Leverage The Strength Of Femininity | 080 - It Has to Be Me

Episode Transcript
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Tess Masters (00:02):
Oh, Amy, I'm so excited to end our week together like this, having this lovely conversation. You have been studying humans and behavior and celebrating story your entire life. So tell me about some of those. It has to be me moments about where that started for you in your family.

Amy Stanton (00:20):
That's a great question. I certainly wasn't aware that it had to be me until it's easier to see in hindsight. Let's put it that way. Yeah, I think every family is full of characters and stories and unexpected twists and and I was the oldest child, so I carried a lot of responsibility and had a

(00:50):
certain amount of, well,pressure, I think, most of which was self inflicted, to be perfect and The good girl and,

oh, wait, so you're like, the same first child as all the rest of us.

Isn't that weird? I first of all, why is that that all of her children were cursed with this? I'm not entirely sure, but I will say I was an observer, and I think I as much as I participated in life, and it's not like I sat around on the sidelines. I did spend a lot of time kind of watching

(01:26):
carefully and trying to trackthings and understand things at a deeper level. And some of that's just my nature, and I think that's entirely blamed on older child syndrome, but I definitely wanted to understand the kind of deeper meaning of things and the reason behind them. And I, I had this
incredibly close relationshipwith my grandparents, and they were like a second pair of parents for me, and in many ways, I think I felt a little bit like a sibling to my mother, as much as she was an epic mom to me, and still is. So I had this unique dynamic where I was I always felt a little bit older

(02:10):
and sort of wiser beyond myyears. And that's not meant to sound like a good thing, by the way.

Okay, tell me more about that.

Well, don't I think we can look around and say there's a real benefit to kids being able to be kids and have no pressure and limited weight of the world on their shoulders. And a lot of mine might have been self inflicted, but I think I always carried a lot and always felt a lot of pressure.

(02:44):
And I remember for a large partof my life, like up through even high school and maybe early college days, I my grandmother would say, how are you Amy? And I often answer, I'm stressed. And stress was often tied to school work, and, you know, I went to a very competitive High School, which actually was, I

(03:07):
think, harder than college inthe end, but I really felt stressed. And she, she would call me on it, she'd say, Amy, I don't want you to be stressed. Like it's, this is, like, not a at this point in life, I don't want you to be stressed now I still was. It's not like that could be fixed, but I still

(03:28):
think back to that. I think howinteresting that I was stressed at such a young age, you know, and and what was driving you

at that point, you know, to feel like you had to be something or achieve or or go harder or push yourself, or be perfect or be the good girl, or whatever you What were you feeling?

All of those things? Um, I honestly can't tell you. I think about this all the time, even now I ask myself the same question, why am I like this? It's an interesting question. You know, more from a place of curiosity than judgment. But yeah, I think at that time, I had a deep desire
to make everyone proud. Ireally, I felt like we were very high. There was a very value, a lot of value. Conversation values. Conversation in my family, my grandparents were both in the south, and my grandfather built himself from nothing and built this wealth and support for our family as

(04:38):
his mission, and was, in manyways, the ultimate patriarch, and so I think I felt, yeah, a huge amount of respect for him and sort of awe. And then my grandmother was just this boss lady, but not in the ways that we think of that now, not not like current boss babe culture. Or definitely not more like, you

(05:02):
know, my grandfather took careof everything, and she was kind of the ultimate, like the feminine in the relationship, but all but had her sort of deeper powers of how she got things done, and sometimes very directly, you know, not, not manipulatively, but it's just such a powerful dynamic, and in

(05:23):
many ways, inspired a lot of thethings I think about now, and truthfully, is still a model that I really aspire to, that kind of masculine man and the woman Being the feminine in the powerful ways. So I think they, I mean, they were highly influential on me in so many ways. But I, I think the self

(05:50):
inflicted pressure was because Iwanted to make everybody proud.

And this, this balance of full expression of the feminine and full expression of the masculine. That you had these two glorious, nurturing, beautiful examples of that in your life that you had huge respect for, and you were then able to to put that manifestation inside of your own

(06:17):
consciousness. And you speakbroadly about this in the feminine revolution, in the book about how you struggle to hold those two parts of yourself, you know in balance your family were entrepreneurs. Was that part of the stress that you knew that you wanted to create something, that you were going to become an

(06:37):
entrepreneur? Did you know thatabout yourself,

or how that pressure with certainty that I was going to be an entrepreneur. I had no idea what it would be, but even in elementary school, I was making barrettes and selling them at local street. I, from very early age, was making things and selling them, and sometimes I would just tag on to
my parents businesses, whereverthey were, I'd be just the cute little girl selling things, but cute things. But in hindsight, it's astounding that anyone bought any of those bread. I hope someone took a photo of those barrettes, actually, because those were something else. But I think people were

(07:18):
doing a favor for sure. Butregardless, I grew up feeling like anything's possible, because that's a great feeling. So did I. I was blessed as well luck. Yes, you know,

embarrassment of riches, it's so beautiful. So take me into some of these other it has to be me moments. So you knew you wanted to be an entrepreneur. You were seeing the opportunity, seeing that anything's possible, being nurtured, loved and celebrated and supported by your family.
Take me into going to Penn anddeciding you were going to study what, what was the it has to be me moment there, like, where you decided that's the direction you're going in next.

I don't know if I've decided on a direction. Test. So it's interesting you say that.

Well, I mean, I thank you for redirecting me, because I'm making an assumption, right? And I shouldn't be doing that. So, so then, what was it? Then you

can I think what's interesting about life is this perception of control that we all have about aspects of life. I think most of us have realized that we have no control over most things, but we still believe that we might have control over what we eat for lunch or what you know, basic

(08:37):
decision making throughout theday. But I think when I look back at a lot of these moments, things really were in flow in ways that I wasn't aware so I played tennis in high school. I was number one singles in my high school team. I never felt like I was an athlete or a good tennis player for that matter,
because I was at a small privateschool. Even though Southern California is one of the best tennis markets in the country, I felt like I didn't take myself seriously in that regard at all, and yet it did help. I felt like, okay, maybe this will help with my application. But the ultimate thing that I knew would

(09:15):
help with my application wasapplying to the engineering school, because I was really good at math and science. I just knew I wanted to go to Penn. God knows why. I mean, to this day, I still think it's funny. I just I applied early. I decided that's where I wanted to go. I went on a college tour. I saw
everything, but I said, I wantto go to Penn. Applied early as an engineer. Didn't really know what engineering was, truthfully, and you are required to select an engineering at one engineering class your first semester. So I selected bio engineering now like of course, in the in hindsight, that makes

(09:51):
sense, because now I work deeplyin the health and wellness space, but that makes me laugh, even thinking about all of these moments being great in math and. Science in high school doesn't mean you're going to be an engineer. And this is, that's the sort of high level summary of that story. But I remember
getting there and thinking,Whoa. The I mean, first of all, looking around, being like I am, not like the others. And I had this group project in this bioengineering class, and we decide to create an artificial lung freshman year. Wasn't only freshman in that class, but this intro to bioengineering class,

(10:30):
that's, you know, you got to dosomething big. That's the bottom line. So naturally, I was assigned to the marketing and legal section of the project, which was a huge relief, because that's probably the only thing that was tackleable for me at that time and again, it makes perfect sense that maybe that

(10:51):
was great foreshadowing forlater in life, since it definitely was much more aligned with what was realistic and logical and Passion point for me even before I knew it. So that was my last engineering class, and I transferred into the communications school, not because I was so great at
marketing the artificial lung,but because I didn't really know what communications was. And I felt the great news about that was I would be able to have a minor at Wharton, and that was important to me, or concentration, it was called. And so there I was in the communication school, going

(11:29):
nowhere fast, because I, youknow, I think that's the funny thing about liberal arts, like you're and at that age, like I didn't as much as I was very ambitious. I didn't know where it was all going. That's why I laugh when you say, How did you know? I mean, know is a strong word. I just trusted these
moments as we'll talk aboutintuition in a bit. But I I really did feel like I was kind of guided through these different transitions and then even graduating. When someone said, What do you want to do? I was like, I would look at people that I sort of knew what they did and felt they were a little

(12:01):
bit like me, and be like, Okay,I think I'm going to go into advertising. I want to move to New York for a couple years, thinking it really would only be a couple years. It was not before, you know it, I'm working in advertising, and that was because I just saw someone that I thought resembled me, went to
the pen, went to theCommunication School. That's what she did. So seems like a good starting point, knowing eventually I was going to start my own business. Start my own business, so I wanted something that was going to lay the groundwork for that and give me a set of tools. And there's so

(12:30):
many things I think about fromthose early days in advertising, one of which is how powerful it is to understand the serve, how to be in service. So in the service industry, how to service clients, how to work as part of a team, servicing clients, managing clients, all of this. And I mean, clearly it's a huge

(12:54):
part of what I do now. So thankgoodness I did that, man, thank goodness,

yeah. I mean, what I'm hearing is you're speaking is just allowing and surrendering to your intuition and being in flow of what's going on. And that is, you know, we'll talk about this, you know, a form of knowing that we often discount. So I and I, you know, every experience gives you the
tools for the next experience,and it all does, does top tail together. You know, in hindsight, the benefit of it is we look back with 2020 vision and go, oh, all the breadcrumbs were there, and all the pieces of the puzzle were coming together. So speaking about being in service, and

(13:32):
particularly being gratified,gratifying being in service of something you really believe can make a difference in the world, going back to that template set by your grandparents. You know of having good values, acting on courses you believe in, what did working on the New York Olympic bid teach you about service and
story and celebrating others.

So much. Well, first of all, just to put a pin in the last point being the fact I really would have described myself as a control freak for most of my life, so the fact that I was going with the flow, with all these major life decisions, it's funny. I mean, it really is and and maybe, and

(14:17):
I definitely wasn't aware in themoment that I was trusting the process, or trusting my intuition, because in those moments, I'm sure it was very stressful, even though now, you know, we all learn that stress just increases over time. So stressful then you know those were minor issues, but, but,

(14:38):
yeah, I think you know there wasa lot of sort of divine intervention with all of those moments in my life, and one of the biggest examples of that was when I was hired for New York's Olympic bid, and one of my mentors and a former boss called me one day and said, Amy, I have the perfect job for you. It's
the director of marketing and PRfor New York's Olympic bid. Said, Jane, I don't see how this could be the perfect job for me. I don't know anything about sports or the Olympics or New York for that matter, at that point, that point had been there about eight years, so I was fairly familiar, but history of

(15:16):
New York and everything else andthen, and I said, and by the way, I'm not even sure it's a good idea to bring the Olympics to New York. And she said, Amy, trust me, just go in and meet Dan Doctor off and let's just see what happens. She was right. So I trusted her. I met him. I fell in love with the whole
concept. He's still one of thedearest people in my life to this day.

(15:38):
And ultimately,
I could never have predictedthat. That's the thing. I could never have designed this in my mind, and it was so much more epic than whatever I believed was my next step. And so sometimes when I have to wonder what's next, or if I'm curious about kind of where things are all going, I remember moments

(15:58):
like that, because whensomething more extraordinary than you ever imagined happens, you realize that you didn't need to sort of arm wrestle it for it to happen. It happened, you know, you didn't call, you didn't say exactly what you wanted, and then there it was delivered. It was better than
what you ever imagined. And howepic is that so it was hard, though, I won't deny it. The thing that really was the most incredible for me was waking up every morning. This was right after 911 that we were trying to bring the Olympic New York. And it functions. It was like bomb for the soul. Yes, it really

(16:38):
was. And at a time when peoplefelt so incredibly helpless. This was one thing I could do that felt like it was a bright light for the city and something that was bringing some positivity and some hope and a brighter future at a time when we needed it most. So I And truthfully, while there's a lot

(17:00):
of challenging parts of theOlympic movement. It's highly political in ways that people wouldn't understand, and we definitely don't need to get into that today, but it is, sort of, at its core, a very inspiring thing to be part of, because the athletes, first and foremost, who are all striving
to be the best in the world atwhatever their respective sports are, just that. I mean, what an energy to be able to feed off of. And I think New York, this is one of the reasons it really was, and someday will be a match made in heaven. We lost to London for 2012 but is that the culture of the Olympics and this

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striving to be the best in theworld that is so aligned with the values of New York City. So it really, it really was a match made in heaven in that way at a time that would have been transformative. But what's incredible is Dan's vision for the Olympic bid and his partner, Jay, who also was like family to

(18:06):
me, Dan and Jay transformed thecity, even though we didn't get the Olympics. There's, there are books that have been written about all of the incredible changes that have happened in New York City as a result of the bidding process. So Dan was the head of the Deputy Mayor for economic and develop,

(18:29):
development and rebuilding whilewe were bidding. So he was able to make some incredibly meaningful changes. The whole West Side of Manhattan was transformed because of Dan. The waterfront in Queens, like just major, major developments that could not have taken place if it wasn't for the bid. So we, we
really were waking up withpurpose every day, and I realized extent to which that is an incredible luxury. But then, once you've done that, I caught the bug. You know? I couldn't it's a

great bug to catch and then keep passing on to others. Oh yes. What else? Let's talk about the other seeds that were planted or fertilized or watered during this chapter, this love and passion for championing female athletes and female stories that then dovetailed into you starting

(19:25):
your PR company.

Yes, I mean, during the Olympic bid, I was acutely aware of the fact that no one could name three female athletes the average person, and this was now the bid was, I was working on between 2002 and 2005 so that was a bit ago, just a bit and

let's not do the maths on that. No, it's

just around the corner. But the the thing that was interesting is. Is, you know, I was so touched by these athletes and their stories. And you know, Olympic athletes are different from what we traditionally consider professional athletes, although some of them are professional
athletes as well, but they are,in most cases, barely making it work and doing everything in service of being the best in the world at the sport. So you think about some of the less high profile sports, like fencing or archery or weightlifting or curling or in I mean, any bobsled, you know. Think Summer,

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winter Olympics, these. Thereare athletes all over the world that are literally living and breathing these sports because of their pure love and passion for the sport and their desire to be the best. That is very inspiring to me, because in a culture where people are so focused on fame and fortune and
all these other things, it'sincredibly refreshing to meet people who truly just are doing whatever they're doing for the sake of excellence. And I think that's, I mean, that's in some ways, that's even more inspiring to me now because of things like social media and all the other things that have given us all

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these other measures to look atthat are kind of inconsequential in the grand scheme of things so but have become incredibly important for business today. Yeah, you know, so these athletes, I just, I felt a connection to the purpose in what they were doing. And then I after that had was, had the

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great fortune of being hired asthe Chief Marketing Officer of Martha Stewart, who is epically powerful woman, and I, I had, and have the utmost respect for her. She is, she is a game changer and pioneer in ways that very few are and unapologetically herself, which was so refreshing, because I had

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worked for these really amazingmen at that point, and I had great bosses prior to all of this, but Dan and Jay really made a mark on me because of how kind and loving They were as humans, but also how directed and direct, and they were as business people. I mean, I just this the style. I was really,

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again, as an observer, watchingthese styles and thinking, which parts of these different people do I want to bring forward in myself? You know, because I'm modeling, we're all modeling all the time, whether we know it or not. So, Martha was the first woman I had worked for who the good, bad and the ugly shine

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through. And she it took a lotof heat for stuff. You know, obviously there's we could go that that could be a whole conversation in and of itself about the Martha Stewart story. But she was, you know, people always say, oh, Isn't she so tough? And mean, no, she has super high standards, and she's
going to tell everybody exactlywhat she wants, and she doesn't want to put up with a bunch of people that aren't giving it their best. And I really relate to that. That isn't No one enjoys that, you know, so at the at the heart, I just, I really appreciated a lot of the like, the the intentions behind her

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behavior in a way that allowedme to sort of see things a little bit differently. So she's also the ultimate entrepreneur. And I was there for about a year, and interesting, but I wasn't waking up every day feeling super connected to the purpose and ultimately, again, it was time. It was time for me

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to make my entry toentrepreneurship. And I had been thinking about it since the Olympic bid this women's sports opportunity. So I decide,

okay, so give that one to me. That's an, it has to be me moment. That's a conscious decision to go out on your own, yeah, you know, leave a high paying job and security and start your own company. I mean that that's a definite choice.

Yeah, 100% Well, I had been laying the groundwork since the bid, because I met a woman who represented female athletes, and I was even thinking about doing it right as I was leaving, but I was so tired. I felt like I was ready to retire after the Olympic bid. I was 32 but I was so exhausted.
I was so exhausted from thatexperience, and I was like, I I, I don't know. I just, I thought, I think corporate culture sounded I'd been in big corporate culture prior to that. I think I was just ready for more structure. But the truth is, I love the rolling up the sleeves and figuring stuff out,

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and when things don't makesense, figuring out how to make them make sense. Like. Was that is very much in my sort of wheelhouse and skill set, and things that I think sometimes are fun most of the time, thankfully. So Cheryl and I started this business. She had representation experience. I
wanted to build a mini IMG, butfocused on the women's side, where we had representation, content, events, consulting, which is the one thing I actually thought we knew how to do. I mean, I knew how to do all these things to a point, but there was a lot of making it up as we went. And she was, she

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already was representing someathletes at that point, so she taught me the ropes of representation. Suddenly, the representation took off. Suddenly, I'm a sports agent that again. Wow. What was that like? The last thing on earth I wanted, truthfully, because at the time, I actually had like,
an identity crisis around it,because I grew up in LA and I used to feel like talent agents were a certain way, and suddenly I was an agent. I thought, How did this happen? But, but the reality is, I found it very easy to be an advocate for others and share their stories to your point. And so prior to starting

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the company, everyone said, Amy,you're crazy. There's no money in women's sports. I talked to a lot of people about this, very knowledgeable people, and they all said the same thing. There were no people other than maybe the cheerleaders around me who are like, you could do it. Amy, you can do anything you say your
mind to but I, I think anyonewho actually understood the business warned me, and that just made me more motivated to try. And so the representation stuff took off, and suddenly and my uncle's best friend was the aunt of the top female snowboarder in the world at that time. At this point, I had

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brought together a handful offemale athletes from different sports, some of whom I'd worked with during the Olympic bid. Cheryl had already some athletes, so we had a pretty great little roster. But then suddenly I signed Gretchen, Bleiler and Gretchen, and I thought I was just having an
informational conversation withGretchen, because I was just doing that all the time, informational conversations left and right. That's what you do. You do that when you're starting business. You do that when you have a business. I still do that all the time. It's my favorite thing, actually. And so before

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you know, like in thisconversation that I thought was informational when I'd never seen snowboarding live, I suddenly became Gretchen's sports agent. And she, I think she believed she just won a silver medal at the Olympics. I think she believed that, since I if I could be the Chief
Marketing Officer, MarthaStewart, I could probably be your agent. She was right, thankfully. But I look at those moments and I think, you know, I could again. Couldn't have predicted that. And so then I went deep into women's snowboarding, became the agent in women's snowboarding. We

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still represent one of the shewas the youngest athlete we signed at that time, Jamie Anderson. She's going back for her fourth Olympics in February. Unbelievable. She's had a baby too. Actually, it's incredible, so inspiring, but I you know that was really the beginning of our journey in the women's
sports space. And then we workedwith ESPN to create the first ever ESPN W women in sports Summit, and I executive produced that for seven years. And then, you know, I just suddenly became this expert in the women's sports space. But after the second year of working with Cheryl, we split our ways and I

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moved back to LA and then theagency evolved to be still focused on women's sports, but more broadly on this healthy, active living space, which I think more closely mirrors my personal passions. Because, as you know, I was a tennis player, but like and then eventually I became more sporty. Started
running marathons and doingtriathlons and stuff, but I wasn't ever an athlete in my mind, still to this day, actually, that's funny, but it's true. So the but the fitness and the health and the wellness and the broader sort of taking care of yourself in all the ways made a ton of sense to me, and

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learning how to do that, andhelping others do that, and then helping brands and people that are making a meaningful mark in the world and committed to. It could be the democratization of health or creating better for you products, or cleaning up the toxins in the world, or any of these things. These are the

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things that excite me, where Iknow I can be a vehicle for change. Yeah.

So you have since branched out and represent men and women, and your roster is very diverse and reads like the who's who of Holistic Health, doctors, practitioners, experts, authors, sports, stars, celebrities, etc. So you spoke before about how your favorite thing to do is having these

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conversations with people. Soknowing that you're you're leading a values driven business and championing other forces for good in the world. What's your criteria for a story that you can. Really get behind and champion and be an advocate for as you said before.

Well, I would never have thought I would be running a PR agency, because when I worked in advertising, PR was sort of the afterthought. Now, PR is in many ways, a rebrand of what we used to call marketing, because it includes Media Relations at the center, and yes, that's every month, what
we're evaluated based on on thePR side, but it includes partnerships and influencers and events and experiential and content and all the things we can leverage and create to get this coverage so and tell these stories. So I think that's why I ended up with a PR agency as a huge part of our work. And when

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I think of how our client basehas evolved, you know, even from the very beginning of when we started working on the PR side, the way I would categorize it, I'd say these are philosophy driven brands. This is still what I call so they have a bigger picture vision and purpose in the world. And that

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could be a brand like pureorganic, which was the first organic snack bar, which we helped bring to market in a meaningful way, and was eventually sold to Kashi, which is part of Kellogg. So it was, we worked with them for 11 years. It was epic story and adventure, and I we were a
critical part of that equation.So I was like, I really saw the value of our work in such a meaningful way. Then now, you know, I will say it's a luxury, but I feel like we can be more discerning, and I need to be, because we're putting our names, you know, yeah, my name is on the door, but now it's s and CO

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so it's just a good old s, notthe full name, but the putting our name on the door, and the the sort of our stamp of approval on these things and our words behind their stories means that we have to believe in them, and have to know that, you know, I'm not right. 100% of the time on this I've made mistakes, many

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where I either misjudge someone,or I thought we could do things that we could not do at the same level that I would have hoped to or, yeah, I'm, I do really trust my gut on a lot of these people and things. And, you know, I have a better understanding of the science and what's real, and I have a lot of people I can

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consult to vet these people.That's the other thing that I that is a great asset. Now, before, if I have questions about someone or something, I will check with my sources, you know, but, but the ultimate is for to know that like I can get into a room with someone and I'm going to be excited to talk

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about this person, that's theultimate test.

Yeah, you spoke before about grabbing from these different mentors, their leadership style, their values, the way that they relate to others, lead others. What do you grab from now that you're leading this big team of people that you've grabbed from Martha Stewart, you've grabbed from Jay
you know these different yourgrandparents and so forth. What do you feel like is coming to the fore? As you said,

I think the the list of things that were the most made the most positive impression on me are the the values I try to lead with now. So authenticity is at the top of that list, and people being real, and that's not about being perfect. So that was a learning experience for me. That's not

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about being the good girl.That's not about always saying the right thing. It's not about always being this gentle person, as much as I am a gentle person, but I There are moments that I am firm and direct, and I think that that's the full picture, but the RE part of the reason I'm direct is because I value

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transparency personally, andthat was one of the things that was, again, very meaningful to me in the way that I worked with Dan and Jay, it's like I never had to guess how do they feel? Are they going back and having a separate meeting to talk about how unhappy they are? No, because we know, because they
were just yelling, and theycommunicated very clearly how they felt. Now I'm not a yeller, but I will always just try to be super honest with people, good, bad and otherwise, because I think that's honoring a relationship, and that's what builds trust, or at least it did with me. So I felt like I could

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trust them, because I knew wherethey stood on stuff. So sometimes I think that's surprising for people. There's a different culture, obviously, between New York and LA. So even the way people work here, or the way people respond to some of those things might be different in LA than in New York, but, but
so far so good. And then I thinkI one of the things that is so fundamental to really everyone in my family, but especially my mother is having generosity front and center. And that's not that's that plays. There's a lot of different versions of generosity. So generosity is, in my mom's case, oftentimes, it's

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doing super thoughtful thingsfor people. It's gift giving, it's surprises, it's things like that and generosity. Those are a component of generosity for me. But then another component is time and presence and being able to sort of wherever I am, be there fully as much as possible, and not sending 20 emails while

(36:02):
I'm on a zoom with someone,because why am I even there? And I've actually encouraged the team to think about this a lot too, because we're all so distracted and distractible in a way that's not only exhausting, but also so inefficient in the end. Because how dumb is it for us to sit on a call with each
other, even when everyone'smultitasking. Let's have a five minute call where no one's multitasking, or let's not have a call at all and be happier people and save that time, you know, so just being as present and in the moment as possible. And again, I'm far from perfect with it. There are times where

(36:39):
I'm triaging something, and I'mnot, I can't help it. You know, it is what it is. Or I could lose myself. You know, that's a lot of triage in my life to see.

I mean, I think we're all sitting in that inquiry all the time. You know, what drives us? What do we need to take personal responsibility for? How can we be better? I mean, that's a beautiful inquiry to be constantly swimming in so let's talk about this. It has to be me moment to write the
feminine revolution and sharehow we can embody these different aspects of ourselves and give full expression to them.

I this was definitely a lightning strike in a way that will will still confuse me in the good way forever. But I've had others too, where I've just known I'm going to do something, like I knew I was gonna start my business. Like I knew that long before I did it, I didn't know
what it was going to be or whenit was going to be, and I still think it's evolving. So that's fun. But the book, I literally woke up one day and I said, I'm going to write a book about femininity. That is bizarre. I still think it's bizarre. And in fact, I was just going through the book Thinking, here's the

(37:58):
book. I was thinking, I can'tbelieve that this book, because it's 2018 so that was seven years ago, crazy. So at that time, everyone was talking about feminism and female empowerment and women's rights and but nobody was talking about this other F word, femininity, and many ways that was still like a

(38:20):
sign of how limited our scopeand vision about where women could go was, because women's rights, in many ways, rejected femininity, like the there's so many aspects of like the movement was like, Like, let's we don't have to play by the rules, you know, and and I think that that is actually totally in

(38:47):
sync with playing, not playingby the rules. I mean, we have a chapter about unleash your wild woman. Like, there's no reason that being a woman or being a feminine woman, or playing into your femininity has to have a bunch of rules, and in many ways, that was the intention, was to sort of unlock some of
this thinking around this.Because, first of all, we're all a combination of masculine and feminine, and that's a great thing. Secondly, everybody would define femininity in a different way, so

and embody it differently, 100%

so the way you would define it and experience it and versus the way I would define it and experience it might be completely different, or we might have some overlap, or we might disagree about

aspects of it great, and that's why the quotes throughout the book of different people, different women around the world, sharing what their definition of is so useful, because they are different and yet similar, and there's a lot of crossover, and yet they challenge you know each other.
It's a great part of the book.

Thank you. I like that too, because we didn't want this to be my writing partner, Catherine, and I did not want for this to be i. A one size fits all approach, and we did not want for it to feel as if we were prescribing anything, because, if anything, the purpose of this was to open up a
conversation about what it meansto be your authentic self. And it's even to this day. I mean, it's fun to pick it up and look at parts of it, because it stimulates a certain thinking around and questioning and sort of self evaluation around where we are showing up authentically, or where we might still be

(40:32):
holding back. And the impetusfor me, ultimately was I had gone through these different experiences, primarily in my New York Life, where I felt like I was in these high powered work environments where I couldn't show up as my full self, because I was, I am an emotional being highly emotional. I am very

(40:52):
sensitive. I am a crier. Idefinitely felt like none of those things were welcome in the workplace, and most people don't, and I, I had, I was sort of on a mission to find my full self. And so this book was a journey in helping unlock some parts, and then also to free some of them. So in many ways, I

(41:18):
mean, this whole notion ofresearch is me search. This was a perfect, perfect example of that, because I I wanted to really go deeper. And I also, at this point, had now had a lot of conversations with women and men, for that matter, that were experiencing some of the same challenges, of feeling like they
couldn't show up as their fullselves, or that they had to sort of hold back certain things in the workplace, or that people only understood part of them. And, you know, I here's the reality. I believe that people will always only understand part of us. That's

just Oh, absolutely, and we have to have boundaries, yes, and we're still understanding ourselves, and it's a constantly evolving conversation that we're having with ourselves, that we bring others in, in a discerning fashion, to be a part of the conversation. And as we age, our
understanding of ourselves andthese concepts just is constantly evolving. And I think that that is one of the overarching messages of the book, for me, is that it's a practice. We're all just practicing. So try this. You know, the exercises at the end of every chapter. I think it's

(42:27):
really interesting that you ledwith unleash your wild woman. That's the chapter you chose to lead with now, and I want to ask you about that, because you talk about how you came from a sheltered upbringing and that you were looking to be the good girl, and yet your family in a professional setting were
pushing the boundaries of whatwas possible and starting things from scratch. So there were these mixed messages in this soup of the story. So how does unleashing your wild woman play out for you now?

Well, in a lot of different moments I would say, where I get to just more fully express myself, good, bad, and otherwise. You know, I had a moment not long ago where I completely I was I had a rough family dinner and was beside myself and left crying, and then my mom followed me home. I mean,

(43:24):
this is still happening to thisman.

What really you're having those emotional conversations with your mom too,

yes, but also that she's following me home at night. Oh, yeah, my mom, too. I was not happy about that, because I did not feel comfortable that she's driving at night across town in this state, she didn't see my text. I allegedly that said, let's talk tomorrow. But I wasn't avoiding
her, but I just didn't I, yeah,needless to say, I was just so highly emotional and kind of uncharacteristically open about everything that I felt in that moment, and it felt amazing honestly. And I mean, I it easily. We all have these patterns with our different family members and really with

(44:12):
anyone in our life, but like,there are aspects that I feel like I certainly hold back and know aren't going to be well received, and I'm literally standing in the street having this conversation loudly with my mom, to the point that she said, Do you think your neighbors all want to hear this? And I said, I
don't care. You know they'refine, but it's just makes me laugh, because it's like, and it's funny that that's the moment that this evokes. But it's also like just making choices about, like, being brave in the world and taking chances and doing things that you haven't done before and and not,

(44:50):
you know, like, kind of wakingup and going, I want to try something different today. You know? I want to, like, I'm What if I just experiment with being. A different version of myself for fun. You know, what would that feel like? Or what if I don't hold back in this conversation the way I normally
would, you know, all of it, solike these are, this is the wild woman. And I mean, I, I a long time ago, one of my many astrologists slash gurus in the circle of my team had said that my archetype was a female wolf, and it makes perfect sense to me on a number of levels, which that's, again, a longer

(45:36):
conversation, but i i When Ithink of the wild woman.
And it's not a coincidence thatthere's a book that literally
talks about women running withthe wolves. But I I think there is something about it that that really makes sense to me. It's like there is that sort of wild like there's a wild wolf within every one of us, you know. And it feels good sometimes to let her out and for her to just roar and do her thing, and like,

(46:09):
she's vicious at times, andshe's, she's vulnerable at other times, and she's all the things. That's the wild woman, you know, and it feels I don't know. So that's like, that's the image that it evokes for me, but there's, it's the limit.

I just feel free, when I think about it, yeah, just the freedom to go in whatever direction you want to go in that feels wild to me. It hasn't been tamed. It's there's no containment. It doesn't have to be manicured, it doesn't have to be perfect, doesn't have to be performative, doesn't have to
be fully made up. Doesn't haveto be fully formed.

So true, I It's that is a relief and a day when we're all trying to

show up and fit into certain containers. Yeah, you know of what other people expect. And I mean, there was so many things that came up for me as I was reading that chapter, some other things that are coming up for me as I'm listening to you and I to you and I'm imagining your mother
and you sitting, standing in thedark in the street with some lights or something. I've got this whole picture of you and Jan. Is the be emotional chapter, which is the first, which is number one of the 21 Yes. And you know this, this idea that we don't get to be emotional because we're an angry

(47:22):
woman, or we're crying too much,or we're too this or too that. And I love how you frame it as being sensitive and being in tune with your emotional intelligence, that it's a it's a superpower. Being able to read people is a gift, and feeling before you speak is a gift. That's what I got from that
chapter. So tell me how Beingemotional is a superpower for you as as a woman and as a leader?

Well, the sensitivity piece is front and center for me, and I definitely that's a perfect example where I would get performance reviews that would say, Oh, you're very sensitive. Don't take things so personally. So I tried to squeeze it out of me, you know. I mean, of course, that's not
possible, but I definitelyputting Pandora back in the box. She doesn't go back in the box. Sensitive. Amy is not welcome here. Okay, noted, but I again, the whole book is about these feminine qualities that have historically been perceived as weaknesses. So sensitivity and emotionality are great examples

(48:34):
of it where those might haveseemed like that had a derogatory kind of intention behind them, but the reality is, sensitivity is what makes me so great at my job. Sensitivity is why I walk in the office and I see something a little off with one of my employees, and I can grab her and say, Hey, what's
going on? Let's make let'sconnect quickly, and then I can most likely solve whatever the issue is, if it has anything to do with anything work related, or she feels better just that someone's paying attention, you know. Or my sensitivity is what allows me in a client meeting to be able to read between the

(49:07):
lines and actually hear what theclient's saying, not just the words that they're speaking. And so though the sensitivity is undoubtedly a superpower in all aspects of our lives, you know, we're able to, and I think it's extremely underrated in that, even still to this day, because the fact that we, I mean, we're

(49:30):
sensing each other all the time,you know, I'm sensing you in this conversation. I'm sensing, you know, where we're going or what's resonating and and that's allowing us to truly connect. Someone told me this week, it was so interesting that it takes a certain amount of time, I think it's like 20 minutes or

(49:52):
something, before two people areactually kind of sinking brain waves on some level. And I don't this is it actually at the. Supposed to be a science thing, and I'm not going to be able to quote it secondhand storyteller, but I thought it was so interesting because it made so much sense to me in that I know
exactly what that feels like,like you like with almost any person. You could sit down and you could start having a conversation about almost anything, and at first you're like, Oh, this is going to be tough. Like, maybe I'm not going to connect with this person, or this topic is boring, or

(50:27):
whatever, you know, potentiallynot with everyone. I mean, most, I think more times than not, that's not the case, thankfully. But there are times, you know, like for interviewing someone, but then there is a point in the conversation where you start to connect on a human level. That's different, and I think it is
energetic, and it it's becauseof what we're sensing and experiencing together. So it's pretty awesome, actually, and it's fun, because the more you tap into that sensitivity, and the more you pay attention to the signs and realize what you're seeing and feeling and hearing and learning, the more

(51:07):
you can put that into you, putthat to good use. You know, a superpower for good?

Yeah, let's talk about owning our intuition. You talked about that before. Let's talk. We're going to talk about intuition later. Let's make sure we do that, because that was one of my favorite chapters of the book. You know, hear what you hear, see what you see, act on what you know to be true. Use
the deep well of your feminineintuition and connect with the power of your own wisdom. So they're all bleeding in with each other all the time. You know, these superpowers. We're just pulling it out of our bag of tools. So how does that play out for you? What's your sense of that?

Well, so my mom was a real warrior from ever, ever, still is maybe more so, and she loved that book, the gift of fear, by Gavin de Becker, yes, and you know, that was a bestseller, like an instant bestseller. And I think that the name of the great title right into, you know, clickbait, but,

(52:13):
yes, but my but it's funny,because now, if anything, I appreciate it even more, because the real premise of that book was that we that we have the ability to sense things in a way that we are actually protected. So while that might be a terrifying name and seem kind of like doom and gloom, it's

(52:33):
actually the opposite, which is,if we're paying attention, we have the tools to be effective, and, and, and we're protected, you know, like people and when, when bad things happened, we're so often able to say, oh, yeah, I kind of saw that coming, or I had a hunch something was a little off. Or, if you think

(52:56):
about how many times thathappens, you know, or even in relationships with people where you go like something just didn't feel quite right in that conversation. But needless to say, I mean, we really do have the it is a superpower. And this whole notion of trusting your gut, like, you know, in the
workplace, that is nothistorically in the boardroom, let's just say, and if someone is presenting, they're not going to say, you know, I really want to move forward with this plan, because I, my, I my, my intuition tells me this is the right way to go. They have to prove it with all the charts and

(53:33):
documentation and be able toshow all of these things. And I'm not saying gut over all of those things. I'm saying it's the two together. It's like the secret weapon that makes us the most powerful is if we have all the information, and then we can use our intuition on top of it to make the ultimate decision.
And I mean, for me, the way itplays out is I'm highly decisive, because I I can read all the information quickly, and then I might I use my gut to make the call. So, yeah, but that's speaking of practices. That's the ultimate practice. You know? It's like you no one just trusts their gut one day

(54:11):
and just feels great about it,like you have to get up, you have to do that with little things and go, Okay, this was this seemed to work out. I trusted my gut that this person would like this gift, or that this conversation, if I handled it this way, would work out this way, or, you know, all those
little sort of practices. Butthen ultimately, then you can keep up leveling to where you're using it for the big things. And that's

how, again, we're just practicing. We're practicing and we get better at what we practice that I want to talk about the surrender chapter, because this was, this was the chapter that I made the most notes with. It was like, Yep, and maybe, you know, probably resonated with me,
because that's the one Istruggle with the most, is surrendering. But some of the things that really spoke to me is surrender is how. Fighting ends. Resist the steady diet of struggle, let go and surrender to what is accept. Listen to your instincts, get in the natural flow. So I want to ask

(55:11):
you about that girl, that younggirl that was stressed all the time, and there was something you say in the book that you don't attach personal success or failure to everything that happens anymore, that you've chosen, or you keep choosing, to take the pressure off of yourself. And I'd love to ask

(55:31):
you about that practice thatyou're constantly reminding yourself of, yes, asking for a friend, asking for me,

yes, did you have you read the surrender experiment? Yes, it's books. Yeah, transformative. I have a bunch of copies that I give to people because we all need this all the time, and this reminder, and that is not even a book like it's surprising to me how much I love that book, but mainly
because it as you're reading it,it seems so ridiculous. So many of the stories are like, This is absurd, right? Surrendering, and it keeps getting better and better and better, and it's a true story, so like, you can't dispute it, but, yeah, highly recommend. But I think so I had this conversation with this

(56:22):
woman. I mean, of course, itsounds like all I do is just sit around with psychics and your business is proof that that's not the case. Yeah, that's true, although I do have a crystal here, just in case you were wondering. Oh,

Unknown (56:37):
and I've got my crystal too. Come on, let's see with crystals. It's great.

No, I'm into it, but, but the truth is, I this woman who, at the place I was getting my nails done, is a bit of a psychic, and she said, I have a message for you. Would you like it? And I'm never gonna say no to that. She was, she's a facialist. I wasn't even seeing her. She just happened to be
there at the same time. Shecomes over and sits down next to me, and she says, So, Amy. And this, what's interesting is, I was literally just starting to think about writing this book at the time when this happened, she said, Amy, you believe that the good and the bad things that happened to you are a result of

(57:15):
you and I, you know, at first Iwas like, Oh. Like, horrified, like it makes it sound like I'm this, like, braggert and I'm running around patting myself on the back, and if anything, quite the opposite, you know, like I felt like I never gave myself any credit for anything. And in a way, yeah, I was a little

(57:38):
traumatized by this comment, butthen I thought about it more and realized that it was like taking all the pressure off because and it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier about this illusion of control, and that we all think we're in charge of something, even me being thinking I'm in charge of my
business. I mean, sure, I'mresponsible for my business, and I have some decision making abilities, but I to say I'm in charge of working control is completely insane. That I'm in control of being sane, because every day, 12 things happen that I wasn't expecting I did not, many of which I did not choose

(58:17):
or would not choose, and youknow, and some for the best, you know, but it's, it's like this illusion of control is what locks us into feeling like we can, we are we're trapped, or we have to make this decision, or we're so it's incredibly freeing when you just come to the conclusion that actually, we're
part of this other thing, right?We're part of this ecosystem. Everybody is moving around in this ecosystem, and the more in, like, micro decisions, again, a practice we can just let go of the attachment to an outcome, or the attachment to, like, defining good or bad based on what happens or how it happens,

(59:01):
the more joy there is in life.Because, you know, I, again, I was a perfectionist, and very like high achiever, and grades in school make it easy to see certain things. And now there's other measures for success, but it's and I'm still hard on myself, so let's just be very clear, like I there are times

(59:25):
that I am still practicing thisletting go, but to a large degree, I just don't get as caught up in the highs and the lows, in the same way, I don't attach so much to any of it in a way where I'm going, Oh, this is the best thing ever, or, Oh, this is the worst thing ever. And, you know, there that allows

(59:45):
me in times like, what, like,there's a challenging business thing that happened and is happening. And at first I was really thrown by it, but now I'm like, it's a part of the it's part of this ecosystem. And I could just as easily focus. On these other really epic, magical things that are happening over
here. Or I could just sit hereright, and these will go on and these will go on, and it's all part of the picture. And you know, again, you kind of never know. And that's again, going back to that story about the Olympic bid and where this job came out of left field. I could never predicted it, and it's so

(01:00:22):
much more magical than I couldhave ever imagined. That's because of the surrender, right? That was a letting go moment where I went, Oh, you know what? I can't imagine. This is for me, but I'm just gonna let it roll. Let's see what happens, right? And, yeah, you don't do that enough.

Tess Masters (01:00:41):
You know, it's this idea that we do surrender to the idea and the truth that we are part of something bigger, and that everything that happens can serve us. And you know, a lot of the book subverts your expectation or understanding of something kind of like consolations by David. Why? It's

(01:01:03):
a book that I refer to onliterally a daily basis. I love it. Our understanding of certain concepts of how we're holding certain things, and the be agreeable chapter, at first glance, appears to be antithetical to the whole notion of unleash a wild woman and be who you want to be, and be
expressive, and all the things.But then when we dive into it, it makes complete sense that that's one of the 21 calls to action. You know, social social literacy, caring for others, reading the room, being sensitive, behaving appropriately, being kind, polite, random acts of kindness,

(01:01:40):
that that is part of claimingour role as leaders of the world in terms of how we want to model loving and caring behavior. So then it can be challenging. I'm sort of thinking this out aloud, so it's sort of coming out, you know, spewing out of me as I'm thinking it through and feeling into it, this idea of being

(01:02:08):
authentic, speaking our truth,but at the same time honoring the offers of others, and how the soup that we create together in the Moment is part of this bigger picture. So how does being agreeable play out for you?

Amy Stanton (01:02:29):
I had this client a couple of years ago who was a very tough Israeli man, and he was extremely aggressive.
In ways that caught me offguard, and
yet I think his intentions weregood, but at times like the way he would negotiate and the demands were so it's off putting honestly at the time, because I and and kind of jarring, and at one point after I had already felt pretty beat up, he made a comment like, Amy, you are creating I'm trying to bring us

(01:03:18):
together. And you are. He didn'tuse this word. I've heard this word from another person, not about myself specifically, but creating against Ness. And I thought it was such an interesting concept, against Ness, right? And so now I think about that sometimes, where I go, okay, and by the way, you

(01:03:39):
use the word boundaries earlier,I don't think they're againstness and boundaries are that different. I think so. In this case, I was setting boundaries right. But then if you reframe it as againstness, it's interesting, because if there are places where we're inadvertently creating

(01:03:59):
againstness, which is theopposite of being agreeable. This is why I'm coming back. Yeah, then we unintentionally are making things harder for ourselves than we need to be, right? So I have an employee recently where I realized what she really needs from me the most. I'm not happy with, kind

(01:04:20):
of the current state of things,and it's, and she's epic person and very well intentioned, but results wise, we're not there. And and I realized she needs cheerleading. That's what she needs from me, you know? And i i So as much as I wanted to, like, set more structure and goals and all the things that I would do

(01:04:41):
for myself, yeah, I realizedwhat she needs is a different approach, which is cheerleading, and it's not agreeableness in a Oh, like, let's just pretend this isn't happening and be complacent the very different, you know, it's more of a it's an. Energy and an approach and a softness and a and again, like

(01:05:04):
kind of tapping into some of ourmore subtle superpowers around relation and relations, relational behavior. How are we interacting with each other? We We unconsciously often know what the other person needs, but we're if we're distracted by what we need in that moment, that could cloud our ability or

(01:05:29):
prevent us from even being ableto to bring that forward, which could actually help us with the sort of long term need, if you know what I mean. So

absolutely, yeah, let's talk about meeting others in that place of openness vulnerability. You talk about Brene Brown in the book, and you know her TED talk is, you know, one of the most viral, most watched TED talks in the world. It's such a beautiful exploration of vulnerability
being a superpower. So you youspoke before early on, how you surrendered. You were in your flow state. You allowed yourself to be carried by your intuition and what interested you at the time, your curiosity was something that you really anchored yourself to, or that's my interpretation of what I've

(01:06:18):
been hearing following yourdesires, that emotional and spiritual freedom, embracing uncertainty, all that sort of stuff, while you're unleashing your wild woman, as we think about it, but at the same time, removing artists artifice, making space for others, asking for help, developing that

(01:06:38):
closeness, seeing what otherpeople need, being sensitive and emotional, letting go of the responsibility for their feelings, but at the same time, tapping into what they may need. That has to be a superpower as a leader, I would imagine, you know, so that you can adjust your leadership style for each
team member, and then how youget team members to collaborate whilst at the same time sharing their service of the same mission. So talk me through you making friends with your vulnerability and not seeing it as a weakness. You call the chapter. Show your weakness, but then again, up in that and show

(01:07:21):
it as a strength. How's thatplaying out for you as you age?

I still think I'm struggling with this one truthfully. I mean, I perceive myself to be very vulnerable, but then, for some reason, others don't. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, there are times where I will have what I perceive to be a very vulnerable conversation with
someone. There they don'trespond as if it was a very vulnerable conversation. It's like they still think I'm fine, maybe because I seemed calm as I communicated this information, I have no idea. But,

and yet you cry all the time. You cry a lot. I mean,

yeah, I cry, I think, less than I used to. And maybe that's problem. Maybe I need to get back to higher crying volume and something to think about. I'll see if I can connect. Ramp up my crying and No, no, I wasn't that's No, no, I was going with that.

No, it was more just, what does that feel like for you, to feel as though you are expressing how you're feeling in the moment and wanting other people to see you and then feeling like you haven't been seen the way that you want to what does that feel like for you? The

great news is the people that are close to me, can see me and my vulnerability fully. So I have, like, certain circle of people, so you're speaking at work, is that what you mean? I don't even know, just circumstantially where I can't even think I can. Can't put my finger on one
circumstance, but I think therehave been multiple circumstances where someone I know the they that it wasn't read as vulnerability, even if I was sharing something very personal. You know, from my perspective, I and I found it odd. I do find it odd when it happens because, I mean, you can use when, when

(01:09:16):
it's a vulnerable moment. We alllean in. You know, you know that, like, just human nature to, like, lean in to help so and the truth is, like, when I'm in a vulnerable state, it's not that I need everyone to do something about it. Sometimes I just want to be heard and acknowledged and know someone is

(01:09:39):
a witness. You know, I thinkit's one of the weird things about being single, is in this moment, I am single, I it's we, as much as I have a lot of witnesses around me, like my mother and some of my very best friends who witnessed me, and all the people that I work with that see me every day. Do.

(01:10:00):
There's something that's soimportant about being seen in that way, and having someone kind of tracking you and keeping tabs, you know, and I, I think for me, in the vulnerable moments, that's what I'm looking for, is a witness and so and the crying. I mean, I don't know I could, I almost cried just then,

(01:10:24):
just a little, tiny feeling ofit almost could have happened. But I

I cry every day, multiple times a day, yeah, one expression and release and act of permission. You know, I find it really productive, if that's the right word, but,

yeah, I'm an advocate for crying, for sure. And it's

interesting, as you're speaking, I'm thinking of that Susan Sarandon speech, and shall we dance, where she talks about, why do you think people couple up? It's so that you have a witness. I will be your witness. I'm promising to care about all the things, all the little things, the big things
every day, you know. And so aconversation I had recently with somebody about how grief is meticulous in its work, and for it to mean something, it has to be witnessed. And as I, as I was exploring that concept, I thought, well, actually, every emotion actually needs, needs a witness. You know, it's sort of

(01:11:24):
how we how we validate, or howwe feel seen, or how we trust what's going on. Somehow, again, I'm finding my way into that as I'm as I'm talking to you. But one of, one of my favorite chapters of the book is love fully, you know, which is number 21 it's a beautiful way to end the book, you know, and it
really speaks to me on everylevel at any time, but particularly now where I would love for love to be a currency that's exchanged more broadly between people who disagree and is needed More than ever, recognizing that it is the most powerful force in the world, and to share it and express it is

(01:12:08):
the core of our power, but foras a force for good, as you've been communicating with us. But again, this, this flow, being in the flow of your emotions, leaving fear behind, loving with your whole heart, not holding back. So using those challenging, painful moments as training, you know, as

(01:12:28):
opportunities to learn, makinglove a daily practice. What is the loving choice for you in the moment was it was a phrase in the book that really stood out to me. So as you talk about wanting that witness, but at the same time acknowledging that you have these witnesses, what does loving fully feel like for you

(01:12:52):
and look like for you?

It's the macro and the micro. You know, I'm I come my mom's the ultimate romantic. So the

that story of her getting with the quarterback of the, you know, high school football team, that was a great story.

Yeah, she manifested that. She's a master manifester. There's no doubt about it,
and I am, too, just notromantically

yet. Yes, there you go. I'm so glad you put the yet on that.

Yes, of course, practice, yeah, for sure, I'll practice with you. Okay, great to practice that too. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think this chapter, in some ways, is the key to it, because it's loving fully, is a recognition that the giving love creates the existence of love, that that we

(01:13:48):
are entirely responsible for thelove in our life. And it is here. It is here. It is omnipresent. It is and and sometimes it's really hard to remember that because, yeah, for so many reasons, like how we feel in a moment, an experience we had, whatever the traumas from the past, heartbreak, etc.

(01:14:12):
But the you know, when I thinkof what that means in practice, it means like going all in in spite of all of that and that that could be in any kind of relationship. I mean, even this idea of the againstness and overcoming againstness, it's about what is the loving choice in the moment. It is, what is,

(01:14:33):
how do we approach this? Ifthat's our Mo is and not in a cheesy we're just going to be loving all the time, not getting work done, or we're going to just be to just be loving all the time, even if people aren't receiving us or responding that way. Like the truth is, we get to choose how we show up, and
that, in many ways, is thedeterminant of not just how others perceive us or experience us, but how we feel. Yeah, so that's I. Think at the heart of this chapter, which is the loving fully is what brings the maximum love in our life.

It's up to us. Yeah, I want to read just a couple of sentences from the book that really sum up the message of this beautiful book, take control, even though we've sort of upended what control is. But take control and let go. Be good and be wild. Dream big and take action. Take care of others

(01:15:32):
and let yourself be taken careof. Be mysterious and be open. Lean in and lean back. Be Your Glorious, complex, powerful self. You don't just contain contradictions. You embrace them. You celebrate them. Find yours and make them sing. That is what I'm going to take away from this book, among many other

(01:15:56):
things. So thank you for thisbeautiful offering the one, one of the many things about books is that they're there in print. It's a scary thing once you've written it and you can't change it, but it's there is this beautiful offering that sits in people's homes and in their hearts, and this book will
certainly sit in mind. So thankyou for for it. So I always close every episode with the same question, which is, when you have a dream in your heart and you feel like you don't have what it takes to make it happen, what do you say to yourself?

This is the moment where
the surrender comes in. Youknow, I say it's and my grandfather. So two things, my grandfather was sort of the source of all these one liners that I that live in my consciousness constantly. Um, he, one of his lines is, it will all work out in the end, and if it hasn't worked out, it's not

(01:17:08):
the end. Yes. And then another,which I literally have imprinted on so many different things, because I like as many of these reminders around as possible. He would always say, keep smiling.

Oh, that's a lovely place to to button this for today. For today, yeah. Thank you for how you show up in the world, and thank you for how you champion other people that are changing the world and being a force for good.

Thank you, Tess, I loved our conversation. Thanks for all of your thoughtfulness. Yay.

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