October 1, 2024 • 46 mins
Cherish Amber identifies as queer, gay, and a lesbian and prioritizes safe spaces for queer folks. She loves her job as a sex and relationship coach and focuses on clarity, communication, consent, and connection. Based in the UK, Cherish shares her experiences being part of the queer community and the differences around the world and being out for less time than her partner.
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https://www.instagram.com/thecherishamber
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
-
- Hello and welcome to Introducing Me.
I'm your host, Sarah. Istarted this podcast to get
to know other people and lifestyles while
(00:22):
discovering more about myself.
Each episode, I willgive a new guest a chance
to discuss their background,culture, interests,
or whatever they want to talkabout to help increase all
of our own worldviews.
Today I'd like to introduceyou to Cherish Amber.
Cherish is a passionateadvocate for pleasure,
empowerment, and consent.
As a queer woman, she prioritizes creating
queer safe spaces.
(00:42):
So she's here to talk about queerness
and why she's become a sex coach
and all of the good thingsthat come and Cherishs life.
So thank you so much, Cherish.
Why don't you go ahead and tell
the audience more about yourself?
- Amazing. Thank you so much.It's a pleasure to be here.
Um, yeah, exactly. Yousaid it nail on the head.
Um, I am a queer cis white woman.
(01:04):
Um, and that's where my stance comes from.
That's where my viewpointexperience comes from.
Um, I am a sex and relationship coach.
I absolutely love my job.
Um, I feel very lucky andblessed to be able to say that.
Um, and I have alwaysbeen super passionate
and interested in sex.
(01:25):
Um, since I can remember.
I, um, used to be inhigh level management,
and then I became a coach,
and I realized, um, thereason I became a coach is
because I realized that if young people
or anyone of any age couldunderstand their own pleasure
and feel good enough, then I might be able
to help people not experience some
(01:46):
of the not very greatexperiences I had growing up.
Um, SA and r and that kind of thing.
So yeah, that was where Ikind of led towards, um,
me becoming a coach.
And then as I've kindof, as my coaching, um,
business has grown anddeveloped, I've, um, gone on
to yeah, coach lots of client,uh, couples now since tends
(02:08):
to be my core demographics.
So, um, whilst I call myself a sex
and relationship coach, or a queer sex
and relationship coach,I kind of use the comma
after queer interchangeably
because, um, lots of peopleidentify as not heterosexual
or cisgendered, um,
but they wouldn't necessarilyidentify as queer.
(02:29):
So, yeah, I, um,
my coaching is about acompletely safe space for all,
regardless of orientation or gender.
Um, and yeah, I work, I'mreally blessed to work mainly
with people in North America and Europe.
Um, uh, yeah,
and like I said, I justabsolutely love my job.
I love people coming to me,um, in a space of arguing
(02:50):
and sexless and porn addiction,
and they leave my, um, containerfeeling like their marriage
or relationship is thebest it's ever been,
or they're, they're inthe best place ready
to head into a new relationship, ready
to like rip up the rule book
and change the narrativethat they've lived
by until that point.
So yeah, I feel really blessedto do my job. I love it.
- It's great to hear howmuch you love your job, um,
(03:13):
because that's not alwaysthe case for everyone.
But you used to bean upper level management.
So what was that switch like for you?
- I would say I'm quitea spiritual person.
Um, I used to run fourand five star hotels.
Um, so, uh, yeah, I usedto manage up to a team
(03:33):
of 170 at one point.
Um, and I loved my job.
I'm really, really, um,passionate about experience
for people, which is whyI think I have, you know,
people love my coaching so much
because it's about an experience
that you get within the space.
Um, I always knew something was missing.
(03:54):
I always felt unfulfilled. I loved my job.
I had put everything into a80, 90 hour weeks, you name it.
Um, but something alwaysfelt like it was missing.
Like I, it was kind ofsquare peg, round hole.
Like, I absolutely loved it,
but it just didn't feel exactly right.
So, um, I left a role
in hospitality accidentallyin January, 2020,
(04:16):
and none of us knew what was coming.
I know , um,
and started a new job,um, in, in April working
with some really cool charities.
And I started my coachingqualification in 2020.
Um, so yeah, August, 2020 I started, um,
and I graduated the following year
and I've been coaching ever since.
(04:37):
- And so what was it likekind of taking those first
coaching courses and figuringout like, how am I going
to support other people,
but not necessarily like,input, you know, my own
personal experiences into every situation?
- Yeah. So, um, I rememberI started my qualification.
(04:59):
It was a thousand hours in total.
I think I, we clocked up in the end
and, um, when I firststarted I was like, um,
how am I gonna be able to do this?
But at the same time, I reallyremember, like, I did a lot
of coaching when I was a manager,
because that's what you do.
Like, you never know who's gonna work
through the door, walk through the door.
I, I would think I'd clocked up
that I'd done a thousandinterviews in person, you know,
(05:20):
like in, um, when I washiring in hospitality,
'cause this is what you do, youknow, it is a high turnover.
And so I realized thatactually I had a lot of skills
to pull on, and it was justreally deeply listening.
And I'm a massive nerd, so as much
as I could possibly learn, I did.
Um, and then the first time I
gave my first coaching session,
(05:41):
I remember the person being like,
are you already a full-time coach?
And I said, no, this is my first one.
And she was like, there's,there's just no way.
And I, that I remember that feeling,
feeling really beautiful and, and each
and every single coachingsession I've done since has just
felt like I was born for it
is the best way I can describe it.
And that I don't ever wantthat to come from ego.
Like, I work really hardon not being an ego,
but I think I've had a reasonamount of hardship in my life.
(06:06):
It's definitely not been, um, incredible.
Although my life has beenincredible. I wouldn't change it
for the world, but I'vehad a reason amount
of hardship growing up.
And I think, you know,
we talk a lot in coachingabout transmission.
Like, you can only take people
to the depths that you've been yourself.
Um, and I've been through a fair amount
of relationship stuff,relationship trauma,
and I'm always building,
(06:27):
always growing, always doing my work.
I have a coach, I havea therapist, you know,
so I'm always bettering myself.
So I think that's, um,definitely how I think I'm able
to take people to, to deep places
and come out in a different way.
So, yeah. I, um, hope thatanswers your question.
- Yeah. Yeah, I think it did.
And you know, when you werefirst explaining your coaching
(06:49):
and kind of the logisticsof it with queerness,
with your own queerness, howhas, how have you been able
to give that safe space for everyone?
- Um, but I think by doingmy own work, you know,
really understanding wherethings like I may have
(07:10):
habitual or inherent transphobia, um,
and I'm really not afraid of work.
I'm, you know, I, I would saysome people in the past have
called me a bit of a process junkie.
Like, if I find a wrong stumblingblock inside my, you know,
something, I'm like, right, let's do it.
Let's journal, let'smeditate, let's, um, take it
to therapy book in a session,you know, whatever it is.
(07:31):
Speak to a speak to a, you know, my peers
and, and go like that.
So for that, I thinkcreating that safe space, um,
that's how I've been able tocreate more of a safer space
because yeah, I'm like,
by doing my own work, I'mable to create acceptance
for anyone for all, you know,if that, if that makes sense.
(07:52):
Um, because if someone comes in
and I notice I've got alittle bit of a, something,
you know, a little bit of a challenge
or I'm like, Ooh, I
notice a little bit of inherent judgment.
I'm like, okay, let's go and work on it.
So, um, and I learned really early,
I was really lucky in mycoaching qualification to,
you know, we were using genderlesslanguage really early on
(08:12):
and, you know, we had a lot oftraining on microaggressions,
you know, racism, gender awareness,
sexuality and that kind of thing.
And then also going on my journey, um,
in my queerness has been a radical shift.
So yeah, there's that as well, you know?
- So can you take us on thatjourney of your queerness?
(08:33):
- Yeah, so, um, I
know now that I'vealways known I was queer
or gay, um, I fell in love
with my best friend when I was 15.
She was incredible. Um,
and, um, I tried to come out
and, um, there just wasn'ta lot of representation
(08:55):
around when I was that age.
And so, um, definitely not inthe way that I kind of present
as, as a femme we would callit in the queer world.
Um, there was justwonderful friends of mine
and family friends thatwere, you know, they're kind
of more stereotypical, um,butch energy that you kind
of see in lesbian culture.
(09:15):
Um, and I guess it justin my brain, in my kind
of young teenage brain,didn't think that, um,
you could be gay or queer
and, you know, also be super feminine.
Um, you know, I didn'thave access to the L word
or that, anything like that.
Um, and so I kind of put her in a box.
(09:36):
I definitely had some dalliancesover the last few years,
uh, over, you know, myteens and my twenties,
and then met someone, um, a few years ago
and just was just like, wow,actually, like I really can see
that and allowed myself toreally feel into what it would be
to, um, to be out, to be in arelationship with, you know,
same sex, same sex relationship.
(09:58):
Um, and then, um, most recently, you know,
being in a dynamic with someonewho's been out for a really,
really long time and justunderstanding how the power of
that and how much she's taught me and,
and really deeply coming toterms with kind of living a life
for the last however many years.
And, um, and being able toreally gentle with myself in
(10:20):
that, um, and, and notkind of judge the that.
And then also understanding
and being able to create safetyfor people in that as well.
So like, you know,offering that, you know,
queerness is your queerness is your own,
and whatever label youdecide to go with, it's okay.
Like, there's this kind of big movement
towards you don't need a label.
(10:41):
Um, but sometimes actually that kind of,
you don't need a labelcomes from a little bit
of a homophobic place.
Um, because I think
that heterosexual peopledon't have a label.
So it's like, if you don't have a label,
then maybe you don't, um,then maybe you'll play
by the rules, as it were of society.
Um, and it's funny
'cause I talk a lot aboutthe fact that I kind
(11:01):
of have three labels.
I identify with three labels,
and that's very much a cultural thing.
So, um, I identify as queer.
Um, but, um,
and this is just my stuffthat I'm working through,
but I identify as queer, but
because I'm safe, I'm presenting,often people assume that,
um, you know, I might be pansexual
or I might date anyone of any gender.
(11:24):
And that for me isn't true.It's not my experience.
So I say that I'm also gay and that helps.
But, um, uh, in Britain,
in the UK we're in a slightlydifferent space between
what kind of gay means
and that there's a lot of people will say,
I thought only men could be gay.
So I also have the termlesbian as like my labels
that I use interchangeably.
(11:44):
So yeah, it's quite fun tolike also be playing with all
of them all the time and,and to feel into like,
why do I feel the need to,like concern if people think
that I might, you know,still sleep with men
or have relationships with men.
I'm just like, well, you know,it's just not me right now,
and that's where I'm at, so, you know.
- And so what is the, um, kind
(12:06):
of like the culture like in Britain
or the UK with queer spaces?
Like is it really differentthan what you're seeing
for people you coach with in the states
or elsewhere in Europe?
- Yeah, I mean, there's,there's a lot more,
um, kind of low level homophobia,
(12:29):
especially in the region that I live.
So I live in a bit more of a, a,
a rural region down in thebottom in the south of the UK.
Um, and I was, I have, I havehad two like reasonably, um,
bad, um, like, you,
your sort aren't allowed in here.
We, we want you to leave kind of energy
in like cafes and stuff.
(12:49):
But I would say it's lessextreme, but it's more constant.
So it's kind of like, um, oh,you don't fancy me, do you?
Like when I came out?
Or like, when we're talking about gender,
I just don't get it, you know,like my ex was non-binary,
so it's like I just don't get it and I'm,
and I'm not kind of willing to understand,
but I'm okay with it.
Um, that kind of like, I'm okay with it,
(13:11):
but um, I just don't wanna see it.
Whereas in the states, you havelike more of an acceptance,
but the opposites are much more extreme.
So like anti-abortion,
anti-gay marriage, that kind of thing.
Um, that's what I experience and like,
and this kind of overall, thiskind of, from some people,
(13:32):
especially in like more spiritualplaces that I see as like,
oh, you're just lacking in something.
There's just a lack of masculineor feminine in your life,
and if you just balance that out,
you wouldn't desire a woman .
So that's been quite interesting to track.
So yeah, on the whole,
I think probably the UK is alittle bit less extreme on,
(13:54):
its like hatred
or pro kind
of sits more in the middlestandard Britain sometimes.
Um, but the la yeah,
but the, the kind of constantlow level homophobia is just,
it's always kind of bubbling around.
Um, yeah, I had a, a realgo viral on Facebook,
um, and it clocked up like200,000 views in a couple
(14:16):
of days, and I just had themost ridiculous messages from
men on there, just likeindoctrinating the youth
and you're trying to thisdisgusting all this stuff.
And they're all based inthe US like, so yeah.
- And so then with thatlow level homophobia,
do you find at times
that you might like shyaway from your identity
(14:38):
that you're kind of like, Ineed to make sure I'm safe?
Or are you able to beauthentic at most times?
- I would say for the mostpart, I'm pretty authentic.
There's the challenge that Ithink a lot of femme presenting,
um, queer people will have, which is like,
(14:58):
to avoid the certaintypes of gaze, um, gaze,
g-a-z-y, g-a-z-e,like, you almost want to
like look more queer thanperhaps maybe I would choose
to on a regular basis,if that makes sense.
Um, and you always know straightaway when you shouldn't be
(15:19):
kissing or holding hands,like it's quite quick
to immediately, youknow, disconnect if, um,
if you see maybe agroup of like young guys
or something like that, becauseyou'll get the kind of like,
oof, you know, you'vejust not had the right
whatever, um, thrown at you.
So, um, yeah.
And I think, yeah, I, I think what I,
(15:41):
I talk about this quite a bitin terms of being queer is,
is always a slightlyheightened sense of, you know,
your nervous system voice hasto be slightly heightened.
You're always looking fordanger, just a tiny bit.
You can never fully relax.
Like, um,
and also one of the harder sides
of things I don't think manypeople talk about is like
(16:02):
being fetish, fetishized.
I cannot say that word at the moment.
Uh, fetishized, I'm a sexcoach, come on, Cherish.
Um, uh, by,
by other people specificallylike male cisgendered men,
het men, um, kind of,
you just get these likeleering looks at off,
you know, at cafe.
(16:22):
And that's quite hard sometimes.
And I'm in it definitelyin a position right now
where I'm like, oh, youknow, this feels a bit, um,
it feels a bit of a challengeto receive at the moment,
but that's just, you know,it just comes and ebbs
and flows.
- Yeah. So then your, you know,
your identity is part of you.
(16:44):
You are, you know, able toshare, you know, who you are.
How does that come into your coaching?
Is there, like, do youever find homophobia there?
- Um, no, I make quite abig thing about the fact
that I am queer and I supportqueer people, um, in coaching.
(17:07):
Um, it is not uncommon for queer people
to experience internalized homophobia.
And I do quite often endup working on that with,
with clients, which is,
which is actually a really nice thing
because as I said, like I'm,you know, it's pretty hard
to take people down to the
depths that you've not been yourself.
And I've definitely had to work
through my own internalized homophobia
and what society has kind of put on us.
(17:28):
Um, you know, so, um,
but yeah, I think for meit's just about like creating
the deepest amount of safety.
Like safety is the absolutecore pillar of my entire,
you know, what I do as mypractice, my coaching practice,
um, and just, um, allowinganything that someone wants
(17:48):
to bring to, you know, to justcome, to come to the surface
and to be worked on.
Um, and I think my journeywith queerness helps
that an awful lot in my lived experience.
But yeah, I often get,people often laugh at me
and say, is there anything that shock you?
And I'm like, no, you know, there's,
there's nothing you canbring that would shock me.
I, you know, and I oftenhave, I, I have clients
(18:11):
who will like, be sitting on something
and I can see them sittingon something for a second
and I'm like, it's okay,
whatever you are sittingon, I can bring it.
You can bring it, it's okay.
And they'll like say what they wanna say
and maybe they've cheated
or maybe it's about, youknow, over watching porn,
porn addiction or,
or thoughts that perhaps they don't
think are super, like, okay.
(18:31):
And they'll like, watch for my approval
or watch to see if I'm gonna get shocked
or like, raise my eyebrows.
And I'm like, great, I'mreally grateful you told me.
Like, let's work through it.And they're like, oh, okay.
And they're like, the immediate relief
that they see you see ontheir face is just amazing.
So, um, yeah, I think, Ithink that's really important.
I think that, you know, asa society and, you know,
and obviously there are somenuances where it's like,
(18:53):
if it's something illegal
or, you know, um, not a, youknow, illegal questionable,
but, you know, if it wassomething to do with children
or something like that,there are obviously nuances
that doesn't, thisdoesn't come into a thing,
but for the most part, youknow, people have got kinks,
different kinks, and theymight mention, you know,
they're really into a,
a mommy daddy kink or something like that.
I'm like, great, like let'swork on it, work, let's work.
(19:15):
You know, let's work ongetting that, you know, met
and that need validatedand that kind of thing.
So, um, yeah, I think that ifthat answers your question,
I went a bit of a tangentthere, but I love a tangent. So
- That is more than, okay.
So you've mentioned a couple times kind
of working on your owninternal like beliefs
and different, you know, phobias.
(19:36):
What has that work been like
and how have you seen yourself transform?
- Yeah. Um, I,
you know, I definitely noticedthat back in the day, not,
but way before I coached, Idefinitely, I know noticed that
(19:59):
I allowed myself to feel intowhat society fed us about, um,
queerness or transgender
and, you know, transgenderexperiences, you know,
back in maybe like the comingout of school, you know,
about 15 years ago.
Um, so oh, limey definitelymore than 15 years ago. Um, .
Um, so yeah.
(20:19):
Uh, and like,
and then realizing having,you know, spent more time,
you know, friends comeout and that kinda thing.
Okay, what does that look like?
What, what's, what's myinternal voice saying right now?
Let's look at the internalvoice. Is that mine?
And I'll do work, and I supportcoaching clients as well
for this is like, youknow, the internal voice.
(20:40):
Where does it come from?
Does it sound, does it feel like yours?
It'll be a process I do on myself.
Does it feel like yours or does it,
is it the voice of somebody else?
Um, sometimes it's the voice of a parent.
Sometimes it's like thevoice of like a news reader,
you know, excuse me, thenwe'll like go through
and if it is mine, I'm like, okay,
so where does that come from?
(21:01):
Like, is that a core belief?
Okay, why does that core belief exist?
And I'm like, question my own belief
system, if that makes sense.
Um, and yeah.
And now, now working with,you know, people with, from
so many different genders, ifthey, you know, if they're cis
or not, um, and supporting them
and being advocates for them.
And now I find myself, youknow, having done all this work
(21:25):
by myself, being a bit of aneducator in lots of spaces
and peers coming to me andbeing like, how do I word this?
And how do I work through this?
And, and being able to be that to the best
of my ability spokesperson for, um,
for people that perhaps they don't feel
that they can open up,
ask questions openlytoo, if that makes sense.
But yeah, just to return backto your question, I think,
(21:46):
yeah, like I said, questioning
that internal voice isn't mine.
Does it belong to me? Um, is it societies?
And if it is mine yeah,why, how did it get there?
Um, and working throughthat and just, and,
and I think one of thebiggest things I talk about
to people is like gettingreally comfortable
with being uncomfortable.
Um, especially around thingslike race or, um, queerness
(22:07):
or anything like that.
It's like, okay, well it'sgonna feel uncomfortable
'cause you're brushing upagainst what you've been,
how you've been brought up or, um,
what society has toldyou growing up. So yeah.
- And so as you've becomeadvocates for more people,
as you've kind of strengthenedyour core beliefs,
have you had your own advocatefor your queer identity?
(22:30):
- Oof.
Um, yes.
I think some a bit, butmaybe less so if I'm honest.
Like, I do find myselfbeing a little bit, um,
a little bit of a lone wolf.
Um, the person in mylife, um, has been out for
so long, um, that, you know, she has
(22:52):
a lot more lived experience.
And so when I'm kind of come to her
and be like, oh, I'm noticing this,
or like, I, I mentioned earlierabout the male gaze, um,
g-a-z-e, I like it being a little
bit confronting and a struggle.
It's like she's in a space ofwhere she just like, is able
to really welcome me into that and, um,
and be like a really hear, really see you.
(23:12):
So that's been really helpful.
But I think, yeah, it's, um,it's super important to, um,
get out and meet more queerpeople because there is a,
and it's something thatI definitely, you know,
work on to the best of my ability.
As I said, I live in aslightly more rural space,
but, um, yeah, it's, it's interesting
because as much as youknow, allyship exists,
(23:35):
there's also a lived experience
that you just can't quiteunderstand if you don't have it.
Um, so yeah, it's always,uh, an interesting space
to move in, but that's a great question.
Probably lesser than I would like,
but I definitely have some people .
- Well, that's good that youhave some people and.
You know, as you know, you'veworked on yourself and,
(23:56):
and come into yourselfthen as kind of like, you,
you have those opportunitiesto realize, like, who do I want
to surround myself with?
So how in a rural area have you been able
to find queer communities?
Do you find yourselfneeding to venture out
of the rural areas?
- Yeah. Um, I think theinteresting piece here is the fact
(24:19):
that I, I do, there's,
there's an incrediblequeer community down here,
but I work with them a lot.
So I work and then I'm in my workspace.
Um, and so I have definitelyfound it difficult to kind
of straddle the line betweenbeing in my work, um,
and being, you know, I dosupport the pride community
down here running a placespace called The Pleasure Zone,
(24:42):
which is like freeintimate support for, um,
18 plus people.
Um, folk and I, um,
they can just come in and askme anything about sex, love,
pleasure, gender, you know, anything.
And, um, so I have found myself,
(25:02):
yeah, looking to kind of findpeople like me, my peers,
it there is a bit more branching out.
I traveled, I went to Londonfor a really big lesbian
night a few months ago,which was really good fun.
And just meeting more people.There's a lot more vibrant
community in London, um,
and Bristol and everything like that.
And I, and I love the sensation
of walking down a street inBristol or London or Manchester,
(25:23):
and it's just like anythinggoes, it's such a nice space.
And I'm really lucky, I livein a university town, um,
where I live, so there's likea lot more, um, diversity,
which is super yummy.
Um, it there're super young,super quirky, queer out,
you know, like lots of, um, yeah,
lots of diversity, which is nice.
So, um, but as an age gap andall of those kind of things.
(25:46):
So I think it's a bit of a mix, really.
Like yeah, finding peoplethrough work, just, you know,
still speaking to friends
and then also a lot of onlinecommunities and, um, yeah.
And there's a big community.
I like, I, I would love to think
that I'll be traveling a bit more, um,
to places like Berlin nextyear or the end of this year
and next year, um, becausethere's so epic sex
(26:08):
and queer communities over there.
So I'd love to like start
to just get my toe in those spaces.
- So then when it comes towork, you know, you, it's a way
for you to also meet peopleto connect with others
who are similar to you.
And you mentionedthat right now you're kind
of like specializing incouples, so you know,
you have a wide array oftopics that you cover.
(26:30):
What do you think people need more of?
- Need more of?
In, in, in coaching?
- Yeah. Like what do you,like as you meet people,
they come to you with different things.
- Yeah. - Like where are youseeing gaps in say like sex
and relationship knowledge?
(26:50):
- Mm. Yeah, yeah.
Um, I think what happensis, is really easy
for communication to die, um,
in a relationship in along-term relationship.
And, and what happens is whencommunication dies, sex dies,
or often sex goes first,then communication dies.
And I truly, trulybelieve that at a center
of every good relationship is great sex.
(27:12):
Um, and I have, my methodologyis based around the four C's,
so it's my four C's methodology,which is consent, clarity,
communication, and connection.
And all of those four thingsare all based around sex,
but they're also based aroundan amazing relationship.
Like what do you know,clarity, what do I want?
You know, getting really clear about
what I want in a relationship,what does it look like?
(27:33):
What do you want? How canI understand what you want?
You know, how can Icommunicate that clearly so
that I'm not projecting,I'm not trying to fix you
with a time or rescueor advise you, you know?
Um, so in terms of whatI'm seeing, it's definitely
that communication breakdown
and then that the, thesex goes first often
and then, you know,connects a lot of people.
(27:55):
Um, forget how deeplyconnecting great sex can be, um,
and how passionate and powerful it feels,
and how the next day youmight be looking at each other
and you're just like, youcan sense how that, you know,
you can sense in a different space.
The connection feels completely different.
Um, and, and sex can feel likea chore a lot of the time,
(28:16):
but I'm kind of on a bitof a, a, um, one man,
although there's definitelya few of us on this mission
to like, get people toremember how incredible gentle,
you know, powerful sex can be.
Um, and yeah, definitely.What else do I see?
Um, yeah, mis mismatchingdesires is quite a big one,
and how to overcome that
(28:36):
and people just forgetting,like having super open,
curious mind, um, aroundrelationships, it's really easy
for us to get shut off.
And what happens is we get shut off
and then we feel resentment,and then there's arguments,
and then it's just thisnever ending spiral.
So that's what people tendto come to me with, um, yeah,
as mismatch of desires,really low communication
and absolutely no sex.
(28:56):
And by the time they leaveme, I feel really lucky
to say they're normally havinggreat sex communication is
the best it's ever been, and you know,
that, that desires back.
So I absolutely love that,you know, part of, um,
yeah, I love that part of what I do.
- And I'm sure it'sdifferent for everybody,
but what is kind of like thelife cycle, like the lifespan
(29:17):
of you working with somebody?
- Um, I tend to workin, um, like six months.
So I do 10, 10 sessions acrossfive or six months basically.
So we meet every two weeks,um, is a great amount of,
you know, space betweensessions, as long as the guests,
the client is, um, is kind ofdedicated to the, you know,
(29:40):
to the coaching container.
Um, so yeah, I can work, Iwork there, you know, couples
between six months
and then if it's like,if they are perhaps like
really struggling, um, we might do, let's,
let's commit to a year together.
And then after that wejust do maintenance.
So, um, you know, I workedwith someone quite recently,
(30:04):
actually for a good eight months,
and now he's just on like everytwo months I just meet him
and, um, he's like, this isgoing on and this is going on.
And we do that. So II, I really like that.
I'm, I'm a big believer in
coaching myself out of business, .
Um, I think there's this kindof energy, um, in like, uh,
in some of the, you know, maybe less, um,
(30:26):
in integrity coaches that
you should keep them on forever and ever.
I coach these on forever and ever
and I'd like, I wanna coachpeople out of needing me.
I wanna coach, you know, I want
to have people be like
relationship's the best it's ever been.
And now, you know, we, you know, oh, this,
this thing caught us this week.
Can we just jump on fora call? Yeah, no worries.
Jump on for a couple of hours with me
(30:47):
and we just dive intoit, if that makes sense.
Um, so yeah, to answer yourquestion again, probably, uh,
working blocks of 10.
Um, first, first block is 10if people want to do that,
but sometimes they wannacome and do a couple
and see how it feels, um,
and then yeah, six monthsto 12 months depending on
where they're at, and thenmaintenance after that.
- Right. I think it'sinteresting to hear, you know,
(31:09):
the different philosophies, like your goal
is they shouldn't need me.
Like, let's get to that point.
Um, I think there's sometimes this fear of
if I start talking tosomeone about whatever it may
be, um.- Yeah.
- A coach or a therapist, like,I'm gonna be stuck with 'em
for the rest of my life because like,
how are things going to change?
(31:31):
- Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Um, and, and also like spaceto change your mind, right?
Like, I have a, like an hourlong session with people free
of charge always just togive them like insights into
what I'm seeing in their relationship
and how I think it couldprogress and how it could work.
Um, and if it's not rightfit for either of us,
(31:51):
then we just, we just say no,it's not gonna be a right fit.
You know, there's been timeswhere I have accepted coaching
clients, it's not feltright and it's not quite,
not quite fit, it's notbeen quite a right fit,
and we've like, it's takena little bit more time
to maybe get into the
sessions or whatever, and then it's fine.
But it, you know, I thinkit's super important that,
you know, that everyonefeels like, oh my god, yeah.
(32:13):
Because I want people tofeel like they're coming
and sitting on my sofa onmy couch and, you know,
and having a cup of teaand, um, or a coffee.
I guess I'm very British sometimes, um,
and having a cup of tea andjust being like, Hey, come
and tell me, like, let'swork on this together.
So yeah, I'm, I'm reallypassionate about, um,
it being a great fit for everyone
(32:34):
and yeah, coaching myselfout of business, that's,
that's me being integrity, you know.
- Yes. Now your little quipright there about, you know,
sometimes being too British.
What is it like to connect
with people from different cultures
and coach with them knowing that
their personal experiences may be
wildly different from yours?
(32:57):
- I work really hard to,
I'll always do my homework beforehand.
Um, I'm really blessed
that I've got friendsin North America in lots
of different places in North America.
So like sometimes in the past they've
like called me out for things.
They're like, we wouldjust never say that.
I'm like, okay, that helps. Sothat's really helpful to have
that outside of a coaching container.
Like for instance, someoneI would never say are,
(33:19):
we fell out and I'm like, in Britain, like
to have an argument wouldbe like, are we fell out?
Um, but it's a really British term.
Um, or like, um, to fancy someone,
like in Britain we would say,I fancy the pants off you
and in North America,like, just not there.
Like what? That doesn't even make sense.
So that's been reallyhelpful to have friends,
(33:41):
um, and ask questions.
But also like my coachingclients in other parts of Europe
where there is a bit more ofa cultural divide, um, uh,
yeah, I'll do a lot of my own homework
and I'll also, um, to make sureI'll speak to peers as well
who are based in those cities
or countries to make surethat I'm not missing anything.
And then I have regular supervision.
(34:02):
So I have supervision from, um,
my supervisor's been in thebusiness for, uh, she's 70,
so she's been in the businessfor a really long time.
She's a therapist
and, um, just like really checking in
with certain things that I'm doing.
Does this feel right?Does this feel right?
She's like, yeah, well lookat this. Well look at this.
Here's some, you know, some stuff to do.
But yeah, it's super importantfor me, like the absolute
(34:25):
core is safety in terms of my business,
but like integrity, mebeing in integrity, um,
is super important to me
and that's something that Iwork on really, really hard.
- And so how do you, you know, connect?
Like you have the supervisor, you know,
you, you know, peers.
How does that connection work?
- Um, my coaching container,my qualification that I got,
(34:48):
we are all on an alumnigroup, which is great.
It's a really busy group.
Um, and there's so manyquestions on there.
You could type in anythingto do with coaching
and there'd be someone and lots
of different people's perspectives
and I'm always looking
on there, which is really, really helpful.
And yeah, I, I connect
with my supervisor on, on a phone call.
We have about a 90 minutechat every few weeks, um,
(35:11):
and I take a case study, I take one
of the people I'm workingwith, one of my clients,
and we kind of run througheverything they've been
experiencing and, and,and everything like that.
And, and, um, and,
and how I've done my methodology,how I've been working
through how, what I've offeredthem, the different practices
and she'll give mepointers and, and responses
(35:31):
and we'll work through, um, we'll work
through it in that way.
So yeah, that's tends to be how I connect,
but also, um, doing CPD, so, um,
making sure that I'mdoing, taking short courses
to make sure that my coachingis like absolutely like
needle point, what would you call it?
Like crystal clear on the nose.
(35:52):
That's super important tome as well. So that helps.
Um, and eventually I'd really like
to get a master's intrauma, so, um, that's kind
of on the horizon at some point as well, .
- And do you find in your coaching
that trauma comes up very often?
- Yeah, every session.Yeah. I'd say every session.
Maybe not every session, butlike, it's super important
(36:15):
to be really sensitive andreally, really empathetic
to someone's experience.
I think that, um, we livein a world where very few
of us are walking aroundbeing like, I'm fine.
Childhood was fine,everything's brilliant.
Like, um,
and I think that that's whypeople come to me is like,
they have noticed somepatterns in their relationship
that aren't necessarily feeling great,
(36:37):
and then suddenly like,
actually there'ssomething bigger going on.
And often what happens iswhen some people are in a
relationship and theycreate tons of safety,
that's when the body startsto allow us to process trauma.
Um, and what it will unfortunatelylook like is often kind
of projected onto thepartner, but it's often not.
(36:59):
It's just the body finallyfeels safe enough, um,
to like look at, you know, something
traumatic happened in childhoodor as a young al adult,
and then the body's like, right, let's go.
Um, and it can be incredibly difficult
to receive that as a partner.
It's like, I haven't doneanything, nothing's changed,
but suddenly you are angry at me.
Or, you know, and that's
what we end up working through a lot.
(37:19):
So yeah, I would say every,maybe not every session,
but definitely everyclient base I have, um,
we're processing some kind of trauma,
but it's not always like,it's also super important
to remember to be really gentle with it.
So it's not always like, right.
I think some people think aboutprocessing trauma as like,
dive in, let's go.
Um, but it's not, it's about just really
(37:39):
holding that space gently.
Like first and foremost, can we find
acceptance for that part of us?
Can we, can we meet thatpart of us with love
and kindness for whatever happened?
You know, if it smalltrauma with a capital T
or trauma with a lowercase t.
- And you mentioned early onhow, you know, trauma has sort
of played into some of whyyou got into what you're into
(38:00):
and that, you know, your past is not
necessarily sunshine and roses.
Are you willing to dive ina little bit on some of what
that past was like for you?
- Yeah. Um, yeah.
I, my dad left when I was 18 months old
and I didn't have a relationshipwith him, which meant
that I think that's some ofthe reason that I sought out
(38:22):
male relationships, if I'm honest.
Um, I think I wasprobably, um, seeking, um,
a father figure in some kind
of subconscious way in lots of ways.
I definitely process alot of that when therapy.
Um, and, um, yeah,
I'm an only child and, um, wegrew up with, you know, like
(38:45):
it wasn't super abundant.
It wasn't bad, but it wasn'tsuper abundant, which meant
that, you know, I wasworking early, you know,
I started working when I was14, worked really, really hard.
I was working a full-time job
and doing school at the same time, um,
which was definitely my choice.
It wasn't through like,um, needs must as it were.
But, um, yeah, I've worked, um, a lot
and then I, I had a coupleof really not great partners.
(39:08):
Um, I've had, um, some prettyabusive partners to be fair.
And I really worked through that and,
and processed the kind oflike unraveling of that
I've experienced, um,significant SA in my life, um,
through the hands of partners and friends.
Um, and,
and I also had a stalkerat one point in my life, so
that was super fun.
(39:29):
Um, so he was an ex-partner, so, um, yeah,
definitely have processed all of that.
And just coming to terms with, um,
and also like, yeah, coming to terms
with the fact I was livinga lie a lot of my life
and yeah, like in these he relationships
where I thought it was like Iwas gonna live this societal
dream of like, you know,2.4 kids in a wedding ring
(39:50):
and realizing that I neveractually wanted that.
Um, and it was actually all a lie.
Um, so that's also like, that, that's one
of the ones I'm process, you know,
pro processing in, in lots of ways.
Um, or like sitting with
and realizing, I guess I thinkI've definitely processed it
now, but, um, that's definitelybeen part of the journey.
And yeah, there's someother bits thrown in there,
(40:10):
but I think like sometimesit's really, really great
to just be like, these things happened
and, you know, I'm incredibly,incredibly grateful
and I thank that part of me
and the, you know, the part of me that
got through those things.
Um, and,
and also I think it'swhat's led me to be a kind
of well-rounded human nowwho's pretty much capable
of taking on anything, I reckon.
(40:31):
I don't think there's a lotthat universe could throw me
these days that I couldn't cope with.
- Yes. Well, I appreciate, you know,
you sharing some of that information.
Um,
but it sounds like you'veworked through a lot of things,
which means.- Yeah.
- You know, which, which leadsyou to be able to say like,
yes, this happened to me,this is part of my past.
Um,
because, you know, you are queer,
(40:54):
you exclusively date women,uh, you are, femme presenting,
you know, someone might makean assumption like Cherish has
sworn off all men.
Um, so what is kind of your interaction
with men these days ona being friends, being,
(41:14):
you know, really good friends?
Where where does that fallwith everything that's happened
with you, your identity, and your past?
- Oh, this is a great question. Amazing.
Um, I think
that I've got someincredible male friends.
Two of my best friends inthe entire universe are men.
(41:34):
Um, completely platonic, neverbeen anything else, like, um,
have the most incredible manin my life, Ben, who, um,
who is just my rock.
Um, he is without a doubt,
the closest thing I've got to a dad.
He's my, like, I did this,or what am I gonna do?
Or I, you know, I'm, howam I gonna do my business?
(41:55):
And, um, I helped, um, hewrote an incredible book, um,
about sex for boys, um,for like, you know, 15,
16-year-old boys and up,um, which I was really,
really blessed to have supported on.
So he's like, you know,he's my, he's just perfect.
He's wonderful, you know,
and so I'm reallygrateful to have that kind
(42:15):
of role model when I've hadsome, like, not very nice
to have things happenwith men in the past.
Um, and he's always thefirst one to be like,
that's absolutely unacceptable.
You know, all of that kind of stuff.
Um, and, um,
I definitely think I'vebecome a lot more aware
of this sense of ownershipthat lots of men have,
(42:37):
think they have over women,um, this kind of, um,
uh, like feeling like
anyone's fair game.
Um, and whereas I usedto be a bit blind to it,
I'm a lot more aware of it now.
Um, and so I think that perhaps my, um,
(43:00):
yeah, I think that perhaps I'mjust a bit more hyper aware,
uh, and that's been partof my process is just like,
you know, what, how do I wannadress today, for instance,
to create safety in my bodyand that kind of thing.
And then, and then having, youknow, having some like, um,
having an experience of like,shouldn't, shouldn't be like
that, and how can I help that?
(43:20):
And, and, and actually in,in lots of ways, some of the,
you know, some of the reasonI do my job is to help men to,
um, come to fullunderstanding of, you know,
how society has shaped them
and how it's super importantto, um, support them
to understand what,you know, what it means
to be a man in, in today's society.
(43:40):
So, you know, um, for, youknow, in fact, I don't know,
right now 30% of my clientsare cisgendered, you know, men.
Um, uh, I wouldn't necessarilyknow if they'd all identify
as heterosexual, but, um, yeah, that's,
and I love that part ofstuff, so that really helps me
to make sure that I'm not beingbiased in any way since I've
(44:02):
come out, because I thinkit's a really common thing
for people to be super biased, um,
after they've maybe nothad some se, you know,
some great experiences,
but I have worked really hard to make sure
that there isn't much biasapart from Yeah, like I said,
when I'm out and about noticing
that there's like a slightobject objectification
that perhaps I wasn't awareof as much when I was younger.
- Good. I feel like that's,you know, you never know, uh,
(44:25):
even what you just saidthere with, you know,
the bias that can come through.
So it's, it's good to hear that you're,
you're in a good place with all of that.
- Mm-Hmm. Yeah.- Now,
before I start to wrap things up,
is there anything elseyou would like to share
with the listeners today?
- No, not at all. Um, justknow that if you're not having
(44:46):
sex that blows your mind,it is absolutely possible.
Um, and um, I know thatsometimes when I say that,
it can feel really distant to some people,
but it absolutely is possible.
And, um, you are absolutelyworthy of having beautiful,
deep rich intimacy in yourpartnership and outside of it.
- Great. Now, at theend of all my episodes,
(45:08):
I do ask my guests a random question.
So my question for you today is
what seasons do you look forward to?
- Ooh, well, I'm British, sowe don't have as many seasons
as I feel like you have in North America.
Um, but I always lookforward to summer in the UK
because we get some really nice,
uh, we get the best weather.
(45:29):
I'm a bit of a fan of Christmas, um,
but my birthday's on the 5th of January,
so I'm always like waitingto get Christmas over with
so I can get to my birthday.
Um, and I am super witchy, soI absolutely love Halloween.
(45:49):
- All right. That bringsthis episode to a close.
So if you would like toconnect with Cherish,
her website will be in the description
along with her Instagram.
There will also be a direct link
to her relationship First aid kit,
if you wanna check that out.
It's also on her website,
but you can find thatdirectly in the description.
If you would like toconnect with our podcast.
Our website is also in the description.
(46:10):
It brings you to all of ourpast episodes, resources,
and social media links from guests
along with our social media.
We are on Instagram,Facebook, and LinkedIn.
So if you wanna go follow those pages,
that support is always appreciated.
There's also a link to supportthe podcast monetarily.
That support is always appreciated,
and my email is in thedescription if you would like
to reach out for anything,
(46:31):
including being a guest onthe show to share your story.
So thank you so muchCherish for spending time
with me today, and to mylisteners for taking the time out
of your day to hear a new story.
Until next time, bye.
- Thank you so much. Bye.
-
- Hello and welcome to Introducing Me.
I'm your host, Sarah. Istarted this podcast to get
to know other people and lifestyles while
(00:22):
discovering more about myself.
Each episode, I willgive a new guest a chance
to discuss their background,culture, interests,
or whatever they want to talkabout to help increase all
of our own worldviews.
Today I'd like to introduceyou to Cherish Amber.
Cherish is a passionateadvocate for pleasure,
empowerment, and consent.
As a queer woman, she prioritizes creating
queer safe spaces.
(00:42):
So she's here to talk about queerness
and why she's become a sex coach
and all of the good thingsthat come and Cherishs life.
So thank you so much, Cherish.
Why don't you go ahead and tell
the audience more about yourself?
- Amazing. Thank you so much.It's a pleasure to be here.
Um, yeah, exactly. Yousaid it nail on the head.
Um, I am a queer cis white woman.
(01:04):
Um, and that's where my stance comes from.
That's where my viewpointexperience comes from.
Um, I am a sex and relationship coach.
I absolutely love my job.
Um, I feel very lucky andblessed to be able to say that.
Um, and I have alwaysbeen super passionate
and interested in sex.
(01:25):
Um, since I can remember.
I, um, used to be inhigh level management,
and then I became a coach,
and I realized, um, thereason I became a coach is
because I realized that if young people
or anyone of any age couldunderstand their own pleasure
and feel good enough, then I might be able
to help people not experience some
(01:46):
of the not very greatexperiences I had growing up.
Um, SA and r and that kind of thing.
So yeah, that was where Ikind of led towards, um,
me becoming a coach.
And then as I've kindof, as my coaching, um,
business has grown anddeveloped, I've, um, gone on
to yeah, coach lots of client,uh, couples now since tends
(02:08):
to be my core demographics.
So, um, whilst I call myself a sex
and relationship coach, or a queer sex
and relationship coach,I kind of use the comma
after queer interchangeably
because, um, lots of peopleidentify as not heterosexual
or cisgendered, um,
but they wouldn't necessarilyidentify as queer.
(02:29):
So, yeah, I, um,
my coaching is about acompletely safe space for all,
regardless of orientation or gender.
Um, and yeah, I work, I'mreally blessed to work mainly
with people in North America and Europe.
Um, uh, yeah,
and like I said, I justabsolutely love my job.
I love people coming to me,um, in a space of arguing
(02:50):
and sexless and porn addiction,
and they leave my, um, containerfeeling like their marriage
or relationship is thebest it's ever been,
or they're, they're inthe best place ready
to head into a new relationship, ready
to like rip up the rule book
and change the narrativethat they've lived
by until that point.
So yeah, I feel really blessedto do my job. I love it.
- It's great to hear howmuch you love your job, um,
(03:13):
because that's not alwaysthe case for everyone.
But you used to bean upper level management.
So what was that switch like for you?
- I would say I'm quitea spiritual person.
Um, I used to run fourand five star hotels.
Um, so, uh, yeah, I usedto manage up to a team
(03:33):
of 170 at one point.
Um, and I loved my job.
I'm really, really, um,passionate about experience
for people, which is whyI think I have, you know,
people love my coaching so much
because it's about an experience
that you get within the space.
Um, I always knew something was missing.
(03:54):
I always felt unfulfilled. I loved my job.
I had put everything into a80, 90 hour weeks, you name it.
Um, but something alwaysfelt like it was missing.
Like I, it was kind ofsquare peg, round hole.
Like, I absolutely loved it,
but it just didn't feel exactly right.
So, um, I left a role
in hospitality accidentallyin January, 2020,
(04:16):
and none of us knew what was coming.
I know , um,
and started a new job,um, in, in April working
with some really cool charities.
And I started my coachingqualification in 2020.
Um, so yeah, August, 2020 I started, um,
and I graduated the following year
and I've been coaching ever since.
(04:37):
- And so what was it likekind of taking those first
coaching courses and figuringout like, how am I going
to support other people,
but not necessarily like,input, you know, my own
personal experiences into every situation?
- Yeah. So, um, I rememberI started my qualification.
(04:59):
It was a thousand hours in total.
I think I, we clocked up in the end
and, um, when I firststarted I was like, um,
how am I gonna be able to do this?
But at the same time, I reallyremember, like, I did a lot
of coaching when I was a manager,
because that's what you do.
Like, you never know who's gonna work
through the door, walk through the door.
I, I would think I'd clocked up
that I'd done a thousandinterviews in person, you know,
(05:20):
like in, um, when I washiring in hospitality,
'cause this is what you do, youknow, it is a high turnover.
And so I realized thatactually I had a lot of skills
to pull on, and it was justreally deeply listening.
And I'm a massive nerd, so as much
as I could possibly learn, I did.
Um, and then the first time I
gave my first coaching session,
(05:41):
I remember the person being like,
are you already a full-time coach?
And I said, no, this is my first one.
And she was like, there's,there's just no way.
And I, that I remember that feeling,
feeling really beautiful and, and each
and every single coachingsession I've done since has just
felt like I was born for it
is the best way I can describe it.
And that I don't ever wantthat to come from ego.
Like, I work really hardon not being an ego,
but I think I've had a reasonamount of hardship in my life.
(06:06):
It's definitely not been, um, incredible.
Although my life has beenincredible. I wouldn't change it
for the world, but I'vehad a reason amount
of hardship growing up.
And I think, you know,
we talk a lot in coachingabout transmission.
Like, you can only take people
to the depths that you've been yourself.
Um, and I've been through a fair amount
of relationship stuff,relationship trauma,
and I'm always building,
(06:27):
always growing, always doing my work.
I have a coach, I havea therapist, you know,
so I'm always bettering myself.
So I think that's, um,definitely how I think I'm able
to take people to, to deep places
and come out in a different way.
So, yeah. I, um, hope thatanswers your question.
- Yeah. Yeah, I think it did.
And you know, when you werefirst explaining your coaching
(06:49):
and kind of the logisticsof it with queerness,
with your own queerness, howhas, how have you been able
to give that safe space for everyone?
- Um, but I think by doingmy own work, you know,
really understanding wherethings like I may have
(07:10):
habitual or inherent transphobia, um,
and I'm really not afraid of work.
I'm, you know, I, I would saysome people in the past have
called me a bit of a process junkie.
Like, if I find a wrong stumblingblock inside my, you know,
something, I'm like, right, let's do it.
Let's journal, let'smeditate, let's, um, take it
to therapy book in a session,you know, whatever it is.
(07:31):
Speak to a speak to a, you know, my peers
and, and go like that.
So for that, I thinkcreating that safe space, um,
that's how I've been able tocreate more of a safer space
because yeah, I'm like,
by doing my own work, I'mable to create acceptance
for anyone for all, you know,if that, if that makes sense.
(07:52):
Um, because if someone comes in
and I notice I've got alittle bit of a, something,
you know, a little bit of a challenge
or I'm like, Ooh, I
notice a little bit of inherent judgment.
I'm like, okay, let's go and work on it.
So, um, and I learned really early,
I was really lucky in mycoaching qualification to,
you know, we were using genderlesslanguage really early on
(08:12):
and, you know, we had a lot oftraining on microaggressions,
you know, racism, gender awareness,
sexuality and that kind of thing.
And then also going on my journey, um,
in my queerness has been a radical shift.
So yeah, there's that as well, you know?
- So can you take us on thatjourney of your queerness?
(08:33):
- Yeah, so, um, I
know now that I'vealways known I was queer
or gay, um, I fell in love
with my best friend when I was 15.
She was incredible. Um,
and, um, I tried to come out
and, um, there just wasn'ta lot of representation
(08:55):
around when I was that age.
And so, um, definitely not inthe way that I kind of present
as, as a femme we would callit in the queer world.
Um, there was justwonderful friends of mine
and family friends thatwere, you know, they're kind
of more stereotypical, um,butch energy that you kind
of see in lesbian culture.
(09:15):
Um, and I guess it justin my brain, in my kind
of young teenage brain,didn't think that, um,
you could be gay or queer
and, you know, also be super feminine.
Um, you know, I didn'thave access to the L word
or that, anything like that.
Um, and so I kind of put her in a box.
(09:36):
I definitely had some dalliancesover the last few years,
uh, over, you know, myteens and my twenties,
and then met someone, um, a few years ago
and just was just like, wow,actually, like I really can see
that and allowed myself toreally feel into what it would be
to, um, to be out, to be in arelationship with, you know,
same sex, same sex relationship.
(09:58):
Um, and then, um, most recently, you know,
being in a dynamic with someonewho's been out for a really,
really long time and justunderstanding how the power of
that and how much she's taught me and,
and really deeply coming toterms with kind of living a life
for the last however many years.
And, um, and being able toreally gentle with myself in
(10:20):
that, um, and, and notkind of judge the that.
And then also understanding
and being able to create safetyfor people in that as well.
So like, you know,offering that, you know,
queerness is your queerness is your own,
and whatever label youdecide to go with, it's okay.
Like, there's this kind of big movement
towards you don't need a label.
(10:41):
Um, but sometimes actually that kind of,
you don't need a labelcomes from a little bit
of a homophobic place.
Um, because I think
that heterosexual peopledon't have a label.
So it's like, if you don't have a label,
then maybe you don't, um,then maybe you'll play
by the rules, as it were of society.
Um, and it's funny
'cause I talk a lot aboutthe fact that I kind
(11:01):
of have three labels.
I identify with three labels,
and that's very much a cultural thing.
So, um, I identify as queer.
Um, but, um,
and this is just my stuffthat I'm working through,
but I identify as queer, but
because I'm safe, I'm presenting,often people assume that,
um, you know, I might be pansexual
or I might date anyone of any gender.
(11:24):
And that for me isn't true.It's not my experience.
So I say that I'm also gay and that helps.
But, um, uh, in Britain,
in the UK we're in a slightlydifferent space between
what kind of gay means
and that there's a lot of people will say,
I thought only men could be gay.
So I also have the termlesbian as like my labels
that I use interchangeably.
(11:44):
So yeah, it's quite fun tolike also be playing with all
of them all the time and,and to feel into like,
why do I feel the need to,like concern if people think
that I might, you know,still sleep with men
or have relationships with men.
I'm just like, well, you know,it's just not me right now,
and that's where I'm at, so, you know.
- And so what is the, um, kind
(12:06):
of like the culture like in Britain
or the UK with queer spaces?
Like is it really differentthan what you're seeing
for people you coach with in the states
or elsewhere in Europe?
- Yeah, I mean, there's,there's a lot more,
um, kind of low level homophobia,
(12:29):
especially in the region that I live.
So I live in a bit more of a, a,
a rural region down in thebottom in the south of the UK.
Um, and I was, I have, I havehad two like reasonably, um,
bad, um, like, you,
your sort aren't allowed in here.
We, we want you to leave kind of energy
in like cafes and stuff.
(12:49):
But I would say it's lessextreme, but it's more constant.
So it's kind of like, um, oh,you don't fancy me, do you?
Like when I came out?
Or like, when we're talking about gender,
I just don't get it, you know,like my ex was non-binary,
so it's like I just don't get it and I'm,
and I'm not kind of willing to understand,
but I'm okay with it.
Um, that kind of like, I'm okay with it,
(13:11):
but um, I just don't wanna see it.
Whereas in the states, you havelike more of an acceptance,
but the opposites are much more extreme.
So like anti-abortion,
anti-gay marriage, that kind of thing.
Um, that's what I experience and like,
and this kind of overall, thiskind of, from some people,
(13:32):
especially in like more spiritualplaces that I see as like,
oh, you're just lacking in something.
There's just a lack of masculineor feminine in your life,
and if you just balance that out,
you wouldn't desire a woman .
So that's been quite interesting to track.
So yeah, on the whole,
I think probably the UK is alittle bit less extreme on,
(13:54):
its like hatred
or pro kind
of sits more in the middlestandard Britain sometimes.
Um, but the la yeah,
but the, the kind of constantlow level homophobia is just,
it's always kind of bubbling around.
Um, yeah, I had a, a realgo viral on Facebook,
um, and it clocked up like200,000 views in a couple
(14:16):
of days, and I just had themost ridiculous messages from
men on there, just likeindoctrinating the youth
and you're trying to thisdisgusting all this stuff.
And they're all based inthe US like, so yeah.
- And so then with thatlow level homophobia,
do you find at times
that you might like shyaway from your identity
(14:38):
that you're kind of like, Ineed to make sure I'm safe?
Or are you able to beauthentic at most times?
- I would say for the mostpart, I'm pretty authentic.
There's the challenge that Ithink a lot of femme presenting,
um, queer people will have, which is like,
(14:58):
to avoid the certaintypes of gaze, um, gaze,
g-a-z-y,
like look more queer thanperhaps maybe I would choose
to on a regular basis,if that makes sense.
Um, and you always know straightaway when you shouldn't be
(15:19):
kissing or holding hands,like it's quite quick
to immediately, youknow, disconnect if, um,
if you see maybe agroup of like young guys
or something like that, becauseyou'll get the kind of like,
oof, you know, you'vejust not had the right
whatever, um, thrown at you.
So, um, yeah.
And I think, yeah, I, I think what I,
(15:41):
I talk about this quite a bitin terms of being queer is,
is always a slightlyheightened sense of, you know,
your nervous system voice hasto be slightly heightened.
You're always looking fordanger, just a tiny bit.
You can never fully relax.
Like, um,
and also one of the harder sides
of things I don't think manypeople talk about is like
(16:02):
being fetish, fetishized.
I cannot say that word at the moment.
Uh, fetishized, I'm a sexcoach, come on, Cherish.
Um, uh, by,
by other people specificallylike male cisgendered men,
het men, um, kind of,
you just get these likeleering looks at off,
you know, at cafe.
(16:22):
And that's quite hard sometimes.
And I'm in it definitelyin a position right now
where I'm like, oh, youknow, this feels a bit, um,
it feels a bit of a challengeto receive at the moment,
but that's just, you know,it just comes and ebbs
and flows.
- Yeah. So then your, you know,
your identity is part of you.
(16:44):
You are, you know, able toshare, you know, who you are.
How does that come into your coaching?
Is there, like, do youever find homophobia there?
- Um, no, I make quite abig thing about the fact
that I am queer and I supportqueer people, um, in coaching.
(17:07):
Um, it is not uncommon for queer people
to experience internalized homophobia.
And I do quite often endup working on that with,
with clients, which is,
which is actually a really nice thing
because as I said, like I'm,you know, it's pretty hard
to take people down to the
depths that you've not been yourself.
And I've definitely had to work
through my own internalized homophobia
and what society has kind of put on us.
(17:28):
Um, you know, so, um,
but yeah, I think for meit's just about like creating
the deepest amount of safety.
Like safety is the absolutecore pillar of my entire,
you know, what I do as mypractice, my coaching practice,
um, and just, um, allowinganything that someone wants
(17:48):
to bring to, you know, to justcome, to come to the surface
and to be worked on.
Um, and I think my journeywith queerness helps
that an awful lot in my lived experience.
But yeah, I often get,people often laugh at me
and say, is there anything that shock you?
And I'm like, no, you know, there's,
there's nothing you canbring that would shock me.
I, you know, and I oftenhave, I, I have clients
(18:11):
who will like, be sitting on something
and I can see them sittingon something for a second
and I'm like, it's okay,
whatever you are sittingon, I can bring it.
You can bring it, it's okay.
And they'll like say what they wanna say
and maybe they've cheated
or maybe it's about, youknow, over watching porn,
porn addiction or,
or thoughts that perhaps they don't
think are super, like, okay.
(18:31):
And they'll like, watch for my approval
or watch to see if I'm gonna get shocked
or like, raise my eyebrows.
And I'm like, great, I'mreally grateful you told me.
Like, let's work through it.And they're like, oh, okay.
And they're like, the immediate relief
that they see you see ontheir face is just amazing.
So, um, yeah, I think, Ithink that's really important.
I think that, you know, asa society and, you know,
and obviously there are somenuances where it's like,
(18:53):
if it's something illegal
or, you know, um, not a, youknow, illegal questionable,
but, you know, if it wassomething to do with children
or something like that,there are obviously nuances
that doesn't, thisdoesn't come into a thing,
but for the most part, youknow, people have got kinks,
different kinks, and theymight mention, you know,
they're really into a,
a mommy daddy kink or something like that.
I'm like, great, like let'swork on it, work, let's work.
(19:15):
You know, let's work ongetting that, you know, met
and that need validatedand that kind of thing.
So, um, yeah, I think that ifthat answers your question,
I went a bit of a tangentthere, but I love a tangent. So
- That is more than, okay.
So you've mentioned a couple times kind
of working on your owninternal like beliefs
and different, you know, phobias.
(19:36):
What has that work been like
and how have you seen yourself transform?
- Yeah. Um, I,
you know, I definitely noticedthat back in the day, not,
but way before I coached, Idefinitely, I know noticed that
(19:59):
I allowed myself to feel intowhat society fed us about, um,
queerness or transgender
and, you know, transgenderexperiences, you know,
back in maybe like the comingout of school, you know,
about 15 years ago.
Um, so oh, limey definitelymore than 15 years ago. Um, .
Um, so yeah.
(20:19):
Uh, and like,
and then realizing having,you know, spent more time,
you know, friends comeout and that kinda thing.
Okay, what does that look like?
What, what's, what's myinternal voice saying right now?
Let's look at the internalvoice. Is that mine?
And I'll do work, and I supportcoaching clients as well
for this is like, youknow, the internal voice.
(20:40):
Where does it come from?
Does it sound, does it feel like yours?
It'll be a process I do on myself.
Does it feel like yours or does it,
is it the voice of somebody else?
Um, sometimes it's the voice of a parent.
Sometimes it's like thevoice of like a news reader,
you know, excuse me, thenwe'll like go through
and if it is mine, I'm like, okay,
so where does that come from?
(21:01):
Like, is that a core belief?
Okay, why does that core belief exist?
And I'm like, question my own belief
system, if that makes sense.
Um, and yeah.
And now, now working with,you know, people with, from
so many different genders, ifthey, you know, if they're cis
or not, um, and supporting them
and being advocates for them.
And now I find myself, youknow, having done all this work
(21:25):
by myself, being a bit of aneducator in lots of spaces
and peers coming to me andbeing like, how do I word this?
And how do I work through this?
And, and being able to be that to the best
of my ability spokesperson for, um,
for people that perhaps they don't feel
that they can open up,
ask questions openlytoo, if that makes sense.
But yeah, just to return backto your question, I think,
(21:46):
yeah, like I said, questioning
that internal voice isn't mine.
Does it belong to me? Um, is it societies?
And if it is mine yeah,why, how did it get there?
Um, and working throughthat and just, and,
and I think one of thebiggest things I talk about
to people is like gettingreally comfortable
with being uncomfortable.
Um, especially around thingslike race or, um, queerness
(22:07):
or anything like that.
It's like, okay, well it'sgonna feel uncomfortable
'cause you're brushing upagainst what you've been,
how you've been brought up or, um,
what society has toldyou growing up. So yeah.
- And so as you've becomeadvocates for more people,
as you've kind of strengthenedyour core beliefs,
have you had your own advocatefor your queer identity?
(22:30):
- Oof.
Um, yes.
I think some a bit, butmaybe less so if I'm honest.
Like, I do find myselfbeing a little bit, um,
a little bit of a lone wolf.
Um, the person in mylife, um, has been out for
so long, um, that, you know, she has
(22:52):
a lot more lived experience.
And so when I'm kind of come to her
and be like, oh, I'm noticing this,
or like, I, I mentioned earlierabout the male gaze, um,
g-a-z-e, I like it being a little
bit confronting and a struggle.
It's like she's in a space ofwhere she just like, is able
to really welcome me into that and, um,
and be like a really hear, really see you.
(23:12):
So that's been really helpful.
But I think, yeah, it's, um,it's super important to, um,
get out and meet more queerpeople because there is a,
and it's something thatI definitely, you know,
work on to the best of my ability.
As I said, I live in aslightly more rural space,
but, um, yeah, it's, it's interesting
because as much as youknow, allyship exists,
(23:35):
there's also a lived experience
that you just can't quiteunderstand if you don't have it.
Um, so yeah, it's always,uh, an interesting space
to move in, but that's a great question.
Probably lesser than I would like,
but I definitely have some people .
- Well, that's good that youhave some people and.
You know, as you know, you'veworked on yourself and,
(23:56):
and come into yourselfthen as kind of like, you,
you have those opportunitiesto realize, like, who do I want
to surround myself with?
So how in a rural area have you been able
to find queer communities?
Do you find yourselfneeding to venture out
of the rural areas?
- Yeah. Um, I think theinteresting piece here is the fact
(24:19):
that I, I do, there's,
there's an incrediblequeer community down here,
but I work with them a lot.
So I work and then I'm in my workspace.
Um, and so I have definitelyfound it difficult to kind
of straddle the line betweenbeing in my work, um,
and being, you know, I dosupport the pride community
down here running a placespace called The Pleasure Zone,
(24:42):
which is like freeintimate support for, um,
18 plus people.
Um, folk and I, um,
they can just come in and askme anything about sex, love,
pleasure, gender, you know, anything.
And, um, so I have found myself,
(25:02):
yeah, looking to kind of findpeople like me, my peers,
it there is a bit more branching out.
I traveled, I went to Londonfor a really big lesbian
night a few months ago,which was really good fun.
And just meeting more people.There's a lot more vibrant
community in London, um,
and Bristol and everything like that.
And I, and I love the sensation
of walking down a street inBristol or London or Manchester,
(25:23):
and it's just like anythinggoes, it's such a nice space.
And I'm really lucky, I livein a university town, um,
where I live, so there's likea lot more, um, diversity,
which is super yummy.
Um, it there're super young,super quirky, queer out,
you know, like lots of, um, yeah,
lots of diversity, which is nice.
So, um, but as an age gap andall of those kind of things.
(25:46):
So I think it's a bit of a mix, really.
Like yeah, finding peoplethrough work, just, you know,
still speaking to friends
and then also a lot of onlinecommunities and, um, yeah.
And there's a big community.
I like, I, I would love to think
that I'll be traveling a bit more, um,
to places like Berlin nextyear or the end of this year
and next year, um, becausethere's so epic sex
(26:08):
and queer communities over there.
So I'd love to like start
to just get my toe in those spaces.
- So then when it comes towork, you know, you, it's a way
for you to also meet peopleto connect with others
who are similar to you.
And you mentionedthat right now you're kind
of like specializing incouples, so you know,
you have a wide array oftopics that you cover.
(26:30):
What do you think people need more of?
- Need more of?
In, in, in coaching?
- Yeah. Like what do you,like as you meet people,
they come to you with different things.
- Yeah. - Like where are youseeing gaps in say like sex
and relationship knowledge?
(26:50):
- Mm. Yeah, yeah.
Um, I think what happensis, is really easy
for communication to die, um,
in a relationship in along-term relationship.
And, and what happens is whencommunication dies, sex dies,
or often sex goes first,then communication dies.
And I truly, trulybelieve that at a center
of every good relationship is great sex.
(27:12):
Um, and I have, my methodologyis based around the four C's,
so it's my four C's methodology,which is consent, clarity,
communication, and connection.
And all of those four thingsare all based around sex,
but they're also based aroundan amazing relationship.
Like what do you know,clarity, what do I want?
You know, getting really clear about
what I want in a relationship,what does it look like?
(27:33):
What do you want? How canI understand what you want?
You know, how can Icommunicate that clearly so
that I'm not projecting,I'm not trying to fix you
with a time or rescueor advise you, you know?
Um, so in terms of whatI'm seeing, it's definitely
that communication breakdown
and then that the, thesex goes first often
and then, you know,connects a lot of people.
(27:55):
Um, forget how deeplyconnecting great sex can be, um,
and how passionate and powerful it feels,
and how the next day youmight be looking at each other
and you're just like, youcan sense how that, you know,
you can sense in a different space.
The connection feels completely different.
Um, and, and sex can feel likea chore a lot of the time,
(28:16):
but I'm kind of on a bitof a, a, um, one man,
although there's definitelya few of us on this mission
to like, get people toremember how incredible gentle,
you know, powerful sex can be.
Um, and yeah, definitely.What else do I see?
Um, yeah, mis mismatchingdesires is quite a big one,
and how to overcome that
(28:36):
and people just forgetting,like having super open,
curious mind, um, aroundrelationships, it's really easy
for us to get shut off.
And what happens is we get shut off
and then we feel resentment,and then there's arguments,
and then it's just thisnever ending spiral.
So that's what people tendto come to me with, um, yeah,
as mismatch of desires,really low communication
and absolutely no sex.
(28:56):
And by the time they leaveme, I feel really lucky
to say they're normally havinggreat sex communication is
the best it's ever been, and you know,
that, that desires back.
So I absolutely love that,you know, part of, um,
yeah, I love that part of what I do.
- And I'm sure it'sdifferent for everybody,
but what is kind of like thelife cycle, like the lifespan
(29:17):
of you working with somebody?
- Um, I tend to workin, um, like six months.
So I do 10, 10 sessions acrossfive or six months basically.
So we meet every two weeks,um, is a great amount of,
you know, space betweensessions, as long as the guests,
the client is, um, is kind ofdedicated to the, you know,
(29:40):
to the coaching container.
Um, so yeah, I can work, Iwork there, you know, couples
between six months
and then if it's like,if they are perhaps like
really struggling, um, we might do, let's,
let's commit to a year together.
And then after that wejust do maintenance.
So, um, you know, I workedwith someone quite recently,
(30:04):
actually for a good eight months,
and now he's just on like everytwo months I just meet him
and, um, he's like, this isgoing on and this is going on.
And we do that. So II, I really like that.
I'm, I'm a big believer in
coaching myself out of business, .
Um, I think there's this kindof energy, um, in like, uh,
in some of the, you know, maybe less, um,
(30:26):
in integrity coaches that
you should keep them on forever and ever.
I coach these on forever and ever
and I'd like, I wanna coachpeople out of needing me.
I wanna coach, you know, I want
to have people be like
relationship's the best it's ever been.
And now, you know, we, you know, oh, this,
this thing caught us this week.
Can we just jump on fora call? Yeah, no worries.
Jump on for a couple of hours with me
(30:47):
and we just dive intoit, if that makes sense.
Um, so yeah, to answer yourquestion again, probably, uh,
working blocks of 10.
Um, first, first block is 10if people want to do that,
but sometimes they wannacome and do a couple
and see how it feels, um,
and then yeah, six monthsto 12 months depending on
where they're at, and thenmaintenance after that.
- Right. I think it'sinteresting to hear, you know,
(31:09):
the different philosophies, like your goal
is they shouldn't need me.
Like, let's get to that point.
Um, I think there's sometimes this fear of
if I start talking tosomeone about whatever it may
be, um.- Yeah.
- A coach or a therapist, like,I'm gonna be stuck with 'em
for the rest of my life because like,
how are things going to change?
(31:31):
- Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Um, and, and also like spaceto change your mind, right?
Like, I have a, like an hourlong session with people free
of charge always just togive them like insights into
what I'm seeing in their relationship
and how I think it couldprogress and how it could work.
Um, and if it's not rightfit for either of us,
(31:51):
then we just, we just say no,it's not gonna be a right fit.
You know, there's been timeswhere I have accepted coaching
clients, it's not feltright and it's not quite,
not quite fit, it's notbeen quite a right fit,
and we've like, it's takena little bit more time
to maybe get into the
sessions or whatever, and then it's fine.
But it, you know, I thinkit's super important that,
you know, that everyonefeels like, oh my god, yeah.
(32:13):
Because I want people tofeel like they're coming
and sitting on my sofa onmy couch and, you know,
and having a cup of teaand, um, or a coffee.
I guess I'm very British sometimes, um,
and having a cup of tea andjust being like, Hey, come
and tell me, like, let'swork on this together.
So yeah, I'm, I'm reallypassionate about, um,
it being a great fit for everyone
(32:34):
and yeah, coaching myselfout of business, that's,
that's me being integrity, you know.
- Yes. Now your little quipright there about, you know,
sometimes being too British.
What is it like to connect
with people from different cultures
and coach with them knowing that
their personal experiences may be
wildly different from yours?
(32:57):
- I work really hard to,
I'll always do my homework beforehand.
Um, I'm really blessed
that I've got friendsin North America in lots
of different places in North America.
So like sometimes in the past they've
like called me out for things.
They're like, we wouldjust never say that.
I'm like, okay, that helps. Sothat's really helpful to have
that outside of a coaching container.
Like for instance, someoneI would never say are,
(33:19):
we fell out and I'm like, in Britain, like
to have an argument wouldbe like, are we fell out?
Um, but it's a really British term.
Um, or like, um, to fancy someone,
like in Britain we would say,I fancy the pants off you
and in North America,like, just not there.
Like what? That doesn't even make sense.
So that's been reallyhelpful to have friends,
(33:41):
um, and ask questions.
But also like my coachingclients in other parts of Europe
where there is a bit more ofa cultural divide, um, uh,
yeah, I'll do a lot of my own homework
and I'll also, um, to make sureI'll speak to peers as well
who are based in those cities
or countries to make surethat I'm not missing anything.
And then I have regular supervision.
(34:02):
So I have supervision from, um,
my supervisor's been in thebusiness for, uh, she's 70,
so she's been in the businessfor a really long time.
She's a therapist
and, um, just like really checking in
with certain things that I'm doing.
Does this feel right?Does this feel right?
She's like, yeah, well lookat this. Well look at this.
Here's some, you know, some stuff to do.
But yeah, it's super importantfor me, like the absolute
(34:25):
core is safety in terms of my business,
but like integrity, mebeing in integrity, um,
is super important to me
and that's something that Iwork on really, really hard.
- And so how do you, you know, connect?
Like you have the supervisor, you know,
you, you know, peers.
How does that connection work?
- Um, my coaching container,my qualification that I got,
(34:48):
we are all on an alumnigroup, which is great.
It's a really busy group.
Um, and there's so manyquestions on there.
You could type in anythingto do with coaching
and there'd be someone and lots
of different people's perspectives
and I'm always looking
on there, which is really, really helpful.
And yeah, I, I connect
with my supervisor on, on a phone call.
We have about a 90 minutechat every few weeks, um,
(35:11):
and I take a case study, I take one
of the people I'm workingwith, one of my clients,
and we kind of run througheverything they've been
experiencing and, and,and everything like that.
And, and, um, and,
and how I've done my methodology,how I've been working
through how, what I've offeredthem, the different practices
and she'll give mepointers and, and responses
(35:31):
and we'll work through, um, we'll work
through it in that way.
So yeah, that's tends to be how I connect,
but also, um, doing CPD, so, um,
making sure that I'mdoing, taking short courses
to make sure that my coachingis like absolutely like
needle point, what would you call it?
Like crystal clear on the nose.
(35:52):
That's super important tome as well. So that helps.
Um, and eventually I'd really like
to get a master's intrauma, so, um, that's kind
of on the horizon at some point as well, .
- And do you find in your coaching
that trauma comes up very often?
- Yeah, every session.Yeah. I'd say every session.
Maybe not every session, butlike, it's super important
(36:15):
to be really sensitive andreally, really empathetic
to someone's experience.
I think that, um, we livein a world where very few
of us are walking aroundbeing like, I'm fine.
Childhood was fine,everything's brilliant.
Like, um,
and I think that that's whypeople come to me is like,
they have noticed somepatterns in their relationship
that aren't necessarily feeling great,
(36:37):
and then suddenly like,
actually there'ssomething bigger going on.
And often what happens iswhen some people are in a
relationship and theycreate tons of safety,
that's when the body startsto allow us to process trauma.
Um, and what it will unfortunatelylook like is often kind
of projected onto thepartner, but it's often not.
(36:59):
It's just the body finallyfeels safe enough, um,
to like look at, you know, something
traumatic happened in childhoodor as a young al adult,
and then the body's like, right, let's go.
Um, and it can be incredibly difficult
to receive that as a partner.
It's like, I haven't doneanything, nothing's changed,
but suddenly you are angry at me.
Or, you know, and that's
what we end up working through a lot.
(37:19):
So yeah, I would say every,maybe not every session,
but definitely everyclient base I have, um,
we're processing some kind of trauma,
but it's not always like,it's also super important
to remember to be really gentle with it.
So it's not always like, right.
I think some people think aboutprocessing trauma as like,
dive in, let's go.
Um, but it's not, it's about just really
(37:39):
holding that space gently.
Like first and foremost, can we find
acceptance for that part of us?
Can we, can we meet thatpart of us with love
and kindness for whatever happened?
You know, if it smalltrauma with a capital T
or trauma with a lowercase t.
- And you mentioned early onhow, you know, trauma has sort
of played into some of whyyou got into what you're into
(38:00):
and that, you know, your past is not
necessarily sunshine and roses.
Are you willing to dive ina little bit on some of what
that past was like for you?
- Yeah. Um, yeah.
I, my dad left when I was 18 months old
and I didn't have a relationshipwith him, which meant
that I think that's some ofthe reason that I sought out
(38:22):
male relationships, if I'm honest.
Um, I think I wasprobably, um, seeking, um,
a father figure in some kind
of subconscious way in lots of ways.
I definitely process alot of that when therapy.
Um, and, um, yeah,
I'm an only child and, um, wegrew up with, you know, like
(38:45):
it wasn't super abundant.
It wasn't bad, but it wasn'tsuper abundant, which meant
that, you know, I wasworking early, you know,
I started working when I was14, worked really, really hard.
I was working a full-time job
and doing school at the same time, um,
which was definitely my choice.
It wasn't through like,um, needs must as it were.
But, um, yeah, I've worked, um, a lot
and then I, I had a coupleof really not great partners.
(39:08):
Um, I've had, um, some prettyabusive partners to be fair.
And I really worked through that and,
and processed the kind oflike unraveling of that
I've experienced, um,significant SA in my life, um,
through the hands of partners and friends.
Um, and,
and I also had a stalkerat one point in my life, so
that was super fun.
(39:29):
Um, so he was an ex-partner, so, um, yeah,
definitely have processed all of that.
And just coming to terms with, um,
and also like, yeah, coming to terms
with the fact I was livinga lie a lot of my life
and yeah, like in these he relationships
where I thought it was like Iwas gonna live this societal
dream of like, you know,2.4 kids in a wedding ring
(39:50):
and realizing that I neveractually wanted that.
Um, and it was actually all a lie.
Um, so that's also like, that, that's one
of the ones I'm process, you know,
pro processing in, in lots of ways.
Um, or like sitting with
and realizing, I guess I thinkI've definitely processed it
now, but, um, that's definitelybeen part of the journey.
And yeah, there's someother bits thrown in there,
(40:10):
but I think like sometimesit's really, really great
to just be like, these things happened
and, you know, I'm incredibly,incredibly grateful
and I thank that part of me
and the, you know, the part of me that
got through those things.
Um, and,
and also I think it'swhat's led me to be a kind
of well-rounded human nowwho's pretty much capable
of taking on anything, I reckon.
(40:31):
I don't think there's a lotthat universe could throw me
these days that I couldn't cope with.
- Yes. Well, I appreciate, you know,
you sharing some of that information.
Um,
but it sounds like you'veworked through a lot of things,
which means.- Yeah.
- You know, which, which leadsyou to be able to say like,
yes, this happened to me,this is part of my past.
Um,
because, you know, you are queer,
(40:54):
you exclusively date women,uh, you are, femme presenting,
you know, someone might makean assumption like Cherish has
sworn off all men.
Um, so what is kind of your interaction
with men these days ona being friends, being,
(41:14):
you know, really good friends?
Where where does that fallwith everything that's happened
with you, your identity, and your past?
- Oh, this is a great question. Amazing.
Um, I think
that I've got someincredible male friends.
Two of my best friends inthe entire universe are men.
(41:34):
Um, completely platonic, neverbeen anything else, like, um,
have the most incredible manin my life, Ben, who, um,
who is just my rock.
Um, he is without a doubt,
the closest thing I've got to a dad.
He's my, like, I did this,or what am I gonna do?
Or I, you know, I'm, howam I gonna do my business?
(41:55):
And, um, I helped, um, hewrote an incredible book, um,
about sex for boys, um,for like, you know, 15,
16-year-old boys and up,um, which I was really,
really blessed to have supported on.
So he's like, you know,he's my, he's just perfect.
He's wonderful, you know,
and so I'm reallygrateful to have that kind
(42:15):
of role model when I've hadsome, like, not very nice
to have things happenwith men in the past.
Um, and he's always thefirst one to be like,
that's absolutely unacceptable.
You know, all of that kind of stuff.
Um, and, um,
I definitely think I'vebecome a lot more aware
of this sense of ownershipthat lots of men have,
(42:37):
think they have over women,um, this kind of, um,
uh, like feeling like
anyone's fair game.
Um, and whereas I usedto be a bit blind to it,
I'm a lot more aware of it now.
Um, and so I think that perhaps my, um,
(43:00):
yeah, I think that perhaps I'mjust a bit more hyper aware,
uh, and that's been partof my process is just like,
you know, what, how do I wannadress today, for instance,
to create safety in my bodyand that kind of thing.
And then, and then having, youknow, having some like, um,
having an experience of like,shouldn't, shouldn't be like
that, and how can I help that?
(43:20):
And, and, and actually in,in lots of ways, some of the,
you know, some of the reasonI do my job is to help men to,
um, come to fullunderstanding of, you know,
how society has shaped them
and how it's super importantto, um, support them
to understand what,you know, what it means
to be a man in, in today's society.
(43:40):
So, you know, um, for, youknow, in fact, I don't know,
right now 30% of my clientsare cisgendered, you know, men.
Um, uh, I wouldn't necessarilyknow if they'd all identify
as heterosexual, but, um, yeah, that's,
and I love that part ofstuff, so that really helps me
to make sure that I'm not beingbiased in any way since I've
(44:02):
come out, because I thinkit's a really common thing
for people to be super biased, um,
after they've maybe nothad some se, you know,
some great experiences,
but I have worked really hard to make sure
that there isn't much biasapart from Yeah, like I said,
when I'm out and about noticing
that there's like a slightobject objectification
that perhaps I wasn't awareof as much when I was younger.
- Good. I feel like that's,you know, you never know, uh,
(44:25):
even what you just saidthere with, you know,
the bias that can come through.
So it's, it's good to hear that you're,
you're in a good place with all of that.
- Mm-Hmm. Yeah.- Now,
before I start to wrap things up,
is there anything elseyou would like to share
with the listeners today?
- No, not at all. Um, justknow that if you're not having
(44:46):
sex that blows your mind,it is absolutely possible.
Um, and um, I know thatsometimes when I say that,
it can feel really distant to some people,
but it absolutely is possible.
And, um, you are absolutelyworthy of having beautiful,
deep rich intimacy in yourpartnership and outside of it.
- Great. Now, at theend of all my episodes,
(45:08):
I do ask my guests a random question.
So my question for you today is
what seasons do you look forward to?
- Ooh, well, I'm British, sowe don't have as many seasons
as I feel like you have in North America.
Um, but I always lookforward to summer in the UK
because we get some really nice,
uh, we get the best weather.
(45:29):
I'm a bit of a fan of Christmas, um,
but my birthday's on the 5th of January,
so I'm always like waitingto get Christmas over with
so I can get to my birthday.
Um, and I am super witchy, soI absolutely love Halloween.
(45:49):
- All right. That bringsthis episode to a close.
So if you would like toconnect with Cherish,
her website will be in the description
along with her Instagram.
There will also be a direct link
to her relationship First aid kit,
if you wanna check that out.
It's also on her website,
but you can find thatdirectly in the description.
If you would like toconnect with our podcast.
Our website is also in the description.
(46:10):
It brings you to all of ourpast episodes, resources,
and social media links from guests
along with our social media.
We are on Instagram,Facebook, and LinkedIn.
So if you wanna go follow those pages,
that support is always appreciated.
There's also a link to supportthe podcast monetarily.
That support is always appreciated,
and my email is in thedescription if you would like
to reach out for anything,
(46:31):
including being a guest onthe show to share your story.
So thank you so muchCherish for spending time
with me today, and to mylisteners for taking the time out
of your day to hear a new story.
Until next time, bye.
- Thank you so much. Bye.
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