S05E14 - PTS Growth - Damien Mullen (ex NT/VIC POL) pt 3

In part 3, the final segment of our chat, Damien (ex NT/VIC Pol Senior Constable ) opens up about the darkest periods of his PTSD, including being housebound and overwhelmed by guilt and shame. He describes his experience with suicidal thoughts and attempts, and the profound impact of feeling like a burden to his family. 

A key turning point for Damien was a moment of empathy he felt while watching a press conference, which sparked a flicker of hope. This realisation led him to actively seek out recovery strategies, including mindfulness, breathwork, and self-education. 

Andy and Damien discuss the importance of building a personalised toolkit of coping mechanisms, the ongoing journey of managing mental health, and the potential for post-traumatic growth.

Key Takeaways

1. The Emotional Toll of PTSD: The intense feelings of guilt and shame can make individuals feel like a burden to their loved ones, often leading to suicidal ideation.
2. Finding Hope in Unexpected Places: A seemingly small moment of empathy or connection can spark a significant shift in mindset and provide a critical lifeline.
3. Importance of Self-Education: Learning about mental health, neuroplasticity, and recovery strategies can empower individuals to take control of their healing journey.
4. Developing a Personalized Toolkit: Identifying and implementing personalized coping mechanisms, such as mindfulness, breathwork, and gratitude practices, can significantly improve mental health.
5. The Role of Support Systems: Having a supportive community, including family, friends, and mental health professionals, is crucial for recovery.
6. The Journey of Recovery: Recovery is a continuous process that involves both setbacks and progress; resilience and persistence are key.
7. Embracing Vulnerability: Being open to trying new methods and acknowledging one’s vulnerabilities can lead to significant growth and healing.
8. The Impact of Peer Support: Connecting with others who have similar experiences can provide hope and practical guidance for managing PTSD.
9. Self-Compassion: It's essential to practice self-compassion and not compare one's trauma or recovery process to others.
10. The Power of Routine: Establishing a daily routine that includes self-care activities can help maintain mental stability and promote long-term wellness.

Contact -  Damien Mullen
Help Lines Open Arms (VVCS) | Lifeline | RedSix app

"RESPECT, NO POLITICS, WE'RE VOLUNTEERS"

Disclaimer: The accounts and stories are "Real lived experiences" of our guests some of the content may trigger Post Traumatic Stress (PTS) symptoms in some of our audience. Feedback regarding other organisations, courses and initiatives remains largely unsensored. Whether its good or bad they remain the OPINION of our guests and their experiences it is important in building an accurate statistic on what really happens. 
During the course of our conversations sometimes sensitive information may be accidentally mentioned, as such, Invisible Injuries respects the law and sensors any information that may breach Operational Security OPSEC

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Episode Transcript

Claire Fermo (00:04):
Welcome to invisible injuries podcast,
aimed at bettering the wellbeing and mental health
veterans, first responders intheir immediate support
experiencing post traumaticstress. By sharing the stories
of the lived experiences of ourkids, or support staff and the
clinicians, it's our aim to makesure we can have a meaningful

(00:27):
connection with our audience,and give them the ideas for
their own self care plan. If youdo like what you're hearing,
subscribe to the channel andshare it with your friends.
Lastly, these stories may be atrigger for your post traumatic
stress. If your PTSD istriggered, we have links to

(00:48):
support in the description. Orif it's immediate, please call
lifeline on 1311 14 Here's yourhost, Andy fermo.

Andy Fermo (01:02):
And so were those things that you said and you did
you mentioned suicide before andthen before we hit record you
had mentioned you've mentionedthat like an incident before are
we leading up to that or are wedoing need to dial back in the
timeline to what's going onthere? Because obviously you're
bedridden you'll know your housesorry house read you your your

(01:23):
house bound from your situationand you know, you felt that you
were starting to become a burdenYeah, these things that the
reports have said becoming partof that system and then from a
father and a person point ofview from you from your
viewpoint is that you weren'tbeing the husband that you
thought you should be or dadthat you should be and all these

(01:46):
other things give me your I'mgoing to be these people will be
better off without me over timewith those things playing in
your head

Damien Mullen (01:53):
you got on my my wife, Tom, she's fallen out the
ladder, her school or gettingpromoted and doing really well
despite the circumstances andkind of like she's she's
incredible and once they leaveschool and now and mawatha work
you got the rest of the day atharm point guard in your own
head and PTSD use just a cycleof negative thoughts and

(02:16):
negative emotions and negativebad feelings when you're playing
a song on the bait and neighbourbut a negative song with
negative emotions and have justme stuck in addicted to that
lock on to that one and thethings that PTSD is toxic it
feels comfortable in theuncomfortable and feel see
hockey star won't probably goany hint or when this my

(02:39):
recovery but it's hard torecover because the healthy
sometimes in their recoveriesthe unknown feel as off Deacon
here, goodness again, and thatfew and bad because you used to
deal on seeking impressed andguilty and shame and all these
sorts of things. So

Andy Fermo (02:55):
that's defined you they did getting that mindset,
that of that being in thatsituation. And that's my
definition of what's

Damien Mullen (03:01):
Mainau tollemache I mourn because I was in I was
on sleep in two or three hourseven with some medication I was
on put me on feta mean, so I wason Dex six decks a day. Sorry, I
was trained as a speed Yeah,cupping cool a drum taker. And
the only difference is I'mgetting it from the pharmacist

(03:22):
and they're getting it fromsomeone around the street. So
often depth information duringthe day and plus ebonite Tom
stone three or four volumes tocome down and so on. Until about
I know you talk about an up anddown cycle that knows what that
is a plus or anxiety andeverything like that to normal

(03:45):
volume and um, yeah, yeah. Andbut even still on, developed to
stand out couldn't talk on herif you've spoken to any any
others that really does suggestthat you can't finish sentences,
data, couldn't read more.
Everything that I used to beable to do is taken away none of
that had that burden. I feltlike it was a burden on the

(04:07):
family. Yeah, I got to the pointlike I obviously tried it a few
times to learn more but notreally. I was led to the sarcoid
a couple of times I spent fourweeks in corporate waiting mode
seven eight which is like a indetermine if you've heard of
that. And that's yeah, so that'sno it was the no chicken meds in
that but it's such a it's anenvironment where there's no

(04:29):
triggers or AFN warfare, such asterile environment. So it's
good for full waste and you geta bit of a bribe to police
family gets a break. Then youget back out in the world and
you still have to deal with whybecause you hear noises and all
this other stuff. But yeah, thebig turning point, I think
because it goes who are in mysituation away from feeling like
a lot of guilt shame in that,which I still had. But I went to

(04:53):
feeling nothing, or I didn'teven have any emotions. I was
just now miles numb to air Readthe nose down to I still love
mochi and mobile offunconditionally. But I was numb
to that. Because I was odd. I'vechecked out. I've completely
checked out. And then I'd dealwith it worked out. So this was
2018. Together. Kinane. Yeah, so2018 toes 20 Because masa to get

(05:16):
it kind of sounds good. He gotto the point where it's no
longer get any better evidencehad. Dan was gonna hit old
enough to take the kids overEaster. So Easter was down
dirtier than I believe that Paulcould find out with 30 of March
and more Wofford scheduledeither half marathon or some big

(05:42):
run with a friend. I'd chosenthat data to end it like I wrote
my book, I wrote a note to mykids and my wife and to everyone
that helped me like I keepsaying I had so much help assist
that point or thought orcouldn't get by trying to have
an enrolled. This is so whowould know was hard. A

(06:05):
frightened letter that wastough. And saying goodbye to mom
and dad picked him up? Becausehe didn't know obviously not
going to some college for thatwould be the case when blossom
or solo that she was the she sheknew that I was probably going
to be but she she helped a lot.

(06:26):
But I think yes, she was hopingshe was really hard. And she
sent me a text. Yes. And then sothey will go on to the weekend.
I got picked up on on that theday before on the Friday. The
third day from a Dan said thebottom and I was I've never seen
again and they're gonna sayMica. Then my wife. My wife knew

(06:47):
that I'd shut down and she hadtried so many times. And that
she was just assumed and she gotto the point where it was just
like this is it. It's teachingyou that is wild and at the
time. There was there was adouble tampering situation with
each fan cricketers gonna laughIt is like it's crazy that this

(07:07):
thing bothered me but I waswatching Steve Smith got sent
home from wherever he was athave crossed something off to
the ball tampering and I wasworking on the cast my water she
was sitting next to me on andtouched her or anything I just
on completely to death. And hehad his press conference. And in

(07:29):
that press conference they gotglare if you remember but he
spark had been he's holding backkeys or he cried in for a beat
and then and then that stupidperson came on down from lock
call Nigel Chios showing lockedisn't it was kind of stupid
question. Maybe go to a salon,where he spoke it and he he sits
up then in response. He said, Atalam you're thinking about

(07:52):
making a questionable decision.
Think about the you'reaffecting. And for some reason
that for tomorrow I saw her athow to lay that on Walker, he'd
be watching something that wouldtrigger it that was the first
time I felt a true emotion,whether that be sadness or NFN
being months, and a D look. Ifelt hot decreases trihard. I

(08:15):
was sumps pretty sure I wastrying. And at that point who is
the fairest and more for myparents, my wife and kid they're
not going to be happy. Who isthis that trigger? And then what
second, then I've got any datacan be on they're going to be

(08:35):
devastated eRepublik de la de ifI'd had more light then it
didn't fix everything. But itwhat it did is gave that. And
that's all that's all you needis to be here before you can
change that and right. So thatnext day for hearts, I think I
gave my wife a hug after that,which is the first time I'd

(08:59):
given her a hug for a while. Andthen she went for a run Oh,
still and the following day. Butit made me think about her. And
then at that point I was giventhis one more chance and I went
back to the psychologist my nextdeployment so hold on weekly
that Tom. And I think she wassurprised to be to say me, and I
told her about it no asset ongiving her one more chance for

(09:22):
more cooking get better at thatpoint. Something clicked and I
just I then started changing myGoogle from how to do bad things
and to lock line a bad pay testthat you could put on TED
podcast for the first time. AndI was up, started searching
podcasts and started listeningto lock how people have

(09:43):
recovered or learning more aboutPTSD and who was the first time
that I'd heard the wordneuroplasticity? How's off
somewhat your brain can changeyou learn new things and you're
not Does it just stuck in it?
It's malleable, it's it canchange, you can get better. And,

(10:06):
and then what I did is every dayis like treated the day like a
work date, listen to podcasts,and I would just search or
listen to one. And I'd writedown some words that meant
something or I wanted to learnto be more not just certain

Andy Fermo (10:18):
reflections. Yeah.

Damien Mullen (10:21):
Gratitude and gratitude, both alpha male data
off now we're on what calls andof gratitude ones without this
no complete gratitude podcastand then, and then I've been
implementing stuff and led byWim Hof, correct?

Andy Fermo (10:37):
Yes, we absolutely did the

Damien Mullen (10:39):
Wim Hof Method.
And that was one of the big onesthat helped him a lot for him.
Just that I think that's onethings from bein perfect victim
accepting things. Yes, we cansee bad things happen. Bad
things that happen I'd have togo to high ima that Dipper
report and accept it. Take itand I get it. I was at a point.

(11:00):
But then when I was recovering,I'm off. Now you can take
control SOS times have takencontrol and and that slipped in
the

Andy Fermo (11:09):
screws? This grid man. And that's the big on our
pause here for a second. Becausethanks for sharing that. And
there's definitely people in ouraudience, whether they're a
military poor as a firstresponder, just sharing those
suicidal ideologies. Yeah. Andbecause you can be in that
situation that I'm that I'mhearing that you've just that
you've just shared with yourstory is feeling that isolated

(11:32):
that that being in that state,and that the decision making
process, the cognitive processthat you spoke about, and being
long term use of meds and thatthese things in your situation
that you mentioned, can then youcan have this spiralling and you
mentioned with the googlingbefore, it's like how can I do
bad things? And when I want toclarify that for the audience is
like, How can I research ways tosuicide? Yesterday? And how do I

(11:57):
do these things? And when you'regoing to these bits and going
I'm having these ideologies, thefeelings stronger in terms of
how am I going to do it? Becauseit can go from a ideology and
the thought, which you mentionedto actually okay, how am I going
to take some action? What am Igoing to do? When am I going to
do it? You spoke about thesethings? And then that trigger

(12:17):
moment will not be enlighteningmoment. I'd rather say in that
point. And what is that flickerof light and hope that we've
spoken with them with gueststhat have also done the progress
that I've said that that wasthat little glimpse of that
small window? To be able to gothat's pro life right there. You
know what I mean? That wassomething there that sort of

(12:38):
triggered something. But itsparked something inside you. So
I'll differentiate from thetrigger? Yes, yes. In a
different way. Like

Damien Mullen (12:47):
the law. Yeah, that's one to writing a letter.
And so it's, I wouldn't be here.
My note,

Andy Fermo (12:53):
I'm gonna call you out on that. Damn it, do it, do
it, man, to

Damien Mullen (12:57):
get the whole woman, a woman. No one was real.
And yeah, and then

Andy Fermo (13:02):
when it sparks something there and in your
case, that emotion to be able topro life that something doesn't
it's not gonna be the magicalpill that says, hey, Damien,
your fix now because you'veheard this, but I still felt
like shit, but I'm actuallyfeeling something now. Right? I
was numb the day before. But nowthat sort of sparks on emotion,
and that's something and thengoing ongoing to now. Take this

(13:28):
situation that I'm in spoken toyou sharing that with your
specialist or even with? I'm notsure whether you shared that
with your wife straightaway, orwas that some time we could get
to that? I'll let you thinkabout that. Right. But your
spoken reading specialist, theywere surprised to see that
happy. But then you startedtaking things into your own
hands in terms of I can havesome post traumatic growth. How

(13:48):
can I do this? Now? I'm going toeducate myself on this
situation. Fuck neuroplasticitywhat does that I can change
doesn't matter with thesereports said that I'm always I'm
going to be a victim and have tostay here in this loop. Or I can
actually come out of the loopout of the hopper, bang, and
then start and it's not an easyprocess. But I'm going to look

(14:10):
at these things. Now. What's apodcast? Okay, let's look at
this gratitude. Okay, what doesthat mean? And what does it mean
to me? Am I finding myself andhow can I apply this to what my
values are? And then startapplying that to the people the
immediate support around me?
What does that look like? And sothis is where we're getting to
this point. Now where you'vesaid, Okay, I've found Wim, Hof.
breathwork pranayama, and yoga,right, that's, it is big, and

(14:35):
it's deep. And these are thosethese processes around what
you're saying? The ice baths,the breathing. What was it when
you started doing? I'm assumingthat you're practising your
regular breathing now yourbreath work and your cold bath
because it releases a lot ofemotions, right? Oh, I'm doing a

Damien Mullen (14:55):
lot. What are we kicked away? I was raised on no
command fan. Boys don't do somethings. And I love football
clubs. I'm still involved inocean Ridge football club here,
and I love it. But if those,there's some toxic traits that
you can pick up, not as fastthese days, but back in the day

(15:15):
when I was younger, I'm playingand you would never try yoga,
you would never drive ormeditation, mindfulness teams
like that mock self hypnosis, wedid a lot of self work. That was
one of the better ones at work.
When you get to a point where heany sometimes you need to craft
and I was crushed, I was at rockbottom and really reborn, where

(15:36):
you get to a point we are,what's happening now is not
working. Some more thoughts willall get better. Oh, didn't work
and harder. Oh, work at home. Sotoday, I'm going to smash myself
on the treadmill, I'm going tosmash the gym. And then that's
all workout. That's not smart.
Peter, and I'm going to talkTurkish I think if I just look

(15:58):
fit and healthy, you can obeyfit and healthy, but it was
luck. Nobody's out work and andI reached a point where I needed
to reach rock bottom. And therock bottom was a point where I
was open to other things. Andthose other things were like
more in Hall, yoga, meditation,mindfulness, and it opened my

(16:21):
eyes to can different ways andself love stuff, things that I
would have just looked at andshook my head. When you get to
the point where you've reachedand you hit rock bottom, and so
he can deliver the name and walkyou where it was, is

Andy Fermo (16:37):
it any worse than this the only time the other
thing that's worse than this isactually

Damien Mullen (16:43):
suicide. But that seemed like a good result. What
a boost was Porb and when whenhe got none, and and you feel
like you're a burden that that'swhen you can get that rule
strong suicide, quite a wholepipe theology. And if you can,
some hope this can get betteryet and take where the more

(17:07):
work, the better the end resultis. But yeah, I need to just
hurry up and wordneuroplasticity might not have
had anything to do withanything. But what it did, it
gave me a bit of hope, whichallowed me to put a wedge in the
spiral that was every day, likeI keep saying every single day
was just on repeat was like allthe new thoughts and all that

(17:30):
the wage with a little bit ofhorror that allowed me to do
something new, and try somethingnew. And then I'll read or I
listened to a podcast with Dr.
Joe Dispenza. Now yes, yeah,yeah, and how to think he does a
bit of luck. He talks abouthypnosis as well, but gratitude
and what I see to create whatmeditation, how belief is

(17:50):
LinkedIn, if thoughts are linkedin with emotions, and tied to
beliefs, and, and then saw thepeople leave, you can't get any
better. And you had thosenegative emotions and, and all
that and we think 60 to 70,000thoughts and I formulate that
but that that's what they say 60to 70,000 thoughts every day.

(18:15):
And then negative and your autopilot, which you are when young
not gone very well, you know,thinking consciously. So Saucony
one thought leads to anotherthought which is all negative
one negative emotion leads tothat negative emotion. Yes, you
got to somehow flip that script.
Yeah. And that's what I like todo. Called it cow I got out of

(18:39):
that. And

Andy Fermo (18:40):
out of that situation, the mindset, that's
the, that's a lot of that'smindset. And you mentioned that
before you can be as healthy andKickAss. There. That's the
external that's your externalpersona. That's what you're
projecting out. But that's selftaught that's inside internally,
the belief in yourself the newthat neuroplasticity, when you
actually looking at these, I'mopen to these other way. Other

(19:03):
methods or other modalities thatmight and you mentioned before,
okay, this is one of the onesthat have worked this is, but
you have to try them, right.
It's just like if I'm, I'll usepharmaceuticals just as a bit of
an example. Okay, we don't knowthat that's working, that's not
working? Well, let's just trythis. Try this one. That's from
something that you have to takethat alters your body chemistry,
but when we're talking aboutthis post traumatic growth and
educating yourself in this, I'mgonna try these things, and

(19:26):
maybe not everything's gonnastick. I might actually
gravitate towards this and this,but I'm open to trying it now.
And this is what you weretalking about with that wedge,
right? And then doing the workyourself. And you mentioned
before, in the report says ourDamien will never work again.
And and I'm not, I'm not I'm nota clinician by any means or
anything like that. And comingfrom that sort of lived

(19:49):
experience and connecting withwhat you're saying. I'm not
meant the work when people go infor me and just I'm just going
to just segue from thatsituation that you were just
talking about because this Isthat connection that I'm feeling
from what you were just sayingis that when people go, Whoa,
what are you doing for you whatI'm actually working on myself
and the work in terms of whatyou're doing, that's a lot of

(20:09):
work that you need to do, youneed to put in those hard yards,
no one else can do it for you.
And I'm working on myself to beable to do this. And it doesn't
say that it's going to bepretty, like the prettiest
picture here. But I'm working onthis to be able to improve my
situation from when it wasyesterday. And I might a better
person ever had some growth fromyesterday and all might fall

(20:29):
down a little bit. But I'mworking on that growth there.
And I'm actually actuating thatI'm grabbing the balls by the
grabbing it by the reins andtaking control. Yeah. And that's
what you're saying, right?
Because that's what I'm feelinghow many of the works that work
here. And then that family workthose other bits and pieces. But
when you're doing that, work onyourself that self self love
that has so much potential inthat growth. Yeah.

Damien Mullen (20:54):
And you got to find what works for you. Drop
the core fan lock, hold on. Alllock things that are pretty
deep, do lock mournfulness, butthen I did I did a lot of it,
because what are you I justgrabbed a bunch of Donna. Yeah,
throw more data forward and thenunlock something that's gonna
stick. We're not taught thingson oil did the Wim Hof Method

(21:15):
plus and I added in yoga, addedin mindfulness, but it's an Bach
breathing because Wim Hoffreedom I really liked but it
does put you in a sympatheticstate. But yeah, then you
parasympathetic state. Oncewe're done with breath, hold the
Wim Hof Method. It's more heteaches you that you can take

(21:36):
control of your body. Yes,autonomic system is not
automatic and does that you areactually in control of that.
It's the more it is thebreathing. I locked the
breathing. I don't still do it.
I do it every now and then. Andthe cold showers I call Lockton,
third dome all the time. Butit's more than message that he

(21:56):
sends it just then take control.
And that was what I needed. Andthat along with Dr. Joe
Dispenza, do we call us oranything but I listened to a few
of these podcasts, none tookthat on board and lock, you can
take control but you have tochange your beliefs. Yeah. And
you have to change your beliefyour emotions, and not give

(22:18):
thoughts and be conscious thosethoughts. And then we got into a
lot of not just on YouTube lostconfidence. self hypnosis,
really worked to talk about alot of a lot of your thoughts
are unconscious. So if you cando hypnosis, it's akin to
unconscious mind. Alright,that's true. But that seems to

(22:39):
me what like a work. So thatcould be the placebo effect. And
it could work but whatever.
How's it worked for you? Thatmindset of looking give me this
one more show taking control.
And that that took a whilestill. So we're talking like
Model X to their vein. By cottoncurrently now off medication.
I've been off medication since2002. That was March 2008. And

(23:03):
I've been off communicationsince 2019. was more broadly for
God. It happened. Swallow butprobably quick to a lot of
people that are some people thatare listening to this Aki Nee
nee is no better not to lie inbed, but I'm not cured because
everyone's working on theirmental health, physical health

(23:26):
that will never feed on it. Andthen your only feet because
you've just gone for a run andhit your alley strong because
you just lift the white CPU notmentally healthy. Unless you're
doing conveniently now to workon the rental out there. Yeah,
but he was. He did. Yes. I tookmy job as getting better. And

(23:47):
are aboard into that. No, Ilistened to my mind two months
of podcasts, all different typesto learn and educated myself by
birth investor University inpsychology who was to become a
psychologist, but then it didn'twork out. And then yeah, and
then prior to moving to Perth toPerth into desert ordain. So

(24:10):
between side might say Matt 29thwas my third key turnaround
point. We had a mindset change.
From there in 2019, it was justsmall increments. I always say
it's two steps forward. And itwas audits on Wednesday. But it
was always one step forward prosone step forward, and then it

(24:32):
was probably a dangerous periodgetting better too because we
went from like I was saying offthe day. He gets really used to
feel a negative. Yeah, they'reset for motions. Yeah, they are
that safe and 120 My goodness, Ithought I'm gonna do single
mites. So it was a Sunday or aterrace and I was watching some

(24:52):
Cricket was all night and I hada couple of bees within. I
wasn't drunk right then. Bye Ijust had a fantastic day because
this love talking to my mateswhich in cricket it's a good
small country cricket becausewe're all just an Iran and just
talking and then having achampion of God home the biggest
smile on my face and our stigmasof those the first time I felt

(25:15):
good in what felt law forgetabout would have been a year of
sorry, but I would eat that barfrom myself because whiskey was
so foreign to feel good that Iwas going off to myself come
with alpha and good kick intohospital again and stitched up

(25:36):
and sectioned on a good daddyand the doctors are asked me why
to do this. And Mark Don'tworry, I just couldn't handle
feeling good I felt guilty forfeeling good. There are more
calm not use their mobile phoneto someone to come in their
battle bathroom bottle ourmouths fell into good diet from

(25:57):
what I did. And move on until mymind didn't my boyfriend my mate
and he met me at the hospital.
And he's just had a great dayand I know Tao things for me
anyway loved everyone'sexperience is different but was
part of the process like ofgetting Beto off that death.
There was one that was trisysFord. Yeah. All right. I may

(26:21):
have self harmed. But it waslike it was a good day. So
Monday, got back on the nextday, and she was in hospital.
And then he didn't know that thelaw was eventually started
Hadlock good moments as I'vegone had a good morning during
that morning turns into an youknow, maybe a full day. But then
you have a bad day the next day,but there's a good day to follow

(26:43):
and the day before. Yeah, at thetime, sometimes that's hard to
take. And then it would be agood couple of days. But then
you have a bad day and thedangerous moment as well.
Because you're like, Oh my God.
I'm not going back. Oh my god,you don't know. Or I didn't have
confidence in myself and mybrain and my ability to lock
maintain my mental health so wasreal rocky. Yeah. But then from

(27:09):
that process, I would continueto do all those things. I set my
day up like I would get up inthe morning have a glass of
water with some lemon in it andsome to brighten up salt
clubhead don't look good. Yeah.
And then I would go into a niceworkout wasn't a workout to go,
I'm gonna I'm gonna just smash.
Then I would do my breathing andthen I'll do the things and then

(27:32):
it'd be 10 o'clock and then thelock port. Hey, good morning.
And then maybe that continuesmaybe a telethon. But then it
would be lock to adding thingsin place. But with breaking the
habits that are had, which wasspiralling every day. Yeah. And
and that's deep the process fora lot of people it was for me
and it just turned from days toweeks to months and touch ward

(27:55):
off or on any more than severalcultures was the legend. She
knew when she was working withme with all this and then she
saw Do you can get off yourmeds. I think you're ready and
which was pretty damn for Vicki.
She not want stronger thanthree, eight. But yeah, I'm
conscious. And the medication Iwas on. I was on the decks

(28:18):
amphetamines is an antipsychotic, anti depressant and
pre valium a day. Someone toldme someone pointed me to CBD
oil. And this is just my thirdchoice four minutes and when I
should do but most of us haveAlright, then it was long enough
to get on the black marketnearly because that was before

(28:41):
it started more mainstream as inthe good fair. All the stuff
that is good for so I gotstarted. I just got one bar it
was $500 hellish. Yeah. And itwas a decent size bottled air
sister was just to help me getoff all my medication and in
vital was off that I'm no longertied to God. I had one bottle.

(29:02):
And I was really good. Agile.
allowed me to get off all mymedication. And then so since
then I've since to desert it offand off, get all my medication.
And then since moving, wedecided to move here just to
some pro change, I haven't seena psychologist since moving.
Yep, in fact, welcome data toput things in Python

Andy Fermo (29:24):
to continue. You've got your you've got your systems
in place now coping mechanismsand your vendor tools. Yeah. So
what from what you're saying.
And let me I want to just unpackwhat you just said and
paraphrase what you've said,because there was quite a lot
there, Damien, is that over thistime when you're actually going
and getting better? A good day,even though there are the bad

(29:45):
bits where you have to takethose steps backwards is like
the sun is that you're stillmaking a positive step forward.
Yes. And you have to put theselittle checks in place though if
you're feeling allowing yourselfto say hey, actually I can. It's
okay to feel emotions that arenot negative emotions these are
positive emotions and the morethat you get from this and the
more you do it you just I'mworking out this mental I've got

(30:08):
a belief and I'm working on mymental thing whatever that might
be. So in your case that's whatyou were doing right? Someone
else's case might be differentbut in what you're saying is the
message is that those constantthings that you're working on
self consistency over time andthen putting something that
works for you that you're that'sworking that you can connect
with over time moving forwardeven though you do take those

(30:31):
steps backwards gets to a pointright and then there's a scary
point this other tipping pointwhere I might have to go well
fuck I'm gonna have to get offthese other in your case the
meds that can be puttingyourself in this vulnerable
state then right because itchanges a lot of body chemistry
as well coming off prolonged useof your Dexys and then you know

(30:51):
obviously the valiums as wellthen they're totally different
right so you're changing thosebody chemicals from having to go
on taking something to selfregulate now to I'm using my own
mechanisms that I've taken andput in place whatever that might
be for an in your case studies

Damien Mullen (31:12):
because sands law did Gentile get up they did his
own thing and ban him so yeah, Isaid that side has learned I was
trying to alter the universitycourse nearly at home with
podcasts and Uniview than thatand like a month can dump there
are so many so much educationalstuff out there cure like you
can actually listen to lecturesthat I was buying textbooks and

(31:35):
reading textbooks or what I wasdoing beforehand is always
replacing the chemicals that bymedication was providing me with
behaviours that I'd knowprovided the US and Canada face
a wasn't just oh I'm starting tofeel better older get off on my
meds and I'll be fine becauseI'm made forever through one

(31:56):
day. Yes, we're talking now ifthis is months third probably
March this has made it intoprobably a year like it's
probably law a full year maybeeven a bit longer light at the
road off the medication becauseI was off the meds just before I
got here notice Tober 2019 iswhen I when we moved here.

Andy Fermo (32:18):
Thanks for clarifying that made because
then that's a very important bitof gold there that you've got
for yes, and then you're notdoing cold turkey you're
replacing one for one and thisis that was very important for
our audience that are out there.
So that's good, man. Becausethis is bad chatting about and
once

Damien Mullen (32:31):
again like these are just more Yeah, I have my
beliefs and I don't ever want topush anything on now. No, I'm
not like anti medication or no.
So what I needed to not only amhope met many more sets. So I
was I had panic attacks. Wereall on the floor lock just
shaking block from the diningroom. floor lock dough, crazy
panic attacks, and anxiety.

(32:57):
Moments in the depthsamphetamine don't have made it
have said this super strong andsolid feel good during the day.
And I actually worked at thetoday and I was like, feeling
really bad and would do it likeself harm. Yes. And actually for
a period of time he can'tbecause he feels so good. He
just thought oh, hell goodslife. And so there were for a

(33:20):
reason. But reason running, wellcould then do it with

Andy Fermo (33:25):
different tools you had different coping and at
absolutely, and thanks forsharing that bit as well,
Damian, because I think there'sno golden bullets, that's gonna
cure any one thing. But whatyou're saying is that you found
a way for your particularsituation that gave you the same
body chemistry effect of takingsomething that was chemical and

(33:46):
then over time this has trainedover time so that for the
audience that's listening overtime, slowly you are replacing
something like I'm doing there'sa series at the moment with our
podcast ministry mix I call itstupid Kansas, right if he's
Yeah, so he's wondering, so outof the five he calls it coping
badly, right. So the copingbadly over this thing is kind of
like I'm coping, I'm movingforward. Is it going to be great

(34:09):
over the long run? No, but is ithelping me for today and for
this particular point where I'mat in my journey? Yes, yeah. So
that's the coping right? So thatyou're saying but then I've
gotten these other tools nowthat are actually a better tool
that allows me to do this andit's gonna take time now this is
releasing the same amount ofdopamine that this might have
because I'm feeling good I sawmy mates This is making me feel

(34:29):
good and allowed to feel good.
So over time in your situation,you got to that point then where
now you're not you've got othermechanisms on

Damien Mullen (34:39):
the top point where the meds will hold me when
you wake up and you're doingthings like estate your day off,
you get the interview, I'll evenproduces so much good
information and you go out youget your sunlight, yeah,
drinking water with your lamininand all that you do you
exercise. You put in all the Youand then you do your mindfulness

(35:02):
and gratitude for your replacingyour admin dopamine serotonin
and all this sort of the certaincode chemical Jesseman good you
get if you want a hug all thesethings that you're doing that's
producing these good kinks andthen you're adding in kinetic
dark may or Bach a drug blockwhich then dark made that was

(35:24):
also missing with my musclestwitching acted Dogmeat also
acts on muscles little actionsand stuff like that. Sorry,
you'd have all those sideeffects so the sod FIFA add in
these synthetic chemicals werereally holding me back from
having a stable day because I'mstarting off stable then I had
in fed arrays Christopher I wason them for tea is who more we

(35:48):
even heightened in which correctanxiety and all that and then
you've got the come down andthen you and then B come down
you're adding more calm to endwith a valium so let's go to the
part where the medication waspreventing me from having a
stable Danny and then yeah andthat's why education is so
important and to be able toanswer coping strategies

Andy Fermo (36:11):
that can naturally raised those the levels of those
chemicals in our body. And socan I ask man so having said
that, and then obviously there'sbeen different mechanisms and
management tools that you've hadfrom that point from when you
stopped the meds and you'redoing it now and we're coming
forward now you've been here inPerth now for the last four or

(36:31):
five years. So what does it whatdoes that look like now for
Damon in terms of yourself carewith what you're doing now to
what you were doing then? So

Damien Mullen (36:39):
it's dropped away a lot because my mum needs not
as hard as I used to be superstrict. So if you listen to any
one of those, any of the podcastin any of the Ben green fields
and all these people have theirdays locked fully in line down
10 things they're going to dobefore 10am They have their
perfect day no one can do thatunless that's your job to do

(37:02):
that for it that was my job todo that yes so if I'm really
structured day to drive set upfor you have as good a day as I
can right now I just I'd dothings without thinking so I
don't have my negative thoughts.
There's monsters I do about it.
I am yeah, so that lasts untilfully embedded Monday Ira baby

(37:28):
are not having a negativethoughts recurring because I'm
sort of locked slowly just gotan hour left. Yep. I'm partying
by doing that changing world ofIraq. Sudan along the dam with
Felipe he is better could begood mom. It could be better
been do things put things inplace way I'd read of an hour

(37:50):
time period and I've got aKindle already been three days
and then fall asleep yet. I gaveup full of them and Matthew
problem that I stopped drinkinglast year Jan, phase gender 20th
Which when I was doing theresearch for this was decided I
want to work to find out. Yeah,so Jan 20 for Jen last year
daima alcohol or ban alcoholsince then. So I exercise I make

(38:14):
sure I do some for exerciseevery day. But then if for the
right reasons, Krishna havedifferent intent when you're
exhausted, then it was anattempt to hurt myself I was
purchasing some nails look tofor health benefit and make sure
I go and look like we're luckyenough to live near the ocean.
I'm not sure to look look at theArsenal because if you when

(38:35):
you're he has synthetics stateyour vision is tunnel vision.
One thing I've learned is likeis really good because it opens
your visual and when yourvisions are open. It's hard
clean a sympathetic state. Soonce you that's why it's so
important and and having a goodsupport system that can teach
you certain things, tricksbecause you can have a trip

(38:58):
block back that I'm triggered.
This is what this is my go to soyou have a list of tools in your
toolkit. So to complete the atthe end, you drag it out so
that's all I was doing. So asI'm feeling really anxious, what
can I do ROI I'll do amindfulness breathing so why can
they hadn't been through Montesultimate mighty self hypnosis
during that period of time maybegone for a walk on the beach, in

(39:21):
the sand at one open? We'll hearthat one you throw a bunch of
dolphins and how wonderful herethan what it does. It just
knocks down to a place where youcan start thinking it out of
that sympathetic state, hit aget a date your day, but you've
got to learn. You got to learnnew tools with PTSD, the things

(39:42):
you've got to put them working,you've got to be prepared but
working once you do that, that'swhere the benefits are once us
once you get to a point and Ithink sometimes it's bad that
fans have a lot of people haveto reach their low point In
order to lock that, I need to dosome work on it hit once you

(40:02):
reach that low point, and thenstaff to flip the script, take
control. And then you have toput the working. Yeah. And want
to put the work in in your loanyour tools in your toolkit. And
now think now. So I had thisthing where walk, it's okay. Is
Everyone's tired around a buffeta water? Bluff, that sort of

(40:25):
metaphor? Fair, fair? Well, Ithink given what what everyone's
doing, you can either say fillit up or take moderate, but
always think like, when youdistress is the amount of water
that's in that bucket. And whatthe tools are just a tool to
take some water out. That's howI picture it online. You wake up

(40:47):
sometimes and your bucket fullof water because you haven't
slept, you haven't been eatingthe right foods, like you had a
nightmare built into last night.
And that's added water inovernight. And you've worked out
many buckets completelyforeheads actually tipping over
it, you need something to takethat water to give us a room to

(41:10):
be able to help you. Yes. Andyou got to work in what those
are. Yeah. And that withoutthinking now, I have pulled
those off the hard one to answerwhat you retain them because

Andy Fermo (41:20):
you need to change it. So

Damien Mullen (41:21):
you've got the tools. Yeah, what it does is
make sure a dark my bucket thatI'm carrying around, isn't full.
And if it is, I know that it'sfull now. And I've said that and
I'm not feeling great. So at themoment, I'm looking for a job
and full time job. And I'mapplying for a job at an actual
clock and recession monitor mytrigger is given an incident is

(41:45):
waiting. So I've submitted myresume then from that submission
of my resume to get an A phonecall back. That's I'm not in
control of whether they slept mefor an interview or not. On
waiting for a phone call waitingis a trigger through through my
PTSD that I had my interview, Ibelieve my T shirt and collar

(42:08):
believe would be a good play.
But now I'm waiting to hear backto what RMC says whenever it's a
trigger. So I'm actuallyprobably now working harder than
I have for the last four yearsbecause I know that I am
triggered on Waking. Yes,

Andy Fermo (42:23):
that's the that's the acknowledgement and the self
awareness that's, that is for meor for Damian is that I have the
tools in my toolkit will seethis is where you're at and I
think that's the most you can doright you're you're vulnerable
in this state now because youhave to wait I don't know what
the outcome is. It's theuncertainty and unknown that you
talked about earlier in thepodcast and then go and what

(42:45):
have I got now to be out and itdoesn't mean that it takes away
from that waiting and there was

Damien Mullen (42:52):
a she named worth different the deputy principal
and we can't help but feel likewhen your jobs been taken away
and you create being taken awayand she'd been progressing and
we was a person that the sameson right? What that that bit
the fourth car cupboard fuel toGuild Wars. Guild Otisville
crap. Did you feel like itshould be sergeant was saying,

(43:14):
yeah. Hey, I'm down for a job asa front counter. Yeah, at the
police station, like the highercrazies blow off. Yeah. But I
get close. I'm not at themoment. Here. I'm welcome
feeling like crony because I'mwaiting around triggered in
that. And then that's when I'lljust take my my read, do my
breathing and stuff like that,try and pull those tools out?
Yes.

Andy Fermo (43:34):
From the throw the darts he was gonna see a sudden
was they want to seek and that'sone of the big ones and cannot
ask. So having said that, andyou mentioned before that you're
progressing at that thing. Nowfrom a sort of, like from a male
point of view. And this is justactually from from a male point
of view. Does that make you feellow? Knowing that's happening?
Does that make you any feel thatyou're any less of a man in

(43:57):
terms of that and going do youcompare yourself ago, that was
the rate that we were going onnow? I'm doing these things?
Does

Damien Mullen (44:03):
that that's tough. Yeah. Yeah. No, tough but
still, it's a trigger still nowto this day. As to that
question, what do you do forwork? Because the moment I'm not
working, like we've discussedbefore, but did some work as a
peer support officer? Yes. Forsoldiers and sailors? Yes. You
want to come over here? That wasprobably the best I've found
because I love that job. Andthat's what I want to do it.

(44:25):
Yeah, the Junkman there for melocking but volunteer to have
volunteered on so I'm hoping toget this part of June. I don't
it's point five seconds fromwhere point five? Yep. And then
I want to Boland T in peersupport to help others. But it's
it's a trigger to that. What'sWhat do you do for work? Because

(44:45):
I feel like most of the societalnorm time Yeah, I can't help but
feel like I had the I should bedoing something more and I'm
embarrassed or shouldn't beembarrassed because you
shouldn't tie your identity outhere. Deployment Income add
there. We do. Yeah, that'sthat's a side. Yeah, that's what
we do a lot got my son playsfootball and he's the parents of

(45:08):
his football team. And there'ssome mock CEOs of the places and
companies and that and, and itis there and they're lovely
people, they don't judge me andthen you can't have to judge
yourself. Yes. That's prettyyou're talking about with that?
Yes. Yeah. And you're like onTV, I can hold a conversation I
can. I believe I'm good now todo some more important,

(45:32):
believably playful. Lately, Ithink I'd love to do something
quick, more impact and feellike, once I yeah,

Andy Fermo (45:43):
I think that that's a bit annoying. Where you are in
your journey now says that filmhas a purpose. That

Damien Mullen (45:49):
is to help others and to help others that are
going through PTSD, to havesomeone that's going through
pain and provide hope but notonly hard, give them some tools,
help them guide them through itwith proper socks. And yes,
psychiatrists and all that. Thatthat's an I did do that. Yeah.

(46:10):
And delivery, simply say this is

Andy Fermo (46:14):
at the moment, I just, yeah, yeah, the bar thing.
And that's the thing we win,thanks for sharing that man.
Because I think as males, andI'm speaking from a male
viewpoint that's come in andfrom a societal norm, that it's
like, the male has to be thebreadwinner. And I just did a
series on that, coming in thisand he comes to that question,
you got the question there thatcomes in, you know, you might
have these other things inplace. But still, there's that

(46:35):
societal thing there. And theycomes in, but also there's that
as a blog, I'm self critical onmyself here. Like I'm holding
these conversations with theseother people, you have enough
data, there's no judgement therefrom live from, but then it
still gets into head. And that'sthe thing about feeling that
purpose along that journey. AndI'm wishing you all the best in

(46:57):
regards to that. Hopefully, thatsort of pans out with what's
going on, because it's all thatpart of that that ride that
we're on. But what we weretalking about is having those
tools now that having done thatwork, and it is it's fucking
hard work to be able to get tothat stage now where you have
these tools, but then going nowthat life might throw me a

(47:18):
curveball. I've got the toolsthat allow me to deal with that
situation in a much morepositive coping way. Right and
that's not saying that you'renot going to step back or
something might happen that thatknocks you back a couple of
things. But then it's like I'vegot the tools now to be able to
pick myself up in a much moreefficient way. And what

Damien Mullen (47:38):
was your team up tell him this is Alex I'm almost
there because some a lot of it Iforgot all of them been able to
tell because those years as badas what they are I don't regret
going through that at all oldhurts would again because it
makes you feel like you're abetter person when you go
through for always thought whatwas always I was treated people

(48:02):
with respect and and had empathyfor people but I did. And Mark
most of the place was isn't thatfuck all. I've just arrested
other Draghi or something. Sohold on a minute, will cost this
story. People don't just becomedragees for trauma, if they ever
had trauma from going out ofbullet is some sort of race and
that but if your dark guard istrue, and it then block the

(48:26):
source something in your lawhere, dark dude that minute I've
built his resilience. Bladefirmly believed that in order to
build resilience, you have to gothrough tough things you have to
get through PTSD. City, yourrundown, wrong 40 County native
run that to that. And so you'vegot to lock doors from you can

(48:48):
grab some hardest spear in thecity. And then one of the things
with PTSD and what I've gonethrough, and whatever the
culture is, or when you gothrough something tough, who you
think is tough, you've gotsomething to go now that's not
tough. There's writing a suicidenote to my family and my kid
that's not that you've got theability that is true resilience.

(49:10):
Yes. When you know, you've gonefrom rock bottom. And it's those
experiences on it got to me wantto take that back. Now there's
no, that's the growth there,right, the depth, the growth,
it's dealt with people and helppeople that it goes through PTSD
and rock solid, good luck. Oryou've got some ways to fall

(49:30):
still, you're probably going tofall again. You're going to end
it's hard. It's tough a dip andyou're trying to be there to
support him. But as you readbetter, who is better? I want
you to get through that. Yes,suck up a better person. You'll
have more empathy for others andyou grow into a better person.
Yeah. All round, well roundedperson,

Andy Fermo (49:48):
but it's hard to be outside because you go up.
Here's the results. Now here'sthe result. Here's the tools. I
know that these tools work, butyou're not ready to be able to.
You're not ready to wield thatsword right now. Because you
still need work or, or yoursituation and it's not, I'm not
trying to put anyone down orthere's, your situation hasn't

(50:09):
gotten to that point there whereyou're ready to be able to set
Harney to actually like, in yourcase that you were saying them
in is, okay, I've done thesethings are suicidal out, there
was a flicker of hope in thatflicker of hope, whatever it
might look from someone in theaudience like, now, I'm ready to
be able to be have an open mindto trying something different.
And these are the tools thatwill enable you to do that over

(50:29):
time. And it's like a jigsawpuzzle. It'll throw the darts on
the board and see what will did.
But to get to that point whereyou're actually ready to accept
that that's the big Munchmindset shift,

Damien Mullen (50:39):
you're going to be ready. And that's how, I
don't know why I laugh likethis. But you just sometimes
just got to be broken, to lockthe ball better. But you get
fixed better than what you werebefore.

Andy Fermo (50:52):
And that's what you just said that's the thing.
Resilience, right? And that'scoming from being at that rock
bottom. You can't get anyfurther you're killing but
that's not pro life. Right?
Yeah. And then like you weresaying is, well, who's that
gonna? Alternatively effect? Andthat's the thing, you know, with
suicide, there's a lot of flowon effects from that. But we're
talking about pro life here inour conversation and where we're
at, this is the journey thatwe're moving forward. And from

(51:14):
here made looking closer, we'llgo on, well, this is gonna be a
multi episode. Basically, it meNo, no, that's okay, man. But
I'll really appreciate you beingable to shoot before. Yes, well,
it's being able to share toshare that man. And I think that
there's going to be a lot of ouraudience there, especially the
first responders in theaudience. They're like, I know
that there's lots of militarythat change over to be first

(51:35):
responder or just straight offthe bat. I'm like you did that
that will connect with yourstory just through through what
you've shared today. Moving toclose up, what was spoken about?
Is there a couple of things thatyou'd like to be able to share
with someone that might havebeen in not that good of style,
you mentioned that you had donethe peer work, peer support work

(51:57):
before, to say they're not inthe best state and they're
looking, these things arestarting there on the couch. And
if you could cast your mind backto Damien that was on the couch
there thinking from where youare now. What would you say?
What would you say to someonethat was in that situation? Or
what would you say to Damianthat was in that situation now,
from your viewpoint?

Damien Mullen (52:17):
Yeah, so that's the way that's an eighth one,
too. There's hope and you canget better. Because cuz they
went, Oh, I was backing thatTong, let's change or I couldn't
seem to find it either. Anyway,motivate out there that you
could improve and you canactually rip off damage that

(52:37):
actually recovery. Yeah,everything I've read saw her it
was all you've got it for life,aspects of it. You've got for
Latinos to get better, and lifearen't getting any better, are
bad. And that's why I fullybelieved in the peer support
sister is key in innate to findhope, when you don't if there is

(53:00):
any. And then yeah, if I hadthat conversation, and or if I
had a peer support, theywouldn't have to hit rock
bottom. But don't get me wrong.
There's peer support. And wecould call myself as Yeah, open
that. But I still believe Ineeded to probably hit more
bottom and what not a bank maybeso far down. Yeah. taking so
long. But Jeff, yeah, that thathope that and hoping that

(53:23):
there's yeah, there's recoveryand not only recovery, fully
believing you, you get better,you'd build yourself better,
stronger, more resilient. Yeah.
And a better person.

Andy Fermo (53:35):
Yeah, in whichever way that looks for you. And I
think that's the big one. Thanksfor sharing. And when you're
working on these things, it'sall about in your situation,
right? What might work for you.
It's not let's say for example,for me, right? I'm like, I'm not
going to compare myself to theJoneses to what I feel that
success is right and worked onmyself now. I know that the
tools that I can do to be ableto cope with some whatever might

(53:56):
happen. And that is my idea ofsix or a good day, right? It's
not alone, John, I had a shitday and this is what happened to
them and that's your, this isyour situation. And and that's a
big one though, as well as notjudging that thing. That's okay.
This is what I'm puttingtogether for my situation. And
these are the tools in mytoolkit. It's sitting up here

(54:18):
you mentioned before it'ssetting up your bloody gear
about to go out on the job righteveryone's got a different
setup. The tools might besimilar when you could pull them
out Yeah, but the differencethough, and

Damien Mullen (54:30):
the other one will not compare and is not
comparing your story to someoneelse's in terms of debt your
trauma long because we alwaysunderplay like yeah there for me
it was what it was someone'slistening didn't need to see a
dead child or something likethat. Here are the smallest are
yours might be whatever it isthe dark downplay it. Yes. To

(54:52):
get energy is whatever yourthat's what you're feeling.
Yeah. And that's a big one. Ithink the PTSD is off by we are
hard on ourselves because wedon't have gas Laurie, what our
trauma wasn't as much as thenext person. That's true. And
it's the same as recovery cyclerecovering quick. Are you always
judging it falls on others?
Yeah. And said, being harmed andjust showed me so I was on

(55:12):
talking yourself and you stuff.
And like

Andy Fermo (55:15):
that took two, four tours forward steps today. And
there was a backward step. ButI've moved forward

Damien Mullen (55:21):
in time. Because I mean, then what I thought at
the time or two steps forward,one step back, and it was always
one step forward, there was dayswhere you're obviously, the
heats the days where I was like,right, two steps, five steps,
and complete four steps back,how can I do this, and you're
playing him on that, then youget that moment where it's like

(55:41):
a little bit more for and depth,when you learn, you can say that
you're still progressingforward. The roller coaster,
you've got him, right. Andthat's the heartbeat. So as long
as you are there, there's hopeat the end of that roller car is
done. As you can ride it and yougo out, and then you you do go
down. And sometimes it is foursteps, and cannon and you lock.

(56:01):
Or if someone was to waser inthe time, that's what you gain,
then you merge, you get to thenext day that wasn't as bad as
what

Andy Fermo (56:09):
was those moments will pass that feeling will
pass.

Damien Mullen (56:13):
You lead path and

Andy Fermo (56:15):
it and you need that wedge in you need that wedge to
come in as a word, that word

Damien Mullen (56:19):
and it's a good it's yeah. Can you hear me? So
what I'm currently that's basedoff the Wim Hof. It's a really
good book because he went thereto do the Wim Hof course, to
write a bad story down and thenturn around and was like,

Andy Fermo (56:34):
Oh, I've I've self some insights around this. And
so I have stolen a lot in theworld, since I think it's quite
like it's all it's all r&d Thesedays made it's rip off and
duplicate. But look, I thinkit's just how you apply it. And
that's the thing is, from whatyou've said, There's you've gone
more now on to the stages havetried this, and I was diligent

(56:55):
in that exact method. But nowI've Damien refined it. And I
can take the bits from thatmethod and this method and that
story and that wage, and thenapply it to my own situation
now, because you've you'veassembled your own toolkit, but
that's the work that needs to bedone isn't it's all going to
take what I connect with, andwhat I can implement in my own
situation, then go in, mate,thank you so much for for coming

(57:17):
in. And, and and for theopportunity to share your story
with our audience today. It'svery brave of you to be able to
come in and share that. And alsobe able to really, I've got so
much appreciation and gratitudefor you to be able to in how
much growth you've just alsosaid because I mean, it takes a
lot to go from the bottom tocome up to be in your particular

(57:40):
situation where you are now andso I really commend you for how
much growth you've been able todo that and share with our
audience, man. So thank you.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Awesome, man. Thanks.

Claire Fermo (57:53):
Join us next time for the next episode of the
invisible injuries podcast.
Don't forget to subscribe. Formore great content, follow us on
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www dot invisibleinjuries.org.au where you can
access more content. Thank youfor listening to invisible

(58:14):
injury