June 25, 2025 • 43 mins
Are you hiding your greatest professional strength? For many introverts, the quiet qualities that set them apart are often perceived as weaknesses to overcome rather than powerful assets to leverage. Leadership coach Stacey Chazen joins Cassandra to shatter this misconception and reveal how embracing your introversion can transform your career trajectory.
From her earliest school experiences, Stacey received the message that her introverted tendencies weren't enough – that she needed to be more social, more collaborative, more outgoing to succeed. This narrative followed her into her professional life until a pivotal Myers-Briggs assessment opened her eyes to the unique gifts her introversion offered. That revelation changed everything.
Through her framework of appreciative coaching, Stacey guides listeners to identify their "positive core" – the unique combination of strengths that emerge when reflecting on your peak experiences. Rather than trying to fix perceived weaknesses, she demonstrates how building on these inherent qualities creates a more authentic and powerful leadership presence. The statistics are striking: while approximately 50% of the population identifies as introverted, only 2% of senior executives do, suggesting enormous untapped potential.
The conversation offers practical strategies for workplace success, from task batching to prevent energy drain to effective networking approaches that play to introverted strengths. Stacey challenges the myth that introverts make poor presenters, pointing out that their natural preparation abilities and storytelling skills often make them exceptional communicators when working with their natural tendencies rather than against them.
Whether you identify as an introvert seeking to advance your career, an extrovert trying to better understand colleagues, or someone supporting team members with diverse communication styles, this episode provides actionable insights to transform how introversion is perceived and leveraged in professional settings. Ready to stop apologizing for being quiet and start embracing the power of your natural strengths?
Get ready to break free from obstacles and live life on your terms!
Are you readdy to create and design your best life?
If so, click the link here.
To make sure you never miss an episode, make sure you subscribe to the podcast and head on over to www.cassandracrawley.com and join our mailing list.
To get a copy of my brand-new book, "Is Your Way In Your Way", visit https://www.cassandracrawley.com
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cassandracrawleymayo
- Website: https://www.cassandracrawley.com
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cassandra_crawleymayo/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cassandracrawley/
- YouTube: https://cassandracrawleymayo
- x: https://www.tiktok.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cassandra (00:00):
Good day out there to all of my listeners and I'd
like to welcome you to Is yourWay In your Way podcast, and I'm
your host.
My name is CassandraCrawley-Mayo, and, for those new
listeners out there that havenot ever heard this podcast, let
me just share with you whatit's about.
It's actually about it's forindividuals who are, what I say,
(00:21):
stuck Stuck because you knowthat it's something within
yourself that you should bedoing, such as maybe you want to
be an author, maybe you want tobe a coach, perhaps you want to
change jobs, you want to bepromoted, and you just have not
been able to take action to doso, and many times when that
happens, we have all theseself-imposed barriers that's
(00:44):
preventing us to do that.
So, whenever we talk aboutthese are some topics that we
talk about related to what I sayself-improvement, business
improvement, self-reflection.
This will enable you to maybeself-reflect on some things, and
I am always prayerful that it'ssomething said in one of my
(01:08):
podcasts with my special guests,that it'll be something for you
to like wow, it's like anepiphany.
I got it and you know what.
I'm going to take this stepforward and I'm so glad that I
had the opportunity to listen tothis podcast, and today I have
(01:28):
a special guest on, but let metell you what we're going to
talk about, though.
We're going to talk aboutbreaking down those self-imposed
barriers of introversion, andwe're going to talk about
introversion just in case you'renot clear on what that's all
about, and my special guest isStacey Chazen.
(01:49):
Hello, stacey, she's an iFactorleadership, that's her company.
Hello, how are you today?
Stacey (01:56):
Hello Cassandra.
It's great to be here.
I am doing well, thanks yeahit's great having you.
Cassandra (02:01):
This subject is so dear to my heart because that's
me, that has been me.
I was born that way, as hard asI try, but anyway, we're going
to get all into that and I'mhopeful, as I indicated earlier,
that something that's going tobe said to say, ah, that's me
and I can do whatever my mind isset to do regardless.
(02:25):
Okay, so first, what I'd liketo do is read Stacey's bio.
I like to read a little bitabout my guest so that you all
get a deeper understanding ofwhat she is about, not who she
is, but in other words, itqualifies her to kind of go talk
about what we're going to talkabout today.
So she is a dynamic leadershipdevelopment coach and a proud
(02:50):
introvert.
She is rewriting the narrativeon introversion.
Stacey underwent a remarkabletransformative transformation
after grappling with societalexpectations that favored
extroverts.
Instead of conforming tosocietal pressures, she embraced
(03:12):
her introversion qualities.
She turned them into powerfulassets that allowed her to
thrive both professionally andpersonally.
Now, as a fervent advocate forintroverts, she draws on her
extensive corporate andnonprofit experience.
She has a master's inorganizational development and
(03:34):
leadership and she's certifiedas a Myers-Briggs type indicator
practitioner that empowersintroverts, guiding them towards
self-acceptance, fulfillmentand success in the workplace.
And boy, this is a topic for metoo, guys, and I know it's for
you, because that societalpressure really put some
(03:56):
self-imposed barriers in my way,because I was what they called
quiet, but I always like to sayI was a quiet storm, but anyway,
let's see, I love that.
So, stacey, tell us a littlebit about your backstory before
you was working, before workingin corporate.
Stacey (04:17):
So my backstory, my backstory, related to how I had
this epiphany about myintroversion I can start with
that and a little bit about myjourney.
So I think my backstoryactually starts when I thought
about it, when I was inpreschool.
And I say that because whenwe're as young as two or three
years old and we begin tosocialize, we begin to be in
(04:38):
social environments, we start tohear messages from our
preschool teachers.
Let's say that being moresocial, having more friends,
wanting to play with other kidson the playground rather than
going off by yourself, all ofthose things were better than if
you actually did want to builda tower with blocks on your own,
or or read a book or do apuzzle by yourself.
(05:00):
And we hear messages as we'regoing through school Right,
collaborating is better, havingmore friends is better, going
out on more Saturday nights whenyou're in high school is
somehow better than if you'restaying home and watching a
movie or God forbid reading abook.
And we start to hear, eventhough we might not have
identified as being introverts,myself included, we get this
(05:22):
message that the way that we arewired and we like to be is
somehow not enough.
And I heard the same message incollege.
I started off when I firstgraduated from college.
I worked in public relations,which, as I look back now, it's
kind of a crazy career to gointo as an introvert.
I didn't have self-awareness andit wasn't for me.
(05:43):
I did not like picking up thephone and there was no email.
Back then it was very early inthe email days.
I didn't like the phone andpitching stories to people I
didn't know, and I eventuallywent back to school and started
working in the health policyspace after I got a master's in
public health and while thesubject matter was, it really
(06:05):
fueled me.
It was my passion.
I got the same discouragingmessages at work that I needed
to collaborate more with otherpeople, I needed to be more
social.
The way that I was and that Iengaged with other people was
somehow not enough.
And I had the great fortune ofhaving the opportunity to take a
(06:28):
Myers-Briggs type indicatorassessment which, for your
listeners who might not knowMyers-Briggs or MBTI, it's one
of the it's the world's mostcommonly used personality and
one of the dimensions it shareswith you is whether you are
introverted or extroverted.
And for your audience, whomight not be familiar with those
(06:49):
terms, when we're talking aboutintroverted versus extroverted,
what we reallyverts tend to befueled by time spent alone or
time spent with just one otherperson.
(07:09):
Having the opportunity to godeep in some subject matter
areas, to really sit with topicsand let them marinate and be
thoughtful.
That's what fuels us, whilepeople who are extroverted are
energized by engaging withothers, thinking out loud, you
know, doing the collaboration,all that stuff.
That's right.
So I took this MBTI assessment.
(07:33):
I said, oh, that's who I am,yeah, and it's it.
Didn't just tell me that's whoI am, but it.
It shed light for me on whatabout being an introvert
actually makes me pretty greatand all makes all introverts
great that we have these um,we're deep thinkers, we're
analytical, we're empathetic somany traits that I can talk a
little bit more about.
(07:54):
But I started going down thispath where I had a lot more
self-awareness of what made mestrong and I realized that a lot
of that was rooted in myintroversion.
Cassandra (08:14):
That's good.
I love this topic because I too, listeners, I am an introvert
and I was sharing with Stacey,before she came on, how it
really impacted the I say,self-inflicted barriers on
myself.
I didn't think I was goodenough, I didn't want to.
I felt if I said something, noone would listen to me.
And they didn't.
(08:34):
Actually, you know, someonespoke louder and said the same
thing I said, but differently,and they will listen to, you
know.
And if I spoke up, I'm like wow.
So I just, I just was like, andyou're.
And if I spoke up, I'm like wow.
So I just I just was like, andyou're right, I love the part
about the energy.
I don't get it.
Well, let me ask you this I canlike there are people that if I
(08:57):
share with them I'm anintrovert, they don't believe it
.
Yeah, I believe it.
Yeah, have you experienced that?
Experienced that?
Why?
Why don't they believe that,even though that's what we are?
Stacey (09:07):
they're like so shocked because people have a lot of
misperceptions about what itmeans to be introverted and and
so, for example, let me ask youthis question has anyone ever
said is part of the reasonthey're surprised because you're
a podcast host, right?
Do they say, yeah, you could be?
Cassandra (09:23):
doing that if you're introverted, exactly, exactly,
exactly, yeah.
And another thing, like if I'mat events, I may end up knowing
everybody.
Yeah, it's interesting knowingwho I need to know, but yet I'm
better one on one Right, andwhat you're describing is
introversion.
Stacey (09:40):
So a couple of things like one.
There are all these myths,right.
There are myths that introverts, that we don't like people,
that we don't like to work withpeople, that we don't like to
network, that we don't like togo to parties.
We can do, we can do all thesethings.
We just do them in our, in ourown introverted way, or we need
to do it in our, in anintroverted way, which means we
(10:07):
need to tap into our strengthswhen we do this, not trying to
do them the way that extrovertsdo.
And when you say that peopleare surprised, right.
You and I are having a one onone conversation right now.
Cassandra (10:15):
That is an introvert's sweet spot.
Stacey (10:18):
Yes, I love it.
It's not at all surprising.
I can't tell you how many mostof the podcasts that I've been
on.
Surprising I can't tell you howmany most of the podcasts that
I've been on the hosts have beenintroverted Really.
Yeah Well, of course thatexplains a little bit why
they're interested in me as aguest, but I think that they are
very it's very widespread.
Because you're not engaging,even though you have all these
(10:39):
listeners out, you know, in theairwaves.
As far as you're concernedyou're just looking at me, right
?
You're not having aconversation with um hundreds or
thousands of people wow, wow,so listen.
Cassandra (10:52):
So how do you change the narrative for those out
there that are introverted andfeeling like it's a bad thing,
or you know, because they'requiet and and they don't speak
up in meetings, like a greatexample is not speaking up, so
they don't think you're reallyqualified for the next position
or something you hit the nail onthe head and I'll give you for
(11:16):
the show notes.
Stacey (11:16):
I actually have a meeting playbook for introverts
with strategies to have your,your voice heard, your ideas
shine.
It's a free download.
I'll give you the link for that.
But the way I approach it withmy coaching clients and I have a
coaching practice through mybusiness which is called iFactor
Leadership, and I use aframework called appreciative
(11:38):
coaching, which essentiallymeans that we approach who you
are as an individual, as aleader, entirely through a
positive lens, and we start offby um.
I guide you to identify what'scalled your positive core, and
your positive core isessentially the best of who you
are.
Okay, and you can do that by andI'm going to share this with
(12:00):
your listeners because you don'tneed to work with a coach to do
this you can kind of dip yourtoes in it at home, and a way to
do that is to sit down with apen and paper or a computer, if
you like, to type instead andreflect on peak experiences in
your life, especially.
They could be at work, theycould be in your personal life,
and peak experiences are timeswhen you felt really great about
(12:22):
what you're doing yeah, youcontributed, that you made an
impact, that you were engagingwith others generally happy
moments and write these down,reflect on what they look like
and what your role was, and thenthink about what skills or
strengths did you bring to bear?
And when you look across theseexperiences, in all likelihood
(12:44):
you're going to see some commonstrengths and roles and gifts
emerge.
So, for example, one of my onepiece of my positive core and I
(13:05):
was most energized at timeswhere I had an opportunity to
write I wrote an issue brief, Iwrote a strategic plan or a
proposal.
You know what it looks like.
Writing is showing up in anumber of these experiences.
I bet that's part of my positivecore the best I am and you'll
start to see these strengthsthat show up over and over again
(13:29):
and you can begin to keep alist of those and then recognize
when you're havingopportunities to use them in
your work life, in your personallife, and not only when you're
given opportunities, but seekthem out, them out right.
If you find that you're astrong writer, if you identify
that you are highly empatheticand you're very good at helping
(13:51):
with conflict resolution allright opportunities to mediate
or to create a mentoring program, set up a peer-to-peer support
program, opportunities to letyou use that empathy, for
example, because you're great.
You just sometimes need to sitback and and reflect on the fact
(14:12):
that you've made all thesewonderful contributions and what
.
What set you up to do that.
Cassandra (14:17):
Wow, your evidence based coaching and framework is
empowering.
How is that?
Stacey (14:29):
It's empowering because it's entirely rooted in the
positive, so it starts off withidentifying your strengths.
What's great about you?
Right, you know I'm using thegeneric I.
I'm highly empathetic, I'm astrong writer, I am an
analytical thinker.
I am a analytical thinker, I ama great storyteller.
(14:51):
These are all typicalintroverted strengths.
As we take a look at those andsay, okay, what is your dream
future in some area?
Right, let's say, you want tobe a motivating team leader, or
you want, maybe you want to bethe CEO of your company.
Or maybe you want to be the CEOof your company, maybe you want
to be someone who is known as asafe and trusted space for
problem solving.
It could be anything, really.
(15:12):
And then what I do is I guideyou to create a plan, design a
plan that helps you use yourstrengths, use your positive
core, to get to that goal, toget to that dream, that dream
future that you've identifiedfor yourself.
So it's not about how do I fixsomething.
It's how do I build on what'sworking and the strengths and
(15:33):
gifts that I already have.
Cassandra (15:35):
OK, ok.
So let's say, for example, mylisteners, who are stuck and
there's certain things they wantto do, right, be a coach or
whatever, and they are can'tseem to move forward and maybe
(15:55):
because of those self-imposedbarriers why they're unable to
move forward.
And this is this could be forextroverts or introvert, but yet
for those who are introverted,you know, and let's say, while
they're in the process of that,somebody comes to them and says
(16:15):
I don't know if, if I give you agreat example, oh no, how could
she all this briefing?
She doesn't talk up, shedoesn't, she's not able to
express herself because she'skind of quiet.
(16:35):
Now, let's say you had a clientlike that, how would you help
them to overcome those naysayers?
Would would you say why don'tyou pivot and focus on your
positive?
Or how?
How could they overcome that?
Stacey (16:51):
Well, first of all I'd start with don't listen to the
naysayers.
Someone's saying that to you.
They're not in your corner,they're not helping you succeed.
So, I think that we need tounhook ourselves from the
opinions of others and I knowthat you're said than done but
not to base our validation inthe opinions of others.
(17:14):
So that's first and foremost.
Okay.
Look yourself from thatnegativity, from the oh.
How do I change that person'smind?
You know, unless that person isthe one you want to hire you,
you shouldn't have to care.
Okay, sure, you're not to care.
Okay.
And then, yeah, it's workingwith that person to identify if
she's looking for some moreconfidence because she has
(17:36):
internalized the fact that shethinks she's not a powerful
speaker or she's not good atbuilding a strong argument.
It's helping her.
I would start with what's yourpositive core?
Let's reflect on some time ormaybe you were in a club and
maybe you had a volunteeractivity, maybe you had a
(17:56):
part-time job before law schooland to think about ways in those
different situations that shewas able to find to show that.
And it could be.
I'll give you an example.
Like maybe she was a babysitterin high school or college and
she could find a time where shewas able to resolve conflict
that was happening among thekids.
She was babysitting right, it'swhat is her.
(18:18):
Could she tap into her empathy,could she tap into?
We tend to be very good atreading between the lines,
picking up on nuances.
I think that most folks wouldbe surprised that there are
situations where they've beenable to shine, to contribute.
But by tapping into thatcontextual, those contextual
insights that they have.
(18:38):
And then if she says her dreamis to get a job as an associate
in a law firm where she can do Xin this type of department,
it's like then it's okay.
How do you, how do you takeyour positive core, yeah,
conduct your job search to.
Even when you're assessing jobs, you want to make sure that
(19:00):
you're going into an environmentthat's going to let you be who
you are, that's going to respectyour introversion, allow you to
have that alone time to work,balanced with collaboration in
all likelihood.
But that people, when someone'sinterviewing you and they're
talking to you about the workenvironment, you want to hear
that they're going to see youfor who you are and that's going
(19:21):
to make you into someone else,and that's very true for
introverts especially especially, what do you think about?
Cassandra (19:37):
let's get into the job or career, and you know
that's a skill, I'm calling askill an introvert.
You know that's who you are.
What do you think about sharingthat?
You know, maybe not during theinterview, or maybe you can, but
let them know in the beginninghow you, about you.
You know, like, like, forexample, you may, I.
Is it okay, you think, to say,you know, in meetings I may not
(20:01):
speak up because of this, this,this, but I will, and you know,
just kind of share with themmaybe your expectation and what
they're expecting of you, forthem, for them, give you the
opportunity to share what.
What's your Myers-Briggs?
Well, you can say, well, myMyers-Briggs says I'm an
introvert, but just to bringthat up, what do you think?
Stacey (20:24):
That is a fantastic question, and you've hit the
nail on the head in how you'vesuggested an answer, and so I
think of it as should youconfess your introversion, right
?
Do you want to tell people thatyou're introverted, right?
Here's where I currently standon that.
I think that introversion andintrovert are currently they're
still loaded words.
There are so manymisperceptions about what that
(20:46):
means, as we talked aboutearlier many misperceptions
about what that means, as wetalked about earlier.
It's not my recommendation thatcertainly not in a job interview
, but in the early stages, Iwouldn't necessarily announce to
people that you're an introvert.
However, I 100% agree with whatyou said, that you need to let
people know how it is youoperate, what's your operating
(21:08):
manual and how is it that youare going to do your best work.
And one of the things Irecommend to teams is that the
first time a group comestogether whether on a new team
that's formed or you're comingtogether on a new project is for
everyone to go around the tablewhether it's on Zoom or an
actual table in an office andshare with the group.
(21:29):
What do you want everyone elseto know about what you need to
succeed?
Okay, and that's important forintroverts or extroverts, and I
think as an introvert, you couldsay exactly what you just said
before, cassandra.
Right, you might notice I'm notalways going to speak up in a
meeting and come up with an ideaimmediately.
But, you know, I need some timeto think, to sit with it.
If I get, uh, it's reallyimportant for me to have an
(21:51):
agenda ahead of time so I canbegin to plan what I'm going to
say, pull together the data thatI need, um, it could be.
I need to sit with it andyou're going to get your best
ideas out of me.
If I can contribute in writing,that's another thing yeah, and
this is for introverts orextroverts, right?
It's so important to know whatyour colleagues need to be most
(22:14):
successful and how you cansupport them, whether it's folks
that you manage or peers.
Cassandra (22:19):
Right, right.
Is there any other way that youwould suggest how to mitigate
those barriers, like pushingpast those fears and those
doubts and insecurities, anyother thing?
Stacey (22:34):
Yeah, I'd say start small.
So many introverts, for example, are afraid to present, to
present before a big group.
Even though one of my favoritemyths that introverts are bad
presenters, we actually doreally well as presenters
because we are good at preparing, we are natural storytellers,
in part because many of us arevoracious readers, and we're
(22:58):
really good at doing ourresearch, pulling together data,
pulling together the facts, soto support our presentation.
So we're very good at it.
But some of us, many of us,still have some uneasiness.
So what I would suggest isstart small.
Find a small group to presentin front of, or present on a
topic that you know inside andout already, create a new
(23:20):
presentation for and so test thewaters.
Start small.
Find increasingly large forums.
Find subject areas that arethat push outside your comfort
zone a little bit, and the moreyou do it, the more comfortable
you'll get with it.
Cassandra (23:35):
Ok now did you say like, like.
In the beginning we were likewell, I'm an introvert, you're
like, I'm an introvert, like, soit's only two of us.
And he said, oh, just imaginehow many introverts they are.
Stacey (23:51):
Yeah, well, about half the world is introverted.
It really is 50.
But introverts aresignificantly underrepresented
in senior leadership incorporations.
Only two percent of seniorexecutives identify as
introverts, which is kind ofcrazy.
Wow.
And I think the other thing is,I think that people
underestimate how manyintroverts there are is kind of
(24:11):
crazy.
And I think the other thing is,I think that people
underestimate how manyintroverts there are in the
world because many introvertsand I used to be this way think
they have to pretend to beextroverted.
And so an introvert might say,oh, I need to go out to happy
hour again, or I need to stay atnetworking cocktail hour until
(24:31):
the end and meet as many peopleas possible, and someone might
see me doing that in the roomand they'll think, oh, wow, she
must be extroverted.
But meanwhile I am completelyexhausted.
Work the way an introvert wouldversus the way an introvert
should do.
It is pick a few people aheadof time, identify three people
(24:53):
ahead of time, read up on them,learn about them, find them in
the cocktail party room and havea conversation.
And it's going to be a lot moresuccessful for you to forge a
relationship that's likely tolead to something without
draining your energy.
Cassandra (25:10):
Right, that's very good, because I, you know, being
a mentor in corporate America,there were a lot of people that
says, you know, cassandra, Ireally don't feel like going out
with them.
You know we have to go todinner, we have to do this, and
I'm just not feeling that.
You know, and one of the thingsI used to say well, I call it,
(25:31):
I call it networking, I alsocall it politics.
Stacey (25:36):
So what I?
Cassandra (25:37):
said is that you know if, in fact, you are looking to
move up in the organization,that may be something you want
to do, because they don't evenknow you, you know.
So, just listening to you it'skind of like, hmm, maybe
individuals like that shouldresearch, like you indicated,
(25:58):
who will be at the dinner.
You know so that you can figureout, you know what to say, find
out they have kids, how thekids doing, or something you
know to prepare themselves.
Because there are quite a fewpeople that have confronted me.
This is I just don't want to doit.
I don't know how, but you'vegiven a few things that they
could do to prepare for thatmeeting.
Stacey (26:21):
And then I've seen people fight overseas like I
don't want to sit by him becausehe's going to you don't want to
sit next to the extrovertsbecause it's draining, right,
those are the tough it is.
It's both ways right.
On the one hand, it's moredraining.
On the other hand, I feel likeit takes the pressure off
because they're going to carrythe conversation, because that's
(26:42):
what energizes them.
Cassandra (26:44):
Yes, yes, and just to know that, and trying to get a
word in, and you know it's maybevery difficult, maybe don't try
so hard because then you're,you're, you deflate your, your
ability, your, your self-doubt.
Like I didn't hear what I said.
So once I listening to you, youunderstand what an introvert is
(27:05):
Number one.
It's not a bad word, doesn'tmean you're a bad person.
An introvert is number one.
It's not a bad word, it doesn'tmean you're a bad person.
Yeah, um, and I think you know,just knowing that, I think just
being aware is just so helpfuland always trying to think well,
why am I like that?
Just, I would suggest they takethe myers-briggs and I know
they have other tests out herenow um, that people could do to
(27:27):
find out what their personalitytraits are right, are they more?
Yeah, and I can, I can help.
Stacey (27:30):
There's the enneagram is another one that folks test out
here now that people could doto find out what their
personality traits are.
Right.
Are there more things?
Yeah, and I can help.
There's.
The Enneagram is another onethat folks use.
Strengthsfinder is another one.
I'm certified in Myers-Briggsand I'm happy I have an entry
level program.
If folks want to do theirMyers-Briggs and have an
introductory coaching session, Ioffer that.
It's not a big investment Forme.
(27:54):
It changed my life.
It was just.
I read my Myers-Briggs reportand it was like a window to my
soul, because it's not justabout your individual four
letters, but the combination ofthose four letters, the way they
interact, produces a reportthat's really nuanced in terms
of how you get your energy, howyou take in information, how you
make decisions, how you engagewith the world.
It's really fascinating.
Cassandra (28:16):
Let me ask you this is interesting.
Let's talk about relationshipshusband, wife, boyfriend,
girlfriend, partner, whatever.
One's an introvert and theother is an extrovert.
Any studies that you've founddoes that work, or is it a such
thing as work, or what do youthink about that?
Stacey (28:39):
My husband's an extrovert, I will say we have a
very strong and happy marriage.
I don't think there's a formulato it.
I think, like with anypersonality characteristic,
right, one spouse is neater, onespouse is messier, right, that
kind of thing.
I think you, the biggest thingis you learn about your
(29:00):
partner's strengths and how youcan benefit them, so to speak.
So let's say, when we travel,he's the one who will ask the
cab driver questions.
I just want to sit in the backseat and, you know, look out the
window and take it all in.
Right, so I benefit from hisextroversion in that way.
And there are other instancesas well.
We'll be out at a social event.
(29:21):
He's the one who'll take thelead on meeting new people,
which is really nice.
You know, and then you balanceright.
If, if, if one of your, if onepartner is extroverted and likes
to go out and be more socialand one likes to stay in, you
can um, you can compromise right, meet somewhere in the middle.
Or maybe there are times whereyour spouse, your partner,
(29:41):
socializes with their ownfriends without you, and you can
have your your own time at homerecharging, and you make it
work exactly okay, okay, becauseI'm certain that's that's two
introverts getting together.
Cassandra (29:54):
They'd be like, well, can we do something, you know?
Stacey (29:58):
So I it works too right.
You, you adapt and you learn.
You learn your partner'sstrengths and how they're wired,
and over time you come to ahappy medium how they're wired
and over time you come to ahappy medium.
Cassandra (30:15):
Um, okay, that that sounds good.
That sounds really good.
Um, so, we were talking aboutthere was a productive hacks for
an introvert.
Stacey (30:23):
Yes, what are those?
So I have a guide.
If you go to my website,ifactoringlifeshipcom, I have a
guide called Daily ProductivityHacks for Introverts, and the
idea is how do you achieve morewith less stress?
And I created this because mostworkplaces are designed with
extroverts in mind, meaning thatextroverts tend to be rewarded
(30:47):
for their work and they'reenergized by the way workplaces
are set up and days arestructured.
So, if you're in an onsite workuh, workplace, there are lots
of, there are open officelayouts, there are cubicles,
there are expectations to um, ifyou want to go to the fridge or
you want to get some water fromthe water cooler, you're
engaging with other people.
We typically have back-to-backmeetings, in-person
(31:10):
collaboration.
It's really draining forintroverts.
It's energizing for extroverts.
So I included a number ofstrategies that you can do to
set up your workday and yourworkspace so that you're not
drained in that way and you canbe more productive.
So I'll give you an example.
One of the things I recommendis something called task
(31:31):
batching, and task batchingmeans that you block times of
your day when you're going toengage in a certain type of work
, and a certain type of workcould be administrative, it
could be creative, it could bestrategic and focus on all the
tasks that fall into thatcategory for that period of time
, to the extent that you can,rather than switching back and
(31:53):
forth going betweenadministrative, creative,
strategic supervisory.
All these things, yes, when weintroverts, in particular, when
we switch between these types,it tends to drain us more, yes,
more energy.
So batching you can eliminatethat energy drain or at least
reduce it significantly.
Cassandra (32:14):
Wow, that's interesting because I remember
working in corporate and I wasresponsible for a lot of people.
Yeah, and man, did I getdrained?
And I was like, oh my gosh, youknow, and I had to work hard
but, listening to you, if Iwould have done certain things,
(32:34):
things would have been betterfor me and not even drain.
But you get to a point whereyou burn out, you know, and
you're not as effective or asproductive.
Stacey (32:46):
And you're not as effective or as productive.
Introvert burnout is a bigproblem.
It's a big issue and it leadsto we get psychological symptoms
, emotional symptoms, physicalsymptoms, and that's when our
energy drain over time.
Right In any given day, maybeyou'll be more drained than
energized, but if you have anenergy deficit consistently over
(33:06):
time, it leads to burnout,which has it can affect our
health and yeah, exactly, andthat that that was me, you know,
like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh,and then then some days, you
know, just depends on what'sgoing on.
Cassandra (33:22):
But I just think this discussion, this conversation,
is good for individuals that arestuck and thinking you know,
this is a job, isn't for me.
I understand why I'm like.
I am not that it's a bad thing,but just that awareness really
really helps a lot.
And I like the task batching.
(33:42):
I love that batching, I lovethat and that, even the
opportunity that you would coachsomebody a complimentary to see
.
Okay, because I think in manyinstances I don't know who gets
stuck the most.
I don't guess it matters, is itthe introvert or extrovert, or
depends on what it is that theywant to do, or, you know, yeah,
(34:04):
yeah.
So suppose somebody wants to dosomething different, but
they're stuck and moving intheir career.
Like you know, I'm done withthis people to get unstuck,
(34:24):
because a lot of times I thinkthat we are in a society that
we're not doing what it is thatI believe we are ordained to do.
You know, we're doing thisbecause we need the money.
We got a family and I get that,you know.
But how draining, howineffective that could be, how
(34:45):
how draining it could be justfor living, you know, because
life gets tough, you know noone's excluded from that.
What do you think or anythingyou can share with the listeners
to help them get unstuck withthese self-imposed barriers?
Stacey (35:02):
Yeah, well, I think reflecting on your peak
experiences, like we talkedabout earlier, is a good
stepping stone for that.
So think about maybe you're notin the type of job or the type
of or exact career you want tobe in, but I would guess that
whatever career you're in,whatever job you're in, you've
had some peak experiences.
So when in those roles, did youfeel great about your work?
(35:23):
Did you feel like you weremaking a difference?
Did you feel great about yourwork?
Did you feel like you weremaking a difference?
Did you feel like you had theopportunity to bring your, your
gifts to to bear so that peoplecould benefit from, from your
strengths and your passions andand your experiences?
And I think oftentimes, when youlook at those, you're going to
identify the type of work thatyou're that might make you a lot
(35:44):
happier.
So, for example, you're a greatproblem solver and you're that
might make you a lot happier.
So, for example, you're a greatproblem solver and you're
currently working in customerservice, which I don't think I'd
ever want to do service andit's not.
When you're looking at, you'relike this is not how I want to
be spending my life.
But hey, I felt really good theother day when I was able to
help a family when they had thisissue when they were traveling,
(36:07):
or I was able to help a familywhen they had this issue when
they were traveling, or I wasable to alleviate some conflict
that was going on on my team andthen to look for careers or
jobs that will let you do thaton a more regular basis.
So maybe you're really good atconnecting with people and
helping them solve problems.
Maybe a career in social workis right for you and you can
(36:28):
think about that.
So, to reflect on when have youfelt great about what you've
done, what you've contributed,and how can you find a job or
career that lets you do more ofthat?
Cassandra (36:38):
Right Now, when you this is my last question I'm
thinking about you being aleadership development coach.
You aren't always a leadershipdevelopment coach.
What inspired you to say I'mnot going to do this anymore.
I'm going to be a leadershipdevelopment coach?
What?
What was it that you've made upyour mind?
(37:00):
This is what you want to do.
Stacey (37:03):
I realized, um, so I went back to school and I got a
master's in organizationaldevelopment and leadership.
And when I finished the programand I looked back on it, I
realized that a common themeacross the program was leading
from a place of self-awareness.
And I realized, right and someaning that we need to know our
strengths, our shortcomings,know what your motivations are,
(37:26):
your goals, your passions.
That's when you're going to bethe most powerful I don't mean
powerful like dictatorial, butinfluential and satisfied and an
effective leader.
That's when you're going toreally reach your peak.
And I thought I spent so manyyears, decades, really thinking
that my introversion was ashortcoming and once I had that
(37:51):
self-awareness that it wasactually a gift, doors opened up
for me.
And when I finished thisprogram and I had that
realization, I decided I want tohelp other people who are
introverted come to thatrealization a whole lot sooner
than I did in my life who are?
introverted, come to thatrealization a whole lot sooner
than I did in my life, thatthey're not wasting years,
(38:13):
wasting decades lamenting thatthey're introverted, trying to
be something they're not, buttapping into their strengths so
that they can find theirhappiness, their true place in
life, their sweet spot, a wholelot sooner than I did.
Cassandra (38:24):
Wow, that's great.
Yeah, wow, great advice.
Tidbits, nuggets yeah.
How can my listeners get intouch with you?
Stacey (38:35):
They can find me at ifactorleadershipcom and if you
go there, there's a link toschedule a free 30 minute
introvert career strategy call.
They can also learn about Ihave an online program.
A lot of introverts like tolearn on their own, not with
other people, so I have anon-demand program called the
introverts leadership formulathat guides introverts to become
(38:58):
more powerful and confidentcommunicators to prevent burnout
, Like we talked about how doyou actually ask for a raise, a,
a promotion, a new job, in waysthat make it hard for someone
to say no and it's all rooted inyour strengths?
all of these things are how canyou tap into the best of who you
are as an introvert and allaround human, to uh, to be more
(39:22):
successful, get the recognitionthat you've earned and be
happier in your job and life?
Cassandra (39:28):
Oh, that's beautiful.
That's beautiful, the shownotes.
What was it that you want me tomake sure I put in the show
notes?
Stacey (39:35):
I'm going to give you a meeting playbook for introverts
and strategies to have yourvoice heard and your ideas shine
.
Okay, I will also give you wewere talking about networking
and conferences.
I have a conference survivalguide that has a number of
strategies folks can use whenyou're going to a conference,
when you're planning to network.
How can you do all these thingsin ways that are not going to
(39:59):
drain your energy and are goingto help you to make impactful
connections with people that youcan back home and and grow from
, and and and use in your work?
Cassandra (40:09):
Right and all that's on your website it is yeah,
those links to those downloadsare.
Stacey (40:16):
They're going to be added to my website shortly, so
I'll give you the direct links,okay.
Cassandra (40:20):
Perfect, perfect Cause.
I want to definitely make surethat that goes in the show notes
.
Well, you have definitelyblessed me with a lot of
information in regards to mypersonality and I am, and I'm
(40:41):
certain that many of ourlisteners as well, and I
encourage you listeners tore-listen to this podcast.
It was a lot of information.
To re-listen to this podcast,it was a lot of information and
if you know of someone that hasthis challenge or this
opportunity, share it with themthat you believe this will be in
their best best interest.
And Stacey again, I am soappreciative that you were a
guest on my podcast,particularly because it spoke to
(41:04):
me a whole lot and, and I guessI learned when I'm supposed to
learn.
You know, I I'm like I'm notgonna beat myself up because
that's how it was, but I lovewhat you said about your being
aware, awareness, leadership.
That's a powerful thing.
Once you can become aware, awhole lot can change.
Stacey (41:25):
Yep, yep, very powerful, critical first step.
This was such a pleasure,cassandra, to speak with you.
Thank you, thank you.
Cassandra (41:32):
And my listeners, as I always say.
Bye for now.
God bless and we will.
You'll see me soon.
Bye for now.
Good day out there to all of my listeners and I'd
like to welcome you to Is yourWay In your Way podcast, and I'm
your host.
My name is CassandraCrawley-Mayo, and, for those new
listeners out there that havenot ever heard this podcast, let
me just share with you whatit's about.
It's actually about it's forindividuals who are, what I say,
(00:21):
stuck Stuck because you knowthat it's something within
yourself that you should bedoing, such as maybe you want to
be an author, maybe you want tobe a coach, perhaps you want to
change jobs, you want to bepromoted, and you just have not
been able to take action to doso, and many times when that
happens, we have all theseself-imposed barriers that's
(00:44):
preventing us to do that.
So, whenever we talk aboutthese are some topics that we
talk about related to what I sayself-improvement, business
improvement, self-reflection.
This will enable you to maybeself-reflect on some things, and
I am always prayerful that it'ssomething said in one of my
(01:08):
podcasts with my special guests,that it'll be something for you
to like wow, it's like anepiphany.
I got it and you know what.
I'm going to take this stepforward and I'm so glad that I
had the opportunity to listen tothis podcast, and today I have
(01:28):
a special guest on, but let metell you what we're going to
talk about, though.
We're going to talk aboutbreaking down those self-imposed
barriers of introversion, andwe're going to talk about
introversion just in case you'renot clear on what that's all
about, and my special guest isStacey Chazen.
(01:49):
Hello, stacey, she's an iFactorleadership, that's her company.
Hello, how are you today?
Stacey (01:56):
Hello Cassandra.
It's great to be here.
I am doing well, thanks yeahit's great having you.
Cassandra (02:01):
This subject is so dear to my heart because that's
me, that has been me.
I was born that way, as hard asI try, but anyway, we're going
to get all into that and I'mhopeful, as I indicated earlier,
that something that's going tobe said to say, ah, that's me
and I can do whatever my mind isset to do regardless.
(02:25):
Okay, so first, what I'd liketo do is read Stacey's bio.
I like to read a little bitabout my guest so that you all
get a deeper understanding ofwhat she is about, not who she
is, but in other words, itqualifies her to kind of go talk
about what we're going to talkabout today.
So she is a dynamic leadershipdevelopment coach and a proud
(02:50):
introvert.
She is rewriting the narrativeon introversion.
Stacey underwent a remarkabletransformative transformation
after grappling with societalexpectations that favored
extroverts.
Instead of conforming tosocietal pressures, she embraced
(03:12):
her introversion qualities.
She turned them into powerfulassets that allowed her to
thrive both professionally andpersonally.
Now, as a fervent advocate forintroverts, she draws on her
extensive corporate andnonprofit experience.
She has a master's inorganizational development and
(03:34):
leadership and she's certifiedas a Myers-Briggs type indicator
practitioner that empowersintroverts, guiding them towards
self-acceptance, fulfillmentand success in the workplace.
And boy, this is a topic for metoo, guys, and I know it's for
you, because that societalpressure really put some
(03:56):
self-imposed barriers in my way,because I was what they called
quiet, but I always like to sayI was a quiet storm, but anyway,
let's see, I love that.
So, stacey, tell us a littlebit about your backstory before
you was working, before workingin corporate.
Stacey (04:17):
So my backstory, my backstory, related to how I had
this epiphany about myintroversion I can start with
that and a little bit about myjourney.
So I think my backstoryactually starts when I thought
about it, when I was inpreschool.
And I say that because whenwe're as young as two or three
years old and we begin tosocialize, we begin to be in
(04:38):
social environments, we start tohear messages from our
preschool teachers.
Let's say that being moresocial, having more friends,
wanting to play with other kidson the playground rather than
going off by yourself, all ofthose things were better than if
you actually did want to builda tower with blocks on your own,
or or read a book or do apuzzle by yourself.
(05:00):
And we hear messages as we'regoing through school Right,
collaborating is better, havingmore friends is better, going
out on more Saturday nights whenyou're in high school is
somehow better than if you'restaying home and watching a
movie or God forbid reading abook.
And we start to hear, eventhough we might not have
identified as being introverts,myself included, we get this
(05:22):
message that the way that we arewired and we like to be is
somehow not enough.
And I heard the same message incollege.
I started off when I firstgraduated from college.
I worked in public relations,which, as I look back now, it's
kind of a crazy career to gointo as an introvert.
I didn't have self-awareness andit wasn't for me.
(05:43):
I did not like picking up thephone and there was no email.
Back then it was very early inthe email days.
I didn't like the phone andpitching stories to people I
didn't know, and I eventuallywent back to school and started
working in the health policyspace after I got a master's in
public health and while thesubject matter was, it really
(06:05):
fueled me.
It was my passion.
I got the same discouragingmessages at work that I needed
to collaborate more with otherpeople, I needed to be more
social.
The way that I was and that Iengaged with other people was
somehow not enough.
And I had the great fortune ofhaving the opportunity to take a
(06:28):
Myers-Briggs type indicatorassessment which, for your
listeners who might not knowMyers-Briggs or MBTI, it's one
of the it's the world's mostcommonly used personality and
one of the dimensions it shareswith you is whether you are
introverted or extroverted.
And for your audience, whomight not be familiar with those
(06:49):
terms, when we're talking aboutintroverted versus extroverted,
what we reallyverts tend to befueled by time spent alone or
time spent with just one otherperson.
(07:09):
Having the opportunity to godeep in some subject matter
areas, to really sit with topicsand let them marinate and be
thoughtful.
That's what fuels us, whilepeople who are extroverted are
energized by engaging withothers, thinking out loud, you
know, doing the collaboration,all that stuff.
That's right.
So I took this MBTI assessment.
(07:33):
I said, oh, that's who I am,yeah, and it's it.
Didn't just tell me that's whoI am, but it.
It shed light for me on whatabout being an introvert
actually makes me pretty greatand all makes all introverts
great that we have these um,we're deep thinkers, we're
analytical, we're empathetic somany traits that I can talk a
little bit more about.
(07:54):
But I started going down thispath where I had a lot more
self-awareness of what made mestrong and I realized that a lot
of that was rooted in myintroversion.
Cassandra (08:14):
That's good.
I love this topic because I too, listeners, I am an introvert
and I was sharing with Stacey,before she came on, how it
really impacted the I say,self-inflicted barriers on
myself.
I didn't think I was goodenough, I didn't want to.
I felt if I said something, noone would listen to me.
And they didn't.
(08:34):
Actually, you know, someonespoke louder and said the same
thing I said, but differently,and they will listen to, you
know.
And if I spoke up, I'm like wow.
So I just, I just was like, andyou're.
And if I spoke up, I'm like wow.
So I just I just was like, andyou're right, I love the part
about the energy.
I don't get it.
Well, let me ask you this I canlike there are people that if I
(08:57):
share with them I'm anintrovert, they don't believe it
.
Yeah, I believe it.
Yeah, have you experienced that?
Experienced that?
Why?
Why don't they believe that,even though that's what we are?
Stacey (09:07):
they're like so shocked because people have a lot of
misperceptions about what itmeans to be introverted and and
so, for example, let me ask youthis question has anyone ever
said is part of the reasonthey're surprised because you're
a podcast host, right?
Do they say, yeah, you could be?
Cassandra (09:23):
doing that if you're introverted, exactly, exactly,
exactly, yeah.
And another thing, like if I'mat events, I may end up knowing
everybody.
Yeah, it's interesting knowingwho I need to know, but yet I'm
better one on one Right, andwhat you're describing is
introversion.
Stacey (09:40):
So a couple of things like one.
There are all these myths,right.
There are myths that introverts, that we don't like people,
that we don't like to work withpeople, that we don't like to
network, that we don't like togo to parties.
We can do, we can do all thesethings.
We just do them in our, in ourown introverted way, or we need
to do it in our, in anintroverted way, which means we
(10:07):
need to tap into our strengthswhen we do this, not trying to
do them the way that extrovertsdo.
And when you say that peopleare surprised, right.
You and I are having a one onone conversation right now.
Cassandra (10:15):
That is an introvert's sweet spot.
Stacey (10:18):
Yes, I love it.
It's not at all surprising.
I can't tell you how many mostof the podcasts that I've been
on.
Surprising I can't tell you howmany most of the podcasts that
I've been on the hosts have beenintroverted Really.
Yeah Well, of course thatexplains a little bit why
they're interested in me as aguest, but I think that they are
very it's very widespread.
Because you're not engaging,even though you have all these
(10:39):
listeners out, you know, in theairwaves.
As far as you're concernedyou're just looking at me, right
?
You're not having aconversation with um hundreds or
thousands of people wow, wow,so listen.
Cassandra (10:52):
So how do you change the narrative for those out
there that are introverted andfeeling like it's a bad thing,
or you know, because they'requiet and and they don't speak
up in meetings, like a greatexample is not speaking up, so
they don't think you're reallyqualified for the next position
or something you hit the nail onthe head and I'll give you for
(11:16):
the show notes.
Stacey (11:16):
I actually have a meeting playbook for introverts
with strategies to have your,your voice heard, your ideas
shine.
It's a free download.
I'll give you the link for that.
But the way I approach it withmy coaching clients and I have a
coaching practice through mybusiness which is called iFactor
Leadership, and I use aframework called appreciative
(11:38):
coaching, which essentiallymeans that we approach who you
are as an individual, as aleader, entirely through a
positive lens, and we start offby um.
I guide you to identify what'scalled your positive core, and
your positive core isessentially the best of who you
are.
Okay, and you can do that by andI'm going to share this with
(12:00):
your listeners because you don'tneed to work with a coach to do
this you can kind of dip yourtoes in it at home, and a way to
do that is to sit down with apen and paper or a computer, if
you like, to type instead andreflect on peak experiences in
your life, especially.
They could be at work, theycould be in your personal life,
and peak experiences are timeswhen you felt really great about
(12:22):
what you're doing yeah, youcontributed, that you made an
impact, that you were engagingwith others generally happy
moments and write these down,reflect on what they look like
and what your role was, and thenthink about what skills or
strengths did you bring to bear?
And when you look across theseexperiences, in all likelihood
(12:44):
you're going to see some commonstrengths and roles and gifts
emerge.
So, for example, one of my onepiece of my positive core and I
(13:05):
was most energized at timeswhere I had an opportunity to
write I wrote an issue brief, Iwrote a strategic plan or a
proposal.
You know what it looks like.
Writing is showing up in anumber of these experiences.
I bet that's part of my positivecore the best I am and you'll
start to see these strengthsthat show up over and over again
(13:29):
and you can begin to keep alist of those and then recognize
when you're havingopportunities to use them in
your work life, in your personallife, and not only when you're
given opportunities, but seekthem out, them out right.
If you find that you're astrong writer, if you identify
that you are highly empatheticand you're very good at helping
(13:51):
with conflict resolution allright opportunities to mediate
or to create a mentoring program, set up a peer-to-peer support
program, opportunities to letyou use that empathy, for
example, because you're great.
You just sometimes need to sitback and and reflect on the fact
(14:12):
that you've made all thesewonderful contributions and what
.
What set you up to do that.
Cassandra (14:17):
Wow, your evidence based coaching and framework is
empowering.
How is that?
Stacey (14:29):
It's empowering because it's entirely rooted in the
positive, so it starts off withidentifying your strengths.
What's great about you?
Right, you know I'm using thegeneric I.
I'm highly empathetic, I'm astrong writer, I am an
analytical thinker.
I am a analytical thinker, I ama great storyteller.
(14:51):
These are all typicalintroverted strengths.
As we take a look at those andsay, okay, what is your dream
future in some area?
Right, let's say, you want tobe a motivating team leader, or
you want, maybe you want to bethe CEO of your company.
Or maybe you want to be the CEOof your company, maybe you want
to be someone who is known as asafe and trusted space for
problem solving.
It could be anything, really.
(15:12):
And then what I do is I guideyou to create a plan, design a
plan that helps you use yourstrengths, use your positive
core, to get to that goal, toget to that dream, that dream
future that you've identifiedfor yourself.
So it's not about how do I fixsomething.
It's how do I build on what'sworking and the strengths and
(15:33):
gifts that I already have.
Cassandra (15:35):
OK, ok.
So let's say, for example, mylisteners, who are stuck and
there's certain things they wantto do, right, be a coach or
whatever, and they are can'tseem to move forward and maybe
(15:55):
because of those self-imposedbarriers why they're unable to
move forward.
And this is this could be forextroverts or introvert, but yet
for those who are introverted,you know, and let's say, while
they're in the process of that,somebody comes to them and says
(16:15):
I don't know if, if I give you agreat example, oh no, how could
she all this briefing?
She doesn't talk up, shedoesn't, she's not able to
express herself because she'skind of quiet.
(16:35):
Now, let's say you had a clientlike that, how would you help
them to overcome those naysayers?
Would would you say why don'tyou pivot and focus on your
positive?
Or how?
How could they overcome that?
Stacey (16:51):
Well, first of all I'd start with don't listen to the
naysayers.
Someone's saying that to you.
They're not in your corner,they're not helping you succeed.
So, I think that we need tounhook ourselves from the
opinions of others and I knowthat you're said than done but
not to base our validation inthe opinions of others.
(17:14):
So that's first and foremost.
Okay.
Look yourself from thatnegativity, from the oh.
How do I change that person'smind?
You know, unless that person isthe one you want to hire you,
you shouldn't have to care.
Okay, sure, you're not to care.
Okay.
And then, yeah, it's workingwith that person to identify if
she's looking for some moreconfidence because she has
(17:36):
internalized the fact that shethinks she's not a powerful
speaker or she's not good atbuilding a strong argument.
It's helping her.
I would start with what's yourpositive core?
Let's reflect on some time ormaybe you were in a club and
maybe you had a volunteeractivity, maybe you had a
(17:56):
part-time job before law schooland to think about ways in those
different situations that shewas able to find to show that.
And it could be.
I'll give you an example.
Like maybe she was a babysitterin high school or college and
she could find a time where shewas able to resolve conflict
that was happening among thekids.
She was babysitting right, it'swhat is her.
(18:18):
Could she tap into her empathy,could she tap into?
We tend to be very good atreading between the lines,
picking up on nuances.
I think that most folks wouldbe surprised that there are
situations where they've beenable to shine, to contribute.
But by tapping into thatcontextual, those contextual
insights that they have.
(18:38):
And then if she says her dreamis to get a job as an associate
in a law firm where she can do Xin this type of department,
it's like then it's okay.
How do you, how do you takeyour positive core, yeah,
conduct your job search to.
Even when you're assessing jobs, you want to make sure that
(19:00):
you're going into an environmentthat's going to let you be who
you are, that's going to respectyour introversion, allow you to
have that alone time to work,balanced with collaboration in
all likelihood.
But that people, when someone'sinterviewing you and they're
talking to you about the workenvironment, you want to hear
that they're going to see youfor who you are and that's going
(19:21):
to make you into someone else,and that's very true for
introverts especially especially, what do you think about?
Cassandra (19:37):
let's get into the job or career, and you know
that's a skill, I'm calling askill an introvert.
You know that's who you are.
What do you think about sharingthat?
You know, maybe not during theinterview, or maybe you can, but
let them know in the beginninghow you, about you.
You know, like, like, forexample, you may, I.
Is it okay, you think, to say,you know, in meetings I may not
(20:01):
speak up because of this, this,this, but I will, and you know,
just kind of share with themmaybe your expectation and what
they're expecting of you, forthem, for them, give you the
opportunity to share what.
What's your Myers-Briggs?
Well, you can say, well, myMyers-Briggs says I'm an
introvert, but just to bringthat up, what do you think?
Stacey (20:24):
That is a fantastic question, and you've hit the
nail on the head in how you'vesuggested an answer, and so I
think of it as should youconfess your introversion, right
?
Do you want to tell people thatyou're introverted, right?
Here's where I currently standon that.
I think that introversion andintrovert are currently they're
still loaded words.
There are so manymisperceptions about what that
(20:46):
means, as we talked aboutearlier many misperceptions
about what that means, as wetalked about earlier.
It's not my recommendation thatcertainly not in a job interview
, but in the early stages, Iwouldn't necessarily announce to
people that you're an introvert.
However, I 100% agree with whatyou said, that you need to let
people know how it is youoperate, what's your operating
(21:08):
manual and how is it that youare going to do your best work.
And one of the things Irecommend to teams is that the
first time a group comestogether whether on a new team
that's formed or you're comingtogether on a new project is for
everyone to go around the tablewhether it's on Zoom or an
actual table in an office andshare with the group.
(21:29):
What do you want everyone elseto know about what you need to
succeed?
Okay, and that's important forintroverts or extroverts, and I
think as an introvert, you couldsay exactly what you just said
before, cassandra.
Right, you might notice I'm notalways going to speak up in a
meeting and come up with an ideaimmediately.
But, you know, I need some timeto think, to sit with it.
If I get, uh, it's reallyimportant for me to have an
(21:51):
agenda ahead of time so I canbegin to plan what I'm going to
say, pull together the data thatI need, um, it could be.
I need to sit with it andyou're going to get your best
ideas out of me.
If I can contribute in writing,that's another thing yeah, and
this is for introverts orextroverts, right?
It's so important to know whatyour colleagues need to be most
(22:14):
successful and how you cansupport them, whether it's folks
that you manage or peers.
Cassandra (22:19):
Right, right.
Is there any other way that youwould suggest how to mitigate
those barriers, like pushingpast those fears and those
doubts and insecurities, anyother thing?
Stacey (22:34):
Yeah, I'd say start small.
So many introverts, for example, are afraid to present, to
present before a big group.
Even though one of my favoritemyths that introverts are bad
presenters, we actually doreally well as presenters
because we are good at preparing, we are natural storytellers,
in part because many of us arevoracious readers, and we're
(22:58):
really good at doing ourresearch, pulling together data,
pulling together the facts, soto support our presentation.
So we're very good at it.
But some of us, many of us,still have some uneasiness.
So what I would suggest isstart small.
Find a small group to presentin front of, or present on a
topic that you know inside andout already, create a new
(23:20):
presentation for and so test thewaters.
Start small.
Find increasingly large forums.
Find subject areas that arethat push outside your comfort
zone a little bit, and the moreyou do it, the more comfortable
you'll get with it.
Cassandra (23:35):
Ok now did you say like, like.
In the beginning we were likewell, I'm an introvert, you're
like, I'm an introvert, like, soit's only two of us.
And he said, oh, just imaginehow many introverts they are.
Stacey (23:51):
Yeah, well, about half the world is introverted.
It really is 50.
But introverts aresignificantly underrepresented
in senior leadership incorporations.
Only two percent of seniorexecutives identify as
introverts, which is kind ofcrazy.
Wow.
And I think the other thing is,I think that people
underestimate how manyintroverts there are is kind of
(24:11):
crazy.
And I think the other thing is,I think that people
underestimate how manyintroverts there are in the
world because many introvertsand I used to be this way think
they have to pretend to beextroverted.
And so an introvert might say,oh, I need to go out to happy
hour again, or I need to stay atnetworking cocktail hour until
(24:31):
the end and meet as many peopleas possible, and someone might
see me doing that in the roomand they'll think, oh, wow, she
must be extroverted.
But meanwhile I am completelyexhausted.
Work the way an introvert wouldversus the way an introvert
should do.
It is pick a few people aheadof time, identify three people
(24:53):
ahead of time, read up on them,learn about them, find them in
the cocktail party room and havea conversation.
And it's going to be a lot moresuccessful for you to forge a
relationship that's likely tolead to something without
draining your energy.
Cassandra (25:10):
Right, that's very good, because I, you know, being
a mentor in corporate America,there were a lot of people that
says, you know, cassandra, Ireally don't feel like going out
with them.
You know we have to go todinner, we have to do this, and
I'm just not feeling that.
You know, and one of the thingsI used to say well, I call it,
(25:31):
I call it networking, I alsocall it politics.
Stacey (25:36):
So what I?
Cassandra (25:37):
said is that you know if, in fact, you are looking to
move up in the organization,that may be something you want
to do, because they don't evenknow you, you know.
So, just listening to you it'skind of like, hmm, maybe
individuals like that shouldresearch, like you indicated,
(25:58):
who will be at the dinner.
You know so that you can figureout, you know what to say, find
out they have kids, how thekids doing, or something you
know to prepare themselves.
Because there are quite a fewpeople that have confronted me.
This is I just don't want to doit.
I don't know how, but you'vegiven a few things that they
could do to prepare for thatmeeting.
Stacey (26:21):
And then I've seen people fight overseas like I
don't want to sit by him becausehe's going to you don't want to
sit next to the extrovertsbecause it's draining, right,
those are the tough it is.
It's both ways right.
On the one hand, it's moredraining.
On the other hand, I feel likeit takes the pressure off
because they're going to carrythe conversation, because that's
(26:42):
what energizes them.
Cassandra (26:44):
Yes, yes, and just to know that, and trying to get a
word in, and you know it's maybevery difficult, maybe don't try
so hard because then you're,you're, you deflate your, your
ability, your, your self-doubt.
Like I didn't hear what I said.
So once I listening to you, youunderstand what an introvert is
(27:05):
Number one.
It's not a bad word, doesn'tmean you're a bad person.
An introvert is number one.
It's not a bad word, it doesn'tmean you're a bad person.
Yeah, um, and I think you know,just knowing that, I think just
being aware is just so helpfuland always trying to think well,
why am I like that?
Just, I would suggest they takethe myers-briggs and I know
they have other tests out herenow um, that people could do to
(27:27):
find out what their personalitytraits are right, are they more?
Yeah, and I can, I can help.
Stacey (27:30):
There's the enneagram is another one that folks test out
here now that people could doto find out what their
personality traits are.
Right.
Are there more things?
Yeah, and I can help.
There's.
The Enneagram is another onethat folks use.
Strengthsfinder is another one.
I'm certified in Myers-Briggsand I'm happy I have an entry
level program.
If folks want to do theirMyers-Briggs and have an
introductory coaching session, Ioffer that.
It's not a big investment Forme.
(27:54):
It changed my life.
It was just.
I read my Myers-Briggs reportand it was like a window to my
soul, because it's not justabout your individual four
letters, but the combination ofthose four letters, the way they
interact, produces a reportthat's really nuanced in terms
of how you get your energy, howyou take in information, how you
make decisions, how you engagewith the world.
It's really fascinating.
Cassandra (28:16):
Let me ask you this is interesting.
Let's talk about relationshipshusband, wife, boyfriend,
girlfriend, partner, whatever.
One's an introvert and theother is an extrovert.
Any studies that you've founddoes that work, or is it a such
thing as work, or what do youthink about that?
Stacey (28:39):
My husband's an extrovert, I will say we have a
very strong and happy marriage.
I don't think there's a formulato it.
I think, like with anypersonality characteristic,
right, one spouse is neater, onespouse is messier, right, that
kind of thing.
I think you, the biggest thingis you learn about your
(29:00):
partner's strengths and how youcan benefit them, so to speak.
So let's say, when we travel,he's the one who will ask the
cab driver questions.
I just want to sit in the backseat and, you know, look out the
window and take it all in.
Right, so I benefit from hisextroversion in that way.
And there are other instancesas well.
We'll be out at a social event.
(29:21):
He's the one who'll take thelead on meeting new people,
which is really nice.
You know, and then you balanceright.
If, if, if one of your, if onepartner is extroverted and likes
to go out and be more socialand one likes to stay in, you
can um, you can compromise right, meet somewhere in the middle.
Or maybe there are times whereyour spouse, your partner,
(29:41):
socializes with their ownfriends without you, and you can
have your your own time at homerecharging, and you make it
work exactly okay, okay, becauseI'm certain that's that's two
introverts getting together.
Cassandra (29:54):
They'd be like, well, can we do something, you know?
Stacey (29:58):
So I it works too right.
You, you adapt and you learn.
You learn your partner'sstrengths and how they're wired,
and over time you come to ahappy medium how they're wired
and over time you come to ahappy medium.
Cassandra (30:15):
Um, okay, that that sounds good.
That sounds really good.
Um, so, we were talking aboutthere was a productive hacks for
an introvert.
Stacey (30:23):
Yes, what are those?
So I have a guide.
If you go to my website,ifactoringlifeshipcom, I have a
guide called Daily ProductivityHacks for Introverts, and the
idea is how do you achieve morewith less stress?
And I created this because mostworkplaces are designed with
extroverts in mind, meaning thatextroverts tend to be rewarded
(30:47):
for their work and they'reenergized by the way workplaces
are set up and days arestructured.
So, if you're in an onsite workuh, workplace, there are lots
of, there are open officelayouts, there are cubicles,
there are expectations to um, ifyou want to go to the fridge or
you want to get some water fromthe water cooler, you're
engaging with other people.
We typically have back-to-backmeetings, in-person
(31:10):
collaboration.
It's really draining forintroverts.
It's energizing for extroverts.
So I included a number ofstrategies that you can do to
set up your workday and yourworkspace so that you're not
drained in that way and you canbe more productive.
So I'll give you an example.
One of the things I recommendis something called task
(31:31):
batching, and task batchingmeans that you block times of
your day when you're going toengage in a certain type of work
, and a certain type of workcould be administrative, it
could be creative, it could bestrategic and focus on all the
tasks that fall into thatcategory for that period of time
, to the extent that you can,rather than switching back and
(31:53):
forth going betweenadministrative, creative,
strategic supervisory.
All these things, yes, when weintroverts, in particular, when
we switch between these types,it tends to drain us more, yes,
more energy.
So batching you can eliminatethat energy drain or at least
reduce it significantly.
Cassandra (32:14):
Wow, that's interesting because I remember
working in corporate and I wasresponsible for a lot of people.
Yeah, and man, did I getdrained?
And I was like, oh my gosh, youknow, and I had to work hard
but, listening to you, if Iwould have done certain things,
(32:34):
things would have been betterfor me and not even drain.
But you get to a point whereyou burn out, you know, and
you're not as effective or asproductive.
Stacey (32:46):
And you're not as effective or as productive.
Introvert burnout is a bigproblem.
It's a big issue and it leadsto we get psychological symptoms
, emotional symptoms, physicalsymptoms, and that's when our
energy drain over time.
Right In any given day, maybeyou'll be more drained than
energized, but if you have anenergy deficit consistently over
(33:06):
time, it leads to burnout,which has it can affect our
health and yeah, exactly, andthat that that was me, you know,
like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh,and then then some days, you
know, just depends on what'sgoing on.
Cassandra (33:22):
But I just think this discussion, this conversation,
is good for individuals that arestuck and thinking you know,
this is a job, isn't for me.
I understand why I'm like.
I am not that it's a bad thing,but just that awareness really
really helps a lot.
And I like the task batching.
(33:42):
I love that batching, I lovethat and that, even the
opportunity that you would coachsomebody a complimentary to see
.
Okay, because I think in manyinstances I don't know who gets
stuck the most.
I don't guess it matters, is itthe introvert or extrovert, or
depends on what it is that theywant to do, or, you know, yeah,
(34:04):
yeah.
So suppose somebody wants to dosomething different, but
they're stuck and moving intheir career.
Like you know, I'm done withthis people to get unstuck,
(34:24):
because a lot of times I thinkthat we are in a society that
we're not doing what it is thatI believe we are ordained to do.
You know, we're doing thisbecause we need the money.
We got a family and I get that,you know.
But how draining, howineffective that could be, how
(34:45):
how draining it could be justfor living, you know, because
life gets tough, you know noone's excluded from that.
What do you think or anythingyou can share with the listeners
to help them get unstuck withthese self-imposed barriers?
Stacey (35:02):
Yeah, well, I think reflecting on your peak
experiences, like we talkedabout earlier, is a good
stepping stone for that.
So think about maybe you're notin the type of job or the type
of or exact career you want tobe in, but I would guess that
whatever career you're in,whatever job you're in, you've
had some peak experiences.
So when in those roles, did youfeel great about your work?
(35:23):
Did you feel like you weremaking a difference?
Did you feel great about yourwork?
Did you feel like you weremaking a difference?
Did you feel like you had theopportunity to bring your, your
gifts to to bear so that peoplecould benefit from, from your
strengths and your passions andand your experiences?
And I think oftentimes, when youlook at those, you're going to
identify the type of work thatyou're that might make you a lot
(35:44):
happier.
So, for example, you're a greatproblem solver and you're that
might make you a lot happier.
So, for example, you're a greatproblem solver and you're
currently working in customerservice, which I don't think I'd
ever want to do service andit's not.
When you're looking at, you'relike this is not how I want to
be spending my life.
But hey, I felt really good theother day when I was able to
help a family when they had thisissue when they were traveling,
(36:07):
or I was able to help a familywhen they had this issue when
they were traveling, or I wasable to alleviate some conflict
that was going on on my team andthen to look for careers or
jobs that will let you do thaton a more regular basis.
So maybe you're really good atconnecting with people and
helping them solve problems.
Maybe a career in social workis right for you and you can
(36:28):
think about that.
So, to reflect on when have youfelt great about what you've
done, what you've contributed,and how can you find a job or
career that lets you do more ofthat?
Cassandra (36:38):
Right Now, when you this is my last question I'm
thinking about you being aleadership development coach.
You aren't always a leadershipdevelopment coach.
What inspired you to say I'mnot going to do this anymore.
I'm going to be a leadershipdevelopment coach?
What?
What was it that you've made upyour mind?
(37:00):
This is what you want to do.
Stacey (37:03):
I realized, um, so I went back to school and I got a
master's in organizationaldevelopment and leadership.
And when I finished the programand I looked back on it, I
realized that a common themeacross the program was leading
from a place of self-awareness.
And I realized, right and someaning that we need to know our
strengths, our shortcomings,know what your motivations are,
(37:26):
your goals, your passions.
That's when you're going to bethe most powerful I don't mean
powerful like dictatorial, butinfluential and satisfied and an
effective leader.
That's when you're going toreally reach your peak.
And I thought I spent so manyyears, decades, really thinking
that my introversion was ashortcoming and once I had that
(37:51):
self-awareness that it wasactually a gift, doors opened up
for me.
And when I finished thisprogram and I had that
realization, I decided I want tohelp other people who are
introverted come to thatrealization a whole lot sooner
than I did in my life who are?
introverted, come to thatrealization a whole lot sooner
than I did in my life, thatthey're not wasting years,
(38:13):
wasting decades lamenting thatthey're introverted, trying to
be something they're not, buttapping into their strengths so
that they can find theirhappiness, their true place in
life, their sweet spot, a wholelot sooner than I did.
Cassandra (38:24):
Wow, that's great.
Yeah, wow, great advice.
Tidbits, nuggets yeah.
How can my listeners get intouch with you?
Stacey (38:35):
They can find me at ifactorleadershipcom and if you
go there, there's a link toschedule a free 30 minute
introvert career strategy call.
They can also learn about Ihave an online program.
A lot of introverts like tolearn on their own, not with
other people, so I have anon-demand program called the
introverts leadership formulathat guides introverts to become
(38:58):
more powerful and confidentcommunicators to prevent burnout
, Like we talked about how doyou actually ask for a raise, a,
a promotion, a new job, in waysthat make it hard for someone
to say no and it's all rooted inyour strengths?
all of these things are how canyou tap into the best of who you
are as an introvert and allaround human, to uh, to be more
(39:22):
successful, get the recognitionthat you've earned and be
happier in your job and life?
Cassandra (39:28):
Oh, that's beautiful.
That's beautiful, the shownotes.
What was it that you want me tomake sure I put in the show
notes?
Stacey (39:35):
I'm going to give you a meeting playbook for introverts
and strategies to have yourvoice heard and your ideas shine
.
Okay, I will also give you wewere talking about networking
and conferences.
I have a conference survivalguide that has a number of
strategies folks can use whenyou're going to a conference,
when you're planning to network.
How can you do all these thingsin ways that are not going to
(39:59):
drain your energy and are goingto help you to make impactful
connections with people that youcan back home and and grow from
, and and and use in your work?
Cassandra (40:09):
Right and all that's on your website it is yeah,
those links to those downloadsare.
Stacey (40:16):
They're going to be added to my website shortly, so
I'll give you the direct links,okay.
Cassandra (40:20):
Perfect, perfect Cause.
I want to definitely make surethat that goes in the show notes
.
Well, you have definitelyblessed me with a lot of
information in regards to mypersonality and I am, and I'm
(40:41):
certain that many of ourlisteners as well, and I
encourage you listeners tore-listen to this podcast.
It was a lot of information.
To re-listen to this podcast,it was a lot of information and
if you know of someone that hasthis challenge or this
opportunity, share it with themthat you believe this will be in
their best best interest.
And Stacey again, I am soappreciative that you were a
guest on my podcast,particularly because it spoke to
(41:04):
me a whole lot and, and I guessI learned when I'm supposed to
learn.
You know, I I'm like I'm notgonna beat myself up because
that's how it was, but I lovewhat you said about your being
aware, awareness, leadership.
That's a powerful thing.
Once you can become aware, awhole lot can change.
Stacey (41:25):
Yep, yep, very powerful, critical first step.
This was such a pleasure,cassandra, to speak with you.
Thank you, thank you.
Cassandra (41:32):
And my listeners, as I always say.
Bye for now.
God bless and we will.
You'll see me soon.
Bye for now.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.