It doesn't get more raw and real than Jill Heiman, a powHERhouse vision coach, mindset mentor, and founder of Awake Journey, whose mission is to guide women from the spiral of burnout to the circle of empowered creation. Jill shares profound truths she's collected through years of anxiety, depression, and trauma, finding healing in the "darkness", learning to establish deep safety in her body, and consciously cultivate mastery over her mind to bring her soul-visions to life.
What does it mean to make peace with the darkest parts of ourselves and meet them with neutrality? How do we dance with our dreams and make peace without guaranteed outcomes? Can we see the perfection when things don't go to plan as stepping stones towards our higher purpose? This episode is loaded with deep insight, powerful truths, and tools to help you anchor deeply into self-trust, discover what it means to be embodied in your "circle self", and get out of the limiting beliefs that disempower us. Jill's story is an inspiring exploration of the creation process, how to meet and bring compassion to the deepest parts of ourselves, and why our thoughts, feelings, and actions affect our reality.
Connect with Jill: https://www.instagram.com/awakejourney/
https://www.facebook.com/yourawakejourney
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillheiman/
Topics in this episode:
- Anxiety, depression, and panic attacks and what your body might be communicating
- Understanding and making peace with our darkest selves
- The dance of dreams and reality: Finding peace without guaranteed outcomes
- Cultivating mastery over the mind
- The concept of 'circle self': Embodying wholeness in all aspects of our lives
- Breaking free from limiting beliefs
- Strategies to cultivate deep self-trust and personal transformation.
- How to rise above constraints that limit our true potential.
If you loved today’s episode, please leave a review and share your favorite takeaways by screenshotting this episode and tagging us on Instagram! We also have a free monthly community call on the first Wednesday of every month, join here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessica (00:00):
If you enjoy this episode, we would love it if you
would leave us a review, giveus a follow or a like and share
it with your friends.
Thanks, rebels.
Melissa (00:11):
To even question what you've been told is true is
incredibly courageous.
It doesn't always feel likecourage.
What looks like courage toother people, for me it feels
like survival.
This is our personal medicine.
If I'm surrounded by thinkers,by lovers, by passion, by
integrity, then I really dothink that I know who I am.
There is a piece that isindescribable when you're being
(00:33):
who you are and you're livingyour purpose Not going to come
to the end of my life and belike I didn't live the life I
was meant to live- Can I be socomfortable in the unknown and
so comfortable in thatuncertainty that every version
of it is going to be okay?
This is the Inner Rebel podcast.
Jessica (00:58):
Hey rebels, in our conversation today, we do talk
about sensitive and adultsubject matter.
We mentioned sexuality and aninstance of sexual assault, and
there is some explicit language.
We know this may trigger somepeople, so please use your
discretion and take care ofyourself today.
Melissa (01:14):
Welcome rebels to the Inner Rebel podcast.
Hello Jessica, hello Jill,hello ladies, this is such a
highlight of my week.
We have Jill Hyman here with ustoday and Jill gosh.
When I was getting ready forthis interview, I was looking
back over our journey and I knowI interviewed you years ago
(01:34):
when I first started to do this,in a way less professional
fashion, if you will.
I'm really excited to talkagain because life has shifted a
lot, as it does, over the lastseveral years.
Before we dive in, I'm going toshare a little bit about who
you are.
Jill Hyman is the founder ofAwake Journey, a safe haven for
Powerhouse, powerpower house.
(01:57):
I love that Powerhouse women tocreate their dreams into
reality by flowing fromoverdrive into purpose driven,
which we talk a lot about onhere.
Jill is a vision coach, mindsetmentor, bestselling author and
intuitive guide that currentlyresides among the mountains
outside of Asheville, northCarolina, at her retreat
(02:18):
sanctuary, the Nest, which weall need to go to, oh wow.
Yeah, we'll just put it outthere that we'll all be there
one day together and she runs avisionary sisterhood through her
Business Awake Journey, sowelcome Welcome to the Inner
Rebel podcast Hello Jessica,Hello Jill, so nice to meet you.
Jessica (02:37):
Thank you for joining us today I'm squeezing you.
Jill Heiman (02:40):
Oh, I'm so excited.
Melissa (02:42):
We spend zero time on the surface, we jump into the
deep end immediately which.
I know you like to exist theretoo.
I enjoy cannonballs.
Yeah, you will be cannonballingfrom the get go.
Inner Rebel is all about reallyembracing your authenticity and
defining the expectations thatwere put on you from all of the
external influences that we havein life.
(03:03):
So we're curious how do youidentify as who you are, and how
is that different than who youwere taught you were supposed to
be or who you thought youshould be?
Jill Heiman (03:14):
Yeah, it's such a big question.
I know I am so thrilled to behere because this is powerful
work that Inner Rebel and youtwo ladies are bringing forward,
and for me it's about it's beencoming to a place of embodiment
of my unique frequency that Ioperate in.
(03:35):
I like to say it's a sacredunion or sacred marriage of my
fiery action and my watery flowand being able to find that
marriage and myself of now wefucking go on for this one.
We moving forward.
I'm taking all of my strategic,logical brain power.
We're going to get it, maximizeresults, while also like, hold
(04:01):
on, hold on, sweet girl, we needto take a bath, we need some
epsom salt, go get yourself amassage.
It's been an ever evolvingdance in those two energies.
Who I thought that I was goingto be?
I think it's an interestingquestion because I always had
(04:23):
this internal thing pinballinginside me of like there has to
be more than life.
There has to be more than life,there has to be.
I literally heard this onrepeat from a very young age,
whether it was because my soulchose this human experience and
I was born in the amazing stateof Kansas and although the
state's amazing, it issurrounded and it's in the shape
(04:46):
of a box.
Right yeah, and it's not beyondme.
All of the work that I've done,of like of course, my journey
has been one of getting real faroutside of this box and into
the sphere that most suits me.
That's been my journey ofowning my inner rebel.
Jessica (05:09):
I love it.
Can you describe a little bitof what that box was growing up
for you?
Melissa (05:15):
outside of, like actual Kansas.
But I do love that vision Likeyou're literally born in a box.
Jill Heiman (05:22):
Something else.
My mother's womb was not a box.
That was a beautiful littlespace but, like anyone else, had
a lot of shoulds placed on me.
I was an athlete, I played allthe sports and did all of that
which we've all heard about.
My journey has been one ofreally learning how to play in
(05:42):
the darkness, and I've gotten aheck of a lot of experiences
that afforded me the opportunityto really meet myself in the
dark spaces, given experiencesthat I found myself in some not
so welcoming, if you will.
(06:02):
And so it was a lot of my bodyinforming me too, without me
knowing.
My body was informing me.
Depression for well over adecade got on medication, for it
was just really having a lot ofanxiety and panic attacks.
I remember one time I went toLas Vegas right and my 20s was
parting my ass off let's be realand trying to numb things out.
(06:26):
I remember in this hotel space,I didn't know what was
happening to me.
I'm supposed to be having fun,fun trip with my girlfriends.
I've never talked about thestory.
I find myself in the hallway atone point and then I'm like
literally in the bathtub havinga onset panic attack.
My friend doesn't know what todo I have alcohol pulsing in my
system, which only aids thatright Panic attack.
(06:49):
It's only aiding the anxiety,and that lingered on for several
years until I was actually ableto go into the darkness and
begin my personal healing ofself of these experiences that I
had at a young age.
Melissa (07:05):
Did you know that it was a panic attack?
Because I had panic attacks incollege and I called an
ambulance because I thought Iwas having a heart attack.
I had no idea what it was.
So I'm curious was that yourfirst one, and did you know what
was happening?
Jill Heiman (07:18):
Yeah, I got really familiar with the difference
between anxiety attack and apanic attack, which I'm not like
over here giving myself aribbon for At that time I didn't
know what it was, so it waslike heart pulsing really
quickly.
Am I coming down from lots ofalcohol, right, like it doesn't
help if you're out partying.
But then when I stepped awayfrom that lifestyle of drinking
(07:40):
and partying and then it wasstill continuing, I like to call
anxiety like a snowball effectSomething will happen that then
it builds on.
Other things are happening andit's build on, build on, build
on, whereas at least for me, apanic attack is an immediate
trigger, that is, my body'sresponding in a way that is like
this isn't welcome, oh my gosh,like what's going on.
(08:01):
And it's been a real deeppractice of lots of modalities
to support my nervous system.
Melissa (08:07):
So many modalities.
Jessica (08:09):
I'm really curious, because I know a lot of people
who struggle with anxiety whatis your relationship with
anxiety now, and what kind ofmessenger do you think anxiety
is for you, about what's goingon in you?
Jill Heiman (08:25):
Maybe I can start to feel that vibration when I'm
in a place of overwhelm, whichnow I'm aware, whatever the
overwhelm might be, orspecifically living in a period
of unknown which is likeconstant for me at this stage.
I've reprogrammed myself verywell and I've supported my
(08:45):
nervous system to be able towork through it.
I think it takes a lot of selfpractice.
Everything for me, stems backto my thoughts.
I can specifically know whatfrequency I'm vibrating at my
body level.
If I think about okay, here'smy thought patterns, of course
anxiety is going to come upbecause I'm literally going
through my to-do list at a onemillion rate clip with no
(09:09):
solution, and then I'm allowingthat to repeat and what happens
is that's only going to expand,because that's the law of
attraction no matter what thethought is, it will expand.
It could be a negative frequency.
I'm sitting here like F I gotthis do, I got this, do this do
and I got to hang out with myman.
Oh shit, self care, right, okay, then I'm like amplifying
(09:31):
because I'm attracting that in.
So for me it's been a realconscious mastering my mind
tenfold every day.
Jessica (09:40):
I really want to come back to mastering your mind, but
I just want to follow up withthe question around the panic
attack, because you mentionedthat comes from a specific
trigger.
Can you speak to that messengerwhen your body goes into panic?
Jill Heiman (09:53):
Panic for me is when she's not safe.
She is my body.
When my body's not safe, thenthere's a panic.
So at 19, I'll share witheveryone.
I got really curious and I waslike, let's have this threesome
with these two guys Cool, Itrusted them.
I was at a college party.
I went by myself From there, Iwas putting my clothes on and,
(10:14):
in walks, five men pull theirpants down, put condoms on and
sit on the bed.
And so at 19, when I talk aboutbeing put in a box, I've done
an immense amount of work to beable to show up in this space of
energetic neutral, to be ableto share this story.
But the whole box analogy is,on a whole high level, scope for
(10:37):
me, right Of wow.
And then this experience I'mliterally locked in a room that
is a box and I can't get out.
This was my deepest level ofhealing.
That then unlocked so manythings because I promised myself
, when I got out of that roomand then I stepped on that porch
, that I would never talk aboutit again and, funnily enough, it
(11:00):
has kind of become.
I think the year of 2019 was myyear of.
I did a lot of podcasts andthis is all I talked about was
offering healing space for womenthat have been sexually
assaulted or abused in anymanner.
So my body related safety waspretty much thrown out the
window.
And then I can date back toother times as all of you out
(11:21):
there listening and I'm sureboth of you right Many times, as
young women don't be emotionalShhh, silent, right, we've all
heard those things.
So then that was already I'mnot safe.
But then a really big teatrauma event that I got to work
through to recalibrate whatsafety is in my body.
Jessica (11:39):
Thank you for sharing that.
I think that's going to help alot of people.
When you come out of asignificantly traumatic event
and you go I am never going totalk about this again your body
is still talking to you about it.
That's the sense that I getaround the panic attack, and so
you can't ignore that your bodyis continuing to have that
(12:01):
conversation, even if you're nothaving it with anyone around
you.
So what was that conversationlike for you inside of yourself,
and what was the definingmoment or the tipping point
where you decided to get healing?
Jill Heiman (12:16):
Thank you for pulling that back together,
because that is the intention ofsharing that story.
This was the anchoring point ofwhere all the depression came
from throughout my 20s 10 plusyears of depression.
Here's this moment, the panicattacks.
Here's this moment.
Anytime I'm not feeling safe.
Now there were otherexperiences in my 20s that, like
(12:37):
this is a safe space and I'mjust going to blast it all open,
right, so people can see thejourney and you can hear I don't
think people share the fullscope of it and it's like life
sometimes is just life and likethis is what it was.
But like at 19 had thatoccurrence, 23,.
I was held at gunpoint, walkinghome by myself, holy shit.
(13:00):
So then it was.
Then my body again the safety.
I crumble on the ground when Isay like I've dealt and delve
into the darkness.
It's a safe place for me atthis juncture.
There are some other things inmy 20s, other occurrences that I
really got challenged on, andso I'm dealing with this
depression.
(13:20):
Panic attacks are coming in.
I think I was 25 when I got onmedication because I made a
really big heart decision tosupport raising this newborn
child while her mother washandcuffed to the bed.
She was a fugitive, so I chosea relation.
This is some stuff.
This is some life stuff.
(13:40):
All of this was showing up inmy body and I wasn't able to
meet it.
So then I'm creatingreoccurring patterns of not
being safe.
The finale was at 28.
My wedding was called off threemonths before.
Amen.
I had a memorial.
I loo for this man that calledit off.
(14:01):
I am very, forever grateful tohim.
But that was my rock bottom.
I had moved in the basement,moved from Florida back to
Kansas, moved in the basementwith my parents for a week,
realized I couldn't do thisThankfully had quite a bit of
saving, saved up and then movedinto my own place.
I was not well when myhoneymoon was supposed to be.
(14:24):
I ended up going to Mexico witha friend and just really was
heavily turning to alcohol andheavily turning to a place of
back to my body, as like thisobject, which never felt good,
but that was my place of power.
That's how I knew I had power.
Jessica (14:45):
Can you explain that a little bit With that feeling of
power.
Jill Heiman (14:49):
You walk into a room, you walk into a club, mind
you, I'm 28.
This is a long time ago.
It was this sense of I can ownthe room by the sheer sense of
my body, not the essence of me,not this embodiment of who I am,
but just my sexuality will getme whatever I want.
(15:11):
I was at a place of how do Ieven communicate?
I couldn't communicate myemotions, let alone even say
what emotion it was that I waseven feeling in a moment From
here.
It was a beautiful relationshipthat I found myself in.
I will call this this beautifulman and angel on earth of some
(15:34):
sense, because he was able tosee me after this unfolding.
I was in a depression when, Ithink, we were together for two
years.
He just was able to just be myfriend.
That's really ultimately all.
It was like deepest level offriendship.
I could somewhat begin to feelsafe in this relationship with a
(15:59):
man.
I felt supported From here.
He would keep like he knew Iwas depressed, Like I was not
who I should be, because I had alot of unhealed stuff and my
body was not okay.
And so it was a Joe Roganpodcast with Christine Hasler
(16:22):
and he's listening to Joe Roganand he's like I really think
that you should listen to thispodcast.
I don't know like he's tryinganything.
What about this book?
What if you?
You know, da, da, da, da, da.
And I'm like, okay, I rememberthe day y'all I take my dog on a
walk, it's a fall day in Kansascity and there's leaves, I can
hear them crunching, and I'mlistening to this podcast and
(16:45):
for the first time in my life, Iwas like, yes, I was just
nodding, yes, yes to everythingthat this woman was saying.
What was being talked about?
I have no idea, I can'tremember, but it was something.
Melissa (17:00):
You just remembered that.
You remember that, yes.
Jessica (17:03):
What did it awaken in you?
Jill Heiman (17:05):
listening to it, it was like someone gets me, for
finally someone freaking gets me.
And so she was offering awomen's retreat in California.
Literally gave no location youlike, just fly in, you get
bussed up to this old school,some church building I mean I
(17:25):
can't even tell y'all, you're upin the mountains.
No service on these bedswallpaper.
I mean it was just funny.
But I said yes to that.
I'm like I don't know what thisis.
I don't know where I'm evengoing, but I'm gonna go.
It was March 10th, 2017, iswhen I finally said yes, and
that was the no looking back oflike really finally becoming the
(17:49):
author of my life.
Jessica (17:52):
Before we get into this new phase of life, which I'm
excited to learn about.
I love how, right off the top,you talked about your
relationship with darkness, andyou're not the first powerful
healer that I've met who hasexpressed that.
Life has brought them into thedarkness over and over again.
I spent many years trying to dohealing and I think I was
(18:14):
really afraid to go into thedarkness because I thought that
the darkness would.
You talked about the law ofattraction.
I thought the darkness wouldjust keep bringing more of that
to me and that I had to get intopositivity.
I had to be in the positivemindset.
I think a lot that is sold asactually spiritual bypass and it
was once I actually because oflife circumstances, that I had
(18:37):
no choice but to dive in that.
That is where the healinghappened and the transformation
happened, and I do think that'ssuch an important thing for
people who are listening in.
You are healing when you feellike you are having to just look
at the hardest parts ofyourself and find a way to
alchemize, that transmute andmove through.
That is where you actually meetyourself.
So can we just talk for amoment about that?
Jill Heiman (19:02):
Yeah, there's a lot out there.
We are in a time of humanconsciousness rapidly rising and
, in this, up leveling and somuch tech.
Like you can receive anythingthat you want in a matter of
seconds.
It takes the highest level ofdevotion, not dedication.
Devotion to you, choosing whatfeels good for you.
(19:27):
There's a lot of people callingthemselves healers, teachers.
I'm very careful with the wordhealer, that's not my job.
Like I do my work, I healmyself and in this I fully trust
that it is exuding an energythat is offering permission for
the next woman to go meetherself and play with herself.
(19:51):
In the dark.
However, that looks For me thelight.
It just feels so much warmer.
The sun is warmer because I'vewalked through that.
I've been in the cold, I'vebeen in my closet, I've raged in
my pillow, I've fought withmyself in front of a mirror,
like I've let all of the piecesof me that are like you're
fucking not worth it, you'refucking piece of shit, who are
(20:14):
you?
You think you're gonna do this,bitch, please.
Those are the pieces of me thatare raw, that I sit with and
have really met face to face inthe mirror.
No one's gonna see that, causeit's me in devotion to, like,
making sure I'm good and I'msafe and I'm okay, you know.
Melissa (20:33):
Yeah, thank you for sharing all of that, because
it's what you're visible now.
You know you're online, you'redoing live videos.
If you look on your LinkedInprofile, you've got a really
wonderful resume.
Your life looks great, you'vehad success and People watching
you and I know you're very openabout your story.
But I really want to reflectback how much I appreciate your
(20:57):
authenticity, sharing thejourney, because that's what
happens.
We look at someone and we'relike, wow, look at them and
you're like, yeah, no, but I sayI've been like calling myself a
piece of shit in the mirror fora couple decades, but now I'm
like out here, you know, but Ilove you, saying this is a
devotion to me and this is mechoosing what feels good with
(21:17):
discernment.
Jessica (21:18):
Mm-hmm, and we don't have to stay in the darkness.
I don't want to scare ouraudience that healing is just
darkness.
That's not what I mean.
It's that we do have to grieve.
Right, we're looking intotrauma that we haven't resolved
or haven't made peace with, sothere's parts of it that can
feel really hard and ugly anddifficult, but also there's joy
(21:40):
in it.
There's also a lot of beauty init, what you just said.
There is a softness that youcan have, and it's not a place
you stay forever.
Jill Heiman (21:48):
I Just want that to be clear as well.
The thing is, is it's aprogramming that we are assuming
the darkness is quote-unquotebad, that we're assuming it's
gonna be this?
Yeah, horrifying experience.
That's all part of theprogramming.
I could meet parts of darknessevery day and it just feels
different now because I've gonethere.
And how would it feel if yourdarkness is actually a place of
(22:11):
neutrality?
Mm-hmm, I know Melissa and Ihave had the same teacher Tracy
hard word you got to have therupture to have the rise.
How can I play in that rupturefor, however long it takes,
while expanding myself, to be inthis most abundant frequency,
for all my desires to attract tome, while I'm playing in the
rupture, like Personally, that'sthe journey I'm in, right now.
Melissa (22:34):
Yeah, yeah, tracy came on the podcast.
So, tracy, our listeners haveheard her and it's whoo a
profoundly impactfulconversation.
Truthfully, as you would expectwith Tracy, we spoke to that
Learning how to feel safe inyour body, to be able to I don't
think she used the language ofrupture and rapture in that
podcast per se but to be able tohold it in your body.
(22:55):
And I know we talked about lasttime of how powerful it is when
you can bring your whole selfto every Circumstance, wherever
you are.
You know you recently.
When did you leave corporate?
How long has it been now?
Almost a year.
Jill Heiman (23:07):
Happy almost your anniversary, Thank you.
I may still play in the space.
You know I love building brands, so one never knows well, and I
like that.
Melissa (23:16):
You even say I may go back right, because it's not
about this one Structure is bador good, it's how do I feel when
I'm showing up there?
Who am I being when I show upthere?
Am I able to bring my wholeself?
So how have you been able tobring your whole self while
still being in Traditionalstructures that don't
necessarily support that,because I know that's a big part
of how you support women.
(23:37):
So how have you been able to dothat?
Jill Heiman (23:39):
Thank you for asking that.
Yeah, so this is what I call anembodied circle self.
So every single piece of us hasbeen met, has been loved, has
been given compassion, and nowyou are the embodiment of you,
like Authentically you, and so Ihave been working with this for
(23:59):
five years and Actually I'mexcited.
It's almost a launch time forthe world to see my signature
method behind it all.
I played with it in corporatespace, so what better way to
test a embodiment and really seehow is this, how does this feel
?
So for three years, when I wasin one of the fastest growing
(24:21):
Brands and the wellness space, Iwas in sales when I was like,
let's play with this and thiscorporate realm.
Many times I was meeting myselflike, oh you safe, are you good
, are you good?
And then it just got to a pointwhere there was no other safety
than me being myself.
Like that was how I was feelingsafe and what happened is I
would be invited to do groupMeditations or our CEO would be
(24:46):
like, ah Jill, this is yourthing.
Like can you lead us?
And XYZ, whatever it would be,and like big team sales meetings
and so, without me needing tosay a lot, just showing up as I
am and Taking on this shift inmy leadership and my show up.
It's opening doors forOpportunities is what it does.
(25:06):
So what I've witnessed is youare this embodiment of all
pieces of you, which I callcircle self.
From here you then are able toattract out warp speed, and I've
seen this time to time again.
And so then, once we get intothe embodiment place, I love
playing in strategy.
I can play with this all daylong.
But I don't suggest strategyuntil you're in the embodiment,
(25:27):
because then your strategy isgoing to be in more of an
alignment place.
But once you're whole, you'rein this whole self.
It's Unapologetic.
We as women say sorry way toomany times for really silly
things.
If you're very conscious andaware, catch how many times you
might just be like, oh, I'msorry.
It's being in that place ofowning your know as much as you
(25:47):
give away your yeses right.
Once you've been able to meetall of the pieces of you, so
they all get a have a voice, noone's feeling left out, no part
of you, no part of yourexperience is feeling left out,
then you really begin to be ableto feel in your body.
This is a no, this is a yes,and you get a state it from such
a strength, or it's just likeno well, I think it's important
(26:09):
to speak to the iterativeprocess that this is right.
Melissa (26:13):
Yeah like none of us are sitting here, like we're
done.
We've checked all the boxes,we've met all the places.
We're on this journey ourentire lives and it's such an
iterative process ofestablishing safety in all these
little moments.
And so we talked about thedarkness, but also the process
of just these little baby steps.
So I think it's important topoint out because I wanted to
feel achievable, I wanted tofeel attainable for people that
(26:35):
it's like I don't want to go tothat spot.
You know, I don't know what'sone tiny little thing you can do
today.
That's right.
Jessica (26:41):
You know, I also want to bring it back to the mindset
piece that you mentioned earlier, because I know that you work
with mindset as a coach and Ithink people show up in your
life at the right moments inthis Conversation feels very
kismet to me, and I can't tellyou how many people I've been
talking to lately who have said,well, I'm at this age, so it's
never gonna happen to me.
Whatever you know it is or itdidn't happen in one very
(27:04):
specific way that I expected itto happen, so it's never gonna
happen.
But I've also had my heartbroken in my life when certain
dreams didn't come to fruition,so I can understand that.
There's this wanting to protectyourself right from getting
your hopes up or being pragmaticand practical About realistic
things that happen as you age orwhatever.
I'm curious what is thatbalance to strike?
What is that balance betweengetting swept up in fantasy and
(27:28):
dreams, or even vision, and thenlearning how to work with the
scope of reality?
Where does pragmatism andpracticality actually have its
place?
And how do we, when we're inthese rigid thought patterns,
start to open up to what reallycould happen, even if we've
never seen it happen before?
Jill Heiman (27:47):
I might be the wrong one to talk about
practicality with.
I don't play in that I don'tplay.
It's very deep, generationalprogramming, the thing with
practicality for me and my body.
It recognizes it as settling.
So if I am to look atcircumstances or anything going
on around me and being okay, ifit's not feeling good, then
(28:11):
that's me settling.
I have a commitment with methat when I'm on my deathbed
taking my last breath, that Iwill have zero regrets, that I
will have said, yeah, did that,did that, did that, did that.
That is the place that I livein.
Now, that is not the place thateveryone lives in, and so a
(28:32):
powerful question is well, whatif?
What if?
Some people will refuse to gothere?
And when a person is in thatdeep of a commitment, they're
just committed.
They're committed to keeping ithow it is and they're committed
to having their scope of theirthought process on their lack.
Whether they see it or not,it's a commitment to lack.
(28:54):
I want more money, I want oh,this is just how this is.
There's no way I don't havethat on my resume.
I can't.
There's no way I can get thisjob that I really want because
I've spent 20 years doing XYZ.
That's what you believe, thenthat's what you believe, you're
committed to that belief, and soit's going to take a person
(29:14):
making a commitment to switchthe old beliefs and their deep
commitment to that.
That then they can actually becoachable.
But if you don't want it andyou want to stay in the realm,
that is just like falling suitto what is then I allow that
person to be in that placebecause I've talked to lots of
(29:34):
people.
I hope you come back whenyou're in a place of being open
to what could be.
I work with a lot of women andthis is stuff that a lot of
people would be like.
This is impossible, likeindustry shifts people think are
impossible.
I've done it a ton of times.
I went from beverage to petfood, to managing women's only
(29:57):
gyms and then into a wellnessbrand, and then one woman had
come to me and her focus wasdata, numbers, supply and demand
, and she really desired to tapinto her creativity and be like
a creative director or somethingfor a PR firm.
This is a 360 degree shift y'all, but she was open and she was
(30:18):
willing to get into.
We got to go into the darkness,if you will, of the thought
pattern and the belief reallygets the root.
Where does it come from, sothat we can begin excavating
from there?
Simultaneously, we're playingwith your vision, so we're
allowing this frequency of yourvision to come in as you're
clearing the way, so thevibration of your vision can
(30:40):
land in your body, in this newspace that you're creating in
your body, so then you can holdthis frequency Under 12 months.
This woman literally sent me apicture and she's like new art
director for this PR firm.
I wish this, but it takes adevotion to not settling or
getting outside of whatever thepracticality game is that you
(31:04):
might be up to.
Jessica (31:05):
I totally agree with you.
The piece that I'd like toexplore with you is about, I
mean, you mentioned earlier thatyou are dancing in the unknown
a lot right now and that thereis an element of risk that is
inherent or built into pursuinga dream when you don't have a
guarantee in how it's actuallygoing to turn out.
(31:27):
And it does take a leap offaith, I think where the
practicality comes from iswanting certainty.
They want to know or have aclear idea of how things are
going to go for them.
What is it going to look likein five years from now?
And when we pursue somethingwith our heart, it just doesn't
come with that certainty.
(31:48):
But it also means it might notwork out.
Can we make peace with it notworking out?
Can we make peace with lifelooking different than we
thought it should, or assumethat it should?
So what is the space that weneed to be in inside of
ourselves?
Because I'm at an age, forexample, where children may not
(32:09):
happen.
It may not happen, it's still adream.
It's something that I reallywant in my life, but I do have a
biological clock that's tickingand I don't have a partner
right now and I don't know whatwould have to happen and how
fast it would happen in order tomake that a reality.
So can I still hold a visionfor that?
And the optimism or the hope?
(32:29):
Is it hope?
I don't know what that is, orbe open to that, but also grieve
the possibility that it may notLike.
How do you hold those twothings at the same time?
Jill Heiman (32:40):
I can play with that exact one very well, and
then that exact space sister.
So I don't play in the grievingyet there's no need to grieve
because nothing's happened.
If we want to play in thepossibility of, like, I desire a
child, as do I.
I made the decision at 35 notto freeze my eggs was a whole
(33:01):
process that I went through andhere I am now and the stage that
I'm 38 I'll be 39 this summerand I'm playing and it again.
I'm reopened it.
Okay, how does this feel now?
How do I want to go about this?
And I'll stay on the havingchildren, because I think this
is something that a lot ofindependent women that have been
(33:23):
single and I'm in partnershipnow but things are happening
later quote unquote in our lifeand for me this is everyone's
individual journey.
When I say devotion, that'struly what I mean, because your
connection to your vision isyour own.
Mine is very much a spirituallead, guidance of trusting.
(33:44):
So I have made that devotion tomyself and to God, universe,
whatever name you give it, andI've made that prayer many times
.
Started at the age of 35, whenI could start to feel this whole
like ooh, I'd be a good mom,I'd kick ass as a mom.
Mom's not be okay.
Do I desire this?
(34:05):
Ooh, I could shift generations,like, how would I be a parent?
All of these things you know.
And so I offer a prayer when itis a big, big vision that is
fully, fully unknown whetherit's having kids for me, this
now, this house that I'm livingin, that's going to be a retreat
, sanctuary, big, big vision.
There comes a point in thevision where you've got to care
(34:27):
about it enough to let it go.
I have let this go.
I hold it daily.
I hold it if I'm to have achild, if I'm blessed enough to
have a child, god, I trust thatthis will be in the best and
highest good for me and mypartner.
Right, I wanted to become anauthor.
This vision came into my fieldin 2019.
(34:48):
20, 22 became a reality.
Three years, the prayer.
I held the vision every singleday, something I call bullet
point journaling, with your I amand your plane and your vision
language, and I'm holding thisevery day.
I'm an author.
I'm an author.
However this looks, I play withthe titles.
I play with it.
So when you're talking like akid vision, I play with child's
(35:12):
names.
I play with the spirits thatare coming to me, around me.
But this is it's a devotionaldance of a prayer with a vision
is the best scope that I canshare, because, sure, there's
risk and the question that Iwould ask anytime.
Anyone's like, yeah, but whatif it doesn't come true?
(35:33):
And then did it and it's like,but what if it does?
Or but what if it doesn't?
And that's your next level.
You get the result and it's notexactly what you wanted and
it's an invisible stair thatgoes in front of you and you
just get a step on it.
Cool, that's awesome.
It didn't work out for you.
What's next?
(35:53):
Let's go.
What if it's something evenbetter?
Melissa (35:56):
I love that.
I think there's such an idea oflike certainty is an illusion
anyway, nothing is right.
I remember when I was leavingcorporate and my husband was
like, but that's so safe andsecure.
I was like how I've survivedfive massive layoffs?
Like every company I've workedfor has been acquired or sold or
whatever.
I'm like there's no securityhere.
(36:18):
All of it's an illusion and Ithink where we get tripped up is
our specific idea of how it'ssupposed to happen.
Right, like I have to take itto the kids is like two moms
recently in my sphere that hadchildren at 43, countless women
at 41.
I've had women who froze theireggs, didn't use them.
Froze their eggs, did use them,decided to be a mom on their
(36:39):
own, met a partner during theprocess of that that supported
them, had kids on their own,never met a partner.
I mean there are a million waysthat this can happen.
Right, if we're just speakingto this and that's life.
Right, like we think thisoutcome, this vision, this very
specific way and just you'vebeen coaching me.
I mean we all need coachingthrough this right, like
(37:01):
releasing attachment to the veryspecificity of it and making
room for the magic.
You know, I talked to my coachthe other day.
She was like the only thinghere that's wrong is your
expectations.
Everything's going exactly asit's supposed to go, but except
your expectations for what youthought it was supposed to be,
and I'm like, yeah, so it's ourexpectations and the illusion of
(37:23):
certainty.
I think that is so tripped up,but I love the visual of what if
it's exactly how it's supposedto be, and the next thing that
happens is your invisible starethat you get to step on and it
takes you to where you'reactually supposed to be going,
absolutely.
Jill Heiman (37:38):
Well, here's something that's coming in.
I teach on this for our logical, loving brain to come in, and
it's what I call the creationprocess, and it's two different
teachings that I have meldedtogether from like what I've
seen over the years.
So it's a practice by MaryMorrissey and then Robert Fritz,
so I've combined them and it'ssuper easy for our brain to grab
onto.
So this way, when you're in thecreation of the vision, you can
(38:01):
kind of like, oh cool, okay,I'm in this step.
Our brain just kind of likessteps, you know.
So it's our thoughts.
We all know the law of cause andeffects, right, so it kind of
plays on that.
But, like, our thoughts causeour feelings, our feelings cause
our actions, our actions causeour results.
We've all probably heard this.
Right, look at our results,track it back to our thoughts.
(38:22):
Well, the additional piece hereis our results.
There's like time delays thathappen in here, and this is
where I see so many peoplegetting tripped in their visions
and not moving forward or notseeing results fast enough, and
then they just like kill thedream altogether.
So what happens is we get ourresults.
We now create a definition ofthat result.
(38:44):
This is most often unconscious.
We're creating a definition ofwhat this result means to us,
and then that is directlyaffecting our momentum forward
into the next step.
Jessica (38:55):
Yes.
Jill Heiman (38:56):
Yup, and the two time delays happen in the
thoughts and feelings phase.
We get tripped on a hamsterwheel of thoughts, feelings,
thoughts, feelings, thoughts,feelings, analysis, paralysis,
whatever you want to call itright Practical parameters.
You're literally keepingyourself in this should oh my
God, feeling based, and you'renot even moving forward on
(39:16):
actions.
That's the first time delay,and the second one is there's
going to be a time delay betweenwhen you take action and when
you actually are seeing theresult.
Now, this is the place that Isee most people.
It's like the death dream trap.
You don't see your results fastenough, so you jump off ship.
Right, if I would have jumpedoff ship, I probably would not
(39:38):
be an author right now.
You know what I'm saying If Iwould have like, dumped that
vision on the street.
But visions come to your heart.
For you, it's a uniquefrequency for you to birth,
right.
Like you, two ladies, no oneelse could birth this podcast,
because it's your twofrequencies coming together to
create what is this amazingsauce of a place for people to
(40:00):
find themselves.
Melissa (40:00):
Thank you.
Well, I talk a lot about, likeharvesting.
You know, what do you thinkabout planting anything?
It's the obvious analogy, and Iknow we've all heard it the day
you plant the seed is not theday you pick the fruit.
Right, and I taught a lot aboutthis and I have to tell myself
this pretty much daily becauseI've been talking to Jessica and
some other folks.
I feel like I'm in a hurry,like I want it now, you know,
especially when you havesomething that's so just like
(40:21):
this exciting and it's exciting.
You're like I want it to be realnow.
It's very hard to be patient,but I always taught in beauty
counter it was almost like a sixto nine month lag of action and
results.
In that scenario and that wassomething that we saw over and
over again I was like when youstart a conversation or you
start showing up, whateveryou're doing now is probably
(40:42):
gonna come to fruition laterthis year and at least six
months.
So even to set the expectationof, like you're planting the
seed today, you can harvest itwhen it's time, in like a year
from now.
Right, but we need to bereminded of that, especially
with people who are hungry forsomething, who have this drive
for more, who love achieving.
It's very hard to be patient,as we've talked a lot about.
Jill Heiman (41:06):
Well, yeah, and I love you brought this up because
you get to track your ROI withvision creation, right, it takes
me about three months.
Typically is what I have foundfor, like certain things.
My clip is about three monthsbefore then it will, so you can
track yourself too, like trackyour creation process, because
what a beautiful share.
Like you saw over time tracking, it's gonna be six to nine
(41:28):
months.
Like how does that land in yourbody Like cool.
I know this is probably gonnabe a three to four month before
I see results on this one.
Melissa (41:37):
It's spacious, it's just a beautiful.
There's the breathing room.
I mean I need to chill out.
We need to chill out.
We're craving the spaciousnessin the process.
Well, it's the social mediatech.
Jill Heiman (41:47):
It's the world that we're in now, like we can get
everything in one second flat,but like Changing our
relationship to time Feed onearth, like go find yourself in
a forest, yeah, come to themountains.
Melissa (41:59):
Everyone's invited.
I know we need to just go drownourselves in nature and we
think it's like.
Our dreams are like in a primenow Ordering status of like.
If I pick it now, then it'll behere by bedtime, which is
lovely sometimes.
The more connected to bring itback to a lot of this work that
we do, that's very soulgenerated the more connected it
is to like your true souljourney and your heart centered,
(42:22):
whatever if it's like a body ofwork, for example the patients
and nurturing it requires, it'sthe becoming.
That is the point and there'sno sent thing for that.
And that's very uncomfortablebecause it's usually brand new
when you start to do it and wedon't have anything familiar to
relate it to, except for otherpeople that are maybe a little
(42:42):
further along in the journeythat we can see, but outside of
that it's very unfamiliar.
Jill Heiman (42:47):
So it's not really a question.
I like that you say that.
Yeah well, you cannot createthat in which you are not
willing to become Period.
That's factual for me, and oneof the questions you asked
earlier.
It's like just find thecommunity that feels good to you
.
Like find a community.
(43:07):
So when you're in the quoteunquote realms of the darkness,
where you're snot nosingyourself in the closet like you
have a sister, it does make it aprocess that isn't as
non-neutral that way.
Jessica (43:25):
Yeah, and the last thing I just wanted to
acknowledge was you saidsomething that I thought was
really beautiful around thebrain and how to use the brain,
because I think many of us liveour lives making decisions from
a mental place, but what I thinkyou're communicating is that we
live from the heart and thenthe brain actually is there to
serve the heart.
Like you can build a logicalprocess, a structure around the
(43:49):
desires of your heart in orderto help bring it into the world,
and then the brain has to kindof step back Right and stop
trying to get so involved in thetimelines and how fast it
should happen and how exactly itshould happen and how exactly
it should look like.
Trust your body, trust yourheart, trust your desire.
Use your brain to serve that,and you said it so well, that's
(44:14):
exactly what I was saying.
Melissa (44:17):
This Jessica's superpower.
It's something that's really toarticulate concisely.
Jessica (44:22):
I think this was such a beautiful conversation.
I think this is gonna be sohelpful for so many people.
You really have such a giftwith words and articulating
really big concepts in such aclear and powerful way, and I'm
really grateful that you sharedyour expertise and your wisdom
and life experience with us.
Jill Heiman (44:43):
You know, ladies, I haven't shared the whole, the
pinpoints of the journey, so I'mhopeful that the light shining
on my actual path right of likedang well, this is what I went
up against.
This is what I went up against,but it just like brings some
normality to this whole journeythat is life.
Jessica (45:04):
So how can people work with you?
Jill Heiman (45:06):
Oh goodness, yes, if anything that I'm saying is
vibrating with your soul, pleasereach out.
I love connecting.
You can find me on the socials,at Awake Journey, and you can
also come join our community atAwakeJourneycom backslash.
Join community.
That's how you can get a holdof me and I would love to invite
(45:29):
anyone that's out there andmaybe you hold retreats.
You have a big vision that youwant to host a retreat.
I would love to support you inthis vision, because my big
vision that has landed me on topof a mountain that's nearly 20
acres outside of Asheville,north Carolina, in this
beautiful sanctuary house with asaltwater pool and she has this
(45:51):
amazing fire pit.
This is the year for her to beopened to retreats.
So if you're hosting one, youcan also reach out to me and it
would be my greatest honor tosupport you and this vision of
holding and hosting humans totheir highest evolution.
Melissa (46:11):
I'm sold.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here, jill.
You're always such acontribution and I do love your
willingness to go there on thewhole messy journey that it is
to become who you are, and I'mjust very grateful for your
friendship, very grateful foryour presence in my life, and I
know, with added doubt, thatthis conversation is already
(46:35):
such a gift, because we get tostart talking about all the
things that we think we have toshove down, and you gave us such
permission to not do that.
So, thank you.
Jill Heiman (46:47):
Yeah, thank you for this space.
Thank you, Jill.
If you enjoy this episode, we would love it if you
would leave us a review, giveus a follow or a like and share
it with your friends.
Thanks, rebels.
Melissa (00:11):
To even question what you've been told is true is
incredibly courageous.
It doesn't always feel likecourage.
What looks like courage toother people, for me it feels
like survival.
This is our personal medicine.
If I'm surrounded by thinkers,by lovers, by passion, by
integrity, then I really dothink that I know who I am.
There is a piece that isindescribable when you're being
(00:33):
who you are and you're livingyour purpose Not going to come
to the end of my life and belike I didn't live the life I
was meant to live- Can I be socomfortable in the unknown and
so comfortable in thatuncertainty that every version
of it is going to be okay?
This is the Inner Rebel podcast.
Jessica (00:58):
Hey rebels, in our conversation today, we do talk
about sensitive and adultsubject matter.
We mentioned sexuality and aninstance of sexual assault, and
there is some explicit language.
We know this may trigger somepeople, so please use your
discretion and take care ofyourself today.
Melissa (01:14):
Welcome rebels to the Inner Rebel podcast.
Hello Jessica, hello Jill,hello ladies, this is such a
highlight of my week.
We have Jill Hyman here with ustoday and Jill gosh.
When I was getting ready forthis interview, I was looking
back over our journey and I knowI interviewed you years ago
(01:34):
when I first started to do this,in a way less professional
fashion, if you will.
I'm really excited to talkagain because life has shifted a
lot, as it does, over the lastseveral years.
Before we dive in, I'm going toshare a little bit about who
you are.
Jill Hyman is the founder ofAwake Journey, a safe haven for
Powerhouse, powerpower house.
(01:57):
I love that Powerhouse women tocreate their dreams into
reality by flowing fromoverdrive into purpose driven,
which we talk a lot about onhere.
Jill is a vision coach, mindsetmentor, bestselling author and
intuitive guide that currentlyresides among the mountains
outside of Asheville, northCarolina, at her retreat
(02:18):
sanctuary, the Nest, which weall need to go to, oh wow.
Yeah, we'll just put it outthere that we'll all be there
one day together and she runs avisionary sisterhood through her
Business Awake Journey, sowelcome Welcome to the Inner
Rebel podcast Hello Jessica,Hello Jill, so nice to meet you.
Jessica (02:37):
Thank you for joining us today I'm squeezing you.
Jill Heiman (02:40):
Oh, I'm so excited.
Melissa (02:42):
We spend zero time on the surface, we jump into the
deep end immediately which.
I know you like to exist theretoo.
I enjoy cannonballs.
Yeah, you will be cannonballingfrom the get go.
Inner Rebel is all about reallyembracing your authenticity and
defining the expectations thatwere put on you from all of the
external influences that we havein life.
(03:03):
So we're curious how do youidentify as who you are, and how
is that different than who youwere taught you were supposed to
be or who you thought youshould be?
Jill Heiman (03:14):
Yeah, it's such a big question.
I know I am so thrilled to behere because this is powerful
work that Inner Rebel and youtwo ladies are bringing forward,
and for me it's about it's beencoming to a place of embodiment
of my unique frequency that Ioperate in.
(03:35):
I like to say it's a sacredunion or sacred marriage of my
fiery action and my watery flowand being able to find that
marriage and myself of now wefucking go on for this one.
We moving forward.
I'm taking all of my strategic,logical brain power.
We're going to get it, maximizeresults, while also like, hold
(04:01):
on, hold on, sweet girl, we needto take a bath, we need some
epsom salt, go get yourself amassage.
It's been an ever evolvingdance in those two energies.
Who I thought that I was goingto be?
I think it's an interestingquestion because I always had
(04:23):
this internal thing pinballinginside me of like there has to
be more than life.
There has to be more than life,there has to be.
I literally heard this onrepeat from a very young age,
whether it was because my soulchose this human experience and
I was born in the amazing stateof Kansas and although the
state's amazing, it issurrounded and it's in the shape
(04:46):
of a box.
Right yeah, and it's not beyondme.
All of the work that I've done,of like of course, my journey
has been one of getting real faroutside of this box and into
the sphere that most suits me.
That's been my journey ofowning my inner rebel.
Jessica (05:09):
I love it.
Can you describe a little bitof what that box was growing up
for you?
Melissa (05:15):
outside of, like actual Kansas.
But I do love that vision Likeyou're literally born in a box.
Jill Heiman (05:22):
Something else.
My mother's womb was not a box.
That was a beautiful littlespace but, like anyone else, had
a lot of shoulds placed on me.
I was an athlete, I played allthe sports and did all of that
which we've all heard about.
My journey has been one ofreally learning how to play in
(05:42):
the darkness, and I've gotten aheck of a lot of experiences
that afforded me the opportunityto really meet myself in the
dark spaces, given experiencesthat I found myself in some not
so welcoming, if you will.
(06:02):
And so it was a lot of my bodyinforming me too, without me
knowing.
My body was informing me.
Depression for well over adecade got on medication, for it
was just really having a lot ofanxiety and panic attacks.
I remember one time I went toLas Vegas right and my 20s was
parting my ass off let's be realand trying to numb things out.
(06:26):
I remember in this hotel space,I didn't know what was
happening to me.
I'm supposed to be having fun,fun trip with my girlfriends.
I've never talked about thestory.
I find myself in the hallway atone point and then I'm like
literally in the bathtub havinga onset panic attack.
My friend doesn't know what todo I have alcohol pulsing in my
system, which only aids thatright Panic attack.
(06:49):
It's only aiding the anxiety,and that lingered on for several
years until I was actually ableto go into the darkness and
begin my personal healing ofself of these experiences that I
had at a young age.
Melissa (07:05):
Did you know that it was a panic attack?
Because I had panic attacks incollege and I called an
ambulance because I thought Iwas having a heart attack.
I had no idea what it was.
So I'm curious was that yourfirst one, and did you know what
was happening?
Jill Heiman (07:18):
Yeah, I got really familiar with the difference
between anxiety attack and apanic attack, which I'm not like
over here giving myself aribbon for At that time I didn't
know what it was, so it waslike heart pulsing really
quickly.
Am I coming down from lots ofalcohol, right, like it doesn't
help if you're out partying.
But then when I stepped awayfrom that lifestyle of drinking
(07:40):
and partying and then it wasstill continuing, I like to call
anxiety like a snowball effectSomething will happen that then
it builds on.
Other things are happening andit's build on, build on, build
on, whereas at least for me, apanic attack is an immediate
trigger, that is, my body'sresponding in a way that is like
this isn't welcome, oh my gosh,like what's going on.
(08:01):
And it's been a real deeppractice of lots of modalities
to support my nervous system.
Melissa (08:07):
So many modalities.
Jessica (08:09):
I'm really curious, because I know a lot of people
who struggle with anxiety whatis your relationship with
anxiety now, and what kind ofmessenger do you think anxiety
is for you, about what's goingon in you?
Jill Heiman (08:25):
Maybe I can start to feel that vibration when I'm
in a place of overwhelm, whichnow I'm aware, whatever the
overwhelm might be, orspecifically living in a period
of unknown which is likeconstant for me at this stage.
I've reprogrammed myself verywell and I've supported my
(08:45):
nervous system to be able towork through it.
I think it takes a lot of selfpractice.
Everything for me, stems backto my thoughts.
I can specifically know whatfrequency I'm vibrating at my
body level.
If I think about okay, here'smy thought patterns, of course
anxiety is going to come upbecause I'm literally going
through my to-do list at a onemillion rate clip with no
(09:09):
solution, and then I'm allowingthat to repeat and what happens
is that's only going to expand,because that's the law of
attraction no matter what thethought is, it will expand.
It could be a negative frequency.
I'm sitting here like F I gotthis do, I got this, do this do
and I got to hang out with myman.
Oh shit, self care, right, okay, then I'm like amplifying
(09:31):
because I'm attracting that in.
So for me it's been a realconscious mastering my mind
tenfold every day.
Jessica (09:40):
I really want to come back to mastering your mind, but
I just want to follow up withthe question around the panic
attack, because you mentionedthat comes from a specific
trigger.
Can you speak to that messengerwhen your body goes into panic?
Jill Heiman (09:53):
Panic for me is when she's not safe.
She is my body.
When my body's not safe, thenthere's a panic.
So at 19, I'll share witheveryone.
I got really curious and I waslike, let's have this threesome
with these two guys Cool, Itrusted them.
I was at a college party.
I went by myself From there, Iwas putting my clothes on and,
(10:14):
in walks, five men pull theirpants down, put condoms on and
sit on the bed.
And so at 19, when I talk aboutbeing put in a box, I've done
an immense amount of work to beable to show up in this space of
energetic neutral, to be ableto share this story.
But the whole box analogy is,on a whole high level, scope for
(10:37):
me, right Of wow.
And then this experience I'mliterally locked in a room that
is a box and I can't get out.
This was my deepest level ofhealing.
That then unlocked so manythings because I promised myself
, when I got out of that roomand then I stepped on that porch
, that I would never talk aboutit again and, funnily enough, it
(11:00):
has kind of become.
I think the year of 2019 was myyear of.
I did a lot of podcasts andthis is all I talked about was
offering healing space for womenthat have been sexually
assaulted or abused in anymanner.
So my body related safety waspretty much thrown out the
window.
And then I can date back toother times as all of you out
(11:21):
there listening and I'm sureboth of you right Many times, as
young women don't be emotionalShhh, silent, right, we've all
heard those things.
So then that was already I'mnot safe.
But then a really big teatrauma event that I got to work
through to recalibrate whatsafety is in my body.
Jessica (11:39):
Thank you for sharing that.
I think that's going to help alot of people.
When you come out of asignificantly traumatic event
and you go I am never going totalk about this again your body
is still talking to you about it.
That's the sense that I getaround the panic attack, and so
you can't ignore that your bodyis continuing to have that
(12:01):
conversation, even if you're nothaving it with anyone around
you.
So what was that conversationlike for you inside of yourself,
and what was the definingmoment or the tipping point
where you decided to get healing?
Jill Heiman (12:16):
Thank you for pulling that back together,
because that is the intention ofsharing that story.
This was the anchoring point ofwhere all the depression came
from throughout my 20s 10 plusyears of depression.
Here's this moment, the panicattacks.
Here's this moment.
Anytime I'm not feeling safe.
Now there were otherexperiences in my 20s that, like
(12:37):
this is a safe space and I'mjust going to blast it all open,
right, so people can see thejourney and you can hear I don't
think people share the fullscope of it and it's like life
sometimes is just life and likethis is what it was.
But like at 19 had thatoccurrence, 23,.
I was held at gunpoint, walkinghome by myself, holy shit.
(13:00):
So then it was.
Then my body again the safety.
I crumble on the ground when Isay like I've dealt and delve
into the darkness.
It's a safe place for me atthis juncture.
There are some other things inmy 20s, other occurrences that I
really got challenged on, andso I'm dealing with this
depression.
(13:20):
Panic attacks are coming in.
I think I was 25 when I got onmedication because I made a
really big heart decision tosupport raising this newborn
child while her mother washandcuffed to the bed.
She was a fugitive, so I chosea relation.
This is some stuff.
This is some life stuff.
(13:40):
All of this was showing up inmy body and I wasn't able to
meet it.
So then I'm creatingreoccurring patterns of not
being safe.
The finale was at 28.
My wedding was called off threemonths before.
Amen.
I had a memorial.
I loo for this man that calledit off.
(14:01):
I am very, forever grateful tohim.
But that was my rock bottom.
I had moved in the basement,moved from Florida back to
Kansas, moved in the basementwith my parents for a week,
realized I couldn't do thisThankfully had quite a bit of
saving, saved up and then movedinto my own place.
I was not well when myhoneymoon was supposed to be.
(14:24):
I ended up going to Mexico witha friend and just really was
heavily turning to alcohol andheavily turning to a place of
back to my body, as like thisobject, which never felt good,
but that was my place of power.
That's how I knew I had power.
Jessica (14:45):
Can you explain that a little bit With that feeling of
power.
Jill Heiman (14:49):
You walk into a room, you walk into a club, mind
you, I'm 28.
This is a long time ago.
It was this sense of I can ownthe room by the sheer sense of
my body, not the essence of me,not this embodiment of who I am,
but just my sexuality will getme whatever I want.
(15:11):
I was at a place of how do Ieven communicate?
I couldn't communicate myemotions, let alone even say
what emotion it was that I waseven feeling in a moment From
here.
It was a beautiful relationshipthat I found myself in.
I will call this this beautifulman and angel on earth of some
(15:34):
sense, because he was able tosee me after this unfolding.
I was in a depression when, Ithink, we were together for two
years.
He just was able to just be myfriend.
That's really ultimately all.
It was like deepest level offriendship.
I could somewhat begin to feelsafe in this relationship with a
(15:59):
man.
I felt supported From here.
He would keep like he knew Iwas depressed, Like I was not
who I should be, because I had alot of unhealed stuff and my
body was not okay.
And so it was a Joe Roganpodcast with Christine Hasler
(16:22):
and he's listening to Joe Roganand he's like I really think
that you should listen to thispodcast.
I don't know like he's tryinganything.
What about this book?
What if you?
You know, da, da, da, da, da.
And I'm like, okay, I rememberthe day y'all I take my dog on a
walk, it's a fall day in Kansascity and there's leaves, I can
hear them crunching, and I'mlistening to this podcast and
(16:45):
for the first time in my life, Iwas like, yes, I was just
nodding, yes, yes to everythingthat this woman was saying.
What was being talked about?
I have no idea, I can'tremember, but it was something.
Melissa (17:00):
You just remembered that.
You remember that, yes.
Jessica (17:03):
What did it awaken in you?
Jill Heiman (17:05):
listening to it, it was like someone gets me, for
finally someone freaking gets me.
And so she was offering awomen's retreat in California.
Literally gave no location youlike, just fly in, you get
bussed up to this old school,some church building I mean I
(17:25):
can't even tell y'all, you're upin the mountains.
No service on these bedswallpaper.
I mean it was just funny.
But I said yes to that.
I'm like I don't know what thisis.
I don't know where I'm evengoing, but I'm gonna go.
It was March 10th, 2017, iswhen I finally said yes, and
that was the no looking back oflike really finally becoming the
(17:49):
author of my life.
Jessica (17:52):
Before we get into this new phase of life, which I'm
excited to learn about.
I love how, right off the top,you talked about your
relationship with darkness, andyou're not the first powerful
healer that I've met who hasexpressed that.
Life has brought them into thedarkness over and over again.
I spent many years trying to dohealing and I think I was
(18:14):
really afraid to go into thedarkness because I thought that
the darkness would.
You talked about the law ofattraction.
I thought the darkness wouldjust keep bringing more of that
to me and that I had to get intopositivity.
I had to be in the positivemindset.
I think a lot that is sold asactually spiritual bypass and it
was once I actually because oflife circumstances, that I had
(18:37):
no choice but to dive in that.
That is where the healinghappened and the transformation
happened, and I do think that'ssuch an important thing for
people who are listening in.
You are healing when you feellike you are having to just look
at the hardest parts ofyourself and find a way to
alchemize, that transmute andmove through.
That is where you actually meetyourself.
So can we just talk for amoment about that?
Jill Heiman (19:02):
Yeah, there's a lot out there.
We are in a time of humanconsciousness rapidly rising and
, in this, up leveling and somuch tech.
Like you can receive anythingthat you want in a matter of
seconds.
It takes the highest level ofdevotion, not dedication.
Devotion to you, choosing whatfeels good for you.
(19:27):
There's a lot of people callingthemselves healers, teachers.
I'm very careful with the wordhealer, that's not my job.
Like I do my work, I healmyself and in this I fully trust
that it is exuding an energythat is offering permission for
the next woman to go meetherself and play with herself.
(19:51):
In the dark.
However, that looks For me thelight.
It just feels so much warmer.
The sun is warmer because I'vewalked through that.
I've been in the cold, I'vebeen in my closet, I've raged in
my pillow, I've fought withmyself in front of a mirror,
like I've let all of the piecesof me that are like you're
fucking not worth it, you'refucking piece of shit, who are
(20:14):
you?
You think you're gonna do this,bitch, please.
Those are the pieces of me thatare raw, that I sit with and
have really met face to face inthe mirror.
No one's gonna see that, causeit's me in devotion to, like,
making sure I'm good and I'msafe and I'm okay, you know.
Melissa (20:33):
Yeah, thank you for sharing all of that, because
it's what you're visible now.
You know you're online, you'redoing live videos.
If you look on your LinkedInprofile, you've got a really
wonderful resume.
Your life looks great, you'vehad success and People watching
you and I know you're very openabout your story.
But I really want to reflectback how much I appreciate your
(20:57):
authenticity, sharing thejourney, because that's what
happens.
We look at someone and we'relike, wow, look at them and
you're like, yeah, no, but I sayI've been like calling myself a
piece of shit in the mirror fora couple decades, but now I'm
like out here, you know, but Ilove you, saying this is a
devotion to me and this is mechoosing what feels good with
(21:17):
discernment.
Jessica (21:18):
Mm-hmm, and we don't have to stay in the darkness.
I don't want to scare ouraudience that healing is just
darkness.
That's not what I mean.
It's that we do have to grieve.
Right, we're looking intotrauma that we haven't resolved
or haven't made peace with, sothere's parts of it that can
feel really hard and ugly anddifficult, but also there's joy
(21:40):
in it.
There's also a lot of beauty init, what you just said.
There is a softness that youcan have, and it's not a place
you stay forever.
Jill Heiman (21:48):
I Just want that to be clear as well.
The thing is, is it's aprogramming that we are assuming
the darkness is quote-unquotebad, that we're assuming it's
gonna be this?
Yeah, horrifying experience.
That's all part of theprogramming.
I could meet parts of darknessevery day and it just feels
different now because I've gonethere.
And how would it feel if yourdarkness is actually a place of
(22:11):
neutrality?
Mm-hmm, I know Melissa and Ihave had the same teacher Tracy
hard word you got to have therupture to have the rise.
How can I play in that rupturefor, however long it takes,
while expanding myself, to be inthis most abundant frequency,
for all my desires to attract tome, while I'm playing in the
rupture, like Personally, that'sthe journey I'm in, right now.
Melissa (22:34):
Yeah, yeah, tracy came on the podcast.
So, tracy, our listeners haveheard her and it's whoo a
profoundly impactfulconversation.
Truthfully, as you would expectwith Tracy, we spoke to that
Learning how to feel safe inyour body, to be able to I don't
think she used the language ofrupture and rapture in that
podcast per se but to be able tohold it in your body.
(22:55):
And I know we talked about lasttime of how powerful it is when
you can bring your whole selfto every Circumstance, wherever
you are.
You know you recently.
When did you leave corporate?
How long has it been now?
Almost a year.
Jill Heiman (23:07):
Happy almost your anniversary, Thank you.
I may still play in the space.
You know I love building brands, so one never knows well, and I
like that.
Melissa (23:16):
You even say I may go back right, because it's not
about this one Structure is bador good, it's how do I feel when
I'm showing up there?
Who am I being when I show upthere?
Am I able to bring my wholeself?
So how have you been able tobring your whole self while
still being in Traditionalstructures that don't
necessarily support that,because I know that's a big part
of how you support women.
(23:37):
So how have you been able to dothat?
Jill Heiman (23:39):
Thank you for asking that.
Yeah, so this is what I call anembodied circle self.
So every single piece of us hasbeen met, has been loved, has
been given compassion, and nowyou are the embodiment of you,
like Authentically you, and so Ihave been working with this for
(23:59):
five years and Actually I'mexcited.
It's almost a launch time forthe world to see my signature
method behind it all.
I played with it in corporatespace, so what better way to
test a embodiment and really seehow is this, how does this feel
?
So for three years, when I wasin one of the fastest growing
(24:21):
Brands and the wellness space, Iwas in sales when I was like,
let's play with this and thiscorporate realm.
Many times I was meeting myselflike, oh you safe, are you good
, are you good?
And then it just got to a pointwhere there was no other safety
than me being myself.
Like that was how I was feelingsafe and what happened is I
would be invited to do groupMeditations or our CEO would be
(24:46):
like, ah Jill, this is yourthing.
Like can you lead us?
And XYZ, whatever it would be,and like big team sales meetings
and so, without me needing tosay a lot, just showing up as I
am and Taking on this shift inmy leadership and my show up.
It's opening doors forOpportunities is what it does.
(25:06):
So what I've witnessed is youare this embodiment of all
pieces of you, which I callcircle self.
From here you then are able toattract out warp speed, and I've
seen this time to time again.
And so then, once we get intothe embodiment place, I love
playing in strategy.
I can play with this all daylong.
But I don't suggest strategyuntil you're in the embodiment,
(25:27):
because then your strategy isgoing to be in more of an
alignment place.
But once you're whole, you'rein this whole self.
It's Unapologetic.
We as women say sorry way toomany times for really silly
things.
If you're very conscious andaware, catch how many times you
might just be like, oh, I'msorry.
It's being in that place ofowning your know as much as you
(25:47):
give away your yeses right.
Once you've been able to meetall of the pieces of you, so
they all get a have a voice, noone's feeling left out, no part
of you, no part of yourexperience is feeling left out,
then you really begin to be ableto feel in your body.
This is a no, this is a yes,and you get a state it from such
a strength, or it's just likeno well, I think it's important
(26:09):
to speak to the iterativeprocess that this is right.
Melissa (26:13):
Yeah like none of us are sitting here, like we're
done.
We've checked all the boxes,we've met all the places.
We're on this journey ourentire lives and it's such an
iterative process ofestablishing safety in all these
little moments.
And so we talked about thedarkness, but also the process
of just these little baby steps.
So I think it's important topoint out because I wanted to
feel achievable, I wanted tofeel attainable for people that
(26:35):
it's like I don't want to go tothat spot.
You know, I don't know what'sone tiny little thing you can do
today.
That's right.
Jessica (26:41):
You know, I also want to bring it back to the mindset
piece that you mentioned earlier, because I know that you work
with mindset as a coach and Ithink people show up in your
life at the right moments inthis Conversation feels very
kismet to me, and I can't tellyou how many people I've been
talking to lately who have said,well, I'm at this age, so it's
never gonna happen to me.
Whatever you know it is or itdidn't happen in one very
(27:04):
specific way that I expected itto happen, so it's never gonna
happen.
But I've also had my heartbroken in my life when certain
dreams didn't come to fruition,so I can understand that.
There's this wanting to protectyourself right from getting
your hopes up or being pragmaticand practical About realistic
things that happen as you age orwhatever.
I'm curious what is thatbalance to strike?
What is that balance betweengetting swept up in fantasy and
(27:28):
dreams, or even vision, and thenlearning how to work with the
scope of reality?
Where does pragmatism andpracticality actually have its
place?
And how do we, when we're inthese rigid thought patterns,
start to open up to what reallycould happen, even if we've
never seen it happen before?
Jill Heiman (27:47):
I might be the wrong one to talk about
practicality with.
I don't play in that I don'tplay.
It's very deep, generationalprogramming, the thing with
practicality for me and my body.
It recognizes it as settling.
So if I am to look atcircumstances or anything going
on around me and being okay, ifit's not feeling good, then
(28:11):
that's me settling.
I have a commitment with methat when I'm on my deathbed
taking my last breath, that Iwill have zero regrets, that I
will have said, yeah, did that,did that, did that, did that.
That is the place that I livein.
Now, that is not the place thateveryone lives in, and so a
(28:32):
powerful question is well, whatif?
What if?
Some people will refuse to gothere?
And when a person is in thatdeep of a commitment, they're
just committed.
They're committed to keeping ithow it is and they're committed
to having their scope of theirthought process on their lack.
Whether they see it or not,it's a commitment to lack.
(28:54):
I want more money, I want oh,this is just how this is.
There's no way I don't havethat on my resume.
I can't.
There's no way I can get thisjob that I really want because
I've spent 20 years doing XYZ.
That's what you believe, thenthat's what you believe, you're
committed to that belief, and soit's going to take a person
(29:14):
making a commitment to switchthe old beliefs and their deep
commitment to that.
That then they can actually becoachable.
But if you don't want it andyou want to stay in the realm,
that is just like falling suitto what is then I allow that
person to be in that placebecause I've talked to lots of
(29:34):
people.
I hope you come back whenyou're in a place of being open
to what could be.
I work with a lot of women andthis is stuff that a lot of
people would be like.
This is impossible, likeindustry shifts people think are
impossible.
I've done it a ton of times.
I went from beverage to petfood, to managing women's only
(29:57):
gyms and then into a wellnessbrand, and then one woman had
come to me and her focus wasdata, numbers, supply and demand
, and she really desired to tapinto her creativity and be like
a creative director or somethingfor a PR firm.
This is a 360 degree shift y'all, but she was open and she was
(30:18):
willing to get into.
We got to go into the darkness,if you will, of the thought
pattern and the belief reallygets the root.
Where does it come from, sothat we can begin excavating
from there?
Simultaneously, we're playingwith your vision, so we're
allowing this frequency of yourvision to come in as you're
clearing the way, so thevibration of your vision can
(30:40):
land in your body, in this newspace that you're creating in
your body, so then you can holdthis frequency Under 12 months.
This woman literally sent me apicture and she's like new art
director for this PR firm.
I wish this, but it takes adevotion to not settling or
getting outside of whatever thepracticality game is that you
(31:04):
might be up to.
Jessica (31:05):
I totally agree with you.
The piece that I'd like toexplore with you is about, I
mean, you mentioned earlier thatyou are dancing in the unknown
a lot right now and that thereis an element of risk that is
inherent or built into pursuinga dream when you don't have a
guarantee in how it's actuallygoing to turn out.
(31:27):
And it does take a leap offaith, I think where the
practicality comes from iswanting certainty.
They want to know or have aclear idea of how things are
going to go for them.
What is it going to look likein five years from now?
And when we pursue somethingwith our heart, it just doesn't
come with that certainty.
(31:48):
But it also means it might notwork out.
Can we make peace with it notworking out?
Can we make peace with lifelooking different than we
thought it should, or assumethat it should?
So what is the space that weneed to be in inside of
ourselves?
Because I'm at an age, forexample, where children may not
(32:09):
happen.
It may not happen, it's still adream.
It's something that I reallywant in my life, but I do have a
biological clock that's tickingand I don't have a partner
right now and I don't know whatwould have to happen and how
fast it would happen in order tomake that a reality.
So can I still hold a visionfor that?
And the optimism or the hope?
(32:29):
Is it hope?
I don't know what that is, orbe open to that, but also grieve
the possibility that it may notLike.
How do you hold those twothings at the same time?
Jill Heiman (32:40):
I can play with that exact one very well, and
then that exact space sister.
So I don't play in the grievingyet there's no need to grieve
because nothing's happened.
If we want to play in thepossibility of, like, I desire a
child, as do I.
I made the decision at 35 notto freeze my eggs was a whole
(33:01):
process that I went through andhere I am now and the stage that
I'm 38 I'll be 39 this summerand I'm playing and it again.
I'm reopened it.
Okay, how does this feel now?
How do I want to go about this?
And I'll stay on the havingchildren, because I think this
is something that a lot ofindependent women that have been
(33:23):
single and I'm in partnershipnow but things are happening
later quote unquote in our lifeand for me this is everyone's
individual journey.
When I say devotion, that'struly what I mean, because your
connection to your vision isyour own.
Mine is very much a spirituallead, guidance of trusting.
(33:44):
So I have made that devotion tomyself and to God, universe,
whatever name you give it, andI've made that prayer many times
.
Started at the age of 35, whenI could start to feel this whole
like ooh, I'd be a good mom,I'd kick ass as a mom.
Mom's not be okay.
Do I desire this?
(34:05):
Ooh, I could shift generations,like, how would I be a parent?
All of these things you know.
And so I offer a prayer when itis a big, big vision that is
fully, fully unknown whetherit's having kids for me, this
now, this house that I'm livingin, that's going to be a retreat
, sanctuary, big, big vision.
There comes a point in thevision where you've got to care
(34:27):
about it enough to let it go.
I have let this go.
I hold it daily.
I hold it if I'm to have achild, if I'm blessed enough to
have a child, god, I trust thatthis will be in the best and
highest good for me and mypartner.
Right, I wanted to become anauthor.
This vision came into my fieldin 2019.
(34:48):
20, 22 became a reality.
Three years, the prayer.
I held the vision every singleday, something I call bullet
point journaling, with your I amand your plane and your vision
language, and I'm holding thisevery day.
I'm an author.
I'm an author.
However this looks, I play withthe titles.
I play with it.
So when you're talking like akid vision, I play with child's
(35:12):
names.
I play with the spirits thatare coming to me, around me.
But this is it's a devotionaldance of a prayer with a vision
is the best scope that I canshare, because, sure, there's
risk and the question that Iwould ask anytime.
Anyone's like, yeah, but whatif it doesn't come true?
(35:33):
And then did it and it's like,but what if it does?
Or but what if it doesn't?
And that's your next level.
You get the result and it's notexactly what you wanted and
it's an invisible stair thatgoes in front of you and you
just get a step on it.
Cool, that's awesome.
It didn't work out for you.
What's next?
(35:53):
Let's go.
What if it's something evenbetter?
Melissa (35:56):
I love that.
I think there's such an idea oflike certainty is an illusion
anyway, nothing is right.
I remember when I was leavingcorporate and my husband was
like, but that's so safe andsecure.
I was like how I've survivedfive massive layoffs?
Like every company I've workedfor has been acquired or sold or
whatever.
I'm like there's no securityhere.
(36:18):
All of it's an illusion and Ithink where we get tripped up is
our specific idea of how it'ssupposed to happen.
Right, like I have to take itto the kids is like two moms
recently in my sphere that hadchildren at 43, countless women
at 41.
I've had women who froze theireggs, didn't use them.
Froze their eggs, did use them,decided to be a mom on their
(36:39):
own, met a partner during theprocess of that that supported
them, had kids on their own,never met a partner.
I mean there are a million waysthat this can happen.
Right, if we're just speakingto this and that's life.
Right, like we think thisoutcome, this vision, this very
specific way and just you'vebeen coaching me.
I mean we all need coachingthrough this right, like
(37:01):
releasing attachment to the veryspecificity of it and making
room for the magic.
You know, I talked to my coachthe other day.
She was like the only thinghere that's wrong is your
expectations.
Everything's going exactly asit's supposed to go, but except
your expectations for what youthought it was supposed to be,
and I'm like, yeah, so it's ourexpectations and the illusion of
(37:23):
certainty.
I think that is so tripped up,but I love the visual of what if
it's exactly how it's supposedto be, and the next thing that
happens is your invisible starethat you get to step on and it
takes you to where you'reactually supposed to be going,
absolutely.
Jill Heiman (37:38):
Well, here's something that's coming in.
I teach on this for our logical, loving brain to come in, and
it's what I call the creationprocess, and it's two different
teachings that I have meldedtogether from like what I've
seen over the years.
So it's a practice by MaryMorrissey and then Robert Fritz,
so I've combined them and it'ssuper easy for our brain to grab
onto.
So this way, when you're in thecreation of the vision, you can
(38:01):
kind of like, oh cool, okay,I'm in this step.
Our brain just kind of likessteps, you know.
So it's our thoughts.
We all know the law of cause andeffects, right, so it kind of
plays on that.
But, like, our thoughts causeour feelings, our feelings cause
our actions, our actions causeour results.
We've all probably heard this.
Right, look at our results,track it back to our thoughts.
(38:22):
Well, the additional piece hereis our results.
There's like time delays thathappen in here, and this is
where I see so many peoplegetting tripped in their visions
and not moving forward or notseeing results fast enough, and
then they just like kill thedream altogether.
So what happens is we get ourresults.
We now create a definition ofthat result.
(38:44):
This is most often unconscious.
We're creating a definition ofwhat this result means to us,
and then that is directlyaffecting our momentum forward
into the next step.
Jessica (38:55):
Yes.
Jill Heiman (38:56):
Yup, and the two time delays happen in the
thoughts and feelings phase.
We get tripped on a hamsterwheel of thoughts, feelings,
thoughts, feelings, thoughts,feelings, analysis, paralysis,
whatever you want to call itright Practical parameters.
You're literally keepingyourself in this should oh my
God, feeling based, and you'renot even moving forward on
(39:16):
actions.
That's the first time delay,and the second one is there's
going to be a time delay betweenwhen you take action and when
you actually are seeing theresult.
Now, this is the place that Isee most people.
It's like the death dream trap.
You don't see your results fastenough, so you jump off ship.
Right, if I would have jumpedoff ship, I probably would not
(39:38):
be an author right now.
You know what I'm saying If Iwould have like, dumped that
vision on the street.
But visions come to your heart.
For you, it's a uniquefrequency for you to birth,
right.
Like you, two ladies, no oneelse could birth this podcast,
because it's your twofrequencies coming together to
create what is this amazingsauce of a place for people to
(40:00):
find themselves.
Melissa (40:00):
Thank you.
Well, I talk a lot about, likeharvesting.
You know, what do you thinkabout planting anything?
It's the obvious analogy, and Iknow we've all heard it the day
you plant the seed is not theday you pick the fruit.
Right, and I taught a lot aboutthis and I have to tell myself
this pretty much daily becauseI've been talking to Jessica and
some other folks.
I feel like I'm in a hurry,like I want it now, you know,
especially when you havesomething that's so just like
(40:21):
this exciting and it's exciting.
You're like I want it to be realnow.
It's very hard to be patient,but I always taught in beauty
counter it was almost like a sixto nine month lag of action and
results.
In that scenario and that wassomething that we saw over and
over again I was like when youstart a conversation or you
start showing up, whateveryou're doing now is probably
(40:42):
gonna come to fruition laterthis year and at least six
months.
So even to set the expectationof, like you're planting the
seed today, you can harvest itwhen it's time, in like a year
from now.
Right, but we need to bereminded of that, especially
with people who are hungry forsomething, who have this drive
for more, who love achieving.
It's very hard to be patient,as we've talked a lot about.
Jill Heiman (41:06):
Well, yeah, and I love you brought this up because
you get to track your ROI withvision creation, right, it takes
me about three months.
Typically is what I have foundfor, like certain things.
My clip is about three monthsbefore then it will, so you can
track yourself too, like trackyour creation process, because
what a beautiful share.
Like you saw over time tracking, it's gonna be six to nine
(41:28):
months.
Like how does that land in yourbody Like cool.
I know this is probably gonnabe a three to four month before
I see results on this one.
Melissa (41:37):
It's spacious, it's just a beautiful.
There's the breathing room.
I mean I need to chill out.
We need to chill out.
We're craving the spaciousnessin the process.
Well, it's the social mediatech.
Jill Heiman (41:47):
It's the world that we're in now, like we can get
everything in one second flat,but like Changing our
relationship to time Feed onearth, like go find yourself in
a forest, yeah, come to themountains.
Melissa (41:59):
Everyone's invited.
I know we need to just go drownourselves in nature and we
think it's like.
Our dreams are like in a primenow Ordering status of like.
If I pick it now, then it'll behere by bedtime, which is
lovely sometimes.
The more connected to bring itback to a lot of this work that
we do, that's very soulgenerated the more connected it
is to like your true souljourney and your heart centered,
(42:22):
whatever if it's like a body ofwork, for example the patients
and nurturing it requires, it'sthe becoming.
That is the point and there'sno sent thing for that.
And that's very uncomfortablebecause it's usually brand new
when you start to do it and wedon't have anything familiar to
relate it to, except for otherpeople that are maybe a little
(42:42):
further along in the journeythat we can see, but outside of
that it's very unfamiliar.
Jill Heiman (42:47):
So it's not really a question.
I like that you say that.
Yeah well, you cannot createthat in which you are not
willing to become Period.
That's factual for me, and oneof the questions you asked
earlier.
It's like just find thecommunity that feels good to you
.
Like find a community.
(43:07):
So when you're in the quoteunquote realms of the darkness,
where you're snot nosingyourself in the closet like you
have a sister, it does make it aprocess that isn't as
non-neutral that way.
Jessica (43:25):
Yeah, and the last thing I just wanted to
acknowledge was you saidsomething that I thought was
really beautiful around thebrain and how to use the brain,
because I think many of us liveour lives making decisions from
a mental place, but what I thinkyou're communicating is that we
live from the heart and thenthe brain actually is there to
serve the heart.
Like you can build a logicalprocess, a structure around the
(43:49):
desires of your heart in orderto help bring it into the world,
and then the brain has to kindof step back Right and stop
trying to get so involved in thetimelines and how fast it
should happen and how exactly itshould happen and how exactly
it should look like.
Trust your body, trust yourheart, trust your desire.
Use your brain to serve that,and you said it so well, that's
(44:14):
exactly what I was saying.
Melissa (44:17):
This Jessica's superpower.
It's something that's really toarticulate concisely.
Jessica (44:22):
I think this was such a beautiful conversation.
I think this is gonna be sohelpful for so many people.
You really have such a giftwith words and articulating
really big concepts in such aclear and powerful way, and I'm
really grateful that you sharedyour expertise and your wisdom
and life experience with us.
Jill Heiman (44:43):
You know, ladies, I haven't shared the whole, the
pinpoints of the journey, so I'mhopeful that the light shining
on my actual path right of likedang well, this is what I went
up against.
This is what I went up against,but it just like brings some
normality to this whole journeythat is life.
Jessica (45:04):
So how can people work with you?
Jill Heiman (45:06):
Oh goodness, yes, if anything that I'm saying is
vibrating with your soul, pleasereach out.
I love connecting.
You can find me on the socials,at Awake Journey, and you can
also come join our community atAwakeJourneycom backslash.
Join community.
That's how you can get a holdof me and I would love to invite
(45:29):
anyone that's out there andmaybe you hold retreats.
You have a big vision that youwant to host a retreat.
I would love to support you inthis vision, because my big
vision that has landed me on topof a mountain that's nearly 20
acres outside of Asheville,north Carolina, in this
beautiful sanctuary house with asaltwater pool and she has this
(45:51):
amazing fire pit.
This is the year for her to beopened to retreats.
So if you're hosting one, youcan also reach out to me and it
would be my greatest honor tosupport you and this vision of
holding and hosting humans totheir highest evolution.
Melissa (46:11):
I'm sold.
Well, thank you so much forbeing here, jill.
You're always such acontribution and I do love your
willingness to go there on thewhole messy journey that it is
to become who you are, and I'mjust very grateful for your
friendship, very grateful foryour presence in my life, and I
know, with added doubt, thatthis conversation is already
(46:35):
such a gift, because we get tostart talking about all the
things that we think we have toshove down, and you gave us such
permission to not do that.
So, thank you.
Jill Heiman (46:47):
Yeah, thank you for this space.
Thank you, Jill.
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