November 13, 2025 • 52 mins
During the week this episode is releasing, we observe Veterans Day, and as we all know, military service and the veteran community are the bedrock of how rehabilitation counseling came to be. Many Certified Rehabilitation Counselors themselves are veterans or have close ties to the veteran community, including those who directly work with individuals to find employment and navigate their return to civilian life. Julianne Hansen is the Founder and CEO of Team Hansen Education and Empowerment. Much of Julianne’s work has focused on showing the veteran community that they are supported. As a CRC with a disability and spouse to a permanently disabled veteran, Julianne has a unique perspective on the support necessary to help this population thrive, and it begins with meeting each person where they are.
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Episode Transcript
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Taylor Bauer (00:04):
Welcome back to Inside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
I'm CRCC Director ofCommunications and Marketing
Taylor Bauer, and I'm excited tobring you another conversation
exploring the art and science ofrehabilitation counseling.
During the week this episode isreleasing, we observe Veterans
Day.
And as we all know, militaryservice and the veteran
community are the bedrock of howrehabilitation counseling came
(00:25):
to be.
Many certified rehabilitationcounselors themselves are
veterans or have close ties tothe veteran community, including
directly working with folks tofind work and navigate the
return to civilian life.
Julianne Hansen is the founderand CEO of Team Hansen Education
and Empowerment, and much ofJulianne's work has been focused
on finding ways to show theveteran community they are
(00:47):
supported.
As a CRC with a disability andspouse to a permanently disabled
veteran, Julianne has a uniqueperspective on the support
necessary to help thispopulation thrive, and it begins
with meeting each person wherethey are.
Please enjoy this insightfulconversation with Julianne.
And I want to start with you,where we start with all of our
(01:12):
guests, which is kind of how didyou become a certified
rehabilitation counselor?
Can you tell me a little bitabout your journey and kind of
when you learned about thisprofession?
Julianne Hansen (01:22):
Thank you for having me, Taylor.
I know it's really importantfor all of us as CRCs to kind of
meet ourselves as individualsbut as professionals so that we
know where our resources are ineach other.
My original introduction to thefield, believe it or not, was
back when the dinosaurs roamedthe earth, uh, I was homeless
(01:43):
for six months.
And one of my counselorsvoluntold me in the program that
I was in that I would sign upfor Vogue Rehab.
And I laughed and I said, Idon't need Voke Rehab.
I don't know what it is, but Iknow I don't need it.
Uh great decision.
I was still very young.
And so um when I did finallyget introduced to it, um, I
(02:04):
worked with uh the CaliforniaState Department of Voke Rehab.
Um and at first I was like,okay, I kind of get it, but I'm
still not really clicking.
Um and then about nine monthsor so later, my vocal rehab
counselor was reassigned.
And I I was devastated.
Now, mind you, five minutes agoI didn't know what Voke Rehab
(02:25):
was.
But apparently in that ninemonths, I was heavily invested.
The blessing was that my vocalrehab counselor that was
assigned at that point and Iworked together across the span
of almost 20 years.
Um, every time I reached thegoal and I was about to become
employed, I mean likemid-interview for jobs level of
(02:46):
about to become employed, Iwould be hit with you know an
episode of MS.
I would land in my wheelchairfor a year and a half with no
voice and no swallow and aquestionable ability to walk.
And so every time there was,oh, we're gonna, we're gonna hit
this goal, there's gonna beemployment, there'd be something
(03:06):
else to kind of sidetrack it.
And after a while, it was okay,I have to make a decision
because clearly I have enoughdisability in different ways
that I could just sit back andgo, you know what, the world's a
horrible place.
I'm not doing this anymore.
I every time I do it, I fail,forget it, I'm not gonna do it.
But something in me was like,you know, that's not you.
(03:28):
You need to stop it, you'llfigure it out.
And I realized that the acronymfor hope is Hold on Pain Ends.
And that my book, RehabCounselor, and the counselors I
was working with, occupationaltherapy, physical therapy,
everybody, we're all hopedealers.
And we every day we come towork, we are offering some
(03:49):
glimmer of something better.
And I wanted to be a part ofthat.
I wanted to be a hope dealer,and so that's part of what put
me on the path to become a CRC.
Taylor Bauer (04:01):
I feel like um that that hope element, or even
just that um empowerment andadvocate role that that CRCs
play, and we know otherprofessions as well, can be so
vital because you're right,depending on how many, you know,
no path is linear.
Um, and you're, you know,there's there are gonna be, as
you mentioned, chapters of yourlife where you're feeling like
(04:21):
you're taking maybe more stepsbackwards than forwards.
And that can be a really hardthing to deal with uh mentally,
physically, emotionally,everything.
And um, one of the things wehear a lot from clients who work
with CRCs, beyond just theactual, you know, rehabilitation
counseling skills, is it meantthe world to them to have
someone in their corner who waslike, you know, this is a this
(04:44):
is a marathon, not a sprint.
There are going to be periodsthat are harder than others, but
we are going to staygoal-oriented, right?
And I think hope is part ofthat, right?
The goal of of any sort ofprofessional or personal
aspiration for somebody is to isto hope that you're going to
get to that place you want toget to.
And and and now you're doingthat work um and impacting so
(05:05):
many.
You are the founder and CEO ofTeam Hansen Education and
Empowerment LLC.
Um, can you tell me a littlebit about your business and kind
of what drove you to start it,as well as some of the programs
and workshops that you offer?
Julianne Hansen (05:18):
So, Team Hansen, um, we put a stop to it
for a minute.
We are reframing as we'verelocated across the country to
get better VA healthcare for myhusband.
So at the moment, Team HansenEducation and Empowerment, uh,
we have we're developing furtherfor an online audience what I
call the We've Got Your Sixprogram.
And it's six elements of don'thate the play, hate the game.
(05:42):
Understand if you areaccommodating at school or
trying to get through a VAclaim, there's a process and
it's not personal, it'sbusiness.
It feels personal.
Oh, trust me.
I'm sure.
And it will feel even morepersonal before it's done.
But that level of self-carebaseline of healthcare
education.
(06:02):
You know, if you ask an elderlyveteran, well, do you have high
blood pressure?
Well, yeah, I have high bloodpressure.
But the PACT Act sayshypertension.
Well, if they're not calling ithypertension, their automatic
answer is no, I don't havehypertension.
Okay.
Do you have a heart problem?
Well, yes.
Do you have ischemic heartdisease?
No.
Okay.
What kind of heart problem doyou have?
(06:23):
The way they understand it,they're almost like
automatically talking themselvesout of it because, well, that's
not for me.
So that's what we love to do,including students with
disabilities, including veteransand their families, is reframe
the work.
Reframe the work, the what Icall worksheets because they're
not just technical forms.
(06:43):
We're not filling it out foryou.
We are educating you on past acertain era of service.
Your VA number is your socialsecurity number.
You know, little things likethat.
The Vietnam era veteran is notjust were you boots on the
ground in Vietnam?
We don't want stolen valor, butwe want some respect for having
(07:06):
served where we were when wewere there.
A lot of our younger kids, ouryounger uh veterans right now
don't recognize, don't process.
If they serve post-2001 topresent, this and their boots
were on the ground outside ofthe US, they serve in a war
zone.
Taylor Bauer (07:22):
Right.
Julianne Hansen (07:23):
So when the box asks, have you served in a war
zone?
Well, no.
Why?
Because nothing blew up infront of you.
And so we talk about that.
And we talk about the moralinjury.
We talk about coming home toadjustment disorder and not
having any concept of socialconstruct outside of the base.
(07:47):
Not that we don't know how tohandle ourselves, of course we
do.
But little things like on timeis late, well, you better know
it.
But a lot of people who havenever served in the military,
20, 30 minutes is nothing.
We work on making it less of apersonal affront and more of an
empowered presence.
(08:08):
You know, we don't have tofight it every inch of the way.
Taylor Bauer (08:12):
Yeah, and that that's so important.
I think the intricacy of all ofthese systems, which can be
life-changing for folks toaccess all of the benefits that
they've earned through service,can be so overwhelming.
And I think having a a CRC oran organization like yours kind
of there to say, like, like yousaid, we've got your sets, you
know, these are complex systemsthat we are not only going to,
(08:36):
you know, work with you onnavigating, but I like what you
said about self-empowerment andnot filling out forms on behalf
of someone.
So they're not gaining insightinto why certain things are
organized the way they are.
And even if, you know, evenafter they understand it, if
they're like, still doesn'treally make a whole lot of
sense.
Like you said, it's, it's,it's, it's, don't hate the
player, hate the game.
This is how it's set up rightnow.
(08:57):
So how do you navigate it inthe way that's going to work for
you?
And um, that doesn't mean thatthere still aren't hurdles, but
the more you understand wherethose hurdles are and how to
give the answers that they'relooking for, that's just a lot
to take in.
And I think it's so vital thatCRCs work with veterans because
this is all so, to me, assomeone who hasn't even gone
(09:18):
through it, so overwhelming tohear about.
I can't even imagine if nowit's like my benefits are on the
line, right?
And if I don't understand howto follow the necessary steps, I
might not get access to thosethings that I'm that I've
earned.
And that that is anintimidating thing.
And the funny thing aboutintimidation or feeling
overwhelmed is we know sometimesit our instinct is to kind of
(09:39):
be like, okay, never mind.
I'm not gonna pursue this, I'mnot gonna seek these out.
It seems like too much.
And they could greatly benefitfrom having access to these
services.
So it's so important that youknow, you and other CRCs who
work with the veteran uhcommunity are there to walk them
through this.
Julianne Hansen (09:57):
Part of it as well, and I absolutely I
appreciate your conciseexplanation.
Um, part of it is, for example,a mental health claim.
If we say, Oh, well, I havePTS, well, depending on the
examiner, uh, literally theysaid to my husband, Well, did
you see anyone die in front ofyou?
And he said, No.
He said, then you don't havePTS.
And that person denied theirclaim, denied his claim right
(10:20):
off the bat.
And I'm like, okay, um, that'smy husband, first of all.
Taylor Bauer (10:24):
Right, right.
Julianne Hansen (10:25):
I'm living this.
Uh but on the other side ofthat is instead of filing, I'm,
you know, I'm requestingdisability for PTS.
If you use the words mentalhealth all-inclusive, that
interprets too, I don't reallywant to get into an argument
about what to call it.
I want someone to identifywhat's going on with this person
(10:47):
and assist them, whether that'sthrough paying them and giving
them provisions and services ornot.
The suicide rate for veteransis way too high.
And if we go out of our way tojack it up with stress even
more, how is that serving theveterans?
So that's why to me it's it's apersonal goal to at least
reduce that stress load.
(11:07):
The first thing we do is wehave them call up and submit an
intent to file, which hands themone year, one year to figure
out the rest of it.
This isn't the longer you take,the the less money you're gonna
get paid back.
This isn't a parasitic companysaying, I'll take 30% of your
back pay for what?
(11:29):
For 10 minutes of your work?
How is that fair?
So I would be able to educateand empower not just the
veterans but their families.
Taylor Bauer (11:37):
Yeah, yeah.
We know those like um supportsystems.
Obviously, you're you're notalways just working with an
individual who's kind of anisland, right?
They have folks around them,hopefully.
And and some folks don't, weknow, but for a lot of folks,
they might have friends orfamily who are going to be
heavily involved in the journeyof getting these benefits and
what comes next for them.
And I think involving all ofthem is so crucial.
(11:59):
And one of the things that younote um uh with your business is
that you like to help, and thisis a quote, navigate red tape
without losing themselves in thestress of it all.
And I think that stress, likeyou've like you've you know
aptly pointed out, can be somuch of an additional experience
that they're going through ontop of whatever they're already
(12:21):
experiencing, that unfortunatelywe know can be uh you know the
catalyst for some sort of reallyscary thoughts and episodes.
And it's really important forfolks to be able to get these
things without, I don't know,exacerbating ongoing conditions
or experiences.
Julianne Hansen (12:40):
About that, but we are still paying off 60
years of veterans who are livingthe old VA.
So my Vietnam era veterans whoare still so and rightfully so
angry, bitter, and hurt of thelast 50 years of how they've
been treated.
Why would they trust after 50years of not being able to?
(13:03):
And so I have appreciatedbecause it's not really
anybody's fault in terms ofpeople who are in charge of the
forums.
Right?
I mean, we're all trying to doour best by our veterans, of
course we are.
Taylor Bauer (13:16):
Sure.
Julianne Hansen (13:17):
But it's that that high stress, those high
stakes, you're in that constantpain, whether it's emotional or
physical, and no one does well.
So we need those rabid dogadvocates on our side in terms
of family and friends.
And you know, that was actuallya nickname an ER doctor gave me
when I went in demandinganswers about my husband.
He said, Who's the rabbit dogadvocate?
And I was like, That would beme.
Taylor Bauer (13:38):
Well, there you go.
Add it to your uh list ofcredentials at the end of your
name on your email signature,right?
Julianne Hansen (13:45):
I am most proud of my honorary Marine status.
I did, I did take it.
Taylor Bauer (13:48):
I love that.
Julianne Hansen (13:49):
I love that one.
Taylor Bauer (13:50):
Yeah.
Knowing the way to navigatethese systems for benefits and
things like that is why we, youknow, at CRCC think that every
veteran should have access towork with a certified
rehabilitation counselor, um,because navigating these systems
and having that knowledge toguide clients through benefits
and programs is so vital.
Um, we know some of that hurtthat happens with veterans is if
(14:12):
they have an experience wherethey work with someone who maybe
isn't as helpful as they needthem to be.
And ideally, you know, you wantto put veterans or anybody who
is receiving these sorts ofservices with the best possible
professional who can help them,which, you know, is a certified
rehabilitation counselor.
So what sort of difference doyou feel like your training as a
CRC makes in not only justworking with veterans in
(14:35):
general, but in kind of gettingto be that prime example of
like, these are the servicesyou've deserved all along.
And I'm I'm here to work withyou uh and meet you where you're
at.
Julianne Hansen (14:46):
I think part of what helped me was that my
professional ethics and mypersonal ethics are so in
alignment.
I was raised on Michael Landon.
I tell people that all thetime.
And for the youngest who maynot know, Little House on the
Prairie, Bonanza, all those kindof, you know, do the right
thing.
So I was raised on that.
But part of that comes withjust being able to be present
(15:07):
with the person, right?
I was one of the only peoplefor quite a while that would
assist with military sexualtrauma claims.
And people assume they're alljust women.
Well, no, because the bulk ofthe military is just men.
Um so to be one to establishrapport and be trustworthy and
be approachable as CRC, we'rewe're trained on all of these
(15:30):
things.
We are trained in our oars, weare trained in you know our our
communications style, um, all ofit.
I work best with detoxingparolee homeless marines.
Who knew?
Part of it is, and they've toldme this, I didn't know this
before.
Um, I'm not scary, I'mapproachable, and I'm real with
(15:54):
them.
Veterans, and especially paroleuh detoxing parole marines can
smell BS a mile away.
And if you come in acting likeyou know, they will shut you
down on principle.
I mean, I have no idea what theexperience that you've had as
someone who's been inside.
So let's sit down and sharewhat we know.
(16:14):
It's similar to CRC.
A lot of us have walkeddifferent paths, a lot of us
have disabilities or familymembers with disabilities,
right?
So we've seen things that otherpeople have no concept of.
We just think everybody'sfamily is like that.
No, everybody's family is notlike that.
Same idea with the people whohave been in any kind of
(16:36):
institution or in service.
You know, you have to gain thetrust and the respect, and it
will be returned.
And I think that that as CRC,we know that.
And we appreciate that.
And we bring it and then wehand it right back to them.
Taylor Bauer (16:50):
Yeah, it's it's part of providing ethical
service.
And, you know, as as we know,that code of professional ethics
for CRCs is one of the thingswe hear uh certificates point to
most often as what are theyvalue about their credential.
And it's not only the trainingthat gets them into a position
to pass an exam that says I canprovide ethical services to
this, uh, to this population,but it's really like you said,
(17:11):
it's a mindset and an embodimentof I am going to do the right
thing by this client.
And that means meeting themwhere they are, not pushing um
judgments or um inappropriateassumptions about somebody
before you even get a chance tosit down and find out who they
are.
It's it's also, you know,knowing that you might not know
(17:34):
where your client has beenbefore you're coming, you know,
you're crossing paths, but it'sabout knowing that you have the
skills to get them to where theyneed to be in terms of, you
know, goal setting and achievingthose goals.
And it does not begin withwalking in and telling them, I
have all the answers, I knoweverything about you, let's get
started.
You know, there's a differencebetween being an expert and um
(17:57):
assuming your knowledge is goingto be, you know, just all that
the person needs to trust you.
And I think that trust buildingand that counseling part of a
CRC's training really comes toshine there.
And then as they're navigatingthings like disability, that
that disability training andeducation comes in.
And it's a perfect blending ofof skills and and and knowledge
(18:18):
and all of these differentthings that that folks need,
that I think we just need to seemore CRCs working with with
veterans, with people withdisabilities in general, because
it's such a a unique blend thatno other profession offers.
Julianne Hansen (18:31):
And and that while while you're saying that,
it I flashed on the memory ofhow my business came to be.
The day that I no longer workedas a veteran service officer, I
went to the local coffee housenear um near the base.
So really, there's only eight,six thousand total people in the
(18:52):
county, and more than half ofthem are on base.
You go into the coffee house,of course you're gonna run into
your clients, right?
And uh I sat down and one of myclients said, you know, Miss
Juliana, why are you here?
And I said, Oh, you know, whyaren't you at work?
I said, no longer workingthere.
And he said, Well, why?
And I said, Well, I'm expectedto defend your rights, but not
(19:14):
my own.
And as a person withdisability, filing for you know,
an appropriate desk wasapparently too much to ask.
And so we talked a lot abouthow I needed to give my veterans
what they deserve in a positivelight, and I wasn't uh um
afforded the opportunity to doso.
He looks at me, he slams hishand on the desk and he's all
(19:37):
right, or on the table, he's allright, this is what we're gonna
do.
And he turned into, you know,and I'm like, um, and he's and
he started mapping it out.
We're gonna do an onlinebusiness, we're gonna do this,
we're gonna do that.
And he mapped it all out, andI'm still sitting there in
shock.
And he I looked at him, I go,Why are you doing this?
Why are you helping right now?
(19:58):
And he said, You don't rememberthe first time we met.
And I said, No.
And he said, I came in, I wasdevastated.
You gave me a roll of toiletpaper instead of Kleenex, you
handed me a bottle of water, Itold you my story, and you
slammed your hand on the deskand you said, All right, this is
what we're gonna do.
Okay, and he goes, and we didit, and it worked.
(20:23):
He goes, and I'm telling you,if we do this, it's gonna work.
But isn't that nice that mylegacy to him, he was able to
flip in a way that made sensefor both of us.
We're not becoming anybodyother than who we are, not you
know, in that moment, thiswasn't about crossing any kind
(20:44):
of weird boundary, we're sittingin a coffee house talking about
how not to cry ourselves todeath.
But it was more about beapproachable from both angles.
You know, be real with yourclients.
If you don't know, don't tellthem you know, don't act like
you know, and they'll hopefullydo the same for you.
But when when you talk topeople and you meet them where
(21:06):
they are, it doesn't matter whoit is.
Doesn't matter, I mean, yeah,like I said earlier, I've been
homeless, uh, I've been a lot ofthings.
But that personal context of Idon't have to be you to know
you, but don't come in knowinglike I know what we're gonna do.
One of the toughest questionsfor people on the CRC is about
(21:28):
um a client needs a piece ofadaptive equipment, I forget how
it goes.
Uh, who do you ask first?
Your supervisor, the equipmentprovider, or your client?
And more of my classmates gotthat wrong.
Will that client even use it?
Do they even want it?
Do they need it?
(21:48):
It's all just be present withthe person.
Taylor Bauer (21:51):
And I do think one of the things that particularly
people who maybe don't have umeducation or training to work
with people with disabilities,um, they they run into this kind
of unforced error of wanting todo things on behalf of an
individual to assist them.
And part of that is that likeadaptive equipment or thinking,
oh, I see this person's in awheelchair.
(22:13):
You know what they could use oryou know what they could need?
I saw this, you know, piece ofequipment that could be huge for
them.
And they won't even necessarilyask, like, oh, is there
anything with being in awheelchair that you're
experiencing difficulty with orthings like you want to
immediately almost offer asolution before you even know
what sort of problems they mightbe experiencing.
Julianne Hansen (22:32):
It sounds out of like a like a discomfort, an
awkward nervousness.
Where does that come from?
Taylor Bauer (22:37):
I I think genuinely it's, and this is
something we've talked a littlebit about with other podcast
guests.
I think most people who don'thave a firsthand experience of
uh being disabled themselves orbeing around disability have a
very uh finite understanding ofwhat disability even is, right?
Um they might I even theexample I used, right, of
(22:57):
someone in a wheelchair, thatpoints to a kind of a
preconceived notion that adisability has to be visible.
So I'm like that, you know,checking myself right now and
saying there are a lot of thingsthat we just kind of fill in
the blanks about disability ifwe don't have a ton of hands-on
experience being around peoplewho are disabled.
And I think when people don'tunderstand things, they get
uncomfortable because they're alittle concerned maybe I don't
(23:20):
know the right thing to say orthe right thing to do.
And they lose this kind ofbasic truth that like disabled
people are people.
You can talk to them like aperson, you know?
And I think it just it freezespeople up when they don't
understand something.
Julianne Hansen (23:33):
And I think that have to speak to us loudly
and over-enunciat-oh, yeah, no.
Taylor Bauer (23:38):
Yeah, you've mentioned on this episode you're
married to a permanentlydisabled veteran.
There's a very uniqueperspective you have as someone
with a disability who's alsomarried to someone with a
disability on top of yourtraining as a CRC.
And I think those livedexperiences are so unique and
provide you with a perspectivewhere you've probably run into
things that other CRCs have not,based on, you know, your
(24:00):
personal life and yourexperience.
And then there's also, youknow, your training and your
education that equip you withthat knowledge that folks who
study other professions don'thave.
So, what sort of perspectivedoes all of this blend to
provide you in terms of justdisability in general or um the
ways in which people receiveservices?
Julianne Hansen (24:20):
Two two things come up for me.
And one's kind of funny, andthe other one's just kind of
sad.
When um when I get frustrated,um the MS processing and the TBI
processing and all kinds ofother joint forces, never mind
the paramenopause, joiningforces, which yes, paramenopause
is a temporary disability.
(24:41):
If I can't figure something outthat should be easy, I hear
myself shout, I have a degree,damn it.
And then I have to laugh.
I have to make myself laughbecause it's really not that
serious.
But part of it also, I was inlike an isolation, like a step
down from ICU uh just over ayear and a half ago.
(25:02):
And they came in, they were allvery serious.
And they said, We're verysorry.
Uh, there's evidence of TBI andit's causing and it started
listing like all these problems.
Well, what they didn't knowabout me is one of my
specialties was cognitivedisabilities.
Another one of my specialtieswas was psychiatric
disabilities.
Um so with the cognitivedisability, he's being very
(25:27):
serious trying to explain this.
And I just started rattling offlike you know, technical terms
and you know, and then I kind oflaughed and he said, Well, have
you had a traumatic braininjury before?
And I said, I've had a list ofthem.
I said, in fact, you know,playing sports in the 80s.
I mean, come on growing up withwithout any protective gear, uh
(25:50):
riding bicycles and doing allthat.
But then just as you know, anadult with neurosurgeries and
things like that, yeah, that'sthat's traumatic brain injury if
you're not careful.
But it wasn't about I'm upsetand you're gonna have to educate
me.
In fact, it gave the specialistsuch a run for his money.
I felt a little bit bad for himbecause he looked like a little
(26:12):
bit thrown when I would ask himquestions.
And finally I paused and Isaid, Well, what's what's what's
what's the eyebrow?
What's going on?
And he goes, These are notquestions I've ever heard from a
patient before.
And part of that to answer yourquestion is in a way, the
education does serve us becauseinstead of sitting there and
having a pity party for myself,I sat and I realized, okay, I
(26:36):
already know where my resourcesare.
I'm surrounded by people whoare now family who already know
how to handle this.
It's just another speed bump.
Um, my mentor, one of mymentors, uh Dr.
Charles Dejenau, who's one ofthe one of the bigger
researchers on in some of thesports injury type TBI, a lot of
(26:58):
cognitive disability research.
To make myself laugh, I'll go,okay, where's Chuck?
You know, where's where's theperson who's gonna talk me down?
Because this is gonna stop me.
And that helps because when Isit with other even the the
young uh interns or somebodythat'll come in and ask a
question about, well, how doesthis work if my client is duly
(27:18):
diagnosed?
I don't understand dualdiagnosis, I don't understand
TBI.
As a person on both sides ofthe desk, it makes it easier to
um approach that answer gentlyfor both of both the provider
and the consumer.
But it makes it a little harderonce in a while because as a
provider and a consumer, well,how come I'm not doing this?
How come it because I'm tired.
(27:38):
I'm tired, boss.
Right, you know, and that hasbeen the nice part about
creating a small business thatyou know we're shifting to
online so that way it canaccommodate everyone's
disability when it needs to,without losing the quality of
care on either end.
Taylor Bauer (27:57):
Right.
Yeah, I think one of the thingsthat I've enjoyed learning uh
just about the disability spacein general from CRCs um is this
idea that, like, you know,experiencing and living with a
disability gives you aperspective that doesn't always
include that, okay, here's whatwe're gonna do to start
navigating this.
Depending on, you know, theresources that they've had
(28:17):
access to or the support systemthey have, there might be um
opportunities out there for themto access services that they
don't even know exist.
And I think that's the thing,being on the marketing side of
CRCC, that uh I'm constantlykind of driven to figure out new
solutions for.
We know that there are peoplewith disabilities in the United
States who do not knowrehabilitation counseling is
(28:41):
there for them.
They they don't know that Voguerehab is a thing.
They don't know that there's anentire profession of folks who
study counseling and disabilityand how those intersect.
And that's the part that umthat I wouldn't say keeps me up
at night, right?
But like in a way, it kind ofdoes, where I'm like, there are
people who could benefit fromthese services, even CRCs I've
talked to, who didn't haveaccess to services as an
(29:01):
individual with a disabilityuntil much later in their life
when they're maybe discoveringthat this is even a profession
they could pursue, and they'vegone through entire decades of
their life without services orresources or things that could
have benefited them.
And that that to me is um aperfect example of why we need
to continue to find ways to getawareness of this profession out
(29:22):
there to as many folks aspossible.
Julianne Hansen (29:24):
That and the the profession and also the
availability of services.
So um, master's program forVogue Rehab, there was a cohort
of 20 that year.
More than five of them havemajor disabilities of some kind,
qualified, and had no ideaabout Vogue Rehab, and they
planned on paying for thatdegree all by themselves.
So I was like, oh no, honey,that's not how we do this.
(29:47):
Look forward to paying itforward later on down the road,
but we're gonna get you help.
Being a resource would havehappened anyway, whether I was a
CRC or not.
And it was happening.
Um, my friends just came.
Me goo short for Google becauseif I didn't know it, I looked
it up and I found out and wemade it work.
So I am goo.
But it's so I mean, especiallyfor the people that are, oh,
(30:10):
what do I want to do?
What do I want to do?
What fires you up?
What gets you out of bed?
Because when it is cold and youdon't feel well, um the animals
still need to eat and you needto still pay rent or mortgage,
the light bill.
We gotta do something thatmakes us connect with who we are
on every level.
(30:31):
And for me, that's what thisfield does, because it really
does allow me to be present withpeople who are awesome in their
own battles.
I've yet to meet a quitter.
I have yet to meet a quitter.
I've seen people that are tiredand burned out, I've seen
people that get overwhelmed andmake poor decisions.
They didn't quit, they just ranout of resources.
(30:52):
They chose the wrong resourceat the end.
Taylor Bauer (30:55):
I think that I think that's a really impactful
thing to kind of sit with toknow that for a lot of the folks
that you work with,particularly with a lot of your
clients being veterans, there'skind of a failure is not an
option, a mentality sometimes.
And there are going to be days,obviously, where you have more
of that fight in you thanothers.
Like you said, being tired is avery natural thing while you're
(31:16):
navigating disability or justbeing alive in general, right?
Um and so I would imagine withwith the work you do and being
someone who naturally gravitatedtowards helping others, that
there's a lot of um fulfillmentwith specifically working with
that veteran community.
Are there aspects or or umtakeaways from working with
(31:36):
veterans that you've felt mostfulfilled by or that have kind
of impacted your outlook on thistype of work?
Julianne Hansen (31:42):
Um, two things that that come to mind with
that.
Getting people to connect withthe idea that you were in
perfect health when you enteredthe service or they would not
have accepted you.
There is a small book on waysto screen you out.
And to have left the serviceand have a list of things wrong
(32:03):
with you doesn't fly well withme.
But what really it's my Vietnamera veterans that really have
have my heart because I mean, uhit's random.
Um, when I was very small,there was a TV show called
Barney Miller, and an actor, MaxGale, played Wojo Hoets, and
Wojo was a Vietnam uh Marine, uhhad just come home because you
(32:26):
figure the show was set startedin 73, right?
So if you figure they'refilming it from 73 to 81, he had
just come home.
Um and he was um he was apeaceful protester as an actor,
he still is, but the characterwas always very hyper aware of
(32:47):
chemical exposure, environmentalpoison, you know, veterans'
rights.
And I'm this teeny kid watchingMASH being all about MASH and
being all about Woe Jehoas andfeeling so passionate, you know,
six years old, five years old,however you, you know, ten years
old, depending.
(33:08):
I raise my hand when I'm 11 andwhat do you want to write your
report about?
The effects of Asian Orange onthe Vietnam War.
Well, I got sent to theprincipal's office because he
thought I was being facetious.
And I'm crying because why areyou here?
I don't know.
I want to write a report on theeffects of Asian Orange in the
(33:30):
Vietnam War.
Um, so here we are over what,40 years later?
30 something?
40 years later.
I'm very bad at math.
We talked about that.
Um and I'm still doing itbecause it does matter.
I currently have an autographedpicture of Max Gail on my desk
that my husband left her theother day.
It's because it has been thatlifelong thing.
(33:55):
No, there's no guarantee ofanything.
I can get hit by a Guinnesstruck as soon as I walk out the
front door.
Wouldn't that be unfortunate?
And why would a Guinness truckbe in Kentucky?
But anyway.
But no one knows what's gonnahappen.
I don't know if I'm gonna wakeup tomorrow.
God forbid I wake up and myhusband's not waking up next to
(34:18):
me.
Does the time that we've hadmake a difference in whatever
condition we're in?
I'm cracking jokes in ICU andgetting in trouble for it
because apparently I coded.
And the nurse the last thing Iclearly remember as I'm fading
was she's screaming, we werejust laughing.
And they physically removed herbecause she was too upset to be
(34:40):
there.
You have to laugh.
You have to make it at least alittle less extreme than it
feels to be able to staycentered.
If the CRCs of the world end upmelting down and not taking
care of themselves, and thepeople with disabilities end up
melting down and not taking careof themselves, and our veterans
come home so turned around thatthey end up using drugs and end
(35:04):
up being in prison and end upbeing homeless just for the fact
that they served and they endedup with enough stuff wrong with
them that they ended up on thewrong path.
If we all keep going down thesereally weird paths and none of
us hold, we're not holding out,you know, we're not giving a
handout, we're giving a hand up.
We have to hold up and hold outhope and be the hope dealers.
Taylor Bauer (35:25):
And and we need more hope dealers, right?
We know, you know, over aquarter of the American
population is lives with adisability.
We know that there are peoplewho, even if they don't
understand rehabilitationcounseling exists as an option.
I can't tell you how many ofthese episodes begin with people
being like, well, someone justrandomly mentioned rehab
counseling as a as a graduateprogram to me.
(35:48):
And I said, Oh, that makessense.
We know people like yourselfgravitate toward professions
where they can make adifference, and like you said,
use use their time to impactothers.
For folks who are listening tothis podcast who might be kind
of considering what they mightbe doing, whether it's their
first career, second career,third, fourth, fifth, um, and
they're curious about making adifference and they're maybe
(36:12):
hearing about rehabilitationcounseling for the first time.
What is it about this work thatyou think is worth pursuing on
a personal level, on aprofessional level?
And uh I guess what would yousay to folks uh knowing full
well we need more CRCs outthere?
Julianne Hansen (36:26):
When people ask me how how exactly did I get
involved, I kind of got involvedbased on a dare because, like I
said, about that uh CRC that Iworked with for so long, I had
lost my ability to walk, talk,and swallow.
I had done all kinds of otherstuff.
I was sitting in his office oneday because I had finished my
uh my bachelor's degree and heleans back in his desk and he
(36:49):
kind of puts his feet up on thecorner of his desk.
He goes, So what do you want todo?
What do you want to be?
And I looked at him and I kindof leaned back and I said, I
want your desk when you retire.
He's like, What?
And I said, I want your job.
I mean, clearly I know how todo your job because we just
spent 20 years together.
(37:10):
I think I figured out what thatlooks like from both sides.
And I was kidding.
Um he says, You want to go tograd school?
And I said, Do I have to?
Yeah.
And I said, I don't know that Ican afford that.
He goes, that wasn't thequestion.
Do you want to go to gradschool?
Because you're gonna need yourCRC.
And the fact that I could writewell was what kind of clenched
(37:36):
the getting permission thingfrom the powers that be.
And I made sure that Igraduated at the top of my class
as a student of the year forthe graduate year because it
made a difference to otherpeople.
Um little kids, veterans.
It's it's an awesome field.
I enjoy it because you're nottrapped in a cubicle unless you
(37:56):
choose to be.
Uh, you are making adifference, even if you do have
cubicle walls, you're stillmaking a difference in someone's
life.
You're not a faceless person ora nameless person whose work
doesn't matter in the end of theday.
I've had parents come to meweeping and thanking me.
And all I did was my job as astate representative for Volk
(38:18):
Rehab.
Um, they had no idea the VolkRehab was a thing.
And when their child was born,the doctor had said they're
never gonna get to go tocollege, they're never gonna
have a real job, and now they'regoing to college and they're
having real jobs.
That has nothing to do with me.
I'm just the person that saidthis way, you know.
But we are the people.
(38:38):
We have to be the ones to putthat on blast.
Taylor Bauer (38:42):
It it's it it's also probably, you know, a a a
fact that if you're gonna gointo this field, you are going
to have to advocate for peoplewho either don't think they need
advocacy or don't think theypotentially deserve it, or that
they have a a right to seek outthese services or something like
that.
Like they uh that's that's spoton.
Julianne Hansen (39:02):
It's an even split sometimes between I don't
need you, I don't want you, andhow dare you say I have a
disability, or I'm not worthy ofspending the money on, or but
the the heartbreaking ones arethe ones that just don't know
yet that they can.
And that's my job to convincethem not only can they, but they
they will if they just do thelittle baby steps.
It doesn't have to be all atonce.
(39:22):
I certainly will be the lastone to tell you to graduate on
time, it's just not gonnahappen.
The the timelines are notrealistic.
It takes what it takes.
Taylor Bauer (39:32):
100%.
Yeah.
And there's uh I think this istrue of anybody, whether they
have a disability or not.
Um, there's so much harm thatcan be inflicted on oneself if
they say, okay, I have to followthis specific path beat for
beat.
And if I don't, I'm somehowbehind or failing.
Oh, I'm a failure.
Julianne Hansen (39:50):
Oh yeah.
I have to be with disponibilitythat I want to be.
I mean, it's not about being anonconformist, it's being true
to you.
Taylor Bauer (39:57):
And that's why I think it's, you know, there are
professions out there that do uhjob placement, vocational work
that don't have thisunderstanding of disability and
counseling.
And I think having an approachof, okay, I can see that you
have this skill or that skill,here's what you should go do,
here's what you'd be good at, isso much less effective than
what CRCs do by showing up andsay, where do you want to be?
(40:20):
What do you want to do?
And then having the ability andthe knowledge, like you said,
to actually get them there andpoint them in that direction.
That's not something, and youknow, all of these professions
are important.
I'm not trying to demeananybody, but that's that missing
link of why CRCs specificallyneed to be the ones who are
working with these folks who, toyour point, might have no
(40:42):
vision for what could be comingin the future because they're
just they're they're seeminglyto themselves, they're out of
options.
They're like, I don't know whatI could do.
I don't think I can work, Idon't think I could be at a job
where I'm happy you'refulfilled.
And CRCs go, okay, well, here'shere's here's the condition
you're experiencing and what weknow about it.
What do you want to do?
Don't tell me what you can'tdo, tell me what you would like
(41:04):
to do.
Julianne Hansen (41:04):
For my we've got your six program, part of my
tagline is it's for the warsfought at home in the battles we
tell no one about, right?
So for for your to go back towhat you just said, it's really
by the numbers, right?
I should be able to do this,this, this, this, and this.
(41:25):
Oh, I should be a doctor, Ishould be, you know, blah, blah,
blah.
But acquired disability wasnever considered.
My interests were neverconsidered.
So to be pigeonholed into,well, it says on that on that
screening, you're interested inthis, and you never ask me.
You know, in in high school, Iwas in ROTC until I was
(41:46):
diagnosed with MS, and then myrecruiter fell off the planet
because, of course, they don'twant you.
But now I get it.
So instead of working as aMarine, I work for the Marine
Corps indirectly for that entiretime.
And that's fine because thatredirects us.
None of us are gonna have, likeyou said, that linear like what
are we gonna do to accommodateour own wishes and our own wants
(42:08):
and represent.
And I think as a field, we do areally good job being not only
the cheerleaders but the bootson the ground who make sure that
people are fully aware of theircapabilities, their capacities,
and their potential.
And for as much as I hate theword potential, it is it's that
drive and that tenacity.
That is the one thing with mypeople, my my clients with
disabilities and my veteransthat tenacity.
(42:30):
We do not quit.
Taylor Bauer (42:32):
Right.
There are a lot of folks whowant to do um this impactful,
important work.
And one of the areas that Iknow you're interested in
professionally is this kind ofconcept of leadership and and
workplace toxicity.
And I'm also very interested inhow, you know, the environments
(42:53):
in which we're in cannegatively impact us to the
point where some of thatpotential that you just
mentioned uh can feel like itfizzles out because you're not
in that environment.
And, you know, CRCs are askedto handle a lot in the work that
they do, and that stress andthat workload and all that comes
with this important work uh canbe exacerbated by leaders or
(43:14):
peers who are not supportingthem, are not uplifting them,
and not being that helpful, youknow, neighbor or friend or
coworker that they deserve.
Um, for leadership inparticular, what are some of the
things that should be theprimary focus for anyone in this
kind of rehabilitationcounseling disability space uh
(43:35):
when it comes to maintainingself-care and then also looking
out for yourself so you don'tlose that passion and you stop
and you don't um start to seeyourself like lose that spark
that you feel for the work youdo?
Julianne Hansen (43:48):
Art is it's a team effort.
Um if if we have, you know, mymy team when I was with uh
California State, I had acoordinator, I had somebody at
the front desk, I had more thanjust me.
And it was my responsibility asthe lead for that subsection to
(44:08):
be aware of everyone's, youknow, current status, not just
on the job, but personally andyou know, emotionally, all of
that, right?
Are we getting burnout?
Are we getting sick fromworking too much?
And it's COVID era, which madeit even harder because you're
supposed to track that fromwherever you are.
Watching the feedback fromabove and how it affects my
(44:30):
team, right?
Being aware of each other.
I have a colleague that wewould go on walks.
We would just take 10 minutesand physically leave the
building and go walk to the, youknow, a good quarter mile each
way, a good half mile, just go.
And that was enough just to goout and not just mentally vomit.
We would just sometimes nottalk about anything, talk about
(44:50):
whatever we watched on TV.
But it was enough to justremember who you are.
Don't forget that the forms arenot the be-all and end all.
The deadlines are not thebe-all and end-all.
And it's up to us to look outfor each other, because some
management teams will just stepright over your corpse and go
hire someone else.
If you're not in at leastsomewhat of a positive
environment that supports yourown self-care, your own ADA
(45:14):
rights.
Um, you know, if you're notgetting the accommodations, if
you are not being paid whatyou're worth, in that you are a
bilingual counselor and you'renot being paid bilingual pay,
have that discussion.
If they're not willing to liftyou up as the prize that you
are, get to walking.
Because that's a valuable assetthat prints.
(45:36):
And I see too many people go,oh, but I have a job.
Yeah, okay.
Talk louder until you get therespect.
And really, it's the same thingwith advocating for our rights
as people with disabilities.
If you are a bilingual employeeand you're not getting
bilingual pay, talk louder.
Taylor Bauer (45:52):
Yeah, speaking, speaking to your own value seems
sometimes to be harder thanspeaking for someone else's
value, right?
Because we know every day.
Yeah, right.
And I would imagine as uh as uhcertified rehabilitation
counselors, it might come morenaturally to advocate for your
clients than it would foryourself, just because you're
(46:12):
always thinking, what can I doto support the clients I'm
working with and the people whoneed my services?
And um, self-care isn't justlike you said, it it's taking
those walks, it's taking thosebraids, it's giving yourself
that humanity and that space tobreathe that you need, but it's
also self-care to say I have askill set and a knowledge that
(46:33):
is worth what it's worth.
And if people aren't seeingthat worth, then you have to
show them that worth, right?
Julianne Hansen (46:39):
Um they were hiring people from the post
office, not to dismiss thepeople from the post office.
unknown (46:45):
Sure.
Julianne Hansen (46:45):
I love my postal workers.
They're they're the elves, theytruly are.
Without them, there are noholidays.
But I have my CRC, I have amaster's degree, I have
background in what we're doing.
The person next to me isactually getting paid more than
I am because they've been theresix months longer than I have,
and they worked with the postoffice before graduating or
(47:06):
after graduating high school.
That's the big background.
So is it my fault for notstepping up and saying, hey, um,
thought the requirement was, ordo I just look for someone
where there's or somewhere wherethere's more value?
Pay attention to really what'sgoing on because who's pulling
that weight in that end would beI'm the one they're coming to
(47:28):
to get the real feedback of whatthey're supposed to do in that
situation.
Just pay attention to your ownhealth and your own well-being,
but also surround yourself withclose enough friends that will
call you on your BS when you'renot doing that.
Taylor Bauer (47:41):
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's it'simpossible to be perfect all the
time, right?
And I think it's good to havepeople around you who are.
Julianne Hansen (47:48):
We're just totally oblivious to it.
Um, I have friends from mygraduate cohort that we all feed
off of each other in that wewill call each other and check
in and then just be like, hey,what about this opportunity for
you?
Or what about thisaccommodation for you?
Would that help?
Because we're not seeing it forourselves.
That and in the last 10 years,the accommodations are automatic
(48:12):
now on our cell phones.
It used to be a thing that youneeded approval for to do speech
to text and to do you know anyof that.
And now it's just everywhere.
The school's providing it foreveryone.
unknown (48:25):
Okay.
Julianne Hansen (48:26):
Yeah, all the dinosaurs that have been around
since be before the ADA passed,um, it's a big deal.
It's pretty cool.
Taylor Bauer (48:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like what like we touched onearlier, it's not always gonna
be every step you take, isn'talways gonna be forward.
And we know that there's somuch more advocacy that needs to
happen for people withdisabilities.
But see seeing that kind ofchange and just how some certain
assistive technologies andthings like that are more
integrated into everyday lifeand the technology we use, those
(48:55):
are those signs where it'slike, okay, we're we're we're
moving forward, even if it's notevery single step, right?
Um, and then, you know,motivation to keep pushing for
those things to become even moreand more commonplace for
people.
Julianne Hansen (49:06):
And to just be aware of opportunities.
If you don't know, just chatGPT or just ask somebody or just
be willing to be open.
That's part of what the We'veGot Your Six program talks about
as well is you know, buddy upwith someone, tag team, because
my interest in your issues maybe a lot deeper than my interest
(49:27):
in my own sometime.
I know I'll fight a bear foryou, but if the bear comes after
me, I'll be like, I yeah.
Taylor Bauer (49:36):
Yeah, I I I give way better advice to others than
I take for myself.
So, um, and I think that's mostof us, right?
We've touched on so manydifferent things, you know, the
the positive aspects of thiswork and you know, the uh the
impact, but also some of the ummore serious things that need
focus too, because we know thatstress and anxiety and
everything that's related towork does occur, and you know,
(49:58):
mitigating those things is soimportant.
Uh, we like to always end thesepodcast episodes on a similar
note, um, talking about, youknow, the way that this work is
very much a calling for people.
And I'm curious what brings youjoy in the work that you do as
a CRC?
Julianne Hansen (50:15):
The aha moment.
The aha moment of whether it'sa family member, whether it's a
kid that believes the bulliesuntil we sit down.
Um, if if it takes me riskingtelling my story and really
getting into the weeds of it tolet somebody see that success
(50:38):
can happen, that that we growup, that we become empowered,
that dreams come true, the ahamoment makes it all worthwhile.
You know, and that's been thegreatest blessing.
It doesn't matter if it's aveteran or a widow or a little
kid.
Um you know, when I tell peoplethat Darth Vader, James Earl
(51:01):
Jones, stuttered until the dayhe died, a severe stutter.
And the reason he enunciated,and I explained that whole story
behind that.
And then I tell them that oh,you're too young for this
reference, I'll have to find newones.
But you know, the Fonz isdyslexic.
You know, all these people, andyou start talking about the
people in recovery and thepeople see now this generation
(51:24):
has is it's less shameful totalk about any of it.
But back in the day, it was itwas it was newsworthy if anybody
had anything wrong with themthat they admitted to.
So I I look at that and I go,okay, what does it?
It's the aha moment that by thetime you get to B50, you're
gonna know exactly who you are,and you're gonna either be just
fine with it, and it's much morefun to be just fine with it.
(51:47):
I don't I don't even to me, itdoesn't matter as MS and TBI and
all this stuff is all gonna beprogressive.
Um, where you are is where youare sometimes.
Make it fun.
So it doesn't all have to beyou know doom and gloom.
It's uh we it's definitely theaha moments.
Taylor Bauer (52:09):
A huge thank you to Julianne for an excellent
conversation on this episode ofInside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
If you have any comments orinsights to share about today's
topic, you can email us atcontact us at
crccertification.com.
You can also find us onFacebook, Instagram, and
LinkedIn by searching CRC Cert.
(52:30):
Like, subscribe, and rate theshow on your favorite podcast
platform, including Spotify,Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you're listening to us today.
If you have an idea for afuture episode of the show, or
you want to come on and tell usabout the work you do as a
certified rehabilitationcounselor, we'd love for you to
get in touch.
Thanks for listening to InsideRehabilitation Counseling.
(52:51):
I'm CRCC, Director ofCommunications and Marketing,
Taylor Bauer.
Take care.
Welcome back to Inside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
I'm CRCC Director ofCommunications and Marketing
Taylor Bauer, and I'm excited tobring you another conversation
exploring the art and science ofrehabilitation counseling.
During the week this episode isreleasing, we observe Veterans
Day.
And as we all know, militaryservice and the veteran
community are the bedrock of howrehabilitation counseling came
(00:25):
to be.
Many certified rehabilitationcounselors themselves are
veterans or have close ties tothe veteran community, including
directly working with folks tofind work and navigate the
return to civilian life.
Julianne Hansen is the founderand CEO of Team Hansen Education
and Empowerment, and much ofJulianne's work has been focused
on finding ways to show theveteran community they are
(00:47):
supported.
As a CRC with a disability andspouse to a permanently disabled
veteran, Julianne has a uniqueperspective on the support
necessary to help thispopulation thrive, and it begins
with meeting each person wherethey are.
Please enjoy this insightfulconversation with Julianne.
And I want to start with you,where we start with all of our
(01:12):
guests, which is kind of how didyou become a certified
rehabilitation counselor?
Can you tell me a little bitabout your journey and kind of
when you learned about thisprofession?
Julianne Hansen (01:22):
Thank you for having me, Taylor.
I know it's really importantfor all of us as CRCs to kind of
meet ourselves as individualsbut as professionals so that we
know where our resources are ineach other.
My original introduction to thefield, believe it or not, was
back when the dinosaurs roamedthe earth, uh, I was homeless
(01:43):
for six months.
And one of my counselorsvoluntold me in the program that
I was in that I would sign upfor Vogue Rehab.
And I laughed and I said, Idon't need Voke Rehab.
I don't know what it is, but Iknow I don't need it.
Uh great decision.
I was still very young.
And so um when I did finallyget introduced to it, um, I
(02:04):
worked with uh the CaliforniaState Department of Voke Rehab.
Um and at first I was like,okay, I kind of get it, but I'm
still not really clicking.
Um and then about nine monthsor so later, my vocal rehab
counselor was reassigned.
And I I was devastated.
Now, mind you, five minutes agoI didn't know what Voke Rehab
(02:25):
was.
But apparently in that ninemonths, I was heavily invested.
The blessing was that my vocalrehab counselor that was
assigned at that point and Iworked together across the span
of almost 20 years.
Um, every time I reached thegoal and I was about to become
employed, I mean likemid-interview for jobs level of
(02:46):
about to become employed, Iwould be hit with you know an
episode of MS.
I would land in my wheelchairfor a year and a half with no
voice and no swallow and aquestionable ability to walk.
And so every time there was,oh, we're gonna, we're gonna hit
this goal, there's gonna beemployment, there'd be something
(03:06):
else to kind of sidetrack it.
And after a while, it was okay,I have to make a decision
because clearly I have enoughdisability in different ways
that I could just sit back andgo, you know what, the world's a
horrible place.
I'm not doing this anymore.
I every time I do it, I fail,forget it, I'm not gonna do it.
But something in me was like,you know, that's not you.
(03:28):
You need to stop it, you'llfigure it out.
And I realized that the acronymfor hope is Hold on Pain Ends.
And that my book, RehabCounselor, and the counselors I
was working with, occupationaltherapy, physical therapy,
everybody, we're all hopedealers.
And we every day we come towork, we are offering some
(03:49):
glimmer of something better.
And I wanted to be a part ofthat.
I wanted to be a hope dealer,and so that's part of what put
me on the path to become a CRC.
Taylor Bauer (04:01):
I feel like um that that hope element, or even
just that um empowerment andadvocate role that that CRCs
play, and we know otherprofessions as well, can be so
vital because you're right,depending on how many, you know,
no path is linear.
Um, and you're, you know,there's there are gonna be, as
you mentioned, chapters of yourlife where you're feeling like
(04:21):
you're taking maybe more stepsbackwards than forwards.
And that can be a really hardthing to deal with uh mentally,
physically, emotionally,everything.
And um, one of the things wehear a lot from clients who work
with CRCs, beyond just theactual, you know, rehabilitation
counseling skills, is it meantthe world to them to have
someone in their corner who waslike, you know, this is a this
(04:44):
is a marathon, not a sprint.
There are going to be periodsthat are harder than others, but
we are going to staygoal-oriented, right?
And I think hope is part ofthat, right?
The goal of of any sort ofprofessional or personal
aspiration for somebody is to isto hope that you're going to
get to that place you want toget to.
And and and now you're doingthat work um and impacting so
(05:05):
many.
You are the founder and CEO ofTeam Hansen Education and
Empowerment LLC.
Um, can you tell me a littlebit about your business and kind
of what drove you to start it,as well as some of the programs
and workshops that you offer?
Julianne Hansen (05:18):
So, Team Hansen, um, we put a stop to it
for a minute.
We are reframing as we'verelocated across the country to
get better VA healthcare for myhusband.
So at the moment, Team HansenEducation and Empowerment, uh,
we have we're developing furtherfor an online audience what I
call the We've Got Your Sixprogram.
And it's six elements of don'thate the play, hate the game.
(05:42):
Understand if you areaccommodating at school or
trying to get through a VAclaim, there's a process and
it's not personal, it'sbusiness.
It feels personal.
Oh, trust me.
I'm sure.
And it will feel even morepersonal before it's done.
But that level of self-carebaseline of healthcare
education.
(06:02):
You know, if you ask an elderlyveteran, well, do you have high
blood pressure?
Well, yeah, I have high bloodpressure.
But the PACT Act sayshypertension.
Well, if they're not calling ithypertension, their automatic
answer is no, I don't havehypertension.
Okay.
Do you have a heart problem?
Well, yes.
Do you have ischemic heartdisease?
No.
Okay.
What kind of heart problem doyou have?
(06:23):
The way they understand it,they're almost like
automatically talking themselvesout of it because, well, that's
not for me.
So that's what we love to do,including students with
disabilities, including veteransand their families, is reframe
the work.
Reframe the work, the what Icall worksheets because they're
not just technical forms.
(06:43):
We're not filling it out foryou.
We are educating you on past acertain era of service.
Your VA number is your socialsecurity number.
You know, little things likethat.
The Vietnam era veteran is notjust were you boots on the
ground in Vietnam?
We don't want stolen valor, butwe want some respect for having
(07:06):
served where we were when wewere there.
A lot of our younger kids, ouryounger uh veterans right now
don't recognize, don't process.
If they serve post-2001 topresent, this and their boots
were on the ground outside ofthe US, they serve in a war
zone.
Taylor Bauer (07:22):
Right.
Julianne Hansen (07:23):
So when the box asks, have you served in a war
zone?
Well, no.
Why?
Because nothing blew up infront of you.
And so we talk about that.
And we talk about the moralinjury.
We talk about coming home toadjustment disorder and not
having any concept of socialconstruct outside of the base.
(07:47):
Not that we don't know how tohandle ourselves, of course we
do.
But little things like on timeis late, well, you better know
it.
But a lot of people who havenever served in the military,
20, 30 minutes is nothing.
We work on making it less of apersonal affront and more of an
empowered presence.
(08:08):
You know, we don't have tofight it every inch of the way.
Taylor Bauer (08:12):
Yeah, and that that's so important.
I think the intricacy of all ofthese systems, which can be
life-changing for folks toaccess all of the benefits that
they've earned through service,can be so overwhelming.
And I think having a a CRC oran organization like yours kind
of there to say, like, like yousaid, we've got your sets, you
know, these are complex systemsthat we are not only going to,
(08:36):
you know, work with you onnavigating, but I like what you
said about self-empowerment andnot filling out forms on behalf
of someone.
So they're not gaining insightinto why certain things are
organized the way they are.
And even if, you know, evenafter they understand it, if
they're like, still doesn'treally make a whole lot of
sense.
Like you said, it's, it's,it's, it's, don't hate the
player, hate the game.
This is how it's set up rightnow.
(08:57):
So how do you navigate it inthe way that's going to work for
you?
And um, that doesn't mean thatthere still aren't hurdles, but
the more you understand wherethose hurdles are and how to
give the answers that they'relooking for, that's just a lot
to take in.
And I think it's so vital thatCRCs work with veterans because
this is all so, to me, assomeone who hasn't even gone
(09:18):
through it, so overwhelming tohear about.
I can't even imagine if nowit's like my benefits are on the
line, right?
And if I don't understand howto follow the necessary steps, I
might not get access to thosethings that I'm that I've
earned.
And that that is anintimidating thing.
And the funny thing aboutintimidation or feeling
overwhelmed is we know sometimesit our instinct is to kind of
(09:39):
be like, okay, never mind.
I'm not gonna pursue this, I'mnot gonna seek these out.
It seems like too much.
And they could greatly benefitfrom having access to these
services.
So it's so important that youknow, you and other CRCs who
work with the veteran uhcommunity are there to walk them
through this.
Julianne Hansen (09:57):
Part of it as well, and I absolutely I
appreciate your conciseexplanation.
Um, part of it is, for example,a mental health claim.
If we say, Oh, well, I havePTS, well, depending on the
examiner, uh, literally theysaid to my husband, Well, did
you see anyone die in front ofyou?
And he said, No.
He said, then you don't havePTS.
And that person denied theirclaim, denied his claim right
(10:20):
off the bat.
And I'm like, okay, um, that'smy husband, first of all.
Taylor Bauer (10:24):
Right, right.
Julianne Hansen (10:25):
I'm living this.
Uh but on the other side ofthat is instead of filing, I'm,
you know, I'm requestingdisability for PTS.
If you use the words mentalhealth all-inclusive, that
interprets too, I don't reallywant to get into an argument
about what to call it.
I want someone to identifywhat's going on with this person
(10:47):
and assist them, whether that'sthrough paying them and giving
them provisions and services ornot.
The suicide rate for veteransis way too high.
And if we go out of our way tojack it up with stress even
more, how is that serving theveterans?
So that's why to me it's it's apersonal goal to at least
reduce that stress load.
(11:07):
The first thing we do is wehave them call up and submit an
intent to file, which hands themone year, one year to figure
out the rest of it.
This isn't the longer you take,the the less money you're gonna
get paid back.
This isn't a parasitic companysaying, I'll take 30% of your
back pay for what?
(11:29):
For 10 minutes of your work?
How is that fair?
So I would be able to educateand empower not just the
veterans but their families.
Taylor Bauer (11:37):
Yeah, yeah.
We know those like um supportsystems.
Obviously, you're you're notalways just working with an
individual who's kind of anisland, right?
They have folks around them,hopefully.
And and some folks don't, weknow, but for a lot of folks,
they might have friends orfamily who are going to be
heavily involved in the journeyof getting these benefits and
what comes next for them.
And I think involving all ofthem is so crucial.
(11:59):
And one of the things that younote um uh with your business is
that you like to help, and thisis a quote, navigate red tape
without losing themselves in thestress of it all.
And I think that stress, likeyou've like you've you know
aptly pointed out, can be somuch of an additional experience
that they're going through ontop of whatever they're already
(12:21):
experiencing, that unfortunatelywe know can be uh you know the
catalyst for some sort of reallyscary thoughts and episodes.
And it's really important forfolks to be able to get these
things without, I don't know,exacerbating ongoing conditions
or experiences.
Julianne Hansen (12:40):
About that, but we are still paying off 60
years of veterans who are livingthe old VA.
So my Vietnam era veterans whoare still so and rightfully so
angry, bitter, and hurt of thelast 50 years of how they've
been treated.
Why would they trust after 50years of not being able to?
(13:03):
And so I have appreciatedbecause it's not really
anybody's fault in terms ofpeople who are in charge of the
forums.
Right?
I mean, we're all trying to doour best by our veterans, of
course we are.
Taylor Bauer (13:16):
Sure.
Julianne Hansen (13:17):
But it's that that high stress, those high
stakes, you're in that constantpain, whether it's emotional or
physical, and no one does well.
So we need those rabid dogadvocates on our side in terms
of family and friends.
And you know, that was actuallya nickname an ER doctor gave me
when I went in demandinganswers about my husband.
He said, Who's the rabbit dogadvocate?
And I was like, That would beme.
Taylor Bauer (13:38):
Well, there you go.
Add it to your uh list ofcredentials at the end of your
name on your email signature,right?
Julianne Hansen (13:45):
I am most proud of my honorary Marine status.
I did, I did take it.
Taylor Bauer (13:48):
I love that.
Julianne Hansen (13:49):
I love that one.
Taylor Bauer (13:50):
Yeah.
Knowing the way to navigatethese systems for benefits and
things like that is why we, youknow, at CRCC think that every
veteran should have access towork with a certified
rehabilitation counselor, um,because navigating these systems
and having that knowledge toguide clients through benefits
and programs is so vital.
Um, we know some of that hurtthat happens with veterans is if
(14:12):
they have an experience wherethey work with someone who maybe
isn't as helpful as they needthem to be.
And ideally, you know, you wantto put veterans or anybody who
is receiving these sorts ofservices with the best possible
professional who can help them,which, you know, is a certified
rehabilitation counselor.
So what sort of difference doyou feel like your training as a
CRC makes in not only justworking with veterans in
(14:35):
general, but in kind of gettingto be that prime example of
like, these are the servicesyou've deserved all along.
And I'm I'm here to work withyou uh and meet you where you're
at.
Julianne Hansen (14:46):
I think part of what helped me was that my
professional ethics and mypersonal ethics are so in
alignment.
I was raised on Michael Landon.
I tell people that all thetime.
And for the youngest who maynot know, Little House on the
Prairie, Bonanza, all those kindof, you know, do the right
thing.
So I was raised on that.
But part of that comes withjust being able to be present
(15:07):
with the person, right?
I was one of the only peoplefor quite a while that would
assist with military sexualtrauma claims.
And people assume they're alljust women.
Well, no, because the bulk ofthe military is just men.
Um so to be one to establishrapport and be trustworthy and
be approachable as CRC, we'rewe're trained on all of these
(15:30):
things.
We are trained in our oars, weare trained in you know our our
communications style, um, all ofit.
I work best with detoxingparolee homeless marines.
Who knew?
Part of it is, and they've toldme this, I didn't know this
before.
Um, I'm not scary, I'mapproachable, and I'm real with
(15:54):
them.
Veterans, and especially paroleuh detoxing parole marines can
smell BS a mile away.
And if you come in acting likeyou know, they will shut you
down on principle.
I mean, I have no idea what theexperience that you've had as
someone who's been inside.
So let's sit down and sharewhat we know.
(16:14):
It's similar to CRC.
A lot of us have walkeddifferent paths, a lot of us
have disabilities or familymembers with disabilities,
right?
So we've seen things that otherpeople have no concept of.
We just think everybody'sfamily is like that.
No, everybody's family is notlike that.
Same idea with the people whohave been in any kind of
(16:36):
institution or in service.
You know, you have to gain thetrust and the respect, and it
will be returned.
And I think that that as CRC,we know that.
And we appreciate that.
And we bring it and then wehand it right back to them.
Taylor Bauer (16:50):
Yeah, it's it's part of providing ethical
service.
And, you know, as as we know,that code of professional ethics
for CRCs is one of the thingswe hear uh certificates point to
most often as what are theyvalue about their credential.
And it's not only the trainingthat gets them into a position
to pass an exam that says I canprovide ethical services to
this, uh, to this population,but it's really like you said,
(17:11):
it's a mindset and an embodimentof I am going to do the right
thing by this client.
And that means meeting themwhere they are, not pushing um
judgments or um inappropriateassumptions about somebody
before you even get a chance tosit down and find out who they
are.
It's it's also, you know,knowing that you might not know
(17:34):
where your client has beenbefore you're coming, you know,
you're crossing paths, but it'sabout knowing that you have the
skills to get them to where theyneed to be in terms of, you
know, goal setting and achievingthose goals.
And it does not begin withwalking in and telling them, I
have all the answers, I knoweverything about you, let's get
started.
You know, there's a differencebetween being an expert and um
(17:57):
assuming your knowledge is goingto be, you know, just all that
the person needs to trust you.
And I think that trust buildingand that counseling part of a
CRC's training really comes toshine there.
And then as they're navigatingthings like disability, that
that disability training andeducation comes in.
And it's a perfect blending ofof skills and and and knowledge
(18:18):
and all of these differentthings that that folks need,
that I think we just need to seemore CRCs working with with
veterans, with people withdisabilities in general, because
it's such a a unique blend thatno other profession offers.
Julianne Hansen (18:31):
And and that while while you're saying that,
it I flashed on the memory ofhow my business came to be.
The day that I no longer workedas a veteran service officer, I
went to the local coffee housenear um near the base.
So really, there's only eight,six thousand total people in the
(18:52):
county, and more than half ofthem are on base.
You go into the coffee house,of course you're gonna run into
your clients, right?
And uh I sat down and one of myclients said, you know, Miss
Juliana, why are you here?
And I said, Oh, you know, whyaren't you at work?
I said, no longer workingthere.
And he said, Well, why?
And I said, Well, I'm expectedto defend your rights, but not
(19:14):
my own.
And as a person withdisability, filing for you know,
an appropriate desk wasapparently too much to ask.
And so we talked a lot abouthow I needed to give my veterans
what they deserve in a positivelight, and I wasn't uh um
afforded the opportunity to doso.
He looks at me, he slams hishand on the desk and he's all
(19:37):
right, or on the table, he's allright, this is what we're gonna
do.
And he turned into, you know,and I'm like, um, and he's and
he started mapping it out.
We're gonna do an onlinebusiness, we're gonna do this,
we're gonna do that.
And he mapped it all out, andI'm still sitting there in
shock.
And he I looked at him, I go,Why are you doing this?
Why are you helping right now?
(19:58):
And he said, You don't rememberthe first time we met.
And I said, No.
And he said, I came in, I wasdevastated.
You gave me a roll of toiletpaper instead of Kleenex, you
handed me a bottle of water, Itold you my story, and you
slammed your hand on the deskand you said, All right, this is
what we're gonna do.
Okay, and he goes, and we didit, and it worked.
(20:23):
He goes, and I'm telling you,if we do this, it's gonna work.
But isn't that nice that mylegacy to him, he was able to
flip in a way that made sensefor both of us.
We're not becoming anybodyother than who we are, not you
know, in that moment, thiswasn't about crossing any kind
(20:44):
of weird boundary, we're sittingin a coffee house talking about
how not to cry ourselves todeath.
But it was more about beapproachable from both angles.
You know, be real with yourclients.
If you don't know, don't tellthem you know, don't act like
you know, and they'll hopefullydo the same for you.
But when when you talk topeople and you meet them where
(21:06):
they are, it doesn't matter whoit is.
Doesn't matter, I mean, yeah,like I said earlier, I've been
homeless, uh, I've been a lot ofthings.
But that personal context of Idon't have to be you to know
you, but don't come in knowinglike I know what we're gonna do.
One of the toughest questionsfor people on the CRC is about
(21:28):
um a client needs a piece ofadaptive equipment, I forget how
it goes.
Uh, who do you ask first?
Your supervisor, the equipmentprovider, or your client?
And more of my classmates gotthat wrong.
Will that client even use it?
Do they even want it?
Do they need it?
(21:48):
It's all just be present withthe person.
Taylor Bauer (21:51):
And I do think one of the things that particularly
people who maybe don't have umeducation or training to work
with people with disabilities,um, they they run into this kind
of unforced error of wanting todo things on behalf of an
individual to assist them.
And part of that is that likeadaptive equipment or thinking,
oh, I see this person's in awheelchair.
(22:13):
You know what they could use oryou know what they could need?
I saw this, you know, piece ofequipment that could be huge for
them.
And they won't even necessarilyask, like, oh, is there
anything with being in awheelchair that you're
experiencing difficulty with orthings like you want to
immediately almost offer asolution before you even know
what sort of problems they mightbe experiencing.
Julianne Hansen (22:32):
It sounds out of like a like a discomfort, an
awkward nervousness.
Where does that come from?
Taylor Bauer (22:37):
I I think genuinely it's, and this is
something we've talked a littlebit about with other podcast
guests.
I think most people who don'thave a firsthand experience of
uh being disabled themselves orbeing around disability have a
very uh finite understanding ofwhat disability even is, right?
Um they might I even theexample I used, right, of
(22:57):
someone in a wheelchair, thatpoints to a kind of a
preconceived notion that adisability has to be visible.
So I'm like that, you know,checking myself right now and
saying there are a lot of thingsthat we just kind of fill in
the blanks about disability ifwe don't have a ton of hands-on
experience being around peoplewho are disabled.
And I think when people don'tunderstand things, they get
uncomfortable because they're alittle concerned maybe I don't
(23:20):
know the right thing to say orthe right thing to do.
And they lose this kind ofbasic truth that like disabled
people are people.
You can talk to them like aperson, you know?
And I think it just it freezespeople up when they don't
understand something.
Julianne Hansen (23:33):
And I think that have to speak to us loudly
and over-enunciat-oh, yeah, no.
Taylor Bauer (23:38):
Yeah, you've mentioned on this episode you're
married to a permanentlydisabled veteran.
There's a very uniqueperspective you have as someone
with a disability who's alsomarried to someone with a
disability on top of yourtraining as a CRC.
And I think those livedexperiences are so unique and
provide you with a perspectivewhere you've probably run into
things that other CRCs have not,based on, you know, your
(24:00):
personal life and yourexperience.
And then there's also, youknow, your training and your
education that equip you withthat knowledge that folks who
study other professions don'thave.
So, what sort of perspectivedoes all of this blend to
provide you in terms of justdisability in general or um the
ways in which people receiveservices?
Julianne Hansen (24:20):
Two two things come up for me.
And one's kind of funny, andthe other one's just kind of
sad.
When um when I get frustrated,um the MS processing and the TBI
processing and all kinds ofother joint forces, never mind
the paramenopause, joiningforces, which yes, paramenopause
is a temporary disability.
(24:41):
If I can't figure something outthat should be easy, I hear
myself shout, I have a degree,damn it.
And then I have to laugh.
I have to make myself laughbecause it's really not that
serious.
But part of it also, I was inlike an isolation, like a step
down from ICU uh just over ayear and a half ago.
(25:02):
And they came in, they were allvery serious.
And they said, We're verysorry.
Uh, there's evidence of TBI andit's causing and it started
listing like all these problems.
Well, what they didn't knowabout me is one of my
specialties was cognitivedisabilities.
Another one of my specialtieswas was psychiatric
disabilities.
Um so with the cognitivedisability, he's being very
(25:27):
serious trying to explain this.
And I just started rattling offlike you know, technical terms
and you know, and then I kind oflaughed and he said, Well, have
you had a traumatic braininjury before?
And I said, I've had a list ofthem.
I said, in fact, you know,playing sports in the 80s.
I mean, come on growing up withwithout any protective gear, uh
(25:50):
riding bicycles and doing allthat.
But then just as you know, anadult with neurosurgeries and
things like that, yeah, that'sthat's traumatic brain injury if
you're not careful.
But it wasn't about I'm upsetand you're gonna have to educate
me.
In fact, it gave the specialistsuch a run for his money.
I felt a little bit bad for himbecause he looked like a little
(26:12):
bit thrown when I would ask himquestions.
And finally I paused and Isaid, Well, what's what's what's
what's the eyebrow?
What's going on?
And he goes, These are notquestions I've ever heard from a
patient before.
And part of that to answer yourquestion is in a way, the
education does serve us becauseinstead of sitting there and
having a pity party for myself,I sat and I realized, okay, I
(26:36):
already know where my resourcesare.
I'm surrounded by people whoare now family who already know
how to handle this.
It's just another speed bump.
Um, my mentor, one of mymentors, uh Dr.
Charles Dejenau, who's one ofthe one of the bigger
researchers on in some of thesports injury type TBI, a lot of
(26:58):
cognitive disability research.
To make myself laugh, I'll go,okay, where's Chuck?
You know, where's where's theperson who's gonna talk me down?
Because this is gonna stop me.
And that helps because when Isit with other even the the
young uh interns or somebodythat'll come in and ask a
question about, well, how doesthis work if my client is duly
(27:18):
diagnosed?
I don't understand dualdiagnosis, I don't understand
TBI.
As a person on both sides ofthe desk, it makes it easier to
um approach that answer gentlyfor both of both the provider
and the consumer.
But it makes it a little harderonce in a while because as a
provider and a consumer, well,how come I'm not doing this?
How come it because I'm tired.
(27:38):
I'm tired, boss.
Right, you know, and that hasbeen the nice part about
creating a small business thatyou know we're shifting to
online so that way it canaccommodate everyone's
disability when it needs to,without losing the quality of
care on either end.
Taylor Bauer (27:57):
Right.
Yeah, I think one of the thingsthat I've enjoyed learning uh
just about the disability spacein general from CRCs um is this
idea that, like, you know,experiencing and living with a
disability gives you aperspective that doesn't always
include that, okay, here's whatwe're gonna do to start
navigating this.
Depending on, you know, theresources that they've had
(28:17):
access to or the support systemthey have, there might be um
opportunities out there for themto access services that they
don't even know exist.
And I think that's the thing,being on the marketing side of
CRCC, that uh I'm constantlykind of driven to figure out new
solutions for.
We know that there are peoplewith disabilities in the United
States who do not knowrehabilitation counseling is
(28:41):
there for them.
They they don't know that Voguerehab is a thing.
They don't know that there's anentire profession of folks who
study counseling and disabilityand how those intersect.
And that's the part that umthat I wouldn't say keeps me up
at night, right?
But like in a way, it kind ofdoes, where I'm like, there are
people who could benefit fromthese services, even CRCs I've
talked to, who didn't haveaccess to services as an
(29:01):
individual with a disabilityuntil much later in their life
when they're maybe discoveringthat this is even a profession
they could pursue, and they'vegone through entire decades of
their life without services orresources or things that could
have benefited them.
And that that to me is um aperfect example of why we need
to continue to find ways to getawareness of this profession out
(29:22):
there to as many folks aspossible.
Julianne Hansen (29:24):
That and the the profession and also the
availability of services.
So um, master's program forVogue Rehab, there was a cohort
of 20 that year.
More than five of them havemajor disabilities of some kind,
qualified, and had no ideaabout Vogue Rehab, and they
planned on paying for thatdegree all by themselves.
So I was like, oh no, honey,that's not how we do this.
(29:47):
Look forward to paying itforward later on down the road,
but we're gonna get you help.
Being a resource would havehappened anyway, whether I was a
CRC or not.
And it was happening.
Um, my friends just came.
Me goo short for Google becauseif I didn't know it, I looked
it up and I found out and wemade it work.
So I am goo.
But it's so I mean, especiallyfor the people that are, oh,
(30:10):
what do I want to do?
What do I want to do?
What fires you up?
What gets you out of bed?
Because when it is cold and youdon't feel well, um the animals
still need to eat and you needto still pay rent or mortgage,
the light bill.
We gotta do something thatmakes us connect with who we are
on every level.
(30:31):
And for me, that's what thisfield does, because it really
does allow me to be present withpeople who are awesome in their
own battles.
I've yet to meet a quitter.
I have yet to meet a quitter.
I've seen people that are tiredand burned out, I've seen
people that get overwhelmed andmake poor decisions.
They didn't quit, they just ranout of resources.
(30:52):
They chose the wrong resourceat the end.
Taylor Bauer (30:55):
I think that I think that's a really impactful
thing to kind of sit with toknow that for a lot of the folks
that you work with,particularly with a lot of your
clients being veterans, there'skind of a failure is not an
option, a mentality sometimes.
And there are going to be days,obviously, where you have more
of that fight in you thanothers.
Like you said, being tired is avery natural thing while you're
(31:16):
navigating disability or justbeing alive in general, right?
Um and so I would imagine withwith the work you do and being
someone who naturally gravitatedtowards helping others, that
there's a lot of um fulfillmentwith specifically working with
that veteran community.
Are there aspects or or umtakeaways from working with
(31:36):
veterans that you've felt mostfulfilled by or that have kind
of impacted your outlook on thistype of work?
Julianne Hansen (31:42):
Um, two things that that come to mind with
that.
Getting people to connect withthe idea that you were in
perfect health when you enteredthe service or they would not
have accepted you.
There is a small book on waysto screen you out.
And to have left the serviceand have a list of things wrong
(32:03):
with you doesn't fly well withme.
But what really it's my Vietnamera veterans that really have
have my heart because I mean, uhit's random.
Um, when I was very small,there was a TV show called
Barney Miller, and an actor, MaxGale, played Wojo Hoets, and
Wojo was a Vietnam uh Marine, uhhad just come home because you
(32:26):
figure the show was set startedin 73, right?
So if you figure they'refilming it from 73 to 81, he had
just come home.
Um and he was um he was apeaceful protester as an actor,
he still is, but the characterwas always very hyper aware of
(32:47):
chemical exposure, environmentalpoison, you know, veterans'
rights.
And I'm this teeny kid watchingMASH being all about MASH and
being all about Woe Jehoas andfeeling so passionate, you know,
six years old, five years old,however you, you know, ten years
old, depending.
(33:08):
I raise my hand when I'm 11 andwhat do you want to write your
report about?
The effects of Asian Orange onthe Vietnam War.
Well, I got sent to theprincipal's office because he
thought I was being facetious.
And I'm crying because why areyou here?
I don't know.
I want to write a report on theeffects of Asian Orange in the
(33:30):
Vietnam War.
Um, so here we are over what,40 years later?
30 something?
40 years later.
I'm very bad at math.
We talked about that.
Um and I'm still doing itbecause it does matter.
I currently have an autographedpicture of Max Gail on my desk
that my husband left her theother day.
It's because it has been thatlifelong thing.
(33:55):
No, there's no guarantee ofanything.
I can get hit by a Guinnesstruck as soon as I walk out the
front door.
Wouldn't that be unfortunate?
And why would a Guinness truckbe in Kentucky?
But anyway.
But no one knows what's gonnahappen.
I don't know if I'm gonna wakeup tomorrow.
God forbid I wake up and myhusband's not waking up next to
(34:18):
me.
Does the time that we've hadmake a difference in whatever
condition we're in?
I'm cracking jokes in ICU andgetting in trouble for it
because apparently I coded.
And the nurse the last thing Iclearly remember as I'm fading
was she's screaming, we werejust laughing.
And they physically removed herbecause she was too upset to be
(34:40):
there.
You have to laugh.
You have to make it at least alittle less extreme than it
feels to be able to staycentered.
If the CRCs of the world end upmelting down and not taking
care of themselves, and thepeople with disabilities end up
melting down and not taking careof themselves, and our veterans
come home so turned around thatthey end up using drugs and end
(35:04):
up being in prison and end upbeing homeless just for the fact
that they served and they endedup with enough stuff wrong with
them that they ended up on thewrong path.
If we all keep going down thesereally weird paths and none of
us hold, we're not holding out,you know, we're not giving a
handout, we're giving a hand up.
We have to hold up and hold outhope and be the hope dealers.
Taylor Bauer (35:25):
And and we need more hope dealers, right?
We know, you know, over aquarter of the American
population is lives with adisability.
We know that there are peoplewho, even if they don't
understand rehabilitationcounseling exists as an option.
I can't tell you how many ofthese episodes begin with people
being like, well, someone justrandomly mentioned rehab
counseling as a as a graduateprogram to me.
(35:48):
And I said, Oh, that makessense.
We know people like yourselfgravitate toward professions
where they can make adifference, and like you said,
use use their time to impactothers.
For folks who are listening tothis podcast who might be kind
of considering what they mightbe doing, whether it's their
first career, second career,third, fourth, fifth, um, and
they're curious about making adifference and they're maybe
(36:12):
hearing about rehabilitationcounseling for the first time.
What is it about this work thatyou think is worth pursuing on
a personal level, on aprofessional level?
And uh I guess what would yousay to folks uh knowing full
well we need more CRCs outthere?
Julianne Hansen (36:26):
When people ask me how how exactly did I get
involved, I kind of got involvedbased on a dare because, like I
said, about that uh CRC that Iworked with for so long, I had
lost my ability to walk, talk,and swallow.
I had done all kinds of otherstuff.
I was sitting in his office oneday because I had finished my
uh my bachelor's degree and heleans back in his desk and he
(36:49):
kind of puts his feet up on thecorner of his desk.
He goes, So what do you want todo?
What do you want to be?
And I looked at him and I kindof leaned back and I said, I
want your desk when you retire.
He's like, What?
And I said, I want your job.
I mean, clearly I know how todo your job because we just
spent 20 years together.
(37:10):
I think I figured out what thatlooks like from both sides.
And I was kidding.
Um he says, You want to go tograd school?
And I said, Do I have to?
Yeah.
And I said, I don't know that Ican afford that.
He goes, that wasn't thequestion.
Do you want to go to gradschool?
Because you're gonna need yourCRC.
And the fact that I could writewell was what kind of clenched
(37:36):
the getting permission thingfrom the powers that be.
And I made sure that Igraduated at the top of my class
as a student of the year forthe graduate year because it
made a difference to otherpeople.
Um little kids, veterans.
It's it's an awesome field.
I enjoy it because you're nottrapped in a cubicle unless you
(37:56):
choose to be.
Uh, you are making adifference, even if you do have
cubicle walls, you're stillmaking a difference in someone's
life.
You're not a faceless person ora nameless person whose work
doesn't matter in the end of theday.
I've had parents come to meweeping and thanking me.
And all I did was my job as astate representative for Volk
(38:18):
Rehab.
Um, they had no idea the VolkRehab was a thing.
And when their child was born,the doctor had said they're
never gonna get to go tocollege, they're never gonna
have a real job, and now they'regoing to college and they're
having real jobs.
That has nothing to do with me.
I'm just the person that saidthis way, you know.
But we are the people.
(38:38):
We have to be the ones to putthat on blast.
Taylor Bauer (38:42):
It it's it it's also probably, you know, a a a
fact that if you're gonna gointo this field, you are going
to have to advocate for peoplewho either don't think they need
advocacy or don't think theypotentially deserve it, or that
they have a a right to seek outthese services or something like
that.
Like they uh that's that's spoton.
Julianne Hansen (39:02):
It's an even split sometimes between I don't
need you, I don't want you, andhow dare you say I have a
disability, or I'm not worthy ofspending the money on, or but
the the heartbreaking ones arethe ones that just don't know
yet that they can.
And that's my job to convincethem not only can they, but they
they will if they just do thelittle baby steps.
It doesn't have to be all atonce.
(39:22):
I certainly will be the lastone to tell you to graduate on
time, it's just not gonnahappen.
The the timelines are notrealistic.
It takes what it takes.
Taylor Bauer (39:32):
100%.
Yeah.
And there's uh I think this istrue of anybody, whether they
have a disability or not.
Um, there's so much harm thatcan be inflicted on oneself if
they say, okay, I have to followthis specific path beat for
beat.
And if I don't, I'm somehowbehind or failing.
Oh, I'm a failure.
Julianne Hansen (39:50):
Oh yeah.
I have to be with disponibilitythat I want to be.
I mean, it's not about being anonconformist, it's being true
to you.
Taylor Bauer (39:57):
And that's why I think it's, you know, there are
professions out there that do uhjob placement, vocational work
that don't have thisunderstanding of disability and
counseling.
And I think having an approachof, okay, I can see that you
have this skill or that skill,here's what you should go do,
here's what you'd be good at, isso much less effective than
what CRCs do by showing up andsay, where do you want to be?
(40:20):
What do you want to do?
And then having the ability andthe knowledge, like you said,
to actually get them there andpoint them in that direction.
That's not something, and youknow, all of these professions
are important.
I'm not trying to demeananybody, but that's that missing
link of why CRCs specificallyneed to be the ones who are
working with these folks who, toyour point, might have no
(40:42):
vision for what could be comingin the future because they're
just they're they're seeminglyto themselves, they're out of
options.
They're like, I don't know whatI could do.
I don't think I can work, Idon't think I could be at a job
where I'm happy you'refulfilled.
And CRCs go, okay, well, here'shere's here's the condition
you're experiencing and what weknow about it.
What do you want to do?
Don't tell me what you can'tdo, tell me what you would like
(41:04):
to do.
Julianne Hansen (41:04):
For my we've got your six program, part of my
tagline is it's for the warsfought at home in the battles we
tell no one about, right?
So for for your to go back towhat you just said, it's really
by the numbers, right?
I should be able to do this,this, this, this, and this.
(41:25):
Oh, I should be a doctor, Ishould be, you know, blah, blah,
blah.
But acquired disability wasnever considered.
My interests were neverconsidered.
So to be pigeonholed into,well, it says on that on that
screening, you're interested inthis, and you never ask me.
You know, in in high school, Iwas in ROTC until I was
(41:46):
diagnosed with MS, and then myrecruiter fell off the planet
because, of course, they don'twant you.
But now I get it.
So instead of working as aMarine, I work for the Marine
Corps indirectly for that entiretime.
And that's fine because thatredirects us.
None of us are gonna have, likeyou said, that linear like what
are we gonna do to accommodateour own wishes and our own wants
(42:08):
and represent.
And I think as a field, we do areally good job being not only
the cheerleaders but the bootson the ground who make sure that
people are fully aware of theircapabilities, their capacities,
and their potential.
And for as much as I hate theword potential, it is it's that
drive and that tenacity.
That is the one thing with mypeople, my my clients with
disabilities and my veteransthat tenacity.
(42:30):
We do not quit.
Taylor Bauer (42:32):
Right.
There are a lot of folks whowant to do um this impactful,
important work.
And one of the areas that Iknow you're interested in
professionally is this kind ofconcept of leadership and and
workplace toxicity.
And I'm also very interested inhow, you know, the environments
(42:53):
in which we're in cannegatively impact us to the
point where some of thatpotential that you just
mentioned uh can feel like itfizzles out because you're not
in that environment.
And, you know, CRCs are askedto handle a lot in the work that
they do, and that stress andthat workload and all that comes
with this important work uh canbe exacerbated by leaders or
(43:14):
peers who are not supportingthem, are not uplifting them,
and not being that helpful, youknow, neighbor or friend or
coworker that they deserve.
Um, for leadership inparticular, what are some of the
things that should be theprimary focus for anyone in this
kind of rehabilitationcounseling disability space uh
(43:35):
when it comes to maintainingself-care and then also looking
out for yourself so you don'tlose that passion and you stop
and you don't um start to seeyourself like lose that spark
that you feel for the work youdo?
Julianne Hansen (43:48):
Art is it's a team effort.
Um if if we have, you know, mymy team when I was with uh
California State, I had acoordinator, I had somebody at
the front desk, I had more thanjust me.
And it was my responsibility asthe lead for that subsection to
(44:08):
be aware of everyone's, youknow, current status, not just
on the job, but personally andyou know, emotionally, all of
that, right?
Are we getting burnout?
Are we getting sick fromworking too much?
And it's COVID era, which madeit even harder because you're
supposed to track that fromwherever you are.
Watching the feedback fromabove and how it affects my
(44:30):
team, right?
Being aware of each other.
I have a colleague that wewould go on walks.
We would just take 10 minutesand physically leave the
building and go walk to the, youknow, a good quarter mile each
way, a good half mile, just go.
And that was enough just to goout and not just mentally vomit.
We would just sometimes nottalk about anything, talk about
(44:50):
whatever we watched on TV.
But it was enough to justremember who you are.
Don't forget that the forms arenot the be-all and end all.
The deadlines are not thebe-all and end-all.
And it's up to us to look outfor each other, because some
management teams will just stepright over your corpse and go
hire someone else.
If you're not in at leastsomewhat of a positive
environment that supports yourown self-care, your own ADA
(45:14):
rights.
Um, you know, if you're notgetting the accommodations, if
you are not being paid whatyou're worth, in that you are a
bilingual counselor and you'renot being paid bilingual pay,
have that discussion.
If they're not willing to liftyou up as the prize that you
are, get to walking.
Because that's a valuable assetthat prints.
(45:36):
And I see too many people go,oh, but I have a job.
Yeah, okay.
Talk louder until you get therespect.
And really, it's the same thingwith advocating for our rights
as people with disabilities.
If you are a bilingual employeeand you're not getting
bilingual pay, talk louder.
Taylor Bauer (45:52):
Yeah, speaking, speaking to your own value seems
sometimes to be harder thanspeaking for someone else's
value, right?
Because we know every day.
Yeah, right.
And I would imagine as uh as uhcertified rehabilitation
counselors, it might come morenaturally to advocate for your
clients than it would foryourself, just because you're
(46:12):
always thinking, what can I doto support the clients I'm
working with and the people whoneed my services?
And um, self-care isn't justlike you said, it it's taking
those walks, it's taking thosebraids, it's giving yourself
that humanity and that space tobreathe that you need, but it's
also self-care to say I have askill set and a knowledge that
(46:33):
is worth what it's worth.
And if people aren't seeingthat worth, then you have to
show them that worth, right?
Julianne Hansen (46:39):
Um they were hiring people from the post
office, not to dismiss thepeople from the post office.
unknown (46:45):
Sure.
Julianne Hansen (46:45):
I love my postal workers.
They're they're the elves, theytruly are.
Without them, there are noholidays.
But I have my CRC, I have amaster's degree, I have
background in what we're doing.
The person next to me isactually getting paid more than
I am because they've been theresix months longer than I have,
and they worked with the postoffice before graduating or
(47:06):
after graduating high school.
That's the big background.
So is it my fault for notstepping up and saying, hey, um,
thought the requirement was, ordo I just look for someone
where there's or somewhere wherethere's more value?
Pay attention to really what'sgoing on because who's pulling
that weight in that end would beI'm the one they're coming to
(47:28):
to get the real feedback of whatthey're supposed to do in that
situation.
Just pay attention to your ownhealth and your own well-being,
but also surround yourself withclose enough friends that will
call you on your BS when you'renot doing that.
Taylor Bauer (47:41):
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's it'simpossible to be perfect all the
time, right?
And I think it's good to havepeople around you who are.
Julianne Hansen (47:48):
We're just totally oblivious to it.
Um, I have friends from mygraduate cohort that we all feed
off of each other in that wewill call each other and check
in and then just be like, hey,what about this opportunity for
you?
Or what about thisaccommodation for you?
Would that help?
Because we're not seeing it forourselves.
That and in the last 10 years,the accommodations are automatic
(48:12):
now on our cell phones.
It used to be a thing that youneeded approval for to do speech
to text and to do you know anyof that.
And now it's just everywhere.
The school's providing it foreveryone.
unknown (48:25):
Okay.
Julianne Hansen (48:26):
Yeah, all the dinosaurs that have been around
since be before the ADA passed,um, it's a big deal.
It's pretty cool.
Taylor Bauer (48:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like what like we touched onearlier, it's not always gonna
be every step you take, isn'talways gonna be forward.
And we know that there's somuch more advocacy that needs to
happen for people withdisabilities.
But see seeing that kind ofchange and just how some certain
assistive technologies andthings like that are more
integrated into everyday lifeand the technology we use, those
(48:55):
are those signs where it'slike, okay, we're we're we're
moving forward, even if it's notevery single step, right?
Um, and then, you know,motivation to keep pushing for
those things to become even moreand more commonplace for
people.
Julianne Hansen (49:06):
And to just be aware of opportunities.
If you don't know, just chatGPT or just ask somebody or just
be willing to be open.
That's part of what the We'veGot Your Six program talks about
as well is you know, buddy upwith someone, tag team, because
my interest in your issues maybe a lot deeper than my interest
(49:27):
in my own sometime.
I know I'll fight a bear foryou, but if the bear comes after
me, I'll be like, I yeah.
Taylor Bauer (49:36):
Yeah, I I I give way better advice to others than
I take for myself.
So, um, and I think that's mostof us, right?
We've touched on so manydifferent things, you know, the
the positive aspects of thiswork and you know, the uh the
impact, but also some of the ummore serious things that need
focus too, because we know thatstress and anxiety and
everything that's related towork does occur, and you know,
(49:58):
mitigating those things is soimportant.
Uh, we like to always end thesepodcast episodes on a similar
note, um, talking about, youknow, the way that this work is
very much a calling for people.
And I'm curious what brings youjoy in the work that you do as
a CRC?
Julianne Hansen (50:15):
The aha moment.
The aha moment of whether it'sa family member, whether it's a
kid that believes the bulliesuntil we sit down.
Um, if if it takes me riskingtelling my story and really
getting into the weeds of it tolet somebody see that success
(50:38):
can happen, that that we growup, that we become empowered,
that dreams come true, the ahamoment makes it all worthwhile.
You know, and that's been thegreatest blessing.
It doesn't matter if it's aveteran or a widow or a little
kid.
Um you know, when I tell peoplethat Darth Vader, James Earl
(51:01):
Jones, stuttered until the dayhe died, a severe stutter.
And the reason he enunciated,and I explained that whole story
behind that.
And then I tell them that oh,you're too young for this
reference, I'll have to find newones.
But you know, the Fonz isdyslexic.
You know, all these people, andyou start talking about the
people in recovery and thepeople see now this generation
(51:24):
has is it's less shameful totalk about any of it.
But back in the day, it was itwas it was newsworthy if anybody
had anything wrong with themthat they admitted to.
So I I look at that and I go,okay, what does it?
It's the aha moment that by thetime you get to B50, you're
gonna know exactly who you are,and you're gonna either be just
fine with it, and it's much morefun to be just fine with it.
(51:47):
I don't I don't even to me, itdoesn't matter as MS and TBI and
all this stuff is all gonna beprogressive.
Um, where you are is where youare sometimes.
Make it fun.
So it doesn't all have to beyou know doom and gloom.
It's uh we it's definitely theaha moments.
Taylor Bauer (52:09):
A huge thank you to Julianne for an excellent
conversation on this episode ofInside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
If you have any comments orinsights to share about today's
topic, you can email us atcontact us at
crccertification.com.
You can also find us onFacebook, Instagram, and
LinkedIn by searching CRC Cert.
(52:30):
Like, subscribe, and rate theshow on your favorite podcast
platform, including Spotify,Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you're listening to us today.
If you have an idea for afuture episode of the show, or
you want to come on and tell usabout the work you do as a
certified rehabilitationcounselor, we'd love for you to
get in touch.
Thanks for listening to InsideRehabilitation Counseling.
(52:51):
I'm CRCC, Director ofCommunications and Marketing,
Taylor Bauer.
Take care.
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