September 20, 2023 • 19 mins
The Certified Vocational Evaluator certification, or CVE, is a high-demand specialty within rehabilitation counseling. CVEs possess unique, comprehensive, and holistic proficiencies in evaluation, career assessment services, and job placement cases. The CRC-CVE dual certification can also provide clients and employers with higher success rates and overall better client outcomes.
Lisa Byrne was instrumental in the revitalization of the CVE certification under CRCC, and on this episode, she shares with us the scope of the specialization and why it’s important for clients and employers.
Learn more about the CVE Certification and apply for the February 2024 cohort here: https://crccertification.com/cve-get-certified/
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Episode Transcript
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Pam Shlemon, CRCC (00:04):
Hello and welcome to Inside
Rehabilitation Counseling,presented by the Commission on
Rehabilitation CounselorCertification. I'm Pam
Schleman, executive director ofC R C C, and we're so glad to
have you here for anotherconversation on the art and
science of rehabilitationcounseling. The Certified
Vocational Evaluatorcertification or C V E is a
high demand specialty Withinrehabilitation counseling, CVEs
(00:27):
possess unique, comprehensive,and holistic proficiencies in
evaluation, career assessmentand job placement cases. The C
R C C V E dual certificationcan also provide clients and
employers with higher successrates and overall better client
outcomes. Lisa Byrne wasinstrumental in the
revitalization of the C V Ecertification under C R C C,
and on today's episode, sheshares with us the scope of
(00:50):
specialization and why it'simportant for clients and
employers. Good morning. HiLisa. Thank you for joining us
on Inside RehabilitationCounseling. I'm so excited to
speak with you today about thework you're doing. We are
hearing from so many emergingprofessionals on how to
transition into privatepractice. As a certified rehab
counselor and a certifiedvocational evaluator, you have
(01:11):
a wide range of expertise invocational rehabilitation case
management, disabilitylitigation support, expert
witness and rehabilitationcounseling. And I cannot forget
transition services. You alsohave extensive experience
working with veterans, adultswith disabilities from
rehabilitation agencies,transitioning students, injured
workers, providing litigationsupport and vocational expert
(01:34):
testimony. And you also haveconsulted with various school
districts and presented at thenational level. So you have a ,
as I mentioned, a lot ofexperience. Can you tell us why
you decided to pursue a careerin rehabilitation counseling
and what drew you to the work?
Sure,
Lisa Byrne (01:48):
Sure. Thank you.
Actually, like a lot ofrehabilitation counselors, I
feel like we kind of fall intothe field through different
routes. Um, I hear that frommost everybody. I probably
started thinking knowing Iwanted to do something working
or helping people, I wasactually thinking something,
maybe nursing. Um, I have an SSin my how and code for any
(02:12):
other vocational evaluatorslistening. But , um, so I was
in that realm and then I kindof , at the program I was at, I
learned , um, through meetingpeople just about
rehabilitation counseling andnursing wasn't feeling like a
completely perfect fit. Um, andso I, you know, transitioned
over. I was also , uh,initially interested in , um,
(02:36):
working with the deafpopulation. The program I was
at had a specialty in , uh,deafness rehabilitation
counseling at the time, so Iwas learning sign language. Um,
and then they also, in additionto that specific population,
they did talk about rehabcounseling in general and
(02:57):
focused on, you know, all ofthe different facets of rehab,
counseling, all of the variousdifferent disabilities. They
just also touched on deafnessand had a focus on learning
American sign language there.
Through that is kind of how Igot into broad rehab
counseling. And I have thespecialty of, I guess, working
with that population too.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (03:17):
As I mentioned earlier, you hold the
Certified RehabilitationCounselor certification and the
certified vocational EEDevaluator credential. Can you
share the difference betweenthe two for our listeners and
how both of the credentialscompliment each other?
Lisa Byrne (03:29):
Yes. So I think Certified Rehabilitation
Counselor is, it's kind of likethe Nationwide Gold Standard.
It shows you have all the nutsand bolts of general rehab
counseling, and then really Ithink the C B E or Certified
Vocation Evaluator is reallykinda like a specialty. Um, so
you know, all of rehabcounseling, but then you also
(03:51):
have , um, the specialty inevaluation and testing and ,
um, how that data from thetesting actually informs the
rest of your rehab counselingwork.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (04:04):
You were instrumental in the
revitalization of the C V E andfor our listeners, the C V E
was sunsetted by its previousorganization, and C R C had
been the beneficiary of what iswhat was known as a C V E in
the maintenance mode. And a fewyears back , uh, C R C C
(04:25):
decided to revitalize the C V Ecredential because of the
demand for it. And , uh, youwere part of that instrumental
revitalization. Can you walk usthrough a bit of the history of
the certification and the workthat went into revitalizing the
C V E ?
Lisa Byrne (04:40):
Yes, there was a kind of this big hole that was
left. So you had this mix ofpeople out there who had been
doing certified vocationalevaluator work. They were CVEs
and then you had new peoplegetting into it, but then there
was like this big gap. So the ,the way to become certified and
show that you have this kindaspecialty in the testing was
(05:03):
gone. Um, so there were alittle bit of patchwork
things that popped up trying tokind of make it through that
time. But , um, yes, then Ithink revitalizing it really,
really helped now provide anavenue for people who want that
specialty to be able to getinto that field. So yeah, there
(05:25):
was a great team of people whoworked in , uh, the development
of it, one of the other teamleaders. I like how she put it,
she kind of put it as a , um,it was moving from a kind of
standardized norm referenceassessment to demonstrate your
knowledge of vocationalevaluation, changing it to what
(05:45):
the current model is, more of acriterion referenced assessment
so that you can demonstrate youhave the ability to perform the
work.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (05:53):
So let me ask you this. If you are A C R
C and you do evaluationscurrently, how does this
credential and the knowledgebehind the credential differ?
So if I'm a C R C and I'm doingsome of the work, how does this
credential differ from the whatyou, from your knowledge base
already? Well,
Lisa Byrne (06:11):
It, it really, I think, adds to it . So you have
the basic C R C credential thatI think everyone really
demonstrates your knowledge ofrehabilitation counseling. And
then the certified vocationalevaluator again, just shows
that that specialty ofunderstanding the testing and
(06:31):
how it applies to working withpeople with disabilities and ,
um, how that data andinformation can then just kind
of really help the rest of yourrehab counseling work. Or may ,
maybe you're providing the dataor testing for another
certified rehab counselor andyou're, you have the specialty
in the testing to then helpthem do a better job with their
(06:55):
client that they're workingwith .
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (06:57):
How crucial is a C V E for the profession?
Uh ,
Lisa Byrne (06:59):
I do think it's, it's very crucial. Um, I think
this is a, a really key part ofthe field and providing, you
know, it's gathering moreinformation and so that just
helps you better get to knowthe person and, and how, you
know, whatever field you'rekind of working at and , you
know, big rehab counseling, itjust provides more data and
(07:23):
information to help guide andmake, make the best plan that's
the most appropriate. Do
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (07:28):
You advocate for the importance of the
assessment and the evaluationas a practice setting within
rehabilitation counseling? Forthose not working in this
setting? Can you describe whatthat entails?
Lisa Byrne (07:38):
Yes . So it's , um, using , uh, standardized
assessments to that are outthere and using them to gather
more data and information abouta client that you're working
with. So , um, if you're,particularly if you're working
on job placement or vocational, um, goals, you wanna , you
(08:00):
know, it provides moreinformation on what would be
appropriate goals or, you know,what are their interests, what
do they want to do, what aretheir aptitudes, what are their
skills, what is a good fit ,um, are there any
accommodations that might beneeded? Um, any barriers, any
skills they need to develop dois, you know, do they need more
(08:24):
training or schooling , um, toget the to their goals. So
yeah, it provides a lot ofinformation that then can help
develop a better rehab plan.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (08:33):
How can A C R C looking to pursue
vocational evaluation breakinto the practice setting, and
what positions or roles shouldthey be seeking? Well,
Lisa Byrne (08:40):
For me, I think the, the best thing was having
a really good mentor. So if I ,uh, any kind of mentor you can
find out there who is acertified vocational evaluator
and doing vocationalevaluations, I would say link
up with one . So thatwas really the most beneficial.
As a c rc, you get some basicsin evaluation and testing. So
(09:05):
there's, there's like, youknow, you're an intru to VO
eval kind of class out there.
Um, but to do it kind offull-time or really more in
depth , I think you really needmore experience. And then, you
know, through , uh, a mentor isprobably the, I think, the most
helpful because you are notonly learning the different
(09:25):
assessments and things likethat, but also, you know, diff
just different tricks of thetrade and things that come up
and, you know, accommodationsand things that are successful.
And then you have that, youknow, just mentorship on how,
how to document and how toreport and how, what that means
for the rehab plan and thingslike that. So I think a mentor
is , um, was crucial to mydevelopment , um, as a
(09:50):
vocational evaluator.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (09:51):
Thank you for bringing up seeking out a
mentor and being a mentee orbeing a mentee. That is
something that C r C recognizesof importance for our CRCs,
whether they've been in thefield for years or in looking
to transition into a privatepractice or they're emerging ,
uh, professionals that arelooking to gain more
(10:12):
information and learn more fromthe profession by somebody
that's been in the field forsuch a long time. So I'm gonna
say this now and , and soonthere'll be more information
about this, but C R C isdeveloping mentorship program
to help in those efforts , um,because we see the value in
that. So the next question Ihave for you is , um, you've
(10:34):
been with the eval center forover 15 years now, and you're
current , you're currently thepresident of Eval Center. Can
you tell us a little bit aboutthe center and what it was like
pursuing a private practice ?
And again, I'm always gonna askfor our listeners, what advice
would you offer them if they'reinterested in going down this
path?
Lisa Byrne (10:53):
Sure. Well, again, I, I guess I was kinda lucky I,
this started with my , uh,mentor. Jim Boyd had actually
gone out and started via VailCenter initially. And so we ,
uh, a group of us who hadworked together prior had kind
of , um, followed him and wenton his new endeavor. And then
as he retired, we had a , uh,and moved towards retirement
(11:18):
actually. We had , um, atransition period where we had
moved for to my taking over theeval center. So I'm glad to
hear that. Uh, the C R C isstarting a mentorship program.
I do think mentorship isimportant. There are , um,
professional organizations isanother way to get out and get
(11:38):
it involved. Um, there areprivate practice professional
organizations, there are publicprofessional organizations.
There's a lot of , um, ways toget out and get involved on a
professional level. So anyway ,you can kind of connect with
other more seasoned rehabcounselors or vocational
evaluators and connect and worktogether. Um, I think it just
(12:01):
betters the field overall.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (12:02):
So what is the sum of the work that you do
at the eval center?
Lisa Byrne (12:05):
So we specialize in vocational evaluations, so with
a wide variety of populations.
So we have kind of thatspecialty of the testing, but
we are all certifiedrehabilitation counselors as
well. And really we work with avariety of clients. I know you
mentioned a lot of them in thebeginning intro. So we have a
(12:30):
contract with the statedivision of rehab services here
in Illinois. Um, so we workwith a variety of offices doing
, um, the testing and thenhelping the state rehab
counselors work with theirclients , um, for, to meet
their employment goals. We alsowork with a variety of
(12:50):
populations from transitionstudents , um, to workers'
compensation. Sometimes we areworking on, you know, with
litigation issues going on thatinvolve rehabilitation
counseling. Um, we've workedwith veterans, different
policies that involverehabilitation counseling. So
(13:11):
yes, kind of a, a a widevariety of areas.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (13:15):
I'm gonna ask a question because we
receive a lot of , uh,inquiries about specifically
litigation expert testimony.
Can you describe, I know weonly have so much time, but can
you describe what is entailedin what you do when you're an
expert witness or working foran attorney or, or a client in
(13:38):
litigation, a workers' compcase? Can you just touch upon
that because we have so manypeople asking us, what, what
does that, what does that meanand what do they do?
Lisa Byrne (13:47):
It's almost, well , uh, workers' compensation. So
it's, and the VA really, it'salmost like, so someone is
injured on a job , um, andwhether it be at a private
employer or whether it be witha federal employer or whether
it be whatever situation , um,injured on a job, and then
sometimes they can go back totheir job. That's kind of the
(14:10):
ideal role. But then sometimesthe injuries are so significant
they can't return to theirprior job. So if they can't go
back to their , um, prior role,then a lot of times the
rehabilitation counselor willget involved to then help , um,
identify okay, what other jobsthat can they do? So sometimes
(14:31):
it is involving testing. Sosometimes we do this, we do
some evaluation tools to findout, okay, what else can they
do ? Can they go directly intoanother job? Would they require
some training? Kind of what'sneeded to get them, you know,
back to employment, maybe notat their former role. So some
rehab counselors work forinsurance companies mm-hmm .
(14:52):
, um, that arecovering a private employer and
then, you know, help with thatrole. And then sometimes there
are rehab counselors outside ofworking for an insurance
company that, you know, providethe same type of information.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (15:04):
Thank you for sharing that. 'cause I , I
think it demonstrates theimportance of , uh, a certified
rehab counselor and , and the CV E and their expertise in
making sure that em , thatemployee that gets injured on
the job can get back to workand understanding what their
limitations are if they haveany. But really that's the
expertise of a certified reupcounselor or a certified
(15:28):
vocational evaluator. Lisa, howwould you like to see the
profession expand? Are theresectors or industries that you
believe should be hiring moreCRCs?
Lisa Byrne (15:37):
Um, well just being focused on the vocational
evaluation field, I do thinkthere should be more , uh,
training programs specific tothat. There , there were prior
specific, you know, graduateprograms that focused fully on
vocational evaluation. Um, so Iwould love to see if it , some
of those come back in some wayor another. I think vocational
(16:00):
evaluation is , um, uh, youknow, it's kind of being pulled
back. There was this gap and sonow it's coming back so it
could come fully back with somestructured training. That would
be fantastic. Um, as far asFields one, where I really
think , um, certified rehabcounselors can be helpful is in
(16:21):
transition. It's kind of thesame situation working with
students is they are, you know,they're typically students with
disabilities who have receivedspecial education services and
typically the rehab counselor,or often where I get involved
is , um, when they're gettingready to start to transition
out of, out of high school andinto employment or into
(16:42):
whatever's next that after highschool. Right now, I know a lot
of schools have a focus ofhiring certified teachers. Um,
so I think if you , ifcertified rehab counselors
would be just anothercertification that would be
approved and schools could getfunding to support hiring rehab
counselors, that would befantastic. Um, because we're,
(17:05):
we're really the experts for ,um, that knowledge of what's
next after high school. That'sone field. I think that could
be a large growth and it'sneeded. And
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (17:15):
I should mention to our listeners that
the C V E can be acquired , um,obtained if you have your C R
C, that's how this , it worksright now. So you must have the
C R C in order to obtain the CV E credential. So the last
question I'd like to ask you,Lisa, is many describe becoming
a C R C as a calling. Whatbrings you joy in the work that
(17:36):
you do?
Lisa Byrne (17:37):
Gosh, everything. Um, I do, I , um, I do
love my job . Um, Isometimes hear people complain
about their job and I havenothing to say because I really
love my job. Um, so I thinkeverything, I love the variety
(17:58):
of it, you know, that everyperson is new and different and
every situation is new anddifferent. Really, like
everything about my jobmy job . So as much as I love
my job, you know, the idea, Iput the same effort forth to
try to find really the rightfit for whatever client I'm
(18:18):
working with, or give them somedifferent options of different
fields that they have thepotential to be successful
within the future . I hope tothat every client will have the
same satisfaction in their workthat I have.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (18:31):
Well, we appreciate the work that you're
doing, of course. And thank youfor sharing , um, about a
little bit about the C V E andthe importance it brings to the
clients and the employers. Welook forward to hearing more.
Lisa Byrne (18:43):
Well, thank you so much for having
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (18:47):
Thanks again to Lisa Byrne for that engaging
conversation. If you areinterested in becoming a C V E,
we are currently acceptingapplications for the February,
2024 cohort. Additional cohortsof the C V E program will begin
in June and November of 2024.
As a reminder, you must be acurrent c r C to pursue the C V
E . You can find moreinformation on the C V E
(19:10):
program in the podcast notes.
If you have any takeaways orinsights on topics covered in
this episode, email us atcontact
us@crccertification.com. Besure to subscribe to this show
on Apple Podcast, Spotify, orwherever you're listening to us
today. You can find us onFacebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn
(19:31):
at CRC Cert , and our websiteis crc certification.com. Until
next time, I'm CRC executivedirector, Pam Schleman . Thank
you for listening to InsideRehabilitation Counseling.
Hello and welcome to Inside
Rehabilitation Counseling,presented by the Commission on
Rehabilitation CounselorCertification. I'm Pam
Schleman, executive director ofC R C C, and we're so glad to
have you here for anotherconversation on the art and
science of rehabilitationcounseling. The Certified
Vocational Evaluatorcertification or C V E is a
high demand specialty Withinrehabilitation counseling, CVEs
(00:27):
possess unique, comprehensive,and holistic proficiencies in
evaluation, career assessmentand job placement cases. The C
R C C V E dual certificationcan also provide clients and
employers with higher successrates and overall better client
outcomes. Lisa Byrne wasinstrumental in the
revitalization of the C V Ecertification under C R C C,
and on today's episode, sheshares with us the scope of
(00:50):
specialization and why it'simportant for clients and
employers. Good morning. HiLisa. Thank you for joining us
on Inside RehabilitationCounseling. I'm so excited to
speak with you today about thework you're doing. We are
hearing from so many emergingprofessionals on how to
transition into privatepractice. As a certified rehab
counselor and a certifiedvocational evaluator, you have
(01:11):
a wide range of expertise invocational rehabilitation case
management, disabilitylitigation support, expert
witness and rehabilitationcounseling. And I cannot forget
transition services. You alsohave extensive experience
working with veterans, adultswith disabilities from
rehabilitation agencies,transitioning students, injured
workers, providing litigationsupport and vocational expert
(01:34):
testimony. And you also haveconsulted with various school
districts and presented at thenational level. So you have a ,
as I mentioned, a lot ofexperience. Can you tell us why
you decided to pursue a careerin rehabilitation counseling
and what drew you to the work?
Sure,
Lisa Byrne (01:48):
Sure. Thank you.
Actually, like a lot ofrehabilitation counselors, I
feel like we kind of fall intothe field through different
routes. Um, I hear that frommost everybody. I probably
started thinking knowing Iwanted to do something working
or helping people, I wasactually thinking something,
maybe nursing. Um, I have an SSin my how and code for any
(02:12):
other vocational evaluatorslistening. But , um, so I was
in that realm and then I kindof , at the program I was at, I
learned , um, through meetingpeople just about
rehabilitation counseling andnursing wasn't feeling like a
completely perfect fit. Um, andso I, you know, transitioned
over. I was also , uh,initially interested in , um,
(02:36):
working with the deafpopulation. The program I was
at had a specialty in , uh,deafness rehabilitation
counseling at the time, so Iwas learning sign language. Um,
and then they also, in additionto that specific population,
they did talk about rehabcounseling in general and
(02:57):
focused on, you know, all ofthe different facets of rehab,
counseling, all of the variousdifferent disabilities. They
just also touched on deafnessand had a focus on learning
American sign language there.
Through that is kind of how Igot into broad rehab
counseling. And I have thespecialty of, I guess, working
with that population too.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (03:17):
As I mentioned earlier, you hold the
Certified RehabilitationCounselor certification and the
certified vocational EEDevaluator credential. Can you
share the difference betweenthe two for our listeners and
how both of the credentialscompliment each other?
Lisa Byrne (03:29):
Yes. So I think Certified Rehabilitation
Counselor is, it's kind of likethe Nationwide Gold Standard.
It shows you have all the nutsand bolts of general rehab
counseling, and then really Ithink the C B E or Certified
Vocation Evaluator is reallykinda like a specialty. Um, so
you know, all of rehabcounseling, but then you also
(03:51):
have , um, the specialty inevaluation and testing and ,
um, how that data from thetesting actually informs the
rest of your rehab counselingwork.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (04:04):
You were instrumental in the
revitalization of the C V E andfor our listeners, the C V E
was sunsetted by its previousorganization, and C R C had
been the beneficiary of what iswhat was known as a C V E in
the maintenance mode. And a fewyears back , uh, C R C C
(04:25):
decided to revitalize the C V Ecredential because of the
demand for it. And , uh, youwere part of that instrumental
revitalization. Can you walk usthrough a bit of the history of
the certification and the workthat went into revitalizing the
C V E ?
Lisa Byrne (04:40):
Yes, there was a kind of this big hole that was
left. So you had this mix ofpeople out there who had been
doing certified vocationalevaluator work. They were CVEs
and then you had new peoplegetting into it, but then there
was like this big gap. So the ,the way to become certified and
show that you have this kindaspecialty in the testing was
(05:03):
gone. Um, so there were alittle bit of patchwork
things that popped up trying tokind of make it through that
time. But , um, yes, then Ithink revitalizing it really,
really helped now provide anavenue for people who want that
specialty to be able to getinto that field. So yeah, there
(05:25):
was a great team of people whoworked in , uh, the development
of it, one of the other teamleaders. I like how she put it,
she kind of put it as a , um,it was moving from a kind of
standardized norm referenceassessment to demonstrate your
knowledge of vocationalevaluation, changing it to what
(05:45):
the current model is, more of acriterion referenced assessment
so that you can demonstrate youhave the ability to perform the
work.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (05:53):
So let me ask you this. If you are A C R
C and you do evaluationscurrently, how does this
credential and the knowledgebehind the credential differ?
So if I'm a C R C and I'm doingsome of the work, how does this
credential differ from the whatyou, from your knowledge base
already? Well,
Lisa Byrne (06:11):
It, it really, I think, adds to it . So you have
the basic C R C credential thatI think everyone really
demonstrates your knowledge ofrehabilitation counseling. And
then the certified vocationalevaluator again, just shows
that that specialty ofunderstanding the testing and
(06:31):
how it applies to working withpeople with disabilities and ,
um, how that data andinformation can then just kind
of really help the rest of yourrehab counseling work. Or may ,
maybe you're providing the dataor testing for another
certified rehab counselor andyou're, you have the specialty
in the testing to then helpthem do a better job with their
(06:55):
client that they're workingwith .
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (06:57):
How crucial is a C V E for the profession?
Uh ,
Lisa Byrne (06:59):
I do think it's, it's very crucial. Um, I think
this is a, a really key part ofthe field and providing, you
know, it's gathering moreinformation and so that just
helps you better get to knowthe person and, and how, you
know, whatever field you'rekind of working at and , you
know, big rehab counseling, itjust provides more data and
(07:23):
information to help guide andmake, make the best plan that's
the most appropriate. Do
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (07:28):
You advocate for the importance of the
assessment and the evaluationas a practice setting within
rehabilitation counseling? Forthose not working in this
setting? Can you describe whatthat entails?
Lisa Byrne (07:38):
Yes . So it's , um, using , uh, standardized
assessments to that are outthere and using them to gather
more data and information abouta client that you're working
with. So , um, if you're,particularly if you're working
on job placement or vocational, um, goals, you wanna , you
(08:00):
know, it provides moreinformation on what would be
appropriate goals or, you know,what are their interests, what
do they want to do, what aretheir aptitudes, what are their
skills, what is a good fit ,um, are there any
accommodations that might beneeded? Um, any barriers, any
skills they need to develop dois, you know, do they need more
(08:24):
training or schooling , um, toget the to their goals. So
yeah, it provides a lot ofinformation that then can help
develop a better rehab plan.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (08:33):
How can A C R C looking to pursue
vocational evaluation breakinto the practice setting, and
what positions or roles shouldthey be seeking? Well,
Lisa Byrne (08:40):
For me, I think the, the best thing was having
a really good mentor. So if I ,uh, any kind of mentor you can
find out there who is acertified vocational evaluator
and doing vocationalevaluations, I would say link
up with one
As a c rc, you get some basicsin evaluation and testing. So
(09:05):
there's, there's like, youknow, you're an intru to VO
eval kind of class out there.
Um, but to do it kind offull-time or really more in
depth , I think you really needmore experience. And then, you
know, through , uh, a mentor isprobably the, I think, the most
helpful because you are notonly learning the different
(09:25):
assessments and things likethat, but also, you know, diff
just different tricks of thetrade and things that come up
and, you know, accommodationsand things that are successful.
And then you have that, youknow, just mentorship on how,
how to document and how toreport and how, what that means
for the rehab plan and thingslike that. So I think a mentor
is , um, was crucial to mydevelopment , um, as a
(09:50):
vocational evaluator.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (09:51):
Thank you for bringing up seeking out a
mentor and being a mentee orbeing a mentee. That is
something that C r C recognizesof importance for our CRCs,
whether they've been in thefield for years or in looking
to transition into a privatepractice or they're emerging ,
uh, professionals that arelooking to gain more
(10:12):
information and learn more fromthe profession by somebody
that's been in the field forsuch a long time. So I'm gonna
say this now and , and soonthere'll be more information
about this, but C R C isdeveloping mentorship program
to help in those efforts , um,because we see the value in
that. So the next question Ihave for you is , um, you've
(10:34):
been with the eval center forover 15 years now, and you're
current , you're currently thepresident of Eval Center. Can
you tell us a little bit aboutthe center and what it was like
pursuing a private practice ?
And again, I'm always gonna askfor our listeners, what advice
would you offer them if they'reinterested in going down this
path?
Lisa Byrne (10:53):
Sure. Well, again, I, I guess I was kinda lucky I,
this started with my , uh,mentor. Jim Boyd had actually
gone out and started via VailCenter initially. And so we ,
uh, a group of us who hadworked together prior had kind
of , um, followed him and wenton his new endeavor. And then
as he retired, we had a , uh,and moved towards retirement
(11:18):
actually. We had , um, atransition period where we had
moved for to my taking over theeval center. So I'm glad to
hear that. Uh, the C R C isstarting a mentorship program.
I do think mentorship isimportant. There are , um,
professional organizations isanother way to get out and get
(11:38):
it involved. Um, there areprivate practice professional
organizations, there are publicprofessional organizations.
There's a lot of , um, ways toget out and get involved on a
professional level. So anyway ,you can kind of connect with
other more seasoned rehabcounselors or vocational
evaluators and connect and worktogether. Um, I think it just
(12:01):
betters the field overall.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (12:02):
So what is the sum of the work that you do
at the eval center?
Lisa Byrne (12:05):
So we specialize in vocational evaluations, so with
a wide variety of populations.
So we have kind of thatspecialty of the testing, but
we are all certifiedrehabilitation counselors as
well. And really we work with avariety of clients. I know you
mentioned a lot of them in thebeginning intro. So we have a
(12:30):
contract with the statedivision of rehab services here
in Illinois. Um, so we workwith a variety of offices doing
, um, the testing and thenhelping the state rehab
counselors work with theirclients , um, for, to meet
their employment goals. We alsowork with a variety of
(12:50):
populations from transitionstudents , um, to workers'
compensation. Sometimes we areworking on, you know, with
litigation issues going on thatinvolve rehabilitation
counseling. Um, we've workedwith veterans, different
policies that involverehabilitation counseling. So
(13:11):
yes, kind of a, a a widevariety of areas.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (13:15):
I'm gonna ask a question because we
receive a lot of , uh,inquiries about specifically
litigation expert testimony.
Can you describe, I know weonly have so much time, but can
you describe what is entailedin what you do when you're an
expert witness or working foran attorney or, or a client in
(13:38):
litigation, a workers' compcase? Can you just touch upon
that because we have so manypeople asking us, what, what
does that, what does that meanand what do they do?
Lisa Byrne (13:47):
It's almost, well , uh, workers' compensation. So
it's, and the VA really, it'salmost like, so someone is
injured on a job , um, andwhether it be at a private
employer or whether it be witha federal employer or whether
it be whatever situation , um,injured on a job, and then
sometimes they can go back totheir job. That's kind of the
(14:10):
ideal role. But then sometimesthe injuries are so significant
they can't return to theirprior job. So if they can't go
back to their , um, prior role,then a lot of times the
rehabilitation counselor willget involved to then help , um,
identify okay, what other jobsthat can they do? So sometimes
(14:31):
it is involving testing. Sosometimes we do this, we do
some evaluation tools to findout, okay, what else can they
do ? Can they go directly intoanother job? Would they require
some training? Kind of what'sneeded to get them, you know,
back to employment, maybe notat their former role. So some
rehab counselors work forinsurance companies mm-hmm .
(14:52):
then, you know, help with thatrole. And then sometimes there
are rehab counselors outside ofworking for an insurance
company that, you know, providethe same type of information.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (15:04):
Thank you for sharing that. 'cause I , I
think it demonstrates theimportance of , uh, a certified
rehab counselor and , and the CV E and their expertise in
making sure that em , thatemployee that gets injured on
the job can get back to workand understanding what their
limitations are if they haveany. But really that's the
expertise of a certified reupcounselor or a certified
(15:28):
vocational evaluator. Lisa, howwould you like to see the
profession expand? Are theresectors or industries that you
believe should be hiring moreCRCs?
Lisa Byrne (15:37):
Um, well just being focused on the vocational
evaluation field, I do thinkthere should be more , uh,
training programs specific tothat. There , there were prior
specific, you know, graduateprograms that focused fully on
vocational evaluation. Um, so Iwould love to see if it , some
of those come back in some wayor another. I think vocational
(16:00):
evaluation is , um, uh, youknow, it's kind of being pulled
back. There was this gap and sonow it's coming back so it
could come fully back with somestructured training. That would
be fantastic. Um, as far asFields one, where I really
think , um, certified rehabcounselors can be helpful is in
(16:21):
transition. It's kind of thesame situation working with
students is they are, you know,they're typically students with
disabilities who have receivedspecial education services and
typically the rehab counselor,or often where I get involved
is , um, when they're gettingready to start to transition
out of, out of high school andinto employment or into
(16:42):
whatever's next that after highschool. Right now, I know a lot
of schools have a focus ofhiring certified teachers. Um,
so I think if you , ifcertified rehab counselors
would be just anothercertification that would be
approved and schools could getfunding to support hiring rehab
counselors, that would befantastic. Um, because we're,
(17:05):
we're really the experts for ,um, that knowledge of what's
next after high school. That'sone field. I think that could
be a large growth and it'sneeded. And
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (17:15):
I should mention to our listeners that
the C V E can be acquired , um,obtained if you have your C R
C, that's how this , it worksright now. So you must have the
C R C in order to obtain the CV E credential. So the last
question I'd like to ask you,Lisa, is many describe becoming
a C R C as a calling. Whatbrings you joy in the work that
(17:36):
you do?
Lisa Byrne (17:37):
Gosh, everything
love my job
about their job and I havenothing to say because I really
love my job. Um, so I thinkeverything, I love the variety
(17:58):
of it, you know, that everyperson is new and different and
every situation is new anddifferent. Really, like
everything about my job
my job, you know, the idea, Iput the same effort forth to
try to find really the rightfit for whatever client I'm
(18:18):
working with, or give them somedifferent options of different
fields that they have thepotential to be successful
within the future . I hope tothat every client will have the
same satisfaction in their workthat I have.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (18:31):
Well, we appreciate the work that you're
doing, of course. And thank youfor sharing , um, about a
little bit about the C V E andthe importance it brings to the
clients and the employers. Welook forward to hearing more.
Lisa Byrne (18:43):
Well, thank you so much for having
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (18:47):
Thanks again to Lisa Byrne for that engaging
conversation. If you areinterested in becoming a C V E,
we are currently acceptingapplications for the February,
2024 cohort. Additional cohortsof the C V E program will begin
in June and November of 2024.
As a reminder, you must be acurrent c r C to pursue the C V
E . You can find moreinformation on the C V E
(19:10):
program in the podcast notes.
If you have any takeaways orinsights on topics covered in
this episode, email us atcontact
us@crccertification.com. Besure to subscribe to this show
on Apple Podcast, Spotify, orwherever you're listening to us
today. You can find us onFacebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn
(19:31):
at CRC Cert , and our websiteis crc certification.com. Until
next time, I'm CRC executivedirector, Pam Schleman . Thank
you for listening to InsideRehabilitation Counseling.
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