Best Selling Author Moshe Gersht: From Punk Rocker to a Spiritual Author

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey everybody, I'm Kimberly Dobbs.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
And I'm Jacob Miller.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
And we'd like to welcome you to another episode
of Intuitive Choices.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Kim and I are mental health therapists working in
Philadelphia.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Each week, we invite a guest to speak about how their
own intuitive choices have ledthem to live a more meaningful
life.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
We hope that this conversation encourages you to
make meaningful choices in yourown life.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Alright, off we go.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Let's do it.
I cannot describe how excited Iam to have one of my dearest
mentors friends I don't reallyknow how to describe our
relationship fully Just someone.
I'm so grateful to have my life, Moshe Gerst, here to talk with
us on Intuitive Choices.

(00:45):
I had the absolute pleasure ofmeeting Moshe when I first moved
to Israel in, I guess, 2018.
I think that sounds about right, and Moshe was so influential
in really teaching me what itmeant to be joyful and in my own
battles with anxiety,depression, etc.
Like so many of us have, RabbiGerst kind of just gave me a

(01:08):
sense of like it's good to feelokay, In a profound way, that I
believed, which was a task Sincethen.
You know, being able to be inMoshe Gerst's home, meet his
family and continue arelationship with him.
Since I left Israel, I've hadthe pleasure of reading his book

(01:28):
.
It's all the same to me.
Which I like to describe is thesensation that you get after
hugging a loved one, which Ihope is not too hyperbolic a
statement, and I've recently hadthe pleasure of reading the
sample chapter introduction tohis newest book, the Three
Conditions.
Rabbi Gerst knows how toharmonize a tremendous amount of

(01:52):
ancient wisdom, spiritualwisdom, and make it more
relevant than anything we couldimagine.
So, without further ado, it ismy absolute pleasure to welcome
Moshe Gerst to Intuitive Choices.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Hey Moshe.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Hi Kim, hi Jacob, wow , what an introduction.
You are invited to come with meeverywhere.
Take me, let me tell yousomething.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
My eyes welled up with tears hearing you and, like
you know, just like feelingyour energy as you were talking
about Moshe.
It was so beautiful.
I just have to say that WelcomeMoshe.
This is a huge.
This feels like such a gift.
Well, the podcast itself feelslike a gift and just the

(02:34):
opportunity to have thisconversation with you is such a
gift.
I really just want to jump inand say and just ask you know
you?
You are on a spiritual journey.
We all are, you know, and yoursstarted with you.
I'm not even going to say withyou leaving a rock band, because
I would even, I would even saychallenge you to say, like it

(02:57):
started with you joining yourrock band.
You know we're starting it inthe first place.
I just want you to just startthere.
Like, can you tell us from thebeginning?

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, I appreciate that, kim.
I think a lot of people thinkthat the journey started leaving
the band, but the truth is Iwas born into a really open
minded, open hearted home, so Ihad a lot growing up.
I feel very blessed to havebeen raised with parents who
were really understanding andwere on their own journey.

(03:29):
So I was raised in a home of ajourney and joining the band.
I was probably 13 years oldwhen the band started.
I was.
I was able to go and pursue thatdream in high school and try to
get signed to a record labeland tour with my favorite
artists, and all of that becauseI was raised in a home that

(03:50):
said you know, you're here on amission and listen to your
calling.
So calling was was very much soa part of, like the home
ambiance and if there wassomething strong that you felt,
be it, call it intuition andinner knowing, a sense of
direction.
It was strongly encouraged, andso the band was just as much a
part of the journey as much asleaving it was after seven years

(04:14):
.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Moshe, I hope you don't mind but and I know like
not to name drop artists, toname drop artists, but just to
give a context for our listeners, a little bit like what type of
bands were you touring withopening for what genre were you
involved in?

Speaker 3 (04:29):
I mean, this was like a pop punk band.
So think panic at the disco, aBlink 182 Green Day ball out boy
like so emo pop punk style.
And we were opening up for theplain white teas and my chemical
romance and Papa Roach andstory of the year and did a

(04:49):
bunch of shows with the WarpTour.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
It's so, it's so.
I was listening to actuallysome of your music yesterday in
preparation for the interview,because I don't know if you know
, but it's on Spotify and afterlistening to your album I had
Green Day stuck in my head.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Green Day came to me to listen to your music also.
Oh my God, yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
And just I think that's just a testament to like.
Sometimes you hear music andand it just sounds like a song
that existed in that era, notlike something like oh, like a
couple kids were puttingtogether.
It's like such I mean, clearlyyou were signed to record label
such professional level musicthat it's a younger me would
have listened to constantly.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
Well, I appreciate that.
Yeah, that was probably thenumber one vocal comp I got was
to Billy Jorm from from GreenDay.
So yeah, if it, if it stillsounds that way, then the music,
the music, still hitting.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
So let me ask you this you joined a band, but, but
larger than that is obviouslythe gravitational pull toward
creating me, maybe creatingmusic or, you know, singing
music.
How did you know you evenwanted to create music like?
What was that process like foryou?
Because you were only 13.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, that's a great question and one that I haven't
gotten on any other podcaststhat been on.
So thank you, kim, I appreciatethat.
Welcome.
Thank you.
There were probably twoelements to it when I think
about it.
One of them was I was probably10 or 11.
The first time I sat down withmy best friend, adam, who played
for me an album of a bandcalled Weezer.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
And Buddy Holly and.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Buddy Holly and I sat there.
I heard Buddy Holly and it gotto the solo and when, when it
hit that high note, I literallyfelt in my body this is what I'm
doing.
That was it.
That was the beginning and theend of the conversation.
I knew right then that that'swhat I was doing going forward.
I didn't own a guitar yet Ididn't play music yet, oh my

(06:52):
goodness.
I did.
I did.
We did have a piano in the home.
I played some classical piano,for I probably started at five
or six and I was.
I played until about 12.
But after hearing that it waslike I went straight home.
I was like you know, dad, Ineed a guitar.
He's like why you don't playguitar.
I need a guitar like now.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
And it wasn't.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
I didn't get it now, but over over the next year or
two.
It was working towards gettinga guitar, starting the process
of getting into it.
It was one of those likeabsolute, clear, knowing this is
what I have to do.
It wasn't.
It didn't even feel like achoice.
It was.
This is part of who I am.
And again being in a home whereyou're encouraged to listen to

(07:36):
that piece it was.
It was encouraged and I walkedforward and fell in love with
the guitar again.
The guitar wasn't even.
It wasn't even about the music,it was I wanted to sing.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, that's what I keep feeling about you, yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
Yeah, I, just I knew that it was something I wanted
to share.
My voice wanted to go and sharewhatever message it was.
It was melody and it was ideasand it was rock music like like
really punchy fun upbeat.
You know, get off, get off thefloor and jump, kind of music

(08:13):
that I wanted to share, but it'salmost a no, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
And it's almost like that moment of hearing that note
right, and you're hearing itand it's you're experiencing
something through your wholebody, through your whole being
and and, and then it to be soyoung, like 10 or 11.
And I don't want to speak foryou, so it's more of like this,

(08:39):
like a question form is astatement, but I am just
wondering, was it this like I?
It wasn't like I want fame andfortune, I want to be like
weezer.
It was like this largerexperience of like I want to.
I want to feel like this andexperience this, that I'm

(08:59):
feeling as you were experiencingthat song.
Do you know?
Do you know what I'm trying toask?

Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah.
I do and I would.
I would frame it in thefollowing Following way it
wasn't about doing what they did.
It wasn't about doing it all.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
It was more like I am yes, I am this, and I was
looking for whatever that was toreflect.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Kim Kim's dog is a.
I think everyone who reads it'sall the same to me has Some
really like the one-liners thatcome out of it and and to me
it's like I Want what's that?
Give me a second.
I want us to phrase it the wayyou phrase it, but it's no.
Outcomes are yours and alloutcomes are good.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and and that just is likeI Just open up, when I in, when

(09:49):
I internalize that I allowmyself to to know that's true, I
just I completely relax.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Really to piggyback on what you were saying about
the, the having faith in theprocess.
One of the things that I say tomy clients all the time is the
phrase faith over fear, almostlike as a mantra, because it
really is this idea that likeYou're being carried, like it'll

(10:17):
be everything.
It'll be, everything will beokay, but you suspending those
expectations of whatever that Ilove how you said.
Like when you're entrenched inthis Idea of whatever that
outcome is supposed to be, younumber one.
You're not present and numbertwo it.
It doesn't allow for theopenness of whatever is to come.

(10:38):
You know, and I love theone-liners too- I was telling
Jacob yesterday that when I waslistening to your book that
there's a line that you did,that you wrote where you said
this isn't happening for you,this is happening, this isn't
happening to you, this ishappening for you.
And I said, I said to Jacob Igo.

(11:00):
It was so profound to to knowthat you wrote that because in
2015, as I was really in thethroes of like losing my
eyesight, you know, I had just Ihad to give up my guide dog
that I'd only had for about ayear and that was gonna present

(11:20):
its own challenges of likenavigating the city with a white
cane, you know those kinds ofthings.
And I was sitting on myself.
It was 11 o'clock at night andI was, I was crying and all of a
sudden, I had this I can't evencall it a thought because I say
to people it didn't, it justdidn't even come from me.

(11:43):
It said this is happening foryou and not to you, and it was
like I remember my kids weresleeping, right, just put them
down.
And I just was like, oh Okay,like I don't know what that was,
it's not even.
It wasn't like a voice, it wasjust, again, this like this.
I don't know how to explain it.
You do a great job in your book, so I highly recommend our

(12:05):
audience read that.
But yeah, so it was just somany powerful things, so many
powerful takeaways from.
I can't wait for you for thenext book.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
You know it's funny.
I remember exactly where I waswhen I got.
I got that that was a download,that sentence.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, me too.
Yeah, that's a great way to putit.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
I was.
It was actually probably anevent that Jacob might have been
at.
There was.
We used to have a large eventat my home every Thursday night,
and sometimes it could be aslittle as 10 people, but
sometimes the best other othergroups join and we could have,
you know, 50, 60, 70 people inthe room at any given moment.

(12:53):
Very powerful, lots of energy,beauty, everyone with their own
Angle on how to appreciate lifeand the divine experience.
And there was one Thursday whenI had an entire Set up of what
I wanted to share.
And for one reason or another,it became irrelevant, like I had

(13:17):
to rewrite my entire Whateverit is that I was gonna give over
that evening, and and and.
Then I started getting phonecalls and my wife was asking for
certain things and my kids weretalking to me.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
That's like one after another.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
I couldn't get to Rewriting and putting together
what I wanted to share thatevening.
And then it was about 10 minutesbefore Anyone was going to show
up and I knew that that nightit was gonna be 50, 60, 70
people walking into my door andI had nothing to say and and I
sat down and did a very simplebasic meditation and just

(13:55):
cleared my mind and cleared myheart and Sat in that space and
right before I kind of walked upTo you know, take care of last
minute pieces that knowing camethrough.
What these words just showed upno outcomes are yours, all
outcomes are good.
And that itself became theanchor for everything I spoke

(14:19):
about that evening.
But beyond that, became theanchor for so much more of my
own personal journey andspiritual practice.
I'm like, right, that was, thatwas the point.
The point is you can't nap outEvery bit and piece of the end.
You can have a vision and aplan and a direction and you
walk in that direction, but youkeep an open mind and an open

(14:41):
heart because you are aco-creator in this universe.
It's not all about you, it'snot just about you, but you are
part of something so much biggerand when you open yourself to
that, that the process itself isthe joy and that's actually the
goal.
That's what we're doing here.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Cultivating joy through the process.
Yeah.
Okay where did we leave offwith so we?

Speaker 2 (15:06):
did leave off, with Rabbi Gersh talking about, like
the, becoming inspired to pursueSinging, singing, and we can
either go back there or what I'mthinking is maybe just for, if
you'd like, rabbi Gersh, for,like the remainder time, just to
do the three conditions now,and then, when we hop back on,
we can do more of your personalStories.

(15:27):
That's on our right, kim.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, yeah, is that okay?
It's, is that okay with you?

Speaker 3 (15:32):
I'm following you, guys.
This is for you.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
You know, Let me do.
Can we do a time check?
Yeah, so it's just, it's 1255and then Moshe, you have to hop
off one.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
I probably have safely around 20 minutes from
now.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Okay, let me think for one second.
Okay, okay, I Think that.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Face the band?
Yeah, I, because I just said itin my head and I got the chills
.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
So like yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Read my mind.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yep.
Okay so so, moshe, where did wewere?
The last thing we were speakingabout was, if you just want to
pick up, perhaps from Well, hewas.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
He was talking about how it was more of a calling to
become to sing and all of that.
And then I wanted to ask aquestion about you.
Know you?
You got a guitar.
You did you start the bandyourself?

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, so you know it's funny.
The name of the band was intheory Because before I changed
my name to Moshe, which I meanit's a birth name, but I always
went by Theo.
Theo is my name before I cameto Israel.
Happens to be that, like France, in Israel there's no th sound,
so there's no th, there's no th, so I had to go with a

(17:06):
different name.
So I switched it pretty earlyon, when I had made my move to
Israel.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
But when I was.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
Theo that that was the reason why I called the band
in theory, because I wanted myname in there, because it was
really a solo project for thefirst year was I wanted a band
but I didn't have one.
I Went into a studio, recordeda number of songs myself and
then I found other people tokind of come together.
We, we joined as a bandeventually and then we spent the

(17:36):
next six and a half yearsReally working towards trying to
reach as many people aspossible.
I think we pretty, we did apretty good job during that
process.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah, but even like you said, you created the name
and then you're like, yeah, andI just went to a studio and just
recorded a bunch of songs andI'm just like, but even that it
takes Something.
Yeah, no, you're right, youknow.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
I haven't thought about it in this way in so long,
but you're absolutely right.
It really all comes back tothat same space of knowing.
As soon as we got into a roomand I mean even down to the
songwriting process, I am very,very much so Would get into a
creative space, sit there, playthrough chords and then the

(18:22):
melodies would come through, andno second guessing, just
allowing the melodies to comethrough and then allowing the
lyrics to come through.
So much of the right word isallowing, it's keep stepping
into a space and allow theprocess to happen and Then, only
after so much of the groundwork was laid, come back and

(18:44):
think through methodically howto then adjust and make
something Better than what itwas the initial download.
And then it was just like okay,so how do we put this into?
At the time it was CDs.
How do we make a CD?
and go and just finding a A arecording studio.

(19:06):
I'm from LA, so there'srecording studios on every
corner.
It's like you know manyrecording studios is Starbucks.
Everywhere you go, there's likea recording studio.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
So you can look back now, right, and you and you can
identify that that was yourprocess, right, like I just
allowed it to flow, did.
Can you say that at that ageyou Knew that that was what was
happening?
Were you as aware that that waslike I'm in a flow I'm having,

(19:37):
I'm having these intuitivedownloads, I'm do you know what
I'm saying?
Like, how much of that were youaware of, as it was happening,
to help continue to cultivate it?

Speaker 3 (19:47):
sure I was less.
I Think I was less aware thatthese were intuitive downloads.
I think at the time I was moreaware that I was being guided
and I really was aware that,like I mentioned earlier, that's
how it was raised that there isdirect guidance and Direction
in our lives if we keep our eyesand ears open to what's

(20:09):
happening.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
When I was 13 the art .

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Our first major gig was at a venue called the
whiskey a go-go which in LosAngeles on the sunset trip.
That's a.
That's a nice venue everybodywho's anybody has played there,
from the Beatles to Lincoln Park, and Everyone in between you
start there right start.
So the story behind that is I.

(20:34):
We just went, we literallyopened up.
If I say the yellow pages, mostpeople don't even know what I'm
talking about if they're not 35, right?
Yeah, that's, true, we sat andwe picked up.
They used to have phone booksBefore.
Google fanbox yeah, and we satand we opened up a phone book
and we looked up the whiskey ago-go, which was a huge club in

(20:55):
on the sunset strip got thenumber call.
I vividly remember sitting atmy friend Yona's house and
calling up the venue.
I'm saying hi, my name is Theo.
I'm with the band at the time.
We were called global warningand Not with an M, with an N,
yeah, yeah, and saying hey, thisis you know from the warning,

(21:18):
just want to you know, see ifyou'd be open to an event
sometime in the next couplemonths and they responded saying
oh Wow, we love you guys.
You guys are great, comewhenever you want, like when's a
good date in August.
And it would immediately hit methat they thought we were
somebody else.
So I said how's the 16th, orsomething like that and I'm a 13

(21:44):
year old kid and they saidthat's perfect, okay, well, you
know, we'll be in touch, we'llsend over the tickets.
You know, keep us posted.
Blah, blah, blah and I showedup at the venue.
We get you know, they gave uslike I don't know how many
tickets that we could, you know,presale, whatever it was and we
showed up that night and we hadsold 300 tickets for the first
night.
Again, we were a bunch of highschool kids.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
We sold yeah, tickets to everyone we knew in.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
you know every school we could get to, and after the
event, the people who booked uscame over and said look, we
realized you're not the sameband that we thought you were,
but you sell three times as manytickets, so you guys can come
back whenever you want.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Oh, my goodness, and once we had an in there, so then
it became an in everywhere.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
So we started yeah, we're in, yeah, so we started
playing a bunch of differentvenues and eventually we got an
agent and you know that's thiskind of history in that regard.
But again, it's that same piecethat we spoke about earlier
which is something in some wecould have called a hundred
clubs in LA, but somethinginside said we got a couple
whiskey.
Why I don't know.
But the guidance was that'swhat we have to call.

(22:53):
And we listen.
And so we sat there and makethe phone call and we get this
incredible Synchronistic.
You know, chance, possibilitythat they think or someone else
and that allows us in the door,and you continue to.
You know, follow the lead,bamosha.
You know it's.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Anyone starting a band is like one day will get to
the whiskey and even maybesomeone would have the
Inclinations like I'm gonna evengive them a call and then maybe
talk themselves out of it.
Like I'm trying to think oflike how much money we're gonna
spend on the melting m 테.
You know, I didn't apply.
I only applied to two collegesbecause I didn't think I was

(23:32):
going to get in anywhere, whichwas, in retrospect, ridiculous,
and that was me as a like a 17year old, 18 year old, and I,
and like I had such a strong offswitch You're, are you
crediting your, your parents inthe environment itself?
Is giving you that reallypowerful on switch or does it
come from somewhere else?

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yes and yes, I do think, without just to answer
the second half of that of thesomewhere else, I do think it
comes from somewhere else.
Also, I think that there iscertainly, whether you call it
your soul, or divine guidance,or God that's, I find it to be
without question.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
And.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
I think if you ask most people who've done great
things in this world, they'llrespond with some level of you
know, a deeper knowing orguidance or something in that
sort.
But I, I, I as wherever.
I?
Can I tell people I was solucky to be raised in a home

(24:33):
that said listen and go for it.
Listen and go for it.
And you know I take no creditfor that.
That was my upbringing and myparents really did give me the
ears to hear it.
What, what was being said?
They didn't give me, that'scoming from somewhere else, but
the fact that I was payingattention to that, that's.

(24:54):
That's a good way to say it.
I'm so.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
I'm so glad that, jacob, you brought that up and
I'm so glad to hear you say that, moshe, because one of the
things that I consistentlydiscuss with clients is you know
, when, what happens when theyare, you know, are raised and
they they don't have any kind ofencouragement or messaging, or

(25:18):
rather, they might even havemessaging that conflicts with
their own internal guidance orexcerpt whatever it is that and
and how that then might, youknow, cause a person to to have
more doubt about whether or notsomething will work out or or

(25:39):
not.
You know that it is.
It is a big piece to to growingup is having, you know, an
environment that allows for theopportunity for you to be able
to see it.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
Absolutely, and that's why so much of the work
that I do with individuals andwith groups are really working
on that reprogramming, becausewhen the way we start our life
doesn't have to be the way weend our life, doesn't have to be
the way we live our life, butwe're all given a certain set of
circumstances, of beliefs andparadigms that were handed down

(26:15):
by our parents, by our societiesby our friends.
You know, everything makes adifference the city you were
born in, the time in which youwere born, the country that
you're in the social network youfind yourself with and that has
such a deep and profound impactin your psyche as a child and
then as you start to grow up.

(26:36):
If you want to expand, grow,change.
So the opportunity is there.
But even the ability to see itas an opportunity is a gift.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
So so many people I speak with it's.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
that itself is a stretch, like, really I, can I
actually change the way I lookat myself?
Can I actually change the wayor expand the way that I look at
life and the way that thingsunfold Am?

Speaker 2 (27:06):
I even allowed to do that Is.
Am I worthy of doing that?
Is it?

Speaker 3 (27:09):
possible and the, the ideas that were given those,
those certainly set the, I wouldsay, like the baseline of
wherever you are coming in tothe game of personal growth,
your spiritual growth.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah, circling back to creating the band, being in
the band, and then there I hadimagined there was, you know, a
circumstances, a circumstance ora combination of circumstances
that started to present itselfthat led you or guided you away

(27:49):
from Okay.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Do you mind if?
I ask another question first.
Is that all right?
Yeah, Thanks for that.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
Yeah of course.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
So, moshe, if you could please just like let me
know about some of like of thepeak moments of being in the
band in which you were like I'mreally doing it and I completely
love this.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
Great question.
Wow, I'll do as many podcastsas you guys want.
I mean, this is just.
You guys are so good Um.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Pete, you can come back every week.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Jacob.
Dude, that is the best I haveto tell you.
I'm so thankful that you, thatyou asked that question first.
Okay, sorry, I just had to saythat I'm grateful to Jacob for
doing that.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Okay, okay, peak, peak moments, I would say there
are many.
One stands out is the day thatwe signed our record deal, all
of us standing in this room withthe CEO, vincent Bittetti and
the president.
Barry Fosman.
A blessed memory, he has to say, and standing there and having

(28:52):
this very almost out of bodyexperience I'm signing a record
deal right now, like that'shappening, and I remember that.
So who did?
you sign with we signed with acompany called Shelter from the
Storm Records in Indian LA.
We had distribution through acompany called ADA, which is a
subsidiary Warner Brothers, andso our album was in every Target

(29:13):
and Best Buy and Tower Records.
If anybody remembers TowerRecords, Wow.
And so that moment of just beingthere, we did it, we signed the
deal.
That was huge Again when wewere opening up for some of
these big bands Plain WhiteTeens and Papa Roach and Story

(29:33):
of the Year playing with themwas one thing, but speaking with
them and hanging out with thembefore the concerts and just
talking to them about theexperience and the journey these
are the people we grew uplistening to and we're now doing
this.
And then when Tom, the singer ofPlain White Teens, when we
first met he invited me to singwith him on stage during our set

(29:56):
together and I just rememberthinking.
I was listening to your albumlike an hour before.
You're now asking me to singthat same song with you on stage
.
And then getting up there anddoing the refrain with him was
yeah it's mind-blowing.
Couldn't believe this wasactually happening Really

(30:16):
amazing.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
It's both what you're going for and surreal at the
same time.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is what we're trying to doand it's happening.
And when it's happening, it'sjust larger than life, it's a
cosmic experience and it's agift that you can be present for
it.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
You know it's so fun.
This happened so I mean so longago, relatively long ago in
your past, and when you wereheading to, weren't aware of
where the director would takeyou today.
But I feel like I have anadrenaline rush imagining my
younger self being like I.
Just I feel so aligned withyour story.

(30:58):
But maybe that's because it'ssuch a it's like a fantasy that
so many kids my age grew up with.
But then, to know youpersonally, I just really feel
like you're taking me along forthe ride now, and the reason I
wanted to know what those peakexperiences were like is to
really highlight what it meantto leave and move on to the next

(31:21):
phase, and I feel like I'mbeing torn away from that dream
just in asking you.
So I really can't begin to graspwhat it was like for yourself,
and if you could speak to thatfor a few minutes, I'd really

(31:41):
appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Yeah, sure, and I appreciate that very much.
The right before I had made thedecision to leave again.
This is coupled with many thereare many factors here.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
How did you even get there, like, like you're saying,
before the decision to leave,but to go from like singing on
stage with the plain white T'sto.
I even could leave or shouldleave.
How does that happen?

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah, that's, that's the right question.
About four or five monthsbefore I left, unfortunately, we
found out that our drummer hadbecome addicted to the meth and
the amphetamines, and that was.
That was a big blow, I meanlook.
I was in a circle of peoplewhere everybody was doing

(32:27):
something, but meth was reallyheavy and it came to a head when
he missed one of our showswhich, if you can imagine, we
showed up where I don't know,maybe the second or third act in
a list of three or four acts,and then there's no drummer.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
There's no drummer means you don't know, were you
able to perform?

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah, so I played an acoustic set.
You know me and my guitarplayer.
And then that then thathappened a second time.
Back to back shows and we'retalking hundreds of people who
came to see a band and theband's not there.
So that itself was probably thefirst major turning point where

(33:09):
, you know, we spoke to him andhe went to rehab and that was
really good of him and we got asubstitute drummer.
But that was the first time Isaw like, oh, all that stuff
they tell you about rock androll there's.
There's a lot of truth to it.
And when it right before thealbum came out.
The record label my managereveryone, everyone on the team

(33:31):
came to me and said, you have tomake a decision, Like you
either have to keep the drummeror lose the drummer.
But if you keep the drummer, wethink that your chances of
being successful aresignificantly less.
And if you lose the drummer, getsomebody else your chances of
success are much higher, andthat was a very intense
experience to go through as a 19year old.

(33:52):
This was one of my closestfriends.
We've been playing together foralmost seven years and now I'm
being told that I have to dropthis individual if I want to
have any shot at making it.
So I said I needed to take abreak.
I took a two week hiatus.
I went.
I went on a trip.
I went to visit my family who atthe time had moved to Israel,

(34:12):
and when I was in Israel I spentthis time reflecting on whether
or not I should keep this guyin the band, keep the dream
alive, or do we choose therelationship over the dream and
hope, you know, by some miraclewe get there?
During that trip I didn't juststart to introspect on my my

(34:35):
drummer and longtime friend.
I started to think deeply aboutwhat I was doing.
In general I never reallythought too deeply about it, I
just kind of went for it becausethat's where I was called, and
so it started to bring up otherfeelings and other ideas about
the vision and the dream,because it was the first time I
was presented with a majorconflict of interest.

(34:57):
This is my friend and this ismy life, my dream, my business.
And after that trip, when I cameback, I made you know probably
top five hardest decisions of mylife, and said we're not going
to work together anymore and wewere going to pursue the dream,
which was extremely challenging.

(35:19):
During that same time period, itcame to light that I knew that
you know being I was raised in areligious home, though I wasn't
all that religious.
At the time, I made a decisionthat I wanted to do something to
stay connected to my heritage,stay connected to the life that
I was brought up with, and soone of the things we do is we
wear these things calledTefillin, which are basically a

(35:43):
ritual that you put something onyour arm and on your head to
remember God and divine guidance.
I told myself that I'd keepthis with me as I kind of went
forward in this journey and dayby day, as I was, you know,
putting these things on my body,thinking about life bigger than

(36:05):
the band.
I never really thought aboutlife bigger than the band.
For me, the music was what itwas all about, and every now and
then you're given opportunitieswhere something points you in
the direction of thinking beyondwhat you're doing.
For me, that was one of thoseinflection points, and the way
that life unfolded was, at thevery same time, maybe six, seven

(36:27):
weeks later somebody came overto me and asked me how long I
was going to do this for, and Isaid do what?
And he said play music, which Ithink is a funny question to ask
a musician.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, you know on their upward trajectory.
Everything's going in the rightway.
How long are you going to dothis?

Speaker 3 (36:49):
for and I said I don't know, I guess until we're
successful and then we'll settledown.
And he said when's that?
And irritated I said when'swhat he said?
When is success?
At the time I told him to havea drink and leave me alone
because he was bothering me.
But I went to bed, woke up thenext morning with that question

(37:11):
in my mind when is success?
I?
Never thought about that as aconcept outside.
I thought success was you justlive your life and you live a
successful life.
I never thought about what doesa successful life look like, and
is it possible to be successfulat what you do and still fail
at life?
I never thought that that was.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
That's huge, that is to be profound to be successful
at what you do and still fail atlife.
It comes from that point ofallowing yourself to be bothered
by the question that he asked,and sometimes people are so made
numb by their success or actualsubstances or a pursuit of a

(37:53):
goal that they get high off ofit.
And there are things that wereally should be made upset by,
and I'm sure you didn't feelthat way in the moment that it's
something that you wanted tomake you upset, but that was.
It's a gift to be able tobecome upset about that type of
type of question.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Yeah, you know, and what I wouldn't even call it
upset I was, it was almostsomewhere between intrigued and
obsessed, like I needed to knowthe answer to the question.
I actually I spent a lot of time.
The way that I got to theanswer for myself was I went and
did the math, like I went andstarted looking up online.

(38:33):
Google was still pretty new atthe time.
I was looking up OK, how manynumber one singles do we have to
have?
How many albums do we have toput out?
How many homes do I need to own?
How many cars do you need todrive, like all these different?
You know, I wanted to create amap of like.
Then I'm successful.
But then I've done it, which Ithink that's.

(38:54):
The atypical part of the storyis I don't know how many people
in the music industry sit thereand try to figure.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Ok, once I get this point, then I'm successful.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
I'm sorry, not punk rock with me, and, and, but
along the way, the more you diginto, these things and I did the
research.
I just saw a lot of unhappylives.
I just saw a lot of people whowere living lives that weren't
in alignment with what mydeepest values were, which
became an incredible conflict ofinterest for myself, which was

(39:24):
I have this dream, but I alsoknow what.
I deeply know what life issupposed to be about.
That included family.
That included peace of mind.
That included being healthy.
And the vast majority of peoplewho are involved in the
industry I was in at the timeand in the area of the industry
I was in, they didn't have that.

(39:45):
They had a lot of fun and theyhad a lot of fame and they might
have had a lot of money, butthey didn't have things that,
deep down, I felt they reallyknew were important to me
personally.
And not long after that, I waskind of hit with like a
lightning bolt of clarity.
It's not like I was walkinghome and it was down the street

(40:05):
from my house and it hit me.
And when, when you're hit withclarity like this, and the
clarity was I need to gosomewhere else.
This isn't it.
I didn't know.
I didn't know what the answerwas yes, but I knew what was no
and no was going forward withthe band and I sat down in an
alley about a block away from myhouse and I just sat down and I

(40:25):
cried because I knew.
I knew that the band was over.
I knew that seven years ofinvestment time, energy, money,
my the universe.
I didn't end up not going touniversity because I decided to
pursue music instead.
I like everything was out and Ididn't even have an answer to

(40:46):
what was in.
But I knew that that was, thatwasn't the right place, and
that's when I started kind ofthe shift and I knew that I
wanted to look for somethingdeeper.
I knew that there was more tolife that I hadn't yet found.
I didn't know what it was, butI knew.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
I think that that's that pivotal, that just when I'm
hearing that story about likewell, what is success, when?
When is that success?
And then you were googling.
What's interesting is you weregoogling already your idea of
what success was, because there,there had to have been some

(41:23):
kind of an idea of what successwas, because you were, you were
on a mission to achieve it.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
Right, somebody has done this before.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
That's exactly right.
And so you had all these.
You had these preconceivedideas.
Ok, success means a certainamount of money.
It's something, these tangiblethings, and you were having a
moment in life of what issuccess really mean and, like
you said, it was this.
It was this deep.
It's this deep, knowing andlike looking for what that is,

(41:57):
you know, looking or movingtoward it.
Right.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
It was the opening experience to sing.
I don't know what the answer isbut I know it's time to start
really looking and where I amisn't the answer.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yeah, yeah.
What was it like getting fromLA to Israel, the entry into
Israel and that transition.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
Yeah, you know, thank you so much.
It's a great question and Idon't get a chance to speak
about that very often.
It was, you know.
I think I mentioned before Iwas kind of laughing and crying
on the whole flight over.
It was a very it was like anemotionally.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Oh, I don't know you did.
No, I don't know you did not.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah right.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
So okay, if we go back to like my last night in LA
, I had told the band that we,that I, was leaving.
The truth is that's actuallynot even how it happened.
There's a whole story beyondthat, which maybe is a story for
another podcast.
But by the time everyone foundout and they were very upset I
had still we sell out a few moreconcerts that we were under

(43:13):
contract to do, and so I wasprobably around three or four
weeks away from my flight out ofLA, but I was still Part of
this band.
We had to go play together onstage a few more times, which
was extremely uncomfortable.
They didn't speak to me fromthat point on.
I didn't, though they were not.

(43:33):
They cut me off Instantly interms of outside of you know Any
sort of business that we hadtogether.
And then we showed up at thevery last concert and we got on
stage and it was a reallypowerful.
It was like a 35 40 minutes setand it was so powerful.
I remember it so vividlybecause during those 40 minutes

(43:58):
it was like nothing had happened.
I think all of us, kind oftranscended in those moments,
forgot the whole of the dramathat was ensuing and we were
just playing music again and itwas like everything was
forgotten.
We had melted into ourinstruments, into the audience
and you know, we let we letpeople know that it was

(44:21):
indefinitely our last concert.
So lots of people came out.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
Wow what a good, would it give that moment must
have been what it must have been.
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
I don't like this is your last concert, but then also
to say, like you transcend it.
Yeah, that's what I mean.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
And it got to almost like relive on a deeper level
what I'm thinking about themoment that you heard the Weezer
song, the Buddy Holly song andI'm just like mm-hmm, and I'm
just like oh, and that is thatmoment, your last, your last
concert, right, is it just?
I mean, I'm not you, but I justI'm like oh, that's a full
circle kind of moment.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
Yeah, it was big.
It was big and like I rememberlooking at my bass players face
while we were on the stage andhe was smiling and looking at me
like it was any other day.
You know, we were just, youknow, jamming out and rocking
out on that stage and and therewas a moment where I thought
we'd get off the stage and we'dall just embrace and and say

(45:20):
goodbye and the concert ended.
We walked off stage.
I said hello to a couple people.
I went to look for them.
They'd they'd all left.
Oh, my god, it was like no,there was no goodbye.
I went to see my tour manager,who was my best friend at the
time, and I walked over to himand I gave him a hug and I said

(45:44):
you know, we'll make it throughthis and he looked at me and he
said, no, we won't.
And that way I'm like and itwas like as cold and cut as you
could have possibly imaginedthat moment to be, and that was
like the very clear oh, this is,this is different.

(46:04):
And then I jumped in a car thata friend of mine was taking me
to the airport and that was it.
I went straight from there tothe flight.
I got on the flight and it was.
It was this they were laughterand like real ecstatic joy and
there was like sadness, becauseit was both.
It was a liberation of have.
Okay, I'm chasing and followingthis calling towards something

(46:26):
higher or something Deeper, andat the same time, it was saying
goodbye to this family that Icreated, to this dream that I
was Following.
It was it was trading one dreamfor another right.
So it was a really intenseexperience on the way out and I
think that that's just a moredramatic version of what we all

(46:48):
go through when we walk awayfrom Something that's special
for something else.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah or walk away from anything, it doesn't you
have to be special.
You know people get attached towho they are at any moment.
Yes and it doesn't matter ifit's, if it's like you know
you're, you're the front man ofa rock band you know, it's any
perception of self just makes it.
The perception of self becomesthe illusion of self.

(47:14):
Yes, transcending away fromthat is devastating For anyone
you know.
And it's like what.
What I heard and what you weresaying is like the transition.
That flight was a simultaneousbirth death experience, which I
think those transitions Maybealways are, if it's the right

(47:34):
transition.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
Yeah, it was a Visceral Experience that you
know, I just I can't forget, youknow.
I just remember being on thatseat.
Lightly it was, it was back andforth and it's sometimes at the
same time, so it was just a lotof emotion.
And then away I got here, Ilanded, I remember my my father
came to pick me up from theairport and drove me to where I

(47:59):
was gonna be staying for therest Of that year, which was
that a sheva I got had mentionedbefore and I had no idea what
to expect there either.
Honestly, I didn't really knowwhat I was walking into.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
But talk about like having a little bit of faith,
you know.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
Yeah, it was.
It was all faith.
And I think for for many yearspeople asked me how'd you do it?
How did you leave the band, howdid you leave that life and
that dream, everything you hadbeen working on?
And for a long time I said itwasn't me, I, I was, you know,
taken out.
I kind of I blamed, I notblamed, but I put it on God as

(48:35):
as a concept.
And then over the years, as I,as I've matured, I realized that
you know, that's, it's not thatit's not true, but my part in
that was the, the faith elementof believing in something deeper
in the world, in myself, inyeah that you had a hand in that
and you have a hand.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
We have a hand in our in, in, in our lives, you know,
and how our lives go as well.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
Yeah, of course, and so I got.
I got there, I landed and andalmost instantly fell in love
with what I found in that place.
Both I went to a very special aShiva, called my home, yako,
where it really facilitatesindependent personal growth in

(49:22):
just as much as creating apositive collective experience.
Going deep into the, thepsychology, philosophy and
metaphysics of what Torah is,what life is about, all the
ideas were speaking to me at avery like a primal level.
I could just feel so much,layer, layer upon layer of truth

(49:47):
that that I was experiencing.
So it was, it was powerful.
I fell in love very fast and,and that became my, my prime
mover.
I've always been less you know,one to listen to my heart, you
know one to listen to, kind ofmy higher self.
And so, when I felt so resonantwith what I was hearing, what I

(50:10):
was seeing, and then I waswatching people walk the walk to
live the life that wereactually experientially living
in accordance with thosephilosophies which I didn't
always see.
So it was both.
I think it was seeing the, thedepth, and hearing the depth of
life, and then watching acommunity of people who didn't

(50:30):
just see it as ideas in a book,but a roadmap for for life and
human expansion you wereinspired to go to Israel, to go
to your she even pursue, youknow, a depth of Jewish learning
and, hopefully, a depth ofunderstanding yourself and your
context and existence.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Okay, and there was an inspiration that led you
there and you saw it becomingmanifest and it was real when
you arrived, when you were inthe band.
There was an image ofinspiration of like who you
could become as the lead singerof the band, who the band could
become in their success and whatlife that would give all of you
.
And, as you saw, saw thatexperience start to manifest

(51:10):
itself.
It became less attractive overtime yes, that's true for sure.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
This was something that continued to evolve in a
way where I, I, I saw it makingmore and more sense.
You know, the it's like themore time you, you spend working
on something, that's true, youknow the the brighter it shines.
Yeah, it was like really justallowing myself to go in and I

(51:41):
really had, I, I the greatprivilege and fortune to be able
to spend years dedicated tosomething like this.
Is how many years it?
Well, it was probably close to12 years before I really started
transitioning into like moreauthorship and speaking.
I did.
I started teaching about sixyears into my learning
experience and I taught forabout six years subsequently and

(52:06):
then and then startedtransitioning more into the role
of a teacher, as opposed to.
You know that anywhere fromeight to 14 hour days of study
and meditation.
So somebody that's dead, Ithink, has a has a little bit of
a distance myself that I have alittle bit of a distance from,
from that type of life.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Right, so you went to Shiva and really the you set
out to be a learner, is that the?
Is that right, like you youknow to to go to Shiva and have,
like, explain that?
Because you just sort of tookus through like I, I learned and
now I'm teaching.
So yeah, yeah, no, I get it.
I get the question great.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
So I'm going to go ahead and yeah, yeah, no, I get
it, I get the question great,thank you because, right, I
think most people, they go to auniversity here, they go to some
certification programmers, theygo to learn something in order
to do something that's exactlyright, that that's, that is the
normative way that we look ateducation.

(53:09):
Right, and this was going tolearn something so that I can be
someone, but not to not to doanything in particular.
It wasn't like, okay, I'm goingto do this and then, once I
have my degree, then I can go dosomething else.
It was this is the informationabout how to live life and to be
, and so it was a psychological,philosophical, mystical path

(53:35):
right to be on where it was andwhat a shift from your original,
from your original thing oflike I'm going to go play some
music, to do this thing.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
I'm, you know, yeah it's almost the exact opposite
you didn't have to you didn'thave to go to school to be a
rock star, you, you just were arock star somehow yeah but and
you didn't even go to school tolearn how to do a finite task
you you went from inherentlybeing a rock star to I'm gonna
mine my soul via learning the,the foundational Jewish texts,

(54:11):
and figure out who I am and whoI can continue to be through the
experience of like being amusician.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
It's like incredible, what a story.
And so now, and you know what'sinteresting, it makes me think
of the of like human being.
Right, we it's.
We're not called human doings,but yeah this is how we like
this is how we operate in theworld, right?
I think, moshe, that's a really, really great point that, like
now, you are living a life whereyou are being yeah and the.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
I think over the years there was a part that did
need to synthesize.
Right, there were meaningthere's, there is a both and
like a.
The elephant in the room isthat it's not one or the other
yeah because we are in a worldthat doesn't just demand action
in Kabbalah.
This world, is this dimensionof reality, is called the world

(55:01):
of Asiya, which means the worldof action or doing.
Even if you were to sit andmeditate on a hilltop, you would
be doing that right, right,exactly I mean even your
non-doing is a form of action ithas to take place that's with
what, while you're stillbreathing and your heart is
still pumping right.
So we're not here to to be inone world or the other, but to

(55:25):
to marry those two worldstogether.
And I was I think I it was justintuitively listening to the
part of me that said now is thetime to go inward and to grow
your mind.
And it wasn't even yet, I mean,it was maybe partially a soul
thing.
But I think this if over those12 years, the first six years
were really about building deepfoundations that were primarily

(55:49):
I would even say almostcompletely philosophical and
somewhat psychological, but verythe deep underpinnings and
foundational ideas of what, whatit means to be a human and to
live this life, and the next sixyears were really about then
going inward, which is when Itook a deeper dive into, like,

(56:09):
the side of Kabbalah andmysticism and where, with all of
that, philosophy intersectswith consciousness and you know,
the human self.
So there were stages to thisprocess all, and then in the end
, it was now.
How do I share this?
I felt very much so called toshare this find, all my findings

(56:31):
, with the world.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
I and I want to circle.
So when you, before we get intobecoming an author, right, so
now, like taking all of the that12 years and and now you are
sort of putting that back outthere as a as an author of now
two books, you mentioned sixyears and six years, which I
just feel like is important tolike.

(56:52):
How did you know what one whenthe first six years was over and
then when the next thing?
Like I don't understand thatprocess.
Is it that you know?

Speaker 3 (57:00):
no, no, it was.
You know again, it's cosmictiming, you know, divine hand
over there.
I got married In my fifth year.
I met my wife about four and ahalf years into my learning
experience.
In my fifth year, here I.
We got married in my sixth year.

(57:21):
We had a child and it wasduring that year that I got
super overwhelmed and had like aminor breakdown.
Yeah, so I mean meaning like itwasn't just it wasn't timed in
that, in that in a I didn't sitthere and create a plan.
Yeah, it just happens to bethat when I was in my sixth year

(57:41):
, I went through a really hardtime Emotionally.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Yeah, that's what I want to do, to point out.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Is that what you do, listening?

Speaker 1 (57:47):
is gonna go.
Oh well, you go to college forfour years and you go get a
master's.
It's two years and that's nothow you're your this process
work for you, yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Yeah, no, not at all meaning.
Had I not gone through this, itprobably just would have looked
more like the first side.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Yes, and this is what you touch on in the
introduction to the threeconditions.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
That's right it was.
It was hard, you know.
Look, I had spent at that pointright, five, six years not
involved in All that manycreative projects.
I wasn't working, I was livingan extremely minimalistic life
in every way you can imagine.
And and then, all of a sudden,there's responsibilities and

(58:30):
there's a child, and there's aspouse to take care of and, like
you know, things pile up reallyfast.
There's finances to take careof that.
There's other human emotionsthat you are now responsible for
.
Yeah and so that was the veryfirst time in a very long time

(58:50):
because my family had moved whenI was a teenager still that I
really felt Bound to anybody oranything in a way that was
outside of myself.
So turns out, I had a lot moreego than I thought I had.
Even though I was learning allthis godly stuff, I was still
quite full of myself.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Well, I'm sure there's so much inspiration when
you met your wife and, like youdon't like fully Be time off,
think about myself also here.
But like you know to especiallyin like the context of like
orthodox Judaism, like thegravity and the beauty and what
it means to meet your Bechert,like the one who you're supposed
to be with your Zeevub, yourpartner, and you're like now I'm

(59:29):
gonna be like my best stuff andeverything's gonna be great.
I'm gonna be the best versionof myself, and that's actually
when everything becomes so real.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Yeah, it was all of that.
I also started teaching at thattime.
So it was I'm teaching, I'm ahusband, I'm a father, I'm I'm
responsible.
Yeah just on another level,which?
again that's the beauty, but italso was my, my gateway into

(59:57):
some version of a dark night sothat I could find a new light on
the other side.
And I searched really hard inall the places that I had been
working on those six years prior.
So, as far as you know,foundational texts of Judaism or
concerns, that's the Talmud andthat's Halacha and that's the
works of philosophy, but Iwasn't finding Help.

(01:00:20):
It was truth, but it wasn'thelp.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
What would have what?
What did help look like then?

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
So I mean, in the beginning, it was me going back
to my mentors and Saying youknow, yeah.
Yeah, I said you know, I feellike what?
What happened?
I dropped my entire life.
I came to this world.
I've immersed myself.
I know, you know, after sixyears of learning, I've got like

(01:00:48):
a master's in Torah.
Yeah, but yeah, it's like yeah,so I've got all this, this
wisdom.
Yeah and I feel far from myself.
I felt far from my intuition,which I was always felt guided
by.
I felt far From God at times.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
It's almost sounds ironic to me, you know what I
mean that you get like you,you're saying this and then, but
yet you're, you're sodisconnected From your higher
self, or for and or from God,right, like that's.
And yeah, that's incredible.
Okay, keep keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
Yeah, yeah, no, and it was.
It was astounding to me becauseI felt like I was having all of
these, you know, feelings ofguilt and anger and shame in my,
in my home.
Or you know, I would go and Iwould give a class and the
classes would be great, but Ihad this extremely powerful
what's it called, impostersyndrome at the time, because I

(01:01:42):
was giving over these deep, deepideas which a year and a half
earlier I would have felt invery much in alignment with, but
at this point in my life,because I was in a down, you
know, mentally, emotionally, soI would come back and then feel
guilty and shame and just kindof crash on the couch, you know.
So it's like it like feltupside down and then All the

(01:02:03):
while feeling far from myselfand from God.
So I turned to my mentors and Iwas saying what am I doing
wrong?
Like I, you know, I thought, Ithought this was it and it all.
It's all true, it, the truth,resonates, but it's not fixing
me.
It's not fixing you know, I'mnot my own personal psychology
and how I relate to the ideas,because at the end of the day,

(01:02:25):
the most true idea isn't Goingto help you if you don't know
how to take that and integrateit into your life.
So until you have the bridgefrom truth to you, it's not
helpful.
In fact, sometimes it can hurt,because now you have an ideal
that you're striving for, butyou don't have a vehicle to get
there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
So what was your bridge?
Yeah, so the truth to you.
So, what was?
What was the bridge For you?

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
the first major bridge was introduced to me
through an element of Torah thatI'd spent Not too much time in
which was the world of Hasidus.
So that's the teachings of theball, shemtov and his students
and Restlove and Chabad Hasidus.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
I was actually very much attracted to it when I was
younger, but those do you mindusing some a little bit, and can
you use a little bit of it likedifferent language for our
listeners who don't know?

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
It's an element of Torah that really does deal more
with the consciousness side of,like the human self, much more
the emotional side of what'sgoing on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Okay, that feels like a definition.
That feels great.
Okay, keep going yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
Yeah, so I mean it's, it's, it's all rooted in the
more Kabbalistic texts alongsidethe Talmud.
So that that was the beginningof a bridge for me.
But there was a point where itgot so challenging where I said
there's, there's got to be a wayto this place.

(01:03:55):
Hold on one second, let me seeif I can relocate my apologies,
because it is going to get loudin a moment rowdy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Yep party time.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
Well, four kids, it's gonna be a non-stop party there
was a point where it got sochallenging that, even with all
the books, I still felt that Iwas missing a key, because I saw
the truth and it was staring meat the face and in the face and
I was Unable to open it.

(01:04:32):
And someone just of coursethere is a perfect timing and
synchronicity in this world andsomeone handed me a book called
the power of now by EckhartTolle, and it was the first book
that wasn't a Torah book thatI'd ever read.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Oh, my goodness.
Wow but that means, you also,we like ever yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
You didn't read like the tale of cities in high
school or nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
If you knew what my high school I Literally Two
books in high school For the,for the record, I had the

(01:05:28):
capacity to read.
Yeah, I just didn't want to.
You know I was.
I was skateboarding,snowboarding, surfing, playing
video games.
For music, that was yeah inhigh school and doing whatever I
had to do to get by, so that Iwasn't, you know, feeling high
school.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
That's incredible.
Okay, so you read the power of,and then, and then.
Not only did you start reading,but you started reading the
most ancient text on the face ofthe planet, which is so
interesting, in a totallydifferent language.
Okay, so you start reading thepower of now, which is Right and
and, and.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
What that book represented to me, other than
the beautiful truth that itholds, was that he spoke in a
language that took the conceptsthat I was seeing over and over
and over again throughoutEverything in the world of Torah
, but was speaking it from the21st century experience.
Wow and so that was the firsttime I was really hearing that

(01:06:25):
type of language and expressionto this side of Torah, right
again.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
I was.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
I was.
I have great mentors and rabbiswho gave great classes and I
got I Went.
Sometimes, when I speak aboutthis element of my journey, it
sounds like, well, no one spokeabout that before.
That's not true.
I was getting it, but not tothis level of depth and this
level of clarity, and so thatthat book, for me, represented a
point in my journey where Isaid, oh wow, you know, I've

(01:06:54):
never actually looked outside ofthe Torah to see how people who
live with us today speak aboutthese ideas, and that opened me
up.
And I spent the next few yearsDeep diving into these two well
strings, with two, two wellsprings, one of them being the
world of Hasidus and Kabbalahand the other one being the

(01:07:19):
world of psychology, new agespirituality.
And just see, seeing the, the,the beautiful, both Confluence
of ideas because, at the end ofthe day, the major, major themes
and realities of life are.
They're ubiquitous and we,they're universal and they're
shared, right, so you can,you'll find them everywhere, and

(01:07:40):
it doesn't matter what Religionyou're connected to or what
people you're a part of or youwere born into.
Everyone agrees gratitude isgood, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Everyone agrees that love is at the centerfold of
what we're doing, right?
So if you, when you, when youdrill all the way in what makes
us human and what makes us move,so it turns out that we have
way, way more in common With allof us on the planet
collectively, then we have lessin common.
So that that's a reallybeautiful one of the journey for

(01:08:16):
me, which was, which was anincredible bridge, because now I
was developing a sensitivity tothe language by which I could
share the same ideas that I wasseeing in the world of Torah,
but to a larger space, and theonly reason why I knew that the
language was true is because Iwas changing.
It was impacting me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
I'm gonna, I'm gonna risk Pushing, pushing back just
a little bit, if that's okay,and I'm like I I had this
feeling when I, when I read theintroduction of the new book and
I Just wondering how, like,what the answer to my question
is, which is when I was studyingreligion academically when I

(01:08:57):
was an undergrad and I wasstudying, like philosophy, I saw
many of the same common themesthat you see as well.
You know, the love, respect,gratitude, like being in a
harmonious system connectingwith nature and humanity.
You know, these are, I think,very universal terms through
lots of different types ofphilosophies and religions and
traditions.
But I also feel that whilethose tone, the Concepts, are

(01:09:21):
the same, they each have adifferent flavor in each one and
so they're both the same anddifferent simultaneously.
And If this is not somethingthat you want to address here,
that's fine.
But like, how much do you feelthey are the similar,
independent of whatevertradition is, and how much do
you think they are different,dependent on the specific

(01:09:43):
tradition?

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
So I, first of all, I think the question is terrific
and so I appreciate it very much.
Thank you, jacob.
You know, for me there was aline I Think it's in a book
called the course and miracles,that says a Universal theology
is not possible, but a universalexperience is not only possible

(01:10:06):
but necessary.
And that, to me, is the answerto the question, which is yes.
I think if you're looking at itfrom an intellectual,
ideological perspective, theyare.
They're all gonna have theirown flavors and Reasons for why
they might understand One valueover another, one position in

(01:10:30):
terms of morality over another,but at the very end of the day,
the experience of you giving ahug to your child because you
love them, that is the same.
And so once we can get beyondthe language which is again one
of the reasons why I titled thefirst book, it's all the same to
me is because when you getbeyond the surface, the

(01:10:51):
underlying experience is wherethe sameness is.
So if you read Seneca and thenyou come and read ancient, you
know Torah philosophy, they'llbe overlap, but obviously
they're coming from very, verydifferent places, and so if we
were having a philosophicaldebate, we could say let's focus
on the nuances of thedifference, because obviously

(01:11:13):
there's elements of overlap, butif we go to the experiential
level of what it means to be ahuman being, the levels of
overlap are, are are not justsimilar, they are the same in
experience of what's going on.
So when we talk aboutconnecting to a Deeper part of
yourself or a higher part ofyour mind, or being Present or

(01:11:34):
conscious or awake or aware,just gonna be lots of different
modalities by which you canspeak about that experience, but
once you get into that moreawakened state, that more
mindful state, so it doesn'tmatter what words you put there
or where it's coming from.
That's the state, is the stateI.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Actually, I was surprised by how much I
understand and agree with thatanswer, which I was not
expecting.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
But I, yeah, and it sounds like the power of now
actually like, did that for you,that like you were at that like
intellectual Level, and I thinkthat's why you were
experiencing a lot of you know,your own pain and discomfort or
dis-ease, you know.
And then you, how did you findthat book?

Speaker 3 (01:12:18):
It was given to me by a good friend of mine who you
know, he didn't even give it tome, yeah mentioned it and said
it was really important.
You should read this book, so Iwent out about it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
Oh yeah, so how do you go from reading your book?

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
I should mention right just to cook, to tie that
in a bow.
At the same time, because ofeverything that I was going
through, I also went and saw atherapist Right.
A lot of people think that, oh,you just read a book and that's
it.
Your whole life changes andthat does work for a lot of
people.
But I had a lot of traumas.
I had a lot of things that Iwas holding in from my youth,

(01:12:52):
that I was unaware of things,resentments that I was carrying,
and I needed someone to hold myhand, and that was really
important.
I'm a big advocate of peoplegoing in, whether that's a
mentor or a friend or aprofessional, but having someone
to speak to about these things,who can help guide you down
that path Invaluable.
For me, it was absolutelylife-changing.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
That's great and also just to name that your children
are there and we hear them, andand that's wonderful.
Yeah yeah, so just for ourlisteners, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Moshe.
If I can ask a question thatmay take us towards the end of
the episode today, moshe, how'dyou get from reading Eckhart
Tolle to writing your, your ownnew age wisdom books?

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
I think for me, the the point really what happened
was in 2019 I went through myown Kind of spiritual
breakthrough, like a.
What felt to me was like asecond awakening in terms of who
I am and what I'm doing.
It was almost like theapplication side of everything.

(01:13:56):
I had been working on that inthat second six-year group and
when I came to that level ofclarity deeply about who I am
and my place in the world, inthe beginning it didn't
translate as an action to do ora place to go.

(01:14:17):
It was just a clear sense of,of knowing, knowing what life
was to me, for me.
But not long afterwards I was.
I was working on a, a project, agroup of ideas that I was
working on putting together, notnot to produce, but for myself.

(01:14:38):
I was sitting in synagoguesomewhere and I was sitting at a
desk and I stopped and Iremember in that moment
Internally saying okay, at inthis moment, right here.
Okay, I'm ready for whatever thenext piece is.
I don't know what the piece is,but I'm ready for the next

(01:14:58):
piece of whatever the chapter,the next chapter of my life, and
the next day it was the nextday or the day after whatever
significantly close togetherafter that moment.
Then it was a clear moment thatI can remember exactly where I
was sitting and how it wasfeeling and the books that were

(01:15:19):
right in front of me.
And it was this clear moment ofah, okay, there's a readiness
and I'm open to receive guidancefrom within or from without as
to what that next step lookslike.
And then, a day or two later, Iwas hit again with this big
clarity of like oh, I'm supposedto share this now.
And I know that it sounds likea funny thing to say out loud

(01:15:43):
Like, oh, I'm gonna share this,but it wasn't.
I should share this now.
I'm gonna share this now.
It was that same knowing withthat weasel.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
I was gonna say the Buddy House song.
It was exactly where I wassitting.

Speaker 3 (01:15:55):
Yeah, it was.
It was like oh, this is whatI'm doing now.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:15:59):
Right At the time, I was reading a book called the
Universe has your Back.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Yeah, I've heard of that book.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
And it was.
I had read a paragraph in thereof a similar kind of knowing,
and it was right after I hadthis experience which was like
the confirmation, like theuniverse kind of winking back at
you.
So you're like, yeah, at thatmoment you just had other people
have it too, it's clear.
And that was it.
I knew that I had to share it.
I didn't know what, by whatmedium to share it in.

(01:16:30):
And then a couple of weekslater I was sitting in a seminar
and someone had a sit down andmeditate and then just write out
what it is that you were doingthis year, and I sat down and I
wrote oh, I'm gonna write aspiritual book rooted in Torah,
that's what I'm doing now.
And that was it.

(01:16:50):
Then I became like a, basicallya person on a mission, and I
didn't stop.
The next month I sat down and Iwrote the three conditions in
three and a half weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:17:02):
Oh my gosh.
In three and a half weeks, yeah.
And when is yeah?
When does that book come out?
Yeah, when does it come out?

Speaker 3 (01:17:10):
November 7th.
That book comes out November7th.
Yeah, that book I wrote inthree and a half weeks and then
four months later, covid cameout and then we had to stop the
production on it and duringCOVID that I had this feeling
that the three conditions wasthe wrong book for the timing,
because people were feeling alot of fear and anxiety.

(01:17:31):
Oh my God.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
That is.
That is Chills chills, chills.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
To know that you had the inspiration and intuition to
write the book and then to alsohave the wherewithal to know
like, oh, I wrote it.
It exists, but it's the wrongtime.

Speaker 3 (01:17:47):
Which means it's the wrong book.
So I wrote another book andthat's when I wrote.
That's all the same thing,amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
So wait a second.
So you wrote the threeconditions first, then you were
going to get it published andthen you were like no, no, no,
no, because now there's a hugepandemic.
And you're like the world can'treceive this right now.
Like, intuitively, you knewthat.
And then, and then, but here'sthe thing you didn't just, you
weren't like, let me just see ifthere's something else that I

(01:18:14):
could just whip up.
What guided you then to write?
Was it something about thepandemic?
Like what inspired it's all thesame to me at that time.

Speaker 3 (01:18:26):
It's all the same to me came from the combination of
what the world was feeling atthe time, which I just kept
hearing from everyone around methe kind of the fear, the
loneliness there was, a lot ofexistential dread people were
living with.
And then it was my own personalpractice.

(01:18:46):
I've been working on this for awhile at the time the concept
of Pistavos, which meanssameness.
I was working on this conceptof sameness for a long time and
then the first six to eightweeks of the pandemic, where I
was there was heavy lockdown,couldn't go anywhere, couldn't
leave your apartment.
I was feeling a lot of it too,right In a deep way, and so I

(01:19:09):
made it my practice to work onthis concept in a deep and
meaningful way.
And coming out of that, abouttwo months into the pandemic,
that's when I said this is thefact that I'm working on this
and it works for me, and I knowthat this is an elemental,
fundamental truth that we canshare to actually help people

(01:19:30):
get to this place.
That's what I want to writeabout and share with people now,
Because we didn't know if thepandemic was gonna last two
months, two years or 20 years.
So we need help, and so I wrotethat and that was such an
incredible blessing.
I mean such a blessing from thedarkness of that time.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
Well, it certainly helped me, and I know dozens of
people had helped, and I'massuming it helped hundreds if
not thousands.
I don't know how many, butanyone who can pick this book up
, I think, should pick it up,yeah it's worth reading or
listening to because it's on.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
you can get it as an audiobook, too, and it's really
worth it and I'm really excitedfor the three conditions.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
Could you speak to the three conditions?
I don't know how much time youhave, Moshe, but since the three
conditions came to you first,and we'll get to it last.
I guess I don't know what youhave time for, either to name
the conditions or to open up oneof the conditions for us.
Whatever you like.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
Whatever feels right.
Yeah, just to share whatevercomes to you, if you don't mind.

Speaker 3 (01:20:40):
Well, the title of the book is the Three Conditions
how intention, joy andcertainty will supercharge your
life.
What the book is about isreally that last part of the
subtitle, which is how toelevate and supercharge the life
that you're already living.
We all have to go through thisthing called life.

(01:21:03):
You're born not by your choice,but how you go through life,
how you live your life, how youexperience what's going on you
have far more control over.
And the way that one canelevate their state of
consciousness, their generalenergy, their frequency, how

(01:21:24):
they go through this world, isby making a shift in their
psychology, in their state ofawareness.
So the three conditions by whichyou do that are number one
intention and, in short,intention is coming back to what
our soul intention is in thisworld.
What are we doing here?

(01:21:45):
What is the overarching desireof each and every one of our
individual souls?
And that is to be the fullexpression of our authentic self
, who we are, without feelingbridled by popular opinion or
the belief systems that youmight have locked yourself into

(01:22:07):
as a child or which may havecome through some sort of trauma
, but to really feel the depthof your soul and then to express
that that's in your creativity,that's in your choices, that's
in your ability to experiencethe truth of who you are, which
is a pure, good and elevatedbeing.
The second condition iscertainty, and what certainty is

(01:22:30):
about is going beyond just thefact that you're connected to
your own innate goodness, butbeing certain that life has
purpose, that life is notchaotic but has order.
The word cosmos actually meansorder, so the recognition that
all of, even all of chaos isjust unseen order.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
Oh, I never heard of it that way.
I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:55):
Yeah, and so it's really coming back to that place
.
And you don't have to come toan internal reference point that
says everything's good all thetime, even when I see all the
bad.
That's an unreasonableexpectation.
But to at least come to a placeof open-mindedness, that I'm
certain that I don't know thewhole picture and that there is
more to be seen, and I'm open tothat.

(01:23:18):
And staying open to that meansI'm also open to opportunities.
I'm open to good for comingfrom this.
I can learn a lesson from thisthis could be leading me in a
new direction in my life that Ineed to go on and that openness
allows for nourishing,restorative, healthy positivity.
And then that third space is thethird condition, is joy.

(01:23:39):
And when I call it a condition,what I mean is those three
things are the space by whichyou can get to the supercharged
level or the elevated state ofconsciousness.
So joy is the measuring stick,it's the barometer by which you
can sense and measure how muchare you living with intention,

(01:24:02):
which is the expression ofauthentic self and the
experience of authentic self,and in alignment with certainty.
So it made simple if you canrecognize and be awakened to
your innate goodness and theinnate goodness of life.
So you will naturallyexperience an underlying joy,

(01:24:24):
piece of the goodness that is,and it'll be something that's
tangible.
If you don't feel that, itmeans that there's still a
disconnect somewhere between howyou're perceiving yourself or
perceiving the world you're in.
There's no two ways about it.
That's the only.

Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
That's a really helpful tool.
Just you saying that, like ifyou're not feeling that that
this is what you might expect,this is possibly why that's not
happening for you.

Speaker 3 (01:24:52):
Yeah, well, our feelings are the physical
interpretation, or energeticinterpretation of what we're
thinking, believing and focusingon.
So if you are thinking aboutyourself or believing about
yourself in a way that isderogatory or negative, so
you're going to experience thatin your emotion and if you're

(01:25:13):
blocking that out, then it'sgoing to show up in your body.

Speaker 1 (01:25:16):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:25:18):
You know, when you talk about harmonious things in
different traditions, like thegolden rule of treat others the
way you'd like to be treated,you see that in many different
places and that statement canonly be supported by the
assumption that the personactually wants to be treated
well, or that they lovethemselves, or that they think

(01:25:38):
that they are deeply good andI've had to do this work for
myself and with many of myclients and friends of like.
What does it mean to grow to alevel where you just know you
are inherently good in a deepway and that the world around
you is also inherently good in adeep way?
And how do you align yourselfin that with the proper mind to

(01:26:02):
experience that?
And that's what I hear yousaying here.
Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (01:26:07):
Yeah, I mean, the world is the way that the
Balashankov says it is.
He says the world is a mirror,right?
So the way that you seeyourself is going to be the way
that you see everything in theworld.
The world that you see isreally just showing you how you
see the world how you seeyourself.

Speaker 1 (01:26:23):
Yeah, wow, you know, mosha, I was so excited to talk
to you again today because Ifeel like I could talk to you
and listen to you and talk toyou for hours.
I really do.
This has felt like such anincredible, like a real gift,
just the conversation and whatyou're sharing.

(01:26:46):
And I feel so, so grateful thatnot only are we able to have
this conversation, but there arethese books out there that if
people can't, they can't have aconversation with you for
whatever reason, they get tohave a piece of your insight and
wisdom through the books you'rewriting.
It just feels incredible.

Speaker 3 (01:27:05):
I'm so glad, so great .
Thank you so much.
Yeah, I mean, I got to tell youguys this has been such a
pleasure.
You guys are amazing and I lovewhat you're doing, and thank
you so much for having me andbeing a part of this and I look
forward to another time down theline.
We cannot wait.

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
Thanks, mosha, and when next time you're back in
the States, we'd love to spendsome time together.
Maybe do another episode inperson, it'd be amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
But you are coming back to the States but not to
Philadelphia, so do you want toshare a little bit about your
upcoming tour, how people canbuy your book anything else that
you'd like to share with ourlisteners.

Speaker 3 (01:27:41):
Yeah, well, the most important thing is that people
should go out and get the book.
Not just because I think it'sgood for me to sell books, but
because I think they'llappreciate it.
I think you really like what'son the inside, and because my
publishers have put so much intothis.
They put just as much love intothis as I have, and I really
want people to see what it'slike to work in this amazing

(01:28:05):
team.
So it was all of my life storyinsight and wisdom and packaged
with just elegance.
So I think people really enjoywhat they're going to get.

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
That's beautiful.
And then what about when you'retouring right?
So you're going to yeah, andthen I'm going to be in the
States.

Speaker 3 (01:28:21):
We're going to do a tour that starts on the West
Coast in Los Angeles at the endof October of 2023.
If you're listening to this nowin 2027, you missed it.
Information on the tour and thebook and everything else can be
found at my website.
So it's moshugarshcom.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
OK, great, we'll put that on the show notes.

Speaker 3 (01:28:45):
And yeah, and the books on Amazon and parts of the
book are wherever people gettheir books.
And Audible, yeah, and Audible,that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:52):
Yeah, awesome, all right.
Yeah, that's it Veryunfortunately.

Speaker 2 (01:28:57):
I think we have to grab a grish.
Do you have to run us about?

Speaker 3 (01:29:00):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Thank you so so much, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
I found thank yous.
And absolutely my pleasure.
You guys are amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:29:09):
I think what you're doing is amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:29:11):
I think the idea behind what you're trying to
bring forward in the podcast isbeautiful, wishing you continued
success and blessing andeverything you're up to.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
Thank you so much, Marcia.
This has been beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
OK, we'll be in touch .

Speaker 3 (01:29:26):
OK, looking forward to it.
Have a great rest of your day,you too.

Speaker 1 (01:29:30):
Bye-bye, bye-bye.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
We want to thank you so much for listening to today's
episode.
If anything in today's episodespoke to you, please like
subscribe rate and review.
Also, don't forget to sharethis podcast with friends and
family.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
And if there's anybody that you know that you
think would be a great guest onIntuitive Choices, please email
us at intuitivechoicespodcast atgmailcom.
Finally, if you want to knowmore about our mental health
practice, intuitive counselingand wellness, please check us
out atintuitivecounselingoffillycom.
Thank you.

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