September 25, 2025 • 50 mins
Grief specialist Ligia Houben shares powerful insights about common misconceptions surrounding grief, revealing how it extends beyond death to include divorce, job loss, health changes, and even lost security. This enlightening conversation explores the 11 principles of transformation that guide people from pain to healing with practical tools and compassionate understanding.
• Thanatology is the study of death and dying in a society that often avoids these topics
• Grief manifests beyond death—through divorce, job loss, health challenges, and lost security
• Modern society has created distance from death, transforming it from a home-based family experience to a clinical process
• Cultural approaches to death vary widely, with examples like Mexico's Day of the Dead celebrations
• The 11 principles of transformation include accepting loss, living your grief, developing spiritual dimensions, and modifying thoughts
• Creating meaningful rituals helps process grief, like memory boxes at family gatherings
• Grief follows no timeline—we don't "get over it" but learn to integrate it into our lives
• Changing our thoughts about loss can profoundly impact our emotional experience
• Opening our hearts to mortality helps us prioritize love and meaningful connections
Check out Ligia Houben podcast "Transforming Grief" available in both English and Spanish on all major platforms, and visit her website at ligiahouben.com to learn more about her work and books.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 01 (00:01):
Good day out there to all my listeners, and I'd
like to welcome you to Is YourWay in Your Way podcast.
And I'm your host, and my nameis Cassandra Crawley Mayo.
For those new listeners outthere, I just wanted to let you
know I had an interestingquestion before I start this
podcast.
And somebody wanted to know whydid I start it?
(00:24):
And I thought that was a no onehas ever asked me that.
And I started it because I wasin my way.
I had so many limiting beliefsthat have mitigated, that had
prevented me from moving forwardwith what I believe my life was
ordained to do.
Like number one, I alwayswanted to write a book, and it
(00:45):
took me forever to write a bookbecause of those limiting
beliefs.
And I just want to share withyou all that are new to talk to
you about.
First of all, before we divein, I wanted to take a moment,
and I'm not done that, is tothank you.
Thank you so much for being apart of the Is Your Way in Your
(01:07):
Way community.
Actually, this is becoming amovement.
And this podcast is all abouthelping you move past these
barriers so you can truly designand start living your best life
on your turns.
In other words, we're going toget honest about what's holding
you back.
So it uh so I say that to sayif pain, if you're holding on to
(01:33):
pain, confusion, unansweredquestions, grief, know that
you're not alone and help is onthe way.
So let's step into this momenttogether.
Now I'd like to share with youthat we talk about topics
related to personal improvement,self-improvement, sometimes
(01:53):
business improvement, and alsoit's topics that that will I say
will enable you to do someself-reflection.
You may hear a topic that'sthat's holding you back.
And so I want you to just bereal with yourself, be really
open with yourself so that youcan start healing yourself if
(02:16):
that's what it's gonna take foryou to start living your best
life.
So today, our topic is aboutbiggest misconceptions people
have about grief.
And I'm gonna introduce you toour guest.
Her name is Lisia Hubbard.
Hello, Lisia.
(02:37):
How are you?
Speaker 02 (02:38):
How are you, Cassandra?
This is so, so special to be inyour show today.
Speaker 01 (02:43):
Thank you so much.
I am so glad to have you in theshow today.
I'd like to read your biobecause I want my listeners to
understand what qualifies you totalk about this subject about
grief.
What's the biggestmisconception that people have?
So, Lisha Huben, she is a griefspecialist.
(03:06):
She's a thanatologist, and I'mgoing to have her explain what
that means.
Life transitions coach andauthor, whose life's mission is
to help others move from pain tohealing.
Sparked by the loss of herfather at age 12 and later her
mother, she created the 11principles of transformation to
(03:28):
guide others through loss withlove and resilience.
Her internationally acclaimedwork, including her newest book,
Allow Me to Live My Grief andHeal From the Inside Out, offers
hope and practical tools forthose navigating life's most
challenging transitions.
(03:49):
Oh, so Lysia, let me ask youthis.
What does that mean?
I even had to look that up.
Speaker 02 (04:00):
What is that?
Thank you.
Well, yes, you're so right thatwe are not familiar with that
word because, as you may know,Cassandra, we live in a death
denial society, so we do not usethat word much.
So phenatology is the study ofdeath and dying.
(04:25):
So phenatologist, it's someonewho has specialized in death and
dying.
Speaker 01 (04:31):
Yeah.
Wow, this is gonna be great.
Someone that has specialized indeath and life.
Wow.
Well, let me ask you what Iknow that your your father, uh,
we talked about that, had passedwhen you were at a young age.
What else inspired you to be agrief specialist, life
(04:52):
transition coach, and athnatologist?
Share your personal story andhow it how it inspired you to do
so.
Speaker 02 (05:00):
Thank you for the opportunity because this is so
close to my heart.
So close to my heart to be ableto help others going through
grief and loss.
And how did I, I will tell you,how did I discover my mission,
my purpose in life?
I was studying, I live inMiami, Florida, and I was
(05:21):
studying at the University ofMiami.
I was studying psychology, andthen I wanted to add another
major religious studies, becausethere was a course, you know,
in that department thatattracted me like a magnet,
Cassandra, like a magnet, and itwas Death and Dying.
And when I Death and Dying, sowhen I took that course, it
(05:46):
opened, it opened not only myeyes, but my heart.
So each time I went to class, Iwould cry.
And I would cry, and because Ihad not faced, you know, the
(06:09):
word death and dying and grief.
And I was like, grief?
What is grief?
You know, all these things cameto me so strongly that that's
when I decided in thatclassroom, so it was a blessing
in disguise, right?
When we say that, I discoveredin that classroom, wow, I want
(06:29):
to do this.
This is my mission in life, andthat's how I you know developed
into my studies and all that.
I became a phonatologist, Ispecialized in grief, and then
the other my other passion, ifyou will, is working with older
adults.
I love older adults, so I alsostudy gerontology, which is the
(06:56):
study of aging.
Yeah, that's why I mentionedlife transitions, because we go
through so many transitions inlife.
One of them, of course, isaging, taking care of our aging
parents.
So I put together, you know, mymy way of working with people
is moving through transitions,and if in one of those
(07:19):
transitions, there is grief,there is loss.
So we work together, we use theresources we have inside,
because we all do, and then tobe able to transform that loss
and transform our lives.
Speaker 01 (07:35):
Well, let's talk about grief.
Is grief only about losing aloved one?
Speaker 02 (07:43):
Absolutely no.
And that is, and thank you forasking that, because that is a
huge misconception that it isonly when we lose a loved one.
Because, you know, when peopleknew that I was doing this, that
I was starting to work in thefield, they would say, like,
you're gonna be working, youknow, with the death of a loved
one.
You know, people think, youknow, like I how depressing I'm
(08:06):
like depressing.
First, on the contrary, this isso sacred.
This is from heart to heartwhen you work with people losing
a loved one.
Now, we want to open our mindsto other types of losses,
Cassandra.
There is the loss of when youlose your partner through
(08:27):
divorce or a breakup, there isthe loss, loss of health when we
you know develop a healthcondition, an illness.
Yeah, there is the loss of ajob, you know, when we lose our
job.
There is a loss when weexperience natural disasters and
we lose, we may lose our home.
(08:48):
These are things that aretangible, you know, like this
happened.
However, we may also lose hope,we may also lose a sense of
security.
You know that happens when whenwe went through COVID, you
know, the pandemic, yeah, weexperienced so many types of
(09:08):
losses, Cassandra.
Loss from the from the conceptof what safety meant when the
concept of our assumptive world,the world we knew, it
shattered.
So all those things, and somany, there are different types
of losses, and we don't talkabout it because sometimes
(09:30):
people say, I am depressed,yeah, I'm depressed, and then we
start talking about losses, andwe do a history of losses, and
then what they realize is thatwhat they are, they are greedy,
the loss that they experienced.
Speaker 01 (09:45):
With your study with um um thanatologists, what is
it that my listeners can learnfrom that particular study that
you've done?
And and because you are athanatologist.
Speaker 02 (10:02):
Okay, thanatology is the study of death and dying
under different because we can'tstudy death under so many
different concepts, but when wetalk about the sociological
perspective, is in how we seedeath in society.
So we start seeing that how ithas changed, you know, from
(10:25):
other times.
For example, Cassandra, beforepeople die at home, yeah.
People who die at home, theywould even uh build the caskets,
the family would build thecaskets, they would place the
caskets, what they would callthe parlor, you know, it would
be like it's like a living room,you know.
(10:47):
That when my father died, youknow, I was living in Nicaragua
back then, and we had the wake,we had it at home, uh-huh.
We had it in the liver room athome, so but we're talking about
medieval times that was sodifferent.
The when people died, thefamily would be surrounding the
dying person.
(11:07):
So, what happens with time andand technology and medicine and
all that, that sometimes, and itis a blessing that so many
things can be done now.
However, there has been adistance with death.
There has been a distance, andthat's why now that we have
(11:27):
hospice, you know, that way thatphilosophy of care, that it's
when you know, you take care ofthe dying patient, the dying
person, and the family, and theidea is to keep them
comfortable, you know, not toextend life, but keep them
comfortable.
And many times you havehospice.
(11:48):
I had it with my mom.
You have uh you have hospice athome, so people die at home.
So we talk about all thesedifferent aspects, you know, of
death.
We talk about the culture, youknow.
For example, the Hispanicculture, you may know about how
Mexicans they celebrate the theday of the dead, el Dia de los
(12:12):
Muertos, the Day of the Dead,and it is a spirit and a very
unique ritual that they have,Mexicans.
We do not have any Nicaragua,so it's very unique to that
particular culture.
Have you ever watched the movieCoco?
Speaker 01 (12:29):
No, I have not.
Speaker 02 (12:31):
Cassandra, I totally recommend it to you and all the
beautiful people who arewatching us.
Coco, and it's an animatedmovie, but it shows you the
culture, it shows you you knowwhat happens the day of the
dead, and it has to do a lotwith how people grieve.
It's it is beautiful, it issuch a beautiful.
(12:52):
How do you spell that?
Okay, it's C-O-C-O, Coco.
Speaker 01 (12:59):
Oh, T S N Tom?
No, C S N Charles.
Okay, C-O-C-O.
Okay.
C-O-C-O, Coco.
Speaker 02 (13:09):
Okay, okay.
It's it's amazing, it'sbeautiful.
So we learn through differentthings, you know, about death
and dying.
We also talk because it'sinteresting.
I learned about this, about mymission, when I took that course
on death and dying, andeventually, after many years, I
(13:30):
happened to teach it at theuniversity.
Okay, I taught death and dying,and the way that I taught that
class was yes, it was aboutdeath.
However, I emphasized life.
I I said it to my my studentsthat the more aware we are that
(13:52):
we are going to die, that ourloved ones are going to die, we
may give even more meaning tolife, you know, and we would
live with more gratitude, morelove, more ability to forgive.
And it was a beautiful coursebecause you know, I taught it
(14:14):
several times, and and then Itaught it online for another
university, but that's what Idid with my students, you know,
for them to be aware, and theywill share that the the topic of
death, it was a taboo in theirfamilies, you know.
Okay, people wouldn't talkabout it.
Speaker 01 (14:33):
Well, let me ask you based on your your education in
that field and even teachingit, what are some of the things
that my listeners could learnfrom your teaching and your
knowledge that you don't thinkthey're really aware of the
importance of talking about it.
Speaker 02 (14:57):
It's not going to happen because that's one of the
greatest taboos that peoplethink that if we're going to be
talking about it, it may happen,you know, about death.
And it is something that peoplehave what we call sometimes
phanatophobia, which is fear ofdeath.
(15:17):
So, something that we talkabout is the importance of to
start having the conversation,start having the conversation
about death, because it issomething that happens to us,
it's part of life, it's the endof life, and it depends so much
(15:39):
on our attitude, how we take it.
Because sometimes if we push itaway, if we put it on the
shelf, it's more present, thefear is more present.
However, if we sorry, if wetalk about it, then we can have
that conversation.
There are different conceptsbased on your religion as well.
(16:00):
Religion has a big impact onhow we see death and dying.
And for example, the concept ofthe afterlife, the concept of
what happens near deathexperience.
You may have heard about NDE.
Speaker 01 (16:15):
Yes.
Speaker 02 (16:15):
So, what happens then?
Because it is based on so manystudies.
So, all these things, manypeople, when they are grieving
and they they learn about NDE,that gives them hope because
they feel that they're going toconnect with their loved ones
again, you know, after they die,they're gonna they're gonna
(16:38):
come and you know and greetthem.
So there's so many concepts.
We also talk about suicide inthat course and the importance
to again have the conversationbecause it is a taboo, people
don't talk about it, even whenthey experience that loss.
(16:58):
That is such a painful loss.
I have clients who have lostloved ones to suicide, and they
tell me, Ligia, people don'teven want to ask me how I feel,
because they don't even want totouch the subject, and people
need to be seen, people need tobe heard, and to have that
(17:18):
conversation.
And if someone, so I rememberthat's something that we said,
you know, um, based on thetextbook and what we we talked
about.
If someone mentions the ideathat I don't want to live
anymore, I want to kill myself,all those things.
Many people say, I don't saythat, you know, don't say those
(17:40):
things, you know.
No, if they are saying that,you want to hold the space, you
want to allow them to talk aboutthat because you don't know if
they already have a plan, youdon't know, right?
Speaker 01 (17:53):
Exactly.
Speaker 02 (17:54):
So it's important, Cassandra, to talk about these
things, yeah.
Speaker 01 (17:59):
And and they don't, as you indicated, because it's
like it's taboo, or like youtalk about depression or
suicide, uh, and everybody isdifferent in regards to the
death of suicide.
There sometimes people we don'tknow what to say.
And I remember I had a relativewhose father passed, and you
(18:24):
know, I went and visited, youknow, like my parents did, I did
what they did.
And I asked the question, wasthere anything I could do?
And she looked at me like I wascrazy.
And I sincerely meant that, butand I talked to my mom, she
says, you just do, you know,because when it happens, people
don't know what to do.
You know, just kind of bethere.
(18:45):
You need to give them theirspace, feel them out, you know,
because if you ask somebody,it's like, okay, and don't say,
um, time will heal.
You don't know, you know, youknow, so that's why people are
at odds of how do I respond tothat?
You know, from yourexperiences, how how have you
(19:07):
responded or any thoughts onresponding to someone who's lost
a loved one?
Now we already talked about youcan lose a job, you can lose a
divorce, a breakup, all of thosethings.
But at this moment, we'retalking about grief.
We're talking about thegrieving in regards to the loss
of a loved one, because that'swhat your education, your
(19:29):
knowledge, yes, what you'vetaught.
And uh, so at share with us howwould you, what are some ways
or some thoughts you have on howyou would respond to someone
who's in a loved one committedsuicide or a loved one who's
lost someone?
How would you respond?
Or is there no certainresponse?
Speaker 02 (19:52):
Thank you for the question, because those things,
you know, when you mentionedtime will heal, and it's what we
call euphemisms, euphemisms.
People say things like tosoften, you know, and to to make
it sound better, and all thosethings, and people sometimes
(20:13):
bring religious concepts, youknow, they are in heaven, now
they are with God, now they areresting, they they were
suffering, all these things, andor even the even the I'm sorry,
many people don't like that.
So, because you know, I uhworking with my clients, I went
(20:33):
through the loss of my mom fiveyears ago, and my sisters two
years ago.
So it's the best thing that wecan do, and that's what I say
because and I mean it with myheart.
It's like I accompany you, myheart is with you, I accompany
you with my love.
I am here, so the presence isimportant.
(20:56):
The presence is important,okay, not trying to fix them
right because we cannot fix thebereaved, we cannot fix the
grief, we can only accompany thebereaved, okay, okay.
Yes, and when something, forexample, as you said before, is
(21:17):
there something I can do?
And there are so many things wecan do, however, the griever
doesn't come and say it to youif they need you, they don't
it's very it's very rare thatthey would do that.
So, what is great that helps alot is if we are aware of the
(21:38):
needs they may have.
For example, you have a friendthat lost her husband and has
two kids, you know.
So you know that she takes themto school.
Let's say that they don't ridethe bus, they you know, she
takes them to school, so youknow that she has to do that,
(21:59):
and after losing the husband,most likely that's the last
thing she wants to do.
So he come and say, you knowwhat, for the next month I'll be
taking your children to school.
So you are offering somethingspecific, you know, something
that she will be so so grateful,or you can say for the next
(22:22):
month I'll be doing yourgroceries, you know.
Speaker 01 (22:25):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 02 (22:26):
So things like those, then that is you know,
specific, and they would totallyappreciate it because you know
what?
Now that I mentioned that, oneof the things that can be the
most painful, incredible, it'sgoing to the supermarket after
losing your loved one.
Yeah, it's amazing.
(22:47):
I have heard that.
I remember when I experiencedit after my mom because I was my
mom's caretaker, becauseCassandra, my mother was a
centenarian, she died when shewas 100 years old.
Oh wow, yes, she was she was anapple in my eye, and so I
remember after she died that Iwent to publics.
(23:08):
You know, here is the verywell-known chain of
supermarkets, and I would loveto buy for her, you know,
pudding or jello, you know,those things.
I remember the first time I sawthat.
Oh, I would bring her in herwheelchair, and uh, people loved
her because she was supersweet, she would talk to
(23:29):
everybody, and they would bringher, they would bring her
donuts, you know.
So the first time I went, andthey were like, In your mommy
and your mom, and just by thequestion, you know, and say I
would say, you know, she died,and sometimes people felt so bad
that they, you know, but goingto the grocery can be very
(23:50):
painful the first time, yeah.
Speaker 01 (23:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Let's talk about your you have11 principles for transformation
of uh into from pain into hope,strength, and renewal.
Let's talk about thoseprinciples.
Speaker 02 (24:09):
Those principles are, I love the principles, and
I'll tell you how they wereborn.
When I when I wrote the myfirst book about grief, yeah,
it's called Transform Your Loss,Your Guide to Strength and
Hope.
When I was writing that book,you know, I talk about what
losses are, as you said, notonly death, what how grief is
(24:33):
manifested, because it is notonly through crying, you know,
it can be expressed physically,you know, headaches, migraines,
you know, even backache,insomnia, you know, so many ways
to be expressed socially,isolating or going out, not
stopping.
Um, emotionally, of course, youknow, different emotions,
anger, sadness, guilt,spiritually, sometimes getting
(24:58):
angry with God, getting angrylife.
Speaker 01 (25:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (25:02):
Or on the other hand, you can find meaning.
So, because again, grief isunique.
And so I was writing the book,it has 60 real stories, but then
I said, I want to givesomething to the reader, I want
to give them tools to help them,and that's how they came to be
(25:22):
the 11 principles.
I started writing them, andthen they were 11, and and
touched my heart because I juststopped then, right?
And it touched my heart becausemy father died on November 11.
Speaker 01 (25:38):
Okay.
Speaker 02 (25:38):
So when that happens, 11, like, oh my god,
they were close to my heart.
So I created them, and it's amethodology, you know.
I it's you know, uh registeredand also a methodology.
I have I have done seminars, Ido seminars, workshops, uh,
online programs with that.
And what is the purpose?
(25:59):
The purpose is to help peopletake them from the beginning
when they are facing a loss,painful, and we know that the
hardest thing is to accept whathappened.
However, what is the country ofaccepting?
Denying, resisting.
(26:22):
How are we going to heal if weare resisting, if we are
denying?
So the first one is accept yourloss, and that by itself is a
process, and then that's thefirst one, and an acceptance is
not that you don't care aboutit, that's okay.
No, it's coming to terms withthe fact, the reality, this has
(26:44):
happened that is horrible, thatis super painful.
Yes, it is, it has so that'sthe first principle.
The second one is because Iacknowledge that there is pain,
the second one is live yourgrief, live your grief.
It is what has happened becausegrief is the natural and unique
(27:05):
response to loss.
So that however, with time, Irealize that many people either
they don't give themselvespermission to grieve, to grief,
and they want to jump the secondprinciple, or society or family
would say, no, no, no, no.
Yeah, it's enough time to youknow stop crying, stop talking
(27:29):
about them.
That's about time you you knowlet go of your black clothes,
whatever.
You and if they are young, it'sabout time you start dating
again.
So, no, no, it's gonna I hearso many things, Cassandra.
And if they lost a baby, oh,but you're young, you can have
another baby, but I lost thisone, so so many things, and but
(27:52):
sometimes it is really hard tolive the grief.
That's why I called my latestbook, Allow Me to Live My Grief,
right?
No time limit on it, exactly,and then and then heal and heal
from the inside out becausethat's what it is.
That's another misconceptionthat people think that if you
(28:13):
are grieving, it's gonna beworse.
No, I was so mindful when my Ilost my mom, and as I said, she
was the apple of my eye, but Iwas so mindful grieving the loss
of my mom that I will never behow I am, and and like this, I
am you know so years ago, right?
Because I was so present to mygrief.
(28:36):
So that's a second principle.
Then the third is expand youryour develop your spiritual
dimension, and when I sayspiritual, I am not talking
about being religious.
If you are religious,beautiful.
However, I talk about beingspiritual, the value of being
grateful, of being able toforgive, of loving.
(28:59):
Those are this the threespiritual tools I believe
they're so powerful in ourlives.
So, what was the third?
Expand your what?
No, develop your spiritualdimension.
Speaker 01 (29:10):
Oh, okay, dimension.
Okay.
Speaker 02 (29:13):
All these are if you go to my website,
mythiahooven.com, there it saysabout you know the 11
principles, and there they allstated there.
Speaker 01 (29:22):
Uh-huh.
Okay.
Speaker 02 (29:24):
Yes.
And then the fourth one isexpress your feelings, express
how you feel, you know, get ridof the mask, stop pretending,
express how you feel.
Number fifth, number five isshare with others.
Share with others.
We are not an island, it's soimportant.
(29:44):
This the support, socialsupport, so important.
Speaker 01 (29:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (29:48):
Number six is take care of yourself because it
happens, Cassandra.
It may have happened to you, Idon't know, but sometimes we
just don't feel like.
Taking care of ourselves afterwhat we can, and it's so
important.
So that would be number six.
Number seven, doing ritualsbecause rituals help us.
(30:12):
You know, rituals are symbolic,so they can help us.
Number eight is live the now,just like being mindful, you
know, being mindful.
Live the now.
Don't dwell in the past.
Don't worry about the future.
I don't say don't plan thefuture.
That's different.
(30:33):
But worrying is different.
So don't worry about thefuture, live the now.
Because the now is the onlything we have.
Speaker 01 (30:41):
Right.
Speaker 02 (30:42):
Yes.
So that would be number eight.
Number nine, which I love itbecause I I work a lot with
that.
Modify your thoughts.
Because we are able, we areable to change our thoughts.
We may not be able, of course,to change events.
However, something that we canalways change 100% of the time
(31:06):
are our thoughts.
And I've been I've been talkingabout this, Cassandra, for over
20 years.
And I am always say that, Ibelieve in that, and all that.
When I confirmed it, it was themost painful time in my life,
you know, after my mother died,it had been the greatest loss
(31:27):
was my father, then my mom.
But I was able to change mythoughts, and I was taken by
that.
I was like, oh my god, thisreally works.
Because thoughts, emotions,actions based on how we think,
we feel, and based on how wefeel, we act.
(31:50):
And I applied that so muchafter validating how I felt, I
always validated how I felt.
Then I would choose the emotionI wanted to feel, and generally
it was peace.
I know, so I wanted to feelpeace because yes, we can feel
grief, we can feel sad, yes,missing them, and at the same
(32:12):
time, we can be in peacetotally.
So that helped me a lot.
My thoughts then number 10th isrebuild the world, rebuild your
world.
So you build again your worldafter you have included loss in
that world because it is part ofyour story.
(32:34):
We cannot erase it, ithappened, so we rebuild it
again.
You know, it's like when theysay picking up the pieces, yeah,
uh-huh.
So we rebuild it, and thennumber 11th is visualize the
life you want.
Okay, because it's it's achoice, you know, it's a choice
(33:00):
how we want to live.
And and one of the things I askpeople, you know, when we do
the seminars, okay.
I ask, please raise your handif you want to be happy.
Be happy.
So that is the first, the firstthing that has to be present if
you want to live a better life.
Like the will, the desire, Iwant to be happy.
(33:23):
And when we do that, we canbring then our purpose, the
meaning, the purpose, and thenwe can visualize that life.
Speaker 01 (33:33):
You know, there were two principles I I want to
expound on.
One was rituals.
Can you describe like a ritual?
Like, what do you mean byhaving a ritual?
Give me an example of a ritual.
Speaker 02 (33:47):
Okay, thank you.
Because rituals are doingsomething that has special
meaning to you.
I'll give you an example,something so simple.
We have dinner.
Well, supposedly, you know, wehave dinner every every day,
every night.
We have dinner now.
There is a dinner or lunch,depending how you celebrate,
(34:09):
that happens every year that hasa special meaning.
Which one is that?
We have a dinner that happensonce a year that is very
symbolic, and we celebrate.
Speaker 01 (34:24):
It could be Easter, Christmas, or Thanksgiving.
Right.
Uh-huh.
Speaker 02 (34:29):
So that is a ritual.
Speaker 01 (34:31):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 02 (34:32):
Something that an action that has special meaning.
For example, you can come home,and if you are like me, that I
love candles, you may come homeand you know, just you know, you
light a candle, it has a greatsmell, aroma, gives you an
atmosphere.
Fantastic.
Okay, right.
(34:53):
But if you lost your loved oneand you get home and you go and
you light a candle in front ofhis picture, and you say prayer,
or you say some words, that isa reach.
Speaker 01 (35:08):
Okay, now let me talk about um number 10.
Did you say build your world?
Well, build it again, rebuild,rebuild it.
Okay, what does that mean?
Reveal your world, like how canone do that?
Speaker 02 (35:23):
Okay, rebuild meaning building, you know, you
rebuild when you are buildingsomething because when we lose a
loved one, and sometimes whenwe lose other things, our world
feels that it shattered, thatit's destroyed, that it's
shattered.
So when you rebuild it, you areputting the pieces again, you
(35:49):
put the foundation again.
When I do the seminars and theactivity that we do, because I
love to do activities with eachprincipal, the activities I do
with them is I use Lego blocks.
Lego blocks, so it's like ametaphor, you know.
When they are you know creatingsomething with Lego blocks,
(36:12):
they are building the same waythey are building with Lego
blocks, they can rebuild theirlife after a loss.
So because with when a losshappens, and you know this,
Cassandra, it's the life we hadbefore the loss, yeah, the life
we have now, and the life we'llhave after a loss.
(36:36):
Okay, so that's the life we arerebuilding with the loss inside
of us.
Speaker 01 (36:43):
Okay, let's use Thanksgiving for a minute.
I remember uh when I my momtransitioned, and Thanksgiving
was big, and uh that's where Iused to always go.
I was always out of town.
I was I never moved back towhere I grew up, but I would
always go back to where myparents were.
(37:04):
And Thanksgiving was tough forme because my mom was the
matriarch of the family, so shewas the one to get everybody
together.
So, how could I reveal, rebuildmy world around that particular
holiday, for example?
Speaker 02 (37:20):
Thank you, beauty.
You make such amazingquestions.
Well, you can create newtraditions, okay?
You can create new traditions,you can honor if there's a
specific dish that your momliked, did he did she cook?
Okay, well, you can you cancook the special dish that she
(37:44):
liked, okay, honoring her.
Okay, you can find a recipe andyou can honor your mom just
cooking that dish, having thatrecipe that she liked, and then
you make it present, okay.
Because your mom, notphysically, you know, she's not
physically, but she'll always bethere.
(38:05):
So that is something.
Do you know what else you cando?
You're going to love this,you're going to love this
Cassandra.
And you can do this thisThanksgiving.
When you have, let's say thatyou have it at home.
So you invite people, and thenat the at the entrance of your
(38:25):
house, I'm trying to see if Ihave something here.
Okay, I'm gonna show yousomething.
Okay, I'm going to move this.
No, well, I don't have to showit.
I'm going to say it's a notbecause I don't want to move
this, it's a chest.
You know, you can place a chestat the entrance of your house.
You know, there on a on atable, you put a chest and then
(38:47):
or a box, but beautiful, make itbeautiful.
May even you can even decorateit a box, you know.
You can go to Hobby Lobby andyou can decorate it beautifully,
right?
And then place it there on atable and place some um like
these blank cards, yeah.
These blank cards with with apen next to them, and then you
(39:09):
say, Okay, write on that cardsomething that you feel grateful
for having my mom in your life,something grateful about my
mom, and then everybody puts itinside of the chest, yeah.
And then you have dinner, youhave your Thanksgiving, you talk
(39:33):
about you know the recipe, thedish, my mom, and you beautiful.
And then after you guys havedinner, you know, with your
family, then you go to theliving room and you bring the
box, so you place it in youknow, there in the center, and
then you start uh reading thedifferent things.
That it's such a beautifulritual.
(39:55):
I have said this for many yearswhen because I do a seminar
called Navigating the Holidayswhen we're grieving.
Yeah, that is one of the of therituals I share with families
that they can do because we dothis navigating the holidays
before Thanksgiving.
Because you we knowThanksgiving, you know, the
(40:17):
holidays start withThanksgiving.
Yeah, and we we did it thisyear, November 2nd, at a funeral
home.
It was so beautiful, and I andI came and I brought you know
examples with there, so peoplelike that.
Speaker 01 (40:32):
Yeah, that's okay.
Speaker 02 (40:35):
I have done it also personally, yeah, and it's
beautiful.
We you we love it because thenyou read you know all the
things, how your mom toucheddifferent lives.
Speaker 01 (40:46):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I that's beautiful.
Uh, because when we havefunerals, um, homegoings, you
know, people call it differentthings, and just to hear the
remarks makes you smile, youknow what they did, and you
know, what the commonality aboutyour loved one, and that does
bring a smile and laughter toyou.
(41:07):
So I think that's an excellentidea around the holidays.
And as you said, um visualizeyour life.
The last thing is how how howdo you want to feel?
So all these all theseprinciples I thought were great,
but I no buts.
The only thing I would just addis it's going to take time.
(41:30):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it'll it'll it'll taketime, you know, and if you
really want to, I don't know ifyou ever get over the grieving,
you're the grieve coach.
Um I know I you know my mom'sbeen gone about two to three
years now, and somethinghappened the other day, and I
just started crying.
(41:51):
And I was like, oh my gosh.
So it's like an ongoing thing,and it always will be for even
my dad.
So I I I um so that as youindicate, there's no time, like
you said, live your grief.
There's no timeline, notimeline.
Speaker 02 (42:08):
There's no timeline, and thank you for sharing that
because I mentioned that in mylatest book, and allow me to
live my grief.
That um Dr.
Rosenbad he talks aboutrecurrent grief.
Grief is recurrent, yeah, andit doesn't have okay.
Today I stopped grieving, it'snot like that.
(42:29):
We we learn to live with ourgrief, yeah.
We learn to live with it, butwe don't have sometimes a
tsunami that appears out ofnowhere, exactly that was a
trigger, and then we felt that,and then that's a huge tsunami.
Some other times we may have asmall wave, yeah, and sometimes
(42:52):
it's just there, but it's acompanion.
The moment that we let go ofthe fear of grief, that we
understand it happens, and welearn how to live with that, we
are able to move from a place ofsuffering to a place of
honoring with love, yeah, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 01 (43:15):
And I also know that individuals that have lost a
loved one, they also can findtheir purpose, or they'll also
start realizing life is short.
You know, I better give, Ibetter get going tomorrow.
It could be my day, you know.
Um, so I I like the the the umwhat did I call it?
I'm like, what what is thatword?
(43:36):
What you do, the study of yourum phenotologists, that study
about the living and the dead,and how no, it's it's a study of
death and dying.
Speaker 02 (43:51):
Dying, death and dying, dying, yes.
Speaker 01 (43:54):
Okay, okay.
Um, so that means thetransition part is the dying.
Yes, right.
Speaker 02 (44:00):
When like you said, you you you have a passion for
the elderly, yes, and and it'slike I used to be before taking
care of my mom when she gotolder, I was a Vitas volunteer.
Vitas is a hospice, and it'swhen when you accompany people
when they're dying, that can beso sacred, and it's a process,
(44:23):
you know, and we talk about whatit is a process and what
involves.
So there's so many things, theso many things, but what I
suggest so much to youraudience, to your beautiful
audience who's listening tothis, to open their hearts, to
open their hearts to thisreality that will happen to all
(44:44):
of us, yeah, to loved ones, andto give more love, to fight
less, to to you know, to not tofocus on problems and
challenges, on you know, no, toopen our hearts more to love.
Speaker 01 (44:59):
Yeah, because at the end of the day, exactly, right?
Exactly.
And I in my book I wrote, uh, Ididn't write it, but there was
a I I permission to write itcalled The Dash.
And I don't know whether you'veheard of that, but it's it's
actually a phenomenal poem, andit talks more about what did you
(45:19):
do during your dash, not thebeginning, not the end.
How do you want to beremembered?
What's your legacy?
You know, so I I thought thatwas great to end on about the
dying and the death, how youstudied that, and uh, and just
the work that you're doingaround this, I think is
(45:40):
beautiful.
And many people, many peoplewill be blessed by what you've
done and the outcomes thatyou've been providing for people
because death is inevitable,you know.
Like you said, we're all gonnadie.
Yeah, yeah.
So, Lisa, tell us again how wecan contact you.
(46:02):
How can you be contacted?
Speaker 02 (46:04):
Your website, yes.
I have the website that is myname, Ligiahuben.com.
And I I am also very present onsocial media and Instagram,
Facebook.
Oh, I want to say somethingbecause I have a podcast, it's
only audio, it is not video, andit's and it's bilingual, you
(46:28):
know, in Spanish and Spanish andEnglish, and it's called
Transforming Grief.
Speaker 01 (46:35):
Okay, transforming grief.
Speaker 02 (46:37):
It is in Spotify and you know in all audio
platforms, and it consists ofshort messages between six to
fifteen minutes, okay, short ondifferent topics regarding
grief, different topics, and Ihave the same topic in English
(46:57):
and Spanish, and they aretitled.
So if you go to the you know tothe podcast, you may choose
what you want to hear about, youknow.
Yes, so because what I wantedto do, and this was after my mom
died, what I wanted to do isfor the griever to feel
accompanied, you know, to feelaccompanied and understood, you
(47:19):
know, validated.
So that's the purpose with thepodcast.
So I invite you, you know, tolisten to it and to your
audience to listen to that aswell.
Speaker 01 (47:28):
I am so glad that you said that, uh, because I'm
gonna put that in the show notesthat you're bilingual, yeah, so
that exactly, yeah, you canhear it in Spanish and in
English.
One more question before weclose.
I live near a cemetery, andevery now and then I'll hear
people singing.
And what I did hear thatHispanic, and I don't know how
(47:52):
true this is, they will go totheir loved ones' grave and have
a celebration and sing.
Speaker 02 (47:58):
Is that is that well, maybe they are Mexican,
they may be Mexican.
Speaker 01 (48:02):
They could be Mexican, okay.
Speaker 02 (48:04):
All right, yes, how interesting you asked that.
So you may want to well, firstcheck that movie I mentioned,
Coco, because it's so cool, it'sadorable, adorable.
And then, you know, uh, tolearn a little bit more about
the day, the day of the dead.
Okay, it's amazing, it's anincredible ritual they have, and
it's it's so pot, it's sospiritual, so potent.
(48:26):
They oh my god, they if theyeven make bread of the dead.
So bread in the shape of askeleton.
No, it's amazing what they do.
It's amazing what they do.
So you you're going to enjoylearning about that.
Okay, and cocoa, right?
Cocoa, and cocoa exactly.
Speaker 01 (48:43):
Okay, well, Lydia, thank you so much.
Lisha, thank you so much foryour time, your your words of
wisdom, uh enabling us to seewhat the misconception of grief
is.
And I'm certain that many of mylisteners have learned a lot in
regards to death because theyknow too that one day they'll
(49:05):
they will be transitioning aswell, in addition to their loved
ones.
So, like I always tell my mylisteners to please, if you
found this of value, which youhave, I know.
Please share it with someoneand bless them as well.
And hit subscribe and clicklike.
I was so much appreciated.
And sure, and Lisha would dothe same.
(49:27):
Thanks again, Alicia.
Bye for now.
Speaker 02 (49:30):
Thank you so much.
My heart to you and all theblessings.
Thank you.
Speaker 01 (49:35):
Thank you.
God bless.
Good day out there to all my listeners, and I'd
like to welcome you to Is YourWay in Your Way podcast.
And I'm your host, and my nameis Cassandra Crawley Mayo.
For those new listeners outthere, I just wanted to let you
know I had an interestingquestion before I start this
podcast.
And somebody wanted to know whydid I start it?
(00:24):
And I thought that was a no onehas ever asked me that.
And I started it because I wasin my way.
I had so many limiting beliefsthat have mitigated, that had
prevented me from moving forwardwith what I believe my life was
ordained to do.
Like number one, I alwayswanted to write a book, and it
(00:45):
took me forever to write a bookbecause of those limiting
beliefs.
And I just want to share withyou all that are new to talk to
you about.
First of all, before we divein, I wanted to take a moment,
and I'm not done that, is tothank you.
Thank you so much for being apart of the Is Your Way in Your
(01:07):
Way community.
Actually, this is becoming amovement.
And this podcast is all abouthelping you move past these
barriers so you can truly designand start living your best life
on your turns.
In other words, we're going toget honest about what's holding
you back.
So it uh so I say that to sayif pain, if you're holding on to
(01:33):
pain, confusion, unansweredquestions, grief, know that
you're not alone and help is onthe way.
So let's step into this momenttogether.
Now I'd like to share with youthat we talk about topics
related to personal improvement,self-improvement, sometimes
(01:53):
business improvement, and alsoit's topics that that will I say
will enable you to do someself-reflection.
You may hear a topic that'sthat's holding you back.
And so I want you to just bereal with yourself, be really
open with yourself so that youcan start healing yourself if
(02:16):
that's what it's gonna take foryou to start living your best
life.
So today, our topic is aboutbiggest misconceptions people
have about grief.
And I'm gonna introduce you toour guest.
Her name is Lisia Hubbard.
Hello, Lisia.
(02:37):
How are you?
Speaker 02 (02:38):
How are you, Cassandra?
This is so, so special to be inyour show today.
Speaker 01 (02:43):
Thank you so much.
I am so glad to have you in theshow today.
I'd like to read your biobecause I want my listeners to
understand what qualifies you totalk about this subject about
grief.
What's the biggestmisconception that people have?
So, Lisha Huben, she is a griefspecialist.
(03:06):
She's a thanatologist, and I'mgoing to have her explain what
that means.
Life transitions coach andauthor, whose life's mission is
to help others move from pain tohealing.
Sparked by the loss of herfather at age 12 and later her
mother, she created the 11principles of transformation to
(03:28):
guide others through loss withlove and resilience.
Her internationally acclaimedwork, including her newest book,
Allow Me to Live My Grief andHeal From the Inside Out, offers
hope and practical tools forthose navigating life's most
challenging transitions.
(03:49):
Oh, so Lysia, let me ask youthis.
What does that mean?
I even had to look that up.
Speaker 02 (04:00):
What is that?
Thank you.
Well, yes, you're so right thatwe are not familiar with that
word because, as you may know,Cassandra, we live in a death
denial society, so we do not usethat word much.
So phenatology is the study ofdeath and dying.
(04:25):
So phenatologist, it's someonewho has specialized in death and
dying.
Speaker 01 (04:31):
Yeah.
Wow, this is gonna be great.
Someone that has specialized indeath and life.
Wow.
Well, let me ask you what Iknow that your your father, uh,
we talked about that, had passedwhen you were at a young age.
What else inspired you to be agrief specialist, life
(04:52):
transition coach, and athnatologist?
Share your personal story andhow it how it inspired you to do
so.
Speaker 02 (05:00):
Thank you for the opportunity because this is so
close to my heart.
So close to my heart to be ableto help others going through
grief and loss.
And how did I, I will tell you,how did I discover my mission,
my purpose in life?
I was studying, I live inMiami, Florida, and I was
(05:21):
studying at the University ofMiami.
I was studying psychology, andthen I wanted to add another
major religious studies, becausethere was a course, you know,
in that department thatattracted me like a magnet,
Cassandra, like a magnet, and itwas Death and Dying.
And when I Death and Dying, sowhen I took that course, it
(05:46):
opened, it opened not only myeyes, but my heart.
So each time I went to class, Iwould cry.
And I would cry, and because Ihad not faced, you know, the
(06:09):
word death and dying and grief.
And I was like, grief?
What is grief?
You know, all these things cameto me so strongly that that's
when I decided in thatclassroom, so it was a blessing
in disguise, right?
When we say that, I discoveredin that classroom, wow, I want
(06:29):
to do this.
This is my mission in life, andthat's how I you know developed
into my studies and all that.
I became a phonatologist, Ispecialized in grief, and then
the other my other passion, ifyou will, is working with older
adults.
I love older adults, so I alsostudy gerontology, which is the
(06:56):
study of aging.
Yeah, that's why I mentionedlife transitions, because we go
through so many transitions inlife.
One of them, of course, isaging, taking care of our aging
parents.
So I put together, you know, mymy way of working with people
is moving through transitions,and if in one of those
(07:19):
transitions, there is grief,there is loss.
So we work together, we use theresources we have inside,
because we all do, and then tobe able to transform that loss
and transform our lives.
Speaker 01 (07:35):
Well, let's talk about grief.
Is grief only about losing aloved one?
Speaker 02 (07:43):
Absolutely no.
And that is, and thank you forasking that, because that is a
huge misconception that it isonly when we lose a loved one.
Because, you know, when peopleknew that I was doing this, that
I was starting to work in thefield, they would say, like,
you're gonna be working, youknow, with the death of a loved
one.
You know, people think, youknow, like I how depressing I'm
(08:06):
like depressing.
First, on the contrary, this isso sacred.
This is from heart to heartwhen you work with people losing
a loved one.
Now, we want to open our mindsto other types of losses,
Cassandra.
There is the loss of when youlose your partner through
(08:27):
divorce or a breakup, there isthe loss, loss of health when we
you know develop a healthcondition, an illness.
Yeah, there is the loss of ajob, you know, when we lose our
job.
There is a loss when weexperience natural disasters and
we lose, we may lose our home.
(08:48):
These are things that aretangible, you know, like this
happened.
However, we may also lose hope,we may also lose a sense of
security.
You know that happens when whenwe went through COVID, you
know, the pandemic, yeah, weexperienced so many types of
(09:08):
losses, Cassandra.
Loss from the from the conceptof what safety meant when the
concept of our assumptive world,the world we knew, it
shattered.
So all those things, and somany, there are different types
of losses, and we don't talkabout it because sometimes
(09:30):
people say, I am depressed,yeah, I'm depressed, and then we
start talking about losses, andwe do a history of losses, and
then what they realize is thatwhat they are, they are greedy,
the loss that they experienced.
Speaker 01 (09:45):
With your study with um um thanatologists, what is
it that my listeners can learnfrom that particular study that
you've done?
And and because you are athanatologist.
Speaker 02 (10:02):
Okay, thanatology is the study of death and dying
under different because we can'tstudy death under so many
different concepts, but when wetalk about the sociological
perspective, is in how we seedeath in society.
So we start seeing that how ithas changed, you know, from
(10:25):
other times.
For example, Cassandra, beforepeople die at home, yeah.
People who die at home, theywould even uh build the caskets,
the family would build thecaskets, they would place the
caskets, what they would callthe parlor, you know, it would
be like it's like a living room,you know.
(10:47):
That when my father died, youknow, I was living in Nicaragua
back then, and we had the wake,we had it at home, uh-huh.
We had it in the liver room athome, so but we're talking about
medieval times that was sodifferent.
The when people died, thefamily would be surrounding the
dying person.
(11:07):
So, what happens with time andand technology and medicine and
all that, that sometimes, and itis a blessing that so many
things can be done now.
However, there has been adistance with death.
There has been a distance, andthat's why now that we have
(11:27):
hospice, you know, that way thatphilosophy of care, that it's
when you know, you take care ofthe dying patient, the dying
person, and the family, and theidea is to keep them
comfortable, you know, not toextend life, but keep them
comfortable.
And many times you havehospice.
(11:48):
I had it with my mom.
You have uh you have hospice athome, so people die at home.
So we talk about all thesedifferent aspects, you know, of
death.
We talk about the culture, youknow.
For example, the Hispanicculture, you may know about how
Mexicans they celebrate the theday of the dead, el Dia de los
(12:12):
Muertos, the Day of the Dead,and it is a spirit and a very
unique ritual that they have,Mexicans.
We do not have any Nicaragua,so it's very unique to that
particular culture.
Have you ever watched the movieCoco?
Speaker 01 (12:29):
No, I have not.
Speaker 02 (12:31):
Cassandra, I totally recommend it to you and all the
beautiful people who arewatching us.
Coco, and it's an animatedmovie, but it shows you the
culture, it shows you you knowwhat happens the day of the
dead, and it has to do a lotwith how people grieve.
It's it is beautiful, it issuch a beautiful.
(12:52):
How do you spell that?
Okay, it's C-O-C-O, Coco.
Speaker 01 (12:59):
Oh, T S N Tom?
No, C S N Charles.
Okay, C-O-C-O.
Okay.
C-O-C-O, Coco.
Speaker 02 (13:09):
Okay, okay.
It's it's amazing, it'sbeautiful.
So we learn through differentthings, you know, about death
and dying.
We also talk because it'sinteresting.
I learned about this, about mymission, when I took that course
on death and dying, andeventually, after many years, I
(13:30):
happened to teach it at theuniversity.
Okay, I taught death and dying,and the way that I taught that
class was yes, it was aboutdeath.
However, I emphasized life.
I I said it to my my studentsthat the more aware we are that
(13:52):
we are going to die, that ourloved ones are going to die, we
may give even more meaning tolife, you know, and we would
live with more gratitude, morelove, more ability to forgive.
And it was a beautiful coursebecause you know, I taught it
(14:14):
several times, and and then Itaught it online for another
university, but that's what Idid with my students, you know,
for them to be aware, and theywill share that the the topic of
death, it was a taboo in theirfamilies, you know.
Okay, people wouldn't talkabout it.
Speaker 01 (14:33):
Well, let me ask you based on your your education in
that field and even teachingit, what are some of the things
that my listeners could learnfrom your teaching and your
knowledge that you don't thinkthey're really aware of the
importance of talking about it.
Speaker 02 (14:57):
It's not going to happen because that's one of the
greatest taboos that peoplethink that if we're going to be
talking about it, it may happen,you know, about death.
And it is something that peoplehave what we call sometimes
phanatophobia, which is fear ofdeath.
(15:17):
So, something that we talkabout is the importance of to
start having the conversation,start having the conversation
about death, because it issomething that happens to us,
it's part of life, it's the endof life, and it depends so much
(15:39):
on our attitude, how we take it.
Because sometimes if we push itaway, if we put it on the
shelf, it's more present, thefear is more present.
However, if we sorry, if wetalk about it, then we can have
that conversation.
There are different conceptsbased on your religion as well.
(16:00):
Religion has a big impact onhow we see death and dying.
And for example, the concept ofthe afterlife, the concept of
what happens near deathexperience.
You may have heard about NDE.
Speaker 01 (16:15):
Yes.
Speaker 02 (16:15):
So, what happens then?
Because it is based on so manystudies.
So, all these things, manypeople, when they are grieving
and they they learn about NDE,that gives them hope because
they feel that they're going toconnect with their loved ones
again, you know, after they die,they're gonna they're gonna
(16:38):
come and you know and greetthem.
So there's so many concepts.
We also talk about suicide inthat course and the importance
to again have the conversationbecause it is a taboo, people
don't talk about it, even whenthey experience that loss.
(16:58):
That is such a painful loss.
I have clients who have lostloved ones to suicide, and they
tell me, Ligia, people don'teven want to ask me how I feel,
because they don't even want totouch the subject, and people
need to be seen, people need tobe heard, and to have that
(17:18):
conversation.
And if someone, so I rememberthat's something that we said,
you know, um, based on thetextbook and what we we talked
about.
If someone mentions the ideathat I don't want to live
anymore, I want to kill myself,all those things.
Many people say, I don't saythat, you know, don't say those
(17:40):
things, you know.
No, if they are saying that,you want to hold the space, you
want to allow them to talk aboutthat because you don't know if
they already have a plan, youdon't know, right?
Speaker 01 (17:53):
Exactly.
Speaker 02 (17:54):
So it's important, Cassandra, to talk about these
things, yeah.
Speaker 01 (17:59):
And and they don't, as you indicated, because it's
like it's taboo, or like youtalk about depression or
suicide, uh, and everybody isdifferent in regards to the
death of suicide.
There sometimes people we don'tknow what to say.
And I remember I had a relativewhose father passed, and you
(18:24):
know, I went and visited, youknow, like my parents did, I did
what they did.
And I asked the question, wasthere anything I could do?
And she looked at me like I wascrazy.
And I sincerely meant that, butand I talked to my mom, she
says, you just do, you know,because when it happens, people
don't know what to do.
You know, just kind of bethere.
(18:45):
You need to give them theirspace, feel them out, you know,
because if you ask somebody,it's like, okay, and don't say,
um, time will heal.
You don't know, you know, youknow, so that's why people are
at odds of how do I respond tothat?
You know, from yourexperiences, how how have you
(19:07):
responded or any thoughts onresponding to someone who's lost
a loved one?
Now we already talked about youcan lose a job, you can lose a
divorce, a breakup, all of thosethings.
But at this moment, we'retalking about grief.
We're talking about thegrieving in regards to the loss
of a loved one, because that'swhat your education, your
(19:29):
knowledge, yes, what you'vetaught.
And uh, so at share with us howwould you, what are some ways
or some thoughts you have on howyou would respond to someone
who's in a loved one committedsuicide or a loved one who's
lost someone?
How would you respond?
Or is there no certainresponse?
Speaker 02 (19:52):
Thank you for the question, because those things,
you know, when you mentionedtime will heal, and it's what we
call euphemisms, euphemisms.
People say things like tosoften, you know, and to to make
it sound better, and all thosethings, and people sometimes
(20:13):
bring religious concepts, youknow, they are in heaven, now
they are with God, now they areresting, they they were
suffering, all these things, andor even the even the I'm sorry,
many people don't like that.
So, because you know, I uhworking with my clients, I went
(20:33):
through the loss of my mom fiveyears ago, and my sisters two
years ago.
So it's the best thing that wecan do, and that's what I say
because and I mean it with myheart.
It's like I accompany you, myheart is with you, I accompany
you with my love.
I am here, so the presence isimportant.
(20:56):
The presence is important,okay, not trying to fix them
right because we cannot fix thebereaved, we cannot fix the
grief, we can only accompany thebereaved, okay, okay.
Yes, and when something, forexample, as you said before, is
(21:17):
there something I can do?
And there are so many things wecan do, however, the griever
doesn't come and say it to youif they need you, they don't
it's very it's very rare thatthey would do that.
So, what is great that helps alot is if we are aware of the
(21:38):
needs they may have.
For example, you have a friendthat lost her husband and has
two kids, you know.
So you know that she takes themto school.
Let's say that they don't ridethe bus, they you know, she
takes them to school, so youknow that she has to do that,
(21:59):
and after losing the husband,most likely that's the last
thing she wants to do.
So he come and say, you knowwhat, for the next month I'll be
taking your children to school.
So you are offering somethingspecific, you know, something
that she will be so so grateful,or you can say for the next
(22:22):
month I'll be doing yourgroceries, you know.
Speaker 01 (22:25):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 02 (22:26):
So things like those, then that is you know,
specific, and they would totallyappreciate it because you know
what?
Now that I mentioned that, oneof the things that can be the
most painful, incredible, it'sgoing to the supermarket after
losing your loved one.
Yeah, it's amazing.
(22:47):
I have heard that.
I remember when I experiencedit after my mom because I was my
mom's caretaker, becauseCassandra, my mother was a
centenarian, she died when shewas 100 years old.
Oh wow, yes, she was she was anapple in my eye, and so I
remember after she died that Iwent to publics.
(23:08):
You know, here is the verywell-known chain of
supermarkets, and I would loveto buy for her, you know,
pudding or jello, you know,those things.
I remember the first time I sawthat.
Oh, I would bring her in herwheelchair, and uh, people loved
her because she was supersweet, she would talk to
(23:29):
everybody, and they would bringher, they would bring her
donuts, you know.
So the first time I went, andthey were like, In your mommy
and your mom, and just by thequestion, you know, and say I
would say, you know, she died,and sometimes people felt so bad
that they, you know, but goingto the grocery can be very
(23:50):
painful the first time, yeah.
Speaker 01 (23:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Let's talk about your you have11 principles for transformation
of uh into from pain into hope,strength, and renewal.
Let's talk about thoseprinciples.
Speaker 02 (24:09):
Those principles are, I love the principles, and
I'll tell you how they wereborn.
When I when I wrote the myfirst book about grief, yeah,
it's called Transform Your Loss,Your Guide to Strength and
Hope.
When I was writing that book,you know, I talk about what
losses are, as you said, notonly death, what how grief is
(24:33):
manifested, because it is notonly through crying, you know,
it can be expressed physically,you know, headaches, migraines,
you know, even backache,insomnia, you know, so many ways
to be expressed socially,isolating or going out, not
stopping.
Um, emotionally, of course, youknow, different emotions,
anger, sadness, guilt,spiritually, sometimes getting
(24:58):
angry with God, getting angrylife.
Speaker 01 (25:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (25:02):
Or on the other hand, you can find meaning.
So, because again, grief isunique.
And so I was writing the book,it has 60 real stories, but then
I said, I want to givesomething to the reader, I want
to give them tools to help them,and that's how they came to be
(25:22):
the 11 principles.
I started writing them, andthen they were 11, and and
touched my heart because I juststopped then, right?
And it touched my heart becausemy father died on November 11.
Speaker 01 (25:38):
Okay.
Speaker 02 (25:38):
So when that happens, 11, like, oh my god,
they were close to my heart.
So I created them, and it's amethodology, you know.
I it's you know, uh registeredand also a methodology.
I have I have done seminars, Ido seminars, workshops, uh,
online programs with that.
And what is the purpose?
(25:59):
The purpose is to help peopletake them from the beginning
when they are facing a loss,painful, and we know that the
hardest thing is to accept whathappened.
However, what is the country ofaccepting?
Denying, resisting.
(26:22):
How are we going to heal if weare resisting, if we are
denying?
So the first one is accept yourloss, and that by itself is a
process, and then that's thefirst one, and an acceptance is
not that you don't care aboutit, that's okay.
No, it's coming to terms withthe fact, the reality, this has
(26:44):
happened that is horrible, thatis super painful.
Yes, it is, it has so that'sthe first principle.
The second one is because Iacknowledge that there is pain,
the second one is live yourgrief, live your grief.
It is what has happened becausegrief is the natural and unique
(27:05):
response to loss.
So that however, with time, Irealize that many people either
they don't give themselvespermission to grieve, to grief,
and they want to jump the secondprinciple, or society or family
would say, no, no, no, no.
Yeah, it's enough time to youknow stop crying, stop talking
(27:29):
about them.
That's about time you you knowlet go of your black clothes,
whatever.
You and if they are young, it'sabout time you start dating
again.
So, no, no, it's gonna I hearso many things, Cassandra.
And if they lost a baby, oh,but you're young, you can have
another baby, but I lost thisone, so so many things, and but
(27:52):
sometimes it is really hard tolive the grief.
That's why I called my latestbook, Allow Me to Live My Grief,
right?
No time limit on it, exactly,and then and then heal and heal
from the inside out becausethat's what it is.
That's another misconceptionthat people think that if you
(28:13):
are grieving, it's gonna beworse.
No, I was so mindful when my Ilost my mom, and as I said, she
was the apple of my eye, but Iwas so mindful grieving the loss
of my mom that I will never behow I am, and and like this, I
am you know so years ago, right?
Because I was so present to mygrief.
(28:36):
So that's a second principle.
Then the third is expand youryour develop your spiritual
dimension, and when I sayspiritual, I am not talking
about being religious.
If you are religious,beautiful.
However, I talk about beingspiritual, the value of being
grateful, of being able toforgive, of loving.
(28:59):
Those are this the threespiritual tools I believe
they're so powerful in ourlives.
So, what was the third?
Expand your what?
No, develop your spiritualdimension.
Speaker 01 (29:10):
Oh, okay, dimension.
Okay.
Speaker 02 (29:13):
All these are if you go to my website,
mythiahooven.com, there it saysabout you know the 11
principles, and there they allstated there.
Speaker 01 (29:22):
Uh-huh.
Okay.
Speaker 02 (29:24):
Yes.
And then the fourth one isexpress your feelings, express
how you feel, you know, get ridof the mask, stop pretending,
express how you feel.
Number fifth, number five isshare with others.
Share with others.
We are not an island, it's soimportant.
(29:44):
This the support, socialsupport, so important.
Speaker 01 (29:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (29:48):
Number six is take care of yourself because it
happens, Cassandra.
It may have happened to you, Idon't know, but sometimes we
just don't feel like.
Taking care of ourselves afterwhat we can, and it's so
important.
So that would be number six.
Number seven, doing ritualsbecause rituals help us.
(30:12):
You know, rituals are symbolic,so they can help us.
Number eight is live the now,just like being mindful, you
know, being mindful.
Live the now.
Don't dwell in the past.
Don't worry about the future.
I don't say don't plan thefuture.
That's different.
(30:33):
But worrying is different.
So don't worry about thefuture, live the now.
Because the now is the onlything we have.
Speaker 01 (30:41):
Right.
Speaker 02 (30:42):
Yes.
So that would be number eight.
Number nine, which I love itbecause I I work a lot with
that.
Modify your thoughts.
Because we are able, we areable to change our thoughts.
We may not be able, of course,to change events.
However, something that we canalways change 100% of the time
(31:06):
are our thoughts.
And I've been I've been talkingabout this, Cassandra, for over
20 years.
And I am always say that, Ibelieve in that, and all that.
When I confirmed it, it was themost painful time in my life,
you know, after my mother died,it had been the greatest loss
(31:27):
was my father, then my mom.
But I was able to change mythoughts, and I was taken by
that.
I was like, oh my god, thisreally works.
Because thoughts, emotions,actions based on how we think,
we feel, and based on how wefeel, we act.
(31:50):
And I applied that so muchafter validating how I felt, I
always validated how I felt.
Then I would choose the emotionI wanted to feel, and generally
it was peace.
I know, so I wanted to feelpeace because yes, we can feel
grief, we can feel sad, yes,missing them, and at the same
(32:12):
time, we can be in peacetotally.
So that helped me a lot.
My thoughts then number 10th isrebuild the world, rebuild your
world.
So you build again your worldafter you have included loss in
that world because it is part ofyour story.
(32:34):
We cannot erase it, ithappened, so we rebuild it
again.
You know, it's like when theysay picking up the pieces, yeah,
uh-huh.
So we rebuild it, and thennumber 11th is visualize the
life you want.
Okay, because it's it's achoice, you know, it's a choice
(33:00):
how we want to live.
And and one of the things I askpeople, you know, when we do
the seminars, okay.
I ask, please raise your handif you want to be happy.
Be happy.
So that is the first, the firstthing that has to be present if
you want to live a better life.
Like the will, the desire, Iwant to be happy.
(33:23):
And when we do that, we canbring then our purpose, the
meaning, the purpose, and thenwe can visualize that life.
Speaker 01 (33:33):
You know, there were two principles I I want to
expound on.
One was rituals.
Can you describe like a ritual?
Like, what do you mean byhaving a ritual?
Give me an example of a ritual.
Speaker 02 (33:47):
Okay, thank you.
Because rituals are doingsomething that has special
meaning to you.
I'll give you an example,something so simple.
We have dinner.
Well, supposedly, you know, wehave dinner every every day,
every night.
We have dinner now.
There is a dinner or lunch,depending how you celebrate,
(34:09):
that happens every year that hasa special meaning.
Which one is that?
We have a dinner that happensonce a year that is very
symbolic, and we celebrate.
Speaker 01 (34:24):
It could be Easter, Christmas, or Thanksgiving.
Right.
Uh-huh.
Speaker 02 (34:29):
So that is a ritual.
Speaker 01 (34:31):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 02 (34:32):
Something that an action that has special meaning.
For example, you can come home,and if you are like me, that I
love candles, you may come homeand you know, just you know, you
light a candle, it has a greatsmell, aroma, gives you an
atmosphere.
Fantastic.
Okay, right.
(34:53):
But if you lost your loved oneand you get home and you go and
you light a candle in front ofhis picture, and you say prayer,
or you say some words, that isa reach.
Speaker 01 (35:08):
Okay, now let me talk about um number 10.
Did you say build your world?
Well, build it again, rebuild,rebuild it.
Okay, what does that mean?
Reveal your world, like how canone do that?
Speaker 02 (35:23):
Okay, rebuild meaning building, you know, you
rebuild when you are buildingsomething because when we lose a
loved one, and sometimes whenwe lose other things, our world
feels that it shattered, thatit's destroyed, that it's
shattered.
So when you rebuild it, you areputting the pieces again, you
(35:49):
put the foundation again.
When I do the seminars and theactivity that we do, because I
love to do activities with eachprincipal, the activities I do
with them is I use Lego blocks.
Lego blocks, so it's like ametaphor, you know.
When they are you know creatingsomething with Lego blocks,
(36:12):
they are building the same waythey are building with Lego
blocks, they can rebuild theirlife after a loss.
So because with when a losshappens, and you know this,
Cassandra, it's the life we hadbefore the loss, yeah, the life
we have now, and the life we'llhave after a loss.
(36:36):
Okay, so that's the life we arerebuilding with the loss inside
of us.
Speaker 01 (36:43):
Okay, let's use Thanksgiving for a minute.
I remember uh when I my momtransitioned, and Thanksgiving
was big, and uh that's where Iused to always go.
I was always out of town.
I was I never moved back towhere I grew up, but I would
always go back to where myparents were.
(37:04):
And Thanksgiving was tough forme because my mom was the
matriarch of the family, so shewas the one to get everybody
together.
So, how could I reveal, rebuildmy world around that particular
holiday, for example?
Speaker 02 (37:20):
Thank you, beauty.
You make such amazingquestions.
Well, you can create newtraditions, okay?
You can create new traditions,you can honor if there's a
specific dish that your momliked, did he did she cook?
Okay, well, you can you cancook the special dish that she
(37:44):
liked, okay, honoring her.
Okay, you can find a recipe andyou can honor your mom just
cooking that dish, having thatrecipe that she liked, and then
you make it present, okay.
Because your mom, notphysically, you know, she's not
physically, but she'll always bethere.
(38:05):
So that is something.
Do you know what else you cando?
You're going to love this,you're going to love this
Cassandra.
And you can do this thisThanksgiving.
When you have, let's say thatyou have it at home.
So you invite people, and thenat the at the entrance of your
(38:25):
house, I'm trying to see if Ihave something here.
Okay, I'm gonna show yousomething.
Okay, I'm going to move this.
No, well, I don't have to showit.
I'm going to say it's a notbecause I don't want to move
this, it's a chest.
You know, you can place a chestat the entrance of your house.
You know, there on a on atable, you put a chest and then
(38:47):
or a box, but beautiful, make itbeautiful.
May even you can even decorateit a box, you know.
You can go to Hobby Lobby andyou can decorate it beautifully,
right?
And then place it there on atable and place some um like
these blank cards, yeah.
These blank cards with with apen next to them, and then you
(39:09):
say, Okay, write on that cardsomething that you feel grateful
for having my mom in your life,something grateful about my
mom, and then everybody puts itinside of the chest, yeah.
And then you have dinner, youhave your Thanksgiving, you talk
(39:33):
about you know the recipe, thedish, my mom, and you beautiful.
And then after you guys havedinner, you know, with your
family, then you go to theliving room and you bring the
box, so you place it in youknow, there in the center, and
then you start uh reading thedifferent things.
That it's such a beautifulritual.
(39:55):
I have said this for many yearswhen because I do a seminar
called Navigating the Holidayswhen we're grieving.
Yeah, that is one of the of therituals I share with families
that they can do because we dothis navigating the holidays
before Thanksgiving.
Because you we knowThanksgiving, you know, the
(40:17):
holidays start withThanksgiving.
Yeah, and we we did it thisyear, November 2nd, at a funeral
home.
It was so beautiful, and I andI came and I brought you know
examples with there, so peoplelike that.
Speaker 01 (40:32):
Yeah, that's okay.
Speaker 02 (40:35):
I have done it also personally, yeah, and it's
beautiful.
We you we love it because thenyou read you know all the
things, how your mom toucheddifferent lives.
Speaker 01 (40:46):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I that's beautiful.
Uh, because when we havefunerals, um, homegoings, you
know, people call it differentthings, and just to hear the
remarks makes you smile, youknow what they did, and you
know, what the commonality aboutyour loved one, and that does
bring a smile and laughter toyou.
(41:07):
So I think that's an excellentidea around the holidays.
And as you said, um visualizeyour life.
The last thing is how how howdo you want to feel?
So all these all theseprinciples I thought were great,
but I no buts.
The only thing I would just addis it's going to take time.
(41:30):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it'll it'll it'll taketime, you know, and if you
really want to, I don't know ifyou ever get over the grieving,
you're the grieve coach.
Um I know I you know my mom'sbeen gone about two to three
years now, and somethinghappened the other day, and I
just started crying.
(41:51):
And I was like, oh my gosh.
So it's like an ongoing thing,and it always will be for even
my dad.
So I I I um so that as youindicate, there's no time, like
you said, live your grief.
There's no timeline, notimeline.
Speaker 02 (42:08):
There's no timeline, and thank you for sharing that
because I mentioned that in mylatest book, and allow me to
live my grief.
That um Dr.
Rosenbad he talks aboutrecurrent grief.
Grief is recurrent, yeah, andit doesn't have okay.
Today I stopped grieving, it'snot like that.
(42:29):
We we learn to live with ourgrief, yeah.
We learn to live with it, butwe don't have sometimes a
tsunami that appears out ofnowhere, exactly that was a
trigger, and then we felt that,and then that's a huge tsunami.
Some other times we may have asmall wave, yeah, and sometimes
(42:52):
it's just there, but it's acompanion.
The moment that we let go ofthe fear of grief, that we
understand it happens, and welearn how to live with that, we
are able to move from a place ofsuffering to a place of
honoring with love, yeah, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 01 (43:15):
And I also know that individuals that have lost a
loved one, they also can findtheir purpose, or they'll also
start realizing life is short.
You know, I better give, Ibetter get going tomorrow.
It could be my day, you know.
Um, so I I like the the the umwhat did I call it?
I'm like, what what is thatword?
(43:36):
What you do, the study of yourum phenotologists, that study
about the living and the dead,and how no, it's it's a study of
death and dying.
Speaker 02 (43:51):
Dying, death and dying, dying, yes.
Speaker 01 (43:54):
Okay, okay.
Um, so that means thetransition part is the dying.
Yes, right.
Speaker 02 (44:00):
When like you said, you you you have a passion for
the elderly, yes, and and it'slike I used to be before taking
care of my mom when she gotolder, I was a Vitas volunteer.
Vitas is a hospice, and it'swhen when you accompany people
when they're dying, that can beso sacred, and it's a process,
(44:23):
you know, and we talk about whatit is a process and what
involves.
So there's so many things, theso many things, but what I
suggest so much to youraudience, to your beautiful
audience who's listening tothis, to open their hearts, to
open their hearts to thisreality that will happen to all
(44:44):
of us, yeah, to loved ones, andto give more love, to fight
less, to to you know, to not tofocus on problems and
challenges, on you know, no, toopen our hearts more to love.
Speaker 01 (44:59):
Yeah, because at the end of the day, exactly, right?
Exactly.
And I in my book I wrote, uh, Ididn't write it, but there was
a I I permission to write itcalled The Dash.
And I don't know whether you'veheard of that, but it's it's
actually a phenomenal poem, andit talks more about what did you
(45:19):
do during your dash, not thebeginning, not the end.
How do you want to beremembered?
What's your legacy?
You know, so I I thought thatwas great to end on about the
dying and the death, how youstudied that, and uh, and just
the work that you're doingaround this, I think is
(45:40):
beautiful.
And many people, many peoplewill be blessed by what you've
done and the outcomes thatyou've been providing for people
because death is inevitable,you know.
Like you said, we're all gonnadie.
Yeah, yeah.
So, Lisa, tell us again how wecan contact you.
(46:02):
How can you be contacted?
Speaker 02 (46:04):
Your website, yes.
I have the website that is myname, Ligiahuben.com.
And I I am also very present onsocial media and Instagram,
Facebook.
Oh, I want to say somethingbecause I have a podcast, it's
only audio, it is not video, andit's and it's bilingual, you
(46:28):
know, in Spanish and Spanish andEnglish, and it's called
Transforming Grief.
Speaker 01 (46:35):
Okay, transforming grief.
Speaker 02 (46:37):
It is in Spotify and you know in all audio
platforms, and it consists ofshort messages between six to
fifteen minutes, okay, short ondifferent topics regarding
grief, different topics, and Ihave the same topic in English
(46:57):
and Spanish, and they aretitled.
So if you go to the you know tothe podcast, you may choose
what you want to hear about, youknow.
Yes, so because what I wantedto do, and this was after my mom
died, what I wanted to do isfor the griever to feel
accompanied, you know, to feelaccompanied and understood, you
(47:19):
know, validated.
So that's the purpose with thepodcast.
So I invite you, you know, tolisten to it and to your
audience to listen to that aswell.
Speaker 01 (47:28):
I am so glad that you said that, uh, because I'm
gonna put that in the show notesthat you're bilingual, yeah, so
that exactly, yeah, you canhear it in Spanish and in
English.
One more question before weclose.
I live near a cemetery, andevery now and then I'll hear
people singing.
And what I did hear thatHispanic, and I don't know how
(47:52):
true this is, they will go totheir loved ones' grave and have
a celebration and sing.
Speaker 02 (47:58):
Is that is that well, maybe they are Mexican,
they may be Mexican.
Speaker 01 (48:02):
They could be Mexican, okay.
Speaker 02 (48:04):
All right, yes, how interesting you asked that.
So you may want to well, firstcheck that movie I mentioned,
Coco, because it's so cool, it'sadorable, adorable.
And then, you know, uh, tolearn a little bit more about
the day, the day of the dead.
Okay, it's amazing, it's anincredible ritual they have, and
it's it's so pot, it's sospiritual, so potent.
(48:26):
They oh my god, they if theyeven make bread of the dead.
So bread in the shape of askeleton.
No, it's amazing what they do.
It's amazing what they do.
So you you're going to enjoylearning about that.
Okay, and cocoa, right?
Cocoa, and cocoa exactly.
Speaker 01 (48:43):
Okay, well, Lydia, thank you so much.
Lisha, thank you so much foryour time, your your words of
wisdom, uh enabling us to seewhat the misconception of grief
is.
And I'm certain that many of mylisteners have learned a lot in
regards to death because theyknow too that one day they'll
(49:05):
they will be transitioning aswell, in addition to their loved
ones.
So, like I always tell my mylisteners to please, if you
found this of value, which youhave, I know.
Please share it with someoneand bless them as well.
And hit subscribe and clicklike.
I was so much appreciated.
And sure, and Lisha would dothe same.
(49:27):
Thanks again, Alicia.
Bye for now.
Speaker 02 (49:30):
Thank you so much.
My heart to you and all theblessings.
Thank you.
Speaker 01 (49:35):
Thank you.
God bless.
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