E22 - Tanya Selvaratnam - IPV and Me: My Journey with Domestic Abuse

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello! How's it going guys? Welcome back to IPV and me. Really excited to be here. I apologize

(00:16):
if my voice sounds a little croaky. I'm sick again. Choking. I've been... So I started
last week I had a cold and then on Tuesday night I woke up in the middle of the night
and I had the worst pain on my abdomen and then just I just have like... Kind of an ongoing

(00:39):
thing. I've always had like digestive issues anyway. My mom likes to tell me I got it from
my dad but yeah it's not been fun. Today I kind of feel okay today. I'm a little bit
nauseous. Yesterday was the first day I started feeling like normal so yeah that's not been fun.
I've just been... I feel like honestly ever since I got COVID the very first time I just get sick

(01:03):
so easily now. I think kind of a lot of people are in the same boat though but it sucks but you
know what here we are. It's Monday. It's president's day. Yeah I am working straight through for the
next eight days and then I go to Ireland which I'm so excited about. I feel like I haven't been
there forever even though I was there in October but I guess that's like a lot of five months now.

(01:27):
I just can't wait to see my nephews. I'm so excited. They're so damn cute and I just really want
that nice fresh Irish air. So bad. I just want to walk on the beach. I want to go to Benny's.
That's Primark for all you US listeners. Yeah so I'm super excited about that. It's nice. Like if

(01:49):
you live in New York you know sometimes you just need a break so bad from the city. Like
all I want to do is just you know see the sky you know. But anyways I've not been up to a whole lot
just been working and then off sick and then working again and then off sick again. I've been

(02:13):
watching a lot of TV. I actually just started and finished the Traders UK which I was really
excited about because there was such hype about it. Honestly one of the best reality shows I've
ever seen. Well I know I'm a whore for reality to be but honestly it was one of the best I've
ever seen. It was tense. It was emotional. It's twists and turns. It was just like honestly

(02:36):
the best group of contestants I've ever seen on a reality show was so good. I'm watching the US
one currently and just not loving it as much. Like you know the Americans are so dramatic but it's
never like like the UK one was dramatic but it was real drama. Americans are just so like because
most of them on it are already reality show contestants from other shows and like you know

(02:59):
it's like fake and just they're trying to cause drama which I don't like as much. And also what
I'm not liking is that all the tasks are exactly the same as the UK ones so it kind of feels like
I'm just watching the same show but with different contestants it was not as good. But I gotta keep
going anyway and I'm gonna watch the Australian one too. I haven't heard much about that but
gotta give it a go anyways. Any kind of reality to be. I'm all for it. Housewives, anything,

(03:24):
fan of prompruals, like big brother Love Island. Love Island. Actually Love Island this year I've
kind of given up on. I watched the first two weeks and just like oh it was just so boring. It's the
first time I've ever actually given up on a series of Love Island which is really surprising.
But I'm probably gonna like because I have like I said I'm gonna be on a five hour flight next

(03:47):
week so I might just like download the episodes I haven't watched and just like you know something
mind I like to watch something mind-numbing when I'm on the plane. So there you go. Also speaking
of I have read a lot of books. I went to a book signing of Barnes and Noble the other week for
Pamela Anderson's memoir guys. I met Pamela Anderson. Now if you know anything about me,

(04:14):
Pamela Anderson is one of my idols since I was a kid. Like I remember the first time I watched
Baywatch and I was an Avid Baywatch fan. I loved it for the storylines you know
but I saw I remember seeing her like CJ Parker and I thought she was the coolest,

(04:35):
most gorgeous woman I'd ever seen in my life and then I just came hooked on Pamela Anderson.
I just love her. I think she's so cool. I think she's so gorgeous. I think she's the most beautiful
woman that ever worked planet and she's just really cool and her vibe is great and like
meeting her honestly was just like she took my breath away. She still looks stunning.

(04:56):
She's so gorgeous. She was so sweet. She like looked right in my eyes when she was talking to me.
She wrote a lovely message on my book and you know I just kind of like I just said to her you know
I hope that you're feeling all of the love and support from everyone for the last week because

(05:17):
her her book had just come out and then her documentary had been out the week before and she
was like you know she just really looked at me and was like you know what I really really am
it's been a tough ride and thank you so much for your support. Like she was so genuine and I had a
nice little chit chat with her and it was just really cool. It was so fun and yeah I'm just I'm
still kind of like on a buzz from that one. So anyway that's all for my catch up right now. I won't

(05:44):
ramble too much because I got a lot to get through today. So today's episode if you are
a New Yorker, if you've lived in New York, if you know anything about New York politics you will
probably have heard of this story. If you followed the Me Too movement you'll have heard of this story

(06:04):
and I remember at the time when it was happening when the story broke and it's a really interesting
one because it gets kind of a little behind the scenes of you know it really shows like the power
that people in politics have and how things get covered up and I took most of this story pretty

(06:32):
much all of this story apart from a few things along the way I took from this lady's memoir and
I have linked everything in the bio as per usual. So today I'm going to talk about the story of
Tanya Silvarinam.

(06:58):
On May 7th 2018 a story broke in the New Yorker. Eric Schneiderman, New York's attorney general,
has long been a liberal democratic champion of women's rights and recently he's become an outspoken
figure in the Me Too movement against sexual harassment. As New York State's highest ranking
law enforcement officer Schneiderman who is 63 has used his authority to take legal action against

(07:22):
the disgraced film mogul Harvey Weinstein and to demand greater compensation for the victims of
Weinstein's alleged sexual crimes. Last month when the Times and this magazine were awarded a joint
Pulitzer Prize for coverage of sexual harassment Schneiderman issued a congratulatory tweet praising
the brave women and men who spoke up about the sexual harassment they had endured at the hands of

(07:46):
powerful men. Without these women he noted there would not be the critical national reckoning
underway. Now Schneiderman is facing a reckoning of his own. As his prominence as a voice against
sexual misconduct has risen so too has the distress of four women with whom he has had romantic
relationships or encounters. They accuse Schneiderman of having subjected them to

(08:09):
non-consensual physical violence. All have been reluctant to speak out fearing reprisal but two
of the women Michelle Manning-Barsh and Tanya Silveritnam have talked to the New Yorker on the
record because they feel that doing so could protect other women. So Tanya Silveritnam was born
in 1972 in Colombo Sri Lanka and was raised in Long Beach California. She received a BA in East

(08:34):
Asian languages and civilizations and her MA in regional studies from Harvard. She's a writer
artist, Emmy nominated and multi-webby winning producer with more than 25 years of experience
in the arts and social justice. She grew up in an abusive household. One of her earliest memories
is crying at the top of her lungs watching her father towering over her mother with his hands

(08:56):
raised. She was three years old. He kicked her mother they are cursing at each other. The fights
usually happen at night when she says their alter egos will come out. She was witness to many of
these encounters. As she got older she was able to restrain her father. She knew he loved her
but he seemed so broken. She was bullied in school due to her skin color and dark lips.

(09:17):
She was a shy child. She had a lot of secrets she was keeping about her home life.
Eric Schneiderman was born in 1954 in New York City. He became a lawyer and politician who became
the 65th Attorney General of New York in 2011. He had a painful childhood when his parents divorced
and had such animosity toward each other that they even insisted on both calling him different names,

(09:40):
one by his first name and the other by his middle name. Tanya and Eric met in July 2016 at the
Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia. Producing election related videos was Tanya's
first step into politics. She wanted to get involved because she recognized the danger that the
Republican candidate Donald Trump holds to the United States. Prior to 2016 she had been more

(10:02):
likely to be in an art opening, book signing or theater show. While she sat on a stool taking
notes she could sense someone watching her. She smiled at him. He walked over saying he was
surprised she was taking notes. He asked if she knew who he was. She did not. He was surprised
at this. He introduced himself and said he was the Attorney General of New York. After he rejoined

(10:23):
his group she fell curious. He was older than the men she was usually interested in but she found
him handsome and smart. She wanted to see him again. The next night back at the convention she could
see Eric on the John Motron where he stood with the New York delegation. She realized what a big
deal he was. During the proceedings they emailed back and forth. He said he would call her the
next day. When he did call she was impressed that he had done what he said he would. They made plans

(10:48):
to meet for launch the next day. Tanya hadn't been in a relationship since her marriage ended
two years before. Eric came downtown so it would be convenient for her and told his security detail
not to accompany them. He seemed nervous. After they sat down he said abruptly I haven't vetted you
yet. It seemed a strange thing to say off the bat she thought. They stayed in contact through email

(11:11):
getting to know each other. He would send her articles about himself. She was bewildered that he
seemed interested in her. She didn't feel like she looked like a politician type. She looked
unconventional, rarely got her hair done and wore what she wanted even at work. She wasn't the type
to be seen in monochromatic a-line dresses and pumps. He sent her a brief about Exxon the

(11:32):
Oil and Gas Corporation with which he was engaged in a legal battle. He was a hero of the climate
change movement. Two days later he sent her another article about himself and another battle. This one
was Trump. Although she could have been put off by his boasting she saw it as a sign that he was
trying to impress her and she felt flattered. For the next few days he rang her every single night

(11:54):
and they spoke for an hour or more. Then he asked her out for dinner. At the restaurant she was
immediately escorted to a prime booth set apart from the tables in the middle of the space.
During dinner he joked about her being a spy from Exxon and said the company had done a very good
job. Soon though his expression grew dark and he said you know I could have your phone tapped.

(12:15):
He also said he could have her followed. Was he trying to impress her or scare her she wondered
but she let it go. Otherwise he was sweet and attentive and curious about her life.
The following week he invited her to join him in a ma- a ma- a magin set. My pronunciations are
probably off with that one. Uh where a law school buddy had a home. At the house they had separate

(12:39):
but adjacent rooms. That night after dinner they had sex for the first time. Then he wanted to look
at the moonlight so they went to the balcony where he brought out a portable speaker and they danced.
He held her gently and looked into her eyes. The next day he took her to two fundraisers for
Hilary Clinton in private homes. Everyone she met on Hilary's team seemed to know who she was. She

(12:59):
took it as a normal protocol that they had been briefed on her background specifically that she
was volunteering as a producer of videos in support of the campaign. If Hilary won Eric would be primed
to play a central role in enacting her policies in New York. Later as she addressed the crowd she
named him and complimented the work he was doing. At the second fundraiser Harvey Weinstein was one

(13:21):
of the first people to approach Eric. He wanted to help him raise money saying Eric was the only
guy doing anything. Tony didn't know what to make of Weinstein. She had friends who had worked for
him and had heard how he would make his assistants get drugs and prostitutes for him when he was at
film festivals. A few days later Eric asked if she'd come home with him and spend the weekend at
his place in the city. He seemed genuinely interested in her and attracted to her. She was

(13:45):
swooning. They went to his building on the Upper West Side. It was large with two bedrooms, three
bathrooms and a dining room. In the living room was a painting of an old woman, merkily rendered
which spooked her but she didn't ask its significance. He had a photo of him and Ram Dass, the spiritual
leader on his dresser. He said it had been taken by an ex-girlfriend. She was one of several women

(14:06):
he described as crazy shark women who he believed dated him because of his powerful position.
His ex-wife who served as his advisor was described by him as a stone cold killer. He said he had
never met anyone like Tanya. He made her feel different and separate from the women who came
before her. Now if you've listened to any of my other episodes you know this is a major

(14:28):
red flaggy behaviour. The love bombing, the trying to impress her, the speaking ill of
the exes in his life. All very very very common traits at the beginning of these abusive relationships.
Eric looked sympathetically at her scars from her cancer surgeries and told her he admired

(14:52):
her ability to overcome adversity. You're a good turn up he said. His affectionate nickname for her
based on the title of her blog Tanya Turns Up. I think that's an amazing amazing blog title.
Her scars had long been an insecurity for her. In the fall of 2012 only a few months after surgery
her husband told her he wanted to separate. She had also suffered three miscarriages and an attempt

(15:14):
at fertility treatment which had to be stopped after they discovered the tumors. A year after
her husband left her a woman who had worked with them both said he had actually been in a relationship
with his assistant director. Many of her friends had warned Tanya about this woman. They said she
was trying to take her place but at the time she dismissed her concerns. She didn't think her husband
was a bad person but that he had done a bad thing. But it was liberating to know the truth. She chose

(15:39):
to not be bitter. It was the beginning of the next phase of her life. Now I'm really like in awe of
this woman here because so she's gone through three miscarriages. A fertility treatment that had to
be stopped because they found cancer tumors. She has scars from several operations due to cancer

(16:01):
and then right after she has surgery her husband leaves her and then she finds out a year later
that he was having an affair the whole time. I mean the fact that she says she chooses not to
be bitter I think that that's so inspirational. Like it's very hard to not be bitter with everything
that's happened to you but she's amazing. By the time she and Eric met she felt she was ready to be

(16:27):
with someone again. Their values seemed to align. He was worshiped by those around him. The week
after spending their first weekend together at his place she went to Connecticut for work. While she
was away Eric called her often. Her friend said he's the attorney general of New York. He's got this
much time to call you. One night as they walked home from the theater she said he's called you

(16:48):
three times since we left the theater. If my husband called me that many times I'd hang up on him.
I see aspects that he's trying to control you. Tanya didn't grasp the inside of her words.
She didn't see his behaviors threatening. She felt he just missed her. Looking back Tanya says she
can see how she got sucked in. Eric's outward facing spirituality was a mask for the torment

(17:10):
beneath his surface. His outward facing feminism a mask for his misogyny. He perpetuated the
narrative of himself as an agent of change and transformation. Many people she trusted depicted
Eric as a hero and he positioned himself as standing up for many causes she believed in
and she bought it. In between college and law school he'd worked at an abortion clinic. He had

(17:32):
given women rides to and from the airport to comfort them. He'd been a deputy sheriff in the
Berkshires and befriended prisoners there. He showed her a letter and inmate had written him to thank
him for his kindness. He introduced her to his many allies in the Latinx community. He always
seemed proud to show her off. She would often go from feeling that she wasn't the typical politician's

(17:53):
girlfriend to feeling that her being brown was an asset to his ambitions. He also made an effort
to support her in her world but she also realized her world provided him a personal connection to
the campaign. It was something she could add to his profile. Many of her friends thought he was a
catch. They communicated well and there was tenderness and camaraderie between them. But other

(18:14):
patterns were emerging. He often asked her to make connections for him. She didn't think much of these
requests at the time but he seemed to only be interested in her friends if they could do something
for him. He seemed to only want to talk about himself. He sometimes referred to her friends as
ditzes or clueless but they were very intelligent women and again this is kind of starting that whole

(18:34):
isolation process. Politicians have to be charismatic and abusers are often charismatic too.
Politicians and abusers can also be extremely narcissistic. At first Eric was so aspiring
and supportive that she didn't pick up on his narcissism even when he would send her article
after article about himself. Rather she was feeling an adrenaline rush from the romance of her new

(18:59):
relationship and again all of this stuff is very very typical. On election day in November 2016
Tanya and Eric were full of confidence about the outcome. We would have our first female president
she thought. Tanya got dressed up and wore heels and paid to have her hair done. She
seldom wore heels but Eric preferred her to wear them to events. She rarely had her hair done but

(19:22):
Eric said her natural hair was too wild. He made her feel insecure about it. Maybe it was too ethnic
for him. They went to two parties by the time they got to the second one the tide was turning for
the worst. The day went from excitement to devastation. The next morning a grey pile seemed to hang
over the streets. Now just to go off topic for a minute I know exactly what she's talking about

(19:47):
when she says this. I remember that night first of all when uh Trump got elected. It was a shock but
I didn't really process it. It was like late at night or whatever and then I remember the next day
got up and went to work and it was like the day before my birthday and I was going out that
night to celebrate with two of my friends so I was working all day and I remember like the city was

(20:11):
literally grey. First of all it was a really cloudy day. Everybody that came into the store I was
working at was just miserable. It was just like nobody was talking. It was like silent. Like the
city actually felt silent. It was this strange, just strange, just strange feeling. There was
really just a dark cloud hanging over us and I remember going out that night and talking about

(20:37):
it with my friends and we were just like you know we'd be talking about something and then next thing
we'd just stop and go like I just can't believe it. It was just a crazy crazy crazy time. Like I
will never forget it. So here was a man who was going to run the country who had done so many
awful things. Tiny even knew people with disturbing stories about him such as a woman who had been

(21:00):
forbidden to touch his hair or use his bathroom and to avoid being pictured with him as she was a
woman of colour. Another had lived in a building that Trump had bought. In an attempt to get the
tenants to leave he had his team cut off the heat and hot water and let garbage pile up to attract
rodents. Tales of his awful antics were well known in New York circles. Eric went with her to Sri

(21:22):
Lanka for Christmas. This really impressed her relatives as he was such an important person.
It was the most relaxed Tanya had ever seen him. He talked about how everything smelled and looked
different there. On Christmas day he helped her grandmother up the stairs and sat and talked with
her but his need to isolate her from her family was starting to increase. At her grandmother's house
one day with all of her family present he said he couldn't take much more of this. She took it to

(21:45):
mean he didn't want to be around her family anymore. She said he could do his own thing. The next day
he stayed at their hotel while she went to family gatherings. Before they left Sri Lanka her aunt
organised an elaborate dinner for them. She even made sure to have enough fish and vegetables as Eric
didn't eat meat. There was meat there for the rest of the family. Tanya wasn't vegetarian but Eric

(22:06):
would not allow her to eat meat in his presence. He saw her looking at a chicken dish and looked at
her disapprovingly. After they returned to the US Tanya felt another series of dark turns begin.
At this point she was basically living with him. They talked about staying at her place sometimes
but he said it would take too much coordination because of his need for security. Her building had

(22:27):
24 hour guards and she said he could have his own security outside but it didn't make a difference so
they never stayed at hers. She missed her life downtown but Eric didn't want her out of his sight.
Once she was at a film event in Tribeca it was pouring rain and she was close to her place.
She left him a message saying she was going to stay there. He phoned her back shouting
I can't trust you. Her friend who was with her looked alarmed. She could see how angry he sounded.

(22:51):
Tanya felt embarrassed but she let the moment pass.
Another time she was receiving a reward for women of color and as the event ended she got a call
from Eric saying he had landed unexpectedly early and needed dinner. He didn't ask her how the event
was and didn't congratulate her. He wanted her to leave right away and pick up dinner for him.
Later her friend who had been with her admitted that she could hear his tone through the phone and

(23:14):
thought how dare he. She's not his slave I don't care who he is. Meanwhile Tanya was ignoring the
signs and felt that she was the one making mistakes. One day she went to see a Broadway show with her
friends. Her friend told her she seemed subdued in the relationship. Later when she finally
confided in her she said she wished she had asked her more questions and read between the lines.

(23:37):
Eric and Tanya had dinner one night with a friend of hers from college and her husband.
Later that friend told her she noticed Eric's possessiveness, how much he drank, his narcissism
and that it seemed his love for her acted as a validation for him. When another friend met him
she noticed how willing he was to objectify her into his life. The focus was always on him. He
didn't talk about Tanya at all and seemed interested in her life only as it served him.

(24:02):
After the election his drinking started to become darker. As he became more comfortable with her
his addiction started to spill out. She would wake up to find he had eaten her food because he was
hungry in the middle of the night after taking Ambian and LaRazapam along with alcohol. Sometimes
she would wake up to find him staggering around the apartment and would have to guide him back to bed.
When he was sober she would describe his behaviour to him during the night. He would show regret and

(24:27):
distress. She felt sorry for him because his pain was so deep that he was trying to annihilate himself
but she started to realise he was trying to annihilate her too. He would manipulate her by
giving her things and then taking them away. He offered a guest room in his apartment to use
as her own but he wouldn't let her put a desk in there so she could have a study. She would
instead work on the living room couch or the dining table until he would get annoyed that she was

(24:50):
working there. Eventually he said she could use his office which he never used himself but the
wi-fi didn't work there because it was too far from the router. He kept confining her to narrower
spaces and accusing her of taking up too much space. He wouldn't let her have a second closet
in the guest room so she had to squeeze her clothes into a small space until he eventually
had her hang some clothes in his own closet. One day she was hand washing clothes in the

(25:14):
guest bathroom and hanging them to dry and he said with annoyance that it looked like Chinatown in
here. She felt as though she couldn't move without committing an offence. He was constantly asking
her to listen to him practice his speeches and to work with his staff inviting people to his
fundraisers. He never showed gratitude and sometimes even belittled how much she helped him
but still there were times when he was positive. He talked about them moving into a bigger apartment

(25:39):
so she could have her own study. He talked about them having kids. This made her laugh.
Had he any idea that her first book was about her infertility?
In January 2017, two nights before the inauguration, she stayed at her own place as she was due to
speak in an event downtown the next day. She got a call from Eric in the morning. He was in the ER
as he had drunk too much and fallen in the bathroom. When he woke up he was lying in a pool of blood.

(26:04):
She called the event organizer and told her she had to cancel her talk. He had a black eye and
stitches around his eyebrow. He was scheduled to do press conference that day. He asked her to
take his picture and send it to his communications person. He also talked with his ex-wife with
whom he still regularly consulted. He said Tanya was to tell anyone who asked that he had fallen
while jogging. He had already made her feel trapped at home and now he was gradually isolating her

(26:31):
from the outside world. She was also being frequently exposed to encounters that shouldn't
have happened in our presence. She felt he was being careless in having more conversations
she shouldn't have heard. He would even sometimes say that if they broke up he would have to kill her.
One night while he was showing her old photos and letters including from his time as sheriff,
he suddenly paused and asked, am I going to have to kill you if we break up? She said nothing.

(26:56):
Usually these moments passed quickly. Tanya would sometimes think to herself if only all
these people who worshipped him knew what a mess he was at home. If they only knew what he did to her.
She began to see how every politician and member of his or her inner circle was in collusion with
one another. No one was who they pretended to be. They all had something on one another and protected

(27:17):
each other. They only cared about power and who got to wield us. They didn't care about the people.
She was caught up in a confusing labyrinth and she couldn't talk to anyone about us.
After when Eric looked at Tanya's chest he would tell her to see his plastic surgeon and get rid
of her scars. He suggested she get a boob job and get into shape. For men with political ambitions,

(27:37):
the way their partner looks impacts their prospects. In her situation Eric's controlling of her
appearance was a thread in a larger web of manipulation. He started taking her to a synagogue
in his neighbourhood. She considered herself agnostic but didn't mind going with him.
One night he asked her if she would consider converting. He said he would take the classes
with her. He always seemed uncomfortable in Tanya's world. On her birthday she was giving a talk about

(28:03):
women's activism. Many of her friends attended and Eric did too which he thought was wonderful as he
was very busy. Through the end of the evening her friends brought a cake out for her. Soon afterward
Eric insisted they leave immediately. Her friends couldn't believe he was making her leave her own
birthday celebration. One later told her his behaviour was jarring. His forcing her to leave

(28:24):
her own events happened on numerous occasions. Even at a fundraiser she'd organised for him.
A friend stood by her side waiting to meet him but he suddenly said they had to leave.
He gave her an agitated look and hurried her toward the door. Her friend tried to walk with them to
at least have a few words with him. She wanted to know the man who had her friend's heart.
He couldn't have cared less. He looked at her blankly, opened the car door and motioned for her to get in.

(28:48):
Afterward the friend told another friend, I don't like him. Tanya can't be herself around him.
He didn't like her talking on the phone even though he was often on the phone himself. If he heard
her on the phone, even the other room with the door closed, he would open the door, glare at her
and shake his head. During one call with her mother she said, you get very quiet when he's around.

(29:10):
My friends notice when I try to talk to you. And there was also his preventing her from eating
certain foods. During 2017's fashion week they went to a dinner party in Soho. One waiter came by
with a chicken dish that Tanya really wanted to eat but because Eric was there she didn't.
He glared at her and said, I saw the way you were looking at that. Another time they were having

(29:31):
dinner at a seafood restaurant. Complimentary chocolate pudding was served at the end, one of her
favourite desserts. Eric wasn't eating his so she asked if she could have his also as the cup was
quite small. He looked at her as though she was a naughty child and said, bad turnip. She began
to cherish nights with friends where she would order both meat and dessert even if she wasn't in
the mood for them. When Eric first slapped Tanya in the face while they were making love it happened

(29:57):
in the blink of an eye. He seemed to be testing her. She tried to make sense of it. At that moment
she became aware that he could inflict great harm on her. Over time the slap got harder and began
to be accompanied by demands. He would slap her until she agreed to find him a young girl for a
three way. She told him what he wanted to hear even though she knew it was never going to happen.

(30:17):
He would slap her until she agreed to call him master or daddy. He recounted his fantasies of
finding her somewhere far away to be his slave, his brown girl. Publicly he was a friend and
ally to communities of colour but in the bedroom he wanted to be master and slap around his slave.
He would hurl spit in her mouth and mash his lips against her so that it was hard for her to breathe.

(30:41):
A few times he put his hands around her throat and tried to choke her. That old classic. She would
tell him to stop but he didn't respond. He looked at her as if he was possessed and then the moment
quickly passed. She was scared but she felt as if she wanted to keep him she would have to let him
dominate her. By day he was the crusading attorney general and he had to be sober. As soon as he got

(31:02):
home he would start swinging from a ball. He made her feel as if she had to be his caretaker in case
he drank too much. He would take Ambian and L'Arazepam at the same time. Sometimes she woke up to
the sound of him watching movies beside her in bed with the volume up loud. She would say she
needed to rest and suggested sleeping in the guest room which made him upset. Other times she would

(31:22):
be woken up with his fingers inside her or him squeezing parts of her body. He seemed to be moving
in his sleep and would say things like I love you or my bad bad girl daddy's gonna rape you. On a
few occasions after he passed out she would go to the guest room and sit down with tears rolling
down her cheeks. He started asking her to hide the bottles of alcohol from him but in the morning

(31:44):
they would be empty. He would say smugly you didn't do your job. He would struggle to wake up in the
mornings and would brush her away with a hand gesture she tried to be near him. He would stagger
around the apartment in a daze. She longed for signs of affection and intimacy. When they had
those moments she was happy with him lying on the couch in an embrace as he played her his favourite

(32:04):
songs. She tolerated the times he had sex where he slapped her and spat at her calling her his
property and his brown slave thinking she could put up with that much. As long as it wasn't happening
the majority of the time maybe once a week she was able to compartmentalise it. It was how she
cope with the situation but she began to realise she was in an endless cycle of abuse. Again that's

(32:25):
a very common thing to happen where you kind of just you know because the abuse isn't happening
24-7 and that's one thing that people really don't realise so when it's not happening every day
you really cling on to the times where it's not happening and you always kind of convince yourself
that that was the last time but it never is. He made her feel that he needed her and she felt

(32:49):
empathy for his difficult childhood. His parents had neglected him. She could feel the loneliness
that he carried with him. She wanted to love him completely. He would say they were a good team.
They could accomplish so much together. They could help change the world but he was Jekyll and Hyde
and she never knew which would be dominant. When things were bad she dissociated. She thought the
situation would calm down and that he would change. A few times he even acknowledged that he needed

(33:13):
help but he was worried that the world would find out. She had him speak on the phone with her
therapist. After 15 minutes he emerged and said he was fine. In February a month after his hospital
visit she admitted to a friend that things weren't going well. She told her Eric was depressed and
she was trying to help him. People had even tried to warn her about Eric. When she first started

(33:35):
seeing him a friend and mentor tried to tell her I want you to be careful I've heard but the waiter
cut them off and she didn't finish the sentence. A year later she reached out to this friend and
asked if she remembered what she wanted to tell her. Without hesitation her friend said yes. I
heard he has a reputation for using and abusing women and then discarding them. Another friend

(33:56):
told her she'd been worried when Tanya confided in her early on about his drinking. She was shop
but not surprised when Tanya later told her about his abuse during sex. She always wondered if he
had done the same to his previous garfans and sexual partners but she thought the abuse was
specific to her. He told her he'd never been with anyone like her. He praised her activism and her
work but he demeaned and humiliated her as a person. On many occasions she told him that she

(34:21):
felt he was trying to ruin her self-esteem. He said he was depressed. It took Tanya a while to
make the connection between her own mother's experience with domestic violence and her own.
Eric didn't hit her outside of the bedroom. She had entered into the relationship willingly. She
even felt sorry for him. Unlike some of the abusers unmasked by the Me Too movement Eric
was a serial monogamous. He didn't need a different woman to abuse every day. He had her for almost a year.

(34:47):
Once during the day and out of nowhere he said he was getting bored and he didn't have anything
like a three-way to look forward to. He mentioned friends of hers he found cute and suggested them
as candidates. So why was she staying with him? Tanya now feels there is no real explanation but
rather a confluence of layers. As a child who had witnessed abuse she could have been more likely
to become a victim herself. As a woman who had been abandoned by her previous partner she could

(35:12):
have been psychologically more vulnerable. She didn't want to be alone and didn't want to be
abandoned again. As an organizer who wanted to make the world a better place she was attracted to
Eric Stardom as a progressive advocate. She heard the applause when he spoke and got swept up in it.
Applaud can be blinding. For Thanksgiving 2016 Eric wanted to hold a jubu. This is a ju who practices

(35:39):
Buddhism. It's the first time I ever heard this term was when I was researching this episode. I
found it really interesting. So this is a celebration that he wanted to have at home with a small
group of his friends. So he was even having the event catered but he also wanted Tanya to make
a curry. She spent hours buying the ingredients and preparing the dish but before everyone arrived

(36:02):
he tasted it and said it wasn't good. He didn't want to serve it. She was incredibly hurt. It was
thrown away. She felt she had failed him and wondered if that had been his intention. Now I
don't know if any of you have made any type of curry dishes before any type of Indian dishes.
I am obsessed with Indian food. It's probably my favorite type of food. It is first of all it's

(36:26):
really hard to make. Really hard to get it right because there's so many spices and then because
there's so many different types of spices and all that stuff there's so many ingredients it's so
expensive to make it to. So I can only imagine how upsetting and frustrating that must have been for
her. The pattern of abuse was becoming clearer. Nonetheless she was having a harder time reconciling

(36:48):
her experience of him with the outside world's perception of him. He was not the man she thought
he was. He was a hypocrite but she was still mostly keeping that impression to herself. She would
speak to a few trusted friends about his drinking and controlling behavior but she was frightened to
tell anyone about his sexual abuse. She felt embarrassed and ashamed and also protective of him.
She wouldn't be able to take it back and what if he did change for the better? Couldn't he change if

(37:13):
he wanted to? Her heart and mind weren't working with clarity. All of this sounds so familiar to me.
I mean I'm lucky that I never had any sexual abuse in my relationship but I can only imagine how
like ashamed you would be. I mean a lot of people don't talk about their sex life with their friends

(37:36):
and then imagine if something like this is happening. It's not really an easy topic to bring up
and you know you do feel embarrassed and you do feel ashamed of behavior and you do feel protective
of them and like you know if you put it out there and then suddenly they never do it again
you can't take that back and your friends are never going to forget that so they're
always going to have that in their mind. Obviously we know that the behavior doesn't change but at

(37:59):
the time she doesn't know this because she's right in the middle of it. After she shared her story
so many friends told her about their own experiences. One friend talked about a verbally and financially
abusive relationship. He hadn't slapped her once and he had slapped her once as she broke up with him.
She wondered why she hadn't left earlier. Another friend described a relationship she had rekindled

(38:22):
with a longtime lover. She had noticed that one day he was acting strange and distant but hadn't
realized he was using a variety of drugs. When she was half asleep he stormed through the bedroom
door and forced himself on her without speaking or consent. She didn't even seem to exist as a
person in that moment. He was hurting her. Was he raping her? She remembers thinking. He didn't
see her as a human being. They broke up that week. That's another thing too like you know I think

(38:47):
that's what confuses people so much is like if someone that you're dating your husband partner
whatever it is starts like to have sex with you or is forcing you to have sex or like you wake up
and they're already like touching you or having sex with you it's hard to kind of think like is this
rape like because well I am their partner they expect sex for me and people find that so confusing

(39:13):
and I also think people who have never had this happen to them find that so confusing too. I think
we all you know I think most people probably think of like you know rape being oh you know you're
you're walking alone at night and someone drags you into an alleyway or the bushes or something
but the majority of time the statistics are all there is that it is somebody that you know

(39:39):
and that's just something that we really should acknowledge and keep in the in the front of our
minds. Tanja saw more clearly how capable independent women became ensnared even fierce women get
abused this is so important and something that I always talk about um my line that I always use
and you've probably heard me say before is that doesn't matter how successful how strong how

(40:04):
attractive how friendly how outgoing how independent you are you are just as likely to get abused as
anybody else is and I think when you stop and think that like you know because in your own head
you're thinking like I would never let myself be abused like I wouldn't let that happen but then

(40:28):
when you see that oh this person was abused and she's really powerful and she's really cool and
she's really independent then maybe I am too and I think that's so why it's so important for people
to speak out if they feel like they can especially people in positions of power like a celebrity I
always find when celebrities speak out I find it's so important and like almost like another

(40:49):
way off of me like I feel like see like this really successful person um with a great job and loads of
money was still abused um and it's you know one of those reasons why I another use reason why I
spoke about my story like one thing that people in my personal life that know me well um always say
to me when they find out what happened to me like I can't believe that you would have been abused

(41:14):
like they're really sharp because people tend to think of me as being really strong person and
independent um and like someone that doesn't take any bullshit and I don't like all of those things
are true but um being abused it's a very very very different bog and there's so many levels to
being abused and I think that's the kind of thing that people don't understand the most about it they

(41:37):
just see this like little meek quiet housewife um and you know it's really important to kind of get
that image out of our heads. Eric was taking out his need for power and his anxiety on her it happened
at night in the dark when she was naked when it was more difficult to make an assertive decision

(41:57):
it happened when they were the most intimate and she was the most vulnerable sometimes even half
asleep when she told him she was in pain or asked him to stop he ignored and belittled her it felt
like a bad dream in the morning she would wake up and another day would begin where she would see
his good side and would be hopeful they also didn't have sex every day he told her he was old the less

(42:19):
she had sex with him the more she could avoid his abuse in the bedroom often she would go to bed
early deliberately as time went by the slaps got harder and the emotional and verbal abuse more
frequent she began to feel she was in hell but he was also charming and charismatic often supportive
she was constantly being pushed away from him and pulled toward him she didn't realize he was

(42:42):
breaking her down she was more afraid to leave him than to stay with him she always had it in the
back of her mind that he could inflict great harm on her he'd even threatened to have her killed
in several occasions if they broke up would he really snap if they did she wanted him to get
help and for them to work it out she thought the abuse could end she thought he could change

(43:03):
one night in spring 2017 a friend told her another friend to call him and said she heard he had a
reputation for being rough with women she said nothing but filed it away in her mind later she
found out she was the one in a long line of women who had experienced abuse by Eric and he seemed to
customize the abuse with each woman Tanya and Eric didn't have a volatile and argumentative

(43:26):
relationship but with other women he had he had fought with them and hit them outside the bedroom
but the one constant was his need to hit and dehumanize women he conditioned her to accept
his treatment she kept trying to modulate herself to be more conscientious about her appearance and
her habits the abuse was compounded by his addictions it fueled his violence he was creating

(43:48):
his own undoing he was laying the groundwork for the unearthing of his abuse by being so visible
as an advocate for women it was mind-boggling how he could pass laws to help women while
harming real women in his own life it was as if he were declaring i can't be guilty of any of
these private crimes because of what i do publicly he often talked about his mother having been

(44:10):
crazy and controlling and he took out his pent up hatred for her on Tanya and other garfans
but being victimized as a child doesn't give anyone the right to abuse women this is so important
by spring 2017 Tanya was making more and more plans to go away when she wasn't around Eric
and in his environment there was more mental space for her intuition about him to kick in

(44:31):
when she went to her 25 year college reunion she felt freer and happier than she had in a long time
when she returned Eric continued to complain about how she took up space she began to stay at
her own apartment downtown on some nights this made her realize how sleep deprived she was and how
cut off from her friends she had been in july she went to a wedding in Sri Lanka and then to

(44:53):
Portland to work on a show when she spoke to Eric at this time he was always kind and calm
he said he was working on himself she was hopeful that when she returned things would be different
when she got back he said he wanted space she was hurt a few weeks later he came back from a
meditation retreat and they went for dinner he still said he wanted space to work on himself

(45:14):
she said she was going to stay at her place after dinner and he was upset she didn't want to come
home with him he acted like a little boy who wasn't getting his way even though she was giving him the
space he had asked for her she felt he was pushing her away and pulling her back constantly
she wasn't ready to break up but could feel herself beginning to detach herself
but she still kept hoping he was the man he claimed to be a close friend called to check in

(45:37):
she told her things were strange with Eric and she was figuring out what to do
her friends had her asking questions as she began telling her details of his hitting her during sex
she asked if she would speak with her friend Jennifer Friedman who was a domestic violence
expert and a lawyer she agreed when she described her experiences to Jennifer she felt disgusted at
the words coming out of her mouth the awareness that she had to put up with his treatment that she

(46:01):
had put up with this treatment but it took confiding in her to realize Eric was never going to change
she finally told her therapist about the abuse he told her she had to get out
after she connected with Jennifer she had more of the tools she needed to extricate herself from
her relationship with Eric as gently as possible without setting him off and with her help she
made a plan over dinner one night with her longtime friend Danzie she told her of the things that had

(46:27):
been happening Eric was at a meditation retreat and Danzie offered to go with Tanya to his place to
get all of her belongings but she told her she wanted a wait her things weren't important the
next day she was in LA when she got a call from Eric she hadn't spoken to him since the week before
and she tensed up wondering what he wanted she didn't answer he called twice more over the next 24

(46:47):
hours getting increasingly agitated in his messages that he couldn't reach her he thought
they were supposed to have dinner that week and wanted to confirm she sent a short email saying
she was traveling and couldn't meet him she was still speaking with Jennifer who reminded her
that her safety not his career was paramount she said if she was alone with him she didn't know what
he was capable of she told her not to poke the bear they talked about getting her an order of

(47:12):
protection but his prominent position made it impossible to do so outside of the spotlight
she encouraged her to instead fade slowly out of his life she told her to say she needed to think
about it if he asked to meet her she said to not give anything away and not to be impulsive
they came up with scripts for different scenarios this is very very clever and very good advice

(47:34):
when the time came for him to call she calmed her nerves she had a plan
he said it seemed like she'd been avoiding him she said she just needed time he said maybe they
should go their separate ways and she said she thought that would be for the best seeming to
give him control of the situation he was surprised at her response four days later the Weinstein
story by Megan Tuey and Jodie Cantor broke in the New York Times the Me Too reckoning had begun

(47:59):
when the New Yorker published Ronan Farrell's story about Weinstein Eric emailed her
when you can I think we should talk I want to continue to support your good work
she didn't think the timing was a coincidence that week he wrote to her twice more firstly to
tell her he would be away for the weekend if she wanted to get her things and then to ask if he
should come with her to the glamour awards she said thank you but she wouldn't get around to it this

(48:24):
weekend she didn't think it would be the best idea for him to come to the gala Jennifer spoke to
her about the security in her building and about an order of protection again they talked about the
next step of retrieving her belongings she wondered if he would fly off the handle if he came back
to an empty apartment she wrote to him asking if she could come by that Friday he said it was fine
her friend Jen and her quickly grabbed her things this reminds me so much of the the night that I

(48:52):
just went with my friend it was like 1am and just while my exes at work and just like packed up all
of my shit so quickly we were it was actually like we had such a laugh because we were so frantic
just like throwing things into like anywhere we could fit them and just piling them up by the

(49:14):
door to pick them up the next day like it was just it was just wild when I think about it now it's
just freaking hilarious not funny but funny the next morning her friend Jen said a childhood friend
of her husband's was an ex of Eric's she had a similar story and wanted to get in touch with Tanya
to let her know she wasn't alone and she wasn't crazy Tanya felt panic that Eric was now free to

(49:35):
do this to other women she felt a moral obligation to prevent that from happening another friend
told her she had a friend who had worked for Eric and had always felt creeped out by him
she was realizing she was part of a pattern the silence of the women before her had meant that
she had suffered too silence didn't feel like an option she could live with she wrote a letter to
Eric knowing she would never send us I am recovering from a year of abuse by you I don't expect you

(50:03):
to acknowledge what you did I don't even expect you to be aware of what you did you were high on
alcohol and ambiance most of the time but a guy who hits me until I agreed to do something I will
never do like find a young woman to have a three-way or call him master or daddy that's a sick guy
you are no better than Harvey Weinstein I'm not scared of you even though you said early on in our

(50:25):
relationship that you have to kill me if we broke up that you could have my phone tapped and have
me followed I've already faced death and it doesn't scare me I can imagine that you would rather
write me off as a crazy person well I'm not I have a lot of people who care about me privately
and who knew about your controlling demeaning treatment I had never been in an abusive relationship

(50:45):
before and I had never been with an alcoholic now I know it's not okay how you treated me
you need help I hope you get it tani's friend Jennifer Garnerman advised her to speak to a
lawyer and recommended Roberta Robbie Kaplan she could feel her disgust as she explained her
experiences with Eric when they first spoke she told her she didn't know what she was going to do

(51:06):
but she would keep her posted Jennifer Friedman told her there must be others out there they
talked about possibly filing a police report she said she wanted to keep a low profile she knew
she came forward Eric would come after her publicly she was also worried about widening the net of
people who knew as she didn't want a journalist finding out they decided that for the moment
she should just document everything and be careful to who she spoke to she had many people with many

(51:30):
connections at this time who offered to help her in various ways she explored so many legal pathways
for stopping his behavior but they all seemed connected to him in some way she's going to
Portland for a few weeks and decided to reflect on her decision then while she was in Portland
several segments of stories came out about how great Eric was how he was the only one he was able
to keep trump and check and had been a thorn in the side for years Tanya thought this is what I'm up

(51:55):
against when she returned to New York she had made a decision she's going to tell her story to David
Remnick from the New Yorker she felt her story would be safe with him because of the courageous
me too reporting they set up a time to speak he spoke with a few friends of hers that the New
Yorker beforehand to get their opinion of her when they finally met he made a clear their
conversation with the confidential and off the record she'd already sent him a first person

(52:18):
account and he asked her what she wanted to do he said a first person story would be tough as it was
he said she said she had no physical evidence or police reports she wondered if she needed to have
gotten a black eye to be believed she gave him time to think about what to do soon after she
received an email from Eric saying he was trying to get backstage passes to the Grammys and would

(52:40):
she like to come as his plus one she had two thoughts that he wasn't seeing anyone therefore
he wasn't abusing someone else and that he wasn't on to her it dragged her back into a fearful state
she was shaking inside she said she didn't think it would be a good idea she was about to go to
a lay a new Eric's previous girlfriend Danzy lived there she contacted her and they agreed to meet

(53:03):
her story was similar to Tanya's he would hold on her legs and say she'd take ankles he would
stretch out the skin around her eyes and say she needed Botox he asked her to find women for three
ways he said she was depriving him of his sexual needs Tanya felt as if she were hearing her own
story Danzy was worried she was recording the conversation she was still fearful of the repercussions

(53:25):
she'd been approached by reporters about Eric's behavior and had been too scared to come forward
she had instead written out her account and put it in a safe deposit box in case anything happened
to her this is so clever she had given the key to two friends Tanya told her she was going to come
forward Danzy said she wouldn't join her but that she would say she believed her 100 percent

(53:47):
Tanya went to Sri Lanka and received another message from Eric he said he was sorry to
bother her but he needed to speak to her about a sensitive matter she said she was traveling it was
with her family he said it would be brief just three minutes for a phone call that he wouldn't
bother her if it wasn't important she started shaking and feeling rapid palpitations of her
heart it was all over the news that he was finding a lawsuit against the Weinstein company and blocking

(54:09):
its sale many leaders in the Me Too movement and Time's Up movements tagged him publicly
he was once again positioning himself as their hero when the New Yorker and the New York Times
shared the 2018 Pulitzer for public service to their Me Too coverage Eric tweeted without the
reporting of the New York Times and the New Yorker and the brave women and men who spoke up about the

(54:29):
sexual harassment they endured at the hands of powerful men there would not be the critical
national reckoning underway a well-deserved honor Tanya thought he's writing the story for me
when she returned to New York she spoke to David again he said he had decided to assign a reporter
to her story she was currently working on a big piece and would speak to Tanya after she turned

(54:50):
it in he told her not to tell anyone about this it was going to be the scariest thing she had ever
done she felt embarrassed and ashamed that her sex life would be exposed she valued her freedom
she wished she could come forward with her without without her name being exposed she
considered moving apartments in March she was told by David that the reporter would be Jane Meyer
she described her experience to her she said he was going to kill her or have someone kill her

(55:14):
Jane assured her he wouldn't that if they got three women to talk on the record then he was finished
Tanya felt the time had come to prepare those clothes to her she told her mother
after she finished she seemed weirdly relieved she said I thought you were going to tell me the
cancer had come back and that I wouldn't have been able to take she started talking about her

(55:34):
father he had told his brother that when he was dying he felt like he was suffering because
of what he had done to his wife she kept saying she hated him then saying she didn't but that she
was glad he was dead and gone she had 24 years of suffering she told Tanya that after seeing what
had happened to her she should have left Eric after the first time she said he would get what's
coming to him and that Tanya didn't have to be the one to do it she didn't want her to come forward

(55:57):
as she didn't want any publicity Tanya said she needed support she thanked her for listening
but a few hours later she called again she said you should never have stayed with him after the
first time he thought he was a big shot it's your mistake for not walking when I see him I was spit
on his face because he's the attorney general people kowtow to him he thought he's a big deal

(56:19):
we're a bigger deal Tanya recognized that her own experience was triggering for her mother
it made her sad but she did what she had to do Jane Meyer contacted connected with several other
exes of erics and their stories were strikingly similar to Tanya's she wanted to publish as soon
as possible Tanya said she needed time to get her life together she had to make plans for

(56:41):
security and escape back to New York she said she needed one week she worried about the impact on
her family career and reputation once she put the story out there she would never be able to take it
back she knew a few people would drift away and that would be okay she knew that when the history
of the me too movement was written she wouldn't be able to live with being the one who had been too
scared to protect other women a time magazine poll showed that 82 percent of respondents said women

(57:06):
are more likely to speak about harassment since the winestein allegations 85 percent said they
believed the women making the allegations she received more emails from Eric insisting they talk
and then becoming angry when she wouldn't he claimed he had to talk to her about winestein
he wanted to know if he she had donated money to the film she had been producing around the election

(57:27):
sorry if winestein had been donating money to her films she responded with a simple note when she
showed Jennifer the email she said that she didn't even have to push him that hard for him to show us
true colors he seemed totally clueless and lacked self-awareness a normal person would be concerned
and not lash out she was out in touch with Gavin DeBecca's expert security team who

(57:50):
counseled her on her safety and gave her recommendations uh so Gavin DeBecca if you
haven't heard of him he's an american author and a security specialist and i urge you to read his
book the gift of fear um i'm going to cover it sometime in a future episode but it is a must read
for anyone um in particular women it's an amazing book it was written in the 90s it's super old but

(58:15):
honestly majority of the information is still still still relevant today tania met with jane
and ronan farrow and she went through her story again she was struck by both of them for their calm
composure gentle listening and clear reasoning farrow thanked her and said she may want to turn
her phone off and the story came out afterwards she found out will cosby been convicted she said

(58:39):
that that would not have happened a year ago she knew her own story could drop any day she was
overwhelmed by the secret she was keeping she started to anticipate the fallout then due to
a tactless message to the new york times there was a leak to her reporter she started to reach out
to people to find out about tanya's story a few days later tanya spoke to jane who said she had

(59:02):
gotten an email from eric's pure guy saying he had heard she was asking questions about eric he
heard it was a me too story he asked her to let him know she responded that she would she would if
there was a story they had lost the advantage of surprise she became more scared david remnick
gave her a heads up that a fact checker would be contacting her and the story would be coming out soon

(59:24):
she may plan to leave the country on may 9th but he couldn't guarantee it wouldn't run until after
she left he thanked her for her patience and trust tanya went to hide out at her friend katharine's
until her flight on monday may 7th david told her they were about to contact eric's office for comments
this meant he would find out she was participating jane forwarded her all of the responses from his

(59:49):
office he was denying most of the allegations but also claims that some of the abuse had been consensual
david told her we're off to the races a little before 7 p.m on may 7th she got a text from david
saying the story was up so excuse me i've linked the original article in the bio of the episode but

(01:00:09):
here i'm just going to just i'm just going to just just going to just i'm going to read
some pieces from it that i felt were important if you don't want to read the full article but i
suggest you read it if you haven't already schneiderman is facing a reckoning of his own
as his prominence as a voice against sexual misconduct has risen so too has the distress of

(01:00:33):
four women with whom he has had romantic relationships or encounters they accuse schneiderman of having
subjected them to non-consensual physical violence all have been reluctant to speak out
furor repaisal but two of the women michelle manning barish and tanya savardham have talked to the
new yorker on the record because they feel that doing so could protect other women both say that

(01:00:54):
he threatened to kill them if they broke up with him schneiderman spoke spokesperson said that he
never made any of these threats a third former romantic partner of schneiderman's told manning
barish and savardham that he also repeatedly subjected her to consensual physical violence
but she told them that she's too frightened of him to come forward a fourth woman an attorney who

(01:01:15):
has held prominent positions in the new york legal community says that schneiderman made an advance
toward her when she rebuffed him he slapped her across the face with such force that left a mark
that lingered the next day she recalls screaming and surprised in pain and beginning to cry and
says that she felt frightened she's asked to remain unidentified but shared a photograph of the
injury with the new yorker on may 1st the new york based national institute for reproductive health

(01:01:41):
honored him as one of three champions of choice at its annual fundraising luncheon except in the
award schneiderman said if a woman cannot control her body she is not truly equal but as manning
barish sees it you cannot be a champion of women when you're hating them and choking them in bed
and saying to them you're a fucking whore she says of schneiderman's involvement in the wine scene

(01:02:01):
investigation how can you put a perpetrator in charge of the country's most important sexual
assault case but manning barish begins began to see signs of controlling and abusive behavior
soon after she started dating schneiderman he told her to remove a small tattoo from her wrist
it wasn't appropriate he said if she were to become the wife of a politician the process of having

(01:02:23):
it removed was painful and expensive in retrospect she says it was the first step in trying to control
her body taking a strong woman and tearing her to pieces is his jam she says about four weeks after
they became physically involved she says schneiderman grew violent one night they were in the bedroom of
his upper west side apartment still closed but getting ready for bed and likely beating each

(01:02:44):
other as she recalls it he called her a whore and she talked back they'd both been drinking and her
recollection of their conversation is blurry but what happened next remains vivid schneiderman she
says backed her up to the edge of his bed all of a sudden he just slapped me open-handed and with
great force across the face landing the blow directly onto my ear manning barish says it was

(01:03:07):
horrendous it just came out of nowhere my ear was ringing i lost my balance and fell backward
onto the bed i sprang up but at this point there was very little room between the bed and him
i got up to try to shove him back or take a swing and he pushed me back down he then used
his body weight to hold me down and he began to choke me the choking was very hard it was really

(01:03:27):
bad i kicked in every fiber i felt i was being beaten by a man she finally freed herself and
got back on her feet i was crying in shock she says she recalled shouting are you crazy to her
astonishment schneiderman accused her of scratching him at one point she can't remember if it was at
this moment or in a later conversation he told her you know hitting an officer of the law as a felony

(01:03:51):
manning barish said that her ear bothered her for months it often felt painful and clogged and she
kept hearing odd gurgling sounds once blood trickled out reaching her collarbone eventually
eventually manning barish sought medical help from dr gwen corvin and ear nose and throat specialist
manning barish says the schneiderman pressed her to consume huge amounts of alcohol

(01:04:14):
she recalls i would come over for dinner an already half empty bottle of red wine would be on the
counter he had had a head start very stressful day he would say sometimes if she didn't drink quickly
enough she says he would come to me like a baby who wouldn't eat its food and hold a glass to my
lips while holding my face and sweetly but forcefully like a parent say come on me me drink drink drink

(01:04:35):
and essentially force me at times actually spinning it down my chin and onto my chest
in the summer of 2016 the attorney general may have crossed the line again
he went to a party in the hamptons where he drank heavily and invited another guest a woman he'd
known for some time to join him at an after party and accomplished ivy league educated lawyer with

(01:04:55):
government experience he had worked closely with his office in the past and supported him politically
she says that she agreed to let a man in schneiderman security detail drive him to the next
destination but when they arrived at the house there was no party it was where schneiderman was
staying the security officer left the property the lawyer and schneiderman began making out but he
said things that repelled her he told the woman a divorced mother the professional women with big

(01:05:21):
jobs and children had so many decisions to make that when it came to sex they secretly wanted
men to take charge she recalls him saying yeah you act a certain way and look a certain way but I
know that at heart you are a dirty little slut you want to be my whore he became more sexually
aggressive but she was repulsed by his talk and pulled away from him she says that suddenly at

(01:05:44):
least in my mind's eye he drew back and there was a moment where I was like what's happening then
she recalls he slapped me across the face hard twice adding I was stunned when she told him
that she wanted to leave she recalls he started to freak out saying that he'd misjudged her
you'd really be surprised he claimed a lot of women like it they don't always think they like it

(01:06:04):
but then they do and they ask for more she again demanded to be taken home they got into his car
and it quickly became apparent how intoxicated he was as he drove weaving along back roads she was
terrified that he killed not just her but another driver she says the Schneiderman broke the law at
least once that night this is untrue Schneiderman's spokesperson said. Sylvariton by contrast feels

(01:06:28):
caught up in circumstances that have given her only one real choice to go public it's torturous
for me to do this she says I like my life of this article she says I wish my name didn't have to be
in it and notes of Schneiderman I know it's going to be my word against his because I don't have
photos of bruises and I don't have a police report Schneiderman's accusers she feels are in an
unusually difficult situation as she puts it what do you do if your abuser is the top law enforcement

(01:06:54):
official in the state tani was at a benefit dinner when the story broke her phone blew up for the
next two hours she heard that many new york politicians were calling for Eric to resign
most of them didn't express sympathy for the victims then Eric issued a statement
it's been my great honor and privilege to serve as attorney general for the people of the state of

(01:07:15):
New York in the last several hours serious allegations which I strongly contest have been
made against me while these allegations are unrelated to my professional conduct or the
operations of the office they will effectively prevent me from leading the office's work at
this critical time I therefore resign my office effective at the close of business on May 8th
2018 his ex-wife also issued a statement I've known Eric for nearly 35 years as a husband father

(01:07:42):
and friend these accusations are completely inconsistent with the man I know who has always
been someone of the highest character outstanding values and a loving father I find it impossible
to believe these allegations are true her mother wrote to her and begged her not to go on tv and
get cheap publicity at that point she was used to being blamed by her mother she could not put

(01:08:02):
herself in shoes and in her shoes and see that she had done the right thing she felt the sting of
her judgment she had already planned to not do any follow-up press anyway Barbara Underwood was
appointing appointed acting attorney general the first woman to hold a position Tonya began
receiving an outpouring of support from strangers friends and even some family members especially

(01:08:24):
those of her generation she had worried about her career but her boss to be at a new art center
called to check on her he said they were still on plan peer into its center flowers Governor Cuomo
announced the appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate Eric Tonya's ex-husband reached out
to her by text I'm sorry for what you're going through and my heart goes out to you excuse me

(01:08:48):
sending much strength and love as you can guess journalists have started reaching out to me other
than expressing my support I'm not commenting obviously wishing you the greatest strength as
ever I admire your willingness to take a stand and be strong the world's better for it she heard
that efforts were being made to discredit the story Erick's ex-wife was sending emails to people

(01:09:09):
at the New York Times she claimed the New Yorker story was a witch hunt and that the magazine
wasn't interested in hearing the other side the investigation by Nassau County DA Madeline Singers
began she met her and her team at her lawyer Robert's office she was asked what evidence of
abuse she had she thought again if she had to be bruised to be believed Singers said she founded
frustrating how high the bar was set for Eric's actions to be considered a crime she said he

(01:09:33):
fooled a lot of people after Eric resigned millions of dollars were made at his campaign fund hundreds
of thousands of which he'd used to pay his legal bills a few friends who contributed were eager
to get their money back after they figured out how to Tonya emailed to get her share and stated
she would redone it to a worthy cause on October 6 the Times published Tanya's op-ed again I've

(01:09:59):
linked the article but here are some excerpts ultimately I take responsibility for staying
but doing so took a deep toll I've a long bridge to cross before I can be in an intimate
relationship again I didn't understand until after the relationship ended how physiological
the impact is the shaking and shuddering that happens suddenly when I feel trapped when I feel

(01:10:21):
mocked symptoms of post traumatic stress are real and a common reaction to abuse sometimes when I
look in the mirror I hear his voice in my head belittling me still while I regret getting into
the relationship I don't regret coming forward we've learned this past year that our words can
chip away at violence and can challenge the way society conditions us to accept it recently I've

(01:10:42):
been reading Naomi alderman's novel the power about a future society in which women discover
hidden physical abilities which includes this passage a dozen women turned into 100 a hundred
turned into a thousand the police retreated the women shouted some made placards they understood
their strength all at once we've learned that we're not alone we understand our strength all at

(01:11:03):
once she received many messages including one from her mother saying I am only sad that you had to
go through all this you were strong just like your mother I am not mad remember no one loves you
more I love you so much and will always support you next time if you find someone let me know
and I will give you my opinion after reading this she felt a healing and a move toward a positive

(01:11:26):
place between her mother and herself on November 18 November 8th 2018 Madeline Singers Maddie
Maddie an announcement about made an announcement about the investigation guys I'm so sorry my voice
is really starting to go I'm kind of all over the place so please forgive my mistakes and forgive

(01:11:47):
my voice for sounding terrible so her statement was following an exhaustive review evaluation
of the facts the law and applicable status limitations I've concluded our investigation
into the allegations of physical abuse allegedly committed by Schneiderman without criminal charges
I believe the women who share their experiences with our investigation team however legal impediments

(01:12:11):
including statues and limitations preclude criminal prosecution she also said that she proposed a new
state law to protect victims of sexually motivated violence by making it illegal to hitch
of slap or kick someone without their consent for the purpose of sexual harassment or gratification
Eric issued a statement I recognize the district attorney singer's decision not to prosecute

(01:12:34):
does not mean I have done nothing wrong I accept full responsibility for my conduct in my relationships
with my accusers and for the impact it had on them he also said he was seeking help in a rehab
facility and was committed to a lifelong path of recovery and making amends to those he had harmed
Tanya felt it was a positive outcome she was surprised by Eric's words she figured he'd had

(01:12:54):
no choice but to make that statement but might not actually mean it but she was glad he was in rehab
so that is Tanya's story it's a really interesting one honestly I recommend getting the book because
there's so much information in it but also because I felt that there was so much important

(01:13:15):
information in terms of like there's lots of really interesting facts there's lots of you know
information about abuse and how to spot it and all the rest of that and even though I've spoken
about things like that before because I think her information is so important I'm going to release
a bonus episode along with this episode I'm hoping that I will release it the day after this episode

(01:13:37):
comes out I'm not sure with the sound of my voice right now if I'm gonna be able to record it it's
gonna be maybe like a 15-20 minute episode it's gonna be pretty quick I'm just gonna read
some excerpts from her book directly but I highly recommend tuning in for that one or at least
getting the book again I've linked the book in my bio and all of the articles the statements

(01:13:59):
everything that I mentioned here is all linked to the bio and there's so much info out there about
this story but I wanted as I do with every story I want to get the point of view of the victim
themselves and I think it's really brave of Tanya to come forward particularly in such a public way
as she did and you know she risked a lot to be able to help other women who may potentially

(01:14:27):
come into contact with Eric you know she kind of sacrificed herself for them I think and I think
that that's extremely brave and yeah that is my story this week I am like I said going on vacation
next week I'm working every day until then I have my next episode ready to go I just have to record

(01:14:49):
it I'm not sure if I'm gonna get time I was hoping I would have it done before I went to Ireland
but I do have um when I get back from Ireland I have like four or five days still off work so I'm
gonna try and pack in as much into the podcast as I possibly can um I've so much stuff coming up
once I get back I have to plan my friends bachelor party which is going up soon um I'm planning a trip

(01:15:15):
um for a month I'm taking a month off work and I'm planning a trip um and then I have so much
more stuff coming up at the podcast and I'm so excited about I also oh my god I also guys I got
Beyonce tickets like how exciting for Florida me and my friend um Trisha we were she's like my my

(01:15:37):
Beyonce girl she's like my concert girl really she's so much fun at concerts you know when you just
vibe with somebody um so we literally signed up for everything every city I think in the world
where she's doing a show we signed up for and uh Florida were the first since I got and I was like
do you know what fuck I'm just gonna get them so I got them but that's our backup and then we're
gonna we're gonna see like we're gonna just do a vacation somewhere else you know who knows

(01:16:00):
we might go twice I've never been to Florida before I'm excited okay I'm gonna go because I'm
rambling now um don't get me sorry song Beyonce because I will not shut up um sorry about my voice
being not great uh for this one um and yeah I'll talk to you guys next time and take care out there
and live your best lives bye

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