July 15, 2026 • 33 mins
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Why do the same fears, addictions, conflicts, and unhealthy patterns keep appearing throughout a family? You may deeply love Jesus and still feel trapped by something you can't seem to overcome.
Charity and Tania explain how generational strongholds take root, how they differ from ordinary habits, and why inherited family patterns can feel like part of your identity. Tania also shares her personal journey of finding freedom from a deeply rooted stronghold of fear.
Through Scripture and honest conversation, they explore deliverance, healing, breaking agreement with lies, and the difference between spiritual oppression and possession. You'll discover how to invite the Holy Spirit into these wounded places and pursue lasting freedom without fear, shame, or condemnation.
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Intentional Breakthrough Resources:
THE BOOK: Intentional Breakthrough by Charity Gurtler
https://a.co/d/08wOsvMY
Intentional breakthrough is possible when we align ourselves with God’s love and truth. You don’t have to sit and wait for your breakthrough to happen. Healing and restoration are attainable. Begin your journey today.
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https://intentionalbreakthrough.com/
https://www.anchoredbiblicalcounseling.org/
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
And what happens with these generational things,
these generational dysfunctions,is you're born into them.
We all were.
We all were.
Um you're born into differentthings that are not perfectly
healthy, like a culture ofshame, a culture of fear.
And it's so easy to take them onbecause number one, it was
normalized in your family, andnumber two, you weren't given
the tools to actually navigateit in a healthy way.
So it was kind of like a slamdunk, you know.
(00:22):
It was gonna start to you'regonna start to adopt those
behaviors and and and those thatstronghold really, and it gets a
place in you.
But it's not irreversible.
It's not.
(00:49):
I've been hearing about a lot ofpeople just this idea is
starting to come to them.
Like, gosh, I think there'sgenerational things in my family
passing down and kind of just anew topic and exploring how to
even go after that.
Um, so let's start.
What is a stronghold, Tanya, andwhat's a generational
stronghold?
SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
Yeah.
So we we do have the differencebetween I'll start with
strongholds because this is kindof the gist, and then define
what a generational strongholdlooks like.
Um, but a stronghold is morethan just like a bad habit.
It is something that you justcan't seem to get ground over.
Something that seems to the onething that popped in my head,
and I'm just gonna put it outthere, um, sometimes, and this
(01:27):
is a struggle that's prevalentwith men, but also we're seeing
a greater prevalence with womenstruggling with pornography.
Um, so somebody who's like, Iknow it's bad, I know it's
hurting me, I know it's nothealthy for me or in my
relationship, but I can't seemto put it down.
Or addiction.
Um, I know smoking is bad, Iknow drinking is bad, and and I
(01:50):
just can't seem to put it down.
So a stronghold is somethingthat has uh like a uh a hold on
you that is more than just a badhabit.
Um, like I can have a bad habitand just be like, you know what,
bite biting my nails.
I used to bite my nails reallybad when I was younger.
And at one point I was like, youknow what?
I just don't want to do thisanymore.
I don't want to bite my nails.
(02:11):
I want to let them grow.
Um, and it was really hard, butit but I was able to get over
that bad habit.
That's so that's not like astronghold.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (02:19):
Well, honestly, I would say that bad habit was
probably just a symptom ofpotentially a deeper stronghold
of anxiety or fear or whateverelse.
But yeah, that was just asymptom of what you're going
through.
SPEAKER_00 (02:30):
I love that because you're right.
So another stronghold is fear.
If you seem to be fearful ofsomething, and it's not just
like, oh, I'm afraid of heights,or you know, I uh I had an
experience with a stronghold offear that was tormenting me.
So a stronghold is somethingthat you find torment over that
you seem to be oppressed by thathas some level of authority over
(02:54):
you.
Okay.
Now, generational strongholds, alittle little difference is you
can identify a genergenerational stronghold with a
pattern throughout umgenerations.
So when people are talking to meand they say, Yeah, you know, my
my dad struggles withalcoholism, and so did his dad,
and so did his mom, it's like,okay, now we see a generational
(03:16):
stronghold of addiction oralcoholism throughout the
family.
Or uh sometimes judgment isanother big one.
So we can have a spirit ofjudgment, a stronghold of
judgment where we find ourselvesjudgmental towards other people.
But then when you talk tosomeone and they're like, yeah,
well, all the women in ourfamily seem to be very
judgmental.
We all have very strongopinions.
(03:37):
Now we're talking aboutgenerational strongholds.
So a little bit different.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
That's great, Tanya.
Thank you.
Um, in that book, IntentionalBreakthrough, uh I just wonder
the definition on there is astronghold is a position
fortified and defended forsecurity or survival.
In a battle, it's a placecontrolled by a side where they
can set up camp and launchlaunch attacks on nearby areas.
Strongholds can exist in ourthoughts, feelings, actions, and
(04:03):
therefore our lives.
They can be held by the enemy orby Christ.
So it's almost like this areathat's just gotten fortified
over time for somethingspecific.
It could be good or bad.
There could be a stronghold ofjoy in our life, which would be
is wonderful, but there could bea stronghold of fear.
And it's almost like astronghold, like from that
place, that it gets held withinour heart, and from that place
(04:25):
the enemy attacks and tries toexpand and grow.
And it's like we got to getright at the stronghold at the
root of that before we can,before we can move forward.
Yeah.
In 2 Corinthians 10, 4, um, inthe Bible it says, for the
weapons are of our warfare arenot of the flesh, but have
divine power to destroystrongholds.
So that talks about thosespiritual weapons.
(04:47):
We can destroy strongholds inour lives and in our families'
life, in our the family line.
So okay, so how have you seenthem?
Talk more a little bit about howyou've seen them express.
Um, so if you're if someonecomes to you for counseling and
what would they be saying ordoing that would pinpoint you to
be like, oh, we're dealing withlike with a generational
stronghold.
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Okay, I'm gonna give you a real life example that
happened to me where I was ableto identify I had a stronghold
of fear.
Um, and I if I have to thinkreally hard about it, it I mean,
fear is one of those that'spretty broad that most families
are gonna deal with that.
But for me, like I'll give youthe symptoms that I was able to
say, oh, okay, this is astronghold of fear.
(05:30):
Um, I would have, ever since Iwas a child, I was afraid of the
dark.
Okay, but it was it was beyondjust being afraid of the dark.
It lasted well into adulthood.
Probably like until until I wasdelivered from a spirit of fear.
Um, I was afraid of the dark.
I would not get up in the middleof the night to use the bathroom
because I didn't like it to bedark in the house.
(05:51):
I didn't like it to be dark downthe hallway.
And then like I felt like therewas always something there in
the hallway staring at me.
I would have nightmares all thetime.
Um, but it was it wascontrolling me even control.
So you listen to the language.
It was controlling me.
So I was fearful of ourfinances.
Um, we went through like 20,2009, like that whole economy
(06:12):
thing was was a bad time for alot of people.
But I was very fearful of ourfinances, even though we were
very secure where we are now.
Um, I was fearful of my for mychildren, like what if something
happens to them?
So it was controlling my lifeand behavior.
So again, hear the language,controlling.
It was something negative thatwas controlling me.
And so yeah, it was but that wasa lot of the symptoms, is just
(06:36):
fear of everything.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
So would you say talked about those thoughts that
can come into our head andrecognizing wait, those are
lies.
But would you say like thethoughts were coming in and you
couldn't even recognize them aslies?
It just felt like truth and youcouldn't even stop yourself from
believing them.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
That's kind of what you would say define controlling
as?
I would say that there aredifferent layers of that fear.
So the financial fear, yes, wasmore of a lie that was coming
through.
So that I could identify it as alie.
And so there was a a triggerthat happened, you know, when in
2009, um, the economy crashed,my husband lost his job.
(07:11):
Like it was just a veryfinancially difficult time for
us.
So that is a trigger that wasconnected to a lie.
So then the lie is, well, we gotto be careful because it it
could happen again.
And of course, like it can'thappen again.
But it but it was controllinglike watch our spending, make
sure we have plenty of savings.
Um, so things like that.
So that is more of a of asmaller fear, like byproduct.
(07:36):
The strong that was a lie.
That was connected to a lie.
That this God's not protectingyou or God won't give you the
finances you he's not providinghis daily bread.
That's the lie.
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
The stronghold is more of it was something that's
not even a thought.
It is just a natural state ofbeing, of being fearful,
nightmares, afraid of the dark,um, afraid of you know, like
movies and stuff.
I mean, all uh it was more ofit.
The only way I can describe it,it was so ingrained, because
(08:08):
what I'm seeing right now islike roots deep into my core
that it was a part of me.
That's a stronghold.
So there's a difference betweenthe lie piece and the
stronghold, right?
Yeah.
So, but it's all connected insome way because that root of
fear that was part of my core,being a fearful person now
affects my relationships in alldifferent areas.
(08:30):
So was this a generationalstronghold?
I am thinking, yeah, it has tobe.
Uh because if I look back at myfamily, yeah, absolutely.
Like my siblings, I believe, arestill struggling with that.
It's still kind of a root inthere, uh, which would stem from
my mom.
(08:51):
Yeah, yeah.
I so I can see it in differentparts of my family.
SPEAKER_02 (08:54):
Yeah.
I work with people very often umwith different things, and most
things actually are.
Most things are passed down.
And like we talked about in thelast episode, many times
unknowingly by our parents, theytried their best.
It was passed down.
And, you know, hopefully theypassed it down in a better, you
know, play than what theyreceived, and sometimes they
didn't.
But but yeah, it's almosteverything tends to be passed
(09:16):
down.
And what happens with thesegenerational things, these
generational dysfunctions isyou're born into them.
We all were, we all were.
Um, you're born into differentthings that are not perfectly
healthy, like a culture ofshame, a culture of fear.
And you just as a baby, child,you know, young adult, you take
these things.
It's so easy to take them onbecause number one, it was
(09:36):
normalized in your family.
And number two, you weren'tgiven the tools to actually
navigate it in a healthy way.
So it was kind of like a slamdunk, you know, it was gonna
start to, you're gonna start toadopt those behaviors and and
and those that stronghold,really.
And it gets a place in you.
But it's not irreversible.
It's not.
So talk about your journey toget free.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:56):
You know, the the crazy thing is there were two
moments, two defining momentswhere I really saw.
And so a little bit of this toois like we've got to understand
neuroscience, um, neuralpathways in the brain.
Like our brain is likeplasticity, and it's proven that
over time you can reinforcecertain thoughts and behaviors
(10:16):
by by coming to agreement withit over and over, habits that we
do over and over.
The beauty of that is that itcan change because we can
actually change ourneuropathways by making a
cognitive decision to stop.
So there is there arestrongholds and then there's
habits that reinforce thosestrongholds.
So, my experience, I was, I wasactually at a deliverance
(10:39):
ministry in Phoenix that was alittle uh, what's the word I'm
looking for?
Traumatic is the best way that Icould describe it.
And so I was there because I wassupporting somebody else.
And then someone just came, youknow, to talk to me and they're
like, oh, I'm gonna pray overyou.
And they started praying overme.
And I literally felt, and I sayliterally, like I felt something
(11:01):
that was almost like grabbing myrib cage from the inside and it
was being pulled out.
And and she said it was a spiritof fear.
And I I felt this spirit likebeing ripped out of me.
And I know that sounds thatagain, we're talking about the
supernatural.
Okay, this is the experiencethat I had.
Um, and there was such a reliefthat came from that.
So that so it was traumaticbecause it was a traumatic
(11:23):
experience, and I felt um notwell supported during that
process, like after the thedeliverance, there was a lot of
things.
SPEAKER_02 (11:32):
There wasn't a lot of explanation, there wasn't a
lot of gentleness, there wasn'ta lot of like loving you as the
person for who you are.
It was just sort of like a comein and bah, what just happened,
sort of a thing.
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But but there was there wasfreedom that came with that
because I think I do I I haveexperienced it before
deliverance can be effective,but it can also be traumatic to
the the person.
And we we have the care ofsouls, like the care of the
individual.
We want to make sure not onlythat they're delivered, but that
they remain free from bondage.
So that deliverance did happen.
(12:01):
There was still a layer of thisfear though.
So when that happened, thenightmare stops.
Yeah, go ahead.
No, that's what I was gonna ask.
What happened after that?
So after the nightmare stops,the tour, I'm not afraid of the
dark anymore.
Just like, I don't know, it'slike a light switch.
Nothing.
It's just it's weird to explain.
I'm not afraid of the dark.
I get up in the middle of thenight, I can look down the
hallway, I'm not afraid.
(12:22):
This this sense of fear, I mean,there was this covering of fear
that was over me.
So that did relief.
However, I had another ahamoment experience that was tied
to the spirit of fear that wasfrustrating because I'm like,
this spirit is I'm relieved ofit, but I'm still, I would, I
would have um moments where Iwould was asked to speak at
(12:44):
certain different events, likepublic speaking, uh, on a topic
that I was very confident in.
And also I've had people say,like, you're really good at
doing this, like it's really youreally should do this.
I would say yes to speakingengagements.
And then as I was coming up tothat event, anxiety would
overwhelm me to the point that Iwould almost make myself sick.
I was like, I don't want to dothis.
How do I get at it?
(13:05):
Like it's awful.
And I was sharing it.
This is where wise discernmentcame in, because I was sharing
it with a really good friend ofmine at the time, and she looked
at me and she said, That's aspirit of fear.
And I was like, Oh my gosh.
And then she was like, I rebukethat spirit of fear, you know,
in the name of Jesus, like overme.
And I was so angry because I'mlike, that that enemy, he still
had me.
(13:25):
And I was still coming intoagreement with that spirit of
fear when she spoke that overme, like it just severed.
Uh, and then and then of courseI still don't particularly like
doing speaking and engagements,it's not my favorite, but I'll
do it.
But the fear, the anxiety pieceof it was gone.
So that was my two experienceswith like actually being
delivered from, I believe, thestronghold.
(13:47):
And then the other piece waslike there was there was just
something still lingering thathad to be released from.
And then it was changing theneuropathways.
SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
So why do you okay?
No, keep going.
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
It's like changing the neuropathways.
Yeah.
Yeah, there has to be a piece ofit too where I had to stop
agreeing with the lie, you know,that's like, oh, you're gonna be
anxious, you're gonna benervous, like yeah, you know,
why do you do this?
Like, why do you agree to thesethings when you don't really
like to do it?
You know, it's so I had to breakthat neuro, I had to create a
new neuropathway.
(14:20):
Only say yes to the those whoare truly passionate.
Yes.
So you say the lies still.
Yeah, so because it's it's likeyou said in the last episode, is
like, yes, we know unforgivenessis is the the planting the
seeds, the lies is like wateringthese seeds to plant this root,
this stronghold.
The the stronghold is the root.
I'm such a visual person, sothat's how I'm that's now how
(14:42):
I'm envisioning it.
Yeah, but yeah, so I had tobreak the lies.
SPEAKER_02 (14:46):
Yeah, so how would you explain to people that you
had to get delivered twice?
Why?
Why not just once?
SPEAKER_00 (14:54):
I think I asked you this once, and one of the best
explanations that you've said tome is the garden.
It's it's that there aredifferent parts of your garden.
So the root comes in and it'slike an infection, and so it
spreads this infection todifferent parts of the garden,
right?
And so when we pull up the root,so we take that splinter out of
(15:14):
the ground or out of sometimes.
I I do the analogy is likeyou've got a thorn under your
skin.
Uh, and if you put ointment onthe top, like you haven't really
taken that thorn out.
So you take the thorn out thatis pulling up the stronghold,
and then you have to work on thelies.
Well, what lies were leftbehind?
Or like different parts of thegarden that you have to work on
(15:34):
because it it infected otherparts of the garden.
Maybe not as strong because itwasn't as strong.
As soon as my friend called itout and I realized what it was,
I was like, oh my gosh, theenemy's getting at me again.
I said a couple curse words tohim.
No, that's it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:51):
That's what I say too.
It's just it's thatunderstanding that we we have
parts, we have parts of us.
Like there's a part of me thatfeels confident in this
situation, but oh, but thenthere's a part of me that feels
afraid.
And it's understanding that andand that the fact that the Lord
brings healing to each of thoseparts.
So it's like each little sectionof the garden, you know.
And so we go through one areaand find that cultivated and get
(16:12):
that healed, but now there'sanother part over here, and and
it could pop up, you know,different things could pop up in
different places.
And so it's just following hislead.
There's no way any of us couldfigure this out.
It's literally like, HolySpirit, where are we going
today?
Lead me today, uh, where youwould like to heal.
And he does, and he does a greatjob healing through that.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
So let me ask you a question.
Um, because there are someschools of thoughts.
And again, you know, we're we'retalking about the supernatural
here.
So we don't have everything, weonly know what scripture tells
us to go by, you know, word forword.
Everything outside of that, it'slike these are just schools of
thoughts.
So one school of thought, andthis is where I'm like kind of
thinking what I was dealingwith, like stage fright could be
(16:52):
a part of, anyways.
The school of thought is we havea strong man or the strong man.
Have you heard this languagebefore?
The strong man?
Yeah.
Okay.
So fear would be the strong man.
So think of it like a general,like we're talking about like an
army of the the enemy, and sothe general is fear, and then
he's got soldiers underneath ofhim.
(17:13):
And so I I feel like breakingthat strong man of fear, pulling
that out, is what then exposedthis uh, you know, stage fright,
whatever it is, like whateverthat's gonna be.
SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
Yeah, the little things that were still the
little root tendrils that stillwere scattered throughout, but
like it was much different thanbecause that the the head was
gone, basically.
SPEAKER_00 (17:37):
Yes, exactly.
What do you think about that?
So with when we talk about thatlanguage of like the strong man.
SPEAKER_02 (17:43):
Yeah, I I've never necessarily used strongman in in
those terms, but I can see howthat would fit.
It um that definitely fits.
I see that a lot walking peoplethrough deliverance and healing,
um, freedom is yeah, there'slike that one big initial big
breakthrough, but it doesn'tmean that particular stronghold
isn't gonna show up in otherparts and areas of their life.
(18:04):
But every time we come upagainst it, it's less and less
and less and until one day it'sgone, you know.
But yeah, there is that usuallythat big initial break.
But after that big initialbreak, it's like the person's so
much more free to think clearlyin those areas.
So yeah, like but you were awareof the stage fright, but that
was like a a situation-specificthing.
(18:26):
It was like this happens justwhen this was, it wasn't like an
all-consuming all the time typeof thing.
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
Right.
And there is so we go toscripture, we can look at like
the language of the strongman.
So I think it's uh Mark, it'sMark chapter three, verse 27.
It says, But no one can enter astrong man's house and plunder
his goods unless he first bindsthe strongman, and indeed he may
plunder his house.
So I I wonder too if thatbecause that language is in
scripture, if that's so that'swhy I've heard the word
(18:53):
strongman used before.
And so it's like you've got tobind, so in a way you bind the
strongman or you pull that rootout, right?
And then that's when you can gothrough and get the the the rest
of the army and attack them.
SPEAKER_02 (19:06):
Let's yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
Let's talk a little bit aboutbecause you talked about this
deliverance experience beingtraumatic.
Um, and we love to walk peoplethrough it in a lot much more
gentle way.
So, what does that look like?
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
Like uh guided prayer sessions versus a
deliverance.
Yeah.
Um I I have seen so that andagain, this is I think it is
preference and I think it istools, and I think it is a base
in knowledge.
And so I do want to just statefrom the get-go that I have seen
deliverance be very effective.
(19:39):
I've experienced it myself.
I've I've walked other peoplethrough it, I've seen it be very
effective.
What happens sometimes is I feellike it can go a little faster
than the body is ready for, orlike the emotional state of the
individual is ready for.
Um, while it's effective.
So there is also scripture whereyou know Jesus warns like if you
(20:00):
you cast out these seven demonsand then you sweep your
household nice and clean, but ifyou don't fill it with the
spirit, in essence, what it'ssaying, if you don't fill it
with the Holy Spirit, then itcan come back and it'll bring,
or you've cast one out and it'llbring seven more back, that's
even worse than the before.
So I have seen um that you castout, you know, a strong man, for
(20:21):
example, stronghold or you know,generational spirit.
And then if the person is justnot emotionally or spiritually
mature enough to recognize theschemes of the enemy, it can
come back.
Uh and so with the guided prayersessions, the reason that I I
find it more effective, as it islonger, okay, it does take more
time, but it's at the pace ofthe individual because we let
(20:42):
the Holy Spirit lead.
And so what the spirit willreveal what the we don't know,
you and I don't know.
You know, as humans, we don'tknow what the individual's ready
for.
And I do, I'll be honest, I getimpatient sometimes.
I'm like, just get that thingout.
But if they're not ready, thespirit's gonna lead you slower.
And it's and yeah, there's gonnabe layers.
It's like an archaeology dig.
SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
We gotta dig nice and slow, gentle, gentle.
Yeah, but it leaves the personin a much better place and it
leaves them connected to theLord.
I think that's why I'mpassionate about that too, is
because we're not just steppingin, doing some work and leaving,
and the person's like, what justhappened?
Where's the Lord?
How do I find him?
How do I, what's even going on?
It's like we're coming and justand it's realizing that that
(21:26):
stronghold's there because it'sa root, it's a root that's
connected.
So we cut all those ties of thatroot.
It naturally leaves.
Like it just the healinghappens.
And that person, though, hasdeveloped a history and a
journey with the Lord in thatprocess.
Usually we meet with people inabout an hour and a half, and
there's a the walk with the Lordis deepened during that time
because they're connected to Himthe whole time.
(21:47):
And it's just so gentle and it'sfilled with His love and His
truth.
And they leave not only free,but they leave connected to the
Lord and having built theirfoundation in the history with
the Lord.
And that's the goal is that theyleave connected to.
Ham because I have too.
I've seen um I've seen somereally really sad endings when
people do get delivered andaren't able to maintain it.
(22:10):
And so that's not every time,but but I love being able to
walk people through it and it'slike a of course they're gonna
be able to maintain it becauseit was the healing happened with
the deliverance.
It wasn't just deliverance, itwas deliverance and healing.
When healing takes place,deliverance naturally occurs, it
just naturally happens.
Okay, so I talked back inepisode three, I think, about my
(22:30):
experience with spiritualwarfare and realizing like this
dark thing left me, right?
And then last week's episode, Italked about the forgiveness the
Lord had brought me through thisbank blank sheet of paper, and I
just forgave like dozens anddozens of people.
And then a few months later, Ihad that phone call with someone
where um we walked through allthese lies and broke them and
replaced them with the truth.
And it was only like veryshortly after that that I had
(22:53):
that instance where there's thisdark thing.
I told it to leave and it left.
But that's why it was so easybecause all the root tendrils
had been cut, all theforgiveness, the Lord had walked
me through that, all thebreaking of the lies, replacing
with the truth.
And then it came down to thatmoment and God said, Tell that
thing to go, and I told it to goand it left.
And it was easy because I'd walkHe had walked me through all of
(23:15):
the healing that needed tohappen.
Does that make sense?
And I didn't put that in thewater until years later.
Yeah.
So I was healed though, and Istayed healed, and it wasn't
hard to stay healed because Iwas healed.
I was free.
I was free and I stayed free,but it wasn't hard to stay free
because I was healed.
unknown (23:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:33):
So the healing takes place when you do it this way.
But it does take a little bitlonger.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:38):
And and that's not to discredit, again, it's not to
discredit other methods or thatother methods aren't effective
because I again I haveexperienced it can be effective.
It's the um, we talked aboutanother episode.
There's a time and a place toboth, maybe.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:55):
There could be a time and a place to both.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Yeah.
We talked about the ongoingprocess.
So so this is two where I findit can be discouraging for
people because again, the weedscome back in your garden.
If you're not constantly, if ifanybody has, and I know we live
in Arizona, so we don't gardenoutside, but in Virginia, when I
did garden outside, there wasthere would weeds come up?
If you don't tend to the garden,the weeds are gonna come back.
(24:19):
So I think what the strugglessometimes to, again, about the
carousels for the individual, isthat somebody walks through
deliverance and they rebuke thespirit of fear, they rebuke this
spirit, all these oppressivespirits that have been
controlling and and dominatingtheir lives and oppressing them.
And then what happens when sixmonths later, a year later, two
years later, now they're feelingthis oppression come back and
(24:41):
they're like, oh gosh, well,what happened?
It didn't work, or or what did Ido wrong, or I backslid, or it's
like, no, it's like spiritualmaturity is an ongoing process
of forgiveness, recognizingthis.
Yeah, because listen, the devilis crafty, he's been doing this
way longer than any of us haveever been in alive.
And so if he can't get youthrough one stronghold, trust
(25:02):
me, he's gonna try another.
He's gonna be like, pull mybeer.
SPEAKER_02 (25:07):
Yes.
But here's what I learned hegets in through the cracks, say
the cracks in the armor.
So we can ask the Lord, God,where is this crack in my armor?
Where is this dent in theshield?
Can we can you lead me tohealing in this area?
And he does.
And I'm telling you, thosearrows that used to shoot
through the shield and hit theopening in the shield and like
get you.
When we take that time and askthe Lord, let's heal this part
(25:28):
of the shield, they come andthey just bounce right off and
you don't even feel it.
You're like, oh, yeah.
I used to be afraid in thissituation.
I don't even feel fear anymore.
It's like I used to be afraid,and then I was aware of fear,
and then I was like, okay, feargo, but it was still kind of
there.
It was a struggle.
And then when the healing was inthat area was completed, I don't
even feel it.
I just feel his joy and I feelhis expectancy.
(25:49):
I feel faith instead, likenaturally feel faith.
Faith is evidence.
Faith isn't something we rev upon our own.
Faith is evidence.
It comes from the encounter withthe Lord, the healing.
So yeah, that just happened.
I just uh worked with somebodyand it ended up going pretty
long.
Um, it wasn't typically thesession is about an hour and a
half, but there's just a lot weneed to work through.
And there was, there wasdeliverance, there was freedom,
(26:13):
and there was real change.
And they even told me, they'relike, I am forever changed.
I am forever changed.
But then they said, you knowwhat?
But can we meet again?
Because there's more.
There's yeah, I'm still noticingthere's more.
I noticed the freedom in thisarea, but then this area,
there's still something more.
And I was like, okay, yeah,let's go after this part.
Like there's there's theseparts, and we will constantly be
(26:33):
working through these parts.
When we're going through acrisis, like a lot of parts all
at once, but we can get to thatplace where, okay, all right,
this part of my garden of myheart is cultivated.
Okay, God, let's go after thisone now.
And it gets to a more of apeaceful place.
But when you're just gettingstarted, I'd give this analogy
all the time.
It feels like a jungle.
Like when I just was gettingstarted with this, it felt like
a jungle, and I'm chopping treesand I'm pulling up roots and I'm
(26:53):
pulling down vines and doing allthis work.
And I step back and I'm like,it's still a jungle.
Like I can hardly even tell Idid any work.
We just keep going with the HolySpirit, and He just does all
this healing, all of this workinside of you.
And at this point today, I cansay, like, I live in this
cultivated garden, and it's justpeaceful, and there's still
stuff to deal with, but I havethe tools.
I know how to deal with it andhow to, you know, clear this
(27:15):
area, but I live in thispeaceful place.
Um, we have to close that, but Ihave a quick question for you.
I know that there's some peoplethat are gonna be like, okay, I
am dealing with a generationalstronghold.
There's gonna be a lot of peoplewho are like, yeah, I feel I
mean, I'm fine.
Like, yeah, I struggle withfear.
I struggle, you know, sometimesI'm afraid.
Sometimes me and my spouseargue.
I don't really know why stuffcomes up, but I that can't be
(27:37):
like a stronghold, is it?
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
What would you say?
Well, I want to, I I want tomake sure we're very clear that
stronghold is not a measurementof your faith or your
relationship with Christ.
Okay, so some people are arewould hear stronghold and they
would get offended, whichoffends.
unknown (27:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
If you're offended by something, like, you know,
look, find out why you'reoffended.
So some people are like, oh no,I don't, I'm a Christian.
I'm a baptized believer.
I don't have any strongholds.
On this side of eternity, theenemy is going to constantly try
to attack us and go after us,get through us through our
family, our our children, ourspouses, our friends, our
relationships.
(28:15):
On this side of eternity, everysingle Christian believer will
be tormented to some degree oranother.
I I think it's just a reality ofit because the enemy has some
level of influence from astronghold.
Is that what you're saying?
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And some more degrees thanothers.
Um, you know, like sometimes I Ijust I hear Christians be like,
(28:37):
well, no, Christians can't beoppressed.
Now there is a difference.
I don't know if we talked aboutthis before.
There is a difference betweenpossession and oppression.
Okay.
Oppression is just influence,like you said.
I love that word.
Um, we're not possessed becauseour spirit belongs to Christ.
What do you think?
SPEAKER_02 (28:53):
But you did use the word control.
Like you were that spirit offear was controlling you.
Yeah.
Is that different thanpossession?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
Because uh well, I think that our our thoughts of
like what The Exorcist or allthose other, which I don't watch
those movies anymore because Ican't because they terrify me,
which is a reason why I don'twatch them.
But those types of movies willkind of um, you know, like your
body, your head is spinningaround and you're vomiting, and
you're like your body is likeclimbing the walls and stuff.
(29:22):
That is a different level oflike that's possession where a
spirit can actually control yourbody.
Let's go back to scripture.
So the man, um, when Jesuscrossed the sea, and then he was
on the other side, and there wasthat man that was cutting
himself with rocks and he hadthe lesion in him.
Yeah, he was possessed bylegions of demonic entities, and
(29:44):
so Jesus actually cast thosedemons into a horde of pigs that
then killed themselves, right?
So that is like possession whencontrolling oppression is more
of like something that iscontrolling your behavior, and I
say controlling not in a senseof like greatly influencing,
yeah, greatly influencing.
It's not like a puppet masterwhere like the you know, the
(30:05):
stronghold is like, oh, I'mgonna make you do this.
But this is the way to describeit is like the oppression is so
heavy that the enemy can whispersomething to you in your ear
because that's what happens, andthen you react to it and you act
on it.
So there's levels of influence,but yeah, I go ahead.
Well, I was thinking people,yeah, back to like my my fear,
(30:27):
the one that I had.
Um, I here is like a perfectexample.
I would wake up in the middle ofthe night and like, oh, I have
to go use the bathroom.
And so that's my first thought.
And then immediately be like,there's something under the bed,
there's something in the closet,something's gonna grab you
outside of the bathroom,something is down the hallway.
That's the oppression that theenemy is planting thoughts in my
mind that then controls mybehavior.
(30:49):
Now I'm like, well, I'm gonnahold it till the morning.
What time is it?
Okay, it's only four o'clock.
I can wait two more hours.
That's the I have come intoagreement with those lies.
So the control, that's mybehavior.
SPEAKER_02 (31:00):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah.
I think just the word controlmakes people think of
possession, but that's not whatyou're trying to say.
It's like greatly influencing tothe point where it's affecting
your behavior and affecting thedecisions that you make.
And there is levels of that.
There's and especially whenpeople start finding freedom,
it's really hard to break free,but then they start getting to
that place where they're awareof it, but maybe still can't
(31:23):
like change their behavior, butthen they start to maybe make
decisions that are against it,and then they start to break
free of it.
Yeah.
And so people are can beanywhere in that spectrum.
Um, but just if something isinfluencing, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:35):
Well, one one more just example of what happened,
like after this deliverance ofthe spirit of fear.
It wasn't like immediately Iwoke up and then like everything
was fine.
I also did have to constantlyremind myself of God's truth.
So there were times now, it wasgreatly different.
It was before where it felt likeit was on my body and all over
me, the spirit of fear.
(31:56):
Now it's like it was on theoutside trying to get in.
Like you said, it would throwlittle darts like and hit and
hit the armor.
Yeah.
And so there were a few timesthat I would wake up and I would
feel this presence.
And I was like, okay, Lord, Iknow you're greater.
I know you're stronger.
If there is something herethat's trying to make me afraid,
like, Lord, I I know that youare here, you protect me, you
(32:18):
love me, that your power isgreater than anything that's
trying to oppress me right now.
And I would say that out loud.
And then I would boldly say, youknow what?
I'm not going to come intoagreement with that spirit of
fear.
And I would get up out of thatand I would force myself to use
the bathroom just to not becontrolled by that fear.
So I know we're running, we'rerunning over our time, but you
got me going.
You gotta stop, but we'll justfinish.
SPEAKER_02 (32:39):
We're gonna have to do this next time.
Okay.
Ephesians 6 13.
Having done all but stand, standfirm.
So you did the all, broke thefear, broke the strongman, broke
the lies, found the truth, andthen there was that moment where
you had to stand firm and thenfinally gave up and it was gone.
That is that's a really commonpattern.
Okay, we gotta close up, butwe're gonna have to get into
this again because I think youhave a lot more to say.
(33:00):
So next time we'll just keepgoing.
All right, thanks for tuning in.
If you want more information,anchored biblical
counseling.org, intentionalbreakthrough.com.
If you have any questions, putit in the comments.
We love answering questions.
So, okay, until next time.
See you next time.
And what happens with these generational things,
these generational dysfunctions,is you're born into them.
We all were.
We all were.
Um you're born into differentthings that are not perfectly
healthy, like a culture ofshame, a culture of fear.
And it's so easy to take them onbecause number one, it was
normalized in your family, andnumber two, you weren't given
the tools to actually navigateit in a healthy way.
So it was kind of like a slamdunk, you know.
(00:22):
It was gonna start to you'regonna start to adopt those
behaviors and and and those thatstronghold really, and it gets a
place in you.
But it's not irreversible.
It's not.
(00:49):
I've been hearing about a lot ofpeople just this idea is
starting to come to them.
Like, gosh, I think there'sgenerational things in my family
passing down and kind of just anew topic and exploring how to
even go after that.
Um, so let's start.
What is a stronghold, Tanya, andwhat's a generational
stronghold?
SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
Yeah.
So we we do have the differencebetween I'll start with
strongholds because this is kindof the gist, and then define
what a generational strongholdlooks like.
Um, but a stronghold is morethan just like a bad habit.
It is something that you justcan't seem to get ground over.
Something that seems to the onething that popped in my head,
and I'm just gonna put it outthere, um, sometimes, and this
(01:27):
is a struggle that's prevalentwith men, but also we're seeing
a greater prevalence with womenstruggling with pornography.
Um, so somebody who's like, Iknow it's bad, I know it's
hurting me, I know it's nothealthy for me or in my
relationship, but I can't seemto put it down.
Or addiction.
Um, I know smoking is bad, Iknow drinking is bad, and and I
(01:50):
just can't seem to put it down.
So a stronghold is somethingthat has uh like a uh a hold on
you that is more than just a badhabit.
Um, like I can have a bad habitand just be like, you know what,
bite biting my nails.
I used to bite my nails reallybad when I was younger.
And at one point I was like, youknow what?
I just don't want to do thisanymore.
I don't want to bite my nails.
(02:11):
I want to let them grow.
Um, and it was really hard, butit but I was able to get over
that bad habit.
That's so that's not like astronghold.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (02:19):
Well, honestly, I would say that bad habit was
probably just a symptom ofpotentially a deeper stronghold
of anxiety or fear or whateverelse.
But yeah, that was just asymptom of what you're going
through.
SPEAKER_00 (02:30):
I love that because you're right.
So another stronghold is fear.
If you seem to be fearful ofsomething, and it's not just
like, oh, I'm afraid of heights,or you know, I uh I had an
experience with a stronghold offear that was tormenting me.
So a stronghold is somethingthat you find torment over that
you seem to be oppressed by thathas some level of authority over
(02:54):
you.
Okay.
Now, generational strongholds, alittle little difference is you
can identify a genergenerational stronghold with a
pattern throughout umgenerations.
So when people are talking to meand they say, Yeah, you know, my
my dad struggles withalcoholism, and so did his dad,
and so did his mom, it's like,okay, now we see a generational
(03:16):
stronghold of addiction oralcoholism throughout the
family.
Or uh sometimes judgment isanother big one.
So we can have a spirit ofjudgment, a stronghold of
judgment where we find ourselvesjudgmental towards other people.
But then when you talk tosomeone and they're like, yeah,
well, all the women in ourfamily seem to be very
judgmental.
We all have very strongopinions.
(03:37):
Now we're talking aboutgenerational strongholds.
So a little bit different.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
That's great, Tanya.
Thank you.
Um, in that book, IntentionalBreakthrough, uh I just wonder
the definition on there is astronghold is a position
fortified and defended forsecurity or survival.
In a battle, it's a placecontrolled by a side where they
can set up camp and launchlaunch attacks on nearby areas.
Strongholds can exist in ourthoughts, feelings, actions, and
(04:03):
therefore our lives.
They can be held by the enemy orby Christ.
So it's almost like this areathat's just gotten fortified
over time for somethingspecific.
It could be good or bad.
There could be a stronghold ofjoy in our life, which would be
is wonderful, but there could bea stronghold of fear.
And it's almost like astronghold, like from that
place, that it gets held withinour heart, and from that place
(04:25):
the enemy attacks and tries toexpand and grow.
And it's like we got to getright at the stronghold at the
root of that before we can,before we can move forward.
Yeah.
In 2 Corinthians 10, 4, um, inthe Bible it says, for the
weapons are of our warfare arenot of the flesh, but have
divine power to destroystrongholds.
So that talks about thosespiritual weapons.
(04:47):
We can destroy strongholds inour lives and in our families'
life, in our the family line.
So okay, so how have you seenthem?
Talk more a little bit about howyou've seen them express.
Um, so if you're if someonecomes to you for counseling and
what would they be saying ordoing that would pinpoint you to
be like, oh, we're dealing withlike with a generational
stronghold.
SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Okay, I'm gonna give you a real life example that
happened to me where I was ableto identify I had a stronghold
of fear.
Um, and I if I have to thinkreally hard about it, it I mean,
fear is one of those that'spretty broad that most families
are gonna deal with that.
But for me, like I'll give youthe symptoms that I was able to
say, oh, okay, this is astronghold of fear.
(05:30):
Um, I would have, ever since Iwas a child, I was afraid of the
dark.
Okay, but it was it was beyondjust being afraid of the dark.
It lasted well into adulthood.
Probably like until until I wasdelivered from a spirit of fear.
Um, I was afraid of the dark.
I would not get up in the middleof the night to use the bathroom
because I didn't like it to bedark in the house.
(05:51):
I didn't like it to be dark downthe hallway.
And then like I felt like therewas always something there in
the hallway staring at me.
I would have nightmares all thetime.
Um, but it was it wascontrolling me even control.
So you listen to the language.
It was controlling me.
So I was fearful of ourfinances.
Um, we went through like 20,2009, like that whole economy
(06:12):
thing was was a bad time for alot of people.
But I was very fearful of ourfinances, even though we were
very secure where we are now.
Um, I was fearful of my for mychildren, like what if something
happens to them?
So it was controlling my lifeand behavior.
So again, hear the language,controlling.
It was something negative thatwas controlling me.
And so yeah, it was but that wasa lot of the symptoms, is just
(06:36):
fear of everything.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
So would you say talked about those thoughts that
can come into our head andrecognizing wait, those are
lies.
But would you say like thethoughts were coming in and you
couldn't even recognize them aslies?
It just felt like truth and youcouldn't even stop yourself from
believing them.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
That's kind of what you would say define controlling
as?
I would say that there aredifferent layers of that fear.
So the financial fear, yes, wasmore of a lie that was coming
through.
So that I could identify it as alie.
And so there was a a triggerthat happened, you know, when in
2009, um, the economy crashed,my husband lost his job.
(07:11):
Like it was just a veryfinancially difficult time for
us.
So that is a trigger that wasconnected to a lie.
So then the lie is, well, we gotto be careful because it it
could happen again.
And of course, like it can'thappen again.
But it but it was controllinglike watch our spending, make
sure we have plenty of savings.
Um, so things like that.
So that is more of a of asmaller fear, like byproduct.
(07:36):
The strong that was a lie.
That was connected to a lie.
That this God's not protectingyou or God won't give you the
finances you he's not providinghis daily bread.
That's the lie.
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
The stronghold is more of it was something that's
not even a thought.
It is just a natural state ofbeing, of being fearful,
nightmares, afraid of the dark,um, afraid of you know, like
movies and stuff.
I mean, all uh it was more ofit.
The only way I can describe it,it was so ingrained, because
(08:08):
what I'm seeing right now islike roots deep into my core
that it was a part of me.
That's a stronghold.
So there's a difference betweenthe lie piece and the
stronghold, right?
Yeah.
So, but it's all connected insome way because that root of
fear that was part of my core,being a fearful person now
affects my relationships in alldifferent areas.
(08:30):
So was this a generationalstronghold?
I am thinking, yeah, it has tobe.
Uh because if I look back at myfamily, yeah, absolutely.
Like my siblings, I believe, arestill struggling with that.
It's still kind of a root inthere, uh, which would stem from
my mom.
(08:51):
Yeah, yeah.
I so I can see it in differentparts of my family.
SPEAKER_02 (08:54):
Yeah.
I work with people very often umwith different things, and most
things actually are.
Most things are passed down.
And like we talked about in thelast episode, many times
unknowingly by our parents, theytried their best.
It was passed down.
And, you know, hopefully theypassed it down in a better, you
know, play than what theyreceived, and sometimes they
didn't.
But but yeah, it's almosteverything tends to be passed
(09:16):
down.
And what happens with thesegenerational things, these
generational dysfunctions isyou're born into them.
We all were, we all were.
Um, you're born into differentthings that are not perfectly
healthy, like a culture ofshame, a culture of fear.
And you just as a baby, child,you know, young adult, you take
these things.
It's so easy to take them onbecause number one, it was
(09:36):
normalized in your family.
And number two, you weren'tgiven the tools to actually
navigate it in a healthy way.
So it was kind of like a slamdunk, you know, it was gonna
start to, you're gonna start toadopt those behaviors and and
and those that stronghold,really.
And it gets a place in you.
But it's not irreversible.
It's not.
So talk about your journey toget free.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:56):
You know, the the crazy thing is there were two
moments, two defining momentswhere I really saw.
And so a little bit of this toois like we've got to understand
neuroscience, um, neuralpathways in the brain.
Like our brain is likeplasticity, and it's proven that
over time you can reinforcecertain thoughts and behaviors
(10:16):
by by coming to agreement withit over and over, habits that we
do over and over.
The beauty of that is that itcan change because we can
actually change ourneuropathways by making a
cognitive decision to stop.
So there is there arestrongholds and then there's
habits that reinforce thosestrongholds.
So, my experience, I was, I wasactually at a deliverance
(10:39):
ministry in Phoenix that was alittle uh, what's the word I'm
looking for?
Traumatic is the best way that Icould describe it.
And so I was there because I wassupporting somebody else.
And then someone just came, youknow, to talk to me and they're
like, oh, I'm gonna pray overyou.
And they started praying overme.
And I literally felt, and I sayliterally, like I felt something
(11:01):
that was almost like grabbing myrib cage from the inside and it
was being pulled out.
And and she said it was a spiritof fear.
And I I felt this spirit likebeing ripped out of me.
And I know that sounds thatagain, we're talking about the
supernatural.
Okay, this is the experiencethat I had.
Um, and there was such a reliefthat came from that.
So that so it was traumaticbecause it was a traumatic
(11:23):
experience, and I felt um notwell supported during that
process, like after the thedeliverance, there was a lot of
things.
SPEAKER_02 (11:32):
There wasn't a lot of explanation, there wasn't a
lot of gentleness, there wasn'ta lot of like loving you as the
person for who you are.
It was just sort of like a comein and bah, what just happened,
sort of a thing.
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But but there was there wasfreedom that came with that
because I think I do I I haveexperienced it before
deliverance can be effective,but it can also be traumatic to
the the person.
And we we have the care ofsouls, like the care of the
individual.
We want to make sure not onlythat they're delivered, but that
they remain free from bondage.
So that deliverance did happen.
(12:01):
There was still a layer of thisfear though.
So when that happened, thenightmare stops.
Yeah, go ahead.
No, that's what I was gonna ask.
What happened after that?
So after the nightmare stops,the tour, I'm not afraid of the
dark anymore.
Just like, I don't know, it'slike a light switch.
Nothing.
It's just it's weird to explain.
I'm not afraid of the dark.
I get up in the middle of thenight, I can look down the
hallway, I'm not afraid.
(12:22):
This this sense of fear, I mean,there was this covering of fear
that was over me.
So that did relief.
However, I had another ahamoment experience that was tied
to the spirit of fear that wasfrustrating because I'm like,
this spirit is I'm relieved ofit, but I'm still, I would, I
would have um moments where Iwould was asked to speak at
(12:44):
certain different events, likepublic speaking, uh, on a topic
that I was very confident in.
And also I've had people say,like, you're really good at
doing this, like it's really youreally should do this.
I would say yes to speakingengagements.
And then as I was coming up tothat event, anxiety would
overwhelm me to the point that Iwould almost make myself sick.
I was like, I don't want to dothis.
How do I get at it?
(13:05):
Like it's awful.
And I was sharing it.
This is where wise discernmentcame in, because I was sharing
it with a really good friend ofmine at the time, and she looked
at me and she said, That's aspirit of fear.
And I was like, Oh my gosh.
And then she was like, I rebukethat spirit of fear, you know,
in the name of Jesus, like overme.
And I was so angry because I'mlike, that that enemy, he still
had me.
(13:25):
And I was still coming intoagreement with that spirit of
fear when she spoke that overme, like it just severed.
Uh, and then and then of courseI still don't particularly like
doing speaking and engagements,it's not my favorite, but I'll
do it.
But the fear, the anxiety pieceof it was gone.
So that was my two experienceswith like actually being
delivered from, I believe, thestronghold.
(13:47):
And then the other piece waslike there was there was just
something still lingering thathad to be released from.
And then it was changing theneuropathways.
SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
So why do you okay?
No, keep going.
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
It's like changing the neuropathways.
Yeah.
Yeah, there has to be a piece ofit too where I had to stop
agreeing with the lie, you know,that's like, oh, you're gonna be
anxious, you're gonna benervous, like yeah, you know,
why do you do this?
Like, why do you agree to thesethings when you don't really
like to do it?
You know, it's so I had to breakthat neuro, I had to create a
new neuropathway.
(14:20):
Only say yes to the those whoare truly passionate.
Yes.
So you say the lies still.
Yeah, so because it's it's likeyou said in the last episode, is
like, yes, we know unforgivenessis is the the planting the
seeds, the lies is like wateringthese seeds to plant this root,
this stronghold.
The the stronghold is the root.
I'm such a visual person, sothat's how I'm that's now how
(14:42):
I'm envisioning it.
Yeah, but yeah, so I had tobreak the lies.
SPEAKER_02 (14:46):
Yeah, so how would you explain to people that you
had to get delivered twice?
Why?
Why not just once?
SPEAKER_00 (14:54):
I think I asked you this once, and one of the best
explanations that you've said tome is the garden.
It's it's that there aredifferent parts of your garden.
So the root comes in and it'slike an infection, and so it
spreads this infection todifferent parts of the garden,
right?
And so when we pull up the root,so we take that splinter out of
(15:14):
the ground or out of sometimes.
I I do the analogy is likeyou've got a thorn under your
skin.
Uh, and if you put ointment onthe top, like you haven't really
taken that thorn out.
So you take the thorn out thatis pulling up the stronghold,
and then you have to work on thelies.
Well, what lies were leftbehind?
Or like different parts of thegarden that you have to work on
(15:34):
because it it infected otherparts of the garden.
Maybe not as strong because itwasn't as strong.
As soon as my friend called itout and I realized what it was,
I was like, oh my gosh, theenemy's getting at me again.
I said a couple curse words tohim.
No, that's it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:51):
That's what I say too.
It's just it's thatunderstanding that we we have
parts, we have parts of us.
Like there's a part of me thatfeels confident in this
situation, but oh, but thenthere's a part of me that feels
afraid.
And it's understanding that andand that the fact that the Lord
brings healing to each of thoseparts.
So it's like each little sectionof the garden, you know.
And so we go through one areaand find that cultivated and get
(16:12):
that healed, but now there'sanother part over here, and and
it could pop up, you know,different things could pop up in
different places.
And so it's just following hislead.
There's no way any of us couldfigure this out.
It's literally like, HolySpirit, where are we going
today?
Lead me today, uh, where youwould like to heal.
And he does, and he does a greatjob healing through that.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
So let me ask you a question.
Um, because there are someschools of thoughts.
And again, you know, we're we'retalking about the supernatural
here.
So we don't have everything, weonly know what scripture tells
us to go by, you know, word forword.
Everything outside of that, it'slike these are just schools of
thoughts.
So one school of thought, andthis is where I'm like kind of
thinking what I was dealingwith, like stage fright could be
(16:52):
a part of, anyways.
The school of thought is we havea strong man or the strong man.
Have you heard this languagebefore?
The strong man?
Yeah.
Okay.
So fear would be the strong man.
So think of it like a general,like we're talking about like an
army of the the enemy, and sothe general is fear, and then
he's got soldiers underneath ofhim.
(17:13):
And so I I feel like breakingthat strong man of fear, pulling
that out, is what then exposedthis uh, you know, stage fright,
whatever it is, like whateverthat's gonna be.
SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
Yeah, the little things that were still the
little root tendrils that stillwere scattered throughout, but
like it was much different thanbecause that the the head was
gone, basically.
SPEAKER_00 (17:37):
Yes, exactly.
What do you think about that?
So with when we talk about thatlanguage of like the strong man.
SPEAKER_02 (17:43):
Yeah, I I've never necessarily used strongman in in
those terms, but I can see howthat would fit.
It um that definitely fits.
I see that a lot walking peoplethrough deliverance and healing,
um, freedom is yeah, there'slike that one big initial big
breakthrough, but it doesn'tmean that particular stronghold
isn't gonna show up in otherparts and areas of their life.
(18:04):
But every time we come upagainst it, it's less and less
and less and until one day it'sgone, you know.
But yeah, there is that usuallythat big initial break.
But after that big initialbreak, it's like the person's so
much more free to think clearlyin those areas.
So yeah, like but you were awareof the stage fright, but that
was like a a situation-specificthing.
(18:26):
It was like this happens justwhen this was, it wasn't like an
all-consuming all the time typeof thing.
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
Right.
And there is so we go toscripture, we can look at like
the language of the strongman.
So I think it's uh Mark, it'sMark chapter three, verse 27.
It says, But no one can enter astrong man's house and plunder
his goods unless he first bindsthe strongman, and indeed he may
plunder his house.
So I I wonder too if thatbecause that language is in
scripture, if that's so that'swhy I've heard the word
(18:53):
strongman used before.
And so it's like you've got tobind, so in a way you bind the
strongman or you pull that rootout, right?
And then that's when you can gothrough and get the the the rest
of the army and attack them.
SPEAKER_02 (19:06):
Let's yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
Let's talk a little bit aboutbecause you talked about this
deliverance experience beingtraumatic.
Um, and we love to walk peoplethrough it in a lot much more
gentle way.
So, what does that look like?
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
Like uh guided prayer sessions versus a
deliverance.
Yeah.
Um I I have seen so that andagain, this is I think it is
preference and I think it istools, and I think it is a base
in knowledge.
And so I do want to just statefrom the get-go that I have seen
deliverance be very effective.
(19:39):
I've experienced it myself.
I've I've walked other peoplethrough it, I've seen it be very
effective.
What happens sometimes is I feellike it can go a little faster
than the body is ready for, orlike the emotional state of the
individual is ready for.
Um, while it's effective.
So there is also scripture whereyou know Jesus warns like if you
(20:00):
you cast out these seven demonsand then you sweep your
household nice and clean, but ifyou don't fill it with the
spirit, in essence, what it'ssaying, if you don't fill it
with the Holy Spirit, then itcan come back and it'll bring,
or you've cast one out and it'llbring seven more back, that's
even worse than the before.
So I have seen um that you castout, you know, a strong man, for
(20:21):
example, stronghold or you know,generational spirit.
And then if the person is justnot emotionally or spiritually
mature enough to recognize theschemes of the enemy, it can
come back.
Uh and so with the guided prayersessions, the reason that I I
find it more effective, as it islonger, okay, it does take more
time, but it's at the pace ofthe individual because we let
(20:42):
the Holy Spirit lead.
And so what the spirit willreveal what the we don't know,
you and I don't know.
You know, as humans, we don'tknow what the individual's ready
for.
And I do, I'll be honest, I getimpatient sometimes.
I'm like, just get that thingout.
But if they're not ready, thespirit's gonna lead you slower.
And it's and yeah, there's gonnabe layers.
It's like an archaeology dig.
SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
We gotta dig nice and slow, gentle, gentle.
Yeah, but it leaves the personin a much better place and it
leaves them connected to theLord.
I think that's why I'mpassionate about that too, is
because we're not just steppingin, doing some work and leaving,
and the person's like, what justhappened?
Where's the Lord?
How do I find him?
How do I, what's even going on?
It's like we're coming and justand it's realizing that that
(21:26):
stronghold's there because it'sa root, it's a root that's
connected.
So we cut all those ties of thatroot.
It naturally leaves.
Like it just the healinghappens.
And that person, though, hasdeveloped a history and a
journey with the Lord in thatprocess.
Usually we meet with people inabout an hour and a half, and
there's a the walk with the Lordis deepened during that time
because they're connected to Himthe whole time.
(21:47):
And it's just so gentle and it'sfilled with His love and His
truth.
And they leave not only free,but they leave connected to the
Lord and having built theirfoundation in the history with
the Lord.
And that's the goal is that theyleave connected to.
Ham because I have too.
I've seen um I've seen somereally really sad endings when
people do get delivered andaren't able to maintain it.
(22:10):
And so that's not every time,but but I love being able to
walk people through it and it'slike a of course they're gonna
be able to maintain it becauseit was the healing happened with
the deliverance.
It wasn't just deliverance, itwas deliverance and healing.
When healing takes place,deliverance naturally occurs, it
just naturally happens.
Okay, so I talked back inepisode three, I think, about my
(22:30):
experience with spiritualwarfare and realizing like this
dark thing left me, right?
And then last week's episode, Italked about the forgiveness the
Lord had brought me through thisbank blank sheet of paper, and I
just forgave like dozens anddozens of people.
And then a few months later, Ihad that phone call with someone
where um we walked through allthese lies and broke them and
replaced them with the truth.
And it was only like veryshortly after that that I had
(22:53):
that instance where there's thisdark thing.
I told it to leave and it left.
But that's why it was so easybecause all the root tendrils
had been cut, all theforgiveness, the Lord had walked
me through that, all thebreaking of the lies, replacing
with the truth.
And then it came down to thatmoment and God said, Tell that
thing to go, and I told it to goand it left.
And it was easy because I'd walkHe had walked me through all of
(23:15):
the healing that needed tohappen.
Does that make sense?
And I didn't put that in thewater until years later.
Yeah.
So I was healed though, and Istayed healed, and it wasn't
hard to stay healed because Iwas healed.
I was free.
I was free and I stayed free,but it wasn't hard to stay free
because I was healed.
unknown (23:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:33):
So the healing takes place when you do it this way.
But it does take a little bitlonger.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:38):
And and that's not to discredit, again, it's not to
discredit other methods or thatother methods aren't effective
because I again I haveexperienced it can be effective.
It's the um, we talked aboutanother episode.
There's a time and a place toboth, maybe.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:55):
There could be a time and a place to both.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Yeah.
We talked about the ongoingprocess.
So so this is two where I findit can be discouraging for
people because again, the weedscome back in your garden.
If you're not constantly, if ifanybody has, and I know we live
in Arizona, so we don't gardenoutside, but in Virginia, when I
did garden outside, there wasthere would weeds come up?
If you don't tend to the garden,the weeds are gonna come back.
(24:19):
So I think what the strugglessometimes to, again, about the
carousels for the individual, isthat somebody walks through
deliverance and they rebuke thespirit of fear, they rebuke this
spirit, all these oppressivespirits that have been
controlling and and dominatingtheir lives and oppressing them.
And then what happens when sixmonths later, a year later, two
years later, now they're feelingthis oppression come back and
(24:41):
they're like, oh gosh, well,what happened?
It didn't work, or or what did Ido wrong, or I backslid, or it's
like, no, it's like spiritualmaturity is an ongoing process
of forgiveness, recognizingthis.
Yeah, because listen, the devilis crafty, he's been doing this
way longer than any of us haveever been in alive.
And so if he can't get youthrough one stronghold, trust
(25:02):
me, he's gonna try another.
He's gonna be like, pull mybeer.
SPEAKER_02 (25:07):
Yes.
But here's what I learned hegets in through the cracks, say
the cracks in the armor.
So we can ask the Lord, God,where is this crack in my armor?
Where is this dent in theshield?
Can we can you lead me tohealing in this area?
And he does.
And I'm telling you, thosearrows that used to shoot
through the shield and hit theopening in the shield and like
get you.
When we take that time and askthe Lord, let's heal this part
(25:28):
of the shield, they come andthey just bounce right off and
you don't even feel it.
You're like, oh, yeah.
I used to be afraid in thissituation.
I don't even feel fear anymore.
It's like I used to be afraid,and then I was aware of fear,
and then I was like, okay, feargo, but it was still kind of
there.
It was a struggle.
And then when the healing was inthat area was completed, I don't
even feel it.
I just feel his joy and I feelhis expectancy.
(25:49):
I feel faith instead, likenaturally feel faith.
Faith is evidence.
Faith isn't something we rev upon our own.
Faith is evidence.
It comes from the encounter withthe Lord, the healing.
So yeah, that just happened.
I just uh worked with somebodyand it ended up going pretty
long.
Um, it wasn't typically thesession is about an hour and a
half, but there's just a lot weneed to work through.
And there was, there wasdeliverance, there was freedom,
(26:13):
and there was real change.
And they even told me, they'relike, I am forever changed.
I am forever changed.
But then they said, you knowwhat?
But can we meet again?
Because there's more.
There's yeah, I'm still noticingthere's more.
I noticed the freedom in thisarea, but then this area,
there's still something more.
And I was like, okay, yeah,let's go after this part.
Like there's there's theseparts, and we will constantly be
(26:33):
working through these parts.
When we're going through acrisis, like a lot of parts all
at once, but we can get to thatplace where, okay, all right,
this part of my garden of myheart is cultivated.
Okay, God, let's go after thisone now.
And it gets to a more of apeaceful place.
But when you're just gettingstarted, I'd give this analogy
all the time.
It feels like a jungle.
Like when I just was gettingstarted with this, it felt like
a jungle, and I'm chopping treesand I'm pulling up roots and I'm
(26:53):
pulling down vines and doing allthis work.
And I step back and I'm like,it's still a jungle.
Like I can hardly even tell Idid any work.
We just keep going with the HolySpirit, and He just does all
this healing, all of this workinside of you.
And at this point today, I cansay, like, I live in this
cultivated garden, and it's justpeaceful, and there's still
stuff to deal with, but I havethe tools.
I know how to deal with it andhow to, you know, clear this
(27:15):
area, but I live in thispeaceful place.
Um, we have to close that, but Ihave a quick question for you.
I know that there's some peoplethat are gonna be like, okay, I
am dealing with a generationalstronghold.
There's gonna be a lot of peoplewho are like, yeah, I feel I
mean, I'm fine.
Like, yeah, I struggle withfear.
I struggle, you know, sometimesI'm afraid.
Sometimes me and my spouseargue.
I don't really know why stuffcomes up, but I that can't be
(27:37):
like a stronghold, is it?
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
What would you say?
Well, I want to, I I want tomake sure we're very clear that
stronghold is not a measurementof your faith or your
relationship with Christ.
Okay, so some people are arewould hear stronghold and they
would get offended, whichoffends.
unknown (27:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (27:54):
If you're offended by something, like, you know,
look, find out why you'reoffended.
So some people are like, oh no,I don't, I'm a Christian.
I'm a baptized believer.
I don't have any strongholds.
On this side of eternity, theenemy is going to constantly try
to attack us and go after us,get through us through our
family, our our children, ourspouses, our friends, our
relationships.
(28:15):
On this side of eternity, everysingle Christian believer will
be tormented to some degree oranother.
I I think it's just a reality ofit because the enemy has some
level of influence from astronghold.
Is that what you're saying?
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And some more degrees thanothers.
Um, you know, like sometimes I Ijust I hear Christians be like,
(28:37):
well, no, Christians can't beoppressed.
Now there is a difference.
I don't know if we talked aboutthis before.
There is a difference betweenpossession and oppression.
Okay.
Oppression is just influence,like you said.
I love that word.
Um, we're not possessed becauseour spirit belongs to Christ.
What do you think?
SPEAKER_02 (28:53):
But you did use the word control.
Like you were that spirit offear was controlling you.
Yeah.
Is that different thanpossession?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
Because uh well, I think that our our thoughts of
like what The Exorcist or allthose other, which I don't watch
those movies anymore because Ican't because they terrify me,
which is a reason why I don'twatch them.
But those types of movies willkind of um, you know, like your
body, your head is spinningaround and you're vomiting, and
you're like your body is likeclimbing the walls and stuff.
(29:22):
That is a different level oflike that's possession where a
spirit can actually control yourbody.
Let's go back to scripture.
So the man, um, when Jesuscrossed the sea, and then he was
on the other side, and there wasthat man that was cutting
himself with rocks and he hadthe lesion in him.
Yeah, he was possessed bylegions of demonic entities, and
(29:44):
so Jesus actually cast thosedemons into a horde of pigs that
then killed themselves, right?
So that is like possession whencontrolling oppression is more
of like something that iscontrolling your behavior, and I
say controlling not in a senseof like greatly influencing,
yeah, greatly influencing.
It's not like a puppet masterwhere like the you know, the
(30:05):
stronghold is like, oh, I'mgonna make you do this.
But this is the way to describeit is like the oppression is so
heavy that the enemy can whispersomething to you in your ear
because that's what happens, andthen you react to it and you act
on it.
So there's levels of influence,but yeah, I go ahead.
Well, I was thinking people,yeah, back to like my my fear,
(30:27):
the one that I had.
Um, I here is like a perfectexample.
I would wake up in the middle ofthe night and like, oh, I have
to go use the bathroom.
And so that's my first thought.
And then immediately be like,there's something under the bed,
there's something in the closet,something's gonna grab you
outside of the bathroom,something is down the hallway.
That's the oppression that theenemy is planting thoughts in my
mind that then controls mybehavior.
(30:49):
Now I'm like, well, I'm gonnahold it till the morning.
What time is it?
Okay, it's only four o'clock.
I can wait two more hours.
That's the I have come intoagreement with those lies.
So the control, that's mybehavior.
SPEAKER_02 (31:00):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah.
I think just the word controlmakes people think of
possession, but that's not whatyou're trying to say.
It's like greatly influencing tothe point where it's affecting
your behavior and affecting thedecisions that you make.
And there is levels of that.
There's and especially whenpeople start finding freedom,
it's really hard to break free,but then they start getting to
that place where they're awareof it, but maybe still can't
(31:23):
like change their behavior, butthen they start to maybe make
decisions that are against it,and then they start to break
free of it.
Yeah.
And so people are can beanywhere in that spectrum.
Um, but just if something isinfluencing, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:35):
Well, one one more just example of what happened,
like after this deliverance ofthe spirit of fear.
It wasn't like immediately Iwoke up and then like everything
was fine.
I also did have to constantlyremind myself of God's truth.
So there were times now, it wasgreatly different.
It was before where it felt likeit was on my body and all over
me, the spirit of fear.
(31:56):
Now it's like it was on theoutside trying to get in.
Like you said, it would throwlittle darts like and hit and
hit the armor.
Yeah.
And so there were a few timesthat I would wake up and I would
feel this presence.
And I was like, okay, Lord, Iknow you're greater.
I know you're stronger.
If there is something herethat's trying to make me afraid,
like, Lord, I I know that youare here, you protect me, you
(32:18):
love me, that your power isgreater than anything that's
trying to oppress me right now.
And I would say that out loud.
And then I would boldly say, youknow what?
I'm not going to come intoagreement with that spirit of
fear.
And I would get up out of thatand I would force myself to use
the bathroom just to not becontrolled by that fear.
So I know we're running, we'rerunning over our time, but you
got me going.
You gotta stop, but we'll justfinish.
SPEAKER_02 (32:39):
We're gonna have to do this next time.
Okay.
Ephesians 6 13.
Having done all but stand, standfirm.
So you did the all, broke thefear, broke the strongman, broke
the lies, found the truth, andthen there was that moment where
you had to stand firm and thenfinally gave up and it was gone.
That is that's a really commonpattern.
Okay, we gotta close up, butwe're gonna have to get into
this again because I think youhave a lot more to say.
(33:00):
So next time we'll just keepgoing.
All right, thanks for tuning in.
If you want more information,anchored biblical
counseling.org, intentionalbreakthrough.com.
If you have any questions, putit in the comments.
We love answering questions.
So, okay, until next time.
See you next time.
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