December 23, 2025 • 52 mins
We close the season by revisiting ten standout moments that shaped a year of change, from AI pricing and buying group leadership to gold’s surge, fancy color diamonds, and how Tahitian pearls really form.
• AI pricing tools and the case for fair markup
• JewelCraft as the jeweler’s jeweler for scale
• Google Workspace as a collaboration backbone
• IJO ownership shift and long-term vision
• Gold price drivers from rates to geopolitics
• Reporting crime with care, not hype
• Fancy color diamonds and profit logic
• JCK Las Vegas
• RJO's leadership focus on systems and learning
• Pearl farming truth beyond the sand myth
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_07 (00:01):
Welcome to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
And this week it's our finalepisode.
This is our wrap-up.
And what I do every year, I'vebeen doing this for I think four
or five seasons of this, is I uhrecap my 10 favorite episodes.
(00:24):
Not always the best performingones, but some that I think
either allowed me to talk abouta topic that I think is very
interesting, or a guest thatturned out to be uh really
influential or had a profoundimpact on me, or even some uh
new types of episodes.
I've been doing interviews forthe entire time Inalupa's been
(00:45):
out, but what I'm starting toget more into is the solo
episodes and they're a quick wayif you know an interview backs
out or I'm struggling with anepisode.
I have a couple of topics that Ithink are really fascinating,
and I would love to kind ofexplore them in a deeper
long-form way.
And everyone's been very niceand been able to listen to those
episodes, so it's kind ofencouraged me to do more.
(01:06):
So without further ado, here aremy favorite moments from 10
episodes from season six of Inthe Loop.
Enjoy.
SPEAKER_03 (01:27):
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(02:14):
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_07 (02:21):
Okay, everybody.
So here are 10 of these episodesI think are very interesting.
Um again, some of these episodesactually were a little bit slept
on, and this is kind of my wayof being like, hey, this episode
it's was really interesting.
I think you should give it ashot.
And also some of these are fromthe most popular episodes.
I always make sure um we get aSpotify wrapped from uh Spotify
(02:44):
as a producer.
So because we publish onSpotify, they actually show us
what our best episodes are.
And one thing that they show usis uh what our most um
downloaded episode was.
And for this past year, it wasepisode 28 of season six, an
AI-powered ring designer thatactually works featuring Stone
(03:06):
Algo.
And I think these guys areamazing, and I thought they were
so fascinating that I actuallyuh am having a follow-up episode
in early of season seven, so beon the lookout for that.
So enjoy transparency.
So transparency is one of thosethings that some people don't
actually want transparencybecause inside of the
(03:27):
transparency is where you canactually have a lot of wiggle
room and markup.
And I do think that for a longtime, jewelry did it as a
luxury.
I think backing up even further,I think luxury as an entire
industry enjoyed uh a lack oftransparency for kind of a
substantial amount of time, youknow, all the way, you know,
(03:47):
through the 1900s before, youknow, these very complicated um
methods for you know uhaccountability and things like
that were actually discoveredand implemented.
One thing I think about all thetime is, for example, cars,
buying a car.
It's one of the last uh vestigesof bartering.
(04:07):
Um it doesn't seem like itexists anywhere else.
And as a result, personally, Ihate that.
I want to walk in, I want you totell me what the price of the
car is.
And I want to be like, is thatthe lowest?
And then to be like, that iswhat the price of the car is.
And for me to buy it and thenwalk out.
There should be no difference mebuying, you know, some bananas
versus buying a uh, you know, atruck.
(04:28):
And I think that diamonds umwere kind of in that realm where
there was like the bartering, ifyou knew a guy, if you, you
know, had this kind ofrelationship, that they would
give you this deal.
And even still, there is still alot of deal and like kind of
like, you know, working throughbecause Julie does experience
this uh a lot of time, Keystonemarkup at every level.
(04:50):
Do you think that that's kind ofwhere the core of um pushback
was coming from?
Is people people felt like youwere eroding their markups and
their ability to actually run abusiness that the way that they
have been for the last, youknow, hundred plus years?
Or was it something more alongthe lines of like you were
divulging trade secrets kind ofthing?
SPEAKER_05 (05:12):
I think you kind of hit the nail on the head.
So we have a fair priceestimate, which is like a
Zillow's estimate for diamonds.
And it doesn't take in allinformation, to be clear.
Like it's not perfect.
Uh a Zillow's estimate's notperfect either.
I think everybody knows that,right?
Like it's taking in whateverinformation it can get, but it
doesn't know necessarily thatthe countertops in the kitchen
(05:32):
are Carrera marble and it's notgoing to price that in uh versus
like, you know, some uhlook-alike countertop that's not
as expensive.
And so like everyone in everyonelistening to this podcast
probably knows that uh twodiamonds that are graded the
same by the GIA could be pricedcompletely different and it's
rational because they're verydifferent items.
(05:54):
Where it gets irrational iswhere two items that are very,
very similar or identical arelisted at totally different
prices because one guy is youknow baking in more markup than
the other.
And then it's like, like you'repointing out, um, you're if
you're gonna, if you're gonnagive transparent information to
the consumer, you're going to beeroding the ability for somebody
(06:16):
to add extra markup.
Uh ultimately you're going toconverge to like what is the
fair markup.
And I think what this industryis missing on the diamond side
is MSRP.
And I don't think it's an easything to solve.
Um, with diamonds specifically,it's, you know, on the dealer
side, it's I think a little morestraightforward because you have
professional versusprofessional.
(06:37):
And even then you'll look onRapNet and you'll see like
there's discrepancy in inventorypricing, and you'll be like, you
know, it's a bad make, or youknow, it's just it's grainy,
it's it's not it's not uh goodmaterial, like whatever,
whatever it is.
Um and and there's a reason whythe pricing is different.
At the consumer level, you haveall those discrepancies plus
(06:58):
markup differences.
And the markup differences canbe really significant across
retailers.
Um and so yeah, I think that abig issue is that there's not
some sort of a concept of MSRP.
We actually are very directlytackling this um within our new
product and uh not on thediamond side, although that is
(07:18):
something we've we've talkedabout solutions for, and I think
we can get closer to that overtime, but it is complicated.
But I do think, like, when youlook at like, for example,
there's an MSRP.
Like you have to sell at acertain price, you can't sell a
new online.
Like, there's all thesedecisions that have been made
about how you create a uhpremium experience for the
(07:42):
consumer and you protect thebrand, right?
And I think the jewelryindustry, some jewelers are very
cutthroat, some jewelers aretrying to bake in as big a
margin as they can, and most aresomewhere in between.
Um, and there does need to be afair amount of markup because
there is a fair amount ofoverhead and labor and um all
(08:02):
sorts, and and returns are ahuge issue now, especially with
you know, lab and natural.
People are ordering multiplediamonds at a time sometimes,
and like creates a lot ofadditional overhead cost for
everybody.
SPEAKER_07 (08:15):
Okay.
Another episode I thought wasreally fascinating was this
episode with Jewelcraft.
Full disclosure, I think thatSteph is awesome from
Jewelcraft.
She's one of the people who Ihang out with at the um at the
shows quite often.
But what I also found reallyfascinating is that she also
seems to be at like kind of thiscenter point between vendors and
retailers, and she has garnereda lot of trust from the
(08:37):
industry.
And I think a lot of that'sbecause Jewelcraft not only does
really good work, has reallygood turnarounds, but they also
are pretty transparent.
Um, I affectionately refer tothem as the man behind the
curtain, kind of like in umWizard of Oz.
And I thought that uh thisinterview kind of revealed them
to be uh sort of this reallyimpactful, silent force that's
(08:58):
in the industry and really doesa great job of keeping things on
track, uh, especially for someof these smaller jewelers uh who
can kind of maybe punch abovetheir weight class a little bit
more with these custom featuresor repairs if they don't have
the the tools or expertisein-house.
So this is from season six,episode three, The Jewelers Ace
Up Their Sleeve, featuringJewelcraft.
(09:19):
I'm joined by StephanieWesthorpe from Jewelcraft.
How are you doing today,Stephanie?
SPEAKER_09 (09:24):
Hey, I'm good, Mike.
How are you?
SPEAKER_07 (09:26):
Doing all right.
I was trying to explain to my uhmy parents who I was
interviewing, and I was like, ohyeah, jewelcraft are kind of
like uh the man behind thecurtain for a lot of jewelry
stores.
Is that kind of a is that a fairassessment, you know, the kind
of the people who are gettingsome of these jobs done uh
behind the scenes?
Is that sort of like a fair kindof summation?
SPEAKER_09 (09:45):
Definitely.
We we are the jeweler's jeweler.
A lot of people don't know thatwe're here, um, but that's
exactly what we do.
We're here to have the retailersback and make sure that they've
got everything that they needfor all of their repairs or any
custom.
SPEAKER_07 (10:01):
Nice.
Yeah, because I guess that myparents have always uh I'm sort
of explaining things throughoutthe years to them.
Like, hey, did you know that notevery jewelry store does uh the
custom jewelry in in-housesometimes?
They're like outsourcing it,they work with professionals
that do it for them, or samething with repair jobs.
And they're like, No, I thoughtthat they would do it in-house.
And it's like some do, but alsosome people just don't have the
(10:24):
staff or the technology or thematerials or just even like they
don't care to.
Okay.
One of the topics that I havetried to get into a little bit
more is this series, recurringseries called Breaking Down the
Best.
And this is my way of kind oftalking about these um either
user experiences or tool sets orwebsites that I think are really
(10:49):
outstanding.
And they're ones that I use alot of.
So I in the past I've donewebsite experiences that I think
are fascinating, and I've doneum, you know, different uh
buying experiences online orin-store that I found really
cool.
And one of these um that Iactually did early in the year,
uh back in uh on February 4th,was breaking down the best,
(11:10):
talking about Google Suite.
So Google Suite is drive, docs,sheets, forms, and slides.
And I talk about why I like themso much.
Uh I use probably two or threeof these tools every single day.
And it's pretty okay to say thatthis suite runs punchmark as
much as any other tool.
(11:31):
Um, we're all using it.
We all use Google Sheets to uhdocument things and kind of have
the sheets uh staying live, ifyou will.
And then Google Docs, I mean,anytime I write copy, I have to
go with Google Docs.
So enjoy from season six,episode five.
This is breaking down the bestof Google Suite.
(11:51):
So, like I mentioned in theintro, this is going to be about
the G Suite.
That's what I'm referring to itas.
That is Google's uh suite ofproducts, and they all work
really well together.
What I'm primarily referring tois Gmail.
It is the industry standard andvery, very much understood to be
the industry standard.
(12:12):
It's free.
And all of these tools are free.
You pretty much access it with aGmail.
Uh Google Drive, which is sortof like a Dropbox, but it
connects and contains all of thefiles for the other ones.
Google Docs, which is sort oflike uh Microsoft Word, except
it's cloud-based.
(12:33):
Google Sheets, which is justlike Excel.
This is the only one which Iwill accept uh people using um
Microsoft Excel for certaininstances if you're like really
deep into making pivot tablesand data and stuff like that.
Google Forms, which is theindustry standard.
I honestly recommend usingGoogle Forms over any other
(12:54):
form, unless you have a CMS likeHubSpot.
Um, then maybe it makes sense topipe it into your CMS, but I
would recommend uh Google Formsfor any other reason.
And Google Slides, which is justlike a uh a slideshow, um, you
know, Microsoft PowerPoint,essentially.
So let's talk about Drive,Google Drive.
(13:16):
So Google Drive is one of thosethings I actually got into when
I was in college.
We organize all of our workthrough Google Drive.
And the reason why I recommendGoogle Drive is that again, it's
cloud-based, which means thateverything can be edited all at
once with all of the differentedits being synced.
(13:37):
So you can actually havemultiple people in the Google
Drive or on the same documents,and they'll be syncing in real
time.
And what that is really greatabout is uh, for example, if
you're using um uh Dropbox andyou have all these um Microsoft
documents, the people can beediting and then someone might
(13:58):
have another version and thenthey merge, and then one gets
overwritten, and suddenly allthat work was lost, which
happens a lot.
I highly recommend if you'redoing something collaborative,
you consider working with uh aGoogle Drive.
It's super easy to figure out.
It kind of the utility of itdoesn't reveal itself until you
(14:22):
start working with two otherpeople, and then suddenly it's
like, wow, this is reallyuseful.
Okay, another one is now thatwe've been doing uh this podcast
for a pretty substantial amountof time, or well over 250
episodes.
One of the things that's beenreally cool is I've been able to
follow these very impressive uhfigures through their careers
(14:43):
and have these recurringinterviews.
And uh people are so generous,they are willing to join me and
talk about um you know what'sgoing on in their life and has
their increasingly um you knowguiding the future of these
either organizations or powerplayers.
And one of those people isSteven Barnes.
Uh Stephen Barnes recently wasannounced, or I guess recently
(15:04):
at the time of the episode, asthe uh new owner of IJO.
IJO, one of the major buyinggroups in the jewelry industry,
they have a lot of sway and alot of impact, one of the places
that we go uh twice a year.
And uh he um was longtimepresident, or I guess president
for a couple years, and then hewas able to buy IJO and become
(15:26):
not just the president but theowner.
Uh, this is big news in thejewelry industry.
This really had an impact andsent a lot of waves, and uh,
this episode really did superwell.
And I think it's because peoplehave this appetite sometimes to
hear a longer form of theseconversations.
I mean, that's why podcasts kindof grew, and I think it allowed
(15:48):
Stephen Barnes to kind ofexplain his future and what it
meant now to have the reinsfully in his hands.
So without further ado, this isseason six, episode 10, from
president to owner, an interviewwith Steven Barnes of IJO.
I am interviewing Steven Barnes,the president and now owner of
IJO.
(16:08):
How are you doing today, Steven?
SPEAKER_01 (16:10):
Man, I am fantastic, Mike.
I am on top of the world.
Life is grand.
SPEAKER_07 (16:14):
Very cool.
This is uh now the third part inour kind of recurring uh series.
And I'm just you knowinterviewing you anytime there's
a change in your title, it seemslike.
Uh, very exciting news.
It was just announced at uh IJOPalm Springs that you are now
the uh sole owner of one of thelargest, if not the largest, uh
(16:35):
jewelry organizations, you know,in North America.
Can you explain to me what beinguh owner and the new sole owner
means to you?
SPEAKER_01 (16:45):
Sure, absolutely.
Well, if it's a dream come trueuh in many um aspects, Michael.
Um, you know, I've been a memberof IJO for over 25 years, or our
family's uh jewelry store hasbeen a member of IJO over 25
years.
I just remember coming to myvery first show and just how
impressed I was and just blownaway with the organization as a
whole.
And so I became very, veryinvolved, very passionate about
(17:09):
the organization.
And and truly a dream of mineone day was to just work for
IJO.
And then as things progressedalong, it's like, man, that re
that became a reality.
And then on top of that, like Inever thought I'd have the
opportunity of being an owner ofIJO one day, but uh, but it it
became a reality.
And uh so yeah, definitely havebeen the dream.
Um, very passionate about um myrole um in this company um and
(17:33):
how we can make everybody aroundus better.
SPEAKER_07 (17:36):
It's really a cool, cool thing to watch.
So you were announced uh it'sjust about been two years or one
and a half years, I guess, uh,since you assumed the the
president role.
And that was uh a prettyexciting move because you had
been a longtime member, like youhad mentioned.
We had our follow-up interviewactually to the day, uh last
year on August 1st, I believe.
(17:57):
And from there, you kind ofprovide a little bit of a
checkup talking about your goalsfor unity inside of IJO, which
was uh really cool to hear, andhow that's something that only
someone who's a real membercould kind of target as a focal
point.
Now, as owner of IJO, I wantedto ask: are you still president?
(18:19):
Is there a delineation betweenthose roles?
Or was president sort of thetitle before you could become
the owner?
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
Yeah, so I think it was definitely a stepping stone
into ownership.
Um, coming from a retailbackground um and a consulting
background, I had to reallylearn um about the
organizational from a corporateuh standpoint versus just, you
know, I mean, I understandbusiness, I understand um all
those things, but it justunderstanding the IJO way and
(18:48):
how IJO runs things.
So I think it was definitely astepping stone towards getting
to where I am today.
Um, as far as what changes,nothing really changes in my
role.
I'm still gonna, you know,assume the role of president.
I'm still going to um be theleader of this company.
Um, I feel like I've got 20 moregood years in me to make this
happen.
And so I'm looking long term onthis.
(19:10):
I'm I'm setting up 20-year plansright now and goals for you know
the next 20 years of how I canuh bring everybody along with
me.
So yeah, it definitely isnothing really changes for me in
this ownership role.
Um, still gonna be thevisionary, still gonna provide
the leadership that thisorganization needs.
I love that.
SPEAKER_07 (19:28):
All right.
One of the, I mean, mostimportant topics in the jewelry
industry for all of 2025 hasabsolutely been the price of
gold.
I brought it up uh a milliontimes in a million different
episodes, but I actually want todo a very specific episode uh
for why the price of gold waspushing even higher than it
(19:50):
normally was.
And uh it's still all time highspretty much right now.
Um I've even looked into tryingto buy some gold as like a means
of investment.
And I sat down, I really Reachedout to some people and it was
like, who should I talk tothat's an expert on this?
And a lot of people pointed meto uh this guy, David Sminsky.
And he is so interesting.
(20:11):
He was very articulate about theoutside factors that impact the
price of gold and why it's notjust an arbitrary thing.
And by sitting down with him, hestarted to explain to me what uh
is causing this, and also hemade some predictions.
I thought that was very bold ofhim.
Uh, I definitely want to speakwith him again in season seven.
Um, I saw him at JCK, and he wasso nice.
(20:33):
Uh, very cool episode.
So, this is from season six,episode 13 Why is the price of
gold so darn high?
Featuring David Sabinsky.
SPEAKER_06 (20:43):
This is one of some of the factors if that basically
uh effectable the value of theUS dollar, the U.S.
interest rates, the economicconditions in a country.
Now what happens is aka likeChina, but now you can actually
throw in their tariffs.
Throw in tariffs, strikes andother pipeline issues when it
comes to actually getting it outof the ground and getting it to
(21:04):
market.
The geopolitical factors, youknow, we we're living at right
now, and every country we'reliving at right now.
The supply from producers andthe demand for jewelry, the
actual demand from the consumer,okay?
Inflationary trends, the goldreserves.
Like I know they were gonna gotry and go into Fort Knox and
see if the gold was there.
I haven't heard a report if thegold's there yet or not.
SPEAKER_07 (21:26):
I haven't heard it either.
My my boss actually asked me toask about what if they go in and
it's not and it's all gone.
SPEAKER_06 (21:33):
What if they go and it's not there?
The investment demand,speculation in the market for
the traders that arespeculating, and a safe hazen, a
safe haven, you know, you know,where people's stocks are too
volatile so they run to gold.
Those are like the 10 factorsthat actually affect the price
of gold.
And it's like I always tellpeople it's even like uh from
(21:54):
that standpoint, even if you fixfive of them, they're still or
feel with five of them, five ofthem are still out there running
wild.
So what happens is, and after Iused to say this, I used to say,
and there's one thing thatalways happens if somebody fires
a missile, all bets are off.
So if someone fires a missile,how does that change the gold
(22:14):
market?
And then believe it or not,after I said it after one of my
seminars, a missile was firedfrom one country to another,
gold went up that day,$50 okay,right away, and by the next day
it returned.
You know, so it's like what'sactually moving it so it's that
valuable at this point, youknow.
Like I said, every one of theevery one of these little things
(22:35):
I just listened are part of thethe part of the the influence,
but what what is really the maindriver, I think, was really what
your question was.
What was the really the maindriver?
And I think it's all thedrivers, Michael.
I think it's all fascinating.
No matter where you're comingfrom.
SPEAKER_07 (22:53):
Okay.
One of the things that'simportant about running a
jewelry podcast is I have tomake sure I get my news um from
a reputable and reliable source.
Um, there's a lot of news outthere that I think is
interesting, but it might notalso be impactful for the
jewelry industry.
And when I say the jewelryindustry, I mean specifically
(23:15):
the retailers, vendors, andmaybe tech providers and the
people that are like kind ofpushing things forward.
Uh, you know, my family might beinterested in, is maybe
different than what ourlisteners are going to be
interested in.
But the group that I get a lotof my news from, even some of my
topic ideas for future episodes,is National Jeweler.
(23:37):
Um I'm subscribed to their emailblast, and they, you know, I
read it every single time theycome in.
I read the headlines typicallyand I try to read at least one
uh of them.
And I think uh the episode I didwith Michelle Graff, who is the
editor-in-chief at NationalJeweler, was super fascinating.
And I think that she, again, isone of those people that has
(23:58):
seen the industry through a lotof change and will be with us uh
through even more change.
And having someone that kind ofis comfortable and understands
uh where we've been and wherewe're going uh is it just makes
for an excellent interview andan excellent topic uh to speak
with.
So uh enjoy this episode.
This is season six, episode 17,what the heck is happening in
(24:20):
the jewelry world featuringMichelle Graf, editor-in-chief
at National Jeweler.
On the topic of you know, smashand grabs and and and robberies,
um, it's a topic that I have,you know, we're 250 episodes
into this.
I've always wanted to do anepisode specifically about uh
security and and and androbberies and and things like
(24:43):
that because it is inherently apart of the industry.
It's not something that peoplelove to to discuss that much,
and that's one of the reasonswhy I don't know how to go about
it.
Should I be speaking withsomeone who was just robbed or
had a case that was that wascovered or um has been resolved?
You guys have always um coveredthese with a lot of touch, I
(25:07):
might say, or grace or whateverthat word is, because we don't
want to sensationalize it,though news can be sensational,
you know, can be um, I mean, itthere's tons of movies about
about robberies and and aboutand it's usually from the the
thief's point of view.
Uh how do you balance that kindof that that topic where it's
(25:31):
it's educating the public, it'sin you know, conveying the the
information, but it's not thatsensationalism which like might
be giving kind of almostencouragement to the act.
SPEAKER_08 (25:43):
Right.
Um, so why am I telling peoplethis?
This was also covered on theirlocal news, it was in their
local newspaper.
People posted about it on nextdoor or on Facebook or whatever.
But we want to point out like,hey, in this situation, this is
what happened.
These are things that could havebeen done differently to prevent
the crime or mitigate thelosses.
(26:04):
And that's what we always try tokeep in mind.
Um, and if you want to talk tosomeone about security, call the
jurors the security alliance.
Um, John Kennedy is he justretired.
He was great, he ran it foryears.
Jennifer is doing a great job,and they absolutely will help
you.
And anytime they put out abulletin, an alert, you know,
(26:24):
there was a, you know, a massivesafe robbery at XYZ, they always
include a list of tips.
You know, don't put your safehere.
You know, X one, two, they justinclude a list of five, six tips
about like, you know, here'swhat this situation happened, or
and this is how like this is howthings could have been handled
differently.
And it's not a way to criticizethe store where it happened,
(26:47):
it's just to say if you'refaced, you know, here are things
to think about in your store.
And, you know, it's also good.
Another reason we cover it is ifthere are people who are, if you
will, repeat offenders and wehave good pictures of them, you
could say these three peoplehave now, you know, committed
smash and grabs or grab and runsor distraction thefts that, you
(27:08):
know, stores in these states.
So if you're kind of in thisradius, be on the lookout for
these individuals.
SPEAKER_07 (27:14):
Yeah.
No, that's uh, I think that thatmight be the angle is not again,
not celebrating it.
It's more if you can come at itfrom an educational standpoint.
I do think that there isinherent value in that because
it's like, hey, learn from this,you know, tragic incident and
and being able to like come outthe better from it.
(27:35):
But I do think that, yeah, theway that you guys handle it is
something.
Um, I hate to say this, I I amvery interested in it.
It is something that I I readthe articles because I do find
that fascinating.
SPEAKER_08 (27:45):
But I mean, honestly, almost everybody does.
Just look in general, like whata big genre true crime is.
And you know, I can tell youfrom our standpoint, those
articles are some of the mostread on the site.
But you know, it's for jewelers,it's universal.
They all have valuable thingsthat people want, they all have
valuable things that are smalland portable and easily moved
(28:07):
along.
And they all have to think aboutthis.
SPEAKER_07 (28:10):
Okay, it's all well and good to be interviewing all
these very impressive peoplethat I meet online, you know,
Dave Siminski and Michelle Graf.
Uh, they're very interesting.
But it's also really cool tomeet these impressive people
that I also just get along withreally well in person.
And one of the people who um Ijust became friends with at uh
(28:31):
actually the Punchmark ClientWorkshop was this guy, Kyle
Pantis from Gems by Pantis.
And he specializes in these uhincredible pieces of jewelry,
especially fancy coloreddiamonds, is what his specialty
is.
And it was so cool getting tospeak with him because uh I just
felt very comfortable.
And I think you can really hearin the uh podcast recording,
(28:54):
because sometimes when I speakwith people, uh they are just
it's more of like a businessconversation.
But with Kyle, I got the chanceto be like, hey, I'm really
interested in what you do.
Can you just explain it to me?
And what was very fascinating isum he took it from you know a
very high-level perspective andthen got into a couple of the
nitty-gritties, which I think ismakes for a very interesting
(29:16):
episode.
A little bit more atypical, notexactly uh a linear
conversation, but he was uh agreat guest.
And this is from season six, TheKing's Diamond Dealer, featuring
Gems by Pantis.
So how often are you buying, areyou typically buying these fancy
stones um in singles?
Or do you you is there anopportunity to buy in lots?
(29:39):
And lots, I at least for me,what I think lots mean is like
parcels.
That's I think actually the moreof the term.
So do you is that like kind ofan angle?
Does that increase the value, oris that actually it seems like
when you're selling a parcel, alot of times the price is
actually coming down becausethey're in in groups.
It doesn't seem like it actuallybehooves you to do that.
SPEAKER_04 (30:00):
Yeah, so so if I buy in parcels, you're gonna get
you're gonna get a discount onthe price per carrot, which
allows you to average cost,right?
You're always gonna have excessmaterial out of that parcel,
even if it's polished goods thatare gonna be your dogs and your
winners, right?
So then you're able to take yourwinners, maximize your profit,
and then you do what you canwith the dogs, right?
(30:20):
So there's that angle.
We do buy stuff like that, um,depending on what it is.
And then in the in the higherend stuff, like a lot of times
I'm getting leads from stores,clients that own stuff for 20
years, 10 years, 15 years,whatever, that want to sell.
Um, I just actually boughtsomething last week off of an
auction house, which was kind ofcool.
(30:41):
There was an opportunity to buysomething off auction.
So I paid even the auction theiryou know, buyer fee or whatever
it was, you know, it's stillokay.
It's still a retail type ofdeal, but you know, there's
value there.
I saw opportunity and I, youknow, I hit the strike, the
strike, as they say.
Um, so things come from all overthe place for us.
SPEAKER_07 (31:00):
Yeah, mainly because I was thinking about, for
example, there's this one watchcompany, which I won't even
mention, uh, that does a uh arainbow watch and uh you know it
has uh rainbows right around thebezel, and it's I mean, it's
just incredible.
Yeah, I tell you.
Uh and what I always think aboutanytime I see it is man, that
(31:22):
must be so hard to get uh aparcel that is the full spectrum
because undoubtedly you're gonnahave like you know 90% of it.
And then it's like, okay, I needa stone that sets in between
this color red and this colororange because that's the way
the spectrum works.
SPEAKER_04 (31:39):
Well, and and and in their case, in the gemstone
world in particular, it's alittle easier to cut the
material.
So it's it's it's a littleeasier to maintain to mass
produce that a little bit morein volume than it would be in
the color diamond world.
SPEAKER_07 (31:53):
Oh, interesting.
I didn't even notice, I didn'tknow that that would be uh
there'd be you know a level, adegree of difficulty compared to
it.
SPEAKER_04 (32:00):
I mean, there's I mean, um, it's not easy, like it
still takes time to color matchthese rainbow color gems.
Like it's definitely a thing,but like if you have a supply
chain for it, like it's thematerial the material is there.
SPEAKER_07 (32:13):
So, like I said, one of the things I'm experimenting
with uh on in the loop as I'vegone through a lot of episodes
is I want to go out and kind ofvlog these events.
Um, anytime I I work from home,it kind of feels a little bit
insulated.
And sometimes it kind of feelslike I'm uh locked in my room
(32:33):
and I'm just exploring the worldthrough a window.
But when I get a chance to goout and experience something, I
want to bring the podcast withme because I think that people
find it also really interesting,especially because um I think
that these vlogs have been veryimportant to me um in you know
different parts of my life uhgrowing up.
I used to follow vloggers a loton YouTube back when I was very
(32:56):
popular.
And it kind of lets me feel likethat as well.
But for uh you know, an industrythat doesn't have a lot of
vloggers, I don't really know ifthere's anyone else that's kind
of making these audio vlogrelated uh pieces.
If there is, maybe send them tome because I'd I'd be happy to
give it a look.
But I ended up going to uh JCKLas Vegas for the first time
(33:16):
since 2021, and uh it haschanged a fair amount.
2021 was a weird year, and uhthis time I got a chance to
really explore Las Vegas, walkaround the show.
Um, I spent a lot of time withHope, our digital marketing
manager, as we kind of walkedaround the different parts of
the JCK show, and uh it was justa really cool time.
(33:38):
So please enjoy the snippet fromseason six, episode 26.
I went to the biggest jewelryshow in the world.
All right, so I just bought somejewelry at K and Out, Karma and
Luck.
It's in are we in the Venetianright now?
Summer call.
It's kind of late on uh Sunday,and we couldn't get into the
(34:00):
Snoop Dogg concert.
The line was too long.
And we just went and bought apiece of jewelry, and honestly,
that was the coolest experience,and uh like very different.
And so we like went in and theyhave like all this like stuff
that's like all about protectionand like like different what
what attributes?
(34:21):
Yeah, and we were like lookingat I tried on a bunch of stuff.
Honestly, the stuff is very muchmy style.
And we go and I like tried onlike a couple things, and the
lady was super helpful.
What was so funny is so like wego to buy, I buy this, you know,
necklace, and then she puts itin this bag, and like the bag is
really nice.
I'm looking at it right now.
It's got this great illustrationon it, and it's in like another
(34:44):
like little box, and it's noteven like that big of an
expense.
I like it's like you know, ahundred bucks.
And and then she's like, Oh,would you like me to bless it
for you?
And I was like, absolutely.
So we take it and she puts it init.
What is that bowl called?
Singing bowl?
A singing bowl.
So we go and put it in a singingbowl, she puts it in there, and
(35:05):
she like you know, hits it withlike this like gong or whatever
it's called.
She hits it and it like youknow, makes this nice noise, and
she like said like a little, Idon't know, prayer over it or
something, and kind of makes mefeel kind of cool about it.
It's like more like yo, let'sgo.
Like it's so funny, but liketalk about like a cool
(35:26):
experience.
Uh isn't that worth like anextra?
Because like realistically,probably could have just walked
into JTK, the largest jewelryshow in the freaking northern
hemisphere, and but foundsomething very similar to it and
bought it for like half the halfthe price.
But I get this cool bag and sheblessed it.
She blessed it.
And she hit the singing bowl acouple times, so she did, you
(35:49):
know, and I just won this moneyplaying blackjack at dinner.
So perfect.
There we go.
Very cool.
10 out of 10 experience, veryVegas.
Okay.
Like I mentioned, I've had a lotof these recurring interviews
where I speak with people everyyear and I get a chance to hear
what's new.
But occasionally I interviewsomeone who I've wanted to speak
(36:09):
with for a long time, and I gota chance to do it for the first
time this year with uh BillBecker, who's RJO's new
president, at least new when Iinterviewed him a little earlier
this year.
And what was really interestingis that Bill gets to kind of
reveal what it's like to be aretail jeweler as well as
leading um one of the Juliaindustry's largest buying
(36:31):
groups.
Uh this conversation, again, didreally well online.
I think that people were uminterested to hear how RJO might
be changing.
RJO is very impactful, verylarge.
And I think people were notexactly hesitant, but they were
very keenly tuning in to findout if Bill was going to be
(36:51):
making big sweeping changes, ifhe was gonna keep things running
as usual.
And as a result, uh this episodeum was shared by a lot of people
to each other.
I think it's one of those onesthat I hope to go back to in a
year, listen to, and theninterview Bill as a follow-up
and hear if he's been able tokind of come through on some of
those um, you know, decisionsand policies that he was hoping
(37:12):
to put in place.
So without further ado, pleaseenjoy season six, Steering the
Ship.
Exclusive first interview withRJO's new president, Bill
Becker.
What's up, everybody?
Still speaking with Bill Becker,RJO president.
So, Bill, let's talk about yourgoals and vision for RJO.
Um, so you are uniquelypositioned to be able to
(37:34):
actually start um kind ofsteering and directing where RJO
is going to go.
And already it's been a pretty,you know, substantial amount of
growth.
I've been in the industry foreight years, and it feels like
in that time RJO has reallygrown.
Can you give me an idea on whatthe key issues and main focuses
are for RJO for like the next,you know, less than three years?
SPEAKER_02 (37:58):
Sure.
You know, I think the issuesright now is just uh trying to
get our uh systems in place forthe size of shows that we have,
trying to take care of all thehousekeeping things.
Because, you know, looking backin the past five years, even
before COVID, we've got thegolden egg.
We just have to figure out howto hold on to it.
(38:18):
Um so when it comes to that, Iyou know, I look at my role
here, and I'm really not tryingto change anything.
I'm just trying to keep thisskip pointed in the right
direction.
And I I got to keep steeringback to the board of directors
as as uh these guys are reallythe ones that put all the
decisions together and try anduh steer the ship in the
(38:41):
direction that it's going andoffer up uh some of the new
programs that we've got going onand so on and so forth.
But uh I would say, you know,I'm really not trying to change
things.
I'm just trying to keep thingsheaded in the same direction and
and bring on all the problemsthat that that come what may and
and deal with those as as theycome on board.
SPEAKER_07 (39:00):
So what about the post-COVID kind of aspect?
So you mentioned that thingshave changed in the past five
years or even more recently.
I saw COVID as an impact one-commerce and just luxury
buying online.
And because of the fact thattravel was suddenly shut down,
people had their luxury budgets,if you will, for a family and a
(39:21):
household uh suddenly got pouredright into tangible assets,
usually jewelry, uh, whichcreated this large boom,
incredible couple of years,record-breaking years for
jewelers, it's starting tosimmer off.
And I've seen some stores, youknow, have tougher years in just
you know the past one or two,especially with an uncertain
(39:42):
like economy.
Is this something that you arespeaking with jewelers about and
how to, I don't know, keep keepthings flowing well for an
average, average ish um inindependent retail store?
Is is that something that youguys are trying to solve as RJO?
Or is it about giving them thetools to solve it themselves?
SPEAKER_02 (40:03):
You know, I I think w none of us expected what to
happen during COVID thatactually happened.
And I think we all benefitedfrom that in in many ways.
We were all kind of surprised tothat fact.
And like you said, things aregetting back to normal, but I
think that's the sort of thingthat really brings RJO into
(40:23):
limelight.
Those people are, they need us,we need them more than we ever
did.
And it's now is is a good timeto go to an RJO show and go to
those educational seminars andlearning opportunities and
networking with other jewelersbecause we're all going through
the same thing.
We really haven't experiencedany significant downturn in in
(40:45):
our economy.
We've really had to watch ourinventory.
We've had to uh watch ourstaffing, but I think
everybody's going through that.
And that's the type of thingthat I think that going to an
RGO event will help youaccomplish.
It uh you are able to go tolearning opportunities and
seminars and educational thingsto learn about what people are
(41:09):
going through and and how tostaff better, how to control
your inventory better, what todo with that inventory that uh
you get left over with.
I mean, everybody's got agedinventory, but it's it's it's
what you do with it.
But that's kind of the thing Ithink that what is one of RGO's
strong points is that we're allin this together.
SPEAKER_07 (41:30):
Okay.
One of those things that I finduh always funny about having
worked in the jewelry industryfor kind of a long time at this
point, eight and a half years,soon to be nine next year, is
that I have like a little bit ofa bleed over of what my job is
and what my personal life is.
So I a lot of times I'm doingresearch or working with
(41:51):
clients, things related tosocial media, and as a result,
my social media, my personalsocial media, is increasingly
getting shown a lot of jewelry.
And what I think is so funny isthat uh I always joke that, you
know, Google and all these uh,you know, cookies all think I am
probably the most indecisivebachelor of all time.
And one of the things though,that was a happy, you know, I
(42:14):
guess, uh coincidence, is Iended up finding this brand that
I absolutely love.
And I thought that theirstorytelling was maybe the best
I found all year.
This is with Komoka Pearls.
Komoka Pearls are uh based outof Tahiti, so way out in the
ocean.
And I spoke with Josh Humbert,and he talks about a ton of
(42:36):
really interesting detailsrelated to pearl farming, and
they farm these uh black pearlstypically.
And I this is again one of thoseinterviews where I hope I didn't
come across as unprofessionalbecause all I could do was just
ask every question I had aboutpearls, and they were so
interesting.
I very a-linear just me asking.
But what was also really cool isI was interviewing him, and it
(42:59):
was like uh, you know, you couldhear roosters going in the
background, and a couple oftimes people were like, you
know, coming by and giving himnew pearls, and uh he had pearls
on the table, and he, you know,panned the camera down so I
could I could look at them.
Uh it was one of it's probablymy favorite interview I did all
this past year, just on a purelyinteresting level.
(43:20):
And uh I hope that people goback and and check this one out
because I don't even know if itgot all the respect it deserved
because I I think he was just awealth of information.
And what's also funny is umsometimes I try to um make
myself seem smarter than I maybeam.
And what's funny is with thisone, I asked him, um, oh yeah,
(43:41):
like how are like aren't pearlsformed by sand?
Because I remember that fromthis book, The Pearl.
It was so funny is he's like,no, that's actually not how
they're formed.
They're that's a misconception.
And I was like, oh, like let'snot let's not cover that one.
Like, let's cut that part out.
And he's like, no, no, no, no,you should keep that in because
it's it's important for peopleto know.
And I thought that that was oneof those like rare, unpolished
(44:03):
human interactions on a podcastthat I'm actually kind of uh
very fond of looking back onthat and how I learned something
along with the the listeners.
So enjoy season six, how afamily pearl farm went viral
featuring Komoko Pearls.
SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
So we're taking very specific cells that are shell
building, and we're taking themfrom a donor oyster that's
that's sacrificed, and we cutout the mantle and we we uh
process it into little squares,and then we insert those squares
into the body of a host oysteralong with a nucleus.
So then if all goes well, thatlittle piece of tissue will grow
(44:42):
over the nucleus and depositshell on it.
SPEAKER_07 (44:44):
And the nucleus is typically sand, correct?
SPEAKER_00 (44:47):
No, not correct.
Um sand is almost never at thecore of any pearl, like natural
or or otherwise.
SPEAKER_07 (44:55):
I guess I'm confused.
I thought that uh that's whatwas causing the the pearls to
grow.
SPEAKER_00 (45:00):
Right.
So that that's a that's a commonmisconception, and and I I blame
John Steinbeck from it for it.
Paul, cut that out.
Cut that out, Paul.
No, no, don't cut anything out.
It's all good because becausethat that's a common
misconception, and that's that'swhat people think.
And so it's good to be able toclear that up.
(45:20):
So, Paul, leave it in.
So basically, um oysters are aresupremely uh suited to stop that
from happening.
Like they're really, really goodat keeping sand out.
And I actually have a friend,uh, he's a Mexican pearl farmer
in the city of Cortez, and he heactually stuffed a bunch of sand
in in oysters thinking, ha haha, I'm gonna make a bunch of
(45:40):
pearls.
And uh none of the oystersproduce any pearls at all.
So it's not that easy.
Like they're they're really goodat at just getting rid of sand.
I mean, they they they liveamongst the sand, so that that's
not how natural pearls areformed.
Uh, natural pearls are formedusually from a parasite that
that drills through the shell,it pierces through the shell,
(46:02):
and then the mantle will form alike a cup and then entomb the
the intruder um in its own fleshto to suffocate it, and then it
and then it forms pearl aroundit.
So your your question is was nota bad question at all.
And in fact, it's it's a reallygood question, and and it's a
very common uh uhmisunderstanding.
Um it's not reallymisunderstanding, it's just it's
(46:24):
just bad information, and itjust comes from sort of uh,
yeah.
I mean, I I think I really thinkit comes all the way back.
Uh it goes all the way back toJohn Steinbeck um in uh the
Pearl where he talks about this,you know, this this giant pearl,
and and it all came from a froma grain of sand.
Uh we read that in high school.
Yeah, for sure we did.
It's poetic, you know, it's likeit's what you want to believe.
(46:46):
It's like, oh, you know, liketransforming the difficulty into
something beautiful, like justlike humans.
Like, oh, isn't that nice?
Sure, it's nice, but it doesn'treally happen that way.
All right, everybody.
SPEAKER_07 (46:56):
So that's all the 10 episodes I wanted to earmark and
maybe shout out.
And I really wanted to maybejust in summary talk about
season six.
I learned so much during this.
There was a nice little stretchin there when I felt like, man,
we were firing on all cylinders.
It was so cool.
There's uh about four or five ofthose interviews that I
(47:17):
highlighted came from a stretchduring June through like July
that really I felt like, man, II had some awesome guests on and
some really interestinginterviews and did some cool
things.
And this time I'm I really feellike we really get maybe not
just better, but we change alittle bit.
And this podcast, like Imentioned in in one of the
(47:39):
intros, is that it sometimes canfeel very insulated.
Like I work fully remote fromupstate New York, and I
sometimes feel like I'm viewingthe jewelry world through like a
window, and it kind of feelslike if I talk, it like you
know, is anyone listening on theother side?
And the fact that you'relistening is very cool.
(47:59):
But uh, we took this podcast,and I feel like from five to the
end of season six, what did welearn?
Man, we I think I interviewedsome really interesting new
people to the industry withStone Algo and uh Komoka Pearls
and just a few of the otherones, and um, I had some on some
really interesting exclusiveinterviews with um, you know,
(48:22):
just different presidents andeven just speaking with uh a
bunch of different vendors.
That's something I'm hopefullygonna do a bunch more of in
season seven as I do more withthe premium vendor program at
Punchmark, is hopefully I'll beable to speak with even more
vendors.
But at the same time, I say thisa million times.
This is my favorite part of myjob.
I love this part.
It doesn't even feel like work alot of the times.
(48:44):
It feels like I just get to sitdown and like interview someone
and talk to them and hear theirstories and hear what they're
excited about.
And what's even cooler is I seethese people that are
professionals, I can see thatthey take this also very
seriously.
Um, the jewelry industry, what Ialways find very endearing is
that this stuff is important tothese people.
(49:04):
What are we doing?
We're selling expensive piecesof metal and these rare objects,
setin them, and we're um, youknow, charging money for it.
But there is something moreabout jewelry that I think pulls
at the heartstrings and like theI don't know, the kind of the
psyche and like the feeling ofwhat it's like to be a human.
And I think that that's part ofwhat I hope to convey is when
(49:27):
you speak with these people,whether they're talking about
gold or pearls or about diamondsor about um, you know, their
family business, man, it feelslike they they really care.
There's not a lot of peoplehere, even though it is a luxury
um industry, there's not a lotof people here who are just here
for like, you know, the money.
Um, a lot of these people, man,they care and they're continuing
(49:49):
a story that maybe wasn't evenstarted by them.
It's a family business that'sbeen around for 70, 80, 100,
several hundred years.
And I think what's so cool is uhthose people, when they get on
this podcast and they speak withme, they tell me about how
excited they are to share thatstory with our listeners.
And that's you.
And so you're part of theequation, and I can't thank you
(50:11):
enough for listening.
You get to be my favorite partof my job.
I think it's a really coolthing.
I also want to say a veryspecial thank you to my boss,
Ross Cochran, and uh Dan andBrian for letting me continue to
do this.
It's uh, you know, it's not likeit's for free.
You know, it takes my time andthey have to pay me a salary.
So the fact that I get to uh dothis and sit down with these
(50:32):
people is it just feels like areal treat sometimes.
Um I also want to say a veryspecial thank you to my editor,
Paul Suarez.
Thank you, Paul.
Um I really enjoy getting towork with him and he's the
utmost professional.
He really kind of has this thingdialed in to my partner in
crime, even though we don't talkuh face to face hardly ever, but
it's been uh a really cool ride.
(50:53):
So just want to say we're notstopping.
We're gonna keep on going.
Season seven already started.
We got off to a reallyinteresting start with some
really interesting uminterviews, I think.
Uh some people that are gonna bereturning, and also a couple
people um from uh that arevendors that I think maybe
haven't been spoken to before.
(51:14):
Um so be on the lookout forthat.
We're gonna be returning onJanuary 6th, hopefully, and
we'll have our first episode,our little intro episode, kind
of set the scene, and then we'regonna be off to the races and
we're back.
If this is something you enjoy,maybe consider sharing in the
loop with your friends, whetherthat's your friends in your
jewelry store or your friends inthe jewelry industry.
(51:36):
I think that the more people whoare in the know about everything
that's going on, the better andhealthier our industry is.
I think that traditionally,jewelers are maybe a little bit
slow when we update thetechnology.
And this is kind of our way withhow we started with to get
people prepared for changes.
And I think increasingly when inthe loop gets brought up, I
(51:58):
think that people kind ofunderstand what our goal is.
And I think that that's a funthing, whether that's through
PunchMark or just through ourpodcast.
All right, I think maybe I'llleave it right there.
Thank you so much for listening.
And uh my name is Michael Murpo.
I'm a director of userexperience at PunchMark, and I
host the podcast in the loopevery week.
Thank you so much.
(52:19):
We'll be back next year.
Thanks so much.
See you then.
Bye.
Welcome to In the Loop.
What is up, everybody?
My name is Michael Burpo.
Thanks again for listening to Inthe Loop.
And this week it's our finalepisode.
This is our wrap-up.
And what I do every year, I'vebeen doing this for I think four
or five seasons of this, is I uhrecap my 10 favorite episodes.
(00:24):
Not always the best performingones, but some that I think
either allowed me to talk abouta topic that I think is very
interesting, or a guest thatturned out to be uh really
influential or had a profoundimpact on me, or even some uh
new types of episodes.
I've been doing interviews forthe entire time Inalupa's been
(00:45):
out, but what I'm starting toget more into is the solo
episodes and they're a quick wayif you know an interview backs
out or I'm struggling with anepisode.
I have a couple of topics that Ithink are really fascinating,
and I would love to kind ofexplore them in a deeper
long-form way.
And everyone's been very niceand been able to listen to those
episodes, so it's kind ofencouraged me to do more.
(01:06):
So without further ado, here aremy favorite moments from 10
episodes from season six of Inthe Loop.
Enjoy.
SPEAKER_03 (01:27):
Our mission reaches way beyond technology.
With decades of experience andlong-lasting industry
relationships, Punchmark enablesjewelry businesses to flourish
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(01:49):
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(02:14):
And now back to the show.
SPEAKER_07 (02:21):
Okay, everybody.
So here are 10 of these episodesI think are very interesting.
Um again, some of these episodesactually were a little bit slept
on, and this is kind of my wayof being like, hey, this episode
it's was really interesting.
I think you should give it ashot.
And also some of these are fromthe most popular episodes.
I always make sure um we get aSpotify wrapped from uh Spotify
(02:44):
as a producer.
So because we publish onSpotify, they actually show us
what our best episodes are.
And one thing that they show usis uh what our most um
downloaded episode was.
And for this past year, it wasepisode 28 of season six, an
AI-powered ring designer thatactually works featuring Stone
(03:06):
Algo.
And I think these guys areamazing, and I thought they were
so fascinating that I actuallyuh am having a follow-up episode
in early of season seven, so beon the lookout for that.
So enjoy transparency.
So transparency is one of thosethings that some people don't
actually want transparencybecause inside of the
(03:27):
transparency is where you canactually have a lot of wiggle
room and markup.
And I do think that for a longtime, jewelry did it as a
luxury.
I think backing up even further,I think luxury as an entire
industry enjoyed uh a lack oftransparency for kind of a
substantial amount of time, youknow, all the way, you know,
(03:47):
through the 1900s before, youknow, these very complicated um
methods for you know uhaccountability and things like
that were actually discoveredand implemented.
One thing I think about all thetime is, for example, cars,
buying a car.
It's one of the last uh vestigesof bartering.
(04:07):
Um it doesn't seem like itexists anywhere else.
And as a result, personally, Ihate that.
I want to walk in, I want you totell me what the price of the
car is.
And I want to be like, is thatthe lowest?
And then to be like, that iswhat the price of the car is.
And for me to buy it and thenwalk out.
There should be no difference mebuying, you know, some bananas
versus buying a uh, you know, atruck.
(04:28):
And I think that diamonds umwere kind of in that realm where
there was like the bartering, ifyou knew a guy, if you, you
know, had this kind ofrelationship, that they would
give you this deal.
And even still, there is still alot of deal and like kind of
like, you know, working throughbecause Julie does experience
this uh a lot of time, Keystonemarkup at every level.
(04:50):
Do you think that that's kind ofwhere the core of um pushback
was coming from?
Is people people felt like youwere eroding their markups and
their ability to actually run abusiness that the way that they
have been for the last, youknow, hundred plus years?
Or was it something more alongthe lines of like you were
divulging trade secrets kind ofthing?
SPEAKER_05 (05:12):
I think you kind of hit the nail on the head.
So we have a fair priceestimate, which is like a
Zillow's estimate for diamonds.
And it doesn't take in allinformation, to be clear.
Like it's not perfect.
Uh a Zillow's estimate's notperfect either.
I think everybody knows that,right?
Like it's taking in whateverinformation it can get, but it
doesn't know necessarily thatthe countertops in the kitchen
(05:32):
are Carrera marble and it's notgoing to price that in uh versus
like, you know, some uhlook-alike countertop that's not
as expensive.
And so like everyone in everyonelistening to this podcast
probably knows that uh twodiamonds that are graded the
same by the GIA could be pricedcompletely different and it's
rational because they're verydifferent items.
(05:54):
Where it gets irrational iswhere two items that are very,
very similar or identical arelisted at totally different
prices because one guy is youknow baking in more markup than
the other.
And then it's like, like you'repointing out, um, you're if
you're gonna, if you're gonnagive transparent information to
the consumer, you're going to beeroding the ability for somebody
(06:16):
to add extra markup.
Uh ultimately you're going toconverge to like what is the
fair markup.
And I think what this industryis missing on the diamond side
is MSRP.
And I don't think it's an easything to solve.
Um, with diamonds specifically,it's, you know, on the dealer
side, it's I think a little morestraightforward because you have
professional versusprofessional.
(06:37):
And even then you'll look onRapNet and you'll see like
there's discrepancy in inventorypricing, and you'll be like, you
know, it's a bad make, or youknow, it's just it's grainy,
it's it's not it's not uh goodmaterial, like whatever,
whatever it is.
Um and and there's a reason whythe pricing is different.
At the consumer level, you haveall those discrepancies plus
(06:58):
markup differences.
And the markup differences canbe really significant across
retailers.
Um and so yeah, I think that abig issue is that there's not
some sort of a concept of MSRP.
We actually are very directlytackling this um within our new
product and uh not on thediamond side, although that is
(07:18):
something we've we've talkedabout solutions for, and I think
we can get closer to that overtime, but it is complicated.
But I do think, like, when youlook at like, for example,
there's an MSRP.
Like you have to sell at acertain price, you can't sell a
new online.
Like, there's all thesedecisions that have been made
about how you create a uhpremium experience for the
(07:42):
consumer and you protect thebrand, right?
And I think the jewelryindustry, some jewelers are very
cutthroat, some jewelers aretrying to bake in as big a
margin as they can, and most aresomewhere in between.
Um, and there does need to be afair amount of markup because
there is a fair amount ofoverhead and labor and um all
(08:02):
sorts, and and returns are ahuge issue now, especially with
you know, lab and natural.
People are ordering multiplediamonds at a time sometimes,
and like creates a lot ofadditional overhead cost for
everybody.
SPEAKER_07 (08:15):
Okay.
Another episode I thought wasreally fascinating was this
episode with Jewelcraft.
Full disclosure, I think thatSteph is awesome from
Jewelcraft.
She's one of the people who Ihang out with at the um at the
shows quite often.
But what I also found reallyfascinating is that she also
seems to be at like kind of thiscenter point between vendors and
retailers, and she has garnereda lot of trust from the
(08:37):
industry.
And I think a lot of that'sbecause Jewelcraft not only does
really good work, has reallygood turnarounds, but they also
are pretty transparent.
Um, I affectionately refer tothem as the man behind the
curtain, kind of like in umWizard of Oz.
And I thought that uh thisinterview kind of revealed them
to be uh sort of this reallyimpactful, silent force that's
(08:58):
in the industry and really doesa great job of keeping things on
track, uh, especially for someof these smaller jewelers uh who
can kind of maybe punch abovetheir weight class a little bit
more with these custom featuresor repairs if they don't have
the the tools or expertisein-house.
So this is from season six,episode three, The Jewelers Ace
Up Their Sleeve, featuringJewelcraft.
(09:19):
I'm joined by StephanieWesthorpe from Jewelcraft.
How are you doing today,Stephanie?
SPEAKER_09 (09:24):
Hey, I'm good, Mike.
How are you?
SPEAKER_07 (09:26):
Doing all right.
I was trying to explain to my uhmy parents who I was
interviewing, and I was like, ohyeah, jewelcraft are kind of
like uh the man behind thecurtain for a lot of jewelry
stores.
Is that kind of a is that a fairassessment, you know, the kind
of the people who are gettingsome of these jobs done uh
behind the scenes?
Is that sort of like a fair kindof summation?
SPEAKER_09 (09:45):
Definitely.
We we are the jeweler's jeweler.
A lot of people don't know thatwe're here, um, but that's
exactly what we do.
We're here to have the retailersback and make sure that they've
got everything that they needfor all of their repairs or any
custom.
SPEAKER_07 (10:01):
Nice.
Yeah, because I guess that myparents have always uh I'm sort
of explaining things throughoutthe years to them.
Like, hey, did you know that notevery jewelry store does uh the
custom jewelry in in-housesometimes?
They're like outsourcing it,they work with professionals
that do it for them, or samething with repair jobs.
And they're like, No, I thoughtthat they would do it in-house.
And it's like some do, but alsosome people just don't have the
(10:24):
staff or the technology or thematerials or just even like they
don't care to.
Okay.
One of the topics that I havetried to get into a little bit
more is this series, recurringseries called Breaking Down the
Best.
And this is my way of kind oftalking about these um either
user experiences or tool sets orwebsites that I think are really
(10:49):
outstanding.
And they're ones that I use alot of.
So I in the past I've donewebsite experiences that I think
are fascinating, and I've doneum, you know, different uh
buying experiences online orin-store that I found really
cool.
And one of these um that Iactually did early in the year,
uh back in uh on February 4th,was breaking down the best,
(11:10):
talking about Google Suite.
So Google Suite is drive, docs,sheets, forms, and slides.
And I talk about why I like themso much.
Uh I use probably two or threeof these tools every single day.
And it's pretty okay to say thatthis suite runs punchmark as
much as any other tool.
(11:31):
Um, we're all using it.
We all use Google Sheets to uhdocument things and kind of have
the sheets uh staying live, ifyou will.
And then Google Docs, I mean,anytime I write copy, I have to
go with Google Docs.
So enjoy from season six,episode five.
This is breaking down the bestof Google Suite.
(11:51):
So, like I mentioned in theintro, this is going to be about
the G Suite.
That's what I'm referring to itas.
That is Google's uh suite ofproducts, and they all work
really well together.
What I'm primarily referring tois Gmail.
It is the industry standard andvery, very much understood to be
the industry standard.
(12:12):
It's free.
And all of these tools are free.
You pretty much access it with aGmail.
Uh Google Drive, which is sortof like a Dropbox, but it
connects and contains all of thefiles for the other ones.
Google Docs, which is sort oflike uh Microsoft Word, except
it's cloud-based.
(12:33):
Google Sheets, which is justlike Excel.
This is the only one which Iwill accept uh people using um
Microsoft Excel for certaininstances if you're like really
deep into making pivot tablesand data and stuff like that.
Google Forms, which is theindustry standard.
I honestly recommend usingGoogle Forms over any other
(12:54):
form, unless you have a CMS likeHubSpot.
Um, then maybe it makes sense topipe it into your CMS, but I
would recommend uh Google Formsfor any other reason.
And Google Slides, which is justlike a uh a slideshow, um, you
know, Microsoft PowerPoint,essentially.
So let's talk about Drive,Google Drive.
(13:16):
So Google Drive is one of thosethings I actually got into when
I was in college.
We organize all of our workthrough Google Drive.
And the reason why I recommendGoogle Drive is that again, it's
cloud-based, which means thateverything can be edited all at
once with all of the differentedits being synced.
(13:37):
So you can actually havemultiple people in the Google
Drive or on the same documents,and they'll be syncing in real
time.
And what that is really greatabout is uh, for example, if
you're using um uh Dropbox andyou have all these um Microsoft
documents, the people can beediting and then someone might
(13:58):
have another version and thenthey merge, and then one gets
overwritten, and suddenly allthat work was lost, which
happens a lot.
I highly recommend if you'redoing something collaborative,
you consider working with uh aGoogle Drive.
It's super easy to figure out.
It kind of the utility of itdoesn't reveal itself until you
(14:22):
start working with two otherpeople, and then suddenly it's
like, wow, this is reallyuseful.
Okay, another one is now thatwe've been doing uh this podcast
for a pretty substantial amountof time, or well over 250
episodes.
One of the things that's beenreally cool is I've been able to
follow these very impressive uhfigures through their careers
(14:43):
and have these recurringinterviews.
And uh people are so generous,they are willing to join me and
talk about um you know what'sgoing on in their life and has
their increasingly um you knowguiding the future of these
either organizations or powerplayers.
And one of those people isSteven Barnes.
Uh Stephen Barnes recently wasannounced, or I guess recently
(15:04):
at the time of the episode, asthe uh new owner of IJO.
IJO, one of the major buyinggroups in the jewelry industry,
they have a lot of sway and alot of impact, one of the places
that we go uh twice a year.
And uh he um was longtimepresident, or I guess president
for a couple years, and then hewas able to buy IJO and become
(15:26):
not just the president but theowner.
Uh, this is big news in thejewelry industry.
This really had an impact andsent a lot of waves, and uh,
this episode really did superwell.
And I think it's because peoplehave this appetite sometimes to
hear a longer form of theseconversations.
I mean, that's why podcasts kindof grew, and I think it allowed
(15:48):
Stephen Barnes to kind ofexplain his future and what it
meant now to have the reinsfully in his hands.
So without further ado, this isseason six, episode 10, from
president to owner, an interviewwith Steven Barnes of IJO.
I am interviewing Steven Barnes,the president and now owner of
IJO.
(16:08):
How are you doing today, Steven?
SPEAKER_01 (16:10):
Man, I am fantastic, Mike.
I am on top of the world.
Life is grand.
SPEAKER_07 (16:14):
Very cool.
This is uh now the third part inour kind of recurring uh series.
And I'm just you knowinterviewing you anytime there's
a change in your title, it seemslike.
Uh, very exciting news.
It was just announced at uh IJOPalm Springs that you are now
the uh sole owner of one of thelargest, if not the largest, uh
(16:35):
jewelry organizations, you know,in North America.
Can you explain to me what beinguh owner and the new sole owner
means to you?
SPEAKER_01 (16:45):
Sure, absolutely.
Well, if it's a dream come trueuh in many um aspects, Michael.
Um, you know, I've been a memberof IJO for over 25 years, or our
family's uh jewelry store hasbeen a member of IJO over 25
years.
I just remember coming to myvery first show and just how
impressed I was and just blownaway with the organization as a
whole.
And so I became very, veryinvolved, very passionate about
(17:09):
the organization.
And and truly a dream of mineone day was to just work for
IJO.
And then as things progressedalong, it's like, man, that re
that became a reality.
And then on top of that, like Inever thought I'd have the
opportunity of being an owner ofIJO one day, but uh, but it it
became a reality.
And uh so yeah, definitely havebeen the dream.
Um, very passionate about um myrole um in this company um and
(17:33):
how we can make everybody aroundus better.
SPEAKER_07 (17:36):
It's really a cool, cool thing to watch.
So you were announced uh it'sjust about been two years or one
and a half years, I guess, uh,since you assumed the the
president role.
And that was uh a prettyexciting move because you had
been a longtime member, like youhad mentioned.
We had our follow-up interviewactually to the day, uh last
year on August 1st, I believe.
(17:57):
And from there, you kind ofprovide a little bit of a
checkup talking about your goalsfor unity inside of IJO, which
was uh really cool to hear, andhow that's something that only
someone who's a real membercould kind of target as a focal
point.
Now, as owner of IJO, I wantedto ask: are you still president?
(18:19):
Is there a delineation betweenthose roles?
Or was president sort of thetitle before you could become
the owner?
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
Yeah, so I think it was definitely a stepping stone
into ownership.
Um, coming from a retailbackground um and a consulting
background, I had to reallylearn um about the
organizational from a corporateuh standpoint versus just, you
know, I mean, I understandbusiness, I understand um all
those things, but it justunderstanding the IJO way and
(18:48):
how IJO runs things.
So I think it was definitely astepping stone towards getting
to where I am today.
Um, as far as what changes,nothing really changes in my
role.
I'm still gonna, you know,assume the role of president.
I'm still going to um be theleader of this company.
Um, I feel like I've got 20 moregood years in me to make this
happen.
And so I'm looking long term onthis.
(19:10):
I'm I'm setting up 20-year plansright now and goals for you know
the next 20 years of how I canuh bring everybody along with
me.
So yeah, it definitely isnothing really changes for me in
this ownership role.
Um, still gonna be thevisionary, still gonna provide
the leadership that thisorganization needs.
I love that.
SPEAKER_07 (19:28):
All right.
One of the, I mean, mostimportant topics in the jewelry
industry for all of 2025 hasabsolutely been the price of
gold.
I brought it up uh a milliontimes in a million different
episodes, but I actually want todo a very specific episode uh
for why the price of gold waspushing even higher than it
(19:50):
normally was.
And uh it's still all time highspretty much right now.
Um I've even looked into tryingto buy some gold as like a means
of investment.
And I sat down, I really Reachedout to some people and it was
like, who should I talk tothat's an expert on this?
And a lot of people pointed meto uh this guy, David Sminsky.
And he is so interesting.
(20:11):
He was very articulate about theoutside factors that impact the
price of gold and why it's notjust an arbitrary thing.
And by sitting down with him, hestarted to explain to me what uh
is causing this, and also hemade some predictions.
I thought that was very bold ofhim.
Uh, I definitely want to speakwith him again in season seven.
Um, I saw him at JCK, and he wasso nice.
(20:33):
Uh, very cool episode.
So, this is from season six,episode 13 Why is the price of
gold so darn high?
Featuring David Sabinsky.
SPEAKER_06 (20:43):
This is one of some of the factors if that basically
uh effectable the value of theUS dollar, the U.S.
interest rates, the economicconditions in a country.
Now what happens is aka likeChina, but now you can actually
throw in their tariffs.
Throw in tariffs, strikes andother pipeline issues when it
comes to actually getting it outof the ground and getting it to
(21:04):
market.
The geopolitical factors, youknow, we we're living at right
now, and every country we'reliving at right now.
The supply from producers andthe demand for jewelry, the
actual demand from the consumer,okay?
Inflationary trends, the goldreserves.
Like I know they were gonna gotry and go into Fort Knox and
see if the gold was there.
I haven't heard a report if thegold's there yet or not.
SPEAKER_07 (21:26):
I haven't heard it either.
My my boss actually asked me toask about what if they go in and
it's not and it's all gone.
SPEAKER_06 (21:33):
What if they go and it's not there?
The investment demand,speculation in the market for
the traders that arespeculating, and a safe hazen, a
safe haven, you know, you know,where people's stocks are too
volatile so they run to gold.
Those are like the 10 factorsthat actually affect the price
of gold.
And it's like I always tellpeople it's even like uh from
(21:54):
that standpoint, even if you fixfive of them, they're still or
feel with five of them, five ofthem are still out there running
wild.
So what happens is, and after Iused to say this, I used to say,
and there's one thing thatalways happens if somebody fires
a missile, all bets are off.
So if someone fires a missile,how does that change the gold
(22:14):
market?
And then believe it or not,after I said it after one of my
seminars, a missile was firedfrom one country to another,
gold went up that day,$50 okay,right away, and by the next day
it returned.
You know, so it's like what'sactually moving it so it's that
valuable at this point, youknow.
Like I said, every one of theevery one of these little things
(22:35):
I just listened are part of thethe part of the the influence,
but what what is really the maindriver, I think, was really what
your question was.
What was the really the maindriver?
And I think it's all thedrivers, Michael.
I think it's all fascinating.
No matter where you're comingfrom.
SPEAKER_07 (22:53):
Okay.
One of the things that'simportant about running a
jewelry podcast is I have tomake sure I get my news um from
a reputable and reliable source.
Um, there's a lot of news outthere that I think is
interesting, but it might notalso be impactful for the
jewelry industry.
And when I say the jewelryindustry, I mean specifically
(23:15):
the retailers, vendors, andmaybe tech providers and the
people that are like kind ofpushing things forward.
Uh, you know, my family might beinterested in, is maybe
different than what ourlisteners are going to be
interested in.
But the group that I get a lotof my news from, even some of my
topic ideas for future episodes,is National Jeweler.
(23:37):
Um I'm subscribed to their emailblast, and they, you know, I
read it every single time theycome in.
I read the headlines typicallyand I try to read at least one
uh of them.
And I think uh the episode I didwith Michelle Graff, who is the
editor-in-chief at NationalJeweler, was super fascinating.
And I think that she, again, isone of those people that has
(23:58):
seen the industry through a lotof change and will be with us uh
through even more change.
And having someone that kind ofis comfortable and understands
uh where we've been and wherewe're going uh is it just makes
for an excellent interview andan excellent topic uh to speak
with.
So uh enjoy this episode.
This is season six, episode 17,what the heck is happening in
(24:20):
the jewelry world featuringMichelle Graf, editor-in-chief
at National Jeweler.
On the topic of you know, smashand grabs and and and robberies,
um, it's a topic that I have,you know, we're 250 episodes
into this.
I've always wanted to do anepisode specifically about uh
security and and and androbberies and and things like
(24:43):
that because it is inherently apart of the industry.
It's not something that peoplelove to to discuss that much,
and that's one of the reasonswhy I don't know how to go about
it.
Should I be speaking withsomeone who was just robbed or
had a case that was that wascovered or um has been resolved?
You guys have always um coveredthese with a lot of touch, I
(25:07):
might say, or grace or whateverthat word is, because we don't
want to sensationalize it,though news can be sensational,
you know, can be um, I mean, itthere's tons of movies about
about robberies and and aboutand it's usually from the the
thief's point of view.
Uh how do you balance that kindof that that topic where it's
(25:31):
it's educating the public, it'sin you know, conveying the the
information, but it's not thatsensationalism which like might
be giving kind of almostencouragement to the act.
SPEAKER_08 (25:43):
Right.
Um, so why am I telling peoplethis?
This was also covered on theirlocal news, it was in their
local newspaper.
People posted about it on nextdoor or on Facebook or whatever.
But we want to point out like,hey, in this situation, this is
what happened.
These are things that could havebeen done differently to prevent
the crime or mitigate thelosses.
(26:04):
And that's what we always try tokeep in mind.
Um, and if you want to talk tosomeone about security, call the
jurors the security alliance.
Um, John Kennedy is he justretired.
He was great, he ran it foryears.
Jennifer is doing a great job,and they absolutely will help
you.
And anytime they put out abulletin, an alert, you know,
(26:24):
there was a, you know, a massivesafe robbery at XYZ, they always
include a list of tips.
You know, don't put your safehere.
You know, X one, two, they justinclude a list of five, six tips
about like, you know, here'swhat this situation happened, or
and this is how like this is howthings could have been handled
differently.
And it's not a way to criticizethe store where it happened,
(26:47):
it's just to say if you'refaced, you know, here are things
to think about in your store.
And, you know, it's also good.
Another reason we cover it is ifthere are people who are, if you
will, repeat offenders and wehave good pictures of them, you
could say these three peoplehave now, you know, committed
smash and grabs or grab and runsor distraction thefts that, you
(27:08):
know, stores in these states.
So if you're kind of in thisradius, be on the lookout for
these individuals.
SPEAKER_07 (27:14):
Yeah.
No, that's uh, I think that thatmight be the angle is not again,
not celebrating it.
It's more if you can come at itfrom an educational standpoint.
I do think that there isinherent value in that because
it's like, hey, learn from this,you know, tragic incident and
and being able to like come outthe better from it.
(27:35):
But I do think that, yeah, theway that you guys handle it is
something.
Um, I hate to say this, I I amvery interested in it.
It is something that I I readthe articles because I do find
that fascinating.
SPEAKER_08 (27:45):
But I mean, honestly, almost everybody does.
Just look in general, like whata big genre true crime is.
And you know, I can tell youfrom our standpoint, those
articles are some of the mostread on the site.
But you know, it's for jewelers,it's universal.
They all have valuable thingsthat people want, they all have
valuable things that are smalland portable and easily moved
(28:07):
along.
And they all have to think aboutthis.
SPEAKER_07 (28:10):
Okay, it's all well and good to be interviewing all
these very impressive peoplethat I meet online, you know,
Dave Siminski and Michelle Graf.
Uh, they're very interesting.
But it's also really cool tomeet these impressive people
that I also just get along withreally well in person.
And one of the people who um Ijust became friends with at uh
(28:31):
actually the Punchmark ClientWorkshop was this guy, Kyle
Pantis from Gems by Pantis.
And he specializes in these uhincredible pieces of jewelry,
especially fancy coloreddiamonds, is what his specialty
is.
And it was so cool getting tospeak with him because uh I just
felt very comfortable.
And I think you can really hearin the uh podcast recording,
(28:54):
because sometimes when I speakwith people, uh they are just
it's more of like a businessconversation.
But with Kyle, I got the chanceto be like, hey, I'm really
interested in what you do.
Can you just explain it to me?
And what was very fascinating isum he took it from you know a
very high-level perspective andthen got into a couple of the
nitty-gritties, which I think ismakes for a very interesting
(29:16):
episode.
A little bit more atypical, notexactly uh a linear
conversation, but he was uh agreat guest.
And this is from season six, TheKing's Diamond Dealer, featuring
Gems by Pantis.
So how often are you buying, areyou typically buying these fancy
stones um in singles?
Or do you you is there anopportunity to buy in lots?
(29:39):
And lots, I at least for me,what I think lots mean is like
parcels.
That's I think actually the moreof the term.
So do you is that like kind ofan angle?
Does that increase the value, oris that actually it seems like
when you're selling a parcel, alot of times the price is
actually coming down becausethey're in in groups.
It doesn't seem like it actuallybehooves you to do that.
SPEAKER_04 (30:00):
Yeah, so so if I buy in parcels, you're gonna get
you're gonna get a discount onthe price per carrot, which
allows you to average cost,right?
You're always gonna have excessmaterial out of that parcel,
even if it's polished goods thatare gonna be your dogs and your
winners, right?
So then you're able to take yourwinners, maximize your profit,
and then you do what you canwith the dogs, right?
(30:20):
So there's that angle.
We do buy stuff like that, um,depending on what it is.
And then in the in the higherend stuff, like a lot of times
I'm getting leads from stores,clients that own stuff for 20
years, 10 years, 15 years,whatever, that want to sell.
Um, I just actually boughtsomething last week off of an
auction house, which was kind ofcool.
(30:41):
There was an opportunity to buysomething off auction.
So I paid even the auction theiryou know, buyer fee or whatever
it was, you know, it's stillokay.
It's still a retail type ofdeal, but you know, there's
value there.
I saw opportunity and I, youknow, I hit the strike, the
strike, as they say.
Um, so things come from all overthe place for us.
SPEAKER_07 (31:00):
Yeah, mainly because I was thinking about, for
example, there's this one watchcompany, which I won't even
mention, uh, that does a uh arainbow watch and uh you know it
has uh rainbows right around thebezel, and it's I mean, it's
just incredible.
Yeah, I tell you.
Uh and what I always think aboutanytime I see it is man, that
(31:22):
must be so hard to get uh aparcel that is the full spectrum
because undoubtedly you're gonnahave like you know 90% of it.
And then it's like, okay, I needa stone that sets in between
this color red and this colororange because that's the way
the spectrum works.
SPEAKER_04 (31:39):
Well, and and and in their case, in the gemstone
world in particular, it's alittle easier to cut the
material.
So it's it's it's a littleeasier to maintain to mass
produce that a little bit morein volume than it would be in
the color diamond world.
SPEAKER_07 (31:53):
Oh, interesting.
I didn't even notice, I didn'tknow that that would be uh
there'd be you know a level, adegree of difficulty compared to
it.
SPEAKER_04 (32:00):
I mean, there's I mean, um, it's not easy, like it
still takes time to color matchthese rainbow color gems.
Like it's definitely a thing,but like if you have a supply
chain for it, like it's thematerial the material is there.
SPEAKER_07 (32:13):
So, like I said, one of the things I'm experimenting
with uh on in the loop as I'vegone through a lot of episodes
is I want to go out and kind ofvlog these events.
Um, anytime I I work from home,it kind of feels a little bit
insulated.
And sometimes it kind of feelslike I'm uh locked in my room
(32:33):
and I'm just exploring the worldthrough a window.
But when I get a chance to goout and experience something, I
want to bring the podcast withme because I think that people
find it also really interesting,especially because um I think
that these vlogs have been veryimportant to me um in you know
different parts of my life uhgrowing up.
I used to follow vloggers a loton YouTube back when I was very
(32:56):
popular.
And it kind of lets me feel likethat as well.
But for uh you know, an industrythat doesn't have a lot of
vloggers, I don't really know ifthere's anyone else that's kind
of making these audio vlogrelated uh pieces.
If there is, maybe send them tome because I'd I'd be happy to
give it a look.
But I ended up going to uh JCKLas Vegas for the first time
(33:16):
since 2021, and uh it haschanged a fair amount.
2021 was a weird year, and uhthis time I got a chance to
really explore Las Vegas, walkaround the show.
Um, I spent a lot of time withHope, our digital marketing
manager, as we kind of walkedaround the different parts of
the JCK show, and uh it was justa really cool time.
(33:38):
So please enjoy the snippet fromseason six, episode 26.
I went to the biggest jewelryshow in the world.
All right, so I just bought somejewelry at K and Out, Karma and
Luck.
It's in are we in the Venetianright now?
Summer call.
It's kind of late on uh Sunday,and we couldn't get into the
(34:00):
Snoop Dogg concert.
The line was too long.
And we just went and bought apiece of jewelry, and honestly,
that was the coolest experience,and uh like very different.
And so we like went in and theyhave like all this like stuff
that's like all about protectionand like like different what
what attributes?
(34:21):
Yeah, and we were like lookingat I tried on a bunch of stuff.
Honestly, the stuff is very muchmy style.
And we go and I like tried onlike a couple things, and the
lady was super helpful.
What was so funny is so like wego to buy, I buy this, you know,
necklace, and then she puts itin this bag, and like the bag is
really nice.
I'm looking at it right now.
It's got this great illustrationon it, and it's in like another
(34:44):
like little box, and it's noteven like that big of an
expense.
I like it's like you know, ahundred bucks.
And and then she's like, Oh,would you like me to bless it
for you?
And I was like, absolutely.
So we take it and she puts it init.
What is that bowl called?
Singing bowl?
A singing bowl.
So we go and put it in a singingbowl, she puts it in there, and
(35:05):
she like you know, hits it withlike this like gong or whatever
it's called.
She hits it and it like youknow, makes this nice noise, and
she like said like a little, Idon't know, prayer over it or
something, and kind of makes mefeel kind of cool about it.
It's like more like yo, let'sgo.
Like it's so funny, but liketalk about like a cool
(35:26):
experience.
Uh isn't that worth like anextra?
Because like realistically,probably could have just walked
into JTK, the largest jewelryshow in the freaking northern
hemisphere, and but foundsomething very similar to it and
bought it for like half the halfthe price.
But I get this cool bag and sheblessed it.
She blessed it.
And she hit the singing bowl acouple times, so she did, you
(35:49):
know, and I just won this moneyplaying blackjack at dinner.
So perfect.
There we go.
Very cool.
10 out of 10 experience, veryVegas.
Okay.
Like I mentioned, I've had a lotof these recurring interviews
where I speak with people everyyear and I get a chance to hear
what's new.
But occasionally I interviewsomeone who I've wanted to speak
(36:09):
with for a long time, and I gota chance to do it for the first
time this year with uh BillBecker, who's RJO's new
president, at least new when Iinterviewed him a little earlier
this year.
And what was really interestingis that Bill gets to kind of
reveal what it's like to be aretail jeweler as well as
leading um one of the Juliaindustry's largest buying
(36:31):
groups.
Uh this conversation, again, didreally well online.
I think that people were uminterested to hear how RJO might
be changing.
RJO is very impactful, verylarge.
And I think people were notexactly hesitant, but they were
very keenly tuning in to findout if Bill was going to be
(36:51):
making big sweeping changes, ifhe was gonna keep things running
as usual.
And as a result, uh this episodeum was shared by a lot of people
to each other.
I think it's one of those onesthat I hope to go back to in a
year, listen to, and theninterview Bill as a follow-up
and hear if he's been able tokind of come through on some of
those um, you know, decisionsand policies that he was hoping
(37:12):
to put in place.
So without further ado, pleaseenjoy season six, Steering the
Ship.
Exclusive first interview withRJO's new president, Bill
Becker.
What's up, everybody?
Still speaking with Bill Becker,RJO president.
So, Bill, let's talk about yourgoals and vision for RJO.
Um, so you are uniquelypositioned to be able to
(37:34):
actually start um kind ofsteering and directing where RJO
is going to go.
And already it's been a pretty,you know, substantial amount of
growth.
I've been in the industry foreight years, and it feels like
in that time RJO has reallygrown.
Can you give me an idea on whatthe key issues and main focuses
are for RJO for like the next,you know, less than three years?
SPEAKER_02 (37:58):
Sure.
You know, I think the issuesright now is just uh trying to
get our uh systems in place forthe size of shows that we have,
trying to take care of all thehousekeeping things.
Because, you know, looking backin the past five years, even
before COVID, we've got thegolden egg.
We just have to figure out howto hold on to it.
(38:18):
Um so when it comes to that, Iyou know, I look at my role
here, and I'm really not tryingto change anything.
I'm just trying to keep thisskip pointed in the right
direction.
And I I got to keep steeringback to the board of directors
as as uh these guys are reallythe ones that put all the
decisions together and try anduh steer the ship in the
(38:41):
direction that it's going andoffer up uh some of the new
programs that we've got going onand so on and so forth.
But uh I would say, you know,I'm really not trying to change
things.
I'm just trying to keep thingsheaded in the same direction and
and bring on all the problemsthat that that come what may and
and deal with those as as theycome on board.
SPEAKER_07 (39:00):
So what about the post-COVID kind of aspect?
So you mentioned that thingshave changed in the past five
years or even more recently.
I saw COVID as an impact one-commerce and just luxury
buying online.
And because of the fact thattravel was suddenly shut down,
people had their luxury budgets,if you will, for a family and a
(39:21):
household uh suddenly got pouredright into tangible assets,
usually jewelry, uh, whichcreated this large boom,
incredible couple of years,record-breaking years for
jewelers, it's starting tosimmer off.
And I've seen some stores, youknow, have tougher years in just
you know the past one or two,especially with an uncertain
(39:42):
like economy.
Is this something that you arespeaking with jewelers about and
how to, I don't know, keep keepthings flowing well for an
average, average ish um inindependent retail store?
Is is that something that youguys are trying to solve as RJO?
Or is it about giving them thetools to solve it themselves?
SPEAKER_02 (40:03):
You know, I I think w none of us expected what to
happen during COVID thatactually happened.
And I think we all benefitedfrom that in in many ways.
We were all kind of surprised tothat fact.
And like you said, things aregetting back to normal, but I
think that's the sort of thingthat really brings RJO into
(40:23):
limelight.
Those people are, they need us,we need them more than we ever
did.
And it's now is is a good timeto go to an RJO show and go to
those educational seminars andlearning opportunities and
networking with other jewelersbecause we're all going through
the same thing.
We really haven't experiencedany significant downturn in in
(40:45):
our economy.
We've really had to watch ourinventory.
We've had to uh watch ourstaffing, but I think
everybody's going through that.
And that's the type of thingthat I think that going to an
RGO event will help youaccomplish.
It uh you are able to go tolearning opportunities and
seminars and educational thingsto learn about what people are
(41:09):
going through and and how tostaff better, how to control
your inventory better, what todo with that inventory that uh
you get left over with.
I mean, everybody's got agedinventory, but it's it's it's
what you do with it.
But that's kind of the thing Ithink that what is one of RGO's
strong points is that we're allin this together.
SPEAKER_07 (41:30):
Okay.
One of those things that I finduh always funny about having
worked in the jewelry industryfor kind of a long time at this
point, eight and a half years,soon to be nine next year, is
that I have like a little bit ofa bleed over of what my job is
and what my personal life is.
So I a lot of times I'm doingresearch or working with
(41:51):
clients, things related tosocial media, and as a result,
my social media, my personalsocial media, is increasingly
getting shown a lot of jewelry.
And what I think is so funny isthat uh I always joke that, you
know, Google and all these uh,you know, cookies all think I am
probably the most indecisivebachelor of all time.
And one of the things though,that was a happy, you know, I
(42:14):
guess, uh coincidence, is Iended up finding this brand that
I absolutely love.
And I thought that theirstorytelling was maybe the best
I found all year.
This is with Komoka Pearls.
Komoka Pearls are uh based outof Tahiti, so way out in the
ocean.
And I spoke with Josh Humbert,and he talks about a ton of
(42:36):
really interesting detailsrelated to pearl farming, and
they farm these uh black pearlstypically.
And I this is again one of thoseinterviews where I hope I didn't
come across as unprofessionalbecause all I could do was just
ask every question I had aboutpearls, and they were so
interesting.
I very a-linear just me asking.
But what was also really cool isI was interviewing him, and it
(42:59):
was like uh, you know, you couldhear roosters going in the
background, and a couple oftimes people were like, you
know, coming by and giving himnew pearls, and uh he had pearls
on the table, and he, you know,panned the camera down so I
could I could look at them.
Uh it was one of it's probablymy favorite interview I did all
this past year, just on a purelyinteresting level.
(43:20):
And uh I hope that people goback and and check this one out
because I don't even know if itgot all the respect it deserved
because I I think he was just awealth of information.
And what's also funny is umsometimes I try to um make
myself seem smarter than I maybeam.
And what's funny is with thisone, I asked him, um, oh yeah,
(43:41):
like how are like aren't pearlsformed by sand?
Because I remember that fromthis book, The Pearl.
It was so funny is he's like,no, that's actually not how
they're formed.
They're that's a misconception.
And I was like, oh, like let'snot let's not cover that one.
Like, let's cut that part out.
And he's like, no, no, no, no,you should keep that in because
it's it's important for peopleto know.
And I thought that that was oneof those like rare, unpolished
(44:03):
human interactions on a podcastthat I'm actually kind of uh
very fond of looking back onthat and how I learned something
along with the the listeners.
So enjoy season six, how afamily pearl farm went viral
featuring Komoko Pearls.
SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
So we're taking very specific cells that are shell
building, and we're taking themfrom a donor oyster that's
that's sacrificed, and we cutout the mantle and we we uh
process it into little squares,and then we insert those squares
into the body of a host oysteralong with a nucleus.
So then if all goes well, thatlittle piece of tissue will grow
(44:42):
over the nucleus and depositshell on it.
SPEAKER_07 (44:44):
And the nucleus is typically sand, correct?
SPEAKER_00 (44:47):
No, not correct.
Um sand is almost never at thecore of any pearl, like natural
or or otherwise.
SPEAKER_07 (44:55):
I guess I'm confused.
I thought that uh that's whatwas causing the the pearls to
grow.
SPEAKER_00 (45:00):
Right.
So that that's a that's a commonmisconception, and and I I blame
John Steinbeck from it for it.
Paul, cut that out.
Cut that out, Paul.
No, no, don't cut anything out.
It's all good because becausethat that's a common
misconception, and that's that'swhat people think.
And so it's good to be able toclear that up.
(45:20):
So, Paul, leave it in.
So basically, um oysters are aresupremely uh suited to stop that
from happening.
Like they're really, really goodat keeping sand out.
And I actually have a friend,uh, he's a Mexican pearl farmer
in the city of Cortez, and he heactually stuffed a bunch of sand
in in oysters thinking, ha haha, I'm gonna make a bunch of
(45:40):
pearls.
And uh none of the oystersproduce any pearls at all.
So it's not that easy.
Like they're they're really goodat at just getting rid of sand.
I mean, they they they liveamongst the sand, so that that's
not how natural pearls areformed.
Uh, natural pearls are formedusually from a parasite that
that drills through the shell,it pierces through the shell,
(46:02):
and then the mantle will form alike a cup and then entomb the
the intruder um in its own fleshto to suffocate it, and then it
and then it forms pearl aroundit.
So your your question is was nota bad question at all.
And in fact, it's it's a reallygood question, and and it's a
very common uh uhmisunderstanding.
Um it's not reallymisunderstanding, it's just it's
(46:24):
just bad information, and itjust comes from sort of uh,
yeah.
I mean, I I think I really thinkit comes all the way back.
Uh it goes all the way back toJohn Steinbeck um in uh the
Pearl where he talks about this,you know, this this giant pearl,
and and it all came from a froma grain of sand.
Uh we read that in high school.
Yeah, for sure we did.
It's poetic, you know, it's likeit's what you want to believe.
(46:46):
It's like, oh, you know, liketransforming the difficulty into
something beautiful, like justlike humans.
Like, oh, isn't that nice?
Sure, it's nice, but it doesn'treally happen that way.
All right, everybody.
SPEAKER_07 (46:56):
So that's all the 10 episodes I wanted to earmark and
maybe shout out.
And I really wanted to maybejust in summary talk about
season six.
I learned so much during this.
There was a nice little stretchin there when I felt like, man,
we were firing on all cylinders.
It was so cool.
There's uh about four or five ofthose interviews that I
(47:17):
highlighted came from a stretchduring June through like July
that really I felt like, man, II had some awesome guests on and
some really interestinginterviews and did some cool
things.
And this time I'm I really feellike we really get maybe not
just better, but we change alittle bit.
And this podcast, like Imentioned in in one of the
(47:39):
intros, is that it sometimes canfeel very insulated.
Like I work fully remote fromupstate New York, and I
sometimes feel like I'm viewingthe jewelry world through like a
window, and it kind of feelslike if I talk, it like you
know, is anyone listening on theother side?
And the fact that you'relistening is very cool.
(47:59):
But uh, we took this podcast,and I feel like from five to the
end of season six, what did welearn?
Man, we I think I interviewedsome really interesting new
people to the industry withStone Algo and uh Komoka Pearls
and just a few of the otherones, and um, I had some on some
really interesting exclusiveinterviews with um, you know,
(48:22):
just different presidents andeven just speaking with uh a
bunch of different vendors.
That's something I'm hopefullygonna do a bunch more of in
season seven as I do more withthe premium vendor program at
Punchmark, is hopefully I'll beable to speak with even more
vendors.
But at the same time, I say thisa million times.
This is my favorite part of myjob.
I love this part.
It doesn't even feel like work alot of the times.
(48:44):
It feels like I just get to sitdown and like interview someone
and talk to them and hear theirstories and hear what they're
excited about.
And what's even cooler is I seethese people that are
professionals, I can see thatthey take this also very
seriously.
Um, the jewelry industry, what Ialways find very endearing is
that this stuff is important tothese people.
(49:04):
What are we doing?
We're selling expensive piecesof metal and these rare objects,
setin them, and we're um, youknow, charging money for it.
But there is something moreabout jewelry that I think pulls
at the heartstrings and like theI don't know, the kind of the
psyche and like the feeling ofwhat it's like to be a human.
And I think that that's part ofwhat I hope to convey is when
(49:27):
you speak with these people,whether they're talking about
gold or pearls or about diamondsor about um, you know, their
family business, man, it feelslike they they really care.
There's not a lot of peoplehere, even though it is a luxury
um industry, there's not a lotof people here who are just here
for like, you know, the money.
Um, a lot of these people, man,they care and they're continuing
(49:49):
a story that maybe wasn't evenstarted by them.
It's a family business that'sbeen around for 70, 80, 100,
several hundred years.
And I think what's so cool is uhthose people, when they get on
this podcast and they speak withme, they tell me about how
excited they are to share thatstory with our listeners.
And that's you.
And so you're part of theequation, and I can't thank you
(50:11):
enough for listening.
You get to be my favorite partof my job.
I think it's a really coolthing.
I also want to say a veryspecial thank you to my boss,
Ross Cochran, and uh Dan andBrian for letting me continue to
do this.
It's uh, you know, it's not likeit's for free.
You know, it takes my time andthey have to pay me a salary.
So the fact that I get to uh dothis and sit down with these
(50:32):
people is it just feels like areal treat sometimes.
Um I also want to say a veryspecial thank you to my editor,
Paul Suarez.
Thank you, Paul.
Um I really enjoy getting towork with him and he's the
utmost professional.
He really kind of has this thingdialed in to my partner in
crime, even though we don't talkuh face to face hardly ever, but
it's been uh a really cool ride.
(50:53):
So just want to say we're notstopping.
We're gonna keep on going.
Season seven already started.
We got off to a reallyinteresting start with some
really interesting uminterviews, I think.
Uh some people that are gonna bereturning, and also a couple
people um from uh that arevendors that I think maybe
haven't been spoken to before.
(51:14):
Um so be on the lookout forthat.
We're gonna be returning onJanuary 6th, hopefully, and
we'll have our first episode,our little intro episode, kind
of set the scene, and then we'regonna be off to the races and
we're back.
If this is something you enjoy,maybe consider sharing in the
loop with your friends, whetherthat's your friends in your
jewelry store or your friends inthe jewelry industry.
(51:36):
I think that the more people whoare in the know about everything
that's going on, the better andhealthier our industry is.
I think that traditionally,jewelers are maybe a little bit
slow when we update thetechnology.
And this is kind of our way withhow we started with to get
people prepared for changes.
And I think increasingly when inthe loop gets brought up, I
(51:58):
think that people kind ofunderstand what our goal is.
And I think that that's a funthing, whether that's through
PunchMark or just through ourpodcast.
All right, I think maybe I'llleave it right there.
Thank you so much for listening.
And uh my name is Michael Murpo.
I'm a director of userexperience at PunchMark, and I
host the podcast in the loopevery week.
Thank you so much.
(52:19):
We'll be back next year.
Thanks so much.
See you then.
Bye.
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