June 10, 2025 • 34 mins
Israel blocked aid into Gaza for 10 weeks. Then the US and Israel came up with a new plan – without the United Nations. Established aid agencies had doubts. Inside Geneva finds out why.
Jan Egeland,secretary general, Norwegian Refugee Council: ‘We would welcome anything that would allow us to resume work for a population that is starving and that has been suffocated by a siege over two months. But this seems to be militarized, politicized, manipulated. People have to walk long distances through the rubble to get aid.’
The new Gaza Humanitarian Foundation has had a disastrous start. Dozens of Palestinians have been shot trying to get aid.
Chris Lockyear, Secretary General, MSF: ‘This is not child's play. It is not a military operation. It is a different thing that requires years and decades of experience to get where we've got to now. So it breaks my heart to say it, but it wasn't a surprise to see those horrendous images from the first day of operation of the GHF in Gaza.’
It’s not clear who is actually running the new Foundation, but international lawyers warn they could be liable for war crimes.
Philip Grant, Trial International: To lend material aid to the Israeli plan can be construed as complicity in the war crime of forcible displacement of the civilian population. And that would entail first of all the possibility for any state, almost any state in the world to use universal jurisdiction.
Meanwhile the UN warns that Gaza’s population is now close to famine.
Jan Egeland: We now hope to see Europe, the United Nations and those who are there to defend international law to stand up for principle when Israel is besieging 2 million Palestinians, where half of them are children and totally innocent.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This is Inside Geneva .
I'm your host, Imogen Foulkes,and this is a production from
SwissInfo, the internationalpublic media company of
Switzerland.
In today's programme….
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Hunger and fear.
Palestinians in Gaza say goingto new food distribution sites
comes with the risk of deaththis seems to be militarized,
politicized, manipulated.
Speaker 5 (00:35):
People have to walk long distances through the
rubble to get aid after morethan 80 days of a total blockade
, Israel has started allowing alimited amount of supplies into
some parts of the Strip.
Speaker 6 (00:48):
This is not child's play, it is not a military
operation.
It is a different thing thatrequires years and decades and
decades of experience to getwhere we've got to now.
Speaker 7 (01:02):
Reports from Gaza say at least 26 Palestinians have
been killed and many morewounded after Israeli tank fire
hit people near a US-funded aiddistribution centre.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
It's a natural disaster.
The writing was on the wallfrom quite a long time ago.
All of the actors the UN, thehumanitarian agencies, the NGOs
have been saying that from thestart.
Militarising aid is not goingto work.
Israeli forces have opened fireagain on hungry.
Palestinians desperate for aid.
Speaker 6 (01:33):
It breaks my heart to say it, but it wasn't a
surprise to see those horrendousimages from the first day of
operation of the GHF in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Hello and welcome again to Inside Geneva.
In today's programme, we'regoing to take a long, hard look
at the controversial new aiddistribution body, the Gaza
Humanitarian Foundation body.
The Gaza HumanitarianFoundation.
I'm sure most, if not all, ourlisteners know that Gaza's two
million plus people need aideverything from food to water,
(02:14):
medicine and shelter but sinceHamas's brutal attack on October
7th 2023, there have beendisagreements about how that aid
should get in and who shoulddeliver it.
Israel controls all the entrypoints to Gaza.
Un aid agencies say theirsupplies are routinely held up
(02:36):
or turned away altogether.
International journalistsaren't allowed into Gaza, so
let's begin by talking tosomeone who does go there
regularly Chris Locke here,secretary General of Médecins
Sans Frontières, or DoctorsWithout Borders.
Speaker 6 (02:53):
At the moment we're working in two hospitals,
supporting in two hospitals thatare run by the Ministry of
Health.
There's Al-Aqsa and NazerHospital and we've got a field
hospital in Deir el-Bala andwe've got six primary healthcare
clinics all now pretty much inthe south.
Through them we're doing thesurgical support, wound care,
physiotherapy, maternity andpediatric care, primary
(03:15):
healthcare, vaccination, mentalhealth services, and we're also
doing water distribution as well.
So it's quite a selection ofsome quite specialist medical
activities.
Now we have been moving in andout of facilities and evacuating
facilities and moving withpeople throughout the whole
(03:37):
course of this war, and we arenow very concentrated in the
south of Gaza.
North of Gaza is and remains asiege within a siege, and so,
although on one hand you canlook at it as a portfolio of all
of the range of services thatare needed, there is no way that
we and other health providersare providing anywhere near the
(04:00):
healthcare that is needed inGaza following what has been a
systematic destruction of thehealth system in general.
Speaker 10 (04:08):
It's time for Hayat to have her wounds treated and
her bandages changed.
An Israeli airstrike did thisBurns, cover her arms and back.
Israel renewed its blockade ofmedicine and food entering the
Gaza Strip more than two monthsago.
It's making the treatment ofGaza's many burned victims
(04:28):
increasingly hard.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Getting things in to Gaza.
Well, there's been a blockade.
Are your supplies blockaded too?
Speaker 6 (04:40):
Yeah, so we have been , like all other aid agencies,
been subjected to this airtightblockade, which has been
happening since the 3rd of March.
It's been essentially beenairtight for the longest period
since this conflict started.
So we, along with everybodyelse, are subject to this
constraint, this blockade, thissiege, and we're having to
(05:04):
change the protocols oftreatment as a consequence of
this.
We see it's a longer timebetween dressing of wounds for
patients, which increasesinfection.
We have to be much morestringent in terms of medication
, in terms of who we can see, soit's much more restrictive in
terms of who we can see and when, and, as a consequence, the
(05:25):
quality of care that we canprovide diminishes as the stocks
diminishes as well.
So, yes, absolutely affected,and it's continual walking on a
tightrope to be able to maintainjust the basic supplies for
these services.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I guess you have regular conversations with
Israeli officials.
What do you say to them andwhat do they say to you?
Why are they blocking medicines?
Speaker 6 (05:53):
Well, we are continually putting the case
across that there needs to bemore aid coming in, more
medicines coming in, morefreedom of movement for
humanitarian, but, moreimportantly, also the fact that
the bombing needs to stop, thatpeople need to be allowed to
flee, that people need to besafe, and we're continually in
(06:14):
conversation with them aboutthese points also, where we, on
a very functional level as well,where we are, where we're
moving on a day-to-day basis tokeep our teams I won't say safe
because nowhere's safe in Gaza,but today basis to keep our
teams.
I won't say safe becausenowhere's safe in Gaza, but to
minimise the threat to our teams, both national and so Gazan
staff and international staff.
Speaker 9 (06:31):
These are the faces of hunger in Gaza, a crisis
affecting hundreds of thousandsof people.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
As Israel's blockade continued and the United Nations
warned of famine, the UnitedStates suddenly announced it had
a plan.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
We're going to help the people of Gaza get some food
.
People are starving.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
A US-backed aid organisation aims to start work
in the Gaza Strip by the end ofMay.
Repeating Israel's reason forblocking aid that Hamas is
stealing it, the US and Israelcame up with a new body, the
Gaza Humanitarian Foundation,which would bypass the UN.
It would, at first at least,work only in the south, so
(07:13):
people would have to walk todistribution points to get aid.
They would be screened and thedistribution points would be
guarded by the Israeli DefenceForce Immediately would be
guarded by the Israeli DefenceForce Immediately.
Long-standing aid workers weresceptical.
Jan Eglund is head of theNorwegian Refugee Council, but
he is also a former head of theUN's Emergency Humanitarian
(07:35):
Coordination Office, or OCHA,and he led the UN's task force
for Syria.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
We would welcome anything that would allow us to
resume work for a populationthat is starving and that has
been suffocated by a siege overtwo months, but this seems to be
militarized, politicized,manipulated.
People have to walk longdistances through the rubble to
(08:05):
get aid, and it is then somekind of a military scheme that
decides whom will get it, howthey will get it and if they
will get it.
So it is in violation of basichumanitarian principles.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Well, some people might say, forget about the
humanitarian principles.
There's 2.2 million people inneed there.
Israel, for whatever reason,doesn't want to have the UN and
other aid agencies unfettered.
Surely aid is needed.
This is a start.
This is better than nothing.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
But it's very inferior to the obvious solution
, which is to lift the blockade.
We had a system working formany, many weeks.
All of the UN agencies, we andthe non-governmental
organisations, the Red Cross andRed Crescent reach all families
in Gaza in an effective andefficient manner.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
In Nusarat, every family had sent a young man to
see if they could get bread.
During the ceasefire, 600trucks of food entered Gaza
every day.
Fewer than 100 after an 11-weekblockade is nowhere near enough
.
Fewer than 100 after an 11-weekblockade is nowhere near enough
.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
The core principles of humanitarian work are
neutrality, impartiality andindependence.
Aid agencies help those in need, regardless of who they are,
and they don't work with themilitary.
Jan Eglund's questions wereshared by many aid workers.
Jan Eglin's questions wereshared by many aid workers.
Un agencies and Eglin'ssuccessor as UN humanitarian
(09:40):
coordinator, Tom Fletcher, saidthey would not work with the new
foundation.
Speaker 6 (09:45):
It makes aid conditional on political and
military aims.
It makes starvation abargaining chip.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Meanwhile, other groups had questions too.
The foundation seemed quitemysterious.
It was registered in both theUnited States and Switzerland.
Philip Grant, head of TrialInternational, a group of
international lawyers who keeptheir eye on possible war crimes
, told me that Switzerland had aduty to ensure the foundation
(10:16):
was legal and above board.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Well, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is such
a murky undertaking, such ashady organization with a
headquarter in the US and abranch in Switzerland.
Our job was to make sure thatany activities that might have
been undertaken from Switzerlandwas done in respect of the
Geneva Conventions, that IHL,international humanitarian law,
(10:59):
is respected.
But they also must ensurerespect from any legal entity
based on its territory.
So our submissions to the Swissauthorities was to ask them to
investigate whether thefoundation had indeed any
dealing with this plan, at leastfrom its branch in Switzerland.
And if so, if they undertookeverything not to violate
international humanitarian lawand also, on the side, if they
(11:20):
have respected Swiss law withregards to the hiring of the
private military contractors.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That's an interesting point.
You say that Switzerland doeshave the duty to ensure
compliance with the law, becauseit's very difficult to find out
, particularly the branch inSwitzerland.
Who is even there, who is evenin charge?
Do the Swiss authorities evenhave a clear picture?
(11:46):
It doesn't seem a verytransparent organisation.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
No, it is not.
We don't know who is part ofthe foundation.
Yeah, indeed, I mean the soleSwiss member and the auditing
firm have resigned.
It seems today pretty clear nowthat anything that might have
taken place in Switzerland is inthe process of being shut down
and everything repatriated tothe US.
(12:11):
Now it doesn't mean theauthorities can just take that
into account and say we don'thave a duty anymore to
investigate.
We do think there is still anobligation to make sure anything
that might have been contraryto the Geneva Conventions,
including the possibleparticipation in a plan to
deport people from northern Gazato the south, should be
(12:33):
investigated by Swissauthorities.
From northern Gaza to the southshould be investigated by Swiss
authorities.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
In Khan Yunis, children rushed to a place where
they'd heard there was hot soup.
They scrambled for thescrapings.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Israel's justification for bypassing the
United Nations and supportingthe foundation is its claim that
UN supplies are being looted oreven going straight to Hamas.
The UN has rejected this,pointing out that during the
ceasefire earlier this year,when 600 trucks of aid were
(13:06):
getting into Gaza each day,supplies were distributed across
Gaza to those in need.
Speaker 8 (13:18):
Gazans are risking death in the search for
life-saving aid.
A desperate crowd ransacks theUnited Nations warehouse,
tearing down metal walls andcarrying off anything they can
find.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
A World Food Programme warehouse was stormed
by desperate Palestinians afterweeks of blockade in late May.
But when I asked them, both JanEgland and MSF's Chris Lockyer
dismissed the idea that lootingwas a major problem.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
It's a myth that there is aid diversion.
Israel has not brought that upwith the UN with any evidence.
So let's use a system that isproven through the last 100
years in all conflict zones andlet's not do something that we
have refused when the Houthisasked for it, when Assad asked
(14:06):
for it, when the armed groups inAfrica asked for it.
We cannot allow that to be donejust because it's Israel.
Gaza.
It's handed over to us and wehaven't been looted.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Never, you've never, had any of your supplies,
medical supplies, looted in Gaza.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
We can guarantee that our supplies, our medical
supplies and aid that MSF isbringing, is going directly to
the population, our medicalsupplies and aid that MSF is
bringing is going directly tothe population.
You know, looking broadly,diversion of aid is a common
concern in conflict zones andhumanitarians have learned to
minimize the risks.
It's not in our interest, it'snot in the population's, the
interest of the population thatwe're trying to serve.
(15:09):
So, while it's impossible toavoid it completely, looking at
the catastrophic situation thatwe have in Gaza today, there is
absolutely no justification interms of using this as a tool
against the population.
You know, there is nojustifiable reason why that
should happen, especially in thecurrent context of occupation
(15:31):
and the ongoing campaign ofethnic cleansing.
It constitutes yet another actof collective punishment.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Israel had said it wanted to control the way aid
got to Palestinians in Gaza fromhubs like this one in the far
south Day.
One of that plan didn't survivecontact with reality.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
One day before the GHF was due to start work, its
boss, former US Marine Jake Woodone of the very few people
identified as working for theorganisation resigned, saying he
would not abandon humanitarianprinciples.
Still the foundation got goingopening one small food
(16:12):
distribution point.
Problems, fatal, catastrophicproblems, were there from the
start.
Speaker 7 (16:23):
At least 31 people have been killed and more than
170 others injured whenPalestinians waiting for food
aid were shot at by the IsraeliDefence Force in Gaza.
Were shot at by the Israelidefence force in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Palestinians walked miles to get aid and multiple
eyewitnesses say were shot at byIsraeli forces by tanks and by
drones.
Dozens have been killed.
Doctors working at the localhospital, supported by the
International Committee of theRed Cross, described the scenes
(16:56):
as utter carnage.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Trial International's Philip Grant again it's an
utter disaster and I think thewriting was on the wall from
quite a long time ago.
All of the actors the UN, thehumanitarian agencies, the NGOs
have been saying that from thestart.
Militarising aid is not goingto work.
It might make the situationworse and there are alternatives
(17:19):
.
The trucks are ready to come in.
The occupying power has theobligation to let in
humanitarian aid.
There's been a blockade for thebetter part of now almost three
months and that is for Israelto put an end to that and to
open its borders as soon aspossible for aid to come in.
The Gaza HumanitarianFoundation and its participation
(17:42):
in the distribution of aid.
Yeah, it's a not a disaster.
There's been already a few daysinto the scheme two big
massacres.
Today it's just been announcedthat they will suspend their
operations, at least for a day.
Unfortunately, it's not asurprise.
The horror show continues.
Speaker 8 (18:06):
Dozens of the injured were taken to several hospitals
, where they were treated by aBritish surgeon.
Speaker 9 (18:11):
As you can see behind me we've got all the bays are
full and they're all gunshotwounds.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
It's absolute carnage here and there are even more
people in the main emergencydepartment as the foundation
tried to continue its worksetting up one or two more
distribution points.
Msf's Chris Lockyer waswatching.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
My heart sank when I saw those images.
I mean it's yet another exampleof utter chaos in Gaza and
another illustration of thedesperate situation that people
are finding themselves inbecause of the level of
malnutrition, the level ofhunger, the needs in Gaza.
(18:55):
You know there's a reason whyhumanitarians work according to
a set of principles.
There is a huge amount ofpractical necessity in terms of
the principles of neutrality,impartiality and independence.
Impartiality is about ensuringthat the aid and humanitarian
assistance goes to the peoplewho most need it and the right
(19:16):
aid goes to those people.
And neutrality is ensuring thatit's delivered by organizations
and people who are not party tothe conflict.
As soon as you are party to theconflict, you can be accused or
actually weaponize, politicize,use the aid for your military
gains, and then you're gettinginto complex questions of trust,
(19:37):
of access to people, securityrisks to both the humanitarian
organizations and, moreimportantly, to the population
themselves, which is what we sawin the first day of the Gaza
Humanitarian Foundation becomingwell, attempting to become
operational in Gaza.
(19:59):
And so, in a sense, I don'tthink I'm alone in saying that I
was, tragically, not surprisedto see how this was playing out.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So Israel and the United States would say that
they are trying to solve thisproblem with the foundation.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
There's been other recent examples of such
militarized and politicizedattempts to provide aid in Gaza,
and they've all failed.
There was the pier that was setup by the US Department of
Defense.
Not only was it physically notable to live up to the job, but
it also wasn't trusted.
The distribution questions werethere when it came to bringing
stuff in through the pier.
There was also the failedattempts to bring food in via
(20:48):
airdrops, which were alsocatastrophically dangerous,
dehumanizing, putting a lot offood dropping into the sea.
None of these initiatives haveso far succeeded to bring in aid
.
Only the humanitarianorganisations and the UN have
done so so far, and that'sbecause I would argue very
strongly the principled approachon one hand, but also the
(21:09):
experience.
This is not child's play, it isnot a military operation.
It is a different thing thatrequires years and decades and
decades of experience to getwhere we've got to now.
So it breaks my heart to say it, but it wasn't a surprise to
see those horrendous images fromthe first day of operation of
(21:31):
the GHF in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
As Gazans buried their dead.
There were more resignations atthe foundation, including the
Boston Consulting Group, whichhad agreed a contract with GHF
to help establish aiddistribution.
At this point, listeners may beasking why I haven't
interviewed the foundationitself.
Listeners may be asking why Ihaven't interviewed the
(21:59):
Foundation itself.
Well, that's because it's stillhard to know exactly who they
are or how to contact them.
There is an email address butno named contact.
I've had one answer to myquestions to the Foundation.
I'll read it to you now wordfor word.
The GHF has delivered more than7 million meals since last
(22:23):
Tuesday.
We haven't had any incident ator within the surrounding
vicinity of our sites.
We don't have any jurisdictionoutside of our designated sites.
Speaker 9 (22:43):
We'll have to ask IDF on those incidents.
A pretense of aid that's how aUN spokesman has described the
US and Israeli-backed fooddistribution operation in Gaza.
The comments coming as aidcentres in Gaza are closed today
, with growing calls for anindependent investigation into
the killings of dozens of people.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
So since there are more than two million people in
Gaza, I guess those sevenmillion meals won't last that
long.
One day after I got that email,when yet more people had been
killed at or close to adistribution site, the GHF
suspended work Temporarily orpermanently.
(23:18):
We're not right now quite sure.
Interestingly, their email iscareful not to deny that
shootings and deaths took place.
It only says they didn't happenin, or perhaps very, very close
to their designated areas.
The IDF, it hints, might knowmore.
(23:38):
Let's go back to Philip Grantagain, and, just for background,
his organisation, trialInternational, has successfully
gathered information that hasled to prosecutions and
convictions of those who havecommitted war crimes, including
Liberian warlord Alia Khazia,who, after seeking asylum in
(24:01):
Switzerland, was sentenced bythe Swiss criminal court to 20
years in prison for majorviolations of international law.
Philip Grant suggests those whowork for the GHF should think
about what they may haveparticipated in.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Yes, we've indeed investigated a number of cases
that have ended up withconvictions in numerous
countries, not just inSwitzerland, and it's our role
in particular, when there's apossibility that violations
happen from the Swiss territory,to investigate cases and
eventually, at some point wewill know in the future if the
(24:41):
Gaza Humanitarian Foundation isparty to a particular grave
breach of the Geneva Conventions, to possibly bring the case
before the authorities.
I'm not saying we will, butwe'll keep an eye on what is
happening and unfolding.
I think what is important toremember is that if the Gaza
(25:01):
Humanitarian Foundation, atleast its leadership, was aware
of an Israeli plan to deportillegally a civilian population
from the north of Gaza to thesouth where the distribution
centers were set up and it seemsmore and more likely that there
was such a plan, but let's usethe conditional right If the
(25:23):
Gaza Humanitarian Foundation andthose who set it up and were
running it knew of that plan andthrough this scheme, this
distribution aid programaccepted to participate and to
lend material aid to the Israeliplan, it can be construed as
complicity in the war crime offorcible displacement of
(25:46):
civilian population.
And that would entail, first ofall, the possibility for any
state, almost any state in theworld to use universal
jurisdiction If one of themembers of the Gaza Humanitarian
Foundation was to travel, let'ssay, to a European country.
And secondly, it doesn't haveany statutes of limitation, so
(26:07):
people could be facingaccountability for decades to
come.
Speaker 7 (26:17):
For a third day running, people were killed
around an aid distribution siterun by the Gaza Humanitarian
Foundation.
This militarised systemendangers lives and violates
international standards on aiddistribution, as the United
Nations has repeatedly warned.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well, as many of our listeners will know, the law,
especially when it comes topossible war crimes, moves
pretty slowly, but the ill-fatedGaza Humanitarian Foundation is
certainly a case to watch.
So where do we go from here ingetting aid into Gaza?
Jan Egland, with his long yearsof experience in humanitarian
(27:03):
work, has watched thedevelopments with dismay.
It's time, he says, to returnto those core principles
neutrality, impartiality andindependence.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
We saw in Afghanistan and we saw in Iraq that we were
too close to the NATO countries, to the American military
operation, and it cost us in thecivilian population and we
became targeted.
But listen, we have been goodin resisting this.
We were asked as an RC in Gazain 2015 by Hamas to aid some
(27:44):
people and not others.
We refused work immediately.
They invaded our offices andafter a standoff, they came back
and said OK, we will let youwork according to your basic
principles.
Why on earth would we letIsrael do what we refused to do
(28:04):
when Hamas pushed us?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Going back to this 14-page plan, the organisers of
it, which seem to be Israel andthe United States, have appeared
to approach former UN officials, aid agency chiefs, to take
part.
I'm just wondering did theyapproach you?
Speaker 4 (28:22):
No, not approached us , and I'm glad to see there is a
unanimous rejection ofsomething would be militarized,
politicized, manipulated.
We cannot end a hundred yearsold tradition of giving aid
according to needs and needsalone.
On the other hand, of course,we're keen to discuss can we
(28:45):
become better?
Could the logistic changebecome better, could we become
even more efficient, could therebe cost efficiency matters,
could we reach people even moredirectly, etc.
Can we explain a monitoring,evaluation, etc.
Better to the donors?
All of that is what always eagerto discuss that, and we hope
(29:06):
that we now hope to see Europeand the United Nations and those
who are there to defendinternational law and those who
are there to defendinternational law to stand up
for principle as they did whenAssad was besieging the cities.
You will remember that I ledthe work to get aid into these
(29:31):
areas where there were some veryradical Islamist men with
beards similar to what we havein Gaza, and the Europeans and
the Americans and others wereoutraged of that besiegement.
How come they're not equallyoutraged now when Israel is
besieging two millionPalestinians, including, where
(29:53):
half of them are children andtotally innocent of them are
children and totally innocent.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
And that brings us to the end of this edition of
Inside Geneva.
We know the issue of aid toGaza has aroused horror, anger,
dismay and confusion.
We always welcome feedback fromour listeners, so do write to
us at insidegeneva, atswissinfoch.
And here's a heads up.
(30:29):
Over the summer we'll bereviving our series of summer
profiles on Inside Geneva withall sorts of interesting people,
including an internationallawyer who hopes to become a
judge at the International Courtof Justice.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
From the moment when I first studied international
law, I knew that that was what Iwanted to do At the time.
I'd looked at it and I still do, actually as a framework within
which states and, by extension,people in states could live
together on the basis of aframework that provides
(31:08):
predictability, stability andjustice.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Join us starting in July for our series of summer
profiles.
Series of summer profiles.
A reminder you've beenlistening to Inside Geneva, a
Swiss Info production.
You can subscribe to us andreview us wherever you get your
podcasts.
(31:31):
Check out our previous episodeshow the International Red Cross
unites prisoners of war withtheir families, or why survivors
of human rights violations turnto the UN in Geneva for justice
.
I'm Imogen Folks.
Thanks again for listening.
This is Inside Geneva .
I'm your host, Imogen Foulkes,and this is a production from
SwissInfo, the internationalpublic media company of
Switzerland.
In today's programme….
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Hunger and fear.
Palestinians in Gaza say goingto new food distribution sites
comes with the risk of deaththis seems to be militarized,
politicized, manipulated.
Speaker 5 (00:35):
People have to walk long distances through the
rubble to get aid after morethan 80 days of a total blockade
, Israel has started allowing alimited amount of supplies into
some parts of the Strip.
Speaker 6 (00:48):
This is not child's play, it is not a military
operation.
It is a different thing thatrequires years and decades and
decades of experience to getwhere we've got to now.
Speaker 7 (01:02):
Reports from Gaza say at least 26 Palestinians have
been killed and many morewounded after Israeli tank fire
hit people near a US-funded aiddistribution centre.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
It's a natural disaster.
The writing was on the wallfrom quite a long time ago.
All of the actors the UN, thehumanitarian agencies, the NGOs
have been saying that from thestart.
Militarising aid is not goingto work.
Israeli forces have opened fireagain on hungry.
Palestinians desperate for aid.
Speaker 6 (01:33):
It breaks my heart to say it, but it wasn't a
surprise to see those horrendousimages from the first day of
operation of the GHF in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Hello and welcome again to Inside Geneva.
In today's programme, we'regoing to take a long, hard look
at the controversial new aiddistribution body, the Gaza
Humanitarian Foundation body.
The Gaza HumanitarianFoundation.
I'm sure most, if not all, ourlisteners know that Gaza's two
million plus people need aideverything from food to water,
(02:14):
medicine and shelter but sinceHamas's brutal attack on October
7th 2023, there have beendisagreements about how that aid
should get in and who shoulddeliver it.
Israel controls all the entrypoints to Gaza.
Un aid agencies say theirsupplies are routinely held up
(02:36):
or turned away altogether.
International journalistsaren't allowed into Gaza, so
let's begin by talking tosomeone who does go there
regularly Chris Locke here,secretary General of Médecins
Sans Frontières, or DoctorsWithout Borders.
Speaker 6 (02:53):
At the moment we're working in two hospitals,
supporting in two hospitals thatare run by the Ministry of
Health.
There's Al-Aqsa and NazerHospital and we've got a field
hospital in Deir el-Bala andwe've got six primary healthcare
clinics all now pretty much inthe south.
Through them we're doing thesurgical support, wound care,
physiotherapy, maternity andpediatric care, primary
(03:15):
healthcare, vaccination, mentalhealth services, and we're also
doing water distribution as well.
So it's quite a selection ofsome quite specialist medical
activities.
Now we have been moving in andout of facilities and evacuating
facilities and moving withpeople throughout the whole
(03:37):
course of this war, and we arenow very concentrated in the
south of Gaza.
North of Gaza is and remains asiege within a siege, and so,
although on one hand you canlook at it as a portfolio of all
of the range of services thatare needed, there is no way that
we and other health providersare providing anywhere near the
(04:00):
healthcare that is needed inGaza following what has been a
systematic destruction of thehealth system in general.
Speaker 10 (04:08):
It's time for Hayat to have her wounds treated and
her bandages changed.
An Israeli airstrike did thisBurns, cover her arms and back.
Israel renewed its blockade ofmedicine and food entering the
Gaza Strip more than two monthsago.
It's making the treatment ofGaza's many burned victims
(04:28):
increasingly hard.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Getting things in to Gaza.
Well, there's been a blockade.
Are your supplies blockaded too?
Speaker 6 (04:40):
Yeah, so we have been , like all other aid agencies,
been subjected to this airtightblockade, which has been
happening since the 3rd of March.
It's been essentially beenairtight for the longest period
since this conflict started.
So we, along with everybodyelse, are subject to this
constraint, this blockade, thissiege, and we're having to
(05:04):
change the protocols oftreatment as a consequence of
this.
We see it's a longer timebetween dressing of wounds for
patients, which increasesinfection.
We have to be much morestringent in terms of medication
, in terms of who we can see, soit's much more restrictive in
terms of who we can see and when, and, as a consequence, the
(05:25):
quality of care that we canprovide diminishes as the stocks
diminishes as well.
So, yes, absolutely affected,and it's continual walking on a
tightrope to be able to maintainjust the basic supplies for
these services.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I guess you have regular conversations with
Israeli officials.
What do you say to them andwhat do they say to you?
Why are they blocking medicines?
Speaker 6 (05:53):
Well, we are continually putting the case
across that there needs to bemore aid coming in, more
medicines coming in, morefreedom of movement for
humanitarian, but, moreimportantly, also the fact that
the bombing needs to stop, thatpeople need to be allowed to
flee, that people need to besafe, and we're continually in
(06:14):
conversation with them aboutthese points also, where we, on
a very functional level as well,where we are, where we're
moving on a day-to-day basis tokeep our teams I won't say safe
because nowhere's safe in Gaza,but today basis to keep our
teams.
I won't say safe becausenowhere's safe in Gaza, but to
minimise the threat to our teams, both national and so Gazan
staff and international staff.
Speaker 9 (06:31):
These are the faces of hunger in Gaza, a crisis
affecting hundreds of thousandsof people.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
As Israel's blockade continued and the United Nations
warned of famine, the UnitedStates suddenly announced it had
a plan.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
We're going to help the people of Gaza get some food
.
People are starving.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
A US-backed aid organisation aims to start work
in the Gaza Strip by the end ofMay.
Repeating Israel's reason forblocking aid that Hamas is
stealing it, the US and Israelcame up with a new body, the
Gaza Humanitarian Foundation,which would bypass the UN.
It would, at first at least,work only in the south, so
(07:13):
people would have to walk todistribution points to get aid.
They would be screened and thedistribution points would be
guarded by the Israeli DefenceForce Immediately would be
guarded by the Israeli DefenceForce Immediately.
Long-standing aid workers weresceptical.
Jan Eglund is head of theNorwegian Refugee Council, but
he is also a former head of theUN's Emergency Humanitarian
(07:35):
Coordination Office, or OCHA,and he led the UN's task force
for Syria.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
We would welcome anything that would allow us to
resume work for a populationthat is starving and that has
been suffocated by a siege overtwo months, but this seems to be
militarized, politicized,manipulated.
People have to walk longdistances through the rubble to
(08:05):
get aid, and it is then somekind of a military scheme that
decides whom will get it, howthey will get it and if they
will get it.
So it is in violation of basichumanitarian principles.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Well, some people might say, forget about the
humanitarian principles.
There's 2.2 million people inneed there.
Israel, for whatever reason,doesn't want to have the UN and
other aid agencies unfettered.
Surely aid is needed.
This is a start.
This is better than nothing.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
But it's very inferior to the obvious solution
, which is to lift the blockade.
We had a system working formany, many weeks.
All of the UN agencies, we andthe non-governmental
organisations, the Red Cross andRed Crescent reach all families
in Gaza in an effective andefficient manner.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
In Nusarat, every family had sent a young man to
see if they could get bread.
During the ceasefire, 600trucks of food entered Gaza
every day.
Fewer than 100 after an 11-weekblockade is nowhere near enough
.
Fewer than 100 after an 11-weekblockade is nowhere near enough
.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
The core principles of humanitarian work are
neutrality, impartiality andindependence.
Aid agencies help those in need, regardless of who they are,
and they don't work with themilitary.
Jan Eglund's questions wereshared by many aid workers.
Jan Eglin's questions wereshared by many aid workers.
Un agencies and Eglin'ssuccessor as UN humanitarian
(09:40):
coordinator, Tom Fletcher, saidthey would not work with the new
foundation.
Speaker 6 (09:45):
It makes aid conditional on political and
military aims.
It makes starvation abargaining chip.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Meanwhile, other groups had questions too.
The foundation seemed quitemysterious.
It was registered in both theUnited States and Switzerland.
Philip Grant, head of TrialInternational, a group of
international lawyers who keeptheir eye on possible war crimes
, told me that Switzerland had aduty to ensure the foundation
(10:16):
was legal and above board.
Speaker 5 (10:27):
Well, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is such
a murky undertaking, such ashady organization with a
headquarter in the US and abranch in Switzerland.
Our job was to make sure thatany activities that might have
been undertaken from Switzerlandwas done in respect of the
Geneva Conventions, that IHL,international humanitarian law,
(10:59):
is respected.
But they also must ensurerespect from any legal entity
based on its territory.
So our submissions to the Swissauthorities was to ask them to
investigate whether thefoundation had indeed any
dealing with this plan, at leastfrom its branch in Switzerland.
And if so, if they undertookeverything not to violate
international humanitarian lawand also, on the side, if they
(11:20):
have respected Swiss law withregards to the hiring of the
private military contractors.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That's an interesting point.
You say that Switzerland doeshave the duty to ensure
compliance with the law, becauseit's very difficult to find out
, particularly the branch inSwitzerland.
Who is even there, who is evenin charge?
Do the Swiss authorities evenhave a clear picture?
(11:46):
It doesn't seem a verytransparent organisation.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
No, it is not.
We don't know who is part ofthe foundation.
Yeah, indeed, I mean the soleSwiss member and the auditing
firm have resigned.
It seems today pretty clear nowthat anything that might have
taken place in Switzerland is inthe process of being shut down
and everything repatriated tothe US.
(12:11):
Now it doesn't mean theauthorities can just take that
into account and say we don'thave a duty anymore to
investigate.
We do think there is still anobligation to make sure anything
that might have been contraryto the Geneva Conventions,
including the possibleparticipation in a plan to
deport people from northern Gazato the south, should be
(12:33):
investigated by Swissauthorities.
From northern Gaza to the southshould be investigated by Swiss
authorities.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
In Khan Yunis, children rushed to a place where
they'd heard there was hot soup.
They scrambled for thescrapings.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Israel's justification for bypassing the
United Nations and supportingthe foundation is its claim that
UN supplies are being looted oreven going straight to Hamas.
The UN has rejected this,pointing out that during the
ceasefire earlier this year,when 600 trucks of aid were
(13:06):
getting into Gaza each day,supplies were distributed across
Gaza to those in need.
Speaker 8 (13:18):
Gazans are risking death in the search for
life-saving aid.
A desperate crowd ransacks theUnited Nations warehouse,
tearing down metal walls andcarrying off anything they can
find.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
A World Food Programme warehouse was stormed
by desperate Palestinians afterweeks of blockade in late May.
But when I asked them, both JanEgland and MSF's Chris Lockyer
dismissed the idea that lootingwas a major problem.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
It's a myth that there is aid diversion.
Israel has not brought that upwith the UN with any evidence.
So let's use a system that isproven through the last 100
years in all conflict zones andlet's not do something that we
have refused when the Houthisasked for it, when Assad asked
(14:06):
for it, when the armed groups inAfrica asked for it.
We cannot allow that to be donejust because it's Israel.
Gaza.
It's handed over to us and wehaven't been looted.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Never, you've never, had any of your supplies,
medical supplies, looted in Gaza.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
We can guarantee that our supplies, our medical
supplies and aid that MSF isbringing, is going directly to
the population, our medicalsupplies and aid that MSF is
bringing is going directly tothe population.
You know, looking broadly,diversion of aid is a common
concern in conflict zones andhumanitarians have learned to
minimize the risks.
It's not in our interest, it'snot in the population's, the
interest of the population thatwe're trying to serve.
(15:09):
So, while it's impossible toavoid it completely, looking at
the catastrophic situation thatwe have in Gaza today, there is
absolutely no justification interms of using this as a tool
against the population.
You know, there is nojustifiable reason why that
should happen, especially in thecurrent context of occupation
(15:31):
and the ongoing campaign ofethnic cleansing.
It constitutes yet another actof collective punishment.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Israel had said it wanted to control the way aid
got to Palestinians in Gaza fromhubs like this one in the far
south Day.
One of that plan didn't survivecontact with reality.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
One day before the GHF was due to start work, its
boss, former US Marine Jake Woodone of the very few people
identified as working for theorganisation resigned, saying he
would not abandon humanitarianprinciples.
Still the foundation got goingopening one small food
(16:12):
distribution point.
Problems, fatal, catastrophicproblems, were there from the
start.
Speaker 7 (16:23):
At least 31 people have been killed and more than
170 others injured whenPalestinians waiting for food
aid were shot at by the IsraeliDefence Force in Gaza.
Were shot at by the Israelidefence force in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Palestinians walked miles to get aid and multiple
eyewitnesses say were shot at byIsraeli forces by tanks and by
drones.
Dozens have been killed.
Doctors working at the localhospital, supported by the
International Committee of theRed Cross, described the scenes
(16:56):
as utter carnage.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Trial International's Philip Grant again it's an
utter disaster and I think thewriting was on the wall from
quite a long time ago.
All of the actors the UN, thehumanitarian agencies, the NGOs
have been saying that from thestart.
Militarising aid is not goingto work.
It might make the situationworse and there are alternatives
(17:19):
.
The trucks are ready to come in.
The occupying power has theobligation to let in
humanitarian aid.
There's been a blockade for thebetter part of now almost three
months and that is for Israelto put an end to that and to
open its borders as soon aspossible for aid to come in.
The Gaza HumanitarianFoundation and its participation
(17:42):
in the distribution of aid.
Yeah, it's a not a disaster.
There's been already a few daysinto the scheme two big
massacres.
Today it's just been announcedthat they will suspend their
operations, at least for a day.
Unfortunately, it's not asurprise.
The horror show continues.
Speaker 8 (18:06):
Dozens of the injured were taken to several hospitals
, where they were treated by aBritish surgeon.
Speaker 9 (18:11):
As you can see behind me we've got all the bays are
full and they're all gunshotwounds.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
It's absolute carnage here and there are even more
people in the main emergencydepartment as the foundation
tried to continue its worksetting up one or two more
distribution points.
Msf's Chris Lockyer waswatching.
Speaker 6 (18:34):
My heart sank when I saw those images.
I mean it's yet another exampleof utter chaos in Gaza and
another illustration of thedesperate situation that people
are finding themselves inbecause of the level of
malnutrition, the level ofhunger, the needs in Gaza.
(18:55):
You know there's a reason whyhumanitarians work according to
a set of principles.
There is a huge amount ofpractical necessity in terms of
the principles of neutrality,impartiality and independence.
Impartiality is about ensuringthat the aid and humanitarian
assistance goes to the peoplewho most need it and the right
(19:16):
aid goes to those people.
And neutrality is ensuring thatit's delivered by organizations
and people who are not party tothe conflict.
As soon as you are party to theconflict, you can be accused or
actually weaponize, politicize,use the aid for your military
gains, and then you're gettinginto complex questions of trust,
(19:37):
of access to people, securityrisks to both the humanitarian
organizations and, moreimportantly, to the population
themselves, which is what we sawin the first day of the Gaza
Humanitarian Foundation becomingwell, attempting to become
operational in Gaza.
(19:59):
And so, in a sense, I don'tthink I'm alone in saying that I
was, tragically, not surprisedto see how this was playing out.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So Israel and the United States would say that
they are trying to solve thisproblem with the foundation.
Speaker 6 (20:27):
There's been other recent examples of such
militarized and politicizedattempts to provide aid in Gaza,
and they've all failed.
There was the pier that was setup by the US Department of
Defense.
Not only was it physically notable to live up to the job, but
it also wasn't trusted.
The distribution questions werethere when it came to bringing
stuff in through the pier.
There was also the failedattempts to bring food in via
(20:48):
airdrops, which were alsocatastrophically dangerous,
dehumanizing, putting a lot offood dropping into the sea.
None of these initiatives haveso far succeeded to bring in aid
.
Only the humanitarianorganisations and the UN have
done so so far, and that'sbecause I would argue very
strongly the principled approachon one hand, but also the
(21:09):
experience.
This is not child's play, it isnot a military operation.
It is a different thing thatrequires years and decades and
decades of experience to getwhere we've got to now.
So it breaks my heart to say it, but it wasn't a surprise to
see those horrendous images fromthe first day of operation of
(21:31):
the GHF in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
As Gazans buried their dead.
There were more resignations atthe foundation, including the
Boston Consulting Group, whichhad agreed a contract with GHF
to help establish aiddistribution.
At this point, listeners may beasking why I haven't
interviewed the foundationitself.
Listeners may be asking why Ihaven't interviewed the
(21:59):
Foundation itself.
Well, that's because it's stillhard to know exactly who they
are or how to contact them.
There is an email address butno named contact.
I've had one answer to myquestions to the Foundation.
I'll read it to you now wordfor word.
The GHF has delivered more than7 million meals since last
(22:23):
Tuesday.
We haven't had any incident ator within the surrounding
vicinity of our sites.
We don't have any jurisdictionoutside of our designated sites.
Speaker 9 (22:43):
We'll have to ask IDF on those incidents.
A pretense of aid that's how aUN spokesman has described the
US and Israeli-backed fooddistribution operation in Gaza.
The comments coming as aidcentres in Gaza are closed today
, with growing calls for anindependent investigation into
the killings of dozens of people.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
So since there are more than two million people in
Gaza, I guess those sevenmillion meals won't last that
long.
One day after I got that email,when yet more people had been
killed at or close to adistribution site, the GHF
suspended work Temporarily orpermanently.
(23:18):
We're not right now quite sure.
Interestingly, their email iscareful not to deny that
shootings and deaths took place.
It only says they didn't happenin, or perhaps very, very close
to their designated areas.
The IDF, it hints, might knowmore.
(23:38):
Let's go back to Philip Grantagain, and, just for background,
his organisation, trialInternational, has successfully
gathered information that hasled to prosecutions and
convictions of those who havecommitted war crimes, including
Liberian warlord Alia Khazia,who, after seeking asylum in
(24:01):
Switzerland, was sentenced bythe Swiss criminal court to 20
years in prison for majorviolations of international law.
Philip Grant suggests those whowork for the GHF should think
about what they may haveparticipated in.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Yes, we've indeed investigated a number of cases
that have ended up withconvictions in numerous
countries, not just inSwitzerland, and it's our role
in particular, when there's apossibility that violations
happen from the Swiss territory,to investigate cases and
eventually, at some point wewill know in the future if the
(24:41):
Gaza Humanitarian Foundation isparty to a particular grave
breach of the Geneva Conventions, to possibly bring the case
before the authorities.
I'm not saying we will, butwe'll keep an eye on what is
happening and unfolding.
I think what is important toremember is that if the Gaza
(25:01):
Humanitarian Foundation, atleast its leadership, was aware
of an Israeli plan to deportillegally a civilian population
from the north of Gaza to thesouth where the distribution
centers were set up and it seemsmore and more likely that there
was such a plan, but let's usethe conditional right If the
(25:23):
Gaza Humanitarian Foundation andthose who set it up and were
running it knew of that plan andthrough this scheme, this
distribution aid programaccepted to participate and to
lend material aid to the Israeliplan, it can be construed as
complicity in the war crime offorcible displacement of
(25:46):
civilian population.
And that would entail, first ofall, the possibility for any
state, almost any state in theworld to use universal
jurisdiction If one of themembers of the Gaza Humanitarian
Foundation was to travel, let'ssay, to a European country.
And secondly, it doesn't haveany statutes of limitation, so
(26:07):
people could be facingaccountability for decades to
come.
Speaker 7 (26:17):
For a third day running, people were killed
around an aid distribution siterun by the Gaza Humanitarian
Foundation.
This militarised systemendangers lives and violates
international standards on aiddistribution, as the United
Nations has repeatedly warned.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well, as many of our listeners will know, the law,
especially when it comes topossible war crimes, moves
pretty slowly, but the ill-fatedGaza Humanitarian Foundation is
certainly a case to watch.
So where do we go from here ingetting aid into Gaza?
Jan Egland, with his long yearsof experience in humanitarian
(27:03):
work, has watched thedevelopments with dismay.
It's time, he says, to returnto those core principles
neutrality, impartiality andindependence.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
We saw in Afghanistan and we saw in Iraq that we were
too close to the NATO countries, to the American military
operation, and it cost us in thecivilian population and we
became targeted.
But listen, we have been goodin resisting this.
We were asked as an RC in Gazain 2015 by Hamas to aid some
(27:44):
people and not others.
We refused work immediately.
They invaded our offices andafter a standoff, they came back
and said OK, we will let youwork according to your basic
principles.
Why on earth would we letIsrael do what we refused to do
(28:04):
when Hamas pushed us?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Going back to this 14-page plan, the organisers of
it, which seem to be Israel andthe United States, have appeared
to approach former UN officials, aid agency chiefs, to take
part.
I'm just wondering did theyapproach you?
Speaker 4 (28:22):
No, not approached us , and I'm glad to see there is a
unanimous rejection ofsomething would be militarized,
politicized, manipulated.
We cannot end a hundred yearsold tradition of giving aid
according to needs and needsalone.
On the other hand, of course,we're keen to discuss can we
(28:45):
become better?
Could the logistic changebecome better, could we become
even more efficient, could therebe cost efficiency matters,
could we reach people even moredirectly, etc.
Can we explain a monitoring,evaluation, etc.
Better to the donors?
All of that is what always eagerto discuss that, and we hope
(29:06):
that we now hope to see Europeand the United Nations and those
who are there to defendinternational law and those who
are there to defendinternational law to stand up
for principle as they did whenAssad was besieging the cities.
You will remember that I ledthe work to get aid into these
(29:31):
areas where there were some veryradical Islamist men with
beards similar to what we havein Gaza, and the Europeans and
the Americans and others wereoutraged of that besiegement.
How come they're not equallyoutraged now when Israel is
besieging two millionPalestinians, including, where
(29:53):
half of them are children andtotally innocent of them are
children and totally innocent.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
And that brings us to the end of this edition of
Inside Geneva.
We know the issue of aid toGaza has aroused horror, anger,
dismay and confusion.
We always welcome feedback fromour listeners, so do write to
us at insidegeneva, atswissinfoch.
And here's a heads up.
(30:29):
Over the summer we'll bereviving our series of summer
profiles on Inside Geneva withall sorts of interesting people,
including an internationallawyer who hopes to become a
judge at the International Courtof Justice.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
From the moment when I first studied international
law, I knew that that was what Iwanted to do At the time.
I'd looked at it and I still do, actually as a framework within
which states and, by extension,people in states could live
together on the basis of aframework that provides
(31:08):
predictability, stability andjustice.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Join us starting in July for our series of summer
profiles.
Series of summer profiles.
A reminder you've beenlistening to Inside Geneva, a
Swiss Info production.
You can subscribe to us andreview us wherever you get your
podcasts.
(31:31):
Check out our previous episodeshow the International Red Cross
unites prisoners of war withtheir families, or why survivors
of human rights violations turnto the UN in Geneva for justice
.
I'm Imogen Folks.
Thanks again for listening.
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