August 7, 2025 • 48 mins
Many women encounter emotional gaps in relationships, not because their partners don't care, but because societal norms have taught men to suppress vulnerability. This episode offers deeper insight into how both men and women can break generational cycles and improve connection.
• Therapist Kristal DeSantis shares her journey from relationship novice to marriage expert
• Understanding attachment styles and relational trauma is crucial for healthy partnerships
• Men and women should approach relationships as "cross-cultural" due to different socialization
• The STRONG model provides six pillars for relationship success: Safety, Trust, Respect, Openness, Nurturing, Generosity
• Modern men face unique challenges as women's expectations have changed, while traditional male scripts remain the same
• Spontaneous vs. responsive desire explains many sexual compatibility issues
• Relationships require intentionality and proactive maintenance, not just crisis intervention
• Technology often erodes relationships by preventing true presence between partners
• Kristal's book "STRONG: A Relationship Field Guide for the Modern Man" offers guidance for men seeking relationship skills
Check out Kristal's book STRONG: A Relationship Field Guide for the Modern Man, follow her on Instagram @ATXTherapist, or visit her website at stronglove.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cassandra (00:00):
out there to all of my listeners and I'd like to
welcome you to Is your Way Inyour Way podcast and I'm your
host.
My name is CassandraCrawley-Mayo and, for those new
listeners out there, let me justshare a little bit about this
podcast.
Today is going to be adifferent twist.
You know I am all aboutgrounded and empowering women to
(00:22):
understand the internalbarriers that's preventing them
from living their best life ontheir terms.
But I'd like us to talk about adifferent topic that they're
still about empowering, but it'sactually about empowering you
guys to understand the internalI say the internal battles men
(00:43):
face is crucial to achieving aholistic personal growth.
Many women encounter emotionalgaps in their relationships not
because their partner doesn'tcare, but because societal norms
have taught men to suppressvulnerability by exploring the
mental health and relationalchallenges that men face.
(01:06):
This episode offers deeperinsight into how both men and
women can break generationalcycles, improve connection and
stop being in their own wayindividually and together.
And I have a special guest ontoday and we were talking.
She's in the orange room and wewere talking before I sent her
(01:29):
back to the orange room that youknow a lot of times our
relationship can be verydistracting and it can prevent
us from living our best lifebecause we can be so fixated on
that relationship, fixated onour marriages, fixated on being
single and you want a man, justsimply fixate it, ok.
(01:49):
So we want to help you to getunstuck with this so that we can
move on with our best life onour terms.
So, I am going to introduce youto Kristal DeSantis.
Hi, Kristal.
Kristal (02:02):
Hi, cassandra, thanks for having me.
Cassandra (02:08):
Yes and welcome to, is your Way, in your Way, and
what I'd like to do is I want toread your bio to the listeners
so they will get understand, orhave a better point of reference
, why you are an expert in thisfield.
So, Kristal DeSantis is alicensed marriage and family
therapist.
She's an author, a creator ofthe Strong Model of Relationship
(02:32):
Therapy.
She's based in Austin, Texas,and she specializes in
trauma-informed andattachment-based therapy,
particularly for first respondercouples and men navigating
emotional challenges in today'sworld.
Her book, strong a relationshipfield guide for the modern man,
(02:54):
offers men practical strategiesto foster healthier, more
connected relationships, and sheis a passionate advocate for
men's mental health andrecognized voice in
international and nationalplatforms like Newsweek,
huffington Post and the Good MenProject.
(03:16):
So here we go, empoweringcouples to forge connections
that withstand the test of time.
Wow, guys, check this out.
This is amazing to me Becauseyou know, when we talk about
relationships, we're just like,oh yeah, let me hear about that.
And to have an expert on thepodcast today, I'm just super
(03:36):
excited about this.
So, Kristal, first question foryou, I am curious, and when I'm
curious, so is my audience.
For you, I am curious, and whenI'm curious.
So is my audience.
I'd like to know yourbackground or your backstory
that triggered your curiosityabout relationships.
Kristal (03:54):
Yeah, so I grew up with a very traditional family.
So my dad was a full-timeworker, dad was a full-time
worker and my mom was afull-time stay-at-home mom.
So I grew up in this kind ofvery traditional kind of
gendered script of whatrelationships, what marriages,
(04:14):
look like.
And you know, I was growing upand I'm one of six girls in my
family- oh, wow.
And yeah.
So it was great, it was fun.
But one thing I kind ofrealized is that, you know, I
didn't really see necessarilythe path that my mom took as the
(04:37):
path for me.
My younger sister, she really,you know, she really kind of saw
herself in that path and shegot married quite young and but
I really, just I thought I waslike, well, you know, I've put
in my time changing all mylittle.
You know my, as the oldestdaughter, I'm like I've got all
(04:59):
the under siblings, I've donethe diaper thing, I've done the
bottle thing.
I've, you know, as many of yourfemale listeners can identify
with this, right, it's like, asthe oldest daughter, you do get
a lot of responsibility.
And so what I really wanted wasto, you know, explore my career
, do something else.
So, long story short, what endedup happening is I just didn't
(05:20):
really date, I didn't have timefor it.
You know, I was, you know, justdoing all the sports and those.
You know all of that.
But then my younger sister gotmarried and so when my younger
sister got married, it reallykind of highlighted that, oh
gosh, I didn't have anyrelationship experience, I
didn't know anything aboutanything when it came to dating
(05:41):
and growing up with all girls.
I didn't really know anythingabout boys, except you know
they're over there.
So I ended up dating and it wasterrible.
So I was like, wow, I don'tknow how to do this at all.
So I ended up, going to therapy, met with a marriage and family
therapist and I was fascinatedbecause I was like, oh, I didn't
(06:02):
even know you could learn howto do this.
I thought it was just you know,some people are born with the
gene of like, they want tosettle down, they want to get
married, they want to havebabies, and some people just
they don't.
God skipped them in the lineupand so when I realized it was a
skill that I could learn, I just, you know, started learning
(06:23):
myself going to therapy, andthen I started going to school
to become a therapist.
And then here I am.
Cassandra (06:29):
Wow, that is so fascinating because I didn't
think dating and relationshiptook a skill.
But you know, based on you knowwhat I've gone through in my
relationships and I'm sure manyof the listeners like, well, you
know what, I should have gonetherapy before I even started
dating so that I can acquirethis skill Like Kristal was
talking about.
So now I'm going to find outwhat I could do differently now.
(06:51):
That's going to help me.
But one thing before we moveforward you talked about the
path your mom went through.
What was that path?
What was that path?
Kristal (07:02):
What was that?
So she I mean basically shenever really had her own career.
When she was young, you know,she knew she wanted to get
married.
She was engaged and then, youknow, just got married and
started having kids and she wasa stay-at-home mom and you know
(07:23):
that was her life and she was afantastic mom, ihome mom and, um
, you know that was that was herlife and she was a fantastic
mom.
I mean, literally she is thebest mom you could ever ask for.
But and again, like my dad isalso, he was a great parent to
me, but he was not a goodhusband to her, and so I saw
that she was, you know, verydedicated a mother.
She was very dedicated as awife and she did not have a
(07:46):
partner who was matching thatenergy.
Cassandra (07:50):
Wow, that's.
That's interesting and awell-known story, I'm sure, that
type of behavior so tell usabout.
Well, let me say, do you mindsharing what your journey to
love was like?
Kristal (08:10):
Yeah, that was uh.
So I guess that after my, aftermy younger sister got married,
it kind of highlighted that asthe oldest daughter, I was not
dating, um, and also my mom isAsian, and so there in the Asian
culture it's like you do kindof you know, start in order when
you do get married.
And so it kind of highlightedlike okay, well, what's going on
(08:33):
with her?
Like why is she not?
So I was like fine, I guessI'll date.
And so literally the next time Iwent out and there was a guy
that was attractive and asked meout, I was like okay, because
usually before that I would justkind of have a standard line
like oh, I don't date.
Like you know, we could befriends, but I'm kind of
pursuing this or pursuing thatDating is not really on my radar
(08:54):
.
And so I dated this guy and itwas just like I was like what is
the point of this?
Like I don't, we're both, youknow, like I'm attracted to him,
he's attracted to me.
But like what are we doing?
Like yeah, and so that itdidn't last very long it lasted
a couple of months because I waslike I just don't understand
(09:15):
how to do this.
Like what is what is happeninghere, and maybe partially
because, you know, I was soambitious in other areas of my
life, I was like just to kind oflike hang around with a guy
just because, yeah, I have malefriends, like I could do that
with anybody.
Why, why, why this?
(09:35):
So I didn't date after that.
For a while, after breaking upwith him, I was like I just
don't, I just don't get it, likeuntil I'm ready to get married,
what's the point?
Yeah, I came up with him.
I was like I just don't, I justdon't get it, like until I'm
ready to get married, what's thepoint?
But then I did end up, you know, when online dating came out
and so one of my friends shemade a profile for me and I
(09:56):
ended up matching with myhusband on the dating app and I
met him and I was like, oh mygosh, I really like this guy.
This actually might be the one,but once again.
I was like oh my gosh, I reallylike this guy.
This actually might be the one,but once again I was like but I
don't have any relationshipskills Like what do I do?
And so that's when I went totherapy and that's when I
(10:21):
started working through myattachment stuff.
I started working with my fearof ending up like my mom or
being in that kind of situation.
You know, I didn't even realizelike I had underlying trust
issues when it came torelationships.
And so really working throughall of that, and that is what
then?
My story of love was.
I really wanted to.
You know, I matched with myhusband.
(10:41):
I wanted to keep him, but Ididn't know how.
I matched with my husband.
I wanted to keep him, but Ididn't know how.
And now, gosh, we've beentogether now 15 years.
Cassandra (10:55):
Wow, oh my gosh, that's incredible, what a great
story you talked about.
So before you got married, youwent to a therapist, correct?
And then during that time, isthat when you started your
practice, or?
Kristal (11:10):
No, no, I've.
I've been a therapist since2014.
So so I went to therapy firstfor a couple of years, and then
I realized like, oh gosh, thisis something you could learn,
this is something you could do.
So then I went to you know,gosh, this is something you
could learn, this is somethingyou could do.
Then I went to grad school fora couple of years and then
started.
I graduated in 2014.
Cassandra (11:33):
OK, ok, ok, all right , I am really interested in what
you learned and what mylisteners could learn.
What skills do you believe we,as women, should have?
And also, there is a perceptionof masculinity Like what is a
(11:54):
man like?
What should we think, whatshould they be like?
And when they're not like whatwe expect, then it's like nope,
absolutely.
Can you tell us a's like nope,absolutely.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Kristal (12:08):
Absolutely, and I'm happy to share my own story.
And then what I use in mypractice is understanding your
attachment style and thenunderstanding any relational
trauma that you've experienced.
These two things right.
So for me, going into therapymyself and kind of unpacking
(12:30):
what my fear of marriage, whatmy fear of you know, ending up
kind of like my mom or being ina situation with a man who was
not faithful to me.
You know that was all attachment, injuries and trauma from
seeing what I saw with myparents and I didn't even
realize how much it had affectedme, right.
(12:52):
So I was really mistrustful ofmen.
Um, you know, as probably a lotof women are right, if you grow
up and you know also my husband, he is kind of the opposite of
me.
He grew up with five brothersand I grew up with six sisters
and then he was in the MarineCorps and so he's also this very
like masculine and I, you know,I went to an all women's
(13:16):
college, so we could.
You know, we're kind of like across-cultural couple as well.
You know my parents werecross-cultural and sometimes
that worked really well for them.
You know of all the things thatdidn't work in their
relationship.
That was something that I didsee my dad really make an effort
to understand my mom's culture,and so that was something.
(13:40):
And so those kind of three corethings are.
What I use in my practice ishelping people understand
attachment, helping peopleunderstand the impact of trauma
and it could be, you know,vicarious trauma, right, it
doesn't necessarily mean ithappened to them, it could be
watching their mom get cheatedon, or you know all of that,
right.
(14:00):
And then also understandingthat you know men and women are
socialized very differently andthen ending up in a relationship
together, approaching it almostlike a cross-cultural couple
yeah, it's going to set you upfor greater success than
assuming that men think likewomen or women.
You know, because it's just not, it's not the same at all.
(14:24):
Because it's just not, it's notthe same at all.
You know, even when I was incollege, like I said, I went to
an all-women's college and wewould go socialize, you know,
with the frats and with you knowthe boys and I just remember
thinking like okay, you look ata sorority house and it's
beautiful and it smells nice,and all the girls are like they
take pride in it.
(14:50):
And then you go to a frat houseand you're like don't touch
anything, like yeah, you know,the floors are sticky, there's
mold in the fridge, and I waslike how are these people
supposed to end up together,like how are they supposed to
co-create an environment thatfeels good if this is the
standard that is acceptable,right?
Um, so all of those thingsagain just really is kind of
core in the work that I learned,you know, going to therapy
myself through my ownexperiences, and then also what
(15:12):
I teach couples now is like yougot to understand.
you know what your attachmentstyle is.
You got to understand howtrauma has impacted you and you
got to recognize that if you'rein a heterosexual relationship,
you are in a cross-culturalrelationship.
Cassandra (15:27):
Okay, okay.
So in your bio you stated youspecialize in trauma-informed
therapy, particularly firstresponder couples and men
navigating emotional challengesin today's world.
Now what is okay andspecialized in trauma?
Kristal (15:59):
is that the attachment, what is specializing trauma?
So I am trained in EMDR, whichis a specific type of therapy
that is used specifically forPTSD.
Yeah, okay, yeah.
So I got trained in thatthrough the police department
because I wanted to work withofficers and also with veterans,
because EMDR is a very, veryeffective tool for working
(16:20):
through trauma.
But it can also be used forpeople with complex PTSD, right,
and so that might not be like Iwas in a car accident or I was
in a war.
It can be also used with like Iwas, you know, maybe exposed
different things as a child or Ihad this really traumatic
experience in my pastrelationship.
(16:40):
So that's what I use primarily,okay, as my trauma-informed
modality, but also just ingeneral trauma-informed approach
.
It kind of recognizes that youknow your mind and your body are
connected, Because I see thiswith a lot of really
high-intelligent andhigh-functioning women is
they're like I know up heresomething, something, but I
(17:04):
don't feel it in here, if thatmakes sense, right.
So there might be saying like Iknow this partner didn't cheat
on me, but I just have thissense in here that men are not
to be trusted, right.
And so the trauma-informed workis saying you know, let's
listen to the story that yourbody is holding and let's, let's
(17:26):
make room for that and processit and let's so.
It's kind of what's called inthe therapy world like a bottom
up approach rather than a topdown approach, cause the top
down approach is like hey,change your thoughts, you change
your life and cognitive, andit's like sometimes that works
but not always.
If there's a story of trauma,it's stored in your body but not
always.
Cassandra (17:46):
If there's a story of trauma, it's stored in your
body.
Kristal (17:54):
So do you believe most men and women experience some
type of trauma?
No, it's pretty common.
I would say that you know.
As a therapist and as asupervisor and as a trainer for
other therapists, I alwaysencourage therapists to have an
understanding of attachment andtrauma because you know, most
likely you will have a clientthat will have had some form of
(18:15):
trauma.
Because, you know the world isI mean, it's not always a safe
place.
Cassandra (18:21):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So tell us about when you talkabout what are the unique
challenges faced by men intoday's society.
Kristal (18:33):
Yeah, the unique challenges faced by men is that
the script has changed or theneeds of women have changed but
the script has not, but thescript has not.
And so you know, for generationsand this is kind of the preface
of my book right Forgenerations, men have been
taught that their value is inbeing a protector, a provider
(18:57):
and a procreator right.
So if you could protect yourwoman, if you could give her
food you know, bring home thebacon and if you could give her
babies, you were a top-notch guy.
All the moms wanted you fortheir daughters, like they were
fighting for you.
And now that's not exactly whata modern woman wants.
(19:17):
She's like I have my own job, Imean like I want you to have a
job, but you don't need toprovide for me, necessarily.
And then protection.
I don't want you getting infights with every guy in the
neighborhood, like that's notattractive to me, maybe.
I want some emotionalprotection, right.
And then procreation same thing, like I don't want you to just
(19:39):
give me a baby.
I want you to be an equalparent with me, right.
And yet there aren't scriptsfor that for men.
I not yet right.
And so we're still in thisreally transitional period where
what women want is differentfrom what men are being taught
is valuable yeah, yeah, yeah andI'm seeing a lot of men have
(20:03):
this mismatch of like.
I was raised to believe that yougetting a good job and being
physically fit and then makingsure that I you know I can do
this, why aren't I finding awoman that wants to match with
me?
It's like well, if you don'thave any emotional skills, if
you don't have any, you knowconversational skills, if you
(20:23):
cannot handle conflict, well, itdoesn't matter how much money
you make, she doesn't want you.
Cassandra (20:29):
Right, and that's kind of why you hear you know,
when there's friction in therelationship, I call it an
intense fellowship.
It's like you indicated I feedyou, I give you whatever you
want, I have this money, butthat's not what they are Women
are looking for.
They think that's enough.
(20:50):
So, Kristal, what happens, youknow?
Because society has changed andeven individuals that get
married Do you believe they can?
You heard the saying thisrelationship no longer works for
me because one of them havegrown in this way and the other
(21:12):
one's still stagnant.
Is that happening a?
Kristal (21:16):
lot today.
It does happen a lot Because,again, you know, I don't think
we have intentionalconversations about
relationships.
There is kind of this myth thatyou fall in love and then love
magically makes everythinghappen.
You find somebody you'reattracted to, there's chemistry,
and then happily ever after andit's like absolutely not.
(21:39):
Relationships take a lot ofskill, a lot of intentionality,
a lot of communication, a lot ofconflict management and
unfortunately we really don'tset people up for success, like
we don't teach those skills inschool.
And I do see a lot of couples Imean, thankfully I'm seeing a
(22:00):
lot more couples now that arecoming in early.
I'm seeing couples now that arein the dating phase, that are
in the premarital phase, becausethey recognize like love is
just not enough.
It's not when people say right,like what is that?
Cassandra (22:27):
You know, when you hear that, yeah, I'm not sure
what that is.
Kristal (22:34):
Sometimes you know it's one of two things.
So I talk about in my book thedifference between
function-based relationships andconnection-based relationships.
Right.
So there are relationships thatare based relationships right.
So there are relationships thatare based on function, right,
and that can kind of look likealmost transactional.
Yes, yeah, where you pick apartner not necessarily because
(22:57):
you deeply connect with them butbecause they have something
that you want.
All right, oh, they're a doctor, I want to marry a doctor,
right?
there you know they right, umand yeah.
And those relationships arefragile because when the
function ends, let's say theycome home one day and they're
like I decided I quit.
I don't want to be a doctoranymore, I'm going to be an
artist yes, that's max.
Cassandra (23:19):
All my my listeners know about max.
Kristal (23:22):
I'm so sorry well, when the relationships are based on
function, they're fragile right,because the relationship ends
when the function ends.
Cassandra (23:37):
He's having some type of trauma.
Kristal (23:39):
right now I'm not quite sure what it is, his attachment
figureheads, right, okay.
And then the other kind ofrelationship is connection-based
relationships, and those arethe ones that are deep, they're
soulful, they're fulfilling, butthey do take a lot of work and,
unfortunately, what ends uphappening sometimes is people
(24:01):
that had a strong connection inthe beginning right, let's say
they met in college, yeah,relied deeply intellectual, they
stayed up all night, or theywere deeply spiritual, or they
had a great chemistry.
But then what happens is thatwe, they put the relationship on
autopilot and the next thing,you know, they end up only
operating on a function level.
Right, so let's say kids come,let's say careers happen, and
(24:24):
next thing, you know, they justend up talking about logistics
all the time.
And then this is very common.
Then you see them in their 40sand they're like I don't have
any deep connection to mypartner, I just talk to them
about logistics.
What are the kids doing?
What time are you going to behome?
What should we eat for dinner?
What are your parents doing?
And that's where it stopsfeeling fulfilling and that's
(24:46):
where people start feeling likeI don't think we want the same
things, I think that we've grownapart, when, unfortunately and
sometimes they have right.
Sometimes one person is like oh, this is great, I don't want to
have any more deep connections,I just want to focus on
function, function, performance,performance, right, um.
But then the other person islike I missed the connection, I
(25:07):
want it back.
And so that's often where I seepeople in my office saying can
we get it back and, if so, whatkind of work will that take?
And unfortunately, sometimespeople come in and it's too
little, too late.
Cassandra (25:20):
Yeah, exactly, Exactly so.
The fundamentals for you of ahealthy relationship is it
connection?
Is it anything else Like?
What are the fundamentals of ahealthy relationship?
Kristal (25:36):
That's the fundamentals , so strong.
So that's the title of my book,but it's also the six pillars
of a healthy relationship.
Cassandra (25:45):
Okay.
Kristal (25:46):
So the first thing is safety.
All healthy relationships aresafe.
Okay, that means you can expressyourself freely.
You can have conflict, that youknow you can disagree, but it
still feels safe and you feelsafe in your shared goals.
You don't have to question doesthis person want the same
things I do?
(26:06):
You feel safe in we have ashared vision.
Because then T is trusttrustworthiness right Again, the
next pillar of a healthyrelationship.
But you cannot trust somebodyyou don't feel safe with.
You're going to always secondguess somebody you don't feel
safe with.
So safety is the foundation andthen we go trust.
(26:28):
And then the R is respect.
Every healthy relationshiprespects differences, respects
boundaries, and that'senvironment of mutual respect.
Right.
Whether one person is astay-at-home parent or the
working parent, these peoplerespect what they each bring to
the relationship.
(26:49):
And then O is openness opencommunication, openness about
the stages of growth, right theperson that you meet when you're
25 is not going to be the sameperson at 55.
And being open to you know whatdo we need to do to support our
best selves.
And then N is nurturing thatright, nurturing the connection
(27:10):
between the two of you, notletting it fade into oblivion,
saying what do we need to do tobe our best selves and how can
we support each other in makingsure that we don't feel like
we're settling being in thisrelationship.
It's like the power couple.
The power couple is the goalright, but I need to nurture you
and I need to feel nurtured byyou Right, and that's on both
(27:32):
ends, both sides, absolutely.
And then the G is generosity,which is that little extra of
you know what.
What can I do to make mypartner's day a little bit
better?
How can I go out of my way?
But again, you don't want to begenerous with someone you don't
trust.
You don't want to be generouswith somebody you don't respect.
(27:55):
You don't want to nurturesomebody you don't feel safe
with.
So it really kind of startswith safety, trust, respect, and
what I find is that whencouples are in crisis, it's
usually because safety, trustand respect are not stable.
Cassandra (28:09):
Right.
Kristal (28:10):
However, when couples are, you know they feel safe,
they trust each other, theyrespect each other, but they're
kind of stagnant.
They kind of hit a lull, aplateau and they're like is this
it?
That's where I work withcouples on the O-N-G.
How can we stay open, how canwe look for new possibilities,
how can we explore, you know,new things to do together at
(28:32):
this stage of our lives?
And then how can we nurture ourcontinued growth?
And maybe that's also nurturingour friend groups right, Making
sure that we're stayingconnected.
And then generosity is whatreally helps a relationship
thrive.
So I kind of divide it intosurviving and thriving.
Survival is the basic STR,thriving is the ONG.
Cassandra (28:53):
Wow, that is awesome.
I love that.
The safety, safety, the trust,respect, being open, nurture and
um, generosity.
I love that.
So now, uh, as you indicated,you know you've been married for
a while and I think sometimesin marriages you take your
(29:15):
partner for granted.
You know like, yeah, you knowyeah, how, and you don't want to
wait until it's too late.
Like you indicated, you canhave an opportunity and see
things just aren't right andyou're telling your partner and
they're not communicating, theydon't want to talk about it
(29:35):
anymore.
I'm kind of thinking, as yousaid, sometimes it's too late,
it's just too late.
And then there are people thatare in a relationship not happy.
They don't leave because of thekids.
Okay, then when the kids leave,then it's a whole new dynamic.
(29:58):
So I guess I'm just my questionis how do you sustain that?
And it sounds like it's hardwork.
Relationships are work.
If you want them to work, yougot to work them, period.
So how do you sustain that tocontinue to have a healthy
(30:20):
relationship, or or can youcontinue that?
Kristal (30:25):
yeah, you absolutely can.
But this is also where you knowpart of me coming on this
podcast and like talking, and itis changing is having more
awareness that therapy can beproactive.
Don't just wait until you'reusing it as like the er for your
relationship, right?
Don't rush in like, oh, ourusing it as like the ER for your
relationship, right?
Don't rush in like, oh, ourrelationship is, you know,
(30:46):
flatlining.
Can you help save it?
It's like be proactive.
Start, you know, doing thingswith your partner.
Go to communication workshops,go to couples events, find other
couples that could be mentors.
Be proactive because that way,you know I have couples that
they came in at, you know,premarital, and then you know
they come and check in everyyear or when the next big phase
(31:09):
of life, when they have a baby,they come check in.
When they're thinking aboutbuying a new house or making a
new big financial decision,they'll come back and check in
and really that's that proactiveapproach of like we don't need
to always come in when we'restruggling.
We come in proactively becausewe care, because we want this to
last a lifetime, so we're goingto treat this like the most
(31:32):
important thing in our lives.
Cassandra (31:35):
Wow, okay, that's good, that's good.
I want to talk about sex.
A lot of people like they laughwhen you say the word and you
are a sex therapist as well.
Is that correct?
Yeah, what are some of thecommon misconceptions about
sexuality and intimacy?
Kristal (31:56):
Ooh, there are lots of common misconceptions.
I think there's two basic ones.
One is that men are always upfor sex, right, and then the
second one is that women have tobe convinced into sex right
these are kind of the, thescripts, right, even if you
think about, like when you're ateenager, where it's like the
(32:17):
boy is always going to try topush that line and girls you got
to hold the gates, you know,and so that dynamic, it really
it really doesn't set couples upfor success, because then,
often too, what I see later onis what's called kind of desire
discrepancy, right, whereas,like, one partner has a higher
desire, the other person doesn't, and they don't quite know how
(32:40):
to get past that, and so that'sa lot of you know.
One big thing I love sharingwith couples, which I'm happy to
share with your audience, is,you know, the two different
types of desire.
There's spontaneous desire andthere's responsive desire, and
so even just talking about thatof like you know, there are some
(33:00):
people that are spontaneouswhen it comes to desire.
It's like microwave right, theycan turn it on bing, it's done,
they can go along with theirday.
Other people are like ovens theyneed the preheating, they need
to warm up, and they accesstheir sexual desire in response
to pleasure.
That's already happening.
So it's the pleasure firstmodel, and so even just talking
(33:24):
about that with couples, wedon't talk about that much at
all in our society, right?
And so really justunderstanding that, when it
comes to a healthy sexualrelationship, the main goal and
this is from the work of EmilyNagoski and she talks about
pleasure is the measure.
People don't say no to thingsthat are pleasurable, so is the
(33:46):
focus on performance, is thefocus on obligation or is the
focus on pleasure?
Cassandra (33:53):
Interesting.
Yeah, that's, that's good.
That's good, that's awesome.
Wow, okay, okay.
So what are some advice do youhave for individuals to navigate
the complexities of the moderndating and relationships?
Kristal (34:27):
relationships.
So I would say so, you know, inmy, in my model, the first um
the first pillar is safety andthe first part of safety is self
self-awareness okay, right,because I also think that you
know in in this culture there'sa lot of emphasis on like and
like you mentioned in thebeginning, like are you in a
relationship, are you lookingfor a relationship?
You know like the beginning,like are you in a relationship,
are you looking for arelationship?
You know like the idea thatyou're supposed to be in a
relationship and if you're not,that something's wrong with you.
(34:49):
And I think really justrecognizing like, hold on
Relationships are really hardwork and they're also a choice.
You can also choose to be in arelationship, or you can choose
to not be in a relationshipuntil you're ready to look for a
partner who will elevate you,not just somebody who will like
fill an empty space on yourcouch.
(35:11):
And again, there's nothingwrong with just finding somebody
for companionship, but really,that would be the first thing of
having that self-awareness.
Am I just looking for acompanionship or am I looking to
build a true partnership?
Do I just want somebody to goto the movies with and have sex
(35:31):
with, or am I looking forsomeone to build a life with?
Cassandra (35:34):
Okay, Okay and building a life with.
Does that have to be marriage?
No, not at all.
Kristal (35:41):
No, but you do have to have a shared understanding of
what that looks like, right?
Cassandra (35:48):
Uh-huh, okay, okay.
So you know, a lot of timeswhen people are getting ready to
get married, they have a lot ofthe churches have premarital
counseling and uh, some, I don'tknow, a month or two, some six
(36:10):
months, um, and you know, andthen one of the things they say
is don't have sex beforemarriage.
That's another big thing.
Don't live together, you know,unless you're married.
(36:32):
Now, that's, that's a, I wouldsay, a core belief with certain
people.
You know, but one of the thingsI've learned since I've been
married is and I haven't beenmarried that long is you never
know a person until you marry.
That's, that's me, you know,and I mean you really don't.
(36:55):
And you see stuff that, oh mygosh, I didn't think.
Oh my goodness, oh my, my God,what is this?
What did I do?
What do you think about that?
Kristal (37:06):
You know, it is really interesting, and this is where
I'm very, very much advocate forpremarital counseling, because
dating somebody and beingmarried to them are very
different, right.
We have different internalexpectations for boyfriends
versus husbands, right, and so Ithink that's something else
Like, yes, I'm an advocate ofpremarital counseling.
(37:27):
As far as going to a church anddoing it, just know there are
other options, right.
So if your faith is reallyimportant to you, that's great,
but if not, there are secularpremarital counseling options
that will help you.
And then, as far as you know,sex or not, that's, you know,
personal preference, all of that.
(37:48):
But the moving in together, andthat one is actually a really
interesting one, because thereis some data, some science that
says that people that livetogether sometimes have higher
rates of breaking up aftermarriage, and so you know.
So I wanted to understand thatbecause I was like, ooh, so what
(38:09):
is that?
Like you know.
But what they find is thatreally it's about the
intentionality of taking therelationship to the next step,
right, and so it's calledsliding into commitment.
If people end up livingtogether simply because it was
convenient, somebody's lease wasup and they didn't really make
that intentional next step,sometimes they end up staying in
(38:31):
a relationship for too longbecause they have now a lease
together, they have a pettogether, and that's where, then
, those relationships can beless happy.
So whether or not you choose tolive with your partner before
marriage, that's totally up toyou, but make sure that you're
making that choice intentionallyand make sure that you're both
on the same page about whyyou're living in together, and
(38:52):
is it a practical decision or isit a relational one?
And that really is thedifference.
Cassandra (38:59):
Okay, that's good, we're almost done.
This is just fascinating to me.
I kind of wish that, as youindicated, mean you'll stay
together forever or you break up.
You know it's.
(39:24):
I just think it's veryimportant because it opens up,
you become more aware and yourthought process is a little
different, like, hmm, this is,this is serious.
You know it's like to death.
Do you part?
Like, oh my gosh, now all thistechnology and social media.
(39:46):
This is relatively new you know,and do you think all of that
impacts a relationship and, ifso, in what way?
Kristal (39:58):
It absolutely can.
I mean, first of all, peopleare just addicted to their
phones, you know.
And so what I see often is thatit, just regardless of what
you're actually looking at,being not present is one of the
biggest eroders of connection,right?
It's like, oh, you're in thesame house, you're spending all
(40:19):
weekend together, but you neveractually really connect because
you're both on your phones, oryou go out to dinner and you're
just on your phones, and so thatis really, I would say, you
know.
Of course there's, like youknow, measuring, you know
comparison, there's thepossibility of, like you know,
cheating, but ultimately the bigthing is not being present.
(40:41):
And it also impacts children,right, because when parents are
on their phones all the time,the kids are trying to get their
attention.
Cassandra (40:47):
Yeah.
Kristal (40:51):
So, really, this is where I see the biggest issue.
Cassandra (40:57):
Okay, all right, okay .
So this book, I love it already.
I love the strong.
It's kind of like the title theWay to your Strong Relationship
.
Show that book one more time.
It's by Kristal DeSantis and Ithink it's a game changer.
(41:22):
I'm not ready yet, but I'mgoing to.
I'm going to get that book and Iencourage my listeners to get
that book.
Whether you are in arelationship or you want to be
in a relationship.
You're not in a relationship.
I think it is a game changer.
Just listening to theconversation that we, crystal
(41:46):
and I, have had her experience Ithink it's.
I just encourage my listenersto get that book Now.
Would you now the book?
When I saw the title and Imentioned to you when I let you
out and in and back and forth onthe um, I was curious to know.
(42:08):
I can't say men are not readers, but how would you get a man to
you know a relationship unlessthey have the strong acronym you
know, how would you get?
You would recommend this forwomen to read the book, but you
also would like a man to readthe book.
(42:30):
How do you get men to read thebook?
Kristal (42:32):
podcast.
They, you know they likedriving, so I put it on Audible
for men Also.
You know I've had a lot of menread it because you know it's
been recommended to them eitherby their partners, by another
(42:53):
male friend or by theirtherapist.
And you know, part of thereason I wrote this book for men
even though I recommend womenread it too is because there
just isn't that much out therefor men when it comes to
self-improvement and improvingtheir relationships.
And I know that there are veryhigh functioning, like high
performing men that are lookingfor self-improvement, but
(43:15):
unfortunately what they end upfinding are finance books,
fitness books, and notrelational books.
So what I've found is that fora man who is kind of really
looking for self-improvement, hewill absolutely read the book,
and so that's a good sign aswell.
It's like, you know, a manthat's looking to improve
himself.
(43:36):
And then, as a woman, if youwant to read it and just kind of
, I've had some female clientsread it and say, oh, this is the
kind of guy I'm looking for,and so this is also then my
marker.
As I'm going out there anddating, I'm going to look for
these, you know, these six greenflags.
Is he safe, is he trustworthy,does he respect my boundaries,
is he open, does he know how tocommunicate, does he nurture my
(44:02):
dreams when I tell him aboutwhat I want in my life.
And is he generous, and notjust financially, but, you know,
is he generous with his time.
Does he, you know, make it apoint to text me back.
Does he, you know, send me ameme that says, hey, thinking
about you.
And so these are all the greenflags that a woman can read this
book and also start looking forRight.
Cassandra (44:20):
I love the green flag thing because we talk about red
flags all the time, so theseare green flags.
I love that concept.
Crystal, how can my listenersget in touch with you?
Kristal (44:34):
I am on Instagram at ATX Therapist because I'm in
Austin, texas, so ATX Therapist,or my website, is just
stronglove.
Cassandra (44:45):
Okay, okay, and of course you do virtual therapy
right.
Kristal (44:51):
Yes, in Texas.
I'm licensed in Texas right now.
I will be expanding to doingsome coaching nationally, but
I'm not quite there yet.
Cassandra (45:01):
Okay, okay.
Do you have like training?
Do you offer training?
Kristal (45:06):
I do for therapists.
Yes, I do trainings fortherapists, especially on
working with men.
So yeah, I'm happy to be aresource.
Cassandra (45:14):
Okay, Well, it was a pleasure to have you on, is your
way, in your way and, Crystal,you have conveyed, I say, a lot
of good points, nuggets that canhelp build strong relationships
(45:36):
.
You know what to look for, guys,when you think of strong.
Remember the acronym and, moreimportantly, if you got the book
, it would kind of be in yourhead.
I mean, I think you know mostpeople like Audible, like I'm an
Audible person but I do get thebooks too.
But just you know, like thispodcast, I encourage you to
(46:02):
share it because I know you havefriends, acquaintances or
somebody that's experiencingsome relationship challenges and
also want to build a healthyrelationship.
I encourage you to share this,listen to it over and over and
you know how to get in touchwith Crystal, and I just want to
(46:25):
thank her again and my audience.
You've gained some insight intonavigating modern relationship
challenges, so I'm hopeful thatyou're leaving more aware and
equipped to foster healthierdynamics through understanding
and addressing men's situations.
We didn't talk a lot aboutmental health for men, but I
(46:50):
think Kristal addresses that aswell and that's addressed in
your book as well, and it's notjust women that have mental
health challenges.
Kristal (46:59):
Absolutely.
Cassandra (47:00):
Right, yes, so thank you so much.
Thank you as I tell mylisteners bye for now, and God
bless you all, and thanks again,Kristal.
out there to all of my listeners and I'd like to
welcome you to Is your Way Inyour Way podcast and I'm your
host.
My name is CassandraCrawley-Mayo and, for those new
listeners out there, let me justshare a little bit about this
podcast.
Today is going to be adifferent twist.
You know I am all aboutgrounded and empowering women to
(00:22):
understand the internalbarriers that's preventing them
from living their best life ontheir terms.
But I'd like us to talk about adifferent topic that they're
still about empowering, but it'sactually about empowering you
guys to understand the internalI say the internal battles men
(00:43):
face is crucial to achieving aholistic personal growth.
Many women encounter emotionalgaps in their relationships not
because their partner doesn'tcare, but because societal norms
have taught men to suppressvulnerability by exploring the
mental health and relationalchallenges that men face.
(01:06):
This episode offers deeperinsight into how both men and
women can break generationalcycles, improve connection and
stop being in their own wayindividually and together.
And I have a special guest ontoday and we were talking.
She's in the orange room and wewere talking before I sent her
(01:29):
back to the orange room that youknow a lot of times our
relationship can be verydistracting and it can prevent
us from living our best lifebecause we can be so fixated on
that relationship, fixated onour marriages, fixated on being
single and you want a man, justsimply fixate it, ok.
(01:49):
So we want to help you to getunstuck with this so that we can
move on with our best life onour terms.
So, I am going to introduce youto Kristal DeSantis.
Hi, Kristal.
Kristal (02:02):
Hi, cassandra, thanks for having me.
Cassandra (02:08):
Yes and welcome to, is your Way, in your Way, and
what I'd like to do is I want toread your bio to the listeners
so they will get understand, orhave a better point of reference
, why you are an expert in thisfield.
So, Kristal DeSantis is alicensed marriage and family
therapist.
She's an author, a creator ofthe Strong Model of Relationship
(02:32):
Therapy.
She's based in Austin, Texas,and she specializes in
trauma-informed andattachment-based therapy,
particularly for first respondercouples and men navigating
emotional challenges in today'sworld.
Her book, strong a relationshipfield guide for the modern man,
(02:54):
offers men practical strategiesto foster healthier, more
connected relationships, and sheis a passionate advocate for
men's mental health andrecognized voice in
international and nationalplatforms like Newsweek,
huffington Post and the Good MenProject.
(03:16):
So here we go, empoweringcouples to forge connections
that withstand the test of time.
Wow, guys, check this out.
This is amazing to me Becauseyou know, when we talk about
relationships, we're just like,oh yeah, let me hear about that.
And to have an expert on thepodcast today, I'm just super
(03:36):
excited about this.
So, Kristal, first question foryou, I am curious, and when I'm
curious, so is my audience.
For you, I am curious, and whenI'm curious.
So is my audience.
I'd like to know yourbackground or your backstory
that triggered your curiosityabout relationships.
Kristal (03:54):
Yeah, so I grew up with a very traditional family.
So my dad was a full-timeworker, dad was a full-time
worker and my mom was afull-time stay-at-home mom.
So I grew up in this kind ofvery traditional kind of
gendered script of whatrelationships, what marriages,
(04:14):
look like.
And you know, I was growing upand I'm one of six girls in my
family- oh, wow.
And yeah.
So it was great, it was fun.
But one thing I kind ofrealized is that, you know, I
didn't really see necessarilythe path that my mom took as the
(04:37):
path for me.
My younger sister, she really,you know, she really kind of saw
herself in that path and shegot married quite young and but
I really, just I thought I waslike, well, you know, I've put
in my time changing all mylittle.
You know my, as the oldestdaughter, I'm like I've got all
(04:59):
the under siblings, I've donethe diaper thing, I've done the
bottle thing.
I've, you know, as many of yourfemale listeners can identify
with this, right, it's like, asthe oldest daughter, you do get
a lot of responsibility.
And so what I really wanted wasto, you know, explore my career
, do something else.
So, long story short, what endedup happening is I just didn't
(05:20):
really date, I didn't have timefor it.
You know, I was, you know, justdoing all the sports and those.
You know all of that.
But then my younger sister gotmarried and so when my younger
sister got married, it reallykind of highlighted that, oh
gosh, I didn't have anyrelationship experience, I
didn't know anything aboutanything when it came to dating
(05:41):
and growing up with all girls.
I didn't really know anythingabout boys, except you know
they're over there.
So I ended up dating and it wasterrible.
So I was like, wow, I don'tknow how to do this at all.
So I ended up, going to therapy, met with a marriage and family
therapist and I was fascinatedbecause I was like, oh, I didn't
(06:02):
even know you could learn howto do this.
I thought it was just you know,some people are born with the
gene of like, they want tosettle down, they want to get
married, they want to havebabies, and some people just
they don't.
God skipped them in the lineupand so when I realized it was a
skill that I could learn, I just, you know, started learning
(06:23):
myself going to therapy, andthen I started going to school
to become a therapist.
And then here I am.
Cassandra (06:29):
Wow, that is so fascinating because I didn't
think dating and relationshiptook a skill.
But you know, based on you knowwhat I've gone through in my
relationships and I'm sure manyof the listeners like, well, you
know what, I should have gonetherapy before I even started
dating so that I can acquirethis skill Like Kristal was
talking about.
So now I'm going to find outwhat I could do differently now.
(06:51):
That's going to help me.
But one thing before we moveforward you talked about the
path your mom went through.
What was that path?
What was that path?
Kristal (07:02):
What was that?
So she I mean basically shenever really had her own career.
When she was young, you know,she knew she wanted to get
married.
She was engaged and then, youknow, just got married and
started having kids and she wasa stay-at-home mom and you know
(07:23):
that was her life and she was afantastic mom, ihome mom and, um
, you know that was that was herlife and she was a fantastic
mom.
I mean, literally she is thebest mom you could ever ask for.
But and again, like my dad isalso, he was a great parent to
me, but he was not a goodhusband to her, and so I saw
that she was, you know, verydedicated a mother.
She was very dedicated as awife and she did not have a
(07:46):
partner who was matching thatenergy.
Cassandra (07:50):
Wow, that's.
That's interesting and awell-known story, I'm sure, that
type of behavior so tell usabout.
Well, let me say, do you mindsharing what your journey to
love was like?
Kristal (08:10):
Yeah, that was uh.
So I guess that after my, aftermy younger sister got married,
it kind of highlighted that asthe oldest daughter, I was not
dating, um, and also my mom isAsian, and so there in the Asian
culture it's like you do kindof you know, start in order when
you do get married.
And so it kind of highlightedlike okay, well, what's going on
(08:33):
with her?
Like why is she not?
So I was like fine, I guessI'll date.
And so literally the next time Iwent out and there was a guy
that was attractive and asked meout, I was like okay, because
usually before that I would justkind of have a standard line
like oh, I don't date.
Like you know, we could befriends, but I'm kind of
pursuing this or pursuing thatDating is not really on my radar
(08:54):
.
And so I dated this guy and itwas just like I was like what is
the point of this?
Like I don't, we're both, youknow, like I'm attracted to him,
he's attracted to me.
But like what are we doing?
Like yeah, and so that itdidn't last very long it lasted
a couple of months because I waslike I just don't understand
(09:15):
how to do this.
Like what is what is happeninghere, and maybe partially
because, you know, I was soambitious in other areas of my
life, I was like just to kind oflike hang around with a guy
just because, yeah, I have malefriends, like I could do that
with anybody.
Why, why, why this?
(09:35):
So I didn't date after that.
For a while, after breaking upwith him, I was like I just
don't, I just don't get it, likeuntil I'm ready to get married,
what's the point?
Yeah, I came up with him.
I was like I just don't, I justdon't get it, like until I'm
ready to get married, what's thepoint?
But then I did end up, you know, when online dating came out
and so one of my friends shemade a profile for me and I
(09:56):
ended up matching with myhusband on the dating app and I
met him and I was like, oh mygosh, I really like this guy.
This actually might be the one,but once again.
I was like oh my gosh, I reallylike this guy.
This actually might be the one,but once again I was like but I
don't have any relationshipskills Like what do I do?
And so that's when I went totherapy and that's when I
(10:21):
started working through myattachment stuff.
I started working with my fearof ending up like my mom or
being in that kind of situation.
You know, I didn't even realizelike I had underlying trust
issues when it came torelationships.
And so really working throughall of that, and that is what
then?
My story of love was.
I really wanted to.
You know, I matched with myhusband.
(10:41):
I wanted to keep him, but Ididn't know how.
I matched with my husband.
I wanted to keep him, but Ididn't know how.
And now, gosh, we've beentogether now 15 years.
Cassandra (10:55):
Wow, oh my gosh, that's incredible, what a great
story you talked about.
So before you got married, youwent to a therapist, correct?
And then during that time, isthat when you started your
practice, or?
Kristal (11:10):
No, no, I've.
I've been a therapist since2014.
So so I went to therapy firstfor a couple of years, and then
I realized like, oh gosh, thisis something you could learn,
this is something you could do.
So then I went to you know,gosh, this is something you
could learn, this is somethingyou could do.
Then I went to grad school fora couple of years and then
started.
I graduated in 2014.
Cassandra (11:33):
OK, ok, ok, all right , I am really interested in what
you learned and what mylisteners could learn.
What skills do you believe we,as women, should have?
And also, there is a perceptionof masculinity Like what is a
(11:54):
man like?
What should we think, whatshould they be like?
And when they're not like whatwe expect, then it's like nope,
absolutely.
Can you tell us a's like nope,absolutely.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Kristal (12:08):
Absolutely, and I'm happy to share my own story.
And then what I use in mypractice is understanding your
attachment style and thenunderstanding any relational
trauma that you've experienced.
These two things right.
So for me, going into therapymyself and kind of unpacking
(12:30):
what my fear of marriage, whatmy fear of you know, ending up
kind of like my mom or being ina situation with a man who was
not faithful to me.
You know that was all attachment, injuries and trauma from
seeing what I saw with myparents and I didn't even
realize how much it had affectedme, right.
(12:52):
So I was really mistrustful ofmen.
Um, you know, as probably a lotof women are right, if you grow
up and you know also my husband, he is kind of the opposite of
me.
He grew up with five brothersand I grew up with six sisters
and then he was in the MarineCorps and so he's also this very
like masculine and I, you know,I went to an all women's
(13:16):
college, so we could.
You know, we're kind of like across-cultural couple as well.
You know my parents werecross-cultural and sometimes
that worked really well for them.
You know of all the things thatdidn't work in their
relationship.
That was something that I didsee my dad really make an effort
to understand my mom's culture,and so that was something.
(13:40):
And so those kind of three corethings are.
What I use in my practice ishelping people understand
attachment, helping peopleunderstand the impact of trauma
and it could be, you know,vicarious trauma, right, it
doesn't necessarily mean ithappened to them, it could be
watching their mom get cheatedon, or you know all of that,
right.
(14:00):
And then also understandingthat you know men and women are
socialized very differently andthen ending up in a relationship
together, approaching it almostlike a cross-cultural couple
yeah, it's going to set you upfor greater success than
assuming that men think likewomen or women.
You know, because it's just not, it's not the same at all.
(14:24):
Because it's just not, it's notthe same at all.
You know, even when I was incollege, like I said, I went to
an all-women's college and wewould go socialize, you know,
with the frats and with you knowthe boys and I just remember
thinking like okay, you look ata sorority house and it's
beautiful and it smells nice,and all the girls are like they
take pride in it.
(14:50):
And then you go to a frat houseand you're like don't touch
anything, like yeah, you know,the floors are sticky, there's
mold in the fridge, and I waslike how are these people
supposed to end up together,like how are they supposed to
co-create an environment thatfeels good if this is the
standard that is acceptable,right?
Um, so all of those thingsagain just really is kind of
core in the work that I learned,you know, going to therapy
myself through my ownexperiences, and then also what
(15:12):
I teach couples now is like yougot to understand.
you know what your attachmentstyle is.
You got to understand howtrauma has impacted you and you
got to recognize that if you'rein a heterosexual relationship,
you are in a cross-culturalrelationship.
Cassandra (15:27):
Okay, okay.
So in your bio you stated youspecialize in trauma-informed
therapy, particularly firstresponder couples and men
navigating emotional challengesin today's world.
Now what is okay andspecialized in trauma?
Kristal (15:59):
is that the attachment, what is specializing trauma?
So I am trained in EMDR, whichis a specific type of therapy
that is used specifically forPTSD.
Yeah, okay, yeah.
So I got trained in thatthrough the police department
because I wanted to work withofficers and also with veterans,
because EMDR is a very, veryeffective tool for working
(16:20):
through trauma.
But it can also be used forpeople with complex PTSD, right,
and so that might not be like Iwas in a car accident or I was
in a war.
It can be also used with like Iwas, you know, maybe exposed
different things as a child or Ihad this really traumatic
experience in my pastrelationship.
(16:40):
So that's what I use primarily,okay, as my trauma-informed
modality, but also just ingeneral trauma-informed approach
.
It kind of recognizes that youknow your mind and your body are
connected, Because I see thiswith a lot of really
high-intelligent andhigh-functioning women is
they're like I know up heresomething, something, but I
(17:04):
don't feel it in here, if thatmakes sense, right.
So there might be saying like Iknow this partner didn't cheat
on me, but I just have thissense in here that men are not
to be trusted, right.
And so the trauma-informed workis saying you know, let's
listen to the story that yourbody is holding and let's, let's
(17:26):
make room for that and processit and let's so.
It's kind of what's called inthe therapy world like a bottom
up approach rather than a topdown approach, cause the top
down approach is like hey,change your thoughts, you change
your life and cognitive, andit's like sometimes that works
but not always.
If there's a story of trauma,it's stored in your body but not
always.
Cassandra (17:46):
If there's a story of trauma, it's stored in your
body.
Kristal (17:54):
So do you believe most men and women experience some
type of trauma?
No, it's pretty common.
I would say that you know.
As a therapist and as asupervisor and as a trainer for
other therapists, I alwaysencourage therapists to have an
understanding of attachment andtrauma because you know, most
likely you will have a clientthat will have had some form of
(18:15):
trauma.
Because, you know the world isI mean, it's not always a safe
place.
Cassandra (18:21):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So tell us about when you talkabout what are the unique
challenges faced by men intoday's society.
Kristal (18:33):
Yeah, the unique challenges faced by men is that
the script has changed or theneeds of women have changed but
the script has not, but thescript has not.
And so you know, for generationsand this is kind of the preface
of my book right Forgenerations, men have been
taught that their value is inbeing a protector, a provider
(18:57):
and a procreator right.
So if you could protect yourwoman, if you could give her
food you know, bring home thebacon and if you could give her
babies, you were a top-notch guy.
All the moms wanted you fortheir daughters, like they were
fighting for you.
And now that's not exactly whata modern woman wants.
(19:17):
She's like I have my own job, Imean like I want you to have a
job, but you don't need toprovide for me, necessarily.
And then protection.
I don't want you getting infights with every guy in the
neighborhood, like that's notattractive to me, maybe.
I want some emotionalprotection, right.
And then procreation same thing, like I don't want you to just
(19:39):
give me a baby.
I want you to be an equalparent with me, right.
And yet there aren't scriptsfor that for men.
I not yet right.
And so we're still in thisreally transitional period where
what women want is differentfrom what men are being taught
is valuable yeah, yeah, yeah andI'm seeing a lot of men have
(20:03):
this mismatch of like.
I was raised to believe that yougetting a good job and being
physically fit and then makingsure that I you know I can do
this, why aren't I finding awoman that wants to match with
me?
It's like well, if you don'thave any emotional skills, if
you don't have any, you knowconversational skills, if you
(20:23):
cannot handle conflict, well, itdoesn't matter how much money
you make, she doesn't want you.
Cassandra (20:29):
Right, and that's kind of why you hear you know,
when there's friction in therelationship, I call it an
intense fellowship.
It's like you indicated I feedyou, I give you whatever you
want, I have this money, butthat's not what they are Women
are looking for.
They think that's enough.
(20:50):
So, Kristal, what happens, youknow?
Because society has changed andeven individuals that get
married Do you believe they can?
You heard the saying thisrelationship no longer works for
me because one of them havegrown in this way and the other
(21:12):
one's still stagnant.
Is that happening a?
Kristal (21:16):
lot today.
It does happen a lot Because,again, you know, I don't think
we have intentionalconversations about
relationships.
There is kind of this myth thatyou fall in love and then love
magically makes everythinghappen.
You find somebody you'reattracted to, there's chemistry,
and then happily ever after andit's like absolutely not.
(21:39):
Relationships take a lot ofskill, a lot of intentionality,
a lot of communication, a lot ofconflict management and
unfortunately we really don'tset people up for success, like
we don't teach those skills inschool.
And I do see a lot of couples Imean, thankfully I'm seeing a
(22:00):
lot more couples now that arecoming in early.
I'm seeing couples now that arein the dating phase, that are
in the premarital phase, becausethey recognize like love is
just not enough.
It's not when people say right,like what is that?
Cassandra (22:27):
You know, when you hear that, yeah, I'm not sure
what that is.
Kristal (22:34):
Sometimes you know it's one of two things.
So I talk about in my book thedifference between
function-based relationships andconnection-based relationships.
Right.
So there are relationships thatare based relationships right.
So there are relationships thatare based on function, right,
and that can kind of look likealmost transactional.
Yes, yeah, where you pick apartner not necessarily because
(22:57):
you deeply connect with them butbecause they have something
that you want.
All right, oh, they're a doctor, I want to marry a doctor,
right?
there you know they right, umand yeah.
And those relationships arefragile because when the
function ends, let's say theycome home one day and they're
like I decided I quit.
I don't want to be a doctoranymore, I'm going to be an
artist yes, that's max.
Cassandra (23:19):
All my my listeners know about max.
Kristal (23:22):
I'm so sorry well, when the relationships are based on
function, they're fragile right,because the relationship ends
when the function ends.
Cassandra (23:37):
He's having some type of trauma.
Kristal (23:39):
right now I'm not quite sure what it is, his attachment
figureheads, right, okay.
And then the other kind ofrelationship is connection-based
relationships, and those arethe ones that are deep, they're
soulful, they're fulfilling, butthey do take a lot of work and,
unfortunately, what ends uphappening sometimes is people
(24:01):
that had a strong connection inthe beginning right, let's say
they met in college, yeah,relied deeply intellectual, they
stayed up all night, or theywere deeply spiritual, or they
had a great chemistry.
But then what happens is thatwe, they put the relationship on
autopilot and the next thing,you know, they end up only
operating on a function level.
Right, so let's say kids come,let's say careers happen, and
(24:24):
next thing, you know, they justend up talking about logistics
all the time.
And then this is very common.
Then you see them in their 40sand they're like I don't have
any deep connection to mypartner, I just talk to them
about logistics.
What are the kids doing?
What time are you going to behome?
What should we eat for dinner?
What are your parents doing?
And that's where it stopsfeeling fulfilling and that's
(24:46):
where people start feeling likeI don't think we want the same
things, I think that we've grownapart, when, unfortunately and
sometimes they have right.
Sometimes one person is like oh, this is great, I don't want to
have any more deep connections,I just want to focus on
function, function, performance,performance, right, um.
But then the other person islike I missed the connection, I
(25:07):
want it back.
And so that's often where I seepeople in my office saying can
we get it back and, if so, whatkind of work will that take?
And unfortunately, sometimespeople come in and it's too
little, too late.
Cassandra (25:20):
Yeah, exactly, Exactly so.
The fundamentals for you of ahealthy relationship is it
connection?
Is it anything else Like?
What are the fundamentals of ahealthy relationship?
Kristal (25:36):
That's the fundamentals , so strong.
So that's the title of my book,but it's also the six pillars
of a healthy relationship.
Cassandra (25:45):
Okay.
Kristal (25:46):
So the first thing is safety.
All healthy relationships aresafe.
Okay, that means you can expressyourself freely.
You can have conflict, that youknow you can disagree, but it
still feels safe and you feelsafe in your shared goals.
You don't have to question doesthis person want the same
things I do?
(26:06):
You feel safe in we have ashared vision.
Because then T is trusttrustworthiness right Again, the
next pillar of a healthyrelationship.
But you cannot trust somebodyyou don't feel safe with.
You're going to always secondguess somebody you don't feel
safe with.
So safety is the foundation andthen we go trust.
(26:28):
And then the R is respect.
Every healthy relationshiprespects differences, respects
boundaries, and that'senvironment of mutual respect.
Right.
Whether one person is astay-at-home parent or the
working parent, these peoplerespect what they each bring to
the relationship.
(26:49):
And then O is openness opencommunication, openness about
the stages of growth, right theperson that you meet when you're
25 is not going to be the sameperson at 55.
And being open to you know whatdo we need to do to support our
best selves.
And then N is nurturing thatright, nurturing the connection
(27:10):
between the two of you, notletting it fade into oblivion,
saying what do we need to do tobe our best selves and how can
we support each other in makingsure that we don't feel like
we're settling being in thisrelationship.
It's like the power couple.
The power couple is the goalright, but I need to nurture you
and I need to feel nurtured byyou Right, and that's on both
(27:32):
ends, both sides, absolutely.
And then the G is generosity,which is that little extra of
you know what.
What can I do to make mypartner's day a little bit
better?
How can I go out of my way?
But again, you don't want to begenerous with someone you don't
trust.
You don't want to be generouswith somebody you don't respect.
(27:55):
You don't want to nurturesomebody you don't feel safe
with.
So it really kind of startswith safety, trust, respect, and
what I find is that whencouples are in crisis, it's
usually because safety, trustand respect are not stable.
Cassandra (28:09):
Right.
Kristal (28:10):
However, when couples are, you know they feel safe,
they trust each other, theyrespect each other, but they're
kind of stagnant.
They kind of hit a lull, aplateau and they're like is this
it?
That's where I work withcouples on the O-N-G.
How can we stay open, how canwe look for new possibilities,
how can we explore, you know,new things to do together at
(28:32):
this stage of our lives?
And then how can we nurture ourcontinued growth?
And maybe that's also nurturingour friend groups right, Making
sure that we're stayingconnected.
And then generosity is whatreally helps a relationship
thrive.
So I kind of divide it intosurviving and thriving.
Survival is the basic STR,thriving is the ONG.
Cassandra (28:53):
Wow, that is awesome.
I love that.
The safety, safety, the trust,respect, being open, nurture and
um, generosity.
I love that.
So now, uh, as you indicated,you know you've been married for
a while and I think sometimesin marriages you take your
(29:15):
partner for granted.
You know like, yeah, you knowyeah, how, and you don't want to
wait until it's too late.
Like you indicated, you canhave an opportunity and see
things just aren't right andyou're telling your partner and
they're not communicating, theydon't want to talk about it
(29:35):
anymore.
I'm kind of thinking, as yousaid, sometimes it's too late,
it's just too late.
And then there are people thatare in a relationship not happy.
They don't leave because of thekids.
Okay, then when the kids leave,then it's a whole new dynamic.
(29:58):
So I guess I'm just my questionis how do you sustain that?
And it sounds like it's hardwork.
Relationships are work.
If you want them to work, yougot to work them, period.
So how do you sustain that tocontinue to have a healthy
(30:20):
relationship, or or can youcontinue that?
Kristal (30:25):
yeah, you absolutely can.
But this is also where you knowpart of me coming on this
podcast and like talking, and itis changing is having more
awareness that therapy can beproactive.
Don't just wait until you'reusing it as like the er for your
relationship, right?
Don't rush in like, oh, ourusing it as like the ER for your
relationship, right?
Don't rush in like, oh, ourrelationship is, you know,
(30:46):
flatlining.
Can you help save it?
It's like be proactive.
Start, you know, doing thingswith your partner.
Go to communication workshops,go to couples events, find other
couples that could be mentors.
Be proactive because that way,you know I have couples that
they came in at, you know,premarital, and then you know
they come and check in everyyear or when the next big phase
(31:09):
of life, when they have a baby,they come check in.
When they're thinking aboutbuying a new house or making a
new big financial decision,they'll come back and check in
and really that's that proactiveapproach of like we don't need
to always come in when we'restruggling.
We come in proactively becausewe care, because we want this to
last a lifetime, so we're goingto treat this like the most
(31:32):
important thing in our lives.
Cassandra (31:35):
Wow, okay, that's good, that's good.
I want to talk about sex.
A lot of people like they laughwhen you say the word and you
are a sex therapist as well.
Is that correct?
Yeah, what are some of thecommon misconceptions about
sexuality and intimacy?
Kristal (31:56):
Ooh, there are lots of common misconceptions.
I think there's two basic ones.
One is that men are always upfor sex, right, and then the
second one is that women have tobe convinced into sex right
these are kind of the, thescripts, right, even if you
think about, like when you're ateenager, where it's like the
(32:17):
boy is always going to try topush that line and girls you got
to hold the gates, you know,and so that dynamic, it really
it really doesn't set couples upfor success, because then,
often too, what I see later onis what's called kind of desire
discrepancy, right, whereas,like, one partner has a higher
desire, the other person doesn't, and they don't quite know how
(32:40):
to get past that, and so that'sa lot of you know.
One big thing I love sharingwith couples, which I'm happy to
share with your audience, is,you know, the two different
types of desire.
There's spontaneous desire andthere's responsive desire, and
so even just talking about thatof like you know, there are some
(33:00):
people that are spontaneouswhen it comes to desire.
It's like microwave right, theycan turn it on bing, it's done,
they can go along with theirday.
Other people are like ovens theyneed the preheating, they need
to warm up, and they accesstheir sexual desire in response
to pleasure.
That's already happening.
So it's the pleasure firstmodel, and so even just talking
(33:24):
about that with couples, wedon't talk about that much at
all in our society, right?
And so really justunderstanding that, when it
comes to a healthy sexualrelationship, the main goal and
this is from the work of EmilyNagoski and she talks about
pleasure is the measure.
People don't say no to thingsthat are pleasurable, so is the
(33:46):
focus on performance, is thefocus on obligation or is the
focus on pleasure?
Cassandra (33:53):
Interesting.
Yeah, that's, that's good.
That's good, that's awesome.
Wow, okay, okay.
So what are some advice do youhave for individuals to navigate
the complexities of the moderndating and relationships?
Kristal (34:27):
relationships.
So I would say so, you know, inmy, in my model, the first um
the first pillar is safety andthe first part of safety is self
self-awareness okay, right,because I also think that you
know in in this culture there'sa lot of emphasis on like and
like you mentioned in thebeginning, like are you in a
relationship, are you lookingfor a relationship?
You know like the beginning,like are you in a relationship,
are you looking for arelationship?
You know like the idea thatyou're supposed to be in a
relationship and if you're not,that something's wrong with you.
(34:49):
And I think really justrecognizing like, hold on
Relationships are really hardwork and they're also a choice.
You can also choose to be in arelationship, or you can choose
to not be in a relationshipuntil you're ready to look for a
partner who will elevate you,not just somebody who will like
fill an empty space on yourcouch.
(35:11):
And again, there's nothingwrong with just finding somebody
for companionship, but really,that would be the first thing of
having that self-awareness.
Am I just looking for acompanionship or am I looking to
build a true partnership?
Do I just want somebody to goto the movies with and have sex
(35:31):
with, or am I looking forsomeone to build a life with?
Cassandra (35:34):
Okay, Okay and building a life with.
Does that have to be marriage?
No, not at all.
Kristal (35:41):
No, but you do have to have a shared understanding of
what that looks like, right?
Cassandra (35:48):
Uh-huh, okay, okay.
So you know, a lot of timeswhen people are getting ready to
get married, they have a lot ofthe churches have premarital
counseling and uh, some, I don'tknow, a month or two, some six
(36:10):
months, um, and you know, andthen one of the things they say
is don't have sex beforemarriage.
That's another big thing.
Don't live together, you know,unless you're married.
(36:32):
Now, that's, that's a, I wouldsay, a core belief with certain
people.
You know, but one of the thingsI've learned since I've been
married is and I haven't beenmarried that long is you never
know a person until you marry.
That's, that's me, you know,and I mean you really don't.
(36:55):
And you see stuff that, oh mygosh, I didn't think.
Oh my goodness, oh my, my God,what is this?
What did I do?
What do you think about that?
Kristal (37:06):
You know, it is really interesting, and this is where
I'm very, very much advocate forpremarital counseling, because
dating somebody and beingmarried to them are very
different, right.
We have different internalexpectations for boyfriends
versus husbands, right, and so Ithink that's something else
Like, yes, I'm an advocate ofpremarital counseling.
(37:27):
As far as going to a church anddoing it, just know there are
other options, right.
So if your faith is reallyimportant to you, that's great,
but if not, there are secularpremarital counseling options
that will help you.
And then, as far as you know,sex or not, that's, you know,
personal preference, all of that.
(37:48):
But the moving in together, andthat one is actually a really
interesting one, because thereis some data, some science that
says that people that livetogether sometimes have higher
rates of breaking up aftermarriage, and so you know.
So I wanted to understand thatbecause I was like, ooh, so what
(38:09):
is that?
Like you know.
But what they find is thatreally it's about the
intentionality of taking therelationship to the next step,
right, and so it's calledsliding into commitment.
If people end up livingtogether simply because it was
convenient, somebody's lease wasup and they didn't really make
that intentional next step,sometimes they end up staying in
(38:31):
a relationship for too longbecause they have now a lease
together, they have a pettogether, and that's where, then
, those relationships can beless happy.
So whether or not you choose tolive with your partner before
marriage, that's totally up toyou, but make sure that you're
making that choice intentionallyand make sure that you're both
on the same page about whyyou're living in together, and
(38:52):
is it a practical decision or isit a relational one?
And that really is thedifference.
Cassandra (38:59):
Okay, that's good, we're almost done.
This is just fascinating to me.
I kind of wish that, as youindicated, mean you'll stay
together forever or you break up.
You know it's.
(39:24):
I just think it's veryimportant because it opens up,
you become more aware and yourthought process is a little
different, like, hmm, this is,this is serious.
You know it's like to death.
Do you part?
Like, oh my gosh, now all thistechnology and social media.
(39:46):
This is relatively new you know,and do you think all of that
impacts a relationship and, ifso, in what way?
Kristal (39:58):
It absolutely can.
I mean, first of all, peopleare just addicted to their
phones, you know.
And so what I see often is thatit, just regardless of what
you're actually looking at,being not present is one of the
biggest eroders of connection,right?
It's like, oh, you're in thesame house, you're spending all
(40:19):
weekend together, but you neveractually really connect because
you're both on your phones, oryou go out to dinner and you're
just on your phones, and so thatis really, I would say, you
know.
Of course there's, like youknow, measuring, you know
comparison, there's thepossibility of, like you know,
cheating, but ultimately the bigthing is not being present.
(40:41):
And it also impacts children,right, because when parents are
on their phones all the time,the kids are trying to get their
attention.
Cassandra (40:47):
Yeah.
Kristal (40:51):
So, really, this is where I see the biggest issue.
Cassandra (40:57):
Okay, all right, okay .
So this book, I love it already.
I love the strong.
It's kind of like the title theWay to your Strong Relationship
.
Show that book one more time.
It's by Kristal DeSantis and Ithink it's a game changer.
(41:22):
I'm not ready yet, but I'mgoing to.
I'm going to get that book and Iencourage my listeners to get
that book.
Whether you are in arelationship or you want to be
in a relationship.
You're not in a relationship.
I think it is a game changer.
Just listening to theconversation that we, crystal
(41:46):
and I, have had her experience Ithink it's.
I just encourage my listenersto get that book Now.
Would you now the book?
When I saw the title and Imentioned to you when I let you
out and in and back and forth onthe um, I was curious to know.
(42:08):
I can't say men are not readers, but how would you get a man to
you know a relationship unlessthey have the strong acronym you
know, how would you get?
You would recommend this forwomen to read the book, but you
also would like a man to readthe book.
(42:30):
How do you get men to read thebook?
Kristal (42:32):
podcast.
They, you know they likedriving, so I put it on Audible
for men Also.
You know I've had a lot of menread it because you know it's
been recommended to them eitherby their partners, by another
(42:53):
male friend or by theirtherapist.
And you know, part of thereason I wrote this book for men
even though I recommend womenread it too is because there
just isn't that much out therefor men when it comes to
self-improvement and improvingtheir relationships.
And I know that there are veryhigh functioning, like high
performing men that are lookingfor self-improvement, but
(43:15):
unfortunately what they end upfinding are finance books,
fitness books, and notrelational books.
So what I've found is that fora man who is kind of really
looking for self-improvement, hewill absolutely read the book,
and so that's a good sign aswell.
It's like, you know, a manthat's looking to improve
himself.
(43:36):
And then, as a woman, if youwant to read it and just kind of
, I've had some female clientsread it and say, oh, this is the
kind of guy I'm looking for,and so this is also then my
marker.
As I'm going out there anddating, I'm going to look for
these, you know, these six greenflags.
Is he safe, is he trustworthy,does he respect my boundaries,
is he open, does he know how tocommunicate, does he nurture my
(44:02):
dreams when I tell him aboutwhat I want in my life.
And is he generous, and notjust financially, but, you know,
is he generous with his time.
Does he, you know, make it apoint to text me back.
Does he, you know, send me ameme that says, hey, thinking
about you.
And so these are all the greenflags that a woman can read this
book and also start looking forRight.
Cassandra (44:20):
I love the green flag thing because we talk about red
flags all the time, so theseare green flags.
I love that concept.
Crystal, how can my listenersget in touch with you?
Kristal (44:34):
I am on Instagram at ATX Therapist because I'm in
Austin, texas, so ATX Therapist,or my website, is just
stronglove.
Cassandra (44:45):
Okay, okay, and of course you do virtual therapy
right.
Kristal (44:51):
Yes, in Texas.
I'm licensed in Texas right now.
I will be expanding to doingsome coaching nationally, but
I'm not quite there yet.
Cassandra (45:01):
Okay, okay.
Do you have like training?
Do you offer training?
Kristal (45:06):
I do for therapists.
Yes, I do trainings fortherapists, especially on
working with men.
So yeah, I'm happy to be aresource.
Cassandra (45:14):
Okay, Well, it was a pleasure to have you on, is your
way, in your way and, Crystal,you have conveyed, I say, a lot
of good points, nuggets that canhelp build strong relationships
(45:36):
.
You know what to look for, guys,when you think of strong.
Remember the acronym and, moreimportantly, if you got the book
, it would kind of be in yourhead.
I mean, I think you know mostpeople like Audible, like I'm an
Audible person but I do get thebooks too.
But just you know, like thispodcast, I encourage you to
(46:02):
share it because I know you havefriends, acquaintances or
somebody that's experiencingsome relationship challenges and
also want to build a healthyrelationship.
I encourage you to share this,listen to it over and over and
you know how to get in touchwith Crystal, and I just want to
(46:25):
thank her again and my audience.
You've gained some insight intonavigating modern relationship
challenges, so I'm hopeful thatyou're leaving more aware and
equipped to foster healthierdynamics through understanding
and addressing men's situations.
We didn't talk a lot aboutmental health for men, but I
(46:50):
think Kristal addresses that aswell and that's addressed in
your book as well, and it's notjust women that have mental
health challenges.
Kristal (46:59):
Absolutely.
Cassandra (47:00):
Right, yes, so thank you so much.
Thank you as I tell mylisteners bye for now, and God
bless you all, and thanks again,Kristal.
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