January 21, 2025 • 52 mins
Unlock the secrets to transforming your trademarks into lucrative assets with our latest episode of Intangiblia. Join me, Leticia Caminero, and our distinguished guest, Shalini Sitamaran, an IP law expert with a rich background in physics and finance. Together, we uncover the critical steps to crafting a comprehensive trademark strategy, emphasizing registration, monitoring, and the power of the Madrid Protocol to conquer global markets. By the end of this episode, you'll view intellectual property in a whole new light and be ready to leverage it like never before.
Our conversation navigates innovative pathways for monetizing trademarks beyond their traditional roles. Discover how licensing, brand extensions, and collaborations can propel your brand to new heights, using real-world examples from iconic brands. We explore the fascinating world of cross-branding and the potential of AR and VR technologies to offer immersive experiences that captivate audiences. With careful planning, these strategies can help your brand tap into diverse customer segments and elevate its market presence.
Finally, we tackle the exciting yet challenging landscape of influencer marketing and global trademark issues, sharing insights on maintaining brand integrity while maximizing reach. As we look ahead, we highlight the importance of staying adaptable in a rapidly evolving digital marketplace. From AI and data analytics to sustainability practices, learn how to anticipate changes and seize opportunities for continued brand success. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion that promises to reshape your approach to brand monetization.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So I think one way of dealing with these challenges
would be to prioritize acomprehensive trademark
protection strategy.
So talk about trademarkregistration, of course, but
also talk about monitoring, talkabout enforcement, talk about
Madrid Protocol, which allowsyou to enter into different
markets at the same time, orthrough a one-stop shop, like I
(00:23):
like to call it.
Foster strong relationships,partnerships.
Making partnerships online isso convenient these days.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You are listening to Intangiblia, the podcast of
intangible law plain talk aboutintellectual property.
Please welcome your host,leticia Caminero.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Well, registration is just one part of the story.
For IP protection, for brandprotection, trademark protection
, you really have to understandthe full realm of options that
you have in order to monetize,in order to really take
advantage of the fact that youhave an exclusive property that
(01:05):
was provided by the registrationof the trademark, by the
registration of your IP.
So let's learn about it today.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It's great to be here .
I am Shalini.
I am from India, but I havetraveled and lived in the US for
more than a decade and in adifferent lifetime.
I used to be a physicist andthen I turned to IP law because
I realized that my researchingskills, I might be better at
(01:40):
protecting what researchers dothan actually being a researcher
myself.
So I turned to IP law and fromIP law life took a different
turn because I realized that IPis not the obtaining a
registration is not the end goalin itself, but it is actually
to recognize them as assets andto commercialize the assets.
(02:03):
So I switched, not switched.
I am now in two boats IP lawand I'm also in finance, where I
talk about valuation andcommercialization of IP.
After I transitioned fromphysics to law and I have
dedicated myself to helpingindividuals, businesses,
(02:25):
universities to not only protecttheir innovative ideas through
IP filing, but also take it onestep forward and to benefit from
that IP filing.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
So you had had many lives already, so, from
physician, researcher to IPprofessional in finance, that's
quite an interesting backgroundand I think that enriches a lot
of the work that you do, becauseyou come from a different
perspective, so you will have awider angle to view the cases
(03:00):
and to provide strategies.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Absolutely.
I had a professor in law schoolwho told us that to manage
intellectual property you needto have three legs you need to
have technology, you need tohave law IP law specifically and
you need to have management orfinance.
And until then your journeydoesn't stop.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Wow, yeah, I like that, the three that I like that
.
So let's dive into the topic.
Trademark monetization.
Can you explain what it is?
What is to monetize a trademarkand how is different from the
traditional brand management andrevenue generation strategies?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Perfect.
So you know, the mistake a lotof us make is that we view IP as
something different thanregular property.
The moment we drop that barrier, we realize that anything I can
use to monetize a traditionalproperty, real property you know
(04:07):
your land or gold or house orwhatever it is I can use that to
monetize my intellectualproperty.
So let's take trademarks.
Well, only difference is thatin the case of intellectual
property, because it isintangible, a trademark is
intangible.
You don't see it until you seethe logo on some product or some
(04:29):
service or on a billboard.
Only then you realize it is aproperty.
So it goes beyond traditionalbrand management.
Trademark monetization goesbeyond traditional brand
management because we can nowuse trademarks to generate
revenue streams strategically.
So your traditional brandmanagement, because we can now
use trademarks to generaterevenue streams strategically.
So your traditional brandmanagement.
(04:50):
Right, it focuses on yourreputation, loyalty, brand
integrity and all those fancywords.
But trademark monetization isvery simple.
We break it down to basics andsay we want to extract value
from these trademarks.
That's it.
How do I extract that?
So I had a client at a techstartup that I worked with and
(05:15):
we had and they had a fabuloussoftware solution.
Right.
The product was innovative andwe were filing a patent for them
.
And then they were wonderingwhat do they do?
How do they get onto the nextlevel in their funding and
pitching and so on?
So I said, okay, let's look atyour trademark.
They had completely ignored that.
For them, the trademark wasjust a name for what they were
(05:38):
doing.
They were not looking at it asan asset, as an entity in itself
.
So we talked about it.
We made them realize that, look, your trademark is, it has
market appeal.
There are people who look at itand recognize you as somebody.
So why not license it out toother companies?
Why not license it out to inthe same industry complementary
(06:00):
industry, you know?
And they did take that seriously.
They looked into it and theywent through a series of
licensing agreements.
They ended up adding uh, I'mnot going to say a huge chunk,
but substantial additionalrevenue to their existing
portfolio.
And, and this way because thebrand was already there in the
(06:23):
other markets when they entered,they were already known.
They didn't have to set upseparate marketing strategies
for their products.
They didn't have to do heavyinvesting now to create brand
awareness and so on.
So they had already entered themarket without entering the
market.
So in this way, I think,trademark monetization, if we
(06:43):
look at it as opposed to regularbrand strategy, you have to.
We are actively working onmonetizing the brand's
reputation, not just making abrand having beautiful,
creatives and colorful pictures,but milking it for what it's
worth that there is goodwill,there is reputation.
(07:03):
Let's use that to createrevenue streams.
This was just an example oflicensing, but we can also look
at merchandising, franchising.
For example.
If you're a coffee brand, youcan look at coffee cups, hats,
beanies, so on and a bunch ofother ways.
So it is active versus apassive brand management
(07:25):
approach.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
On that same thought, can you give us examples in
which innovative strategies havebeen extremely successful for
trademark monetization?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, for sure, it's just okay.
For sure, it's just okay.
So I think we should start withsaying not look at the various
intellectual properties asseparate things, but look at it
as one gigantic system, onegigantic organism.
No like, let's not look atpatents separately, trademarks
separately, design separately,but one big sandwich which then
(08:02):
tastes delicious because it hasall these components and
businesses.
Of course, they are adopting alot of creative strategy these
days.
They're trying to.
You know, like we discussed inthe previous segment about
active brand management, so theyare taking charge.
But what we can also do andwe've seen this in a number of
(08:24):
cases is brand extension.
I have, I'm a company, I have abrand.
Let me expand my brand into newcategories, new industries.
You know why should I restrictmyself to one?
So, for example, I'm a fashionbrand and I can tie up with a
high-end hotel chain and, usingmy fashion, what is the
(08:49):
something that sets me apart asmy you know iconic designs, from
my brand, from my portfolio.
I can take it and apply it tohotel chains.
But of course, everyone has tobe on board with this.
We cannot just take someone'siconic brand and a logo and
stick it onto ours.
There have been a couple of NFTcases in that realm.
(09:11):
So, with everyone on board,this kind of collaboration will
not only generate buzz and mediaattention.
For example, we can have TaylorSwift and the Hiltons and or
Starbucks and Kim Kardashiansomething like that where you
have two iconic brands thatbring their specific flavor to
(09:33):
the table and this way they cannow double their customer
segments.
So Starbucks has not only theStarbucks loyalists, but also
Kim Kardashian's fans will nowjump in to buy the Kardashian
designed cup or drink, and thisyou know.
(09:54):
So you're getting two for theprice of one, and I think that
is the game to be played,especially with.
We have a Gen X, we havemillennials, we have Gen Z.
Each one has differentpreferences, different likes and
dislikes, but by doing thiscross branding, this kind of
(10:16):
experience, this collaboration,I think we can now tap into
markets of the differentgenerations.
And I think another trend that Ihave noticed in this
experiential branding gosh,there's so much to say, I'm
sorry, slow me down if I am toofast is that we can create
immersive brand experiences.
(10:36):
There was a chain of hotelsthat brought in the Disney feel,
so that when you walk into theroom, I think they have patented
it as well and then they cannow monet.
They have patented it as welland then they can now monetize
their trademarks as well withthe Disney and the hotel chain
where you can choose if you wantto be the Little Mermaid, and
then the AR VR thing makes theentire room like the Little
(10:58):
Mermaid's room or her seabed,and then the same characters
that are there in LittleMermaid's room or her seabed and
then the same characters thatare there in Little Mermaid.
Now you can find AR VR versionsof them on your wall and you
can have like an interactive 3Dbath time for your child and so
on.
So this kind of experientialbranding it makes it something
(11:22):
unique that people want to thensplurge on.
People want to come andexperience it and, of course, if
you bring in Disney, then youhave the little kids involved in
this customer experience aswell.
It forges an emotional brand, aconnection with the brand,
especially if you catch themyoung.
(11:43):
And so I think if people areaware about this, they are
getting increasingly creative intheir approach to trademark
monetization.
They are open to exploringunconventional partnerships such
as hotels and Disney anddigital and AR VR kind of
(12:05):
technology.
So I think this kind of digitalinnovation is going to maximize
brand value and it is going toreally drive that revenue growth
in the months to come.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So it's unique partnerships, making sure that
you take someone who is alreadyexcelling in their own field and
looking for ways that you canexcel together.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Absolutely.
This kind of collaboration thengets you twice the fun two for
the price of one.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah, and I love the hotel idea.
My daughter she's only two, butshe's a huge fan of Moana, the
Disney princess, and, well, thedaughter of the chief, because
she's not a princess, so I thinkshe will be she will never
leave that room, ever.
I will have to drag her out, yes, yes.
(13:17):
So, on the same thought ofmaximizing the brands and making
sure that you get the most ofthe, to make sure that you have
your community, that your brandcreates a community, that
creates people that reallyidentify themselves with it and
it creates brand recognition.
And how can you make thecustomers your village, in a way
?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So active supervision of how your brand is being used
, how it is being portrayed inthe media.
A lot of times we have seen inthe past where there has been
trademark genocide, there hasbeen trademark dilution, all
because there's a very fine linebetween something becoming
(14:04):
popular, becoming the buzzwordor the trendsetter, and from
there to becoming a generic word, or dilution is a very, very
small step, like onenanomillimeter in that direction
and you're gone.
We have seen it with Xerox andwe have seen it with Aspirin and
(14:28):
Zipper.
All of them have gone thegeneric side way.
Of course, xerox did manage tomake a comeback, but they still
now, if you go to the Xeroxwebsite, they take active care
in saying that do not use theword Xerox and we are monitoring
it and so on.
But in the end I think it is toolittle, too late, because where
(14:48):
I live in Goa and when I grewup in Bombay, every street had,
especially around schools andcolleges and universities there
were always little shops whicheven now say Xerox one rupee or
two rupees or whatever it is,and for that customer, even
though he is buying that machinefrom Xerox or probably now from
(15:12):
Brother, which is a well-knownbrand, I think a Japanese brand.
They are not aware, they arenot conscious that there is
something called a dilution orgenocide.
So I think if you are, if youare looking to make your
customer base your village, yourcommunity, your tribe, you also
(15:33):
have to deliver on the front,not only ideal products and
services, which of course youare good at you are going to
deliver it but also in lettingthem know that you have built a
fence around that property andyou are monitoring it and not
anyone and everyone can trespassover it.
(15:53):
You know if I'm making ananalogy to real property.
So I think you have to givethat same respect to your
customer base, to your consumerbase, to let them know that we
take this as seriously as youtake.
Because you know, as a customer,I know with a two-year-old
child you must have that thatthey walk into the store and
(16:14):
they want a particular cereal orthey want a particular
chocolate or you know, aparticular toy.
And why is that?
It is there?
Because the brand has taken allthat effort to stick that
product at that level of thechild.
You know they always put theinteresting cereals, the
sugar-loaded cereals, at theheight of two-year-old kids and
(16:39):
not at the eye level of theadults.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Oh my God yes, and the shiniest colors and and with
the cutest kind of uh, uh, petor or images.
Yeah, it's, oh no.
And then she's like she, sheloves chocolate.
Yes, even when I was umpregnant with her, I would I'd
never ate so much chocolate inmy entire life, even today, so
(17:07):
it was completely her from thewomb.
When we go to the supermarket,she says, because you cannot
pronounce chocolate, she goes.
She knows exactly what it is,she goes, takes it and then
there's no force in human naturethat can remove that chocolate
from that hand.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
No, absolutely.
And I like how veryconveniently you blame that
entire pregnancy of chocolateson her.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I like how you snag her at it.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yes, of course you are but that is the thing, that
kinder, joy and and whateverelse these kids like they have
created.
That appeal right, but theyalso have to monitor it to make
sure that, of course, yourtwo-year-old won't.
Won't mind, but you will bewary if there is someone like.
(18:00):
I don't know if it's happeningwhere you are right now, but in
india we are seeing a lot ofripoffs on Ferrero Rocher, which
is my favorite chocolate.
But then I see a lot of boxes,same design and that gold,
except that the chocolates arewrapped in shiny purple wrapper,
royal purple.
(18:20):
So it looks like, ooh, ferrerohas come up with a different
flavor or something you know.
And then you look closely andeven the writing is like perero
rocher, but it you know twowords, but it actually is
something else which, if you'rein a hurry and you're just
picking up to put in your cart,it is, it's a.
It's a trademark infringementand trade dress infringement.
(18:43):
And if I I think that, nomatter where, especially
something like Ferrero Rocher,which has far reaching consumer
base, you know, I think theyshould take an active
participation in.
If I am that loyal that when Igo to someone's house I always
give them a box of FerreroRocher, then they should also
(19:04):
take into account that theirtrademark is being diluted and
is being made generic, or theyjust don't care enough about
this market, in which case I, asa consumer base, will wonder is
this brand worth my loyalty?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, it's true, because it's a matter of do you
value yourself enough in orderto pursue any other confusion?
Because if it is to the pointthat if you really have to look
closely to make sure you don'tmake a mistake, then there's a
very high risk of customerconfusion.
(19:40):
And well, I live in Switzerlandnow and yeah, I mean you know
chocolate is like a veryimportant industry here.
But everything is about how youidentify yourself and how
customers can identify yourself.
(20:00):
If they are driven to confusion, then they most likely going to
be disappointed and they'regoing to end up even not using
your brand, because they saywell, every time I try to buy it
, I get confused.
I don't have the time to be sovigilant every time or to be
always aware.
Am I getting what I want or amI getting something else?
(20:20):
So it can also exhaust thecustomer because you have to do
like an extra legwork just tomake sure that you are not being
deceived.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And we are seeing a lot ofinflux of such trademark
infringements in Maggie, maggienoodles, which is a big you know
a big student food thing.
Here and outside schools andcolleges you'll always find
someone who's selling Maggie andMaggie and toast Maggie and
(20:56):
omelet, all kinds of things andso.
But when you go into the storesyou see someone who has the
same yellow packaging withsomething written in red and
it's just not, it's not funshopping.
Then you know if you're goingto have to weed out, like you
said.
It creates an added level of ofinertia for me to jump over
(21:22):
yeah, of course, of course.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
That's why it's important to be vigilant.
It's important to make surethat, uh, your, your customers,
are happy and you are addressingany infringement or any
confusion in the market.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Absolutely.
And I want to go back and sayone more thing about the
collaboration we were talkingabout.
Much as it sounds like I'mbeing, you know, at the risk of
saying something incorrect andstepping on anyone's toes If you
are at a particular, if youhave a niche customer base like
(22:02):
that is, one customer base of aparticular class of society,
then you should think ofconnecting with, like a cross
section, a different crosssection of society, in order you
can't keep living in an ivorytower.
You know that I'm at this level, rich, white male, let's say,
or, you know, orAfrican-American or Latina, but
(22:29):
wealthy.
You can't afford to restrictyourself to these classes
anymore when you are servicing,of course, unless it is skin
care, cosmetic cosmetics which,of course, as women you know,
every there's differentcosmetics that suit different
skins and different hairproducts and skin products.
Other than that, if I'm lookingat food and and living and food
(22:53):
and lifestyle kind of thing,then I should be open to
experimenting with a differentcross-section of society.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
You are listening to Intangiblia, the podcast of
intangible law playing talkabout intellectual property.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, of course, to make sure that you don't limit
your trademark or your brand oryour products just to one
section.
If you can, you can enrich itand have a further reach or
further impact.
And on the cosmetics, yes, it'sextremely hard to find a brand
(23:33):
with my exact skin color,because I'm very fortunate that
I'm just in the middle ofeverything.
I either get too light for meor too dark for me, so there's
only very few brands thatactually matches my skin color
and some of them make me lookorange.
So you're the Goldilocks of thecosmetics world.
(24:01):
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm luckyenough that's very interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
so I have a friend who is finnish and so she's
extremely pale skin, then pinklips, and I'm on the brown and
with a yellow skin tone side.
I bought a set of lipstickslike four lipsticks to try, you
know, trial pack see which onesuits me.
The browns refused to even showup on my skin.
It was like I was not wearingany makeup and then I had to.
(24:29):
Then I gave her the browns andI kept the pinks for myself,
even though I wanted somethingbrown, you know a mocha shade or
something, and we just had todivide it because it refuses to
show up on my skin.
So so, yeah, so the cosmeticthing is is very true what you
said.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, I remember growing up it was so hard to try
to do because back then it wasin magazines.
You learn in magazines like thetrends and then you would try
to replicate them on you and, ohmy God, I will never look like
the girl in the magazine.
Have you seen the smoky eyes?
(25:08):
Oh no, I have to be verycareful with smoky eyes because
I look like I have like a womanin my head, like someone hit me
in the face Right.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I look like a raccoon when I try smoky eyes.
But my fair skin friends, theygo smoky eyes and they look so
glamorous.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Flawless.
I have to.
Actually, for me it's more likelight in eyes.
I have to put a lot of white, alot of light colors in the eye
area to make it pop, because ifI put it too dark then I look
like I was in a fight.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I think we need to write to the cosmetic companies.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, don't forget about brown girls please.
Yeah, oh my god.
So let's keep on the topic, andwe're talking about trends.
We're talking about, um, allthis, this, uh, how we can uh
take on trends and make it ourown, um, like smoky eyes and so
(26:07):
forth.
And now we can talk about thebig trend of this last 10, 15
years is the influencer life,the influencer marketing, the
influencer impacts on customerand how they can really take
advantage or take a positivestep in order to have a good
(26:42):
relationship with influencers,with the influencer marketing,
and how can they make valuablecollaborations and paradigms.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Oh, you know, 20 years ago, when I started in
this field, when I started mycareer, there was no such thing
as influencer, there was no suchthing as social media.
But in today's day and age, Idon't think you can have a
conversation without bringing inthe word influencer or social
media.
You cannot have a conversationwithout it and word influencer
or social media.
You cannot have a conversationwithout it.
And every time you go toInstagram or I got an account
(27:21):
yesterday on Twitch and my kidsare very amused at me for having
an account on Twitch, but I gotin there because there was a
copyright issue on Twitch theyare sending their influencers
who violate copyright rules tocopyright school, saying you're
banned until you go and finishthis copyright school that we
(27:44):
are offering, and only if youclear it you can come back as an
influencer.
Only then will your account berestored.
So I said, ok, this is a goodchance to go and talk about
copyrights on Twitch and I madean account and my kids are
they're 13 and 15.
And they say you don't knowwhat Twitch is for, but but
trademarks do.
So you realize that even these,these platforms that are
(28:07):
tailored for Gen Zs and GenZalpha, they are keeping in mind
intellectual property, they areaware of it and whoever is
advising them they're they'restill enforcing it.
So there is a huge opportunityfor collaborative partnerships
and sponsorship deals in thisrealm of influencer marketing.
The brands are recognizing thevalue of aligning with
(28:30):
influencers, and I was reading Idon't know if you'd read about
this there's this little girlwho is now, I think, about four,
four years old or something,but she started at two, uh,
giving reviews about toys, andthen Leo, and she had her own
YouTube platform and Leo Mattelalso signed her on and they
would send her toys and shewould review it uh kind of thing
.
So, uh, so they are.
(28:53):
So brands even.
You know, every brand has it'sthe right influencer for it, uh,
where whose personal brandsresonate with the target
audience.
So, for example, I I wasadvising this uh company, very
small cosmetic company, and theywanted to grow their brand and
(29:13):
uh, without spending too much inmarketing.
So what they did was I wasn'tinvolved in this transaction,
but they went on to tie up witha beauty influencer on Instagram
to launch a limited editionmakeup collection featuring that
influencer's signature style.
So the influencer was also notso big to be on a global scale.
(29:34):
Neither was the cosmeticcompany.
But at whatever level they wereat, they did collaborate and by
using each other's personalbrand, the influencer's personal
brand and their social mediafollowing, which, if you're a
country like India, you know,and even if you're only
localized to India, we have 1billion people, so we can have a
(29:56):
huge following, social mediafollowing.
So it created a significantbuzz, drove sales and the
influencer also benefited fromthe increased exposure because
the brand was advertising.
The influencer and I also on apersonal note note I also have a
friend who is crazy about homedecor, so she keeps buying
(30:19):
curtains and and knickknacks andbecause of her shopping thing,
these brands on Instagramstarted promoting her, started
giving her products to reviewand to talk about and she makes
short reels on them and now herhouse is filled with so she
(30:39):
gives it off as gifts.
She's got a house full of allthese all these home, home
decoration, interior decoration,things that she likes and she's
.
She's an influencer in her ownright and she gets to promote
all these brands.
So they send her a box, sheunboxes it and makes a whole
video about it.
It's a lot of fun.
But in all of this they have tomake sure that the trademark is
(31:04):
visible, because that isultimately the bulwark, the
cornerstone for protecting theintellectual property right in
these collaboration and and itof course, is justified that the
that the brand requires theinfluencer to showcase the
trademark.
This way, both parties.
They maintain control overtheir brand, brand identity and
(31:26):
reputation.
So the influencer's identity isher face or hands, whatever
they like to show in the video,but at the same time showcasing
the brand's trademark.
So in this case, both to showin the video but at the same
time showcasing the brand'strademark.
So in this case, both are therein the center stage.
And whether it is co-brandedmerchandise or sponsored content
, endorsement, deals, unboxingsomething, you know, these
trademarks they provide a verystrong foundation for building
(31:50):
this kind of successfulpartnerships, especially in a
digital realm where nobody can,there's no way of going and
verifying if something is trueor not.
But if there is the backing ofan established brand behind the
influencer, then there is somekind of integrity, there is some
kind of truthfulness to what'shappening.
Otherwise, you know, I could besitting here saying I am
(32:14):
talking unboxing this bottle andthis drink, a health beverage,
and it's all it is is uh,filtered water.
So that kind of uh backing bythe, by the brand, by cosmetic
brand or whatever it is thatwe're talking about here.
It brings a sense of makes itkosher, makes it you.
Okay, everything is in orderand we are not being taken for a
(32:36):
ride.
As a customer, I know that theyare both legitimate.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Now, yeah, so it's making sure that you make the
right collaborations with theright person as well, because it
has to be an influencer or aperson who is already in that
field, in that industry, in thesector what you're talking about
.
I love the example of yourfriend that she made herself an
(33:04):
influencer just because she waspassionate about home decor and
enhancing her home, and itsounds like she has a lovely
home.
So this is something to keep inmind that to make sure that
it's not only collaborating withsomeone because they have a lot
of followers.
It's just someone that isreally is true to the word.
(33:27):
It's someone who has a goodreputation.
It's someone that is already inthe same field as your brand,
is someone that is already inthe same field as your brand is
that is going to give youpositive, is going to
collaborate with you positively.
It's going to be someone who'sgoing to contribute and not take
(33:48):
from you.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Perfect yeah, positive collaboration that
should be the terminologycollaboration.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
That should be the terminology, exactly, exactly.
So talking about the biggerpicture in the negative way.
So we have talked about all thegreat opportunities, all the
great ways in which you canactually enhance your brand and
you can monetize your brand, butnow let's talk about it in a
way that what um challenges canyou encounter in this um path of
(34:20):
monetization?
Um what, uh, what, what istypically or more commonly, um
the challenges that someonefaces in this, uh, in this way?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
okay, you know, the world has become
hyper-competitive and everyspace you go is overcrowded for
lack of a better word andirrespective of your geography,
but mainly because we've alsojust collapsed into one large
global digital village and thereare no boundaries and any kind
(34:57):
of boundaries in this digitalvillage.
So then the problem comes inmonetizing the trademark,
because every country so in thephysical realm, where we are, or
where we have boundaries and wehave territories we have
intellectual property isjurisdictional in nature,
territorial in nature.
So the laws that are there inIndia are valid in India, the
(35:19):
laws that are there inSwitzerland are valid in
Switzerland, and they can.
But what happens in thisdigital village?
What happens when we take awayall the boundaries?
And then which laws do wefollow?
So for intellectual property?
For as it is intellectualproperty or trademarks, they are
intangible in nature.
So that itself is the firstproblem.
(35:40):
But now you take thisintangible asset, you take this,
something that we cannot touch,feel, hear, smell, and then now
you put it in a world whichdoesn't have boundaries and
which, also, we cannot touch,feel, hear, see, smell.
Right, internet, what is theinternet?
So now the obstacle thenbecomes navigating the
(36:03):
intellectual property laws andregulations which are
significantly varying acrossjurisdiction.
Now we have to treat the worldas one, but having boundaries
but not having boundaries.
And so what do we do?
So I remember we had thiscompany that I was working with
(36:23):
and they were having troublewith expanding their trademark
licensing agreements in adifferent country in an
international market, becauseevery country has its own set of
legal requirements and culturalnuances and compliance becomes
an issue.
What I'm used to as a legalpractitioner in India maybe very
(36:45):
different.
What my day looks like here inIndia is very different from
what your day looks like inGeneva.
And so how do we protect ourbrands and how do we ensure
compliance across these boundarylines?
So one way to overcome thishurdle, what we did was we gave
up control and we said nowpartner with local legal experts
(37:06):
.
We will advise you from thisend, but for the local, for that
place, let's find you a localpartner.
So I'll give you, I'll draw aparallel to it.
I'm I don't know if you'llidentify with it or not in India
, about a few years till, abouta few years ago, and we still do
we have arranged marriagesright.
So in arranged marriage, the boyand the girl, the groom and the
(37:29):
bride do not meet initially.
So it's all happens at a veryhigh level.
There is a marriage broker here.
There's a marriage broker herewho are talking to the parents.
So the parents, two sets ofparents, are there, they have
their own marriage brokers andthe two marriage brokers are now
talking to each other and theynegotiate all the things like
other qualities, matching, otherhoroscopes, matching, and the
(37:52):
bride is this.
Bride is qualified, groom isqualified, bride has a job,
groom has a job geographical.
Are they willing to move?
What do they do?
Are they willing to migrate?
All that kind of things getsorted at that level of the
brokers.
So the bride and the groom theydon't have to deal with all of
this.
So if I talk about the twocompanies in different countries
as the bride and the groom,then the legal experts here and
(38:16):
there become the marriagebrokers.
So they iron out, they know thecultural nuances, they know
what could go wrong, they knowwhat are the things that needs
to be discussed, what are theterms and conditions that need
to be ironed out, and theysought all that at their level.
So we need that.
The one way to overcome thishurdle would be to partner with
(38:37):
a local legal expert who have aclearer understanding of the
regulatory landscape.
They can provide tailored,customized guidance for that
market, rather than me trying tonavigate the Switzerland legal
system.
You know, it would just be notreinventing the wheel, not be
(38:58):
worth anyone's time.
So the other problem thesebusinesses could face in in this
world is right now, uh, branddilution, which we've already
spoken about.
Um, we have, uh, it's like Isaid, everything is highly
competitive and consumerpreferences are changing.
Something is a trend todaybecause of a meme or a YouTube
(39:21):
or Instagram or TikTok reel, andthen tomorrow it is no longer
there in in the picture.
So consumer preferences and ourattention spans are decreasing
very rapidly.
So what we like today, we don'tlike tomorrow.
So how do you maintain brandconsistency?
(39:42):
How do you enforce trademarkrights?
Across this scene that isevolving so rapidly, it becomes
crucial to safeguard yourbrand's reputation, your market
position.
So I think one way of dealingwith these challenges would be
to prioritize a comprehensivetrademark protection strategy.
(40:04):
So talk about trademarkregistration, of course, but
also talk about monitoring, talkabout enforcement, talk about
Madrid protocol, which allowsyou to enter into different
markets at the same time, orthrough a one stop stop, like I
like to call it foster strongrelationships, partnerships.
Making partnerships online isso, so convenient these days on
(40:25):
LinkedIn, on and on any othersocial media I only stick to
LinkedIn because I can't handletoo much of social media but you
have access to legalprofessionals, you have access
to technology solutions forbrand monitoring who's
infringing your brand and howthe brand is doing, and so on.
We get data and statistics forevery single thing that happens
(40:49):
online today.
So if you are really seriousabout it, we should make use of
it, because these can helpnegate your risks or maybe not
negate it totally, but at leastmitigate it to an extent and
ensure compliance acrossgeographies.
You know, then, we don't.
We are not worried about whatis happening in Switzerland or
what's happening in Cambodia,for now, yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
so it's important to have the right person on your
court.
So it's important to have theright support, the right
professionals around you to makesure that you have all the
information needed to do thesteps that you need to do.
So with that, let's talk aboutthe future.
(41:32):
So how can you prepare for sucha hectic future?
Because we know everything thatis coming and is already
changing so much.
The way that we do business isconstantly evolving.
Now, with new technology, wehave even more challenges.
With AI, with enhanced realityas well, there's so many
(42:00):
technical technology part thatis already influencing on the
business, but also there's morecry for, or request or demand
for, cultural awareness, to makesure, as well, your brand is
culturally aware, is respectingother people's rights or other
(42:24):
people's way of living, and alsoyou have even a political
component sometime, according tothe type of brand that you have
.
So all of these things that youneed to be very careful to
navigate to make sure that youuse them in your advantage or in
a way that doesn't affectnegatively affect your brand.
(42:45):
So what do you foresee to bethe big changes and shape in our
future?
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Let me get my crystal ball out.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
You don't have one we all have one.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
You know, leticia, it is a very interesting and
important point.
You brought out that there iscultural nuances that we need to
be aware of.
There was a trademark dispute afew years ago in India where
someone was selling on AmazonIndia they were selling these
doormats, bathroom mats, withgods and goddesses Indian, hindu
(43:29):
gods and goddesses on it, and Idon't know how familiar you are
with the Indian culture, withthe Hindu religion, but we don't
even step on a piece of paper,because that is the goddess of
learning.
It goes to that extent.
You cannot put your foot on apen or a pencil or a piece of
paper, or kick a book oranything.
(43:50):
It is still the goddess oflearning.
So the bathroom mat with godsand goddesses on it and there
were also bathroom slippers thatthey were selling, with gods
and goddesses photo on it, andit was just so insensitive, and
Amazon had to take it off thewebsite within 24 hours.
(44:11):
So you raise a very importantpoint.
The question is, though milliondollar question is what do we do
about it?
How do we?
There are so many people inthis world and there are so many
cultures, so many religions andso many languages, so many
things.
We don't know enough about,everything that is in the world.
(44:32):
So so how do we navigate allthat?
And also with the nextgeneration?
So every other generation gapis getting smaller.
Our time it used to be I don'tknow about your time, I'm very
old it used to be 15 years andnow every seven years is a new
(44:53):
generation, so it's cut down tohalf its lifetime.
So that means that the consumerpreference, the thinking, the
mentality, the technicaladvancements, like you mentioned
, the emerging market trendseverything is moving so rapidly
that your parents' approach tobrand monetization is not going
to work anymore.
(45:14):
Brand monetization is not goingto work anymore.
So we had this consumer goodscompany that was shifting from a
brick and mortar store toe-commerce platform, and what
they did was they revamped theirtrademark monetization strategy
and started doing targeteddigital media marketing
campaigns, leveraging whateveruser-generated content is there,
(45:38):
online influencers, using allof these available tools to
promote their product.
So we, of course we are livingin fantastic times that we are
not relegated to a single modeof marketing, right?
We are not.
When I was growing up, it waseither magazines, billboards,
television or radio, and, if I'mnot mistaken correct me if I'm
(46:02):
wrong, but I think radio isstill the most expensive
platform to advertise on.
But television has vanished,billboards have vanished and
magazines have vanished.
So what remains?
And I don't know how many ofthe Gen Zs listen to radios, to
the radio.
But where have all our usualplaces, where we used to go look
(46:24):
for advertisements?
You know, I used to go tomovies, movie halls 10 minutes
in advance to watch theadvertisements, and now those
have vanished too.
We barely get any ads.
So now, I think becauseeveryone else has left those
realms and they've moved on toTikTok and whatever other
(46:45):
platforms, instagram and so on.
So this agile approach allowspeople, allows businesses, to
capitalize on emerging trends.
I think they just go where thenew generation is going.
They just follow them and seewhat they're doing.
And to answer your question, ifI gaze into my hypothetical
crystal ball, I foresee severalkey trends that shape the future
(47:10):
of brand monetization.
This rise of AI, artificialintelligence and data analytics
will enable brands to betterunderstand consumer behavior,
because you can do a lot with AIand data analytics.
You can just throw a lot ofunrelated data.
Now, I'm not saying that allthe correlation it makes is
(47:34):
correct.
You have to take it with agrain of salt.
But if you have someonereasonably sharp behind who's
operating all this AI, then theycan tell you if this
correlation that is drawn likewhether there is a connection or
there is no connection to drawsome kind of a graph you know,
correlation graph between them.
So these kinds of studies willbetter enable brands to
(47:58):
understand consumer behavior,personalize and have like a
targeted marketing effort.
Secondly, we can have there isthere is this awareness of
sustainable, growing awarenessof sustainability, corporate
social responsibility and so on.
That is driving the demand nowfor brands to align with ethical
(48:21):
values and have they know thatpeople are getting conscious
about climate change and theyare willing to do something.
And finally, the global markets.
I hate to use the wordexpansion.
I think it's expansion andcollapse at the same time,
because we are expanding interms of size, but it's a
(48:41):
collapse in terms of how closetwo people can get.
I'm sitting in Goa, you'resitting in Geneva and here we
are having this conversation.
So it's collapsed in a way andnot expanded.
So this cross-border e-commerceis going to create many more
opportunities for brands toreach diverse audiences that
they could not have imagined inour parents' age and to monetize
(49:03):
their trademarks on that scale.
Now imagine how far-reachingand huge that impact is going to
be.
On the downside, though, I musttell you that I'm worried for
the future of influencers.
Though I must tell you that I'mworried for the future of
influencers, social mediainfluencers, again, with AI,
(49:25):
there are all these AIinfluencers who have come in,
and if they are willing to dothe job for no cost, who is
going to hire influencers soreal influencers, and you can't
tell the difference apart.
I don't know if you've seen anyof them, but they look so
lifelike and in this.
So, if I'm getting immaculatecontent and delivery without all
(49:46):
the, all the diva and the andthe Prima Dona.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Without dealing with a person.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Okay, you said it Without dealing with a person
People.
They said it Without dealingwith a person People.
They're just bags of chemicals.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Right Now you take away the chemicals and you have
everything else.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
I don't know what is going to happen to social media
influencers.
But, having said that, I thinkbrands are going to be better
positioned in the coming daysbecause there's going to be
better readability into theconsumer's mindset, a better
prediction of what people aregoing to go towards next, what
is the next trend going to be.
(50:23):
So, in that sense, brands aregoing to get be able to
extrapolate that graph and get ajump on to how the behavior is
going to be and target that, andso we better watch out be and
target that, and so we betterwatch out.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
yeah, it's true, it's true, there's so many, so so
many jobs and positions that aiis gonna make obsolete.
Uh, so we, we need to be uhvigilant with that and also move
accordingly and changeaccordingly and and adapt
ourselves, because, uh,technology is not gonna stop,
something that we have learned,learned from the beginning of
history, from the beginning ofhumankind technology, innovation
(51:01):
is never going to stop.
We just need to adapt and makeourselves better thanks to the
technology that we have at hand.
So, thank you so much for yourtime, thank you so much for
sharing with us.
It's been an immense pleasureto get to know you, to
understand better the great workthat you do, and also, I would
(51:23):
like to ask you if you can tellus where we can find you, if
someone wants furtherinformation or someone wants to
hire your services in India aswell.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Sure, I am there on LinkedIn a lot more than I would
like to admit.
You can find me on LinkedIn asShalini Menezes and otherwise.
All my information is availableon LinkedIn, so you can just
look me up there.
I will share the link with youif you need.
Perfect.
Thank you so much.
(51:55):
Thank you for having me here onthis podcast, leticia.
I enjoyed speaking to you.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
Thank you, it's my pleasure.
We have reached the end of ourepisode.
Greetings from Switzerland.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Thank you for listening to Intangiblia, the
podcast of intangible law plaintalk about intellectual property
.
Did you like what we talkedtoday?
Please share with your network.
Do you want to learn more aboutintellectual property?
Subscribe now on your favoritepodcast player.
Follow us on Instagram,facebook, linkedin and Twitter.
(52:30):
Visit our websitewwwintangibliacom.
Wwwintangibliacom.
Copyright Leticia Caminero 2020.
All rights reserved.
This podcast is provided forinformation purposes only.
So I think one way of dealing with these challenges
would be to prioritize acomprehensive trademark
protection strategy.
So talk about trademarkregistration, of course, but
also talk about monitoring, talkabout enforcement, talk about
Madrid Protocol, which allowsyou to enter into different
markets at the same time, orthrough a one-stop shop, like I
(00:23):
like to call it.
Foster strong relationships,partnerships.
Making partnerships online isso convenient these days.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You are listening to Intangiblia, the podcast of
intangible law plain talk aboutintellectual property.
Please welcome your host,leticia Caminero.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Well, registration is just one part of the story.
For IP protection, for brandprotection, trademark protection
, you really have to understandthe full realm of options that
you have in order to monetize,in order to really take
advantage of the fact that youhave an exclusive property that
(01:05):
was provided by the registrationof the trademark, by the
registration of your IP.
So let's learn about it today.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It's great to be here .
I am Shalini.
I am from India, but I havetraveled and lived in the US for
more than a decade and in adifferent lifetime.
I used to be a physicist andthen I turned to IP law because
I realized that my researchingskills, I might be better at
(01:40):
protecting what researchers dothan actually being a researcher
myself.
So I turned to IP law and fromIP law life took a different
turn because I realized that IPis not the obtaining a
registration is not the end goalin itself, but it is actually
to recognize them as assets andto commercialize the assets.
(02:03):
So I switched, not switched.
I am now in two boats IP lawand I'm also in finance, where I
talk about valuation andcommercialization of IP.
After I transitioned fromphysics to law and I have
dedicated myself to helpingindividuals, businesses,
(02:25):
universities to not only protecttheir innovative ideas through
IP filing, but also take it onestep forward and to benefit from
that IP filing.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
So you had had many lives already, so, from
physician, researcher to IPprofessional in finance, that's
quite an interesting backgroundand I think that enriches a lot
of the work that you do, becauseyou come from a different
perspective, so you will have awider angle to view the cases
(03:00):
and to provide strategies.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Absolutely.
I had a professor in law schoolwho told us that to manage
intellectual property you needto have three legs you need to
have technology, you need tohave law IP law specifically and
you need to have management orfinance.
And until then your journeydoesn't stop.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Wow, yeah, I like that, the three that I like that
.
So let's dive into the topic.
Trademark monetization.
Can you explain what it is?
What is to monetize a trademarkand how is different from the
traditional brand management andrevenue generation strategies?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Perfect.
So you know, the mistake a lotof us make is that we view IP as
something different thanregular property.
The moment we drop that barrier, we realize that anything I can
use to monetize a traditionalproperty, real property you know
(04:07):
your land or gold or house orwhatever it is I can use that to
monetize my intellectualproperty.
So let's take trademarks.
Well, only difference is thatin the case of intellectual
property, because it isintangible, a trademark is
intangible.
You don't see it until you seethe logo on some product or some
(04:29):
service or on a billboard.
Only then you realize it is aproperty.
So it goes beyond traditionalbrand management.
Trademark monetization goesbeyond traditional brand
management because we can nowuse trademarks to generate
revenue streams strategically.
So your traditional brandmanagement, because we can now
use trademarks to generaterevenue streams strategically.
So your traditional brandmanagement.
(04:50):
Right, it focuses on yourreputation, loyalty, brand
integrity and all those fancywords.
But trademark monetization isvery simple.
We break it down to basics andsay we want to extract value
from these trademarks.
That's it.
How do I extract that?
So I had a client at a techstartup that I worked with and
(05:15):
we had and they had a fabuloussoftware solution.
Right.
The product was innovative andwe were filing a patent for them
.
And then they were wonderingwhat do they do?
How do they get onto the nextlevel in their funding and
pitching and so on?
So I said, okay, let's look atyour trademark.
They had completely ignored that.
For them, the trademark wasjust a name for what they were
(05:38):
doing.
They were not looking at it asan asset, as an entity in itself
.
So we talked about it.
We made them realize that, look, your trademark is, it has
market appeal.
There are people who look at itand recognize you as somebody.
So why not license it out toother companies?
Why not license it out to inthe same industry complementary
(06:00):
industry, you know?
And they did take that seriously.
They looked into it and theywent through a series of
licensing agreements.
They ended up adding uh, I'mnot going to say a huge chunk,
but substantial additionalrevenue to their existing
portfolio.
And, and this way because thebrand was already there in the
(06:23):
other markets when they entered,they were already known.
They didn't have to set upseparate marketing strategies
for their products.
They didn't have to do heavyinvesting now to create brand
awareness and so on.
So they had already entered themarket without entering the
market.
So in this way, I think,trademark monetization, if we
(06:43):
look at it as opposed to regularbrand strategy, you have to.
We are actively working onmonetizing the brand's
reputation, not just making abrand having beautiful,
creatives and colorful pictures,but milking it for what it's
worth that there is goodwill,there is reputation.
(07:03):
Let's use that to createrevenue streams.
This was just an example oflicensing, but we can also look
at merchandising, franchising.
For example.
If you're a coffee brand, youcan look at coffee cups, hats,
beanies, so on and a bunch ofother ways.
So it is active versus apassive brand management
(07:25):
approach.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
On that same thought, can you give us examples in
which innovative strategies havebeen extremely successful for
trademark monetization?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, for sure, it's just okay.
For sure, it's just okay.
So I think we should start withsaying not look at the various
intellectual properties asseparate things, but look at it
as one gigantic system, onegigantic organism.
No like, let's not look atpatents separately, trademarks
separately, design separately,but one big sandwich which then
(08:02):
tastes delicious because it hasall these components and
businesses.
Of course, they are adopting alot of creative strategy these
days.
They're trying to.
You know, like we discussed inthe previous segment about
active brand management, so theyare taking charge.
But what we can also do andwe've seen this in a number of
(08:24):
cases is brand extension.
I have, I'm a company, I have abrand.
Let me expand my brand into newcategories, new industries.
You know why should I restrictmyself to one?
So, for example, I'm a fashionbrand and I can tie up with a
high-end hotel chain and, usingmy fashion, what is the
(08:49):
something that sets me apart asmy you know iconic designs, from
my brand, from my portfolio.
I can take it and apply it tohotel chains.
But of course, everyone has tobe on board with this.
We cannot just take someone'siconic brand and a logo and
stick it onto ours.
There have been a couple of NFTcases in that realm.
(09:11):
So, with everyone on board,this kind of collaboration will
not only generate buzz and mediaattention.
For example, we can have TaylorSwift and the Hiltons and or
Starbucks and Kim Kardashiansomething like that where you
have two iconic brands thatbring their specific flavor to
(09:33):
the table and this way they cannow double their customer
segments.
So Starbucks has not only theStarbucks loyalists, but also
Kim Kardashian's fans will nowjump in to buy the Kardashian
designed cup or drink, and thisyou know.
(09:54):
So you're getting two for theprice of one, and I think that
is the game to be played,especially with.
We have a Gen X, we havemillennials, we have Gen Z.
Each one has differentpreferences, different likes and
dislikes, but by doing thiscross branding, this kind of
(10:16):
experience, this collaboration,I think we can now tap into
markets of the differentgenerations.
And I think another trend that Ihave noticed in this
experiential branding gosh,there's so much to say, I'm
sorry, slow me down if I am toofast is that we can create
immersive brand experiences.
(10:36):
There was a chain of hotelsthat brought in the Disney feel,
so that when you walk into theroom, I think they have patented
it as well and then they cannow monet.
They have patented it as welland then they can now monetize
their trademarks as well withthe Disney and the hotel chain
where you can choose if you wantto be the Little Mermaid, and
then the AR VR thing makes theentire room like the Little
(10:58):
Mermaid's room or her seabed,and then the same characters
that are there in LittleMermaid's room or her seabed and
then the same characters thatare there in Little Mermaid.
Now you can find AR VR versionsof them on your wall and you
can have like an interactive 3Dbath time for your child and so
on.
So this kind of experientialbranding it makes it something
(11:22):
unique that people want to thensplurge on.
People want to come andexperience it and, of course, if
you bring in Disney, then youhave the little kids involved in
this customer experience aswell.
It forges an emotional brand, aconnection with the brand,
especially if you catch themyoung.
(11:43):
And so I think if people areaware about this, they are
getting increasingly creative intheir approach to trademark
monetization.
They are open to exploringunconventional partnerships such
as hotels and Disney anddigital and AR VR kind of
(12:05):
technology.
So I think this kind of digitalinnovation is going to maximize
brand value and it is going toreally drive that revenue growth
in the months to come.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So it's unique partnerships, making sure that
you take someone who is alreadyexcelling in their own field and
looking for ways that you canexcel together.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Absolutely.
This kind of collaboration thengets you twice the fun two for
the price of one.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yeah, and I love the hotel idea.
My daughter she's only two, butshe's a huge fan of Moana, the
Disney princess, and, well, thedaughter of the chief, because
she's not a princess, so I thinkshe will be she will never
leave that room, ever.
I will have to drag her out, yes, yes.
(13:17):
So, on the same thought ofmaximizing the brands and making
sure that you get the most ofthe, to make sure that you have
your community, that your brandcreates a community, that
creates people that reallyidentify themselves with it and
it creates brand recognition.
And how can you make thecustomers your village, in a way
?
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So active supervision of how your brand is being used
, how it is being portrayed inthe media.
A lot of times we have seen inthe past where there has been
trademark genocide, there hasbeen trademark dilution, all
because there's a very fine linebetween something becoming
(14:04):
popular, becoming the buzzwordor the trendsetter, and from
there to becoming a generic word, or dilution is a very, very
small step, like onenanomillimeter in that direction
and you're gone.
We have seen it with Xerox andwe have seen it with Aspirin and
(14:28):
Zipper.
All of them have gone thegeneric side way.
Of course, xerox did manage tomake a comeback, but they still
now, if you go to the Xeroxwebsite, they take active care
in saying that do not use theword Xerox and we are monitoring
it and so on.
But in the end I think it is toolittle, too late, because where
(14:48):
I live in Goa and when I grewup in Bombay, every street had,
especially around schools andcolleges and universities there
were always little shops whicheven now say Xerox one rupee or
two rupees or whatever it is,and for that customer, even
though he is buying that machinefrom Xerox or probably now from
(15:12):
Brother, which is a well-knownbrand, I think a Japanese brand.
They are not aware, they arenot conscious that there is
something called a dilution orgenocide.
So I think if you are, if youare looking to make your
customer base your village, yourcommunity, your tribe, you also
(15:33):
have to deliver on the front,not only ideal products and
services, which of course youare good at you are going to
deliver it but also in lettingthem know that you have built a
fence around that property andyou are monitoring it and not
anyone and everyone can trespassover it.
(15:53):
You know if I'm making ananalogy to real property.
So I think you have to givethat same respect to your
customer base, to your consumerbase, to let them know that we
take this as seriously as youtake.
Because you know, as a customer,I know with a two-year-old
child you must have that thatthey walk into the store and
(16:14):
they want a particular cereal orthey want a particular
chocolate or you know, aparticular toy.
And why is that?
It is there?
Because the brand has taken allthat effort to stick that
product at that level of thechild.
You know they always put theinteresting cereals, the
sugar-loaded cereals, at theheight of two-year-old kids and
(16:39):
not at the eye level of theadults.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Oh my God yes, and the shiniest colors and and with
the cutest kind of uh, uh, petor or images.
Yeah, it's, oh no.
And then she's like she, sheloves chocolate.
Yes, even when I was umpregnant with her, I would I'd
never ate so much chocolate inmy entire life, even today, so
(17:07):
it was completely her from thewomb.
When we go to the supermarket,she says, because you cannot
pronounce chocolate, she goes.
She knows exactly what it is,she goes, takes it and then
there's no force in human naturethat can remove that chocolate
from that hand.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
No, absolutely.
And I like how veryconveniently you blame that
entire pregnancy of chocolateson her.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I like how you snag her at it.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yes, of course you are but that is the thing, that
kinder, joy and and whateverelse these kids like they have
created.
That appeal right, but theyalso have to monitor it to make
sure that, of course, yourtwo-year-old won't.
Won't mind, but you will bewary if there is someone like.
(18:00):
I don't know if it's happeningwhere you are right now, but in
india we are seeing a lot ofripoffs on Ferrero Rocher, which
is my favorite chocolate.
But then I see a lot of boxes,same design and that gold,
except that the chocolates arewrapped in shiny purple wrapper,
royal purple.
(18:20):
So it looks like, ooh, ferrerohas come up with a different
flavor or something you know.
And then you look closely andeven the writing is like perero
rocher, but it you know twowords, but it actually is
something else which, if you'rein a hurry and you're just
picking up to put in your cart,it is, it's a.
It's a trademark infringementand trade dress infringement.
(18:43):
And if I I think that, nomatter where, especially
something like Ferrero Rocher,which has far reaching consumer
base, you know, I think theyshould take an active
participation in.
If I am that loyal that when Igo to someone's house I always
give them a box of FerreroRocher, then they should also
(19:04):
take into account that theirtrademark is being diluted and
is being made generic, or theyjust don't care enough about
this market, in which case I, asa consumer base, will wonder is
this brand worth my loyalty?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, it's true, because it's a matter of do you
value yourself enough in orderto pursue any other confusion?
Because if it is to the pointthat if you really have to look
closely to make sure you don'tmake a mistake, then there's a
very high risk of customerconfusion.
(19:40):
And well, I live in Switzerlandnow and yeah, I mean you know
chocolate is like a veryimportant industry here.
But everything is about how youidentify yourself and how
customers can identify yourself.
(20:00):
If they are driven to confusion, then they most likely going to
be disappointed and they'regoing to end up even not using
your brand, because they saywell, every time I try to buy it
, I get confused.
I don't have the time to be sovigilant every time or to be
always aware.
Am I getting what I want or amI getting something else?
(20:20):
So it can also exhaust thecustomer because you have to do
like an extra legwork just tomake sure that you are not being
deceived.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And we are seeing a lot ofinflux of such trademark
infringements in Maggie, maggienoodles, which is a big you know
a big student food thing.
Here and outside schools andcolleges you'll always find
someone who's selling Maggie andMaggie and toast Maggie and
(20:56):
omelet, all kinds of things andso.
But when you go into the storesyou see someone who has the
same yellow packaging withsomething written in red and
it's just not, it's not funshopping.
Then you know if you're goingto have to weed out, like you
said.
It creates an added level of ofinertia for me to jump over
(21:22):
yeah, of course, of course.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
That's why it's important to be vigilant.
It's important to make surethat, uh, your, your customers,
are happy and you are addressingany infringement or any
confusion in the market.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Absolutely.
And I want to go back and sayone more thing about the
collaboration we were talkingabout.
Much as it sounds like I'mbeing, you know, at the risk of
saying something incorrect andstepping on anyone's toes If you
are at a particular, if youhave a niche customer base like
(22:02):
that is, one customer base of aparticular class of society,
then you should think ofconnecting with, like a cross
section, a different crosssection of society, in order you
can't keep living in an ivorytower.
You know that I'm at this level, rich, white male, let's say,
or, you know, orAfrican-American or Latina, but
(22:29):
wealthy.
You can't afford to restrictyourself to these classes
anymore when you are servicing,of course, unless it is skin
care, cosmetic cosmetics which,of course, as women you know,
every there's differentcosmetics that suit different
skins and different hairproducts and skin products.
Other than that, if I'm lookingat food and and living and food
(22:53):
and lifestyle kind of thing,then I should be open to
experimenting with a differentcross-section of society.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
You are listening to Intangiblia, the podcast of
intangible law playing talkabout intellectual property.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah, of course, to make sure that you don't limit
your trademark or your brand oryour products just to one
section.
If you can, you can enrich itand have a further reach or
further impact.
And on the cosmetics, yes, it'sextremely hard to find a brand
(23:33):
with my exact skin color,because I'm very fortunate that
I'm just in the middle ofeverything.
I either get too light for meor too dark for me, so there's
only very few brands thatactually matches my skin color
and some of them make me lookorange.
So you're the Goldilocks of thecosmetics world.
(24:01):
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm luckyenough that's very interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
so I have a friend who is finnish and so she's
extremely pale skin, then pinklips, and I'm on the brown and
with a yellow skin tone side.
I bought a set of lipstickslike four lipsticks to try, you
know, trial pack see which onesuits me.
The browns refused to even showup on my skin.
It was like I was not wearingany makeup and then I had to.
(24:29):
Then I gave her the browns andI kept the pinks for myself,
even though I wanted somethingbrown, you know a mocha shade or
something, and we just had todivide it because it refuses to
show up on my skin.
So so, yeah, so the cosmeticthing is is very true what you
said.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah, I remember growing up it was so hard to try
to do because back then it wasin magazines.
You learn in magazines like thetrends and then you would try
to replicate them on you and, ohmy God, I will never look like
the girl in the magazine.
Have you seen the smoky eyes?
(25:08):
Oh no, I have to be verycareful with smoky eyes because
I look like I have like a womanin my head, like someone hit me
in the face Right.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I look like a raccoon when I try smoky eyes.
But my fair skin friends, theygo smoky eyes and they look so
glamorous.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Flawless.
I have to.
Actually, for me it's more likelight in eyes.
I have to put a lot of white, alot of light colors in the eye
area to make it pop, because ifI put it too dark then I look
like I was in a fight.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I think we need to write to the cosmetic companies.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, don't forget about brown girls please.
Yeah, oh my god.
So let's keep on the topic, andwe're talking about trends.
We're talking about, um, allthis, this, uh, how we can uh
take on trends and make it ourown, um, like smoky eyes and so
(26:07):
forth.
And now we can talk about thebig trend of this last 10, 15
years is the influencer life,the influencer marketing, the
influencer impacts on customerand how they can really take
advantage or take a positivestep in order to have a good
(26:42):
relationship with influencers,with the influencer marketing,
and how can they make valuablecollaborations and paradigms.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Oh, you know, 20 years ago, when I started in
this field, when I started mycareer, there was no such thing
as influencer, there was no suchthing as social media.
But in today's day and age, Idon't think you can have a
conversation without bringing inthe word influencer or social
media.
You cannot have a conversationwithout it and word influencer
or social media.
You cannot have a conversationwithout it.
And every time you go toInstagram or I got an account
(27:21):
yesterday on Twitch and my kidsare very amused at me for having
an account on Twitch, but I gotin there because there was a
copyright issue on Twitch theyare sending their influencers
who violate copyright rules tocopyright school, saying you're
banned until you go and finishthis copyright school that we
(27:44):
are offering, and only if youclear it you can come back as an
influencer.
Only then will your account berestored.
So I said, ok, this is a goodchance to go and talk about
copyrights on Twitch and I madean account and my kids are
they're 13 and 15.
And they say you don't knowwhat Twitch is for, but but
trademarks do.
So you realize that even these,these platforms that are
(28:07):
tailored for Gen Zs and GenZalpha, they are keeping in mind
intellectual property, they areaware of it and whoever is
advising them they're they'restill enforcing it.
So there is a huge opportunityfor collaborative partnerships
and sponsorship deals in thisrealm of influencer marketing.
The brands are recognizing thevalue of aligning with
(28:30):
influencers, and I was reading Idon't know if you'd read about
this there's this little girlwho is now, I think, about four,
four years old or something,but she started at two, uh,
giving reviews about toys, andthen Leo, and she had her own
YouTube platform and Leo Mattelalso signed her on and they
would send her toys and shewould review it uh kind of thing
.
So, uh, so they are.
(28:53):
So brands even.
You know, every brand has it'sthe right influencer for it, uh,
where whose personal brandsresonate with the target
audience.
So, for example, I I wasadvising this uh company, very
small cosmetic company, and theywanted to grow their brand and
(29:13):
uh, without spending too much inmarketing.
So what they did was I wasn'tinvolved in this transaction,
but they went on to tie up witha beauty influencer on Instagram
to launch a limited editionmakeup collection featuring that
influencer's signature style.
So the influencer was also notso big to be on a global scale.
(29:34):
Neither was the cosmeticcompany.
But at whatever level they wereat, they did collaborate and by
using each other's personalbrand, the influencer's personal
brand and their social mediafollowing, which, if you're a
country like India, you know,and even if you're only
localized to India, we have 1billion people, so we can have a
(29:56):
huge following, social mediafollowing.
So it created a significantbuzz, drove sales and the
influencer also benefited fromthe increased exposure because
the brand was advertising.
The influencer and I also on apersonal note note I also have a
friend who is crazy about homedecor, so she keeps buying
(30:19):
curtains and and knickknacks andbecause of her shopping thing,
these brands on Instagramstarted promoting her, started
giving her products to reviewand to talk about and she makes
short reels on them and now herhouse is filled with so she
(30:39):
gives it off as gifts.
She's got a house full of allthese all these home, home
decoration, interior decoration,things that she likes and she's
.
She's an influencer in her ownright and she gets to promote
all these brands.
So they send her a box, sheunboxes it and makes a whole
video about it.
It's a lot of fun.
But in all of this they have tomake sure that the trademark is
(31:04):
visible, because that isultimately the bulwark, the
cornerstone for protecting theintellectual property right in
these collaboration and and itof course, is justified that the
that the brand requires theinfluencer to showcase the
trademark.
This way, both parties.
They maintain control overtheir brand, brand identity and
(31:26):
reputation.
So the influencer's identity isher face or hands, whatever
they like to show in the video,but at the same time showcasing
the brand's trademark.
So in this case, both to showin the video but at the same
time showcasing the brand'strademark.
So in this case, both are therein the center stage.
And whether it is co-brandedmerchandise or sponsored content
, endorsement, deals, unboxingsomething, you know, these
trademarks they provide a verystrong foundation for building
(31:50):
this kind of successfulpartnerships, especially in a
digital realm where nobody can,there's no way of going and
verifying if something is trueor not.
But if there is the backing ofan established brand behind the
influencer, then there is somekind of integrity, there is some
kind of truthfulness to what'shappening.
Otherwise, you know, I could besitting here saying I am
(32:14):
talking unboxing this bottle andthis drink, a health beverage,
and it's all it is is uh,filtered water.
So that kind of uh backing bythe, by the brand, by cosmetic
brand or whatever it is thatwe're talking about here.
It brings a sense of makes itkosher, makes it you.
Okay, everything is in orderand we are not being taken for a
(32:36):
ride.
As a customer, I know that theyare both legitimate.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Now, yeah, so it's making sure that you make the
right collaborations with theright person as well, because it
has to be an influencer or aperson who is already in that
field, in that industry, in thesector what you're talking about
.
I love the example of yourfriend that she made herself an
(33:04):
influencer just because she waspassionate about home decor and
enhancing her home, and itsounds like she has a lovely
home.
So this is something to keep inmind that to make sure that
it's not only collaborating withsomeone because they have a lot
of followers.
It's just someone that isreally is true to the word.
(33:27):
It's someone who has a goodreputation.
It's someone that is already inthe same field as your brand,
is someone that is already inthe same field as your brand is
that is going to give youpositive, is going to
collaborate with you positively.
It's going to be someone who'sgoing to contribute and not take
(33:48):
from you.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Perfect yeah, positive collaboration that
should be the terminologycollaboration.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
That should be the terminology, exactly, exactly.
So talking about the biggerpicture in the negative way.
So we have talked about all thegreat opportunities, all the
great ways in which you canactually enhance your brand and
you can monetize your brand, butnow let's talk about it in a
way that what um challenges canyou encounter in this um path of
(34:20):
monetization?
Um what, uh, what, what istypically or more commonly, um
the challenges that someonefaces in this, uh, in this way?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
okay, you know, the world has become
hyper-competitive and everyspace you go is overcrowded for
lack of a better word andirrespective of your geography,
but mainly because we've alsojust collapsed into one large
global digital village and thereare no boundaries and any kind
(34:57):
of boundaries in this digitalvillage.
So then the problem comes inmonetizing the trademark,
because every country so in thephysical realm, where we are, or
where we have boundaries and wehave territories we have
intellectual property isjurisdictional in nature,
territorial in nature.
So the laws that are there inIndia are valid in India, the
(35:19):
laws that are there inSwitzerland are valid in
Switzerland, and they can.
But what happens in thisdigital village?
What happens when we take awayall the boundaries?
And then which laws do wefollow?
So for intellectual property?
For as it is intellectualproperty or trademarks, they are
intangible in nature.
So that itself is the firstproblem.
(35:40):
But now you take thisintangible asset, you take this,
something that we cannot touch,feel, hear, smell, and then now
you put it in a world whichdoesn't have boundaries and
which, also, we cannot touch,feel, hear, see, smell.
Right, internet, what is theinternet?
So now the obstacle thenbecomes navigating the
(36:03):
intellectual property laws andregulations which are
significantly varying acrossjurisdiction.
Now we have to treat the worldas one, but having boundaries
but not having boundaries.
And so what do we do?
So I remember we had thiscompany that I was working with
(36:23):
and they were having troublewith expanding their trademark
licensing agreements in adifferent country in an
international market, becauseevery country has its own set of
legal requirements and culturalnuances and compliance becomes
an issue.
What I'm used to as a legalpractitioner in India maybe very
(36:45):
different.
What my day looks like here inIndia is very different from
what your day looks like inGeneva.
And so how do we protect ourbrands and how do we ensure
compliance across these boundarylines?
So one way to overcome thishurdle, what we did was we gave
up control and we said nowpartner with local legal experts
(37:06):
.
We will advise you from thisend, but for the local, for that
place, let's find you a localpartner.
So I'll give you, I'll draw aparallel to it.
I'm I don't know if you'llidentify with it or not in India
, about a few years till, abouta few years ago, and we still do
we have arranged marriagesright.
So in arranged marriage, the boyand the girl, the groom and the
(37:29):
bride do not meet initially.
So it's all happens at a veryhigh level.
There is a marriage broker here.
There's a marriage broker herewho are talking to the parents.
So the parents, two sets ofparents, are there, they have
their own marriage brokers andthe two marriage brokers are now
talking to each other and theynegotiate all the things like
other qualities, matching, otherhoroscopes, matching, and the
(37:52):
bride is this.
Bride is qualified, groom isqualified, bride has a job,
groom has a job geographical.
Are they willing to move?
What do they do?
Are they willing to migrate?
All that kind of things getsorted at that level of the
brokers.
So the bride and the groom theydon't have to deal with all of
this.
So if I talk about the twocompanies in different countries
as the bride and the groom,then the legal experts here and
(38:16):
there become the marriagebrokers.
So they iron out, they know thecultural nuances, they know
what could go wrong, they knowwhat are the things that needs
to be discussed, what are theterms and conditions that need
to be ironed out, and theysought all that at their level.
So we need that.
The one way to overcome thishurdle would be to partner with
(38:37):
a local legal expert who have aclearer understanding of the
regulatory landscape.
They can provide tailored,customized guidance for that
market, rather than me trying tonavigate the Switzerland legal
system.
You know, it would just be notreinventing the wheel, not be
(38:58):
worth anyone's time.
So the other problem thesebusinesses could face in in this
world is right now, uh, branddilution, which we've already
spoken about.
Um, we have, uh, it's like Isaid, everything is highly
competitive and consumerpreferences are changing.
Something is a trend todaybecause of a meme or a YouTube
(39:21):
or Instagram or TikTok reel, andthen tomorrow it is no longer
there in in the picture.
So consumer preferences and ourattention spans are decreasing
very rapidly.
So what we like today, we don'tlike tomorrow.
So how do you maintain brandconsistency?
(39:42):
How do you enforce trademarkrights?
Across this scene that isevolving so rapidly, it becomes
crucial to safeguard yourbrand's reputation, your market
position.
So I think one way of dealingwith these challenges would be
to prioritize a comprehensivetrademark protection strategy.
(40:04):
So talk about trademarkregistration, of course, but
also talk about monitoring, talkabout enforcement, talk about
Madrid protocol, which allowsyou to enter into different
markets at the same time, orthrough a one stop stop, like I
like to call it foster strongrelationships, partnerships.
Making partnerships online isso, so convenient these days on
(40:25):
LinkedIn, on and on any othersocial media I only stick to
LinkedIn because I can't handletoo much of social media but you
have access to legalprofessionals, you have access
to technology solutions forbrand monitoring who's
infringing your brand and howthe brand is doing, and so on.
We get data and statistics forevery single thing that happens
(40:49):
online today.
So if you are really seriousabout it, we should make use of
it, because these can helpnegate your risks or maybe not
negate it totally, but at leastmitigate it to an extent and
ensure compliance acrossgeographies.
You know, then, we don't.
We are not worried about whatis happening in Switzerland or
what's happening in Cambodia,for now, yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
so it's important to have the right person on your
court.
So it's important to have theright support, the right
professionals around you to makesure that you have all the
information needed to do thesteps that you need to do.
So with that, let's talk aboutthe future.
(41:32):
So how can you prepare for sucha hectic future?
Because we know everything thatis coming and is already
changing so much.
The way that we do business isconstantly evolving.
Now, with new technology, wehave even more challenges.
With AI, with enhanced realityas well, there's so many
(42:00):
technical technology part thatis already influencing on the
business, but also there's morecry for, or request or demand
for, cultural awareness, to makesure, as well, your brand is
culturally aware, is respectingother people's rights or other
(42:24):
people's way of living, and alsoyou have even a political
component sometime, according tothe type of brand that you have
.
So all of these things that youneed to be very careful to
navigate to make sure that youuse them in your advantage or in
a way that doesn't affectnegatively affect your brand.
(42:45):
So what do you foresee to bethe big changes and shape in our
future?
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Let me get my crystal ball out.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
You don't have one we all have one.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
You know, leticia, it is a very interesting and
important point.
You brought out that there iscultural nuances that we need to
be aware of.
There was a trademark dispute afew years ago in India where
someone was selling on AmazonIndia they were selling these
doormats, bathroom mats, withgods and goddesses Indian, hindu
(43:29):
gods and goddesses on it, and Idon't know how familiar you are
with the Indian culture, withthe Hindu religion, but we don't
even step on a piece of paper,because that is the goddess of
learning.
It goes to that extent.
You cannot put your foot on apen or a pencil or a piece of
paper, or kick a book oranything.
(43:50):
It is still the goddess oflearning.
So the bathroom mat with godsand goddesses on it and there
were also bathroom slippers thatthey were selling, with gods
and goddesses photo on it, andit was just so insensitive, and
Amazon had to take it off thewebsite within 24 hours.
(44:11):
So you raise a very importantpoint.
The question is, though milliondollar question is what do we do
about it?
How do we?
There are so many people inthis world and there are so many
cultures, so many religions andso many languages, so many
things.
We don't know enough about,everything that is in the world.
(44:32):
So so how do we navigate allthat?
And also with the nextgeneration?
So every other generation gapis getting smaller.
Our time it used to be I don'tknow about your time, I'm very
old it used to be 15 years andnow every seven years is a new
(44:53):
generation, so it's cut down tohalf its lifetime.
So that means that the consumerpreference, the thinking, the
mentality, the technicaladvancements, like you mentioned
, the emerging market trendseverything is moving so rapidly
that your parents' approach tobrand monetization is not going
to work anymore.
(45:14):
Brand monetization is not goingto work anymore.
So we had this consumer goodscompany that was shifting from a
brick and mortar store toe-commerce platform, and what
they did was they revamped theirtrademark monetization strategy
and started doing targeteddigital media marketing
campaigns, leveraging whateveruser-generated content is there,
(45:38):
online influencers, using allof these available tools to
promote their product.
So we, of course we are livingin fantastic times that we are
not relegated to a single modeof marketing, right?
We are not.
When I was growing up, it waseither magazines, billboards,
television or radio, and, if I'mnot mistaken correct me if I'm
(46:02):
wrong, but I think radio isstill the most expensive
platform to advertise on.
But television has vanished,billboards have vanished and
magazines have vanished.
So what remains?
And I don't know how many ofthe Gen Zs listen to radios, to
the radio.
But where have all our usualplaces, where we used to go look
(46:24):
for advertisements?
You know, I used to go tomovies, movie halls 10 minutes
in advance to watch theadvertisements, and now those
have vanished too.
We barely get any ads.
So now, I think becauseeveryone else has left those
realms and they've moved on toTikTok and whatever other
(46:45):
platforms, instagram and so on.
So this agile approach allowspeople, allows businesses, to
capitalize on emerging trends.
I think they just go where thenew generation is going.
They just follow them and seewhat they're doing.
And to answer your question, ifI gaze into my hypothetical
crystal ball, I foresee severalkey trends that shape the future
(47:10):
of brand monetization.
This rise of AI, artificialintelligence and data analytics
will enable brands to betterunderstand consumer behavior,
because you can do a lot with AIand data analytics.
You can just throw a lot ofunrelated data.
Now, I'm not saying that allthe correlation it makes is
(47:34):
correct.
You have to take it with agrain of salt.
But if you have someonereasonably sharp behind who's
operating all this AI, then theycan tell you if this
correlation that is drawn likewhether there is a connection or
there is no connection to drawsome kind of a graph you know,
correlation graph between them.
So these kinds of studies willbetter enable brands to
(47:58):
understand consumer behavior,personalize and have like a
targeted marketing effort.
Secondly, we can have there isthere is this awareness of
sustainable, growing awarenessof sustainability, corporate
social responsibility and so on.
That is driving the demand nowfor brands to align with ethical
(48:21):
values and have they know thatpeople are getting conscious
about climate change and theyare willing to do something.
And finally, the global markets.
I hate to use the wordexpansion.
I think it's expansion andcollapse at the same time,
because we are expanding interms of size, but it's a
(48:41):
collapse in terms of how closetwo people can get.
I'm sitting in Goa, you'resitting in Geneva and here we
are having this conversation.
So it's collapsed in a way andnot expanded.
So this cross-border e-commerceis going to create many more
opportunities for brands toreach diverse audiences that
they could not have imagined inour parents' age and to monetize
(49:03):
their trademarks on that scale.
Now imagine how far-reachingand huge that impact is going to
be.
On the downside, though, I musttell you that I'm worried for
the future of influencers.
Though I must tell you that I'mworried for the future of
influencers, social mediainfluencers, again, with AI,
(49:25):
there are all these AIinfluencers who have come in,
and if they are willing to dothe job for no cost, who is
going to hire influencers soreal influencers, and you can't
tell the difference apart.
I don't know if you've seen anyof them, but they look so
lifelike and in this.
So, if I'm getting immaculatecontent and delivery without all
(49:46):
the, all the diva and the andthe Prima Dona.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Without dealing with a person.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
Okay, you said it Without dealing with a person
People.
They said it Without dealingwith a person People.
They're just bags of chemicals.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Right Now you take away the chemicals and you have
everything else.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
I don't know what is going to happen to social media
influencers.
But, having said that, I thinkbrands are going to be better
positioned in the coming daysbecause there's going to be
better readability into theconsumer's mindset, a better
prediction of what people aregoing to go towards next, what
is the next trend going to be.
(50:23):
So, in that sense, brands aregoing to get be able to
extrapolate that graph and get ajump on to how the behavior is
going to be and target that, andso we better watch out be and
target that, and so we betterwatch out.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
yeah, it's true, it's true, there's so many, so so
many jobs and positions that aiis gonna make obsolete.
Uh, so we, we need to be uhvigilant with that and also move
accordingly and changeaccordingly and and adapt
ourselves, because, uh,technology is not gonna stop,
something that we have learned,learned from the beginning of
history, from the beginning ofhumankind technology, innovation
(51:01):
is never going to stop.
We just need to adapt and makeourselves better thanks to the
technology that we have at hand.
So, thank you so much for yourtime, thank you so much for
sharing with us.
It's been an immense pleasureto get to know you, to
understand better the great workthat you do, and also, I would
(51:23):
like to ask you if you can tellus where we can find you, if
someone wants furtherinformation or someone wants to
hire your services in India aswell.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Sure, I am there on LinkedIn a lot more than I would
like to admit.
You can find me on LinkedIn asShalini Menezes and otherwise.
All my information is availableon LinkedIn, so you can just
look me up there.
I will share the link with youif you need.
Perfect.
Thank you so much.
(51:55):
Thank you for having me here onthis podcast, leticia.
I enjoyed speaking to you.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
Thank you, it's my pleasure.
We have reached the end of ourepisode.
Greetings from Switzerland.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Thank you for listening to Intangiblia, the
podcast of intangible law plaintalk about intellectual property
.
Did you like what we talkedtoday?
Please share with your network.
Do you want to learn more aboutintellectual property?
Subscribe now on your favoritepodcast player.
Follow us on Instagram,facebook, linkedin and Twitter.
(52:30):
Visit our websitewwwintangibliacom.
Wwwintangibliacom.
Copyright Leticia Caminero 2020.
All rights reserved.
This podcast is provided forinformation purposes only.
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