March 30, 2022 • 18 mins
John Lee Dumas showed early signs of his dedication and commitment to process. He pivoted to swimming after injuries forced him to leave the soccer pitch and basketball court his senior year in high school. JLD quickly transformed one weakness in technique each day; in the final competition of the season, John touched the wall first, winning the Maine State Championship in the 50-yard freestyle.
After graduation from Providence College, John served our country as an Army platoon leader in Iraq. He continued searching for his purpose or "zone of fire" (to coin a phrase from John) - a place where passion, expertise, and experience intersect - and ditched law school, left the financial sector and real estate behind. He began devouring podcasts, quickly realizing the absence of a daily show dedicated to interviewing entrepreneurs and business leaders. John reached out to the host of his favorite podcast The Eventual Millionaire and the host Jaime Masters became his podcast guide and mentor.
Fast forward to today, JLD has interviewed over 3,600 of the world’s most successful entrepreneurs. John, his partner Kate Erickson, and their small virtual team are the highest-grossing daily affiliate and sponsorship show online. John and Kate are co-creators of Podcaster’s Paradise, an online course, community, and resource assisting fledgling beginners to seasoned broadcasting professionals to realize their podcasting dreams. In his new book The Common Path to Uncommon Success John distills essential qualities, mutual habits, into 17 focused steps to success.
We are honored, thrilled, and excited to welcome this podcast inspiration, John Lee Dumas, to this episode of Intrinsic Drive ®.
Intrinsic Drive ® is produced by Ellen Strickler and Phil Wharton. Special thanks to Andrew Hollingworth, our sound engineer and technical editor. For more information on this and other episodes visit us at www.whartonhealth.com/intrinsicdrive Follow us on socials (links below) including Instagram @intrinsicdrivelive
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Phil Wharton (00:00):
A lifetime of training, practice, study, hard
work. Through discipline, someachieve excellence, mastery,
fulfillment, self actualization.
What can we learn from theirbeginnings, discoveries,
motivations and falls? How dothey dust themselves off and
resume their journey. Duringthese interviews, stories and
conversations we reveal theirintrinsic drives. John Lee Dumas
(00:22):
showed early signs of hisdedication and commitment to
process. Pivoting to swimmingafter injuries forced him to
leave the soccer pitch inbasketball courts his senior
year in high school. He quicklytransformed one weakness and
technique each day. In in thefinal competition of the season,
(00:43):
he touched the wall first,winning the Maine State
Championship in the 50 yardfreestyle. After graduation from
Providence College, John servedour country as an Army platoon
leader in Iraq, searching forhis purpose or zone of fire to
coin a phrase from John, a placewhere passion, expertise and
(01:03):
experience intersect. He ditchedlaw school left the financial
sector and real estate behind.
He began devouring podcasts.
Quickly realizing the lack of adaily show interviewing
entrepreneurs and businessleaders. He reached out to the
host of his favorite podcast,the Eventual Millionaire. The
(01:25):
host, Jamie masters becameJohn's podcast guide and mentor.
Fast forward to today, JL D hasinterviewed over 3600 of the
world's most successfulentrepreneurs. John and his
partner Kate Erickson, and theirsmall virtual team are the
highest grossing daily affiliateand sponsorship show online.
(01:49):
John and Kate are co- creatorsof the Podcasters Paradise an
online course community andresource assisting fledgling
beginners to seasonedbroadcasting professionals in
realizing their podcastingdreams. In his new book, The
Common Path to Uncommon Success.
(02:11):
John distills essentialqualities, mutual habits in 17,
focused steps to success. We arehonored, thrilled and excited to
welcome my podcast inspiration,John Lee Dumas, to this episode
of intrinsic drive. Let's justgo to your beginnings, John,
(02:35):
was there an inciting moment foryou? Where did you begin this
journey of yours?
John Lee Dumas (02:41):
So my journey actually did begin back in early
2012. So coming up on 10 yearsnow, where I was just kind of
searching for something that lita spark in me something I was
excited about. I mean, you know,post army and law school and
corporate finance and commercialreal estate, I was kind of, at
this moment where I'm 32 yearsold, I don't feel like life has
(03:04):
to be work that does not inspireyou, like I feel like work can
be something that also youenjoy, and that you're impacting
others, and you feel great aboutwhen you wake up in the morning.
And nothing, not that there'sanything wrong with those other
careers that I mentioned. It'sjust for me as an individual.
They weren't letting that spark.
And so I kind of just kept myeyes open and my heart opened my
(03:25):
ears open, and was willing tokind of let the universe speak
to me at that point. And I foundmyself just walking along the
bay in Maine listening to apodcast, and I said, wow, like,
I just love consuming this typeof content. What if I produced
this type of content? What if Iemeshed myself even deeper in
(03:47):
this world that I'm reallyenjoying as a consumer? And that
kind of just lit a spark ofsaying what would that look
like? And you know, here we are10 years later, over 3500
episodes of Entrepreneurs onFire later, over 100 million
downloads, you know, millions ofmonthly listens. And now I'm not
in Maine, I'm in Puerto Rico forsix years now living the dream.
Phil Wharton (04:14):
That's amazing.
Because, you know, when I firstconnected with you, virtually it
was through your book, PodcastLaunch. I noticed that in that
book, it was it was reallyinteresting to me that you first
became passionate because youwere listening to them and they
were speaking to you; podcasts.
Because at first you know,listening to regular radio,
there's tons of commercials andthere's you know, and there's
(04:36):
all this selling and use ofokay, this is free content, but
there's nothing out here on adaily basis. That speaks to me
in my entrepreneurial journey.
Here you are in the real estatespace, and it's 2009. The market
crashed in 2008. So you're inthis horrific period, then right
you move back to Maine, as yousaid and okay, you're back in
(04:57):
the real estate Estate marketbut you wanted to find something
different something that youcould bring to the world is that
when you went to Blog World in2012, in June, I think that was,
is that the moment you reallygot turned on and you met some
other kindred spirits in thisworld of entrepreneurship and
podcasting?
John Lee Dumas (05:19):
So after I kind of had that aha moment of, Hey,
maybe I want to get into thepodcasting game, but I don't
know really what that looks likeI said, Well, who's somebody
that right now is where I wouldwant to be? who is somebody who
is running a successful businesspodcast? I just went to my feed
(05:40):
on my iPod. And I looked at thepodcast I was listening to, and
one of the ones that I reallyenjoyed by somebody who I really
respected, was a show calledEventual Millionaire with Jamie
Masters. And I said, Man, Jamieis actually where I want to be
in a year from now. She's abouta year, year and a half into her
journey, she seems to have agreat listenership, she seems to
(06:02):
be really connected in thespace. What would it look like
if she mentored me. So I reachedout to her, we actually both
lived in Maine randomly. So wegot together for a cup of
coffee. I can still rememberseeing her walk into Starbucks
that day. We had a greatconversation, okay. And then she
said, This is what it's gonnalook like for me to work with
you. And I said, I'm in. And oneof her first strong
(06:25):
recommendations, okay, wasyou've got to go to Blog World
2012 in New York City. And sothat's when we made it happen. I
went down there. And it was agame changer.
Phil Wharton (06:37):
And that was a three month as you call zone of
fire, where you find thatcommonality of passion and hard
work and expertise, and allthese things that you teach us
on the things like this, thepodcast journal that I'm holding
up for the listeners right nowthat I've used to launch our
podcast. And I think it wasamazing, because even with all
that, even with your motivation,as an athlete, you know,
(07:00):
teaching yourself swimming as a,as a guard in basketball, right?
As a three sport athlete,teaching yourself swimming,
there, you are on the line inhigh school with baggy shorts.
And you know, you're, you're Imean, as I read it in the new
book, which I highly recommend,which we're going to tag at the
end, the Common Path to UncommonSuccess, a Harper Collins book,
which just came out this lastyear. And it's unbelievable how
(07:23):
you trained yourself through thereps, as we, as you say, in
business, but the reps we knowfrom athletics is coming to that
context. But even then, we stillhave that reptilian mind that,
part of us that saying, part ofour brain that saying I can't or
stops us from from fullachievement, and you kept
(07:44):
pushing back your launch, isn'tthat right? And she had to your
mentor had to say, hey, look,John, I'm gonna fire you if you
don't push this button to launchthis podcast, which happened
September 22 or so of that fall?
John Lee Dumas (07:57):
Right? Yeah, I think it's a great analogy you
bring up with swimming, becausewhen I was a senior, you know,
supposed to be my big year, asyou know, the starting point
guard for our varsity basketballteam and Class A sports which is
the highest level of Maine. InMaine, okay. You know, I had
been the starting point guardfor the two years prior. So my
sophomore and junior years wasto be a big year, injury wiped
(08:20):
me out of that. Fortunately, itwasn't a bad enough injury where
I couldn't swim. Right. So whenI got into the pool, I quickly
realized that you know, what,like, everybody has essentially
a similar body, but it's thepeople that work harder, train
harder, put in the reps, havebetter stamina, have better
technique, have better form,just adapt better to the water
(08:43):
by being more those the peoplethat are winning. That's right,
so I just went all in onswimming. And fortunately, my
dad was actually a collegiateswimmer at Georgetown. So I did
have decent genes from that.
Right. And he was willing towork with me
Phil Wharton (08:54):
tech and technique, which is so important
in the wall.
John Lee Dumas (08:58):
Yeah, my start my flip turn. Yeah, I'm able
finally to man up and wearSpeedos. And all those things
added up to me ended up I endedup winning first place in the
southwestern which isessentially the entire South
southern state of Maine. For the50 yard freestyle, which is a
very competitive stroke. i Thefastest time. And that was you
(09:20):
know, starting off with anincredibly slow time, like I
ended up cutting my time like40% over the season, which is
almost insane. But I had I had areally bad starting place. So I
mean, you know, getting gettingthere wasn't easier well, but I
was able to apply that later inmy life to podcasting. I'm like,
just like swimming where I wasterrible when I started, but I
(09:41):
quickly got better. Why did Iget better because I put in the
reps I was doing right? Wepractice afternoon practice or
after? Yeah, twice a day threetimes a day putting in the reps.
And it just clicked for me thatit would be the same with
podcasting. Of course I wasgoing to be not good at speaking
to a microphone beinginterviewed interviewing other
people public speaking all thesethings, right, like put in the
wraps. And so that was a hugelabel for me that said, Hey, I'm
(10:06):
going to do this. I'm doing itdaily.
Phil Wharton (10:09):
That's amazing.
And you, so we're kind of seeingyour ascent you're rising in
your craft, the discovery, thedrives, you're motivated. What
kind of take us to your lowestmoment, John, what's what's what
was the fall for you in thisprocess? And how do you And
how'd you
John Lee Dumas (10:25):
get after podcasting launch? Or Yeah,
Phil Wharton (10:28):
after after the launch? Is there a moment that
for you that okay, it was sortof a, you flatline, you weren't
improving? And how did you pivotafter that?
John Lee Dumas (10:39):
I'd say my, my lowest points was trying to
figure out how to actuallymonetize what I was doing. I
mean, I went all in like I was,you know, doing a daily show, I
had no other job, no otherincome, no other revenue. I went
all in with a daily podcast. Andeven my coach Jamie was like, so
how are you going to make money?
And, you know, she was makingmoney by doing a bunch of
(11:00):
different things. And I waslike, Well, I just want to make
money just from this craft ofpodcasting. And we were
brainstorming ideas. And she waslike, Well, I mean, that might
work. That might not work, thatprobably won't work, and yada,
yada. So
Phil Wharton (11:14):
it hadn't been done yet, either. So then you're
almost in a freefall in thatyou're on your own. You have
great mentors, but it's asuspension of disbelief, you're
in there.
John Lee Dumas (11:23):
So then the lowest moment would be when I
launched my first products,which I thought was something
that was going to be my launchpad, it's actually generating
real revenue in my business. Andit just flopped. Like, it just
flopped. Nobody wanted it. Likelooking back hindsight now that
I speak about that in the bookthat you reference the path to
uncommon success. It's obviousto me why that book, that excuse
(11:46):
me, that product flopped. Butthe reality was, it taught me a
lot. And my very next product,very shortly after that was the
most successful thing I'veactually launched today, which
some of the you mentionedpodcasters paradise, which,
which we're still running tothis day, yes, nine years later.
So that's, you know, a biglearning point for me. And I
(12:08):
think for a lot of people thatare listening is, you know, that
biggest, like failure, that'slowest point that you have in
your business, in your life withyour products with your
services, could really be thelaunchpad that you use for the
next big thing.
Phil Wharton (12:24):
I think that was so wonderful about the book to
Jonasson. Okay, creators like tobe in the intuitive and they
like to go into the cave andcreate, create, create, but you
said, hey, look, I didn't haveproof of concept in this first
thing, as you just described,but then as podcasters paradise,
we're interfacing, we're gettingthis amazing real time data from
(12:44):
people, hey, what do you needsolving their big problems and
being of service? How can I helpyou? I mean, one of the greatest
things I get in the letters frompeople that have read our books
now, you know, first book 1996.
And now it's a blacklisted bestseller and all these things.
Again, thank you for helping meto help myself, in giving the
tools. That's what I love aboutyou. And Kate is it's full
(13:06):
disclosure, if you look on thewebsite, today, if you go to
entrepreneurs on fire, you know,in December income was $217,000.
I mean, it this is a personthat's willing to go take you
behind the backstage and giveyou that backstage pass of how
exactly they're doing it. Andit's just, you know, as
(13:27):
Meriwether Lewis said, Everyjourney is only contingent on
the provisions. And so you'regiving the tools and the
provisions here on the anvilGLD. What is a defining moment,
what what moment you thinkdefined you to make help you
become the leader in thispodcast space?
John Lee Dumas (13:48):
You know, I'm gonna stay with the theme that
you brought up there, which istransparency. I mean, I love the
fact that we are so transparentwith our business. And I think
that really does define a leaderis somebody that's willing to
say, you know, what, like, I'vegot nothing to hide, I'm gonna
open the kimono up, I'm going toshow you everything. It's not
all wins. It's not all rainbowsand unicorns, right? failures or
(14:10):
struggles or obstacles orchallenges. But there's also
wins successes and amazingmoments, we want to show you
everything so you can look atthe successes we're having and
emulate those successes, butalso look at the failures that
we're having, and avoid thosefailures. So now for over 100
months in a row. We've beenpublishing a monthly income
report, we have never been below$100,000 a month, remarkable 100
(14:36):
months which is just, you know,like such a, like a tribute to
the type of business that we'vebuilt and as you mentioned, some
months were two three, you know,I think our highest month was
close to $500,000. So we've beenlike really steady living a
lifestyle that we want, youknow, living location
independence. very lean, smallteam, we have a total of three
(14:59):
other There are virtualassistants on our team besides
myself and Kate's fantastic. Twoof them are in the Philippines,
one of them's in Pakistan. So Imean, it's just truly virtual
truly connected, truly lean. Andwe're happy to inspire other
people to do the same.
Phil Wharton (15:14):
And creating systems. I think that's one of
the strong points that Katebrings to the team. If you go to
Kate's take his her blog, and ablog and Audio Blog, it's
amazing, showing you how you cando this, wherever you are. And
in today's economy, a lot of theyoung people coming up really
have the Wanderlust want to beanywhere. And that's something
(15:35):
they can leverage. And you guyshave been off for even 90 days
on break and being able toproduce daily, amazing content
with some of the greatentrepreneurs of our new century
in the new economy, in yourjourney. What's, what's next for
you?
John Lee Dumas (15:53):
Honestly, I don't know. And I'm happy with
that, because I believe thereare so many amazing
opportunities just around thecorner, that I just want to be
ready for the one that makessense to me. I mean, I'm
getting, you know, so manyopportunities every single day
that, you know, it's just has tobe a note of basically
everything because I want to beready and willing and have the
(16:15):
time, energy and bandwidth,right? Say yes, when that next
thing is the right thing. Soright now, we know what's
working. Right moving forward.
You know, we have a lean teamwith systems, you know, our
businesses thriving, you know,working less than I've ever
worked before, but you know, I'menjoying life, you know, as much
or more. So right now, it's justlike, what's next? We'll say,
Phil Wharton (16:38):
fantastic. And in the slipstream on the show, we
kind of look back and give gemsof wisdom and parting advice.
What would you like to leavewith us today, as we close on
intrinsic like to leave
John Lee Dumas (16:49):
with a quote from Albert Einstein try not to
become a person of success, butrather a person of value. And
when that quote really sunk inwith me, I realized that I
needed to just focus onproviding value to this world.
And that success would findwould follow and find me. And
that's been true.
Phil Wharton (17:09):
John, you know, just such a pleasure to be with
you. I'm going to leave you withI know your schedule is so busy,
but I'm so glad you're takingtime for your own health. We
need more of you in the world.
We need you at full capacity.
And so that's a blessing. Thanksfor coming to intrinsic drive.
Such a wonderful time to be withyou. Thanks, brother. Appreciate
it. Phil. Thanks for being withus. We appreciate you opting in
(17:34):
subscribing, and reviewing usfor thumbing us up and following
us on socials. liking us. Welike you. Drop us a note. Tell
us what stories move you forbooks, videos, resources and
more information. Visit us at WH AR t o n health.com forward
(17:59):
slash shop Wharton health and besure to join us for the next
episode of intrinsic drive.
A lifetime of training, practice, study, hard
work. Through discipline, someachieve excellence, mastery,
fulfillment, self actualization.
What can we learn from theirbeginnings, discoveries,
motivations and falls? How dothey dust themselves off and
resume their journey. Duringthese interviews, stories and
conversations we reveal theirintrinsic drives. John Lee Dumas
(00:22):
showed early signs of hisdedication and commitment to
process. Pivoting to swimmingafter injuries forced him to
leave the soccer pitch inbasketball courts his senior
year in high school. He quicklytransformed one weakness and
technique each day. In in thefinal competition of the season,
(00:43):
he touched the wall first,winning the Maine State
Championship in the 50 yardfreestyle. After graduation from
Providence College, John servedour country as an Army platoon
leader in Iraq, searching forhis purpose or zone of fire to
coin a phrase from John, a placewhere passion, expertise and
(01:03):
experience intersect. He ditchedlaw school left the financial
sector and real estate behind.
He began devouring podcasts.
Quickly realizing the lack of adaily show interviewing
entrepreneurs and businessleaders. He reached out to the
host of his favorite podcast,the Eventual Millionaire. The
(01:25):
host, Jamie masters becameJohn's podcast guide and mentor.
Fast forward to today, JL D hasinterviewed over 3600 of the
world's most successfulentrepreneurs. John and his
partner Kate Erickson, and theirsmall virtual team are the
highest grossing daily affiliateand sponsorship show online.
(01:49):
John and Kate are co- creatorsof the Podcasters Paradise an
online course community andresource assisting fledgling
beginners to seasonedbroadcasting professionals in
realizing their podcastingdreams. In his new book, The
Common Path to Uncommon Success.
(02:11):
John distills essentialqualities, mutual habits in 17,
focused steps to success. We arehonored, thrilled and excited to
welcome my podcast inspiration,John Lee Dumas, to this episode
of intrinsic drive. Let's justgo to your beginnings, John,
(02:35):
was there an inciting moment foryou? Where did you begin this
journey of yours?
John Lee Dumas (02:41):
So my journey actually did begin back in early
2012. So coming up on 10 yearsnow, where I was just kind of
searching for something that lita spark in me something I was
excited about. I mean, you know,post army and law school and
corporate finance and commercialreal estate, I was kind of, at
this moment where I'm 32 yearsold, I don't feel like life has
(03:04):
to be work that does not inspireyou, like I feel like work can
be something that also youenjoy, and that you're impacting
others, and you feel great aboutwhen you wake up in the morning.
And nothing, not that there'sanything wrong with those other
careers that I mentioned. It'sjust for me as an individual.
They weren't letting that spark.
And so I kind of just kept myeyes open and my heart opened my
(03:25):
ears open, and was willing tokind of let the universe speak
to me at that point. And I foundmyself just walking along the
bay in Maine listening to apodcast, and I said, wow, like,
I just love consuming this typeof content. What if I produced
this type of content? What if Iemeshed myself even deeper in
(03:47):
this world that I'm reallyenjoying as a consumer? And that
kind of just lit a spark ofsaying what would that look
like? And you know, here we are10 years later, over 3500
episodes of Entrepreneurs onFire later, over 100 million
downloads, you know, millions ofmonthly listens. And now I'm not
in Maine, I'm in Puerto Rico forsix years now living the dream.
Phil Wharton (04:14):
That's amazing.
Because, you know, when I firstconnected with you, virtually it
was through your book, PodcastLaunch. I noticed that in that
book, it was it was reallyinteresting to me that you first
became passionate because youwere listening to them and they
were speaking to you; podcasts.
Because at first you know,listening to regular radio,
there's tons of commercials andthere's you know, and there's
(04:36):
all this selling and use ofokay, this is free content, but
there's nothing out here on adaily basis. That speaks to me
in my entrepreneurial journey.
Here you are in the real estatespace, and it's 2009. The market
crashed in 2008. So you're inthis horrific period, then right
you move back to Maine, as yousaid and okay, you're back in
(04:57):
the real estate Estate marketbut you wanted to find something
different something that youcould bring to the world is that
when you went to Blog World in2012, in June, I think that was,
is that the moment you reallygot turned on and you met some
other kindred spirits in thisworld of entrepreneurship and
podcasting?
John Lee Dumas (05:19):
So after I kind of had that aha moment of, Hey,
maybe I want to get into thepodcasting game, but I don't
know really what that looks likeI said, Well, who's somebody
that right now is where I wouldwant to be? who is somebody who
is running a successful businesspodcast? I just went to my feed
(05:40):
on my iPod. And I looked at thepodcast I was listening to, and
one of the ones that I reallyenjoyed by somebody who I really
respected, was a show calledEventual Millionaire with Jamie
Masters. And I said, Man, Jamieis actually where I want to be
in a year from now. She's abouta year, year and a half into her
journey, she seems to have agreat listenership, she seems to
(06:02):
be really connected in thespace. What would it look like
if she mentored me. So I reachedout to her, we actually both
lived in Maine randomly. So wegot together for a cup of
coffee. I can still rememberseeing her walk into Starbucks
that day. We had a greatconversation, okay. And then she
said, This is what it's gonnalook like for me to work with
you. And I said, I'm in. And oneof her first strong
(06:25):
recommendations, okay, wasyou've got to go to Blog World
2012 in New York City. And sothat's when we made it happen. I
went down there. And it was agame changer.
Phil Wharton (06:37):
And that was a three month as you call zone of
fire, where you find thatcommonality of passion and hard
work and expertise, and allthese things that you teach us
on the things like this, thepodcast journal that I'm holding
up for the listeners right nowthat I've used to launch our
podcast. And I think it wasamazing, because even with all
that, even with your motivation,as an athlete, you know,
(07:00):
teaching yourself swimming as a,as a guard in basketball, right?
As a three sport athlete,teaching yourself swimming,
there, you are on the line inhigh school with baggy shorts.
And you know, you're, you're Imean, as I read it in the new
book, which I highly recommend,which we're going to tag at the
end, the Common Path to UncommonSuccess, a Harper Collins book,
which just came out this lastyear. And it's unbelievable how
(07:23):
you trained yourself through thereps, as we, as you say, in
business, but the reps we knowfrom athletics is coming to that
context. But even then, we stillhave that reptilian mind that,
part of us that saying, part ofour brain that saying I can't or
stops us from from fullachievement, and you kept
(07:44):
pushing back your launch, isn'tthat right? And she had to your
mentor had to say, hey, look,John, I'm gonna fire you if you
don't push this button to launchthis podcast, which happened
September 22 or so of that fall?
John Lee Dumas (07:57):
Right? Yeah, I think it's a great analogy you
bring up with swimming, becausewhen I was a senior, you know,
supposed to be my big year, asyou know, the starting point
guard for our varsity basketballteam and Class A sports which is
the highest level of Maine. InMaine, okay. You know, I had
been the starting point guardfor the two years prior. So my
sophomore and junior years wasto be a big year, injury wiped
(08:20):
me out of that. Fortunately, itwasn't a bad enough injury where
I couldn't swim. Right. So whenI got into the pool, I quickly
realized that you know, what,like, everybody has essentially
a similar body, but it's thepeople that work harder, train
harder, put in the reps, havebetter stamina, have better
technique, have better form,just adapt better to the water
(08:43):
by being more those the peoplethat are winning. That's right,
so I just went all in onswimming. And fortunately, my
dad was actually a collegiateswimmer at Georgetown. So I did
have decent genes from that.
Right. And he was willing towork with me
Phil Wharton (08:54):
tech and technique, which is so important
in the wall.
John Lee Dumas (08:58):
Yeah, my start my flip turn. Yeah, I'm able
finally to man up and wearSpeedos. And all those things
added up to me ended up I endedup winning first place in the
southwestern which isessentially the entire South
southern state of Maine. For the50 yard freestyle, which is a
very competitive stroke. i Thefastest time. And that was you
(09:20):
know, starting off with anincredibly slow time, like I
ended up cutting my time like40% over the season, which is
almost insane. But I had I had areally bad starting place. So I
mean, you know, getting gettingthere wasn't easier well, but I
was able to apply that later inmy life to podcasting. I'm like,
just like swimming where I wasterrible when I started, but I
(09:41):
quickly got better. Why did Iget better because I put in the
reps I was doing right? Wepractice afternoon practice or
after? Yeah, twice a day threetimes a day putting in the reps.
And it just clicked for me thatit would be the same with
podcasting. Of course I wasgoing to be not good at speaking
to a microphone beinginterviewed interviewing other
people public speaking all thesethings, right, like put in the
wraps. And so that was a hugelabel for me that said, Hey, I'm
(10:06):
going to do this. I'm doing itdaily.
Phil Wharton (10:09):
That's amazing.
And you, so we're kind of seeingyour ascent you're rising in
your craft, the discovery, thedrives, you're motivated. What
kind of take us to your lowestmoment, John, what's what's what
was the fall for you in thisprocess? And how do you And
how'd you
John Lee Dumas (10:25):
get after podcasting launch? Or Yeah,
Phil Wharton (10:28):
after after the launch? Is there a moment that
for you that okay, it was sortof a, you flatline, you weren't
improving? And how did you pivotafter that?
John Lee Dumas (10:39):
I'd say my, my lowest points was trying to
figure out how to actuallymonetize what I was doing. I
mean, I went all in like I was,you know, doing a daily show, I
had no other job, no otherincome, no other revenue. I went
all in with a daily podcast. Andeven my coach Jamie was like, so
how are you going to make money?
And, you know, she was makingmoney by doing a bunch of
(11:00):
different things. And I waslike, Well, I just want to make
money just from this craft ofpodcasting. And we were
brainstorming ideas. And she waslike, Well, I mean, that might
work. That might not work, thatprobably won't work, and yada,
yada. So
Phil Wharton (11:14):
it hadn't been done yet, either. So then you're
almost in a freefall in thatyou're on your own. You have
great mentors, but it's asuspension of disbelief, you're
in there.
John Lee Dumas (11:23):
So then the lowest moment would be when I
launched my first products,which I thought was something
that was going to be my launchpad, it's actually generating
real revenue in my business. Andit just flopped. Like, it just
flopped. Nobody wanted it. Likelooking back hindsight now that
I speak about that in the bookthat you reference the path to
uncommon success. It's obviousto me why that book, that excuse
(11:46):
me, that product flopped. Butthe reality was, it taught me a
lot. And my very next product,very shortly after that was the
most successful thing I'veactually launched today, which
some of the you mentionedpodcasters paradise, which,
which we're still running tothis day, yes, nine years later.
So that's, you know, a biglearning point for me. And I
(12:08):
think for a lot of people thatare listening is, you know, that
biggest, like failure, that'slowest point that you have in
your business, in your life withyour products with your
services, could really be thelaunchpad that you use for the
next big thing.
Phil Wharton (12:24):
I think that was so wonderful about the book to
Jonasson. Okay, creators like tobe in the intuitive and they
like to go into the cave andcreate, create, create, but you
said, hey, look, I didn't haveproof of concept in this first
thing, as you just described,but then as podcasters paradise,
we're interfacing, we're gettingthis amazing real time data from
(12:44):
people, hey, what do you needsolving their big problems and
being of service? How can I helpyou? I mean, one of the greatest
things I get in the letters frompeople that have read our books
now, you know, first book 1996.
And now it's a blacklisted bestseller and all these things.
Again, thank you for helping meto help myself, in giving the
tools. That's what I love aboutyou. And Kate is it's full
(13:06):
disclosure, if you look on thewebsite, today, if you go to
entrepreneurs on fire, you know,in December income was $217,000.
I mean, it this is a personthat's willing to go take you
behind the backstage and giveyou that backstage pass of how
exactly they're doing it. Andit's just, you know, as
(13:27):
Meriwether Lewis said, Everyjourney is only contingent on
the provisions. And so you'regiving the tools and the
provisions here on the anvilGLD. What is a defining moment,
what what moment you thinkdefined you to make help you
become the leader in thispodcast space?
John Lee Dumas (13:48):
You know, I'm gonna stay with the theme that
you brought up there, which istransparency. I mean, I love the
fact that we are so transparentwith our business. And I think
that really does define a leaderis somebody that's willing to
say, you know, what, like, I'vegot nothing to hide, I'm gonna
open the kimono up, I'm going toshow you everything. It's not
all wins. It's not all rainbowsand unicorns, right? failures or
(14:10):
struggles or obstacles orchallenges. But there's also
wins successes and amazingmoments, we want to show you
everything so you can look atthe successes we're having and
emulate those successes, butalso look at the failures that
we're having, and avoid thosefailures. So now for over 100
months in a row. We've beenpublishing a monthly income
report, we have never been below$100,000 a month, remarkable 100
(14:36):
months which is just, you know,like such a, like a tribute to
the type of business that we'vebuilt and as you mentioned, some
months were two three, you know,I think our highest month was
close to $500,000. So we've beenlike really steady living a
lifestyle that we want, youknow, living location
independence. very lean, smallteam, we have a total of three
(14:59):
other There are virtualassistants on our team besides
myself and Kate's fantastic. Twoof them are in the Philippines,
one of them's in Pakistan. So Imean, it's just truly virtual
truly connected, truly lean. Andwe're happy to inspire other
people to do the same.
Phil Wharton (15:14):
And creating systems. I think that's one of
the strong points that Katebrings to the team. If you go to
Kate's take his her blog, and ablog and Audio Blog, it's
amazing, showing you how you cando this, wherever you are. And
in today's economy, a lot of theyoung people coming up really
have the Wanderlust want to beanywhere. And that's something
(15:35):
they can leverage. And you guyshave been off for even 90 days
on break and being able toproduce daily, amazing content
with some of the greatentrepreneurs of our new century
in the new economy, in yourjourney. What's, what's next for
you?
John Lee Dumas (15:53):
Honestly, I don't know. And I'm happy with
that, because I believe thereare so many amazing
opportunities just around thecorner, that I just want to be
ready for the one that makessense to me. I mean, I'm
getting, you know, so manyopportunities every single day
that, you know, it's just has tobe a note of basically
everything because I want to beready and willing and have the
(16:15):
time, energy and bandwidth,right? Say yes, when that next
thing is the right thing. Soright now, we know what's
working. Right moving forward.
You know, we have a lean teamwith systems, you know, our
businesses thriving, you know,working less than I've ever
worked before, but you know, I'menjoying life, you know, as much
or more. So right now, it's justlike, what's next? We'll say,
Phil Wharton (16:38):
fantastic. And in the slipstream on the show, we
kind of look back and give gemsof wisdom and parting advice.
What would you like to leavewith us today, as we close on
intrinsic like to leave
John Lee Dumas (16:49):
with a quote from Albert Einstein try not to
become a person of success, butrather a person of value. And
when that quote really sunk inwith me, I realized that I
needed to just focus onproviding value to this world.
And that success would findwould follow and find me. And
that's been true.
Phil Wharton (17:09):
John, you know, just such a pleasure to be with
you. I'm going to leave you withI know your schedule is so busy,
but I'm so glad you're takingtime for your own health. We
need more of you in the world.
We need you at full capacity.
And so that's a blessing. Thanksfor coming to intrinsic drive.
Such a wonderful time to be withyou. Thanks, brother. Appreciate
it. Phil. Thanks for being withus. We appreciate you opting in
(17:34):
subscribing, and reviewing usfor thumbing us up and following
us on socials. liking us. Welike you. Drop us a note. Tell
us what stories move you forbooks, videos, resources and
more information. Visit us at WH AR t o n health.com forward
(17:59):
slash shop Wharton health and besure to join us for the next
episode of intrinsic drive.
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