December 9, 2025 • 30 mins
We explore how success without joy pushes you to redefine life on your terms, and how dismantling the boxes of expectation can unlock purpose, resilience, and impact. Betsy shares practical tools for healing, building a mission‑driven business, and choosing joy daily.
• rising from divorce and layoff to design a new career path
• naming family and cultural boxes that limit growth
• creating a two‑year pivot plan with clear contingencies
• therapy, EMDR, yoga, and journaling as healing tools
• reframing failure as learning and pivoting
• detaching from praise and criticism to reduce fear
• joy as a daily state, not a fleeting emotion
• building housing impact through a focused nonprofit
• living intentionally with what you read, hear, and who you keep close
• where to find Breaking Boxes and connect with Betsy
Purchase “Dismantling the Metaphorical Boxes That Bind Us” on Amazon, Target, or BetsyPepine.com. Connect on social at @BetsyPepine.
Get ready to break free from obstacles and live life on your terms!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cassandra (00:50):
Good day out there to all my listeners, and I'd like
to welcome you to Is Your Wayand Your Way podcast.
And for those new listeners outthere, I'd like to introduce
myself to you.
I am your host.
My name is Cassandra CrawleyMayo.
And also, you, many of you areaware that this podcast is
really about self-improvement.
I would say personal, personaldevelopment.
(01:12):
And I always have a prayerprior to any of my episodes that
something said by a guest willmotivate you to pivot and do
what it is that's going toenable you to start living your
best life on your terms.
So today, on is your way inyour way, I'm gonna pull back
(01:33):
the curtains on how to overcomebarriers, redefine success on
your terms, and learn that thereal measure of achievement
isn't just the size of yourportfolio, it's the size of your
impact.
So, what beliefs you need tobreak to build that life, you
(01:53):
you are called to live.
Stay tuned, you're about tofind out.
I'd like to introduce myspecial guest to you, and her
name is Betsy Pepine, Pepine,Pepine, Pepine, Pippee, Pippee.
I just asked her how topronounce her last name, and I
didn't get it right, but butthat's kind of okay.
(02:14):
I got it now.
I'd like to welcome you to IsYour Way in Your Way.
Oh, thank you.
I'm very happy to be here,Cassandra.
Yeah, you know, um, yourjourney kind of mirrors the
mission of this show, and it'sall about overcoming personal
and professional barriers tocreate the life of purpose.
And also, it you even thoughyou rose to the top, wasn't just
(02:39):
about business savvy, it tookcourage for you to step out of
your comfort zone of willingnessto serve others, and I just
want to applaud you for thatbecause you're just living proof
that when you remove thoselimits you place on yourself,
you can impact lives on amassive scale.
So, kudos to you.
(03:00):
Kudos, thank you.
Sure, I'm gonna read a littlebit of your bio just so my
listeners understand whatqualifies you to talk about.
And our topic today is this manhow to dismantle the boxes that
no longer serve you.
So, Betsy is a best-sellingauthor, serial entrepreneur,
(03:23):
powerhouse in real estate, whosebrokerage, her she has a
reality company, has repeatedlyranked among the nation's
fastest growing privatecompanies and top producing real
estate teams.
She is endorsed by the giantlike Barbara Cochran and Dave
(03:45):
Ramsey.
And for you, no Barbara, whowas on a Shark Tank, and we all
know who Dave Ramsey is, thefinancial whiz.
Uh, Betsy's leadership extendedbeyond her business.
She's the founder of Pipping,Pipping, Pipping, Pipping gives,
(04:05):
a nonprofit dedicated tohelping at-risk families secure
housing.
Also owns a title company, realestate school, a property
management firm.
She combines businessbrilliance with a heart for
service, showing that successand significance can and should
coexist.
(04:25):
So, Betsy, let's tell ourlisteners who who are you?
Tell us about your background alittle bit, your backstory.
Who is Betsy?
Betsy (04:36):
Oh, that's a tough one.
Um, I describe myself as awonderer, somebody who's just
insanely curious about allthings, um, constantly wanting
to learn and grow um internally,externally, through other
people.
Um so that's how I woulddescribe myself.
(04:59):
Uh, first and foremost, interms of roles, I'm a mom,
single mom of two incredibledaughters, um, a daughter, uh a
sister.
But I am an entrepreneur.
Um, I it was just definitely asecond career for me.
I started out in a in a careerin the pharmaceutical industry
in the marketing um sector, andI did that for almost a decade,
(05:23):
and really was not my passion atall, but it served a lot of
other needs for me at the time.
Okay.
You know, and then throughthrough a unexpected divorce and
layoff at roughly the sametime, I decided that God was
trying to tell me that I was noton the right path and perhaps I
should pursue something else,and um and decided to pursue
(05:45):
real estate, which is somethingthat I'd always had an interest
in.
And so I did that.
I started 20 years ago and Ijust started building honestly
companies after that.
I started my brokerage, then Istarted a mortgage company, I
started a title company, Istarted a real estate school,
started a property managementcompany, and most importantly,
started a nonprofit that servesthe cost-burdened families in
(06:09):
our area with their housingneeds.
Cassandra (06:13):
Wow, you've done a lot.
Let me ask you, did yourbackstory growing up have
anything to do with what you'recurrently doing?
Betsy (06:21):
Yes, it did in a in a roundabout way.
Um, yeah, I mean, I my back myfamily of origin is um heavily
into uh the healthcare industry,and I had a lot of pressure um
to enter that industry.
And so my sisters and I allwent to the same college.
(06:42):
We all were pre-med.
We all worked alongside ourfathers in our summers, um,
helping him and his colleagues.
And so that was just expected.
And so, and that's why Ipursued the path that I did um
out of college.
I decided I knew I didn't wantto be a physician that would not
have spoken to my soul, but Idid stay in the pharmaceutical
industry to stay in thehealthcare space.
(07:03):
Um, so so yeah, so that partcontributed to where I am today.
Um, I think I got reallyfrustrated because I felt like I
was at that time, you know,living somebody else's life, not
mine.
You know, I was living somebodyelse's um expectations of me
(07:24):
and not really pursuing what Iwanted to pursue.
And as is often the case,sometimes our greatest um
setbacks are our greatestopportunities for growth.
And I think it was because Ihad the setback of a divorce as
well as being laid off of acorporate job, it made me
reevaluate my life and thedirection I was headed and made
(07:45):
some significant changes so thatI would be leading a more uh a
life that was more parallel towhat fulfilled me and made me
happy, but made my heart sing.
Cassandra (07:56):
Yeah.
Um yeah, yeah, I like thatbecause many of my listeners
today are unhappy or not reallydoing what they want to do, but
yet uh like many of us will doprobably what our parents wanted
us to do.
I know individuals personallyof that, and that's not it.
(08:18):
So, what was it about you orwhat is it that enabled you to
pivot?
I'm not saying you didn'tstruggle in doing so, yeah, but
just something that perhaps willhelp my listeners understand.
Well, how did you do that?
Was that this was this in yourDNA?
Were you rebellious because ofwhat I mean?
What was really happening?
Betsy (08:40):
Um, I don't know.
I I do think I was probablyconsidered, I am definitely
considered now the black sheepof the family because I am the
only one that's divorced, um,and I'm the only one that's not
a physician.
Cassandra (08:53):
Okay.
Betsy (08:54):
Um and I honestly don't think I think I'd still be in
the pharmaceutical industry hadI not had those two experiences.
So I'm so blessed to have hadthose two experiences because
I'm so much happier now than Iever would have been in pharma.
I was staying in that rolebecause I liked the income.
I liked the I did like thequality of life.
(09:15):
Like I didn't have to do a lotof um, I didn't have to do a lot
of work outside of the nine tofive, and that was important to
me because I had two very youngdaughters at the time.
So I liked the quality of life,I liked they they they allowed
you to travel, which I liked,and I liked the income, but I
was not passionate about thejob.
Okay.
You know, and life is so shortnot to be passionate about what
(09:38):
you're doing on a day-to-daybasis.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think I got to the pointwhere it's like, what do else,
what else do I have to lose?
I lost my job, I lost mymarriage.
You know, that so pivoting thenseemed, I think, a lot more
doable than had I not had hadthose two experiences.
So, relatively speaking, thatwas an easy pivot.
(09:59):
Okay, yeah, okay, yeah.
Cassandra (10:01):
And I I like that because uh, you know, we all
know life is tough, you know,and a lot of times we we have
choices.
Uh we could be bitter aboutwhat happened to us in our life,
uh, be better.
And you chose that, not reallyknowing what the future would
look like, but you knew thatwhat do I have to lose?
(10:23):
Why not?
Right.
Betsy (10:26):
Why not?
And I mean, I did have a plan,and I think it helps to have a
plan.
So I gave myself two years.
I I had I had enough of a nestegg that I could live very
meagerly for two years and beokay.
And so I thought, okay, if itdoesn't, if I haven't made it on
my own in two years, then I'llgo.
And my plan B was to go to thelarge healthcare facility in our
town and work in theirmarketing department.
(10:47):
But fortunately, I didn't haveto do plan B.
Plan A worked out.
Cassandra (10:51):
Okay, good.
Excellent, excellent.
Uh, they always say sometimesif you do have a plan B, you can
kind of fall back, but justhaving that one plan, it's like,
okay, I gotta do this becausethis is my only my only plan.
So good for you.
Uh Betsy, I I've noticed thatthere was a point in your career
(11:12):
where you you had the kids, yousaid the business, you've been
in real estate, you were in ayou were in a good place, but
there were points in your lifeyou were unhappy.
Okay, so around the age of 40.
Yeah.
Um, did that have anything todo with the divorce?
The uh okay, what what were youunhappy about?
(11:34):
What was going on?
Betsy (11:35):
Yeah, that was um the realization that I felt like I
had worked all my life and I hadI had I was I am very blessed
with business success.
And I and I understand that.
Um, and I think that's whattook me so long to even
acknowledge to myself that Iwasn't happy because I think on
paper, if you looked at my life,it it it looked good, and it
(12:01):
almost to me was theirresponsible to even suggest I
wasn't happy, yeah.
But I wasn't, and so I had toget real with myself.
Like, you know, 40, I thinkmaybe is a maybe that number, I
don't know, but just makes youstart to reevaluate things and
you recognize life doesn'tcontinue forever, and do I want
to continue living this way?
And I felt like I had gonethrough life just checking off
(12:24):
all the boxes that that almostlike the definition of success.
If I do X, Y, and Z, then I'llbe happy.
And so yes, I was successful inthis the eyes of society, but I
wasn't happy.
Cassandra (12:37):
Yes.
Betsy (12:38):
And so that led me on this journey that and I'm still
on the journey.
Um, and it involved therapy,like one-on-one therapy.
It involved a ton of reading,bioenergetic work, EMDR,
meditation, yoga, um, just awhole bunch of different
(12:59):
modalities, journaling, and Iwhich I still participate in
these things.
And it just led me to thisrealization that my source of
unhappiness was because I invarious aspects of my life, I
had felt and sometimesoccasionally still feel
contained.
I feel like I'm in these boxesthat I didn't necessarily ask to
(13:23):
be in, but I found myself in,that perhaps maybe served me at
some point in my life, but nolonger serve me now, or maybe
never serve me, but now I'm justrealizing that they never
served me.
And I began a process ofextricating myself from those
boxes that no longer serve me.
But that was the source of myunhappiness.
The boxes could be, you know,my family of origin box.
(13:46):
I'm so blessed to be in thefamily that I'm in.
Everyone has, you know, there'salways great things about being
a part of someone's family.
But there's also there's alsonegative things.
And, you know, for me, justthis huge weight of feeling
inferior because I wasn't in themedical profession, or you
know, that I'm raised in a veryCatholic family, yet I'm the
(14:08):
only one that's divorced.
Um, or you know, there's thereare certain expectations that we
all face just based on ourgender.
And they may not fit my mymold.
So anyway, so those are some ofthe boxes that we face.
But there's I mean, thousandsof boxes.
You look at them, you startseeing them everywhere once you
(14:29):
become aware of them.
But trying to identify whichboxes were no longer serving me
and why was I choosing to stayin boxes that no longer serve
me, recognizing it was realfear-based, you know, fear of
failure, fear of loss, fear offinancial insecurity, um, fear
of, you know, being demoted insocial status, you know, all
(14:50):
these ego-based things.
And then really addressingthose head on with myself.
I found journaling to be veryhelpful, writing things down.
Okay, Betsy, worst casescenario, what could happen?
Um, worst case scenario doesn'tlook so bad when it's on paper.
Um, and redefining what failureis.
Failure, I realize, is justanother box, and I can choose to
(15:11):
have it in my life or not haveit in my life, and so I banned
that box from my life years ago.
You know, so it was just thatprocess of un understanding
which boxes are holding me backand how do I eliminate eliminate
those in my life, right?
Cassandra (15:25):
And that was a process, like you said.
Oh, yeah, we're still on it.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And emdr.
Tell my my listeners what thatmeans, EMDR.
Betsy (15:36):
EMDR, I don't honestly don't remember what it stands
for.
The it's an acronym forsomething, but it's basically
rewiring.
Um it's a it's a methodologythat therapists use with their
patients to help um unblocktrauma that can be trapped in
your body.
(15:56):
And so it's um actually nowthat you say I think it it's the
eye, it's I think the E is Iand R is rapid, but it's this
science.
The science behind it isbasically this rapid eye
movement they have found somehowrewires your brain to process
events in a more positive way.
(16:17):
And so you can you can reframethings, it's kind of like in
your subconscious.
I mean, I'm not a psychologicalpsychologist, so I would you
know Google it, but basicallyit's helping you rewire events
(16:50):
in your past so that they nolonger hold you back.
Cassandra (16:54):
Okay, it's it's an eye movement to sense the
sensitization and reprocessing.
Yes, that's yeah, yeah, okay,yeah, okay.
Yeah, that that's I I've heardindividuals go through that
process and obviously it helped,but obviously, like you said,
we're still here and it's aprocess, yeah, and we'll
(17:34):
continue to be a workingprocess, but yet you are still
in a different place, and that'swhat what what you needed, you
realize that.
Yeah, yeah.
So um could you tell me so yourediscover your joy, so to
speak, just all those thingsthat you went through.
(17:54):
Yeah, is there a differencebetween joy versus happy?
Betsy (17:59):
Yes, I think so.
Yes, and I felt like I was justkind of soldiering through
life.
Cassandra (18:04):
Uh-huh.
Right.
Just striving, not thriving.
Betsy (18:08):
Right.
And um, yes, I absolutely Ithink that happiness for me is
an emotion.
So it's like it's transitory,it's it's fleeing.
Whereas joy is a state ofbeing.
That's how I look at it in mymind.
Okay.
And it's I actually joy issomething that I track every I
have a daily tracker and I um Itrack, I track different things
(18:32):
I want to create in my life andmanifest in my life, and joy is
one of them.
And so at the end of each day,I I'm accountable to was my day
joyful.
Um certain people, you know,yes, I could have been happy one
moment, not happy one moment,but overall was was my day
joyous.
And really, you know, Iremember um years ago, I took a
(18:54):
personality profiling thing atchurch, and it was something
that I had not, I mean, I'vedone a lot of personality
profiles.
This was something totallydifferent, but anyway, you
basically got a flag for thecountry that you resided in.
And I resided in the controlcountry, the country of the
control.
That's where I live.
Yeah, right.
Well, there's another groupthat resides in the joy country,
(19:16):
and it was so enlightening tome because there were people in
that audience that every day,the first question they ask
themselves when they wake up is,How will I have joy today?
And prior to being in thatroom, that question had never
(19:37):
been one I asked myself.
Yeah.
Never.
And I was like, wow, there arepeople that that is their goal
every day.
How am I gonna have joy andexperience joy?
Yeah, um, so having to likegetting to reframe that, it's
just so it's almost like a kidin the candy store.
I mean, it's theirs for it'sthere for your taking.
(19:58):
Um, so yeah, so I think joy isis kind of a is a state of
being, whereas happiness to meis more kind of transitory and
yeah, yeah.
Cassandra (20:08):
My thing is I'd rather have joy if I had to
select happiness, because Ialways see happiness as a
happening.
You know, I remember the day Igot married, I was happy.
Yeah, okay.
That was it, right?
Yeah, I got my dream car, I washappy.
Yeah, it doesn't last forever.
So, and I think joy ispriceless, like peace is
(20:31):
priceless.
Yeah, so so I I like what yousaid.
Betsy (20:35):
Um, there's a there's a great book that just came out
called Joy Span.
You know, there's this, there'syou know, we have lifespan,
right?
And then the next stage ofpeople they're they're looking
at health span.
Health is your quality of lifeduring your life, because why is
it why is it great to have umlongevity if you're not healthy?
(20:56):
Then a third component is joyspan.
Why, why have a healthy andlong life if you're not having
joy?
So, how do you create how doyou create a long, healthy life
filled with joy?
Cassandra (21:10):
Right, right.
Excuse me, but that was Max.
My listeners know who Max says,and he's not in the room, but
he just he always wants to be apart of the podcast,
unfortunately.
Um, what strategies have helpedyou maintain your resilience
and fuel and your leadership?
(21:32):
Success.
Because you're you'resuccessful now.
And you got that other lifestuff going on.
Yeah.
But you have to think about it.
You have been resilient.
Betsy (21:43):
Yes, I I definitely have.
And it's definitely somethingthat I've worked on.
Um so redefining failure, sounderstanding so truly, I don't
I don't believe failure existsin my life.
It doesn't mean I geteverything I want and that
everything works out the way Iwant.
It means that even if somethingdoesn't work out the way I
(22:04):
want, I know I'll have to pivot.
I know I've pivoted before whenI didn't want to, and it's
worked out just fine.
And I'll have learned somethingvery valuable that I get to
take with me for the rest of mylife.
Cassandra (22:19):
Okay.
Betsy (22:19):
So that's worst case scenario.
So that to me is not failure.
And so I feel like that freesme up.
So when I'm evaluating, shouldI do something?
Should I make a move?
Should I whatever the whateverI'm questioning, where I think a
lot of people are held back byfear of failure.
I am not, because I don'tbelieve in that, that does just
(22:41):
doesn't exist.
Okay.
Um, I think the other thingthat's really helped me is it
was a process, it and it startedyears ago, but I stopped taking
anything personally.
Anything.
I mean, any any anybody'sopinions of me, whether they're
(23:03):
good or bad, have nothing to dowith me.
So even when somebody gives mea compliment, while I'm gracious
and say thank you, I know, Itruly know internally that has
nothing to do with me.
That's their perception of me,that's the way they were raised,
that's what they value, hasnothing to do with me.
Yeah.
(23:23):
And that frees you up becauseyou become impervious to what
others think of you.
So again, that that fear of, ohmy gosh, how are other people
going to perceive me if Xhappens?
That that's helped me become alot more resilient.
Cassandra (23:36):
Yeah, that's a great.
Um, I had a professor, and I'llnever forget this.
And and it was a husband-wifeteam, and one of the things they
always said is feedback, butpeople say it's more about the
giver than the receiver.
And I kind of thought aboutthat because you think of
yourself giving someonefeedback, you know, saying
something to someone.
Is it more about it's reallymore about you than it is them?
(24:00):
So I like that mindset thatyou've created to help you
switch over and and rewire andchange the narrative.
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
I want to ask you, but I'mreally impressed.
Uh your business, you're doingwell, I think that's great.
But something else I thinkthat's just as powerful is your
(24:24):
giving back, you know, thispassion to help at-risk
families.
What did I know?
You said when you at home oryou were somewhere, something
happened.
You had something happened whenyou were in Philadelphia or
something like that.
Betsy (24:37):
Yeah, I went to graduate, I went to graduate school in
Philadelphia and I was gettingan MBA.
And just oddly, one of theclasses that you could take for
credit was gutting row homes inWest Philadelphia and rebuilding
them with donated supplies andlabor.
And then we interviewedcost-burdened families and sold
(24:59):
those homes to those families atcost.
Oh, and so I was in my early20s and I could see how a house
impacts the trajectory of thatfamily, the family tree.
I mean, it impacts healthoutcomes, it incacts educational
levels, so many differentmeasures, it impacts more than
(25:22):
just having a roof over yourhead.
And so that stayed with me.
And then when I started um, youknow, getting into real estate,
I'd always given back in otherways, you know, rescue, I'm
still passionate about, but allthese different kind of
incongruent ways I was givingback.
But about probably eight ornine years ago now, I said,
(25:43):
well, how can I if my my goalisn't just to do service, my
goal is to make an impact.
So if you want to make animpact, how can I do that most
effectively?
And I thought, okay, well, one,funnel all of your activities
into one more narrow focus, andtwo, do what you're good at.
I always say stay in your lane.
(26:04):
Well, I'm in real estate, Ilove all things real estate.
So let's give back, make animpact in real estate, and how
best to do that by serving asegment of the population that
needs our services, but willnever be able to use them
through the front door.
Yes.
So that's kind of how that cameto be.
So I created a nonprofit and wehave a partnership with Habitat
(26:26):
for Humanity, and we umfundraise and build houses and
provide those to um, not providethose, they buy them, but we
team them up for success.
Um, we there's educationaltraining on how to maintain a
home, there's educationaltraining on how to maintain a
household budget.
So we're really trying to, youknow, change these families and
(26:48):
their in their family tree withthrough help.
Cassandra (26:51):
Wow, that is major.
And like I said, it's moreblessed to give than receive.
Yeah, and that in itself shouldmake you feel really good about
yourself.
So congratulations to you.
Well, thank you.
Yeah.
Uh well, let me one morequestion because you are in a
better space than you were, youknow.
Um where you are now, whatwould you tell your 30-year-old
(27:21):
self?
Betsy (27:25):
Well, I mean, I would I would tell my 30-year-old self,
because that was right aroundthe time I was getting divorced
with a one and two year old.
And I would tell my I wouldtell my 30-year-old self
everything is gonna be okay.
You know, because that was avery scary time.
Um I would I would tell, and Ihave children who are 27 and 26
(27:48):
now, um, you know, and I wouldsay, and I advocate this to my
agents as well, is as early asyou can to live your life
intentionally, you know, it goesby so quickly, and um just live
every moment intentionally.
That and that includes what youchoose to have your eyes read,
(28:10):
what you're what you choose tohave your ears hear, who you
choose to be around andassociate with.
You know, it's it's allencompassing.
Cassandra (28:18):
It it really is.
Yeah, good, great, greatwisdom.
And you also have your you,like I said, you're an author of
the best-selling book, and thebook is breaking boxes, right?
Yeah, dismantling themetaphorical boxes that bind us.
So tell my listeners how theycan get the book and how would
(28:42):
they be able to get in touchwith you?
Betsy (28:44):
Sure.
So the book is available on allthe major book retailers,
Amazon, Target, any kind ofmajor book retailer.
It's also available on mywebsite, which is my name,
BetsyPapine.com.
And then I'm on all the socialchannels again with my name at
Betsy Pepine.
Cassandra (29:01):
Okay, okay.
Well, Betsy Pepine, finally gotit.
I want to thank you for yourtime, um, your wisdom, and your
candor about, you know, thingsthat you've experienced.
Uh, I think that's veryhelpful.
And I think when we are open,not with everything, but open,
(29:24):
that is a cause fortransformation, you know, and
you gravitate individuals intoyour into your life, so to
speak, because you are not alonein whatever you have been
through.
So just for people to witnessthat and also see your success
and understanding it's notalways about the money, you
(29:47):
know, it's not always about whatsomebody else wants you to do.
This life is short, as youindicated.
And and that's why I alwayspreface it is by saying, live
your best life on your terms.
That's critical.
And a lot of people don't knowwhat that is, but I'm hopeful by
this time um they they kind offiguring it out and
(30:11):
understanding the boxes thatthey're in and they how they
need to dismantle.
And they could do that bypurchasing your book and
listening like this podcastagain.
So, again, thank you so much.
Well, thank you, Cassandra.
I appreciate it.
Sure.
Good day out there to all my listeners, and I'd like
to welcome you to Is Your Wayand Your Way podcast.
And for those new listeners outthere, I'd like to introduce
myself to you.
I am your host.
My name is Cassandra CrawleyMayo.
And also, you, many of you areaware that this podcast is
really about self-improvement.
I would say personal, personaldevelopment.
(01:12):
And I always have a prayerprior to any of my episodes that
something said by a guest willmotivate you to pivot and do
what it is that's going toenable you to start living your
best life on your terms.
So today, on is your way inyour way, I'm gonna pull back
(01:33):
the curtains on how to overcomebarriers, redefine success on
your terms, and learn that thereal measure of achievement
isn't just the size of yourportfolio, it's the size of your
impact.
So, what beliefs you need tobreak to build that life, you
(01:53):
you are called to live.
Stay tuned, you're about tofind out.
I'd like to introduce myspecial guest to you, and her
name is Betsy Pepine, Pepine,Pepine, Pepine, Pippee, Pippee.
I just asked her how topronounce her last name, and I
didn't get it right, but butthat's kind of okay.
(02:14):
I got it now.
I'd like to welcome you to IsYour Way in Your Way.
Oh, thank you.
I'm very happy to be here,Cassandra.
Yeah, you know, um, yourjourney kind of mirrors the
mission of this show, and it'sall about overcoming personal
and professional barriers tocreate the life of purpose.
And also, it you even thoughyou rose to the top, wasn't just
(02:39):
about business savvy, it tookcourage for you to step out of
your comfort zone of willingnessto serve others, and I just
want to applaud you for thatbecause you're just living proof
that when you remove thoselimits you place on yourself,
you can impact lives on amassive scale.
So, kudos to you.
(03:00):
Kudos, thank you.
Sure, I'm gonna read a littlebit of your bio just so my
listeners understand whatqualifies you to talk about.
And our topic today is this manhow to dismantle the boxes that
no longer serve you.
So, Betsy is a best-sellingauthor, serial entrepreneur,
(03:23):
powerhouse in real estate, whosebrokerage, her she has a
reality company, has repeatedlyranked among the nation's
fastest growing privatecompanies and top producing real
estate teams.
She is endorsed by the giantlike Barbara Cochran and Dave
(03:45):
Ramsey.
And for you, no Barbara, whowas on a Shark Tank, and we all
know who Dave Ramsey is, thefinancial whiz.
Uh, Betsy's leadership extendedbeyond her business.
She's the founder of Pipping,Pipping, Pipping, Pipping gives,
(04:05):
a nonprofit dedicated tohelping at-risk families secure
housing.
Also owns a title company, realestate school, a property
management firm.
She combines businessbrilliance with a heart for
service, showing that successand significance can and should
coexist.
(04:25):
So, Betsy, let's tell ourlisteners who who are you?
Tell us about your background alittle bit, your backstory.
Who is Betsy?
Betsy (04:36):
Oh, that's a tough one.
Um, I describe myself as awonderer, somebody who's just
insanely curious about allthings, um, constantly wanting
to learn and grow um internally,externally, through other
people.
Um so that's how I woulddescribe myself.
(04:59):
Uh, first and foremost, interms of roles, I'm a mom,
single mom of two incredibledaughters, um, a daughter, uh a
sister.
But I am an entrepreneur.
Um, I it was just definitely asecond career for me.
I started out in a in a careerin the pharmaceutical industry
in the marketing um sector, andI did that for almost a decade,
(05:23):
and really was not my passion atall, but it served a lot of
other needs for me at the time.
Okay.
You know, and then throughthrough a unexpected divorce and
layoff at roughly the sametime, I decided that God was
trying to tell me that I was noton the right path and perhaps I
should pursue something else,and um and decided to pursue
(05:45):
real estate, which is somethingthat I'd always had an interest
in.
And so I did that.
I started 20 years ago and Ijust started building honestly
companies after that.
I started my brokerage, then Istarted a mortgage company, I
started a title company, Istarted a real estate school,
started a property managementcompany, and most importantly,
started a nonprofit that servesthe cost-burdened families in
(06:09):
our area with their housingneeds.
Cassandra (06:13):
Wow, you've done a lot.
Let me ask you, did yourbackstory growing up have
anything to do with what you'recurrently doing?
Betsy (06:21):
Yes, it did in a in a roundabout way.
Um, yeah, I mean, I my back myfamily of origin is um heavily
into uh the healthcare industry,and I had a lot of pressure um
to enter that industry.
And so my sisters and I allwent to the same college.
(06:42):
We all were pre-med.
We all worked alongside ourfathers in our summers, um,
helping him and his colleagues.
And so that was just expected.
And so, and that's why Ipursued the path that I did um
out of college.
I decided I knew I didn't wantto be a physician that would not
have spoken to my soul, but Idid stay in the pharmaceutical
industry to stay in thehealthcare space.
(07:03):
Um, so so yeah, so that partcontributed to where I am today.
Um, I think I got reallyfrustrated because I felt like I
was at that time, you know,living somebody else's life, not
mine.
You know, I was living somebodyelse's um expectations of me
(07:24):
and not really pursuing what Iwanted to pursue.
And as is often the case,sometimes our greatest um
setbacks are our greatestopportunities for growth.
And I think it was because Ihad the setback of a divorce as
well as being laid off of acorporate job, it made me
reevaluate my life and thedirection I was headed and made
(07:45):
some significant changes so thatI would be leading a more uh a
life that was more parallel towhat fulfilled me and made me
happy, but made my heart sing.
Cassandra (07:56):
Yeah.
Um yeah, yeah, I like thatbecause many of my listeners
today are unhappy or not reallydoing what they want to do, but
yet uh like many of us will doprobably what our parents wanted
us to do.
I know individuals personallyof that, and that's not it.
(08:18):
So, what was it about you orwhat is it that enabled you to
pivot?
I'm not saying you didn'tstruggle in doing so, yeah, but
just something that perhaps willhelp my listeners understand.
Well, how did you do that?
Was that this was this in yourDNA?
Were you rebellious because ofwhat I mean?
What was really happening?
Betsy (08:40):
Um, I don't know.
I I do think I was probablyconsidered, I am definitely
considered now the black sheepof the family because I am the
only one that's divorced, um,and I'm the only one that's not
a physician.
Cassandra (08:53):
Okay.
Betsy (08:54):
Um and I honestly don't think I think I'd still be in
the pharmaceutical industry hadI not had those two experiences.
So I'm so blessed to have hadthose two experiences because
I'm so much happier now than Iever would have been in pharma.
I was staying in that rolebecause I liked the income.
I liked the I did like thequality of life.
(09:15):
Like I didn't have to do a lotof um, I didn't have to do a lot
of work outside of the nine tofive, and that was important to
me because I had two very youngdaughters at the time.
So I liked the quality of life,I liked they they they allowed
you to travel, which I liked,and I liked the income, but I
was not passionate about thejob.
Okay.
You know, and life is so shortnot to be passionate about what
(09:38):
you're doing on a day-to-daybasis.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think I got to the pointwhere it's like, what do else,
what else do I have to lose?
I lost my job, I lost mymarriage.
You know, that so pivoting thenseemed, I think, a lot more
doable than had I not had hadthose two experiences.
So, relatively speaking, thatwas an easy pivot.
(09:59):
Okay, yeah, okay, yeah.
Cassandra (10:01):
And I I like that because uh, you know, we all
know life is tough, you know,and a lot of times we we have
choices.
Uh we could be bitter aboutwhat happened to us in our life,
uh, be better.
And you chose that, not reallyknowing what the future would
look like, but you knew thatwhat do I have to lose?
(10:23):
Why not?
Right.
Betsy (10:26):
Why not?
And I mean, I did have a plan,and I think it helps to have a
plan.
So I gave myself two years.
I I had I had enough of a nestegg that I could live very
meagerly for two years and beokay.
And so I thought, okay, if itdoesn't, if I haven't made it on
my own in two years, then I'llgo.
And my plan B was to go to thelarge healthcare facility in our
town and work in theirmarketing department.
(10:47):
But fortunately, I didn't haveto do plan B.
Plan A worked out.
Cassandra (10:51):
Okay, good.
Excellent, excellent.
Uh, they always say sometimesif you do have a plan B, you can
kind of fall back, but justhaving that one plan, it's like,
okay, I gotta do this becausethis is my only my only plan.
So good for you.
Uh Betsy, I I've noticed thatthere was a point in your career
(11:12):
where you you had the kids, yousaid the business, you've been
in real estate, you were in ayou were in a good place, but
there were points in your lifeyou were unhappy.
Okay, so around the age of 40.
Yeah.
Um, did that have anything todo with the divorce?
The uh okay, what what were youunhappy about?
(11:34):
What was going on?
Betsy (11:35):
Yeah, that was um the realization that I felt like I
had worked all my life and I hadI had I was I am very blessed
with business success.
And I and I understand that.
Um, and I think that's whattook me so long to even
acknowledge to myself that Iwasn't happy because I think on
paper, if you looked at my life,it it it looked good, and it
(12:01):
almost to me was theirresponsible to even suggest I
wasn't happy, yeah.
But I wasn't, and so I had toget real with myself.
Like, you know, 40, I thinkmaybe is a maybe that number, I
don't know, but just makes youstart to reevaluate things and
you recognize life doesn'tcontinue forever, and do I want
to continue living this way?
And I felt like I had gonethrough life just checking off
(12:24):
all the boxes that that almostlike the definition of success.
If I do X, Y, and Z, then I'llbe happy.
And so yes, I was successful inthis the eyes of society, but I
wasn't happy.
Cassandra (12:37):
Yes.
Betsy (12:38):
And so that led me on this journey that and I'm still
on the journey.
Um, and it involved therapy,like one-on-one therapy.
It involved a ton of reading,bioenergetic work, EMDR,
meditation, yoga, um, just awhole bunch of different
(12:59):
modalities, journaling, and Iwhich I still participate in
these things.
And it just led me to thisrealization that my source of
unhappiness was because I invarious aspects of my life, I
had felt and sometimesoccasionally still feel
contained.
I feel like I'm in these boxesthat I didn't necessarily ask to
(13:23):
be in, but I found myself in,that perhaps maybe served me at
some point in my life, but nolonger serve me now, or maybe
never serve me, but now I'm justrealizing that they never
served me.
And I began a process ofextricating myself from those
boxes that no longer serve me.
But that was the source of myunhappiness.
The boxes could be, you know,my family of origin box.
(13:46):
I'm so blessed to be in thefamily that I'm in.
Everyone has, you know, there'salways great things about being
a part of someone's family.
But there's also there's alsonegative things.
And, you know, for me, justthis huge weight of feeling
inferior because I wasn't in themedical profession, or you
know, that I'm raised in a veryCatholic family, yet I'm the
(14:08):
only one that's divorced.
Um, or you know, there's thereare certain expectations that we
all face just based on ourgender.
And they may not fit my mymold.
So anyway, so those are some ofthe boxes that we face.
But there's I mean, thousandsof boxes.
You look at them, you startseeing them everywhere once you
(14:29):
become aware of them.
But trying to identify whichboxes were no longer serving me
and why was I choosing to stayin boxes that no longer serve
me, recognizing it was realfear-based, you know, fear of
failure, fear of loss, fear offinancial insecurity, um, fear
of, you know, being demoted insocial status, you know, all
(14:50):
these ego-based things.
And then really addressingthose head on with myself.
I found journaling to be veryhelpful, writing things down.
Okay, Betsy, worst casescenario, what could happen?
Um, worst case scenario doesn'tlook so bad when it's on paper.
Um, and redefining what failureis.
Failure, I realize, is justanother box, and I can choose to
(15:11):
have it in my life or not haveit in my life, and so I banned
that box from my life years ago.
You know, so it was just thatprocess of un understanding
which boxes are holding me backand how do I eliminate eliminate
those in my life, right?
Cassandra (15:25):
And that was a process, like you said.
Oh, yeah, we're still on it.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And emdr.
Tell my my listeners what thatmeans, EMDR.
Betsy (15:36):
EMDR, I don't honestly don't remember what it stands
for.
The it's an acronym forsomething, but it's basically
rewiring.
Um it's a it's a methodologythat therapists use with their
patients to help um unblocktrauma that can be trapped in
your body.
(15:56):
And so it's um actually nowthat you say I think it it's the
eye, it's I think the E is Iand R is rapid, but it's this
science.
The science behind it isbasically this rapid eye
movement they have found somehowrewires your brain to process
events in a more positive way.
(16:17):
And so you can you can reframethings, it's kind of like in
your subconscious.
I mean, I'm not a psychologicalpsychologist, so I would you
know Google it, but basicallyit's helping you rewire events
(16:50):
in your past so that they nolonger hold you back.
Cassandra (16:54):
Okay, it's it's an eye movement to sense the
sensitization and reprocessing.
Yes, that's yeah, yeah, okay,yeah, okay.
Yeah, that that's I I've heardindividuals go through that
process and obviously it helped,but obviously, like you said,
we're still here and it's aprocess, yeah, and we'll
(17:34):
continue to be a workingprocess, but yet you are still
in a different place, and that'swhat what what you needed, you
realize that.
Yeah, yeah.
So um could you tell me so yourediscover your joy, so to
speak, just all those thingsthat you went through.
(17:54):
Yeah, is there a differencebetween joy versus happy?
Betsy (17:59):
Yes, I think so.
Yes, and I felt like I was justkind of soldiering through
life.
Cassandra (18:04):
Uh-huh.
Right.
Just striving, not thriving.
Betsy (18:08):
Right.
And um, yes, I absolutely Ithink that happiness for me is
an emotion.
So it's like it's transitory,it's it's fleeing.
Whereas joy is a state ofbeing.
That's how I look at it in mymind.
Okay.
And it's I actually joy issomething that I track every I
have a daily tracker and I um Itrack, I track different things
(18:32):
I want to create in my life andmanifest in my life, and joy is
one of them.
And so at the end of each day,I I'm accountable to was my day
joyful.
Um certain people, you know,yes, I could have been happy one
moment, not happy one moment,but overall was was my day
joyous.
And really, you know, Iremember um years ago, I took a
(18:54):
personality profiling thing atchurch, and it was something
that I had not, I mean, I'vedone a lot of personality
profiles.
This was something totallydifferent, but anyway, you
basically got a flag for thecountry that you resided in.
And I resided in the controlcountry, the country of the
control.
That's where I live.
Yeah, right.
Well, there's another groupthat resides in the joy country,
(19:16):
and it was so enlightening tome because there were people in
that audience that every day,the first question they ask
themselves when they wake up is,How will I have joy today?
And prior to being in thatroom, that question had never
(19:37):
been one I asked myself.
Yeah.
Never.
And I was like, wow, there arepeople that that is their goal
every day.
How am I gonna have joy andexperience joy?
Yeah, um, so having to likegetting to reframe that, it's
just so it's almost like a kidin the candy store.
I mean, it's theirs for it'sthere for your taking.
(19:58):
Um, so yeah, so I think joy isis kind of a is a state of
being, whereas happiness to meis more kind of transitory and
yeah, yeah.
Cassandra (20:08):
My thing is I'd rather have joy if I had to
select happiness, because Ialways see happiness as a
happening.
You know, I remember the day Igot married, I was happy.
Yeah, okay.
That was it, right?
Yeah, I got my dream car, I washappy.
Yeah, it doesn't last forever.
So, and I think joy ispriceless, like peace is
(20:31):
priceless.
Yeah, so so I I like what yousaid.
Betsy (20:35):
Um, there's a there's a great book that just came out
called Joy Span.
You know, there's this, there'syou know, we have lifespan,
right?
And then the next stage ofpeople they're they're looking
at health span.
Health is your quality of lifeduring your life, because why is
it why is it great to have umlongevity if you're not healthy?
(20:56):
Then a third component is joyspan.
Why, why have a healthy andlong life if you're not having
joy?
So, how do you create how doyou create a long, healthy life
filled with joy?
Cassandra (21:10):
Right, right.
Excuse me, but that was Max.
My listeners know who Max says,and he's not in the room, but
he just he always wants to be apart of the podcast,
unfortunately.
Um, what strategies have helpedyou maintain your resilience
and fuel and your leadership?
(21:32):
Success.
Because you're you'resuccessful now.
And you got that other lifestuff going on.
Yeah.
But you have to think about it.
You have been resilient.
Betsy (21:43):
Yes, I I definitely have.
And it's definitely somethingthat I've worked on.
Um so redefining failure, sounderstanding so truly, I don't
I don't believe failure existsin my life.
It doesn't mean I geteverything I want and that
everything works out the way Iwant.
It means that even if somethingdoesn't work out the way I
(22:04):
want, I know I'll have to pivot.
I know I've pivoted before whenI didn't want to, and it's
worked out just fine.
And I'll have learned somethingvery valuable that I get to
take with me for the rest of mylife.
Cassandra (22:19):
Okay.
Betsy (22:19):
So that's worst case scenario.
So that to me is not failure.
And so I feel like that freesme up.
So when I'm evaluating, shouldI do something?
Should I make a move?
Should I whatever the whateverI'm questioning, where I think a
lot of people are held back byfear of failure.
I am not, because I don'tbelieve in that, that does just
(22:41):
doesn't exist.
Okay.
Um, I think the other thingthat's really helped me is it
was a process, it and it startedyears ago, but I stopped taking
anything personally.
Anything.
I mean, any any anybody'sopinions of me, whether they're
(23:03):
good or bad, have nothing to dowith me.
So even when somebody gives mea compliment, while I'm gracious
and say thank you, I know, Itruly know internally that has
nothing to do with me.
That's their perception of me,that's the way they were raised,
that's what they value, hasnothing to do with me.
Yeah.
(23:23):
And that frees you up becauseyou become impervious to what
others think of you.
So again, that that fear of, ohmy gosh, how are other people
going to perceive me if Xhappens?
That that's helped me become alot more resilient.
Cassandra (23:36):
Yeah, that's a great.
Um, I had a professor, and I'llnever forget this.
And and it was a husband-wifeteam, and one of the things they
always said is feedback, butpeople say it's more about the
giver than the receiver.
And I kind of thought aboutthat because you think of
yourself giving someonefeedback, you know, saying
something to someone.
Is it more about it's reallymore about you than it is them?
(24:00):
So I like that mindset thatyou've created to help you
switch over and and rewire andchange the narrative.
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
I want to ask you, but I'mreally impressed.
Uh your business, you're doingwell, I think that's great.
But something else I thinkthat's just as powerful is your
(24:24):
giving back, you know, thispassion to help at-risk
families.
What did I know?
You said when you at home oryou were somewhere, something
happened.
You had something happened whenyou were in Philadelphia or
something like that.
Betsy (24:37):
Yeah, I went to graduate, I went to graduate school in
Philadelphia and I was gettingan MBA.
And just oddly, one of theclasses that you could take for
credit was gutting row homes inWest Philadelphia and rebuilding
them with donated supplies andlabor.
And then we interviewedcost-burdened families and sold
(24:59):
those homes to those families atcost.
Oh, and so I was in my early20s and I could see how a house
impacts the trajectory of thatfamily, the family tree.
I mean, it impacts healthoutcomes, it incacts educational
levels, so many differentmeasures, it impacts more than
(25:22):
just having a roof over yourhead.
And so that stayed with me.
And then when I started um, youknow, getting into real estate,
I'd always given back in otherways, you know, rescue, I'm
still passionate about, but allthese different kind of
incongruent ways I was givingback.
But about probably eight ornine years ago now, I said,
(25:43):
well, how can I if my my goalisn't just to do service, my
goal is to make an impact.
So if you want to make animpact, how can I do that most
effectively?
And I thought, okay, well, one,funnel all of your activities
into one more narrow focus, andtwo, do what you're good at.
I always say stay in your lane.
(26:04):
Well, I'm in real estate, Ilove all things real estate.
So let's give back, make animpact in real estate, and how
best to do that by serving asegment of the population that
needs our services, but willnever be able to use them
through the front door.
Yes.
So that's kind of how that cameto be.
So I created a nonprofit and wehave a partnership with Habitat
(26:26):
for Humanity, and we umfundraise and build houses and
provide those to um, not providethose, they buy them, but we
team them up for success.
Um, we there's educationaltraining on how to maintain a
home, there's educationaltraining on how to maintain a
household budget.
So we're really trying to, youknow, change these families and
(26:48):
their in their family tree withthrough help.
Cassandra (26:51):
Wow, that is major.
And like I said, it's moreblessed to give than receive.
Yeah, and that in itself shouldmake you feel really good about
yourself.
So congratulations to you.
Well, thank you.
Yeah.
Uh well, let me one morequestion because you are in a
better space than you were, youknow.
Um where you are now, whatwould you tell your 30-year-old
(27:21):
self?
Betsy (27:25):
Well, I mean, I would I would tell my 30-year-old self,
because that was right aroundthe time I was getting divorced
with a one and two year old.
And I would tell my I wouldtell my 30-year-old self
everything is gonna be okay.
You know, because that was avery scary time.
Um I would I would tell, and Ihave children who are 27 and 26
(27:48):
now, um, you know, and I wouldsay, and I advocate this to my
agents as well, is as early asyou can to live your life
intentionally, you know, it goesby so quickly, and um just live
every moment intentionally.
That and that includes what youchoose to have your eyes read,
(28:10):
what you're what you choose tohave your ears hear, who you
choose to be around andassociate with.
You know, it's it's allencompassing.
Cassandra (28:18):
It it really is.
Yeah, good, great, greatwisdom.
And you also have your you,like I said, you're an author of
the best-selling book, and thebook is breaking boxes, right?
Yeah, dismantling themetaphorical boxes that bind us.
So tell my listeners how theycan get the book and how would
(28:42):
they be able to get in touchwith you?
Betsy (28:44):
Sure.
So the book is available on allthe major book retailers,
Amazon, Target, any kind ofmajor book retailer.
It's also available on mywebsite, which is my name,
BetsyPapine.com.
And then I'm on all the socialchannels again with my name at
Betsy Pepine.
Cassandra (29:01):
Okay, okay.
Well, Betsy Pepine, finally gotit.
I want to thank you for yourtime, um, your wisdom, and your
candor about, you know, thingsthat you've experienced.
Uh, I think that's veryhelpful.
And I think when we are open,not with everything, but open,
(29:24):
that is a cause fortransformation, you know, and
you gravitate individuals intoyour into your life, so to
speak, because you are not alonein whatever you have been
through.
So just for people to witnessthat and also see your success
and understanding it's notalways about the money, you
(29:47):
know, it's not always about whatsomebody else wants you to do.
This life is short, as youindicated.
And and that's why I alwayspreface it is by saying, live
your best life on your terms.
That's critical.
And a lot of people don't knowwhat that is, but I'm hopeful by
this time um they they kind offiguring it out and
(30:11):
understanding the boxes thatthey're in and they how they
need to dismantle.
And they could do that bypurchasing your book and
listening like this podcastagain.
So, again, thank you so much.
Well, thank you, Cassandra.
I appreciate it.
Sure.
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