December 18, 2025 • 42 mins
We challenge the idea that achievement equals fulfillment and explore how loss, intuition, and courage can turn pressure into purpose. Sarah shares how she blends CEO credibility with poetry and spirituality to live true, love fully, and dream beyond big.
• early anxiety, identity, and the cost of being capable
• returning to Vermont and reworking family business dynamics
• a profound synchronicity through grief and what it opened
• integrating leadership with vulnerability and poetry
• getting unstuck through five minutes of solitude and body awareness
• shifting from outside-in validation to inside-out alignment
• pressure as layers of expectation and how to unlayer
• three anchors: live true, love fully, dream the impossible
• resources and where to connect with Sarah
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cassandra (00:25):
Good day out there to all my listeners, and I'd like
to welcome you to Is Your Wayand Your Way.
And for those new listeners outthere, my name, and I'm your
host, is Cassandra Crawley Mayo.
And I have a question for you.
What happens when the worldtells you you've made it?
And what I mean by that, let'ssay, you know, you're almost
(00:47):
about to retire or you're doingreally well, your kids are grown
up and you're really saturatedin your community and just a
lot.
But yet inside you feel alittle lost, although you've
accomplished a lot, are stillaccomplishing.
But my guest today, her name isSarah Byers, and she was a CEO
(01:12):
for over 20 years.
She was juggling success, um,family, and community.
But it wasn't until thisheartbreaking loss of a loved
one.
And I know a lot of you canrelate, it's just something that
that just resonates with youthat make you like sit down and
(01:32):
pause for a minute.
And and by doing that, shediscovers success doesn't always
mean wholeness.
So today we're going to talkabout the courage to embrace all
parts of yourself, the polishedand the vulnerable, the
strategic and the spiritual, andwhy true freedom comes from
(01:54):
when we stop being in our ownway.
This conversation willchallenge how you see
leadership, success, and evenyourself.
And I'd like to introduce youto my guest.
And her name again is SarahByers.
Hello, Sarah.
Sara (02:10):
Hello, Cassandra.
Hello, everyone.
I'm so happy to be here.
Thank you for that beautifulintroduction.
Wow.
Cassandra (02:16):
You are so welcome.
And you know, for my listeners,they know that we talk about
topics related to personalimprovement, self-improvement,
uh, self-development, and all ofthat.
But today, you know, our topicis going to be its titled
Becoming a High Achieving,Becoming All of You.
(02:43):
Let me say that.
From high achieving to fullyalive.
Okay.
I'm telling you, from highachieving to fully alive.
So um, Sarah, one of the thingsI'd like to start with is I
want to read a little bit ofyour bio so that my end of my
audience will understand whatqualifies you to for us to talk
(03:07):
about what we get ready to talkabout.
Sara (03:08):
Okay.
Cassandra (03:09):
So Sarah is on a mission, guys, to help people
lighten the burdens they carryand rediscover the joy of living
with authenticity andconnection.
She's a CEO, Oversight to aFamily Business, Leonardo's
Pizza.
She's an inspirational speakerand channel poet.
(03:30):
She has woven her leadershipexperience and spiritual
insights into a life of impactand service.
She is the author of two poetrycollections, Heart and Moon and
Wise Stars, and a co-host, theCollecting Insight podcast,
where she explores the beautyand complexity of the human
(03:53):
experience.
Whether leading a business,writing from the heart, or
speaking on stage, she inspiresothers to unlock their innate
power to create more love, hope,and humanity in the world.
So, Sarah, tell my listenerswho is Sarah Byers?
(04:14):
Like, for example, like tell usyour backstory before you
started working for your dadfull time.
What's going on with Sarah?
Sara (04:23):
I love that question.
And thank you for sort ofcreating that container for it
because who I sort of was almostat the beginning is who I'm
becoming again.
And that's been just a wildjourney.
Um, so it's interesting as achild, uh very young child, I
was I always had a microphone inmy hand.
(04:45):
If I could have a microphone,then I would be talking
essentially gibberish to it.
Um and I uh when I was 13, I Ithought no one asked me to, but
I thought I had to keep thissecret in my family.
And that sounds significant,but I thought I had to keep it
or else it was gonna hurt myfamily.
(05:07):
And um that is whereunbeknownst to me, I started to
develop pretty severe anxiety,actually.
Um and that anxiety, eventhough I was the responsible one
in my family, I had a sisterwho has suffered with substance
(05:28):
use disorder for 35 years.
Um but I I so I had to, eventhough I felt that crippling
anxiety, I still had to be theresponsible one, the capable
one, the one who is going to tryto hold it all together.
And uh so through my life, thatanxiety up until my joining my
(05:52):
family's business sort of chasedme.
It was like it was right behindme, and I was trying to outrun
it as fast as I possibly could.
Um, so that I actually uh wentto college and um it became so
significant I couldn't getmyself to go to class.
Cassandra (06:10):
Wow.
Sara (06:11):
And so I dropped out of college and I was working uh for
the Gap in Banana Republic atthe time, so retail clothing
store.
Yeah.
And I started to move forwardwith them.
Um I became promoted, I startedmoving around the country into
a variety of management andleadership roles, and uh
(06:35):
ultimately found myself fromCincinnati, Ohio to South
Florida, Miami, Fort Lauderdale,and then finally to Charlotte,
North Carolina.
Um and I, you know, was withinthat company I learned a
tremendous amount.
It was 12 years of amazingeducation.
(06:55):
And um, but I was still in aspace where I'm not, I'm I was
trying to be what everyonewanted me to be on the outside.
I was sort of externalizing.
So I was epitomizing the uhquintessential gap leader.
(07:15):
Um and I was about to receive apromotion to move to Houston,
Texas.
And my boyfriend at the timeand I, I visited home Vermont
every summer.
Cassandra (07:29):
Okay.
Sara (07:29):
And that summer I got to the airport to come back, move
go back to Charlotte.
And I just had thisoverwhelming feeling, I cannot
explain it, but that I needed tomove back home to Vermont.
Now it made no sense.
Um, I the gap I'd moved to acertain level that Vermont
(07:50):
didn't have those opportunities.
Um and so I spent about threemonths thinking about this
because I could still feel it.
It's sort of like when yourhead and your heart are in
competition, because it made nosense.
Cassandra (08:03):
Yeah, yeah.
Sara (08:05):
And I talked to my dad who said, you know, you can come
back here, but if you come backhere, you are not like you're
not running anything, you're notmanaging, you're not, you can
work here.
Okay, but I don't care thatyou've overseen hundreds of
people or that like if you comeback here, this is what you're
doing.
And so I couldn't get away fromthe feeling.
(08:27):
So I took a 70% pay cut andmoved back home to Vermont.
And thankfully, my boyfriend,who's now my husband, uh came
with me.
Um but that was one of my firstbig leaps where it didn't make
logical sense, but it was what Ifelt.
(08:48):
I felt something bigger than mepulling me.
It was like magnetic.
Cassandra (08:53):
Wow.
Sara (08:54):
Yeah, so that was sort of the the the lead up to coming
back home.
Cassandra (09:00):
Um yeah, yeah, that's interesting because I remember
growing up, um there was a partof me that kind of wanted to
start all over wherever I moved.
I I moved a lot of places, andwhat I realized that I was
running from myself.
Yeah, and myself went with meeverywhere.
(09:21):
It's kind of like that anxiety,okay, I'm gonna go here and I'm
gonna be okay.
But yet that, you know, it'skind of like so how long are you
gonna keep running?
Sara (09:30):
Oh my gosh, so powerful.
Because yeah, I mean, I wouldsay that that is probably pretty
accurate for myself as well.
Um, and while my move back toVermont took me to a different
level of self-understanding, Istill had so much to learn.
That was in 2001, and I was 29at the time.
Cassandra (09:55):
Wow.
Now, when you were younger, youtalked about you holding a
microphone a lot.
Like, I know, like what did youhave any goals or aspirations
to it when you were growing up?
What were they?
Sara (10:09):
That's a great question.
Um, interestingly, so when Iwas 13, I um had the chance to
be a page in the Vermontlegislature, which meant that I
got to miss uh Tuesday throughFriday for during the
legislative session for a fewmonths.
I didn't have to go to schoolin eighth grade, and I got to
(10:32):
instead be a part of the VermontSenate and House and you know,
that whole entire system, whichwas pretty amazing.
And at that time, I was prettycertain I wanted to be a lawyer,
and that was um my, you know, Ijust wanted to find a way to do
good work in the world.
(10:53):
And my mother had always toldme that I could be argumentative
at the time when I was younger,um, or just debate more more a
debater.
Um and so that was myaspiration at the time was I
wanted to ultimately become aSupreme Court justice.
Oh, right.
Um, and I I identified as beinglike being smart was was my
(11:22):
only identity at that time whenI was younger.
I always my sister was thebeautiful one, I was the smart
one.
Um, and so that's why leavingschool disrupted everything for
me because I no longerconsidered myself smart, and so
I didn't know who I was.
Yeah.
Cassandra (11:41):
Right.
Yeah, that's like the statusquo.
Like, okay, that's what we'resupposed to do, go to school and
then you know, get a job, getmarried, have a white picket
fence, have some kids.
Yeah, right.
And that that wasn't okay.
So when you started working foryour dad, what was that like?
(12:03):
Because he said, What do yousay?
Now you're gonna work when youcome here, you know, even though
I own the company, don't thinkthat, you know, that you you're
privileged and you're gonna dothis and that.
What was that like?
Sara (12:16):
That was hard.
Um, and the reason it was hardwas not because I wanted to
assert necessarily the privilegeof being the owner's child, but
rather that I wanted to berecognized for the 12 years of
work I had done with this uhmassive company.
Yeah.
And so that is what was really,really hard.
(12:41):
And the structures were reallydifferent.
I was joining a family pizzabusiness.
My dad had two restaurants atthe time, and it was so
different.
I, you know, there weren'trules and structures and an
operational manual and systems,et cetera, that I was executing.
It was just, it felt, it feltwild and unruly in a way that
(13:02):
was a bit uncomfortable for me.
And my dad and I, my dad hadalways been um my greatest
cheerleader and supporter.
Um and when uh my parents gotdivorced, my father actually uh
had custody of us.
And um, so he was he meant somuch to me throughout my life.
(13:24):
And when we started to worktogether, that dynamic changed
because all of a sudden I amworking for him.
Cassandra (13:33):
Yeah.
Sara (13:33):
Um, and I'm strong-willed, and he is the founder of this
business, and so there werethere were complexities there to
try to figure out who we weregoing to be in this new dynamic
of father and daughter andemployee and owner, yeah.
So that was that was that tookthat took quite a bit of time.
Cassandra (13:57):
Okay, all right.
So although he was the owner,uh, were you believing you were
an owner too?
No, because not at all.
Sara (14:08):
Not at that time.
I am today, but then um, thenno, I did not, I did not feel
that way.
However, because of all of thethings I'd experienced, I knew I
I knew I had something tooffer.
Um, and that offering um couldbe challenging perhaps to, you
(14:32):
know, father-daughter dynamic ismy dad was always my mentor, my
leader, my guide.
And now I had this informationthat he might not have because
I'd worked for a companycorporation for 12 years.
Yeah.
Cassandra (14:50):
Right.
Okay.
So why?
So something shifted.
Okay.
Um, because you said, I'mcurious to why do you call
yourself a CEO turn soulexplorer?
Sara (15:05):
Yes.
Because um once my dad and myrelationship got figured out, um
I began to achieve.
Um, I got involved in ourcommunity.
I was chairing multiple boardsat a time.
I was being asked to speak hereand there, and I received an
(15:28):
honorary degree from a college.
I I just I started to to umachieve in ways that I never
expected in my life, um,particularly without a college
degree.
Um, and so I I just keptachieving and racking up uh, you
know, accomplishments andawards, et cetera.
(15:49):
And um at this time I was CEOof our business.
I co-owned it with my fatherand my husband.
Cassandra (15:57):
Okay.
Sara (15:58):
Um, but I was going really, really, really fast.
Um, I also had a daughter umthat you know I was trying to be
a mom to.
And in 2019, a sister of Mercy,who in Vermont was a community
leader, she and I would see eachother twice a year and exchange
(16:19):
pleasantries.
But she called me one day andshe said, You've been coming up
in my prayers for the lastcouple of months.
And I just thought you neededsome extra blessings.
So I've been sending those toyou.
But you are now coming upmorning, noon, and night.
And I feel the need to ask you,is there something in your life
(16:43):
you are not paying attentionto?
And that's I'm like, I have noidea.
I'm like, I'm busy, but I feelgood, you know.
I because I was missing everysign.
People were like, I don't knowhow you do all the things you
do, I don't know how you're on10 boards, I don't know how
you're doing this, I don't knowhow.
And I was just like, I just am,it's all good.
(17:03):
Like, I didn't get it.
Yeah.
Um, and then in 2020, mystepfather, who was uh a Vermont
senator and a lawyer himself,um had dealt with Alzheimer's
for the past 12 years.
And when he developedAlzheimer's, his hardened parts
(17:25):
began to slip away.
And I began to connect with himin a space that I didn't
understand until fairlyrecently, but it was in spirit.
I could almost feel his souland his spirit, and we became
very, very close.
And in 2020, he was moved tohospice because he was in his
final days.
(17:46):
And I was driving back andforth between my house, my
daughter and husband, andhospice.
And uh, I would listen in that20-minute drive to the music
from the Titanic movie.
Now that sounds really ominous,yeah, but I just wanted to feel
this moment because I had feltso much spirit from my
(18:08):
stepfather.
So um he passed uh one Saturdayat 6:56, and I drove home
listening to my same music.
Yeah, then I pulled onto mystreet, and I'm like, okay, it's
time for this music to come toan end.
And so I pulled up a song bythe Lumineers, and it was their
(18:30):
song Ophelia, and that's thesong that showed on my radio
screen.
Cassandra (18:35):
Uh-huh.
Sara (18:36):
But that was not the song that started playing through the
speakers, it was FrankSinatra's My Way.
Oh, wow.
And it said, and now the end isnear, so I face the final
curtain.
Right.
And I'm looking from my radio,but it doesn't say that,
listening to these words.
Uh-huh.
(18:56):
And I am like, somehow this ismy stepfather.
Cassandra (19:01):
Wow.
Sara (19:03):
And I sat there in front of my garage with the music
blaring in my ears, tearsstreaming down my face because
the same spirit I felt when hewas here, yeah, I was feeling
through this.
Cassandra (19:20):
Wow.
Sara (19:21):
And uh, you know, my mom, who is a scientist, uh read a
ton of books.
Um, she's a pretty spiritualperson, but read a ton of books
on the afterlife, death, etc.
Cassandra (19:38):
Yeah.
Sara (19:38):
And found one person that she really connected with who,
whether you believe it or not,indicated that they could
connect with the other side.
Cassandra (19:48):
Oh.
Sara (19:49):
And this person had a seven-month-long waiting list.
But my mom on Christmas Evethat year got on the phone with
this person in Arizona.
And the first thing she saidwas, There's a gentleman here
singing.
Does Frank Sinatra's My Waymean anything to you?
Cassandra (20:08):
Wow.
Sara (20:09):
And it blew my world wide open.
So when I say Soul Explorernow, it is because I believed a
certain set of things, and now II am open to things that might
be invisible, that might seemimpossible.
(20:31):
And I've explored myself and myconnection to both a creator, a
source, God, whatever your wordthat you use, myself and
everyone else.
So now I'm I I just I have I'velearned so much.
I I began writing poetry in themiddle of the night.
Cassandra (20:54):
Yes.
Sara (20:54):
Um often without recollection in the morning.
And I've written 3,000 poemsthat have guided this soul
exploration.
Cassandra (21:03):
Wow.
Sara (21:04):
Yeah.
Cassandra (21:04):
That's great.
Yeah, it's been amazing.
(21:30):
So at this time in your life,what would you so what is your
passion now?
Like you said, you're still um,you still own the business,
you're still working, yourdaughters are maybe older now.
Yep, 20.
Yeah.
Um so what's your passion nowbased on all of that?
Sara (21:53):
You know, my passion now is be is to embody all of
myself.
And I say that because it waspretty scary to have this
soulful words coming in themiddle of the night.
Cassandra (22:09):
Right.
Sara (22:10):
My feeling like I'm hearing music for my stuff, like
that with the CEO, you know,professional board, a corporate
board.
You know, um, I I'm like Ibasically kind of put this part
in hiding because I'm like, thatdoes not fit into this other
(22:30):
persona of Sarah Byers, who'ssomewhat public and it doesn't
it doesn't fit, yeah.
Um, until it became so strong,it became there, I I have no
other choice now but to be allof myself.
And so, in terms of purposenow, my purpose feels like it is
(22:54):
to be all of that, and it stillincludes, you know, in January,
I just finished chairing theVermont Business Roundtable,
which is a group of 125 CEOs.
Um, so how it's now how do Ibring that part in?
So for me, it was by, you know,the board chair speaks at the
(23:17):
start of our meetings, and it'sI'm gonna start this meeting one
day with one of my poems.
And it was really amazingbecause after I did that, I'm
the third female chair inhistory.
So that in itself is, you know,this is taking a bit of a risk.
But um, the whim many womencame up to me and said that was
(23:39):
so courageous.
And then I had men texting meafter saying, I write too.
Oh wow.
Um, but it really kind of didsomething.
So, so for me now, I I chair acollege board.
I'm like, this is just who Iam, all of it.
Yeah, and so for me, it isbeing in the spaces that I'm
(24:02):
fortunate to inhabit, meetingthe people like you that I am
blessed to be introduced to, andbeing the wholeest version.
Because when you initially sortof talked about going from high
achieving to fully alive, I nowknow what that feels like.
Yeah, it feels like being me,and that me is not a finite
(24:26):
thing, it's not like one anddone.
Oh, I found her check.
Like it is an infinitediscovery to me.
And being open to thatunlocking and de layering of who
I thought that I was, so that Icould be the conduit for
(24:47):
something greater on this earth.
Right.
Cassandra (24:49):
Exactly.
That's interesting because whenyou weren't that when you
didn't finish college, you'relike, Well, I guess I'm not
smart anymore.
You know, you you uh wasdisappointed in yourself.
But when you look back on,you're like, I I may not have
been smart for that, or that wasnot what I was called to do,
but right now I'm smart.
(25:10):
I'm okay and I feel great.
Um, and and in other words, yougot out of your way, you were
in your way because we thinkbecause we didn't go to college,
you know, my parents probablydisappointed.
I disappointed myself, youknow, and you were just in in
your way, and that's kind ofwhat this is about.
(25:30):
It's like, is your way in yourway?
And you're like, okay, becausewhen you get out of your way,
you feel you just become in agood place.
Yes, I mean, it's just amazingthe meaning that you start
having in your life, and youhad, you know, we I talk about
um uh barriers, you know, thoseself-imposed barriers, you know,
(25:53):
even the fact that your mom anddad separated.
I mean, you could have been inyour way with that, but yet look
what you did with thestepfather, look at the impact
that he had in your life, youknow.
So I think that is amazing.
And you talk about you want tohelp people connect to their
(26:14):
truest self.
How do you do that?
Because on this podcast, it'slike my lot of my listeners are
stuck.
They want they know thatthere's something else they
should be doing, but they justcan't figure it out, they don't
know what it is, or they know,but they just can't move, you
know.
It's it's I know because I'vebeen there.
(26:36):
So, how do you how do you helppeople connect to who their
truest self?
Sara (26:44):
What do you do?
Such a beautiful thank you forsaying that.
Um, because yes, so I shouldalso say I took a step away from
the day-to-day of our businessum in 2021.
And uh I was lost at first umbecause I didn't know who I was
(27:05):
without all of that.
Um and and for me, because Istill have moments, what I'm
gonna say is that I think thatthat feeling that you just
described is something that justkeeps coming and going.
So it's like a wave.
It's just you're on the top ofit, you're on the bottom, you're
(27:26):
on the top, you're on thebottom.
So it's not, we often look forthis one space where finally we
will forever feel good in ourpurpose, etc.
Yeah.
And it just doesn't happen.
However, to me, when you're inthose moments of feeling stuck,
so a couple of things.
(27:47):
One, I just started to get toknow me, and that meant even in
five-minute increments, youknow, people would tell me that
I needed to meditate or I neededto be in prayer, or I needed
like for for me, what that meansis sitting, doing nothing and
noticing myself, noticing mybody, my feelings, my thoughts
(28:11):
without attaching anything toit.
Because I started to learn thatwhen things weren't good on the
outside, when when I I would dosomething with my body, like I
will twitch my jaw, I will likeI'm now noticing how my body
responds to different things sothat I can soften into it.
(28:32):
So I'd say first is is justfinding that solitude, even if
it is five minutes, um, becausethat solitude allows you to get
to know yourself because we'rerunning so fast.
I don't, I think we'relistening to our mind, but we
miss the heart.
So um, and then the secondthing is that to me, I see life.
(28:58):
I just mentioned a wave.
I I do see it as water, so Isee everything is sort of
flowing through, and that whenwe get in that stuck place, it's
almost because we're inresistance to something.
Like we're we we we are notsure, and so we're perseverating
about it and we can't figureout what it is, and in that like
(29:20):
state of mind, we actually stopthe flow, so the flow sticks
and it's just motionless righthere, and we feel stuck.
So to me, it is a matter ofallowing even the hard things,
the unknown, which it usuallyis, letting us embrace the fact
(29:40):
that we don't know where we'regoing.
And for me, the embrace andunderstanding that I have no
idea what's going to happentomorrow is what has brought in
some unique things into my life,like writing and podcasting, et
cetera.
Because otherwise I would havebeen like, I don't know what I'm
(30:02):
supposed to do, I don't knowwhat I'm supposed to do, I feel
it, but I don't know what it is,I don't know what it is.
And it's being okay because theultimate human condition is the
fact that all of us are goingto leave this earth and none of
us know when or how.
Cassandra (30:17):
That's right.
Sara (30:18):
And so all of these other little things are sort of part
and parcel with that.
So unknown is scary, yeah.
Um, but that's those are thetwo things I would say to anyone
who feels stuck in that place.
Cassandra (30:32):
Yeah, and um, and I like what you said, even though
you know you're in a good place,we have uh ups and downs, you
know, mountain peaks, valleys,and all of that.
However, when you know, and andwe're all different.
I am a woman of God, a woman offaith, and you know, I can
(30:53):
recall getting into that space,knowing that it's something, and
I remember crying out to God,what is it that you want me to
do?
You know, I actually uh wrote abook.
The name of my book is Is YourWay in Your Way, same as the
podcast, and I have a chapter inthere, and I call it the chair
(31:13):
experience because that's when Iwas at my wits' end, knowing
there was something else thatwas going on with me, but I just
couldn't figure it out.
And you're right, just kind ofstay in the moment.
And I always say, when you'reready, the teacher will appear,
you know.
But you gotta be ready.
It's really weird, and and youwant to be open, don't shut
(31:35):
yourself out because you don'tknow you know what you're
missing.
And sometimes I say, What's theworst that can happen?
You know, in the in that state.
And it's interesting when yourstepfather passed, you started
thinking, but yeah, that was in2020, but you said in 2021,
afterwards, a year after you gotstuck.
(31:57):
You know, absolutely, yeah.
Sara (32:00):
You got stuck.
I got stuck probably lastmonth, Cassandra.
I mean, truly, I'm not I yes,it in some way, maybe a smaller
way, but in some way, yeah.
Cassandra (32:10):
And that and that's okay.
And I think that was therebirth of the fact that I wrote
the book is to help guide andpower women to get unstuck, you
know, because I always say, youcan't tell me if you've not been
there yourself.
Sara (32:27):
Yeah.
Cassandra (32:28):
Certain things.
So I have this this this uhthis uh a signature program
titled um um the rise journey,you know, and and and that's you
know, for us to rise beyondlimits, you know, so I can
really, really relate with you.
And one of the things you saidis you talk about pressure being
(32:51):
more than just stress.
Where do you think internalpressure comes from?
Sara (32:56):
Oh, you know, I often talk about life as like a circle or
a clock.
I actually view it in my headas a clock.
Um and I see us as, you know,when we're born, we're these
pure, for lack of a better word,whole beings.
And then we move through lifeand we layer.
(33:19):
So we layer stuff, we layerstories, we layer external
pressures, we layer societalsystems, we just layer, layer,
layer, layer.
So that to me becomes such asignificant pressure on us.
So it's not only, oh my gosh,I've got to, you know, complete
(33:41):
that budget projection.
It is, it is also who am I inaccordance with this, that, this
today.
It's social media, the what thereader thinks I should be, what
my parents, my children, myhusband.
So you layer all of this, andthat becomes such it, it's just
a constant weight on us, um,energetically, spiritually,
(34:07):
emotionally.
And I think that a lot of usget to a space where all of a
sudden we're like, wait aminute, I can't, I I can't
handle this space any longer.
And you start to push thepieces away.
And you know, that can look tome, that's as metaphorical as
(34:29):
going through your closet as itis anything else.
Um, so you start pushing away,pushing away until you end up at
at death, essentially, the samepure and unencumbered that you
were in life.
But from a pressureperspective, I don't think it's
just stress.
(34:50):
I mean, all the world that welive in, if we are
externalizing, create stress.
And so I often think now, likeI used to live from the outside
in.
I was, and that's what was inmy way was I measured myself
against everything the externalworld was telling me.
(35:13):
And now I live from the insideout, so I measure myself in
accordance with me.
Cassandra (35:21):
Wow, that's good.
That's awesome because we docompare ourselves too.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh my goodness, yes, we do.
Yeah, um, you you have um adeep conversation podcast.
Yeah, yeah.
Let me ask you this, but so thepeople that you have there, and
(35:47):
and one of your things you saidyou learn from people who are
making a difference in theworld, right?
Are there any common themes youare discovering with these deep
conversations?
Like what's coming out ofthose?
Sara (36:03):
So it is it's the collecting insight podcast, and
we explore being human.
And and we so my podcastpartner and I um were
acquaintances only when westarted this a year and a half
ago.
And we come, we look at theworld very differently.
We are very differentideologically, we're very
(36:25):
different in how we perceive theworld, but what we shared is
this desire to serve.
And so it was reallyinteresting.
We would have coffeeconversations initially that
were really interesting becausewe try to find this space that
is human between us.
And so we developed thispodcast and we've had wonderful
(36:49):
conversations with people, and Ithink what what I've found and
what we've found is that lifeitself is a complex journey of
everything, and that we ourhuman spirit is the strongest
(37:11):
thing that any of us has.
It's what gets us through thedifficult times, it's what we're
all trying to discover.
And I think what's mostbeautiful is the recognition
that we're all connected.
So through these conversationsin our on our podcast and
(37:33):
conversations with people likeyou, we are all one people
connected.
We are in this web of being, inthis, on this earth and in this
universe.
And the more each of us canshare who we are, share our
stories, be vulnerable, I guess,um, but truthful about all of
(37:57):
what it takes to be human inthis world, I think it makes
each of us stronger.
So I feel like I am a morewhole person today because of
all of the conversations thatI've been honored and privileged
to have over the last year andthat's really, really good.
Cassandra (38:18):
Um I'm gonna we're gonna wrap up because I could
continue to speak with you.
Uh, but what you just said justmade me think about how we all
need each other.
We can't do anything byourselves, you know.
Um, you know, and that's that'sthat's the the connection, you
(38:41):
know.
Um, but anyway, I'll get offthat soapbox.
That's for another thing.
I love it.
When when you did, and I justwant you to share this with my
listeners as we wrap up.
When you did your 2025commencement speech, um you
wanted given that speech, youwanted the class to get
(39:02):
something out of that.
Okay, they're young and theyhave a full life, God willing,
ahead of them.
What would you want mylisteners to get out of what
we've just discussed today?
Sara (39:16):
Um, so in that commencement speech and in this
conversation, um I had threemessages that I think will ring
true as uh embodiment of who Itry to be and share with the
world.
And that is first to live true,so to live true to yourself,
(39:40):
second is to love fully, so tolove this life, each other, the
beauty that we get to consumeevery day in the natural world
and in our relationships.
And then the last thing, and sothat's what I'll dive into a
little bit, is to dream theimpossible.
(40:02):
Because to me, we hear a lotabout dreaming big.
Yeah, but I wanted all of thosepeople, everyone in the
audience, to dream beyond big.
Because as you stated in thevery beginning, I didn't think
that I would become anythingmore than what I'd already
become (40:24):
a CEO, a board leader, a community leader.
Uh I didn't think that I wouldhad anything else to be.
And then all of a sudden, Ibecame a poet and I became a
podcast host, and I became a thespiritual thought leader.
And so to me, our mind.
(40:45):
Are limiting in what we canimagine ourselves to be.
So if anyone out there thinksthat one thing that they feel in
their heart is impossible, youfeel it because it's possible.
Go out there and get it.
Cassandra (41:04):
Yeah, that's good, Sarah.
Thank you for that.
So what I'm hearing is live,love, and dream the impossible.
Yes.
Sarah, how can my listeners getin touch with you?
Sara (41:15):
Thank you for asking that, Cassandra.
Um, they can get in touch withme best through my website,
which is Sarah SByers.com.
And they can follow along withpoetry and thought leadership at
my Instagram page, which isDearJoyLove.
Cassandra (41:33):
Okay, alrighty.
Well, Sarah, thank you so much.
And for my listeners, I knowthat lots said today really
resonated with you.
And I encourage you to sharethis podcast with somebody that
you know this would bless.
Um and and also um rememberthis.
(41:56):
I always said I love you.
I always say God bless you.
Thank you, Sarah, and everybodysay I say bye for now.
Thank you, Sarah.
Thank you, Cassandra.
Good day out there to all my listeners, and I'd like
to welcome you to Is Your Wayand Your Way.
And for those new listeners outthere, my name, and I'm your
host, is Cassandra Crawley Mayo.
And I have a question for you.
What happens when the worldtells you you've made it?
And what I mean by that, let'ssay, you know, you're almost
(00:47):
about to retire or you're doingreally well, your kids are grown
up and you're really saturatedin your community and just a
lot.
But yet inside you feel alittle lost, although you've
accomplished a lot, are stillaccomplishing.
But my guest today, her name isSarah Byers, and she was a CEO
(01:12):
for over 20 years.
She was juggling success, um,family, and community.
But it wasn't until thisheartbreaking loss of a loved
one.
And I know a lot of you canrelate, it's just something that
that just resonates with youthat make you like sit down and
(01:32):
pause for a minute.
And and by doing that, shediscovers success doesn't always
mean wholeness.
So today we're going to talkabout the courage to embrace all
parts of yourself, the polishedand the vulnerable, the
strategic and the spiritual, andwhy true freedom comes from
(01:54):
when we stop being in our ownway.
This conversation willchallenge how you see
leadership, success, and evenyourself.
And I'd like to introduce youto my guest.
And her name again is SarahByers.
Hello, Sarah.
Sara (02:10):
Hello, Cassandra.
Hello, everyone.
I'm so happy to be here.
Thank you for that beautifulintroduction.
Wow.
Cassandra (02:16):
You are so welcome.
And you know, for my listeners,they know that we talk about
topics related to personalimprovement, self-improvement,
uh, self-development, and all ofthat.
But today, you know, our topicis going to be its titled
Becoming a High Achieving,Becoming All of You.
(02:43):
Let me say that.
From high achieving to fullyalive.
Okay.
I'm telling you, from highachieving to fully alive.
So um, Sarah, one of the thingsI'd like to start with is I
want to read a little bit ofyour bio so that my end of my
audience will understand whatqualifies you to for us to talk
(03:07):
about what we get ready to talkabout.
Sara (03:08):
Okay.
Cassandra (03:09):
So Sarah is on a mission, guys, to help people
lighten the burdens they carryand rediscover the joy of living
with authenticity andconnection.
She's a CEO, Oversight to aFamily Business, Leonardo's
Pizza.
She's an inspirational speakerand channel poet.
(03:30):
She has woven her leadershipexperience and spiritual
insights into a life of impactand service.
She is the author of two poetrycollections, Heart and Moon and
Wise Stars, and a co-host, theCollecting Insight podcast,
where she explores the beautyand complexity of the human
(03:53):
experience.
Whether leading a business,writing from the heart, or
speaking on stage, she inspiresothers to unlock their innate
power to create more love, hope,and humanity in the world.
So, Sarah, tell my listenerswho is Sarah Byers?
(04:14):
Like, for example, like tell usyour backstory before you
started working for your dadfull time.
What's going on with Sarah?
Sara (04:23):
I love that question.
And thank you for sort ofcreating that container for it
because who I sort of was almostat the beginning is who I'm
becoming again.
And that's been just a wildjourney.
Um, so it's interesting as achild, uh very young child, I
was I always had a microphone inmy hand.
(04:45):
If I could have a microphone,then I would be talking
essentially gibberish to it.
Um and I uh when I was 13, I Ithought no one asked me to, but
I thought I had to keep thissecret in my family.
And that sounds significant,but I thought I had to keep it
or else it was gonna hurt myfamily.
(05:07):
And um that is whereunbeknownst to me, I started to
develop pretty severe anxiety,actually.
Um and that anxiety, eventhough I was the responsible one
in my family, I had a sisterwho has suffered with substance
(05:28):
use disorder for 35 years.
Um but I I so I had to, eventhough I felt that crippling
anxiety, I still had to be theresponsible one, the capable
one, the one who is going to tryto hold it all together.
And uh so through my life, thatanxiety up until my joining my
(05:52):
family's business sort of chasedme.
It was like it was right behindme, and I was trying to outrun
it as fast as I possibly could.
Um, so that I actually uh wentto college and um it became so
significant I couldn't getmyself to go to class.
Cassandra (06:10):
Wow.
Sara (06:11):
And so I dropped out of college and I was working uh for
the Gap in Banana Republic atthe time, so retail clothing
store.
Yeah.
And I started to move forwardwith them.
Um I became promoted, I startedmoving around the country into
a variety of management andleadership roles, and uh
(06:35):
ultimately found myself fromCincinnati, Ohio to South
Florida, Miami, Fort Lauderdale,and then finally to Charlotte,
North Carolina.
Um and I, you know, was withinthat company I learned a
tremendous amount.
It was 12 years of amazingeducation.
(06:55):
And um, but I was still in aspace where I'm not, I'm I was
trying to be what everyonewanted me to be on the outside.
I was sort of externalizing.
So I was epitomizing the uhquintessential gap leader.
(07:15):
Um and I was about to receive apromotion to move to Houston,
Texas.
And my boyfriend at the timeand I, I visited home Vermont
every summer.
Cassandra (07:29):
Okay.
Sara (07:29):
And that summer I got to the airport to come back, move
go back to Charlotte.
And I just had thisoverwhelming feeling, I cannot
explain it, but that I needed tomove back home to Vermont.
Now it made no sense.
Um, I the gap I'd moved to acertain level that Vermont
(07:50):
didn't have those opportunities.
Um and so I spent about threemonths thinking about this
because I could still feel it.
It's sort of like when yourhead and your heart are in
competition, because it made nosense.
Cassandra (08:03):
Yeah, yeah.
Sara (08:05):
And I talked to my dad who said, you know, you can come
back here, but if you come backhere, you are not like you're
not running anything, you're notmanaging, you're not, you can
work here.
Okay, but I don't care thatyou've overseen hundreds of
people or that like if you comeback here, this is what you're
doing.
And so I couldn't get away fromthe feeling.
(08:27):
So I took a 70% pay cut andmoved back home to Vermont.
And thankfully, my boyfriend,who's now my husband, uh came
with me.
Um but that was one of my firstbig leaps where it didn't make
logical sense, but it was what Ifelt.
(08:48):
I felt something bigger than mepulling me.
It was like magnetic.
Cassandra (08:53):
Wow.
Sara (08:54):
Yeah, so that was sort of the the the lead up to coming
back home.
Cassandra (09:00):
Um yeah, yeah, that's interesting because I remember
growing up, um there was a partof me that kind of wanted to
start all over wherever I moved.
I I moved a lot of places, andwhat I realized that I was
running from myself.
Yeah, and myself went with meeverywhere.
(09:21):
It's kind of like that anxiety,okay, I'm gonna go here and I'm
gonna be okay.
But yet that, you know, it'skind of like so how long are you
gonna keep running?
Sara (09:30):
Oh my gosh, so powerful.
Because yeah, I mean, I wouldsay that that is probably pretty
accurate for myself as well.
Um, and while my move back toVermont took me to a different
level of self-understanding, Istill had so much to learn.
That was in 2001, and I was 29at the time.
Cassandra (09:55):
Wow.
Now, when you were younger, youtalked about you holding a
microphone a lot.
Like, I know, like what did youhave any goals or aspirations
to it when you were growing up?
What were they?
Sara (10:09):
That's a great question.
Um, interestingly, so when Iwas 13, I um had the chance to
be a page in the Vermontlegislature, which meant that I
got to miss uh Tuesday throughFriday for during the
legislative session for a fewmonths.
I didn't have to go to schoolin eighth grade, and I got to
(10:32):
instead be a part of the VermontSenate and House and you know,
that whole entire system, whichwas pretty amazing.
And at that time, I was prettycertain I wanted to be a lawyer,
and that was um my, you know, Ijust wanted to find a way to do
good work in the world.
(10:53):
And my mother had always toldme that I could be argumentative
at the time when I was younger,um, or just debate more more a
debater.
Um and so that was myaspiration at the time was I
wanted to ultimately become aSupreme Court justice.
Oh, right.
Um, and I I identified as beinglike being smart was was my
(11:22):
only identity at that time whenI was younger.
I always my sister was thebeautiful one, I was the smart
one.
Um, and so that's why leavingschool disrupted everything for
me because I no longerconsidered myself smart, and so
I didn't know who I was.
Yeah.
Cassandra (11:41):
Right.
Yeah, that's like the statusquo.
Like, okay, that's what we'resupposed to do, go to school and
then you know, get a job, getmarried, have a white picket
fence, have some kids.
Yeah, right.
And that that wasn't okay.
So when you started working foryour dad, what was that like?
(12:03):
Because he said, What do yousay?
Now you're gonna work when youcome here, you know, even though
I own the company, don't thinkthat, you know, that you you're
privileged and you're gonna dothis and that.
What was that like?
Sara (12:16):
That was hard.
Um, and the reason it was hardwas not because I wanted to
assert necessarily the privilegeof being the owner's child, but
rather that I wanted to berecognized for the 12 years of
work I had done with this uhmassive company.
Yeah.
And so that is what was really,really hard.
(12:41):
And the structures were reallydifferent.
I was joining a family pizzabusiness.
My dad had two restaurants atthe time, and it was so
different.
I, you know, there weren'trules and structures and an
operational manual and systems,et cetera, that I was executing.
It was just, it felt, it feltwild and unruly in a way that
(13:02):
was a bit uncomfortable for me.
And my dad and I, my dad hadalways been um my greatest
cheerleader and supporter.
Um and when uh my parents gotdivorced, my father actually uh
had custody of us.
And um, so he was he meant somuch to me throughout my life.
(13:24):
And when we started to worktogether, that dynamic changed
because all of a sudden I amworking for him.
Cassandra (13:33):
Yeah.
Sara (13:33):
Um, and I'm strong-willed, and he is the founder of this
business, and so there werethere were complexities there to
try to figure out who we weregoing to be in this new dynamic
of father and daughter andemployee and owner, yeah.
So that was that was that tookthat took quite a bit of time.
Cassandra (13:57):
Okay, all right.
So although he was the owner,uh, were you believing you were
an owner too?
No, because not at all.
Sara (14:08):
Not at that time.
I am today, but then um, thenno, I did not, I did not feel
that way.
However, because of all of thethings I'd experienced, I knew I
I knew I had something tooffer.
Um, and that offering um couldbe challenging perhaps to, you
(14:32):
know, father-daughter dynamic ismy dad was always my mentor, my
leader, my guide.
And now I had this informationthat he might not have because
I'd worked for a companycorporation for 12 years.
Yeah.
Cassandra (14:50):
Right.
Okay.
So why?
So something shifted.
Okay.
Um, because you said, I'mcurious to why do you call
yourself a CEO turn soulexplorer?
Sara (15:05):
Yes.
Because um once my dad and myrelationship got figured out, um
I began to achieve.
Um, I got involved in ourcommunity.
I was chairing multiple boardsat a time.
I was being asked to speak hereand there, and I received an
(15:28):
honorary degree from a college.
I I just I started to to umachieve in ways that I never
expected in my life, um,particularly without a college
degree.
Um, and so I I just keptachieving and racking up uh, you
know, accomplishments andawards, et cetera.
(15:49):
And um at this time I was CEOof our business.
I co-owned it with my fatherand my husband.
Cassandra (15:57):
Okay.
Sara (15:58):
Um, but I was going really, really, really fast.
Um, I also had a daughter umthat you know I was trying to be
a mom to.
And in 2019, a sister of Mercy,who in Vermont was a community
leader, she and I would see eachother twice a year and exchange
(16:19):
pleasantries.
But she called me one day andshe said, You've been coming up
in my prayers for the lastcouple of months.
And I just thought you neededsome extra blessings.
So I've been sending those toyou.
But you are now coming upmorning, noon, and night.
And I feel the need to ask you,is there something in your life
(16:43):
you are not paying attentionto?
And that's I'm like, I have noidea.
I'm like, I'm busy, but I feelgood, you know.
I because I was missing everysign.
People were like, I don't knowhow you do all the things you
do, I don't know how you're on10 boards, I don't know how
you're doing this, I don't knowhow.
And I was just like, I just am,it's all good.
(17:03):
Like, I didn't get it.
Yeah.
Um, and then in 2020, mystepfather, who was uh a Vermont
senator and a lawyer himself,um had dealt with Alzheimer's
for the past 12 years.
And when he developedAlzheimer's, his hardened parts
(17:25):
began to slip away.
And I began to connect with himin a space that I didn't
understand until fairlyrecently, but it was in spirit.
I could almost feel his souland his spirit, and we became
very, very close.
And in 2020, he was moved tohospice because he was in his
final days.
(17:46):
And I was driving back andforth between my house, my
daughter and husband, andhospice.
And uh, I would listen in that20-minute drive to the music
from the Titanic movie.
Now that sounds really ominous,yeah, but I just wanted to feel
this moment because I had feltso much spirit from my
(18:08):
stepfather.
So um he passed uh one Saturdayat 6:56, and I drove home
listening to my same music.
Yeah, then I pulled onto mystreet, and I'm like, okay, it's
time for this music to come toan end.
And so I pulled up a song bythe Lumineers, and it was their
(18:30):
song Ophelia, and that's thesong that showed on my radio
screen.
Cassandra (18:35):
Uh-huh.
Sara (18:36):
But that was not the song that started playing through the
speakers, it was FrankSinatra's My Way.
Oh, wow.
And it said, and now the end isnear, so I face the final
curtain.
Right.
And I'm looking from my radio,but it doesn't say that,
listening to these words.
Uh-huh.
(18:56):
And I am like, somehow this ismy stepfather.
Cassandra (19:01):
Wow.
Sara (19:03):
And I sat there in front of my garage with the music
blaring in my ears, tearsstreaming down my face because
the same spirit I felt when hewas here, yeah, I was feeling
through this.
Cassandra (19:20):
Wow.
Sara (19:21):
And uh, you know, my mom, who is a scientist, uh read a
ton of books.
Um, she's a pretty spiritualperson, but read a ton of books
on the afterlife, death, etc.
Cassandra (19:38):
Yeah.
Sara (19:38):
And found one person that she really connected with who,
whether you believe it or not,indicated that they could
connect with the other side.
Cassandra (19:48):
Oh.
Sara (19:49):
And this person had a seven-month-long waiting list.
But my mom on Christmas Evethat year got on the phone with
this person in Arizona.
And the first thing she saidwas, There's a gentleman here
singing.
Does Frank Sinatra's My Waymean anything to you?
Cassandra (20:08):
Wow.
Sara (20:09):
And it blew my world wide open.
So when I say Soul Explorernow, it is because I believed a
certain set of things, and now II am open to things that might
be invisible, that might seemimpossible.
(20:31):
And I've explored myself and myconnection to both a creator, a
source, God, whatever your wordthat you use, myself and
everyone else.
So now I'm I I just I have I'velearned so much.
I I began writing poetry in themiddle of the night.
Cassandra (20:54):
Yes.
Sara (20:54):
Um often without recollection in the morning.
And I've written 3,000 poemsthat have guided this soul
exploration.
Cassandra (21:03):
Wow.
Sara (21:04):
Yeah.
Cassandra (21:04):
That's great.
Yeah, it's been amazing.
(21:30):
So at this time in your life,what would you so what is your
passion now?
Like you said, you're still um,you still own the business,
you're still working, yourdaughters are maybe older now.
Yep, 20.
Yeah.
Um so what's your passion nowbased on all of that?
Sara (21:53):
You know, my passion now is be is to embody all of
myself.
And I say that because it waspretty scary to have this
soulful words coming in themiddle of the night.
Cassandra (22:09):
Right.
Sara (22:10):
My feeling like I'm hearing music for my stuff, like
that with the CEO, you know,professional board, a corporate
board.
You know, um, I I'm like Ibasically kind of put this part
in hiding because I'm like, thatdoes not fit into this other
(22:30):
persona of Sarah Byers, who'ssomewhat public and it doesn't
it doesn't fit, yeah.
Um, until it became so strong,it became there, I I have no
other choice now but to be allof myself.
And so, in terms of purposenow, my purpose feels like it is
(22:54):
to be all of that, and it stillincludes, you know, in January,
I just finished chairing theVermont Business Roundtable,
which is a group of 125 CEOs.
Um, so how it's now how do Ibring that part in?
So for me, it was by, you know,the board chair speaks at the
(23:17):
start of our meetings, and it'sI'm gonna start this meeting one
day with one of my poems.
And it was really amazingbecause after I did that, I'm
the third female chair inhistory.
So that in itself is, you know,this is taking a bit of a risk.
But um, the whim many womencame up to me and said that was
(23:39):
so courageous.
And then I had men texting meafter saying, I write too.
Oh wow.
Um, but it really kind of didsomething.
So, so for me now, I I chair acollege board.
I'm like, this is just who Iam, all of it.
Yeah, and so for me, it isbeing in the spaces that I'm
(24:02):
fortunate to inhabit, meetingthe people like you that I am
blessed to be introduced to, andbeing the wholeest version.
Because when you initially sortof talked about going from high
achieving to fully alive, I nowknow what that feels like.
Yeah, it feels like being me,and that me is not a finite
(24:26):
thing, it's not like one anddone.
Oh, I found her check.
Like it is an infinitediscovery to me.
And being open to thatunlocking and de layering of who
I thought that I was, so that Icould be the conduit for
(24:47):
something greater on this earth.
Right.
Cassandra (24:49):
Exactly.
That's interesting because whenyou weren't that when you
didn't finish college, you'relike, Well, I guess I'm not
smart anymore.
You know, you you uh wasdisappointed in yourself.
But when you look back on,you're like, I I may not have
been smart for that, or that wasnot what I was called to do,
but right now I'm smart.
(25:10):
I'm okay and I feel great.
Um, and and in other words, yougot out of your way, you were
in your way because we thinkbecause we didn't go to college,
you know, my parents probablydisappointed.
I disappointed myself, youknow, and you were just in in
your way, and that's kind ofwhat this is about.
(25:30):
It's like, is your way in yourway?
And you're like, okay, becausewhen you get out of your way,
you feel you just become in agood place.
Yes, I mean, it's just amazingthe meaning that you start
having in your life, and youhad, you know, we I talk about
um uh barriers, you know, thoseself-imposed barriers, you know,
(25:53):
even the fact that your mom anddad separated.
I mean, you could have been inyour way with that, but yet look
what you did with thestepfather, look at the impact
that he had in your life, youknow.
So I think that is amazing.
And you talk about you want tohelp people connect to their
(26:14):
truest self.
How do you do that?
Because on this podcast, it'slike my lot of my listeners are
stuck.
They want they know thatthere's something else they
should be doing, but they justcan't figure it out, they don't
know what it is, or they know,but they just can't move, you
know.
It's it's I know because I'vebeen there.
(26:36):
So, how do you how do you helppeople connect to who their
truest self?
Sara (26:44):
What do you do?
Such a beautiful thank you forsaying that.
Um, because yes, so I shouldalso say I took a step away from
the day-to-day of our businessum in 2021.
And uh I was lost at first umbecause I didn't know who I was
(27:05):
without all of that.
Um and and for me, because Istill have moments, what I'm
gonna say is that I think thatthat feeling that you just
described is something that justkeeps coming and going.
So it's like a wave.
It's just you're on the top ofit, you're on the bottom, you're
(27:26):
on the top, you're on thebottom.
So it's not, we often look forthis one space where finally we
will forever feel good in ourpurpose, etc.
Yeah.
And it just doesn't happen.
However, to me, when you're inthose moments of feeling stuck,
so a couple of things.
(27:47):
One, I just started to get toknow me, and that meant even in
five-minute increments, youknow, people would tell me that
I needed to meditate or I neededto be in prayer, or I needed
like for for me, what that meansis sitting, doing nothing and
noticing myself, noticing mybody, my feelings, my thoughts
(28:11):
without attaching anything toit.
Because I started to learn thatwhen things weren't good on the
outside, when when I I would dosomething with my body, like I
will twitch my jaw, I will likeI'm now noticing how my body
responds to different things sothat I can soften into it.
(28:32):
So I'd say first is is justfinding that solitude, even if
it is five minutes, um, becausethat solitude allows you to get
to know yourself because we'rerunning so fast.
I don't, I think we'relistening to our mind, but we
miss the heart.
So um, and then the secondthing is that to me, I see life.
(28:58):
I just mentioned a wave.
I I do see it as water, so Isee everything is sort of
flowing through, and that whenwe get in that stuck place, it's
almost because we're inresistance to something.
Like we're we we we are notsure, and so we're perseverating
about it and we can't figureout what it is, and in that like
(29:20):
state of mind, we actually stopthe flow, so the flow sticks
and it's just motionless righthere, and we feel stuck.
So to me, it is a matter ofallowing even the hard things,
the unknown, which it usuallyis, letting us embrace the fact
(29:40):
that we don't know where we'regoing.
And for me, the embrace andunderstanding that I have no
idea what's going to happentomorrow is what has brought in
some unique things into my life,like writing and podcasting, et
cetera.
Because otherwise I would havebeen like, I don't know what I'm
(30:02):
supposed to do, I don't knowwhat I'm supposed to do, I feel
it, but I don't know what it is,I don't know what it is.
And it's being okay because theultimate human condition is the
fact that all of us are goingto leave this earth and none of
us know when or how.
Cassandra (30:17):
That's right.
Sara (30:18):
And so all of these other little things are sort of part
and parcel with that.
So unknown is scary, yeah.
Um, but that's those are thetwo things I would say to anyone
who feels stuck in that place.
Cassandra (30:32):
Yeah, and um, and I like what you said, even though
you know you're in a good place,we have uh ups and downs, you
know, mountain peaks, valleys,and all of that.
However, when you know, and andwe're all different.
I am a woman of God, a woman offaith, and you know, I can
(30:53):
recall getting into that space,knowing that it's something, and
I remember crying out to God,what is it that you want me to
do?
You know, I actually uh wrote abook.
The name of my book is Is YourWay in Your Way, same as the
podcast, and I have a chapter inthere, and I call it the chair
(31:13):
experience because that's when Iwas at my wits' end, knowing
there was something else thatwas going on with me, but I just
couldn't figure it out.
And you're right, just kind ofstay in the moment.
And I always say, when you'reready, the teacher will appear,
you know.
But you gotta be ready.
It's really weird, and and youwant to be open, don't shut
(31:35):
yourself out because you don'tknow you know what you're
missing.
And sometimes I say, What's theworst that can happen?
You know, in the in that state.
And it's interesting when yourstepfather passed, you started
thinking, but yeah, that was in2020, but you said in 2021,
afterwards, a year after you gotstuck.
(31:57):
You know, absolutely, yeah.
Sara (32:00):
You got stuck.
I got stuck probably lastmonth, Cassandra.
I mean, truly, I'm not I yes,it in some way, maybe a smaller
way, but in some way, yeah.
Cassandra (32:10):
And that and that's okay.
And I think that was therebirth of the fact that I wrote
the book is to help guide andpower women to get unstuck, you
know, because I always say, youcan't tell me if you've not been
there yourself.
Sara (32:27):
Yeah.
Cassandra (32:28):
Certain things.
So I have this this this uhthis uh a signature program
titled um um the rise journey,you know, and and and that's you
know, for us to rise beyondlimits, you know, so I can
really, really relate with you.
And one of the things you saidis you talk about pressure being
(32:51):
more than just stress.
Where do you think internalpressure comes from?
Sara (32:56):
Oh, you know, I often talk about life as like a circle or
a clock.
I actually view it in my headas a clock.
Um and I see us as, you know,when we're born, we're these
pure, for lack of a better word,whole beings.
And then we move through lifeand we layer.
(33:19):
So we layer stuff, we layerstories, we layer external
pressures, we layer societalsystems, we just layer, layer,
layer, layer.
So that to me becomes such asignificant pressure on us.
So it's not only, oh my gosh,I've got to, you know, complete
(33:41):
that budget projection.
It is, it is also who am I inaccordance with this, that, this
today.
It's social media, the what thereader thinks I should be, what
my parents, my children, myhusband.
So you layer all of this, andthat becomes such it, it's just
a constant weight on us, um,energetically, spiritually,
(34:07):
emotionally.
And I think that a lot of usget to a space where all of a
sudden we're like, wait aminute, I can't, I I can't
handle this space any longer.
And you start to push thepieces away.
And you know, that can look tome, that's as metaphorical as
(34:29):
going through your closet as itis anything else.
Um, so you start pushing away,pushing away until you end up at
at death, essentially, the samepure and unencumbered that you
were in life.
But from a pressureperspective, I don't think it's
just stress.
(34:50):
I mean, all the world that welive in, if we are
externalizing, create stress.
And so I often think now, likeI used to live from the outside
in.
I was, and that's what was inmy way was I measured myself
against everything the externalworld was telling me.
(35:13):
And now I live from the insideout, so I measure myself in
accordance with me.
Cassandra (35:21):
Wow, that's good.
That's awesome because we docompare ourselves too.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh my goodness, yes, we do.
Yeah, um, you you have um adeep conversation podcast.
Yeah, yeah.
Let me ask you this, but so thepeople that you have there, and
(35:47):
and one of your things you saidyou learn from people who are
making a difference in theworld, right?
Are there any common themes youare discovering with these deep
conversations?
Like what's coming out ofthose?
Sara (36:03):
So it is it's the collecting insight podcast, and
we explore being human.
And and we so my podcastpartner and I um were
acquaintances only when westarted this a year and a half
ago.
And we come, we look at theworld very differently.
We are very differentideologically, we're very
(36:25):
different in how we perceive theworld, but what we shared is
this desire to serve.
And so it was reallyinteresting.
We would have coffeeconversations initially that
were really interesting becausewe try to find this space that
is human between us.
And so we developed thispodcast and we've had wonderful
(36:49):
conversations with people, and Ithink what what I've found and
what we've found is that lifeitself is a complex journey of
everything, and that we ourhuman spirit is the strongest
(37:11):
thing that any of us has.
It's what gets us through thedifficult times, it's what we're
all trying to discover.
And I think what's mostbeautiful is the recognition
that we're all connected.
So through these conversationsin our on our podcast and
(37:33):
conversations with people likeyou, we are all one people
connected.
We are in this web of being, inthis, on this earth and in this
universe.
And the more each of us canshare who we are, share our
stories, be vulnerable, I guess,um, but truthful about all of
(37:57):
what it takes to be human inthis world, I think it makes
each of us stronger.
So I feel like I am a morewhole person today because of
all of the conversations thatI've been honored and privileged
to have over the last year andthat's really, really good.
Cassandra (38:18):
Um I'm gonna we're gonna wrap up because I could
continue to speak with you.
Uh, but what you just said justmade me think about how we all
need each other.
We can't do anything byourselves, you know.
Um, you know, and that's that'sthat's the the connection, you
(38:41):
know.
Um, but anyway, I'll get offthat soapbox.
That's for another thing.
I love it.
When when you did, and I justwant you to share this with my
listeners as we wrap up.
When you did your 2025commencement speech, um you
wanted given that speech, youwanted the class to get
(39:02):
something out of that.
Okay, they're young and theyhave a full life, God willing,
ahead of them.
What would you want mylisteners to get out of what
we've just discussed today?
Sara (39:16):
Um, so in that commencement speech and in this
conversation, um I had threemessages that I think will ring
true as uh embodiment of who Itry to be and share with the
world.
And that is first to live true,so to live true to yourself,
(39:40):
second is to love fully, so tolove this life, each other, the
beauty that we get to consumeevery day in the natural world
and in our relationships.
And then the last thing, and sothat's what I'll dive into a
little bit, is to dream theimpossible.
(40:02):
Because to me, we hear a lotabout dreaming big.
Yeah, but I wanted all of thosepeople, everyone in the
audience, to dream beyond big.
Because as you stated in thevery beginning, I didn't think
that I would become anythingmore than what I'd already
become (40:24):
a CEO, a board leader, a community leader.
Uh I didn't think that I wouldhad anything else to be.
And then all of a sudden, Ibecame a poet and I became a
podcast host, and I became a thespiritual thought leader.
And so to me, our mind.
(40:45):
Are limiting in what we canimagine ourselves to be.
So if anyone out there thinksthat one thing that they feel in
their heart is impossible, youfeel it because it's possible.
Go out there and get it.
Cassandra (41:04):
Yeah, that's good, Sarah.
Thank you for that.
So what I'm hearing is live,love, and dream the impossible.
Yes.
Sarah, how can my listeners getin touch with you?
Sara (41:15):
Thank you for asking that, Cassandra.
Um, they can get in touch withme best through my website,
which is Sarah SByers.com.
And they can follow along withpoetry and thought leadership at
my Instagram page, which isDearJoyLove.
Cassandra (41:33):
Okay, alrighty.
Well, Sarah, thank you so much.
And for my listeners, I knowthat lots said today really
resonated with you.
And I encourage you to sharethis podcast with somebody that
you know this would bless.
Um and and also um rememberthis.
(41:56):
I always said I love you.
I always say God bless you.
Thank you, Sarah, and everybodysay I say bye for now.
Thank you, Sarah.
Thank you, Cassandra.
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