October 25, 2024 • 44 mins
What happens when a small town in North Carolina embraces cutting-edge technology to become a leader in smart city innovation? In this episode, host Ed McNamara is joined by SHI’s Senior Vice President of Public Sector Sales, Denise Collison, and special guest Dan Ault, Assistant Town Manager and Chief Innovation Officer for Cary, North Carolina.
Together, they dive into the challenges and successes of digital transformation in local government. Ault shares insights on pioneering smart city initiatives, securing critical infrastructure, and improving citizen engagement, while Collison adds her expertise on navigating the unique complexities of public sector technology adoption.
Through this conversation, listeners get a glimpse of how municipalities like Cary are leveraging technology to create more connected, efficient, and secure communities. From the use of sensors to mitigate stormwater risks to the implementation of a groundbreaking 311 system, Ault’s work exemplifies the future of digital government.
Listen to the full episode below or wherever you get your podcasts.
Featuring: Dan Ault, Assistant Town Manager and Chief Innovation Officer of the Town of Cary, North Carolina and Denise Collison, Senior Vice-President of Public Sector Sales at SHI
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Given the timeless nature of localgovernment, it's it's not about getting
it out this quarter that quarter.
It's about getting it outright and getting out in a
way that's going to add value.
Um, so yeah, that's somethingthat's on our minds a lot.
A lot.
Transparency
in the world of technology.
Heroes are everywhere.
They're overcoming disruption, deliveringsustainable outcomes and fearlessly
(00:23):
forging the future to solve what's next.
Join me Ed McNamara, as we meet thepeople and businesses driving change
in our constantly disruptive world.
This is innovation heroes, apodcast brought to you by SHI.
Today I'm joined by DeniseCollison, the senior vice president
of public sector here at SHI.
(00:45):
Denise and a few hundred of herclosest friends in our public sector
sector play a pivotal role in shapingstrategies that determine how to best
support SHI's federal state and localgovernment customers, as well as those
in K through 12 higher education.
and public health schoolsand organizations.
Her leadership ensures thatthe public sector team stays
(01:05):
focused on its mission to deliverimpactful solutions and services.
Denise, welcome to the show.
Thanks, Ed.
So happy to be here today.
Thank you.
In this episode, we'll explorethe evolving responsibilities
of municipal CIOs.
The challenges they face andthe innovative solutions they're
implementing to meet and serve theircommunities in the digital age.
(01:26):
A little later, we're going to hearfrom Dan Ault, assistant town manager
and chief innovation officer forthe town of Cary, North Carolina.
But for now, let's hear a little bitabout you and your role here at SHI.
Yeah, absolutely.
So you kind of mentioned it a little bit.
I have 750 people on my team.
All of those people are focusedon helping public sector entities.
(01:49):
meet their digital transformation goals.
So we aim to be a true partner inthat journey, which, as we will talk
about today, can be complicated,um, fraught with roadblocks
and things that are unexpected.
But our job is to support our clientsthrough all of that and get to the end,
which is really impactful for all of usbecause every one of us is a constituent.
(02:13):
Every one of us is a receiver of servicesthat we are helping to implement.
So it's really meaningfulwork that we're doing here.
Um, and the kind of the cocktail partyconversation, I'm sure that, you know,
what you do in the public sector has,um, you know, it differs slightly
from some of the things that thatdelivers the public sector customers
versus, um, commercial organizations.
(02:35):
I'm sure you get that question allthe time, but what are some of the big
differences in terms of what does forpublic sector customers versus commercial?
Or what are some of the added thingsthat are necessary for us to do?
That's a great question.
You know, I think foundationallythe technology is the same, but how
the customers need to use it, howthey need to implement it and how
(02:55):
they actually have to go procure it.
And the things leading up to thatprocurement are wildly different.
And so that's kind of where we focus andwe'll, we'll talk about it, I think in
a little bit, but things like fundingsources, things like, um, really specific,
proof of deliveries and proof of conceptsto make sure these projects don't fail
(03:16):
because there's not a dime to waste.
Um, grants, all those types of thingscome into play in the public sector,
contract vehicles that may or may not comeinto play outside of the public sector.
So that's what really makes it different.
And a lot of patience, a lot ofpatience for our civil servants.
When they talk to musiciansor songwriters, right?
(03:37):
They say, what comes first,the music or the words?
What comes first in public sector?
I suspect it's one or theother, but what comes first?
The, the availability of funding?
The identification of a need?
The identification of a technology?
Or yes, all of the above?
It's a little yes, all of theabove, but I'm going to actually
go in a different direction.
I think, Once there's tons ofideas, there's no shortage of ideas.
(04:00):
It's prioritization is actuallythe thing that has to come first
is figuring out where to start.
What's the most important thingfor that local municipality,
that school, that hospital.
And then from there it'sokay now parallel motions.
I think, how are we goingto fund this project?
And also what does this project need tolook like and how do we future proof it?
(04:23):
That actually is the biggest part of theconversation because They don't have, like
I said, money to waste, so we can't getto the end of the solution, which can take
a year, four years, five years, dependingon what we're talking about, and then
have to turn around and do it all again.
So, I think that prioritization is key,and that really has to come first, and we
can help the customers with that as well.
(04:44):
We do a lot of, you know, art of thepossible, you know, here's where you are
in all facets of your journey, here'swhere we should start, this is why it
makes sense, and then we go from there.
So in terms of prioritization being thekey, um, what are the, let's take that
as, as, as the first, as the first,obviously, I mean, it's prioritization.
So it has to be first, right?
(05:05):
But what are, what are two or three otherkey challenges CIOs face when it comes to,
um, you know, just evolving and technicaltransformation at the municipal level?
This is such a hard question.
We're going to hear Dan talk about thisa little too, I think, in a little while.
Um, but there's just so many.
It's hard to narrow down totwo or three, so I'm going to
just quickly go through a few.
There's a couple that are linked.
(05:26):
First of all, a lot of localmunicipalities are very siloed
organizations, so getting thatcollaboration cross department, cross
organization can be very challenging.
In addition, within those organizations,there's competing priorities.
And so, you have to have extraskill at bringing people on board,
organizational change, um, all ofthose types of conversations, even
(05:48):
to just get an idea off the ground.
Um, so that's like, that to me is thefirst one, and probably the biggest CIOs.
Then you have to look at skills gaps.
There's a lot of, you know, Legacy systemswith a lot of people who know how to
use those legacy systems really well.
But then when it comes to moderntechnology, there's a lack of skill and
(06:10):
we are competing to hire people with thoseskills into local government alongside
corporations who can pay a whole lot more.
Um, so that's definitely an issue as well.
And then I think just when you lookat the technology, cyber sticks out.
I mean, cyber is a challenge for everybodyright now, but as you transform, as you.
(06:30):
Um, so when you think about new ways touse your data, it is really challenging to
keep people safe, to keep our data safe.
And so that's an additional challenge.
The last one I want to quickly mentionis, When you're talking about local
government, you're talking about havingto get constituent buy in as well.
And so getting out into the community andgetting those people on board and excited
(06:51):
and, and really bought in and how thosetaxpayer dollars are going to be spent
and how it's going to make their livesbetter is an additional challenge that's
really unique to, uh, local government.
Got it.
Okay.
When we think about chiefinformation officers, our minds
often go to the private sector.
Okay.
Big corporations, cuttingedge tech firms and startups.
(07:13):
But what about the CIOs whoare quietly driving innovation
within our own local governments?
How often do we consider therole of CIO in making our city
smarter, safer, and more connected?
Today we're pulling back the curtainon the vital role of the municipal CIO.
Our guest Dan Ault serves as the assistanttown manager and chief innovation officer
for the town of Cary, North Carolina.
(07:35):
Where he's been pioneering digitaltransformation efforts that are setting
new standards in city management.
From improving citizen engagementto securing critical infrastructure,
Dan's work exemplifies the intersectionof technology and public service.
For those of you watching this andnoticed a different background,
this conversation took place rightbefore we completed our new studio.
(07:56):
Hopefully those of you listeningnoticed no change at all.
But this episode is packed with keyinsights, so let's jump in and afterwards
Denise and I will share our thoughtson managing digital transformation.
Within local government.
Dan, welcome to theinnovation heroes podcast.
Thank you so much, Ed.
So I was intrigued to learn that youalways knew you wanted to be a city
(08:18):
manager from the time you were just a kid,um, out of all the things a little kid
dreams of becoming, what is it about citymanagement that appealed to you so much?
Well, I think it started atas initially just an entrance,
uh, interest in government andmaybe geography, um, to start.
And as I grew a little bit olderand got to about age seven, and
(08:40):
I think I started Little Leagueor whatever it was, Minor League.
Uh, I was checking out the stats and,and in the little newspaper I grew up in
a small town called Howard, Wisconsin.
Um, we had just hired our firstvillage administrator, which is
the equivalent of a city manager.
And that was, it spoketo me even that young.
I asked my parents straightaway, I'm like, who is this?
This is really what Iwant to do in government.
(09:00):
Like, he seems to be, youknow, Um, a part of everything.
So right then and there it was kindof just always in the back of my
mind as something that I aspired for.
Um, quietly for most of my childhood.
But just, yeah, from that point, I knew
I think you, um, you went to school forpoli sci, not necessarily for technology.
Is that right?
(09:20):
Yeah.
Yeah, that that's that's accurate.
Um, so I went to school and, um, atfirst it was just kind of general
political science work, summer ingovernment and then Uh, with the help
of some advisors, they brought meback to my roots and, uh, encouraged
me to pursue public administration,um, specifically and city management.
(09:41):
So, over the last decade, howhas the role of the CIO in
municipal government evolved?
Uh, especially in terms of balancingtraditional IT responsibilities
with the push for innovation.
So, you've got your everyday IT, butthen you've got innovate, um, especially
where, where, you know, Where you'rewhere you're the chief innovation officer.
(10:01):
We'll get back to that.
But how is it evolvingover the last decade?
It's I mean, it's been exponential.
Um, I think about a decade ago, therewas a lot of talk about whether it's
the chief marketing officer or thechief information officer that's
going to play the bigger role.
Um, certainly both have evolvedinto large roles in cities.
It's more along the lines of chiefinformation officers and chief
(10:22):
technology officers who have beenin it since, you know, the nineties
is really where it came into play.
But within municipalities, particularly,we've kind of always been the
laggards a little bit, uh, in termsof new technologies, uh, and that's
been, you know, for, for decades.
Um, and so in the last decade,what's really changed is
it's, it's starting to spread.
(10:42):
What used to be kind of just, uh, uh,it's, it's own silo is now very much
diffused because of what's happened inthe consumer technology world and what
people expect in their everyday lives.
So the pressure is to keep legacysystems going because there
maybe hasn't been innovation in.
Every space that's necessary to developthe infrastructure that is, is going
(11:03):
to be necessary to operate a high techsociety in the information age isn't
quite there, so you have to, on onehand, continue to maintain stuff or to
provide services every day and at thesame time, try to find ways where you
safely can introduce new technologiesand do so where you have, in some
cases, people that are very advanced intechnological expertise in other areas
(11:27):
where they may be, you know, are lackingand don't have the desire to advance.
So it's, it's really, uh, a paradigm that,um, almost on a daily, weekly basis, I.
T.
Departments are facing just a myriad ofdifferent types of challenges in cities.
So in terms of exactly where carryNorth Carolina is located, Um, it
(11:49):
feels like your constituents are agroup that can be very IT savvy in
comparison to some other places.
I mean, just for background, um, we'retalking really that research triangle
of Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Cary.
There's three research universitiesthere with University of North
Carolina, NC State, Duke.
(12:10):
you know, that whole researchtriangle is really a 1950s
concept that never ran out of gas.
It's, it's, it's, if anything, it'sprobably going even, even faster.
So like, when you, when you think aboutthe people that you serve, like, is
it actually in your mind, like, well,we have to innovate because these
guys are literally at the cutting edgeof, you know, pretty much everything.
(12:31):
Absolutely.
I mean, it's absolutely true.
I couldn't have said it any better.
Um, the research triangle regionthat we're in, the universities.
Uh, the research firms, thebiosciences, the SAS, and so on and
so forth, the places that reallykind of put this place on a map.
I think they're bringing so manytimeless elements, education, research,
(12:52):
um, and with that, our citizenryis very advanced in these topics.
Um, they have high expectations.
We have a unique phenomena currently.
It may change over time, but uh,demographically, a lot of folks,
you know, came from somewhereelse, whether they were immigrants
or from within the United States.
But it's very common in Cary thatpeople came from somewhere else and
they did so intentionally because theycould, because they had an opportunity.
(13:16):
So that very much lends itselfto a citizenry that has high
and realistic expectations.
So those are in today's worlda very unique combination.
I refer to it sometimes as a endangeredecosystem of democracy with our citizenry.
So to me, yeah, I saw it as a way thatcould help push me to be the best version
(13:36):
of Of myself as I could be and alsoas an opportunity to continue to learn
and, um, and continue to push change.
Because if it can be done here,I feel like it has an opportunity
to be done elsewhere as well.
And, and you, you relocated toto carry to take this position,
if I'm not mistaken, right?
(13:57):
Was that, did that make itthat much more exciting?
I'd say, okay.
Like I'm not the only person that'sthat's transitioning here and number
one and number two, I'm going to getthe opportunity to innovate here.
Absolutely.
Um, that was a leading factor for me.
I previously, um, was fortunateenough to work and go to graduate
school in the state of Illinois.
And I'm from Wisconsin originallyand also worked there in a county.
(14:18):
Um, so slowly been making my waysouth, but the region's appeal
with, with the research triangle wasdefinitely a leading factor for me.
It stood out and I'm like, this is.
A unique op opportunity on topof a unique opportunity, on
top of a unique opportunity.
And that's something thatdoesn't just come along any day.
So, um, I, I was just fortunate tohave that and, and to, you know,
it's something I think about a lot.
(14:40):
Um, other factors are thestate of North Carolina.
It's a beautiful state.
Um, I, I love the latitude rat.
I love the, the landscape of the coastto the mountains, to the, you know,
the Piedmont, um, beautiful pine trees.
So there's a lot of things that are, youknow, going in this neck of the woods.
So all those thingstogether really made it, um.
You know, an easy decision in that sense.
But given my profession, thecitizenry and the research right
(15:03):
was a really strong factor.
Yeah, I'm in central New Jersey right now,and I can tell you that I know at least 10
or or 12, you know, different people whoare, who are relocated to North Carolina.
And, uh, believe me, I, I get the, the,the text in the, in the middle of January,
you know, with the pictures outside.
It's like you guys don't have to rub itin, believe me, . But, so from a, from a
(15:26):
digital transformation, um, perspective,we hear a lot of buzz about smart cities.
Um.
Can you share some specific examplesof digital initiatives that have been
successfully implemented in Cary?
What kind of initiatives havehelped improve municipal services?
Yeah, so, I mean, we have, Imean, a number of initiatives.
(15:47):
In fact, I was on a call earlier today.
The different number of projects we have,it's in the hundreds and the thousands.
So, there's a variety of them.
We've done a lot of work earlyin my time with the town, IT
and several other departmentspartnered on sensors for stormwater.
I believe that the success ofthose is only going to continue
to appreciate with time.
(16:08):
Um, the smart cities conceptfor me just personally is more
of a marketing kind of thing.
I think cities have been smart forever.
It's just the vehicle, the rivercivilizations I often go to.
Those were the original smart cities.
Um, so to me, I think it's less abouttrying to capture the buzz of something
versus just really being intentional aboutthe movements that a municipality makes.
(16:30):
Thinking of it that wayis a little bit different.
So, um, the biggest one, and I'msure I'll talk about it later too, is
our 3 in 1 initiative, which is, youknow, more than just a contact center.
It's the vehicle to, um, youknow, with intent and with
thoughtfulness, incorporate thingsthat people often call smart cities.
Um, into a cohesive infrastructure, andthe way that you do that is, is by, um,
(16:53):
looking at the different entry points,9 1 So, um, there's a variety there with
things, again, related to sensors inparticular that we've had success with.
There's other things that we're doing,whether it's with drones, um, and a
variety of things that are also thingsthat could fall under the smart cities,
um, you know, umbrella, cameras, certainlyother things they're starting to look
at, but not, haven't done too much yet.
(17:16):
And then the old one that wasthere way before carry was
advanced in so many areas.
Our traffic center was wayahead of its time again.
It predates the idea of a smartcity as a marketing kind of thing.
But, uh, the intelligent traffic centeris one of the things I'm most proud of,
and we're continuing to now modernizethat and also become an even bigger
regional partner managing infrastructurefor surrounding municipalities.
(17:39):
And we also do that in utilities as well.
So, um, those are some of the, theones that, They aren't brand new, but
they're, we're continuing to improveupon what was way ahead of its time.
Um, you know, kind of a quote,smart cities initiative.
So, those are some of the mostsuccessful ones that come to mind.
How important is it?
I mean, we're just cities.
We're really just talking about, youknow, imaginary lines and drawn in the,
(18:03):
in the earth, you know, but you gotRaleigh, Durham, you got Chapel Hill,
you got Cary, like they're all kind ofexist, you know, right around one another.
And I'm sure there's, there's somemunicipalities that the smaller
municipalities that are missing thereand you're all within the state.
of North Carolina and there'sdifferent jurisdictions.
I mean, how, how important is it?
Like, like you could say from a utopianpoint of view, well, I'm just going to
(18:24):
worry about what I, what's within mycontrol, but like, you have to be, there
must be partnership with the surroundingareas in at least the state, right?
How important is that?
Well, I think it's it'salways been important.
Um, and it continues to beimportant because you're right.
The political boundaries matter.
And certainly I'd never forget, youknow, who's signing my paycheck.
There's no doubt about that.
So there's, uh, there's a very much abias that's up front there without a
(18:48):
doubt that that I'm pulling for Cary
however, it's just my opinionand also my experiences.
There's less regional competition.
There's some still.
It's more national and internationalnow that we're competing.
So our success is their success.
We all can bring somethinga little different.
Um, where we, we do competeon the edges, no question.
(19:09):
And I think that's healthybecause it makes us all better.
Uh, but not to the point whereit's counterproductive is,
is always kind of the idea.
In the state of North Carolina, ithelps make that, um, more competitive.
know, happen more often than not,maybe more so than in other states.
Um, I don't know for sure,but that's just my opinion.
Um, and so, yeah, in carry, weare fortunate to be in the middle
of that triangle geographically.
(19:31):
So we are immediately adjacentto Raleigh and Durham.
Um, and we're in three counties,Durham County, Wake County is their
primary one in Chatham County as well.
Um, to our West.
So it's a little bit of urban, suburbanand rural also kind of adjacent to us.
Um, but being right in the middleof the research triangle, we have
an ability to partner with manymunicipalities in the region.
(19:53):
Um, and we also are positioned well aspeople move through the region and not
to mention the region, but the state.
And we're also the midwaypoint of the East Coast.
So we're kind of, I like tojoke that we're the center
of the center of the center.
Um, and from that position geographically.
Uh, there's, I mean,opportunities if we, um, so choose
(20:15):
when you're saying about thecompetition on the national
and the international level.
Um, you know, there are, there arepeople out there that are pitching
businesses to come to North Carolina.
Like, have you, have you ever likestopped and heard somebody pitching North
Carolina and be like, I worked on thatproject and that's going to be attractive
to somebody like possibly considering,uh, you know, moving a business here.
(20:36):
Yeah.
I mean, certainly in my timehere, there's been some, uh, big
pushes, uh, that we've been partof and then some, uh, smaller ones.
And frankly, it's kindof a backwards world.
There's been some that, you know, intoday's, you know, currently today
we, we are known as a desirable place.
So in some cases it.
Places come without us even trying,which is a little bit was unusual
(20:57):
to my previous experiences, but ithelps you kind of understand what
your competitive advantages are.
It helps you understand whereyou maybe need to grow or where
you have some blind spots thatyou need to improve as a region.
Um, we're going very much from beinglike a big little city region to now, you
know, kind of a little big city region.
(21:17):
So it's kind of a transitionin terms of, you know,
Metropolitan areas in that sense.
So those processes are something athat is very rewarding to be able to
compete internationally and nationally.
Um, and then also to be successful inso many areas as the region has been.
Um, you know, we always wanted and carry.
But sometimes, frankly, we knowin the region, um, it's better
(21:37):
somewhere else, like an R.
T.
P.
Or something like that.
So
Yeah, I would imagine just having,you know, um, like public sector.
I.
T.
As you cited as a competitive advantagethat that has got to be, you know,
extremely satisfying, um, public sector.
I.
T.
Departments face unique challenges.
There's budget constraints.
There's public scrutiny.
(21:58):
You know, how do you prioritizeprojects and manage these challenges
while still driving innovation?
Well, so I think there'sa couple of things.
I think one of the ways is ifyou're serious about innovation,
which is something formunicipalities to consider because.
It's a relatively new concept tothink of innovation so positively,
especially in government.
Traditionally, it wouldhave been seen as a threat.
(22:18):
Um, it's important toremember those pieces.
I believe that if you're going tosystematically and systemically ingrain
innovation, it's best done, uh, bothingrained in the operations and segmented.
So you have to have some at leastsmall group that's kind of dedicated
every day to systematically ingraininginnovation through, uh, both.
(22:40):
A standardized mechanized process.
Otherwise, the weight and the gravityof our work each day will create an
environment that makes innovation withinlocal government very, very difficult.
And when that happens, then it kindof permeates into the community.
And we're supposed to be more orless a catalyst for innovation.
There's other models that could be used.
(23:01):
In some cases, you could say we'regoing to do it, put all our eggs
in the community in helping thecommunity and businesses innovate.
That's a different model.
Um, in terms of then keeping thelights on, I think there's some
groups of people not saying thatthey're excluded from the process,
but that you have to segment the work.
Whereas this is moredance floor day to day.
We've got to keep this up andrunning or this legacy tech
(23:22):
we're stuck with for a few years.
So somebody's got to be working on that.
It can't be focusing on the innovationpiece, at least not every day.
That's what they do on Fridayafternoon, or that's what they do,
etcetera, at a different point.
Or that's what they'regoing to do in a few years.
Or, um, there's folks that maybeperhaps they like tinkering, so asking
them to come up with transformationis never going to be something
(23:43):
that's right in their wheelhouse.
So I believe that it's best done by,uh, segmenting, but also ingraining it
operationally so that it can be tested.
And by operationally, I mean in thedepartments, um, out in the field, out
where folks are, um, as part of theirwork being innovative, whether it's
police officers, firefighters, or publicworks employees fixing infrastructure.
(24:05):
I think it has to be close to thework is the most important thing
is that it's close to the work.
And and there's there's a millioncurveballs that that that hit you because
you were in position um you know whenyou were just mentioning like first
responders just just now and um you werein position in 2020 and 2021 when Um,
there, there was the pandemic and, youknow, government didn't have the option.
(24:28):
Everybody was turning to governmentsand businesses said, okay, flip it.
We literally flipped a switch andhad 6000 employees, you know, work
from home from friday to monday.
And that's like, wedidn't have that option.
So, um, that innovation has to happen,you know, in spite of like these
curveballs that are coming at you.
What was it like during, duringthat period, you know, in terms of,
(24:50):
um, you know, how quickly You know,policy was changing just how you could
actually support your constituents.
Well, yeah, I mean, so insome ways it's very difficult.
Um, and it was for us because it's one ofthe few kind of emergencies that we didn't
have institutional knowledge on pandemic.
Um, certainly at one time in theprofession, but it's many, many years ago.
(25:12):
That's very, I mean, that's unusual.
Local government.
Usually there's somebody who's been aroundthat scene, some sort of freak event,
you know, so there's internal expertise.
We didn't have that.
So in some ways, thatmakes it very difficult.
Other ways, it makes it easyin the sense that a lot of
other stuff kind of melts away.
So you mentioned prioritization earlier.
To me, it's all about rightness.
(25:32):
There's a million things you can putin holding environments, which is the
challenge, but really, it's about itspsychological readiness and urgency
among the factions that determineswhat's the priority and what's urgent.
Um, and so during the pandemic, uh,it's a little, it was a little bit
wild, especially at first, but reallywhat it did is it broke through a
lot of the old conventions of how wethought we had to work or could work.
(25:55):
Um, it also folks that hadbeen working a certain way.
Um, it was, you know, even those folkshad to adjust a little bit to now their
colleagues working a different way,um, and resisting, I think, in our
case of trying to make sweeping changesor permanent changes until we had a
chance to kind of reflect on reallywhat does it mean for our long term
goals and vision and, most importantly,to not distract from the current
(26:18):
mission, which is serving the citizens.
We actually launchedour three on one center.
right before the pandemic hit.
I mean, we launched it and then wehad the first case in North Carolina.
Unfortunately, rating carry.
And, um, that was not somethingthat obviously is ideal, but you
had to flip it on its head that,you know, threaten an opportunity.
The same exact thing.
(26:39):
It's just how you look at it.
And so I also looked at it as we have avery unique opportunity that we can say
that we're the three and one that launchedduring the pandemic and things like remote
and other challenges are never going tobe a challenge for our 311 because Of
the nature in which we were launched.
So that's one example for me specifically.
Um, but it was challenging because theteams had to really look hard at learning
(27:03):
as best they could, how to developholding environments, which means you're
working on something, but it's not ripe.
Um, and you may have to wait some timebefore it's ripe, uh, to go forward.
In terms of like citizen engagementand transparency, you talked about,
you know, launching the threeone one, um, number during the.
During the pandemic.
(27:23):
But, you know, technology plays acrucial role in improving communication
between cities and their residents.
You know, in addition to that, um,you know, has there been anything
else that you've implementedand carried to enhance citizen
engagement and promote transparency?
Yeah, there's a variety of things.
Um, we have an interactivedevelopment map.
Um, and everything that we're doingis obviously it's evolutionary.
(27:45):
311 is never done.
We can continue to add on releases.
So a mobile app will be coming outshortly and that sort of thing.
In terms of transparency, tome, I think that's something
that we will continue to build.
And it's so important becauseit's not just about putting
things out there for the public.
It's actually about being able todemonstrate how decisions get made and
(28:06):
what are the inputs and the activitiesand the processes that are associated
with decisions and value choices.
We also are being thoughtful with howwe release things because when we do
that, it's going We are absolutely likeour mobile app bringing citizens fully
into our world and that's an adjustmentfor employees It's an adjustment to the
way that we work in a sense now thatthere's a little bit more of an instant
(28:28):
Communication possibility between us.
So doing that thoughtfully I think isa very very important thing Given the
timeless nature of local government.
It's it's not about getting it out thisquarter that quarter It's about getting
it out right and getting out in a waythat's gonna add value So, yeah, that's
something that's on our minds a lot A lot.
Transparency.
(28:49):
The one thing we, we ask almost everyonewho comes on the show is cyber security
and how, you know, like what, whatkeeps, what keeps you up at night.
So with the, with the increase in, in,in cyber attacks and, and with, you know,
AI's role in, in both, you know, um,fighting against and, you know, making
cyber attacks even more sophisticated,you know, what, what steps have you
(29:11):
guys taken to secure carries, you know,municipal systems against these threats?
Um, Yeah.
So I mean, I mean, I'mproud of our security team.
Um, like everyone, there's room to grow.
I wish we had, you know, I saymore of it, but by more of it, I
don't mean like more restrictive.
I mean, it was in the consciousof more people, including myself.
(29:33):
But, you know, we rely on expertise.
We have a lot in theregion and on our staff.
Um, you know, hiring good people is Ithink the number one thing you can do now.
It's all about peoplemore so than technology.
The technology comes secondwith the people, um, because
there's a variety of choices.
And so you gotta trustput trust into the people.
(29:54):
Um, What keeps me up at night inin a sense is is kind of what I
described earlier, that it's notsomething that we're all engaged in.
It's not as much of a team sport.
It's there's a select small number.
If you look at it, the scheme ofthe world that are engaged in it
that have an ability to accessinformation to move information
and the masses really have no idea.
(30:16):
And so as as technology evolvesand that kind of gets accepted,
or is accepted or isn't evolved.
If security isn't seen as somethingthat was has always been important to
cities that comes in many, many forms,that's a real danger, I believe, because
it's gonna impact citizens at a ratethat is often gonna be greater than
(30:38):
they can absorb, and they're gonna goto their local government for help.
Um, and that may not come in theform of Hey, I have a cyber issue.
It comes in some other form that, youknow, maybe, you know, they don't,
um, You know, want to share with us.
So to me, it's ingraining local governmentenough in the data infrastructure
to be able to create, um, platformsthat provide some sense of security,
(31:05):
certainty and is also realistic.
You know, the mail has beenbeing opened for many years.
You don't mean like those sorts of things.
That's that's surveillance in a sense.
Phones have been tappedfor a very, very long time.
And that did not have the samepsychological impact because although
it does have a psychological impact,doesn't the same because the uncertainties
(31:26):
are less in the information age.
These are exponential.
So as much as possible,this has to be a team sport.
And when that happens, then I'mconfident a lot of the innovation
that's happening in the cyber realmactually could be channeled for good.
I think a big part of it is thattransparency you were talking about
(31:49):
earlier as well, because I think fromespecially at the municipal level when
it comes to security, even physicalsecurity, let alone cyber security, I
think the sense of citizenry is like, Hey,somebody sitting is watching out for this.
Somebody's thinking about it, right?
So I think that transparency thatyou know, you have that those
(32:09):
competencies that you demonstrate.
All the time, you know, if thereis, um, an attack of some kind, we
have to, even if you just, nothing'scompromised, you just have to take
things offline, you know, to havethat, have the, the, the constituents
have confidence in what you've beendoing all along, it's got to be huge
because, you know, as you mitigate, youknow, your way through, um, whatever
(32:30):
cybersecurity issue you might face.
Yeah, it's, it's one of those things whereI think it's, it's, it's important to
keep it local because for us to evolve andthen learning grow, we're all network now.
So if we can share lessons, but gettingaway from a monoculture where we, we
all are using the same few vendors makesit a very easy attack surface versus
if there were ways to diversify thekind of culture of our infrastructure.
(32:54):
Um, and also I think thecitizens help with that.
The citizens, you know, use a varietyof different technology platforms.
There's a variety of differentones around the world.
and finding ways as much aspossible to safely plug into
each other, I think provides themost resilience for a community.
Um, and there's also some degreeof local, I believe, governance
(33:14):
or control around this issue.
Some can say they want a more secure area.
Some can say they're okay with alittle less secure security in a sense.
Um, we're in a space where we livein the world of public information.
Almost everything is availableto the public anyway.
So there are some domainswhere it's not the crown jewel.
Um, it really isn't.
Uh, and then others, it certainly is.
(33:35):
So, um, I think the role expands becauseof what I mentioned that citizens
being more and more in over their headsas they get inundated with changes
in society and uncertainties, localgovernment, as it has been forever, is
the level that they can reach and touchregardless of the former government.
And I love what you said, reach and touch.
(33:57):
You said that with the With the 3 11 line, you know, you actually expect
people to research and get back tothem with an answer, which I think
is fantastic, and I have not heardthat stated so clearly before, so
that's, uh, kudos to you guys on that.
Thank you.
(34:17):
Uh, looking ahead, um, so you, youwere saying when we, when we first
started talking that there's, youknow, your everyday tasks and then
there's, you know, there's always gotto be a small, at least a small group.
Um, looking ahead towards, uh, youknow, where the next innovation is
coming from, you know, what emergingtechnologies or trends do you believe
will shape the future of municipal I.
T.
(34:37):
You know, what's your vision forthe for the technological future
of carry and, and, and, andhow do you achieve that vision?
Yeah, I mean, well,that's a huge question.
So yeah, to keep myselfkind of channeled and.
Um, I'm gonna, you know, straddlebetween kind of the aspirational future
that I don't have a timetable on.
It's just where I see it goes and what thefoundation working on goes and then what
(34:59):
I see more in the short term and carry.
Um, so longer term, I see it as it evolvesinto something that is, um, uh, it's,
it's supporting the organization, butit's supporting the community and what
the community treasures, which goingforward will more and more be its data.
Um, and I believe operationallywhat you'll see is other
departments fire public works.
(35:19):
Um, and the like, building inspectors,police officers, uh, will be, um,
more and more technology peopleand will be, you know, engaged
in innovation in the, the field.
Um, I believe that there'll be a blendof what happens within a geography
in figuring out, uh, what, how toalign those values, um, and, and, you
(35:40):
know, meet the needs of the community.
But also then, now that we're tappedin, you know, globally, certainly
nationally and, and regionally.
Uh, there's opportunities to extendthat value or to maximize the value
with each area kind of being ableto leverage what they do best.
Um, I believe that local government isso unique in that area because around the
(36:01):
world we're 80 to 90 percent the same.
I mean, fire in pick yourfavorite country, fire
departments really are the same.
Um, standardization has done a great job.
Uh, police departments, same thing.
It's really at localgovernment, not that different.
The water plants, producing safedrinking water, treating sewage is
really the same around the world.
There's maybe different standards,but the idea is the same.
(36:23):
Um, building, building permits,there's international codes around
that, so it's really the same.
Something similar is going to happenin the technology domain, and I
believe it's best grounded locally.
It doesn't have to be just grounded there.
That's just one area that it isgrounded that allows people to
kind of, you know, re imagine thecollective, which fundamentally is.
what innovation is about.
(36:43):
It's about the collective coming together.
So I see that there's gonna be endlessopportunities for fire departments
and for, uh, city manager's offices,etcetera, to help orchestrate these
opportunities for local communityengagement that has more global impact.
Yeah, and based on what you said, Iwould not be surprised if that innovation
(37:04):
continues to be driven by Kerry and theNorth Carolina Research Triangle there.
So, um, I just want to thank you so muchfor joining us today, Dan, you know, for
listeners interested in hearing more,um, or would like to reach out to you
directly, which I suspect that there'sgoing to be some, some city managers here,
but what's the best place to find you?
I mean, you can find me onLinkedIn is a great way to find me.
(37:27):
Otherwise, uh, you know, feel free to,to, you know, shoot me an email at the
town of carry, you know, Dan dot alt atcarry NC dot gov is another great way.
Innovation Heroes isproudly produced by S.
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A leading global I.
T.
Solutions provider dedicated to makinglife simpler for business and I.
T.
Professionals for over 30 years.
(37:48):
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Whether you're navigatingthe cloud, strengthening
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To learn more, visit shi.
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(38:09):
com slash solve what's next to embrace thefuture with stress free scalable solutions
that you and your people will love.
Okay, Denise, we're back.
And I just want to dig into acouple of things that, um, that
Dan, um, really touched on.
Um, and I, I think one of themis, is really the strategies for
(38:30):
navigating the, the unique challengesof public sector procurement.
You know, we talked about it kind of atthe top of the show, but really managing
tight budgets and regulatory requirementsand, and the bidding process, um, you
know, what, what do you see in termsof, Um, you know, how, how do, how do
people who are really good at this typeof thing, like, like what characteristics
(38:51):
do they have or what, what best practiceshave, have you seen out there supporting
so many public sector customers?
Wow.
This is such a good question.
And I have been doing this fora long time, almost 30 years.
So I have seen a lot and it's evolving.
Um, one thing I just want to sayabout regulatory requirements is
I think even more so than fundingthat one can be the most challenging
(39:11):
because the They are constantlychanging and the customers don't
necessarily have any control over that.
They just get, Hey,here's a new requirement.
Now go and put this into place andwhatever costs that might accrue,
like figure out how to deal with it.
And so they're constantly havingto shift monies around to meet
these regulatory requirements.
(39:32):
Something that's Extraordinarily,I think, overlooked when you
think about the challenging rolethat is a CIO in a public entity.
So something really worth noting, um,how SHI might help or how a partner
might help is staying abreast of thoseregulatory requirements, making sure
that we really understand what thatmeans, how it will impact the customer.
(39:53):
So that we can come to that table fullyprepared for that discussion and with
really good opportunity for solutioningand things like that, instead of just
trying to learn it from the customerwhen we're sitting at the table.
So that that's a really important partof the partnership when you're doing
doing with dealing with public entities.
So I'll just say that.
I think for procurement itself.
(40:16):
I mean, most procure either by publicRFP or by cooperative contracts.
So.
Public RFPs can be extraordinarily timeconsuming and expensive, and often when
they get to the end of those, there is a,uh, a dispute or, you know, some type of,
uh, appeal that one of the responders willgo through that causes even more delay.
(40:40):
And so I think just being a reallygood responder to RFPs, putting
your best foot forward, making sureyou're addressing the questions.
Really knowing what what that customeris trying to accomplish going into that
cycle so you can be the best responderreally helps these public entities.
And that's what we're here to try todo is support them in their journey.
(41:01):
And so that can be a very quirkyprocess for them too, which is why I
think a lot of public entities steertowards cooperative contracting.
So just having those avenues for them toprocure what they need when they need it
in the easiest, most cost effective wayis really critical for these customers.
The last piece of that is funding.
(41:21):
And that is probably the most importantpart because finding the money or helping
the customers access grants and funding.
That is available to them isreally key in helping them get
these projects off the ground.
And so SHI, for example, has a whole team,a whole grants and funding team that helps
customers get reports that show them allof the complete opportunities that are
(41:45):
available from the federal government,state government, private funding sources,
so that they can then consider and go outand write grants or go and, um, actually,
you know, try to get those funding sourcesand we help them through that journey.
And so, That that's another piece tothat differentiates public public sector.
And Dan talked about a lot of that.
(42:05):
And you mentioned the amount of timethat you've been been working in the
public sector, you know, 30 years.
And, um, you know, in terms of cybersecurity, like, how is what are there?
Are there unique things that publicsector, um, you know, I T managers
and procurement leaders, you know,need to need to consider from from a
cyber perspective, or or how is it?
How has it evolved over the timethat you've been supporting it?
(42:29):
You know, I, I think there'salways uniqueness to public sector.
But again, foundationally, whatthey're trying to do is the same.
They're trying to protect our data.
They're trying to protect our security,our, their constituents, you and I.
Um, and so I just think there's thiselevated set and with taxpayer money.
(42:49):
And I think there's this elevatedsense of responsibility around that.
Um, they, they can't get it wrong.
And if they do, Someone isgoing to be removed from office.
Somebody is going to be notvoted in again next year.
And so that, that, that might be thebiggest differentiator, but again,
foundationally, they're tryingto protect our lives, our data.
(43:11):
Um, so it is different, butit's also very much the same.
It's, it's just, it's justsuch the big hot button topic.
I will just say this.
I do think that public entities in many.
Situations are getting much more in termsof sophisticated attacks, the number
of attacks that they get because theyhold so much personal information about
(43:36):
each of us in their, in their databases.
So the volume, the volumeis massive of these attacks.
I'm just so in awe of our civil servantsbecause like the job that Dan has, I
mean, it's not enough time to actuallytalk about like how hard his job is.
And I'm in awe every day of thesepeople that I work with and how they
(43:59):
get things done for us, you know?
So it's just, I love that you'rehighlighting, uh, local government CIOs.
Thank you for that.
And I think, you know, now thatwe're running out of time, I
think you just, uh, came up, gaveus a topic for a future episode.
So I always appreciate that.
So as, as we wrap up today, it'sclear that the role of the municipal
CIO is more crucial than ever innavigating the complexities of digital
(44:21):
transformation at the city level.
Dan Alt's work in Cary, NorthCarolina exemplifies how
technology can be harnessed.
To not only improve services, but tofundamentally reshape the way cities
operate and interact with their residents.
I want to thank Dan Ault for sharing hisvaluable insights and expertise, and I'm
so grateful to my dear friend and co hostDenise Collison for joining me today.
(44:43):
We hope this episode has inspired you tothink about the potential of technology
in your own community and the pivotalrole CIOs play in driving that change.
Until next time, keep innovating.
Given the timeless nature of localgovernment, it's it's not about getting
it out this quarter that quarter.
It's about getting it outright and getting out in a
way that's going to add value.
Um, so yeah, that's somethingthat's on our minds a lot.
A lot.
Transparency
in the world of technology.
Heroes are everywhere.
They're overcoming disruption, deliveringsustainable outcomes and fearlessly
(00:23):
forging the future to solve what's next.
Join me Ed McNamara, as we meet thepeople and businesses driving change
in our constantly disruptive world.
This is innovation heroes, apodcast brought to you by SHI.
Today I'm joined by DeniseCollison, the senior vice president
of public sector here at SHI.
(00:45):
Denise and a few hundred of herclosest friends in our public sector
sector play a pivotal role in shapingstrategies that determine how to best
support SHI's federal state and localgovernment customers, as well as those
in K through 12 higher education.
and public health schoolsand organizations.
Her leadership ensures thatthe public sector team stays
(01:05):
focused on its mission to deliverimpactful solutions and services.
Denise, welcome to the show.
Thanks, Ed.
So happy to be here today.
Thank you.
In this episode, we'll explorethe evolving responsibilities
of municipal CIOs.
The challenges they face andthe innovative solutions they're
implementing to meet and serve theircommunities in the digital age.
(01:26):
A little later, we're going to hearfrom Dan Ault, assistant town manager
and chief innovation officer forthe town of Cary, North Carolina.
But for now, let's hear a little bitabout you and your role here at SHI.
Yeah, absolutely.
So you kind of mentioned it a little bit.
I have 750 people on my team.
All of those people are focusedon helping public sector entities.
(01:49):
meet their digital transformation goals.
So we aim to be a true partner inthat journey, which, as we will talk
about today, can be complicated,um, fraught with roadblocks
and things that are unexpected.
But our job is to support our clientsthrough all of that and get to the end,
which is really impactful for all of usbecause every one of us is a constituent.
(02:13):
Every one of us is a receiver of servicesthat we are helping to implement.
So it's really meaningfulwork that we're doing here.
Um, and the kind of the cocktail partyconversation, I'm sure that, you know,
what you do in the public sector has,um, you know, it differs slightly
from some of the things that thatdelivers the public sector customers
versus, um, commercial organizations.
(02:35):
I'm sure you get that question allthe time, but what are some of the big
differences in terms of what does forpublic sector customers versus commercial?
Or what are some of the added thingsthat are necessary for us to do?
That's a great question.
You know, I think foundationallythe technology is the same, but how
the customers need to use it, howthey need to implement it and how
(02:55):
they actually have to go procure it.
And the things leading up to thatprocurement are wildly different.
And so that's kind of where we focus andwe'll, we'll talk about it, I think in
a little bit, but things like fundingsources, things like, um, really specific,
proof of deliveries and proof of conceptsto make sure these projects don't fail
(03:16):
because there's not a dime to waste.
Um, grants, all those types of thingscome into play in the public sector,
contract vehicles that may or may not comeinto play outside of the public sector.
So that's what really makes it different.
And a lot of patience, a lot ofpatience for our civil servants.
When they talk to musiciansor songwriters, right?
(03:37):
They say, what comes first,the music or the words?
What comes first in public sector?
I suspect it's one or theother, but what comes first?
The, the availability of funding?
The identification of a need?
The identification of a technology?
Or yes, all of the above?
It's a little yes, all of theabove, but I'm going to actually
go in a different direction.
I think, Once there's tons ofideas, there's no shortage of ideas.
(04:00):
It's prioritization is actuallythe thing that has to come first
is figuring out where to start.
What's the most important thingfor that local municipality,
that school, that hospital.
And then from there it'sokay now parallel motions.
I think, how are we goingto fund this project?
And also what does this project need tolook like and how do we future proof it?
(04:23):
That actually is the biggest part of theconversation because They don't have, like
I said, money to waste, so we can't getto the end of the solution, which can take
a year, four years, five years, dependingon what we're talking about, and then
have to turn around and do it all again.
So, I think that prioritization is key,and that really has to come first, and we
can help the customers with that as well.
(04:44):
We do a lot of, you know, art of thepossible, you know, here's where you are
in all facets of your journey, here'swhere we should start, this is why it
makes sense, and then we go from there.
So in terms of prioritization being thekey, um, what are the, let's take that
as, as, as the first, as the first,obviously, I mean, it's prioritization.
So it has to be first, right?
(05:05):
But what are, what are two or three otherkey challenges CIOs face when it comes to,
um, you know, just evolving and technicaltransformation at the municipal level?
This is such a hard question.
We're going to hear Dan talk about thisa little too, I think, in a little while.
Um, but there's just so many.
It's hard to narrow down totwo or three, so I'm going to
just quickly go through a few.
There's a couple that are linked.
(05:26):
First of all, a lot of localmunicipalities are very siloed
organizations, so getting thatcollaboration cross department, cross
organization can be very challenging.
In addition, within those organizations,there's competing priorities.
And so, you have to have extraskill at bringing people on board,
organizational change, um, all ofthose types of conversations, even
(05:48):
to just get an idea off the ground.
Um, so that's like, that to me is thefirst one, and probably the biggest CIOs.
Then you have to look at skills gaps.
There's a lot of, you know, Legacy systemswith a lot of people who know how to
use those legacy systems really well.
But then when it comes to moderntechnology, there's a lack of skill and
(06:10):
we are competing to hire people with thoseskills into local government alongside
corporations who can pay a whole lot more.
Um, so that's definitely an issue as well.
And then I think just when you lookat the technology, cyber sticks out.
I mean, cyber is a challenge for everybodyright now, but as you transform, as you.
(06:30):
Um, so when you think about new ways touse your data, it is really challenging to
keep people safe, to keep our data safe.
And so that's an additional challenge.
The last one I want to quickly mentionis, When you're talking about local
government, you're talking about havingto get constituent buy in as well.
And so getting out into the community andgetting those people on board and excited
(06:51):
and, and really bought in and how thosetaxpayer dollars are going to be spent
and how it's going to make their livesbetter is an additional challenge that's
really unique to, uh, local government.
Got it.
Okay.
When we think about chiefinformation officers, our minds
often go to the private sector.
Okay.
Big corporations, cuttingedge tech firms and startups.
(07:13):
But what about the CIOs whoare quietly driving innovation
within our own local governments?
How often do we consider therole of CIO in making our city
smarter, safer, and more connected?
Today we're pulling back the curtainon the vital role of the municipal CIO.
Our guest Dan Ault serves as the assistanttown manager and chief innovation officer
for the town of Cary, North Carolina.
(07:35):
Where he's been pioneering digitaltransformation efforts that are setting
new standards in city management.
From improving citizen engagementto securing critical infrastructure,
Dan's work exemplifies the intersectionof technology and public service.
For those of you watching this andnoticed a different background,
this conversation took place rightbefore we completed our new studio.
(07:56):
Hopefully those of you listeningnoticed no change at all.
But this episode is packed with keyinsights, so let's jump in and afterwards
Denise and I will share our thoughtson managing digital transformation.
Within local government.
Dan, welcome to theinnovation heroes podcast.
Thank you so much, Ed.
So I was intrigued to learn that youalways knew you wanted to be a city
(08:18):
manager from the time you were just a kid,um, out of all the things a little kid
dreams of becoming, what is it about citymanagement that appealed to you so much?
Well, I think it started atas initially just an entrance,
uh, interest in government andmaybe geography, um, to start.
And as I grew a little bit olderand got to about age seven, and
(08:40):
I think I started Little Leagueor whatever it was, Minor League.
Uh, I was checking out the stats and,and in the little newspaper I grew up in
a small town called Howard, Wisconsin.
Um, we had just hired our firstvillage administrator, which is
the equivalent of a city manager.
And that was, it spoketo me even that young.
I asked my parents straightaway, I'm like, who is this?
This is really what Iwant to do in government.
(09:00):
Like, he seems to be, youknow, Um, a part of everything.
So right then and there it was kindof just always in the back of my
mind as something that I aspired for.
Um, quietly for most of my childhood.
But just, yeah, from that point, I knew
I think you, um, you went to school forpoli sci, not necessarily for technology.
Is that right?
(09:20):
Yeah.
Yeah, that that's that's accurate.
Um, so I went to school and, um, atfirst it was just kind of general
political science work, summer ingovernment and then Uh, with the help
of some advisors, they brought meback to my roots and, uh, encouraged
me to pursue public administration,um, specifically and city management.
(09:41):
So, over the last decade, howhas the role of the CIO in
municipal government evolved?
Uh, especially in terms of balancingtraditional IT responsibilities
with the push for innovation.
So, you've got your everyday IT, butthen you've got innovate, um, especially
where, where, you know, Where you'rewhere you're the chief innovation officer.
(10:01):
We'll get back to that.
But how is it evolvingover the last decade?
It's I mean, it's been exponential.
Um, I think about a decade ago, therewas a lot of talk about whether it's
the chief marketing officer or thechief information officer that's
going to play the bigger role.
Um, certainly both have evolvedinto large roles in cities.
It's more along the lines of chiefinformation officers and chief
(10:22):
technology officers who have beenin it since, you know, the nineties
is really where it came into play.
But within municipalities, particularly,we've kind of always been the
laggards a little bit, uh, in termsof new technologies, uh, and that's
been, you know, for, for decades.
Um, and so in the last decade,what's really changed is
it's, it's starting to spread.
(10:42):
What used to be kind of just, uh, uh,it's, it's own silo is now very much
diffused because of what's happened inthe consumer technology world and what
people expect in their everyday lives.
So the pressure is to keep legacysystems going because there
maybe hasn't been innovation in.
Every space that's necessary to developthe infrastructure that is, is going
(11:03):
to be necessary to operate a high techsociety in the information age isn't
quite there, so you have to, on onehand, continue to maintain stuff or to
provide services every day and at thesame time, try to find ways where you
safely can introduce new technologiesand do so where you have, in some
cases, people that are very advanced intechnological expertise in other areas
(11:27):
where they may be, you know, are lackingand don't have the desire to advance.
So it's, it's really, uh, a paradigm that,um, almost on a daily, weekly basis, I.
T.
Departments are facing just a myriad ofdifferent types of challenges in cities.
So in terms of exactly where carryNorth Carolina is located, Um, it
(11:49):
feels like your constituents are agroup that can be very IT savvy in
comparison to some other places.
I mean, just for background, um, we'retalking really that research triangle
of Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Cary.
There's three research universitiesthere with University of North
Carolina, NC State, Duke.
(12:10):
you know, that whole researchtriangle is really a 1950s
concept that never ran out of gas.
It's, it's, it's, if anything, it'sprobably going even, even faster.
So like, when you, when you think aboutthe people that you serve, like, is
it actually in your mind, like, well,we have to innovate because these
guys are literally at the cutting edgeof, you know, pretty much everything.
(12:31):
Absolutely.
I mean, it's absolutely true.
I couldn't have said it any better.
Um, the research triangle regionthat we're in, the universities.
Uh, the research firms, thebiosciences, the SAS, and so on and
so forth, the places that reallykind of put this place on a map.
I think they're bringing so manytimeless elements, education, research,
(12:52):
um, and with that, our citizenryis very advanced in these topics.
Um, they have high expectations.
We have a unique phenomena currently.
It may change over time, but uh,demographically, a lot of folks,
you know, came from somewhereelse, whether they were immigrants
or from within the United States.
But it's very common in Cary thatpeople came from somewhere else and
they did so intentionally because theycould, because they had an opportunity.
(13:16):
So that very much lends itselfto a citizenry that has high
and realistic expectations.
So those are in today's worlda very unique combination.
I refer to it sometimes as a endangeredecosystem of democracy with our citizenry.
So to me, yeah, I saw it as a way thatcould help push me to be the best version
(13:36):
of Of myself as I could be and alsoas an opportunity to continue to learn
and, um, and continue to push change.
Because if it can be done here,I feel like it has an opportunity
to be done elsewhere as well.
And, and you, you relocated toto carry to take this position,
if I'm not mistaken, right?
(13:57):
Was that, did that make itthat much more exciting?
I'd say, okay.
Like I'm not the only person that'sthat's transitioning here and number
one and number two, I'm going to getthe opportunity to innovate here.
Absolutely.
Um, that was a leading factor for me.
I previously, um, was fortunateenough to work and go to graduate
school in the state of Illinois.
And I'm from Wisconsin originallyand also worked there in a county.
(14:18):
Um, so slowly been making my waysouth, but the region's appeal
with, with the research triangle wasdefinitely a leading factor for me.
It stood out and I'm like, this is.
A unique op opportunity on topof a unique opportunity, on
top of a unique opportunity.
And that's something thatdoesn't just come along any day.
So, um, I, I was just fortunate tohave that and, and to, you know,
it's something I think about a lot.
(14:40):
Um, other factors are thestate of North Carolina.
It's a beautiful state.
Um, I, I love the latitude rat.
I love the, the landscape of the coastto the mountains, to the, you know,
the Piedmont, um, beautiful pine trees.
So there's a lot of things that are, youknow, going in this neck of the woods.
So all those thingstogether really made it, um.
You know, an easy decision in that sense.
But given my profession, thecitizenry and the research right
(15:03):
was a really strong factor.
Yeah, I'm in central New Jersey right now,and I can tell you that I know at least 10
or or 12, you know, different people whoare, who are relocated to North Carolina.
And, uh, believe me, I, I get the, the,the text in the, in the middle of January,
you know, with the pictures outside.
It's like you guys don't have to rub itin, believe me, . But, so from a, from a
(15:26):
digital transformation, um, perspective,we hear a lot of buzz about smart cities.
Um.
Can you share some specific examplesof digital initiatives that have been
successfully implemented in Cary?
What kind of initiatives havehelped improve municipal services?
Yeah, so, I mean, we have, Imean, a number of initiatives.
(15:47):
In fact, I was on a call earlier today.
The different number of projects we have,it's in the hundreds and the thousands.
So, there's a variety of them.
We've done a lot of work earlyin my time with the town, IT
and several other departmentspartnered on sensors for stormwater.
I believe that the success ofthose is only going to continue
to appreciate with time.
(16:08):
Um, the smart cities conceptfor me just personally is more
of a marketing kind of thing.
I think cities have been smart forever.
It's just the vehicle, the rivercivilizations I often go to.
Those were the original smart cities.
Um, so to me, I think it's less abouttrying to capture the buzz of something
versus just really being intentional aboutthe movements that a municipality makes.
(16:30):
Thinking of it that wayis a little bit different.
So, um, the biggest one, and I'msure I'll talk about it later too, is
our 3 in 1 initiative, which is, youknow, more than just a contact center.
It's the vehicle to, um, youknow, with intent and with
thoughtfulness, incorporate thingsthat people often call smart cities.
Um, into a cohesive infrastructure, andthe way that you do that is, is by, um,
(16:53):
looking at the different entry points,9 1 So, um, there's a variety there with
things, again, related to sensors inparticular that we've had success with.
There's other things that we're doing,whether it's with drones, um, and a
variety of things that are also thingsthat could fall under the smart cities,
um, you know, umbrella, cameras, certainlyother things they're starting to look
at, but not, haven't done too much yet.
(17:16):
And then the old one that wasthere way before carry was
advanced in so many areas.
Our traffic center was wayahead of its time again.
It predates the idea of a smartcity as a marketing kind of thing.
But, uh, the intelligent traffic centeris one of the things I'm most proud of,
and we're continuing to now modernizethat and also become an even bigger
regional partner managing infrastructurefor surrounding municipalities.
(17:39):
And we also do that in utilities as well.
So, um, those are some of the, theones that, They aren't brand new, but
they're, we're continuing to improveupon what was way ahead of its time.
Um, you know, kind of a quote,smart cities initiative.
So, those are some of the mostsuccessful ones that come to mind.
How important is it?
I mean, we're just cities.
We're really just talking about, youknow, imaginary lines and drawn in the,
(18:03):
in the earth, you know, but you gotRaleigh, Durham, you got Chapel Hill,
you got Cary, like they're all kind ofexist, you know, right around one another.
And I'm sure there's, there's somemunicipalities that the smaller
municipalities that are missing thereand you're all within the state.
of North Carolina and there'sdifferent jurisdictions.
I mean, how, how important is it?
Like, like you could say from a utopianpoint of view, well, I'm just going to
(18:24):
worry about what I, what's within mycontrol, but like, you have to be, there
must be partnership with the surroundingareas in at least the state, right?
How important is that?
Well, I think it's it'salways been important.
Um, and it continues to beimportant because you're right.
The political boundaries matter.
And certainly I'd never forget, youknow, who's signing my paycheck.
There's no doubt about that.
So there's, uh, there's a very much abias that's up front there without a
(18:48):
doubt that that I'm pulling for Cary
however, it's just my opinionand also my experiences.
There's less regional competition.
There's some still.
It's more national and internationalnow that we're competing.
So our success is their success.
We all can bring somethinga little different.
Um, where we, we do competeon the edges, no question.
(19:09):
And I think that's healthybecause it makes us all better.
Uh, but not to the point whereit's counterproductive is,
is always kind of the idea.
In the state of North Carolina, ithelps make that, um, more competitive.
know, happen more often than not,maybe more so than in other states.
Um, I don't know for sure,but that's just my opinion.
Um, and so, yeah, in carry, weare fortunate to be in the middle
of that triangle geographically.
(19:31):
So we are immediately adjacentto Raleigh and Durham.
Um, and we're in three counties,Durham County, Wake County is their
primary one in Chatham County as well.
Um, to our West.
So it's a little bit of urban, suburbanand rural also kind of adjacent to us.
Um, but being right in the middleof the research triangle, we have
an ability to partner with manymunicipalities in the region.
(19:53):
Um, and we also are positioned well aspeople move through the region and not
to mention the region, but the state.
And we're also the midwaypoint of the East Coast.
So we're kind of, I like tojoke that we're the center
of the center of the center.
Um, and from that position geographically.
Uh, there's, I mean,opportunities if we, um, so choose
(20:15):
when you're saying about thecompetition on the national
and the international level.
Um, you know, there are, there arepeople out there that are pitching
businesses to come to North Carolina.
Like, have you, have you ever likestopped and heard somebody pitching North
Carolina and be like, I worked on thatproject and that's going to be attractive
to somebody like possibly considering,uh, you know, moving a business here.
(20:36):
Yeah.
I mean, certainly in my timehere, there's been some, uh, big
pushes, uh, that we've been partof and then some, uh, smaller ones.
And frankly, it's kindof a backwards world.
There's been some that, you know, intoday's, you know, currently today
we, we are known as a desirable place.
So in some cases it.
Places come without us even trying,which is a little bit was unusual
(20:57):
to my previous experiences, but ithelps you kind of understand what
your competitive advantages are.
It helps you understand whereyou maybe need to grow or where
you have some blind spots thatyou need to improve as a region.
Um, we're going very much from beinglike a big little city region to now, you
know, kind of a little big city region.
(21:17):
So it's kind of a transitionin terms of, you know,
Metropolitan areas in that sense.
So those processes are something athat is very rewarding to be able to
compete internationally and nationally.
Um, and then also to be successful inso many areas as the region has been.
Um, you know, we always wanted and carry.
But sometimes, frankly, we knowin the region, um, it's better
(21:37):
somewhere else, like an R.
T.
P.
Or something like that.
So
Yeah, I would imagine just having,you know, um, like public sector.
I.
T.
As you cited as a competitive advantagethat that has got to be, you know,
extremely satisfying, um, public sector.
I.
T.
Departments face unique challenges.
There's budget constraints.
There's public scrutiny.
(21:58):
You know, how do you prioritizeprojects and manage these challenges
while still driving innovation?
Well, so I think there'sa couple of things.
I think one of the ways is ifyou're serious about innovation,
which is something formunicipalities to consider because.
It's a relatively new concept tothink of innovation so positively,
especially in government.
Traditionally, it wouldhave been seen as a threat.
(22:18):
Um, it's important toremember those pieces.
I believe that if you're going tosystematically and systemically ingrain
innovation, it's best done, uh, bothingrained in the operations and segmented.
So you have to have some at leastsmall group that's kind of dedicated
every day to systematically ingraininginnovation through, uh, both.
(22:40):
A standardized mechanized process.
Otherwise, the weight and the gravityof our work each day will create an
environment that makes innovation withinlocal government very, very difficult.
And when that happens, then it kindof permeates into the community.
And we're supposed to be more orless a catalyst for innovation.
There's other models that could be used.
(23:01):
In some cases, you could say we'regoing to do it, put all our eggs
in the community in helping thecommunity and businesses innovate.
That's a different model.
Um, in terms of then keeping thelights on, I think there's some
groups of people not saying thatthey're excluded from the process,
but that you have to segment the work.
Whereas this is moredance floor day to day.
We've got to keep this up andrunning or this legacy tech
(23:22):
we're stuck with for a few years.
So somebody's got to be working on that.
It can't be focusing on the innovationpiece, at least not every day.
That's what they do on Fridayafternoon, or that's what they do,
etcetera, at a different point.
Or that's what they'regoing to do in a few years.
Or, um, there's folks that maybeperhaps they like tinkering, so asking
them to come up with transformationis never going to be something
(23:43):
that's right in their wheelhouse.
So I believe that it's best done by,uh, segmenting, but also ingraining it
operationally so that it can be tested.
And by operationally, I mean in thedepartments, um, out in the field, out
where folks are, um, as part of theirwork being innovative, whether it's
police officers, firefighters, or publicworks employees fixing infrastructure.
(24:05):
I think it has to be close to thework is the most important thing
is that it's close to the work.
And and there's there's a millioncurveballs that that that hit you because
you were in position um you know whenyou were just mentioning like first
responders just just now and um you werein position in 2020 and 2021 when Um,
there, there was the pandemic and, youknow, government didn't have the option.
(24:28):
Everybody was turning to governmentsand businesses said, okay, flip it.
We literally flipped a switch andhad 6000 employees, you know, work
from home from friday to monday.
And that's like, wedidn't have that option.
So, um, that innovation has to happen,you know, in spite of like these
curveballs that are coming at you.
What was it like during, duringthat period, you know, in terms of,
(24:50):
um, you know, how quickly You know,policy was changing just how you could
actually support your constituents.
Well, yeah, I mean, so insome ways it's very difficult.
Um, and it was for us because it's one ofthe few kind of emergencies that we didn't
have institutional knowledge on pandemic.
Um, certainly at one time in theprofession, but it's many, many years ago.
(25:12):
That's very, I mean, that's unusual.
Local government.
Usually there's somebody who's been aroundthat scene, some sort of freak event,
you know, so there's internal expertise.
We didn't have that.
So in some ways, thatmakes it very difficult.
Other ways, it makes it easyin the sense that a lot of
other stuff kind of melts away.
So you mentioned prioritization earlier.
To me, it's all about rightness.
(25:32):
There's a million things you can putin holding environments, which is the
challenge, but really, it's about itspsychological readiness and urgency
among the factions that determineswhat's the priority and what's urgent.
Um, and so during the pandemic, uh,it's a little, it was a little bit
wild, especially at first, but reallywhat it did is it broke through a
lot of the old conventions of how wethought we had to work or could work.
(25:55):
Um, it also folks that hadbeen working a certain way.
Um, it was, you know, even those folkshad to adjust a little bit to now their
colleagues working a different way,um, and resisting, I think, in our
case of trying to make sweeping changesor permanent changes until we had a
chance to kind of reflect on reallywhat does it mean for our long term
goals and vision and, most importantly,to not distract from the current
(26:18):
mission, which is serving the citizens.
We actually launchedour three on one center.
right before the pandemic hit.
I mean, we launched it and then wehad the first case in North Carolina.
Unfortunately, rating carry.
And, um, that was not somethingthat obviously is ideal, but you
had to flip it on its head that,you know, threaten an opportunity.
The same exact thing.
(26:39):
It's just how you look at it.
And so I also looked at it as we have avery unique opportunity that we can say
that we're the three and one that launchedduring the pandemic and things like remote
and other challenges are never going tobe a challenge for our 311 because Of
the nature in which we were launched.
So that's one example for me specifically.
Um, but it was challenging because theteams had to really look hard at learning
(27:03):
as best they could, how to developholding environments, which means you're
working on something, but it's not ripe.
Um, and you may have to wait some timebefore it's ripe, uh, to go forward.
In terms of like citizen engagementand transparency, you talked about,
you know, launching the threeone one, um, number during the.
During the pandemic.
(27:23):
But, you know, technology plays acrucial role in improving communication
between cities and their residents.
You know, in addition to that, um,you know, has there been anything
else that you've implementedand carried to enhance citizen
engagement and promote transparency?
Yeah, there's a variety of things.
Um, we have an interactivedevelopment map.
Um, and everything that we're doingis obviously it's evolutionary.
(27:45):
311 is never done.
We can continue to add on releases.
So a mobile app will be coming outshortly and that sort of thing.
In terms of transparency, tome, I think that's something
that we will continue to build.
And it's so important becauseit's not just about putting
things out there for the public.
It's actually about being able todemonstrate how decisions get made and
(28:06):
what are the inputs and the activitiesand the processes that are associated
with decisions and value choices.
We also are being thoughtful with howwe release things because when we do
that, it's going We are absolutely likeour mobile app bringing citizens fully
into our world and that's an adjustmentfor employees It's an adjustment to the
way that we work in a sense now thatthere's a little bit more of an instant
(28:28):
Communication possibility between us.
So doing that thoughtfully I think isa very very important thing Given the
timeless nature of local government.
It's it's not about getting it out thisquarter that quarter It's about getting
it out right and getting out in a waythat's gonna add value So, yeah, that's
something that's on our minds a lot A lot.
Transparency.
(28:49):
The one thing we, we ask almost everyonewho comes on the show is cyber security
and how, you know, like what, whatkeeps, what keeps you up at night.
So with the, with the increase in, in,in cyber attacks and, and with, you know,
AI's role in, in both, you know, um,fighting against and, you know, making
cyber attacks even more sophisticated,you know, what, what steps have you
(29:11):
guys taken to secure carries, you know,municipal systems against these threats?
Um, Yeah.
So I mean, I mean, I'mproud of our security team.
Um, like everyone, there's room to grow.
I wish we had, you know, I saymore of it, but by more of it, I
don't mean like more restrictive.
I mean, it was in the consciousof more people, including myself.
(29:33):
But, you know, we rely on expertise.
We have a lot in theregion and on our staff.
Um, you know, hiring good people is Ithink the number one thing you can do now.
It's all about peoplemore so than technology.
The technology comes secondwith the people, um, because
there's a variety of choices.
And so you gotta trustput trust into the people.
(29:54):
Um, What keeps me up at night inin a sense is is kind of what I
described earlier, that it's notsomething that we're all engaged in.
It's not as much of a team sport.
It's there's a select small number.
If you look at it, the scheme ofthe world that are engaged in it
that have an ability to accessinformation to move information
and the masses really have no idea.
(30:16):
And so as as technology evolvesand that kind of gets accepted,
or is accepted or isn't evolved.
If security isn't seen as somethingthat was has always been important to
cities that comes in many, many forms,that's a real danger, I believe, because
it's gonna impact citizens at a ratethat is often gonna be greater than
(30:38):
they can absorb, and they're gonna goto their local government for help.
Um, and that may not come in theform of Hey, I have a cyber issue.
It comes in some other form that, youknow, maybe, you know, they don't,
um, You know, want to share with us.
So to me, it's ingraining local governmentenough in the data infrastructure
to be able to create, um, platformsthat provide some sense of security,
(31:05):
certainty and is also realistic.
You know, the mail has beenbeing opened for many years.
You don't mean like those sorts of things.
That's that's surveillance in a sense.
Phones have been tappedfor a very, very long time.
And that did not have the samepsychological impact because although
it does have a psychological impact,doesn't the same because the uncertainties
(31:26):
are less in the information age.
These are exponential.
So as much as possible,this has to be a team sport.
And when that happens, then I'mconfident a lot of the innovation
that's happening in the cyber realmactually could be channeled for good.
I think a big part of it is thattransparency you were talking about
(31:49):
earlier as well, because I think fromespecially at the municipal level when
it comes to security, even physicalsecurity, let alone cyber security, I
think the sense of citizenry is like, Hey,somebody sitting is watching out for this.
Somebody's thinking about it, right?
So I think that transparency thatyou know, you have that those
(32:09):
competencies that you demonstrate.
All the time, you know, if thereis, um, an attack of some kind, we
have to, even if you just, nothing'scompromised, you just have to take
things offline, you know, to havethat, have the, the, the constituents
have confidence in what you've beendoing all along, it's got to be huge
because, you know, as you mitigate, youknow, your way through, um, whatever
(32:30):
cybersecurity issue you might face.
Yeah, it's, it's one of those things whereI think it's, it's, it's important to
keep it local because for us to evolve andthen learning grow, we're all network now.
So if we can share lessons, but gettingaway from a monoculture where we, we
all are using the same few vendors makesit a very easy attack surface versus
if there were ways to diversify thekind of culture of our infrastructure.
(32:54):
Um, and also I think thecitizens help with that.
The citizens, you know, use a varietyof different technology platforms.
There's a variety of differentones around the world.
and finding ways as much aspossible to safely plug into
each other, I think provides themost resilience for a community.
Um, and there's also some degreeof local, I believe, governance
(33:14):
or control around this issue.
Some can say they want a more secure area.
Some can say they're okay with alittle less secure security in a sense.
Um, we're in a space where we livein the world of public information.
Almost everything is availableto the public anyway.
So there are some domainswhere it's not the crown jewel.
Um, it really isn't.
Uh, and then others, it certainly is.
(33:35):
So, um, I think the role expands becauseof what I mentioned that citizens
being more and more in over their headsas they get inundated with changes
in society and uncertainties, localgovernment, as it has been forever, is
the level that they can reach and touchregardless of the former government.
And I love what you said, reach and touch.
(33:57):
You said that with the With the 3 11 line, you know, you actually expect
people to research and get back tothem with an answer, which I think
is fantastic, and I have not heardthat stated so clearly before, so
that's, uh, kudos to you guys on that.
Thank you.
(34:17):
Uh, looking ahead, um, so you, youwere saying when we, when we first
started talking that there's, youknow, your everyday tasks and then
there's, you know, there's always gotto be a small, at least a small group.
Um, looking ahead towards, uh, youknow, where the next innovation is
coming from, you know, what emergingtechnologies or trends do you believe
will shape the future of municipal I.
T.
(34:37):
You know, what's your vision forthe for the technological future
of carry and, and, and, andhow do you achieve that vision?
Yeah, I mean, well,that's a huge question.
So yeah, to keep myselfkind of channeled and.
Um, I'm gonna, you know, straddlebetween kind of the aspirational future
that I don't have a timetable on.
It's just where I see it goes and what thefoundation working on goes and then what
(34:59):
I see more in the short term and carry.
Um, so longer term, I see it as it evolvesinto something that is, um, uh, it's,
it's supporting the organization, butit's supporting the community and what
the community treasures, which goingforward will more and more be its data.
Um, and I believe operationallywhat you'll see is other
departments fire public works.
(35:19):
Um, and the like, building inspectors,police officers, uh, will be, um,
more and more technology peopleand will be, you know, engaged
in innovation in the, the field.
Um, I believe that there'll be a blendof what happens within a geography
in figuring out, uh, what, how toalign those values, um, and, and, you
(35:40):
know, meet the needs of the community.
But also then, now that we're tappedin, you know, globally, certainly
nationally and, and regionally.
Uh, there's opportunities to extendthat value or to maximize the value
with each area kind of being ableto leverage what they do best.
Um, I believe that local government isso unique in that area because around the
(36:01):
world we're 80 to 90 percent the same.
I mean, fire in pick yourfavorite country, fire
departments really are the same.
Um, standardization has done a great job.
Uh, police departments, same thing.
It's really at localgovernment, not that different.
The water plants, producing safedrinking water, treating sewage is
really the same around the world.
There's maybe different standards,but the idea is the same.
(36:23):
Um, building, building permits,there's international codes around
that, so it's really the same.
Something similar is going to happenin the technology domain, and I
believe it's best grounded locally.
It doesn't have to be just grounded there.
That's just one area that it isgrounded that allows people to
kind of, you know, re imagine thecollective, which fundamentally is.
what innovation is about.
(36:43):
It's about the collective coming together.
So I see that there's gonna be endlessopportunities for fire departments
and for, uh, city manager's offices,etcetera, to help orchestrate these
opportunities for local communityengagement that has more global impact.
Yeah, and based on what you said, Iwould not be surprised if that innovation
(37:04):
continues to be driven by Kerry and theNorth Carolina Research Triangle there.
So, um, I just want to thank you so muchfor joining us today, Dan, you know, for
listeners interested in hearing more,um, or would like to reach out to you
directly, which I suspect that there'sgoing to be some, some city managers here,
but what's the best place to find you?
I mean, you can find me onLinkedIn is a great way to find me.
(37:27):
Otherwise, uh, you know, feel free to,to, you know, shoot me an email at the
town of carry, you know, Dan dot alt atcarry NC dot gov is another great way.
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(37:48):
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(38:09):
com slash solve what's next to embrace thefuture with stress free scalable solutions
that you and your people will love.
Okay, Denise, we're back.
And I just want to dig into acouple of things that, um, that
Dan, um, really touched on.
Um, and I, I think one of themis, is really the strategies for
(38:30):
navigating the, the unique challengesof public sector procurement.
You know, we talked about it kind of atthe top of the show, but really managing
tight budgets and regulatory requirementsand, and the bidding process, um, you
know, what, what do you see in termsof, Um, you know, how, how do, how do
people who are really good at this typeof thing, like, like what characteristics
(38:51):
do they have or what, what best practiceshave, have you seen out there supporting
so many public sector customers?
Wow.
This is such a good question.
And I have been doing this fora long time, almost 30 years.
So I have seen a lot and it's evolving.
Um, one thing I just want to sayabout regulatory requirements is
I think even more so than fundingthat one can be the most challenging
(39:11):
because the They are constantlychanging and the customers don't
necessarily have any control over that.
They just get, Hey,here's a new requirement.
Now go and put this into place andwhatever costs that might accrue,
like figure out how to deal with it.
And so they're constantly havingto shift monies around to meet
these regulatory requirements.
(39:32):
Something that's Extraordinarily,I think, overlooked when you
think about the challenging rolethat is a CIO in a public entity.
So something really worth noting, um,how SHI might help or how a partner
might help is staying abreast of thoseregulatory requirements, making sure
that we really understand what thatmeans, how it will impact the customer.
(39:53):
So that we can come to that table fullyprepared for that discussion and with
really good opportunity for solutioningand things like that, instead of just
trying to learn it from the customerwhen we're sitting at the table.
So that that's a really important partof the partnership when you're doing
doing with dealing with public entities.
So I'll just say that.
I think for procurement itself.
(40:16):
I mean, most procure either by publicRFP or by cooperative contracts.
So.
Public RFPs can be extraordinarily timeconsuming and expensive, and often when
they get to the end of those, there is a,uh, a dispute or, you know, some type of,
uh, appeal that one of the responders willgo through that causes even more delay.
(40:40):
And so I think just being a reallygood responder to RFPs, putting
your best foot forward, making sureyou're addressing the questions.
Really knowing what what that customeris trying to accomplish going into that
cycle so you can be the best responderreally helps these public entities.
And that's what we're here to try todo is support them in their journey.
(41:01):
And so that can be a very quirkyprocess for them too, which is why I
think a lot of public entities steertowards cooperative contracting.
So just having those avenues for them toprocure what they need when they need it
in the easiest, most cost effective wayis really critical for these customers.
The last piece of that is funding.
(41:21):
And that is probably the most importantpart because finding the money or helping
the customers access grants and funding.
That is available to them isreally key in helping them get
these projects off the ground.
And so SHI, for example, has a whole team,a whole grants and funding team that helps
customers get reports that show them allof the complete opportunities that are
(41:45):
available from the federal government,state government, private funding sources,
so that they can then consider and go outand write grants or go and, um, actually,
you know, try to get those funding sourcesand we help them through that journey.
And so, That that's another piece tothat differentiates public public sector.
And Dan talked about a lot of that.
(42:05):
And you mentioned the amount of timethat you've been been working in the
public sector, you know, 30 years.
And, um, you know, in terms of cybersecurity, like, how is what are there?
Are there unique things that publicsector, um, you know, I T managers
and procurement leaders, you know,need to need to consider from from a
cyber perspective, or or how is it?
How has it evolved over the timethat you've been supporting it?
(42:29):
You know, I, I think there'salways uniqueness to public sector.
But again, foundationally, whatthey're trying to do is the same.
They're trying to protect our data.
They're trying to protect our security,our, their constituents, you and I.
Um, and so I just think there's thiselevated set and with taxpayer money.
(42:49):
And I think there's this elevatedsense of responsibility around that.
Um, they, they can't get it wrong.
And if they do, Someone isgoing to be removed from office.
Somebody is going to be notvoted in again next year.
And so that, that, that might be thebiggest differentiator, but again,
foundationally, they're tryingto protect our lives, our data.
(43:11):
Um, so it is different, butit's also very much the same.
It's, it's just, it's justsuch the big hot button topic.
I will just say this.
I do think that public entities in many.
Situations are getting much more in termsof sophisticated attacks, the number
of attacks that they get because theyhold so much personal information about
(43:36):
each of us in their, in their databases.
So the volume, the volumeis massive of these attacks.
I'm just so in awe of our civil servantsbecause like the job that Dan has, I
mean, it's not enough time to actuallytalk about like how hard his job is.
And I'm in awe every day of thesepeople that I work with and how they
(43:59):
get things done for us, you know?
So it's just, I love that you'rehighlighting, uh, local government CIOs.
Thank you for that.
And I think, you know, now thatwe're running out of time, I
think you just, uh, came up, gaveus a topic for a future episode.
So I always appreciate that.
So as, as we wrap up today, it'sclear that the role of the municipal
CIO is more crucial than ever innavigating the complexities of digital
(44:21):
transformation at the city level.
Dan Alt's work in Cary, NorthCarolina exemplifies how
technology can be harnessed.
To not only improve services, but tofundamentally reshape the way cities
operate and interact with their residents.
I want to thank Dan Ault for sharing hisvaluable insights and expertise, and I'm
so grateful to my dear friend and co hostDenise Collison for joining me today.
(44:43):
We hope this episode has inspired you tothink about the potential of technology
in your own community and the pivotalrole CIOs play in driving that change.
Until next time, keep innovating.
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