July 29, 2024 • 23 mins
Uncover the legal maze of adverse possession and residency issues with a spotlight on protecting your property. Bob delves into the distinctions between simply trespassing and taking up residence, stressing the urgency of quick action in tenant-friendly states. We also discuss the peculiar challenges snowbirds face upon returning to their Arizona homes, potentially occupied by squatters. Gain essential insights into preventive measures to safeguard your property during lengthy absences, offering valuable knowledge for both property owners and legal aficionados alike.
Curious about the fine line between squatting and trespassing? Discover the intricacies of squatting laws, featuring attorney Bob Sewell, as we humorously tackle Sarah Clifford's playful attempt to "claim" the sixth floor of our office. We dissect how squatting regulations vary across regions, including an intriguing look at a high-profile case involving Gordon Ramsay's London restaurant. Bob highlights the legal obstacles landlords encounter in Arizona, emphasizing the importance of navigating the court system and bypassing self-help measures to resolve these disputes effectively.
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Episode Transcript
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Bob Sewell (00:04):
Is that even legal?
It's a question we askourselves on a daily basis.
We ask it about our neighbors,we ask it about our elected
officials, we ask it about ourfamily and sometimes we ask it
to ourselves.
The law is complex and itimpacts everyone all the time,
and that's why we are here.
I'm attorney Bob Sewell, andthis is season five of the
(00:26):
worldwide podcast that exploresthat one burning question.
Is that even legal?
Let's go.
Sarah Clifford (00:36):
Hi, welcome to this episode of.
Is that Even Legal?
I'm Sarah Clifford, I'm anattorney at Davis Miles and this
is the annual episode where Iget to try and take over Bob's
podcast.
So far, I think this is myfourth go at it.
I have been unsuccessful.
I have sent Paul fruit baskets,I have done my very best, and
(00:57):
yet Bob continues to host, andso I have set my sights on
something bigger and better, andthat is the vacant floor in our
office building, the sixthfloor.
So my plan is I'm going to goput up my tent on the sixth
floor and I am going to camp outand stay there, and it is going
to be mine, because I reallywant to take something over.
(01:18):
Bob.
Is that even legal?
Bob Sewell (01:23):
No, no, it's not legal.
You cannot squat on the sixthfloor and take over the sixth
floor.
But I understand would want to.
It's a great view.
Sarah Clifford (01:34):
It is a great view.
We get the mountains and thefreeway and you get a lot of
really nice ambient noise.
But, bob, I read a bunch ofarticles on this subject about
squatters rights, and in thesearticles it talks about how
landlords are having, um, anissue with squatters coming in.
(01:57):
And in fact there is a veryfamous chef whose restaurant uh,
gordon r Ramsay had arestaurant and people are trying
to squat in it and take it.
So if they can squat and takeGordon Ramsay's restaurant, that
is worth you know, $16 million,why can't I squat on the sixth
(02:18):
floor and take the sixth floor?
I just want to take something.
Bob Sewell (02:23):
Yeah, first of all, I mean, what's unique to the
Gordon Ramsey issue is it's inLondon.
If this was in Arizona it wouldbe a whole lot easier to get
you out.
But yeah, it's a problem withour laws in states that are more
favorable to tenants, wheresquatting can be a very
(02:50):
effective way for a period oftime, to gain control over a
residence or a property.
And once you're there, it'stough to get you out because I
don't get to use self-help.
In other words, I can't come inwith my gun and point it at you
and say get the heck out of mysixth floor.
And similarly, dave Ramseydoesn't get to use self-help and
(03:15):
point a gun at himself.
You know, point a gun at themand say get out of my, get out
of my unit.
It becomes more complicatedthan that because we have to now
employ attorneys.
Sarah Clifford (03:28):
Yeah, but, bob, attorneys in the court system,
it takes a really long time toget through the court system and
you know, if I wanted to squaton a property, if I, if I so.
So you're telling me, and whatthese people are doing in London
is they put a notice on thedoor and they said, hey, we're
(03:51):
occupying this property, this isour property, we're open and
we're notorious, we're hostile.
There is somebody here at alltimes occupying this property.
Arizona doesn't have anythingsimilar.
Bob Sewell (04:06):
So so let's talk about that for a little bit.
I mean, first of all, we got todissect what's going on.
So Sarah Clifford walks up tothe sixth floor and puts up a
tent and says I now live here.
(04:26):
Well, generally speaking, whenI've trespassed on your property
, I could call the police andsay Sarah Clifford is
trespassing, get out, have herget out.
Now the question becomes whenI've now taken residence.
Now the question becomes whenI've now taken residence.
(04:46):
And when I've taken a residenceit gets more complicated
because or is this person atenant, or I've been here and
this is my residence.
(05:07):
Now the police are not as likelyto just throw you out.
They're going to want a courtorder to get that person out.
They don't want to take therisk of violating someone's
rights or getting involved inthe civil practice, in the civil
world.
(05:27):
They are there for criminalenforcement.
So it's real easy.
When Sarah comes to my houseand pitches a tent and says hell
, no, I won't go, protests on myfront lawn.
I say that's my front lawn,please, please, get out of my
front lawn.
I say that's my front lawn,please get out of my front lawn.
But it's different when youmove into my house and you've
(05:53):
been there for two weeks and I'mlike, hey, it's really now time
to leave, and you're like, no,I live here now, get me out.
Get me out.
That's a different story, andso we now need to employ people
attorneys to get you out becauseof the civil process.
Sarah Clifford (06:20):
Bob, what if I decide to camp out on the sixth
floor and the landlord is reallyafraid of attorneys?
They think attorneys are likethe dentist and they're scared
to work with attorneys.
And they're scared, and so theyjust want to bury their head in
the sand.
They don't want to do anythingabout it, they don't want to
approach it, they're not doinganything with the property
anyways, and so they are justgoing to not do anything, bury
their head in the sand.
How long?
(06:40):
Well, firstly, can they burytheir head in the sand about
this issue?
How long can they bury theirhead in the sand?
And what happens if they dobury their head in the sand?
Bob Sewell (06:50):
So yeah, I mean in most, every state you're going
to have, there's going to besome pressure points, right?
So the longer it goes on Idon't know if there's an exact
deadline the longer this goes on, the more likely it looks like
a tenant and not a squat, andnot just someone who is
(07:11):
trespassing.
You know, this is a squatter,right?
And the difference betweensquatter and tenant is you know
what's coming out of theirmouths, right?
So the squatter is a tenant andthat to the person who's
squatting, but to the landlordthey're just squatters, right?
So this is.
(07:32):
But the longer this goes on,you should act immediately.
They're trespassing.
They came in it's vagrancy.
You know things like this tocast it in that light, because
once they're there for you knowsome extended period and they've
taken up residence, you'regoing to be treating them like a
tenant.
That's the problem.
(07:54):
You're going to be getting themout like a tenant, and that's
the issue.
And most states are not likeArizona.
Most states have very friendlylandlord, are not like Arizona.
Most states have very friendlylandlord, very friendly tenant
laws, and it takes a long timeto get someone out.
You know, it's like someonetold me it's like six months
(08:16):
plus in New York, give me abreak.
Right, arizona, you could havesomeone out in about 20 to 30
days from the date you givenotice, which is incredible.
You know, incredibly fast.
We're not.
We don't have very friend.
We have very friendly landlordlaws, okay.
(08:36):
So, yeah, it's.
They need to start acting quick.
Sarah Clifford (08:41):
So, bob, if I am able to successfully camp out
on the sixth floor for longenough, can I make the sixth
floor mine?
Can I take ownership of thesixth floor away from the
landlord?
Bob Sewell (09:01):
yeah, so you're.
What you're talking about isadverse possession, and adverse
possession has to be open,notorious, hostile.
You.
As for our sixth floor, that'sgoing to be tough to to
adversely possess it, but if Iwould say it was just a, a shack
(09:21):
, someone's house on the otherside of town, that's going to be
a lot easier.
(09:46):
It takes adverse possession inArizona.
It's tough, but, yeah, you cando it.
Sarah Clifford (09:56):
So in Arizona, Bob, we have a lot of snowbirds.
Do snowbirds need to beconcerned about adverse
possession and if so, whatshould they do?
Bob Sewell (10:08):
They don't need to be concerned about adverse
possession.
They do need to be concernedabout squatters.
These are true squatters, right?
So in Arizona it's a sunshinebelt state and what that means
is we get people from all overin the cold states and they come
here for the best time ofArizona, that winter time, and
(10:34):
during the year, you know, theyhave their golf club house.
There's all sorts of 55 andolder communities in Arizona.
They're all on golf courses andthen during the summertime
people leave and they summarizetheir house.
Believe it or not, they're goingto put up bars and things like
(10:57):
this or whatever they do, put upprivacy stuff.
They leave, they go back tocanada, they go back to
minnesota, they go back to idahoand, yeah, they, they got a
problem and we have a problem inarizona.
It's I don't think it's uniqueto arizona.
I think we, I think it's justwhat's unique to arizona is our
(11:19):
snowbirds.
And you could end up with asituation where you come back
from Canada and someone's livingin your house and in Arizona
you don't turn your power off.
You may turn your airconditioning down to like 85,
(11:39):
but you don't turn your poweroff for that period of time
because your house will bedamaged by the heat.
So you have someone using yourutilities inside your house and
there's and you're going to beat least a month, depending on
how quick your attorney can actto get them out at least and
(12:01):
then they're causing damage.
Sarah Clifford (12:03):
So how does that like?
Could I be liable?
Let's say I live in a 55 andolder community and somebody
starts squatting in my property,who is 26.
Could I be in trouble with theHOA and get into not only a
dispute with the squatter butalso a dispute with the HOA over
(12:29):
this person residing in myproperty?
Bob Sewell (12:33):
Theoretically.
Yes, right, so in these 55 andolder communities, you got to be
older than 55.
I know that sounds stupid, butthat's the restriction on those
communities.
You have to be over 55 toreside in those communities.
That doesn't mean that youcan't have a guest.
You have your kids visit for aweek or two.
(12:56):
It just means you're going tobe a permanent resident.
You have to be over 55.
Well, you have a squatterthat's 26 years old.
You've now violated your HOAand your HOA has a right to say
get your squatter out, and theyhave a right to demand that you
(13:17):
act.
So, yes, that's going to be anissue for you.
Sarah Clifford (13:20):
Yeah.
So what if I and I know wetalked about you can't go pull a
gun on them.
But what if, instead of doingthat, I'm going to take the less
drastic approach and I'm justgoing to go change the locks on
the squatter?
I'm going to go in, I'm goingto change the locks on them.
(13:43):
I am good, can I do that?
Bob Sewell (13:46):
So the answer is no, but who's going to sue you?
You know what you're reallysaying is are you going to out
squat the squatter, right?
And so theoretically you can'tdo it.
It's not legal, it's probablypretty dangerous, right?
(14:08):
I mean, squatters are typicallydesperate people.
They're willing to do desperatethings.
They're not particularlyrational.
Otherwise they just have a joband get a regular.
You know, get their own house.
A job and get a regular.
You know, get their own house.
(14:29):
They've made an irrationaldecision to trespass and try to
steal someone's residence.
No-transcript.
You know, theoretically itcould work right.
So I've seen these storiesonline where someone goes in.
They wait for the squatters toleave.
They go in, they toss all thesquatter stuff out on the street
(14:53):
, they change the locks in placebetween them and the owner.
They have hired their armedsquatter and when the police
come by and say hey, this iswhere the Johnsons live, not you
(15:16):
, he says what are you talkingabout?
Here's my signed lease.
I don't know who those guys are.
And then the police say I don'tknow who those guys are.
(15:40):
And then the police say well,someone out.
You follow the process ofgetting them out through the
Landlord-Tenant Act.
You could probably get anemergency.
There's ways to get them outquicker under the
Landlord-Tenant Act in Arizona.
But I think that the chances ofhaving to deal with that
(16:01):
squatter in that drastic way isless likely here in Arizona
because I could go hire alandlord tenant attorney for
very inexpensive.
Like these guys, they walk inwith like 20, 30 evictions at a
time.
They slap them down on thetable.
They're like evicting Smith,evicting Johnson, evicting
(16:24):
Sewell, evicting Clifford, andthey handle it like this and the
judge walks through these andthen within five days they're
having our whole system that thelaw enforcement go out and
(16:46):
remove them and change the locks.
So it's less of a.
You're less likely to see thesedrastic moves to get people out
in arizona than you are inother states because our laws
are favorable to the owners.
But in other states, like Isaid, six months or more come on
(17:07):
, man, really, to get a squatterout.
You're more likely to seesomeone taking these drastic
actions.
Like I said, they probably willwork.
You could out, squat thesquatter.
Sarah Clifford (17:19):
Yeah, oh yeah, I've also saw.
I was gonna say I saw a websitecalled squatter hunters and you
can hire a squatter to move inwith your squatter and make your
squatter sink and the goal isto just you know, if you can
(17:46):
squat in this property, whycan't I also squat in this
property and make your lifemiserable?
So I mean, obviously I think wewould discourage people doing
that, because it's kind ofdangerous moving in with
somebody that you don't reallyknow who is squatting on the
(18:08):
property, like they could bedangerous.
Oftentimes there's substanceabuse issues or mental health
issues, um or other underlyingissues that are, you know,
related to the need to squatpotentially.
But yeah, should I like, if Ilive in one of these states like
(18:33):
California or New York that hasvery friendly landlord laws,
should I take these drasticmeasures?
Bob Sewell (18:44):
Yeah, I wouldn't, but I could see why someone
would want to and I could seewhy someone would go to that
drastic method.
You know, there's a story.
I saw her bedroom right, herspare bedroom and she leases it
out on Airbnb and on a temporarybasis and one thing leads to
(19:14):
another and the person's likeI'm not leaving and she had to
live with that person for likenine months or something stupid
like that, and that person'seating her food and just
generally unpleasant, and sheinadvertently ends up with the
squatter.
(19:34):
Well, yeah, I could see whyyou'd want to take some drastic
method.
You know, do some drastic thing, but I don't know if I would
recommend it as an attorney andI could see that it's going to
work.
Right, I mean, I walk in and I'msuddenly I'm suddenly sleeping
(19:59):
on the person's couch.
And what are you talking about?
You know this is my couch now,and you know, no, is my couch
now.
And you know, no, I'm not goingto stop eating your cold cereal
.
I like, I like Froot Loops, youknow.
I mean, I could see thisbecoming problematic very
quickly.
I also see it being effective.
I just, you know, we live inArizona.
(20:20):
In Arizona, you know, there'stwice as many guns as there are
people, you have to think of agood way to get yourself shot.
Sarah Clifford (20:34):
So I don't think it's a good idea to do it.
Would it be effective?
Yeah, probably, maybe.
Bob Sewell (20:41):
Or maybe they just say, hey, a roommate, you know,
and you wonder like, hey, whenthe person, the person, leaves,
why did you just change thelocks and then pretend like the
person never lived there and saywhat are you talking about?
This person's mentally insane,they never lived here.
I mean, I could see this, this,that being effective too, uh,
but don't recommend it, don'trecommend it definitely
(21:04):
dangerous.
Sarah Clifford (21:06):
So I will let you know that when I squat on
the sixth floor, I will decorateit reasonably and nicely and I
will keep my parties to aminimum.
Bob Sewell (21:22):
Um, the mosh pit will only happen on tuesdays,
when you have court okay, so Ihear everything from upstairs
while I'm trying to be on courton the television or on my on my
video machine here in theoffice oh yeah, for sure it's
gonna.
Sarah Clifford (21:42):
It's going to be like Jimmy Eat World and I'm
going to have all my friends andwe're going to be bouncing and
the ceiling's going to berattling a little bit and the
judge is going to be like.
Mr Sewell, can you turn downyour music a little bit?
Bob Sewell (21:57):
Oh my gosh, that's going to be.
Oh, I could see this happeningto someone.
That'd just be horrible.
Sarah Clifford (22:06):
Perfect.
Well, that concludes thisepisode of.
Is that Even Legal?
And I am going to go take allmy stuff and move up to the
sixth floor now.
Bob Sewell (22:15):
Sounds good.
As long as you're not squattingon my podcast, I'm good with it
.
Sarah Clifford (22:21):
Oh, I'll be back next season, just you wait.
Bob Sewell (22:27):
Thanks for listening to the podcast.
Is that Even Legal is nowlistened to in a hundred
countries and available onvirtually all podcast platforms.
Leave us a review, send us someshow ideas and do so at
producer at evenlegalcom.
Don't forget, as smart as wesound and as lovable as we are,
(22:47):
we are not your lawyers and weare not giving you legal advice.
But if you need some legaladvice, get some.
There are some great lawyersout there and we are always
ready to help.
See you next time.
Is that even legal?
It's a question we askourselves on a daily basis.
We ask it about our neighbors,we ask it about our elected
officials, we ask it about ourfamily and sometimes we ask it
to ourselves.
The law is complex and itimpacts everyone all the time,
and that's why we are here.
I'm attorney Bob Sewell, andthis is season five of the
(00:26):
worldwide podcast that exploresthat one burning question.
Is that even legal?
Let's go.
Sarah Clifford (00:36):
Hi, welcome to this episode of.
Is that Even Legal?
I'm Sarah Clifford, I'm anattorney at Davis Miles and this
is the annual episode where Iget to try and take over Bob's
podcast.
So far, I think this is myfourth go at it.
I have been unsuccessful.
I have sent Paul fruit baskets,I have done my very best, and
(00:57):
yet Bob continues to host, andso I have set my sights on
something bigger and better, andthat is the vacant floor in our
office building, the sixthfloor.
So my plan is I'm going to goput up my tent on the sixth
floor and I am going to camp outand stay there, and it is going
to be mine, because I reallywant to take something over.
(01:18):
Bob.
Is that even legal?
Bob Sewell (01:23):
No, no, it's not legal.
You cannot squat on the sixthfloor and take over the sixth
floor.
But I understand would want to.
It's a great view.
Sarah Clifford (01:34):
It is a great view.
We get the mountains and thefreeway and you get a lot of
really nice ambient noise.
But, bob, I read a bunch ofarticles on this subject about
squatters rights, and in thesearticles it talks about how
landlords are having, um, anissue with squatters coming in.
(01:57):
And in fact there is a veryfamous chef whose restaurant uh,
gordon r Ramsay had arestaurant and people are trying
to squat in it and take it.
So if they can squat and takeGordon Ramsay's restaurant, that
is worth you know, $16 million,why can't I squat on the sixth
(02:18):
floor and take the sixth floor?
I just want to take something.
Bob Sewell (02:23):
Yeah, first of all, I mean, what's unique to the
Gordon Ramsey issue is it's inLondon.
If this was in Arizona it wouldbe a whole lot easier to get
you out.
But yeah, it's a problem withour laws in states that are more
favorable to tenants, wheresquatting can be a very
(02:50):
effective way for a period oftime, to gain control over a
residence or a property.
And once you're there, it'stough to get you out because I
don't get to use self-help.
In other words, I can't come inwith my gun and point it at you
and say get the heck out of mysixth floor.
And similarly, dave Ramseydoesn't get to use self-help and
(03:15):
point a gun at himself.
You know, point a gun at themand say get out of my, get out
of my unit.
It becomes more complicatedthan that because we have to now
employ attorneys.
Sarah Clifford (03:28):
Yeah, but, bob, attorneys in the court system,
it takes a really long time toget through the court system and
you know, if I wanted to squaton a property, if I, if I so.
So you're telling me, and whatthese people are doing in London
is they put a notice on thedoor and they said, hey, we're
(03:51):
occupying this property, this isour property, we're open and
we're notorious, we're hostile.
There is somebody here at alltimes occupying this property.
Arizona doesn't have anythingsimilar.
Bob Sewell (04:06):
So so let's talk about that for a little bit.
I mean, first of all, we got todissect what's going on.
So Sarah Clifford walks up tothe sixth floor and puts up a
tent and says I now live here.
(04:26):
Well, generally speaking, whenI've trespassed on your property
, I could call the police andsay Sarah Clifford is
trespassing, get out, have herget out.
Now the question becomes whenI've now taken residence.
Now the question becomes whenI've now taken residence.
(04:46):
And when I've taken a residenceit gets more complicated
because or is this person atenant, or I've been here and
this is my residence.
(05:07):
Now the police are not as likelyto just throw you out.
They're going to want a courtorder to get that person out.
They don't want to take therisk of violating someone's
rights or getting involved inthe civil practice, in the civil
world.
(05:27):
They are there for criminalenforcement.
So it's real easy.
When Sarah comes to my houseand pitches a tent and says hell
, no, I won't go, protests on myfront lawn.
I say that's my front lawn,please, please, get out of my
front lawn.
I say that's my front lawn,please get out of my front lawn.
But it's different when youmove into my house and you've
(05:53):
been there for two weeks and I'mlike, hey, it's really now time
to leave, and you're like, no,I live here now, get me out.
Get me out.
That's a different story, andso we now need to employ people
attorneys to get you out becauseof the civil process.
Sarah Clifford (06:20):
Bob, what if I decide to camp out on the sixth
floor and the landlord is reallyafraid of attorneys?
They think attorneys are likethe dentist and they're scared
to work with attorneys.
And they're scared, and so theyjust want to bury their head in
the sand.
They don't want to do anythingabout it, they don't want to
approach it, they're not doinganything with the property
anyways, and so they are justgoing to not do anything, bury
their head in the sand.
How long?
(06:40):
Well, firstly, can they burytheir head in the sand about
this issue?
How long can they bury theirhead in the sand?
And what happens if they dobury their head in the sand?
Bob Sewell (06:50):
So yeah, I mean in most, every state you're going
to have, there's going to besome pressure points, right?
So the longer it goes on Idon't know if there's an exact
deadline the longer this goes on, the more likely it looks like
a tenant and not a squat, andnot just someone who is
(07:11):
trespassing.
You know, this is a squatter,right?
And the difference betweensquatter and tenant is you know
what's coming out of theirmouths, right?
So the squatter is a tenant andthat to the person who's
squatting, but to the landlordthey're just squatters, right?
So this is.
(07:32):
But the longer this goes on,you should act immediately.
They're trespassing.
They came in it's vagrancy.
You know things like this tocast it in that light, because
once they're there for you knowsome extended period and they've
taken up residence, you'regoing to be treating them like a
tenant.
That's the problem.
(07:54):
You're going to be getting themout like a tenant, and that's
the issue.
And most states are not likeArizona.
Most states have very friendlylandlord, are not like Arizona.
Most states have very friendlylandlord, very friendly tenant
laws, and it takes a long timeto get someone out.
You know, it's like someonetold me it's like six months
(08:16):
plus in New York, give me abreak.
Right, arizona, you could havesomeone out in about 20 to 30
days from the date you givenotice, which is incredible.
You know, incredibly fast.
We're not.
We don't have very friend.
We have very friendly landlordlaws, okay.
(08:36):
So, yeah, it's.
They need to start acting quick.
Sarah Clifford (08:41):
So, bob, if I am able to successfully camp out
on the sixth floor for longenough, can I make the sixth
floor mine?
Can I take ownership of thesixth floor away from the
landlord?
Bob Sewell (09:01):
yeah, so you're.
What you're talking about isadverse possession, and adverse
possession has to be open,notorious, hostile.
You.
As for our sixth floor, that'sgoing to be tough to to
adversely possess it, but if Iwould say it was just a, a shack
(09:21):
, someone's house on the otherside of town, that's going to be
a lot easier.
(09:46):
It takes adverse possession inArizona.
It's tough, but, yeah, you cando it.
Sarah Clifford (09:56):
So in Arizona, Bob, we have a lot of snowbirds.
Do snowbirds need to beconcerned about adverse
possession and if so, whatshould they do?
Bob Sewell (10:08):
They don't need to be concerned about adverse
possession.
They do need to be concernedabout squatters.
These are true squatters, right?
So in Arizona it's a sunshinebelt state and what that means
is we get people from all overin the cold states and they come
here for the best time ofArizona, that winter time, and
(10:34):
during the year, you know, theyhave their golf club house.
There's all sorts of 55 andolder communities in Arizona.
They're all on golf courses andthen during the summertime
people leave and they summarizetheir house.
Believe it or not, they're goingto put up bars and things like
(10:57):
this or whatever they do, put upprivacy stuff.
They leave, they go back tocanada, they go back to
minnesota, they go back to idahoand, yeah, they, they got a
problem and we have a problem inarizona.
It's I don't think it's uniqueto arizona.
I think we, I think it's justwhat's unique to arizona is our
(11:19):
snowbirds.
And you could end up with asituation where you come back
from Canada and someone's livingin your house and in Arizona
you don't turn your power off.
You may turn your airconditioning down to like 85,
(11:39):
but you don't turn your poweroff for that period of time
because your house will bedamaged by the heat.
So you have someone using yourutilities inside your house and
there's and you're going to beat least a month, depending on
how quick your attorney can actto get them out at least and
(12:01):
then they're causing damage.
Sarah Clifford (12:03):
So how does that like?
Could I be liable?
Let's say I live in a 55 andolder community and somebody
starts squatting in my property,who is 26.
Could I be in trouble with theHOA and get into not only a
dispute with the squatter butalso a dispute with the HOA over
(12:29):
this person residing in myproperty?
Bob Sewell (12:33):
Theoretically.
Yes, right, so in these 55 andolder communities, you got to be
older than 55.
I know that sounds stupid, butthat's the restriction on those
communities.
You have to be over 55 toreside in those communities.
That doesn't mean that youcan't have a guest.
You have your kids visit for aweek or two.
(12:56):
It just means you're going tobe a permanent resident.
You have to be over 55.
Well, you have a squatterthat's 26 years old.
You've now violated your HOAand your HOA has a right to say
get your squatter out, and theyhave a right to demand that you
(13:17):
act.
So, yes, that's going to be anissue for you.
Sarah Clifford (13:20):
Yeah.
So what if I and I know wetalked about you can't go pull a
gun on them.
But what if, instead of doingthat, I'm going to take the less
drastic approach and I'm justgoing to go change the locks on
the squatter?
I'm going to go in, I'm goingto change the locks on them.
(13:43):
I am good, can I do that?
Bob Sewell (13:46):
So the answer is no, but who's going to sue you?
You know what you're reallysaying is are you going to out
squat the squatter, right?
And so theoretically you can'tdo it.
It's not legal, it's probablypretty dangerous, right?
(14:08):
I mean, squatters are typicallydesperate people.
They're willing to do desperatethings.
They're not particularlyrational.
Otherwise they just have a joband get a regular.
You know, get their own house.
A job and get a regular.
You know, get their own house.
(14:29):
They've made an irrationaldecision to trespass and try to
steal someone's residence.
No-transcript.
You know, theoretically itcould work right.
So I've seen these storiesonline where someone goes in.
They wait for the squatters toleave.
They go in, they toss all thesquatter stuff out on the street
(14:53):
, they change the locks in placebetween them and the owner.
They have hired their armedsquatter and when the police
come by and say hey, this iswhere the Johnsons live, not you
(15:16):
, he says what are you talkingabout?
Here's my signed lease.
I don't know who those guys are.
And then the police say I don'tknow who those guys are.
(15:40):
And then the police say well,someone out.
You follow the process ofgetting them out through the
Landlord-Tenant Act.
You could probably get anemergency.
There's ways to get them outquicker under the
Landlord-Tenant Act in Arizona.
But I think that the chances ofhaving to deal with that
(16:01):
squatter in that drastic way isless likely here in Arizona
because I could go hire alandlord tenant attorney for
very inexpensive.
Like these guys, they walk inwith like 20, 30 evictions at a
time.
They slap them down on thetable.
They're like evicting Smith,evicting Johnson, evicting
(16:24):
Sewell, evicting Clifford, andthey handle it like this and the
judge walks through these andthen within five days they're
having our whole system that thelaw enforcement go out and
(16:46):
remove them and change the locks.
So it's less of a.
You're less likely to see thesedrastic moves to get people out
in arizona than you are inother states because our laws
are favorable to the owners.
But in other states, like Isaid, six months or more come on
(17:07):
, man, really, to get a squatterout.
You're more likely to seesomeone taking these drastic
actions.
Like I said, they probably willwork.
You could out, squat thesquatter.
Sarah Clifford (17:19):
Yeah, oh yeah, I've also saw.
I was gonna say I saw a websitecalled squatter hunters and you
can hire a squatter to move inwith your squatter and make your
squatter sink and the goal isto just you know, if you can
(17:46):
squat in this property, whycan't I also squat in this
property and make your lifemiserable?
So I mean, obviously I think wewould discourage people doing
that, because it's kind ofdangerous moving in with
somebody that you don't reallyknow who is squatting on the
(18:08):
property, like they could bedangerous.
Oftentimes there's substanceabuse issues or mental health
issues, um or other underlyingissues that are, you know,
related to the need to squatpotentially.
But yeah, should I like, if Ilive in one of these states like
(18:33):
California or New York that hasvery friendly landlord laws,
should I take these drasticmeasures?
Bob Sewell (18:44):
Yeah, I wouldn't, but I could see why someone
would want to and I could seewhy someone would go to that
drastic method.
You know, there's a story.
I saw her bedroom right, herspare bedroom and she leases it
out on Airbnb and on a temporarybasis and one thing leads to
(19:14):
another and the person's likeI'm not leaving and she had to
live with that person for likenine months or something stupid
like that, and that person'seating her food and just
generally unpleasant, and sheinadvertently ends up with the
squatter.
(19:34):
Well, yeah, I could see whyyou'd want to take some drastic
method.
You know, do some drastic thing, but I don't know if I would
recommend it as an attorney andI could see that it's going to
work.
Right, I mean, I walk in and I'msuddenly I'm suddenly sleeping
(19:59):
on the person's couch.
And what are you talking about?
You know this is my couch now,and you know, no, is my couch
now.
And you know, no, I'm not goingto stop eating your cold cereal
.
I like, I like Froot Loops, youknow.
I mean, I could see thisbecoming problematic very
quickly.
I also see it being effective.
I just, you know, we live inArizona.
(20:20):
In Arizona, you know, there'stwice as many guns as there are
people, you have to think of agood way to get yourself shot.
Sarah Clifford (20:34):
So I don't think it's a good idea to do it.
Would it be effective?
Yeah, probably, maybe.
Bob Sewell (20:41):
Or maybe they just say, hey, a roommate, you know,
and you wonder like, hey, whenthe person, the person, leaves,
why did you just change thelocks and then pretend like the
person never lived there and saywhat are you talking about?
This person's mentally insane,they never lived here.
I mean, I could see this, this,that being effective too, uh,
but don't recommend it, don'trecommend it definitely
(21:04):
dangerous.
Sarah Clifford (21:06):
So I will let you know that when I squat on
the sixth floor, I will decorateit reasonably and nicely and I
will keep my parties to aminimum.
Bob Sewell (21:22):
Um, the mosh pit will only happen on tuesdays,
when you have court okay, so Ihear everything from upstairs
while I'm trying to be on courton the television or on my on my
video machine here in theoffice oh yeah, for sure it's
gonna.
Sarah Clifford (21:42):
It's going to be like Jimmy Eat World and I'm
going to have all my friends andwe're going to be bouncing and
the ceiling's going to berattling a little bit and the
judge is going to be like.
Mr Sewell, can you turn downyour music a little bit?
Bob Sewell (21:57):
Oh my gosh, that's going to be.
Oh, I could see this happeningto someone.
That'd just be horrible.
Sarah Clifford (22:06):
Perfect.
Well, that concludes thisepisode of.
Is that Even Legal?
And I am going to go take allmy stuff and move up to the
sixth floor now.
Bob Sewell (22:15):
Sounds good.
As long as you're not squattingon my podcast, I'm good with it
.
Sarah Clifford (22:21):
Oh, I'll be back next season, just you wait.
Bob Sewell (22:27):
Thanks for listening to the podcast.
Is that Even Legal is nowlistened to in a hundred
countries and available onvirtually all podcast platforms.
Leave us a review, send us someshow ideas and do so at
producer at evenlegalcom.
Don't forget, as smart as wesound and as lovable as we are,
(22:47):
we are not your lawyers and weare not giving you legal advice.
But if you need some legaladvice, get some.
There are some great lawyersout there and we are always
ready to help.
See you next time.
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