy checklist at punchmark.com/checklist to help get started, regardless of which website platform you're using.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to In the Loop.
I kind of want to get back tothe basics and I want to say, if
you don't have e-commerce now,now is a great time for you to
try out turning it on.
And this doesn't have to be anall or nothing sort of thing.
It can very easily just bedipping your toe and just seeing
what happens.
You're not going to loseanything by having it turned on.
(00:38):
I really do think that havingthe option is just another way
to have a line in the water, asthey say, like just going around
in your fishing boat, justtrolling a little bit, without
really having to try too hard.
I'm going to go through acouple reasons as well as give
some instructionals at the endand some resources, and we can
(00:59):
talk a little bit more about whyI recommend now as opposed to
any other time.
So give it a listen, enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:30):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
punchmark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late totransform your business and
(01:52):
stitch together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmarkcom.
Slash go.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
And now back to the show.
All right, everybody.
So, like I was talking about,now is a great time for you to
try out using e-commerce.
If you don't have it on yet, Ithink that right now makes a
great time.
Um, I think that right nowmakes a great time, especially
(02:28):
as we go into a stranger andstranger and more uncertain
points in the economic kind offlow.
And the reason why I think itis a great time is because
having an extra line of revenueis something that can always be
a benefit, but I do think thate-commerce is something that you
get better at.
You're not going to be perfectright out the gate.
Can always be a benefit, but Ido think that e-commerce is
something that you get better at.
You're not going to be perfectright out the gate, and I think
(02:52):
that is one of the issues thatwe at Punchmark have always
bumped up against is thatjewelers really want to be
perfect, and I commend you onthat.
A plus, but trying is a littlebit better than planning or
thinking.
So if you don't have e-commerceturned on, now is a great time,
but if you have it on, maybeyou'll learn a little bit about
(03:15):
it as I go through.
So I'm not talking aboutreplacing your storefront.
That's not what we're talkingabout.
We're talking about another wayto sell, about another way to
sell, and if you had theopportunity, in addition to your
storefront, to have, forexample, a booth at, like, a
high impact market or somethinglike that, you know, maybe you
(03:39):
would want to try it out, and Ithink that's kind of what having
e-commerce turned on can do, isit just gives the conversation
more directions that it can flowinto.
And what I mean about that isit's not that people are always
going to buy on your website,but the ability that they could
buy is something that, a lot ofthe times, is just as impactful
as the sales.
And we hear all the timejewelers are always having
(04:02):
inquiries come in, either ontheir website, or people go in
and they literally screenshotthe item and the title from
their website and bring it in.
They say, hey, I either wantthis or I want something like
this.
They're doing it in reverse.
They're going to the store,they're looking at stuff and
then they go home and then theybuy it online.
It happens in reverse all thetime, and the part of the reason
(04:23):
for that is that luxurye-commerce trust is at an
all-time high.
It continues to go up.
I wouldn't be surprised if itgoes up for the next five or 10
years even more, because it usedto be back in the wild west.
I still remember the first timeI ever bought something online
(04:44):
and I remember I think I wasbuying sneakers, just like
regular running shoes, and itwas around 2007 or so, and I
remember just being like how dowe know that they're going to
come?
And my mom was like, well, theyusually come, they're going to
come.
I remember I was so notbelieving.
They ended up being delivered.
(05:05):
And there you go, you get yourshoes.
But I think that as you go in,you buy more and more stuff.
Sometimes I buy stuff that Ineed the next day because it's
easier for me than going to thehardware store across town
because, who knows, maybe it'snot open around Easter or
something like that.
And it's not just, you know,batteries that we're buying
(05:28):
online.
People are buying reallyexpensive stuff.
I bought, you know, anexpensive bed, and I know people
who have bought cars online andI know people who have, you
know, bought really expensivewatches.
And luxury extends to all sortsof stuff, and luxury extends to
all sorts of stuff I also wantto talk about, maybe a little
bit about just the perception ofconfidence also, and what I
(05:53):
mean is from, like theretailer's stance.
It has to do with what if youship out something and the check
bounces or the card getsdeclined or the card was stolen
or you know all the differentways that there is fraud.
And I just want to sayPunchmore comes with.
(06:13):
We have two great fraudprotection companies that we
work with.
We have ClearSale, we have Eyefor Fraud.
I'm a big fan of both of them,I've had them on the podcast
before and I really do thinkthat that kind of stuff is so
important.
If you have any fear aboutmaking a sale and the dollar is
(06:34):
not coming through, just knowthat these companies they insure
it up 100% if they approve it.
So if you go in and one of thethings that we do at Punchmark
is when we see an extra largesale come through, for example,
at the end of every month I geta report from our platform that
tells me every single sale thathappened and I go through and I
(06:57):
usually like to look just to seeif any big items came through,
if any really small items weresold.
I do think that's veryfascinating too, which stores
are selling a lot, because thereare some stores that are
absolutely killing it, andsometimes I see not every month,
but some months I see a $7,000watch or a $12,000 ring, and
(07:21):
what I do every single time is Igo and I log into their website
and I look to see if they hadfraud protection and if the
fraud protection scan came backpositive or confirmed.
And if it has, then that was,for all intents and purposes, a
successful and real sale.
And the reason why is becauseif ClearSale says, hey, this
(07:45):
ring was approved and is a realcredit card and the dollars make
sense, then, as a result, theywill insure it.
So, even if the dollars don'ttransact, but if they said it
was good, the dollars will endup in your bank account no
matter what, and I do think thatthat kind of gives you a little
bit of peace of mind.
(08:09):
Okay, we've talked about that alot.
I just wanted to get that inthe very front.
Is that fraud protection issomething that can set things
away.
Okay, but what about the work?
And I think that this is one ofthem, and every time I go to a
jewelry show.
I hear this more than everythingis like oh, our website's just,
we're just not set up to shiplike that.
And it's like okay, but like,but, why not?
(08:31):
You know, and a lot of thetimes they're like, oh, we want
them to come in, but it's likeokay, what if?
Here's an example someone grewup in your hometown.
They still have some familyback in your hometown, but they
themselves have moved away andthey still have that loyalty to
you.
They want to find a way to giveyou their money.
It's like, oh, but they couldjust call me, but they don't
(08:54):
want to call you, they want tocheck out online.
That's a super easy way to makeit so that they can do that.
Don't turn away their supportin dollars if they want to give
it to you.
And the other thing is is justagain, it's less work than you
think.
Don't let perfection stand inthe way of your progress.
So what I mean by that is juststarting simple, starting with
(09:18):
maybe one or two lines of yourjewelry on your website and
making sure that they areenabled for checkout.
So maybe you have a line of anin-house line or like just
fashion jewelry, so it's lowerprice point items.
I think that allowing that kindof stuff or, you know,
providing the checkout ability,is so much better than not.
(09:39):
It's just having, like I said,another line in the water.
If you're fishing and you'reboating around, when you go from
spot to spot, it's best to havea line in the water because,
who knows, if you catch anything, I understand where you're like
, oh, but what if it gets caughton a snag?
But it's like no, more oftenthan not you're going to be
(10:00):
nothing will happen, or maybeyou catch a fish.
That's a bit of a redneckanalogy, but I hope you get my
point.
And the other thing is is theeconomy is kind of weird right
now.
I'm sure you've seen all thenews.
I had an episode all scheduledand planned to talk about
tariffs and I had to cancel thatepisode because the tariffs
(10:22):
were paused for 90 days.
The world is, the economy isweird.
It's just a strange time.
And what that means is thatsometimes consumer spending is
strange, and I think that Idon't need to be the one to
explain that to you.
As a retailer, you're probablyseeing it in real time.
Most likely, real time mostlikely.
(10:48):
But just a few e-commerce salesa month or every other month is
sometimes enough to just kindof ease things up a little bit.
And who doesn't want the freemoney Because that's what a lot
of these are is just free cash,just free sales.
So let's just say you make onesale a month, that is once every
30 days.
That is 12 sales at the end ofthe year.
And what's funny about that iswhat if I was to say to you okay
(11:12):
, you know, store Michael'sJewelry.
What if at the end of the year,on December 5th, you could have
12 bonus sales at the end ofyou know, december 12th?
Would you want that or wouldyou not want that?
Most likely you'd say, yeah,give me the bonus sales.
And that's kind of how I viewthis is.
(11:34):
These are just like littlefreebies that come and go, takes
a little bit of work on yourpart just to put them in a box,
ship them out, but I do think ifyou put the work in place, it
is a kind of a freebie.
And maybe I can tell you aboutan example of this.
So for my jewelry, for mypainting business, the thing
that's kind of funny is thatpaintings, so arts and jewelry,
(11:58):
are both classified as luxurygoods.
They are a want and not a need.
And what I think is reallyfunny about it is that when I
get a sale I am stoked off myEtsy.
I use an Etsy and becausethey're handmade and it's kind
(12:20):
of a smaller market and peoplego specifically to places for
handmade artwork as opposed tokind of established artwork,
that's why I use it.
But the other day I made a sale, for I'm just I just opened up
my Etsy dashboard.
I made a sale to this guy outin, I guess, in New York City,
(12:42):
essentially on March 11th, andit was for let me even pull it
up yeah, $300.
And it was funny because I wasactively not promoting my Etsy
at all.
The reason why is I'm gettingready for an exhibition and when
you do exhibitions you sort ofstockpile a lot of work because
(13:04):
then you sell it all togetherand there's kind of like a
compounding or networking effectbetween the art pieces where if
you have a lot of them, you cansort of bump up the prices on
all of them at the same time, asopposed to selling them one at
a time.
So for me I'm not promotinganything and I had a couple of
pieces on my Etsy for this onein particular I had had up there
(13:29):
for two and a half years.
It was a painting I had madekind of early on back in what is
that?
Probably 2022.
It's a style that I don'treally use anymore, like it's
about a subject that I don'teven paint anymore.
I usually paint these naturescenes and this is a scene from
a game, and what's funny is Iprobably would have taken it
(13:51):
down at some point just to kindof clean up the inventory, but
because I was stockpiling mypieces, I didn't really need to
do that yet.
So I figured, like I just beentalking about, why not just keep
it in, keep the line in thewater as I boat from place to
place?
And here comes $300 out of thesky and they ordered it, I
(14:13):
remember, at like three in themorning and this guy, it turns
out, was buying like a gift, andwhat's kind of funny is when
you go you can view what otherpages they had viewed.
So I saw that he was looking forstuff similar to this painting.
So he wasn't even looking formy paintings.
He was looking for a paintingthat was in this style or this
(14:38):
kind of genre.
And I popped up and I was, youknow, $320 richer for it.
I would not have had that moneypop into my account and I
probably would never have soldthat painting.
If I had not had things turnedon, the guy would have had to,
you know, inquire if you will.
(14:59):
And is that guy going to try toinquire at three in the morning
?
The answer is likely not, and Iprobably would not have made
the sale.
This guy would have perused onand gone to someone else and I
would just not have had themoney.
That's kind of how I feel aboutjewelry, too is like I said it's
a want and not really a need,and, as a result, you're
(15:21):
probably seeing these peoplemaking these purchases that are
not always, as you know, maybenot as informed, especially when
it's the lower price pointitems.
That's what I'm alwaysencouraging people is look
honestly.
I can get why you might notwant to sell an engagement ring
online.
Those can be like a big dealand maybe you want to clientele
(15:44):
around it and maybe you want tobuild it up and make it like a
special thing.
But I will also say isn't themoney good?
Like the money is just spentexactly the same, and I think,
at the same time, having some ofyour jewelry available for sale
, whether it's the fashionjewelry or the fine jewelry
might make it so that thatbecomes another option, and I
(16:09):
think that that is somethingthat more jewelers should
consider Maybe not punchmarkclients clients, because we've
been banging the drum for awhile, but if you're out there
and you're not a punch markclient yet, I hope that you at
least consider turning it on,okay, the other thing I want to
talk about is just the averageorder value.
(16:30):
So I pulled some statisticsaround the punch mark platform.
So I get this report, like Isaid, around the Punchmark
platform.
So I get this report, like Isaid, every month I come in, I
break it down, I report on it tomy bosses, and one of the
reports that I pull has to dowith the number of clients that
make sales and the averagetransaction size, and the one
(16:52):
thing that is really encouragingis that the number of clients
who are making one sale is thehighest it's ever been.
Punchmark also has the mostclients we've ever had, so maybe
that number is skewed.
But the other thing is thenumber of clients with two or
(17:13):
more sales is also the highestit's ever been.
With two or more sales is alsothe highest it's ever been and
what that means.
Two sales in a month to me meansthat you've got it figured out.
I don't think you accidentallymake two sales in a month very,
very easily.
I think that maybe you make onesale, maybe someone just kind
of stumbles onto it and they'relike in a pinch, but I do think
(17:34):
two sales.
That kind of shows you got itfigured out.
And the other part is theaverage transaction size.
So this number is veryinteresting because it does not
always go up.
A lot of these numbers, as weget more clients and as
e-commerce grows, we're seeingthings you know usually go up
(17:55):
into the right for our clients.
However, the one that is notalways up into the right is the
average transaction size.
So I've spoken about this in thepast, but, for example, there
was a peak.
Let me see right around yeah,2022 and 2023, I would probably
(18:15):
say is the peak for averagetransaction size, also some late
21.
And that's because that's whenlab-grown diamonds were really
popular.
People were buying just finejewelry with lab-growns, and
lab-growns were a lot morepricier and people were buying,
yeah, lab-grown diamonds,earrings, necklaces and all
(18:36):
sorts of stuff.
So the average price, we'lljust say, was $150 higher.
So the average price was prettymuch $150 more than it was, as
the price has now, you know,retreated to what it is today.
Today.
So the average price in March of2025 on our platform, the
(18:56):
average order value, or AOV, was$406.
So that means there's this manytransactions and this many
total dollars transacted.
So when you divide thosenumbers, the AOV becomes $406.
However, I do think that is alittle bit misleading, and the
(19:21):
reason why is in March we alsosaw a couple of items sold for a
lot of money.
There was one person who sold avery expensive chain for in the
$5,000s.
There was one person who soldan expensive bangle for in the
4,000s.
Let's see I'm just scrollingthrough yes, a hearts on fire
(19:44):
mini hoop earring for in theclose to 5,000s.
So all I'm saying is thosenumbers then skew.
So what we could do is maybe wecould control for outliers, but
where's the fun in that?
But what I will say is that ifI look at the majority of sales
by clients who had, you know,less than five sales in a month,
(20:07):
so that basically means we arecontrolling for clients who are
not making e-commerce a megafocus I'm seeing, on average,
average jewelers are doing, youknow, between zero and five
sales.
I guess if that's what we'recontrolling for zero and five
sales and they're all doingbetween $44 and $1,300 is kind
(20:33):
of the range.
So then if you control insideof that, we're looking at about
$250 for like these average runof the mill sort of purchases.
So what kind of jewelry do youhave?
That's in the $200 range, $250to $350 range, and those should
(20:53):
be kind of the starting point ifyou don't have e-commerce on
yet.
So what if you look throughyour boxes and you're like, oh,
I've got so many pieces ofjewelry I couldn't possibly put
everything online?
I would start there, and I dothink that those give you the
highest chance for checkout,purely because there's more
shoppers that are falling intothat range of shopping.
(21:17):
Shopability I don't know ifthat's a word, so something to
kind of chew on.
If you need a starting point isjust knowing that.
That is the kind of sweet spotwhen it comes to dollars.
And the last thing I well, notthe last thing One of the things
I'll say is it's like oh, butwe have inquire or we have call
for price or we have a galleryof items.
(21:39):
I have to be honest, I hate callfor price.
I would sooner die.
I would sooner go somewhereelse than call you for the price
.
I would literally never do thatand I think that there are a
lot more people than you expectthat would sooner do that.
So, basically, to me it's likea picture book.
(22:00):
It's like it doesn't get meanything.
If I read about something andthen I don't know what the price
is, I would sooner you just noteven show it to me and the
whole like oh, it's called forprice, but it's like I am just
going to assume that, that youknow bangle, even though it is
probably $300, I'm just going toassume it is $7,000 because I
(22:23):
don't know anything aboutjewelry.
This is coming from a layman.
I would highly recommend thatyou put real prices on your
products.
I feel like that goes withoutsaying, but you'd be surprised
by how many people have that.
One thing I will also say is I'mnot even going to spend too
(22:44):
much time talking about it,because In the Loop used to be
all about e-commerce andmarketing and stuff like that,
and sometimes we were alwaystalking about, like website
design and it's kind of funny,the average website design these
days this is in 2025, thesedays is just excellent.
These days is just excellent.
Even websites that are notpunchmark websites, I'll say
(23:06):
that are actually really qualitywebsite designs.
I'm going to say that it'seasier than ever to have a
website that looks and feelsgreat on either a mobile design
or a desktop design.
I think that I mean, everythingis just so well built these
days that I would not say youknow.
(23:27):
That is basically a commonhurdle.
If you can't do that, let'stalk, because you should be able
to do that.
But what that comes down to isthen it's your work that goes
into it and, like I said, itshould be, don't let perfection
stand in the way of progress.
And the other one is knowingwhere the sweet spot is and also
just kind of understanding aprocess behind your orders.
(23:51):
If you, for each platform it'sgoing to be different, you know,
getting this thing turned on.
There's usually a processbehind like making sure that you
have an e-commerce gateway,making sure that you have an
e-commerce gateway, and you havelike a process behind making
sure that your website is, youknow, connected to a bank
account, for example.
So that is going to bedifferent.
(24:12):
For Punchmark clients, allyou'd have to do is just open a
ticket in Site Manager for youraccount manager and they'll get
things set up for you very, very, very easily.
So some of the other thingsthat you got to set up your
default availability for yourproducts, your shipping options.
So some jewelers like to shipeverything first class or in
(24:34):
priority, some like to ship itas ground, for whatever reason.
I recommend having a couponcode that you can provide people
at the store as a hook to getthem to buy online when they
leave.
Just to keep it, just set acoupon code that never expires.
That's what I have for my store.
(24:56):
Is, if someone walks up to mypainting booth at like, for
example, an art walk or afarmer's market or something
like that, and they're reallyinterested, but let's just say
they don't have time or theyhave to run or they don't have
the dollars right now, and Ikind of want to give them the
option.
I have a business card and whatI do is I just take a pen and I
write down the same code and itis friend of Mike, and I just
(25:22):
give them that I write couponcode, friend of Mike, and what
that does is it offers them 10%off when they get home and I
mark everything up online atleast 10%.
So there is an incentive to buynow, because we've always
talked about that buy nowreasoning.
But I recommend you set up sometype of thing so that you can
hook people.
Free shipping is another goodone, because shipping can be
(25:43):
expensive for luxury goods.
Just another thing to thinkabout.
Another one again fraudprotection, important Return
policies.
Punchmark platform already kindof gives you a default one, but
you might want to customize ita little bit.
Yeah, merchant gateways andjust knowing that you have your
navigation set up for success.
(26:04):
Punchmark kind of keeps an eyeon these sort of things.
We try to make sure that youdon't completely shoot yourself
in the foot when it comes toyour flow of your website and
your navigation.
We've had to have some callswith some clients be like, hey,
you know that this is not reallysmart to do.
And sometimes clients tell us,yeah, that's how we want it.
And it's like okay, you do whatyou're smart to do.
(26:25):
And sometimes clients tell us,yeah, that's how we want it, and
it's like okay, you do whatyou're going to do, but for most
intensive purposes.
The e-commerce landscape ispretty established out there and
the best practices have kind ofbeen ironed out for the last 10
or 15 years.
So we kind of have an idea andmost likely, you have an idea
too.
So if you're trying to activatee-commerce, if you're
(26:45):
interested in starting this,this doesn't cost any money.
If you're a Punchmark client,it doesn't cost any money.
For me, we have actually ane-commerce strategy checklist
available and I'll have thislink in the show notes below.
But what it does is itbasically going to be a form and
we'll send you most of thethings that you're going to need
and what that is.
(27:06):
It's going to be punchmarkcomslash checklist and what you can
do is it'll download this niceold PDF and it'll help you,
regardless of what websiteplatform you're on, and I think
one of the things I'm trying todo for in the loop right now is,
again, I don't want you to feelleft out.
If you're not one of ourclients, we get it.
(27:27):
Maybe we're not in your budgetor you're switching, or you're
not ready to switch.
Whatever, I do want theseepisodes to still help you, but
I do think, no matter whichwebsite platform you're with,
having e-commerce turned on andshowing your prices is some of
the best things you can do,given all of the outside factors
(27:50):
Weird economy, price of goldhigher than ever, all these
different things, lab-growndiamond prices you know doing
what they're gonna do.
Having it on is just one ofthose things.
When you make your first sale attwo in the morning and you wake
up and you see that you made asale and you go into your store
and you pack away the studs yousold or the random gold earrings
(28:15):
, I think you're going to feelgood about it.
For some reason.
They say that what money won isbetter than money earned and
honestly, sometimes I kind offeel like e-commerce is money
won.
It sort of feels like, oh, Ididn't even deserve this and the
money just kind of fell out ofthe sky, as opposed to like
talking to a client and reallyworking through something and
then getting the sale and thenyou put the dollars away.
(28:38):
The money won, man, I justdidn't have to work for it.
It's pretty exciting and I hopethat you get a chance to feel
that as well.
I'm kind of all ears as to whyyou might not want it on.
If you don't have it on, shootme an email.
I would love to hear yourperspective and maybe I'd
interview you.
My email is michael atpunchmarkcom and shoot me an
(29:02):
email.
Oh, I hate e-commerce.
Because of this reason It'd beilluminating.
And again, one more plug forthat e-commerce strategy
checklist.
It's going to be punchmarkcomslash checklist Everybody.
I think I'll probably leave itright there.
I've been talking for a bit.
The main point of this episodeis the economy, and the current
(29:23):
events of the global economykind of have me I don't know
scratching my head.
I don't really know a ton ofstuff about global economies.
I went to school for design,but I can say that having more
options is usually better thanless options and I hope that you
consider that as well.
And good luck.
(29:44):
Let me know when you make yourfirst sale.
That'd be pretty exciting.
Thanks everybody for listening.
That's the end of the show.
Cheers everybody, bye.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
(30:07):
Cockrum.
Don't forget to rate thepodcast on Spotify and Apple
Podcasts and leave us feedbackon punchmarkcom slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers, bye.
Welcome to In the Loop.
I kind of want to get back tothe basics and I want to say, if
you don't have e-commerce now,now is a great time for you to
try out turning it on.
And this doesn't have to be anall or nothing sort of thing.
It can very easily just bedipping your toe and just seeing
what happens.
You're not going to loseanything by having it turned on.
(00:38):
I really do think that havingthe option is just another way
to have a line in the water, asthey say, like just going around
in your fishing boat, justtrolling a little bit, without
really having to try too hard.
I'm going to go through acouple reasons as well as give
some instructionals at the endand some resources, and we can
(00:59):
talk a little bit more about whyI recommend now as opposed to
any other time.
So give it a listen, enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
This episode is brought to you by Punchmark, the
jewelry industry's favoritewebsite platform and digital
growth agency.
Our mission reaches way beyondtechnology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
in any marketplace.
We consider our clients ourfriends, as many of them have
(01:30):
been friends way before becomingclients.
Punchmark's own success comesfrom the fact that we have a
much deeper need and obligationto help our friends succeed.
Whether you're looking forbetter e-commerce performance,
business growth or campaignsthat drive traffic and sales,
punchmark's website andmarketing services were made
just for you.
It's never too late totransform your business and
(01:52):
stitch together your digital andphysical worlds in a way that
achieves tremendous growth andresults.
Schedule a guided demo today atpunchmarkcom.
Slash go.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
And now back to the show.
All right, everybody.
So, like I was talking about,now is a great time for you to
try out using e-commerce.
If you don't have it on yet, Ithink that right now makes a
great time.
Um, I think that right nowmakes a great time, especially
(02:28):
as we go into a stranger andstranger and more uncertain
points in the economic kind offlow.
And the reason why I think itis a great time is because
having an extra line of revenueis something that can always be
a benefit, but I do think thate-commerce is something that you
get better at.
You're not going to be perfectright out the gate.
Can always be a benefit, but Ido think that e-commerce is
something that you get better at.
You're not going to be perfectright out the gate, and I think
(02:52):
that is one of the issues thatwe at Punchmark have always
bumped up against is thatjewelers really want to be
perfect, and I commend you onthat.
A plus, but trying is a littlebit better than planning or
thinking.
So if you don't have e-commerceturned on, now is a great time,
but if you have it on, maybeyou'll learn a little bit about
(03:15):
it as I go through.
So I'm not talking aboutreplacing your storefront.
That's not what we're talkingabout.
We're talking about another wayto sell, about another way to
sell, and if you had theopportunity, in addition to your
storefront, to have, forexample, a booth at, like, a
high impact market or somethinglike that, you know, maybe you
(03:39):
would want to try it out, and Ithink that's kind of what having
e-commerce turned on can do, isit just gives the conversation
more directions that it can flowinto.
And what I mean about that isit's not that people are always
going to buy on your website,but the ability that they could
buy is something that, a lot ofthe times, is just as impactful
as the sales.
And we hear all the timejewelers are always having
(04:02):
inquiries come in, either ontheir website, or people go in
and they literally screenshotthe item and the title from
their website and bring it in.
They say, hey, I either wantthis or I want something like
this.
They're doing it in reverse.
They're going to the store,they're looking at stuff and
then they go home and then theybuy it online.
It happens in reverse all thetime, and the part of the reason
(04:23):
for that is that luxurye-commerce trust is at an
all-time high.
It continues to go up.
I wouldn't be surprised if itgoes up for the next five or 10
years even more, because it usedto be back in the wild west.
I still remember the first timeI ever bought something online
(04:44):
and I remember I think I wasbuying sneakers, just like
regular running shoes, and itwas around 2007 or so, and I
remember just being like how dowe know that they're going to
come?
And my mom was like, well, theyusually come, they're going to
come.
I remember I was so notbelieving.
They ended up being delivered.
(05:05):
And there you go, you get yourshoes.
But I think that as you go in,you buy more and more stuff.
Sometimes I buy stuff that Ineed the next day because it's
easier for me than going to thehardware store across town
because, who knows, maybe it'snot open around Easter or
something like that.
And it's not just, you know,batteries that we're buying
(05:28):
online.
People are buying reallyexpensive stuff.
I bought, you know, anexpensive bed, and I know people
who have bought cars online andI know people who have, you
know, bought really expensivewatches.
And luxury extends to all sortsof stuff, and luxury extends to
all sorts of stuff I also wantto talk about, maybe a little
bit about just the perception ofconfidence also, and what I
(05:53):
mean is from, like theretailer's stance.
It has to do with what if youship out something and the check
bounces or the card getsdeclined or the card was stolen
or you know all the differentways that there is fraud.
And I just want to sayPunchmore comes with.
(06:13):
We have two great fraudprotection companies that we
work with.
We have ClearSale, we have Eyefor Fraud.
I'm a big fan of both of them,I've had them on the podcast
before and I really do thinkthat that kind of stuff is so
important.
If you have any fear aboutmaking a sale and the dollar is
(06:34):
not coming through, just knowthat these companies they insure
it up 100% if they approve it.
So if you go in and one of thethings that we do at Punchmark
is when we see an extra largesale come through, for example,
at the end of every month I geta report from our platform that
tells me every single sale thathappened and I go through and I
(06:57):
usually like to look just to seeif any big items came through,
if any really small items weresold.
I do think that's veryfascinating too, which stores
are selling a lot, because thereare some stores that are
absolutely killing it, andsometimes I see not every month,
but some months I see a $7,000watch or a $12,000 ring, and
(07:21):
what I do every single time is Igo and I log into their website
and I look to see if they hadfraud protection and if the
fraud protection scan came backpositive or confirmed.
And if it has, then that was,for all intents and purposes, a
successful and real sale.
And the reason why is becauseif ClearSale says, hey, this
(07:45):
ring was approved and is a realcredit card and the dollars make
sense, then, as a result, theywill insure it.
So, even if the dollars don'ttransact, but if they said it
was good, the dollars will endup in your bank account no
matter what, and I do think thatthat kind of gives you a little
bit of peace of mind.
(08:09):
Okay, we've talked about that alot.
I just wanted to get that inthe very front.
Is that fraud protection issomething that can set things
away.
Okay, but what about the work?
And I think that this is one ofthem, and every time I go to a
jewelry show.
I hear this more than everythingis like oh, our website's just,
we're just not set up to shiplike that.
And it's like okay, but like,but, why not?
(08:31):
You know, and a lot of thetimes they're like, oh, we want
them to come in, but it's likeokay, what if?
Here's an example someone grewup in your hometown.
They still have some familyback in your hometown, but they
themselves have moved away andthey still have that loyalty to
you.
They want to find a way to giveyou their money.
It's like, oh, but they couldjust call me, but they don't
(08:54):
want to call you, they want tocheck out online.
That's a super easy way to makeit so that they can do that.
Don't turn away their supportin dollars if they want to give
it to you.
And the other thing is is justagain, it's less work than you
think.
Don't let perfection stand inthe way of your progress.
So what I mean by that is juststarting simple, starting with
(09:18):
maybe one or two lines of yourjewelry on your website and
making sure that they areenabled for checkout.
So maybe you have a line of anin-house line or like just
fashion jewelry, so it's lowerprice point items.
I think that allowing that kindof stuff or, you know,
providing the checkout ability,is so much better than not.
(09:39):
It's just having, like I said,another line in the water.
If you're fishing and you'reboating around, when you go from
spot to spot, it's best to havea line in the water because,
who knows, if you catch anything, I understand where you're like
, oh, but what if it gets caughton a snag?
But it's like no, more oftenthan not you're going to be
(10:00):
nothing will happen, or maybeyou catch a fish.
That's a bit of a redneckanalogy, but I hope you get my
point.
And the other thing is is theeconomy is kind of weird right
now.
I'm sure you've seen all thenews.
I had an episode all scheduledand planned to talk about
tariffs and I had to cancel thatepisode because the tariffs
(10:22):
were paused for 90 days.
The world is, the economy isweird.
It's just a strange time.
And what that means is thatsometimes consumer spending is
strange, and I think that Idon't need to be the one to
explain that to you.
As a retailer, you're probablyseeing it in real time.
Most likely, real time mostlikely.
(10:48):
But just a few e-commerce salesa month or every other month is
sometimes enough to just kindof ease things up a little bit.
And who doesn't want the freemoney Because that's what a lot
of these are is just free cash,just free sales.
So let's just say you make onesale a month, that is once every
30 days.
That is 12 sales at the end ofthe year.
And what's funny about that iswhat if I was to say to you okay
(11:12):
, you know, store Michael'sJewelry.
What if at the end of the year,on December 5th, you could have
12 bonus sales at the end ofyou know, december 12th?
Would you want that or wouldyou not want that?
Most likely you'd say, yeah,give me the bonus sales.
And that's kind of how I viewthis is.
(11:34):
These are just like littlefreebies that come and go, takes
a little bit of work on yourpart just to put them in a box,
ship them out, but I do think ifyou put the work in place, it
is a kind of a freebie.
And maybe I can tell you aboutan example of this.
So for my jewelry, for mypainting business, the thing
that's kind of funny is thatpaintings, so arts and jewelry,
(11:58):
are both classified as luxurygoods.
They are a want and not a need.
And what I think is reallyfunny about it is that when I
get a sale I am stoked off myEtsy.
I use an Etsy and becausethey're handmade and it's kind
(12:20):
of a smaller market and peoplego specifically to places for
handmade artwork as opposed tokind of established artwork,
that's why I use it.
But the other day I made a sale, for I'm just I just opened up
my Etsy dashboard.
I made a sale to this guy outin, I guess, in New York City,
(12:42):
essentially on March 11th, andit was for let me even pull it
up yeah, $300.
And it was funny because I wasactively not promoting my Etsy
at all.
The reason why is I'm gettingready for an exhibition and when
you do exhibitions you sort ofstockpile a lot of work because
(13:04):
then you sell it all togetherand there's kind of like a
compounding or networking effectbetween the art pieces where if
you have a lot of them, you cansort of bump up the prices on
all of them at the same time, asopposed to selling them one at
a time.
So for me I'm not promotinganything and I had a couple of
pieces on my Etsy for this onein particular I had had up there
(13:29):
for two and a half years.
It was a painting I had madekind of early on back in what is
that?
Probably 2022.
It's a style that I don'treally use anymore, like it's
about a subject that I don'teven paint anymore.
I usually paint these naturescenes and this is a scene from
a game, and what's funny is Iprobably would have taken it
(13:51):
down at some point just to kindof clean up the inventory, but
because I was stockpiling mypieces, I didn't really need to
do that yet.
So I figured, like I just beentalking about, why not just keep
it in, keep the line in thewater as I boat from place to
place?
And here comes $300 out of thesky and they ordered it, I
(14:13):
remember, at like three in themorning and this guy, it turns
out, was buying like a gift, andwhat's kind of funny is when
you go you can view what otherpages they had viewed.
So I saw that he was looking forstuff similar to this painting.
So he wasn't even looking formy paintings.
He was looking for a paintingthat was in this style or this
(14:38):
kind of genre.
And I popped up and I was, youknow, $320 richer for it.
I would not have had that moneypop into my account and I
probably would never have soldthat painting.
If I had not had things turnedon, the guy would have had to,
you know, inquire if you will.
(14:59):
And is that guy going to try toinquire at three in the morning
?
The answer is likely not, and Iprobably would not have made
the sale.
This guy would have perused onand gone to someone else and I
would just not have had themoney.
That's kind of how I feel aboutjewelry, too is like I said it's
a want and not really a need,and, as a result, you're
(15:21):
probably seeing these peoplemaking these purchases that are
not always, as you know, maybenot as informed, especially when
it's the lower price pointitems.
That's what I'm alwaysencouraging people is look
honestly.
I can get why you might notwant to sell an engagement ring
online.
Those can be like a big dealand maybe you want to clientele
(15:44):
around it and maybe you want tobuild it up and make it like a
special thing.
But I will also say isn't themoney good?
Like the money is just spentexactly the same, and I think,
at the same time, having some ofyour jewelry available for sale
, whether it's the fashionjewelry or the fine jewelry
might make it so that thatbecomes another option, and I
(16:09):
think that that is somethingthat more jewelers should
consider Maybe not punchmarkclients clients, because we've
been banging the drum for awhile, but if you're out there
and you're not a punch markclient yet, I hope that you at
least consider turning it on,okay, the other thing I want to
talk about is just the averageorder value.
(16:30):
So I pulled some statisticsaround the punch mark platform.
So I get this report, like Isaid, around the Punchmark
platform.
So I get this report, like Isaid, every month I come in, I
break it down, I report on it tomy bosses, and one of the
reports that I pull has to dowith the number of clients that
make sales and the averagetransaction size, and the one
(16:52):
thing that is really encouragingis that the number of clients
who are making one sale is thehighest it's ever been.
Punchmark also has the mostclients we've ever had, so maybe
that number is skewed.
But the other thing is thenumber of clients with two or
(17:13):
more sales is also the highestit's ever been.
With two or more sales is alsothe highest it's ever been and
what that means.
Two sales in a month to me meansthat you've got it figured out.
I don't think you accidentallymake two sales in a month very,
very easily.
I think that maybe you make onesale, maybe someone just kind
of stumbles onto it and they'relike in a pinch, but I do think
(17:34):
two sales.
That kind of shows you got itfigured out.
And the other part is theaverage transaction size.
So this number is veryinteresting because it does not
always go up.
A lot of these numbers, as weget more clients and as
e-commerce grows, we're seeingthings you know usually go up
(17:55):
into the right for our clients.
However, the one that is notalways up into the right is the
average transaction size.
So I've spoken about this in thepast, but, for example, there
was a peak.
Let me see right around yeah,2022 and 2023, I would probably
(18:15):
say is the peak for averagetransaction size, also some late
21.
And that's because that's whenlab-grown diamonds were really
popular.
People were buying just finejewelry with lab-growns, and
lab-growns were a lot morepricier and people were buying,
yeah, lab-grown diamonds,earrings, necklaces and all
(18:36):
sorts of stuff.
So the average price, we'lljust say, was $150 higher.
So the average price was prettymuch $150 more than it was, as
the price has now, you know,retreated to what it is today.
Today.
So the average price in March of2025 on our platform, the
(18:56):
average order value, or AOV, was$406.
So that means there's this manytransactions and this many
total dollars transacted.
So when you divide thosenumbers, the AOV becomes $406.
However, I do think that is alittle bit misleading, and the
(19:21):
reason why is in March we alsosaw a couple of items sold for a
lot of money.
There was one person who sold avery expensive chain for in the
$5,000s.
There was one person who soldan expensive bangle for in the
4,000s.
Let's see I'm just scrollingthrough yes, a hearts on fire
(19:44):
mini hoop earring for in theclose to 5,000s.
So all I'm saying is thosenumbers then skew.
So what we could do is maybe wecould control for outliers, but
where's the fun in that?
But what I will say is that ifI look at the majority of sales
by clients who had, you know,less than five sales in a month,
(20:07):
so that basically means we arecontrolling for clients who are
not making e-commerce a megafocus I'm seeing, on average,
average jewelers are doing, youknow, between zero and five
sales.
I guess if that's what we'recontrolling for zero and five
sales and they're all doingbetween $44 and $1,300 is kind
(20:33):
of the range.
So then if you control insideof that, we're looking at about
$250 for like these average runof the mill sort of purchases.
So what kind of jewelry do youhave?
That's in the $200 range, $250to $350 range, and those should
(20:53):
be kind of the starting point ifyou don't have e-commerce on
yet.
So what if you look throughyour boxes and you're like, oh,
I've got so many pieces ofjewelry I couldn't possibly put
everything online?
I would start there, and I dothink that those give you the
highest chance for checkout,purely because there's more
shoppers that are falling intothat range of shopping.
(21:17):
Shopability I don't know ifthat's a word, so something to
kind of chew on.
If you need a starting point isjust knowing that.
That is the kind of sweet spotwhen it comes to dollars.
And the last thing I well, notthe last thing One of the things
I'll say is it's like oh, butwe have inquire or we have call
for price or we have a galleryof items.
(21:39):
I have to be honest, I hate callfor price.
I would sooner die.
I would sooner go somewhereelse than call you for the price
.
I would literally never do thatand I think that there are a
lot more people than you expectthat would sooner do that.
So, basically, to me it's likea picture book.
(22:00):
It's like it doesn't get meanything.
If I read about something andthen I don't know what the price
is, I would sooner you just noteven show it to me and the
whole like oh, it's called forprice, but it's like I am just
going to assume that, that youknow bangle, even though it is
probably $300, I'm just going toassume it is $7,000 because I
(22:23):
don't know anything aboutjewelry.
This is coming from a layman.
I would highly recommend thatyou put real prices on your
products.
I feel like that goes withoutsaying, but you'd be surprised
by how many people have that.
One thing I will also say is I'mnot even going to spend too
(22:44):
much time talking about it,because In the Loop used to be
all about e-commerce andmarketing and stuff like that,
and sometimes we were alwaystalking about, like website
design and it's kind of funny,the average website design these
days this is in 2025, thesedays is just excellent.
These days is just excellent.
Even websites that are notpunchmark websites, I'll say
(23:06):
that are actually really qualitywebsite designs.
I'm going to say that it'seasier than ever to have a
website that looks and feelsgreat on either a mobile design
or a desktop design.
I think that I mean, everythingis just so well built these
days that I would not say youknow.
(23:27):
That is basically a commonhurdle.
If you can't do that, let'stalk, because you should be able
to do that.
But what that comes down to isthen it's your work that goes
into it and, like I said, itshould be, don't let perfection
stand in the way of progress.
And the other one is knowingwhere the sweet spot is and also
just kind of understanding aprocess behind your orders.
(23:51):
If you, for each platform it'sgoing to be different, you know,
getting this thing turned on.
There's usually a processbehind like making sure that you
have an e-commerce gateway,making sure that you have an
e-commerce gateway, and you havelike a process behind making
sure that your website is, youknow, connected to a bank
account, for example.
So that is going to bedifferent.
(24:12):
For Punchmark clients, allyou'd have to do is just open a
ticket in Site Manager for youraccount manager and they'll get
things set up for you very, very, very easily.
So some of the other thingsthat you got to set up your
default availability for yourproducts, your shipping options.
So some jewelers like to shipeverything first class or in
(24:34):
priority, some like to ship itas ground, for whatever reason.
I recommend having a couponcode that you can provide people
at the store as a hook to getthem to buy online when they
leave.
Just to keep it, just set acoupon code that never expires.
That's what I have for my store.
(24:56):
Is, if someone walks up to mypainting booth at like, for
example, an art walk or afarmer's market or something
like that, and they're reallyinterested, but let's just say
they don't have time or theyhave to run or they don't have
the dollars right now, and Ikind of want to give them the
option.
I have a business card and whatI do is I just take a pen and I
write down the same code and itis friend of Mike, and I just
(25:22):
give them that I write couponcode, friend of Mike, and what
that does is it offers them 10%off when they get home and I
mark everything up online atleast 10%.
So there is an incentive to buynow, because we've always
talked about that buy nowreasoning.
But I recommend you set up sometype of thing so that you can
hook people.
Free shipping is another goodone, because shipping can be
(25:43):
expensive for luxury goods.
Just another thing to thinkabout.
Another one again fraudprotection, important Return
policies.
Punchmark platform already kindof gives you a default one, but
you might want to customize ita little bit.
Yeah, merchant gateways andjust knowing that you have your
navigation set up for success.
(26:04):
Punchmark kind of keeps an eyeon these sort of things.
We try to make sure that youdon't completely shoot yourself
in the foot when it comes toyour flow of your website and
your navigation.
We've had to have some callswith some clients be like, hey,
you know that this is not reallysmart to do.
And sometimes clients tell us,yeah, that's how we want it.
And it's like okay, you do whatyou're smart to do.
(26:25):
And sometimes clients tell us,yeah, that's how we want it, and
it's like okay, you do whatyou're going to do, but for most
intensive purposes.
The e-commerce landscape ispretty established out there and
the best practices have kind ofbeen ironed out for the last 10
or 15 years.
So we kind of have an idea andmost likely, you have an idea
too.
So if you're trying to activatee-commerce, if you're
(26:45):
interested in starting this,this doesn't cost any money.
If you're a Punchmark client,it doesn't cost any money.
For me, we have actually ane-commerce strategy checklist
available and I'll have thislink in the show notes below.
But what it does is itbasically going to be a form and
we'll send you most of thethings that you're going to need
and what that is.
(27:06):
It's going to be punchmarkcomslash checklist and what you can
do is it'll download this niceold PDF and it'll help you,
regardless of what websiteplatform you're on, and I think
one of the things I'm trying todo for in the loop right now is,
again, I don't want you to feelleft out.
If you're not one of ourclients, we get it.
(27:27):
Maybe we're not in your budgetor you're switching, or you're
not ready to switch.
Whatever, I do want theseepisodes to still help you, but
I do think, no matter whichwebsite platform you're with,
having e-commerce turned on andshowing your prices is some of
the best things you can do,given all of the outside factors
(27:50):
Weird economy, price of goldhigher than ever, all these
different things, lab-growndiamond prices you know doing
what they're gonna do.
Having it on is just one ofthose things.
When you make your first sale attwo in the morning and you wake
up and you see that you made asale and you go into your store
and you pack away the studs yousold or the random gold earrings
(28:15):
, I think you're going to feelgood about it.
For some reason.
They say that what money won isbetter than money earned and
honestly, sometimes I kind offeel like e-commerce is money
won.
It sort of feels like, oh, Ididn't even deserve this and the
money just kind of fell out ofthe sky, as opposed to like
talking to a client and reallyworking through something and
then getting the sale and thenyou put the dollars away.
(28:38):
The money won, man, I justdidn't have to work for it.
It's pretty exciting and I hopethat you get a chance to feel
that as well.
I'm kind of all ears as to whyyou might not want it on.
If you don't have it on, shootme an email.
I would love to hear yourperspective and maybe I'd
interview you.
My email is michael atpunchmarkcom and shoot me an
(29:02):
email.
Oh, I hate e-commerce.
Because of this reason It'd beilluminating.
And again, one more plug forthat e-commerce strategy
checklist.
It's going to be punchmarkcomslash checklist Everybody.
I think I'll probably leave itright there.
I've been talking for a bit.
The main point of this episodeis the economy, and the current
(29:23):
events of the global economykind of have me I don't know
scratching my head.
I don't really know a ton ofstuff about global economies.
I went to school for design,but I can say that having more
options is usually better thanless options and I hope that you
consider that as well.
And good luck.
(29:44):
Let me know when you make yourfirst sale.
That'd be pretty exciting.
Thanks everybody for listening.
That's the end of the show.
Cheers everybody, bye.
This episode was brought to youby Punchmark and produced and
hosted by me, michael Burpo.
This episode was edited by PaulSuarez with music by Ross
(30:07):
Cockrum.
Don't forget to rate thepodcast on Spotify and Apple
Podcasts and leave us feedbackon punchmarkcom slash loop.
That's L-O-U-P-E.
Thanks.
We'll be back next week,tuesday, with another episode.
Cheers, bye.
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