Dave Steele: The Blind Poet Finding His Voice by Being a Voice for Others

Dave Steele, also known as The Blind Poet, joins us today to paint a vivid recount of not just living with vision loss, but also the battles with homelessness, mental health struggles, and the resilience it takes to navigate life's adversities.

What does it mean to be blind? Does it imply a life of limitations or can it be a world full of potential and opportunities? Dave tackles these misconceptions head-on, sharing how his retinitis pigmentosa diagnosis may limit his sight, but it has ignited his vision. Today, Dave's poetry serves as a lifeline for many who are dealing with similar situations, echoing a message of resilience and hope.

The Blind Poet’s Website
https://www.theblindpoet.net/

Dave’s Video with Meta
https://m.facebook.com/Meta/videos/the-blind-poet/683055240000348/

The Blind Poet’s Facebook Page
https://m.facebook.com/theBlindPoetRP/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi everyone, thank you so much for joining us today
for another episode ofIntuitive Choices.
Just so you know, today'sepisode will have a discussion
revolving around suicidality.
Get ready for a fantasticepisode.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode
of Intuitive Choices.
Today, jacob and I are so luckyto have on our show somebody by
the name of Dave Steele.
You know, a lot of the peoplethat Jacob and I have had on our
show thus far have been kind ofpeople that we've known, and so

(00:41):
this is really exciting for usbecause I came across Dave on
Facebook because, you know, asyou know, people who listen to
our podcast know I have writtenout his Pimitosa and I am blind,
and so all of a suddensomething came up on my Facebook

(01:01):
of a beautiful poem by this guywho goes by the name the blind
poet.
And I read his poem or listenedto it, I should say, and I was
like, oh my god, this feels likethis poem was written about me
and I didn't even run it byJacob.
I just cold emailed thisgentleman, found him and said,

(01:28):
hey, I have this, you know Ico-host this podcast which would
be willing to come on and justtalk to us about your experience
and how you became the blindpoet.
And you said, yes, dave, and sohere we are, I feel so we're so
lucky to have you and sowelcome.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here.
Thanks for joining us, dave.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
This is so exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
I'm both very grateful that Kim cold emailed
you and that you said yes, andin all our conversations before
you know, I'm just really,really happy to have met you so
far and looking forward to learnmore about your story.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, me too.
Thank you and thanks for havingme on.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, no problem, I you know what I feel like.
I cannot remember exactly whatthe poem was.
It was the poem, I think it'slike it's one of your like
quintessential poems of likewhat it was like for you to go
blind.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
I think.
I think the PC you're talkingabout was.
It was actually a piece I wrotefor a collaboration I did with
Metta.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
That's correct.
It is that poem.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, yeah they.
They came out and a film crewout from California flew out to
the UK, to Manchester where Ilive, arrived at my house at
like 7 30 on a Sunday morningand we filmed all day.
And it was for this kind ofongoing series they do call
Community Voices, where theypick people who use social media
for good and, you know, usesocial media to inspire others

(02:54):
and they tell lots of people'sdifferent stories.
But the way they wanted to doit with me was slightly
different.
So they came kind of gave me anidea of what they wanted to do
and then I put it into a pieceof poetry and the poem that you
heard was was from that video,kind of telling my story from
the, the moment of diagnosis tokind of becoming the blind poet.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
You know I've seen in both knowing Kim for how long
I've known Kim and individualsthat she's introduced me to in
the RP community.
You know it's there's so muchsimilarity but yet profound
individuality and difference inevery individual who is
experiencing this disorder.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Definitely, yeah, you know, that's one of the great
things about actuallycommunicating with others and
reaching out.
It was one of the first thingsthat I actually got told at the
very beginning of my journey,when I was really, really
struggling with my diagnosis wasthe best way to understand what
you're going through is tospeak to other people who are
going through the same thing andactually, as, as you know, as
simple as that sounds, itactually didn't occur to me back

(03:54):
then to do that, and it was,you know, making those
connections which inspired me tokind of start writing when I
started talking to other peopleand finding that we have this
common thread.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
How did you find those people to talk to?

Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, really great at first.
I mean there was a mixtureactually.
So my audience, funny enough,has always been kind of in the
US.
You know my kind of key, kindof following, if you want to
call it that, in the UK what Itend to find.
It's not so bad now, but at thebeginning, when I first started
writing the poetry in the UK wehave this term you may have

(04:29):
heard of, called stiff upper lip.
Sure, yeah, it basically meansyou know that it's like that old
fashioned way of especially men, or you shouldn't talk about
your emotions and shouldn't talkabout your feelings and keep it
bottled in.
And you know stiff upper lipand it's just ridiculous.
And actually you know from alot of people within the blind
community in the UK when I firststarted writing the poetry, I

(04:50):
got a lot of negative commentsof people saying, oh, you
shouldn't write about anxietyand you shouldn't talk about
depression and you shouldn'ttalk about our struggles because
that's putting blindness in abad light or it being seen as a
weakness, and got a lot of hateand some really kind of nasty
comments.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
From within the community itself.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
you're saying yeah, from within the community itself
, saying that I was kind ofshining a bad light on it and
that my poems were full of pityand it's kind of like that thing
that you know, if people onlywant to focus and drill down on
one part of it, that's allthey're going to see, right.
Whereas there was always lightand dark.
You know light and shade withinmy poetry.

(05:28):
I'd tell the good days and thebad days and I always try to,
you know, on the really raw,emotional poems, talking about
all those feelings, I'd alwaysput a positive spin on it.
But you have some people who,when they read it, will only
focus and hear those thosenegative parts and miss the
other message.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well, even so, here you've found like a medium of
self-expression, right, that ishelping you cope and deal with
going blind, which istraumatizing, right from from
one person who's experienced itto another, and and then you're
doing this thing that's actuallyhelpful for you, and then

(06:08):
you're getting this feedbackfrom people that are telling you
, yo, you're doing it wrong.
You know so that, yeah, I had abeginning.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yeah, I kind of took it to heart at the beginning but
I kind of stuck with it and I'mglad I did, because I believed
in you know what I was doing andI've been proved right by the
people that helped, but for meit was.
It was when I first came upwith the idea it was.
I couldn't believe there wasn'tanyone else or more people
actually doing it, because to meit was the same thing.
As you know, we all turn toparticular songs, music when we

(06:38):
are struggling, you know darktimes, whether it be you know
losing someone we love, or youknow a breakup or something like
that.
We have songs that get usthrough, and poetry and
storytelling within that kind ofrealm of you know music and
poetry.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
It's the same thing.
It makes people kind of feel itmore Right, yeah, so yeah, for
me it was just, you know, it wasso obvious that that was a
really you know great way ofbeing able to have well supposed
.
For me it was have a purpose,you know, find a place in the
world again.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Or maybe to have your purpose like realized.
Like you know, I imagine it'sthe purpose that leads to the
drive to create the art.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, I mean, I'd never written poetry before I
started, you know, started tolose my sight.
I'd written a couple of poemswhen I was younger, you know,
and I worked as a singer for thebest part 20 years, which, kind
of you know, led me to this.
I always thought that I wasmeant to be a singer, but now,
when I look back on it, it justgave me the tools to do what I
do now.
So, you know, just having thatkind of understanding of flow

(07:36):
and rhythm allowed me to kind ofwrite the way I do and, you
know, on the level of doing theamount that I do, where it just
kind of spilled out on me.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
And I mean you're.
I mean you're speaking all overthe world right before we even
started recording.
You're like coming back andforth from the United States to
the back and forth to the UK,like doing all kinds of of
keynote speaking.
But this hasn't always beenyour life, right, a big you know

(08:05):
.
When you got diagnosed with RP,things were kind of rough,
right?

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yeah, I mean they were rough long before that as
well.
I mean, I spent most of my lifethinking I was cursed.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Can we zoom out for a moment?
Can you let us know a littlebit about, like a little bit
about life growing up, thetransition?
Like you know, in America, likethe school years, are a little
different.
What we call different thingsare different in the UK.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
So like for me.
You know, never really had akind of strong family kind of
background connection.
My dad passed away when I was13.
He was actually 72 when hepassed away, so he was like 60
when he had me.
So he was he could never reallydo a lot for me.
The only thing he ever did forme was really introduced me to

(08:52):
football or soccer as you callmy team, manchester United,
which is, you know, big footballteam.
He used to take me to that whenI was a kid and that was the
only thing he ever did for me.
So that became a massivepassion of mine and still is
today with my, with my son or mysons, I should say and my, you
know, mom kind of met somebodyelse after he passed away and

(09:16):
pretty much kind of moved inwith this guy.
I, you know, was pretty much onmy own, a lot of my kind of
formative years.
So when I left college and wentto work away as a singer when I
was like 18, I actually didn'thave a family home anymore.
My mom had moved in with thisguy.
We never really got on, so thatwas fractured.
So I used to go away and workas a singer kind of seasonal

(09:39):
work, you know, during thesummer, touring around on cruise
ships and working at hotels andthings like that, and and
during the kind of downtime whenthese places weren't open, I
was homeless.
So I had many a time where I'dbe kind of like sofa surfing.
There was times when I was outin the streets with bags and
stuck for places to stay, whichreally affected my mental health

(10:00):
.
There was, you know, times whereyou know there was a couple of
suicide attempts when I wasreally really struggling and
actually kind of, you know,looking back on all that now
kind of fast forward and we'llcut back to that in a minute I
was a great believer thateverything happens for a reason,
and all these things thathappened to me in my formative
years gave me first of all thestrength to face sight loss and

(10:23):
going blind in a different wayto most people, because of what
I've been through in the pastyeah gave me the armor to face
the things I was yet to facegoing forward, but also gave me
this kind of openness andability to be able to talk about
things that a lot of peoplemaybe struggle to kind of voice
and talk, whether that's justyou know was talking like this
or through the poetry.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
It's like everything that you've lived provided
opportunity for you to likeutilize whatever those things
that you were learning to likeapply to your life as you were
living it.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
Well, I can't let me tell you this little story.
So I've actually written aboutthis and it's out there
somewhere.
And I was it got response whenI said that.
I remember this is long beforeI was diagnosed with RP, when I
was in my early twenties.
I was down, you know, betweenjobs and I had nowhere to stay,
and I was down on the southcoast of England near this kind

(11:18):
of like seaside town and thingsweren't really working out all
and I gave up.
I completely gave up and I waslike, okay, I just can't take
this anymore and I had all myworldly belongings and I cut in
like three whole bags of myshoulders, I dumped them in
these bushes and I walked alongthis beach intending to kind of
end it.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
End your life Like you really tried to complete
suicide.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
I found like this pylon kind of electrical tower
thing, and I was going to climbup to the top and let myself go
off it and I sat on this benchwaiting for it to get dark and
these two young lads walked pastand as they walked past they
saw me and one of them said oh,you okay.
And I was like inside of meeverything was crying out saying

(12:03):
tell them everything.
Tell them that you know youneed help and you're struggling.
And this sat on the other.
But I just kind of went yeah,I'm fine, as you know, you just
kind of I'm okay.
And one of them had some beersthat they bought from a local
shop and they passed me a beer.
And as they walked off into thedistance, I kind of had this
internal conversation withmyself and thinking, man, if I'd

(12:24):
have told them, maybe theycould have helped me and I could
have gone back with them andthey would have helped me get
back on my feet or give mesomewhere to stay for the night
and all these little things.
And I went to the the when andI climbed over this fence, went
to the top of this tower,climbed all the way up and held
myself off the edge waiting tolet myself drop and something
inside of me just went no, andbefore I knew it I'd climbed

(12:49):
back down.
I'd walked all the way along acouple of miles back down the
beach, found my bags that weredropped in a bush, and I got on
with my life and I carried on.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Dave.
So holy cow.
So it wasn't.
This is like a statement slashquestion.
Like I don't, I don't feel like.
That was like fear.
Telling you no, there wassomething else.
Telling you no, do you knowwhat I mean?
Like you're at the top of atower right, like it wasn't like
.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Oh, I'm scared to jump off something telling me
that you know I meant for more.
What's interesting is like.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
I mean we always tell people like the podcast is not
therapy, we do not want it, youknow.
I mean you're talking totherapist but you're talking to
therapist and the moment thatsticks out for me is stashing
your bag somewhere, as opposedto just like leaving them out in
the open, as if you were goingto come back to them.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
I mean literally just kind of put them in a bush.
I mean they could, they couldhave been taken because you know
they were just kind of there,but I didn't just leave them
right.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
So yeah, maybe subconsciously yeah, that you're
gonna go back, but I'd neveractually until you've said that
I've never actually thoughtabout that too much yeah,
there's a lot of things you'resaying like reminds me of things
like Victor Frankel wrote inhis book like man search for
meaning.
And saying, like you know a lotof these big psychologists from

(14:12):
like the original era ofpsychologists, you know Freud
and Young and all these, allthese up people they like talk
about the will to something youknow that's what keeps people
alive and and Victor Frankeltalks about the thing that
really drives humanity and keepsus alive essentially is the
will to meaning.
And a master level therapistlike like Victor Frankel.

(14:35):
And when suicidal clients wouldcome to him, he would say like
they would say, like you know,express why they were suicidal.
And then he would say so, whydon't you kill yourself and I'm
sure he said in a different tonebut really wanted to tap onto
is like you have not killedyourself yet you may be suicidal
sitting in the office with me.
So what's keeping you here?
And just by putting your bagsin the bush, that shows that

(14:57):
something's keeping you here.
So what do you think that thingwas?

Speaker 3 (15:01):
I think it was just knowing that things could change
in the future, that no matter.
You know how bad things seemedat that moment, you know there
was no telling where I could bein a few, you know a few years
time.
I know was longed for the thingthat was missing as a kid, of
having, you know, a family, asafe place, a home, all those
things so was that?

Speaker 2 (15:22):
so it was almost like that right, like there's a part
of you that was thinking yeah,I mean my lifestyle at that time
, you know, was the furthestaway from kind of those sort of
things.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
I was, you know, touring around as a singer and I
had this kind of wholeexistence where, you know, one
minute I was staying inbeautiful places, in lovely
hotels, performing in front ofyou know big audiences and doing
something that I was sopassionate about to be, you know
having nothing and being, youknow, in that really dark place.

(15:53):
But I knew that, you know, I'dhave these moments to be able to
do the other thing and I thinkthe thing that kind of changed
it for me was, you know, I'd hada couple of occasions where,
you know, there was times likethat.
And then I was working inCyprus in my early 20s and had
an accident.
Well, it's an accident.
I was actually.

(16:13):
I was electrocuted on stage,whoa, I was blown up whoa, I've
got you can't see my hands here.
I've got like entrance and exitrooms on my.
On my hands there was, you know, you have a trip box for
electricity.
Yeah, I was performing thishotel and it was a new hotel and
the wire wasn't great.
There was no trip box and therewas a surge of electricity and
it came straight through thelead microphone and I went to

(16:35):
take it out the stand and itblew me up and I was on a life
support machine with a regularheartbeat for a couple of weeks
outside and it nearly died.
I've been holding my hands andyou know everything fried, but
that experience kind of I was,you know, so close to kind of
not being around and it wassimple as flicking on a switch

(16:57):
yeah, that kind of made merealize how fragile life is and
actually you know how to kind ofreally make the most of it and
appreciate it.
Wow, and I'm not saying Ilearned all the lessons back
then.
I think actually it wasn'tuntil I got on this path now
where I started.
You know, I became the blindpilot and started to lose my

(17:19):
sight.
That that I really learned themost.
I, as I was saying at thebeginning, you know a lot of
things happened in my formativeyears through my 20s where no
matter what I was doing in life,it just wouldn't work out.
You know, I almost felt like itwas cursed at times.
Just nothing would ever goright, whether it be jobs,
relationships, it would never.

(17:40):
It would never seem to happen.
Yeah, and then, all of a sudden, when I was at my lowest, after
being diagnosed and found thisability to express through the
poetry and that in turn, washelping people, it's so spooky.
You talk about, you know, I'llfly to America and do this, that
and the other.
Now, since that very momentwhen I discovered this ability

(18:01):
to write the poetry and Istarted to get that response, it
is spookily crazy how I meetpeople at the right place, the
right time have these incredibleopportunities.
Yep, and everything in my lifejust kind of fell into place.
Yep, the moment my sightstarted to go yep, yeah, I'm a

(18:22):
I'm a fervent believer.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
That's.
Every, every single individualon the planet has like their
role in humanity.
You know, it could be aspectrum of different things
that could be, but well, whatour hope is in the podcast is
that people learn how to tapinto their own intuition to make
the choice that they have to doin order to find like their
role, their vocation, theircalling, whatever that is.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
And then their flow.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
That's true, and that's how it comes out.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
That is 100% what I've done, you've totally done
it, I believe.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
So you said you weren't conceited or anything.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
I believe that my poetry and my words are going to
be so important a long timeafter I'm gone from the impact
I've already had.
I've already seen and I seeevery day the messages I get
from people the difference itmakes and it's crazy and I'd
never take that for granted.
I'm so humbled by it, but itflaws me every single day.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
And so in some ways, you know, you said you came to
poetry like later in life, butin some ways you're also always
the poet.
Yeah, and it was realizing thatthat was like a part of your
essence.
How you know, we don't live inan era where everyone's reading
poetry, where everyone's writingpoetry.
You know, how did you realizewithin yourself that that was
going to be something?

(19:37):
I would let your, your selfexpression come out and connect
with others.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
So for me it came from the music side.
So just to kind of give thebrief version of how it happened
was when I was really reallystruggling after that diagnosis.
As a family, we lost our housebecause how old were you?
When you were diagnosed and howold are you now 38 and you're
48 now, so 10 years ago.

(20:02):
You know my wife, my now wife,amy we I just asked to marry me.
We set a date of New Year's Eve2014.
We had our son Austin, together, who was born in June 2013.
You know, we I've had mydaughter from a previous
relationship, ellie, who livesin Glasgow.
I was driving up and gettingher every other weekend back

(20:22):
down to Manchester.
Amy had two sons from aprevious marriage who was a
similar age to Ellie, and we hadthis perfect little new family.
And when the diagnosis came,everything just kind of fell
apart.
We lost our house, we struggledfinancially because I'd lost my
job.
My means of support was alwaysbased around driving.

(20:43):
I worked as a singer, I alsoworked in car sales and then I
lowest, I got invited to asupport group for people with
our condition, rp, and anothercondition called Usher Syndrome,
which is the same site lastyear and hearing loss.
Yeah, and the organizers of thesupport group said to me when
they heard that I was a singer,would you come and sing some

(21:03):
songs and be the entertainmentfor the support group that day?
And I said yes, because I wasreally nervous about going and
meeting other blind people forthe first time, especially at
the timer, was that I was veryanxious.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
What made you nervous about that?

Speaker 3 (21:15):
Just being around people with canes and guide dogs
was a glimpse into my future.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Oh, yeah, yeah, that scared the hell out of me.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
So you know it prevents you from being able to
rely on like denial, like youcan't, you can't, yeah, exactly
yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
So when I, when they asked me to be a state you know
the entertainment and supportgroup I just said yeah, because
that was my comfort zone.
Being on stage talking likethis.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
I'm so relaxed and then you're not the blind,
you're not the guy that's goingblind, you're the guy that's
singing Exactly.
For the support Dude, I get it.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
So yeah.
So my kind of eureka moment wasthe night before it.
I was in bed, Amy's trying toget to sleep next to me.
I'm going over ideas of songsto sing for them the following
day, and I just had this ideawhere I thought it'd be really
cool if I could take a song thateveryone knows and change the
words and talk about myexperience with low vision
blindness.
So I chose Stand by Me by Benny.

(22:12):
Kink.
Because, well, the opening lineof when the night has come and
the land is dark and the moon isthe only light we'll see,
that's like night blindness.
So I rewrote the song in about20 minutes, changed the words,
called it Stand by Me, rp.
And when I performed it thefollowing day, that was the
first time I got that reactionof people saying to me the words
that I'd written was describingtheir feelings and all of a

(22:33):
sudden I just felt like this issomething I can do to have a
place in the world.
That's going to make adifference, because everything
I'd done in the past you knowworking as a singer and even
working in car sales to acertain point but you know
everything I'd done and alwaysinvolved making other people
feel good, yeah, be about theirnew car or performing on stage

(22:54):
and enjoying their night andhaving a good holiday or
vacation.
through my singing, it's allabout making other people happy.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
And like having that sort of like that joy that you
can share in that experiencewith that person.
Exactly, you know it's crazyabout that story is when I went
for my first guide dog, roughlythe same year, I think we're
talking 2014.
No, it was April of 2014 when Iwent for my first guide, and at

(23:22):
the guide dog school that Iwent to they the graduation my
class nominated me to say thespeech and we were all at dinner
and I was like guys, you know,we should do, we should like, we
should sing a song, and so Irewrote the lyrics to Stand by

(23:43):
Me and we all, and we all sangthat song at the graduation.
And that was a big moment for metoo, right, like you know
getting the, getting the dog andbeing like man I'm well, I
don't know if I told you withwith my guide dog, Christopher,
you know now nearly 10.
Oh, so is there a slow?
She's not almost just nine,yeah, but God.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
So when my first book , which was named after that
song stand by me right came outin your books are also also
named Stam.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Am I as well?
Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (24:15):
What's that Sorry?
the books that come after StamAm I are also named Right Stand
by me are people with only one,two and three, but the first one
really the release everyFebruary in 2016, 2017 and 2018.
But when the first one came outthe first time being an author
and having a book out, which wasa really big thing on the day
the book got released on Amazon,me and my wife Amy we're going

(24:35):
to celebrate our restaurant andI got a phone call from guide
dogs in the UK saying they'dfound a match waiting list for a
guide dog for 18 months.
Oh my gosh, the day that bookcame out that was the first day
I got told by Christopher.
I just got the Charles.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
It was crazy.
It's one thing to like rewritethose songs, to to stand by the
lyrics, to stand by me and, youknow, perform for this group,
but not everyone would see thatas like a special moment to like
stick with it, continue torefine the craft.
So how did you continue todevelop as a poet and like
entering this into this new,like era of your life?

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Okay.
So for me and you know I've onlyfigured out the answers to
these questions as I've kind ofgone through the years, and it's
obviously been, you know, 10years since I was diagnosed,
almost, and nine years since Istarted writing the poetry For
me, I've always been and I nowrealize this more than ever the
biggest empath.

(25:34):
Yeah, I have this really uncannyability to be able to put
myself in other people's shoesas well.
Yeah, so you know, if people cantell me, you know, stories of
emotions and things that they'vebeen through, and I listen to
them and feel it as if I've gonethrough it myself.

(25:55):
Yeah, so the more stories thatI would listen to and the more
poems and the more things Iwould post online from these
support groups and these RPsupport groups, the more you
know emotions and feelings andeverything that I was going for,
I'd get to them, write thepieces and then, when I started
to get that kind of sameresponse that not just people

(26:16):
were encouraged by my words andmade to feel like they were less
alone and that I was describingtheir feelings, but the biggest
thing for me that they weredoing, and they still do to this
day, is that they were using mywords as a way for them to
describe how they were feelingto their loved ones and their
friends and their family, forwhen they can't find the words
themselves and also even thepoems that are encouraging.

(26:40):
So when they read my poems tothemselves, they're reading my
words to them.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
And it's their internal voice reading my words
to encourage themselves, andthat's a really powerful thing.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Well, to hear yourself, encourage yourself
with like words that you onecouldn't find yourself, but by
going through the process it itdoesn't being a poet.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
I just I don't think that's necessarily something
that like people, just it's.
It's.
Yes, it's a skill you can build, but it's something that comes
very naturally from within you.
So when you're saying peoplelike read your poems, like when
I, when I listen to your yourpoem, like that stuff doesn't
come naturally for me, right,and so that's what makes this so

(27:26):
for me and what you're doing someaningful is because it really
does create such a space.
It just it, just it's.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
it creates words to something that doesn't
necessarily come, come to me youknow this may sound really
weird, right, but like now, I'vewritten over 3000 pieces of
poetry, right.
I've never written one that'staken me longer than 15, 20
minutes to write Exactly.
Because if it's not coming fromthe heart, it's not worth
writing.
There's plenty of poems thatI've not finished, where I've

(27:56):
started to write them and juststarted to stagger with them and
then I've gone, I'll just leaveit and get rid of it and they,
they disappear.
But the best piece of poetryI've ever written are the ones
that, literally, I get an ideain my head and it's like someone
sat on my shoulder Speaking thewords to me.
I get an idea and the wordsjust flow out of me without even

(28:16):
thinking.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
That's what makes it so magical.
I feel bad because I cut youoff.
No, no, no, no, I know.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
I know exactly what I'm going to say but, I, just
really it.
The words were poetic ended upthemselves to talk about the
other worldliness of being ableto be a conduit for the poetry.
And while you're both, you bothare and are not the writer you
know in a lot of ways that theoh, there's such a depth there
and I'm just trying to selfcensor in God where I want to

(28:41):
take the conversation, because Icould go pretty deep over there
.
But when, in any form ofcommunication, we're taking
pre-linguistic ideas andcapturing them in words and then
sharing them with another whothen hears our words or reads
our words and then internalizesthem into their own personhood,

(29:02):
right, that's just.
That's just what communicationis.
The thing with poetry, art,music specifically, is because
it is so often non-literal or issupposed to be tapping into an
emotional reality as opposed toa factual reality, that we use
more like amorphous andambiguous language, which in

(29:25):
some ways is a better conduitfor the emotions than just
describing them.
You know it's not poetry towrite down like, like a
nostalgia.
You know sentimentality,happiness, sadness, you know
that wouldn't evoke like apoetic feeling in someone.
But being able to convey theemotional reality in, for some
reason, rhyme and meter taps isable to evoke emotions in an

(29:49):
individual that they could notfeel on their own.
Oh my God, that's what you'redoing and I don't know if it's
useful to like talk aboutphilosophy, to talk about poetry
in that way.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
No, yeah, 100.
Yeah, I get it so can I just Iknow, because I know you'll edit
all this.
Yeah, I want to read yousomething and this kind of gives
you a prime example.
This is something you'veprobably you've not heard before
, but and it goes on what wewere just talking about as well.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Why would we have heard it before?

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Well, it's not one that I've posted for a while.
I have posted this.
That's exciting, but it alwaysgets a good response.
Okay, but it kind of talksabout what we've just been
talking about.
Let me just read it again.
You can take it, please do.
Yeah, there have been so manytimes that I have stood there on
the ledge, saw no way out,consumed by doubt and scarred by

(30:36):
razor's edge, but somethingkept me breathing.
There's a hidden strength in me, another piece of armor for the
days when I can't see.
I've suffered deepestheartbreak, been betrayed by
closest friend, walk cobbledstreets with all I own, with no
one to depend.
But instead of buildingbarriers, I opened up my soul
and when they called game over,gave the dice another roll.

(30:59):
I've lost so many battles, butI'm still within this war,
though pains replayed as eyesnow fade, spend days behind
closed door.
I've lost some independence,but I'm fighting to get back.
These faded scars upon my wristwill keep me right on track, no
matter what the future holds orhurt that still to come.
I'll win this life with love ofwife, my daughter and my sons.

(31:21):
I'll lead them by example.
With my cane.
I'll make them proud, for everytear has brought me here to
lift this hazy shroud.
Don't ever think that it's justyou who struggles to be strong
by blindness.
Isolated, busy places don'tbelong so many people doubting
what you can or cannot see likevision.
Friends have slipped away, aswell as family, but no need to

(31:44):
feel lonely, because there'smany like you here.
We share in every challengedface.
We share in every tear.
We all have good and bad ideas.
No need to be alone.
When you need a friend, juststand by me or just pick up the
phone, for I won't break mypromise that I have made to
those like me.
No one should feel alone withthis, consumed by how we see.
Believe me when I tell you allthis poem's message is true.

(32:07):
Just know, in darkest tunnel,I'll be standing next to you.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Oh my god, I feel like you wrote that poem to me.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
I get that response all the time.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, yeah that was so, that was so magical.
Thank you, you wrote that in 15to 20 minutes.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yeah, I'm 100, well, 3000, like it.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
To me that says that in some way there is an inherent
capability and an artist to beable to create their works in
that amount of time, or whencreating a work actually
probably almost happens in aninstant and then takes the 15 to
20 minutes for you to like openup that seed and have it sprout
into a given poem.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
And I imagine that's true with many, most, if not all
artists.
But then there's barriers thatcome in the way, that block them
in the process of bringing thatthing out.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Absolutely, and I think it's about keeping living
in the process and not havingthose barriers.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
A lot of artists perform and think we're leaning
into the barriers right, likethere's always gonna be barriers
, like life is life, but it'slike, what are we doing right
with those barriers?

Speaker 3 (33:26):
So a lot of the greatest kind of songwriters.
They write their best stuffeither at the beginning of their
journey or when they're reallystruggling and in dark places.
What tends to happen with a lotof artists is they'll change
their lives and have big houses,fancy cars and all that stuff

(33:48):
and then all of a sudden they'renot able to write about those,
the things that they used towrite about, and they lose that
artistic flow.
For me, sight loss and lowvision and the world that is
surrounding that is somethingthat I live in constantly, so
I'm in that and able tocontinually pump out the poetry

(34:08):
and write the volume that I do.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
It sounds like what you're saying is by living in
the meaningfulness of constantlyprocessing your vision loss.
It gives you the clarity to letthe art come out and not be
distracted by other things,that's exactly it and accepting
it's like.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
I believe acceptance is ongoing sort of lifelong
experience.
So it's like this ongoingaccepting that this is your
reality, you know.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, I think we all, we all.
It's a process that we neverstop experiencing.
I don't think anyone kind ofgoes with this oh, I've got the
handle on this now andeverything's good.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
I've got it, I'm good , I'm blind and I'm good and,
like that being said, there wassomething that I came across on
Facebook that actually I'm noteven friends with Amy, your wife
on Facebook, but her post came.
Oh you know why?
Because she tagged you in itand she wrote it was only a
couple of weeks ago and shewrote this incredible post about

(35:12):
this party that you guys wentto you and your family I think
it was a graduation party, maybe.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
No, it was there.
It was one of Amy's nephew's21st birthday party.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
Okay, and it was such an evocative post because it
starts out like everything wasgreat, you know, everybody was
seeing family and it's like thisgreat fun thing.
And then she saw you sitting atthe table, sitting at your table
, and I think she went in andchecked in with you and you can
tell the story, you know.

(35:48):
But and then you had said to herthis is the most disabled I've
ever felt since my diagnosis.
And I can remember like thetears streaming down my face
listening to this post, becauseI thought to myself, oh my gosh,
like first of all I felt notalone, because I thought to

(36:08):
myself, man, this guy's crushingit at life and he's doing all
this, like you know, speaking,and he's writing all this
beautiful poetry.
And then I was like there was alittle part of me that was like
, oh gosh, you know, like he'sgoing through this thing, that
like there, he's still gonnahave these moments that are hard
.
And I just was like I have totalk to Dave about this on the

(36:29):
podcast.
Like one, what was thatexperience like for you?
And two, like when you havethose moments like how do you,
how do you like, how do you getit together to be like okay,
cool, I'm gonna keep moving.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Didn't, to be honest.
So to kind of go back the partthe party was, as I said, it was
one of Amy's nephews 21stbirthday.
I'd had kind of a few differentevents and Amy had been busy
with work and you know, familystuff and school and the other.
We'd not had an opportunity tokind of be together as a family.
So we were really lookingforward to this night.

(37:01):
We got all dressed up.
You know it was a very rareoccasion for us to be all out
together to do that.
We drove over and we got thereand you know it was a kind of
small kind of club, not like anightclub, like a kind of
function room with and they hada DJ on and there was a bar and

(37:22):
we walked in and it was allfamily and it was nice and
walked in there and it washugging people and saying hello
and everything was great.
And you know I love Amy'sfamily and so relaxed with them
all the time and obviouslythey're very aware of my site
and everything else.
So I went in with my caneeveryone's saying hello to me.
I went and sat at this tableand the way the room was kind of

(37:44):
laid out it was all kind of.
There was a dance floor in themiddle and there was all tables
around the outside, but theywere kind of spaced out in the
way that it was very difficultto communicate with people on
different tables.
So you're only speaking to thepeople at your table.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Like right next to you.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
I don't know what you're like, but there's this
strange thing when you have lowvision that you know we've all
done these kind of courses andwe've heard people talk about
how much of communication isnon-verbal and when you're in a
space where it's dim light andyou're, and it's loud and you're
not able to see and pick up onpeople's body language, it

(38:22):
almost makes a person with lowvision feel like the death
because you can't see thesesignals, you're not picking up
on this massive part of theconversation so often.
You know, I've many times inthe past where I've been in
social settings and felt soisolated from groups of people
and not able to kind of join inbecause of my vision.

(38:43):
But I was fine when I got inbut as the kind of night went on
, the lights seemed to getdarker, the music seemed to get
louder, there was people up onthe dance floor enjoying
themselves and all of a sudden Ijust felt like everything was
closing in on me and my tunnelof vision got so blurry with the
flashing lights and it was soloud that I was just sat there

(39:05):
and I couldn't see who was nextto me.
I couldn't see anyone in frontof me, I couldn't hear what was
going on and I felt like I wasjust encasing this wall of blur
and sound and all I could hearwas people around me laughing
and enjoying themselves.
My son, austin, was on thedance floor dancing away and I
just felt like I'm just not apart of it and I am spoiling it

(39:32):
for everyone else and Ishouldn't be there.
And at that point it felt likeI felt like I was drowning.
I felt like I was like I needto get out of here and I didn't
want to upset anyone.
And I remember saying to Amy Isaid look, you know I'll go and
I'll go and wait in the caruntil you're done.
And she was just like we'regoing, we're going, which made

(39:58):
me feel even worse because itwas like I knew she was having a
great time, my family were allhaving a great time, and I
remember getting whisked out ofthe room as we were leaving and
people kind of saying goodbye tome and stuff, and I just felt
dreadful yeah, because peopleobviously knew that I didn't
look happy.
And I got home and I went intothe bedroom and I cried myself

(40:22):
to sleep Like sobbing, absolutesobbing.
And Amy, the blog that youwrote she stayed up till like
two, three in the morning cryingand writing that piece, to kind
of express about it, and Ididn't actually read it till the
following morning, but it wasyeah.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Your tears like the crying.
What was that for you?

Speaker 3 (40:41):
It was.
I just felt distraught that youknow I tried to be so positive
and it was just.
Like.
You know can't go anywhere andescape this feeling of this
tunnel.
Yeah, sometimes it feels, youknow yourself.
Sometimes it just feels soclaustrophobic at times you just
wanna switch it off.

(41:02):
You want to like escape fromblindness, escape from
disability, not have peoplestare at you for using your cane
.
Go out and just be, you know,just be me, just be Dave, not
the blind guy, you know, withoutthe whole room knowing and
having to feel the effect of it.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
It's almost like living and I'm speaking to you
as a person who's also goingthrough it, and I have been
through it.
I mean, at this point I havejust like light perception, but
there's like two sort of likeparts of us you know, working
together and living together atone time, which is like the part
of me that quite honestly, Idon't, you know, I feel very at

(41:41):
peace with my blindness and,quite honestly, I don't even
know who I'd be or how I'd bewithout it, which is really
interesting.
And then you're right wherethere are these moments that we
live, where it's like, you know,like this is hard right, like
this moment that I'mexperiencing and I'm like
putting myself right in thatballroom where you were that

(42:05):
night and I'm going geez, likethat, that was hard, because
it's like the dichotomy of, likethe juxtaposition, I think, is
the word actually, jacob, you'remy word guy but like of like of
being so, of experiencing suchlike a joyful experience.
Everybody around you isexperiencing joy and you're
sitting there, going and againlike I don't want this to feel

(42:27):
like therapy for people, but Ijust get it Like you just like,
oh my God, this is my own pieceof personal hell, you know.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
But do you know what I think it is for me?
Tell me, tell me, that's mybiggest problem with it all is
I'm like because, as I said toyou before, I'm an empath, right
.
I'm so like thinking aboutother people's feelings all the
time, right, that I often feellike I'm you know, we could be
in a supermarket and I'm alwayslike, am I in the way I'm stood

(42:56):
here and am I in the way ofpeople and I'm always worried
about other people that it kindof it spoils it for me.
But on the flip side of thatbecause there is always a flip
side, of course and this isworks for Amy as well One of the
coolest things is I'm at thiskind of place now, when, even
when I even have days like that,you know, the absolute worst

(43:19):
day, where you, you know,distraught with it, I can now
turn to poetry and put thesefeelings, the most you know dark
and negative emotions, turn itinto a piece of poetry, click a
button and then that story andthat poem is going to help
somebody who needed to hearthose words today and can relate

(43:41):
to those feelings that I'mtalking about.
So it's that, taking our, youknow, greatest challenges in
life and turn them into ourbiggest achievements.
It's that flipping it into apositive, which is, you know,
the thing that gets me through,because you know, and I can look
at the times that I had, youknow, when I was younger, and I
can kind of go okay, I survivedall that.
Yeah, I can survive this.

(44:03):
I know I can survive this.
I know we'll get through.
I know it won't last.
I know these feelings willchange.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
So much of the pain comes from having an emotion or
having a feeling and not beingable to connect it to yourself
or connect it to another personand feeling like you're like.
I talked to people about this alot, but it's like when you
feel like you're a block in theflow of the energy of the
universe, as opposed to aconduit of the flow of the
energy of the universe.
And that's kind of what you'retalking about when you're in the

(44:30):
grocery store and you'reworried you're in someone's way,
you know you're blockingsomeone's flow.
When you know you're at a partyand everyone's having a good
time and you're worried thathowever you're presenting
yourself is blocking people'sflow.
And that feeling, and to pushthrough that sentiment that you
are a block or that you're animpediment to someone, and
connect with them and continueto be a conduit of that flow of

(44:51):
the energy in the world, via thepoetry or via anything.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Anything is speaking, even just you talking with us
today.
I mean that's.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
To be a conduit, to be a connect as opposed to a
blockage.
I think that's what bringspeople, I don't know, the most
well-being, but that level ofany time people are connecting.
That's when people feel themost alive in connection.
There's maybe a strange in thecontext of we feel the most

(45:20):
alive when we are in connectionwith the flow of the universe.
And when you're writing yourpoetry, you are connecting
internal, emotional,pre-linguistic thoughts to
language and then connecting toother people via that language.
Yeah, there are, I'm trying tothink the best way to say this,

(45:43):
but in your emotional andliteral connection with your
wife, you've brought childreninto the world and your poetry
is your child in a lot of waysand also your literal children
are your children's way.
You can disagree with thepoetry.
As a child I saw a little.
Yeah, yeah but.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Why did he make a face?

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Yeah, a little, but it's okay.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
It's not the playing, it's not the playing Got it.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
But I know in a pre-recorded conversation that
there was and please remind me,but there was a bit of
hesitation in after yourdiagnosis and knowing that our P
is genetic, do you bringchildren into the world at that
point?
And if you're comfortable, canwe talk about that what it's

(46:28):
like to have a genetic conditionand having a child after the
diagnosis.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
And deciding right yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
So at the time of my diagnosis I knew very little
about RP.
I knew that it was genetic butwe'd not gone through the whole
kind of genetic counseling,genetic testing side of things.
So it was when I was officiallydiagnosed we went through this
process and that was when I hadblood taken and then found out

(47:00):
that the type that we've got inour family is what they call
auto somal dominant, which meansthere's a clear trace and a
wanting to chance every time achild is born that they're going
to develop it.
Now the type that I havenormally doesn't present the
first stages, which is a veryslow, gradual night blindness
from the early 20s, late teens,early 20s.

(47:23):
So I probably had that nightblindness aspect in my early 20s
but didn't actually connect itwith RP.
It was very, very slight, justthat kind of walking from a
light space to a dim limit roomand it'd take a couple of
seconds longer than a normalsighted person for their eyes to
adjust to the light.
So I had that from my early 20sbut didn't connect it to RP.

(47:45):
And then, as I said, it wasthen a very sudden dip in my
late 30s.
So when we went through thisprocess and then found out that
it's auto somal dominant and iswanting to every time.
Austin had already been born.
Obviously, ellie was at thatstage.

(48:06):
She was about seven years old.
It obviously brought a lot ofguilt.
As far as I'm concerned,there's a lot of questions, a
lot of conversations between meand Amy.
We immediately said we weren'tgoing to have any more children
and I got that taken care of.
But yeah, it's always been aguilt thing with me.

(48:33):
What if?
And it took a few years for usto get to the stage where it
inspires me to show Austin andEllie all the things that they
can do, despite low vision ofblindness, if anything was to
affect them when they're older.
But also, I had a conversationwith my local professor at my

(48:56):
eye hospital in Manchester herewho does the genetic counseling,
and he said to me look, as faras genetic testing is concerned,
the only good thing aboutgenetic testing is to be able to
tell someone that they haven'tgot it.
If they're not showing anyoutward signs, why put that
burden on them?
You know the science to lookout for.
Let them live the lives anddeal with them.

(49:17):
Because, looking back on my life, if someone had held me back
and got me tested when I wasyounger, I probably never would
have drove.
When I drove for many years, Inever would have maybe traveled
the world in the way that I did,or maybe would have had a
different life.
And actually to be free of thatburden and not let it affect me

(49:41):
until it really, you know mylife got to the point where I
could no longer be in denialwith it and no longer not let it
affect me, I had to makechanges in my life.
Looking back on that, Iwouldn't change that.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Yeah, what a tough decision, though right, to have
made.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
Yeah, really tough, and I think it's a personal
decision for everyone.
I don't think there's any rightor wrong.
I think it's down to you guysand me and Amy have got that
relationship where we just talkhonestly and open about it, and
we were on the same path and onthe same page, I should say.
And, as I said, luckily now.

(50:23):
Well, no, I'm not going to tellthe truth here.
I do kind of use everything Ido to inspire them and show them
all the things you can do, butat the same time, naturally on
the days when I'm strugglinglike, for example, the party
that we were just talking about,or just a day where I'm having

(50:46):
a bad eye day and really notgetting a grip of things, I have
this kind of thing in me goingoh man, is this going to be
something that they're going tohave to face?
And I feel guilty for that,thinking oh man, they're seeing
me struggle and they're going toremember seeing me struggle
when it's maybe their turn, andthat's a bad feeling.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
But they could also have their own experience of
seeing you struggle and alreadystart to work in their own minds
of how to overcome whateverstruggle you may be having in
the moment.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
And they'll have their own.
That's another great way oflooking at it.
And actually, if we look at thechildren of disabled parents,
every child that I've met thatcomes from a disabled parent
family are so well-rounded aspeople and I think it's so
important.
Obviously, my latest books, thechildren's series that I've

(51:38):
done Austin's Amazing Adventures, with Austin being the main
character that's about givingthat representation within
children's stories so they'd bebetter understood, and I think
that's really important for kidsto kind of I think most schools
that you go to now there'salways lots of children with
additional needs and things likethat.
So I think having that kind ofchildren who aren't affected by

(52:07):
disability or additional needs,seeing these other kids and
realizing these kids are justlike them, is really important
and I think for Austin and Ellieand my stepson Harvey and Louie
, it's partly made them thepeople they are today being
around us and my struggles andmy challenges.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
The other thing that we're not naming is that, if you
are one with a disability, thatyou cannot live a beautiful,
full life with a disability andI think that's the important
thing to name here too is thatdeciding to be a mom and have my
kids yes, it would.

(52:50):
If they ended up with RPthinking right, there would be
hardship, there would bestruggle and also the
opportunity to live a verymeaningful and beautiful and
full life, even though you alsohave a degenerative eye

(53:12):
condition.
And so, even if your kids Godforbid end up with a
degenerative disease look at thethey're still going to have an
opportunity to just haveincredible, meaningful
experiences.
I just fully believe becauselook at your life right, and
there isn't a life on the planetthat doesn't experience moments

(53:33):
of distraught moments ofstruggle, moments of hardship,
it just has a show up.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Mental health can be passed down genetically, the
struggles that we have.
So we all have challenges andit could be disability, could be
sight loss, it could be mentalhealth.
It could be lots of differentthings.
No one goes through the lifewithout facing personal and
often crippling challenges andactually it's sometimes those

(54:05):
things that make us and I'mhappy now because I wouldn't
change it.
I'm so much happier because ofthis.
As tough as it is, I wouldn'tchange it for the world.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, I feel, I truly feel the exact same way Like I,
just I wouldn't Let me tell you.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
I'm going to tell you a little short story and you
will get the analogy on thisbecause it's gray, I love this
right.
So my local park, about twominutes down the road from me, a
couple of years ago now maybeabout three, four years ago now
me and Austin it was fall, asyou call it, autumn as we say
and we were going through thepark and there was these

(54:47):
actually it wasn't, it wasEaster time, it was spring and
there was these beautiful pinkblossom trees and they kind of
go almost like an archway alongthis path and the wind was
blowing and all these pinkblossom petals were forming like
swirls all over the path.

(55:07):
They were being blown up in theair like they were dancing.
There was big swirls of themwith the wind and there was all
these parents in the parkplaying with the kids, and me
and Austin were in this pinkblossom, throwing it up in the
air and having the best time ofour lives, and all these parents
in the park with the kids werecompletely oblivious.

(55:28):
And there's something aboutlike when you are losing your
sight, how it makes you see more.
It makes you pay attention moreand appreciate the beauty of the
world around you so much more.
And if I was fully sighted, Iprobably would have missed those
moments.
And these are the moments thatI see every single day, and it's

(55:51):
because of blindness.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
This is like a totally, sometimes like the
limitations, as you're saying.
The limitations reveal thingsthat you wouldn't see if
everything's were like unbounded.
And I'm like an observantorthodox Jew and I keep the
Sabbath and everything like that, and there's a phrase among
orthodox Jews where you can domore in six days than you could

(56:14):
do in seven.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
Yes, I know very well .

Speaker 1 (56:16):
So because I don't work on Saturdays or the
holidays, it forces you to get alot more done during those six
days.
But I have felt so much moreproductive since observing the
Sabbath than beforehand andthere's just a level of like.
Time is different yeah it's notlike that.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
What are you going to get done?

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Definitely, and it's not the same thing as losing
your vision.
But I just see that there aregifts in boundaries and
sometimes those boundaries arechosen and sometimes the
boundaries are forced upon you.
But you can gain things fromboundaries regardless of what
they are.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
That's exactly it.
That's beautifully said, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
I just wanted to know where you're at.
No-transcript come to mind thatyou'd like to share.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Well, you know, we're talking about the kind of
writing poetry and how catharticit can be and the experience of
it.
One of the things I've reallyloved doing, which I hope to do
more of over the next kind ofcoming years, and it's kind of
linked in with Austin's AmazingAdventures.
Austin's Amazing Adventures,the children's book, which is a
poetry story about a youngvisually impaired boy going to a

(57:25):
mainstream school and theinteractions he has, and it's
about erasing those barriersthat a lot of children with
additional needs anddisabilities kind of feel in
mainstream schools.
At the end of each book we'vedone this kind of section called
Talking Points where we almosthave these open-ended questions
to kind of start theconversation so they can be used

(57:47):
as part of lessons in schoolsand things like that.
So I've been going into schoolsand then obviously speaking at
events for adults and children,talking about my other books.
But one of the things that I'vebeen doing at the schools and
these other events in Floridalast year is I've been doing
poetry workshops.
So one of the things I reallylove is going into groups of

(58:08):
people, whether that be peopleaffected by low vision,
blindness, disability, whatever,or people with no experience of
it, and teaching them my verysimple method of writing poetry
and getting them to express andtalk about their own challenges
and experiences.
And I've had groups of peopleand every time it works out the
same way.
I'll have groups of people whohave never written piece of

(58:30):
poetry before in their life,hate poetry don't even I, could
never do it and they hear mystory.
That opens them up.
They hear my poetry and it getsthem talking about things that
they wouldn't normally talkabout.
And by the end of it they'vecreated these pieces, these
beautiful short pieces of poetry, and they're talking about
things that they've never spokenabout.

(58:50):
I've had children who have aseverely autistic talking about
their autism for the very firsttime.
I've had people who have lostfamily members who've never
really voiced it, expressing andtalking about that.
It's been absolutely crazyseeing these things and the way
they've kind of developed andbeing in there guiding people

(59:10):
and helping them create thesepieces of poetry is just another
incredible kind of section ofwhat I yeah, you're helping
people learn how to unblockthemselves.
Yeah, yeah.
And the other thing I'm doingas well at the moment, which
I've just been doing, quite alot of his writing for campaigns
and commercials as well.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
Oh cool.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
So yeah, there's a watch you may have heard of
called the Bradley Timepiece.
I don't know if you've heard ofthat Not sure.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
I'll look it up.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
The Haxile Watch.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, with the ball the
rotates around.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, I've already written two
commercials for that now.
Oh, great which we've both onYouTube, One that just released
the other day, which is reallycool, and yeah, and obviously
you know I've written for Appleand God, Audi and Kellogg's and
Meta and yeah, it's just really,really cool.
There was nothing the other weekand I don't know if you saw

(01:00:04):
this.
If not, you need to have a lookonline because it's so cool.
There was a big Meta event Ican't remember what it was
called now For they justreleased the new the MetaQuest
headset, metaquest 3 orsomething like that Like virtual
reality thing and these glasses.
They did this kind of, you know, like Apple does, where they
have the launch of the products.

(01:00:25):
Yeah, yeah, they had Meta oneand it was Mark Zuckerberg.
Yeah, mark Zuckerberg was onstage in California somewhere
and the video at the beginningyou know of it all and I was on
the video.
Oh my gosh, the used part of theMetaClip of that video, of that
poem that you were talkingabout at the beginning.
They used it so, like they hadthis event, that was broadcast

(01:00:47):
all around the world, you know,on YouTube and online and then
obviously on the big screensthat Meta headquarters and that
there was me, you know, on stagewith Mark Zuckerberg, which is
just really yeah, there's one ofthose moments you go wow, you
know, did that just happen.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Did that just happen?
I just want to.
You know, not not everyone whofinds their calling, finds their
purpose, is going to get onstage with Mark Zuckerberg.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Yeah, it's weird.
Or get onto a podcast with Kimand Jacob.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
I'm just saying, but part of it is I just want to
name that like someone who findstheir purpose and meaning in
life could be at any strata ofcivilization in society.
You know, like wherever you are, you know who knows, who knows
what the manifestations offinding yourself are going to be
, but it does feel like, as anindication of in the ways in
which you have found yourself,that it did land.

(01:01:34):
You want stage with MarkZuckerberg.

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
One last thing, and I want to add this because I
think you'll really appreciatethis little story.
I've told this quite a fewtimes, but I want you guys to
hear it because I really love toget your take on this.
Okay, this is something thathappened to me in 2019.
I did my first USA book touralong the East coast in 2019.
And as part of that tour wasthat, in America, for about

(01:01:57):
three and a half weeks, I was inRhode Island doing two events
at Rhode Island University.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Oh my God, that's my alma mater, that's where I went
to, that's where I got mybachelor's degree, uri.
Oh, wow, okay, yes, that's themoment.
Oh yeah, dave.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
My gosh and I was doing two events, one in the
afternoon, one in the evening,and the event was an hour of me
telling my story, reading thepoetry that goes with that, and
then after that there was a Qand A and a book signing.
So all the way through thefirst session, as I'm speaking,
there was a guy in the room whowas really kind of drawing my
attention.

(01:02:30):
This guy was in his late 20s,early 30s.
He had like a high vis jacketon like a workman.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Oh, yeah, yeah, like the orange, or yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
And there was something about him that was
just kind of drawing myattention all the way through.
So after the Q and A, whenwe're doing the book signing,
there's a line of people and hecomes up in the line and I said
to him hi, what's your name?
He said oh, my name's Derek.
I said hi, derek, my name'sDave.
I said what brings you heretoday?
And he said oh, I was justdiagnosed with RP two days ago.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Wow, oh my God, I'm getting a shot.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
So I just went whoa right, okay.
I said just do me a favor asecond, just come here with me.
And I took him out of the lineand we sat at a table, held the
line up and I sat at a tablewith him and just like tell me
what's going on.
And he said well, I said I wentto the eye doctor.
He said I thought I hadcataracts.
They looked into my eye and hesaid we think you've got this
thing called retinitispigmentosa.
There's no treatment or cure.

(01:03:28):
Your kids might have it.
We loaded all this informationon him as they do, and he kind
of walked out of thisappointment with his head
spinning.
One minute is upset, nextminute is angry.
He's all this emotion going on.
He goes home, he's kind ofupset.
So he starts researchingretinitis pigmentosa online on
his computer and up pops thispiece of poetry and he reads

(01:03:51):
this poem and as he's reading itand this is him telling me this
, as he's reading it all thisthing, all these things that had
happened to him over the yearsof his life, started to make
sense to him.
Yeah, and he just kind of gotreally emotional.
And anyway, that day his wifewas in work.
Oh, he was in work, and hiswife called him and she said

(01:04:13):
you're never going to believethis, but Dave Steele's in
America.
And not only is he in America,he's in Rhode Island.
And he walked straight out ofhis work and he came straight to
see me, oh wow.
I'm going to cry, and we'restill friends to this day.
I met him for the first time Iwas doing an event in Florida
last year for FoundationFighting Blindness, with.
Amy came out and Austin camewith me and he came and met us.

(01:04:35):
So shout out to Derek, it wasgreat.
Yeah, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
You know it's like people are going to find you,
dave, find your poetry, yourcommercial, whatever it is, your
books, our podcast, right whenit's like magic, right when they
need it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Well, yet a couple of days ago I don't know if you
know a couple of days ago it wasa White Cane Awareness Day.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
I did, yeah, I did know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
Yeah, yeah.
So I shared a poem that I wrotelast year and I don't know if
I've told you about this.
I wrote a poem last year calledA Cane's Perspective and the
idea was it was talking abouthow we all go through this
process of trying to come toterms to use an ability aid, and
a lot of us don't use it asmuch as we should do.
We have it folded up in ourhands, we leave it at home,

(01:05:23):
we're ashamed, we're embarrassed, we you know all this kind of
thing we go through, but it's aprocess that not it's not talked
about often enough and a lot ofpeople you know really need to
understand this, right at thebeginning of their journey,
decided to write a poem from theperspective of a mobility cane.
So in the cane, in the poem.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
It's the cane talking .

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
Yeah, and I shared it , you know, again for White Cane
Day a couple of days ago and myphone has been going crazy
since it's had.
Now I think we're up to justshort of 200,000 views on one
post and it's been posted on afew different places.
On one post on Facebook I thinkit's had like nearly 2,000

(01:06:04):
shares.
I've had mobility instructors,O&M instructors, from all over
the world saying they'reprinting out and passing it to
their clients.
I had a school teacher from ablind school message me last
night and saying that she'd putit into Braille for all the
students.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
All there and it's just.
You know, those moments kind ofjust go wow, you know that's
crazy.
Did I read it to you?

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
No, why don't?
Why I think that's a reallybeautiful place to sort of close
is why don't?

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
you?
Yeah.
Do you want me to read it toyou?

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Yeah, I'd love that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
OK, yeah, let me read to you now.
You'll like this.
Ok, this is a Keynesperspective.
Ok, you're not the only onewho's felt embarrassed to be
seen outside walking with me.
This, for many, has always beena part of the whole process is.
Together we will train, but intime you will realize you'll
soon be proud again.
I'm made to give you back thethings that you may feel you've

(01:06:57):
lost, like pride andindependence, all the things
that blindness cost.
I'm not a sign of weakness.
I'm a reason to be proud.
Alleviate anxiety whilst you arein a crowd.
Sometimes I'm left behind orfolded up inside your hand, but
I'll be ready for you.
I won't judge.
I understand, I know.
These things are natural.
It's the way that people starewhen you can still see some

(01:07:19):
things, but for blindness, youprepare.
You don't need to see nothingto be able to use me.
That's not the way thatblindness works.
It fades so differently.
I'm here to be a signal and asymbol that you're strong, a
reason not to isolate, a reasonto belong.
So when you're feeling ready,I'll be with you, day or night.
Unfold me, hold me confidentand swipe me left to right.

(01:07:41):
Eventually you'll come to terms.
Our partnership remain.
It's me and you forever.
I am your mobility cane.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Oh my God, I have like tears in my eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Dave, if someone came and sat next to the 19-year-old
you on that bench before youclimbed up that tower and said
this is the life you can have,even shows you images, pictures
of it, your children, yourcareer, you on stage with Mark
Zuckerberg, really shows youyour life and says the price for

(01:08:15):
this life is losing your vision, how do you respond as that
19-year-old young man?

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
In a heartbeat.
I'll take it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
I think so often when someone's in the midst of that
adversity, they don't realizehow they will lose something via
the adversity, but they'll gaintheir life on the other side of
it and I really hope ourlisteners who are going through
adversity can just hear that ifthey hold on long enough and
they continue to fight, they cangain their own life and a new

(01:08:45):
life and perhaps a more lifealigned to their core self on
the other side.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Absolutely.
Thank you, dave.
So much for coming on.
And yeah, it's been a real,real, real blessing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
OK, I'm going to end the recording now.
Thank you so much.
Ok, but I'm not hanging up, sothank you.
Yeah, yeah, no.
Thank you so much for listeningto today's episode.
If anything in today's episodespoke to you, please like,
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Most importantly, make sure toshare today's episode with

(01:09:22):
friends and family.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
And if there's anybody that you know that you
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Finally, if you want to knowmore about our mental health
practice, intuitive counselingand wellness, please check us
out atintuitivecounselingoffillycom.
Dear eyes, baby eyes.