December 4, 2025 • 44 mins
Understanding the Family Scapegoat: Healing, Identity, and People Pleasing
Today I am joined by Elle Boone, host of The Family Scapegoat Chronicles. Elle dives deep into a role that many empaths and highly sensitive people unknowingly carry—that of the family scapegoat—and how it shapes identity, people-pleasing tendencies, and emotional well-being.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- What it means to be the family scapegoat and how this role is assigned in dysfunctional and narcissistic family systems.
- The three key dynamics of scapegoating: blame, shame, and rejection, and how these affect long-term emotional health.
- The concept of “family mobbing” and how siblings and other family members may unconsciously or consciously participate in scapegoating.
- Differences between the scapegoat, golden child, and lost child roles—and how these roles can rotate over time.
- How scapegoating contributes to people-pleasing, overgiving, and identity confusion.
- Signs that you might have been scapegoated, including minimized successes, silent treatment, backhanded criticism, and heightened responsibility for family dysfunction.
- Practical strategies for healing: observing patterns, pacing your recovery, and reclaiming your personal identity.
- Recommended resources, including Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed by Rebecca C. Mandeville, and the documentary The Wisdom of Trauma by Gabor Maté.
Challenge for the Week:
Take a compassionate pause to observe your patterns. Notice how often you apologize, overgive, or seek approval. Write down at least three recurring behaviors and reflect on where they might have originated. This is the first step toward reclaiming your identity and untangling the people-pleasing and scapegoating patterns in your life.
Work With Me:
If you’re ready to start identifying the roles that hold you back and learn to set healthier boundaries, you can book a free clarity call with me here: https://calendly.com/maryannwalkerlife/freeconsult
Don’t Forget to Subscribe
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🎯 email me now at maryann@maryannwalker.life to work with me!
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Links Mentioned in This Episode:
- Elle Boone’s podcast: The Family Scapegoat Chronicles https://thefamilyscapegoatchronicles.podbean.com/e/the-family-scapegoat-chronicles-i-true-stories-of-survival-and-healing-after-narcissistic-and-family-scapegoating-abuse/
- Elle Boone on Substack:https://thefamilyscapegoatchronicles.substack.com/
- Book: Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed by Rebecca C. Mandeville – https://a.co/d/7kLN3lG
- Documentary: The Wisdom of Trauma by Gabor Maté – Watch here https://thewisdomoftrauma.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
MaryAnn Walker (00:18):
Well, hello and welcome back.
This is Inner Work with MaryAnnWalker, where I help recovering
people, pleasers, identify theroles that are holding them
back.
And as part of that, I want towelcome Elle Boone to the show.
So welcome Elle.
So happy to have you.
Elle Boone (00:32):
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be here.
I'm very, very excited to havethis conversation with you
today, Marianne.
Thank you for inviting me.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (00:40):
Yeah.
And L is launching a brand newpodcast that really works with a
very specific role that holds alot of people back.
Do you wanna tell us a bit aboutthat?
Elle Boone (00:49):
Yes, so the title of the show, which will launch
somewhere between the end, uh,sorry, the middle and the end of
October, is titled The FamilyScapegoat Chronicles.
And.
The name Scape Family Scapegoat,um, would indicate that the host
is probably from that tribe offamily scapegoats.
(01:09):
Um, so yes, I have a lot ofexperience on that topic and I
wanted to create something thatdidn't exist when I figured out
that I was the family scapegoatand all the dynamics that.
Would allow people not just tolearn more about it, but also to
come on the show and expresstheir feelings about it and
share their story so that otherscan be heard and seen and
(01:32):
validated and, and findcommunity as well.
So I'm excited about that.
Yes, I, I hope that many comeand, and, and get benefit and
value out of it.
For sure.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (01:45):
So for those that are unfamiliar with the
term scapegoat, can you tell usa bit about what that looks
like, especially in a familydynamic?
Elle Boone (01:52):
Yes, yes.
So typically in a familydynamic, it's, I, I wanna
preface it by saying adysfunctional family dynamic
because it is, it's very much,um, a dysfunction.
And the scapegoat role is onethat is assigned, um, to a child
(02:13):
within a family system, and itcan be out of a dysfunctional
family system.
A narcissistic family system ora combination of the two, if
that makes sense.
Um, so one person is singled outto carry the blame and the shame
of the family, and not just thecurrent generation, but previous
(02:36):
generations as well.
It's passed down a little bitlike China
MaryAnn Walker (02:40):
Hmm.
Elle Boone (02:40):
family heirloom.
Um, and so the.
The dysfunction of the family isprojected on the family
scapegoat,
MaryAnn Walker (02:49):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (02:50):
and that person is carrying the wounds of, of the,
the family, um, so that thepeople who are doing the
projection don't have to dealwith the issues
MaryAnn Walker (03:01):
That just sounds like such a huge burden.
I mean, to carry the blame andthe shame of the family.
Um, can you give us an exampleof what that might look like?
I'm sure it's probably somethingthat's harder to identify when
you are the one beingscapegoated.
Elle Boone (03:14):
Yeah, the one thing that comes to mind in terms of
blame,'cause there are three,three components that are really
important.
There's blame, shame, andrejection.
So the blame might look likeeverything is your fault.
In the family dynamic, I used tosay.
When I, before I started tofigure this out, I was living in
New York when nine 11 happened,and I used to joke that it was
(03:36):
my fault.
My family blamed me for thatbecause I was living there.
So all jokes aside, the blameand the shame coupled with the
rejection can really wear downthe scapegoat, which is the
point.
If the scapegoat is contained.
Minimized, reduced, then they'renot so much of a threat as they
(04:00):
are if they are free to be thetruth teller that they are.
And I will say too, that theperson who's chosen to be the
scapegoat is typically theempath, the highly sensitive
person, the truth teller, theone who's not afraid to call out
what's happening in the fam, thefamily dynamic.
So it's, targeted.
(04:22):
And sometimes it's deliberateand conscious and sometimes it's
not conscious.
The family can be in a, state ofdenial in terms of the
dysfunction, and not be fullyconscious of what they're doing
and how they're behaving.
So that adds another layer.
But the rejection, I think is,at least for me, has been the
hardest part.
(04:42):
There is something called.
Family mobbing.
Have you heard that term before?
No,
MaryAnn Walker (04:47):
family mopping?
Elle Boone (04:49):
So family mobbing, it's no picnic.
Let me just say that.
It's when the dysfunctionalfamily unit gangs up against the
chosen scapegoat.
So for example, if somethinggoes wrong in the family, the
scapegoat person who is blamedfor that issue or event,
(05:11):
everybody comes together andit's the narcissist at the head
of, those events that ralliesthe siblings, for example,, and
pits the group against thescapegoat.
So it creates this reallyisolating, lonely, dark
sensation for the scapegoatthat's very confusing.
(05:34):
And it takes time to figure thisout.
And so again, I'm really gladyou're doing this episode
because there isn't enoughcontent out there on this topic,
in my opinion, being ascapegoat, it took a while for
me to figure it out.
I'm only five years into myhealing, and i'm still at the
beginning in many ways torecover from this dynamic
(05:56):
because there's so muchisolation that comes out of, the
family mobbing, you don't haveany allies.
Your siblings become yourenemies on purpose.
And so where do you go?
And when you go to someone inthe family, you're typically
being gaslighted with yourconcerns.
(06:16):
That's not what they said.
I didn't say that.
That's not true.
You're making things up.
You are too dramatic.
Why are you so sensitive?
These are clues for anyonelistening.
If you've been told those thingsin your family dynamic, chances
are you are probably thescapegoat in the family.
MaryAnn Walker (06:35):
So when you're being told those things that, oh
no, you're misremembering,you're being too sensitive, are
the other family members thatare participating in it, is this
something that they'reconsciously doing is trying to
blame and shame, or how doesthat show up?
Elle Boone (06:49):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think it's yes and no.
I think that when it starts,when this dysfunction starts
early on, when the kids arereally young, I think as a
safety and coping mechanism, thesiblings will side with the
parent because it's safer.
If you side with the scapegoat,you could be scapegoated too.
(07:12):
And nobody wants to bescapegoated.
So I think it's a little bit ofboth.
And a lot of us are in thisdenial state where we just don't
see things the way they reallyare.
So we come up with copingmechanisms and catchphrases that
minimize the situation anddeflect so that we don't have to
(07:33):
really dig in and do the workand confront the pain.
MaryAnn Walker (07:36):
Yeah.
And that's fascinating'cause asyou describe it that way, it has
me thinking that yes, I can seehow this could be, you know,
with a narcissistic parent, butalso it sounds like a
significant amount of emotionalimmaturity.
And as you talk about how it'susually the highly sensitive and
the empathic people that arescapegoated, I almost wonder if
it's because they're more awareof emotions and aware of
(07:58):
everybody else's emotions andmaybe those that are less
emotionally mature.
It's, it's always easier toblame somebody else than to take
accountability, isn't it?
Elle Boone (08:06):
Yes.
Yeah.
Always.
Yes, always.
Um, and, and I wanna say toothat the, the scapegoat role can
rotate in the family.
So.
The golden child could becomethe scapegoat and vice versa.
So I've been in, in both roles,uh, this
MaryAnn Walker (08:24):
confusing.
Can you tell more about that?
So, first, describe the goldenChild and the scapegoat, and
what are the differences inthose roles.
But then I really wanna hear howthey can switch.
That's
Elle Boone (08:34):
Yeah.
How they're reassigned.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
So the golden child is the onewho is more enmeshed with the
narcissistic.
I'm gonna use the narcissisticdynamic in this explanation
because while you can bescapegoated in, in a
dysfunctional family thatdoesn't have the narcissistic
(08:56):
element.
MaryAnn Walker (08:56):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (08:57):
It's more common in my experience to have both the
narcissism and the dysfunction.
So the, the narcissist alsoassigns the golden child, the
one who's gonna be morecompliant, who's more like them,
who's not going to resist theprogramming as I call it.
And it's a very unhealthydynamic and it can turn into
(09:21):
such enmeshment that I've heardit called, emotional incest,
which is big, a big phrase.
Um, yeah.
So, but let's say the scapegoatdoes something wonderful and
gets more attention for anylength of time.
They can be sort of reassignedas the golden child.
(09:45):
In that moment and then someoneelse has to become the
scapegoat.
They have to have a scapegoat inthe system so those two roles
can switch.
In my experience, it wastemporary.
So back to the scapegoat role, Iwent and because of my
personality, I'm sensitive, butI'm also very vocal and a truth
(10:07):
teller and I call it the way Isee it, and that rocks the boat.
So hence the family mobbing.
Also, the silent treatment is a,another dynamic in this
dysfunction, where if you dosomething.
That they think is wrong or notin compliance with the family
dysfunctional rules, then youcan be given the silent
(10:31):
treatment and stonewalled, whichfurthers the isolation and
rejection emotions in thescapegoat and can later show up,
as, in my case, as complex PTSD.
It's unresolved unprocessedtrauma.
Emotions and they show up.
We filter every experiencethrough all of our past
(10:54):
experiences.
So, yeah, so the way I figuredthis out, it was just before the
pandemic, and I talk about thisin my first episode that we'll
launch in October.
I'm so excited.
Someone I was working withsuggested that I look at my
patterns and behaviors.
(11:16):
And I said, what, why, what'swrong with my patterns?
And he said, well, I hear yourstories and I feel like the
patterns that you've developedthat you're not really aware of
are coping mechanisms and you'refiltering life through them.
So let's say you get anopportunity, in your career and
(11:40):
in that opportunity and thatexperience, something triggers
inside of you and you'reoperating with your behavior
through that trigger and itruins the opportunity because
you're reading it wrong.
So, yeah, so IW that was when Iwas like, okay, and a few other
things took place and I thought,he's right.
(12:02):
I need to look at my patterns.
And that's one of the tips thatI wanna give at the end when we,
when we talk about tips andresources, because if you can,
and people pleasing too, um, is,is a big pattern of being
scapegoated,
MaryAnn Walker (12:17):
I'm also really curious, like I found it so
interesting as you talked abouthow you could switch back and
forth and how you personally,that was your experience between
being scapegoated and being thegolden child and.
Number one, how disorienting,but also the sporadic
reinforcement of hoping to bethe golden child and thinking,
well, if I can just do the rightthing, I can totally see how
(12:39):
that would lead into thosepeople pleasing tendencies,
because you want to not bescapegoated anymore.
You want to be the golden child.
You want to be the special one,but knowing that you're gonna
get knocked off of that role atany moment, that must be
extremely upsetting to thenervous system.
And, and speaking to that, I'mwondering if you can share with
us some of the signs andsymptoms, of being scapegoated.
(13:01):
You said some of the signs andsymptoms are, it's always your
fault.
Like you joked about that nine11 was your fault.
So even things not related toyou at all, you kind of just
knew it was always gonna be yourfault.
Silent treatment, stonewalling.
What are some of the othersymptoms and, and signs of
scapegoating?
Elle Boone (13:19):
In, in terms of trying to figure out if you've
been scapegoated in your family.
MaryAnn Walker (13:23):
Yeah.
I guess I'm really curious,like, how did you, how did you
put it together?
Like what, what brought it intoyour awareness?
It sounds like it's somethingthat it's often hard to see that
you're experiencing it, so howdid you figure it out?
Elle Boone (13:35):
So it was, there were th two other events that
took place in terms ofidentifying my own behaviors and
some of that included, anxietyand people pleasing.
MaryAnn Walker (13:48):
Hmm.
Elle Boone (13:49):
Um, and when my, friend suggested that I start
looking at my patterns.
I went to YouTube and I startedlooking up as many videos and
books that I could find, on thesubject of narcissism, family
dysfunction, and all of thosethings.
And that's when I started toidentify with, oh, silent
treatment.
(14:09):
That's, oh, gaslighting.
There's a whole list of,nomenclature is, is a term I
use, like it's the vocabularyfor this.
So I started looking into all ofthose different elements in,
that dysfunction, and firstidentified with the experiences
that I had under that lens.
(14:31):
And then just looking for,information.
And when I finally got to thepoint where I, found what I was
looking for, it was about two orthree years in from that first
event and I was on.
During the pandemic when we allhad a lot of time, I was on a
Facebook, group page aboutnarcissism, I'm sure, and I was
(14:54):
reading comments.
And in the comments someonesuggested a book
MaryAnn Walker (14:58):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (14:59):
that was written by Rebecca c Mandeville.
This is one of my, tips at theend for references and
resources.
I wanna get the name of the bookright, so I have to look it up.
Blamed, shamed, and Reject.
No, rejected, blamed and Shamed.
I sometimes get those backwards.
I'm so sorry.
MaryAnn Walker (15:21):
Oh, it's just fine.
And I'll link that in the shownotes for everybody too.
Elle Boone (15:24):
Rejected, shamed, and Blamed.
Yes.
So she wrote this book.
She is a licensed familytherapist and a life coach, and
she wrote this book thatdescribes my entire experience
MaryAnn Walker (15:39):
Wow.
Elle Boone (15:40):
on family scapegoating.
She's coined the term familyscapegoating abuse and has a
peer review study out andanother one in the making, which
is important because that givesthis.
Dynamic, more exposure and morepeople, with opportunities to
learn about what they might havebeen through.
Because for me it was, I justwalked around with a chip on my
(16:01):
shoulder and this anxietythinking, oh, this is just who I
am.
No, it's, it was my programmingand my conditioning and my
upbringing.
So once I got the vocabularydown, I knew what to look for.
Not just in information, butalso my behaviors and my
patterns, so I could start tobreak those cycles within my own
(16:23):
family.
Yeah, Did that answer yourquestion?
MaryAnn Walker (16:27):
that does answer my question beautifully.
And I'm also curious, I'm goingback again to the switching back
and forth between the scapegoatand the golden child.
If, from your experience, wasthat often, like, I wonder if
that was even weaponized, likecomparison with why can't you be
like them?
Is that another symptom of beingscapegoated, or what was your
(16:47):
experience there?
Elle Boone (16:48):
It can be, yes.
It wasn't my experience.
Um, I will say though, that.
Especially in the narcissisticdynamic, the narcissist is very
interested in and protective ofimage, the family
MaryAnn Walker (17:03):
Hmm.
Elle Boone (17:04):
And I thought about this earlier today in,
anticipation of meeting withyou, and I feel like in, my
upbringing there was a a lot oflack financially.
And, and I, so maybe that's whyI didn't experience it.
And I feel like families thatare more affluent might have
more to be concerned about interms of image.
(17:28):
So, yeah, that's, that was mytake earlier today.
When I thought about it, therewe didn't have a lot to be
concerned about in terms ofpublic facing personas.
So, So, no.
Um, and the, and when the rolesswitched, it wasn't necessarily
scapegoat to golden child andback.
Sometimes it's the scapegoat tothe lost child.
(17:53):
Which is another element, getsif the scapegoat leaves and
goes, no contact.
That's a term that's reallypopular right now.
Um, someone else has to takethat role on.
So it can be reassigned in thatway to another sibling.
And it's not typically thegolden child in my experience.
(18:14):
It's the lost child or, someoneelse in the system that's, not
already been the golden child.
Because that rearing from myexperience, started at a very
young age.
The golden child is conditionedand programmed, from a very,
very young age, and I see itmore with a mother and son
MaryAnn Walker (18:32):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (18:33):
than a mother and daughter dynamic in terms of the
golden child, so, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (18:40):
can you kind of give us a little bit more
information about, who is thelost child?
Like how would you describe thelost child?
Elle Boone (18:47):
Uh, it's in my experience, it's, it's someone
who's been, sort of ignored inthe sense that they weren't
given opportunities that otherkids are dynamic in that sy that
system.
Maybe they didn't excel inschool as much.
So they just kind of get washedinto the background.
(19:08):
Um, and not, given what, what,definitely not what they needed
for sure.
So they just kind of becomequiet and voiceless.
My experience.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (19:20):
Okay, and so tell me if I'm understanding
this correctly.
So then both the golden childand the scapegoat are getting a
lot of attention, thoughdifferent kinds of attention.
And then the lost child is, theone that's kind of ignored and
neglected.
And then those roles kind of canrotate and shift around
depending on.
Elle Boone (19:37):
Mm-hmm.
MaryAnn Walker (19:38):
What is gonna put forth the best image in the
moment it sounds like.
Elle Boone (19:42):
And protect the denial system that is such, has
such a stronghold on especiallythe, the dysfunctional families.
And what I mean by dysfunctionis unresolved trauma of their
own.
It can be alcoholism, drugaddiction.
All of those things are underthat dysfunctional umbrella.
When I say dysfunctional.
Yeah.
(20:03):
So there's, there's a lot of.
I think in every role, includingthe narcissist and maybe
especially a lot of unprocessedtrauma.
MaryAnn Walker (20:13):
Yeah, sounds like it.
Elle Boone (20:14):
There are a couple of other things that I have in
my notes that in terms of peopletrying to identify whether
they've been scapegoated, That Ithink are important.
If I can just take a quickglance here.
Okay.
So here, here are a few things.
That are really common, that ascapegoat, a family scapegoat
(20:36):
can experience.
They're, like I said earlier,they're blamed for everything.
When anything goes wrong, it'stheir fault.
Ironically, your successes areminimized.
they're ignored or downplayed.
They don't wanna put you on apedestal.
That role is taken in thismovie.
(20:57):
Right.
And I'll say too that, you know,once you start to identify the
theatrics, for lack of betterterm, in, in the behaviors from
the dysfunctional family membersto onto the scapegoat, you'll
stop buying tickets to the show.
Once you see the performativeand the cosmetics of it.
(21:21):
So being criticized is another,you know, sort of backhanded way
of keeping, keeping you in yourplace, so to speak.
And the same rules don't applyto every family member.
So the golden child gets specialtreatment, the scapegoat gets
the silent treatment.
Yeah.
you're kind of a dumping ground.
MaryAnn Walker (21:43):
Yeah.
And'cause as you list off thosethings, so just to kind of recap
those qualities that you shared,it has me thinking that we've
been talking about this in thefamily dynamic, but really these
symptoms you can also see inindividual relationships, you
know, the, the blame, the shamesuccesses are minimized.
Um, you're maybe ignored.
You're downplayed backhandedcriticism.
(22:05):
They're holding other people toa different standard than
they're holding you to, thatthey don't wanna put you back
on.
They don't wanna put you on apedestal'cause you don't belong
there.
So they have to knock you down.
And, and I love how you saidthat once you identify the
theatrics, then you'll stopbuying tickets to the show.
And I think that's where likethe people pleasing comes in, is
we keep thinking if I can begood enough, then they'll treat
me well.
Elle Boone (22:25):
it's a good one.
It's, we wanna be perceived as agood one.
Yeah.
And, and it's about controlreally, and not in an evil
control freak kind of way, butyou are manipulating.
The situation to protectyourself.
It's, it's a coping andprotective mechanism that, can
(22:45):
be learned, can be inherited.
And, you know, we wanna feelsafe.
So if the person we're havingthis relationship with makes us
feel unsafe, we have to createcircumstances, imaginary or
otherwise that allow us to feelsafe so we can continue to
function really.
And protect your nervous systemas well.
(23:07):
'cause sometimes it's, it's hardto confront that someone who you
have loved for so long and issupposed to give that back to
you, It is not working in yourbest interest.
They're manipulating you.
And it makes us shrink.
And then so we think, oh, howwould do, how do we get out of
the smallness?
Well, I'll just buy more thingsfor them.
(23:29):
I'll do more things for them.
And.
It's just a spiral.
And so once you start torecognize the patterns, this is
one of the things that I wannasuggest.
MaryAnn Walker (23:39):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (23:40):
Look at your patterns.
Look at how many times youapologize For, for things that
you know aren't your fault or,watch the behavior of other
people.
When you go to lunch withfriends or when you're at work,
just notice.
How people behave.
You don't have to tell themyou're surveying them, but you
(24:02):
know, just look at how manytimes they apologize or, do they
have patterns in them thatyou're recognizing in yourself
as a way to get some sort oflike reverse engineer mirroring.
Because I think watching otherpeople's behaviors can be really
informative for, for our own,
MaryAnn Walker (24:21):
tell me more about that.
How has observing other peoplehelped you?
Because that's interesting'causethere is that self-reflective
piece.
But when you are observing otherpeople, what else are you
observing besides how oftenthey're apologizing compared to
you?
Like, what are the other thingsthat, kind of struck you as, oh,
that's different.
Elle Boone (24:38):
Yeah.
So some, things that may notrelate to family scapegoating
specifically, but just, um,thinking about some of my
friends who do over apologize.
There's also overgiving.
That's the behavior that I'venoticed, in others and myself.
That's part of the peoplepleasing dynamic.
If I give enough, I'll beconsidered the good one and I
(24:59):
won't be attacked today.
And I can, get through work atleast.
Some of the other behaviors thatI have noticed in people is the
denial behavior.
I've had conversations withfriends where, you know, they're
in bad relationships and I'llgently say, oh,, I think, you
know, have you looked at this?
No, no, no, no, no.
(25:20):
It's, they minimize the issues.
That's, that's another behaviorpattern that I've noticed, and
it's not that I think it's morethat they're, again, they're
protecting their own nervoussystem because if we pull the
curtain all the way back atonce, it's too much.
That's what I did when I firststarted to figure this out,
(25:41):
MaryAnn, I thought I couldYouTube my way out of this
problem in six months.
No.
It's deeper than that.
There's so many layers.
Yeah, tho those are just a fewof the behaviors and it's, it's
interesting to watch even films,you know, ask yourself how are
these characters behaving inthis film?
(26:03):
Am I like them?
Do, do I wanna be more likethem?
Do I wanna be le have less oftheir, those behaviors.
Films are a really good way tolearn about behaviors,
especially.
Specific films that are gearedtoward trauma.
There's actually a film, that Iwanna recommend at the end.
I'm gonna save it for the end.
Don't lemme forget.
MaryAnn Walker (26:24):
Okay.
Elle Boone (26:25):
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (26:27):
Yeah.
Well, and that's so interestingbecause I, I like say how you
said to watch films because I doknow specifically people in
narcissistic relationships,they're, they have a very easy
time identifying who's thenarcissist.
Elle Boone (26:39):
Right.
MaryAnn Walker (26:39):
But to zoom out a little and see if you can
identify, okay, who's the goldenchild, who's the scapegoat,
who's the lost child?
To see if you can identify thoseother roles.
Once you've identified that,okay, this is a familiar thing,
instead of it, it's our tendencyto just focus on the other
person.
Right?
But I like he said, okay, welllook for how it's showing up in
other roles so that you canidentify those parts of self, I
(27:02):
think could be very helpful.
Elle Boone (27:04):
And I think it's easier too than sitting down and
dissecting your own personality.
So for me, when, when I startedto figure out the people
pleasing dynamic in myself,going through all these videos
and learning the, thevocabulary, the nomenclature, I
thought, oh yes, I do that and,and that.
And I kept coming back to peoplepleasing.
(27:25):
And it took me a couple ofyears.
To really dismantle that part ofmy personality because it had
become such a protective energy,in my family dynamic and, and
being an empath and a highlysensitive person.
I feel tomorrow's feelings, youknow, if we feel everything, but
(27:47):
it's, it's a tough role and, Thepeople pleasing for me was the
biggest pattern that I reallystarted to dismantle and
rebuild, and so I had to askmyself often, am I really that
nice?
MaryAnn Walker (28:02):
Hmm.
Elle Boone (28:02):
I really that kind?
Am I really that generous?
And I have always, and I still,because I am a generous person,
I finally figured it out.
Yes, I am kind.
I'm not evil.
I am not what they said I was.
So there's this identity crisis,I think that happens in the
scapegoat role.
I'm actually working on acourse, about rebuilding or, or
(28:25):
healing the identity wound andrebuilding a new identity.
Without the dysfunction becausewe don't know who we are outside
of the dysfunction until westart to rebuild that.
So people pleasing for me wasthe first pattern to go, and I
still to this day wanna helppeople.
If I see someone stranded on theside of the road, my impulse
(28:46):
says, pull over.
And then my safety voice says,what are you thinking?
And then I have to remember, oh,that might be a people pleasing
energy.
that is coming up from my past,but now I can stop it and not
over give.
Which is a huge part of mypeople pleasing problem.
(29:10):
And then I let you know I giveso much and then I don't get
anything back, and then I'mupset.
I'm like, but you're supposed toreciprocate.
I'm supposed to not give somuch.
That's really the dynamic I.
You don't, don't give as much.
Um, and it's hard for someonewho's been a people pleaser for
a long time to suddenly stoppleasing.
MaryAnn Walker (29:31):
For sure.
And to untangle that of tryingto think through.
'cause it's when love has beenconditional for so long.
Elle Boone (29:38):
Mm-hmm.
MaryAnn Walker (29:38):
It's easy to think, okay, well now that I've
broken free, now that I see it,now I can have this.
And then still trying to figureout, okay, well what does it
look like to create balance?
'cause like you said, sometimeswe are overgiving thinking that
then they'll see our value andcome to us, but then we end up
burned out and resentful andlike, okay, well maybe I need to
pull back a little so they canhave the opportunity.
(30:00):
And maybe they will and maybethey won't and but it is
interesting.
And then especially like yousaid, when you're going through
that identity crisis.
That just adds another layerwhere it's like, well, I don't
quite know who I am.
Am I a nice person?
I think that that's gonna bereally impactful for a lot of
people.
'cause I know a lot of thepeople pleasers I've worked
with, they think, well, if I'mnot a people pleaser, I'm gonna
be mean.
(30:22):
It's like, no, you're not a meanperson.
You, you're just not going toover accommodate anymore.
You're going to make sure thatyour own cup is filled and
you're not mean, and you're notevil.
You're not the things thatthey've told you that you are,
but allowing that identity toshed so that you can live more
authentically.
Elle Boone (30:40):
And you said something really beautiful in a
podcast that I watched this weekon the Fear of abandonment.
MaryAnn Walker (30:48):
Hmm
Elle Boone (30:48):
It's, that's true for both scapegoats and others
who have people pleasingtendencies but weren't
scapegoated.
It, it can be, it can be on, onboth sides.
The fear of rejection,abandonment, loss, that's where
that all comes from.
And yeah, it does.
MaryAnn Walker (31:09):
to recap that, that yeah, that, that having
that fear of abandonment leadsto that self abandonment, which
I think is what you were justdescribing, is I don't know who
I am anymore, because I'veabandoned myself in an effort to
please, and
Elle Boone (31:23):
And survive.
MaryAnn Walker (31:24):
losing people that Yeah.
That we abandoned ourself.
Elle Boone (31:26):
Yeah, that is so well said.
We really do.
And, and then we're lost andconfused and depressed and, and
not functioning at our fullcapacity.
So it does take some, like yousaid earlier, some untangling
and the, biggest thing I wanteveryone listening to take away
(31:48):
from this, especially if you'rejust figuring out uhoh, she said
something that makes me possiblybe the scapegoat.
Just take your healing reallyslowly and be intentional about
your healing.
Don't do what I did during thepandemic and over consume to the
point of panic attacks and massconfusion like.
(32:12):
And find community and supportthat, is rooted in, scapegoating
or people pleasing because theycan, they can be different.
And I do wanna talk about thedifference, a little bit of
people pleasing versuscodependency.
Is this something that you'veexplored on your show?
MaryAnn Walker (32:30):
I don't know if I've said it explicitly, so
yeah, share more about that.
Elle Boone (32:34):
Okay, let me, find my notes because.
Scapegoating, and peoplepleasing, they go together.
But I don't, think that ineveryone who's a people pleaser
has been scapegoated.
People pleasing.
Like we said, it comes out ofthe fear of abandonment and
wanting to protect and not loseand keep the status quo and keep
the peace.
(32:54):
With codependency, it's more ofa, survival technique.
Where I've got to find this notebecause I wrote this out and it
was so perfect.
The codependent person isenmeshed with the narcissist, to
the point where, especially withthe golden child, there is a
(33:16):
lack of individuality.
They're so enmeshed they're,kind of one person And so, it's
sort of like codependency islike people pleasing on
steroids.
MaryAnn Walker (33:28):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (33:29):
You're, super enmeshed.
It's a survival mechanism ratherthan seeking approval.
That's one of the bigdifferences, if that makes
sense.
And I know you talk about peoplepleasing a lot on your show.
That's the main focus, right?
MaryAnn Walker (33:45):
yeah.
Elle Boone (33:45):
And have you come across any scapegoat people in
your practice so far?
Is this newer to your ears?
MaryAnn Walker (33:54):
Well, it's interesting because I was
getting requests on YouTube totalk about this, and that was
right when I met you and, so ithas been interesting to see how
it's showing up, but to be ableto put words on the experience,
you know, as you've talked aboutit, I can see more.
Okay.
I can see that.
Many of my clients are going tofit into this role.
But it's, very interesting toactually put a name on it, I
(34:16):
think can help to bring so muchclarity and it helps you to feel
not as alone when you've talkedabout the isolation that can
come with it.
Just putting a word on it canhelp you to feel not so alone
and not so crazy that, well,what, what's wrong with me?
Something must be wrong with mebecause they've always been
telling you that something'swrong with you.
Right?
So it's easy to believe that,but to give it a name and see,
(34:36):
oh, it's not me really.
I think it's just so valuable.
Elle Boone (34:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (34:43):
So I think that we've te Oh, go ahead.
Elle Boone (34:44):
no, no, no, no.
You're good.
You're fine.
Go ahead.
MaryAnn Walker (34:47):
Okay.
So I was gonna say, I think thatwe've teased them enough and I
would love to get a list of yourresources and what supports now
that they're probablyidentifying that, oh, that might
be me.
Tell us more about what supportsyou have found helpful.
Elle Boone (35:01):
So, as I mentioned earlier, the book by Rebecca
Rejected, shamed, and Blamed.
There's an audible version aswell and a hard copy Amazon,
wherever you get your books.
I highly recommend that.
She's also got a pretty strongpresence on, Substack, if you're
familiar with that.
(35:22):
And, that book alone has, donemore for me than.
Than any other research thatI've done, Including all of the
YouTube videos that I'vewatched., There aren't a lot
specifically on the scapegoatrole.
And the same for podcasts.
There just aren't many out thereunfortunately.
The film I wanna suggest is adocumentary by Gabor Mate.
(35:47):
I know I mentioned him the firsttime we met.
Lemme get the titles.
So I don't mess it up.
He's also, what I consider, thisis my own term, sort of the
godfather of trauma.
And he has a number of booksout.
And this movie I watchedsometime during the pandemic,
it's called The Wisdom ofTrauma,
MaryAnn Walker (36:08):
The wisdom of trauma.
Fascinating.
Elle Boone (36:11):
It is.
Yeah, it was for me, it was sortof at the peak of, increasing my
compassion for those who hadscapegoated me in my family,
which is a tough one, and we cancall it forgiveness or
compassion, radical acceptance.
But that comes later.
(36:32):
Like first step, identify yourpatterns, your behaviors,.
Make sure that you know, you,you were the family scapegoat by
that checklist that we wentthrough and do your own
research.
Um, there's another film.
And it's not necessarily onscapegoating, it was done by a
(36:56):
group of people at the uk and ifI can't find it real quick, I
will send it to you so you caninclude it in the show notes.
Um, it was more about narcissismand, it's on YouTube.
That's what it is.
I think it was free.
The Gabor Mate film was adonation based, watch.
(37:16):
Um, so yeah, I'm not finding it,but I will, I will find it and I
will send it to you.
Um, for those who are interestedin learning about the
relationship, it's not a familydynamic.
It was about two people datingand, it was really eyeopening
because like I said,scapegoating can come with
narcissism or without it.
(37:38):
So it's important to understandboth and take your healing
slowly.
I have a couple of other tipsthat I think would help
listeners, look at yourpatterns.
Take your healing slowly, andstart to think about your
identity because this really isan identity crisis in the middle
(38:02):
of it, there's a lot of chaosand confusion that goes with
this role.
But once you start to figure outyour own patterns, then you can
start to rebuild your futurebased on healthier patterns.
That create a life that is moreenjoyable, That invites less,
(38:22):
narcissism and scapegoating'cause that can happen in any
dynamic in any group.
And we talked about thisearlier, people pleasers tend to
be a little bit more vulnerableand open and generous.
So we can be targets for thatkind of energy.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
MaryAnn Walker (38:37):
And I can see how just taking that time to
even think about your ownidentity and how do I see
myself, could be so helpful whenyou're being told that you're
something else.
And of course that's going tocreate an identity crisis
because it's kind ofgaslighting, right?
Saying, no, you are thishorrible being.
It's like, wait, what?
Who am I?
What did I say that?
Did I do that?
So I love those tips.
So you said first identify yourpatterns and behaviors.
(39:00):
Second, take your healingslowly, and third, start to
think about your personalidentity to help to untangle all
of that.
Elle Boone (39:07):
Yeah, and a quote, I, I tried to find where this
came from.
I've seen it a number of times,but it's has stuck and I can't
find the original author, but itstuck with me for years, and
that is to be careful of whatyou tolerate because you are
teaching people how to treat youso good.
Boundaries, right.
Yeah.
(39:28):
but, and noticing your ownpatterns, will help you
identify, oh, this person'sgiving me breadcrumbs.
MaryAnn Walker (39:34):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (39:35):
Hmm.
What am I doing to allow that?
I want the whole loaf.
I don't want just the crumbs.
I deserve more.
But first is the awakening.
You have to figure out, whatyour behavior patterns are.
And just be really easy onyourself.
Just take your time, take it asslow as you can.
Be intentional with your healingbecause don't do what I did over
(39:57):
consume and like the doomscrolling, and then get stuck on
a new influencer on TikTok orwhatever that's giving you new
information about the narcissismin your family.
Like maybe schedule your,intake, the consumption of the
information so that you'rerested and fed and feeling good
and you're of sound mind whenyou're learning about it, so
(40:21):
that you don't get reallyreactive and over emotional and
go into a spiral like I did.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (40:27):
Such good advice.
Yeah.
So what words of encouragementdo you have for those that are
at the beginning of thisjourney?
Elle Boone (40:34):
You know, I would say you, you were never the
problem.
You are, it's not your fault.
You have hidden talents and,and, parts of you that you've
yet to discover that are buriedunder this identity that you
have been given, that's beenforced upon you, and that you've
adopted out of necessity, out ofsurvival.
(40:55):
And just recognize that some,some of that's in the past now,
hopefully most of it, and thatthere is a way out and that you
can heal from this.
But be careful, with your, overconsumption and find community
that understand this dynamicthat can support you and listen
to your story so you can feelseen and heard and validated and
(41:16):
be a contributing member ofsociety rather than reclusive in
your home, In the pantry, if youwill.
MaryAnn Walker (41:25):
Yeah.
Elle Boone (41:25):
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (41:27):
Well, that is beautiful.
Elle, thank you so much forbeing here.
This has been
Elle Boone (41:30):
you.
MaryAnn Walker (41:30):
an amazing conversation.
And tell everybody again, wherecan they find you?
Tell'em the name of yourpodcast.
I'm gonna make sure that thisdrops about the same time so
they can jump over and followyou and subscribe.
'cause like you said, there's sofew resources for those that
have been scapegoated, and Ithink that your channel is going
to be an extremely valuableresource.
So tell us more about how theycan find you.
Elle Boone (41:53):
Thank you.
Yes.
I'm also on Substack.
I don't, engage quite as much asI will after the launch.
And both that and the podcastcan be found.
Uh, there is a trailer out rightnow, I will say not on Apple
because strategically I wannaget as many, uh, reviews to get
us into a higher ranking so wehave more visibility and can
reach more people.
(42:13):
But once that launches, it willgo straight to Apple and it's
called the Family ScapegoatChronicles.
And if, if anyone listening isunfortunately the scapegoat in
your family and you wanna comeon the show, that's gonna be a
huge part of the format where weinterview either anonymously, or
like this on, on camera wherepeople can come and share their
(42:34):
story in a safe space and findcommunity.
MaryAnn Walker (42:37):
That's beautiful because I'm sure that finding
your voice and giving voice tothe ways that you've been
wronged can just be so healingfor people.
And not only that, but hearingthose stories and knowing you're
not alone, I, think that's justgonna be beautiful.
Elle Boone (42:49):
Yeah.
And critical, I think forhealing as well.
And hopefully I can be a, a partof that for many people, because
already I have like 12 or 13different countries that have
listened to the trailer.
So it's a global issue.
It's not, you know, just one ortwo families.
It's a thing.
So I'm so grateful that youinvited me here today because
(43:11):
we're just getting started andyou're kicking it off, so thank
you.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (43:16):
thank you so much and yeah, thank you for all
of the healing that you'rebringing into the world.
It's beautiful to witness.
Elle Boone (43:21):
Thank you.
Likewise.
I love your show.
I love your show.
I can't wait to dig in more.
So,
MaryAnn Walker (43:26):
Oh good.
Well, thank you so much.
I'm glad that we were able toconnect.
Elle Boone (43:29):
yes.
And maybe you can come on ourshow and share your story and,
and expertise.
I think that would be amazing.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (43:38):
I'd love to.
All right.
Well, thank you so mucheverybody for being here.
And as a reminder, you can findall of the resources that Elle
talked about here on the show.
I will link all of them in theshow notes so that you can find
support, community, and healing.
So thank you so much and I'llsee you next week.
Elle Boone (43:53):
Thank you.
Take care.
Bye everyone.
Well, hello and welcome back.
This is Inner Work with MaryAnnWalker, where I help recovering
people, pleasers, identify theroles that are holding them
back.
And as part of that, I want towelcome Elle Boone to the show.
So welcome Elle.
So happy to have you.
Elle Boone (00:32):
Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be here.
I'm very, very excited to havethis conversation with you
today, Marianne.
Thank you for inviting me.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (00:40):
Yeah.
And L is launching a brand newpodcast that really works with a
very specific role that holds alot of people back.
Do you wanna tell us a bit aboutthat?
Elle Boone (00:49):
Yes, so the title of the show, which will launch
somewhere between the end, uh,sorry, the middle and the end of
October, is titled The FamilyScapegoat Chronicles.
And.
The name Scape Family Scapegoat,um, would indicate that the host
is probably from that tribe offamily scapegoats.
(01:09):
Um, so yes, I have a lot ofexperience on that topic and I
wanted to create something thatdidn't exist when I figured out
that I was the family scapegoatand all the dynamics that.
Would allow people not just tolearn more about it, but also to
come on the show and expresstheir feelings about it and
share their story so that otherscan be heard and seen and
(01:32):
validated and, and findcommunity as well.
So I'm excited about that.
Yes, I, I hope that many comeand, and, and get benefit and
value out of it.
For sure.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (01:45):
So for those that are unfamiliar with the
term scapegoat, can you tell usa bit about what that looks
like, especially in a familydynamic?
Elle Boone (01:52):
Yes, yes.
So typically in a familydynamic, it's, I, I wanna
preface it by saying adysfunctional family dynamic
because it is, it's very much,um, a dysfunction.
And the scapegoat role is onethat is assigned, um, to a child
(02:13):
within a family system, and itcan be out of a dysfunctional
family system.
A narcissistic family system ora combination of the two, if
that makes sense.
Um, so one person is singled outto carry the blame and the shame
of the family, and not just thecurrent generation, but previous
(02:36):
generations as well.
It's passed down a little bitlike China
MaryAnn Walker (02:40):
Hmm.
Elle Boone (02:40):
family heirloom.
Um, and so the.
The dysfunction of the family isprojected on the family
scapegoat,
MaryAnn Walker (02:49):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (02:50):
and that person is carrying the wounds of, of the,
the family, um, so that thepeople who are doing the
projection don't have to dealwith the issues
MaryAnn Walker (03:01):
That just sounds like such a huge burden.
I mean, to carry the blame andthe shame of the family.
Um, can you give us an exampleof what that might look like?
I'm sure it's probably somethingthat's harder to identify when
you are the one beingscapegoated.
Elle Boone (03:14):
Yeah, the one thing that comes to mind in terms of
blame,'cause there are three,three components that are really
important.
There's blame, shame, andrejection.
So the blame might look likeeverything is your fault.
In the family dynamic, I used tosay.
When I, before I started tofigure this out, I was living in
New York when nine 11 happened,and I used to joke that it was
(03:36):
my fault.
My family blamed me for thatbecause I was living there.
So all jokes aside, the blameand the shame coupled with the
rejection can really wear downthe scapegoat, which is the
point.
If the scapegoat is contained.
Minimized, reduced, then they'renot so much of a threat as they
(04:00):
are if they are free to be thetruth teller that they are.
And I will say too, that theperson who's chosen to be the
scapegoat is typically theempath, the highly sensitive
person, the truth teller, theone who's not afraid to call out
what's happening in the fam, thefamily dynamic.
So it's, targeted.
(04:22):
And sometimes it's deliberateand conscious and sometimes it's
not conscious.
The family can be in a, state ofdenial in terms of the
dysfunction, and not be fullyconscious of what they're doing
and how they're behaving.
So that adds another layer.
But the rejection, I think is,at least for me, has been the
hardest part.
(04:42):
There is something called.
Family mobbing.
Have you heard that term before?
No,
MaryAnn Walker (04:47):
family mopping?
Elle Boone (04:49):
So family mobbing, it's no picnic.
Let me just say that.
It's when the dysfunctionalfamily unit gangs up against the
chosen scapegoat.
So for example, if somethinggoes wrong in the family, the
scapegoat person who is blamedfor that issue or event,
(05:11):
everybody comes together andit's the narcissist at the head
of, those events that ralliesthe siblings, for example,, and
pits the group against thescapegoat.
So it creates this reallyisolating, lonely, dark
sensation for the scapegoatthat's very confusing.
(05:34):
And it takes time to figure thisout.
And so again, I'm really gladyou're doing this episode
because there isn't enoughcontent out there on this topic,
in my opinion, being ascapegoat, it took a while for
me to figure it out.
I'm only five years into myhealing, and i'm still at the
beginning in many ways torecover from this dynamic
(05:56):
because there's so muchisolation that comes out of, the
family mobbing, you don't haveany allies.
Your siblings become yourenemies on purpose.
And so where do you go?
And when you go to someone inthe family, you're typically
being gaslighted with yourconcerns.
(06:16):
That's not what they said.
I didn't say that.
That's not true.
You're making things up.
You are too dramatic.
Why are you so sensitive?
These are clues for anyonelistening.
If you've been told those thingsin your family dynamic, chances
are you are probably thescapegoat in the family.
MaryAnn Walker (06:35):
So when you're being told those things that, oh
no, you're misremembering,you're being too sensitive, are
the other family members thatare participating in it, is this
something that they'reconsciously doing is trying to
blame and shame, or how doesthat show up?
Elle Boone (06:49):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think it's yes and no.
I think that when it starts,when this dysfunction starts
early on, when the kids arereally young, I think as a
safety and coping mechanism, thesiblings will side with the
parent because it's safer.
If you side with the scapegoat,you could be scapegoated too.
(07:12):
And nobody wants to bescapegoated.
So I think it's a little bit ofboth.
And a lot of us are in thisdenial state where we just don't
see things the way they reallyare.
So we come up with copingmechanisms and catchphrases that
minimize the situation anddeflect so that we don't have to
(07:33):
really dig in and do the workand confront the pain.
MaryAnn Walker (07:36):
Yeah.
And that's fascinating'cause asyou describe it that way, it has
me thinking that yes, I can seehow this could be, you know,
with a narcissistic parent, butalso it sounds like a
significant amount of emotionalimmaturity.
And as you talk about how it'susually the highly sensitive and
the empathic people that arescapegoated, I almost wonder if
it's because they're more awareof emotions and aware of
(07:58):
everybody else's emotions andmaybe those that are less
emotionally mature.
It's, it's always easier toblame somebody else than to take
accountability, isn't it?
Elle Boone (08:06):
Yes.
Yeah.
Always.
Yes, always.
Um, and, and I wanna say toothat the, the scapegoat role can
rotate in the family.
So.
The golden child could becomethe scapegoat and vice versa.
So I've been in, in both roles,uh, this
MaryAnn Walker (08:24):
confusing.
Can you tell more about that?
So, first, describe the goldenChild and the scapegoat, and
what are the differences inthose roles.
But then I really wanna hear howthey can switch.
That's
Elle Boone (08:34):
Yeah.
How they're reassigned.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
So the golden child is the onewho is more enmeshed with the
narcissistic.
I'm gonna use the narcissisticdynamic in this explanation
because while you can bescapegoated in, in a
dysfunctional family thatdoesn't have the narcissistic
(08:56):
element.
MaryAnn Walker (08:56):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (08:57):
It's more common in my experience to have both the
narcissism and the dysfunction.
So the, the narcissist alsoassigns the golden child, the
one who's gonna be morecompliant, who's more like them,
who's not going to resist theprogramming as I call it.
And it's a very unhealthydynamic and it can turn into
(09:21):
such enmeshment that I've heardit called, emotional incest,
which is big, a big phrase.
Um, yeah.
So, but let's say the scapegoatdoes something wonderful and
gets more attention for anylength of time.
They can be sort of reassignedas the golden child.
(09:45):
In that moment and then someoneelse has to become the
scapegoat.
They have to have a scapegoat inthe system so those two roles
can switch.
In my experience, it wastemporary.
So back to the scapegoat role, Iwent and because of my
personality, I'm sensitive, butI'm also very vocal and a truth
(10:07):
teller and I call it the way Isee it, and that rocks the boat.
So hence the family mobbing.
Also, the silent treatment is a,another dynamic in this
dysfunction, where if you dosomething.
That they think is wrong or notin compliance with the family
dysfunctional rules, then youcan be given the silent
(10:31):
treatment and stonewalled, whichfurthers the isolation and
rejection emotions in thescapegoat and can later show up,
as, in my case, as complex PTSD.
It's unresolved unprocessedtrauma.
Emotions and they show up.
We filter every experiencethrough all of our past
(10:54):
experiences.
So, yeah, so the way I figuredthis out, it was just before the
pandemic, and I talk about thisin my first episode that we'll
launch in October.
I'm so excited.
Someone I was working withsuggested that I look at my
patterns and behaviors.
(11:16):
And I said, what, why, what'swrong with my patterns?
And he said, well, I hear yourstories and I feel like the
patterns that you've developedthat you're not really aware of
are coping mechanisms and you'refiltering life through them.
So let's say you get anopportunity, in your career and
(11:40):
in that opportunity and thatexperience, something triggers
inside of you and you'reoperating with your behavior
through that trigger and itruins the opportunity because
you're reading it wrong.
So, yeah, so IW that was when Iwas like, okay, and a few other
things took place and I thought,he's right.
(12:02):
I need to look at my patterns.
And that's one of the tips thatI wanna give at the end when we,
when we talk about tips andresources, because if you can,
and people pleasing too, um, is,is a big pattern of being
scapegoated,
MaryAnn Walker (12:17):
I'm also really curious, like I found it so
interesting as you talked abouthow you could switch back and
forth and how you personally,that was your experience between
being scapegoated and being thegolden child and.
Number one, how disorienting,but also the sporadic
reinforcement of hoping to bethe golden child and thinking,
well, if I can just do the rightthing, I can totally see how
(12:39):
that would lead into thosepeople pleasing tendencies,
because you want to not bescapegoated anymore.
You want to be the golden child.
You want to be the special one,but knowing that you're gonna
get knocked off of that role atany moment, that must be
extremely upsetting to thenervous system.
And, and speaking to that, I'mwondering if you can share with
us some of the signs andsymptoms, of being scapegoated.
(13:01):
You said some of the signs andsymptoms are, it's always your
fault.
Like you joked about that nine11 was your fault.
So even things not related toyou at all, you kind of just
knew it was always gonna be yourfault.
Silent treatment, stonewalling.
What are some of the othersymptoms and, and signs of
scapegoating?
Elle Boone (13:19):
In, in terms of trying to figure out if you've
been scapegoated in your family.
MaryAnn Walker (13:23):
Yeah.
I guess I'm really curious,like, how did you, how did you
put it together?
Like what, what brought it intoyour awareness?
It sounds like it's somethingthat it's often hard to see that
you're experiencing it, so howdid you figure it out?
Elle Boone (13:35):
So it was, there were th two other events that
took place in terms ofidentifying my own behaviors and
some of that included, anxietyand people pleasing.
MaryAnn Walker (13:48):
Hmm.
Elle Boone (13:49):
Um, and when my, friend suggested that I start
looking at my patterns.
I went to YouTube and I startedlooking up as many videos and
books that I could find, on thesubject of narcissism, family
dysfunction, and all of thosethings.
And that's when I started toidentify with, oh, silent
treatment.
(14:09):
That's, oh, gaslighting.
There's a whole list of,nomenclature is, is a term I
use, like it's the vocabularyfor this.
So I started looking into all ofthose different elements in,
that dysfunction, and firstidentified with the experiences
that I had under that lens.
(14:31):
And then just looking for,information.
And when I finally got to thepoint where I, found what I was
looking for, it was about two orthree years in from that first
event and I was on.
During the pandemic when we allhad a lot of time, I was on a
Facebook, group page aboutnarcissism, I'm sure, and I was
(14:54):
reading comments.
And in the comments someonesuggested a book
MaryAnn Walker (14:58):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (14:59):
that was written by Rebecca c Mandeville.
This is one of my, tips at theend for references and
resources.
I wanna get the name of the bookright, so I have to look it up.
Blamed, shamed, and Reject.
No, rejected, blamed and Shamed.
I sometimes get those backwards.
I'm so sorry.
MaryAnn Walker (15:21):
Oh, it's just fine.
And I'll link that in the shownotes for everybody too.
Elle Boone (15:24):
Rejected, shamed, and Blamed.
Yes.
So she wrote this book.
She is a licensed familytherapist and a life coach, and
she wrote this book thatdescribes my entire experience
MaryAnn Walker (15:39):
Wow.
Elle Boone (15:40):
on family scapegoating.
She's coined the term familyscapegoating abuse and has a
peer review study out andanother one in the making, which
is important because that givesthis.
Dynamic, more exposure and morepeople, with opportunities to
learn about what they might havebeen through.
Because for me it was, I justwalked around with a chip on my
(16:01):
shoulder and this anxietythinking, oh, this is just who I
am.
No, it's, it was my programmingand my conditioning and my
upbringing.
So once I got the vocabularydown, I knew what to look for.
Not just in information, butalso my behaviors and my
patterns, so I could start tobreak those cycles within my own
(16:23):
family.
Yeah, Did that answer yourquestion?
MaryAnn Walker (16:27):
that does answer my question beautifully.
And I'm also curious, I'm goingback again to the switching back
and forth between the scapegoatand the golden child.
If, from your experience, wasthat often, like, I wonder if
that was even weaponized, likecomparison with why can't you be
like them?
Is that another symptom of beingscapegoated, or what was your
(16:47):
experience there?
Elle Boone (16:48):
It can be, yes.
It wasn't my experience.
Um, I will say though, that.
Especially in the narcissisticdynamic, the narcissist is very
interested in and protective ofimage, the family
MaryAnn Walker (17:03):
Hmm.
Elle Boone (17:04):
And I thought about this earlier today in,
anticipation of meeting withyou, and I feel like in, my
upbringing there was a a lot oflack financially.
And, and I, so maybe that's whyI didn't experience it.
And I feel like families thatare more affluent might have
more to be concerned about interms of image.
(17:28):
So, yeah, that's, that was mytake earlier today.
When I thought about it, therewe didn't have a lot to be
concerned about in terms ofpublic facing personas.
So, So, no.
Um, and the, and when the rolesswitched, it wasn't necessarily
scapegoat to golden child andback.
Sometimes it's the scapegoat tothe lost child.
(17:53):
Which is another element, getsif the scapegoat leaves and
goes, no contact.
That's a term that's reallypopular right now.
Um, someone else has to takethat role on.
So it can be reassigned in thatway to another sibling.
And it's not typically thegolden child in my experience.
(18:14):
It's the lost child or, someoneelse in the system that's, not
already been the golden child.
Because that rearing from myexperience, started at a very
young age.
The golden child is conditionedand programmed, from a very,
very young age, and I see itmore with a mother and son
MaryAnn Walker (18:32):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (18:33):
than a mother and daughter dynamic in terms of the
golden child, so, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (18:40):
can you kind of give us a little bit more
information about, who is thelost child?
Like how would you describe thelost child?
Elle Boone (18:47):
Uh, it's in my experience, it's, it's someone
who's been, sort of ignored inthe sense that they weren't
given opportunities that otherkids are dynamic in that sy that
system.
Maybe they didn't excel inschool as much.
So they just kind of get washedinto the background.
(19:08):
Um, and not, given what, what,definitely not what they needed
for sure.
So they just kind of becomequiet and voiceless.
My experience.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (19:20):
Okay, and so tell me if I'm understanding
this correctly.
So then both the golden childand the scapegoat are getting a
lot of attention, thoughdifferent kinds of attention.
And then the lost child is, theone that's kind of ignored and
neglected.
And then those roles kind of canrotate and shift around
depending on.
Elle Boone (19:37):
Mm-hmm.
MaryAnn Walker (19:38):
What is gonna put forth the best image in the
moment it sounds like.
Elle Boone (19:42):
And protect the denial system that is such, has
such a stronghold on especiallythe, the dysfunctional families.
And what I mean by dysfunctionis unresolved trauma of their
own.
It can be alcoholism, drugaddiction.
All of those things are underthat dysfunctional umbrella.
When I say dysfunctional.
Yeah.
(20:03):
So there's, there's a lot of.
I think in every role, includingthe narcissist and maybe
especially a lot of unprocessedtrauma.
MaryAnn Walker (20:13):
Yeah, sounds like it.
Elle Boone (20:14):
There are a couple of other things that I have in
my notes that in terms of peopletrying to identify whether
they've been scapegoated, That Ithink are important.
If I can just take a quickglance here.
Okay.
So here, here are a few things.
That are really common, that ascapegoat, a family scapegoat
(20:36):
can experience.
They're, like I said earlier,they're blamed for everything.
When anything goes wrong, it'stheir fault.
Ironically, your successes areminimized.
they're ignored or downplayed.
They don't wanna put you on apedestal.
That role is taken in thismovie.
(20:57):
Right.
And I'll say too that, you know,once you start to identify the
theatrics, for lack of betterterm, in, in the behaviors from
the dysfunctional family membersto onto the scapegoat, you'll
stop buying tickets to the show.
Once you see the performativeand the cosmetics of it.
(21:21):
So being criticized is another,you know, sort of backhanded way
of keeping, keeping you in yourplace, so to speak.
And the same rules don't applyto every family member.
So the golden child gets specialtreatment, the scapegoat gets
the silent treatment.
Yeah.
you're kind of a dumping ground.
MaryAnn Walker (21:43):
Yeah.
And'cause as you list off thosethings, so just to kind of recap
those qualities that you shared,it has me thinking that we've
been talking about this in thefamily dynamic, but really these
symptoms you can also see inindividual relationships, you
know, the, the blame, the shamesuccesses are minimized.
Um, you're maybe ignored.
You're downplayed backhandedcriticism.
(22:05):
They're holding other people toa different standard than
they're holding you to, thatthey don't wanna put you back
on.
They don't wanna put you on apedestal'cause you don't belong
there.
So they have to knock you down.
And, and I love how you saidthat once you identify the
theatrics, then you'll stopbuying tickets to the show.
And I think that's where likethe people pleasing comes in, is
we keep thinking if I can begood enough, then they'll treat
me well.
Elle Boone (22:25):
it's a good one.
It's, we wanna be perceived as agood one.
Yeah.
And, and it's about controlreally, and not in an evil
control freak kind of way, butyou are manipulating.
The situation to protectyourself.
It's, it's a coping andprotective mechanism that, can
(22:45):
be learned, can be inherited.
And, you know, we wanna feelsafe.
So if the person we're havingthis relationship with makes us
feel unsafe, we have to createcircumstances, imaginary or
otherwise that allow us to feelsafe so we can continue to
function really.
And protect your nervous systemas well.
(23:07):
'cause sometimes it's, it's hardto confront that someone who you
have loved for so long and issupposed to give that back to
you, It is not working in yourbest interest.
They're manipulating you.
And it makes us shrink.
And then so we think, oh, howwould do, how do we get out of
the smallness?
Well, I'll just buy more thingsfor them.
(23:29):
I'll do more things for them.
And.
It's just a spiral.
And so once you start torecognize the patterns, this is
one of the things that I wannasuggest.
MaryAnn Walker (23:39):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (23:40):
Look at your patterns.
Look at how many times youapologize For, for things that
you know aren't your fault or,watch the behavior of other
people.
When you go to lunch withfriends or when you're at work,
just notice.
How people behave.
You don't have to tell themyou're surveying them, but you
(24:02):
know, just look at how manytimes they apologize or, do they
have patterns in them thatyou're recognizing in yourself
as a way to get some sort oflike reverse engineer mirroring.
Because I think watching otherpeople's behaviors can be really
informative for, for our own,
MaryAnn Walker (24:21):
tell me more about that.
How has observing other peoplehelped you?
Because that's interesting'causethere is that self-reflective
piece.
But when you are observing otherpeople, what else are you
observing besides how oftenthey're apologizing compared to
you?
Like, what are the other thingsthat, kind of struck you as, oh,
that's different.
Elle Boone (24:38):
Yeah.
So some, things that may notrelate to family scapegoating
specifically, but just, um,thinking about some of my
friends who do over apologize.
There's also overgiving.
That's the behavior that I'venoticed, in others and myself.
That's part of the peoplepleasing dynamic.
If I give enough, I'll beconsidered the good one and I
(24:59):
won't be attacked today.
And I can, get through work atleast.
Some of the other behaviors thatI have noticed in people is the
denial behavior.
I've had conversations withfriends where, you know, they're
in bad relationships and I'llgently say, oh,, I think, you
know, have you looked at this?
No, no, no, no, no.
(25:20):
It's, they minimize the issues.
That's, that's another behaviorpattern that I've noticed, and
it's not that I think it's morethat they're, again, they're
protecting their own nervoussystem because if we pull the
curtain all the way back atonce, it's too much.
That's what I did when I firststarted to figure this out,
(25:41):
MaryAnn, I thought I couldYouTube my way out of this
problem in six months.
No.
It's deeper than that.
There's so many layers.
Yeah, tho those are just a fewof the behaviors and it's, it's
interesting to watch even films,you know, ask yourself how are
these characters behaving inthis film?
(26:03):
Am I like them?
Do, do I wanna be more likethem?
Do I wanna be le have less oftheir, those behaviors.
Films are a really good way tolearn about behaviors,
especially.
Specific films that are gearedtoward trauma.
There's actually a film, that Iwanna recommend at the end.
I'm gonna save it for the end.
Don't lemme forget.
MaryAnn Walker (26:24):
Okay.
Elle Boone (26:25):
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (26:27):
Yeah.
Well, and that's so interestingbecause I, I like say how you
said to watch films because I doknow specifically people in
narcissistic relationships,they're, they have a very easy
time identifying who's thenarcissist.
Elle Boone (26:39):
Right.
MaryAnn Walker (26:39):
But to zoom out a little and see if you can
identify, okay, who's the goldenchild, who's the scapegoat,
who's the lost child?
To see if you can identify thoseother roles.
Once you've identified that,okay, this is a familiar thing,
instead of it, it's our tendencyto just focus on the other
person.
Right?
But I like he said, okay, welllook for how it's showing up in
other roles so that you canidentify those parts of self, I
(27:02):
think could be very helpful.
Elle Boone (27:04):
And I think it's easier too than sitting down and
dissecting your own personality.
So for me, when, when I startedto figure out the people
pleasing dynamic in myself,going through all these videos
and learning the, thevocabulary, the nomenclature, I
thought, oh yes, I do that and,and that.
And I kept coming back to peoplepleasing.
(27:25):
And it took me a couple ofyears.
To really dismantle that part ofmy personality because it had
become such a protective energy,in my family dynamic and, and
being an empath and a highlysensitive person.
I feel tomorrow's feelings, youknow, if we feel everything, but
(27:47):
it's, it's a tough role and, Thepeople pleasing for me was the
biggest pattern that I reallystarted to dismantle and
rebuild, and so I had to askmyself often, am I really that
nice?
MaryAnn Walker (28:02):
Hmm.
Elle Boone (28:02):
I really that kind?
Am I really that generous?
And I have always, and I still,because I am a generous person,
I finally figured it out.
Yes, I am kind.
I'm not evil.
I am not what they said I was.
So there's this identity crisis,I think that happens in the
scapegoat role.
I'm actually working on acourse, about rebuilding or, or
(28:25):
healing the identity wound andrebuilding a new identity.
Without the dysfunction becausewe don't know who we are outside
of the dysfunction until westart to rebuild that.
So people pleasing for me wasthe first pattern to go, and I
still to this day wanna helppeople.
If I see someone stranded on theside of the road, my impulse
(28:46):
says, pull over.
And then my safety voice says,what are you thinking?
And then I have to remember, oh,that might be a people pleasing
energy.
that is coming up from my past,but now I can stop it and not
over give.
Which is a huge part of mypeople pleasing problem.
(29:10):
And then I let you know I giveso much and then I don't get
anything back, and then I'mupset.
I'm like, but you're supposed toreciprocate.
I'm supposed to not give somuch.
That's really the dynamic I.
You don't, don't give as much.
Um, and it's hard for someonewho's been a people pleaser for
a long time to suddenly stoppleasing.
MaryAnn Walker (29:31):
For sure.
And to untangle that of tryingto think through.
'cause it's when love has beenconditional for so long.
Elle Boone (29:38):
Mm-hmm.
MaryAnn Walker (29:38):
It's easy to think, okay, well now that I've
broken free, now that I see it,now I can have this.
And then still trying to figureout, okay, well what does it
look like to create balance?
'cause like you said, sometimeswe are overgiving thinking that
then they'll see our value andcome to us, but then we end up
burned out and resentful andlike, okay, well maybe I need to
pull back a little so they canhave the opportunity.
(30:00):
And maybe they will and maybethey won't and but it is
interesting.
And then especially like yousaid, when you're going through
that identity crisis.
That just adds another layerwhere it's like, well, I don't
quite know who I am.
Am I a nice person?
I think that that's gonna bereally impactful for a lot of
people.
'cause I know a lot of thepeople pleasers I've worked
with, they think, well, if I'mnot a people pleaser, I'm gonna
be mean.
(30:22):
It's like, no, you're not a meanperson.
You, you're just not going toover accommodate anymore.
You're going to make sure thatyour own cup is filled and
you're not mean, and you're notevil.
You're not the things thatthey've told you that you are,
but allowing that identity toshed so that you can live more
authentically.
Elle Boone (30:40):
And you said something really beautiful in a
podcast that I watched this weekon the Fear of abandonment.
MaryAnn Walker (30:48):
Hmm
Elle Boone (30:48):
It's, that's true for both scapegoats and others
who have people pleasingtendencies but weren't
scapegoated.
It, it can be, it can be on, onboth sides.
The fear of rejection,abandonment, loss, that's where
that all comes from.
And yeah, it does.
MaryAnn Walker (31:09):
to recap that, that yeah, that, that having
that fear of abandonment leadsto that self abandonment, which
I think is what you were justdescribing, is I don't know who
I am anymore, because I'veabandoned myself in an effort to
please, and
Elle Boone (31:23):
And survive.
MaryAnn Walker (31:24):
losing people that Yeah.
That we abandoned ourself.
Elle Boone (31:26):
Yeah, that is so well said.
We really do.
And, and then we're lost andconfused and depressed and, and
not functioning at our fullcapacity.
So it does take some, like yousaid earlier, some untangling
and the, biggest thing I wanteveryone listening to take away
(31:48):
from this, especially if you'rejust figuring out uhoh, she said
something that makes me possiblybe the scapegoat.
Just take your healing reallyslowly and be intentional about
your healing.
Don't do what I did during thepandemic and over consume to the
point of panic attacks and massconfusion like.
(32:12):
And find community and supportthat, is rooted in, scapegoating
or people pleasing because theycan, they can be different.
And I do wanna talk about thedifference, a little bit of
people pleasing versuscodependency.
Is this something that you'veexplored on your show?
MaryAnn Walker (32:30):
I don't know if I've said it explicitly, so
yeah, share more about that.
Elle Boone (32:34):
Okay, let me, find my notes because.
Scapegoating, and peoplepleasing, they go together.
But I don't, think that ineveryone who's a people pleaser
has been scapegoated.
People pleasing.
Like we said, it comes out ofthe fear of abandonment and
wanting to protect and not loseand keep the status quo and keep
the peace.
(32:54):
With codependency, it's more ofa, survival technique.
Where I've got to find this notebecause I wrote this out and it
was so perfect.
The codependent person isenmeshed with the narcissist, to
the point where, especially withthe golden child, there is a
(33:16):
lack of individuality.
They're so enmeshed they're,kind of one person And so, it's
sort of like codependency islike people pleasing on
steroids.
MaryAnn Walker (33:28):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (33:29):
You're, super enmeshed.
It's a survival mechanism ratherthan seeking approval.
That's one of the bigdifferences, if that makes
sense.
And I know you talk about peoplepleasing a lot on your show.
That's the main focus, right?
MaryAnn Walker (33:45):
yeah.
Elle Boone (33:45):
And have you come across any scapegoat people in
your practice so far?
Is this newer to your ears?
MaryAnn Walker (33:54):
Well, it's interesting because I was
getting requests on YouTube totalk about this, and that was
right when I met you and, so ithas been interesting to see how
it's showing up, but to be ableto put words on the experience,
you know, as you've talked aboutit, I can see more.
Okay.
I can see that.
Many of my clients are going tofit into this role.
But it's, very interesting toactually put a name on it, I
(34:16):
think can help to bring so muchclarity and it helps you to feel
not as alone when you've talkedabout the isolation that can
come with it.
Just putting a word on it canhelp you to feel not so alone
and not so crazy that, well,what, what's wrong with me?
Something must be wrong with mebecause they've always been
telling you that something'swrong with you.
Right?
So it's easy to believe that,but to give it a name and see,
(34:36):
oh, it's not me really.
I think it's just so valuable.
Elle Boone (34:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (34:43):
So I think that we've te Oh, go ahead.
Elle Boone (34:44):
no, no, no, no.
You're good.
You're fine.
Go ahead.
MaryAnn Walker (34:47):
Okay.
So I was gonna say, I think thatwe've teased them enough and I
would love to get a list of yourresources and what supports now
that they're probablyidentifying that, oh, that might
be me.
Tell us more about what supportsyou have found helpful.
Elle Boone (35:01):
So, as I mentioned earlier, the book by Rebecca
Rejected, shamed, and Blamed.
There's an audible version aswell and a hard copy Amazon,
wherever you get your books.
I highly recommend that.
She's also got a pretty strongpresence on, Substack, if you're
familiar with that.
(35:22):
And, that book alone has, donemore for me than.
Than any other research thatI've done, Including all of the
YouTube videos that I'vewatched., There aren't a lot
specifically on the scapegoatrole.
And the same for podcasts.
There just aren't many out thereunfortunately.
The film I wanna suggest is adocumentary by Gabor Mate.
(35:47):
I know I mentioned him the firsttime we met.
Lemme get the titles.
So I don't mess it up.
He's also, what I consider, thisis my own term, sort of the
godfather of trauma.
And he has a number of booksout.
And this movie I watchedsometime during the pandemic,
it's called The Wisdom ofTrauma,
MaryAnn Walker (36:08):
The wisdom of trauma.
Fascinating.
Elle Boone (36:11):
It is.
Yeah, it was for me, it was sortof at the peak of, increasing my
compassion for those who hadscapegoated me in my family,
which is a tough one, and we cancall it forgiveness or
compassion, radical acceptance.
But that comes later.
(36:32):
Like first step, identify yourpatterns, your behaviors,.
Make sure that you know, you,you were the family scapegoat by
that checklist that we wentthrough and do your own
research.
Um, there's another film.
And it's not necessarily onscapegoating, it was done by a
(36:56):
group of people at the uk and ifI can't find it real quick, I
will send it to you so you caninclude it in the show notes.
Um, it was more about narcissismand, it's on YouTube.
That's what it is.
I think it was free.
The Gabor Mate film was adonation based, watch.
(37:16):
Um, so yeah, I'm not finding it,but I will, I will find it and I
will send it to you.
Um, for those who are interestedin learning about the
relationship, it's not a familydynamic.
It was about two people datingand, it was really eyeopening
because like I said,scapegoating can come with
narcissism or without it.
(37:38):
So it's important to understandboth and take your healing
slowly.
I have a couple of other tipsthat I think would help
listeners, look at yourpatterns.
Take your healing slowly, andstart to think about your
identity because this really isan identity crisis in the middle
(38:02):
of it, there's a lot of chaosand confusion that goes with
this role.
But once you start to figure outyour own patterns, then you can
start to rebuild your futurebased on healthier patterns.
That create a life that is moreenjoyable, That invites less,
(38:22):
narcissism and scapegoating'cause that can happen in any
dynamic in any group.
And we talked about thisearlier, people pleasers tend to
be a little bit more vulnerableand open and generous.
So we can be targets for thatkind of energy.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
MaryAnn Walker (38:37):
And I can see how just taking that time to
even think about your ownidentity and how do I see
myself, could be so helpful whenyou're being told that you're
something else.
And of course that's going tocreate an identity crisis
because it's kind ofgaslighting, right?
Saying, no, you are thishorrible being.
It's like, wait, what?
Who am I?
What did I say that?
Did I do that?
So I love those tips.
So you said first identify yourpatterns and behaviors.
(39:00):
Second, take your healingslowly, and third, start to
think about your personalidentity to help to untangle all
of that.
Elle Boone (39:07):
Yeah, and a quote, I, I tried to find where this
came from.
I've seen it a number of times,but it's has stuck and I can't
find the original author, but itstuck with me for years, and
that is to be careful of whatyou tolerate because you are
teaching people how to treat youso good.
Boundaries, right.
Yeah.
(39:28):
but, and noticing your ownpatterns, will help you
identify, oh, this person'sgiving me breadcrumbs.
MaryAnn Walker (39:34):
Mm-hmm.
Elle Boone (39:35):
Hmm.
What am I doing to allow that?
I want the whole loaf.
I don't want just the crumbs.
I deserve more.
But first is the awakening.
You have to figure out, whatyour behavior patterns are.
And just be really easy onyourself.
Just take your time, take it asslow as you can.
Be intentional with your healingbecause don't do what I did over
(39:57):
consume and like the doomscrolling, and then get stuck on
a new influencer on TikTok orwhatever that's giving you new
information about the narcissismin your family.
Like maybe schedule your,intake, the consumption of the
information so that you'rerested and fed and feeling good
and you're of sound mind whenyou're learning about it, so
(40:21):
that you don't get reallyreactive and over emotional and
go into a spiral like I did.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (40:27):
Such good advice.
Yeah.
So what words of encouragementdo you have for those that are
at the beginning of thisjourney?
Elle Boone (40:34):
You know, I would say you, you were never the
problem.
You are, it's not your fault.
You have hidden talents and,and, parts of you that you've
yet to discover that are buriedunder this identity that you
have been given, that's beenforced upon you, and that you've
adopted out of necessity, out ofsurvival.
(40:55):
And just recognize that some,some of that's in the past now,
hopefully most of it, and thatthere is a way out and that you
can heal from this.
But be careful, with your, overconsumption and find community
that understand this dynamicthat can support you and listen
to your story so you can feelseen and heard and validated and
(41:16):
be a contributing member ofsociety rather than reclusive in
your home, In the pantry, if youwill.
MaryAnn Walker (41:25):
Yeah.
Elle Boone (41:25):
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (41:27):
Well, that is beautiful.
Elle, thank you so much forbeing here.
This has been
Elle Boone (41:30):
you.
MaryAnn Walker (41:30):
an amazing conversation.
And tell everybody again, wherecan they find you?
Tell'em the name of yourpodcast.
I'm gonna make sure that thisdrops about the same time so
they can jump over and followyou and subscribe.
'cause like you said, there's sofew resources for those that
have been scapegoated, and Ithink that your channel is going
to be an extremely valuableresource.
So tell us more about how theycan find you.
Elle Boone (41:53):
Thank you.
Yes.
I'm also on Substack.
I don't, engage quite as much asI will after the launch.
And both that and the podcastcan be found.
Uh, there is a trailer out rightnow, I will say not on Apple
because strategically I wannaget as many, uh, reviews to get
us into a higher ranking so wehave more visibility and can
reach more people.
(42:13):
But once that launches, it willgo straight to Apple and it's
called the Family ScapegoatChronicles.
And if, if anyone listening isunfortunately the scapegoat in
your family and you wanna comeon the show, that's gonna be a
huge part of the format where weinterview either anonymously, or
like this on, on camera wherepeople can come and share their
(42:34):
story in a safe space and findcommunity.
MaryAnn Walker (42:37):
That's beautiful because I'm sure that finding
your voice and giving voice tothe ways that you've been
wronged can just be so healingfor people.
And not only that, but hearingthose stories and knowing you're
not alone, I, think that's justgonna be beautiful.
Elle Boone (42:49):
Yeah.
And critical, I think forhealing as well.
And hopefully I can be a, a partof that for many people, because
already I have like 12 or 13different countries that have
listened to the trailer.
So it's a global issue.
It's not, you know, just one ortwo families.
It's a thing.
So I'm so grateful that youinvited me here today because
(43:11):
we're just getting started andyou're kicking it off, so thank
you.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (43:16):
thank you so much and yeah, thank you for all
of the healing that you'rebringing into the world.
It's beautiful to witness.
Elle Boone (43:21):
Thank you.
Likewise.
I love your show.
I love your show.
I can't wait to dig in more.
So,
MaryAnn Walker (43:26):
Oh good.
Well, thank you so much.
I'm glad that we were able toconnect.
Elle Boone (43:29):
yes.
And maybe you can come on ourshow and share your story and,
and expertise.
I think that would be amazing.
Yeah.
MaryAnn Walker (43:38):
I'd love to.
All right.
Well, thank you so mucheverybody for being here.
And as a reminder, you can findall of the resources that Elle
talked about here on the show.
I will link all of them in theshow notes so that you can find
support, community, and healing.
So thank you so much and I'llsee you next week.
Elle Boone (43:53):
Thank you.
Take care.
Bye everyone.
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