July 31, 2025 • 53 mins
Michelle Nazat shares how persistence and consistency in Bible reading transformed her life, leading to 500+ podcast episodes and a published novel. She reveals that small, daily commitments to God's Word create the foundation for significant personal and spiritual transformation over time.
• Bible study becomes transformative when we look for God's character rather than just seeking answers for ourselves
• Michelle's podcast "More Than a Song" uses Christian music as an entry point to deeper Bible engagement
• Consistency in spiritual disciplines is strengthened through accountability and community
• Writing her novel "A Seat at the Table" required committing to 1,000 words per day, five days a week
• The Bible serves as our standard of truth amid the chaos of competing voices in today's world
• Finding a wise guide who aligns with biblical values helps navigate important decisions
• For lukewarm believers, reconnection begins with simply picking up scripture again without shame
• True transformation happens when we fix our eyes on Jesus rather than our circumstances
• Community reinforces commitment and provides encouragement during challenging seasons
Connect with Michelle at michelleneezat.com/unlock for free resources including Bible studies and materials related to her book.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cassandra (00:00):
Good day out there to all my listeners and I'd like
to welcome you back to Is yourWay In your Way, and, yes, I'm
your host, cassandraCrawley-Mayo, and I have a
question for you.
Have you ever felt like you'redoing all the right things
reading your Bible, settinggoals, starting new habits but
(00:23):
you still feel liketransformation is just sort of
out of your reach?
You know, it's kind of like thename of the podcast Is your way
in your way.
There's certain things you wantto accomplish, but you just
can't seem to do it.
Well, what if I told you thatthe key isn't in doing more, but
(00:44):
in doing it consistently overtime, and I have a special guest
that's going to talk about that, but also so my new listeners
out there, we are talking abouttopics related to personal
improvement, personaldevelopment, and some is
(01:04):
business improvement andbusiness development as well,
and our topic today is titledthe transformational power of
persistence over time.
And I am going to take a deepdive into this persistent power
over time with my incredible,incredible guest by the name of
(01:29):
Michelle Nazat, and I meant toask Michelle to pronounce her
last name for me, and I forgotto do that.
Michelle (01:37):
No, you did great.
So here in the town that I livein it's NAZAT.
But when my grandfather or myhusband's father went to the
Navy they were like, no, that's,you know too French sounding,
we're going to say NEZAT.
So I say NEZAT, like where areyour knees at.
But it's funny because in townthey would call me NAZAT.
So you actually did it right,okay good, Excellent, Excellent.
Cassandra (02:01):
So this is what I want to do for my listeners,
Michelle.
I just want to read a littlebit about who you are so they
will understand what, why youare qualified to talk about what
we're going to talk about Now.
(02:26):
Michelle is a Christian fictionauthor and Bible teacher who
has spent over a decade helpingpeople engage with scripture in
a meaningful way.
Through her podcast More Than aSong.
She's inspired thousands,thousands, to go beyond just
reading the Bible to trulyliving it.
She is going to talk about whatI call sharing powerful
insights on how small,consistent steps in faith can
(02:52):
lead to radical transformation,whether in your spiritual life,
your personal growth or evenyour creative calling.
So if you've ever struggled withsticking to something, a
commitment, a wonder if yourpersistence will ever pay off.
This conversation is going toencourage and equip you.
(03:12):
So sit back.
If you're driving, please keepyour eyes on the road.
If you're just sitting downlistening, you know, get a cup
of tea and settle in and let'sget started on this awesome
conversation.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, Michelle, tell us, tellthe audience about your
backstory.
Michelle (03:32):
Yeah.
So just what led me here todayis I most recently wrote a
fiction novel and I had beenpodcasting for quite some time,
and I got some advice hey, youknow, get on other people's
podcasts, talk about your book,talk about your journey.
And I actually had thislimiting belief that I couldn't
(03:54):
go on other people's podcastsbecause I was a solo podcaster.
And so I said, oh well, since Idon't, I can't, I don't really
have a format that allows themto come on my podcast, I don't
really have a format that allowsthem to come on my podcast.
I shouldn't be asking to be ontheirs, which is really silly,
because you have a podcast ofinterviewing people and you want
to get to know people and heartheir stories and that's how
(04:14):
your audience learns, and sothat's kind of what got me on
this journey.
But what qualifies me to evenbe here, I guess, is because I
have been podcasting since 2014.
But what qualifies me to evenbe here, I guess, is because I
have been podcasting since 2014.
When I started podcasting, therewere less than 150,000 podcasts
in existence, and in theChristian marketplace, there
(04:36):
were less than 18,000 podcasts,and the majority of those were
pastors.
So, like it would be.
They would basically publishthe sermon, the audios of the
sermon, and call that a podcast.
And so, um, I, yeah, so I uhstarted on the journey of
podcasting because I had a bunchof new believers in my midst
(04:57):
and one of the very first thingsthat, um, people do when they
come to Christ is they changethe music that they're listening
to.
And I was listening toChristian music on the day and I
said, oh man, I wish my friendStacy knew that that song that I
was just listening to came thatthe lyrics come from the book
of James.
Wouldn't it be neat if shecould study the book of James,
hear the song, and it wouldremind her about what she
(05:18):
studied.
I was also.
I wanted to, you know, reallyhelp my kids engage in scripture
and things like that.
So I wanted to, you know,really help my kids engage in
scripture and things like that,and seeing that the power of
music to do that.
So when I went to a marketingconference, I kind of put two
and two together and one of thespeakers was like don't do a
blog, everyone's blogging, ofcourse.
Now, 2025, we could say don't doa podcast, everybody's
(05:40):
podcasting on the ground floor,you know, and so but and it was
just such a unique uh connection.
So basically, my podcast usesChristian music that plays on
the radio and uh in is as alaunching point to dive into
scripture.
And then we kind of leave thesong behind and we dive into
scripture and I help peopleengage uh with the Bible with
(06:03):
through I call them Bibleinteraction tool exercises,
bites, just really practicalways, and so that's kind of what
led me to and I'm continuing topodcast.
I was weekly since 2014 and Iwent biweekly when I started
writing my book a couple ofyears ago and still going strong
years ago and still goingstrong.
Cassandra (06:23):
Well, michelle, what so when you were growing up,
tell us a little bit about that.
Why?
Why the Bible?
Why the scripture?
Why something in yourbackground or something inspired
you to focus on the word of God.
What was that?
Michelle (06:50):
focus on the word of God.
What was that?
I credit my grandparentsbecause we lived with them.
When I tell I was about, Iguess, three or four, but I was
still very close to them and soI would.
As I was learning to read inschool, I would go climb into
bed with them and they wouldread with me from the Bible.
And my grandfather wasespecially a very curious Bible
(07:12):
reader.
He just found it so fascinatingand he was always so engaging
and I remember one time he waslike okay, you go read the book
of Acts, and I'm going to readthe book of Acts, and then we're
going to come together andwe're going to talk about what
the early church looked like,and then we're going to talk
about how it compares andcontrasts with the way that
churches run today.
And so I mean just those kindsof conversations were happening.
Additionally, I grew up in achurch where I, through Bible
(07:36):
quiz, we would memorize wholebooks of the Bible in the King
James version and then quiz onit.
And so I will tell you that Iwish I was more admirable in my
goals around scripture in thatseason of my life, but all I
really wanted to do was beatBrian Schneider, but it didn't
matter because I was hidingGod's word in my heart.
So I was memorizing and we werequizzing, and so I just
(07:59):
remember thinking, when I grewinto an adult I had just this
wealth of scripture knowledgebecause of those things, because
of reading with my grandparentsand Bible quiz and some of the
experiences that other peoplejust didn't have.
But I just I wanted to be ableto transfer that to others,
recognizing that they didn'thave Papa, you know, quizzing
(08:22):
them on the book of Acts andthey didn't have Bible quiz.
And so what?
What could I do to kind oftransfer that knowledge and also
recognize that it was justconsistent interaction with
God's word over time that led tojust a greater understanding of
what it says where it says it,that kind of thing.
Cassandra (08:42):
So are you saying your dreams and aspirations?
And growing up you knew it hadto do with the word of God or
something in that genre.
Michelle (08:57):
Yeah, so I did go to Bible college my first year of
schooling, thinking I was goingto be a foreign missionary and I
ended up transferring.
Interestingly enough, mygrandfather got sick and he by
this time I grew up in Idaho,but by this time they were in
Louisiana.
That's where my heritage, myfamily is from and so I moved to
(09:22):
Louisiana and I changed mymajor, went to a public
university, changed my major tomarketing and business, and so,
interestingly enough, it waslike my marketing and my
business and things like thatthat I wanted to do
professionally.
But so, like in my new novel,the main protagonist is a
(09:45):
marketer.
Right, you know, you write whatyou know.
And I'm.
My daughter asked me you know,are you ever sad that you don't
do foreign missions?
And I asked her.
I said, well, define what youthink foreign missions is,
because I have listeners fromall over the world that listen
to my podcast.
And then I've written me fromKorea and New Zealand and
Germany, and I mean just everyin Nebraska, I mean you know
(10:07):
just all over the world thatthat that listen.
And so I it's interesting thatquestion I just always had a
love for the word and I alwayswanted other people to enjoy it
too, and I I know thetransformative power of it.
So if I can get you to um readit, and if I can do it in a way
(10:32):
that you feel confident and thatit is an enjoyable process,
then I know that the Lord isgoing to do the rest.
The Holy spirit is going tomeet you in it.
You're going to um.
It's all about him.
You're going to get to knowthis God for who he says he is,
and that is transformative.
Um, he is transformative and heuses his word to do it.
Cassandra (10:53):
Right now, you.
Now this is.
You didn't say this because I,I know you, you know we don't
usually brag on ourselves, butis it true that you've done over
500 podcasts?
Yeah, yeah.
Michelle (11:10):
So what happens is when you say to yourself and to
your listeners I'm going to dothis and I'm going to do this
every week.
I'm sure you know this right,because there's a commitment,
but there's something thathappens.
So it was a desire of my heartto do this.
I felt like I had a good model,a good template of what I was
going to do.
Pick a song, go study scripture.
Cassandra (11:31):
Boom.
Michelle (11:31):
Let's do this every week, um, and I just told my
listeners that I was going to doit every week, and so I wanted
to stay true to my word, and soI just week in and week out I
would do it, and so I did, alongthe way, get challenged.
A friend of mine said you know,you can take a break.
(11:52):
There is such a thing as asabbatical.
So there are.
Maybe there was a two or threemonth period where I did replace
, but by then I had severalhundred podcast episodes so.
I mean, you know it even if youhad listened to it, it was.
It's okay you can hear it again, and so there's a few replays.
But yes, I'm on 512 this week,yeah.
Cassandra (12:15):
Wow, that your way.
Now, it took you a while towrite your book.
Yeah, what was that experiencelike?
Because, like you said, you hadsome maybe limiting beliefs.
(12:40):
What in the Bible or thescripture motivated or inspired
you to say, okay, I'm going todo this book?
What was it about in the wordof God that helped you with that
?
Michelle (12:57):
So what's interesting is that originally I was going
to write a nonfiction bookbecause I and I really wanted to
start with the authority ofscripture.
So that is a doctrine that saysthat God inspired the words
that are on the page, that itsays.
It says if he wrote it, hewrote it through humans, but
(13:18):
it's his words, um, that it'swithout error, that it's
sufficient and that it's eternal.
And these are just some of theaspects of the authority of
scripture.
And so I started reading bookson the authority of scripture to
kind of, but they were all topshelf, like you know, seminary
style, kind of very academicover the head conversations.
(13:40):
And then I picked up a few thatwould, you know, summarize
those things into a paragraph.
And I was like, well, that'skind of bottom shelf, you know,
that's just really simplifyingthis big concept into something.
How can I show this?
And so I was thinking, well, Iread a lot of business books and
some of them that I thoughtwere most interesting were half
(14:01):
and half.
So it would like tell a story,almost like a parable, and then
the second half would point backto the story but teach at the
nonfiction.
So I was like that's what I'mgoing to do.
I'm going to write a half andhalf.
Cassandra (14:12):
And.
Michelle (14:13):
I had an agent look at me and say you got to pick a
lane, there's no bookshelf inthe library or the bookstore.
That's for half and halves.
And I was like, well, okay.
Another thing I knew about thehalf and halves and I was like,
well, okay.
Another thing I knew about thehalf and halves that I had read
were the story themselves were alittle bit lacking, you know,
(14:35):
because they were so focused ontrying to teach this nonfiction
idea, the story kind of fellflat and it was really more of a
prop.
And I didn't.
I didn't want a prop, I wantedsomething that was, you know,
worth reading, and so I wrotewhat I thought, you know, was a
good start 76,000 words.
And then I sought out adevelopmental editor and I
(14:59):
interviewed a couple ofdifferent ones which, by the way
, if you're going to write abook, this is an expense you do
not have to go with the veryfirst person you talk to.
I actually talked to threedifferent editors over time.
I could have done more.
The two that I ended up reallyinterviewing would have both
been fantastic.
They were both aligned withwhat I was trying to accomplish,
but I'm really, really happywith my editor.
(15:23):
He ended up becoming my bookcoach first because he asked me
some key questions and he didn'teven read the 76,000 words.
Cassandra (15:32):
I'm a little hurt still about it, but he was just
like he just asked a fewquestions and.
Michelle (15:37):
I gave him my answers and he's like, yeah, it sounds
like you have about 14,000 wordsworth of story there.
And I was like, oh, okay.
And so he's like, let's, let'sgo back and kind of go back to
the drawing board.
And I had the characters, I hadthe overall, I knew exactly
where I wanted to go, rememberthis big idea of the authority
of scripture.
And in the story I wanted tosay if we believe that God's
(16:01):
word is inspired by God, whydon't we read it?
That's, you know, like you'resaying, I want to hear from God.
And he's like yeah, and I'mtalking and you're not, you're
not listening, and so, um,anyway, I uh we went back to the
drawing board and he helped medevelop an outline and then I
(16:22):
rewrote from there.
So I would say that part ofthat process was a lot faster.
So it was two years fromslogging through trying to learn
how to write a fiction story,because, you have to understand,
I'm a nonfiction teacher.
I didn't know anything and allthe classes I took, all the
podcasts I listened to,everything was on theology or
nonfiction.
(16:43):
You know, it wasn't about howto write a fiction story.
So I read a lot of craft booksand I, you know, it wasn't about
how to write a fiction story,right.
So I read a lot of craft booksand I, you know, listened to,
watched a lot of videos, and sothat's kind of, I would say
there was a little bit ofteaching, learning and writing
all going on at the same time.
When I finally got this outline.
Interestingly enough, the thecommitment that it took for me
(17:04):
to keep podcasting and week out.
It's that same vein ofcommitment that you have to to
get up and commit to writing.
And so, um, he challenged me towrite 5,000 words a week, which
, in my uh, the way my week wasset up, I was like, okay, a
thousand words a day for fivedays, because I really wanted
(17:25):
you know weekends with my, myfamily and stuff like that.
And so I said okay, and he wouldcheck in.
You know, like every four weeks.
I mean, I could email him, butI, I wanted to.
You know, in those four weeks,say, I wrote 20,000 words.
You know what I'm saying.
Like I wanted, I, I, soaccountability was huge.
(17:46):
But that commitment to myselfand to to what, what I knew was
my goal and to what I knew thatthe Lord was calling me to, so,
week in and week out, day in andday out, got up and wrote a
thousand words and so, um, thefinal book is over a hundred
thousand words.
So you can kind of do the math.
But that's kind of how long ittook me to write that part Once.
(18:09):
I was, um, once I had a goodkind of outline of where I was
going, so that I told a reallygood story, so that when you
pick it up, you're, you getengaged with the characters and
you want to read all the way tothe end.
Um so that I earned the rightto talk to you about what I
really wanted to talk to youabout, which is, if you believe
that God's word is his word, whydon't you read it and,
(18:30):
hopefully, inspire you along theway, to do just that?
Cassandra (18:34):
Wow, wow, that's brilliant, that's brilliant.
So that's why I say, you know,the title is Transformational
Power of Persistence Over Timeand I want to talk about, you
know, as the name of the podcastis, is your Way, in your Way.
(18:57):
A lot of it has to do with thelimiting beliefs, overcoming
limiting beliefs, and your storyconveys persistence and
determination.
So what role does scriptureplay in breaking those personal
barriers?
Michelle (19:18):
Yeah, it becomes the standard of truth.
So one of the things that Irecognize in the world today is
that there's a lot of voices.
My kids are big fans ofBroadway.
One of my favorite Broadwaymusicals is my Fair Lady, and
there's this scene whereProfessor Higgins is talking
(19:40):
about how he will never let awoman in his life and he goes
running around the room and hehas all these.
He's a language person and sohe has all these gramophones
with recordings of people and heturns them on and he speeds
them up and it sounds likechipmunks and chaos and just,
you know, just like noise voices, and I feel like that's what's
happening in the world today.
(20:02):
And I feel like that's what'shappening in the world today.
So my daughter has a youngmother, a friend who's a young
mother, and she um has aparenting problem.
So she goes on a blog and shereads a blog and she says that's
, that's a good solution to this, to this problem.
And then she hops on Instagramand somebody says something very
(20:23):
different, which is alsodifferent than the, than what
her friend tried, which is alsodifferent than what her mom did.
And the thing is is that she'snot trying to pick out an iron.
She's raising a human you know,so we've got these like really
important things in our livesthat we're seeking answers to
and we're seeking direction for,and all of these voices are
(20:45):
coming at us, direction for, andall of these voices are coming
at us and God.
It's interesting becausethere's a line in that song from
that Broadway musical that saysum, she will ask you for advice
.
Your reply will be concise, shewill listen very nicely, then
go out and do precisely what shewants.
And I think sometimes that Godis saying that's you, you know.
You ask me for advice.
(21:06):
My reply is concise, it's in myword you listen very nicely and
you go out and do preciselywhat you want.
And he's calling us back tothink the way he thinks.
And so what role does scriptureplay?
Everything, because it becomesthe standard of truth by which I
measure all of the other voices.
(21:26):
It becomes the standard oftruth by which I measure all of
the other voices.
So some of the voices that youare listening to are wise and
good and should be applied, butthey have to come under this
standard of truth.
They need to be measuredagainst what God says is true,
and then you can apply them.
Similarly, though, there alsois an opportunity where there
(21:48):
may be multiple voices, wherethere's no right or wrong in
this scenario.
So let's go back to my bookwriting process.
I hired a book coach and hetells me I loved working with
you because you asked my adviceand then you took it.
And I said, well, isn't thatwhy I hired you?
And he was like, yeah, butyou'd be amazed.
(22:10):
People hire me all the time formy advice and then they don't
take it, and so, but one thinghe said was stop reading all of
the craft books.
It was a good thing for you toget to this place but they're
going to confuse you at thispoint because they may say
things differently.
We're all leaning towards thesame direction, so just listen
(22:32):
to my voice and let's get to theend goal.
And he led me there and I wasnot as confused by trying to
incorporate this voice and thisvoice and this voice.
And that's kind of what we tryto do in our world today, rather
than just really number one Ifound a guide that I evaluated
and I measured, and I measuredagainst God's word, because I
(22:54):
wanted a Christian that wouldgive me wise counsel and would
pray with me and pray for me andfor my book and all that.
So that was part of one of thethings I wanted.
And once I chose that voice, Ifollowed him and I continued you
know, if now his was in a craftright?
So I mean it's not like I cango look up a scripture that says
should I have, should myantagonist be?
(23:15):
That mean I mean no one's goingto say that in the Bible.
But he was.
He was a wise guide and Ifollowed him and it got me to my
goal.
And I think sometimes.
Number one there's so manyvoices and we don't know how to
measure them.
Number two even when we do knowhow to measure them, we try to
follow three and four all atonce and it's just causing chaos
(23:36):
in our lives.
And so I think part of thatpersistence over time is to
remain focused.
What did I do in my podcast?
It was a solo show.
I have done the same thing for500 episodes I made a template.
Is that keeping me from beingcreative?
Absolutely not.
It's giving me the guardrailsthat I needed to be able to
(23:58):
consistently, over time, buildan audience.
And when you listen to mypodcast, you know what you're
going to get, because it's beenthe same since 2014.
Right, so it's not the same,you know.
Cassandra (24:10):
Yeah, so Michelle, your book coach was he a
Christian?
Michelle (24:15):
He is a Christian, yes , ok, ok.
Cassandra (24:18):
So what?
What about individuals thatlike saying you know, I want to
change jobs, I want to start myown business.
I need to get out of thisrelationship because I know it's
not working for me.
I want to start a podcast, Iwant to write a book, and those
(24:43):
voices like you're saying it'slike oh, you can't write a book,
oh, you're not smart enough todo that, oh, you don't have the
money to do that.
What so?
Where?
When individuals like mylisteners are contemplating or
they want to do this but theycan't, where would you suggest
(25:04):
or provide some insight on wherethey will?
They should start in the word,or or should they?
Should they listen to yourpodcast?
What do you think they shoulddo first?
Michelle (25:18):
Okay, well, first I would say start, because I would
guess there are many listenersout there who, for whatever
reason, have set their Bibleaside, and I totally get it.
And I think that if somebodywould have asked like the main
protagonist in my book has donethe same thing and there was a
loving Christian guide that saidwhen was the last time you read
(25:39):
it and why did you set it aside, that's a valid it's a valid
just come into terms with whathappened, then pick it up and
start.
Then, instead of looking foryourself in scripture, start
with God.
So if you want to pick up inthe Psalms and you say I'm going
(26:01):
to read this Psalm becausethey're easy, they're easier to
read because they're one chapterand you can like read from
beginning to end and it's allinclusive and all that, rather
than looking for yourself inthat Psalm, look for God.
What do I?
Cassandra (26:13):
learn about him.
Michelle (26:14):
His?
Did I?
Do I learn that he'scompassionate and that he's
gracious?
And do I believe that?
Have I lived my life believingthat God is compassionate and
gracious so that I can begin totransform what I think about him
, so that, as I attune to hisspirit and ask him to lead me, I
(26:36):
can trust him?
And he is trustworthy and I cantell you that.
But what would happen if hetold you that?
What would happen if, when youpick it up, he tells you I'm
trustworthy and faithful, I'munchanging this chaos that
you're experiencing in thisrelationship over here?
(26:57):
That's not me.
I'm unchanging, I'm stable, I'mconstant.
I'm constant.
You pick up a New Testamentletter and you read it from
beginning to end, because howsilly is it to read a letter, a
sentence out of the middle of aletter and try to get
inspiration right.
It's a letter, so read it fromthe beginning to the end.
Think about who was thisaudience, what do you think's
(27:19):
going on with the originalaudience, why was he writing
this letter and what do I learnabout God?
Through the course of thisreading.
So start with God.
Start with scripture, like pickit up and start to read it and
while you're reading it, stoplooking for yourself self.
Start looking for God and lethim begin to transform the way
you think about him, which willtransform the way you respond to
(27:41):
what he's calling you to do.
Cassandra (27:43):
Okay, okay.
So it doesn't matter whatchapter you read, if you start
with the old or do you startwith the new.
Just pick the.
You just pick the book up andyou know, for individuals, that
you know your faith wavers.
Sometimes you got even deeperinto it.
(28:05):
What caused the deepness?
Like you know, it's kind oflike when we're in trouble and
things are crazy, then you knowwe'll pick it up, then you know
that's where consistency is notthere.
You know, and you talked aboutthe commitment, you got to be
(28:27):
committed to do it.
And I and I talk a lot of peoplesays, well, I'm not sure if God
wants me to do this or do that.
And I give you an example Irecall there was a job opening
and and where I was working, andI was like I don't know if God
(28:50):
wants me to do this.
And I went to my dad and I waslike, dad, I don't know if this
is something that God wants meto do.
And he said he said, well, Ithink if you interviewed and if
that's something he doesn't wantyou to do, then you won't get
it.
And I'm like, oh, ok, you knowit was.
He's so logical, it was likesimple as that I'm contemplating
(29:12):
on whether I should interviewwith, he said just do it, you
know, and if that's not what Godhas for you, then you won't get
it.
And I and I just hearindividuals Christians saying
I'm not sure, I'm not sure if Ishould do this, I'm not sure.
So what you're saying is, aslong as you get into the word
(29:32):
and see God not put yourself inthere, the word, it will be
revealed.
Michelle (29:38):
Yeah, you know, I think, specifically, I love the
advice of when you're coming upagainst decisions, which one
leads to greater holiness is agood question to ask.
That's a good one.
Another one sometimes it's likewhat you're saying where the
opportunity itself is neutral.
You know what I'm saying.
(29:59):
Like you know that the job isnot asking you to sin in any
overt way, then you know what Imean.
Like, so you're going tomeasure it against the truth of
scripture.
The decision that you have, isthis going to take you away from
your family that you havecommitted to raising?
You know, is it going to takeyou out of commitments that
(30:19):
you've already made before God?
Right, would it?
Would it affect your marriage?
Would it pull you away from aspouse that you've already
entered into a covenantrelationship with?
Then that's not going to leadto greater holiness.
But sometimes you've got theseI mean in the example I gave,
like which guide?
You know, which craft do Ifollow to write my book?
Well, I could have done eitherone, as long as I've committed
(30:43):
to it.
The key, another key so you,we've already talked about
commitment.
The other key is, uh, and I'vementioned it, accountability.
So I had a book coach and I hadsomeone who said all right,
look, we're going to agreetogether that this is your goal.
He didn't.
It wasn't his, it was my goal.
I went with it.
I went to him with this goaland he, within his expertise,
(31:05):
said here's how you canaccomplish it.
It's going to stretch you, butit's not impossible.
Do this and I.
And so I follow that.
And then I was held accountable.
Like I said, at the end ofevery four weeks, I wanted to
make sure I feel accountable tomy listeners.
You know, I feel like, um, acouple of weeks ago, I came out
with my podcast on a Tuesday.
It just happened.
It hardly ever happens.
(31:26):
I'm a Monday.
I released my podcast on Mondayand, no, like the sky did not
fall, but I have this sense ofaccountability to them, even
though I really can't see them.
Many of them email me andthings like that.
The third aspect is community.
So where did it go deeper, whenI could get in it and get fired
(31:47):
up about it and then have aconversation with you about it?
And then you go oh my gosh,yeah, I saw that too, or I've
never seen that before, or youknow, uh, so I, uh, my my
youngest homeschools and she's asenior in high school this year
and I'm her Bible teacher.
Everything else she's prettymuch doing online through dual
enrollment things like that, uh.
But I said, okay, I'm going tobe your Bible teacher and so
(32:08):
we're reading through Hebrewsand we were reading in chapter
five or six or whatever, and shegoes.
You know what this makes methink of?
This makes me think of thisother verse that I read the
other day in first Corinthiansand she flipped over and she was
like mom, I just like followedmy own, my first cross reference
.
Like in my own head Iremembered that something was
(32:31):
over here that connected to overhere and we talk about it all
the time and we've got studyhelps that show us how.
But the Lord showed her.
It happened to her.
And what makes me go deeperHaving experiences like that?
What if?
you're just sitting aroundvisiting with friends about what
the?
Lord has shown you in his word.
Did you know that his thoughtsare higher than our thoughts and
(32:54):
his ways are higher than ourways?
Did you know that he I had anew believer one time was like.
I just read in Jeremiah that hehas plans for me and a hope for
my future.
And it was her first time seeingit for herself, and it wasn't
somebody else standing on astage telling her, although
there's value in that, um, youknow, and so you might say okay,
(33:17):
but the Bible is a big book,I'm still very intimidated.
I don't know where to start.
Um, if you go to church, go,think about what verse your
pastor used on Sunday.
My pastor was in Acts, so ifyou don't have nowhere else to
go, go to Acts, chapter 17,right there and see what happens
.
Um, if you have't have nowhereelse to go, go to Acts, chapter
17 and start reading right thereand see what happens.
If you have a devotional thatyou like, usually at the top
(33:38):
there'll be like a verse.
Don't just read that one verse.
Go read the chapter before thechapter and the chapter after
where that verse is, and againseek the Lord's face before you
seek his hand.
Where you seek his hand.
Right and when doing that, shareit with a friend, because that
will bond you together andcreate this excitement and
(34:00):
interest.
Yeah, my daughter goes to.
My oldest daughter goes toTulane University and we joke
sort of that.
It's like Sodom and Gomorrah.
It's in New Orleans and it is avery dark city and a very dark
place and it's a very darkcampus.
Christians are not welcomethere.
(34:26):
But I went and did a talk withshe's got a group of young
college girls in this collegeministry they call it Abide,
which I love, and I show up on aWednesday night to 20 girls
with Bibles, 20 girls withBibles in their laps on a campus
that is not known for Christianinfluence, and they're studying
(34:49):
the word and they're talkingabout the word.
And that's not the only nightthey meet.
They were talking about okay,well, um, so next wednesday
we're going to meet again.
But don't forget to meet withyour small groups.
They meet with small groups inbetween and they have like
coordinated quiet times wherethey just kind of show up to
each other's houses for a coupleof hours every week.
(35:09):
I was so inspired by theseyoung women who are, I mean, and
they're studying to be doctorsand lawyers and I mean we don't.
They have this full plate of ofvery rigorous academics and
they're equaling their time inGod's word with their time in
(35:29):
biomedicine and it's justinspiring.
That's what happens when you arein community, so don't do it
alone.
Accountability is a littledifferent.
You can often getaccountability in community.
Accountability is a little bitdifferent.
You're giving that person kindof permission to have a little
bit of authority over a goalthat you have agreed to.
But community is so, soimportant to reinforce that
(35:54):
commitment that you've made.
Cassandra (35:56):
Right, right, that's amazing.
I remember this.
You reminded me of a time whenI was in a dark place and I was
very I was.
I called it.
I was just sold out to the Lord.
I was just sold out to the Lordand I asked the question to him
are you, have you ever you knownew, new in Christ?
(36:18):
Have you ever like been down ordepressed or downtrodden or
whatever?
Blah, blah, blah.
And the next day, when I wasreading my devotion, I saw no, I
was reading the word and I justhappened to the spirit, just
happened to have me come to thethree thing Would you take this
(36:39):
cup away from me?
Okay, and the and the and his,his, his boys, I call it, it was
sleep.
He went back and he said wouldyou please take this?
Can you take this cup for me?
And that to me was like oh mygosh, he was showing me that he
was down.
You know that it's OK.
You know that he was upset withhis, with the disciples,
(37:03):
because they wouldn't stay upwith him and all of that.
So it's kind of like I said inmy book if you want to know, if
you want to know the Lord, ifyou want to have a relationship
with him.
You can, and he knows that, youknow, so he will reveal.
Should I be in thisrelationship, should I do this
(37:24):
job?
Just things will come up, butyou have to trust him and be
committed to it.
Michelle (37:30):
Yeah, and he, you know the thing is is that he's
promised to be with us.
He is ever present.
He doesn't sleep, he's not.
He's not disappointed in you.
He wants you to turn your faceand and and sometimes turn your
direction away from sin.
(37:51):
He's never going to like sinright, so he's never going to
want you to walk in sin.
So that's what I've said.
I mean, if this decision, ifone leads to greater holiness,
always go toward that decision.
Sometimes it's very black andwhite.
He's like, no, this is notconsistent with my character and
(38:12):
this decision will lead you toa very bad place.
You know there are certainthings that are in God's word.
Lord, should I stay in thismarriage?
Yes, you know.
I mean, obviously we know thatthere are reasons for divorce
that are outlined in scripture,but the majority of the time
when you're asking that question, that's not the reasons that's
(38:33):
going on in your life.
You're um, you're wrestling withsome other things, and so a lot
of times, um, yes, we want hisguidance, uh, except we want his
answer to be what we want it tobe.
And so why would you need God?
Then, like, you're just makingyourself into your own God and
you have to know that he is whohe says he is and he is all
(38:58):
powerful.
And that Red Sea that's likeall bubbly over there and the
thing barreling behind you,that's nothing to him.
He can split it and let you walkacross on dry ground and drown
the enemies in your verypresence.
But, you have to trust him.
I mean, if you, if you go backto Exodus right before the
people were flipping out, theyare like you led us to the side
(39:24):
of this sea and I can hear thehorses whinnying.
You know what God said Chillout, be calm, be still and no,
you know, just be still.
Just be still, and so he's likeI get it.
I know that you're in thisturmoil, but I am also a great
(39:48):
and mighty God.
I am who I am, and mighty God,I am who I am, and so I think
that as we turn our eyes awayfrom ourselves I've heard it
called navel gazing where you'rejust kind of so bent over and
looking at yourself and you alsoput your blinders on so that
(40:12):
the circumstances of your lifeare not defining for you who God
is, and you go into his wordand you look for him.
You will find him, and then hewill remind you that he is with
you.
And I'm not trying to diminishthe very, very difficult
decisions that your listenersare facing.
I just I do want to challenge,though, if you know that you
know that this message was foryou he is calling you to himself
(40:36):
.
He is saying enough is enough,turn toward me, fix your eyes on
you.
Know it says uh, fix your eyeson the author and finisher of
your faith.
Look at me, look at me, fixyour eyes on me, and we're going
to get through this together.
And then it also says to shedthe sin that so easily entangles
us.
So we start to drop off the sinthat we, that we get tripped up
(41:00):
in we keep our eyes fixed onJesus and we run our race, that
he's set before us and he'sgoing to be with us.
He's going to be cheering us.
On One of the questions thatyou know, people ask well, how
did?
How did you write the?
What was the creative processof writing the book?
And I know some non-believersare like going to roll their
eyes at this, but I would go onwalks and I would say, okay,
lord, this is the scene we'rewriting today.
What should I write?
(41:22):
And sometimes I literally feltlike he said I don't know.
What do you think?
Cassandra (41:27):
Yeah.
Michelle (41:28):
And it was such a beautiful process to do it with
him.
I'm not doing it for him.
I'm not doing it to impress him.
It was something that we didtogether.
It was something that I did,that he never left me.
He inspired me.
I a hundred percent believethat.
I mean, someone would say howdid you even think to come up
(41:48):
with whatever, whatever?
And I'm like, I don't know.
It's just me, and God you know,just walking down this creative
path and um, and yet he's inall of it you know, I love that.
Cassandra (42:00):
I love that.
It's like um the seat at thetable right your book.
It's like is that about likesitting at the table with God,
even though it's it's fiction?
Michelle (42:11):
yeah, so, interestingly enough, it's like
got this like double entendrekind of thing, because joy wants
a seat at the table, she likein the in, like a corporate
sense she wants her voice to beheard and she wants success and
whatever.
But she learns throughout thecourse of the story um, what
kind of table she wants to sitat is really Christ's table.
(42:33):
We are seated with Christ inthe heavenly places, scripture
tells us.
And so there's there's a lot ofbeautiful table imagery in
scripture.
So I actually have been workingon a Bible study to kind of go
along inspired by the book, kindof like I sometimes do my
podcast inspired by the song.
I'm doing some Bible studiesinspired by the book and it's
(42:54):
just such a it is yes, it's gotthis.
This idea of the world thinks aseat at the table means this.
And God says a seat at thetable means him.
Cassandra (43:04):
Yes.
Michelle (43:06):
He is like all the way back in the old Testament, the
table of the bread of presence.
It's to be with him, it's to be, it's him, it is him, and so
yeah, michelle girl.
Cassandra (43:21):
That is great, I know .
I know you spoke to my heartand if you spoke to my heart,
you were speaking to a whole lotof other people.
And one of the things you saidthat the women you work with at
the leadership college and howthe podcasting weekly changes
(43:41):
them changes you.
So just saying, if my listenersstart listening and committed
and persistent, it will changethem.
Michelle (43:57):
Oh, yeah, for sure.
I did a conference recently, awomen's conference, and it was
really sweet because one of mylisteners actually made it all
happen and she said she's beenlistening since 2017 and that
it's by incorporating some ofthe practical things that I
teach on the podcast it hastransformed her ability to
(44:19):
interact with God's word andthen, ultimately, just her
relationship with the Lord andwith his people.
And I'm just a vessel, you know, and the bites that I share are
just, I tell people, I didn'tcreate them, I curate them.
You know, I have goodconversations with people all
the time and I that sounds funand I incorporate it into my own
Bible study time and um, but,yes, it is transformative
(44:41):
because, because God is sointeresting I was.
I've been thinking a lot aboutthis, because my most recent
podcast was on the unchangingnature of God, his immutability
and how that's a characteristicthat's true only of him.
We are not unchanging, right,and so, uh, in fact, we are
constantly changing.
In fact, we're designed tochange, to grow more like him.
(45:05):
We are called to um, to shed,uh, the old nature and put on
the new nature, and we arecalled to continue to be.
We are sanctified and continueto be sanctified.
So we're constantly changingand growing.
So this thing that we loveabout God him being unchanging
gives us that kind of thatfoundation and that settledness
(45:30):
to be able to grow, to try thatjob, to write that book and just
see what happens.
You know, I just think the worlddoesn't end if the job, if you
picked the wrong job, becauseGod's not going anywhere, he's
not saying well, you picked thewrong job, I'm out.
That's not his nature, that'snot who he is, he's going to be
there, right there with you, andthe very place that you think
(45:54):
might be the wrong place.
I mean Emily at the beginningthought Tulane after the first
semester.
She's like I just, I just wantout, I want to, I want to go to
LSU where it's more, where it'seasier to be a Christian, and
God was like Nope, I actuallyhave you here For a reason and
she can now see just why, whyyou know so sometimes we make
(46:16):
decisions and think it's wrong,just because it's hard, like no,
actually.
Um, I'm leading you down thispath of endurance that leads to
character, and character leadsto hope.
Cassandra (46:26):
And right point, yeah um, before I, I Before I have
you to give where individualscan follow you on your podcast,
I'd like for you to share withthe listeners who are lukewarm.
They've given their life overto the Lord, but they're not in
(46:47):
a place where they believe theyshould be.
You know, it's like you know,as God says, I'll spear you out.
You know you can't figure outwhich way you want to go, but
there are listeners that arelukewarm.
You know, and knowing and beenwhat I would call had taken a
(47:09):
deep dive before with God andknow the things that he has done
and can do, but they just can'tseem to get back there.
Could you speak to thoselisteners that are dealing with
that?
Michelle (47:22):
Yeah, first of all, I just want to tell you that he's
calling you home, he's callingyou back.
This is, if you are lukewarmand you are feeling that right
now, it's because he is drawingyou.
And I also know that withChrist there is no condemnation.
So if you are hearing voices ofshame, if you are hearing a
(47:45):
voice of guilt, that's not thefather's voice, and so my
question back to you is whosevoice is it?
Because we have an enemy whodoes not want you to rest in the
hope and the peace that youhave in Christ.
He wants to draw you away fromthat.
(48:07):
And so I would say, um, you arenot too far gone, he is calling
you back.
I would say start withscripture.
I would say connect withcommunity.
You know that person that youcan call right now and you can
say I just need to confess toyou that I want to want God more
(48:28):
, and will you pray with me?
You have a person.
If you are lukewarm like that,you probably have a person, I
don't care how far back in thedistance, and I will tell you
this right now if that person isworth their salt, they are a
follower of Christ.
They will be so grateful topray with you.
I encourage my listeners.
I just say my prayer for you isthat God will give you an
(48:51):
unreasonable desire for his wordthat will lead to an
unsurpassable relationship withhim.
I truly believe and I do wantto encourage you to go pick up
the pages of his word and bereminded maybe not like
Leviticus.
Do you know what I'm saying?
There's a few places that mightnot be as helpful, but just be
(49:12):
reminded, he's there, it's hisstory and everything points.
I have this children's Biblethat says every story whispers
his name.
All the stories through the Oldand New Testament are pointing
to Jesus, who is the way, thetruth and the life, and so I
love the title of your podcastand your book.
(49:32):
Is your way, getting in, your,in your way?
I will tell you it's.
If you go, if you look to theway, I think, a lot of these,
the angst that you're feeling,will fall to the wayside.
And he's not standing injudgment of you, he's.
He's like the father, pickingup his, his skirts and running
(49:55):
to the father saying I, I,you've returned.
That's, that's the father,that's that's right.
Cassandra (50:02):
That's beautiful, michelle.
Thank you so much.
Would you please tell mylisteners how can they connect
with you on your podcast or evenget in touch with you?
Michelle (50:14):
Yeah, yeah.
So I actually created this page.
I just want to thank you forletting me be on here so that
your listeners can hear my story, and so I created a couple of
freebies for them, and so if yougo to Michelle knees at dot com
, forward slash, unlock it willunlock.
Forward slash, unlock, it willunlock.
(50:36):
And I have a link to my podcast, a link to my book, and then
like four or five freebies thatI've listed out there ways that
they can engage both with someof the Bible studies I've
written and also some resourcesaround the book, and then links
to other podcasts that I've beenon on this podcast tour.
So thank you so much, cassandra, for having me on here.
So it's michellekneesatcomforward slash, unlock.
Cassandra (50:58):
Okay, okay.
Well, michelle, as I always sayto my listeners and to my
guests, I say bye for now andGod bless you.
And in the event that I know, Ijust know within my spirit that
this podcast has been ablessing and I ask my listeners
(51:19):
to please share it with someonewhere you know that this will be
the beginning of a life changeand also just know that this
podcast will be played on allpodcast platforms.
So again, michelle, I thank you, god bless you and bye for now.
Good day out there to all my listeners and I'd like
to welcome you back to Is yourWay In your Way, and, yes, I'm
your host, cassandraCrawley-Mayo, and I have a
question for you.
Have you ever felt like you'redoing all the right things
reading your Bible, settinggoals, starting new habits but
(00:23):
you still feel liketransformation is just sort of
out of your reach?
You know, it's kind of like thename of the podcast Is your way
in your way.
There's certain things you wantto accomplish, but you just
can't seem to do it.
Well, what if I told you thatthe key isn't in doing more, but
(00:44):
in doing it consistently overtime, and I have a special guest
that's going to talk about that, but also so my new listeners
out there, we are talking abouttopics related to personal
improvement, personaldevelopment, and some is
(01:04):
business improvement andbusiness development as well,
and our topic today is titledthe transformational power of
persistence over time.
And I am going to take a deepdive into this persistent power
over time with my incredible,incredible guest by the name of
(01:29):
Michelle Nazat, and I meant toask Michelle to pronounce her
last name for me, and I forgotto do that.
Michelle (01:37):
No, you did great.
So here in the town that I livein it's NAZAT.
But when my grandfather or myhusband's father went to the
Navy they were like, no, that's,you know too French sounding,
we're going to say NEZAT.
So I say NEZAT, like where areyour knees at.
But it's funny because in townthey would call me NAZAT.
So you actually did it right,okay good, Excellent, Excellent.
Cassandra (02:01):
So this is what I want to do for my listeners,
Michelle.
I just want to read a littlebit about who you are so they
will understand what, why youare qualified to talk about what
we're going to talk about Now.
(02:26):
Michelle is a Christian fictionauthor and Bible teacher who
has spent over a decade helpingpeople engage with scripture in
a meaningful way.
Through her podcast More Than aSong.
She's inspired thousands,thousands, to go beyond just
reading the Bible to trulyliving it.
She is going to talk about whatI call sharing powerful
insights on how small,consistent steps in faith can
(02:52):
lead to radical transformation,whether in your spiritual life,
your personal growth or evenyour creative calling.
So if you've ever struggled withsticking to something, a
commitment, a wonder if yourpersistence will ever pay off.
This conversation is going toencourage and equip you.
(03:12):
So sit back.
If you're driving, please keepyour eyes on the road.
If you're just sitting downlistening, you know, get a cup
of tea and settle in and let'sget started on this awesome
conversation.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, Michelle, tell us, tellthe audience about your
backstory.
Michelle (03:32):
Yeah.
So just what led me here todayis I most recently wrote a
fiction novel and I had beenpodcasting for quite some time,
and I got some advice hey, youknow, get on other people's
podcasts, talk about your book,talk about your journey.
And I actually had thislimiting belief that I couldn't
(03:54):
go on other people's podcastsbecause I was a solo podcaster.
And so I said, oh well, since Idon't, I can't, I don't really
have a format that allows themto come on my podcast, I don't
really have a format that allowsthem to come on my podcast.
I shouldn't be asking to be ontheirs, which is really silly,
because you have a podcast ofinterviewing people and you want
to get to know people and heartheir stories and that's how
(04:14):
your audience learns, and sothat's kind of what got me on
this journey.
But what qualifies me to evenbe here, I guess, is because I
have been podcasting since 2014.
But what qualifies me to evenbe here, I guess, is because I
have been podcasting since 2014.
When I started podcasting, therewere less than 150,000 podcasts
in existence, and in theChristian marketplace, there
(04:36):
were less than 18,000 podcasts,and the majority of those were
pastors.
So, like it would be.
They would basically publishthe sermon, the audios of the
sermon, and call that a podcast.
And so, um, I, yeah, so I uhstarted on the journey of
podcasting because I had a bunchof new believers in my midst
(04:57):
and one of the very first thingsthat, um, people do when they
come to Christ is they changethe music that they're listening
to.
And I was listening toChristian music on the day and I
said, oh man, I wish my friendStacy knew that that song that I
was just listening to came thatthe lyrics come from the book
of James.
Wouldn't it be neat if shecould study the book of James,
hear the song, and it wouldremind her about what she
(05:18):
studied.
I was also.
I wanted to, you know, reallyhelp my kids engage in scripture
and things like that.
So I wanted to, you know,really help my kids engage in
scripture and things like that,and seeing that the power of
music to do that.
So when I went to a marketingconference, I kind of put two
and two together and one of thespeakers was like don't do a
blog, everyone's blogging, ofcourse.
Now, 2025, we could say don't doa podcast, everybody's
(05:40):
podcasting on the ground floor,you know, and so but and it was
just such a unique uh connection.
So basically, my podcast usesChristian music that plays on
the radio and uh in is as alaunching point to dive into
scripture.
And then we kind of leave thesong behind and we dive into
scripture and I help peopleengage uh with the Bible with
(06:03):
through I call them Bibleinteraction tool exercises,
bites, just really practicalways, and so that's kind of what
led me to and I'm continuing topodcast.
I was weekly since 2014 and Iwent biweekly when I started
writing my book a couple ofyears ago and still going strong
years ago and still goingstrong.
Cassandra (06:23):
Well, michelle, what so when you were growing up,
tell us a little bit about that.
Why?
Why the Bible?
Why the scripture?
Why something in yourbackground or something inspired
you to focus on the word of God.
What was that?
Michelle (06:50):
focus on the word of God.
What was that?
I credit my grandparentsbecause we lived with them.
When I tell I was about, Iguess, three or four, but I was
still very close to them and soI would.
As I was learning to read inschool, I would go climb into
bed with them and they wouldread with me from the Bible.
And my grandfather wasespecially a very curious Bible
(07:12):
reader.
He just found it so fascinatingand he was always so engaging
and I remember one time he waslike okay, you go read the book
of Acts, and I'm going to readthe book of Acts, and then we're
going to come together andwe're going to talk about what
the early church looked like,and then we're going to talk
about how it compares andcontrasts with the way that
churches run today.
And so I mean just those kindsof conversations were happening.
Additionally, I grew up in achurch where I, through Bible
(07:36):
quiz, we would memorize wholebooks of the Bible in the King
James version and then quiz onit.
And so I will tell you that Iwish I was more admirable in my
goals around scripture in thatseason of my life, but all I
really wanted to do was beatBrian Schneider, but it didn't
matter because I was hidingGod's word in my heart.
So I was memorizing and we werequizzing, and so I just
(07:59):
remember thinking, when I grewinto an adult I had just this
wealth of scripture knowledgebecause of those things, because
of reading with my grandparentsand Bible quiz and some of the
experiences that other peoplejust didn't have.
But I just I wanted to be ableto transfer that to others,
recognizing that they didn'thave Papa, you know, quizzing
(08:22):
them on the book of Acts andthey didn't have Bible quiz.
And so what?
What could I do to kind oftransfer that knowledge and also
recognize that it was justconsistent interaction with
God's word over time that led tojust a greater understanding of
what it says where it says it,that kind of thing.
Cassandra (08:42):
So are you saying your dreams and aspirations?
And growing up you knew it hadto do with the word of God or
something in that genre.
Michelle (08:57):
Yeah, so I did go to Bible college my first year of
schooling, thinking I was goingto be a foreign missionary and I
ended up transferring.
Interestingly enough, mygrandfather got sick and he by
this time I grew up in Idaho,but by this time they were in
Louisiana.
That's where my heritage, myfamily is from and so I moved to
(09:22):
Louisiana and I changed mymajor, went to a public
university, changed my major tomarketing and business, and so,
interestingly enough, it waslike my marketing and my
business and things like thatthat I wanted to do
professionally.
But so, like in my new novel,the main protagonist is a
(09:45):
marketer.
Right, you know, you write whatyou know.
And I'm.
My daughter asked me you know,are you ever sad that you don't
do foreign missions?
And I asked her.
I said, well, define what youthink foreign missions is,
because I have listeners fromall over the world that listen
to my podcast.
And then I've written me fromKorea and New Zealand and
Germany, and I mean just everyin Nebraska, I mean you know
(10:07):
just all over the world thatthat that listen.
And so I it's interesting thatquestion I just always had a
love for the word and I alwayswanted other people to enjoy it
too, and I I know thetransformative power of it.
So if I can get you to um readit, and if I can do it in a way
(10:32):
that you feel confident and thatit is an enjoyable process,
then I know that the Lord isgoing to do the rest.
The Holy spirit is going tomeet you in it.
You're going to um.
It's all about him.
You're going to get to knowthis God for who he says he is,
and that is transformative.
Um, he is transformative and heuses his word to do it.
Cassandra (10:53):
Right now, you.
Now this is.
You didn't say this because I,I know you, you know we don't
usually brag on ourselves, butis it true that you've done over
500 podcasts?
Yeah, yeah.
Michelle (11:10):
So what happens is when you say to yourself and to
your listeners I'm going to dothis and I'm going to do this
every week.
I'm sure you know this right,because there's a commitment,
but there's something thathappens.
So it was a desire of my heartto do this.
I felt like I had a good model,a good template of what I was
going to do.
Pick a song, go study scripture.
Cassandra (11:31):
Boom.
Michelle (11:31):
Let's do this every week, um, and I just told my
listeners that I was going to doit every week, and so I wanted
to stay true to my word, and soI just week in and week out I
would do it, and so I did, alongthe way, get challenged.
A friend of mine said you know,you can take a break.
(11:52):
There is such a thing as asabbatical.
So there are.
Maybe there was a two or threemonth period where I did replace
, but by then I had severalhundred podcast episodes so.
I mean, you know it even if youhad listened to it, it was.
It's okay you can hear it again, and so there's a few replays.
But yes, I'm on 512 this week,yeah.
Cassandra (12:15):
Wow, that your way.
Now, it took you a while towrite your book.
Yeah, what was that experiencelike?
Because, like you said, you hadsome maybe limiting beliefs.
(12:40):
What in the Bible or thescripture motivated or inspired
you to say, okay, I'm going todo this book?
What was it about in the wordof God that helped you with that
?
Michelle (12:57):
So what's interesting is that originally I was going
to write a nonfiction bookbecause I and I really wanted to
start with the authority ofscripture.
So that is a doctrine that saysthat God inspired the words
that are on the page, that itsays.
It says if he wrote it, hewrote it through humans, but
(13:18):
it's his words, um, that it'swithout error, that it's
sufficient and that it's eternal.
And these are just some of theaspects of the authority of
scripture.
And so I started reading bookson the authority of scripture to
kind of, but they were all topshelf, like you know, seminary
style, kind of very academicover the head conversations.
(13:40):
And then I picked up a few thatwould, you know, summarize
those things into a paragraph.
And I was like, well, that'skind of bottom shelf, you know,
that's just really simplifyingthis big concept into something.
How can I show this?
And so I was thinking, well, Iread a lot of business books and
some of them that I thoughtwere most interesting were half
(14:01):
and half.
So it would like tell a story,almost like a parable, and then
the second half would point backto the story but teach at the
nonfiction.
So I was like that's what I'mgoing to do.
I'm going to write a half andhalf.
Cassandra (14:12):
And.
Michelle (14:13):
I had an agent look at me and say you got to pick a
lane, there's no bookshelf inthe library or the bookstore.
That's for half and halves.
And I was like, well, okay.
Another thing I knew about thehalf and halves and I was like,
well, okay.
Another thing I knew about thehalf and halves that I had read
were the story themselves were alittle bit lacking, you know,
(14:35):
because they were so focused ontrying to teach this nonfiction
idea, the story kind of fellflat and it was really more of a
prop.
And I didn't.
I didn't want a prop, I wantedsomething that was, you know,
worth reading, and so I wrotewhat I thought, you know, was a
good start 76,000 words.
And then I sought out adevelopmental editor and I
(14:59):
interviewed a couple ofdifferent ones which, by the way
, if you're going to write abook, this is an expense you do
not have to go with the veryfirst person you talk to.
I actually talked to threedifferent editors over time.
I could have done more.
The two that I ended up reallyinterviewing would have both
been fantastic.
They were both aligned withwhat I was trying to accomplish,
but I'm really, really happywith my editor.
(15:23):
He ended up becoming my bookcoach first because he asked me
some key questions and he didn'teven read the 76,000 words.
Cassandra (15:32):
I'm a little hurt still about it, but he was just
like he just asked a fewquestions and.
Michelle (15:37):
I gave him my answers and he's like, yeah, it sounds
like you have about 14,000 wordsworth of story there.
And I was like, oh, okay.
And so he's like, let's, let'sgo back and kind of go back to
the drawing board.
And I had the characters, I hadthe overall, I knew exactly
where I wanted to go, rememberthis big idea of the authority
of scripture.
And in the story I wanted tosay if we believe that God's
(16:01):
word is inspired by God, whydon't we read it?
That's, you know, like you'resaying, I want to hear from God.
And he's like yeah, and I'mtalking and you're not, you're
not listening, and so, um,anyway, I uh we went back to the
drawing board and he helped medevelop an outline and then I
(16:22):
rewrote from there.
So I would say that part ofthat process was a lot faster.
So it was two years fromslogging through trying to learn
how to write a fiction story,because, you have to understand,
I'm a nonfiction teacher.
I didn't know anything and allthe classes I took, all the
podcasts I listened to,everything was on theology or
nonfiction.
(16:43):
You know, it wasn't about howto write a fiction story.
So I read a lot of craft booksand I, you know, it wasn't about
how to write a fiction story,right.
So I read a lot of craft booksand I, you know, listened to,
watched a lot of videos, and sothat's kind of, I would say
there was a little bit ofteaching, learning and writing
all going on at the same time.
When I finally got this outline.
Interestingly enough, the thecommitment that it took for me
(17:04):
to keep podcasting and week out.
It's that same vein ofcommitment that you have to to
get up and commit to writing.
And so, um, he challenged me towrite 5,000 words a week, which
, in my uh, the way my week wasset up, I was like, okay, a
thousand words a day for fivedays, because I really wanted
(17:25):
you know weekends with my, myfamily and stuff like that.
And so I said okay, and he wouldcheck in.
You know, like every four weeks.
I mean, I could email him, butI, I wanted to.
You know, in those four weeks,say, I wrote 20,000 words.
You know what I'm saying.
Like I wanted, I, I, soaccountability was huge.
(17:46):
But that commitment to myselfand to to what, what I knew was
my goal and to what I knew thatthe Lord was calling me to, so,
week in and week out, day in andday out, got up and wrote a
thousand words and so, um, thefinal book is over a hundred
thousand words.
So you can kind of do the math.
But that's kind of how long ittook me to write that part Once.
(18:09):
I was, um, once I had a goodkind of outline of where I was
going, so that I told a reallygood story, so that when you
pick it up, you're, you getengaged with the characters and
you want to read all the way tothe end.
Um so that I earned the rightto talk to you about what I
really wanted to talk to youabout, which is, if you believe
that God's word is his word, whydon't you read it and,
(18:30):
hopefully, inspire you along theway, to do just that?
Cassandra (18:34):
Wow, wow, that's brilliant, that's brilliant.
So that's why I say, you know,the title is Transformational
Power of Persistence Over Timeand I want to talk about, you
know, as the name of the podcastis, is your Way, in your Way.
(18:57):
A lot of it has to do with thelimiting beliefs, overcoming
limiting beliefs, and your storyconveys persistence and
determination.
So what role does scriptureplay in breaking those personal
barriers?
Michelle (19:18):
Yeah, it becomes the standard of truth.
So one of the things that Irecognize in the world today is
that there's a lot of voices.
My kids are big fans ofBroadway.
One of my favorite Broadwaymusicals is my Fair Lady, and
there's this scene whereProfessor Higgins is talking
(19:40):
about how he will never let awoman in his life and he goes
running around the room and hehas all these.
He's a language person and sohe has all these gramophones
with recordings of people and heturns them on and he speeds
them up and it sounds likechipmunks and chaos and just,
you know, just like noise voices, and I feel like that's what's
happening in the world today.
(20:02):
And I feel like that's what'shappening in the world today.
So my daughter has a youngmother, a friend who's a young
mother, and she um has aparenting problem.
So she goes on a blog and shereads a blog and she says that's
, that's a good solution to this, to this problem.
And then she hops on Instagramand somebody says something very
(20:23):
different, which is alsodifferent than the, than what
her friend tried, which is alsodifferent than what her mom did.
And the thing is is that she'snot trying to pick out an iron.
She's raising a human you know,so we've got these like really
important things in our livesthat we're seeking answers to
and we're seeking direction for,and all of these voices are
(20:45):
coming at us, direction for, andall of these voices are coming
at us and God.
It's interesting becausethere's a line in that song from
that Broadway musical that saysum, she will ask you for advice
.
Your reply will be concise, shewill listen very nicely, then
go out and do precisely what shewants.
And I think sometimes that Godis saying that's you, you know.
You ask me for advice.
(21:06):
My reply is concise, it's in myword you listen very nicely and
you go out and do preciselywhat you want.
And he's calling us back tothink the way he thinks.
And so what role does scriptureplay?
Everything, because it becomesthe standard of truth by which I
measure all of the other voices.
(21:26):
It becomes the standard oftruth by which I measure all of
the other voices.
So some of the voices that youare listening to are wise and
good and should be applied, butthey have to come under this
standard of truth.
They need to be measuredagainst what God says is true,
and then you can apply them.
Similarly, though, there alsois an opportunity where there
(21:48):
may be multiple voices, wherethere's no right or wrong in
this scenario.
So let's go back to my bookwriting process.
I hired a book coach and hetells me I loved working with
you because you asked my adviceand then you took it.
And I said, well, isn't thatwhy I hired you?
And he was like, yeah, butyou'd be amazed.
(22:10):
People hire me all the time formy advice and then they don't
take it, and so, but one thinghe said was stop reading all of
the craft books.
It was a good thing for you toget to this place but they're
going to confuse you at thispoint because they may say
things differently.
We're all leaning towards thesame direction, so just listen
(22:32):
to my voice and let's get to theend goal.
And he led me there and I wasnot as confused by trying to
incorporate this voice and thisvoice and this voice.
And that's kind of what we tryto do in our world today, rather
than just really number one Ifound a guide that I evaluated
and I measured, and I measuredagainst God's word, because I
(22:54):
wanted a Christian that wouldgive me wise counsel and would
pray with me and pray for me andfor my book and all that.
So that was part of one of thethings I wanted.
And once I chose that voice, Ifollowed him and I continued you
know, if now his was in a craftright?
So I mean it's not like I cango look up a scripture that says
should I have, should myantagonist be?
(23:15):
That mean I mean no one's goingto say that in the Bible.
But he was.
He was a wise guide and Ifollowed him and it got me to my
goal.
And I think sometimes.
Number one there's so manyvoices and we don't know how to
measure them.
Number two even when we do knowhow to measure them, we try to
follow three and four all atonce and it's just causing chaos
(23:36):
in our lives.
And so I think part of thatpersistence over time is to
remain focused.
What did I do in my podcast?
It was a solo show.
I have done the same thing for500 episodes I made a template.
Is that keeping me from beingcreative?
Absolutely not.
It's giving me the guardrailsthat I needed to be able to
(23:58):
consistently, over time, buildan audience.
And when you listen to mypodcast, you know what you're
going to get, because it's beenthe same since 2014.
Right, so it's not the same,you know.
Cassandra (24:10):
Yeah, so Michelle, your book coach was he a
Christian?
Michelle (24:15):
He is a Christian, yes , ok, ok.
Cassandra (24:18):
So what?
What about individuals thatlike saying you know, I want to
change jobs, I want to start myown business.
I need to get out of thisrelationship because I know it's
not working for me.
I want to start a podcast, Iwant to write a book, and those
(24:43):
voices like you're saying it'slike oh, you can't write a book,
oh, you're not smart enough todo that, oh, you don't have the
money to do that.
What so?
Where?
When individuals like mylisteners are contemplating or
they want to do this but theycan't, where would you suggest
(25:04):
or provide some insight on wherethey will?
They should start in the word,or or should they?
Should they listen to yourpodcast?
What do you think they shoulddo first?
Michelle (25:18):
Okay, well, first I would say start, because I would
guess there are many listenersout there who, for whatever
reason, have set their Bibleaside, and I totally get it.
And I think that if somebodywould have asked like the main
protagonist in my book has donethe same thing and there was a
loving Christian guide that saidwhen was the last time you read
(25:39):
it and why did you set it aside, that's a valid it's a valid
just come into terms with whathappened, then pick it up and
start.
Then, instead of looking foryourself in scripture, start
with God.
So if you want to pick up inthe Psalms and you say I'm going
(26:01):
to read this Psalm becausethey're easy, they're easier to
read because they're one chapterand you can like read from
beginning to end and it's allinclusive and all that, rather
than looking for yourself inthat Psalm, look for God.
What do I?
Cassandra (26:13):
learn about him.
Michelle (26:14):
His?
Did I?
Do I learn that he'scompassionate and that he's
gracious?
And do I believe that?
Have I lived my life believingthat God is compassionate and
gracious so that I can begin totransform what I think about him
, so that, as I attune to hisspirit and ask him to lead me, I
(26:36):
can trust him?
And he is trustworthy and I cantell you that.
But what would happen if hetold you that?
What would happen if, when youpick it up, he tells you I'm
trustworthy and faithful, I'munchanging this chaos that
you're experiencing in thisrelationship over here?
(26:57):
That's not me.
I'm unchanging, I'm stable, I'mconstant.
I'm constant.
You pick up a New Testamentletter and you read it from
beginning to end, because howsilly is it to read a letter, a
sentence out of the middle of aletter and try to get
inspiration right.
It's a letter, so read it fromthe beginning to the end.
Think about who was thisaudience, what do you think's
(27:19):
going on with the originalaudience, why was he writing
this letter and what do I learnabout God?
Through the course of thisreading.
So start with God.
Start with scripture, like pickit up and start to read it and
while you're reading it, stoplooking for yourself self.
Start looking for God and lethim begin to transform the way
you think about him, which willtransform the way you respond to
(27:41):
what he's calling you to do.
Cassandra (27:43):
Okay, okay.
So it doesn't matter whatchapter you read, if you start
with the old or do you startwith the new.
Just pick the.
You just pick the book up andyou know, for individuals, that
you know your faith wavers.
Sometimes you got even deeperinto it.
(28:05):
What caused the deepness?
Like you know, it's kind oflike when we're in trouble and
things are crazy, then you knowwe'll pick it up, then you know
that's where consistency is notthere.
You know, and you talked aboutthe commitment, you got to be
(28:27):
committed to do it.
And I and I talk a lot of peoplesays, well, I'm not sure if God
wants me to do this or do that.
And I give you an example Irecall there was a job opening
and and where I was working, andI was like I don't know if God
(28:50):
wants me to do this.
And I went to my dad and I waslike, dad, I don't know if this
is something that God wants meto do.
And he said he said, well, Ithink if you interviewed and if
that's something he doesn't wantyou to do, then you won't get
it.
And I'm like, oh, ok, you knowit was.
He's so logical, it was likesimple as that I'm contemplating
(29:12):
on whether I should interviewwith, he said just do it, you
know, and if that's not what Godhas for you, then you won't get
it.
And I and I just hearindividuals Christians saying
I'm not sure, I'm not sure if Ishould do this, I'm not sure.
So what you're saying is, aslong as you get into the word
(29:32):
and see God not put yourself inthere, the word, it will be
revealed.
Michelle (29:38):
Yeah, you know, I think, specifically, I love the
advice of when you're coming upagainst decisions, which one
leads to greater holiness is agood question to ask.
That's a good one.
Another one sometimes it's likewhat you're saying where the
opportunity itself is neutral.
You know what I'm saying.
(29:59):
Like you know that the job isnot asking you to sin in any
overt way, then you know what Imean.
Like, so you're going tomeasure it against the truth of
scripture.
The decision that you have, isthis going to take you away from
your family that you havecommitted to raising?
You know, is it going to takeyou out of commitments that
(30:19):
you've already made before God?
Right, would it?
Would it affect your marriage?
Would it pull you away from aspouse that you've already
entered into a covenantrelationship with?
Then that's not going to leadto greater holiness.
But sometimes you've got theseI mean in the example I gave,
like which guide?
You know, which craft do Ifollow to write my book?
Well, I could have done eitherone, as long as I've committed
(30:43):
to it.
The key, another key so you,we've already talked about
commitment.
The other key is, uh, and I'vementioned it, accountability.
So I had a book coach and I hadsomeone who said all right,
look, we're going to agreetogether that this is your goal.
He didn't.
It wasn't his, it was my goal.
I went with it.
I went to him with this goaland he, within his expertise,
(31:05):
said here's how you canaccomplish it.
It's going to stretch you, butit's not impossible.
Do this and I.
And so I follow that.
And then I was held accountable.
Like I said, at the end ofevery four weeks, I wanted to
make sure I feel accountable tomy listeners.
You know, I feel like, um, acouple of weeks ago, I came out
with my podcast on a Tuesday.
It just happened.
It hardly ever happens.
(31:26):
I'm a Monday.
I released my podcast on Mondayand, no, like the sky did not
fall, but I have this sense ofaccountability to them, even
though I really can't see them.
Many of them email me andthings like that.
The third aspect is community.
So where did it go deeper, whenI could get in it and get fired
(31:47):
up about it and then have aconversation with you about it?
And then you go oh my gosh,yeah, I saw that too, or I've
never seen that before, or youknow, uh, so I, uh, my my
youngest homeschools and she's asenior in high school this year
and I'm her Bible teacher.
Everything else she's prettymuch doing online through dual
enrollment things like that, uh.
But I said, okay, I'm going tobe your Bible teacher and so
(32:08):
we're reading through Hebrewsand we were reading in chapter
five or six or whatever, and shegoes.
You know what this makes methink of?
This makes me think of thisother verse that I read the
other day in first Corinthiansand she flipped over and she was
like mom, I just like followedmy own, my first cross reference
.
Like in my own head Iremembered that something was
(32:31):
over here that connected to overhere and we talk about it all
the time and we've got studyhelps that show us how.
But the Lord showed her.
It happened to her.
And what makes me go deeperHaving experiences like that?
What if?
you're just sitting aroundvisiting with friends about what
the?
Lord has shown you in his word.
Did you know that his thoughtsare higher than our thoughts and
(32:54):
his ways are higher than ourways?
Did you know that he I had anew believer one time was like.
I just read in Jeremiah that hehas plans for me and a hope for
my future.
And it was her first time seeingit for herself, and it wasn't
somebody else standing on astage telling her, although
there's value in that, um, youknow, and so you might say okay,
(33:17):
but the Bible is a big book,I'm still very intimidated.
I don't know where to start.
Um, if you go to church, go,think about what verse your
pastor used on Sunday.
My pastor was in Acts, so ifyou don't have nowhere else to
go, go to Acts, chapter 17,right there and see what happens
.
Um, if you have't have nowhereelse to go, go to Acts, chapter
17 and start reading right thereand see what happens.
If you have a devotional thatyou like, usually at the top
(33:38):
there'll be like a verse.
Don't just read that one verse.
Go read the chapter before thechapter and the chapter after
where that verse is, and againseek the Lord's face before you
seek his hand.
Where you seek his hand.
Right and when doing that, shareit with a friend, because that
will bond you together andcreate this excitement and
(34:00):
interest.
Yeah, my daughter goes to.
My oldest daughter goes toTulane University and we joke
sort of that.
It's like Sodom and Gomorrah.
It's in New Orleans and it is avery dark city and a very dark
place and it's a very darkcampus.
Christians are not welcomethere.
(34:26):
But I went and did a talk withshe's got a group of young
college girls in this collegeministry they call it Abide,
which I love, and I show up on aWednesday night to 20 girls
with Bibles, 20 girls withBibles in their laps on a campus
that is not known for Christianinfluence, and they're studying
(34:49):
the word and they're talkingabout the word.
And that's not the only nightthey meet.
They were talking about okay,well, um, so next wednesday
we're going to meet again.
But don't forget to meet withyour small groups.
They meet with small groups inbetween and they have like
coordinated quiet times wherethey just kind of show up to
each other's houses for a coupleof hours every week.
(35:09):
I was so inspired by theseyoung women who are, I mean, and
they're studying to be doctorsand lawyers and I mean we don't.
They have this full plate of ofvery rigorous academics and
they're equaling their time inGod's word with their time in
(35:29):
biomedicine and it's justinspiring.
That's what happens when you arein community, so don't do it
alone.
Accountability is a littledifferent.
You can often getaccountability in community.
Accountability is a little bitdifferent.
You're giving that person kindof permission to have a little
bit of authority over a goalthat you have agreed to.
But community is so, soimportant to reinforce that
(35:54):
commitment that you've made.
Cassandra (35:56):
Right, right, that's amazing.
I remember this.
You reminded me of a time whenI was in a dark place and I was
very I was.
I called it.
I was just sold out to the Lord.
I was just sold out to the Lordand I asked the question to him
are you, have you ever you knownew, new in Christ?
(36:18):
Have you ever like been down ordepressed or downtrodden or
whatever?
Blah, blah, blah.
And the next day, when I wasreading my devotion, I saw no, I
was reading the word and I justhappened to the spirit, just
happened to have me come to thethree thing Would you take this
(36:39):
cup away from me?
Okay, and the and the and his,his, his boys, I call it, it was
sleep.
He went back and he said wouldyou please take this?
Can you take this cup for me?
And that to me was like oh mygosh, he was showing me that he
was down.
You know that it's OK.
You know that he was upset withhis, with the disciples,
(37:03):
because they wouldn't stay upwith him and all of that.
So it's kind of like I said inmy book if you want to know, if
you want to know the Lord, ifyou want to have a relationship
with him.
You can, and he knows that, youknow, so he will reveal.
Should I be in thisrelationship, should I do this
(37:24):
job?
Just things will come up, butyou have to trust him and be
committed to it.
Michelle (37:30):
Yeah, and he, you know the thing is is that he's
promised to be with us.
He is ever present.
He doesn't sleep, he's not.
He's not disappointed in you.
He wants you to turn your faceand and and sometimes turn your
direction away from sin.
(37:51):
He's never going to like sinright, so he's never going to
want you to walk in sin.
So that's what I've said.
I mean, if this decision, ifone leads to greater holiness,
always go toward that decision.
Sometimes it's very black andwhite.
He's like, no, this is notconsistent with my character and
(38:12):
this decision will lead you toa very bad place.
You know there are certainthings that are in God's word.
Lord, should I stay in thismarriage?
Yes, you know.
I mean, obviously we know thatthere are reasons for divorce
that are outlined in scripture,but the majority of the time
when you're asking that question, that's not the reasons that's
(38:33):
going on in your life.
You're um, you're wrestling withsome other things, and so a lot
of times, um, yes, we want hisguidance, uh, except we want his
answer to be what we want it tobe.
And so why would you need God?
Then, like, you're just makingyourself into your own God and
you have to know that he is whohe says he is and he is all
(38:58):
powerful.
And that Red Sea that's likeall bubbly over there and the
thing barreling behind you,that's nothing to him.
He can split it and let you walkacross on dry ground and drown
the enemies in your verypresence.
But, you have to trust him.
I mean, if you, if you go backto Exodus right before the
people were flipping out, theyare like you led us to the side
(39:24):
of this sea and I can hear thehorses whinnying.
You know what God said Chillout, be calm, be still and no,
you know, just be still.
Just be still, and so he's likeI get it.
I know that you're in thisturmoil, but I am also a great
(39:48):
and mighty God.
I am who I am, and mighty God,I am who I am, and so I think
that as we turn our eyes awayfrom ourselves I've heard it
called navel gazing where you'rejust kind of so bent over and
looking at yourself and you alsoput your blinders on so that
(40:12):
the circumstances of your lifeare not defining for you who God
is, and you go into his wordand you look for him.
You will find him, and then hewill remind you that he is with
you.
And I'm not trying to diminishthe very, very difficult
decisions that your listenersare facing.
I just I do want to challenge,though, if you know that you
know that this message was foryou he is calling you to himself
(40:36):
.
He is saying enough is enough,turn toward me, fix your eyes on
you.
Know it says uh, fix your eyeson the author and finisher of
your faith.
Look at me, look at me, fixyour eyes on me, and we're going
to get through this together.
And then it also says to shedthe sin that so easily entangles
us.
So we start to drop off the sinthat we, that we get tripped up
(41:00):
in we keep our eyes fixed onJesus and we run our race, that
he's set before us and he'sgoing to be with us.
He's going to be cheering us.
On One of the questions thatyou know, people ask well, how
did?
How did you write the?
What was the creative processof writing the book?
And I know some non-believersare like going to roll their
eyes at this, but I would go onwalks and I would say, okay,
lord, this is the scene we'rewriting today.
What should I write?
(41:22):
And sometimes I literally feltlike he said I don't know.
What do you think?
Cassandra (41:27):
Yeah.
Michelle (41:28):
And it was such a beautiful process to do it with
him.
I'm not doing it for him.
I'm not doing it to impress him.
It was something that we didtogether.
It was something that I did,that he never left me.
He inspired me.
I a hundred percent believethat.
I mean, someone would say howdid you even think to come up
(41:48):
with whatever, whatever?
And I'm like, I don't know.
It's just me, and God you know,just walking down this creative
path and um, and yet he's inall of it you know, I love that.
Cassandra (42:00):
I love that.
It's like um the seat at thetable right your book.
It's like is that about likesitting at the table with God,
even though it's it's fiction?
Michelle (42:11):
yeah, so, interestingly enough, it's like
got this like double entendrekind of thing, because joy wants
a seat at the table, she likein the in, like a corporate
sense she wants her voice to beheard and she wants success and
whatever.
But she learns throughout thecourse of the story um, what
kind of table she wants to sitat is really Christ's table.
(42:33):
We are seated with Christ inthe heavenly places, scripture
tells us.
And so there's there's a lot ofbeautiful table imagery in
scripture.
So I actually have been workingon a Bible study to kind of go
along inspired by the book, kindof like I sometimes do my
podcast inspired by the song.
I'm doing some Bible studiesinspired by the book and it's
(42:54):
just such a it is yes, it's gotthis.
This idea of the world thinks aseat at the table means this.
And God says a seat at thetable means him.
Cassandra (43:04):
Yes.
Michelle (43:06):
He is like all the way back in the old Testament, the
table of the bread of presence.
It's to be with him, it's to be, it's him, it is him, and so
yeah, michelle girl.
Cassandra (43:21):
That is great, I know .
I know you spoke to my heartand if you spoke to my heart,
you were speaking to a whole lotof other people.
And one of the things you saidthat the women you work with at
the leadership college and howthe podcasting weekly changes
(43:41):
them changes you.
So just saying, if my listenersstart listening and committed
and persistent, it will changethem.
Michelle (43:57):
Oh, yeah, for sure.
I did a conference recently, awomen's conference, and it was
really sweet because one of mylisteners actually made it all
happen and she said she's beenlistening since 2017 and that
it's by incorporating some ofthe practical things that I
teach on the podcast it hastransformed her ability to
(44:19):
interact with God's word andthen, ultimately, just her
relationship with the Lord andwith his people.
And I'm just a vessel, you know, and the bites that I share are
just, I tell people, I didn'tcreate them, I curate them.
You know, I have goodconversations with people all
the time and I that sounds funand I incorporate it into my own
Bible study time and um, but,yes, it is transformative
(44:41):
because, because God is sointeresting I was.
I've been thinking a lot aboutthis, because my most recent
podcast was on the unchangingnature of God, his immutability
and how that's a characteristicthat's true only of him.
We are not unchanging, right,and so, uh, in fact, we are
constantly changing.
In fact, we're designed tochange, to grow more like him.
(45:05):
We are called to um, to shed,uh, the old nature and put on
the new nature, and we arecalled to continue to be.
We are sanctified and continueto be sanctified.
So we're constantly changingand growing.
So this thing that we loveabout God him being unchanging
gives us that kind of thatfoundation and that settledness
(45:30):
to be able to grow, to try thatjob, to write that book and just
see what happens.
You know, I just think the worlddoesn't end if the job, if you
picked the wrong job, becauseGod's not going anywhere, he's
not saying well, you picked thewrong job, I'm out.
That's not his nature, that'snot who he is, he's going to be
there, right there with you, andthe very place that you think
(45:54):
might be the wrong place.
I mean Emily at the beginningthought Tulane after the first
semester.
She's like I just, I just wantout, I want to, I want to go to
LSU where it's more, where it'seasier to be a Christian, and
God was like Nope, I actuallyhave you here For a reason and
she can now see just why, whyyou know so sometimes we make
(46:16):
decisions and think it's wrong,just because it's hard, like no,
actually.
Um, I'm leading you down thispath of endurance that leads to
character, and character leadsto hope.
Cassandra (46:26):
And right point, yeah um, before I, I Before I have
you to give where individualscan follow you on your podcast,
I'd like for you to share withthe listeners who are lukewarm.
They've given their life overto the Lord, but they're not in
(46:47):
a place where they believe theyshould be.
You know, it's like you know,as God says, I'll spear you out.
You know you can't figure outwhich way you want to go, but
there are listeners that arelukewarm.
You know, and knowing and beenwhat I would call had taken a
(47:09):
deep dive before with God andknow the things that he has done
and can do, but they just can'tseem to get back there.
Could you speak to thoselisteners that are dealing with
that?
Michelle (47:22):
Yeah, first of all, I just want to tell you that he's
calling you home, he's callingyou back.
This is, if you are lukewarmand you are feeling that right
now, it's because he is drawingyou.
And I also know that withChrist there is no condemnation.
So if you are hearing voices ofshame, if you are hearing a
(47:45):
voice of guilt, that's not thefather's voice, and so my
question back to you is whosevoice is it?
Because we have an enemy whodoes not want you to rest in the
hope and the peace that youhave in Christ.
He wants to draw you away fromthat.
(48:07):
And so I would say, um, you arenot too far gone, he is calling
you back.
I would say start withscripture.
I would say connect withcommunity.
You know that person that youcan call right now and you can
say I just need to confess toyou that I want to want God more
(48:28):
, and will you pray with me?
You have a person.
If you are lukewarm like that,you probably have a person, I
don't care how far back in thedistance, and I will tell you
this right now if that person isworth their salt, they are a
follower of Christ.
They will be so grateful topray with you.
I encourage my listeners.
I just say my prayer for you isthat God will give you an
(48:51):
unreasonable desire for his wordthat will lead to an
unsurpassable relationship withhim.
I truly believe and I do wantto encourage you to go pick up
the pages of his word and bereminded maybe not like
Leviticus.
Do you know what I'm saying?
There's a few places that mightnot be as helpful, but just be
(49:12):
reminded, he's there, it's hisstory and everything points.
I have this children's Biblethat says every story whispers
his name.
All the stories through the Oldand New Testament are pointing
to Jesus, who is the way, thetruth and the life, and so I
love the title of your podcastand your book.
(49:32):
Is your way, getting in, your,in your way?
I will tell you it's.
If you go, if you look to theway, I think, a lot of these,
the angst that you're feeling,will fall to the wayside.
And he's not standing injudgment of you, he's.
He's like the father, pickingup his, his skirts and running
(49:55):
to the father saying I, I,you've returned.
That's, that's the father,that's that's right.
Cassandra (50:02):
That's beautiful, michelle.
Thank you so much.
Would you please tell mylisteners how can they connect
with you on your podcast or evenget in touch with you?
Michelle (50:14):
Yeah, yeah.
So I actually created this page.
I just want to thank you forletting me be on here so that
your listeners can hear my story, and so I created a couple of
freebies for them, and so if yougo to Michelle knees at dot com
, forward slash, unlock it willunlock.
Forward slash, unlock, it willunlock.
(50:36):
And I have a link to my podcast, a link to my book, and then
like four or five freebies thatI've listed out there ways that
they can engage both with someof the Bible studies I've
written and also some resourcesaround the book, and then links
to other podcasts that I've beenon on this podcast tour.
So thank you so much, cassandra, for having me on here.
So it's michellekneesatcomforward slash, unlock.
Cassandra (50:58):
Okay, okay.
Well, michelle, as I always sayto my listeners and to my
guests, I say bye for now andGod bless you.
And in the event that I know, Ijust know within my spirit that
this podcast has been ablessing and I ask my listeners
(51:19):
to please share it with someonewhere you know that this will be
the beginning of a life changeand also just know that this
podcast will be played on allpodcast platforms.
So again, michelle, I thank you, god bless you and bye for now.
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