July 17, 2025 • 48 mins
Dr. Ebony Stone shares her powerful journey from high-functioning anxiety in corporate America to finding freedom through intentional pauses. She reveals how success became a beautifully decorated mask for her internal struggles until her body forced her to stop.
• Defining success by external achievements and tying identity to being "the smart girl"
• The reality of looking composed on the outside while crumbling on the inside
• How high-functioning anxiety often affects high achievers who appear to have it all together
• The breaking point that led to Dr. Stone's six-month leave from corporate America
• Why "the pause" isn't a vacation but rather hard emotional work and confronting difficult truths
• Physical improvements that came from addressing mental health, including better sleep and lower blood pressure
• The PAUSE framework for incorporating intentional pauses into daily life
• Redefining success on your own terms rather than by worldly standards
Find Dr. Ebony Stone at DrEbonyStone.com and on all social media platforms as @DrEbonyStone. Her book "The Power of the Pause" is available on her website and anywhere books are sold, including as an audiobook narrated by Dr. Stone herself.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cassandra (00:00):
welcome you to Is your Way In your Way podcast.
(00:04):
Actually, for my new listenersout there and I know I have some
and always do but that's thename of my book Is your Way In
your Way and it's aself-discovery guide for women
on how to restore yourself,learn from your experiences and
be your true self again.
This podcast is for individualswho I call stuck.
(00:27):
You're kind of in your waybecause a lot of limiting
beliefs we have self-imposedbarriers, imposter syndrome,
self-sabotage, just a multitudeof things and you've been
wanting to write this book,you've been wanting to start a
podcast, you want to start abusiness, you want to get a new
job.
It's just so many things Getout of a toxic relationship,
(00:50):
just so much stuff that'srolling in your head, ruminating
that it is that you want to do,but yet you're stuck.
You're in your way.
So we talk about topics relatedto what I call self-improvement
, personal development and alsomy prayer is also that when you
(01:11):
listen, when somebody listens tothis podcast whatever has had
you stuck, you will get unstuckby something that you've heard.
And today I'm just super excitedabout my guest today and I say
that because I get it, because Iwas where she was, and the name
(01:31):
of the podcast is the Power ofthe Pause Breaking free from
high functioning anxiety.
Let me bring her back to theorange room.
I'd like to introduce to you DrEbony Stone.
Hi, dr Ebony, how are you today?
Hello, how are you?
Dr. Ebony Stone (01:52):
I'm so excited to be here today.
Cassandra (01:54):
Oh girl, me too.
I'm just super happy.
Thank you for having me.
Absolutely, it's the pleasure,it's all mine.
Now, one of the things that I dobefore we start delving into
the questions, I kind of tell mylisteners give them a little
background, ok, so they can kindof understand why you're
(02:14):
qualified to talk about thepower of the pause.
So one of the things I want toask my listeners, though have
you ever felt like you werecrushing it on the outside?
I mean, you were doingphenomenal on the outside, but
yet you were crumbling on theinside, like people saw you and
(02:35):
thought you had it all together,but on the inside it was like,
oh, it was just.
You guys know what I mean bythat, right?
So like your success was justbeautifully, beautifully,
beautifully decorated mask.
You wear a mask for exhaustion,anxiety and self-doubt.
(02:56):
Now, if any of you are kind ofshaking your head and say, yeah,
yeah, I look good on theoutside, but, boy, on the inside
I am just falling apart, Well,if you're nodding right now,
you're not alone.
My guest today, dr Ebony Stone,knows this struggle all too well
.
She's a powerhouse leader, anentrepreneur and a mental health
(03:18):
advocate.
Dr Stone went from navigatingthe highest level of corporate
America to realizing that highfunctioning Now listen, high
functioning anxiety was runningher life.
In her book, the Power of thePause, she opens up about how
(03:39):
hitting the brakes intentionallycan actually accelerate your
success.
Intentionally can actuallyaccelerate your success.
So what happens when we stoppushing and start pausing?
So, hey guys, so let's dive in.
Dr Ebony, now you had youreducate, now you're a doctor.
So we know that before youreducational journey, like, you
(04:03):
got a PhD in businessadministration, mba from Wayne
State, a bachelor's inmanagement information system
from Oakland University.
So before your educationaljourney, what was life like for
you?
Dr. Ebony Stone (04:21):
You know that's a funny question.
I don't.
I didn't know life withouteducation.
Right From the time I wasprobably two years old, before I
can remember.
I was in school and I stayed inschool.
I went straight through amaster's degree, stopped for a
few years to get married, had acouple of kids and then went
(04:44):
back and did a doctorate.
So and then I worked inlearning and development.
So education was always a partof my life.
I don't know that I really knowlife without education.
I'm blessed, right, I recognizethat I had a childhood that was
unlike many.
You know I have my mom and dadin the home together.
(05:07):
I grew up with my siblings.
My mom has a massive family.
She had 15 sisters and brothers.
I have a ton of cousins.
I had a grandmother, my dad'smom, who lived literally a mile
and a half away.
I had grandmas, you know.
Daily after school I got home,cooked meals.
(05:29):
So I had a great life, right byany standard.
I went to some of the bestschools in the city.
I'm from Detroit.
I went to, you know, some ofthe best schools in the city.
So I had a great life.
But with that life also came alot of pressure.
(05:49):
Right.
You're given these privilegesof going to these schools,
having these things, there's anexpectation of performance and
even if that expectation is notverbal, even if it's not coming
from parents, the world istelling you you need to perform,
like you have no reason not tobe at the top of every single
(06:13):
list.
And even if the world didn'ttell me that, that's how I
internalized OK, like I had beengiven all of these things.
So I needed to perform, youknow, to show to be my ancestors
, wildest dreams, right, and Ihad a great life, but I had to
(06:38):
constantly stay.
I think I attached my identityto the smart girl.
I attached my identity to thesmart girl.
Cassandra (06:44):
Oh, when you ask about education, always a part
of my life, okay, Well, let meask you then, what were your
dreams and aspirations, except,like, going to school?
Dr. Ebony Stone (06:57):
Yeah, Honest to God, my dream was to get
married and have a family andhave a legacy.
Came to work, I didn't reallycare Like, I went to school and
I got a job.
I mean, I got a degree ininformation systems because I
was good at math, right, I wasgood at working with the
(07:20):
computers.
But my dream in life really wasto continue the legacy that my
parents had started.
Family was extremely importantto me.
I wanted to help other peopleand at one point I believed I
shouldn't say I believed.
At one point I was like hey, Iknow, I want to be the executive
right On the highest levels,that's what I said to myself,
(07:44):
but it wasn't.
I wasn't super clear with myself, it wasn't like, oh, in this
industry, doing this thing, itwas just kind of like that's the
next step, that's theexpectation to be at the top of
the list.
And so that's what happened,and I did both simultaneously.
I got married to an amazing man.
I have three beautiful children.
We are still married, ourchildren are still together, and
(08:06):
so that dream, I'm living thatdream, and I also rose to the
highest ranks of corporate, so Iwas able to do those things as
well, and now I get to spend mytime helping others.
So I think about my dreams.
I can say that my dreams havecome true, but it was not
without challenge yes, wow.
Cassandra (08:29):
So that's interesting .
When you said your theexpectations that you, it
sounded like you had of yourself, basically because look at your
family, it was family-oriented,your parents are still together
, you were always in Educationseemed like it was key, it was
important, and also you soundedlike you were hard on yourself.
(08:55):
And I say that because you'relike OK, I want to be this, I
want to do this, I want to getto the highest ranks.
And you did OK, and so I liketo know what did it look like
when you were, gracefully,perhaps, navigating the
corporate world?
Dr. Ebony Stone (09:14):
Yeah, it looked great on the outside and it was
interesting on the inside.
So I have done a number ofthings.
I've done some consulting, I'veworked in some small firms,
I've worked worked in some largefirms and it looked like Ebony,
(09:34):
showing up every day, poisedand ready to take on whatever
the challenge of the day was,whatever the challenge of the
day was.
It was about leadership.
It was about making sure that Iwas an example for all, but as
a Black woman, I carried that.
You got to be an example forall Black people Right, and so I
(09:58):
was showing up with a smile onmy face, even when I wasn't
happy.
I was calculated.
Every move that I made wascalculated.
I was personable, but I didn'tlet too many people into my
personal space.
Relatable but, I, wasn't the oneto, let's say, hang out after
(10:24):
work or get to kind of the workclicks.
Um, I many people would tellyou that I spoke my piece, but,
um, that was the ebony that theyknew.
They didn't know on the insidethat there was a whole lot more
going on.
So that's what it looked on theoutside.
It looked like on the outside.
The higher up I got, the oldermy kids got.
(10:47):
On the inside it was a mess.
Like I will tell you, we wererunning.
Schedules were crazy.
The house looked a mess.
There was always clothes thatneeded to be folded, dishes that
needed to be washed.
There was another event that Ihad to go to to be folded,
dishes that needed to be washed.
There was another event that Ihad to go to.
All of these things had to bedone.
My husband is an entrepreneurand so behind the scenes there
(11:10):
was kind of this whirlwindtornado going on, and then we
step outside and present to theworld and then we come back into
this whirlwind.
Cassandra (11:50):
Kind of what it looked like for, I would say, 15
years or so.
You know, as the're currentlydoing now and we're going to
talk about that, how did youdefine success when you were in
that corporate environment?
What was success?
Dr. Ebony Stone (11:58):
to you, success was measured by, to be quite
honest, money promotions, and Iwent from tying my identity to
education and being a smart girlto tying my identity to leading
(12:21):
large groups of people, toleading large groups of people.
And so, as long as I wasleading a large group of people
and making sure that I had avision in front of them and
guiding them toward that vision,I felt like I was being
successful and to a certainextent I was.
But that's not the fulldefinition of success, as I see
it today, right because andothers saw you as being
(12:45):
successful.
Absolutely, Absolutely.
I can't tell you how manypeople walked into an office and
said I want to do what you do,Tell me how you do it.
And I was thinking you have noidea what's going on Right,
exactly.
Cassandra (13:00):
So, um, what was?
Okay, you had all of that yougot.
It's interesting, becausethat's how we were brought up we
have.
You got married, you had thekids, had the white picket fence
.
You know you had the good job.
You were doing this, you weredoing that, and so what was your
(13:20):
breaking point behind the pauseframework that you're?
Dr. Ebony Stone (13:25):
doing yeah, yeah, great question.
So after 2020,.
So I would say, coming out ofCOVID was a breaking point
because going into COVID Ikicked into what I call
overdrive.
It was a space where I buriedthe feelings that Ebony had and
(13:49):
I made sure that everybody elsewas okay.
I was making sure my husbandwas okay.
He's an entrepreneur, he's acontractor, he couldn't go into
other people's homes right, andI knew sitting still was going
to drive him bonkers.
The kids were at home doingschool.
I wanted to make sure they wereokay, unlike most people who
just put their kids at thedining room table, which is you
(14:09):
know what.
In hindsight, maybe I shouldhave done.
Nope, I emptied my dining room.
I turned it into a school room.
They had desks and beanbags andwhiteboards and all of the
things and I was taking care ofmom, who couldn't be out and
about, and I was making surethat my team was okay.
And I was taking care of mom,who couldn't be out and about,
and I was making sure that myteam was okay.
I was checking on the people,my direct reports, every day.
(14:30):
I had a meeting every singlemorning, cameras on just so I
could look at my staff and inhindsight I was creating more
chaos, but for me it felt like Iwas controlling everything and
so, coming out of that andeasing back into the workplace,
I was trying to make sureeverybody was OK as they were
coming back into the office andall of those things.
(14:51):
And once all of that stopped, Ifound myself in a space where
now all of these emotions couldcome to the surface.
Cassandra (15:01):
Now you had gone back to work.
Yep COVID was over.
Dr. Ebony Stone (15:05):
COVID was over.
Cassandra (15:06):
OK, all right.
Dr. Ebony Stone (15:08):
Things were supposedly back to normal.
We can only bury feelings forso long.
They will come to the surfaceif you do not process them
Somehow someway.
Yep, they are coming out.
And so I was dealing withmedical issues, I was gaining
weight, all of these things, andso I had gone to the doctor and
(15:28):
the doctor said you know, Ireally I couldn't sleep.
She's trying to give memedication to sleep and he said
I really want you to considerthis behavioral health
recommendation.
I really would like for you togo see a therapist.
I said, yeah, yeah, I'm goingto go.
And then when I went back, youknow, a couple of times he told
(15:50):
me.
And so finally I said, you know, I've got to go and I have an
amazing therapist.
And I remember talking to herand her saying hey, I want to do
a couple of assessments.
After one, maybe twoconversations, I want to do a
couple of assessments.
I really want to do an anxietyassessment.
(16:13):
I really want to do an anxietyassessment and I'd like to do a
depression assessment.
And I was thinking, all right,I'm sure I'm anxious, I'm wound
up or whatever.
So it took us a few sessions toget through the assessments.
And the funny thing was I wassitting in my car doing my
therapy sessions because therewas nowhere else I could go.
(16:33):
Nowhere else was quiet, therewas nowhere else.
Cassandra (16:37):
And your sessions were virtual.
Dr. Ebony Stone (16:39):
They were virtual.
Cassandra (16:40):
Okay.
Dr. Ebony Stone (16:40):
I was sitting in the car behind my house and I
remember so clearly her sayingMrs Stone, you've been operating
in a deficit so long you don'teven realize that's what's
happening, and something abouther saying that just I think
that was the moment that it allcame crashing down on me and the
(17:03):
tears just started running.
And she continued, you know,said I just want you to take a
moment and process.
This is going to come with myrecommendation that you take
some time off of work.
Ouch and correct, so you.
So now you're dealing with this.
(17:24):
Who doesn't want time off ofwork?
but right really because I needtime off work, right?
So Now you're dealing with thisand have all these thoughts
swirling.
They're just swirling.
Are people going to think I'mdoing this just to get time off
work?
Should I actually tell thisstory?
(17:45):
Is it okay to tell this story?
What are people going to thinkof me?
How do I go back and be aleader after this?
This is going to show weaknessme.
How do I go back and be aleader after this?
Like does this?
This is going to show weakness,like.
All of these things areswirling.
And I spent probably the betterpart of three or four more days
(18:07):
dealing with whether or not Ishould take the time that she
was suggesting.
Cassandra (18:13):
Okay, now doing those three and four days were you
still working.
Dr. Ebony Stone (18:18):
Yep, okay, mm-hmm, I was still working and
because I just I care so deeplyfor people, I was looking at my
staff, I was looking at my peers, I was looking at people around
me like I can't leave, like Ihave to be here for them.
But a seed had already beenplanted by my therapist who was
(18:39):
saying no, you won't be here forthem if you don't take care of
yourself, exactly Because you'regoing to end up not here in the
worst way.
And my doctor has said the samething.
He said listen, you're on thepath to a heart attack, a stroke
, so you have got to stop.
And so those things combinedare what caused me to just
(19:02):
finally say, okay, I'm going totake the time that I need, I'm
going to listen to theseprofessionals.
They were put in my life for areason and I'm going to listen
to them.
They were put in my life for areason and I'm going to listen
to them.
And so that's when I took thetime off work.
Cassandra (19:17):
Okay, now let me ask you, because I have a lot of
listeners who are looking realgood on the outside, but on the
inside they know they should bemaking the change.
And you know all thestereotypical.
Let's talk about mental health,mental illness and all of that,
and we don't do it for fear ofwhat people may think of us.
(19:40):
You know we don't want to tellthe truth, so to speak.
We like I'm sick or I got thisor whatever.
How, what did you tell yourboss when it was time for you to
take a rest?
Dr. Ebony Stone (19:55):
to pause?
Yep, nothing that my healthcare team suggested that I take
time off work and they won't besending paperwork for me to
leave.
Cassandra (20:05):
Okay, and any questions asked.
What do you think they thoughtof that when you said that to
them?
Dr. Ebony Stone (20:16):
I know they were worried.
I know we talked before this.
I worked with some of the mostamazing people, and so I know
they were worried about me andin hindsight I would have maybe
told them a little more, becauseI know they were worried about
me, but I was in this space, itwas.
(20:41):
I was not in a good place and soI was not thinking clearly.
I can remember.
So my mother has had two bonemarrow transplants, and I
remember.
And so after a bone marrowtransplant you have to have
24-hour care.
And so the last one she had, Iremember taking a leave of
absence to help her.
(21:03):
I was very upfront about whatthings were going on and that
type of thing.
But I was worried and I was notshowing up well at work and I
remember my boss at the time,super caring I think it may have
been a Wednesday and I wasscheduled to go out on leave
after Friday and I remember hercalling me into her office and
saying, hey, I think youprobably should just go out on
(21:26):
leave now.
And I was like, oh, but I havethese things that I have to
finish.
Oh, we'll take care of it.
You need to go see about mom.
And I recognized that I was notshowing up well and because I
had worked so hard to get whereI was, I am thankful that she
was protecting me in that spaceand saying, well, now, before
(21:48):
you fall apart, right, I hadgotten to that place again, but
that wasn't.
I wasn't worried about anybodyon the outside, I was falling
apart on the inside for me and Iwasn't sure how that would be
taken right, and so I was alsovery well versed in human
(22:12):
resources.
I have, you know, my MBA has afocus on organizational behavior
, human resources, and so I knew, once I did certain things,
what would trigger.
That's right, yeah, and how tohandle it.
So emotionally I don't knowthat I handled it well, but
(22:35):
professionally I handled it bythe book.
Everything, yeah, yeah.
Cassandra (22:43):
Yeah, and I and I ask that because you know, yeah,
jobs are important careers andall of that but what I do know,
people sacrifice their healthfor the job and and you don't
know what people are thinking,you don't know, oh, they can't
(23:05):
do that job, or will you havethat job when you come back?
Until it gets to a point likeyou know what, if I don't stop
this, I'm not going to be hereanyway.
Dr. Ebony Stone (23:19):
Correct, yeah, and I'd like to say this I think
the majority of people you'reright they don't know if they're
going to have the job when theycome back to it.
They don't know what's going tohappen.
I will tell you that it wasnever a doubt in my mind that my
job would be there when I gotback.
That was never a doubt in mymind that my job would be there.
(23:42):
What was in my mind is that Ithink you talked about in your
opening the mask that we put on.
What was in my mind is thatthat mask would be gone and how
would I exist without that mask,right, the mask that had been
there since I graduated college,quite frankly.
(24:03):
So how would I do that?
Cassandra (24:06):
So I think the mask of being like educated you all
of this and all of that, andyeah, ok, and so how, yeah, all
of this, you're that girl,that's right.
Dr. Ebony Stone (24:22):
And that girl has problems, right, right.
And I hesitated to share mystory.
I'm so thankful for a therapistwho pushed me to share my story
.
I'm so thankful for a therapistwho pushed me to share my story
, and I did, because so manypeople relate to it.
And my husband said to me babe,I don't want that to be your
(24:45):
story.
I don't want your story to beabout a six month period in your
life.
Cassandra (24:54):
And I said.
Dr. Ebony Stone (24:54):
You know, if people decide that the sum of
Ebony is six months in which Iwas caring for myself and they
see that as a bad thing, thenthose aren't the people that I
need in my life anyway.
I don't want the people that Iwant to be a part of.
(25:16):
Those aren't the people that Iwant to help, you know.
But I do recognize that thereare those people that are going
to think differently of me forsharing my story.
That's right.
That's right.
Cassandra (25:31):
So you were out.
For how long?
Dr. Ebony Stone (25:34):
Initially I was out for three months and then
it was extended for anotherthree months and during that
time I realized that the healingprocess had began.
I realized how free I was.
I realized I was sleeping again.
(25:57):
I realized how free I was.
I realized I was sleeping again.
I lost probably 15 pounds thedifference in my blood pressure
from the first time my doctormade the recommendation for me
to go to therapy to probablyfour or five months into the
leave.
The difference was astronomical.
Like blood pressure came waydown, I realized that I needed
(26:21):
to care for me and so duringthat time I made the decision to
make some shifts.
So I was away for six monthsand for health reasons, I
decided not to return.
Cassandra (26:37):
Not to return, okay.
Okay, let's talk about how isthat, that journey to the power
of the park Cause see, being offor away for six months.
(26:59):
It had to be a journey, oh, forsure, yeah, and I'm asking that
because we have listeners thatare like you were burnt out.
I just if, I if, if it's kindof like they used to say, when
things are so rough, you comehome and kick the dog.
(27:19):
You know, you know you'rehollering at the kids, hollering
at the husband you know it's,you're not in a good place, but
people say I got to work, what?
What can I do?
What can I do?
So?
Talk to them about the journey,what was the journey like, and
the power of of the pause.
(27:41):
And we're going to talk aboutthat pause in a minute.
Dr. Ebony Stone (27:43):
Yes, so let me first say this I don't think I
want a disclaimer out there thatI don't think anybody I'm not
telling anybody that they shouldleave their job, right, right,
I was in a unique situation andhaving a husband that could
support this continued healthjourney that I was on and we you
(28:07):
know some other things thatmade it possible.
But I do highly recommendtherapy and I do highly
recommend taking advantage ofthe benefits that you have if
you have them available to youand you need them.
Now.
People will probably think itwill be great from day one, like
(28:29):
you stop working and then youknow you're just living life
footloose and fancy free, andthat is not what it is like.
I spent.
I remember doing things like I'ma writer, I just love to write
and I journal.
(28:50):
My mother has always journaled.
I remember spending weeks and Ikept it in my phone.
It's in the book.
Some of the excerpts are in thebook.
I kept logs of what I was doingbecause I still felt like I had
to prove what was going on inmy life.
There were days that I couldnot get out of the bed.
(29:12):
The guilt was so overwhelminglyheavy.
There were days that I spentcrying, trying to figure out
even what I was feeling, and so,when I think about it, it is
not easy.
The pause is not a vacationthat so many people think it is.
(29:38):
It definitely is not.
I was not laying on the beachdrinking my fives.
I was having to confront somereally, really strong truths.
Right, I had a therapist whowas walking me through this and
we were analyzing what washappening.
We were analyzing differentsituations.
(29:59):
She would stop me and say holdon, don't gloss over that, let's
talk about your feelings inthat moment.
And all of these feelings were,they were coming up and I had
to deal with them.
And then we got to a point where, after I had processed so much,
it was how do you build a planto go forward?
(30:20):
What does that look like?
And that is not easy becauseyou have to decide what that
looks like.
And so, whether you're in aspace where you're like, hey, I
need a really hard reset, so youknow you're on a mental health
leave or you're just like I needa weekend, a three-day weekend,
(30:45):
right, same principles can beapplied, but it's not always,
it's not easy.
So that's what that journeylooked like.
For me.
It was probably, and that iswhy, after 12 weeks, it was like
you're doing the work, but wegot more work to do.
(31:05):
You were talking about a 25year or so, almost 30 year
career in programming.
That had to be processed.
You can't do that in onetherapy Exactly.
Cassandra (31:26):
And that's why I asked you, because you know it
was interesting during COVID howmental health became a topic of
discussion and I was sorelieved because mental health
was here before COVID just gavepeople I don't want to use the
(31:56):
word reason, but that just gaveindividuals like an out, like
yeah, that's what I had, youknow, and that, to me, was a
relief for individuals becausethey were suffering with anxiety
, depression, and they had been,but they're trying to keep it
all in and and that's why peopleblow up and you know all of
those things.
So, but that process is noteasy.
Dr. Ebony Stone (32:17):
Don't think if you leave that situation, life's
going to be great, yeah, bigdeal, yeah, I literally wrote um
like I felt like like I wascrying and I was breaking down
(32:38):
and like when she told me Ineeded to be off work and I felt
somewhat I was like am Ifailing?
But I felt relieved at the sametime and I felt like, ok, great
, I've gotten through thisjourney, but the journey was
just beginning.
(32:58):
I had no idea.
Cassandra (33:00):
Yes, yes, right.
Dr. Ebony Stone (33:02):
Beginning.
Cassandra (33:03):
That's right.
That's right.
So let's talk about how do youtake up space without losing
yourself.
Dr. Ebony Stone (33:17):
Oh, that's a great question how do you take
up space without losing yourself?
I think it's something wetalked about a little earlier.
It's about being transparent,being authentic and being fully
you, because there are going tobe people who don't want to hear
it, who don't believe it, whodon't buy it, and that's fine,
(33:37):
but there is going to be thatgroup of people who dial in.
I remember when I decided thatI was going to put these
writings because this is not abook that I ever wanted to write
Like I was going to write abook.
I knew I'd write a book someday.
It would be like the 10leadership lessons of blah blah
(33:59):
blah.
Right, this was not the bookthat I was going to write, but
because I like to write andjournaling was a part of my
journey, um, that's what Istarted doing and it just it
became a book.
And when I decided to publishit and we were going through the
editing process, someone saidto me you write as if you are
(34:23):
talking to one person.
Not as if you're talking to theworld.
Write to that one person.
Talk to that one person.
Talk to that one person.
You would be surprised, if youtalk to that one person, how
many people will actually hearyou.
Cassandra (34:47):
And I think that is because when you talk to one
person you are as sincere,honest, transparent and
authentic as you are.
Dr. Ebony Stone (34:50):
It's personal, and then everybody feels that.
So when you say, how do youtake up space and not lose
yourself, you do just that.
You be you.
You be as authentic as youpossibly can um, so what are you
currently?
Cassandra (35:07):
okay?
Okay, you wrote the book.
I can't wait to read the book.
I love the title of the bookand what I also want to say you
can have high functioninganxiety, not just work.
You know, I don't want peopleto think, oh, this is all about
corporate having a job, it couldbe your family.
(35:31):
Yes, I mean, you know, eventhough we're talking about in
the corporate environment and Iwas a high functioning, you know
and what that means is like, ifyou think about a high
functioning alcoholic, they cango to work, they can do all of
this, they can do all of that,they can do all of that, but on
the inside, my gosh, andoftentimes it's sneaky, right.
Dr. Ebony Stone (35:55):
People who suffer from high functioning
anxiety are often high achievers.
Yeah, they're winning awards,they're winning accolades
because it's a what I call rightand this is not clinical.
But yeah, you want to controleverything, like that's a part
of it.
You have to control it.
(36:15):
So you're grabbing things andyou're trying to control them
and people are like, oh, that'samazing, and she just did this.
And you're like, yeah, I juststayed up for 16 hours like a
crazy person trying to get thatdone, when really it is my
anxiety taking over.
It's not.
It's not a healthy human beingdoing right, because what do
(36:38):
they say?
Cassandra (36:39):
depression is about the past, anxiety is about the
future.
Yeah, yeah, um, and you, youhit it.
It's.
It's those high achievers, it'sthose imposter syndrome folks,
you know, that really set thebar higher for themselves and
(36:59):
can't maintain it and you justlike, yeah, I get it.
And you know why I get it.
Because I'm like that.
You know why I get it.
Because I've experienced thatI'm like that.
You know why I get it.
Because I've experienced that Iget it.
Because my corporate job I wasthere for 30 plus years and I
was a wreck.
You look good on the outside,but on the inside I was just a
(37:21):
wreck.
And no, I didn't want to tellanybody, I needed time off.
You know, because I was in anenvironment that, oh really Okay
, well, just so.
You'll know, because I was inan environment that, oh really
OK, well, just so you know, youmay not have this job when you
get back.
So everybody has differentsituations, different different
circumstances and we are notmachines, we're human beings.
Dr. Ebony Stone (37:45):
Yeah, and I wish and because this, this year
and next year I'll be doingsome studying about it, so I
don't have research behind itjust yet but what I really wish
because of my experience I wishthat organizations would force
sabbaticals every so many yearsand you know, I don't know what
(38:09):
it looks like, but people needto stop, People need to process,
People need to rest and healand regenerate and all of those
things.
And I wish that sabbaticalswere forced and that everybody I
don't know what that looks liketo the bottom line of an
organization.
(38:29):
So you know, I know why therewould be a fight against it, but
there's just got to be a way tohelp the health of your staff,
and not just physical health,but mental health as well.
They don't have to be six monthsabbaticals, but perhaps folks
(38:53):
are.
You know, every so often there'sa 30 day sabbatical that you
just gotta push away and I'mshutting it down, Like you don't
have access anymore, so you cango recharge and regenerate and
deal with anything that you'veneeded to deal with, Right?
You know, in the future I'll bestudying and looking at those
(39:14):
things because there are someplaces that do require
sabbaticals.
So looks at those.
But from my experience, I justwish that that was something
that was quite frankly forcedupon me Right Instead of using
your vacation right like oh yeahthat's not vacation?
Cassandra (39:35):
yeah right, exactly, exactly.
So, dr Stone, what are youcurrently doing?
When you said you wanted tohelp people, you have what we
call the pause framework.
Dr. Ebony Stone (39:52):
Yes, talk about that, and so I use that.
That framework is kind of thesteps that I went through during
this pause.
Cassandra (40:00):
Also.
Dr. Ebony Stone (40:03):
I've found that it can help others to just push
away for a moment and sometimes, like I said, they're really
quick pauses.
How do you use a pause in themoment?
Sometimes a pause is justsaying in a meeting.
While I appreciate that I amnot ready to give my opinion, I
want to process all of theinformation.
(40:24):
So if we don't need it today,can I let you know by Friday and
take that time that you need sothat you're not forcing that
pressure on yourself, and thenyou can walk away, analyze
everything, make sure youunderstand it and then decide
how to move forward.
Sometimes it is a longer pause,right?
(40:44):
Maybe you're saying, hey, I'mgoing to unfortunately use my
vacation time because I got toback away, and during that time
you're going through the samesteps.
Or maybe it's a leave and youare going through those steps of
first stopping.
And I believe listen I believein prayer, and so when I pause,
(41:06):
the very first thing I'm doingis praying.
I just need to.
You should pray all the time,but it's I am just.
I'm praying about the situation.
And then I'm trying to analyzewhat's happening.
I'm trying to understand mypart in it, because a lot of
times we play a part in thesethings, this pressure that we're
putting on us Not always, butsometimes we play a part in that
(41:29):
.
I want to understand my part init.
I will give you an example.
I had someone provide a servicefor me and at the end of that
service it was actuallyabsolutely beautiful, the
product was amazing, but Ineeded some changes to it a
couple of years later and Iasked and wasn't getting
(41:55):
responses.
I wasn't like the whole thing,it was just bad.
And so I was going to have topay again for that same service,
just to get a tweak in it,which was very frustrating for
me.
A tweak in it, which was veryfrustrating for me, and I did.
I ended up paying again andeverything worked out.
But then I had to ask myselfwhat part did you play in that?
(42:18):
Well, I had seen this person'sproduct before and so I just
wanted it because it wasbeautiful.
But the person who got it saidhey, I'll give you the number,
(42:38):
but I can tell you service ain'tgreat, ok, during the first
rodeo, so to speak, the servicewas not great.
So when I went back, I don'tknow why I expected anything
different.
Right?
So I have to.
You know it was an expensivelesson, but I have to also
understand for myself what partI played.
It doesn't make them right, butI have to understand what part
I played in putting myself inthat situation.
Just a simple example.
(42:59):
And so how do I help peoplewith that?
I do coaching.
I've done coaching for years,corporately and personally.
I focus specifically on Blackwomen in the corporate world and
helping them climb the ladder.
We use the PAWS framework to dothat.
I have group coaching thatkicks off quarterly, so we'll be
(43:23):
kicking off another cohortbeginning of April.
I do some speaking and then Ialso do some workshops and
consulting to help.
In the same framework, how doyou insert these intentional
pauses to help you continue tomove forward?
Also, how do you define?
(43:44):
You asked me a question whichis an amazing question.
Also, help people define.
What does success look like toyou?
Because success is differentfor everybody, and so once you
define what success looks likefor you, there's a freedom in it
(44:07):
.
It's an amazing freedom in it,instead of chasing the dream
that the world has for you iswhat we talked about before the
show started.
It's about making sure you'recompleting the task that God has
Exactly, and there's a freedomin that that is just different
than as defined by the world.
Cassandra (44:24):
That's good.
That's good.
How can people get in touchwith you?
Dr. Ebony Stone (44:32):
Oh yeah, Great People can.
My website is just Dr EbonyStone dot com.
Cassandra (44:38):
And.
Dr. Ebony Stone (44:38):
I'm on all the socials Facebook, instagram,
playing with TikTok now that'sinteresting and then mostly on
LinkedIn and all of the handlesare Dr Ebony Stone.
So I'm in all of those places.
And then the book.
The book is on my website, butit's also available as an audio
(45:00):
book and anywhere that you canhave books online.
Cassandra (45:03):
Okay, is the audio books voice yours?
It is?
Oh good, I love those.
I love those.
That was a great learningexperience.
Yeah, it sure was Mine too, butnobody could tell my story like
me, no.
Dr. Ebony Stone (45:20):
Not, at all Not at all.
I remember.
That was interesting, though.
I remember just reading andreading and the girl stops me,
the engineer, and she said, hey,you got to take a break, right,
well, okay, well, what time dowe start tomorrow?
She said, no, no, no, nottomorrow.
Your voice needs a break.
Yeah, it's nothing I've everdone before.
(45:42):
I didn't know.
I said oh okay, well, tell mewhen to come Exactly.
Cassandra (45:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, dr Ebony Stone, it was adelight to have you as a guest
on.
Is your Way In your Way andjust listening to your story,
you were in your way just byyour expectations, how you grew
(46:10):
up and what you thought youshould be doing.
But the body says something'sup Right.
So I just you know, I justthank you.
I got a lot of nuggets out ofthat.
I could relate to your storyand I know I have many listeners
on that can relate to it aswell, and I ask my listeners to
(46:34):
please share this podcast withsomebody where you know this
would be of their best interest,and also, as I always say,
listeners.
Bye for now, god bless and drebony stone, again, it was the
(46:54):
my pleasure to meet you and tospeak with you godspeed,
godspeed, thank you.
Dr. Ebony Stone (47:01):
Thank you for having me sure.
welcome you to Is your Way In your Way podcast.
(00:04):
Actually, for my new listenersout there and I know I have some
and always do but that's thename of my book Is your Way In
your Way and it's aself-discovery guide for women
on how to restore yourself,learn from your experiences and
be your true self again.
This podcast is for individualswho I call stuck.
(00:27):
You're kind of in your waybecause a lot of limiting
beliefs we have self-imposedbarriers, imposter syndrome,
self-sabotage, just a multitudeof things and you've been
wanting to write this book,you've been wanting to start a
podcast, you want to start abusiness, you want to get a new
job.
It's just so many things Getout of a toxic relationship,
(00:50):
just so much stuff that'srolling in your head, ruminating
that it is that you want to do,but yet you're stuck.
You're in your way.
So we talk about topics relatedto what I call self-improvement
, personal development and alsomy prayer is also that when you
(01:11):
listen, when somebody listens tothis podcast whatever has had
you stuck, you will get unstuckby something that you've heard.
And today I'm just super excitedabout my guest today and I say
that because I get it, because Iwas where she was, and the name
(01:31):
of the podcast is the Power ofthe Pause Breaking free from
high functioning anxiety.
Let me bring her back to theorange room.
I'd like to introduce to you DrEbony Stone.
Hi, dr Ebony, how are you today?
Hello, how are you?
Dr. Ebony Stone (01:52):
I'm so excited to be here today.
Cassandra (01:54):
Oh girl, me too.
I'm just super happy.
Thank you for having me.
Absolutely, it's the pleasure,it's all mine.
Now, one of the things that I dobefore we start delving into
the questions, I kind of tell mylisteners give them a little
background, ok, so they can kindof understand why you're
(02:14):
qualified to talk about thepower of the pause.
So one of the things I want toask my listeners, though have
you ever felt like you werecrushing it on the outside?
I mean, you were doingphenomenal on the outside, but
yet you were crumbling on theinside, like people saw you and
(02:35):
thought you had it all together,but on the inside it was like,
oh, it was just.
You guys know what I mean bythat, right?
So like your success was justbeautifully, beautifully,
beautifully decorated mask.
You wear a mask for exhaustion,anxiety and self-doubt.
(02:56):
Now, if any of you are kind ofshaking your head and say, yeah,
yeah, I look good on theoutside, but, boy, on the inside
I am just falling apart, Well,if you're nodding right now,
you're not alone.
My guest today, dr Ebony Stone,knows this struggle all too well
.
She's a powerhouse leader, anentrepreneur and a mental health
(03:18):
advocate.
Dr Stone went from navigatingthe highest level of corporate
America to realizing that highfunctioning Now listen, high
functioning anxiety was runningher life.
In her book, the Power of thePause, she opens up about how
(03:39):
hitting the brakes intentionallycan actually accelerate your
success.
Intentionally can actuallyaccelerate your success.
So what happens when we stoppushing and start pausing?
So, hey guys, so let's dive in.
Dr Ebony, now you had youreducate, now you're a doctor.
So we know that before youreducational journey, like, you
(04:03):
got a PhD in businessadministration, mba from Wayne
State, a bachelor's inmanagement information system
from Oakland University.
So before your educationaljourney, what was life like for
you?
Dr. Ebony Stone (04:21):
You know that's a funny question.
I don't.
I didn't know life withouteducation.
Right From the time I wasprobably two years old, before I
can remember.
I was in school and I stayed inschool.
I went straight through amaster's degree, stopped for a
few years to get married, had acouple of kids and then went
(04:44):
back and did a doctorate.
So and then I worked inlearning and development.
So education was always a partof my life.
I don't know that I really knowlife without education.
I'm blessed, right, I recognizethat I had a childhood that was
unlike many.
You know I have my mom and dadin the home together.
(05:07):
I grew up with my siblings.
My mom has a massive family.
She had 15 sisters and brothers.
I have a ton of cousins.
I had a grandmother, my dad'smom, who lived literally a mile
and a half away.
I had grandmas, you know.
Daily after school I got home,cooked meals.
(05:29):
So I had a great life, right byany standard.
I went to some of the bestschools in the city.
I'm from Detroit.
I went to, you know, some ofthe best schools in the city.
So I had a great life.
But with that life also came alot of pressure.
(05:49):
Right.
You're given these privilegesof going to these schools,
having these things, there's anexpectation of performance and
even if that expectation is notverbal, even if it's not coming
from parents, the world istelling you you need to perform,
like you have no reason not tobe at the top of every single
(06:13):
list.
And even if the world didn'ttell me that, that's how I
internalized OK, like I had beengiven all of these things.
So I needed to perform, youknow, to show to be my ancestors
, wildest dreams, right, and Ihad a great life, but I had to
(06:38):
constantly stay.
I think I attached my identityto the smart girl.
I attached my identity to thesmart girl.
Cassandra (06:44):
Oh, when you ask about education, always a part
of my life, okay, Well, let meask you then, what were your
dreams and aspirations, except,like, going to school?
Dr. Ebony Stone (06:57):
Yeah, Honest to God, my dream was to get
married and have a family andhave a legacy.
Came to work, I didn't reallycare Like, I went to school and
I got a job.
I mean, I got a degree ininformation systems because I
was good at math, right, I wasgood at working with the
(07:20):
computers.
But my dream in life really wasto continue the legacy that my
parents had started.
Family was extremely importantto me.
I wanted to help other peopleand at one point I believed I
shouldn't say I believed.
At one point I was like hey, Iknow, I want to be the executive
right On the highest levels,that's what I said to myself,
(07:44):
but it wasn't.
I wasn't super clear with myself, it wasn't like, oh, in this
industry, doing this thing, itwas just kind of like that's the
next step, that's theexpectation to be at the top of
the list.
And so that's what happened,and I did both simultaneously.
I got married to an amazing man.
I have three beautiful children.
We are still married, ourchildren are still together, and
(08:06):
so that dream, I'm living thatdream, and I also rose to the
highest ranks of corporate, so Iwas able to do those things as
well, and now I get to spend mytime helping others.
So I think about my dreams.
I can say that my dreams havecome true, but it was not
without challenge yes, wow.
Cassandra (08:29):
So that's interesting .
When you said your theexpectations that you, it
sounded like you had of yourself, basically because look at your
family, it was family-oriented,your parents are still together
, you were always in Educationseemed like it was key, it was
important, and also you soundedlike you were hard on yourself.
(08:55):
And I say that because you'relike OK, I want to be this, I
want to do this, I want to getto the highest ranks.
And you did OK, and so I liketo know what did it look like
when you were, gracefully,perhaps, navigating the
corporate world?
Dr. Ebony Stone (09:14):
Yeah, it looked great on the outside and it was
interesting on the inside.
So I have done a number ofthings.
I've done some consulting, I'veworked in some small firms,
I've worked worked in some largefirms and it looked like Ebony,
(09:34):
showing up every day, poisedand ready to take on whatever
the challenge of the day was,whatever the challenge of the
day was.
It was about leadership.
It was about making sure that Iwas an example for all, but as
a Black woman, I carried that.
You got to be an example forall Black people Right, and so I
(09:58):
was showing up with a smile onmy face, even when I wasn't
happy.
I was calculated.
Every move that I made wascalculated.
I was personable, but I didn'tlet too many people into my
personal space.
Relatable but, I, wasn't the oneto, let's say, hang out after
(10:24):
work or get to kind of the workclicks.
Um, I many people would tellyou that I spoke my piece, but,
um, that was the ebony that theyknew.
They didn't know on the insidethat there was a whole lot more
going on.
So that's what it looked on theoutside.
It looked like on the outside.
The higher up I got, the oldermy kids got.
(10:47):
On the inside it was a mess.
Like I will tell you, we wererunning.
Schedules were crazy.
The house looked a mess.
There was always clothes thatneeded to be folded, dishes that
needed to be washed.
There was another event that Ihad to go to to be folded,
dishes that needed to be washed.
There was another event that Ihad to go to.
All of these things had to bedone.
My husband is an entrepreneurand so behind the scenes there
(11:10):
was kind of this whirlwindtornado going on, and then we
step outside and present to theworld and then we come back into
this whirlwind.
Cassandra (11:50):
Kind of what it looked like for, I would say, 15
years or so.
You know, as the're currentlydoing now and we're going to
talk about that, how did youdefine success when you were in
that corporate environment?
What was success?
Dr. Ebony Stone (11:58):
to you, success was measured by, to be quite
honest, money promotions, and Iwent from tying my identity to
education and being a smart girlto tying my identity to leading
(12:21):
large groups of people, toleading large groups of people.
And so, as long as I wasleading a large group of people
and making sure that I had avision in front of them and
guiding them toward that vision,I felt like I was being
successful and to a certainextent I was.
But that's not the fulldefinition of success, as I see
it today, right because andothers saw you as being
(12:45):
successful.
Absolutely, Absolutely.
I can't tell you how manypeople walked into an office and
said I want to do what you do,Tell me how you do it.
And I was thinking you have noidea what's going on Right,
exactly.
Cassandra (13:00):
So, um, what was?
Okay, you had all of that yougot.
It's interesting, becausethat's how we were brought up we
have.
You got married, you had thekids, had the white picket fence
.
You know you had the good job.
You were doing this, you weredoing that, and so what was your
(13:20):
breaking point behind the pauseframework that you're?
Dr. Ebony Stone (13:25):
doing yeah, yeah, great question.
So after 2020,.
So I would say, coming out ofCOVID was a breaking point
because going into COVID Ikicked into what I call
overdrive.
It was a space where I buriedthe feelings that Ebony had and
(13:49):
I made sure that everybody elsewas okay.
I was making sure my husbandwas okay.
He's an entrepreneur, he's acontractor, he couldn't go into
other people's homes right, andI knew sitting still was going
to drive him bonkers.
The kids were at home doingschool.
I wanted to make sure they wereokay, unlike most people who
just put their kids at thedining room table, which is you
(14:09):
know what.
In hindsight, maybe I shouldhave done.
Nope, I emptied my dining room.
I turned it into a school room.
They had desks and beanbags andwhiteboards and all of the
things and I was taking care ofmom, who couldn't be out and
about, and I was making surethat my team was okay.
And I was taking care of mom,who couldn't be out and about,
and I was making sure that myteam was okay.
I was checking on the people,my direct reports, every day.
(14:30):
I had a meeting every singlemorning, cameras on just so I
could look at my staff and inhindsight I was creating more
chaos, but for me it felt like Iwas controlling everything and
so, coming out of that andeasing back into the workplace,
I was trying to make sureeverybody was OK as they were
coming back into the office andall of those things.
(14:51):
And once all of that stopped, Ifound myself in a space where
now all of these emotions couldcome to the surface.
Cassandra (15:01):
Now you had gone back to work.
Yep COVID was over.
Dr. Ebony Stone (15:05):
COVID was over.
Cassandra (15:06):
OK, all right.
Dr. Ebony Stone (15:08):
Things were supposedly back to normal.
We can only bury feelings forso long.
They will come to the surfaceif you do not process them
Somehow someway.
Yep, they are coming out.
And so I was dealing withmedical issues, I was gaining
weight, all of these things, andso I had gone to the doctor and
(15:28):
the doctor said you know, Ireally I couldn't sleep.
She's trying to give memedication to sleep and he said
I really want you to considerthis behavioral health
recommendation.
I really would like for you togo see a therapist.
I said, yeah, yeah, I'm goingto go.
And then when I went back, youknow, a couple of times he told
(15:50):
me.
And so finally I said, you know, I've got to go and I have an
amazing therapist.
And I remember talking to herand her saying hey, I want to do
a couple of assessments.
After one, maybe twoconversations, I want to do a
couple of assessments.
I really want to do an anxietyassessment.
(16:13):
I really want to do an anxietyassessment and I'd like to do a
depression assessment.
And I was thinking, all right,I'm sure I'm anxious, I'm wound
up or whatever.
So it took us a few sessions toget through the assessments.
And the funny thing was I wassitting in my car doing my
therapy sessions because therewas nowhere else I could go.
(16:33):
Nowhere else was quiet, therewas nowhere else.
Cassandra (16:37):
And your sessions were virtual.
Dr. Ebony Stone (16:39):
They were virtual.
Cassandra (16:40):
Okay.
Dr. Ebony Stone (16:40):
I was sitting in the car behind my house and I
remember so clearly her sayingMrs Stone, you've been operating
in a deficit so long you don'teven realize that's what's
happening, and something abouther saying that just I think
that was the moment that it allcame crashing down on me and the
(17:03):
tears just started running.
And she continued, you know,said I just want you to take a
moment and process.
This is going to come with myrecommendation that you take
some time off of work.
Ouch and correct, so you.
So now you're dealing with this.
(17:24):
Who doesn't want time off ofwork?
but right really because I needtime off work, right?
So Now you're dealing with thisand have all these thoughts
swirling.
They're just swirling.
Are people going to think I'mdoing this just to get time off
work?
Should I actually tell thisstory?
(17:45):
Is it okay to tell this story?
What are people going to thinkof me?
How do I go back and be aleader after this?
This is going to show weaknessme.
How do I go back and be aleader after this?
Like does this?
This is going to show weakness,like.
All of these things areswirling.
And I spent probably the betterpart of three or four more days
(18:07):
dealing with whether or not Ishould take the time that she
was suggesting.
Cassandra (18:13):
Okay, now doing those three and four days were you
still working.
Dr. Ebony Stone (18:18):
Yep, okay, mm-hmm, I was still working and
because I just I care so deeplyfor people, I was looking at my
staff, I was looking at my peers, I was looking at people around
me like I can't leave, like Ihave to be here for them.
But a seed had already beenplanted by my therapist who was
(18:39):
saying no, you won't be here forthem if you don't take care of
yourself, exactly Because you'regoing to end up not here in the
worst way.
And my doctor has said the samething.
He said listen, you're on thepath to a heart attack, a stroke
, so you have got to stop.
And so those things combinedare what caused me to just
(19:02):
finally say, okay, I'm going totake the time that I need, I'm
going to listen to theseprofessionals.
They were put in my life for areason and I'm going to listen
to them.
They were put in my life for areason and I'm going to listen
to them.
And so that's when I took thetime off work.
Cassandra (19:17):
Okay, now let me ask you, because I have a lot of
listeners who are looking realgood on the outside, but on the
inside they know they should bemaking the change.
And you know all thestereotypical.
Let's talk about mental health,mental illness and all of that,
and we don't do it for fear ofwhat people may think of us.
(19:40):
You know we don't want to tellthe truth, so to speak.
We like I'm sick or I got thisor whatever.
How, what did you tell yourboss when it was time for you to
take a rest?
Dr. Ebony Stone (19:55):
to pause?
Yep, nothing that my healthcare team suggested that I take
time off work and they won't besending paperwork for me to
leave.
Cassandra (20:05):
Okay, and any questions asked.
What do you think they thoughtof that when you said that to
them?
Dr. Ebony Stone (20:16):
I know they were worried.
I know we talked before this.
I worked with some of the mostamazing people, and so I know
they were worried about me andin hindsight I would have maybe
told them a little more, becauseI know they were worried about
me, but I was in this space, itwas.
(20:41):
I was not in a good place and soI was not thinking clearly.
I can remember.
So my mother has had two bonemarrow transplants, and I
remember.
And so after a bone marrowtransplant you have to have
24-hour care.
And so the last one she had, Iremember taking a leave of
absence to help her.
(21:03):
I was very upfront about whatthings were going on and that
type of thing.
But I was worried and I was notshowing up well at work and I
remember my boss at the time,super caring I think it may have
been a Wednesday and I wasscheduled to go out on leave
after Friday and I remember hercalling me into her office and
saying, hey, I think youprobably should just go out on
(21:26):
leave now.
And I was like, oh, but I havethese things that I have to
finish.
Oh, we'll take care of it.
You need to go see about mom.
And I recognized that I was notshowing up well and because I
had worked so hard to get whereI was, I am thankful that she
was protecting me in that spaceand saying, well, now, before
(21:48):
you fall apart, right, I hadgotten to that place again, but
that wasn't.
I wasn't worried about anybodyon the outside, I was falling
apart on the inside for me and Iwasn't sure how that would be
taken right, and so I was alsovery well versed in human
(22:12):
resources.
I have, you know, my MBA has afocus on organizational behavior
, human resources, and so I knew, once I did certain things,
what would trigger.
That's right, yeah, and how tohandle it.
So emotionally I don't knowthat I handled it well, but
(22:35):
professionally I handled it bythe book.
Everything, yeah, yeah.
Cassandra (22:43):
Yeah, and I and I ask that because you know, yeah,
jobs are important careers andall of that but what I do know,
people sacrifice their healthfor the job and and you don't
know what people are thinking,you don't know, oh, they can't
(23:05):
do that job, or will you havethat job when you come back?
Until it gets to a point likeyou know what, if I don't stop
this, I'm not going to be hereanyway.
Dr. Ebony Stone (23:19):
Correct, yeah, and I'd like to say this I think
the majority of people you'reright they don't know if they're
going to have the job when theycome back to it.
They don't know what's going tohappen.
I will tell you that it wasnever a doubt in my mind that my
job would be there when I gotback.
That was never a doubt in mymind that my job would be there.
(23:42):
What was in my mind is that Ithink you talked about in your
opening the mask that we put on.
What was in my mind is thatthat mask would be gone and how
would I exist without that mask,right, the mask that had been
there since I graduated college,quite frankly.
(24:03):
So how would I do that?
Cassandra (24:06):
So I think the mask of being like educated you all
of this and all of that, andyeah, ok, and so how, yeah, all
of this, you're that girl,that's right.
Dr. Ebony Stone (24:22):
And that girl has problems, right, right.
And I hesitated to share mystory.
I'm so thankful for a therapistwho pushed me to share my story
.
I'm so thankful for a therapistwho pushed me to share my story
, and I did, because so manypeople relate to it.
And my husband said to me babe,I don't want that to be your
(24:45):
story.
I don't want your story to beabout a six month period in your
life.
Cassandra (24:54):
And I said.
Dr. Ebony Stone (24:54):
You know, if people decide that the sum of
Ebony is six months in which Iwas caring for myself and they
see that as a bad thing, thenthose aren't the people that I
need in my life anyway.
I don't want the people that Iwant to be a part of.
(25:16):
Those aren't the people that Iwant to help, you know.
But I do recognize that thereare those people that are going
to think differently of me forsharing my story.
That's right.
That's right.
Cassandra (25:31):
So you were out.
For how long?
Dr. Ebony Stone (25:34):
Initially I was out for three months and then
it was extended for anotherthree months and during that
time I realized that the healingprocess had began.
I realized how free I was.
I realized I was sleeping again.
(25:57):
I realized how free I was.
I realized I was sleeping again.
I lost probably 15 pounds thedifference in my blood pressure
from the first time my doctormade the recommendation for me
to go to therapy to probablyfour or five months into the
leave.
The difference was astronomical.
Like blood pressure came waydown, I realized that I needed
(26:21):
to care for me and so duringthat time I made the decision to
make some shifts.
So I was away for six monthsand for health reasons, I
decided not to return.
Cassandra (26:37):
Not to return, okay.
Okay, let's talk about how isthat, that journey to the power
of the park Cause see, being offor away for six months.
(26:59):
It had to be a journey, oh, forsure, yeah, and I'm asking that
because we have listeners thatare like you were burnt out.
I just if, I if, if it's kindof like they used to say, when
things are so rough, you comehome and kick the dog.
(27:19):
You know, you know you'rehollering at the kids, hollering
at the husband you know it's,you're not in a good place, but
people say I got to work, what?
What can I do?
What can I do?
So?
Talk to them about the journey,what was the journey like, and
the power of of the pause.
(27:41):
And we're going to talk aboutthat pause in a minute.
Dr. Ebony Stone (27:43):
Yes, so let me first say this I don't think I
want a disclaimer out there thatI don't think anybody I'm not
telling anybody that they shouldleave their job, right, right,
I was in a unique situation andhaving a husband that could
support this continued healthjourney that I was on and we you
(28:07):
know some other things thatmade it possible.
But I do highly recommendtherapy and I do highly
recommend taking advantage ofthe benefits that you have if
you have them available to youand you need them.
Now.
People will probably think itwill be great from day one, like
(28:29):
you stop working and then youknow you're just living life
footloose and fancy free, andthat is not what it is like.
I spent.
I remember doing things like I'ma writer, I just love to write
and I journal.
(28:50):
My mother has always journaled.
I remember spending weeks and Ikept it in my phone.
It's in the book.
Some of the excerpts are in thebook.
I kept logs of what I was doingbecause I still felt like I had
to prove what was going on inmy life.
There were days that I couldnot get out of the bed.
(29:12):
The guilt was so overwhelminglyheavy.
There were days that I spentcrying, trying to figure out
even what I was feeling, and so,when I think about it, it is
not easy.
The pause is not a vacationthat so many people think it is.
(29:38):
It definitely is not.
I was not laying on the beachdrinking my fives.
I was having to confront somereally, really strong truths.
Right, I had a therapist whowas walking me through this and
we were analyzing what washappening.
We were analyzing differentsituations.
(29:59):
She would stop me and say holdon, don't gloss over that, let's
talk about your feelings inthat moment.
And all of these feelings were,they were coming up and I had
to deal with them.
And then we got to a point where, after I had processed so much,
it was how do you build a planto go forward?
(30:20):
What does that look like?
And that is not easy becauseyou have to decide what that
looks like.
And so, whether you're in aspace where you're like, hey, I
need a really hard reset, so youknow you're on a mental health
leave or you're just like I needa weekend, a three-day weekend,
(30:45):
right, same principles can beapplied, but it's not always,
it's not easy.
So that's what that journeylooked like.
For me.
It was probably, and that iswhy, after 12 weeks, it was like
you're doing the work, but wegot more work to do.
(31:05):
You were talking about a 25year or so, almost 30 year
career in programming.
That had to be processed.
You can't do that in onetherapy Exactly.
Cassandra (31:26):
And that's why I asked you, because you know it
was interesting during COVID howmental health became a topic of
discussion and I was sorelieved because mental health
was here before COVID just gavepeople I don't want to use the
(31:56):
word reason, but that just gaveindividuals like an out, like
yeah, that's what I had, youknow, and that, to me, was a
relief for individuals becausethey were suffering with anxiety
, depression, and they had been,but they're trying to keep it
all in and and that's why peopleblow up and you know all of
those things.
So, but that process is noteasy.
Dr. Ebony Stone (32:17):
Don't think if you leave that situation, life's
going to be great, yeah, bigdeal, yeah, I literally wrote um
like I felt like like I wascrying and I was breaking down
(32:38):
and like when she told me Ineeded to be off work and I felt
somewhat I was like am Ifailing?
But I felt relieved at the sametime and I felt like, ok, great
, I've gotten through thisjourney, but the journey was
just beginning.
(32:58):
I had no idea.
Cassandra (33:00):
Yes, yes, right.
Dr. Ebony Stone (33:02):
Beginning.
Cassandra (33:03):
That's right.
That's right.
So let's talk about how do youtake up space without losing
yourself.
Dr. Ebony Stone (33:17):
Oh, that's a great question how do you take
up space without losing yourself?
I think it's something wetalked about a little earlier.
It's about being transparent,being authentic and being fully
you, because there are going tobe people who don't want to hear
it, who don't believe it, whodon't buy it, and that's fine,
(33:37):
but there is going to be thatgroup of people who dial in.
I remember when I decided thatI was going to put these
writings because this is not abook that I ever wanted to write
Like I was going to write abook.
I knew I'd write a book someday.
It would be like the 10leadership lessons of blah blah
(33:59):
blah.
Right, this was not the bookthat I was going to write, but
because I like to write andjournaling was a part of my
journey, um, that's what Istarted doing and it just it
became a book.
And when I decided to publishit and we were going through the
editing process, someone saidto me you write as if you are
(34:23):
talking to one person.
Not as if you're talking to theworld.
Write to that one person.
Talk to that one person.
Talk to that one person.
You would be surprised, if youtalk to that one person, how
many people will actually hearyou.
Cassandra (34:47):
And I think that is because when you talk to one
person you are as sincere,honest, transparent and
authentic as you are.
Dr. Ebony Stone (34:50):
It's personal, and then everybody feels that.
So when you say, how do youtake up space and not lose
yourself, you do just that.
You be you.
You be as authentic as youpossibly can um, so what are you
currently?
Cassandra (35:07):
okay?
Okay, you wrote the book.
I can't wait to read the book.
I love the title of the bookand what I also want to say you
can have high functioninganxiety, not just work.
You know, I don't want peopleto think, oh, this is all about
corporate having a job, it couldbe your family.
(35:31):
Yes, I mean, you know, eventhough we're talking about in
the corporate environment and Iwas a high functioning, you know
and what that means is like, ifyou think about a high
functioning alcoholic, they cango to work, they can do all of
this, they can do all of that,they can do all of that, but on
the inside, my gosh, andoftentimes it's sneaky, right.
Dr. Ebony Stone (35:55):
People who suffer from high functioning
anxiety are often high achievers.
Yeah, they're winning awards,they're winning accolades
because it's a what I call rightand this is not clinical.
But yeah, you want to controleverything, like that's a part
of it.
You have to control it.
(36:15):
So you're grabbing things andyou're trying to control them
and people are like, oh, that'samazing, and she just did this.
And you're like, yeah, I juststayed up for 16 hours like a
crazy person trying to get thatdone, when really it is my
anxiety taking over.
It's not.
It's not a healthy human beingdoing right, because what do
(36:38):
they say?
Cassandra (36:39):
depression is about the past, anxiety is about the
future.
Yeah, yeah, um, and you, youhit it.
It's.
It's those high achievers, it'sthose imposter syndrome folks,
you know, that really set thebar higher for themselves and
(36:59):
can't maintain it and you justlike, yeah, I get it.
And you know why I get it.
Because I'm like that.
You know why I get it.
Because I've experienced thatI'm like that.
You know why I get it.
Because I've experienced that Iget it.
Because my corporate job I wasthere for 30 plus years and I
was a wreck.
You look good on the outside,but on the inside I was just a
(37:21):
wreck.
And no, I didn't want to tellanybody, I needed time off.
You know, because I was in anenvironment that, oh really Okay
, well, just so.
You'll know, because I was inan environment that, oh really
OK, well, just so you know, youmay not have this job when you
get back.
So everybody has differentsituations, different different
circumstances and we are notmachines, we're human beings.
Dr. Ebony Stone (37:45):
Yeah, and I wish and because this, this year
and next year I'll be doingsome studying about it, so I
don't have research behind itjust yet but what I really wish
because of my experience I wishthat organizations would force
sabbaticals every so many yearsand you know, I don't know what
(38:09):
it looks like, but people needto stop, People need to process,
People need to rest and healand regenerate and all of those
things.
And I wish that sabbaticalswere forced and that everybody I
don't know what that looks liketo the bottom line of an
organization.
(38:29):
So you know, I know why therewould be a fight against it, but
there's just got to be a way tohelp the health of your staff,
and not just physical health,but mental health as well.
They don't have to be six monthsabbaticals, but perhaps folks
(38:53):
are.
You know, every so often there'sa 30 day sabbatical that you
just gotta push away and I'mshutting it down, Like you don't
have access anymore, so you cango recharge and regenerate and
deal with anything that you'veneeded to deal with, Right?
You know, in the future I'll bestudying and looking at those
(39:14):
things because there are someplaces that do require
sabbaticals.
So looks at those.
But from my experience, I justwish that that was something
that was quite frankly forcedupon me Right Instead of using
your vacation right like oh yeahthat's not vacation?
Cassandra (39:35):
yeah right, exactly, exactly.
So, dr Stone, what are youcurrently doing?
When you said you wanted tohelp people, you have what we
call the pause framework.
Dr. Ebony Stone (39:52):
Yes, talk about that, and so I use that.
That framework is kind of thesteps that I went through during
this pause.
Cassandra (40:00):
Also.
Dr. Ebony Stone (40:03):
I've found that it can help others to just push
away for a moment and sometimes, like I said, they're really
quick pauses.
How do you use a pause in themoment?
Sometimes a pause is justsaying in a meeting.
While I appreciate that I amnot ready to give my opinion, I
want to process all of theinformation.
(40:24):
So if we don't need it today,can I let you know by Friday and
take that time that you need sothat you're not forcing that
pressure on yourself, and thenyou can walk away, analyze
everything, make sure youunderstand it and then decide
how to move forward.
Sometimes it is a longer pause,right?
(40:44):
Maybe you're saying, hey, I'mgoing to unfortunately use my
vacation time because I got toback away, and during that time
you're going through the samesteps.
Or maybe it's a leave and youare going through those steps of
first stopping.
And I believe listen I believein prayer, and so when I pause,
(41:06):
the very first thing I'm doingis praying.
I just need to.
You should pray all the time,but it's I am just.
I'm praying about the situation.
And then I'm trying to analyzewhat's happening.
I'm trying to understand mypart in it, because a lot of
times we play a part in thesethings, this pressure that we're
putting on us Not always, butsometimes we play a part in that
(41:29):
.
I want to understand my part init.
I will give you an example.
I had someone provide a servicefor me and at the end of that
service it was actuallyabsolutely beautiful, the
product was amazing, but Ineeded some changes to it a
couple of years later and Iasked and wasn't getting
(41:55):
responses.
I wasn't like the whole thing,it was just bad.
And so I was going to have topay again for that same service,
just to get a tweak in it,which was very frustrating for
me.
A tweak in it, which was veryfrustrating for me, and I did.
I ended up paying again andeverything worked out.
But then I had to ask myselfwhat part did you play in that?
(42:18):
Well, I had seen this person'sproduct before and so I just
wanted it because it wasbeautiful.
But the person who got it saidhey, I'll give you the number,
(42:38):
but I can tell you service ain'tgreat, ok, during the first
rodeo, so to speak, the servicewas not great.
So when I went back, I don'tknow why I expected anything
different.
Right?
So I have to.
You know it was an expensivelesson, but I have to also
understand for myself what partI played.
It doesn't make them right, butI have to understand what part
I played in putting myself inthat situation.
Just a simple example.
(42:59):
And so how do I help peoplewith that?
I do coaching.
I've done coaching for years,corporately and personally.
I focus specifically on Blackwomen in the corporate world and
helping them climb the ladder.
We use the PAWS framework to dothat.
I have group coaching thatkicks off quarterly, so we'll be
(43:23):
kicking off another cohortbeginning of April.
I do some speaking and then Ialso do some workshops and
consulting to help.
In the same framework, how doyou insert these intentional
pauses to help you continue tomove forward?
Also, how do you define?
(43:44):
You asked me a question whichis an amazing question.
Also, help people define.
What does success look like toyou?
Because success is differentfor everybody, and so once you
define what success looks likefor you, there's a freedom in it
(44:07):
.
It's an amazing freedom in it,instead of chasing the dream
that the world has for you iswhat we talked about before the
show started.
It's about making sure you'recompleting the task that God has
Exactly, and there's a freedomin that that is just different
than as defined by the world.
Cassandra (44:24):
That's good.
That's good.
How can people get in touchwith you?
Dr. Ebony Stone (44:32):
Oh yeah, Great People can.
My website is just Dr EbonyStone dot com.
Cassandra (44:38):
And.
Dr. Ebony Stone (44:38):
I'm on all the socials Facebook, instagram,
playing with TikTok now that'sinteresting and then mostly on
LinkedIn and all of the handlesare Dr Ebony Stone.
So I'm in all of those places.
And then the book.
The book is on my website, butit's also available as an audio
(45:00):
book and anywhere that you canhave books online.
Cassandra (45:03):
Okay, is the audio books voice yours?
It is?
Oh good, I love those.
I love those.
That was a great learningexperience.
Yeah, it sure was Mine too, butnobody could tell my story like
me, no.
Dr. Ebony Stone (45:20):
Not, at all Not at all.
I remember.
That was interesting, though.
I remember just reading andreading and the girl stops me,
the engineer, and she said, hey,you got to take a break, right,
well, okay, well, what time dowe start tomorrow?
She said, no, no, no, nottomorrow.
Your voice needs a break.
Yeah, it's nothing I've everdone before.
(45:42):
I didn't know.
I said oh okay, well, tell mewhen to come Exactly.
Cassandra (45:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, dr Ebony Stone, it was adelight to have you as a guest
on.
Is your Way In your Way andjust listening to your story,
you were in your way just byyour expectations, how you grew
(46:10):
up and what you thought youshould be doing.
But the body says something'sup Right.
So I just you know, I justthank you.
I got a lot of nuggets out ofthat.
I could relate to your storyand I know I have many listeners
on that can relate to it aswell, and I ask my listeners to
(46:34):
please share this podcast withsomebody where you know this
would be of their best interest,and also, as I always say,
listeners.
Bye for now, god bless and drebony stone, again, it was the
(46:54):
my pleasure to meet you and tospeak with you godspeed,
godspeed, thank you.
Dr. Ebony Stone (47:01):
Thank you for having me sure.
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