188: Choosing Joy: How Intention, Presence, and Gratitude Transform Your Life with Natalie King

Episode Transcript
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(00:18):
Well, hello and welcome back.
My name is MaryAnn\ Walker andI'm the life coach that helps
highly sensitive people learnhow to set boundaries, take up
space, and just experience morejoy in their day-to-day life.
And because of that, I am soexcited to introduce to you
today Natalie King.
Natalie King is a Britishtransformational coach, speaker,
and podcast host that isdedicated to helping women

(00:39):
embrace their authenticity andstep more fully into their one
precious life.
And in fact, that is the titleof her podcast, one Precious
Life.
I've thoroughly enjoyed both herpodcast and her social media.
So.
Come and check her out.
But today we're talking abouthow to experience more joy,
especially when life is hard,especially when so much is going
on in the world.
It was very interesting, as sheand I were chatting, she shared

(01:01):
that allowing yourself toexperience more joy is actually
one of the top five regrets ofthe dying.
So I know that this is a veryimportant topic to be discussing
right now.
It's especially timely with itbeing around the holidays and
Thanksgiving here in the States.
So I just am so grateful forNatalie for this conversation,
and I hope that you enjoy.

MaryAnn Walker (01:20):
I am so excited for this conversation today,
Natalie, thank you so much foragreeing to collaborate with me.

Natalie King (01:26):
Oh, it's my pleasure.
And thank you for agreeing toobecause all day to day.
I've known that this is where mydiary is, like a highlight.
I've been really looking forwardto this conversation about joy.
I think we're gonna inspire eachother and inspire our audiences
too.

I think so too.
Yeah.
And I thought a really fun placeto start would be just kind of
exploring when is the last timethat you experienced joy and
what was that like for you?
So yeah, go ahead and share Willya.

I think that's a lovely place to start and I can
literally signpost a moment ofjoy this morning.
I try and get out in natureevery day.
Nature's one of my kind ofenvironments where I remember to
wake up and just be immersed inthe sensory experience of it.
And, we were do walking my dogBella.

(02:14):
And it's near RemembranceSunday, so certainly in the UKs
we go around wearing our, ourpoppies, um, and we have a
little poppy for Bella and she'slike running around all playful.
Um, and she just looked verysmart with her poppy.
And I dunno, there was somethingabout the playfulness of it and,
uh, it's a lovely autumnal day.
The colors are lovely.

(02:36):
Um, you know, our hour fall].
Um, yeah.
And it was just, yeah, it, itreally filled me with a moment
of just joy.
Yeah.
What about you?

I love that.
Yep.
I'm the same way.
I just find so much joy inanimals and in nature, and as I
was thinking about the last timeI experienced joy, I was just
taking out the trash thismorning and it just was
unseasonably warm and the colorsare so bright.
My backyard is completelycovered in yellow maple leaves
and it just felt so good.
I was planning on, inpreparation for this, spending

(03:09):
some time indoors andmeditating, and I was like, no,
I'm gonna do a walkingmeditation because it's just so
glorious outside.
So I love that we both kind offind joy in the nature element.

Oh, and then kind of leads into our first thing
that we said we were gonna likereally lean into is the noticing
of the joy, catching joy when weexperiencing it, but also
intentionally, making aconscious choice that's
important in our life.
'Cause I don't think I alwayscaught the joy as readily as I

(03:41):
do now, and I'm still a work inprogress as we all are.
But when we have more of a, Iguess, a.
Knowing that it's not indulgent,knowing that, it's, it's a
crucial part of life for ourwellbeing.

Yeah.
Yeah.
I love how you refer to it ascatching joy, where it's like,
oh, I got some.
Oh, this is so beautiful.
Right.
And, and it's like catchingbutterflies, like you're going
out with the intention and, andyou're just so excited to see
what you're going to get.
And I love that idea and theintention behind it.
And I, I think this is anespecially crucial conversation

(04:21):
to be having right now.
Because as I've been coachingwith people and talking with
people, you know, just thismorning I saw somebody's
Facebook post where they said, Ifeel almost ashamed to share how
beautiful of an experience I hadon my hike this morning because
I know that so many are having ahard time.
I'm feeling guilty forexperiencing joy.

(04:41):
And I think so often we tend tominimize it even in little ways.
Like somebody gives you acompliment like, oh, I love your
haircut.
Well, you know, I had to get itcut like this because they
really messed it up the lasttime.
Instead of just saying thankyou, that means so much to me.
But finding those little ways toreally allow yourself to fully
embrace joy, I think can havesuch a significant impact.

Yes, and I think what you speak to is re really
recognizing, catching ourselvesif we start to diminish our
sharing of our joy and ourlight, because we might
thinking, well, it'll makesomeone else uncomfortable, but
actually the the highest servicewe can do is to shine and

(05:28):
demonstrate, that joy.
Because if we share how we'veexperienced it or, or, or just.
Just to be in that aura, then ithas a ripple effect.
It is permission giving forother people.
And yes, there is heaviness, butwe can also change the radio

(05:52):
station.
And in the simplest things seethat there's also always moments
to see the beauty in it.
But yeah, we can get in habitsof minimizing the value of that
joy or experiencing it and thensomehow thinking we ought to be

(06:15):
using our time more wisely.
You know, we have thisproductivity bias, and I've done
it myself.
I've been in a moment of like,you know, just enjoying sitting
with the book or something, andthen all of a sudden I think I
need to be doing something moreimportant, whatever important
might be.
So sometimes it's almost likeour nervous system we have to
train it to be more familiar inthe okayness of the joy because

(06:42):
society or habits might pull usin a different direction.

Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why I was so
excited to collaborate on thisspecific subject with you,
because as I've watched yourfeed, so you did a reel recently
where you were playing in theleaves and taking pictures, and
I found myself grinning from earto ear.
I did not realize how much Ineeded to see joy and

(07:11):
playfulness and levity until Inoticed my own reaction to that.
And so I love how you're talkingabout, no, like we're doing the
world a disservice if we'remuting that because.
People are attracted to that.
People need that.
It's what makes it moresustainable for our nervous
system is injecting thesemoments of joy, right?
It's like inoculating ourselvesagainst all of the hard things

(07:33):
that we're seeing in life whenwe can just be like, okay, how
am I going to get my daily doseand where might I go for that?

Yes.
Like really building it into animportant factor of your
thriving and your success.
I love that you spotted that,that reel and it was, it really
was a joyful day.
It was a photo shoot I had andthere was like, you know, all,
all these leaves and it wasplayful and there's something we

(08:02):
forget, we.
We forget to be playful.
I forget to be playful.
'Cause life can feel veryserious.
And yes, there are challengesand I'm not dismissing,
devaluing any of, the challengeand the heaviness the people
might be experiencing in thecollective experience right now.

(08:23):
And, it's like the small things.
It's like, well, coming back tothe small things we were saying,
you know, there's the scope tofind it in the small accessible
things.
And like, just like you said,how that impacted you and made
you question and just think, ah,I need some of that.
And I hope that thisconversation will inspire people

(08:43):
to also get some of that forthemselves and also recognize
its importance.

Absolutely, and I think it all starts with just
allowing ourselves to experienceit, giving ourselves that
permission.
I think too often we think, no,it's too childish to crunch the
leaves or no, that would besilly to go and do that or to,
go be playful with my pet in thepark, and what are people going
to think if I'm being silly?
We suppress so much of it, butif we just allow ourselves to

(09:14):
enjoy.
It was interesting.
I was talking with my daughterwho recently went to a big
Halloween party, and it wasinteresting for her to compare
and contrast that she justdecided to show up and have a
good time and to not worry aboutwhat people would think if she
got in the middle of the dancefloor and started busting a
move.
And it was interesting for herto notice that, oh, and those

(09:35):
people over there, they're justsitting there.
And she recognized that, oh, I'mso grateful that I'm here in
this moment that i'm not worriedabout that, that I'm giving
myself permission to enjoymyself, and it was just such an
interesting visual contrastthere.
And you had actually told mesomething when we first started
talking about collaborating thatI'm hoping that you'll share,

(09:55):
but you had talked about theregrets of the dying.
Will you share a little bitabout

Yes.
So, um, someone amazing calledBonnie Ware.
She, was Australian, is anAustralian, writer, author, but
she spent quite a bit of timewith people in a hospice in
their end of life care.
During this time she didnumerous, hundreds of interviews

(10:23):
with, patients in their finaldays and it was just
conversations over, over acuppa, to sort of explore all
the things about their life andwhat they were proud of, but
also specifically regrets.
And a huge piece of research wasdone off the back of this, and

(10:45):
it's culminated in a book calledThe Five Regrets of the Dying.
But number five on that list wasthat I wish I'd let myself be
happier.
Number one was, I wish I'd beenmore true to myself.
I mean, you could spend, wecould spend, if we could, I

(11:05):
mean, I'm getting ideas aboutdoing a whole series on, on all
the five, but there's somethingaround this.
I, I wish I'd let myself behappier.
And it speaks to this permissiongiving that you have just
mentioned, giving ourselvespermission just like your
daughter was, dance like no onewas watching just for her

(11:27):
enjoyment, and not snap herselfoff from that joy and, oh, you
must be so proud of your lovelydaughter at a young age.
Choosing when it's so, there'sso much pressure of, mm-hmm.

Yeah.

How to be seen, uh, and, and to sort of, to
notice the choices available.
'cause this is about choice,isn't it?

Yeah.
Yeah.
And choosing into it, making itan intentional choice that, how
is it that I wanna show uptoday?
I had heard something recentlywhere somebody was talking about
the difference between a moodand a temperament, and they said
that a temperament is simply amood that you've chosen to
practice enough, that it becomesa part of you.

(12:18):
Isn't that beautiful, especiallyas it applies to joy

Yes.

that you can choose into joy, and once you do
it enough times, it becomes apart of who you are and how you
show up in the world.

Oh, I love that.
I love that because we are whatwe repeatedly do.
We are not predisposed, I don'tbelieve to any one way of being,
but we will be how wecontinually show up in our being

(12:51):
and whatever habits we daily door do not do.
We will create like grooves inour neural pathways of some
things that feel easier and somethings that feel less easy, and
the things that have been hardworn over time will just feel
super familiar, even if theydon't necessarily deliver the

(13:12):
most joy.
And so there really is somethingabout what you are saying is the
intention and the practicing andknowing that the more we do
something, the more we can craftthat groove, I suppose, and make
it part of our temperament.

Yeah, absolutely.
And it's not so much, I thinksometimes we shame joy because
we have this, you know.
This or that mentality, and wethink, well, I can't be joyful
because there's hard thingshappening, but to step into, no,
this and this, that I canexperience so much joy going and
walking through the leaves andenjoying all of the beautiful

(13:50):
colors.
And there can still be hardthings in the world.
It doesn't mean that that thosethings are diminished.
It's no, I'm going to fullyembrace all of it.
I'm not going to shame my joybecause there's hard things
happening.
I'm going to chooseintentionally to practice
finding those joyful moments,even when it's hard because I
know that that's what's going tohelp me to have that resilience

(14:11):
through the hard times as well.

Yes.
And this piece around levitywithin that, it, it's really
healthy for us.
Laughter it's provenscientifically is really good
for us.
Not to mention our whole other,you know, things and I'm sure as
we we go on, we'll kind of addto our, our list.
I think that's just like sopowerful to remember.

Well, and I think that what you just said
about just even letting yourselflaugh, it leads into the second
point that we wanted to discuss.
Creating that joy every day andthat it doesn't have to, we
don't have to wait for a big,grand experience, but we can
find it in those little moments,like just maybe part of your
practices that you do want tohave like a laughing meditation
where I'm just gonna laugh for10 minutes, just see how it

(15:00):
changes my body.

I mean, just you even saying that's funny,

Right?
Like.

but, but yes, it's contagious that that giggling,
isn't it?
And yeah, it's really good forour nervous system, like whether
it's laughter or not.
I mean, there is research abouthow many times a day little
children laugh and it's kind ofhundreds, hundreds.
And then they do the comparativeresearch with, with adults.

(15:31):
And sadly, someone's notlaughing even once in a day.

Mm-hmm.

But it's so important for our, our nervous
system.
So yeah, whether it's after,it's these everyday things.
I love dancing.
And I've started dancing more.
I know that it's important forme.
Part of the things that I'mreally seeing as important for
me this year is just coming intomy body more, moving, more

(15:57):
listening to the wisdom of mybody and my body likes to dance.
And,, I think because I wasn'tgoing anywhere to dance, I
forgot to do it.

Hmm.

I don't know why I just wasn't dancing around my
house or just dancing because ofit.
So back to creating intentionalpractices to make it a habit to
recognize I don't need anoccasion to dance, I just can
take a dance break.
I've been doing that and I'vefound it so helpful, maryAnn.
It's just such a a shift, ofthat attitude in a moment.

(16:34):
And so literally, I mean this,you know, this won't suit
everyone, but at the end of myday, I put my headphones in and
I just dance around the bedroomfor a couple of tunes.
Normally something quiteuplifting, and in my mind, I'm
going through i'm recognizingand celebrating myself for the,
acknowledging the day, becausevery often it gets forgotten

(16:54):
because I go to bed and, youknow, onto the next, but there's
a moment of just dancing in mybody and recognizing even the
small things like just makingdinner or taking a break with a
coffee or having a conversationwith a friend or finishing
something at work that I'd beenprocrastinating and, and it's
just.
Just this moment of recognitionin my body dancing and it's

(17:16):
joyous.
And in that moment I shift.
And just to let you know, it'snot just an end of day thing.
There was, the other day comeback from holiday and I don't
know, you know, sometimes afterholiday you just think, oh, I've
got all this stuff to do and,and I looked at my diary for the
week ahead and it lookedoverwhelming.
It really wasn't asoverwhelming.
It's this week we're in now,it's not overwhelming, but you

(17:38):
know, sometimes your perspectivejust reads overwhelm, even if
it's not true.
And I'd kind of got myself in aplace and I didn't notice it as
quick as I would've liked, buteventually I noticed, hang on a
minute, I need to move.
And I literally got myself up,put my earphones in, just did my
dancing, and I felt completelydifferent.

(18:00):
And what felt overwhelmingbefore, seemed manageable and
nothing had changed with mydiary.
But the dancing and thisembodiment and the seeking out a
moment of joy and levity justchanged the entire experience.

Yeah, absolutely.
It has me thinking about, youknow, the emotion is energy in
motion, and so whether you'retrying to process a hard emotion
or invite in a positive emotion,or did I say that right?
Process a negative emotion orinvite in a positive emotion,
then just being mindful abouthow.
Do I want to do that in my body?
And I love that you dance andI'm thinking how much just

(18:44):
turning on some music anddancing while you're doing the
mundane can make it so much morejoyful, be it making a bed or
cooking or sweeping.
And I confess that before thiscall then.
I also enjoy dancing, but beforethis then I was jumping on my
mini trampoline and gettingmyself hyped up and it's so
amazing how just those littlethings, I mean I was only on

(19:06):
there for a couple of minutes,but it helps to shift the
energy.
And when you talked about all ofthe things in your diary on your
to-do list of what you need todo, it's so interesting'cause I
noticed that for myself too,that when I'm experiencing
overwhelm.
If I can just take some time toget out into nature, to jump, to
dance, to sing, to play theukulele, to do something.

(19:27):
It's so interesting how muchthat changes how I view my list,
where my list can go from beingso overwhelming to look, I only
have three things I have to dotoday, but that the, the list
hasn't changed, but my weightand my mental energy around it
has.

It is like magic.

Mm-hmm.

And there is a little miracle, just that the
miracle of perspective,

Yeah.

and it doesn't have to take along this joy,
this levity, the getting in ourbody, whatever the root may be,
and it's different for everyone.
We're all different, but itdoesn't have to be a holiday or
a complete escape from life.
It can just be a moment ofpresence.

Yeah.
So just for fun, I'm reallycurious if you had to pick three
things.
You've already talked aboutdancing, so it's okay if you
wanna include that.
But what three things do youfind you can really rely on and
turn to in your day-to-day lifethat really help you to shift
that energy into that joy?

So, um, I have to include nature and I know I
referred to it before, um, butthere's something, that just
helps me move into an awarenessof more than myself.
So there's moments of awe oflistening, you know, to birds
or, you know, so there's,there's, there's being out in
nature.

(20:50):
There's the dancing.
I do also just love to sit andread,

Hmm

Just sit with a book to just have a, a
relationship, either with afiction or nonfiction, something
very often it's somethinginspiring

Yeah,

and good coffee.

yeah, yeah.
It's really those little things,right?
It's just.
So wonderful to just even takethe time to just think on what
does bring me joy, and then letyourself thoroughly enjoy it.
Right?
Because it's gonna be a verydifferent experience, like with
your cup of coffee if you'rejust drinking it quick to just
get on with your day versus thisis my joyful moment and I'm

(21:28):
going to really give myselfpermission to enjoy it.
Even that can create such ashift.

Yes.
And you know, yes, of course Icould say big holidays and spa
days and yes to all of that andbubble baths.
But, my go-tos were actually thesmaller things.
What, what about you?

Yeah, well, very similar to you.
I think that we're very similar.
It's probably why we're doingthis together'cause we just
resonate.
But yeah, for me it's that Iknow that I need to take some
time to even just to sit and tobreathe.
I enjoy being in nature.
Setting a cozy fire.
Yeah, like you said, evendelicious food can be fun or
intentionally starting aconversation with a friend,

(22:10):
like, oh, who can I talk totoday?
I've noticed that there's somepeople where I just wanna talk
to'em because I just feel somuch better once the
conversation is done, we justresonate.
And so it is kind of amazing tojust think about those little
things.
Make a list.
Your go-to list.
So then when you are having ahard time reminding yourself
that yes, that and this, look atmy list of all of these amazing

(22:35):
things that I could participatein.
Sometimes it's interesting toofor me to even think, okay, well
I could take a 30 minute walk innature, or I just turn on, like
you had talked about, i'm gonnalisten to one of my favorite
songs on my playlist and dancefor just one song.
It's not gonna take a lot outtamy day.
I could do it on my lunch break,but that those little things can
have such a significant impact,is just really it.

(22:58):
It's inspiring for me to justreally think that, wow, I cannot
believe that that five minutesong had such a big shift on how
it is that I'm showing up andhow I'm feeling.

Yeah, and, and it can feel like magic just because
it's like, oh my God, I was likethis.
And now I'm like, you know, thewhole experience has shifted.
And I have in my mind.
I used to have it written down,but now I kind of, after
practicing it for, it's very,it's very clear my thing's on my
love list.
I call it my love list.
But yeah, if anyone listeninghas not yet got their own love

(23:30):
list, it really merits justspending a bit of time leaning
in to the things that you canaccess in your day to help bring
you joy and inter disperseintentionally and deliberately,
more moments To allow this to bepart of your day, and if we

(23:51):
really lean into a questionlike, what does a successful
life feel like to you, ameaningful life, feel like to
you when we are not talkingabout the numbers, uh, or linear
or, you know, anything likethat, if we are talking about
the language of the heart, well,Joy's gonna be in there

Mm-hmm.

and let's not leave it too late to unlock
that.
That vital part of what it is tobe human and connect to that as
our birthright.

Yeah, I think it's beautiful that you call it
your love list because it is anact of self-love to allow
yourself to experience that joy,to even just pick one thing off
of your love list, even ifyou're only able to do one thing
in a day, to pick one thing andsee if it makes a difference for
you.
See if it impacts your mood, andthen notice how practicing that

(24:49):
can impact how it is that youshow up generally in the world.
But it starts with identifyingthose things for yourself and
identifying.
I think also it's helpful tonotice in the body that, wow,
how does this feel?
Ooh, this feels pretty good.
I'm gonna let myself feel this alittle bit more.
This feels so amazing, butbecoming more familiar with the

(25:09):
emotion of joy making it yourfriend, somebody that's familiar
to you.

Yes.
And um, just to add to that, youknow, if it's not something you
are regularly leaning intoalmost anticipate that the
unfamiliar, your nervous systemmight wanna get you out there
because we need to let ourbodies, our nervous systems,
know that it's safe, it's safeto participate in this.

(25:35):
It's actually a great thing andgood for me.
But if we are not in the habitor if we have like a, a
productivity bias, we thought,oh no, I haven't got time for
that.
We can kind of dismiss and, andknock it off the list.
So, yeah, even if it feels alittle bit un blissful, but also
uncomfortable, like, stay withit.
It's all, it's all good.
It's all in the service of yourhighest.

Yeah, I'm so grateful that you pointed that
out because it can be a littleuncomfortable in the beginning,
especially if it's somethingthat you haven't practiced.
If it's unfamiliar to you, likedancing, like nobody's watching,
it's gonna feel uncomfortable,and then you might notice that
as you practice it, other peoplewill be inspired.
Other people will want to comeand join you on the dance floor.
It is a little uncomfortablewhen it isn't something that you

(26:19):
practice, but being willing tobe a little bit uncomfortable as
you work to cultivate that.
'cause you're right, it is thisand that.
Even as you're cultivating joy,it's, it's gonna be a little
uncomfortable and it's worth itto me to practice that joy.
So I'm so glad that you broughtthat up.

Oh, and it's that, and again, isn't it?
It's all things, it's all good.
Um, oh, I'm just like lovingall, all these things and I just
wanted to also catch somethingthat came to mind about, you
know, this piece leaning intoself love, it's really self
honoring.
You know, noticing theimportance of your joy and

(26:59):
giving it value.
And I really see this linkbuilding for me, the more I
honor myself and listen towhat's important and safeguard
some time for it.
And it doesn't need to be longtime, but I, I feel that it then
builds myself trust.

(27:19):
It builds my self-worth becauseI'm not abandoning myself, I'm
choosing me, but it in thatresilience building and that
self-honoring, I'm able tocontribute more.
It doesn't take me away fromthis piece around productivity.
You know, if someone's thinking,well, I haven't got time for

(27:40):
that, it's actually nurturing ussuch that we can come to our
lives more powerfully

Hmm.
That is beautiful.
Oh my goodness.
And I love how you said, if youvalue it.
Then you'll prioritize it,right?
If you value it, if you actuallyvalue experiencing joy, why not
invest in it and cultivate moreof it?
And it was beautiful to me too,how you said no.
That's what's self-honoringabout it.

(28:11):
I hadn't ever considered thatbefore, that not allowing myself
to experience joy was actuallydevaluing self because it's not
self-nurturing to mute that, butto nourish yourself with joy is
self-honoring.
That was just beautifully said.
Thank you for that.

and anything that isn't self-honoring is in the
direction of self abandonment.

Hmm.

Um, yeah.

So

mean, what a world if we had more people stepping
into their fullest, theirhighest, their most joyful self,
and you know, we, if we show upto life with more joy in our
hearts, we send ripple effectsof more peace and compassion and
understanding.
It's in the direction ofcreating better worlds, isn't

(28:58):
it?

Hmm.
So true.
Yeah, and I think that with theidea of creating a better world,
I wanna lead into our thirdpoint that we wanted to talk
about, which is kind of thecorrelation between joy and
gratitude.
I.
So, yeah, tell me a bit abouthow gratitude has shifted things
for you, and I'm curious abouthow gratitude maybe also plays
into your love list.
'cause when I kind of think ofgratitudes as a love list as

(29:21):
well.

Yes.
And um, I hadn't thought aboutmy love list as gratitudes, but
actually, if you think about allthe things that I mentioned on
my list, it's moments where Icome back to the present moment
and in the present moment.
there is a greater appreciation.
And I think the sacred, thebeauty it's in it's in

(29:46):
everything, isn't it?
And, we can't be in gratitudeand appreciation and also be in
anger or overwhelm.
It's not possible.
When you are in gratitude.
It is like a doorway to a higherlevel experience.

(30:07):
It shifts our perspective, andeven in difficult things like
heartbreak or grief, we can findgratitude for the love that may
be existed.
Also the learning, even if it'shard, that we are wiser as a

(30:29):
result.
And sometimes when things areraw, we might not see it
immediately, but even in themost difficult of scenarios, we
can find gratitude.
And in the every day, in themundane, in the sweeping the
leaves or the, or the looking upat the sun and feeling it on
your face.

(30:49):
Um.
Yeah.
What about you?

I don't know if I can top what you said.
That was beautiful.
No, no.
It is interesting for me tothink about though the things
that I, that do bring me joy.
They also do create thosefeelings of gratitude where it's
like, oh, I'm just so gratefulthat I can step outside and just
feel the sun on my face.
I'm so grateful that I can seethe beautiful leaves.

(31:15):
I'm so grateful for thesefriendships that I'm cultivating
for these kind of beautiful,deep, meaningful conversations.
The, the things that the soulyearns for that.
Yeah, it brings me joy and Ithink that they're very much
correlated that they bring mejoy because they're things that
I am just so grateful to haveand actually placing that value

(31:37):
in, I'm going to intentionallyexpress gratitude and what's
gonna happen when you'reexpressing gratitude, you're
going to be experiencing joy andyou're going to be spreading
joy.
And I think that they're just sotightly bound, that the more we
cultivate one, the other can'thelp but come along.

Yes, and it's like then the snowball effect, isn't
it?
Because there is momentum.
We might forget, because we alldo, we get engrossed in
something and other thingsappear urgent.
But the more we're doing it as apractice and creating some more

(32:15):
momentum and permission givingand leaning into our love list.
Then we catch ourselves quickerwhen we go off track.
Just like I caught myself theother day when things were
overwhelming and, and don't getme wrong, like I teach this
stuff and I still get lost.
You know, and I, no doubt youdo, because we all works in

(32:35):
progress.
But what I find is the more welean into this and discover this
for ourselves and go on thisjourney, that we are just
quicker, quicker to, quicker tospot.
Um, when we go off track, get alittle bit more savvy to
question the thinking that mighthave us do something different

(32:55):
apart from laugh at ourselves.
So there's a elevateddiscernment I think that comes
when we.
Start the, snowball of joy andgratitude and, and even my,
like, dancing in the eveningwhen I'm enjoying that, I'm, I'm
being grateful for the day.
It's like the other side of thecoin.

Yeah.
Well, and it has me thinking howmuch gratitude really can be a
bridge towards joy.
That if someone is in a placeright now where they're having a
really hard time evenremembering what joy feels like.
They're wondering, okay, well Idon't even know what brings me
joy anymore.
Then taking that time to thinkabout and what am I grateful
for, I think can be such abeautiful bridge and connecting

(33:39):
point to be able to access joyagain.
To just be thinking about, yeah,okay.
What things am I grateful for inmy day-to-day life?
Can yeah, shift that energy?

I love that and also in saying that it really,.
It's the point about it notbeing in a doing,'cause some of
the examples we've talked aboutcould have us thinking that joy
is in the doing.
But actually it's found in thatpresence, the present moment
awareness.
And that's the thing thatgratitude does because it opens

(34:12):
a will window for us toexperience awe and appreciation,
which by its very nature it getsus in with that, now, um, and
yeah, that's what came up to mewhen you, when you said, I
thought, ah, yes.
Yeah.
It's in the, it's in the who webe.
And if we can cultivate more ofthat gratitude, we can start to
connect, reconnect, if wehaven't connected for a while

(34:35):
with the part that we all have,you know, everyone has access to
this.
It's not, it's not only for thefew.
We all as our birthright can, wejust need to listen a bit.

Yeah, I love that differentiation of the
doing versus the being.
But yes, joy can be somethingthat you do and actively
cultivate.
And it's an emotion that we canlearn and become more familiar
with and just be.
Like, what would it look like tojust be in joy, to embody joy
and you don't even have to doanything.
I mean, we all know those peoplethat just seem like walking

(35:08):
sunshine and it's like, how dothey do that?
And they're not even doinganything.
They're just grocery shopping.
But it's like, wow, they'reamazing.
And it's like, yeah, it'sbecause they have become the
embodiment of joy.

It's back to the temperament, isn't it?
What you were saying And um, asyou were saying about, those
individuals, they like thesunshine.
And um, now I dunno whether thisis myth or not, but I read that
sunflowers follow the sun.
So, you know, they move over theday, the sun, they're following
the sun because the sun is whatnourishes them and they're

(35:43):
putting their attention on thething that helps them thrive.
And I guess what we are pointingto here is inviting people to
put their attention on this,self nourishing piece that is
completely linked to our highestwellbeing and thriving.

(36:04):
So yeah, like the sunflower,let's just put our attention, on
that, which brings us more sun.
And, and you know, the cloudscome by as well, but the sun
hasn't disappeared.
It's still there.
So there's still a knowing it'llcome back.
And in the meantime I'll justlook after myself while I'm
waiting to the clouds to, youknow, or the storm to pass.

Yeah.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
So I used to live in Kansas,which is known as the Sunflower
State, so that's a hundredpercent true.
They do follow the sun.

That's amazing.

It is true.
Yeah.
And, and I love that visual too,of all these things are
happening in the world and I'mgonna choose to focus on this.
Like, it reinforces that visualhelps to reinforce the idea of
how much intention can impactus.
And, and I was thinking tooabout, you know, the clouds and
the storms and sometimes theycome and like you mentioned, we

(37:01):
can learn from them, we can growfrom them.
Like maybe that's exactly what'swatering us.
Even though it may be reallyuncomfortable in the moment that
even those hard things can, wecan find joy and gratitude in
them as we look for the lessons,as we appreciate that my grief
is so deep because my love wasso deep and looking for those

(37:21):
things, trying to, to find thatsilver lining.

Oh, that's so, that is so beautifully put.
Well, I can't say anything totop that.
But, um,'cause I think thatfeels like a beautiful place to
kind of,, bookmark thisbeautiful conversation.
And I have to say, I've hadgoosebumps pretty much through
the whole conversation, which ismy sign, my little sign to me

(37:48):
that I'm doing the thing thatfeels most aligned and true and
joyous.
So, I dunno when anyone elsegets that.
I think I, I rather like, it'snot the cold, it genuinely is.
It's sort of like, ah, this is,this is my soul's loving this.
Um.

And I love that you're so in tune that your body
even feels it has a reaction toit.
I love that.
That's beautiful.

So, um, MaryAnn, I, I feel that this is the first
of many more conversations.
But to kind of, wrap this oneup, for any of my listeners who
wanna find out more about youand your work and, yeah, say
maybe a little bit about howthey can find out more and get
in touch with you.

Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
So I also have a podcast, it'scalled Inner Work with MaryAnn
Walker, and it's a podcast forthe empaths The highly sensitive
people and recovering peoplepleasers.
And so I help people learn howto state boundaries, take up
space, and just find more joy intheir life.
And so you can listen to mypodcast or you can find me on
Instagram and TikTok andfacebook@MaryAnnwalker.life.

(38:54):
So come and find me there.
And how can my audience connectwith you?

Um, well, I have my own podcast.
It's called This One PreciousLife.
And I talk about all things.
Authenticity, wellbeing.
But really it's very similar toyou coming to life and embracing
this one precious life, in a waythat feels true.
you know, bolder less stress andmore joy.

(39:20):
I lean into a lot aboutself-love and this self-honoring
and how we can thrive more inour lives.
So that's this one, preciouslife.
And if any of your listenerswant to, join my, the
remembering, a monthly freemonthly women's circle, I hold,
it's called the rememberingbecause this piece around

(39:42):
remembering to remember being.
Kind of we're gonna go offtrack, but when we come together
and remember together, ourpower, our voice, what's
important.
So yeah, if anyone fancies acoming along to that, then my,
I'm Natalie king.net, mywebsite, I'm sure it'll be in
your show notes.
And, at this one Precious Lifeon Instagram.

(40:04):
But yes, I'm, would love to,meet any of your community
that's curious to join, join methere.
And, and in on Joy or anythingelse related to our conversation
or beyond.
Is there any final words youwanted to share?
MaryAnn?

I just honestly want to just express gratitude
to you for just being here.
You do have that light, you dohave so much sunshine energy,
and so I appreciate justeverything that you're putting
out into the world.
I wanna tell everybody, I willput all of her contact
information in the show notes,but if you wanna catch joy and
just kind of be like surprisedby a joyful moment, then make

(40:40):
sure you're following Natalie onher Instagram, because that's
just the energy that she putsout.
But being intentional, I guessthat that's what I would sum up
with is, is my hope is that wecan all just be a little bit
more intentional about findingjoyful people to follow on
social media.
Finding joyful songs that liftus up and help us to dance and
to feel, but to be intentionalabout what's one thing that I

(41:03):
could either start doing or stopdoing that could help me to
experience more joy in life.
How about you?
Do you have any final

Oh, well, equally to echo the, I love following
you on Instagram and yourpodcast, so yes, for my
listeners, please do checkMaryAnn out.
It's the kind of inspiringcontent that helps the world be
a brighter, better place and forus to step more into our power.

(41:31):
And I think I wanna reinforcewhat you've said about intention
because I think that really isthe key.
Because when we put this on ourradar as important, I hope that
people after listening to thisconversation can see, ah, it's a
disservice to not go in thedirection of my joy.

(41:51):
We are here, we have oneprecious life, and part of that
life is to experience and toknow what brings us joy.
It is such a worthy investmentof your time, and not only that,
that investment which you mightfeel, feels indulgent, I promise
you, is not because you come tolife, your joy filled life in

(42:17):
whichever degree you find, youare able.
To be much more of service andto shine more like the
sunflower.
So, um, yeah.
I have loved this conversationand I hope the listeners have
too.

Yeah.
Well thank you so much and yeah,don't let a lack of creating
joy.
Be one of your regrets at theend of life.
You can choose into it today.

Beautiful.

All right, well, thank you so much for being
here, everybody, and we'll seeyou next time.

Take care.
Thank you.
Bye.

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