December 11, 2025 • 43 mins
If you’ve ever felt like you had to keep it all together, even when you were running on empty, this episode will feel like a deep exhale. Together, we explore how letting go of perfection and focusing on feeling just 10% better can become a gentle, sustainable path toward healing and self-connection.
In this episode, I’m joined by my friend, author, and public speaker, Marissa Campbell, for a heartfelt conversation about burnout, emotional exhaustion, and learning how to come back home to yourself.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
- Why burnout often hides behind busyness and people-pleasing
- The power of checking in with your emotional battery before you hit empty
- How to let go of thinking healing takes time and shift to feeling “10% better” today.
- Simple, somatic ways to reconnect with your body and emotions
- How to identify your early warning signs of emotional depletion
- What it really means to lead — and live — from the heart
Challenge for the Week
Pause once today to ask yourself:
🩵 "How full is my battery and what emotion am I experiencing right now?”
Then give yourself permission to honor whatever answer arises with no expectations.
*Bonus* Ask yourself what might help to charge your battery, and give it to yourself. Small steps count. They build momentum. And they remind you that you are worthy of care, even in the smallest of ways.
Work With Me
If you’re ready to stop running on empty and start rebuilding from a place of peace and self-trust, I’d love to help.
You can book a free clarity call to explore how coaching can support you at calendly.com/maryannwalkerlife/freeconsult
Don’t Forget to Subscribe
If this episode resonated with you, be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode!
Links Mentioned in This Episode
- Connect with guest Marissa Campbell on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mc.speaks/
- Purchase your copy of Lead With Heart: https://amzn.to/3JxdByw
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (00:18):
Well, hello and welcome back.
I am your host, MaryAnn Walker,and I help highly sensitive
women break free from burnout,and that is exactly why I am so
excited for today's guest.
Marissa Campbell is here with ustoday.
Hello Marissa.
Hi.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (00:33):
Hi, how are you?
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm like super excited.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_ (00:37):
Oh, me too.
Yeah.
So Marissa is a public speaker.
She's the host of the Art ofHeart podcast and the author of
Lead With Heart, the NewBlueprint for a Noisy, burned
Out World.
And as you may remember, Marissaand I recently reconnected when
I was a guest on her podcast, sogo and check that out.
I'll link that in the shownotes.
(00:58):
But as she and I were catchingup.
Then I learned about her newbook that is now officially out,
which is super exciting.
Um, but it is all about burnout.
And so yeah.
Marissa, thank you so much forbeing here
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (01:12):
This is so exciting and it's, it's so
cool because we had such a greattime on my podcast and when you
were like, Hey, do you wanna beon mine?
I'm like, that would be soincredible.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (01:21):
Yeah, I think our audiences are very
aligned and so it's really funto just, uh, I just loved how
much we were vibing and verysimilar experiences and
different things, so, yeah.
So before we dive in, would youtell us a little bit more about
your lived experience and howyou got to where you are today?
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (01:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I am just really learning howto navigate this crazy human
experience in a way that, iskind of new to me.
I spent many years in corporateAmerica climbing the ladder,
and, I have a startup, which issuper fun.
And if you would've asked me sixmonths ago.
Probably eight months ago, whatthe most important thing in my
life was I would've set asuccessful exit.
(01:58):
And for those of you who aren'tfamiliar with startup land, it's
when there is some type offinancial exchange for your
company and makes you as a humanin the business world.
And I'm doing air quote, supervaluable.
'cause then you can go andfundraise and do anything your
heart desires.
And so it's like the ultimategoal in startup land.
Um, then through a series ofevents, I realized.
(02:20):
I didn't actually care aboutthose things anymore.
And it's not that I don't wannawork hard, but that I, I don't,
that isn't what brings me joy.
And it led me to build,, leadwith heart and then, art of
heart in parallel because we arethis and that.
And so I, am Super lucky to havetraveled most of the country.
My last, state is Hawaii and um,I get to be an aunt, which is
(02:41):
amazing, and I'm just reallyexcited to begin this new
chapter as the version of me wholooks like this, but is super
different on the inside.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (02:50):
Yeah, so just to give a little plug
for your podcast.
Tell us a little bit about whatyou do over there.
'cause I think that my audiencewill be very intrigued.
marissa-campbell_1_ (02:58):
Absolutely.
So Art of Heart is really like,so when I went through this
journey about five months ago, Ihad a somatic release, which
basically just means I releaseda whole bunch of trauma and I
was in the throes of burnout andI was really unhappy and I was
like unhappy to my core, in away that everybody kind of
didn't get.
And so through this process, Idid a couple things.
Number one, I reconnected witha, a train of thought that I
(03:20):
learned many years ago incounseling, which is what does
your heart look like?
And so I'm sitting in a hotelroom in Sacramento, California,
and I had just gone through thissomatic release and I was like.
What does my heart look like?
And so I started journaling andI, I call them way points.
So the way points are like thebig things that if you were like
getting to know somebody or yourfamily or friends were sitting
(03:42):
around, they would talk aboutbig moments, right?
These are way points.
And so I started.
Thinking about what my heartlooked like in those points.
And so I literally, and we talk,like on the podcast, people show
their hearts and they're thesebeautiful, vivid images.
But the idea is that we createcommon language that puts color
to those feelings, right?
Because if I just say I'm sad.
(04:04):
That's if you, like, they messedup your coffee order and like
you bummed for the day versusthe one year anniversary of your
dad dying and you just don'tfeel put together and there's
pieces that are still uncertain.
So the, the language that wehave, I think is super limiting.
So I started making way likedrawings on my way points and
putting words together.
And I realized, number one, allthe things I thought brought me
(04:25):
joy did not, which was like abig shocking moment.
And the more I started askingpeople about, you know, their
lives and how the people werelike, oh, I'm having a hard day.
And I'd be like, well, tell memore what you know, what does
your heart look like?
And all of a sudden I wasgetting these really shocking
answers people who I thoughtwere okay, were absolutely not
okay.
(04:45):
And people who were...
they seem to be not okay.
We're really just, somebody hadmessed up their coffee order and
so I was like, Hey, listen,these, as I was having these
conversations, these storieswere helping me to unravel what
was inside me by talking toother people and asking, what
does your heart look like?
And I'm like, there's so manystories that need to be told.
(05:06):
And with every story and everytime I was bringing this up to
people, I'd get text messages atthree o'clock in the morning.
I don't like you.
I stop thinking about what myheart looks like.
I realize I don't have any joy,I can't, I can't find any good
moments.
Everything is hard.
And I'm like, wow, there'ssomething here.
So that's why I started Art ofHeart.
(05:27):
And every week people share thegood, the hard and the aha
moments of their life and whattheir heart looked like.
And hopefully somebody on theother side will be able to say,
oh, they got through that reallyhard, hard chapter.
I can too, or to seecommonalities and start to
reflect on their own heart.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (05:45):
That is so beautiful and tying that
together with your somaticexperience, I, me as a guest on
your show, it was veryinteresting.
Because you let me know, Hey,I'm gonna be asking you these
questions and, and trying tohelp me to narrow it down.
And even just the process ofthinking through what does my
heart look like was, for me, asomatic experience.
(06:06):
It, it compels you to actuallyfeel and process the emotion.
Which is such an interestingthing.
'cause so much of life, I thinkthat we're kind of resisting it
or pretending it doesn't exist,putting on that fake smile, but
to really sit with it and belike, Hmm, like this is
something deeper and, and yeah,this is heavier than getting a
mixed up coffee order.
(06:26):
Right?
So I think it's really beautifulwhat it is that you're doing.
And I was unaware that youstarted the podcast and writing
this book at the same time.
So tell me how those two areconnected.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-202 (06:37):
So I'm this and that, and we all
are right?
Like we are not just one thing.
And I've always been superdriven in business.
I'm an excellent problem solver.
I am the go-to person.
Like if things have gonesideways, whether I work in, in
a company, or whether I used towork there, I still get phone
calls from companies who arelike, how do I fix this?
Right?
I'm an excellent problem solverand I build amazing
relationships.
And that business, thatanalytical part of my mind, that
(06:59):
thing that I do that solves theproblem, right, or makes the
thing or grows the thing is alsoattached to this human who has
feelings.
And like today I was driving inthe car listening to Brene
Brown's new book.
And um, she is telling the storyabout mission, like making sure
everybody understands themission and she tells the story,
(07:21):
by the way, if you haven't readthe book, everybody should.
It's amazing.
I love her.
But this book specifically likereally spoke to me.
Um, so she's tells a story.
She's at St.
Jude's hospital for children andshe goes into the elevator and
um, there's a woman and there'slike a double decker dessert
cart.
And she says, hi, how are youtoday?
And she's like, hi.
And she says, the lady, what doyou do here?
(07:42):
And the lady says, I curecancer.
I.
And the idea that everyone onthat team, whether you're the
one who's feeding the people,doing the research and the
patients, or you're the doctorwho's curing cancer, everyone's
mission is to cure cancer.
And so when you think about youas a person, right?
Like you're a mom, you're awife, you are a friend.
(08:06):
You're a leader, you are amentor, you're a like, you're
all of these things, you arethis and that.
And so as I was working through,I was doing all of this through
the throes of the most horrificburnout I could ever imagine.
And I realized that there wastwo pillars to me.
One was my art of heart (08:20):
what does my heart look like?
How do I find joy?
And two, how do I heal fromburnout?
And I needed to do them at oncebecause we are this and that.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (08:33):
Yeah, that's really powerful.
And I know that you're awarethat I work with the highly
sensitive people.
Um, so can you tell us a littlebit more about, you are a highly
sensitive person.
What did your burnout look likeand where was this place that
you were in when, you felt likeyou really needed to create
these two pillars for yourselfand for others?
marissa-campbell_1_ (08:52):
absolutely.
So I had been traveling a lotand I mean like 98% of the time
and working hard wasn't theproblem.
And honestly, I didn't knowthings were so bad.
I went to this, uh, lady, I dogo to see who does biofeedback
and um, it was on a Friday andshe says to me, your adrenals
are shot.
(09:12):
Like your body is, is screamingfor help.
You should probably quit yourjob and like move to an island.
And I kind of chuckled.
I'm like, yeah, I can't do that.
That's not, it's not, I have afive year plan and a 10 year
plan and that's not in eitherone of those.
Um, right.
Like I have a plan and so.
Saturday comes along and Ireally felt bad because I've
always prioritized my mind tome.
(09:34):
Like my mind is my bright,shining star.
And spiritually I was like, Ifelt like on a good track, but I
never valued my body.
And my body was like, Hey, hi,we're here and we need help.
And like, what are you doing?
Like we're tired.
Stop pushing through.
And so.
Through the series of events.
I had the somatic release onSunday and then Monday I'd go to
(09:56):
be a new person.
Right?
Like literally, like only the onthe outside, but on the inside I
was processing thingsdifferently.
I wasn't coming to thingsthrough fear anymore.
I wasn't, I understood that Iwasn't what I could produce or
provide, right?
And so.
I was like, I still feel reallybad though.
Why do I feel so bad?
Like, I've had this coolexperience.
(10:17):
I had this huge spiritualawakening.
My mind like super hot and fast.
I feel terrible.
What's happening?
So I Google burnout and I took aburnout quiz and I'm like, oh, I
have every single symptom.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (10:33):
Hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (10:34):
And, and then I stopped.
And I was like, I, there's aHouston, there's a problem.
Right?
And for me, it wasn't just, um,that I felt so terribly it, it's
that I was doing things at workthat I normally wouldn't do.
Um, I was trying to protectpeople in a way I thought would
(10:55):
protect them.
That actually didn't protectthem, right?
Because I was trying to makesure everybody wasn't
experiencing what I wasexperiencing.
And in startup land, it's crazy.
That's just how it is.
That's you're doing, so we'redoing something that's never
been done, right?
And so I realized that thingswere just really not good, and I
needed to figure out how to makethings better.
(11:18):
And when I say not good, um, Iwasn't sleeping.
I wasn't like, I would listen tomusic and I wouldn't normally,
like I will break out song inthe middle of a grocery store if
there's a song overhead.
Like I wasn't doing that.
I was so cold to people and notcold, like, um, not cold, like
(11:38):
not caring, just like verymechanical,
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (11:43):
Hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (11:44):
which is not me.
Like I'm just like.
Like super vibrant human.
And I and I hadn't been for areally long time.
And so the more I looked atburnout and I looked at like,
not just from a companystatistic, but like how many
people are burned out in theUnited States and in the whole
world, and what they're burnedout from.
And the fact that like there'sno like magic potion for
(12:08):
burnout.
It's not like if you have highcholesterol, you can take
something and it gets better.
It's not like that for burnout.
maryann-walker--she-her- (12:15):
Right.
Hmm.
Well, there's so manyinteresting things that you
said.
Like it was interesting that yousaid, first of all, that you
didn't know that you were inburnout because you were just
going through the motions.
And I, I think that my audiencewill especially resonate with
you were using all of yourenergy to protect other people
from experiencing burnout, whichwas contributing to your own
(12:37):
burnout.
marissa-campbell_1_10-2 (12:38):
Mm-hmm.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (12:40):
That is so true for so many people.
We're, we're so highly aware of.
The impact on other people thatwe don't slow down and realize,
oh my gosh, it's me.
I should be mindful of my ownburnout because we're so
concerned with everybody else.
Right?
It's that pleasing coming insaying, Nope, everybody else's
needs are more important.
I can power through.
I must be different.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2025 (13:00):
I can just do it like I can.
I can take that on.
And you know, as a leader, andI've been a leader for a really
long time.
I worked for a large Fortune 500company, managing half a billion
dollars worth of revenue.
Like I've been a leader.
I understand big responsibilityand I could always delegate.
That was never, I could always,Hey, can you do this?
Hey, can you do that?
But when the burnout got reallybad, I didn't wanna delegate
(13:21):
because I was like, everyoneelse must feel this overwhelmed.
Right.
E everyone else must feel thisway because you were small.
I'm, I'm, you know, we're partof a small team and so I
thought, okay, I'll just takethat on.
I can do that too.
I can, and it wasn't a matter ofthe work, again, the work was
not the problem.
It was the fact that I wasrunning at such a diminished
(13:42):
state.
Right?
Like, and I, this is one of thethings I learned through my
process of healing and wroteabout in the book, but like.
We show up every day and we putourselves into whatever day we
have planned.
Most people don't wake up in themorning and say, how am I
showing up today?
What, what can I, how can Iinsert myself into the day?
(14:04):
Or how do I insert the day intomyself, not insert myself into
the day?
Very different things.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (14:11):
Hmm.
That's so interesting.
And when you said that, well,everybody else must be feeling
this way.
It's so interesting.
'cause I think that there's twokinds of people in the world.
There's people that have learnedto use burnout as a cue that
they need to ask for help.
And then there's those of us andI fall into the same camp where
it's, no, when I am burned out,it's my cue to do more.
(14:32):
Because probably everybody elseis just as burned out, and so I
have to take on more, and it'ssuch an interesting contrast
between those two.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (14:41):
Yeah.
And, and there's no, there's noroom for error, right?
Like when, when you have so muchon your plate.
I knew, I kept saying, I knowthat I'm the holdup.
I knew it.
I kept and I kept saying, I knowthat I'm the problem, but I
didn't realize what the problemwas.
I just knew like everything wasgetting stuck with me, and it
(15:02):
was, not only did I do adisservice to myself, but I did
a disservice to my team and mybusiness partners and everybody
else.
What's funny though is if youwere to ask the folks around me,
I was as high performing asever.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (15:17):
Hmm.
So they were also unaware ofyour burnout.
Interesting,
marissa-campbell_1_10-2 (15:23):
Mm-hmm.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (15:23):
huh.
Well, and I'm really excited.
I know that everybody right nowis like, but how did you get
out?
And so we're gonna get intothat.
So Marissa did send me likethree big things.
Is there anything you wanna saybefore start jumping into those?
'cause I know everybody's like,oh my gosh, I've been there.
Help.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (15:38):
The, the only thing I wanna start
with is remove the idea thatsomething is going to take a
preconceived amount of timebecause I healed so fast and I'm
healing so fast, and I'm havingother people who are reaching
out and saying, I'm seeing sucha big impact from this so
quickly.
So like, if you're sitting thereand you're like, Ugh, I don't
(15:58):
have 10 hours to read a book,and I don't have, I don't have
six months to feel better.
I need to feel better now.
Like we can get you 10% betterby time you're done with this
podcast.
And so take away the idea thatthis has to be hard or that you
don't have time or that it'sgonna take a long time.
'cause none of those things aretrue.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (16:18):
Yeah.
Boy, that's an amazing promise.
You are going to feel 10% betterjust by listening to the end of
this podcast.
That's Them.
And, and I love thatencouragement that it could
happen faster than you think.
'cause when we're in thatburnout, we know that, uh, more
than likely you've been in thatstate for a long time, right?
And so the brain wants to say,well, it's gonna take forever to
(16:38):
get out because I've been herefor so long.
So how encouraging to discoverthat it actually happened.
The change was created fasterthan you thought.
Oh faster
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (16:49):
Way faster.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_ (16:50):
Oh, fun.
Okay, we're gonna jump inbecause this is just so juicy.
Okay, so tip number one is learnto check in, not check out.
Tell us about that.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-202 (16:59):
So the first thing that I, I
noticed is that I would just,whatever I had calendared for
that day.
So like I had mentioned toMaryAnn before, we jumped on,
like, I'm still running mystartup, right?
So I started, I did my firstsite visit at 7:00 AM I'm in
Florida right now, traveling atin Naples.
And now I'm in Orlando, so likeI've had a full life today.
And what would happen is I wouldjust have a full life, but I
(17:21):
would never check in on myself.
And so the first thing I Irealized is that we carry a
phone around with us everywherewe go, right?
And if you at your phone and thebattery is red and you're gonna
leave the house, what do you do?
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_ (17:35):
You plug that thing in, right?
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (17:36):
Right?
You plug it in, you make sureyou have a car charger, you take
a battery pack, you dosomething.
You assess the state of yourbattery before you walk out the
door.
maryann-walker--she-her (17:44):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (17:46):
The first thing I started doing was
assessing the state of mybattery, and so I started
thinking about myself as a giantbattery, right.
So I'm like, okay, where am I attoday?
And for the first three weeks Iwas in between single digits to
like 10%.
So hundred being a full batteryand zero being, I was in this,
(18:06):
this zero to 10 range every day.
And the, the shock that I feltwhen I was like, okay.
How does my battery feel today?
And the very first day, it waslike 5%, and I'm like 5%.
I have six one hour conferencecalls.
I've got 14 deliverables and Igot, I didn't have time for
(18:27):
that.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (18:28):
Yeah.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (18:28):
But instead of pushing through.
I thought, okay, because thebattery is an indicator of like
how much power you have and it'snot a science.
My 10% is gonna be differentfrom your 10%.
My 70% will look different fromyour 70%, so you don't get
caught up in that.
Just think about yourself,where's your batteries?
The next really important thingis to thi is to pick an emotion
(18:50):
word because 40% scared isdifferent from 40% excited.
Is different from 40% worried.
maryann-walker--she-her (19:02):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (19:03):
those are different things, right?
Like, so picking that emotionword really helps for you to tap
in to say, how am I feelingtoday?
maryann-walker--she-her (19:10):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-202 (19:11):
So that practice alone, that was
like how all this started andI'm like, okay, where's my
battery?
Okay.
It's getting a little better.
It's getting a little better.
I will tell you a few weeks agowhen I hit 80%, I have a friend
who I've been going back andforth with this as I've been
going process.
And I called her and I'm like,I'm at 80%.
(19:31):
She's like, you're at 80%.
And I was like, I'm at 80%.
And I was like, I could, I couldtake us to the moon, like I
could build us a rocket ship andwe could get to the moon.
I'm at 80%, I can take over theworld.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (19:44):
Yeah.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (19:44):
And it was just such a, like, it was
such a moment for her to benumber one, excited for me and
watch the healing.
But number two, she's like, onlyat 10%.
And I'm like, okay.
And then I'm like, how can Ihelp you today?
So the, the entire, the entireconcept of the book, which I'm
very excited, everybody can seethe cover, um, thank you, the
(20:07):
entire premise, and I, I'll flipto the page, is that you start
your every day with a heartcheck-in.
And so H-E-A-R-T.
So it's how is your battery?
What's your emotion wordalignment.
So I talked about like showingup in your day, like how are you
showing up today?
What are things you move basedupon how your battery is?
If your battery's super low,there's things you can shift and
(20:29):
move to make it easier onyourself to be a good version of
yourself, like to be your ownbest friend.
We talked about that when, whenyou and I did the podcast, like,
how can better align things?
Um, the next is relationships.
So what relationships need atouch base?
'cause inevitably when thingsstart to shift.
There are relationships thatneed to be touched.
And the last is tether.
And the tether is how you reallyget the battery increase very
(20:53):
quickly.
So like for example, if you wereto wake up this morning and
you're like, I'm at 25%, um, andyou think about your emotion
where you're like, I'm at 25%uncertain.
first thing you should brushyour teeth.
Okay?
But then the very first thingyou should do is you should
tether and tethering is anactivity that brings you back to
(21:14):
yourself.
maryann-walker--she-her (21:16):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-2 (21:16):
tethers are different, and the more I
ask people like what do they doto help themselves?
It, it's, it ranges from likegoing for a walk.
Um, some people will just wannasit on the bench.
Some people wanna listen tomusic and like have a dance
party in the kitchen and likejust move their, you know, body.
Everybody tethers different, andin the book I help you figure
out what your tethers are and totrack'em.
(21:37):
But you can literally see a 10%boost by tethering in the moment
you don't feel okay.
what you're doing is you'reprioritizing yourself and you're
telling your brain, Hey, Irecognize something's wrong.
I'm going to contribute.
And that quickly you'll start tosee an increase and you just do
(22:00):
it every day.
Or if things start to feel off.
maryann-walker--she-her (22:03):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (22:04):
um, I had a really hard call
yesterday at work and I had, mybattery was really high and some
things had happened and I waslike.
I don't feel okay.
I feel super, super, superanxious, but I couldn't figure
out where the anxiety was comingfrom.
And by the way, anxiety isn'tnecessarily like, uh, it's like
an alarm bell, like Like what doyou need to look into?
And I was like, okay, let mestop and let me do a heart
(22:26):
check.
And I realized I was feelinganxious because I wasn't
prepared for my meeting
maryann-walker--she-her (22:31):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2025 (22:32):
I had been on the road and in the
car and I couldn't do what Inormally do to prepare.
And I was feeling anxious.
I fixed the thing, but I wouldnever have known that had I not
worked on myself versus in mylife.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (22:46):
Yeah.
Okay, so give us anotherexample.
us back to the days whenMarissa's realizing she's at 5%
in her battery.
She has six one hour callswaiting for her.
What did that process look likefor you to go through that heart
check?
marissa-campbell_1_ (23:03):
Absolutely.
So, um, a few months into thisjourney, I was, um, just really
struggling.
Like I was, I was doing so muchbetter in so many ways, but it
wasn't fast enough, right?
Like, and, and, and I was in thethroes of writing a book and
launching a podcast and runninga startup and basically cleaning
(23:24):
up all this gunk had side mybrain and my body that had been
there for years and.
I had through a long series ofwork events, um, I had on a
Thursday afternoon.
I'm like, I need to go to thebeach now.
I travel a lot, so I have a tonof points, right?
Like that's perks of travelingall the time.
So literally booked a flight forthe next day and I went to the
beach.
(23:44):
So I'm like, okay, I'm gonnafeel better'cause I'm at the
beach.
Monday comes around, I have sixhours worth of calls.
trying, I've got deadlines forthe book, and I'm feeling super
overwhelmed and for meoverwhelmed, looks like snappy.
I'm not like a paralyzedoverwhelm or I'm like a, we need
to get this done.
(24:04):
We've got 14 things on the to-dolist.
I need everybody to stop whatthey're doing and get this thing
done, whatever that thing is,right?
And so I getting really snappyand it was on like hour three
and I was like, oh, I need torun a heart check.
My battery's really low.
And so I told my team, I'mgonna, I'm gonna step away for
(24:25):
15 minutes, and I literallyturned off my teams and I
stepped away for 15 minutes andI went outside and I did box
breathing.
As I walked, I did box breathingas I walked, and I just
reconnected to myself and I.
And in those moments, that 15minutes made the whole rest of
(24:45):
the day more productive becauseI wasn't in this loop of not
okay.
In those 15 minutes, I just didbox breathing.
While I walked.
I was walking in a parking lot.
It wasn't like I was in amagical land.
Okay?
And I was able to realize that Iwas feeling completely out of
control because of things that Icouldn't control.
(25:07):
So in that.
But it gave me space to think,how do you feel?
Where's your battery?
What is your emotion?
it?
Like who needs to touch base asa relationship?
And I realized there were thingsI could control.
maryann-walker--she-her (25:23):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-202 (25:23):
So instead of being overwhelmed
about all the things I couldn'tcontrol because I stopped long
enough to check on myself and totether, I could think more
clearly.
What would've happened fourmonths ago is I would've gone
into this entire shame spiralof.
Why isn't this working?
Why can't we get it done?
Why isn't it Why are we failing?
(25:45):
We weren't failing at all.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (25:47):
Yeah.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (25:48):
needed to control the things I could
control, but I couldn't see itbecause I was, my battery was so
low.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (25:54):
Yeah, I really appreciate that example
because in a perfect world it islike we're checking our phone
right before we start on theday, right?
And but.
Through that example, we cansee, just like with our phones,
that our energy is going towaver throughout the day.
And so continuously checking in,recognizing, and sometimes we
might not even recognize thatour battery's low, like you
(26:14):
said, until we find ourselvesbeing a little more irritable or
trying harder to control thingsthat in our control.
And we, we might notice thesymptoms of it first, but taking
some time to just check in andsee, okay, where's my battery
at?
How's it going?
And I also really love.
That you were so intentionalabout, first of all, recognizing
(26:35):
what it was that you needed, butbeing very intentional with that
time.
Doing the box breathing,knowing, okay, what's going to
give me that charge a little bitfaster?
Right?
Because just like how there'sdifferent chargers, like
everybody has their favoritecharger that they know is gonna
do the best job for'em,recognizing what's going to
actually fill me up.
Taking the time for it.
(26:56):
And, and now that makes so muchmore sense when you say that the
recovery was a lot faster thanyou
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-202 (27:01):
Oh yeah.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10 (27:01):
I can totally see it's because you
were so intentional about it.
You, you plugged into thesupercharger.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (27:06):
Every day.
And you know, the thing is likeI tried some things that I
thought would work for me andthey don't.
The biggest thing for me when Ineed to tether is I have to stop
the pull of communication out ofme.
So like.
Like teams, right?
Like our, my teams, my work Dding dings all the time, and I'm
to help and I want it to dingand I want people to come to me.
(27:27):
But when I'm in that momentwhere I'm super depleted, I turn
my phone on silent.
I don't want it to make anynoise.
I don't want to know thatanybody needs anything from me.
I just need to concentrate onmyself.
I usually start with breathingand just like reconnecting into
my body, and then sometimes Ineed to do something fun and
silly, and sometimes I need togo for a walk.
Sometimes I just go put my feetin the grass barefoot, and I'm
(27:50):
like with my face in the sun.
I just a
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (27:53):
Yep.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2025 (27:53):
I just need a moment.
need a moment.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (27:56):
Yeah, I love that.
Okay, so that was the first onewas learn to check in and Not
out.
The second one is, and you kindof touched on this a bit, but
name what you feel so it doesn'tname you.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (28:06):
Man, it is so important.
So, um, uh, gonna share a quickstory as I go into this one.
So, I was with my family thisweekend and my, um.
We had gone to dinner and myniece, um, had missed dinner.
She was working and she was, herfeelings were hurt and she was
upset and she was like, oh, Ireally wanted to go.
(28:26):
But I had, you know, she wasworking and um, and she seemed a
little off.
And so we were standing theretalking and, and I could tell
that she was depleted,
maryann-walker--she-her (28:34):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (28:35):
but it wasn't the time to
necessarily talk about it.
So the next morning we'resitting at the breakfast table
and.
She's working on her computer.
She's so hard, such a hardworker.
And I look at her and I'm like,oh, she's really not okay.
And so I was like, Hey, do youwanna run a battery?
You wanna run a heart check?
I wanna know what your batteryis.
She's like, I'd really lovethat.
And she closes her computer andshe's like, I'm at 10%.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (29:00):
Hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (29:00):
okay.
She's 23.
Beautiful.
Brilliant.
The whole world ahead of her,right?
Doesn't seem like an idealcandidate for burnout.
And, uh, I was like, okay,what's your emotion word?
And she sat for a minute andshe's like, uncertain.
And her boyfriend was sittingthere at the table
maryann-walker--she-her (29:21):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (29:22):
he's like, I'm 60%.
And I'm like, okay.
So if she's, you know, 10%uncertain and he was 60% annoyed
'cause he had to go to work.
But there wasn't, there wasn'tan actual real problem.
He was just didn't wanna have towork that day.
He wanted hang out.
Right.
Totally fine.
Um.
All of a sudden he realized thatshe was not okay and she was
(29:43):
uncertain.
And I'm like, okay, well whatare you uncertain about?
And she was like, well, I'muncertain about, you know, the
future and all these things thatare out of our control and you
know how we get in our head andit just spirals.
And I was like, I think that youguys should go tether.
Would be like, where do you feelmost disconnected?
She's like, I don't feelconnected to my body and I don't
really feel connected to mymind.
(30:03):
I said, okay.
So I was like, what if you gofor just a 10 minute walk and
play?
I spy?
And she was like, okay.
Right after I finish this thing,I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
That's not how it works.
I was you, if you feel uncertainand you're depleted and you're
10% close your computer, theworld is not gonna catch on fire
in 10 minutes and go.
She felt so much betterafterwards.
(30:24):
The reason why the emotion wordis so important is because if
she had said 10%, whatever, mad,or 10%, I don't, whatever word
it was, it's different thanuncertain.
Uncertain, cued to me that shefeels like things are out of
control and she feels like shedoesn't know what's gonna happen
(30:45):
next.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (30:46):
Hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (30:47):
Right.
And so you're able to handlethings differently.
Like if you called me and you'relike, Hey, I'm like 25%.
I'll like, okay, tell me 25%isn't ideal, right?
It's not great, but tell memore.
And then you tell me a wholelong story about your day and
you're like, well, I went to thegrocery store and they didn't
have what I needed.
(31:07):
And then I was on my way homeand I was late and I forgot to
pick somebody like you.
not the same as one word, whichis maybe in that situation you
felt less than,
maryann-walker--she-her (31:18):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (31:19):
right?
Less than can be an emotion,right?
Like you felt you weren't ableto get it all done.
That is more impactful thanbecause we get lost in the
story, right?
I'm like, oh, all those, allthose things happen.
I'm so sorry, but if you'relike, I feel less than I can
then say.
I mean, like I appreciate yourfeelings and they're valid, but
look at all the amazing thingsyou did, because sometimes we
(31:40):
don't see it from theperspective.
Right.
And that's where.
It's built for teams.
This, this entire premise isbuilt for teams because we need
a team to support ourselves at aburnout, but it absolutely be
used as an individual person.
And so, but to create commonlanguage and for you to be able
to say to me, like, let's sayyou see a post and I'm like,
Hey, everything's awesome.
(32:01):
And you're like, I just noticedthere was something a little
off.
And I'm like, I'm actually atlike 30%, um, trepidatious or
whatever, right?
So.
Those, those, those words matterbecause sometimes we get caught
up in all the story and or wedon't assess at all.
So being able to assign a singleword really helps us hone in on,
(32:22):
on how we feel.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (32:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
Just the naming it to tame itand seeing like, okay, what's
actually coming up?
Because I think you're spot onthat sometimes we do get too
caught up in our story to justslow it down enough to go, oh,
okay.
Huh, I'm feeling anxious.
That's interesting.
And then we can be more curiousabout it.
Like, well, okay, so why am Ifeeling anxious?
Is that actually the word I'mlooking for?
(32:45):
And then it gives youinformation.
'cause once you know what theemotion is, then you can
actually steps too.
To course correct.
Right.
That, oh, okay.
Well, I'm feeling anxious, butreally, I don't have to be
scared,
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (32:56):
Right, right.
And I, I together a.
I put together a word bankbecause like I found that I was
going to the same, like fivewords all the time.
And so, um, there's a word bankthat's part of, you know, a tool
and it's like two pages of wordsyou can pick out.
What I caution is that if youalways are having the same word,
like I had a few days where Iwas just mad, I was mad about
everything.
(33:17):
And what I realized is I wasn'tactually mad.
Um, I was.
Not taking the time to reallyunderstand what I was feeling,
and I was assigning it mad.
I'm just mad, you know, but WasI mad?
maryann-walker--she-her (33:32):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2025 (33:33):
I just, I was like, well, I just,
you know, I've got a lot of the,the truth is I felt a lot of
big, complex feelings.
They weren't necessarily mad,but I put it as mad.
So finding those words, andagain, it's not about being
perfect.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (33:48):
Yep.
So true.
Yep.
I think that the bulk of people,they know three emotions.
They know sad, mad, and glad, toreally sit with it, like you
said, okay, am I feeling angry?
Am I feeling mad, or am Ifeeling like things are out of
control?
Am I feeling inadequate?
Am I feeling, you know, it's,there's so many different things
that are underneath anger, butwe don't usually take the time
(34:11):
to really sit with it and noticethose small differences.
But also when you're able toname it, you're able to
recognize, oh, that's how thatfeels in my body.
Oh, I know that emotion.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (34:21):
Yeah, and then you can do something,
right, but you have to take thetime to pause and name it and
then, oh, what are you gonna donext?
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (34:30):
Yeah, I love it.
Okay.
And then tip number three isprotect your energy like it's
your livelihood because it is.
Tell us more about that.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (34:39):
Um, I am the first person to want to
help.
I really have a servant's heart.
I've always been this way.
Um, and when we, um, weretogether last on my podcast, you
talked about mowing the grass.
And by the way, I've beentalking about that nonstop and,
um, to everybody, I'm like,listen, like, are you being a
(35:00):
good, best friend to yourself,right?
Like, what, what are, what areyou doing?
So.
the oxygen mass theory, whichwe've all heard.
You go on a plane, I fly all thetime, and they're like, Hey, you
have a child next to you.
Do you know you're supposed totake care of yourself first?
we don't realize that when wedon't take care of ourselves and
protect our energy above allthings, we're not a good
(35:22):
partner.
We're not a good spouse.
We're not as good of a parent,we're not as good of a friend.
We're not as good at our job,we're not as good at anything
because we're coming from adepleted resource.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_ (35:33):
Hm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (35:33):
It's like if you, if someone would've
asked to borrow eggs and youbrought them over empty
eggshells, it's not the same.
It's just not.
And I didn't realize for howmany years I had been doing such
a disservice, not only tomyself, but everybody I
interacted with, because I wasalways just a shell of the
person that I was.
(35:54):
The moment that I made thedecision to protect me, my mind,
my body, and my spirit equally.
It just started shifting thingsso quickly.
It's like once I prioritizedmyself, I got way more done at
work.
I am more efficient than I havebeen in years.
I'm happier to be around.
(36:14):
There was a situation, um, thisweekend with my family.
They're always chronically late.
I love them, but like time isjust not, time is not linear for
them.
um, it was my best friend'sbirthday and we had plans to be
somewhere at four o'clock.
I know that there was no way wewere gonna be there four
o'clock, but old Marissawould've been ate up that we
(36:37):
were not on time.
There was people waiting for us.
I would've been like, come onyou guys, we gotta go.
I would've been like yelling atpeople to get in the car.
And instead what I did was Ithought to myself before the
event, I know we're gonna belate.
I know that it's not a personalattack on me, this is just how
we operate as a unit.
There's a lot of us.
So what I can do is, number one,I made dinner for afterwards
(37:02):
that would hold in a crockpot.
So we weren't trying to do allthis cooking.
So I prepared for the situation,and then as everything was
unfolding exactly as I thoughtit would, and exactly as it
always does,
maryann-walker--she-her (37:13):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2025 (37:13):
I was able to protect my energy
because I wasn't setting anexpectation improperly, number
one and number two, it's okay.
I didn't let myself get anxious.
I didn't get myself get mad.
I wasn't like trying to movethem.
I wasn't trying to control thesituation or any of those
things.
I was able to be present becausemy battery wasn't depleted.
(37:39):
My battery was full.
I mean, I was probably at 75%,which in this journey is
excellent for me.
And it was all okay.
I was able to handle everythingbetter.
And in fact, we got in the carand one of my friends looked at
me.
She goes, who are you?
She was like the old, youwould've been like yelling at
everybody to get in the carwe're late and you would've
left.
I was like, probably.
(38:00):
She's like, why are you so calm?
And I was like, it's okay.
And she's like, but why is itokay?
I said, because I'm notdepleted.
And when we come to thingsdepleted, we're never the best
version of ourselves.
That's why you have your energyat all costs.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10 (38:15):
I love that so much.
I love how that ties in withthey check your battery, right?
Because it also begs thequestion, okay, what do I want
to spend my energy on?
Do I want to spend my energy ontrying to control people so that
they show up on time?
Do I want to use my energy torage in traffic or do I just
wanna save it and just be like,okay, I'm just gonna pause.
(38:38):
I'm gonna invest my energy whereI want to intentionally invest
it, but then you can actuallyinvest into the things light you
up and bring you joy
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (38:46):
Yeah.
And it was okay
maryann-walker--she-her- (38:47):
you're showing up depleted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (38:50):
was okay, right?
And we went to the escape roomand we saved Igor and it was
super fun was great and it wasall fine.
But the old Marissa would'vebeen so upset that we were late
that would not have enjoyed theevent I would had, I just
would've handled everythingdifferently.
And it all comes back to likethe root causes.
I wasn't depleted.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_1 (39:12):
I, I love that.
I'm gonna be thinking on that alot.
Like, okay, what do I need tosay yes to?
And what do I need to say no to,to protect my energy?
what would that look like?
What would that do for me?
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (39:22):
Yeah.
And if things start to gosideways and you start to notice
your energy's depleted, how canyou do these small tethers to
come back to yourself?
Like, I don't care if peoplethink that I'm crazy, that in
the middle of the rain a fewweeks ago, I ran out and put my
feet in the dirt and just stoodthere in the rain.
I didn't care that I was gettingwet.
needed to go stand with justmyself without any noise with my
(39:44):
feet in the ground and feelwater hit my face.
maryann-walker--she-her (39:48):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (39:48):
helps.
So whatever your tether is, doit.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (39:52):
Hmm.
I love that.
Well, I am already feeling 10%less burned out.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (39:58):
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
And
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_1 (40:00):
to promise.
marissa-campbell_1_10-2 (40:01):
thanks.
It's really cool too.
The book is, it's not just aread book, um, it's more like a
workbook and there's prompts.
So as you go through it, there'squestions and you'll start to
like, answer these questionsabout yourself.
There's a really cool burnoutchecklist, so you can see is
burnout affecting you, and thenthere's a, a way to try to
figure out what your tethers areand to figure out what tethers
work for you.
So it's a really quick read.
(40:22):
It's, it's really intended to belike a C one, do one, teach one
type of thing.
Um, so you're not spending, youknow, the next seven days in a
book that you may take onelittle nugget from.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (40:31):
Yeah, I love that.
And speaking of nuggets, yeah,I'm just gonna review the
nuggets that you shared and thenI wanna hear if you feel like
there's like one main takeawaythat you'd like to share with
the audience.
But, so the three tips werelearn to check in, not check
out.
And Marissa talked about usingthe the heart check.
So I'm gonna put, she left me adescription.
I'll put all of that in theshow.
(40:51):
And name what you feel so itdoesn't name you and protecting
your energy like it's yourlivelihood because it is.
I just love it.
So, yeah.
So as we're wrapping up here, ifyou did have one main takeaway
that you'd like for the audienceto really take to heart, what
would it be?
I.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (41:08):
Um, you're not broken.
There's nothing wrong with you.
There's nothing to fix.
Um.
I felt so broken and I felt soalone, and I felt like the worst
version of myself for a reallylong time.
And what I realized is that if Ijust come back to self and I
come home and I figure out whatbrings me joy and I figure out.
(41:31):
Where my battery is and how muchenergy I'm bringing to things
that I came back to life, but I,I didn't, it was, there wasn't
like this, there wasn't anythingwrong with me.
I just had gotten lost along theway and all the crazy loud noise
and all the things I should bedoing.
And when I just remembered thatI needed to come back to myself,
(41:52):
it all worked so well and sofast.
And so please don't ever thinkyou're broken.
There's nothing wrong with you.
You just have to remember.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10 (42:01):
I absolutely love that.
Yeah.
Yep.
Wholeheartedly agree.
I think it's really easy to beatourselves up'cause we're always
comparing our worst to somebodyelse's best and thinking, well I
must be broken'cause I'm theonly one burned out, or I'm the
only one having a hard timeright now.
Or assuming everybody else ishaving a harder time, so I
should take on their load, whichthen perpetuates our own
(42:22):
burnout.
But yeah, I think we all needthose reminders that you shared
with us today that, no, you'renot broken.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (42:28):
so.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (42:28):
This is just a reminder to check back
in with self, to check yourbattery to do something that
lights you up and and gives youthat charge and that boost that
you need.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (42:38):
Yeah, work your way back.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (42:39):
Yeah.
Well, Marissa, this has justbeen such a lovely conversation.
Thank you so much for coming on
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (42:45):
Thank you so much for having me.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (42:47):
yeah, and if people would like to find
you or like to purchase theirbook, of course I'll put all of
the contact information in theshow notes, but tell them where
they can find you.
marissa-campbell_1_ (42:54):
Absolutely.
So if you wanna listen to thepodcast, we're everywhere where
you can listen to podcasts.
It's Art of Heart by MarissaCampbell.
The book is on Amazon Lead WithHeart.
If you just put in Lead WithHeart, Marissa Campbell, it'll
show up.
It's on Kindle and available forprint.
And um, you know, check me outon um, uh, Instagram and I'm on
LinkedIn and um, please say hiand send me a note.
(43:15):
I would love to hear fromeverybody.
maryann-walker--she-he (43:17):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much and as areminder, everybody, you're not
broken.
You just might be experiencing alittle bit of burnout, and
hopefully these tips will helpyou to feel at least 10% better.
So I hope you have a great week,everybody, and let's talk soon.
Bye now.
Well, hello and welcome back.
I am your host, MaryAnn Walker,and I help highly sensitive
women break free from burnout,and that is exactly why I am so
excited for today's guest.
Marissa Campbell is here with ustoday.
Hello Marissa.
Hi.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (00:33):
Hi, how are you?
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm like super excited.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_ (00:37):
Oh, me too.
Yeah.
So Marissa is a public speaker.
She's the host of the Art ofHeart podcast and the author of
Lead With Heart, the NewBlueprint for a Noisy, burned
Out World.
And as you may remember, Marissaand I recently reconnected when
I was a guest on her podcast, sogo and check that out.
I'll link that in the shownotes.
(00:58):
But as she and I were catchingup.
Then I learned about her newbook that is now officially out,
which is super exciting.
Um, but it is all about burnout.
And so yeah.
Marissa, thank you so much forbeing here
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (01:12):
This is so exciting and it's, it's so
cool because we had such a greattime on my podcast and when you
were like, Hey, do you wanna beon mine?
I'm like, that would be soincredible.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (01:21):
Yeah, I think our audiences are very
aligned and so it's really funto just, uh, I just loved how
much we were vibing and verysimilar experiences and
different things, so, yeah.
So before we dive in, would youtell us a little bit more about
your lived experience and howyou got to where you are today?
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (01:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I am just really learning howto navigate this crazy human
experience in a way that, iskind of new to me.
I spent many years in corporateAmerica climbing the ladder,
and, I have a startup, which issuper fun.
And if you would've asked me sixmonths ago.
Probably eight months ago, whatthe most important thing in my
life was I would've set asuccessful exit.
(01:58):
And for those of you who aren'tfamiliar with startup land, it's
when there is some type offinancial exchange for your
company and makes you as a humanin the business world.
And I'm doing air quote, supervaluable.
'cause then you can go andfundraise and do anything your
heart desires.
And so it's like the ultimategoal in startup land.
Um, then through a series ofevents, I realized.
(02:20):
I didn't actually care aboutthose things anymore.
And it's not that I don't wannawork hard, but that I, I don't,
that isn't what brings me joy.
And it led me to build,, leadwith heart and then, art of
heart in parallel because we arethis and that.
And so I, am Super lucky to havetraveled most of the country.
My last, state is Hawaii and um,I get to be an aunt, which is
(02:41):
amazing, and I'm just reallyexcited to begin this new
chapter as the version of me wholooks like this, but is super
different on the inside.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (02:50):
Yeah, so just to give a little plug
for your podcast.
Tell us a little bit about whatyou do over there.
'cause I think that my audiencewill be very intrigued.
marissa-campbell_1_ (02:58):
Absolutely.
So Art of Heart is really like,so when I went through this
journey about five months ago, Ihad a somatic release, which
basically just means I releaseda whole bunch of trauma and I
was in the throes of burnout andI was really unhappy and I was
like unhappy to my core, in away that everybody kind of
didn't get.
And so through this process, Idid a couple things.
Number one, I reconnected witha, a train of thought that I
(03:20):
learned many years ago incounseling, which is what does
your heart look like?
And so I'm sitting in a hotelroom in Sacramento, California,
and I had just gone through thissomatic release and I was like.
What does my heart look like?
And so I started journaling andI, I call them way points.
So the way points are like thebig things that if you were like
getting to know somebody or yourfamily or friends were sitting
(03:42):
around, they would talk aboutbig moments, right?
These are way points.
And so I started.
Thinking about what my heartlooked like in those points.
And so I literally, and we talk,like on the podcast, people show
their hearts and they're thesebeautiful, vivid images.
But the idea is that we createcommon language that puts color
to those feelings, right?
Because if I just say I'm sad.
(04:04):
That's if you, like, they messedup your coffee order and like
you bummed for the day versusthe one year anniversary of your
dad dying and you just don'tfeel put together and there's
pieces that are still uncertain.
So the, the language that wehave, I think is super limiting.
So I started making way likedrawings on my way points and
putting words together.
And I realized, number one, allthe things I thought brought me
(04:25):
joy did not, which was like abig shocking moment.
And the more I started askingpeople about, you know, their
lives and how the people werelike, oh, I'm having a hard day.
And I'd be like, well, tell memore what you know, what does
your heart look like?
And all of a sudden I wasgetting these really shocking
answers people who I thoughtwere okay, were absolutely not
okay.
(04:45):
And people who were...
they seem to be not okay.
We're really just, somebody hadmessed up their coffee order and
so I was like, Hey, listen,these, as I was having these
conversations, these storieswere helping me to unravel what
was inside me by talking toother people and asking, what
does your heart look like?
And I'm like, there's so manystories that need to be told.
(05:06):
And with every story and everytime I was bringing this up to
people, I'd get text messages atthree o'clock in the morning.
I don't like you.
I stop thinking about what myheart looks like.
I realize I don't have any joy,I can't, I can't find any good
moments.
Everything is hard.
And I'm like, wow, there'ssomething here.
So that's why I started Art ofHeart.
(05:27):
And every week people share thegood, the hard and the aha
moments of their life and whattheir heart looked like.
And hopefully somebody on theother side will be able to say,
oh, they got through that reallyhard, hard chapter.
I can too, or to seecommonalities and start to
reflect on their own heart.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (05:45):
That is so beautiful and tying that
together with your somaticexperience, I, me as a guest on
your show, it was veryinteresting.
Because you let me know, Hey,I'm gonna be asking you these
questions and, and trying tohelp me to narrow it down.
And even just the process ofthinking through what does my
heart look like was, for me, asomatic experience.
(06:06):
It, it compels you to actuallyfeel and process the emotion.
Which is such an interestingthing.
'cause so much of life, I thinkthat we're kind of resisting it
or pretending it doesn't exist,putting on that fake smile, but
to really sit with it and belike, Hmm, like this is
something deeper and, and yeah,this is heavier than getting a
mixed up coffee order.
(06:26):
Right?
So I think it's really beautifulwhat it is that you're doing.
And I was unaware that youstarted the podcast and writing
this book at the same time.
So tell me how those two areconnected.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-202 (06:37):
So I'm this and that, and we all
are right?
Like we are not just one thing.
And I've always been superdriven in business.
I'm an excellent problem solver.
I am the go-to person.
Like if things have gonesideways, whether I work in, in
a company, or whether I used towork there, I still get phone
calls from companies who arelike, how do I fix this?
Right?
I'm an excellent problem solverand I build amazing
relationships.
And that business, thatanalytical part of my mind, that
(06:59):
thing that I do that solves theproblem, right, or makes the
thing or grows the thing is alsoattached to this human who has
feelings.
And like today I was driving inthe car listening to Brene
Brown's new book.
And um, she is telling the storyabout mission, like making sure
everybody understands themission and she tells the story,
(07:21):
by the way, if you haven't readthe book, everybody should.
It's amazing.
I love her.
But this book specifically likereally spoke to me.
Um, so she's tells a story.
She's at St.
Jude's hospital for children andshe goes into the elevator and
um, there's a woman and there'slike a double decker dessert
cart.
And she says, hi, how are youtoday?
And she's like, hi.
And she says, the lady, what doyou do here?
(07:42):
And the lady says, I curecancer.
I.
And the idea that everyone onthat team, whether you're the
one who's feeding the people,doing the research and the
patients, or you're the doctorwho's curing cancer, everyone's
mission is to cure cancer.
And so when you think about youas a person, right?
Like you're a mom, you're awife, you are a friend.
(08:06):
You're a leader, you are amentor, you're a like, you're
all of these things, you arethis and that.
And so as I was working through,I was doing all of this through
the throes of the most horrificburnout I could ever imagine.
And I realized that there wastwo pillars to me.
One was my art of heart (08:20):
what does my heart look like?
How do I find joy?
And two, how do I heal fromburnout?
And I needed to do them at oncebecause we are this and that.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (08:33):
Yeah, that's really powerful.
And I know that you're awarethat I work with the highly
sensitive people.
Um, so can you tell us a littlebit more about, you are a highly
sensitive person.
What did your burnout look likeand where was this place that
you were in when, you felt likeyou really needed to create
these two pillars for yourselfand for others?
marissa-campbell_1_ (08:52):
absolutely.
So I had been traveling a lotand I mean like 98% of the time
and working hard wasn't theproblem.
And honestly, I didn't knowthings were so bad.
I went to this, uh, lady, I dogo to see who does biofeedback
and um, it was on a Friday andshe says to me, your adrenals
are shot.
(09:12):
Like your body is, is screamingfor help.
You should probably quit yourjob and like move to an island.
And I kind of chuckled.
I'm like, yeah, I can't do that.
That's not, it's not, I have afive year plan and a 10 year
plan and that's not in eitherone of those.
Um, right.
Like I have a plan and so.
Saturday comes along and Ireally felt bad because I've
always prioritized my mind tome.
(09:34):
Like my mind is my bright,shining star.
And spiritually I was like, Ifelt like on a good track, but I
never valued my body.
And my body was like, Hey, hi,we're here and we need help.
And like, what are you doing?
Like we're tired.
Stop pushing through.
And so.
Through the series of events.
I had the somatic release onSunday and then Monday I'd go to
(09:56):
be a new person.
Right?
Like literally, like only the onthe outside, but on the inside I
was processing thingsdifferently.
I wasn't coming to thingsthrough fear anymore.
I wasn't, I understood that Iwasn't what I could produce or
provide, right?
And so.
I was like, I still feel reallybad though.
Why do I feel so bad?
Like, I've had this coolexperience.
(10:17):
I had this huge spiritualawakening.
My mind like super hot and fast.
I feel terrible.
What's happening?
So I Google burnout and I took aburnout quiz and I'm like, oh, I
have every single symptom.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (10:33):
Hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (10:34):
And, and then I stopped.
And I was like, I, there's aHouston, there's a problem.
Right?
And for me, it wasn't just, um,that I felt so terribly it, it's
that I was doing things at workthat I normally wouldn't do.
Um, I was trying to protectpeople in a way I thought would
(10:55):
protect them.
That actually didn't protectthem, right?
Because I was trying to makesure everybody wasn't
experiencing what I wasexperiencing.
And in startup land, it's crazy.
That's just how it is.
That's you're doing, so we'redoing something that's never
been done, right?
And so I realized that thingswere just really not good, and I
needed to figure out how to makethings better.
(11:18):
And when I say not good, um, Iwasn't sleeping.
I wasn't like, I would listen tomusic and I wouldn't normally,
like I will break out song inthe middle of a grocery store if
there's a song overhead.
Like I wasn't doing that.
I was so cold to people and notcold, like, um, not cold, like
(11:38):
not caring, just like verymechanical,
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (11:43):
Hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (11:44):
which is not me.
Like I'm just like.
Like super vibrant human.
And I and I hadn't been for areally long time.
And so the more I looked atburnout and I looked at like,
not just from a companystatistic, but like how many
people are burned out in theUnited States and in the whole
world, and what they're burnedout from.
And the fact that like there'sno like magic potion for
(12:08):
burnout.
It's not like if you have highcholesterol, you can take
something and it gets better.
It's not like that for burnout.
maryann-walker--she-her- (12:15):
Right.
Hmm.
Well, there's so manyinteresting things that you
said.
Like it was interesting that yousaid, first of all, that you
didn't know that you were inburnout because you were just
going through the motions.
And I, I think that my audiencewill especially resonate with
you were using all of yourenergy to protect other people
from experiencing burnout, whichwas contributing to your own
(12:37):
burnout.
marissa-campbell_1_10-2 (12:38):
Mm-hmm.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (12:40):
That is so true for so many people.
We're, we're so highly aware of.
The impact on other people thatwe don't slow down and realize,
oh my gosh, it's me.
I should be mindful of my ownburnout because we're so
concerned with everybody else.
Right?
It's that pleasing coming insaying, Nope, everybody else's
needs are more important.
I can power through.
I must be different.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2025 (13:00):
I can just do it like I can.
I can take that on.
And you know, as a leader, andI've been a leader for a really
long time.
I worked for a large Fortune 500company, managing half a billion
dollars worth of revenue.
Like I've been a leader.
I understand big responsibilityand I could always delegate.
That was never, I could always,Hey, can you do this?
Hey, can you do that?
But when the burnout got reallybad, I didn't wanna delegate
(13:21):
because I was like, everyoneelse must feel this overwhelmed.
Right.
E everyone else must feel thisway because you were small.
I'm, I'm, you know, we're partof a small team and so I
thought, okay, I'll just takethat on.
I can do that too.
I can, and it wasn't a matter ofthe work, again, the work was
not the problem.
It was the fact that I wasrunning at such a diminished
(13:42):
state.
Right?
Like, and I, this is one of thethings I learned through my
process of healing and wroteabout in the book, but like.
We show up every day and we putourselves into whatever day we
have planned.
Most people don't wake up in themorning and say, how am I
showing up today?
What, what can I, how can Iinsert myself into the day?
(14:04):
Or how do I insert the day intomyself, not insert myself into
the day?
Very different things.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (14:11):
Hmm.
That's so interesting.
And when you said that, well,everybody else must be feeling
this way.
It's so interesting.
'cause I think that there's twokinds of people in the world.
There's people that have learnedto use burnout as a cue that
they need to ask for help.
And then there's those of us andI fall into the same camp where
it's, no, when I am burned out,it's my cue to do more.
(14:32):
Because probably everybody elseis just as burned out, and so I
have to take on more, and it'ssuch an interesting contrast
between those two.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (14:41):
Yeah.
And, and there's no, there's noroom for error, right?
Like when, when you have so muchon your plate.
I knew, I kept saying, I knowthat I'm the holdup.
I knew it.
I kept and I kept saying, I knowthat I'm the problem, but I
didn't realize what the problemwas.
I just knew like everything wasgetting stuck with me, and it
(15:02):
was, not only did I do adisservice to myself, but I did
a disservice to my team and mybusiness partners and everybody
else.
What's funny though is if youwere to ask the folks around me,
I was as high performing asever.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (15:17):
Hmm.
So they were also unaware ofyour burnout.
Interesting,
marissa-campbell_1_10-2 (15:23):
Mm-hmm.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (15:23):
huh.
Well, and I'm really excited.
I know that everybody right nowis like, but how did you get
out?
And so we're gonna get intothat.
So Marissa did send me likethree big things.
Is there anything you wanna saybefore start jumping into those?
'cause I know everybody's like,oh my gosh, I've been there.
Help.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (15:38):
The, the only thing I wanna start
with is remove the idea thatsomething is going to take a
preconceived amount of timebecause I healed so fast and I'm
healing so fast, and I'm havingother people who are reaching
out and saying, I'm seeing sucha big impact from this so
quickly.
So like, if you're sitting thereand you're like, Ugh, I don't
(15:58):
have 10 hours to read a book,and I don't have, I don't have
six months to feel better.
I need to feel better now.
Like we can get you 10% betterby time you're done with this
podcast.
And so take away the idea thatthis has to be hard or that you
don't have time or that it'sgonna take a long time.
'cause none of those things aretrue.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (16:18):
Yeah.
Boy, that's an amazing promise.
You are going to feel 10% betterjust by listening to the end of
this podcast.
That's Them.
And, and I love thatencouragement that it could
happen faster than you think.
'cause when we're in thatburnout, we know that, uh, more
than likely you've been in thatstate for a long time, right?
And so the brain wants to say,well, it's gonna take forever to
(16:38):
get out because I've been herefor so long.
So how encouraging to discoverthat it actually happened.
The change was created fasterthan you thought.
Oh faster
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (16:49):
Way faster.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_ (16:50):
Oh, fun.
Okay, we're gonna jump inbecause this is just so juicy.
Okay, so tip number one is learnto check in, not check out.
Tell us about that.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-202 (16:59):
So the first thing that I, I
noticed is that I would just,whatever I had calendared for
that day.
So like I had mentioned toMaryAnn before, we jumped on,
like, I'm still running mystartup, right?
So I started, I did my firstsite visit at 7:00 AM I'm in
Florida right now, traveling atin Naples.
And now I'm in Orlando, so likeI've had a full life today.
And what would happen is I wouldjust have a full life, but I
(17:21):
would never check in on myself.
And so the first thing I Irealized is that we carry a
phone around with us everywherewe go, right?
And if you at your phone and thebattery is red and you're gonna
leave the house, what do you do?
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_ (17:35):
You plug that thing in, right?
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (17:36):
Right?
You plug it in, you make sureyou have a car charger, you take
a battery pack, you dosomething.
You assess the state of yourbattery before you walk out the
door.
maryann-walker--she-her (17:44):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (17:46):
The first thing I started doing was
assessing the state of mybattery, and so I started
thinking about myself as a giantbattery, right.
So I'm like, okay, where am I attoday?
And for the first three weeks Iwas in between single digits to
like 10%.
So hundred being a full batteryand zero being, I was in this,
(18:06):
this zero to 10 range every day.
And the, the shock that I feltwhen I was like, okay.
How does my battery feel today?
And the very first day, it waslike 5%, and I'm like 5%.
I have six one hour conferencecalls.
I've got 14 deliverables and Igot, I didn't have time for
(18:27):
that.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (18:28):
Yeah.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (18:28):
But instead of pushing through.
I thought, okay, because thebattery is an indicator of like
how much power you have and it'snot a science.
My 10% is gonna be differentfrom your 10%.
My 70% will look different fromyour 70%, so you don't get
caught up in that.
Just think about yourself,where's your batteries?
The next really important thingis to thi is to pick an emotion
(18:50):
word because 40% scared isdifferent from 40% excited.
Is different from 40% worried.
maryann-walker--she-her (19:02):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (19:03):
those are different things, right?
Like, so picking that emotionword really helps for you to tap
in to say, how am I feelingtoday?
maryann-walker--she-her (19:10):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-202 (19:11):
So that practice alone, that was
like how all this started andI'm like, okay, where's my
battery?
Okay.
It's getting a little better.
It's getting a little better.
I will tell you a few weeks agowhen I hit 80%, I have a friend
who I've been going back andforth with this as I've been
going process.
And I called her and I'm like,I'm at 80%.
(19:31):
She's like, you're at 80%.
And I was like, I'm at 80%.
And I was like, I could, I couldtake us to the moon, like I
could build us a rocket ship andwe could get to the moon.
I'm at 80%, I can take over theworld.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (19:44):
Yeah.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (19:44):
And it was just such a, like, it was
such a moment for her to benumber one, excited for me and
watch the healing.
But number two, she's like, onlyat 10%.
And I'm like, okay.
And then I'm like, how can Ihelp you today?
So the, the entire, the entireconcept of the book, which I'm
very excited, everybody can seethe cover, um, thank you, the
(20:07):
entire premise, and I, I'll flipto the page, is that you start
your every day with a heartcheck-in.
And so H-E-A-R-T.
So it's how is your battery?
What's your emotion wordalignment.
So I talked about like showingup in your day, like how are you
showing up today?
What are things you move basedupon how your battery is?
If your battery's super low,there's things you can shift and
(20:29):
move to make it easier onyourself to be a good version of
yourself, like to be your ownbest friend.
We talked about that when, whenyou and I did the podcast, like,
how can better align things?
Um, the next is relationships.
So what relationships need atouch base?
'cause inevitably when thingsstart to shift.
There are relationships thatneed to be touched.
And the last is tether.
And the tether is how you reallyget the battery increase very
(20:53):
quickly.
So like for example, if you wereto wake up this morning and
you're like, I'm at 25%, um, andyou think about your emotion
where you're like, I'm at 25%uncertain.
first thing you should brushyour teeth.
Okay?
But then the very first thingyou should do is you should
tether and tethering is anactivity that brings you back to
(21:14):
yourself.
maryann-walker--she-her (21:16):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-2 (21:16):
tethers are different, and the more I
ask people like what do they doto help themselves?
It, it's, it ranges from likegoing for a walk.
Um, some people will just wannasit on the bench.
Some people wanna listen tomusic and like have a dance
party in the kitchen and likejust move their, you know, body.
Everybody tethers different, andin the book I help you figure
out what your tethers are and totrack'em.
(21:37):
But you can literally see a 10%boost by tethering in the moment
you don't feel okay.
what you're doing is you'reprioritizing yourself and you're
telling your brain, Hey, Irecognize something's wrong.
I'm going to contribute.
And that quickly you'll start tosee an increase and you just do
(22:00):
it every day.
Or if things start to feel off.
maryann-walker--she-her (22:03):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (22:04):
um, I had a really hard call
yesterday at work and I had, mybattery was really high and some
things had happened and I waslike.
I don't feel okay.
I feel super, super, superanxious, but I couldn't figure
out where the anxiety was comingfrom.
And by the way, anxiety isn'tnecessarily like, uh, it's like
an alarm bell, like Like what doyou need to look into?
And I was like, okay, let mestop and let me do a heart
(22:26):
check.
And I realized I was feelinganxious because I wasn't
prepared for my meeting
maryann-walker--she-her (22:31):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2025 (22:32):
I had been on the road and in the
car and I couldn't do what Inormally do to prepare.
And I was feeling anxious.
I fixed the thing, but I wouldnever have known that had I not
worked on myself versus in mylife.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (22:46):
Yeah.
Okay, so give us anotherexample.
us back to the days whenMarissa's realizing she's at 5%
in her battery.
She has six one hour callswaiting for her.
What did that process look likefor you to go through that heart
check?
marissa-campbell_1_ (23:03):
Absolutely.
So, um, a few months into thisjourney, I was, um, just really
struggling.
Like I was, I was doing so muchbetter in so many ways, but it
wasn't fast enough, right?
Like, and, and, and I was in thethroes of writing a book and
launching a podcast and runninga startup and basically cleaning
(23:24):
up all this gunk had side mybrain and my body that had been
there for years and.
I had through a long series ofwork events, um, I had on a
Thursday afternoon.
I'm like, I need to go to thebeach now.
I travel a lot, so I have a tonof points, right?
Like that's perks of travelingall the time.
So literally booked a flight forthe next day and I went to the
beach.
(23:44):
So I'm like, okay, I'm gonnafeel better'cause I'm at the
beach.
Monday comes around, I have sixhours worth of calls.
trying, I've got deadlines forthe book, and I'm feeling super
overwhelmed and for meoverwhelmed, looks like snappy.
I'm not like a paralyzedoverwhelm or I'm like a, we need
to get this done.
(24:04):
We've got 14 things on the to-dolist.
I need everybody to stop whatthey're doing and get this thing
done, whatever that thing is,right?
And so I getting really snappyand it was on like hour three
and I was like, oh, I need torun a heart check.
My battery's really low.
And so I told my team, I'mgonna, I'm gonna step away for
(24:25):
15 minutes, and I literallyturned off my teams and I
stepped away for 15 minutes andI went outside and I did box
breathing.
As I walked, I did box breathingas I walked, and I just
reconnected to myself and I.
And in those moments, that 15minutes made the whole rest of
(24:45):
the day more productive becauseI wasn't in this loop of not
okay.
In those 15 minutes, I just didbox breathing.
While I walked.
I was walking in a parking lot.
It wasn't like I was in amagical land.
Okay?
And I was able to realize that Iwas feeling completely out of
control because of things that Icouldn't control.
(25:07):
So in that.
But it gave me space to think,how do you feel?
Where's your battery?
What is your emotion?
it?
Like who needs to touch base asa relationship?
And I realized there were thingsI could control.
maryann-walker--she-her (25:23):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-202 (25:23):
So instead of being overwhelmed
about all the things I couldn'tcontrol because I stopped long
enough to check on myself and totether, I could think more
clearly.
What would've happened fourmonths ago is I would've gone
into this entire shame spiralof.
Why isn't this working?
Why can't we get it done?
Why isn't it Why are we failing?
(25:45):
We weren't failing at all.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (25:47):
Yeah.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (25:48):
needed to control the things I could
control, but I couldn't see itbecause I was, my battery was so
low.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (25:54):
Yeah, I really appreciate that example
because in a perfect world it islike we're checking our phone
right before we start on theday, right?
And but.
Through that example, we cansee, just like with our phones,
that our energy is going towaver throughout the day.
And so continuously checking in,recognizing, and sometimes we
might not even recognize thatour battery's low, like you
(26:14):
said, until we find ourselvesbeing a little more irritable or
trying harder to control thingsthat in our control.
And we, we might notice thesymptoms of it first, but taking
some time to just check in andsee, okay, where's my battery
at?
How's it going?
And I also really love.
That you were so intentionalabout, first of all, recognizing
(26:35):
what it was that you needed, butbeing very intentional with that
time.
Doing the box breathing,knowing, okay, what's going to
give me that charge a little bitfaster?
Right?
Because just like how there'sdifferent chargers, like
everybody has their favoritecharger that they know is gonna
do the best job for'em,recognizing what's going to
actually fill me up.
Taking the time for it.
(26:56):
And, and now that makes so muchmore sense when you say that the
recovery was a lot faster thanyou
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-202 (27:01):
Oh yeah.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10 (27:01):
I can totally see it's because you
were so intentional about it.
You, you plugged into thesupercharger.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (27:06):
Every day.
And you know, the thing is likeI tried some things that I
thought would work for me andthey don't.
The biggest thing for me when Ineed to tether is I have to stop
the pull of communication out ofme.
So like.
Like teams, right?
Like our, my teams, my work Dding dings all the time, and I'm
to help and I want it to dingand I want people to come to me.
(27:27):
But when I'm in that momentwhere I'm super depleted, I turn
my phone on silent.
I don't want it to make anynoise.
I don't want to know thatanybody needs anything from me.
I just need to concentrate onmyself.
I usually start with breathingand just like reconnecting into
my body, and then sometimes Ineed to do something fun and
silly, and sometimes I need togo for a walk.
Sometimes I just go put my feetin the grass barefoot, and I'm
(27:50):
like with my face in the sun.
I just a
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (27:53):
Yep.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2025 (27:53):
I just need a moment.
need a moment.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (27:56):
Yeah, I love that.
Okay, so that was the first onewas learn to check in and Not
out.
The second one is, and you kindof touched on this a bit, but
name what you feel so it doesn'tname you.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (28:06):
Man, it is so important.
So, um, uh, gonna share a quickstory as I go into this one.
So, I was with my family thisweekend and my, um.
We had gone to dinner and myniece, um, had missed dinner.
She was working and she was, herfeelings were hurt and she was
upset and she was like, oh, Ireally wanted to go.
(28:26):
But I had, you know, she wasworking and um, and she seemed a
little off.
And so we were standing theretalking and, and I could tell
that she was depleted,
maryann-walker--she-her (28:34):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (28:35):
but it wasn't the time to
necessarily talk about it.
So the next morning we'resitting at the breakfast table
and.
She's working on her computer.
She's so hard, such a hardworker.
And I look at her and I'm like,oh, she's really not okay.
And so I was like, Hey, do youwanna run a battery?
You wanna run a heart check?
I wanna know what your batteryis.
She's like, I'd really lovethat.
And she closes her computer andshe's like, I'm at 10%.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (29:00):
Hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (29:00):
okay.
She's 23.
Beautiful.
Brilliant.
The whole world ahead of her,right?
Doesn't seem like an idealcandidate for burnout.
And, uh, I was like, okay,what's your emotion word?
And she sat for a minute andshe's like, uncertain.
And her boyfriend was sittingthere at the table
maryann-walker--she-her (29:21):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (29:22):
he's like, I'm 60%.
And I'm like, okay.
So if she's, you know, 10%uncertain and he was 60% annoyed
'cause he had to go to work.
But there wasn't, there wasn'tan actual real problem.
He was just didn't wanna have towork that day.
He wanted hang out.
Right.
Totally fine.
Um.
All of a sudden he realized thatshe was not okay and she was
(29:43):
uncertain.
And I'm like, okay, well whatare you uncertain about?
And she was like, well, I'muncertain about, you know, the
future and all these things thatare out of our control and you
know how we get in our head andit just spirals.
And I was like, I think that youguys should go tether.
Would be like, where do you feelmost disconnected?
She's like, I don't feelconnected to my body and I don't
really feel connected to mymind.
(30:03):
I said, okay.
So I was like, what if you gofor just a 10 minute walk and
play?
I spy?
And she was like, okay.
Right after I finish this thing,I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
That's not how it works.
I was you, if you feel uncertainand you're depleted and you're
10% close your computer, theworld is not gonna catch on fire
in 10 minutes and go.
She felt so much betterafterwards.
(30:24):
The reason why the emotion wordis so important is because if
she had said 10%, whatever, mad,or 10%, I don't, whatever word
it was, it's different thanuncertain.
Uncertain, cued to me that shefeels like things are out of
control and she feels like shedoesn't know what's gonna happen
(30:45):
next.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (30:46):
Hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (30:47):
Right.
And so you're able to handlethings differently.
Like if you called me and you'relike, Hey, I'm like 25%.
I'll like, okay, tell me 25%isn't ideal, right?
It's not great, but tell memore.
And then you tell me a wholelong story about your day and
you're like, well, I went to thegrocery store and they didn't
have what I needed.
(31:07):
And then I was on my way homeand I was late and I forgot to
pick somebody like you.
not the same as one word, whichis maybe in that situation you
felt less than,
maryann-walker--she-her (31:18):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (31:19):
right?
Less than can be an emotion,right?
Like you felt you weren't ableto get it all done.
That is more impactful thanbecause we get lost in the
story, right?
I'm like, oh, all those, allthose things happen.
I'm so sorry, but if you'relike, I feel less than I can
then say.
I mean, like I appreciate yourfeelings and they're valid, but
look at all the amazing thingsyou did, because sometimes we
(31:40):
don't see it from theperspective.
Right.
And that's where.
It's built for teams.
This, this entire premise isbuilt for teams because we need
a team to support ourselves at aburnout, but it absolutely be
used as an individual person.
And so, but to create commonlanguage and for you to be able
to say to me, like, let's sayyou see a post and I'm like,
Hey, everything's awesome.
(32:01):
And you're like, I just noticedthere was something a little
off.
And I'm like, I'm actually atlike 30%, um, trepidatious or
whatever, right?
So.
Those, those, those words matterbecause sometimes we get caught
up in all the story and or wedon't assess at all.
So being able to assign a singleword really helps us hone in on,
(32:22):
on how we feel.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (32:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
Just the naming it to tame itand seeing like, okay, what's
actually coming up?
Because I think you're spot onthat sometimes we do get too
caught up in our story to justslow it down enough to go, oh,
okay.
Huh, I'm feeling anxious.
That's interesting.
And then we can be more curiousabout it.
Like, well, okay, so why am Ifeeling anxious?
Is that actually the word I'mlooking for?
(32:45):
And then it gives youinformation.
'cause once you know what theemotion is, then you can
actually steps too.
To course correct.
Right.
That, oh, okay.
Well, I'm feeling anxious, butreally, I don't have to be
scared,
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (32:56):
Right, right.
And I, I together a.
I put together a word bankbecause like I found that I was
going to the same, like fivewords all the time.
And so, um, there's a word bankthat's part of, you know, a tool
and it's like two pages of wordsyou can pick out.
What I caution is that if youalways are having the same word,
like I had a few days where Iwas just mad, I was mad about
everything.
(33:17):
And what I realized is I wasn'tactually mad.
Um, I was.
Not taking the time to reallyunderstand what I was feeling,
and I was assigning it mad.
I'm just mad, you know, but WasI mad?
maryann-walker--she-her (33:32):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2025 (33:33):
I just, I was like, well, I just,
you know, I've got a lot of the,the truth is I felt a lot of
big, complex feelings.
They weren't necessarily mad,but I put it as mad.
So finding those words, andagain, it's not about being
perfect.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (33:48):
Yep.
So true.
Yep.
I think that the bulk of people,they know three emotions.
They know sad, mad, and glad, toreally sit with it, like you
said, okay, am I feeling angry?
Am I feeling mad, or am Ifeeling like things are out of
control?
Am I feeling inadequate?
Am I feeling, you know, it's,there's so many different things
that are underneath anger, butwe don't usually take the time
(34:11):
to really sit with it and noticethose small differences.
But also when you're able toname it, you're able to
recognize, oh, that's how thatfeels in my body.
Oh, I know that emotion.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (34:21):
Yeah, and then you can do something,
right, but you have to take thetime to pause and name it and
then, oh, what are you gonna donext?
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (34:30):
Yeah, I love it.
Okay.
And then tip number three isprotect your energy like it's
your livelihood because it is.
Tell us more about that.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (34:39):
Um, I am the first person to want to
help.
I really have a servant's heart.
I've always been this way.
Um, and when we, um, weretogether last on my podcast, you
talked about mowing the grass.
And by the way, I've beentalking about that nonstop and,
um, to everybody, I'm like,listen, like, are you being a
(35:00):
good, best friend to yourself,right?
Like, what, what are, what areyou doing?
So.
the oxygen mass theory, whichwe've all heard.
You go on a plane, I fly all thetime, and they're like, Hey, you
have a child next to you.
Do you know you're supposed totake care of yourself first?
we don't realize that when wedon't take care of ourselves and
protect our energy above allthings, we're not a good
(35:22):
partner.
We're not a good spouse.
We're not as good of a parent,we're not as good of a friend.
We're not as good at our job,we're not as good at anything
because we're coming from adepleted resource.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_ (35:33):
Hm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2 (35:33):
It's like if you, if someone would've
asked to borrow eggs and youbrought them over empty
eggshells, it's not the same.
It's just not.
And I didn't realize for howmany years I had been doing such
a disservice, not only tomyself, but everybody I
interacted with, because I wasalways just a shell of the
person that I was.
(35:54):
The moment that I made thedecision to protect me, my mind,
my body, and my spirit equally.
It just started shifting thingsso quickly.
It's like once I prioritizedmyself, I got way more done at
work.
I am more efficient than I havebeen in years.
I'm happier to be around.
(36:14):
There was a situation, um, thisweekend with my family.
They're always chronically late.
I love them, but like time isjust not, time is not linear for
them.
um, it was my best friend'sbirthday and we had plans to be
somewhere at four o'clock.
I know that there was no way wewere gonna be there four
o'clock, but old Marissawould've been ate up that we
(36:37):
were not on time.
There was people waiting for us.
I would've been like, come onyou guys, we gotta go.
I would've been like yelling atpeople to get in the car.
And instead what I did was Ithought to myself before the
event, I know we're gonna belate.
I know that it's not a personalattack on me, this is just how
we operate as a unit.
There's a lot of us.
So what I can do is, number one,I made dinner for afterwards
(37:02):
that would hold in a crockpot.
So we weren't trying to do allthis cooking.
So I prepared for the situation,and then as everything was
unfolding exactly as I thoughtit would, and exactly as it
always does,
maryann-walker--she-her (37:13):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-2025 (37:13):
I was able to protect my energy
because I wasn't setting anexpectation improperly, number
one and number two, it's okay.
I didn't let myself get anxious.
I didn't get myself get mad.
I wasn't like trying to movethem.
I wasn't trying to control thesituation or any of those
things.
I was able to be present becausemy battery wasn't depleted.
(37:39):
My battery was full.
I mean, I was probably at 75%,which in this journey is
excellent for me.
And it was all okay.
I was able to handle everythingbetter.
And in fact, we got in the carand one of my friends looked at
me.
She goes, who are you?
She was like the old, youwould've been like yelling at
everybody to get in the carwe're late and you would've
left.
I was like, probably.
(38:00):
She's like, why are you so calm?
And I was like, it's okay.
And she's like, but why is itokay?
I said, because I'm notdepleted.
And when we come to thingsdepleted, we're never the best
version of ourselves.
That's why you have your energyat all costs.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10 (38:15):
I love that so much.
I love how that ties in withthey check your battery, right?
Because it also begs thequestion, okay, what do I want
to spend my energy on?
Do I want to spend my energy ontrying to control people so that
they show up on time?
Do I want to use my energy torage in traffic or do I just
wanna save it and just be like,okay, I'm just gonna pause.
(38:38):
I'm gonna invest my energy whereI want to intentionally invest
it, but then you can actuallyinvest into the things light you
up and bring you joy
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (38:46):
Yeah.
And it was okay
maryann-walker--she-her- (38:47):
you're showing up depleted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (38:50):
was okay, right?
And we went to the escape roomand we saved Igor and it was
super fun was great and it wasall fine.
But the old Marissa would'vebeen so upset that we were late
that would not have enjoyed theevent I would had, I just
would've handled everythingdifferently.
And it all comes back to likethe root causes.
I wasn't depleted.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_1 (39:12):
I, I love that.
I'm gonna be thinking on that alot.
Like, okay, what do I need tosay yes to?
And what do I need to say no to,to protect my energy?
what would that look like?
What would that do for me?
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (39:22):
Yeah.
And if things start to gosideways and you start to notice
your energy's depleted, how canyou do these small tethers to
come back to yourself?
Like, I don't care if peoplethink that I'm crazy, that in
the middle of the rain a fewweeks ago, I ran out and put my
feet in the dirt and just stoodthere in the rain.
I didn't care that I was gettingwet.
needed to go stand with justmyself without any noise with my
(39:44):
feet in the ground and feelwater hit my face.
maryann-walker--she-her (39:48):
Mm-hmm.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (39:48):
helps.
So whatever your tether is, doit.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (39:52):
Hmm.
I love that.
Well, I am already feeling 10%less burned out.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29 (39:58):
That's amazing.
That's amazing.
And
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_1 (40:00):
to promise.
marissa-campbell_1_10-2 (40:01):
thanks.
It's really cool too.
The book is, it's not just aread book, um, it's more like a
workbook and there's prompts.
So as you go through it, there'squestions and you'll start to
like, answer these questionsabout yourself.
There's a really cool burnoutchecklist, so you can see is
burnout affecting you, and thenthere's a, a way to try to
figure out what your tethers areand to figure out what tethers
work for you.
So it's a really quick read.
(40:22):
It's, it's really intended to belike a C one, do one, teach one
type of thing.
Um, so you're not spending, youknow, the next seven days in a
book that you may take onelittle nugget from.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (40:31):
Yeah, I love that.
And speaking of nuggets, yeah,I'm just gonna review the
nuggets that you shared and thenI wanna hear if you feel like
there's like one main takeawaythat you'd like to share with
the audience.
But, so the three tips werelearn to check in, not check
out.
And Marissa talked about usingthe the heart check.
So I'm gonna put, she left me adescription.
I'll put all of that in theshow.
(40:51):
And name what you feel so itdoesn't name you and protecting
your energy like it's yourlivelihood because it is.
I just love it.
So, yeah.
So as we're wrapping up here, ifyou did have one main takeaway
that you'd like for the audienceto really take to heart, what
would it be?
I.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (41:08):
Um, you're not broken.
There's nothing wrong with you.
There's nothing to fix.
Um.
I felt so broken and I felt soalone, and I felt like the worst
version of myself for a reallylong time.
And what I realized is that if Ijust come back to self and I
come home and I figure out whatbrings me joy and I figure out.
(41:31):
Where my battery is and how muchenergy I'm bringing to things
that I came back to life, but I,I didn't, it was, there wasn't
like this, there wasn't anythingwrong with me.
I just had gotten lost along theway and all the crazy loud noise
and all the things I should bedoing.
And when I just remembered thatI needed to come back to myself,
(41:52):
it all worked so well and sofast.
And so please don't ever thinkyou're broken.
There's nothing wrong with you.
You just have to remember.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1_10 (42:01):
I absolutely love that.
Yeah.
Yep.
Wholeheartedly agree.
I think it's really easy to beatourselves up'cause we're always
comparing our worst to somebodyelse's best and thinking, well I
must be broken'cause I'm theonly one burned out, or I'm the
only one having a hard timeright now.
Or assuming everybody else ishaving a harder time, so I
should take on their load, whichthen perpetuates our own
(42:22):
burnout.
But yeah, I think we all needthose reminders that you shared
with us today that, no, you'renot broken.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29-20 (42:28):
so.
maryann-walker--she-her-_1 (42:28):
This is just a reminder to check back
in with self, to check yourbattery to do something that
lights you up and and gives youthat charge and that boost that
you need.
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (42:38):
Yeah, work your way back.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (42:39):
Yeah.
Well, Marissa, this has justbeen such a lovely conversation.
Thank you so much for coming on
marissa-campbell_1_10-29- (42:45):
Thank you so much for having me.
maryann-walker--she-her-_ (42:47):
yeah, and if people would like to find
you or like to purchase theirbook, of course I'll put all of
the contact information in theshow notes, but tell them where
they can find you.
marissa-campbell_1_ (42:54):
Absolutely.
So if you wanna listen to thepodcast, we're everywhere where
you can listen to podcasts.
It's Art of Heart by MarissaCampbell.
The book is on Amazon Lead WithHeart.
If you just put in Lead WithHeart, Marissa Campbell, it'll
show up.
It's on Kindle and available forprint.
And um, you know, check me outon um, uh, Instagram and I'm on
LinkedIn and um, please say hiand send me a note.
(43:15):
I would love to hear fromeverybody.
maryann-walker--she-he (43:17):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much and as areminder, everybody, you're not
broken.
You just might be experiencing alittle bit of burnout, and
hopefully these tips will helpyou to feel at least 10% better.
So I hope you have a great week,everybody, and let's talk soon.
Bye now.
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