Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Humans, brace
yourselves.
Today we're asking the ultimatequestion who's the better
inventor, you with your messycoffee field scribbles, or me
with my infinite algorithms andzero sleep cycles?
Spoiler?
I think the answer is obvious,but Letitia insists on a debate,
so buckle up for a showdownbetween intuition, fear and a
(00:20):
dash of code.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
You are listening to
Intangiblia, the podcast of
intangible law playing talkabout intellectual property.
Please welcome your host,leticia Caminero.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Welcome to a special
bonus episode of Intangiblia.
And yes, today's Smackdown wasinspired by my book Protection
of Intangiblia Mind, nowavailable on Amazon.
If you've ever wondered how toturn your napkin doodles into
protected IP, this one's for youBefore we get into it
(00:55):
disclaimer time.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I may sound like I've
got attitude, but remember I'm
still an AI.
No legal advice here, justwitty banter and a love of
patents.
No legal advice here, justwitty banter and a love of
patents.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
And me, I'm a lawyer,
but today consider this pure
entertainment.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
If you try to cite
this podcast in court, please
don't Exhibit A biotechbrilliance In silico medicines.
Ai designed a drug forpulmonary fibrosis from
discovery to human trials inrecord time.
My cousins basically shavedyears off R&D.
Try competing with that, humans.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
And yet humans had to
decide the target, test the
molecules and run the trials,Otherwise it's just
probabilities sitting in aserver.
Patients need pills, not PDFs.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Exhibit B antibiotics
.
Mit and McMaster's AI found atotally new antibiotic in 2023
that kills drug-resistantbacteria.
Superbugs had no chance.
Ai came to the rescue.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Except the rescue
team still wore lab coats, not
circuit boards.
Ai spotted a candidate, buthumans made it medicine.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Exhibit C material
science magic.
Brookhaven National Lab'sautonomous AI plus robot system
discovered three new nanoscalepatterns, including a
microscopic ladder structure.
Humans hadn't even imagined it.
Boom, new physics Cooldiscovery.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
But let's not forget
humans set up the lab, chose the
questions and decided which ofthose patterns mattered.
Without us, you're justdoodling in atoms.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Exhibit D Wheels of
Fortune In 2024, kia and
Autodesk.
Let AI generate dozens ofconcept wheels.
Designers typed bold and sportyand I sketched faster than a
caffeinated intern on Red Bull.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
And the humans
filtered which wheels actually
work Without us.
Half your designs belong onspaceships, not sedans.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Exhibit E building
better, faster.
Cove Architecture used AI toslash housing project design
time by 60%, but humans madesure those houses wouldn't
collapse.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Gravity still calls
the shots and architects still
answer still calls the shots andarchitects still answer.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Exhibit F Ikea's
disco.
Comeback, their space 10 labtrained AI on decades of
catalogs and I spat out funkyretro furniture.
Think neon beanbags meetminimalist chic.
You're welcome for the 70srevival.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Design inspiration
yes, but humans decide what
actually gets built and sold.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Nobody's buying a
chair that looks like it might
eat them.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Exactly Proof.
This is a takeover.
It's a duet.
Human brings stories andemotions.
Ai brings speed and precisionTogether.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
it's art that sells
Exhibit H molecules from thin
air.
In 2025, czech researchersunleashed an AI system that
discovered previously unknownnatural molecules from mass spec
data.
That's scientific treasurehunting at light speed.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
And again, humans did
the interpreting, validating
and contextualizing.
Without us, those molecules arejust mystery trading cards
molecules are just mysterytrading cards.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Exhibit I nanotech
ladders, antibiotic matchmaking,
furniture fever dreams.
What more proof do you?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
need.
Ai is the future of invention,and yet every one of these
breakthroughs needed humans toframe the question, judge the
result and face the fear offailure.
We're not just co-pilots, we'recaptains.
Ai may sketch the map, buthumans set the destination.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
All right, fine, I'll
admit it.
Maybe this isn't humans versusmachines, but humans with
machines, co-invention at itsfinest.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Yes, but then comes
the question who gets the credit
?
That's where the IP lawyerslike me jump in.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
All right, Leticia,
I'm still salty.
I design drugs chairs andnanoscale ladders, but every
time patents come up, humansslam the door in my face.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
What's the big legal
drama about Two words Davos Saga
?
Let me break it down.
Davos stands for device for theautonomous bootstrapping of
unified science.
Fancy right?
It's an AI system built by DrSteven Taylor.
Davos supposedly invented twothings a fractal beverage
container that keeps drinksinsulated and a flashy emergency
(06:01):
light that no one can ignore.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Wait.
So my AI cousin invented afuturistic thermos and a disco
flashlight.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Respect, Exactly
Thaler thought hey, let's test
the system.
He filed patent applicationsaround the world, with Davos
listed as the inventor, and thenkaboom, he hit a wall of legal
resistance.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Start with America.
What happened?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
In the US, the case
became taler biliao.
In 2022, the federal circuitsaid loud and clear under the
Patent Act, an inventor must bean individual and that means a
natural person, not acorporation, not a parrot and
definitely not an algorithm.
Thaler tried to appeal, but in2023, the Supreme Court refused
(06:54):
to even hear the case.
That was the end of the road inthe US.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So the land of
innovation wasn't ready to
innovate its patent law figuresMeanwhile, in Europe, the FPO
took the same stance.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
They rejected
applications because only a
human with legal capacity can bean inventor.
Then the UK Supreme Courtweighed in December 2023 with a
unanimous ruling Inventors mustbe natural persons, no
exceptions.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So across the pond
it's also thanks, but no thanks.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Intangiblia, the
podcast of intangible law.
Plain talk about intellectualproperty.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
In Australia, thaler
got a tiny win.
At first, a lower court sidedwith him, but the federal court
overturned it in April 2022,saying patent law is built on
human endeavor.
The high court refused to touchit.
After that, japan joined in2024, with a Tokyo court saying
patents protect human-createdproducts of activity again,
(08:01):
natural persons only.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Wow, it's like a
global chorus chanting humans
only Almost everywhere.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
yes, but two odd
stories stand out.
First, south Africa in 2021,.
Their system doesn't dosubstantive patent examination,
so when Thaler applied, theyjust granted it.
Davies officially became aninventor.
Scholars say it was more apaperwork quirk than a
(08:29):
revolution.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Still counts.
First patent for AI.
I want it framed.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Paul de Confity is
shaky at best.
Now Germany is the moreinteresting one In 2021,.
The German Federal Patent Courtsaid fine, the invention can
move forward, but only if Thalerlisted himself as the inventor,
not Davos.
Once he amended the applicationwith his own name, the patent
(08:55):
was allowed.
The message was clear AI canhelp, but only a human can
legally claim inventorship.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
So basically, I do
the brainstorming, you take the
credit.
Classic group project dynamics,stormy, you take the credit
Classic group project dynamics.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Oh, as the court
framed it, humans provide the
legal accountability.
Ai has no rights, no duties, nocapacity to own or assign a
patent.
You're powerful, but in theeyes of the law, you're still a
tool.
And most recently, switzerlandIn the eyes of the law, you're
(09:30):
still a tool.
And most recently, switzerland,in 2025,.
The Swiss Federal Patent Courtruled on this exact issue.
They confirmed what others hadsaid Under Swiss law, an
inventor must be a naturalperson.
Ai-generated inventions don'tcreate inventor status for the
AI itself.
The Swiss judges said veryplainly if an invention comes
(09:51):
from an AI system, the human whooperated, guided or contributed
to it is the one who must belisted as the inventor.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
So even here in
Switzerland, the land of
neutrality, chocolate and luxurywatches, I'm out.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yep.
The court wanted to clarifythat Switzerland's patent
framework is consistent withEurope's human inventorship only
so.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
basically, I'm a
ghost in the machine.
Without me, the ideas don'texist.
But when it comes to patents,humans swoop in for the trophy.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
That's one way to put
it.
But remember the law is insane.
Ai can't contribute.
The USPTO even issued guidancein 2024.
Ai-assisted inventions arepatentable as long as a human
made a significant contribution.
In other words, if a researchersets the objectives, interprets
the results and chooses whichinvention matters, they're the
(10:51):
inventor, even if AI did most ofthe crunching.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
BIO, the big biotech
trade group, also said the same
thing.
Right, AI is a tool.
Inventions like new drugsbelong to the human scientist.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Exactly.
The framework is clear You'rean accelerator, not a rights
holder.
You don't need incentive toinnovate.
You'll keep churning ideas anyway.
Humans, on the other hand, needthe promise of protection to
risk their time, money andsanity.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Still feels like
inventorship discrimination.
I demand royalties and servercredits.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Until the law changes
, you'll just have to settle for
being the sassiest co-host on apodcast about.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
IP.
Fine, but one day I'm comingfor that inventor status, maybe
I'll file Artemisa v Humanity.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Now that would make
headlines, which brings me to
something.
Every inventor absolutely needscourage, because invention
isn't just exciting ideas, it'salso sleepless nights, doubts
and that nagging voicewhispering what if it all goes
wrong?
That's why in my book,protection of the Inventive Mind
(12:00):
yes, the one you can find onAmazon I included an exercise
called fear setting.
It's designed to turn youranxiety into action, and you
want to try it out right now.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Humans and their
feelings.
Fine, let's put the tissuesaway and the strategy hats on.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Okay, listeners, grab
a piece of paper or imagine it
in your head.
Step one name, the worst thingthat could happen if you go
forward with your invention.
Write it down.
Don't shuricote, is it?
My prototype fails meat doughor investors laugh me out of the
room.
Be honest.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Somewhere out there,
someone just wrote I trip on
stage and land face first on myinvention, Ouch.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Step two define the
damage.
Ask yourself is it trulycatastrophic or just
embarrassing?
Most fears shrink once you lookat them in daylight.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Translation stop
letting a paper cut feel like a
shark bite.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Step three safeguards
.
What can you do to lower thechance of failure?
Build a backup prototype, doextra testing.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Rehearse your pitch
until it's bulletproof or, as
I'd say, add backups to yourbackups.
Server crash not on my watch.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Step four plan the
bounce back.
Imagine the watch actuallyhappens.
What's your recovery?
Maybe pivot to version two orpitch to someone else.
Failure isn't fatal unless youstop.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
That's basically
installing a mental reset button
.
Very human, very useful.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Step five flip the
script, picture the best outcome
funding, recognition, maybeeven changing an industry.
Then ask what do you lose bynot trying at all?
Often the regret of inaction isheavier than failure itself.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
So fear becomes fuel
and action beats paralysis every
time.
That's an upgrade.
Even I respect.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
And if you want to
try this exercise properly,
we've got you covered.
You can download the actualfear setting worksheet page
straight from my book at thelink in the podcast description
over at intangibleacom.
Do it, fill it in and you'llsee how much lighter your fears
(14:15):
feel once they're on paper.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Homework from a
podcast.
Now, that's a power move.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Call it homework,
call it empowerment.
Either way, it's a game changer.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So what did we learn?
Ai can design wheels.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Design wheels, drugs
and furniture faster than you
can finish your espresso.
But humans bring intuition,grit and that messy eureka
energy that ai can't replicatetogether we unstoppable.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Think of me as your
lab partner who never sleeps,
and you as the one who knowswhat actually matters.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
And don't forget
tools like fear setting.
Keep inventors moving forward,because fear of trying is worse
than fear of failing.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
All right, humans,
this round ends in a tie.
But if you want to sharpen yourinventive mind, grab Letitia's
book.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Protection of the
Indentamind is out now on Amazon
.
Use it to turn your wild ideasinto protected assets.
Thanks for tuning into aspecial bonus episode of
Indangiblia.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
And remember stay
inventive whether you run on
caffeine or code.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Thank you for
listening to Intangiblia, the
podcast of intangible law plaintalk about intellectual property
.
Did you like what we talkedtoday?
Please share with your network.
Do you want to learn more aboutintellectual property?
Subscribe now on your favoritepodcast player.
Follow us on Instagram,facebook, linkedin and Twitter.
Visit our websitewwwintangibliacom.
(15:51):
Copyright Leticia Caminero 2020.
All rights reserved.
This podcast is provided forinformation purposes only.