September 7, 2023 • 56 mins
While doing her last bike ride before the USA Triathlon National Championship, Cheyenne Meyer made a left hand turn and was suddenly hit by a car. She flew from her bike and broke her pelvis, sternum, sacrum, left shoulder, and suffered a brain contusion. In an instant her dream of becoming a national champion was taken from her. However, having a champion's spirit is not contingent on winning a championship.
Since her accident Cheyenne has committed herself to a life of service. Today, Cheyenne's life revolves her work as a guide for athletes with disabilities, including people from the Blind and Deaf communities, competing with them in triathlons and several other sports. Cheyenne not only acts as guide during competitions, but she is involved with two non-profits which help fund the para-athlete community.
If you're looking for an episode to help you tap into your inner champion, this is the episode for you.
To connect with Cheyenne's non-profit work:
Blind Fury Burning Barriers:
https://www.facebook.com/blindfuryburningbarriers/mentions
TRYBE, Adaptive Personal Training:
https://www.instagram.com/trybe_adaptive/?hl=en
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey everybody, I'm Kimberly Dobbs.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
And I'm Jacob Miller.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
And we'd like to welcome you to another episode
of Intuitive Choices.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Kim and I are mental health therapists working in
Philadelphia.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Each week, we invite a guest to speak about how their
own intuitive choices have ledthem to live a more meaningful
life.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
We hope that this conversation encourages you to
make meaningful choices in yourown life.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Alright, off we go.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Today we are so thrilled to have with us
Cheyenne Meyer.
She is somebody that I had theprivilege of meeting a couple of
years ago Because, for thosepeople who are listening who
don't know this about me, Iparticipate in para sports and
(00:52):
what that really stands for?
Para stands for parallel, whichis essentially an entire
community for people toparticipate in athleticism if
you are a person withdisabilities or differences, as
I like to say, and I, sarah,dippinously, came across
Cheyenne a couple of years agoat a race, actually a cycling
(01:15):
event where she was the teammateof a blind athlete that I
happened to be competing against, and ever since then she and I
kept in touch and I didn't knowmuch about her story, but I knew
enough about it that I justknew it was important to tell,
and so she agreed to come on andspeak with Jacob and I to tell
(01:40):
her story, and so I'm so excitedto welcome you, cheyenne, to
have this awesome conversationwith Jacob, and I so welcome.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
We're so grateful you're able to join us.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah you have no idea .
So why don't we?
Why don't we start out withjust tell us a little bit about
your personal story on and yourrelationship with sports and
athletics, not so much theparasite of it, but your story.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Sure.
So when I was in high school Iwas not really good at any
sports I was.
I couldn't catch, I couldn'tthrow, couldn't kick, so there
were not a lot of sports thatwere good for me.
And so that's when I foundrunning, and so I knew you
couldn't really mess up running,you just run.
And so I ran cross country andtrack and high school for a
(02:33):
couple of years and I ended upgetting a athletic and academic
scholarship to run cross countryand college.
So I ran division to crosscountry and track for three
years before I graduated andthen went on to grad school.
When I got to grad school my dadbought me a bike so I could
commute around my college and Ifigured if I could just learn
how to swim then I could do atriathlon.
So I joined the triathlon team.
(02:56):
I started learning how to swimand then I started competing in
triathlons, which is a swim,bike and run race, and I
absolutely loved it.
I found out that I was actuallypretty good at cycling and I
could use my talents andcontinued to win my age group in
certain races.
Then I started competing andwinning entire races and so I
(03:17):
found that triathlon was reallythe sport for me.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Shane, could you explain what a triathlon is or
how a triathlon works, like thedistances, like what's involved?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Sure.
So a triathlon is any race thathas a component of swimming,
biking and running.
So you can go anywhere from asprint distance, which is
probably 500 yards, swim, 13mile bike and then a 5K run.
You can have an aqua bike,which is just the swimming and
the biking.
You can do an aqua thawne,which is the swimming and the
(03:47):
running.
Or you can do a duathlon, whichis run, bike, run.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Wow, okay, and what were the distances you were
competing when you were incollege and post college?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Like in your prime.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh, when I was in my prime, I would do sprint and
Olympic distance.
So a big distance would be 1500yards swim, a 40K bike and then
a 10K run.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I've actually done two sprint triathlons and I
honestly thought I was going todie after the 400 meter swim and
after my second one.
I don't even know why I did thesecond one, because the first
one was so hard, but I think itwould take a lot to get me back
in the water.
So I'm very impressed witheverything that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Honestly, sprints are so hard In fact they're like
the hardest one there is in myopinion, like I've been doing
Ironman so long and Ironman is Iknow this doesn't sound right,
but it's easier.
Right, because it's slow andit's like you can spend all day
doing it right, like you've gottime.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, now I got it.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You don't have to like hustle.
You know you can just kind oftake your time, Whereas a sprint
you don't have a moment to likegrab a thing of water, Like you
have to go.
There's just like no time towaste, and so you're going like
balls to the wall.
That's right Like full time, soI totally get it.
Sprints hurt.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I want to ask you a quick, I just want to back up
really quickly.
So it sounds like you had likea gravitational pull toward
sports in general when you wereyounger and it was just finding
the right one for you, becausesome people just don't have that
pull at all.
But it sounds like you did,despite, like you're saying, not
necessarily being particularlydoing it well per se.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, I always wanted to be sporty.
You know, I was a smart kid andI was good at academics and I
was involved in theater, but Iwanted to be good at a sport.
I really wanted to be sportysomehow and I wanted to continue
to be healthy.
You know, they they say you'regoing to gain the freshman 15
when you go to college and Ididn't want that.
I wanted to remain healthy andkeep up my you know, physical
(06:00):
fitness as much as I could, butin a way that was enjoyable to
me.
And other sports because Iwasn't any good at them, they
just weren't enjoyable to me,yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, you know it.
Really I didn't realize thefirst time we had like chatted
prior to the podcast, that youhad been in division two sports
and I think that's like the mostdifficult division to be a part
of.
I was a division three athlete,which I loved because it's like
all the fun of the sport andnone of the obligation so much
and none of the like obligationthat's like linked to your
academics, let's say, or like ascholarships on the line,
(06:29):
anything like that.
Division one it seems like allabout the athletics, less about
the academics, not for everyone,but it seems like that.
For division two it's like youhave the obligations of a
division one athlete but itdoesn't seem to get the same
perks as a Division I athlete.
Does that resonate with you ordo I have a false perception?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
No, that totally makes sense to me.
That's spot on, oh interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
So, how did you gravitate to Division II sports
as opposed to like one or three?
It's like a hard middle groundto be a part of.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Sure, so I definitely wasn't good enough for one.
I was middle to the back of thepack on my very best day, but I
got my scholarship in academicsand athletics so I was able to
join the team, kind of on apromise of you know my potential
, and then just continue toimprove from there.
(07:23):
I also was the editor of theschool paper when I was in
college, so it was nice to havethat also that side of things,
so that I could write storiesabout our cross-country meets
and our track meets and give ourteam the recognition that they
sometimes didn't always get.
Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
That's a you know.
It speaks to you as atriathlete almost is that even
in the sport you're doing it'smultifaceted.
You know there's three phases,very different systems.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, so true.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And in your life itself you kind of carry that
ethos into your academic work,your athletic work and, I'm sure
, many other spheres.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
No, I love that observation, Jake.
Yeah, so going back to college,right and finding triathlons,
okay, and you're like, oh, Istarted riding bikes and then at
the swimming, and then whatended up like did you at some
point want to take your journeyas an athlete past college and
(08:25):
continue to compete, maybe youknow, in maybe larger level, on
a higher level?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Absolutely yeah.
When I won my first race, Iknew that this was the sport I
wanted to continue in.
And then when I started winningmoney at races you know I
wasn't always winning, but if Iwas on the top three of the
podium then I would win, youknow, some money and so I was
thinking, wow, this is somethingI'd really like to pursue.
I don't know if I'm likeOlympic level, but I'd like to
(08:53):
at least try to continue tocompete in this sport, and one
way that you can do that is tocompete at the age group
national championships for theUSA triathlon.
And so when I won my first race, I qualified for the age group
national championships and I wasgetting ready to go to that
event.
And actually the Monday beforeI was supposed to go to the
(09:16):
national championships tocompete against the best
competitors in my age group iswhen the thing happened that
completely changed my life, andI think that's something that
we're going to be talking abouttoday.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
How did you let us know a little bit about what
that, what that thing was?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Absolutely so.
On the Tuesday before the bigrace you're supposed to take
your bike over to the local bikeshop that will ship your bike
to the race site, and so I wasgetting ready to do my last bike
ride before I would ship mybike off.
And so it was a Mondayafternoon, it was hot.
I was just going to do a quicktwo hour bike ride and then take
(09:52):
my bike and get ready to get itshipped.
So as I was riding my bike onthat Monday, it was really hot I
was getting ready to do just aquick two hour ride and then get
ready to ship my bike off.
And as I was riding, I wasgoing to turn back around, and
when I made my U turn I was hitby a car on my left side.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
So immediately upon impact I was thrown from my bike
and thrown onto the shoulder ofthe road.
I broke my pelvis in sevenplaces.
I broke my sternum, my sacrumon both sides, two ribs and my
left shoulder.
I suffered a brain contusionand I also got a huge chunk of
glass stuck into my left arm.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Oh my God, were you aware of what was happening as
it was happening?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Honestly no, I think I was conscious the whole time
but my brain just kind of shutoff and had blocked that car.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So you remember, like you remember getting hit or you
remember people telling youwhat happened.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I don't remember getting hit.
I don't remember the next, like20 minutes at all.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
You had no idea that this car was next to you when
you were about to turn.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I don't remember any of that.
I couldn't tell you what thecar looked like.
Any of that?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So in your in like the way you perceived the event
you were riding your bike, andthen when did you come to?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I finally.
Well, I hear from differentpeople that I was awake and then
I would go in and out ofconsciousness and I would talk
to people.
I was talking to the nurses inthe life light helicopter when
they came to pick me up.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Wow, so you were a helicopter to the hospital.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I was.
It was rush hour in Houston andI needed the highest level of
care and to get downtown itwould have taken hours and I was
bleeding internally.
So I needed to get downtownquickly, and so in the
helicopter it only took 13minutes to get downtown.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
That's a long, 13 minutes, yeah.
It really was.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Were you alone or was any?
Were you with any family?
So poor?
Was it just?
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
It was just me.
Luckily I had my road IDemergency bracelet on, so the
EMTs were able to call thepeople on my emergency bracelet
and let them know what was goingon.
But with life light helicopterpatients, especially women, they
give you an alias.
So when you get to the hospitalmy family was asking we're
(12:08):
looking for Cheyenne.
And they said we don't have aCheyenne here, but they had
given me some other name.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Why.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
What's so yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So I guess if a woman has suffered trauma, you know,
sometimes they can't protect herfrom the person.
Maybe that caused the trauma,and so they give them an alias.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
That's really interesting Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
So, yeah, so I don't remember being alert or talking
during the hospital or duringthe helicopter travel.
However, people were sayingthat I was talking to them, you
know, saying things that reallydidn't make sense.
I was a real head injury victimbecause I was just saying the
same things over and over, whichwas how's my bike?
(12:52):
Where's my bike?
That's what a cyclist dowhenever we get into an accident
.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
For people who don't know so much about cycling or
triathlon.
Can you give people a senselike, how much does the bike
cost, or the wheels or theprocess involved?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Oh my gosh, my bike.
I was still paying my bike offthat I got hit on.
It was a huge deal.
Thousands of dollars go intotriathlon for the best gear, the
best bike, the best wheels andall the other things that go
into it.
So I was really concerned aboutmy bike, more than myself.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So let me I just want to circle back here.
So how old were you when thisaccident happened?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Let's see, it was 2016.
Okay, so seven years ago Iwould have been 23.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So at 23, you're about to compete in a national
championship, first time as atriathlete, and you get into
this accident and with all ofthis idea that you would it
sounds like you wanted to pursuethis professionally right Like
(14:04):
to see how, really, how far youcould take it, and then, like in
the in the blink of an eye,your whole life just just goes
into a completely differentdirection.
And so when did you, do youremember the moment of, like,
waking up in the hospital?
Like that moment that you, likethat everything's came together
(14:24):
.
You're like, oh my God, likethis is like what just happened
in my life, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Did you have that moment?
Yeah, I remember.
I remember waking up in thehospital it must have been two
or three days later and wakingup and seeing that I was in a
hospital bed and just freakingout like well, okay, I'm going
to be able to get out Right, I'mgoing to still be able to do my
race, right.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Are you still thinking about the actual race?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, yeah, I remember lifting up the covers
because I was trying to figureout like what on me is hurt,
because I can't tell.
I'm on so many drugs that I'mnot feeling anything.
But I lift up the covers and Isee like all these wraps and
stitches and bandages and I'mlike, oh wow, like this is not
good, that's a bummer, that'sall I could think about.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Oh my God.
And who was communicating withyou in and around that time.
That was saying to you likehere's the situation, this is
serious, like what was, likethat process, like when you
started to really realize whathappened, what really happened
to your body, what this mightlook like for your life.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It was a real.
It was a real confusing timebecause of my head injury.
I was having to ask the samequestions over and over and be
told the same thing over andover again, and I know it broke
my parents' heart.
Every time I had to ask themwell, what's going on?
What happened?
Am I going to be able to race?
Am I going to be able to walk?
Like?
And I would forget, because thehead injury was so fresh that
(15:56):
it just I kept asking thosequestions and so, yeah, it was a
really confusing time justtrying to wrap my head around it
, and when I finally did graspit, then I would forget again.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Cheyenne.
This may be a strange questionand but in the things you're
describing, I can't help butthink about something called the
extended mind thesis, which iswhich is that our consciousness,
or, like our sense of self,flows into the tools we use most
regularly.
So when we're using a tool thatfeels like a part of us, that
(16:29):
it goes from being a tool tobeing us.
So, like often, we feel likeour clothes are us.
Sometimes people are attachedto, like their cars, and they
feel like you know, their car isthem.
Certainly, people's cell phonesfeel like a part of them.
They get anxious when, like,the batteries start to die.
It sounds like your selfhoodwas like not only linked to your
actual bike but to your limbsas tools and then also to your
(16:52):
identity as a triathlete.
Having those things taken awayfrom you so rapidly, I have to
imagine was was violentlyalienating.
Having those that experience beso alienating, where did you
find yourself after those thingswere taken away?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
That's a really good question and the answer is I had
no clue who I was without thosetools the tools of my body
being like a tool that I coulduse to compete without my bike.
Like I felt completely lostBefore my accident.
I kind of think I was a bit ofa jerk.
I was very self-centered.
(17:33):
Triathlon became an obsessionfor me because it was something
I was finally a sport I was goodat, and I just held on to that
super tightly and so I wouldwake up at four in the morning,
I would go to bed at 10 and Iwould do it all over again,
workout twice a day.
I was obsessed with numbers andcalories and percentages.
(17:54):
I mean I would.
I would track other people'sperformances and races to see if
I could beat them on race day.
Like it became a real obsession.
So when I got to the hospitaland I realized like I'm not
going to be racing anytime soon,I was like what in the world am
I going to do instead?
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Wow, how do you think you?
I have hard trouble believingthat you were a jerk, so I'm
just going to use your own wordshere.
In that, in that state of being, like, obsessed with the sport,
how do you think you got there?
And do you know why?
Maybe you got to that level ofobsession?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I think it was just because I wanted so badly to be
good at something other thanacademics.
I wanted to be known forsomething other than my ability
to write, my ability to speakand, you know, being good at
school subjects.
Like I wanted to be athleticand when I finally found that
thing that I could go, I couldwin and people would, you know,
(18:51):
praise me for being good atwinning.
Or, you know, I would show upto a race and people would say,
hey, Cheyenne, are you going towin today?
Like that made me feel awesomebecause I was finally really
good at a sport where I couldshow up and I could be the
winner, and so that's.
I think that's really wherethat obsession came from.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Why do you think that was so important to you to be
the winner?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I love the attention.
I love people being proud of mefor something other than my you
know, my knowledge.
I love just everybody lookingat me and thinking that I'm, you
know, such a cool and awesomeperson because I'm winning races
or running fast times.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
How did you feel that transition start to take place
of becoming the Cheyenne postaccident?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I woke up and I said, man, like things need to change
right now, because theprioritization of things in my
life is completely wrong.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
So you knew that in an instant.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Oh, absolutely.
I was like I am a jerk and thisis terrible.
And I need to apologize to thisperson, this person, this
person Like I need to startfixing things right now.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Did you feel a sense of that before the accident?
I can't imagine and it couldhappen so fast unless you had
already been contemplating thosethings.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Oh, I knew I was a jerk before my accident.
I guess I just didn't take anysteps to fix it, and this was
that wake up call that I needed.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So that's how did you see?
This is.
What's so interesting is thatit's almost as if you you were
able to see pretty quickly afterwaking up from the accident
that that that was the wake upcall around, like shifting your
priorities, not in this, likeeverything happens for a reason,
kind of way I don't I don'tnecessarily subscribe to that
(20:42):
but that you were able to makethis connection between I have
to make some serious changes andthis is this, is the.
This is going to helpfacilitate those deeper changes
in me.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, I think I thought that I would start
making those changes after mybig race, after my big race was
over.
Then I could focus on differentthings or I could take some
time off, you know, and I wasjust waiting and waiting and
waiting until that moment, butthis was just the universe
telling me, you know, it's timefor us to fix these things now,
and I think that's one reallygreat thing that has happened.
(21:17):
A lot of great things havehappened out of this incident in
my life, but that's one of thebiggest things is that it showed
me that it's not all about meand that family and friends need
to take higher priority in yourlife over any obsessions that
you have.
You know, any hobbies that youtake part of, like, those things
can't come before the peoplethat matter to you most.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I'm just taking a moment.
I'm really touched by what yousaid and how you said it.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, I remember before the accident, when I was
so wrapped up in triathlon andcompeting and doing all my
training, my family would notget the time of day for me.
My partner at the time wasgetting pushed to the back
burner.
My friends, they just weren'tgetting the real Cheyenne, they
weren't getting quality timewith me because I'm sorry, I'm
(22:11):
too busy, I've got to go train,I've got to go do this, I've got
to go study the course orwhatever I had to do.
And so that was just a hugewake up call for me Like no,
these people, these are mybiggest supporters and they
deserve better.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
It almost sounds like you also weren't getting the
full you.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I think so.
Yeah, I think I was wrapped upin this identity of triathlete
and losing out on all the otherthings that make me me.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
So, speaking of like the things that make you you,
how did you then transition orbegin to work with the para
community or involve yourselfwith people who are in the para
community?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah.
So when I was at a triathlonpretty early in my triathlon
days, I saw an athlete competingwho was blind and he had a
guide with him, and his guidewas actually somebody that I
knew kind of a little bitthrough the community.
So I just went up and talked tothem like, hey, this is really
cool.
I wonder if that's somethingthat I could do.
I would love to help somebodyelse achieve their goals.
(23:21):
And he said well, why don't youmeet us at the park and we'll
show you how it's done?
So I met them at the park.
I met the first person who I'dever met who was blind, and I
learned a ton from him, learningwhat they need when, when
running, when cycling, and so Ijust got really involved in this
and actually the night of myaccident the next morning I was
(23:44):
scheduled to run as a guide forthat same young man, and so when
I woke up in the hospitalfreaking out, I said somebody
call Brandon, because I can'tguide him tomorrow.
That was like the first thing Icould think of was talk about
how to get a guide, talk aboutselfless right.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
We talk about a moment right of that like proof
of like self issues you like tocall it to selfless, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I didn't fully immerse myself in the blind
community before my accidentbecause I was kind of selfish
and you know I need to focusmore on myself and not helping
all these other people the restof the time.
But after my accident I wantedto find ways to continue and
involve myself in that communityand because I had kind of lost
(24:30):
some of my speed, I waswondering if I could run with
other athletes who were maybeslower than I was whenever I had
had you know my peakperformance or whatever.
And so enter David Kuhn, who isthis really awesome guy who
lives in Illinois, and he neededa guide for a 5k in Houston.
(24:52):
And so that was my new goal was, once I was able to get healed,
I that would be my first raceback, once I was able to run
again was to guide him for arace.
And that was that's what I puton my calendar, just like I
would any other race, you know,a national championship or
whatever.
But my next big goal was alocal 5k as a guide.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And from.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
There it just snowballs.
And I've been guiding eversince, almost exclusively
because I just find it's waymore fun.
I meet these amazing people, wehave genuine friendships and
partnerships and I get to havesomebody to talk to the whole
time.
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
I can tell you I'm personally grateful for that.
I just want to say, althoughyou've never guided me yet, I'm
personally grateful for for that.
So I just want to say that, god, jacob, what were you gonna ask
?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I was just saying, like Shayan, I just don't, I
just I have trouble fullybelieving like this, this
selfish image that mayoversimplify your pre guide life
.
Because, first off, torecognize that there's someone
that you wanted to guide orcould guide, and then to so
rapidly make the realizationsyou did when you woke up and
(26:09):
then commit yourself to thisgoal of being able to be the
guide which gives you your ownmotivation to get yourself
better in order to guide others,that really speaks to like a
depth of you, or at least someseeds that were trying to sprout
prior to your accident.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I think that came.
That would I mean, because Iagree with Jacob like where did
that come from in you, you think?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I think a spirit of service has always been
something that's been importantto me and instilled in me from
my parents.
You know we've been doingvolunteer community service ever
since I can remember.
When I was really little wewould go to the nursing homes
and just visit with the peoplewho live in assisted living.
We would sometimes give littleenvelopes full of money to
(27:04):
people at the at the dollarstore to give them around
Christmas time to help them withsome of the holiday expenses.
We would go on mission tripsand put on vacation Bible
schools for kids in underservedareas.
So community service has alwaysbeen something that's important
to me and I wouldn't sayguiding is necessarily community
(27:25):
service.
I mean it's more of like you'reserving a friend, just giving
them an extra hand to compete,and so I guess that's just kind
of where that transition camefrom.
I just wanted to help somebodyelse do the same thing that I
love to do, but in a way that issafe and fun for them.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I love that.
You have no idea.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I think it's a.
It's a rare gift for someone toappreciate serving others, and
it doesn't seem to be such acommon trait.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And I will add to that that, as a person who is in
the blind community, who Irecognize that while I don't I
don't want to really believethat I have limitations, I do
and that finding somebody likeyou, cheyenne, who really can
(28:18):
see the difference, part of thepun, between doing something for
a person and doing it with aperson, I think is such a huge
thing.
That, like that, is a bigdifference.
As a person who is blind, weall we have to ask for help all
the time everybody does, and weespecially all the time.
(28:41):
And so for you to be able torecognize that that there are
you know that these are, thatthere might be people, friends
of yours, that really couldbenefit from from you
participating in their life inthis very specific way so that
they can experience joy, I thinkit's like I just yeah, I just
(29:04):
really feel grateful.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
I like how you said that it's not doing something
for someone, it's doingsomething with someone.
I've definitely learned thatover the last few years.
Like guiding is not.
People think it's like a job ora volunteer opportunity.
But no, it's.
It's a chance to get to hangout with a friend and it's
awesome.
I get, I get to do this all thetime go hang out with friends
(29:28):
and go race with them, you know.
And so I used to say like ohyeah, I'm guiding so and so in
this race.
But now it's like oh no, I'mdoing such and such race with my
, my friend, it's just it's sodifferent.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
In what you're saying , I like reminds me of like this
, this ancient Jewish teachingfrom a work called like the
ethics of our fathers, per kevot, and it's like a series of like
nuggets of wisdom, essentiallyin an oversimplicated,
simplified way.
But one of them is it says canI like a very it's it's by
yourself a friend?
And I think at first it's likea little jarring to us, like
(30:05):
what do you mean?
Like you're buying friends orbribing friends.
But then, in like theexplanation of the teaching, it
says no, you do actually buyfriends by like giving them
gifts and giving them hugs andlistening to them and taking
them out to a meal, and yourability to build friendships via
service, I think, speaks tothat as well.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It's so beautiful.
Absolutely, I like that.
I never really thought about itthat way, but that makes total
sense to me.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Do you mind just going back a little bit and
speaking more about how you're?
I know you said that yourparents, like, took you to do
these, these service trips, andyou know giving charity and
giving your time to others.
Can you speak to how you feltabout doing that as a kid, if it
inspired you, if you felt likeyour parents were dragging you
along to it?
How was that?
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
At first I do think it felt like oh, you know, I
have to go and do this with myfamily especially as a younger
kid.
You know, I didn't really quiteunderstand it like how old.
Yeah, it's hard for kids toespecially young kids like I
don't know, maybe six, seven,eight to really connect with
older people, sometimesespecially if they're not your
(31:15):
family, and so I had a hard timeconnecting.
But after I was in high schoolI started going to the nursing
home by myself and going to keepvisiting, even without my
parents, and I think, as Istarted to just talk to these
people, they have really coolstories they have.
They have seen so much in theirlifetime and there's just a lot
(31:39):
you can learn from them.
Same thing with working withkids at.
We worked with some kids at theNavajo Nation reservation and
those kids were amazing.
You know, they had so manythings to tell, so many
different life perspectives thanthan we have, and so learning
from them and just beinggrateful for the things that I
(31:59):
have and learning newperspectives on things was just
amazing.
So where it first felt likework and it soon turned into
just a passion for just learningand being around people that
were different than me, Can youthink of like a moment or tell a
story about when thattransition kind of took place
and it started to resonate withyou?
(32:20):
Yeah, I think.
So.
There was one woman and Icouldn't even tell you her name,
but when I was in high schooland going by myself and with
other people from my church thatwere young people, we would go
and we would visit and she wasreally mean and nobody really
wanted to go and visit with her.
The nurses had a hard time withher.
She just was really mean and Idon't know if this is because
(32:41):
she had other issues or I don'tknow.
I don't know if she was just agrumpy person, but I really
wanted to give her a chance andso I continued to visit with her
and I realized one day shethought I was her daughter and
so she was being really sweet tome and I guess she had some
(33:01):
dementia or Alzheimer's and shewas just being really nice to me
and I think at that moment Iwas like wow, like just being
here for her for just a moment.
She thinks that her daughter ishere and she's having a really
good visit with her.
So I'm not going to take thataway from her.
Like, and after that, you know,I moved away, I went to college
(33:22):
and I continued to go to nursinghomes.
Even when I was in college.
People my age don't do that.
That's weird.
That's a really strange way tospend your free time, but I
loved it.
I love older people.
I love the stories that theyhave to tell and just the
perspectives that they have.
Like I love history that theycan share.
They've lived through so manythings that I only read about in
(33:45):
books.
So to get to hear those storiesfrom them and just the smiles
that they get when they tell astory about you know that
president, or that moment intime like you, can really learn
so much from them.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
It's more than that, because it's also just just what
I hear about everything thatyou're saying the common
denominator is being is justconnecting with human beings on
like a deep and meaningful level, right Like through the stories
they tell.
I think that and I think that Idon't know, I'm just having a
little bit of an epiphany herefor you and I could be
(34:19):
absolutely wrong but I'm likejust seems like everything that
you have done right thetriathlons, all the training,
the volunteering, all of thosethings really boil down to you
providing opportunity for you toconnect with other human beings
.
And when it started to go awrywas when you really weren't
doing that as a triathlete.
(34:39):
You were, you were rightbecause you were sort of so
focused on on your numbers, onyour, on your races.
So it's really, it's just soincredible to hear this, this
story, how it, because it justsounds like it's such a
meaningful thing for you.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
That spot on.
I never really made thatconnection.
But, yes, connections are soimportant to me, and especially
connections with people whomaybe don't always get the
connections that they deserve.
So, whether that's people inthe disability community, people
who you know areunderprivileged in the community
, people who are ignored in theassisted living, like people
(35:18):
that deserve more connectionthan they're getting, that's
what I want.
I want those people to havemore connections.
And so I know I can't changethe world, like I'm just one
person, but I can try.
I can try to do a little bithere and there.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
You're not trying, you're doing.
I say that to people all thetime you are in it.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
I, I like, firmly, firmly disagree that you can't
change the world.
Because when people say thatthey, they fail to acknowledge
that you are part of the world,like if you are changing through
the work you're doing, that isinherently changing the world.
That's the only way thingshappen.
You know, shayan, I don't knowhow many times you you told your
story and I understand likethinking of this area of your
(35:59):
life as like the selfish era,but it really feels like you.
you know, you started life as akid and every kid, to a degree,
has to be a taker of some kindbecause they're kids you know,
and, and hopefully their, theirparents, guardians, mentors,
whomever are are inspiring themto transition or being takers to
being receivers, and a receiveris a taker that has a level of
(36:19):
gratitude which is, in turn,giving back to the giver.
And as we get older, I thinkthe people who live the most
meaningful lives are the peoplewho know how to be both givers
and receivers.
And I have to imagine in yourrecovery from your injury, you
both relearned how to be areceiver instead of a taker and,
(36:40):
in turn, became a giver.
In the work you're doing,you're continuing to be a giver
and I think that helps youresonate with with being your
best self.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, I agree Um it's well said.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
So now that we kind of you know, spoke about a
little bit of your, your lifetrajectory, can you, can you,
speak a little bit more aboutwhat's it like to be a guide?
How'd you get there, what are,what are the races like, and
maybe some of the connectionsyou've made in the community?
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Absolutely so.
Um, and and Kim knows a littlebetter than I do, Well, she
knows about the same as I dothat the, the blind and guide
community is fairly small, andso we have, you know, these,
these Facebook groups, or wehave kind of word of mouth,
where you know you can raiseyour hand and say I'd love to be
a guide for this race, Wouldanybody like to do it with me?
(37:27):
And athletes who are blind cancan say, oh, you should
definitely do this race withthat person, or?
Speaker 3 (37:32):
no, don't race with that person, Wait why do they
say not to race with someone?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Well, I mean, there's different reasons why you might
not want to race, Like there'sthere's preferences, right?
Well, so, like I love to talk,I am a big time chatter.
And some people don't like that.
When they're racing with a guy,they want somebody to just be
very quiet and focused.
So they may say hey, I don'tthink Cheyenne's the best match
for you, because you talk a lot,but it's like, almost like a
(38:00):
guide dog.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You know what I'm saying.
Like because there'spersonality.
What Cheyenne's pointing to is,like you know, just, in any any
relationship, dynamic, right,personality is a factor, right,
and so there definitely needs tobe some level of meshing,
because you are, first of all,there's a tremendous amount
Cheyenne, you know this as aguide of trust, not just from
(38:23):
the athlete to the guide, butalso from the guide to the
athlete, and so yeah, so I thinkthat there's a couple, there's
a bunch of different componentsaround, like maybe this wouldn't
be a good fit, but keep, keepgoing, cheyenne.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, just by kind of consulting the community, you
can figure out is this going tobe a good match for me, Is this
going to be a good race for me?
And you know some guides andathletes are willing to travel
to meet their partner, some arenot, and so that's kind of the
way that you figure things out.
But I started running as aguide first and would run with
athletes, but then a woman namedAshley Eisenminger out of
(38:59):
Illinois, she asked her friend.
Yeah, she asked if I would beinterested in guiding her for a
triathlon.
But this was before I had evergotten on a tandem bike.
I didn't know anything abouttandem cycling, and so I had to
essentially learn how to pilot atandem bike so that we could go
to the national championshipsfor para triathlon.
And so this is when the worldof para tri just came into my
(39:23):
life and I remembered how much Ilove to do swim, bike and run.
But now I get to add in thecomponent of having somebody by
my side the whole time, and Iwas so ready.
So from there I learned how topilot a tandem bike.
I was terrible at first, but Igot better at it and now it's my
favorite thing in the world.
And yeah, just things just kindof snowballed from there.
(39:44):
I started meeting other peoplewho wanted to have a guide.
I started doing races withdifferent people around the
country.
I eventually graduated to thehalf Ironman distance Wow and
did several of those.
And then that's when I metKathy.
Kathy is a woman from NewJersey.
(40:04):
She is deafblind and usesAmerican Sign Language as her
primary form of communication,and I was learning ASL at the
time.
And so she sent me an email andsaid hey, I heard that you're a
guide who knows how to sign.
Would you be interested inracing with me?
And I was like I don't knowthat much sign language but I'm
(40:24):
trying and if you're patientthen maybe we can make this work
.
So she flew down to Texas.
We did a half marathon together.
It was awesome and she was sopatient and she taught me more
signs and I was still in school,learning as much as I could,
and from there she and I havedone three half Ironman since
then and we're planning to do afull Ironman in October.
(40:46):
So I love that now and now,because of her and because of my
schooling, I have a whole newlanguage that I can utilize.
If people are deaf or hard ofhearing, I can still communicate
with them.
We can still race together in asafe and fun way.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Oh, my goodness For people who don't know how far
are the distances of an Ironman?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Sure.
So full Ironman is 2.4 milesswim, 112 mile bike or 26.2 mile
run, which is a marathon.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
So you swim 2.4 miles , you bike 112 miles, which is
like already, and then you'llrun a marathon.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Exactly, and I'll let you guys in on a little secret.
Well, not so much of a secret.
I'm doing two this year.
Oh my goodness as a guy who areyou doing with the first?
One is with Randy Strunk, whois from Minneapolis.
We're doing Chattanooga, andthat one is actually a 116 mile
bike.
So four more because why not?
(41:48):
Yeah, why not?
And then the other one isCalifornia, with Kathy in
October.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Hell yeah, I'm not supposed to help.
Oh my goodness, oh my gosh,people are going to get sick of
listening to this episodebecause I'm just I'm so grateful
for you.
I just I'm so grateful for youand I'm so great.
I'm just on behalf of my whole,all my people, as I say, and
(42:16):
Ashley is.
You know, this community issmall, jacob, you know what I'm
saying and you just you just endup meeting, oh, have you met
this person or have you met thatperson?
You just speak.
I never even met Ashley, but wetalk on the phone for hours all
the time.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So it's like and it's yeah, so it's funny too,
because it's like, oh no, we'venever met, but they're doing.
They're doing this race thatI'm doing, or we went to the
same guide dog school, orsomething like that you know how
.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
How do you?
I can understand how to guidesomeone on a tandem bike.
That makes some sense to me aslike as a pilot, but how do you
guide someone in the swim or inthe run?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah, so in the swim you have a tether that's
attached either to your waist,to your thigh or both.
I think some use a tetherthat's connected to their ankle.
I've not tried that one yet howlong is?
It.
It's you know, I should knowthis, Not that it's not super
long.
I got full.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Yeah, oh yeah, it's, it's.
So you're really close by.
Yeah, you're close.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
It's a bungee material.
So if they feel the the tethergetting tight, they know they're
going the wrong way and if theybump into you, they know.
Okay, my guide's still there.
So I will tell you.
There was one time when we werein Ironman, alaska.
The water was 56 degrees, we'rein a full wetsuit booties,
neoprene cap, everything and thetether slipped off my leg
(43:38):
because I couldn't feel my legs,I didn't know that it was off
me, and so all I hear is Randyscreaming shy and and she got
the tether waving in the air.
So I was like, oh there's,there's Randy.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Oh my gosh, that sounds.
That sounds Terrifying.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Well, it's pretty scary.
So you have to.
When you breathe, you want tosight and make sure that your
partner is right next to you.
So that's what I do when I'mbreathing I just take a second,
make sure my partner's stillthere, make sure I'm not too far
ahead or too far behind, and,yeah, that's how you stay
together in the swim.
You don't have to communicatemuch in the water.
(44:14):
Obviously, there's no realtalking.
If you need to make a turn, youcan either tap or you can just
bump into your partner untilthey turn around the buoy.
With Kathy, we have a couple ofsigns that we use for start,
stop, emergency, that kind ofthing.
And then when I grab her on theshoulder, she knows it's time
to stand up.
We're done.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I want to ask it's a little bit different than what
we've been talking about, but Ithink it's just curious if we
could sort of go down thisdirection a little bit is when
you started talking about yourexperience in high school and
you were like I was countingcalories and I was really
focused on these very sort oflike you know how many miles
have I run?
Or like maybe what do I looklike?
Those kinds of things.
Do you feel like that stillhappens for you?
Speaker 2 (45:02):
In a way yes and no.
So I have had body dysmorphiaever since I was in high school.
I'm not a big person by anymeans, but I'm kind of midsize
and I see myself as much largerthan I actually am.
I'm not a small person and I'vealways been rather tall and
(45:23):
just kind of, you know, muscular, and so that to me always
equated to being fat, and so Ialways felt like the biggest
girl on my cross country team,because most girls that run are
a lot smaller than me.
They look differently you knowI've got these big legs because
I cycle so much and those biglegs are not necessarily equated
(45:45):
to a strong runner or a strongswimmer.
So, yeah, I've always had thisbody dysmorphia, and it got
exacerbated after my accidentbecause I went into the hospital
being the smallest that everever been in my life and now
they're pumping me full offluids.
I'm not able to exercise, I'meating just a bunch of junk food
(46:08):
and gaining weight, and that'sall I could think about was I'll
never be as small as I used tobe, I'll never be back to as
fast as I was.
You know I'm never going toreturn to that.
And so for a long time itreally, really got to me and I
would.
You know I'd be lying if I saidthat I don't still think about
(46:31):
myself in that way.
But when pictures are posted ofme doing a race as a guide, I'm
looking less at the way my bodylooks and more at the smile on
my face and the smile on theface of my partner, like I'm
thinking to myself, wow, like,look at this thing that we just
(46:53):
did, look at what our bodieswere able to make us do.
Like I'm not thinking aboutwhat I look like, but more like
how my body can perform.
And I think, too, I have areally special perspective
because a lot of the people thatI hang out with, a lot of my
friends, a lot of my racingpartners, are blind or low
(47:15):
vision and when they see me,they don't see what I look like.
They don't see that I think I'mfat or I'm having a bad hair
day or whatever.
Like all they see is how I makethem feel and how I train them.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I was thinking the same thing, Kim.
I was thinking it's like somuch.
You know spirit work, soul work, you know when people say like.
The word psyche is oftentranslated as mind, but it also
means like spirit or soul.
Yeah, and that's what makesconnections with people.
Is that spirit or psyche?
(47:49):
And Cheyenne, that's what itseems like is resonating with
the people you run with.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, To me like it's like the before and after my
accident, how I was alwaysfocused on what I looked like
and what I performed like, andnow it's more about like what
can I do for other people?
And that has come back to me inmy.
You know, I still have my dayswhere I'm not pleased with how I
look, but then I go and dosomething and I'm like, wow,
(48:17):
like my body was able to carryme through that amount of miles
or that activity that I just did, or I just I don't know, I, I,
or even just participate in thisexperience with this person.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
I just had the deepest and hardest laugh I've
had all week.
You know it's.
But you know, look, as a woman,you know, jacob, you you can't
relate to this, but you, youknow, you've grown up around
women, you know it's.
I think it's important to saythat that it is, I think, a
struggle for women just ingeneral.
You know, like, you know,comparing yourself to other
(48:53):
people, and what do I look likeand do I look?
Do I look good enough?
All of these things, and I thinkthat for many women, that is
that can be something that theyexperience like the good part of
the, the better part of theirlife.
And so for you to be where youare with it, when you, you can
actually look at a photographand go I'm, I'm going to look at
(49:15):
how big my smile is and how bigmy, my partner's smile is, and
like I think that's tremendousand I think that's actually I
mean, we don't do a lot, I don'tknow, I guess we do do advice
giving, but I just think that'san important thing to just put
out there of like here's, here'show I am able to make peace in
(49:38):
these very like tangible wayswith I mean, look, how many
times do you?
Oh, do take the picture, like,oh, I got to see the picture.
I don't you know.
I say to people all the timeone of the biggest blessings for
me has been going blind becauseI can't see myself, can't see
myself, I can't.
I don't go into a yoga studioand do a yoga class and compare
myself to any other women Iwould have 10 years ago.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Well, at least you can't see yourself in it in a
superficial way, right?
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Exactly, and so it allows for the space for for you
, for me, to be able to, likeyou know, connect deeply or like
, feel somebody for, like whothey are as a person, and I
think you, you're, I thinkyou're, you're, you're there,
you know, you're doing it,you're doing the work, the
deeper work.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, that's really.
(50:24):
I'm so glad you were, you werewilling to talk on that.
Yeah, absolutely, sometimes itcould be a tough topic, you know
.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
Shayne, do you think in growing and in like giving to
others, you've developed skillsand giving to yourself in a
healthy way.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
That's a good question.
Um, you know, I was in therapya few years ago and my therapist
she's awesome.
She would help me choose a wordthat would be my word to focus
on that year.
And, uh, one year I choseservice and that was easy, you
know.
I got to do a lot of activitiesand serve the community in
(51:01):
different ways and then the nextyear I chose self, because
there was an imbalance in theamount of time I was doing
things for other people and theamount of times I was doing
things for myself.
And I still struggle with thatbalance.
Like, I would love to helpsomeone every weekend, I would
love to go and race as a guideevery weekend, I would love to
go and serve at a nonprofitevery weekend, but I do need
(51:25):
time for myself to recharge.
You can't fill your cup, yeah,or what is it?
You can't fill up someone's cupif your cup is empty.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah, that's exactly what the expression I was
thinking.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
I just I don't, um, I don't like to think that doing
things for other people drainsme, because I don't think it
does.
I like to do things for otherpeople, but sometimes I just
need time to myself, and I don'talways do that.
So that's something I'm reallyworking on is just scheduling
time for myself, scheduling timefor my fiance and I to have our
(51:57):
own time, like the, and justrest.
Rest is so important.
I would love to just go, go, goevery day, but realistically
that's not going to work.
I have to rest, and soscheduling that time and just
making myself rest and do thingsthat I like to do that don't
involve triathlon is veryimportant.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
That's it.
It's to find that harmonybetween um to move away from
selfishness, which is liketaking to be self-full, Like I'm
filling myself up for the sakeof myself and others, and that's
such a hard harmony to strike.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
Um, shannon, you're just wondering if you wanted to
share any final thoughts oranything, maybe.
Perhaps we didn't speak aboutthat you're hoping to touch on?
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Sure, there's this group of women um, three of them
are blind or low vision, andthen there's me, and we came
together to create anorganization called blind fury,
and what we did was, last year,we raced together as a relay, so
one did the swim, one did thebike, one did the run and I
guided all three of them, and sowe were the first in history to
(53:02):
do this at an Ironman half uh,sorry, at a half Ironman
distance race.
So ever since then, this blindfury group has kind of blown up,
and now we're doing more in thecommunity uh, to, yeah, to to
inspire more people and equipmore people with the resources,
(53:22):
the volunteers, the equipmentthat they need to be able to
compete in sports, especially ifthey're blind or low vision.
So, um, ever since we had ourhistorical event back in April
of 2023, we started hostingguide clinics so that we could
teach more athletes to becomeguides for athletes who are
(53:43):
blind or low vision, and sosince then, we've hosted three
different clinics in threedifferent cities and we've got
even more on the books.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
Yeah, what's what's it is.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
We did Dallas, we did Fort Worth and we did Galveston
, Texas.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
When are you um?
When are you going to do Philly?
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Hey, I'm ready.
I'm ready to go to Philly rightnow.
Okay, great.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Let's broad, let's broaden that reach.
Oh, that's this is.
This is just.
It just gives them the chillsall over.
Um, I remember, I rememberseeing this all over your social
media.
I commented every single time Icould I just love, love, love
the mission, love what you guysare doing.
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
It's so much fun and to get to do it with my friends.
And then my fiance is alsohelping out.
He already, before we even met,had a nonprofit for people with
disabilities, and then we metand so it all just kind of came
together and now we're teachingclinics, we're helping send
tethers to people who want tolearn how to run with a guide,
we're sending all kinds ofresources to them.
(54:45):
So this is just something Ireally believe in and want to
continue to grow until we canhave a clinic in every major
city in the United States.
So that's just a big dream ofmine.
Um, and with the help of myfriends and my fiance, like
we're, we're going to try ourbest to change the world, if we
can.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Well, you're doing it , you're doing it, you're doing
it, girl.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Shane, how do people get involved?
If they, if they'd like or Idon't know if you accept like
donations, how can people helpcontribute to what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (55:14):
Yeah, so, um, if you want to follow us on Instagram,
we have a couple of different uhpages so you can follow tribe,
t, r Y B E, underscore adaptive.
Okay, um, also, you can followuh blind fury burning barriers
on Instagram or Facebook and umthe tribe page.
(55:34):
There should be a link ifanybody wants to donate to our
mission to help host moreclinics and um have the
equipment needed for um each ofthe little clinics that we put
on, that's awesome.
We're going to put all of thatstuff in our show notes?
Speaker 1 (55:48):
Okay, absolutely Okay .
Speaker 2 (55:51):
Um, yeah, I can send you the links, uh, specifically
to our PayPal as well, if you'dlike.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
Oh yeah, that'd be wonderful.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
Um well, I think that kind of wraps up for today,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Yeah, thank you, thank you so much, thank you all
.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
This was awesome.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
Yeah.
And we can't wait to.
Speaker 3 (56:07):
We can't wait to publish this?
That's right.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
So excited.
Speaker 3 (56:12):
We want to thank you so much for listening to today's
episode.
If anything in today's episodespoke to you, please like
subscribe rate and review.
Also, don't forget to sharethis podcast with friends and
family.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
And if there's anybody that you know that you
think would be a great guest onintuitive choices, please email
us atintuitivechoicespodcastgmailcom.
Finally, if you want to knowmore about our mental health
practice, intuitive counselingand wellness, please check us
out atintuitivecounselingofphillycom.
Hey everybody, I'm Kimberly Dobbs.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
And I'm Jacob Miller.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
And we'd like to welcome you to another episode
of Intuitive Choices.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Kim and I are mental health therapists working in
Philadelphia.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Each week, we invite a guest to speak about how their
own intuitive choices have ledthem to live a more meaningful
life.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
We hope that this conversation encourages you to
make meaningful choices in yourown life.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Alright, off we go.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Today we are so thrilled to have with us
Cheyenne Meyer.
She is somebody that I had theprivilege of meeting a couple of
years ago Because, for thosepeople who are listening who
don't know this about me, Iparticipate in para sports and
(00:52):
what that really stands for?
Para stands for parallel, whichis essentially an entire
community for people toparticipate in athleticism if
you are a person withdisabilities or differences, as
I like to say, and I, sarah,dippinously, came across
Cheyenne a couple of years agoat a race, actually a cycling
(01:15):
event where she was the teammateof a blind athlete that I
happened to be competing against, and ever since then she and I
kept in touch and I didn't knowmuch about her story, but I knew
enough about it that I justknew it was important to tell,
and so she agreed to come on andspeak with Jacob and I to tell
(01:40):
her story, and so I'm so excitedto welcome you, cheyenne, to
have this awesome conversationwith Jacob, and I so welcome.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
We're so grateful you're able to join us.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah you have no idea .
So why don't we?
Why don't we start out withjust tell us a little bit about
your personal story on and yourrelationship with sports and
athletics, not so much theparasite of it, but your story.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Sure.
So when I was in high school Iwas not really good at any
sports I was.
I couldn't catch, I couldn'tthrow, couldn't kick, so there
were not a lot of sports thatwere good for me.
And so that's when I foundrunning, and so I knew you
couldn't really mess up running,you just run.
And so I ran cross country andtrack and high school for a
(02:33):
couple of years and I ended upgetting a athletic and academic
scholarship to run cross countryand college.
So I ran division to crosscountry and track for three
years before I graduated andthen went on to grad school.
When I got to grad school my dadbought me a bike so I could
commute around my college and Ifigured if I could just learn
how to swim then I could do atriathlon.
So I joined the triathlon team.
(02:56):
I started learning how to swimand then I started competing in
triathlons, which is a swim,bike and run race, and I
absolutely loved it.
I found out that I was actuallypretty good at cycling and I
could use my talents andcontinued to win my age group in
certain races.
Then I started competing andwinning entire races and so I
(03:17):
found that triathlon was reallythe sport for me.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Shane, could you explain what a triathlon is or
how a triathlon works, like thedistances, like what's involved?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Sure.
So a triathlon is any race thathas a component of swimming,
biking and running.
So you can go anywhere from asprint distance, which is
probably 500 yards, swim, 13mile bike and then a 5K run.
You can have an aqua bike,which is just the swimming and
the biking.
You can do an aqua thawne,which is the swimming and the
(03:47):
running.
Or you can do a duathlon, whichis run, bike, run.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Wow, okay, and what were the distances you were
competing when you were incollege and post college?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Like in your prime.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh, when I was in my prime, I would do sprint and
Olympic distance.
So a big distance would be 1500yards swim, a 40K bike and then
a 10K run.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I've actually done two sprint triathlons and I
honestly thought I was going todie after the 400 meter swim and
after my second one.
I don't even know why I did thesecond one, because the first
one was so hard, but I think itwould take a lot to get me back
in the water.
So I'm very impressed witheverything that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Honestly, sprints are so hard In fact they're like
the hardest one there is in myopinion, like I've been doing
Ironman so long and Ironman is Iknow this doesn't sound right,
but it's easier.
Right, because it's slow andit's like you can spend all day
doing it right, like you've gottime.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, now I got it.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You don't have to like hustle.
You know you can just kind oftake your time, Whereas a sprint
you don't have a moment to likegrab a thing of water, Like you
have to go.
There's just like no time towaste, and so you're going like
balls to the wall.
That's right Like full time, soI totally get it.
Sprints hurt.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I want to ask you a quick, I just want to back up
really quickly.
So it sounds like you had likea gravitational pull toward
sports in general when you wereyounger and it was just finding
the right one for you, becausesome people just don't have that
pull at all.
But it sounds like you did,despite, like you're saying, not
necessarily being particularlydoing it well per se.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, I always wanted to be sporty.
You know, I was a smart kid andI was good at academics and I
was involved in theater, but Iwanted to be good at a sport.
I really wanted to be sportysomehow and I wanted to continue
to be healthy.
You know, they they say you'regoing to gain the freshman 15
when you go to college and Ididn't want that.
I wanted to remain healthy andkeep up my you know, physical
(06:00):
fitness as much as I could, butin a way that was enjoyable to
me.
And other sports because Iwasn't any good at them, they
just weren't enjoyable to me,yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, you know it.
Really I didn't realize thefirst time we had like chatted
prior to the podcast, that youhad been in division two sports
and I think that's like the mostdifficult division to be a part
of.
I was a division three athlete,which I loved because it's like
all the fun of the sport andnone of the obligation so much
and none of the like obligationthat's like linked to your
academics, let's say, or like ascholarships on the line,
(06:29):
anything like that.
Division one it seems like allabout the athletics, less about
the academics, not for everyone,but it seems like that.
For division two it's like youhave the obligations of a
division one athlete but itdoesn't seem to get the same
perks as a Division I athlete.
Does that resonate with you ordo I have a false perception?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
No, that totally makes sense to me.
That's spot on, oh interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
So, how did you gravitate to Division II sports
as opposed to like one or three?
It's like a hard middle groundto be a part of.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Sure, so I definitely wasn't good enough for one.
I was middle to the back of thepack on my very best day, but I
got my scholarship in academicsand athletics so I was able to
join the team, kind of on apromise of you know my potential
, and then just continue toimprove from there.
(07:23):
I also was the editor of theschool paper when I was in
college, so it was nice to havethat also that side of things,
so that I could write storiesabout our cross-country meets
and our track meets and give ourteam the recognition that they
sometimes didn't always get.
Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
That's a you know.
It speaks to you as atriathlete almost is that even
in the sport you're doing it'smultifaceted.
You know there's three phases,very different systems.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, so true.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And in your life itself you kind of carry that
ethos into your academic work,your athletic work and, I'm sure
, many other spheres.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
No, I love that observation, Jake.
Yeah, so going back to college,right and finding triathlons,
okay, and you're like, oh, Istarted riding bikes and then at
the swimming, and then whatended up like did you at some
point want to take your journeyas an athlete past college and
(08:25):
continue to compete, maybe youknow, in maybe larger level, on
a higher level?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Absolutely yeah.
When I won my first race, Iknew that this was the sport I
wanted to continue in.
And then when I started winningmoney at races you know I
wasn't always winning, but if Iwas on the top three of the
podium then I would win, youknow, some money and so I was
thinking, wow, this is somethingI'd really like to pursue.
I don't know if I'm likeOlympic level, but I'd like to
(08:53):
at least try to continue tocompete in this sport, and one
way that you can do that is tocompete at the age group
national championships for theUSA triathlon.
And so when I won my first race, I qualified for the age group
national championships and I wasgetting ready to go to that
event.
And actually the Monday beforeI was supposed to go to the
(09:16):
national championships tocompete against the best
competitors in my age group iswhen the thing happened that
completely changed my life, andI think that's something that
we're going to be talking abouttoday.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
How did you let us know a little bit about what
that, what that thing was?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Absolutely so.
On the Tuesday before the bigrace you're supposed to take
your bike over to the local bikeshop that will ship your bike
to the race site, and so I wasgetting ready to do my last bike
ride before I would ship mybike off.
And so it was a Mondayafternoon, it was hot.
I was just going to do a quicktwo hour bike ride and then take
(09:52):
my bike and get ready to get itshipped.
So as I was riding my bike onthat Monday, it was really hot I
was getting ready to do just aquick two hour ride and then get
ready to ship my bike off.
And as I was riding, I wasgoing to turn back around, and
when I made my U turn I was hitby a car on my left side.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
So immediately upon impact I was thrown from my bike
and thrown onto the shoulder ofthe road.
I broke my pelvis in sevenplaces.
I broke my sternum, my sacrumon both sides, two ribs and my
left shoulder.
I suffered a brain contusionand I also got a huge chunk of
glass stuck into my left arm.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Oh my God, were you aware of what was happening as
it was happening?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Honestly no, I think I was conscious the whole time
but my brain just kind of shutoff and had blocked that car.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So you remember, like you remember getting hit or you
remember people telling youwhat happened.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I don't remember getting hit.
I don't remember the next, like20 minutes at all.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
You had no idea that this car was next to you when
you were about to turn.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I don't remember any of that.
I couldn't tell you what thecar looked like.
Any of that?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So in your in like the way you perceived the event
you were riding your bike, andthen when did you come to?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I finally.
Well, I hear from differentpeople that I was awake and then
I would go in and out ofconsciousness and I would talk
to people.
I was talking to the nurses inthe life light helicopter when
they came to pick me up.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Wow, so you were a helicopter to the hospital.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I was.
It was rush hour in Houston andI needed the highest level of
care and to get downtown itwould have taken hours and I was
bleeding internally.
So I needed to get downtownquickly, and so in the
helicopter it only took 13minutes to get downtown.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
That's a long, 13 minutes, yeah.
It really was.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Were you alone or was any?
Were you with any family?
So poor?
Was it just?
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
It was just me.
Luckily I had my road IDemergency bracelet on, so the
EMTs were able to call thepeople on my emergency bracelet
and let them know what was goingon.
But with life light helicopterpatients, especially women, they
give you an alias.
So when you get to the hospitalmy family was asking we're
(12:08):
looking for Cheyenne.
And they said we don't have aCheyenne here, but they had
given me some other name.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Why.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
What's so yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So I guess if a woman has suffered trauma, you know,
sometimes they can't protect herfrom the person.
Maybe that caused the trauma,and so they give them an alias.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
That's really interesting Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
So, yeah, so I don't remember being alert or talking
during the hospital or duringthe helicopter travel.
However, people were sayingthat I was talking to them, you
know, saying things that reallydidn't make sense.
I was a real head injury victimbecause I was just saying the
same things over and over, whichwas how's my bike?
(12:52):
Where's my bike?
That's what a cyclist dowhenever we get into an accident
.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
For people who don't know so much about cycling or
triathlon.
Can you give people a senselike, how much does the bike
cost, or the wheels or theprocess involved?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Oh my gosh, my bike.
I was still paying my bike offthat I got hit on.
It was a huge deal.
Thousands of dollars go intotriathlon for the best gear, the
best bike, the best wheels andall the other things that go
into it.
So I was really concerned aboutmy bike, more than myself.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
So let me I just want to circle back here.
So how old were you when thisaccident happened?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Let's see, it was 2016.
Okay, so seven years ago Iwould have been 23.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
So at 23, you're about to compete in a national
championship, first time as atriathlete, and you get into
this accident and with all ofthis idea that you would it
sounds like you wanted to pursuethis professionally right Like
(14:04):
to see how, really, how far youcould take it, and then, like in
the in the blink of an eye,your whole life just just goes
into a completely differentdirection.
And so when did you, do youremember the moment of, like,
waking up in the hospital?
Like that moment that you, likethat everything's came together
(14:24):
.
You're like, oh my God, likethis is like what just happened
in my life, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Did you have that moment?
Yeah, I remember.
I remember waking up in thehospital it must have been two
or three days later and wakingup and seeing that I was in a
hospital bed and just freakingout like well, okay, I'm going
to be able to get out Right, I'mgoing to still be able to do my
race, right.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Are you still thinking about the actual race?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, yeah, I remember lifting up the covers
because I was trying to figureout like what on me is hurt,
because I can't tell.
I'm on so many drugs that I'mnot feeling anything.
But I lift up the covers and Isee like all these wraps and
stitches and bandages and I'mlike, oh wow, like this is not
good, that's a bummer, that'sall I could think about.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Oh my God.
And who was communicating withyou in and around that time.
That was saying to you likehere's the situation, this is
serious, like what was, likethat process, like when you
started to really realize whathappened, what really happened
to your body, what this mightlook like for your life.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It was a real.
It was a real confusing timebecause of my head injury.
I was having to ask the samequestions over and over and be
told the same thing over andover again, and I know it broke
my parents' heart.
Every time I had to ask themwell, what's going on?
What happened?
Am I going to be able to race?
Am I going to be able to walk?
Like?
And I would forget, because thehead injury was so fresh that
(15:56):
it just I kept asking thosequestions and so, yeah, it was a
really confusing time justtrying to wrap my head around it
, and when I finally did graspit, then I would forget again.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Cheyenne.
This may be a strange questionand but in the things you're
describing, I can't help butthink about something called the
extended mind thesis, which iswhich is that our consciousness,
or, like our sense of self,flows into the tools we use most
regularly.
So when we're using a tool thatfeels like a part of us, that
(16:29):
it goes from being a tool tobeing us.
So, like often, we feel likeour clothes are us.
Sometimes people are attachedto, like their cars, and they
feel like you know, their car isthem.
Certainly, people's cell phonesfeel like a part of them.
They get anxious when, like,the batteries start to die.
It sounds like your selfhoodwas like not only linked to your
actual bike but to your limbsas tools and then also to your
(16:52):
identity as a triathlete.
Having those things taken awayfrom you so rapidly, I have to
imagine was was violentlyalienating.
Having those that experience beso alienating, where did you
find yourself after those thingswere taken away?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
That's a really good question and the answer is I had
no clue who I was without thosetools the tools of my body
being like a tool that I coulduse to compete without my bike.
Like I felt completely lostBefore my accident.
I kind of think I was a bit ofa jerk.
I was very self-centered.
(17:33):
Triathlon became an obsessionfor me because it was something
I was finally a sport I was goodat, and I just held on to that
super tightly and so I wouldwake up at four in the morning,
I would go to bed at 10 and Iwould do it all over again,
workout twice a day.
I was obsessed with numbers andcalories and percentages.
(17:54):
I mean I would.
I would track other people'sperformances and races to see if
I could beat them on race day.
Like it became a real obsession.
So when I got to the hospitaland I realized like I'm not
going to be racing anytime soon,I was like what in the world am
I going to do instead?
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Wow, how do you think you?
I have hard trouble believingthat you were a jerk, so I'm
just going to use your own wordshere.
In that, in that state of being, like, obsessed with the sport,
how do you think you got there?
And do you know why?
Maybe you got to that level ofobsession?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I think it was just because I wanted so badly to be
good at something other thanacademics.
I wanted to be known forsomething other than my ability
to write, my ability to speakand, you know, being good at
school subjects.
Like I wanted to be athleticand when I finally found that
thing that I could go, I couldwin and people would, you know,
(18:51):
praise me for being good atwinning.
Or, you know, I would show upto a race and people would say,
hey, Cheyenne, are you going towin today?
Like that made me feel awesomebecause I was finally really
good at a sport where I couldshow up and I could be the
winner, and so that's.
I think that's really wherethat obsession came from.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Why do you think that was so important to you to be
the winner?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I love the attention.
I love people being proud of mefor something other than my you
know, my knowledge.
I love just everybody lookingat me and thinking that I'm, you
know, such a cool and awesomeperson because I'm winning races
or running fast times.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
How did you feel that transition start to take place
of becoming the Cheyenne postaccident?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I woke up and I said, man, like things need to change
right now, because theprioritization of things in my
life is completely wrong.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
So you knew that in an instant.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Oh, absolutely.
I was like I am a jerk and thisis terrible.
And I need to apologize to thisperson, this person, this
person Like I need to startfixing things right now.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Did you feel a sense of that before the accident?
I can't imagine and it couldhappen so fast unless you had
already been contemplating thosethings.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Oh, I knew I was a jerk before my accident.
I guess I just didn't take anysteps to fix it, and this was
that wake up call that I needed.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So that's how did you see?
This is.
What's so interesting is thatit's almost as if you you were
able to see pretty quickly afterwaking up from the accident
that that that was the wake upcall around, like shifting your
priorities, not in this, likeeverything happens for a reason,
kind of way I don't I don'tnecessarily subscribe to that
(20:42):
but that you were able to makethis connection between I have
to make some serious changes andthis is this, is the.
This is going to helpfacilitate those deeper changes
in me.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, I think I thought that I would start
making those changes after mybig race, after my big race was
over.
Then I could focus on differentthings or I could take some
time off, you know, and I wasjust waiting and waiting and
waiting until that moment, butthis was just the universe
telling me, you know, it's timefor us to fix these things now,
and I think that's one reallygreat thing that has happened.
(21:17):
A lot of great things havehappened out of this incident in
my life, but that's one of thebiggest things is that it showed
me that it's not all about meand that family and friends need
to take higher priority in yourlife over any obsessions that
you have.
You know, any hobbies that youtake part of, like, those things
can't come before the peoplethat matter to you most.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I'm just taking a moment.
I'm really touched by what yousaid and how you said it.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, I remember before the accident, when I was
so wrapped up in triathlon andcompeting and doing all my
training, my family would notget the time of day for me.
My partner at the time wasgetting pushed to the back
burner.
My friends, they just weren'tgetting the real Cheyenne, they
weren't getting quality timewith me because I'm sorry, I'm
(22:11):
too busy, I've got to go train,I've got to go do this, I've got
to go study the course orwhatever I had to do.
And so that was just a hugewake up call for me Like no,
these people, these are mybiggest supporters and they
deserve better.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
It almost sounds like you also weren't getting the
full you.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
I think so.
Yeah, I think I was wrapped upin this identity of triathlete
and losing out on all the otherthings that make me me.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
So, speaking of like the things that make you you,
how did you then transition orbegin to work with the para
community or involve yourselfwith people who are in the para
community?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah.
So when I was at a triathlonpretty early in my triathlon
days, I saw an athlete competingwho was blind and he had a
guide with him, and his guidewas actually somebody that I
knew kind of a little bitthrough the community.
So I just went up and talked tothem like, hey, this is really
cool.
I wonder if that's somethingthat I could do.
I would love to help somebodyelse achieve their goals.
(23:21):
And he said well, why don't youmeet us at the park and we'll
show you how it's done?
So I met them at the park.
I met the first person who I'dever met who was blind, and I
learned a ton from him, learningwhat they need when, when
running, when cycling, and so Ijust got really involved in this
and actually the night of myaccident the next morning I was
(23:44):
scheduled to run as a guide forthat same young man, and so when
I woke up in the hospitalfreaking out, I said somebody
call Brandon, because I can'tguide him tomorrow.
That was like the first thing Icould think of was talk about
how to get a guide, talk aboutselfless right.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
We talk about a moment right of that like proof
of like self issues you like tocall it to selfless, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I didn't fully immerse myself in the blind
community before my accidentbecause I was kind of selfish
and you know I need to focusmore on myself and not helping
all these other people the restof the time.
But after my accident I wantedto find ways to continue and
involve myself in that communityand because I had kind of lost
(24:30):
some of my speed, I waswondering if I could run with
other athletes who were maybeslower than I was whenever I had
had you know my peakperformance or whatever.
And so enter David Kuhn, who isthis really awesome guy who
lives in Illinois, and he neededa guide for a 5k in Houston.
(24:52):
And so that was my new goal was, once I was able to get healed,
I that would be my first raceback, once I was able to run
again was to guide him for arace.
And that was that's what I puton my calendar, just like I
would any other race, you know,a national championship or
whatever.
But my next big goal was alocal 5k as a guide.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And from.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
There it just snowballs.
And I've been guiding eversince, almost exclusively
because I just find it's waymore fun.
I meet these amazing people, wehave genuine friendships and
partnerships and I get to havesomebody to talk to the whole
time.
It's awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
I can tell you I'm personally grateful for that.
I just want to say, althoughyou've never guided me yet, I'm
personally grateful for for that.
So I just want to say that, god, jacob, what were you gonna ask
?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I was just saying, like Shayan, I just don't, I
just I have trouble fullybelieving like this, this
selfish image that mayoversimplify your pre guide life
.
Because, first off, torecognize that there's someone
that you wanted to guide orcould guide, and then to so
rapidly make the realizationsyou did when you woke up and
(26:09):
then commit yourself to thisgoal of being able to be the
guide which gives you your ownmotivation to get yourself
better in order to guide others,that really speaks to like a
depth of you, or at least someseeds that were trying to sprout
prior to your accident.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I think that came.
That would I mean, because Iagree with Jacob like where did
that come from in you, you think?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I think a spirit of service has always been
something that's been importantto me and instilled in me from
my parents.
You know we've been doingvolunteer community service ever
since I can remember.
When I was really little wewould go to the nursing homes
and just visit with the peoplewho live in assisted living.
We would sometimes give littleenvelopes full of money to
(27:04):
people at the at the dollarstore to give them around
Christmas time to help them withsome of the holiday expenses.
We would go on mission tripsand put on vacation Bible
schools for kids in underservedareas.
So community service has alwaysbeen something that's important
to me and I wouldn't sayguiding is necessarily community
(27:25):
service.
I mean it's more of like you'reserving a friend, just giving
them an extra hand to compete,and so I guess that's just kind
of where that transition camefrom.
I just wanted to help somebodyelse do the same thing that I
love to do, but in a way that issafe and fun for them.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I love that.
You have no idea.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
I think it's a.
It's a rare gift for someone toappreciate serving others, and
it doesn't seem to be such acommon trait.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And I will add to that that, as a person who is in
the blind community, who Irecognize that while I don't I
don't want to really believethat I have limitations, I do
and that finding somebody likeyou, cheyenne, who really can
(28:18):
see the difference, part of thepun, between doing something for
a person and doing it with aperson, I think is such a huge
thing.
That, like that, is a bigdifference.
As a person who is blind, weall we have to ask for help all
the time everybody does, and weespecially all the time.
(28:41):
And so for you to be able torecognize that that there are
you know that these are, thatthere might be people, friends
of yours, that really couldbenefit from from you
participating in their life inthis very specific way so that
they can experience joy, I thinkit's like I just yeah, I just
(29:04):
really feel grateful.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
I like how you said that it's not doing something
for someone, it's doingsomething with someone.
I've definitely learned thatover the last few years.
Like guiding is not.
People think it's like a job ora volunteer opportunity.
But no, it's.
It's a chance to get to hangout with a friend and it's
awesome.
I get, I get to do this all thetime go hang out with friends
(29:28):
and go race with them, you know.
And so I used to say like ohyeah, I'm guiding so and so in
this race.
But now it's like oh no, I'mdoing such and such race with my
, my friend, it's just it's sodifferent.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
In what you're saying , I like reminds me of like this
, this ancient Jewish teachingfrom a work called like the
ethics of our fathers, per kevot, and it's like a series of like
nuggets of wisdom, essentiallyin an oversimplicated,
simplified way.
But one of them is it says canI like a very it's it's by
yourself a friend?
And I think at first it's likea little jarring to us, like
(30:05):
what do you mean?
Like you're buying friends orbribing friends.
But then, in like theexplanation of the teaching, it
says no, you do actually buyfriends by like giving them
gifts and giving them hugs andlistening to them and taking
them out to a meal, and yourability to build friendships via
service, I think, speaks tothat as well.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It's so beautiful.
Absolutely, I like that.
I never really thought about itthat way, but that makes total
sense to me.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Do you mind just going back a little bit and
speaking more about how you're?
I know you said that yourparents, like, took you to do
these, these service trips, andyou know giving charity and
giving your time to others.
Can you speak to how you feltabout doing that as a kid, if it
inspired you, if you felt likeyour parents were dragging you
along to it?
How was that?
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
At first I do think it felt like oh, you know, I
have to go and do this with myfamily especially as a younger
kid.
You know, I didn't really quiteunderstand it like how old.
Yeah, it's hard for kids toespecially young kids like I
don't know, maybe six, seven,eight to really connect with
older people, sometimesespecially if they're not your
(31:15):
family, and so I had a hard timeconnecting.
But after I was in high schoolI started going to the nursing
home by myself and going to keepvisiting, even without my
parents, and I think, as Istarted to just talk to these
people, they have really coolstories they have.
They have seen so much in theirlifetime and there's just a lot
(31:39):
you can learn from them.
Same thing with working withkids at.
We worked with some kids at theNavajo Nation reservation and
those kids were amazing.
You know, they had so manythings to tell, so many
different life perspectives thanthan we have, and so learning
from them and just beinggrateful for the things that I
(31:59):
have and learning newperspectives on things was just
amazing.
So where it first felt likework and it soon turned into
just a passion for just learningand being around people that
were different than me, Can youthink of like a moment or tell a
story about when thattransition kind of took place
and it started to resonate withyou?
(32:20):
Yeah, I think.
So.
There was one woman and Icouldn't even tell you her name,
but when I was in high schooland going by myself and with
other people from my church thatwere young people, we would go
and we would visit and she wasreally mean and nobody really
wanted to go and visit with her.
The nurses had a hard time withher.
She just was really mean and Idon't know if this is because
(32:41):
she had other issues or I don'tknow.
I don't know if she was just agrumpy person, but I really
wanted to give her a chance andso I continued to visit with her
and I realized one day shethought I was her daughter and
so she was being really sweet tome and I guess she had some
(33:01):
dementia or Alzheimer's and shewas just being really nice to me
and I think at that moment Iwas like wow, like just being
here for her for just a moment.
She thinks that her daughter ishere and she's having a really
good visit with her.
So I'm not going to take thataway from her.
Like, and after that, you know,I moved away, I went to college
(33:22):
and I continued to go to nursinghomes.
Even when I was in college.
People my age don't do that.
That's weird.
That's a really strange way tospend your free time, but I
loved it.
I love older people.
I love the stories that theyhave to tell and just the
perspectives that they have.
Like I love history that theycan share.
They've lived through so manythings that I only read about in
(33:45):
books.
So to get to hear those storiesfrom them and just the smiles
that they get when they tell astory about you know that
president, or that moment intime like you, can really learn
so much from them.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
It's more than that, because it's also just just what
I hear about everything thatyou're saying the common
denominator is being is justconnecting with human beings on
like a deep and meaningful level, right Like through the stories
they tell.
I think that and I think that Idon't know, I'm just having a
little bit of an epiphany herefor you and I could be
(34:19):
absolutely wrong but I'm likejust seems like everything that
you have done right thetriathlons, all the training,
the volunteering, all of thosethings really boil down to you
providing opportunity for you toconnect with other human beings
.
And when it started to go awrywas when you really weren't
doing that as a triathlete.
(34:39):
You were, you were rightbecause you were sort of so
focused on on your numbers, onyour, on your races.
So it's really, it's just soincredible to hear this, this
story, how it, because it justsounds like it's such a
meaningful thing for you.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
That spot on.
I never really made thatconnection.
But, yes, connections are soimportant to me, and especially
connections with people whomaybe don't always get the
connections that they deserve.
So, whether that's people inthe disability community, people
who you know areunderprivileged in the community
, people who are ignored in theassisted living, like people
(35:18):
that deserve more connectionthan they're getting, that's
what I want.
I want those people to havemore connections.
And so I know I can't changethe world, like I'm just one
person, but I can try.
I can try to do a little bithere and there.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
You're not trying, you're doing.
I say that to people all thetime you are in it.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
I, I like, firmly, firmly disagree that you can't
change the world.
Because when people say thatthey, they fail to acknowledge
that you are part of the world,like if you are changing through
the work you're doing, that isinherently changing the world.
That's the only way thingshappen.
You know, shayan, I don't knowhow many times you you told your
story and I understand likethinking of this area of your
(35:59):
life as like the selfish era,but it really feels like you.
you know, you started life as akid and every kid, to a degree,
has to be a taker of some kindbecause they're kids you know,
and, and hopefully their, theirparents, guardians, mentors,
whomever are are inspiring themto transition or being takers to
being receivers, and a receiveris a taker that has a level of
(36:19):
gratitude which is, in turn,giving back to the giver.
And as we get older, I thinkthe people who live the most
meaningful lives are the peoplewho know how to be both givers
and receivers.
And I have to imagine in yourrecovery from your injury, you
both relearned how to be areceiver instead of a taker and,
(36:40):
in turn, became a giver.
In the work you're doing,you're continuing to be a giver
and I think that helps youresonate with with being your
best self.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Yeah, I agree Um it's well said.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
So now that we kind of you know, spoke about a
little bit of your, your lifetrajectory, can you, can you,
speak a little bit more aboutwhat's it like to be a guide?
How'd you get there, what are,what are the races like, and
maybe some of the connectionsyou've made in the community?
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Absolutely so.
Um, and and Kim knows a littlebetter than I do, Well, she
knows about the same as I dothat the, the blind and guide
community is fairly small, andso we have, you know, these,
these Facebook groups, or wehave kind of word of mouth,
where you know you can raiseyour hand and say I'd love to be
a guide for this race, Wouldanybody like to do it with me?
(37:27):
And athletes who are blind cancan say, oh, you should
definitely do this race withthat person, or?
Speaker 3 (37:32):
no, don't race with that person, Wait why do they
say not to race with someone?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Well, I mean, there's different reasons why you might
not want to race, Like there'sthere's preferences, right?
Well, so, like I love to talk,I am a big time chatter.
And some people don't like that.
When they're racing with a guy,they want somebody to just be
very quiet and focused.
So they may say hey, I don'tthink Cheyenne's the best match
for you, because you talk a lot,but it's like, almost like a
(38:00):
guide dog.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You know what I'm saying.
Like because there'spersonality.
What Cheyenne's pointing to is,like you know, just, in any any
relationship, dynamic, right,personality is a factor, right,
and so there definitely needs tobe some level of meshing,
because you are, first of all,there's a tremendous amount
Cheyenne, you know this as aguide of trust, not just from
(38:23):
the athlete to the guide, butalso from the guide to the
athlete, and so yeah, so I thinkthat there's a couple, there's
a bunch of different componentsaround, like maybe this wouldn't
be a good fit, but keep, keepgoing, cheyenne.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, just by kind of consulting the community, you
can figure out is this going tobe a good match for me, Is this
going to be a good race for me?
And you know some guides andathletes are willing to travel
to meet their partner, some arenot, and so that's kind of the
way that you figure things out.
But I started running as aguide first and would run with
athletes, but then a woman namedAshley Eisenminger out of
(38:59):
Illinois, she asked her friend.
Yeah, she asked if I would beinterested in guiding her for a
triathlon.
But this was before I had evergotten on a tandem bike.
I didn't know anything abouttandem cycling, and so I had to
essentially learn how to pilot atandem bike so that we could go
to the national championshipsfor para triathlon.
And so this is when the worldof para tri just came into my
(39:23):
life and I remembered how much Ilove to do swim, bike and run.
But now I get to add in thecomponent of having somebody by
my side the whole time, and Iwas so ready.
So from there I learned how topilot a tandem bike.
I was terrible at first, but Igot better at it and now it's my
favorite thing in the world.
And yeah, just things just kindof snowballed from there.
(39:44):
I started meeting other peoplewho wanted to have a guide.
I started doing races withdifferent people around the
country.
I eventually graduated to thehalf Ironman distance Wow and
did several of those.
And then that's when I metKathy.
Kathy is a woman from NewJersey.
(40:04):
She is deafblind and usesAmerican Sign Language as her
primary form of communication,and I was learning ASL at the
time.
And so she sent me an email andsaid hey, I heard that you're a
guide who knows how to sign.
Would you be interested inracing with me?
And I was like I don't knowthat much sign language but I'm
(40:24):
trying and if you're patientthen maybe we can make this work
.
So she flew down to Texas.
We did a half marathon together.
It was awesome and she was sopatient and she taught me more
signs and I was still in school,learning as much as I could,
and from there she and I havedone three half Ironman since
then and we're planning to do afull Ironman in October.
(40:46):
So I love that now and now,because of her and because of my
schooling, I have a whole newlanguage that I can utilize.
If people are deaf or hard ofhearing, I can still communicate
with them.
We can still race together in asafe and fun way.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Oh, my goodness For people who don't know how far
are the distances of an Ironman?
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Sure.
So full Ironman is 2.4 milesswim, 112 mile bike or 26.2 mile
run, which is a marathon.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
So you swim 2.4 miles , you bike 112 miles, which is
like already, and then you'llrun a marathon.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Exactly, and I'll let you guys in on a little secret.
Well, not so much of a secret.
I'm doing two this year.
Oh my goodness as a guy who areyou doing with the first?
One is with Randy Strunk, whois from Minneapolis.
We're doing Chattanooga, andthat one is actually a 116 mile
bike.
So four more because why not?
(41:48):
Yeah, why not?
And then the other one isCalifornia, with Kathy in
October.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Hell yeah, I'm not supposed to help.
Oh my goodness, oh my gosh,people are going to get sick of
listening to this episodebecause I'm just I'm so grateful
for you.
I just I'm so grateful for youand I'm so great.
I'm just on behalf of my whole,all my people, as I say, and
(42:16):
Ashley is.
You know, this community issmall, jacob, you know what I'm
saying and you just you just endup meeting, oh, have you met
this person or have you met thatperson?
You just speak.
I never even met Ashley, but wetalk on the phone for hours all
the time.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So it's like and it's yeah, so it's funny too,
because it's like, oh no, we'venever met, but they're doing.
They're doing this race thatI'm doing, or we went to the
same guide dog school, orsomething like that you know how
.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
How do you?
I can understand how to guidesomeone on a tandem bike.
That makes some sense to me aslike as a pilot, but how do you
guide someone in the swim or inthe run?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah, so in the swim you have a tether that's
attached either to your waist,to your thigh or both.
I think some use a tetherthat's connected to their ankle.
I've not tried that one yet howlong is?
It.
It's you know, I should knowthis, Not that it's not super
long.
I got full.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Yeah, oh yeah, it's, it's.
So you're really close by.
Yeah, you're close.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
It's a bungee material.
So if they feel the the tethergetting tight, they know they're
going the wrong way and if theybump into you, they know.
Okay, my guide's still there.
So I will tell you.
There was one time when we werein Ironman, alaska.
The water was 56 degrees, we'rein a full wetsuit booties,
neoprene cap, everything and thetether slipped off my leg
(43:38):
because I couldn't feel my legs,I didn't know that it was off
me, and so all I hear is Randyscreaming shy and and she got
the tether waving in the air.
So I was like, oh there's,there's Randy.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Oh my gosh, that sounds.
That sounds Terrifying.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Well, it's pretty scary.
So you have to.
When you breathe, you want tosight and make sure that your
partner is right next to you.
So that's what I do when I'mbreathing I just take a second,
make sure my partner's stillthere, make sure I'm not too far
ahead or too far behind, and,yeah, that's how you stay
together in the swim.
You don't have to communicatemuch in the water.
(44:14):
Obviously, there's no realtalking.
If you need to make a turn, youcan either tap or you can just
bump into your partner untilthey turn around the buoy.
With Kathy, we have a couple ofsigns that we use for start,
stop, emergency, that kind ofthing.
And then when I grab her on theshoulder, she knows it's time
to stand up.
We're done.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I want to ask it's a little bit different than what
we've been talking about, but Ithink it's just curious if we
could sort of go down thisdirection a little bit is when
you started talking about yourexperience in high school and
you were like I was countingcalories and I was really
focused on these very sort oflike you know how many miles
have I run?
Or like maybe what do I looklike?
Those kinds of things.
Do you feel like that stillhappens for you?
Speaker 2 (45:02):
In a way yes and no.
So I have had body dysmorphiaever since I was in high school.
I'm not a big person by anymeans, but I'm kind of midsize
and I see myself as much largerthan I actually am.
I'm not a small person and I'vealways been rather tall and
(45:23):
just kind of, you know, muscular, and so that to me always
equated to being fat, and so Ialways felt like the biggest
girl on my cross country team,because most girls that run are
a lot smaller than me.
They look differently you knowI've got these big legs because
I cycle so much and those biglegs are not necessarily equated
(45:45):
to a strong runner or a strongswimmer.
So, yeah, I've always had thisbody dysmorphia, and it got
exacerbated after my accidentbecause I went into the hospital
being the smallest that everever been in my life and now
they're pumping me full offluids.
I'm not able to exercise, I'meating just a bunch of junk food
(46:08):
and gaining weight, and that'sall I could think about was I'll
never be as small as I used tobe, I'll never be back to as
fast as I was.
You know I'm never going toreturn to that.
And so for a long time itreally, really got to me and I
would.
You know I'd be lying if I saidthat I don't still think about
(46:31):
myself in that way.
But when pictures are posted ofme doing a race as a guide, I'm
looking less at the way my bodylooks and more at the smile on
my face and the smile on theface of my partner, like I'm
thinking to myself, wow, like,look at this thing that we just
(46:53):
did, look at what our bodieswere able to make us do.
Like I'm not thinking aboutwhat I look like, but more like
how my body can perform.
And I think, too, I have areally special perspective
because a lot of the people thatI hang out with, a lot of my
friends, a lot of my racingpartners, are blind or low
(47:15):
vision and when they see me,they don't see what I look like.
They don't see that I think I'mfat or I'm having a bad hair
day or whatever.
Like all they see is how I makethem feel and how I train them.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I was thinking the same thing, Kim.
I was thinking it's like somuch.
You know spirit work, soul work, you know when people say like.
The word psyche is oftentranslated as mind, but it also
means like spirit or soul.
Yeah, and that's what makesconnections with people.
Is that spirit or psyche?
(47:49):
And Cheyenne, that's what itseems like is resonating with
the people you run with.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, To me like it's like the before and after my
accident, how I was alwaysfocused on what I looked like
and what I performed like, andnow it's more about like what
can I do for other people?
And that has come back to me inmy.
You know, I still have my dayswhere I'm not pleased with how I
look, but then I go and dosomething and I'm like, wow,
(48:17):
like my body was able to carryme through that amount of miles
or that activity that I just did, or I just I don't know, I, I,
or even just participate in thisexperience with this person.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
I just had the deepest and hardest laugh I've
had all week.
You know it's.
But you know, look, as a woman,you know, jacob, you you can't
relate to this, but you, youknow, you've grown up around
women, you know it's.
I think it's important to saythat that it is, I think, a
struggle for women just ingeneral.
You know, like, you know,comparing yourself to other
(48:53):
people, and what do I look likeand do I look?
Do I look good enough?
All of these things, and I thinkthat for many women, that is
that can be something that theyexperience like the good part of
the, the better part of theirlife.
And so for you to be where youare with it, when you, you can
actually look at a photographand go I'm, I'm going to look at
(49:15):
how big my smile is and how bigmy, my partner's smile is, and
like I think that's tremendousand I think that's actually I
mean, we don't do a lot, I don'tknow, I guess we do do advice
giving, but I just think that'san important thing to just put
out there of like here's, here'show I am able to make peace in
(49:38):
these very like tangible wayswith I mean, look, how many
times do you?
Oh, do take the picture, like,oh, I got to see the picture.
I don't you know.
I say to people all the timeone of the biggest blessings for
me has been going blind becauseI can't see myself, can't see
myself, I can't.
I don't go into a yoga studioand do a yoga class and compare
myself to any other women Iwould have 10 years ago.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Well, at least you can't see yourself in it in a
superficial way, right?
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Exactly, and so it allows for the space for for you
, for me, to be able to, likeyou know, connect deeply or like
, feel somebody for, like whothey are as a person, and I
think you, you're, I thinkyou're, you're, you're there,
you know, you're doing it,you're doing the work, the
deeper work.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, that's really.
(50:24):
I'm so glad you were, you werewilling to talk on that.
Yeah, absolutely, sometimes itcould be a tough topic, you know
.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
Shayne, do you think in growing and in like giving to
others, you've developed skillsand giving to yourself in a
healthy way.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
That's a good question.
Um, you know, I was in therapya few years ago and my therapist
she's awesome.
She would help me choose a wordthat would be my word to focus
on that year.
And, uh, one year I choseservice and that was easy, you
know.
I got to do a lot of activitiesand serve the community in
(51:01):
different ways and then the nextyear I chose self, because
there was an imbalance in theamount of time I was doing
things for other people and theamount of times I was doing
things for myself.
And I still struggle with thatbalance.
Like, I would love to helpsomeone every weekend, I would
love to go and race as a guideevery weekend, I would love to
go and serve at a nonprofitevery weekend, but I do need
(51:25):
time for myself to recharge.
You can't fill your cup, yeah,or what is it?
You can't fill up someone's cupif your cup is empty.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah, that's exactly what the expression I was
thinking.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
I just I don't, um, I don't like to think that doing
things for other people drainsme, because I don't think it
does.
I like to do things for otherpeople, but sometimes I just
need time to myself, and I don'talways do that.
So that's something I'm reallyworking on is just scheduling
time for myself, scheduling timefor my fiance and I to have our
(51:57):
own time, like the, and justrest.
Rest is so important.
I would love to just go, go, goevery day, but realistically
that's not going to work.
I have to rest, and soscheduling that time and just
making myself rest and do thingsthat I like to do that don't
involve triathlon is veryimportant.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
That's it.
It's to find that harmonybetween um to move away from
selfishness, which is liketaking to be self-full, Like I'm
filling myself up for the sakeof myself and others, and that's
such a hard harmony to strike.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Right.
Speaker 3 (52:30):
Um, shannon, you're just wondering if you wanted to
share any final thoughts oranything, maybe.
Perhaps we didn't speak aboutthat you're hoping to touch on?
Speaker 2 (52:39):
Sure, there's this group of women um, three of them
are blind or low vision, andthen there's me, and we came
together to create anorganization called blind fury,
and what we did was, last year,we raced together as a relay, so
one did the swim, one did thebike, one did the run and I
guided all three of them, and sowe were the first in history to
(53:02):
do this at an Ironman half uh,sorry, at a half Ironman
distance race.
So ever since then, this blindfury group has kind of blown up,
and now we're doing more in thecommunity uh, to, yeah, to to
inspire more people and equipmore people with the resources,
(53:22):
the volunteers, the equipmentthat they need to be able to
compete in sports, especially ifthey're blind or low vision.
So, um, ever since we had ourhistorical event back in April
of 2023, we started hostingguide clinics so that we could
teach more athletes to becomeguides for athletes who are
(53:43):
blind or low vision, and sosince then, we've hosted three
different clinics in threedifferent cities and we've got
even more on the books.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
Yeah, what's what's it is.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
We did Dallas, we did Fort Worth and we did Galveston
, Texas.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
When are you um?
When are you going to do Philly?
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Hey, I'm ready.
I'm ready to go to Philly rightnow.
Okay, great.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Let's broad, let's broaden that reach.
Oh, that's this is.
This is just.
It just gives them the chillsall over.
Um, I remember, I rememberseeing this all over your social
media.
I commented every single time Icould I just love, love, love
the mission, love what you guysare doing.
It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
It's so much fun and to get to do it with my friends.
And then my fiance is alsohelping out.
He already, before we even met,had a nonprofit for people with
disabilities, and then we metand so it all just kind of came
together and now we're teachingclinics, we're helping send
tethers to people who want tolearn how to run with a guide,
we're sending all kinds ofresources to them.
(54:45):
So this is just something Ireally believe in and want to
continue to grow until we canhave a clinic in every major
city in the United States.
So that's just a big dream ofmine.
Um, and with the help of myfriends and my fiance, like
we're, we're going to try ourbest to change the world, if we
can.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Well, you're doing it , you're doing it, you're doing
it, girl.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Shane, how do people get involved?
If they, if they'd like or Idon't know if you accept like
donations, how can people helpcontribute to what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (55:14):
Yeah, so, um, if you want to follow us on Instagram,
we have a couple of different uhpages so you can follow tribe,
t, r Y B E, underscore adaptive.
Okay, um, also, you can followuh blind fury burning barriers
on Instagram or Facebook and umthe tribe page.
(55:34):
There should be a link ifanybody wants to donate to our
mission to help host moreclinics and um have the
equipment needed for um each ofthe little clinics that we put
on, that's awesome.
We're going to put all of thatstuff in our show notes?
Speaker 1 (55:48):
Okay, absolutely Okay .
Speaker 2 (55:51):
Um, yeah, I can send you the links, uh, specifically
to our PayPal as well, if you'dlike.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
Oh yeah, that'd be wonderful.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
Um well, I think that kind of wraps up for today,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
Yeah, thank you, thank you so much, thank you all
.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
This was awesome.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
Yeah.
And we can't wait to.
Speaker 3 (56:07):
We can't wait to publish this?
That's right.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
So excited.
Speaker 3 (56:12):
We want to thank you so much for listening to today's
episode.
If anything in today's episodespoke to you, please like
subscribe rate and review.
Also, don't forget to sharethis podcast with friends and
family.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
And if there's anybody that you know that you
think would be a great guest onintuitive choices, please email
us atintuitivechoicespodcastgmailcom.
Finally, if you want to knowmore about our mental health
practice, intuitive counselingand wellness, please check us
out atintuitivecounselingofphillycom.
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