July 23, 2024 • 42 mins
In this episode of the Invisible Injuries Podcast, host Andy Fermo engages in a candid conversation with John Giampino, a military veteran, sharing his profound experiences and the impact of his service on his mental health. The episode unfolds in a conversational tone, structured around Giampino’s deployments, the challenges he faced, and his journey towards healing.
John begins by reflecting on his time in Bougainville, describing it as a relatively positive experience despite the inherent dangers. He shares anecdotes about daily life and the camaraderie among his peers. The narrative shifts to his deployment in East Timor, highlighting the stark differences and the volatile environment. John candidly discusses the emotional toll of witnessing the locals' suffering and the profound impact it had on him, marking the beginning of significant changes in his perspective.
The conversation delves deeper into John's experiences in Afghanistan and the Solomon Islands, emphasizing the constant state of heightened alertness and the psychological strain it imposed. A particularly harrowing training incident is recounted, where John and a fellow soldier narrowly escaped drowning. This incident, coupled with the lack of support from his superiors, marked the onset of his PTSD, leading to a moral injury that profoundly affected his mental health.
Throughout the episode, John shares his journey towards managing PTSD, emphasizing the importance of self-care, seeking help, and the support of his peers. The episode resonates with the theme of “post-traumatic growth,” highlighting John's resilience and his ongoing efforts to find purpose and positivity despite the challenges.
Service
1. John’s positive experience in Bougainville despite the inherent dangers.
2. The stark contrast and volatile environment in East Timor.
3. The constant state of heightened alertness during his deployment in Afghanistan.
Mental Health and Wellbeing
4. The profound emotional impact of witnessing the locals' suffering in East Timor.
5. The psychological strain of a harrowing training incident, marking the onset of PTSD.
6. The lack of support from superiors, leading to a moral injury.
Self-Care and Positive Mindset
7. The importance of seeking help and support from peers in managing PTSD.
8. The role of self-care practices in improving mental health and wellbeing.
9. The significance of finding purpose and positivity despite challenges.
10. The theme of "post-traumatic growth" as a source of resilience and hope.
Contact - John Giampino
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/igySIXfoundation
Website: https://igy6.com.au/
Help Lines Open Arms (VVCS) | Lifeline | RedSix app
"RESPECT, NO POLITICS, WE'RE VOLUNTEERS"
Disclaimer: The accounts and stories are "Real lived experiences" of our guests some of the content may trigger Post Traumatic Stress (PTS) symptoms in some of our audience. Feedback regarding other organisations, courses and initiatives remains largely unsensored. Whether its good or bad they remain the OPINION of our guests and their experiences it is important in building an accurate statistic on what really happens.
During the course of our conversations sometimes sensitive information may be accidentally mentioned, as such, Invisible Injuries respects the law and sensors any information that may breach Operational Security OPSEC
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Claire Fermo (00:04):
Welcome to invisible injuries podcast,
aimed at bettering the wellbeing and mental health,
veterans, first responders intheir immediate support
experiencing post traumaticstress. By sharing the stories
of the lived experiences of ourpeers, the support staff and the
clinicians, it's our aim to makesure we can have a meaningful
(00:27):
connection with our audience,and give them the ideas for
their own self care plan. If youdo like what you're hearing,
subscribe to the channel andshare it with your friends.
Lastly, these stories may be atrigger for your post traumatic
stress. If your PTSD istriggered, we have links to
(00:48):
support in the description. Orif it's immediate, please call
lifeline on 1311 14. Here's yourhost, Andy fermo.
Andy Fermo (01:02):
What was that difference in when you were like
it was observe, observe heartsand minds from that Bowgun Ville
environment to at that time withEast Timor because there was
some stuff. There was somepretty heavy stuff going on down
there, especially in the earlydays. What was that difference?
Like?
John Ciampino (01:18):
What do you think the bowden bill? Well, I told
him it was the best bloodyholiday I've been on. And spell
I looked at Biglerville beeneven though you expect the
unexpected is your burnterritory and whatnot. But you
really don't know what's goingto happen. So you've got your
mindset geared around that boatcoming back. It was Yeah. Well,
(01:39):
my first operation, that wasgreat. It was enjoyable. I loved
it. It was brown hug, day in dayout because every day was
exactly the same. And, and hegot to the stage where it got a
little bit boring. Yeah, some ofus joined the rapid reaction
force where he all get primedup. You wear your ballistic
(02:00):
taping and whatnot. You haveyour ass buttons and jump on a
helicopter and you trailingafter hours. Then we'll call it
out a couple of foreign spentknocking eventuated from it.
Yeah. But in the end that selfwas my adrenaline rush. Yeah,
there's in there giving thatknowing that you're possibly
(02:22):
going into harm's way andwhatnot. You've got ballistic
protection and in Spartan,they've got automatic rifles.
Andy Fermo (02:29):
They say don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Yeah,
pretty much.
John Ciampino (02:33):
We had no choice back then. But yeah, it was
good. Holding all my bogey Villeexperience was very positive.
Yeah. Loved it. And for the guysthat went fishing, they just
were crying. They loved it. Ofcourse, the fishing was
absolutely fantastic over there.
And the locals were broadlyloved though. We did have a good
working record with them aswell.
Andy Fermo (02:55):
Yeah. And then so when you got to Timor, Then
where were you based there andwhat was that sort of that
John Ciampino (03:02):
all was based just outside of Delhi in
Campbell Barrett, the watercraftwere based over in New Delhi
port. And literally, it wascompletely different. As soon as
we arrived, we were shoved invehicles going straight over to
Campbell barracks, where we wereissued with the weapons, rounds,
ballistic protection, all thatsort of stuff. Then of course,
(03:24):
we had our hand over take overfor a week, new crews went onto
their boats checked out theirweapon systems. Each of the
boats had shifted to gallonmachine guns 5000 rounds per
Bowdoin whatnot. And yes, theywent through the drills,
checking out the weapons systemsgoing on trips as the secretary
(03:44):
curry to watch how the othercrew operated. Of course, I was
stuck in the ops room being asergeant. I couldn't go with my
boat. So I was stuck in the opsroom doing you know, tasks,
things and whatnot. In to me, itwas completely different as
complete reverse. We knew thatwe were literally in harm's way.
(04:07):
And there was a reason why those1000 soldiers out there with
weapons and whatnot. But notonly that, we actually went
there where we transitioned fromtrading to anti UN peacekeeping
force aside the either by thefrom one operation straining to
anti it, it was yeah, it wascompletely different. The threat
(04:31):
was still there. What can I sayabout East Timor? It changed me.
It changed a lot of people,especially in those early days.
And I went in East Timor,probably eight months after
initially started so it wasstill quite volatile. Yeah. The
towns were in Delhi. It wasstarting to people starting to
(04:55):
get back in some form ofnormality. You had the walk We
call the venga buses where youhad about a dozen each team or
he's hanging off the edge ofthese so called buses that they
had running up and down thestreets. You're working with
other international forces. Andyeah, so a lot of things were
different about
Andy Fermo (05:16):
that what was said that your team or experience in
deployments changed you how that
John Ciampino (05:21):
suppose in a big way I was actually it is my
first time was just the peoplethat literally suffering, the
locals were suffering. They werehappy will there but they'll
living in absolute poverty. Thisis where the rubber hits the
road. And this is for real, thisis why we're either here to
support the stay Marie's ortheir independence and whatnot.
(05:44):
But watching and working aroundthe locals and whatnot, even
though we're in closed camp, butwhen we did go out, which was
quite break when mixing with thelocals and whatnot, just seeing
how they'll live in literally aday to day existence for them.
Because again, theinfrastructure was pretty much
gone. The windows made sure thatwhen they left, and I'm not
(06:08):
afraid of saying that, becausethat's exactly what happened.
And then trying and watching theSt. Mary's pick up the pieces
and fine, we'll get on with law,and that I struggled a lot, and
it came down to the basicnecessities as well. So much so
and a lot of us are you ridingup bow families, and we've got
any clothes you don't needgentlemen over. And this is what
(06:31):
we're doing. We're actuallygetting care packages for
clothes and we went to villagesand whatnot, just pastor. Yeah,
Andy Fermo (06:37):
so a lot of that's that civic dude, that the
additional civic duty, besidesyour duty as a military, as a
soldier, and then the operation,then what you're describing, as
well as that to that some ofthat challenge challenges, the
moral codes and also exposes youto other things and how other
societies can be affected byconflict and war. Right. What
(07:00):
and
John Ciampino (07:01):
this befriended a lot of families out there
because, of course, Canterbury'sskirted townships and whatnots
though a lot of locals werethere, though smiling, waving to
us, and just watching him walkaround in rags, and I thought
may have been a very luckycountry, and we're very wasteful
country. Why not just do theright thing. We worked it out.
(07:21):
So he did get free postage. Andthen we've got clothing and then
we started giving them ourclothes and now we're just
beside them. So for us, it waslike you're gonna put it in the
Vinny spinner. We're gonna giveit to them, or I'll give it to
them. Yeah, I think we were themain call called also, all the
kids and the dental the futuredental requirements because we
(07:46):
did pass out a crapload oflollies, our little three toys
and one that every time we wentout there we had bands and
Wally's would try. Yeah. 10years down the track, they end
up developing cavities and allthat sort of stopped, our heart
was in the right place, but wejust didn't think about that.
Andy Fermo (08:03):
Yeah, that that's one of the things is is winning
the hearts and minds is onething, but there are more
beneficial ways to be able to doit. But at the time you're
creating relationships with thepeople. And I think that's the
main thing you're not thinkingabout what's going to be the
flow on effect
John Ciampino (08:18):
D and that was part and parcel so I suppose we
have operations and whatnot,please do not hand the kids and
the lollies they don't scrubtheir teeth and they will get
the K and whatnot. So the fairenough, but yeah, I suppose and
everything so we just throw themin here that I loved that
something that was cost us nextto nothing, but it brought him a
(08:38):
lot of joy and put a smile onour faces.
Andy Fermo (08:40):
That's a big one there as well. All those little
things there when you can havethat feel good of being in an in
a place where there's thesmallest things that you think
in our society don't mean muchused clothes destined for the
Vinnies been and tennis ballscan mean such a lot for these
people. And that that's the bigthing on this they're exposed to
(09:00):
when people have had everythingtaken away for them and poverty.
That can happen that was EastTimor, and then fast forwarding
that little bit more because Iknow that I want to start
talking about what happened toyou and how all this stuff
affected you. Anna Stan wasagain here because shortly after
then there was a busy time thatwas Timor and Bowgun Ville
(09:22):
through to Timor and then fromthere that's when the steam
train started rolling throughdinner really pretty
John Ciampino (09:27):
much all I was doing my subject one pole worn
off sir way. I walked into thebro room and looked on the TV
and watch the plane smashed intothe Twin Towers. And I'm
thinking the first thing I saidwas what the fuck just happened?
Yes, he's language but my mindsaid the same thing. Straight
(09:48):
after that. The barracks wentinto complete lockdown. So I was
over. Yeah, sorry. I had briny.
Yeah, no, it was over in theGold Coast. Cananga Nangarhar
Yes? Yeah, my memories. But Willthere Cananga doing my subject
and a sub one for our WarrantOfficer when this all happened?
(10:09):
And as soon as that happenedwithin two days, can Unruh went
into lockdown? Shall we addinfantry over there during the
next size? Well pulled out ofthat size are no the gods. So I
literally alle abilities verylocked down, you waited until
the buildings were opened andwalked in, they lock the
building behind you, becausenobody knew what was going on at
(10:30):
ground level was growing at thattime, because, of course elbow
changed on that died. Oh, yes.
And I would say less than amonth after me leaving Canungra
I was on a ship, then towardsthe northern Arabian Gulf, I was
on HMA SendinBlue, we had to allshare mates. And we had other
(10:55):
equipment on board. What ourprimary role was because we'll
attach the Navy whilst you stockall the ships smuggling out oil
from Iraq. And because the shipsout there, you've got a river
system that goes out to theocean. And these are the smaller
(11:16):
tankers, they try to skirt thecoast stay within the 12
nautical mile, because that isterritorial waters. And we've
gotten our jurisdiction withinterritorial waters, when they
have to go into theinternational waters to skirt
around rates or rocks orwhatever. That's the time that
we nab them. And that was ourwhole and sole job out there was
(11:36):
working with the Navy SEALs,which we got introduced to and
whatnot. And from there, Loulilypads saw the Navy SEALs used
to hang up our boats were thereNS and NS, W's, we've got a
different name, we're offeringthe same to Commander operators,
same autograph, Neil. So theyhung out for us and we fed them.
(12:00):
And from there, when it was timeto pounce on the ships, they
went ahead, kill the ship wherehe was supposed to follow up,
they'll secure a tie line to theLCME will timeout proceed at
this area holding area where theUS Navy was actually holding
other ships in there. Andliterally, they were under the
(12:24):
gun show the US Navy until theforces went on board done the
clearing and whatnot found outwhat was smuggling, they did.
And of course, so taken away anddealt with accordingly,
according to the laws. But thatwas pretty much our job. That's
Andy Fermo (12:40):
so interesting to be able to hear that because when
you in that sort of if we castback to this is your role. This
is the this is your lane so tospeak. But when you're an
operations and you're goingsomewhere like that, you
mentioned before we pressedrecord, that there was these
other interesting things thatcan happen when you're on
operations. And what happens outof it as the fact that lily pad
(13:03):
using the seals like all thesedifferent roles and why you're
there that's definitely openedmy eyes to what the role would
have been in the sea because itis a much larger picture of what
was happening at that time.
Right it's definitely
John Ciampino (13:18):
and if you can appreciate the Jew the
geographical location of all theother countries within the
northern Arabian Gulf you haveIran in one corner and then like
right next door to Iraq have abit more you have Afghanistan
around the corner he had Kuwaitand they had the in around there
(13:40):
UAE and that was it. So it waslike five separate countries
within the cell for agentliterally, it's you're literally
working around sometimes veryvolatile countries. Yeah. One
instance was we were actuallysupposed to set up a lily pad
(14:00):
ready for the Navy SEALs to do ajob that got canned. So we went
anchor her Of course we wentanchor in the national water.
And we were stoked. Basically wewill be shadowed by an unnamed
vessel and it came up on radarit was quite a large blimp so we
knew it was quite a large stripvessel. And of course so we
(14:23):
started with our airways, butthey played dumb, closer and
closer in the end. We had togive them warning shots. However
their bow with their 50 counts.
With the ROA Navy ROA is onethat commander controlled navy.
You have to give warning shotsfirst before you start shooting
at them were an army Roa.
(14:46):
There's no such thing as warningshots. You have fire, but it was
a gradual escalation ofaggression. Dave Hill first
thing was over the radiofloodlights, then we find flares
out them in just chill on theradio with them and whatnot no
answer they got to the stagewhere they're getting too close
(15:08):
and what goes through your mind
Unknown (15:10):
yes through your mind
John Ciampino (15:12):
oh yeah fuck did you do and you're fucked up but
I said to the pro there's nogoddamn way this board on board
these boats and because in theend we knew that it was a patrol
boat from a country of originwhatever they would have been
blistering with weapons systemsside yeah yep pretty well
(15:35):
screwed all we had was ah theboats had chief decals we had
our purse weapons and thankfullyenough we had clearance divers
on board as well in a looked atit and say what that oh Edo it
certainly Vicki they're gettingany closer mine I'm gonna jump
in the water and jump on boardand lift them all right now
(15:55):
might just sit there and I hadanother clarity saw a hardened
behind it and why Prof. I saidseriously do just jump in the
world they've lived my lifecraft, a life raft was made of
fibreglass shell of his robberwho was gonna soak up all that.
Yeah, but in the end, we did ourjob with a when we did open fire
on them, they lit up like aChristmas tree. And not only
(16:18):
that, but the radio just lit uplike the knocking going yeah.
And of course he was on theradio screaming something in
Arabic, his whole ship lit up toput off the lights on and walk
know what we were in in contactwith an invalid and invalid
request that we are V with andstraightaway. So we are paying
(16:41):
it and we left. And of coursethe little buggers were
following us. So turned aroundon the radio again, I said if
you do not break away right nowI've been up with almost 50
kills. And so he is in towardsup in that was sharp
Andy Fermo (16:55):
left trying to test you to see how failure resolved
was pretty
John Ciampino (16:59):
much the opposite of sip water on these boats,
they are not sticking ball onthese boats.
Andy Fermo (17:03):
And from from what I'm hearing John as well with
that sort of story and what'shappening, you never really know
the height of readiness. Andthis is the thing from talking
and bringing it to mental healthpoint of view is never really
know you're at a heightenedstate of awareness because the
unknowns there, right, youmentioned before is your
training will kick in whensomething happens. But it's
(17:26):
always the unknown if you've gota, like you said with ROP
shooting across the bow. Butthen there's also courses of
action there that come in. Andthose also have effect on you as
well, isn't it really
John Ciampino (17:37):
and this is a thing that actually
unfortunately, some of my crewmembers did suffer PTSD out of
that action, because literallythey thought they'll guard to
die. Yeah, that was one of therisks that was involved with the
job. One week was alright, aftera while, but the other one just
went downhill. Of
Andy Fermo (17:58):
course, I think it's how everyone's you could have
five people in the sameincident, and further down the
track. And this is how we withmental health and unpacking that
experience, everyone'sexperience of the same incident
is always going to be a littlebit different. And they're all
valid experiences. However, thething is that what happens to
the body in that environment aswell, from that experience, is
(18:20):
totally different. And that'sthe after effect of what we're
going to be moving on to. And
John Ciampino (18:25):
this is where conditioning, all the member
who's joined the first horsebecomes very prevalent, need to
be harked. Society doesn'tagree. But in the end their
life, that's the person who'sholding that weapons life. So
you need to give him all thetools that he needs to do that
job at that time. Oh,
Andy Fermo (18:45):
it's so interesting, isn't it? You have to give them
the tools to do that. And okay,this was it early game, right?
It is. And so you have to givepeople those tools to make those
decisions and do what they haveto do. And we've got that part
of when you went to Afghanistanand Middle East. Were there
subsequent deployments inregards to
John Ciampino (19:04):
Solomon Islands was my last deployment. Yeah.
And literally, it was federalplaced leg. Yeah. And the Army
themselves were there as thestick. So the federal police had
the run of the operation. And wewere there. Just because again,
(19:24):
we had the tool, the FederalPolice to where they need to go,
Yeah, my main job there wasBetamax. I was awarness class to
them, who that aberration. Andmy job was initially to offload
the ship, which was a menorahand float all cargo and whatnot.
(19:45):
And from there, open up beachesaround the various islands
around Solomon island chain. Itwas great. Listen, in the end
that was an operation that Ireally enjoyed because my set
skills as you Not as a soldier,but as a beach masters that was
marine came into effect. Yeah.
And that was literallyorganising he to be open. So I
(20:08):
would travel by boat byhelicopter or by road to
specific beaches of interestthen from there or conducted by
trade comm I would have aninfantry soldier with me as my
security. And from there we willgo through literally from the
back of beach all the way theywould wilt in that soundings
(20:31):
tank literally boring. The bestpossible route for LCM eight or
LC H is to actually land inoffload the good being initially
dozers front end loader, Macktruck full of equipment to
actually set up our placeoutposts. Such
Andy Fermo (20:52):
such an important job that people don't think
about, let's get how do we dothis? But how do we enable this,
this is getting the resourcesthat are out there and
available. Such an importantjob. And so, John, I'm having
spoken to this and then youmentioned before by that stage,
you're worried too when you'reyou're doing this different role
with as a beach master? Can youspeak a little bit more to
(21:15):
because he had such a big andlong career in the military is
going on these deployments atdifferent stages in the your
career. So going from say like acorporal position to that first
Bowgun Ville and team orfollowing through team or then
you had the Middle East? Andthen going to Solomon Islands as
a warrant officer? Can you justspeak to that a little bit more
(21:38):
and how the experience changesat the different
John Ciampino (21:42):
parquet? Well, pretty much what Bowgun Ville I
think it was an introduction tooverseas operations there
Cypress Wade actually introducethe soldier to overseas
operations now, for up level,even though I was there was
extremely low. We put a lot oftrust in a local sense. That's
why we went in unarmed for us todo the job that we were doing
(22:03):
was very important not only forthe bogey billion people, but
boy country itself to get backup after a 10 Year Walk, which
literally destroyed everythingwe went in, we had to be self
sufficient. That was the one bigthing because we couldn't rely
on the other resources becausethere was literally knocking
there and begging to eat,everything had to be flowing,
(22:24):
including our food, bottledwater, our food had to be flown
in from Australia, all that sortof stuff, because literally
there was nothing there. Thencame East Timor, the bigger
operation, this warlikeoperation, carrying weapons
around you have to haveliterally your senses about
Rekia, you had that being the myright mindset, right frame of
(22:47):
mind, knowing that it could be athreat around the corner, but
also knowing that there arelocals there as well. Were there
there was ces there. And whenthey help then and again, help a
country transition go out ourcountry that was rolled under
another country transitioningsay criminal themselves. That
was a very important thing forus because we knew we were doing
(23:10):
good will there at the end mightend up from there. Once the job
was done. We left with thatagainst and that was a
sharpshooter, this was probablythe most important operation of
all because it was a war againstterror. Again, everybody it was
(23:31):
a training was extensive littletime that we had we went through
a lot of training a month oftraining before we actually went
in country. And that was on theship heading out towards there.
And then once we were therecause Chow summit there when tap
say there was an admin whocrossed hemisphere now we're in
the northern hemisphere duringthe winter time, we weren't
(23:54):
properly prepared for thatnotary war, because the call out
would say please, but we mightdo with what we got. We did join
up with the Americans on ourroad cam Doha working with the
Navy SEALs, air and whatnot.
That was the truly memorableexperience. I think after the
incident we had an the golfer aNavy Seal, Lieutenant walked up
(24:14):
to me punched me in the arm andsaid, I can't believe it. You're
here for three weeks you sawreaction and we've been evil for
months. Haven't you been fired?
Andy Fermo (24:24):
No, right, isn't it?
I just come in here, my job'sdone there. But back to that
humour. And that black humourthat you can get to get by. But
the former as he was in thatrole going speaking to the
Solomon Islands, as someone whowas in upper management, then up
your Sergeant Warrant Officer,you've got diggers underneath
you that you're keeping safe. Sodid that have different role
(24:45):
there compared to those earlierdays when Well, that's a command
sort of element right?
John Ciampino (24:53):
It didn't know why see being when we actually
did deploy over Solomon Islands.
We I deployed as a beach landingteam. Net. And that was a
primary role that what we wereback in Australia. And so we
deployed as the beach landingteam we went in, I think it
will, yet we offload the CMH hadall of my equipment on board
(25:14):
there. And then we'll put in aholding pattern for about an
hour. And we went on the radiosof what is the problem? Why are
we holding off? And the answercame back Oh, wait for the press
to arrive so they can takepictures of you landing on the
beach. And wait, he got beshooting real. Okay, now
authorities. So that happened.
(25:37):
We landed on the bait done, ourjob started offloading all the
cargo off MINOURA. In once wegot into the cycle, we have all
the roles and responsibilitiesand all the people because we do
train hard. We are a small teamon the beach and give a speech
and team we're very small team.
So we sat down during theplanet. And we started rolling
(25:57):
everything in from there. We setup the beach and operational
beach land side or Red Beach.
Were that was water canal BeachResort. That was the reason why
it's called Red beaches. That'sthe place where the US actually
landed. And they caught RedBeach because it was covered in
(26:19):
blood and whatnot. But yeah, wewere the first forces to land
there. Since World War Two, thenthis is history again. Yeah.
Which was great. From there.
Once we settled into Allred saneand whatnot, Moon will then we
started and the Federal Policewere comfortable on securing
around area from the air westarted to branch out. And
(26:41):
before anybody can go out, holdon, we have to make sure that we
can get vessels in there as whatthe abt done, I suppose in the
way that each operationalemployment had its inherent
risks. The iOpener for me wasEast Timor, because I did come
back a different person. And thereason why I say that was the I
(27:04):
was in a car with my then wifeand her mother in law after
jumping off a plane from histable and there will arguing
where they'll go under eight.
Now I was in the backseat, noneWhy not shut and fucking
Matthew. And they were justgoing off about I want to eat
here I want to eat. In the end,I just exploded and basically
(27:26):
told them both shuttler park up,decide where you want to eat.
You guys don't realise how luckyyou are. I've just came back
from a place that they juststarving here. They're hungry,
they've got nothing. And they'reto me. It just came out. And I
just stepped back for a littlebit. Because I did upset them to
(27:48):
the stage where the mother hassaid, I'm going back home. Okay,
your wife says we go back hometurns itself I'd go back home
because to me their problemswere so trivial. It was just not
even on the radar. Yeah, hithere, I just came back from
places that are suffering.
People were literally sufferingthrough that. And to me, it was
just the first of
Andy Fermo (28:10):
all problems. And I'm glad. And that's where, as
you mentioned before, rightearlier on in the piece was is
that East Timor changed you inthose perspectives, the person
that comes back changes fromthose from what I'm hearing, and
it wasn't quite the penetrationthat you probably would have had
in your head when you came home.
Definitely had this thinghappen. First world problems
(28:30):
that would have just been whereare we going to eat in the
excitement, you're back. Butthen from your point of view,
you just got there as a man thatthis is mainly shit that you're
arguing over, come from and thenhaven't been able to really
unpack that. And that's like anoutburst now, was that the sort
of same in terms of when you gotback from a changed man from
those other deployments?
John Ciampino (28:54):
Yeah, with Afghanistan, we were lucky
enough to stay on the ship andsell back to our style. So it
took us a month to get back toAustralia. So it was our
decompression, which was great.
Absolutely. When we did get backto Australia, and the boss said,
So Joe, how was it? I said, I'llnever fucking go back to
Afghanistan for all the frickintea in China. I said, we, we are
(29:16):
so much in the lucky country.
We're geographically isolatedfrom all this shit. People don't
realise how lucky they are toactually live in a country
lockout. We've got everything.
Value for life. He's very highout in here. We're in other
countries. That means absolutelynothing. And it's Yeah. We are
(29:38):
very lucky. A lot of peopledon't realise how lucky they
are. And I said, Listen, it'sgoing to have to take a conflict
in Australia are a lot of peopleto wake up to themselves. Do you
just realised how lucky we are?
Andy Fermo (29:56):
It is a different viewpoint, isn't it? And if
you're not if you're not thereWhen you haven't been exposed to
those things, I think it is abit of one of those things where
you don't wish anyone to gothere, but also realise at the
same time to open your eyes tothat experience and realise how
lucky you can be like that. Youdon't wish it them to be there.
John Ciampino (30:17):
But sometimes they need a quick reality check,
just to realise how fortunate weare in Australia, and how
vulnerable we still are. Andthey do need that reality check.
Because what I hear on the news,and whatnot, I just turn it off,
shake my head walk away andgone. And
Andy Fermo (30:36):
it can be increasingly frustrating with
with what's going on, becausethere's a whole bunch of
different things way outside thescope here, wherever. What I'm
hearing, though, John, is thatthat moral injury or those bits
there that really can conflictwith you, as a former, as a
soldier, as a commander, someonein a position of leadership that
(30:56):
can conflict you when you comeback home from these things. So
is that something there thatyou've touched on it from your
deployments, which we'll move onfrom now? What was it that
started that you noticed thingsjust like in your 31 year career
started and I've
John Ciampino (31:12):
seen the biggest thing for me my PTSD especially
was and I've got to reiterate,there's nothing I didn't suffer
from any PTSD. Whilst I wasoverseas, even though I did come
back a change to person Idefinitely, where my PTSD
stemmed from was a trainingexpert. Yeah, for sure what that
(31:34):
say problems I was a sergeantback then, but weighing
operational deployment, andeverybody knows or hopefully
your audience knows what's alike five. It's a boat on rails
to 10 tonne watercraft thatdribbles both on water nor laid
and anyway, we just had areengineering programme.
Unfortunately, the engine was alittle bit lighter than the one
(31:57):
they poured out, of course, butrain, if anybody knows trim the
stability, they'll realise thatthe bow was actually dropping
further in the water whatinitially was when it was
designed, and we notice thatsomething was very much wrong
with these boats. When we wereoperating a rivet we normally do
what is called we piggyback. Sowe go up to the turn of the
(32:21):
other craft and now know, thebow on our craft who actually
laser we're literally beingpiggyback while the other book
happening anymore. What washappening was we were finding
that the noise was dipping. Somuch so that water was starting
to rush over the foredeck.
Right. And to us that was analarm bell. We did raise our
concerns but they said listeningthe door right, the boats were
(32:44):
still flowed and whatnot. Wethen conducted surf operations
the first time since thereengineering programme and we
took the boats out to to KenBay, Rainbow the rainbow be
lovely rainbow Bay. Anyway,we'll conduct the SERP
operations at one Friday nightthat was falling behind so the
stall pulled me aside and saidlisten in you take this guy out
(33:07):
and just give him additionaltraining no problems. So I went
through the complete drill wetook them out and I was tagged
number one, which is your lookout and you have a number two
which is your operator on theboat itself. The number one will
bring out commands will thenumber two to abide by and will
we drive out into turret fromland into the turret no problems
(33:32):
turned around came back. Okay,well it's to our buyback you can
now be the number one no be thenumber to me John exactly the
same thing so going out thereabsolutely no problems coming
back. That's where we had theissues. We conducted our pre
checks prior to exiting withthis dirt back the land and all
the pre check conducted bilgepumps. Ron will then walk down
(33:56):
within his right to go then hegave me the thumbs up go. He was
counting to six waves in everysenator said normally have
allowed and all I heard was outback or turned around on behind
me and I say nothing they bringwater does not stop now. Not
being old. She saw I plantedmore foot on the ground. We had
(34:19):
a chat about a leg. The bow ofthe boat was being lifted a
certain standard the boat wasbeing lifted the bow of the boat
dug into the water and literallystopped the shovelling the water
I had water coming into the cabon both sides and for you in New
York, the whole boat justflipped out and the boats were
(34:39):
actually designed right bythemselves. Unfortunately with
the crane on board at the centreof gravity was righties. It
didn't go we had a boat nowflipped over in the surf line,
the number one Socrative cabwith me. There was two of us in
the cab cab filled up with Waterwithin 15 seconds and the last
(35:00):
thing went through my mind wason going to off and my son did
because I knew I was going todie in there. And what happened
was I went into calming motionbut everything will remain
clear. I think within twominutes we got out of cab I
pushed him through the cab firstthrough the hydraulic lines and
(35:23):
whatnot he got out and then as Igot out I got my foot hooked up
in one of the hydraulic hoses sohere I am fighting get my foot
out and I finally got my footout saw this lie that swam
towards the lie and that liftslead before I knew it I was out
in the ocean right beside wherethe boat was still upside down.
(35:44):
Wheels are still spinning it wasstill getting the props are
still turning and it was upsidedown and buying my number one
though is screaming out whereare you in that was on the other
side of the boat so was wearingto each other sorry sorry about
sparked let's go low.
Unknown (36:04):
That's the main Yeah, were allied.
John Ciampino (36:06):
Let's get out of here. So probably about 150 200
metres out in the surf zone. Sowe're getting strong we're fully
closed and then we'll get thrownaround by the surf so I said
Poppy Jack popped out Jack theblade at them unfortunately yeah
the jack is because even thoughsemi flight will still get
(36:28):
thrown around the surf side areliterally pulled in pull the
jacket above off his neck andpull it above you so served in
like a boogie board that's whatwe did Larry the most sick boat
saying what was happening andwhatnot they reacted but they
couldn't get it and the reasonwhy I found out later so called
(36:50):
a couldn't plus was because thesurface to Ross we literally had
waiting for our lives. It tookus 45 minutes, we got caught in
a rip. And when I finally whenwe both finally got out the
debut the biggest hug in theworld because you know a lot of
people on board that were on theshoreline that wanted to jump on
(37:10):
to the lock problem get out andno matter what, but the Lord had
not had to reluctantly stay onshore and just watch us can we
had this Captain just sit there.
He didn't want to get his boots.
Wait. So I was in sand andwhatnot. I walked past him. And
the words came out of my mouthwas I'm not going to fuck her
now one day that one. And Iwalked off and the antibodies
(37:32):
were there and all that sort ofstuff. The adrenaline was built
up. I was like everybody'schecking us out and all this
shit chair. You're right. Butthat was the thing where we're
travelling here on the island.
Those took us back to a tin canBay. And probably two, three
hours. Once the adrenaline issubside that Springer's shot
that in and I had to leave themess. And I went out on the road
(37:56):
with all dark and I just brokedown. And the number one
offence, apparently they foundhim in the toilet, Kilda, crying
and all that sort of stuff. Soit was pretty hard from
Andy Fermo (38:08):
what you've said.
And I will just stop you for amoment just so I can paraphrase
what you've said. And what I'mhearing is that with that
incident, if anyone is into hasbeen on watercraft before or
into the surf, Rainbow Bay andthat if you're saying that the
surfs rough there, it would havebeen bloody rough. I've been to
that particular beach many timesas well. But if you're in a
(38:28):
vehicle, like that amphibiousvehicle that's flipping over for
your life, fighting for yourlife and then having to go
through all this the surf skillsswimming against a rib, then you
know, where's my support thesethoughts of survival, you've got
a subordinate there that's alsorelying on you are relying on
each other for that support toget through this getting onto
(38:51):
the beach and then having knownthat it was a observe and watch
type system scenario for thissupport. That's a lot of mixed
emotions that are coming in andhaving to deal with that in the
way that you did. Your body'sgone. My nervous systems pretty
shot here now. That's going tohappen. Right?
John Ciampino (39:12):
But that was first of all those that are
please continue for that hadbeen once what year or one we
then shut down. The exercise andactivity the boat is now it's
gone. It's sunk. There. Wereturned back to the squadron.
Over in Townsville, now becausewe've moved from Sydney to
(39:35):
Townsville, sorry in Townsville,all was requested by the OCC
Darren visitor and are stillthis is probably not even two
days after it happened. And thenshe'll go through and mostly
building up here and whatnot.
And we're going througheverything and in the end she
turned around and said tearsrolling down my eyes and she
(39:56):
looked mains said Wait, fine,you're alive, aren't you? And he
was like, holy shit. I don'thave to believe that just
fucking came out of your mouth.
And I left her office I wascalled straight into the SSM 's
office. And he ordered me standfor us I was discharged and then
(40:17):
he ordered me to stand posturein front of his desk and he
literally started ripping shredsat him. He was variety man still
there was no coming back isscreaming at me is dumping his
fist on the ground and blah blahthis and that and all that sort
of stuff. And literallysomething weighed in my mind
(40:38):
something just snapped. And thenfrom there, he said, sit down
with thought about Ah, that wasit. I my sense of being
supported by my peers andsuperiors just went out the
door. I was on my sales askingquestions I said No, Sir Yes
sir. No, sir. When he wasfinished Can I go now sir? Yep,
(41:00):
you can go and I went straightover the my car jumped in my car
went straight out. Doctor toldhim exactly what happened put me
on until week leavestraightaway. And then from
there, just ranked down heredied. Nine I had my PTSD but I
just suffered the most. Itwasn't embarrassing, because I
(41:22):
had nothing to be embarrassedabout. But the moral injury that
came across being I wasn't evenbeing supported by my peers and
superiors at all. And later onmade my said you best look at
the report because they'rehanging you out the dryer. And
of course when I requested thereport of reduced, of course you
would.
Claire Fermo (41:44):
Join us next time for the next episode of the
invisible injuries podcast.
Don't forget to subscribe. Formore great content, follow us on
our socials on Instagram. Andyou can also visit our website
www dot invisibleinjuries.org.au where you can
access more content. Thank youfor listening to invisible
(42:05):
injuries.
Welcome to invisible injuries podcast,
aimed at bettering the wellbeing and mental health,
veterans, first responders intheir immediate support
experiencing post traumaticstress. By sharing the stories
of the lived experiences of ourpeers, the support staff and the
clinicians, it's our aim to makesure we can have a meaningful
(00:27):
connection with our audience,and give them the ideas for
their own self care plan. If youdo like what you're hearing,
subscribe to the channel andshare it with your friends.
Lastly, these stories may be atrigger for your post traumatic
stress. If your PTSD istriggered, we have links to
(00:48):
support in the description. Orif it's immediate, please call
lifeline on 1311 14. Here's yourhost, Andy fermo.
Andy Fermo (01:02):
What was that difference in when you were like
it was observe, observe heartsand minds from that Bowgun Ville
environment to at that time withEast Timor because there was
some stuff. There was somepretty heavy stuff going on down
there, especially in the earlydays. What was that difference?
Like?
John Ciampino (01:18):
What do you think the bowden bill? Well, I told
him it was the best bloodyholiday I've been on. And spell
I looked at Biglerville beeneven though you expect the
unexpected is your burnterritory and whatnot. But you
really don't know what's goingto happen. So you've got your
mindset geared around that boatcoming back. It was Yeah. Well,
(01:39):
my first operation, that wasgreat. It was enjoyable. I loved
it. It was brown hug, day in dayout because every day was
exactly the same. And, and hegot to the stage where it got a
little bit boring. Yeah, some ofus joined the rapid reaction
force where he all get primedup. You wear your ballistic
(02:00):
taping and whatnot. You haveyour ass buttons and jump on a
helicopter and you trailingafter hours. Then we'll call it
out a couple of foreign spentknocking eventuated from it.
Yeah. But in the end that selfwas my adrenaline rush. Yeah,
there's in there giving thatknowing that you're possibly
(02:22):
going into harm's way andwhatnot. You've got ballistic
protection and in Spartan,they've got automatic rifles.
Andy Fermo (02:29):
They say don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Yeah,
pretty much.
John Ciampino (02:33):
We had no choice back then. But yeah, it was
good. Holding all my bogey Villeexperience was very positive.
Yeah. Loved it. And for the guysthat went fishing, they just
were crying. They loved it. Ofcourse, the fishing was
absolutely fantastic over there.
And the locals were broadlyloved though. We did have a good
working record with them aswell.
Andy Fermo (02:55):
Yeah. And then so when you got to Timor, Then
where were you based there andwhat was that sort of that
John Ciampino (03:02):
all was based just outside of Delhi in
Campbell Barrett, the watercraftwere based over in New Delhi
port. And literally, it wascompletely different. As soon as
we arrived, we were shoved invehicles going straight over to
Campbell barracks, where we wereissued with the weapons, rounds,
ballistic protection, all thatsort of stuff. Then of course,
(03:24):
we had our hand over take overfor a week, new crews went onto
their boats checked out theirweapon systems. Each of the
boats had shifted to gallonmachine guns 5000 rounds per
Bowdoin whatnot. And yes, theywent through the drills,
checking out the weapons systemsgoing on trips as the secretary
(03:44):
curry to watch how the othercrew operated. Of course, I was
stuck in the ops room being asergeant. I couldn't go with my
boat. So I was stuck in the opsroom doing you know, tasks,
things and whatnot. In to me, itwas completely different as
complete reverse. We knew thatwe were literally in harm's way.
(04:07):
And there was a reason why those1000 soldiers out there with
weapons and whatnot. But notonly that, we actually went
there where we transitioned fromtrading to anti UN peacekeeping
force aside the either by thefrom one operation straining to
anti it, it was yeah, it wascompletely different. The threat
(04:31):
was still there. What can I sayabout East Timor? It changed me.
It changed a lot of people,especially in those early days.
And I went in East Timor,probably eight months after
initially started so it wasstill quite volatile. Yeah. The
towns were in Delhi. It wasstarting to people starting to
(04:55):
get back in some form ofnormality. You had the walk We
call the venga buses where youhad about a dozen each team or
he's hanging off the edge ofthese so called buses that they
had running up and down thestreets. You're working with
other international forces. Andyeah, so a lot of things were
different about
Andy Fermo (05:16):
that what was said that your team or experience in
deployments changed you how that
John Ciampino (05:21):
suppose in a big way I was actually it is my
first time was just the peoplethat literally suffering, the
locals were suffering. They werehappy will there but they'll
living in absolute poverty. Thisis where the rubber hits the
road. And this is for real, thisis why we're either here to
support the stay Marie's ortheir independence and whatnot.
(05:44):
But watching and working aroundthe locals and whatnot, even
though we're in closed camp, butwhen we did go out, which was
quite break when mixing with thelocals and whatnot, just seeing
how they'll live in literally aday to day existence for them.
Because again, theinfrastructure was pretty much
gone. The windows made sure thatwhen they left, and I'm not
(06:08):
afraid of saying that, becausethat's exactly what happened.
And then trying and watching theSt. Mary's pick up the pieces
and fine, we'll get on with law,and that I struggled a lot, and
it came down to the basicnecessities as well. So much so
and a lot of us are you ridingup bow families, and we've got
any clothes you don't needgentlemen over. And this is what
(06:31):
we're doing. We're actuallygetting care packages for
clothes and we went to villagesand whatnot, just pastor. Yeah,
Andy Fermo (06:37):
so a lot of that's that civic dude, that the
additional civic duty, besidesyour duty as a military, as a
soldier, and then the operation,then what you're describing, as
well as that to that some ofthat challenge challenges, the
moral codes and also exposes youto other things and how other
societies can be affected byconflict and war. Right. What
(07:00):
and
John Ciampino (07:01):
this befriended a lot of families out there
because, of course, Canterbury'sskirted townships and whatnots
though a lot of locals werethere, though smiling, waving to
us, and just watching him walkaround in rags, and I thought
may have been a very luckycountry, and we're very wasteful
country. Why not just do theright thing. We worked it out.
(07:21):
So he did get free postage. Andthen we've got clothing and then
we started giving them ourclothes and now we're just
beside them. So for us, it waslike you're gonna put it in the
Vinny spinner. We're gonna giveit to them, or I'll give it to
them. Yeah, I think we were themain call called also, all the
kids and the dental the futuredental requirements because we
(07:46):
did pass out a crapload oflollies, our little three toys
and one that every time we wentout there we had bands and
Wally's would try. Yeah. 10years down the track, they end
up developing cavities and allthat sort of stopped, our heart
was in the right place, but wejust didn't think about that.
Andy Fermo (08:03):
Yeah, that that's one of the things is is winning
the hearts and minds is onething, but there are more
beneficial ways to be able to doit. But at the time you're
creating relationships with thepeople. And I think that's the
main thing you're not thinkingabout what's going to be the
flow on effect
John Ciampino (08:18):
D and that was part and parcel so I suppose we
have operations and whatnot,please do not hand the kids and
the lollies they don't scrubtheir teeth and they will get
the K and whatnot. So the fairenough, but yeah, I suppose and
everything so we just throw themin here that I loved that
something that was cost us nextto nothing, but it brought him a
(08:38):
lot of joy and put a smile onour faces.
Andy Fermo (08:40):
That's a big one there as well. All those little
things there when you can havethat feel good of being in an in
a place where there's thesmallest things that you think
in our society don't mean muchused clothes destined for the
Vinnies been and tennis ballscan mean such a lot for these
people. And that that's the bigthing on this they're exposed to
(09:00):
when people have had everythingtaken away for them and poverty.
That can happen that was EastTimor, and then fast forwarding
that little bit more because Iknow that I want to start
talking about what happened toyou and how all this stuff
affected you. Anna Stan wasagain here because shortly after
then there was a busy time thatwas Timor and Bowgun Ville
(09:22):
through to Timor and then fromthere that's when the steam
train started rolling throughdinner really pretty
John Ciampino (09:27):
much all I was doing my subject one pole worn
off sir way. I walked into thebro room and looked on the TV
and watch the plane smashed intothe Twin Towers. And I'm
thinking the first thing I saidwas what the fuck just happened?
Yes, he's language but my mindsaid the same thing. Straight
(09:48):
after that. The barracks wentinto complete lockdown. So I was
over. Yeah, sorry. I had briny.
Yeah, no, it was over in theGold Coast. Cananga Nangarhar
Yes? Yeah, my memories. But Willthere Cananga doing my subject
and a sub one for our WarrantOfficer when this all happened?
(10:09):
And as soon as that happenedwithin two days, can Unruh went
into lockdown? Shall we addinfantry over there during the
next size? Well pulled out ofthat size are no the gods. So I
literally alle abilities verylocked down, you waited until
the buildings were opened andwalked in, they lock the
building behind you, becausenobody knew what was going on at
(10:30):
ground level was growing at thattime, because, of course elbow
changed on that died. Oh, yes.
And I would say less than amonth after me leaving Canungra
I was on a ship, then towardsthe northern Arabian Gulf, I was
on HMA SendinBlue, we had to allshare mates. And we had other
(10:55):
equipment on board. What ourprimary role was because we'll
attach the Navy whilst you stockall the ships smuggling out oil
from Iraq. And because the shipsout there, you've got a river
system that goes out to theocean. And these are the smaller
(11:16):
tankers, they try to skirt thecoast stay within the 12
nautical mile, because that isterritorial waters. And we've
gotten our jurisdiction withinterritorial waters, when they
have to go into theinternational waters to skirt
around rates or rocks orwhatever. That's the time that
we nab them. And that was ourwhole and sole job out there was
(11:36):
working with the Navy SEALs,which we got introduced to and
whatnot. And from there, Loulilypads saw the Navy SEALs used
to hang up our boats were thereNS and NS, W's, we've got a
different name, we're offeringthe same to Commander operators,
same autograph, Neil. So theyhung out for us and we fed them.
(12:00):
And from there, when it was timeto pounce on the ships, they
went ahead, kill the ship wherehe was supposed to follow up,
they'll secure a tie line to theLCME will timeout proceed at
this area holding area where theUS Navy was actually holding
other ships in there. Andliterally, they were under the
(12:24):
gun show the US Navy until theforces went on board done the
clearing and whatnot found outwhat was smuggling, they did.
And of course, so taken away anddealt with accordingly,
according to the laws. But thatwas pretty much our job. That's
Andy Fermo (12:40):
so interesting to be able to hear that because when
you in that sort of if we castback to this is your role. This
is the this is your lane so tospeak. But when you're an
operations and you're goingsomewhere like that, you
mentioned before we pressedrecord, that there was these
other interesting things thatcan happen when you're on
operations. And what happens outof it as the fact that lily pad
(13:03):
using the seals like all thesedifferent roles and why you're
there that's definitely openedmy eyes to what the role would
have been in the sea because itis a much larger picture of what
was happening at that time.
Right it's definitely
John Ciampino (13:18):
and if you can appreciate the Jew the
geographical location of all theother countries within the
northern Arabian Gulf you haveIran in one corner and then like
right next door to Iraq have abit more you have Afghanistan
around the corner he had Kuwaitand they had the in around there
(13:40):
UAE and that was it. So it waslike five separate countries
within the cell for agentliterally, it's you're literally
working around sometimes veryvolatile countries. Yeah. One
instance was we were actuallysupposed to set up a lily pad
(14:00):
ready for the Navy SEALs to do ajob that got canned. So we went
anchor her Of course we wentanchor in the national water.
And we were stoked. Basically wewill be shadowed by an unnamed
vessel and it came up on radarit was quite a large blimp so we
knew it was quite a large stripvessel. And of course so we
(14:23):
started with our airways, butthey played dumb, closer and
closer in the end. We had togive them warning shots. However
their bow with their 50 counts.
With the ROA Navy ROA is onethat commander controlled navy.
You have to give warning shotsfirst before you start shooting
at them were an army Roa.
(14:46):
There's no such thing as warningshots. You have fire, but it was
a gradual escalation ofaggression. Dave Hill first
thing was over the radiofloodlights, then we find flares
out them in just chill on theradio with them and whatnot no
answer they got to the stagewhere they're getting too close
(15:08):
and what goes through your mind
Unknown (15:10):
yes through your mind
John Ciampino (15:12):
oh yeah fuck did you do and you're fucked up but
I said to the pro there's nogoddamn way this board on board
these boats and because in theend we knew that it was a patrol
boat from a country of originwhatever they would have been
blistering with weapons systemsside yeah yep pretty well
(15:35):
screwed all we had was ah theboats had chief decals we had
our purse weapons and thankfullyenough we had clearance divers
on board as well in a looked atit and say what that oh Edo it
certainly Vicki they're gettingany closer mine I'm gonna jump
in the water and jump on boardand lift them all right now
(15:55):
might just sit there and I hadanother clarity saw a hardened
behind it and why Prof. I saidseriously do just jump in the
world they've lived my lifecraft, a life raft was made of
fibreglass shell of his robberwho was gonna soak up all that.
Yeah, but in the end, we did ourjob with a when we did open fire
on them, they lit up like aChristmas tree. And not only
(16:18):
that, but the radio just lit uplike the knocking going yeah.
And of course he was on theradio screaming something in
Arabic, his whole ship lit up toput off the lights on and walk
know what we were in in contactwith an invalid and invalid
request that we are V with andstraightaway. So we are paying
(16:41):
it and we left. And of coursethe little buggers were
following us. So turned aroundon the radio again, I said if
you do not break away right nowI've been up with almost 50
kills. And so he is in towardsup in that was sharp
Andy Fermo (16:55):
left trying to test you to see how failure resolved
was pretty
John Ciampino (16:59):
much the opposite of sip water on these boats,
they are not sticking ball onthese boats.
Andy Fermo (17:03):
And from from what I'm hearing John as well with
that sort of story and what'shappening, you never really know
the height of readiness. Andthis is the thing from talking
and bringing it to mental healthpoint of view is never really
know you're at a heightenedstate of awareness because the
unknowns there, right, youmentioned before is your
training will kick in whensomething happens. But it's
(17:26):
always the unknown if you've gota, like you said with ROP
shooting across the bow. Butthen there's also courses of
action there that come in. Andthose also have effect on you as
well, isn't it really
John Ciampino (17:37):
and this is a thing that actually
unfortunately, some of my crewmembers did suffer PTSD out of
that action, because literallythey thought they'll guard to
die. Yeah, that was one of therisks that was involved with the
job. One week was alright, aftera while, but the other one just
went downhill. Of
Andy Fermo (17:58):
course, I think it's how everyone's you could have
five people in the sameincident, and further down the
track. And this is how we withmental health and unpacking that
experience, everyone'sexperience of the same incident
is always going to be a littlebit different. And they're all
valid experiences. However, thething is that what happens to
the body in that environment aswell, from that experience, is
(18:20):
totally different. And that'sthe after effect of what we're
going to be moving on to. And
John Ciampino (18:25):
this is where conditioning, all the member
who's joined the first horsebecomes very prevalent, need to
be harked. Society doesn'tagree. But in the end their
life, that's the person who'sholding that weapons life. So
you need to give him all thetools that he needs to do that
job at that time. Oh,
Andy Fermo (18:45):
it's so interesting, isn't it? You have to give them
the tools to do that. And okay,this was it early game, right?
It is. And so you have to givepeople those tools to make those
decisions and do what they haveto do. And we've got that part
of when you went to Afghanistanand Middle East. Were there
subsequent deployments inregards to
John Ciampino (19:04):
Solomon Islands was my last deployment. Yeah.
And literally, it was federalplaced leg. Yeah. And the Army
themselves were there as thestick. So the federal police had
the run of the operation. And wewere there. Just because again,
(19:24):
we had the tool, the FederalPolice to where they need to go,
Yeah, my main job there wasBetamax. I was awarness class to
them, who that aberration. Andmy job was initially to offload
the ship, which was a menorahand float all cargo and whatnot.
(19:45):
And from there, open up beachesaround the various islands
around Solomon island chain. Itwas great. Listen, in the end
that was an operation that Ireally enjoyed because my set
skills as you Not as a soldier,but as a beach masters that was
marine came into effect. Yeah.
And that was literallyorganising he to be open. So I
(20:08):
would travel by boat byhelicopter or by road to
specific beaches of interestthen from there or conducted by
trade comm I would have aninfantry soldier with me as my
security. And from there we willgo through literally from the
back of beach all the way theywould wilt in that soundings
(20:31):
tank literally boring. The bestpossible route for LCM eight or
LC H is to actually land inoffload the good being initially
dozers front end loader, Macktruck full of equipment to
actually set up our placeoutposts. Such
Andy Fermo (20:52):
such an important job that people don't think
about, let's get how do we dothis? But how do we enable this,
this is getting the resourcesthat are out there and
available. Such an importantjob. And so, John, I'm having
spoken to this and then youmentioned before by that stage,
you're worried too when you'reyou're doing this different role
with as a beach master? Can youspeak a little bit more to
(21:15):
because he had such a big andlong career in the military is
going on these deployments atdifferent stages in the your
career. So going from say like acorporal position to that first
Bowgun Ville and team orfollowing through team or then
you had the Middle East? Andthen going to Solomon Islands as
a warrant officer? Can you justspeak to that a little bit more
(21:38):
and how the experience changesat the different
John Ciampino (21:42):
parquet? Well, pretty much what Bowgun Ville I
think it was an introduction tooverseas operations there
Cypress Wade actually introducethe soldier to overseas
operations now, for up level,even though I was there was
extremely low. We put a lot oftrust in a local sense. That's
why we went in unarmed for us todo the job that we were doing
(22:03):
was very important not only forthe bogey billion people, but
boy country itself to get backup after a 10 Year Walk, which
literally destroyed everythingwe went in, we had to be self
sufficient. That was the one bigthing because we couldn't rely
on the other resources becausethere was literally knocking
there and begging to eat,everything had to be flowing,
(22:24):
including our food, bottledwater, our food had to be flown
in from Australia, all that sortof stuff, because literally
there was nothing there. Thencame East Timor, the bigger
operation, this warlikeoperation, carrying weapons
around you have to haveliterally your senses about
Rekia, you had that being the myright mindset, right frame of
(22:47):
mind, knowing that it could be athreat around the corner, but
also knowing that there arelocals there as well. Were there
there was ces there. And whenthey help then and again, help a
country transition go out ourcountry that was rolled under
another country transitioningsay criminal themselves. That
was a very important thing forus because we knew we were doing
(23:10):
good will there at the end mightend up from there. Once the job
was done. We left with thatagainst and that was a
sharpshooter, this was probablythe most important operation of
all because it was a war againstterror. Again, everybody it was
(23:31):
a training was extensive littletime that we had we went through
a lot of training a month oftraining before we actually went
in country. And that was on theship heading out towards there.
And then once we were therecause Chow summit there when tap
say there was an admin whocrossed hemisphere now we're in
the northern hemisphere duringthe winter time, we weren't
(23:54):
properly prepared for thatnotary war, because the call out
would say please, but we mightdo with what we got. We did join
up with the Americans on ourroad cam Doha working with the
Navy SEALs, air and whatnot.
That was the truly memorableexperience. I think after the
incident we had an the golfer aNavy Seal, Lieutenant walked up
(24:14):
to me punched me in the arm andsaid, I can't believe it. You're
here for three weeks you sawreaction and we've been evil for
months. Haven't you been fired?
Andy Fermo (24:24):
No, right, isn't it?
I just come in here, my job'sdone there. But back to that
humour. And that black humourthat you can get to get by. But
the former as he was in thatrole going speaking to the
Solomon Islands, as someone whowas in upper management, then up
your Sergeant Warrant Officer,you've got diggers underneath
you that you're keeping safe. Sodid that have different role
(24:45):
there compared to those earlierdays when Well, that's a command
sort of element right?
John Ciampino (24:53):
It didn't know why see being when we actually
did deploy over Solomon Islands.
We I deployed as a beach landingteam. Net. And that was a
primary role that what we wereback in Australia. And so we
deployed as the beach landingteam we went in, I think it
will, yet we offload the CMH hadall of my equipment on board
(25:14):
there. And then we'll put in aholding pattern for about an
hour. And we went on the radiosof what is the problem? Why are
we holding off? And the answercame back Oh, wait for the press
to arrive so they can takepictures of you landing on the
beach. And wait, he got beshooting real. Okay, now
authorities. So that happened.
(25:37):
We landed on the bait done, ourjob started offloading all the
cargo off MINOURA. In once wegot into the cycle, we have all
the roles and responsibilitiesand all the people because we do
train hard. We are a small teamon the beach and give a speech
and team we're very small team.
So we sat down during theplanet. And we started rolling
(25:57):
everything in from there. We setup the beach and operational
beach land side or Red Beach.
Were that was water canal BeachResort. That was the reason why
it's called Red beaches. That'sthe place where the US actually
landed. And they caught RedBeach because it was covered in
(26:19):
blood and whatnot. But yeah, wewere the first forces to land
there. Since World War Two, thenthis is history again. Yeah.
Which was great. From there.
Once we settled into Allred saneand whatnot, Moon will then we
started and the Federal Policewere comfortable on securing
around area from the air westarted to branch out. And
(26:41):
before anybody can go out, holdon, we have to make sure that we
can get vessels in there as whatthe abt done, I suppose in the
way that each operationalemployment had its inherent
risks. The iOpener for me wasEast Timor, because I did come
back a different person. And thereason why I say that was the I
(27:04):
was in a car with my then wifeand her mother in law after
jumping off a plane from histable and there will arguing
where they'll go under eight.
Now I was in the backseat, noneWhy not shut and fucking
Matthew. And they were justgoing off about I want to eat
here I want to eat. In the end,I just exploded and basically
(27:26):
told them both shuttler park up,decide where you want to eat.
You guys don't realise how luckyyou are. I've just came back
from a place that they juststarving here. They're hungry,
they've got nothing. And they'reto me. It just came out. And I
just stepped back for a littlebit. Because I did upset them to
(27:48):
the stage where the mother hassaid, I'm going back home. Okay,
your wife says we go back hometurns itself I'd go back home
because to me their problemswere so trivial. It was just not
even on the radar. Yeah, hithere, I just came back from
places that are suffering.
People were literally sufferingthrough that. And to me, it was
just the first of
Andy Fermo (28:10):
all problems. And I'm glad. And that's where, as
you mentioned before, rightearlier on in the piece was is
that East Timor changed you inthose perspectives, the person
that comes back changes fromthose from what I'm hearing, and
it wasn't quite the penetrationthat you probably would have had
in your head when you came home.
Definitely had this thinghappen. First world problems
(28:30):
that would have just been whereare we going to eat in the
excitement, you're back. Butthen from your point of view,
you just got there as a man thatthis is mainly shit that you're
arguing over, come from and thenhaven't been able to really
unpack that. And that's like anoutburst now, was that the sort
of same in terms of when you gotback from a changed man from
those other deployments?
John Ciampino (28:54):
Yeah, with Afghanistan, we were lucky
enough to stay on the ship andsell back to our style. So it
took us a month to get back toAustralia. So it was our
decompression, which was great.
Absolutely. When we did get backto Australia, and the boss said,
So Joe, how was it? I said, I'llnever fucking go back to
Afghanistan for all the frickintea in China. I said, we, we are
(29:16):
so much in the lucky country.
We're geographically isolatedfrom all this shit. People don't
realise how lucky they are toactually live in a country
lockout. We've got everything.
Value for life. He's very highout in here. We're in other
countries. That means absolutelynothing. And it's Yeah. We are
(29:38):
very lucky. A lot of peopledon't realise how lucky they
are. And I said, Listen, it'sgoing to have to take a conflict
in Australia are a lot of peopleto wake up to themselves. Do you
just realised how lucky we are?
Andy Fermo (29:56):
It is a different viewpoint, isn't it? And if
you're not if you're not thereWhen you haven't been exposed to
those things, I think it is abit of one of those things where
you don't wish anyone to gothere, but also realise at the
same time to open your eyes tothat experience and realise how
lucky you can be like that. Youdon't wish it them to be there.
John Ciampino (30:17):
But sometimes they need a quick reality check,
just to realise how fortunate weare in Australia, and how
vulnerable we still are. Andthey do need that reality check.
Because what I hear on the news,and whatnot, I just turn it off,
shake my head walk away andgone. And
Andy Fermo (30:36):
it can be increasingly frustrating with
with what's going on, becausethere's a whole bunch of
different things way outside thescope here, wherever. What I'm
hearing, though, John, is thatthat moral injury or those bits
there that really can conflictwith you, as a former, as a
soldier, as a commander, someonein a position of leadership that
(30:56):
can conflict you when you comeback home from these things. So
is that something there thatyou've touched on it from your
deployments, which we'll move onfrom now? What was it that
started that you noticed thingsjust like in your 31 year career
started and I've
John Ciampino (31:12):
seen the biggest thing for me my PTSD especially
was and I've got to reiterate,there's nothing I didn't suffer
from any PTSD. Whilst I wasoverseas, even though I did come
back a change to person Idefinitely, where my PTSD
stemmed from was a trainingexpert. Yeah, for sure what that
(31:34):
say problems I was a sergeantback then, but weighing
operational deployment, andeverybody knows or hopefully
your audience knows what's alike five. It's a boat on rails
to 10 tonne watercraft thatdribbles both on water nor laid
and anyway, we just had areengineering programme.
Unfortunately, the engine was alittle bit lighter than the one
(31:57):
they poured out, of course, butrain, if anybody knows trim the
stability, they'll realise thatthe bow was actually dropping
further in the water whatinitially was when it was
designed, and we notice thatsomething was very much wrong
with these boats. When we wereoperating a rivet we normally do
what is called we piggyback. Sowe go up to the turn of the
(32:21):
other craft and now know, thebow on our craft who actually
laser we're literally beingpiggyback while the other book
happening anymore. What washappening was we were finding
that the noise was dipping. Somuch so that water was starting
to rush over the foredeck.
Right. And to us that was analarm bell. We did raise our
concerns but they said listeningthe door right, the boats were
(32:44):
still flowed and whatnot. Wethen conducted surf operations
the first time since thereengineering programme and we
took the boats out to to KenBay, Rainbow the rainbow be
lovely rainbow Bay. Anyway,we'll conduct the SERP
operations at one Friday nightthat was falling behind so the
stall pulled me aside and saidlisten in you take this guy out
(33:07):
and just give him additionaltraining no problems. So I went
through the complete drill wetook them out and I was tagged
number one, which is your lookout and you have a number two
which is your operator on theboat itself. The number one will
bring out commands will thenumber two to abide by and will
we drive out into turret fromland into the turret no problems
(33:32):
turned around came back. Okay,well it's to our buyback you can
now be the number one no be thenumber to me John exactly the
same thing so going out thereabsolutely no problems coming
back. That's where we had theissues. We conducted our pre
checks prior to exiting withthis dirt back the land and all
the pre check conducted bilgepumps. Ron will then walk down
(33:56):
within his right to go then hegave me the thumbs up go. He was
counting to six waves in everysenator said normally have
allowed and all I heard was outback or turned around on behind
me and I say nothing they bringwater does not stop now. Not
being old. She saw I plantedmore foot on the ground. We had
(34:19):
a chat about a leg. The bow ofthe boat was being lifted a
certain standard the boat wasbeing lifted the bow of the boat
dug into the water and literallystopped the shovelling the water
I had water coming into the cabon both sides and for you in New
York, the whole boat justflipped out and the boats were
(34:39):
actually designed right bythemselves. Unfortunately with
the crane on board at the centreof gravity was righties. It
didn't go we had a boat nowflipped over in the surf line,
the number one Socrative cabwith me. There was two of us in
the cab cab filled up with Waterwithin 15 seconds and the last
(35:00):
thing went through my mind wason going to off and my son did
because I knew I was going todie in there. And what happened
was I went into calming motionbut everything will remain
clear. I think within twominutes we got out of cab I
pushed him through the cab firstthrough the hydraulic lines and
(35:23):
whatnot he got out and then as Igot out I got my foot hooked up
in one of the hydraulic hoses sohere I am fighting get my foot
out and I finally got my footout saw this lie that swam
towards the lie and that liftslead before I knew it I was out
in the ocean right beside wherethe boat was still upside down.
(35:44):
Wheels are still spinning it wasstill getting the props are
still turning and it was upsidedown and buying my number one
though is screaming out whereare you in that was on the other
side of the boat so was wearingto each other sorry sorry about
sparked let's go low.
Unknown (36:04):
That's the main Yeah, were allied.
John Ciampino (36:06):
Let's get out of here. So probably about 150 200
metres out in the surf zone. Sowe're getting strong we're fully
closed and then we'll get thrownaround by the surf so I said
Poppy Jack popped out Jack theblade at them unfortunately yeah
the jack is because even thoughsemi flight will still get
(36:28):
thrown around the surf side areliterally pulled in pull the
jacket above off his neck andpull it above you so served in
like a boogie board that's whatwe did Larry the most sick boat
saying what was happening andwhatnot they reacted but they
couldn't get it and the reasonwhy I found out later so called
(36:50):
a couldn't plus was because thesurface to Ross we literally had
waiting for our lives. It tookus 45 minutes, we got caught in
a rip. And when I finally whenwe both finally got out the
debut the biggest hug in theworld because you know a lot of
people on board that were on theshoreline that wanted to jump on
(37:10):
to the lock problem get out andno matter what, but the Lord had
not had to reluctantly stay onshore and just watch us can we
had this Captain just sit there.
He didn't want to get his boots.
Wait. So I was in sand andwhatnot. I walked past him. And
the words came out of my mouthwas I'm not going to fuck her
now one day that one. And Iwalked off and the antibodies
(37:32):
were there and all that sort ofstuff. The adrenaline was built
up. I was like everybody'schecking us out and all this
shit chair. You're right. Butthat was the thing where we're
travelling here on the island.
Those took us back to a tin canBay. And probably two, three
hours. Once the adrenaline issubside that Springer's shot
that in and I had to leave themess. And I went out on the road
(37:56):
with all dark and I just brokedown. And the number one
offence, apparently they foundhim in the toilet, Kilda, crying
and all that sort of stuff. Soit was pretty hard from
Andy Fermo (38:08):
what you've said.
And I will just stop you for amoment just so I can paraphrase
what you've said. And what I'mhearing is that with that
incident, if anyone is into hasbeen on watercraft before or
into the surf, Rainbow Bay andthat if you're saying that the
surfs rough there, it would havebeen bloody rough. I've been to
that particular beach many timesas well. But if you're in a
(38:28):
vehicle, like that amphibiousvehicle that's flipping over for
your life, fighting for yourlife and then having to go
through all this the surf skillsswimming against a rib, then you
know, where's my support thesethoughts of survival, you've got
a subordinate there that's alsorelying on you are relying on
each other for that support toget through this getting onto
(38:51):
the beach and then having knownthat it was a observe and watch
type system scenario for thissupport. That's a lot of mixed
emotions that are coming in andhaving to deal with that in the
way that you did. Your body'sgone. My nervous systems pretty
shot here now. That's going tohappen. Right?
John Ciampino (39:12):
But that was first of all those that are
please continue for that hadbeen once what year or one we
then shut down. The exercise andactivity the boat is now it's
gone. It's sunk. There. Wereturned back to the squadron.
Over in Townsville, now becausewe've moved from Sydney to
(39:35):
Townsville, sorry in Townsville,all was requested by the OCC
Darren visitor and are stillthis is probably not even two
days after it happened. And thenshe'll go through and mostly
building up here and whatnot.
And we're going througheverything and in the end she
turned around and said tearsrolling down my eyes and she
(39:56):
looked mains said Wait, fine,you're alive, aren't you? And he
was like, holy shit. I don'thave to believe that just
fucking came out of your mouth.
And I left her office I wascalled straight into the SSM 's
office. And he ordered me standfor us I was discharged and then
(40:17):
he ordered me to stand posturein front of his desk and he
literally started ripping shredsat him. He was variety man still
there was no coming back isscreaming at me is dumping his
fist on the ground and blah blahthis and that and all that sort
of stuff. And literallysomething weighed in my mind
(40:38):
something just snapped. And thenfrom there, he said, sit down
with thought about Ah, that wasit. I my sense of being
supported by my peers andsuperiors just went out the
door. I was on my sales askingquestions I said No, Sir Yes
sir. No, sir. When he wasfinished Can I go now sir? Yep,
(41:00):
you can go and I went straightover the my car jumped in my car
went straight out. Doctor toldhim exactly what happened put me
on until week leavestraightaway. And then from
there, just ranked down heredied. Nine I had my PTSD but I
just suffered the most. Itwasn't embarrassing, because I
(41:22):
had nothing to be embarrassedabout. But the moral injury that
came across being I wasn't evenbeing supported by my peers and
superiors at all. And later onmade my said you best look at
the report because they'rehanging you out the dryer. And
of course when I requested thereport of reduced, of course you
would.
Claire Fermo (41:44):
Join us next time for the next episode of the
invisible injuries podcast.
Don't forget to subscribe. Formore great content, follow us on
our socials on Instagram. Andyou can also visit our website
www dot invisibleinjuries.org.au where you can
access more content. Thank youfor listening to invisible
(42:05):
injuries.
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.