July 17, 2025 • 73 mins
Struggling to cope with male abuses of power? Amir Khalighi, founder of Embodied Masculine™, shares how he works helping men connect with themselves, and identify and express their needs with genuine respect for feminine energy and for women.
Raised by a single mother, without a positive male role model, Amir fell into a spiral with drugs and alcohol. He recounts his journey from addiction to sobriety, and how meeting men at peace with themselves motivated him to embrace sovereignty, somatic wisdom, and sacred responsibility.
With the help of male elders, men’s groups, and embodiment practices, Amir healed his fractured sense of self. He began mentoring other men seeking direction and purpose.
Amir describes the void left by the absence of father figures and the responsibility that conscious men feel about toxic masculinity. He gets into how he helps men navigate grief and give expression to it, and understand their hunger for guidance, purpose, and validation.
We discuss the importance of mentorship and community in shaping a loving expression of masculinity. Amir explains how men can move from disconnection to devotion through initiations, rituals, somatics, and honest conversations with other men committed to fully embodied awareness.
Taking us inside the dynamics of his marriage, Amir shares how he uses his experiences to guide other men to share their vulnerability, celebrate women, and form intimate relationships.
Amir’s philosophy: Look into your heart with courage, and take responsibility for your actions. When things get hard, lean forward, and welcome the breakthrough that leads to clarity and healing.
TESS’S TAKEAWAYS:
- Boys are born, men are made.
- Healthy masculinity meets strength with reverence, not domination.
- True masculine integrity honors the divine feminine so men can celebrate women.
- Initiation ceremonies honor life transitions to promote awareness and self-actualization.
- Somatic practices help men connect with their needs through movement and sound.
- Men’s circles allow men to safely express themselves and mentor each other.
- Men need other men. Community support is vital for healing and self-discovery.
- Elders modeling positive masculinity anchor younger generations.
ABOUT AMIR
Founder of Embodied Masculine™, Amir Khalighi works as a teacher, coach, and speaker, helping men step into their power and live purpose-driven lives.
Amir’s own journey into self-actualization started with study of existential philosophy and comparative religion. In his 20s and 30s, he helped men with addictive behaviors into recovery through martial arts and other practices. His approach integrates Jungian psychology, somatic healing, shamanism, embodiment methodology, yogic intimacy, Celtic mythology, Sufi mysticism, and mythopoetic men’s work.
In coaching, workshops, men’s circles, initiation programs, and facilitator training, Amir builds communities where men find role models and ways to embody their male energies in loving paradigms of masculinity balanced with feminine counterparts.
Working with men from all walks of life, from Fortune 500 CEOs, influencers, and artists to young men finding their paths, Amir speaks at and facilitates men’s events around the world.
Through his website BelovedPoetry.com, Amir shares his love of poems, presenting the works of Rumi, Hafiz, Neruda, and others.
CONNECT WITH AMIR
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tess Masters (00:01):
Oh, Amir, I am excited to dive in with you
about the work that you're doingso beautifully with men. I want
to go back a bit first aboutyour journey into this work that
it has to be me for you tochange what you were doing in
your 20s and have a differentrelationship with self. Tell me
(00:25):
about meeting some of those menthat had what you wanted.
Amir Khaligi (00:30):
Well, thank you first of all for inviting me to
have this conversation with you.I'm excited to go down whatever
alley you take us. So at the ageof 22 I had pretty much burned
all my bridges, and I wasstanding to lose quite a bit,
(00:54):
and I saw an opportunity for andthat was in the realm of drugs
and alcohol. So I got sober atthe age of 23 and I was in the
AA program for almost a quarterof a century, 25 years. And we
can talk about why I chose toleave, if you want, at some
point. But as far as I mean, Ipretty much stumbled and took an
(01:21):
opportunity that presenteditself. I had enough wherewithal
to see it for what it was, and Istepped through a window that
was open, and that windowafforded me into a reprieve from
the chaos and the darkness thatI was living in, and the first
(01:44):
man that I saw on that path hadgone to speak at a college, and
at that time, the person I wasmy fiance, at that time from my
previous marriage, was going tothis health class. Saw this
person speak, gave me theirnumber. I reached out, and he
(02:06):
said, meet me at Chili's inNorthridge. This was 30 years
ago, maybe more. I was 23 I'm 54so just over 30 years, and I
thought I was hips looking cool.I walked in my head long greasy
(02:29):
hair, but my face was caved in.I was neurotic. I couldn't sit
still for a moment in my ownbody. And here's this guy. I saw
him. I knew it was him, just anolder man, probably my age, now,
sitting in this booth, and therewas something about him. There
(02:51):
was almost a glow about him.There was something about him
that I did not have. I did nothave a sense of self. There was
no settling in my own body.There was no comfort. And oddly
enough, his daughter workedthere, and the way that his
daughter and him communicated,the exchange between them, the
(03:14):
tenderness, the openness, therewas nothing I had in my life.
Everything I had up to thatpoint was pretentious. I was I
was very distant from myself, tosay the least. So this man had a
sense of self. The words thatcame out meant something had
weight to them. Yeah, and he wasmy first semblance to what it
(03:42):
means to be a man, to walk as aman, to speak as a man. And
subsequently, I met other men inthat program that exemplified
what it means to walk around asa man. And I it put me on a
trajectory of self, selfdiscovery, healing and
(04:08):
ultimately self actualization.
Tess Masters (04:13):
Yeah, so being, being a person, and I won't call
you a man yet before you, youalways say, boys are born and
men are made in your community.So in your early 20s, what was
it in you that allowed that inwhat was it where you were able
(04:38):
to receive it? It
Amir Khaligi (04:41):
had nothing to do with me. It was the closest
thing I can say is somesemblance of grace, where there
was a moment of clarity, where Idid not want to live that way
anymore. That was not my road,and I knew that that would
ultimately result in death. I.It at what I was doing, at the
rate that I was doing it, yeah,and I didn't want that,
Tess Masters (05:07):
yeah. So growing up with being raised by a
single, you know, a mother, andnot having those male role
models in your life to show youwhat a man could be, until you
met this mentor. What was itlike stepping into the realm of
(05:28):
men? What was that like for you?
Amir Khaligi (05:36):
Well, I think I had to learn what it felt like
to trust men, I had to learnwhat it felt like to begin to
come to terms with the fact thatmost of my life came through the
prism of my Mother's lens. Andthat's why you know, that's why
(06:02):
initiations in indigenouscultures are so valuable,
because they bring attentioncommunity heart to a separation
that is natural that needs tohappen for men. Men need to
sever their ties with theirmothers and in order to be on
(06:23):
the road of self actualization,and all that really means is
that the dynamic needs to shift.The way they relate to each
other needs to shift. And formen that have father wounds
raised by women, most of most ofus children, start taking on the
(06:44):
responsibilities of the husband.We be, we become the patient
ear. We become a source ofsolace, and we start to we're
completely inadequate equippedfor such. It's not right, but we
want to mitigate the chaos thatis happening in a woman who is
(07:08):
trying to survive and raise achild in this world,
Tess Masters (07:14):
right? And so what was that like for you, where you
had seen the world through thelens of your mother, and then
you enter this world, and thenyou you initiated yourself, or
you were initiated in adifferent way.
Amir Khaligi (07:29):
Well, it was self initiation through drugs and
alcohol. It's the best way Icould describe it. It was, you
know, looking back, I can saythat there was a part of me that
needed to make that separation.Didn't know how to make that
separation, and I did it in thein the worst way possible, where
I hurt myself and I hurteveryone around me, but it did
put me on the other side, andthus began my spiritual path at
(07:53):
the age of 23 and it put me on Aroad to work, to ultimately work
with men,
Tess Masters (08:03):
yeah, so take me into that. It has to be me,
where you had done a lot of workhealing yourself, and then what
was that, that trajectory whereyou then claimed your role to
shepherd it for other men.
Amir Khaligi (08:25):
I think for me, I always there was something in me
that wanted to support men. Icouldn't really understand it,
and I did it for a long timejust through sponsoring other
men in AA. So that's that becamekind of a template, and then
ultimately, other, you know,men's groups. And then I went
(08:49):
into martial arts, and I startedmentoring through martial arts.
And I really always, I alwaysdid it as something that fed my
soul. I never got paid for it,and it wasn't until 2018 where I
was invited to teach at a men'sretreat of about 40 men in the
(09:11):
desert. And I was also invitedto participate, and I got a lot
more than I gave i i i in thereceiving of some of those
practices. This is back in 2018I had some somatic releases that
really, I think, were in the wayof the clarity of the totality
(09:35):
of my purpose, or the second actof my life. It really all came
together. And up until then, Iused to always. I used to also
be a professional actor. For 10years. I came back from that,
from that retreat, I called myagent. I said, I'm done. Just
(09:56):
close everything. Closeeverything. And I couldn't
quite. Do that with the businessthat was paying for everything.
So I started to really move inthe direction of birthing this,
this thing that that wanted tobe birthed uniquely through me.
And I started to listen in adifferent way. I started to tune
(10:18):
into my heart instead of myhead, and I started to begin to
walk in the unknown.Subsequently, I had walked away
from AA because that felt like amarriage that had completed, and
I was moving into the spiritualunknown simultaneously and
(10:39):
coming away from that richretreat, I knew that, and with
there was a few other instancesthat crystallized this for me,
but I really understood my workin the world based off of my
history. And being in thismoment, I came to a realization
that most of the pain that iscaused in the tear in the fabric
(10:59):
of humanity in life is done byunconscious men. It's by it
comes through a level ofdisconnection and
unconsciousness, whether that'sin relationship or running a
business or building an empireor running a country. It has. It
comes from a level ofunconsciousness that gives men
(11:20):
permission to tear at the fabricof our planet, for example. And
I started to really move towardsanimism and shamanism, and I
started to become apractitioner, kind of a closet
shaman, for a practitioner foryears.
(11:42):
Do didn't really go out of thecloset a deep desire to share my
search with others on thatsearch, and I found a teacher
that I studied with her for ayear, and it was wonderful just
(12:03):
to come out and, you know, playin that realm and get feedback
and see things from differentperspectives. And it just really
put me into into that space. Andit, you know, shamanism and
animism have deeply impacted mymy the way I work with men, and
it's brought a deep reverence tothe manifest, to to the when I
(12:25):
say the manifest is to find theholy in what is already here.
Instead of trying to look out tofind God, I found it by going
in. So I, I, I, that's what I dowith the men that I work, we
come to terms with what is itthat has captivated their
attention and that isdisconnected them from
(12:48):
themselves, the dependenciesthat they have or that, or the
stories they bought into thatthey need to begin to
systematically let go of, tobegin to free fall into this
relationship, into their heart.And I really believe that's
where the divine lives. It'sit's in the chambers of the
(13:09):
heart. I believe that a sense ofour higher self lives in the
chambers of the heart. So a lotof my work became about
connecting men to themselves andto the natural world. And all my
programs include, like, an hourof silence in nature as part of
the curriculum, you know, sobecoming aware of the reverence
(13:35):
that is within and if it'swithin me, that's within you,
and if it's within you that I'mgoing to treat you with
reverence.
Tess Masters (13:44):
Tell me a little bit more about these somatic
releases that were so powerfulout in the desert that invited
you to step into your role as aleader in this way.
Amir Khaligi (13:57):
Yeah. So one of the inquiries that was
suggested, invited for everyoneto kind of ponder with was like,
Okay, well, what is it thatbrought you here? Now for me, it
was twofold. One, I was asked bymy friend to come teach, but I
also said yes, because a part ofme really was exhausted, and I
(14:23):
was exhausted, and I wanteddistance from the immediate
women in my life. Now, I havebeen blessed to be around women
my entire life. I come from mydad's side of the family.
There's four siblings, tons ofchildren. I'm the only boy I
have four daughters. I you know,the closest people to me are my
(14:45):
mother, my you know my wife,obviously my my children, my
mother and my sister. So it'sjust that's been my Eco sphere.
But I was like, I was askingmyself, well, what? What is it?
I was just like. I need, I needa break. I need I need space. I
need space. And I was like,Well, why do you need space? So
(15:09):
I started to sit with theinquiry, and the inquiry was
like, Oh, I don't drawboundaries. I just say yes to
everything when it comes tothese women, yes, right? So now
we're pointing back to themother, right? Pleasing the
mother, making sure she's okay,and, you know, everything she's
holding now I'm playing it outin my immediate life. I'm
exhausting myself because I'mnot honoring my own boundaries.
(15:33):
I'm not honoring my own yesesand nos in relationships. So
what is and then, you know, theinquiry kept going deeper and
deeper, until we stepped intothis practice, and one of the
root causes that I feltresponsible for my mother's well
being, her physical well beingand her emotional well being.
(15:55):
And this is going to get alittle intimate, but I'll share
it with you. My mother's secondhusband was physically abusive
to her, and I witnessed this asa young child, and I remember it
once my mother was pregnant withmy sister or my half sister, I
(16:18):
called she's my sister, and Iremember there was a fight, and
we were in Costa Rica at thetime, and he started to beat
her. He started to beat her witha suitcase. And I, I was frozen
(16:39):
at that. I was, I was 12 yearsold. Maybe, you know, I couldn't
physically do anything about it.I couldn't say anything. I was
frozen. I wanted to freezestate. And in the somatic
practice, I, you know, we weresitting with the inquiry of,
(17:01):
well, what is it the what iswhat is it the root of this,
that this came up for me, thisincident came up for me, and in
this practice, what thepractitioners are invited to
experience is, in your you're ina group of five. So there's,
let's say me, who's going to bein the practice there's going to
(17:23):
be there are three men holdingme. So there's one man behind
me. He's holding my holding mefrom the back. There are two
guys facing this way, holding myleft and right arm. There's the
the fourth man is in front ofme, role playing. The
(17:45):
stepfather. And the invitationis when I say, go, you go, you
say what you need to say. Youscream, you go, you, you
everything that didn't come out.And I you get, you get an
(18:06):
opportunity to revisit and andfinish that cycle. And I and I
said, I hope you guys know whatyou're doing, because I will
kill that. I if I get my handson that guy who I know is here
to there's going to be aproblem. Now, you got to
(18:28):
remember, by this time, I hadthree black belts. I had gone. I
was, I'm a trained martialartist. I spent all those years
of not feeling safe, making sureI felt safe in the world. Yes,
when I was seven years old, Iused to have to, like, pretend
there was a force field aroundme, just so I could feel safe to
(18:49):
go to sleep. That's becausethere's no masculine presence in
the space. When there is agrounded masculine presence, you
feel safe. You don't even knowwhy? Hmm. I said, I hope you
guys know what you're doing.They said, We know what we're
doing. And I and I went, I Iscreamed, I clawed, I went. They
(19:16):
had another person had to comesupport. And I, I even got
tricky. I said, Okay, I'm goingto pretend. I'm gonna, like,
fall down that I'm done, andthen I'm gonna go again. In the
split second I did that, theystill grabbed me until I was
spent, until I was exhausted,and I was spent, and I
collapsed, and I laid down, andI looked up and I saw all these
(19:41):
men looking down at me with suchlove, with such love. So they
were pouring now their love intome as I was revisiting that
moment, because it felt thesame. I was still frozen. I
couldn't move forward. I. Butthis time, I expressed
everything I needed to express,and I swear it was almost like a
(20:11):
prayer had been answered. Itjust took a long time, and these
guys looking down were like theangels that were like in that
moment with me again, andhealing started to happen. And I
released that. I released thataround him, my stepfather and
(20:35):
and, you know, everything thatcomes with that, everything that
comes with that. And I reallybelieve, you know, clarity comes
from really cleaning up thistemple body. And I, you know,
that's what I deal with. Man, wewe clean up this temple body so
we can begin to tune in to whatis our purpose here? Why are we
(21:02):
here? What are we here to do? Sowhen we get to the end, we can
transition with ease, knowing wedid, or at least we fully gave
it everything we had. Oh
Tess Masters (21:13):
yes to that. How do you help men open the pathway
to that?
Amir Khaligi (21:25):
Well, that that's such a great question, because
it's a mystery on what createsthe opening and willingness in
one person and not in anotherperson? Yes, it's such a
mystery, but it it's the menthat take a step into the
(21:47):
unknown from that point ofreceiving that. We'll call it
Grace window, that window ofopportunity that's showered in
grace. Those that take thewindow, those that actually step
through it, I don't know why Imade it a window, not a door,
but here we are, those that takea step forward into the unknown.
(22:12):
That willingness is what bringsmen to my community and others
like it, and what they do fromthat point, it's all contingent
on their willingness to stoprunning away from shadows,
(22:32):
aspects of self, to stop runningaway from wounds, to stop living
altruistic lives that areunconscious to what's running
them to slow down enough andbecome willing to actually stop,
turn around and start facingthese things. And in community,
(22:53):
we work on these things, whetherit's through shadow work or
limiting beliefs or picking uptools and dealing with bringing
more presence and freedom of ourattention to the table. I mean,
these are all aspects of what gointo one of the programs that I
run.
Tess Masters (23:12):
Yeah, there's beauty in working one on one
with people, which I know youdo. And then there's also beauty
in community work. So tell meabout the power of what happens
when men come together in thatintimate, trusting way.
Amir Khaligi (23:37):
Men. Men need men. Men Men need men, you know,
there's, there's a, there's asharpness that we can handle
with one
Tess Masters (23:49):
another. Ooh, tell me about that.
Amir Khaligi (23:55):
When, when we are in a safe container, when it's
established that, like, this isa safe container. This is not
hierarchical, you know, and Ireally try incredibly hard to
make sure my space is that is acircle. And when there's trust
within the container, men canget really honest with each
(24:15):
other and how they show up andwhat it is that they're not
seeing other men can really comein and be like, Hey, Brother,
let me you know i i heard you. Ihear what this, what you're
saying here. But let me tell youwhat I see. And men take that
really well with with eachother. So that's one aspect.
(24:38):
Another aspect is when new mencome into into men's work, they
are all over the place. They areerratic. They are their nervous
systems are shot. They'reconstantly people pleasing.
They're worried about whatsomeone's going to think or what
they're going to say, like andjust being around other men that
(24:59):
are alone. Little bit furtheralong the path. The resonance
takes care of a lot of it. Beingin community really does a lot.
There's a quick story I'll tellyou about these, these
elephants, back in the I thinkit was early 80s, they there was
(25:19):
an African reserve where theywere seeing some really weird
behavior from these teenelephants. Couldn't understand
that they were being incrediblyviolent, like nothing. There's a
stage they go into called Sethand but this was nothing they
had ever seen before, and theybrought the specialist. And I'm
(25:41):
going to tell the story reallyquick, just to get to the point.
The specialist observed them forvery just a few minutes, and he
said, Where are the bullelephants? They said, Oh, we
couldn't afford them when webought them, so we just bought
the babies and the mothers. Andhe's like, Okay, I know what's
happening here, right? So theseteens are on a rampage. So they
(26:05):
go and they bring, like, half adozen bull elephants, and within
days, just by the essence andpresence of these bull
elephants, these teen elephantsself regulate. Yeah, they begin
to self regulate. So communityabsolutely right? Like
(26:26):
initiations should not happen ina vacuum, right? Like we need
to, we need to be a livingexample of what it means to be a
man today, like through andthrough. That's why, in my work,
also like relationship to thefeminine is an incredibly
(26:50):
important pillar in our work.
Tess Masters (26:54):
Yeah, tell me about that you said before,
about the relationship with yourmother and feeling responsible
for her safety. How do yourespect the feminine, allow it
in and not feel responsible forthe feminine energy of the
(27:20):
females in your life, like, howdo you help men hold that
balance? Well,
Amir Khaligi (27:30):
I think first and foremost,
I think in order to answer thatquestion, I have to talk about
power and men and men and power.When I say men and power, what's
the first thing that you thinkof like collectively,
Tess Masters (27:55):
toxic masculinity?
Amir Khaligi (27:57):
Thank you. That is that, that is, that is in the
collective unconscious orconscious, and it's a real
thing, because for formillennia, Men have abused
(28:18):
power, right? They've abusedpower, and they've abused, I
personally believe this givesthem they, you know, they abuse
nature itself. You can see theunconscious behavior towards how
we relate to animals, to thenatural world. The feminine is
(28:40):
the eminence of nature, thefeminine is the Chosen vessel
for creation. Do you know howmuch power is in that that is
nothing a man can touch? So aman can either be in reverence
and awe to that kind of power,or it can begin to do what
(29:05):
patriarchal systems have triedto do for 5000 years, which is
try to control nature andcontrol women.
Tess Masters (29:16):
Make sense? Yes, we
Amir Khaligi (29:18):
see it in religion. Put a burqa on it,
clip the clitoris, child wives.I mean, this is still going on,
so there is no men's workwithout be bringing into
consciousness what that is menneed to learn to work with, and
(29:44):
as a result, many men that Iwork with don't want to have
fucking anything to do withpower. They don't want to step
into their power, because thatequals toxic masculinity. That
if I do that, then I'll be thispart of my work is aligning men
(30:07):
to allow themselves to step intopower, but not self generated
power, power that is alignedwith their purpose, that is
designed for them tointrinsically take their
rightful place in the healing ofthemselves and this planet that
(30:32):
directly connects us torelationship to the feminine.
The feminine is to be notcontrolled. The the feminine is
to be witnessed, to be listenedto their you know, men wouldn't
go to war unless the Oracle saidit's a good time to go to war.
(30:55):
There is something. There's alost art of the way we see
women, the way we see the theevidence of women and how we
hold them. Most women, from myexperience and understanding,
try to tone down theirbrilliance and their right,
their their fire, because, youknow, you can't have one without
(31:23):
the other, right? And there's,there's some movements in, in
in, in the world that I work in,in this world where only you
know, in the in polarity work,where it's like, oh, these
flavors of women, no man. Womenare multi dimensional, like
(31:43):
seven headed dragon and MotherTeresa and like all of it and
your desire to try to cage thatcontrol that you're gonna lose
you ah, the grass will alwaysgrow through the cement.
Tess Masters (32:09):
Yeah, oh, I you said before about helping men
sit with themselves in all partsof themselves, whether it's
through shadow work and notrunning away from the sharp
edges and having that notnecessarily have to be toxic
(32:34):
masculinity, that we can embraceour power in whatever form it
comes and be holding it withcare so that we're using it in a
way that serves our purpose. Ifthat's the right way to
summarize what you've beensaying. For me, what I hear is
(32:56):
permission. So how do you helpmen give themselves permission
to have a full embodiedexperience with themselves and
then others and the world?
Amir Khaligi (33:14):
Perfect question. So for the past six years, once
a week. Men come from all aroundthe world. On Wednesday nights
from six to 8pm Beau's beencoming for six years. Our friend
Yes, one of the staples in ourcommunity, yeah. And men through
(33:38):
various types of practices thatI bring from different
traditions and modalities get toexperience the bandwidth of
their own pull from masculinepull to feminine pull. Masculine
essence, practices thatcultivate depth, breadth and
(34:02):
depth of consciousness andpresence, various types of
practices that we that, that Ibring and feminine embodiment,
practices which are reallygeared towards men giving
themselves permission, forexpression, for movement, for
sound, and ultimately, immersioninto the field of everything
(34:27):
that is right, they begin tonavigate their own inner
landscape. And as they do, theydeepen their capacity for the
masculine pull they get to theyget to overdo it. They get to
play. It's like being inrehearsal. You get to try things
(34:47):
that won't maybe work, but youget to try them right? And as
they, as they maneuver up anddown this line, they come across
internally. Internal edges thatthey'll get to work with. So
growing up, let's say you weretold as a boy, stop acting that
(35:08):
way. That's that's stop beingso, you know, who knows like how
they were shamed as kids, right?You know, you a boy is dancing,
and his dad, like, says thatthat's boys don't, don't. Boys
don't do that. Or however, theshame came in. Shame is really
nothing more than a noose thattightens itself around life
(35:31):
force, energy. That's what shameis. So for them, in practice
sessions, they get anopportunity to be with that boy,
and they get to work in thatspace of I maybe I can open my
voice and just make a soundhere. Maybe I can just move my
body, oh, my God. Likeeveryone's gonna think, like all
(35:52):
the stuff happens, and they'renow working with that. It's a
lab
Tess Masters (35:59):
they're working on that to lab.
Amir Khaligi (36:03):
They're working, they're practicing. That's not
how they're going to go live.They you know you come and you
practice and you explore and youexpress and you confront and you
sit and you cry and you heal andyou experience joy, and you're
expanding your capacity andyou're, you're you're
identifying new depth of your ofyour reach, and we're building
(36:30):
community at the same time.
Tess Masters (36:32):
And what's that like for you, shepherding people
to the edges and the depths ofplaces they have not explored
before, within themselves and byextension, you are also going to
those places with them. Whatdoes that teach you as the man
(36:55):
that you are now?
Amir Khaligi (36:58):
Yeah. First, of all, it's an honor to really be
in that field with men and tomake sure that they're safe and
to guide them through thesedifferent practices. It's an
absolute honor, like for me, youknow, I'm sitting there on a
screen, you know, every week,unless I'm in person, which is a
(37:20):
whole other amazing experience.And I see them. I see them going
into the crevices. I see thembreaking apart. I see them
trying to gather themselves. Isee them overcoming. I see them
sitting with grief. I see themsitting with loss, and I see the
transformation, and to witnessthat, and to be a part of the
fabric that is holding thatbecause I am a part of the
(37:42):
fabric, I'm in the field withthem, is incredibly rewarding.
It's incredibly rewarding. And Ihave to also remember this, you
know, I'm simply answering mycalling, and that is enough. You
know, I can't let the ego get inthe way. I can't, you know, I
(38:04):
can't be, you know, guru orteacher like and people will
want to project certain thingsto people in position that, you
know, I am a teacher. Theposition is different, so I have
to have a level of consciousnessaround that it can be a lonely
(38:25):
spot at times. Oh, tell me aboutthat.
You know, I work a lot, and soI'm in this position, this
dynamic with other people quiteoften. And it's kind of like a
(38:45):
father, archetypal figure thatnaturally, the dynamic, the
dynamic, sometimes puts me in,and I just have to be also
cognizant of, like, you know,transference. I don't know if
you're familiar with that term.It's a union term, yes, yes. So
I have to be really cognizant.Like, sometimes, you know, we
(39:08):
have a large community, andthere is a percentage of people
that also have, you know, stuffaround their fathers that may
want to project it onto me. AndI just need to be really
cognizant of the role that Iplay in people's lives, and it
doesn't give me a lot of timefor friendships. To be honest
(39:30):
with you, I almost, I almostdon't really, I see my my wife
is so good at being like, havingfriends like, she's just like,
you know, and I have people thatare my friends that I can call,
and they're like, there for me,but I don't do a lot of, like,
small talk with people. I'vegotten more private as I've
(39:51):
gotten older, and naturally, Ithink sometimes I just fall into
that archetypal. Position withpeople. So it creates a little
bit of like feeling feelingalone.
Tess Masters (40:09):
What does it stir up in you being placed in that
father or placing yourself alsoin that father archetype when
you didn't have it yourself asthat little boy that was
screaming up against the abuserin the desert with those men and
(40:30):
revisiting that place within thework. So how does that rub up
against you while you're doing
Amir Khaligi (40:37):
I feel like I'm being fed. To be honest with
you, I feel like the fact that Iam doing what, and yet it feels
lonely at times, okay, yeah, attimes I and I've just gotten, I
used to be a lot more social.I've gotten a little bit
socially awkward, I think aswell, I don't really know. I'm
(41:00):
still in flux
Tess Masters (41:02):
as as as we all are, I'm just, it's, it's, it's
of interest to me while you'reholding space for others. I i
And we may find our way back tothat in just a minute, when you
were speaking before about thedivine feminine and and the
power of women and how it'sgoing to win every time. What is
(41:27):
it like for you being anembodied male and exploring the
sharp edges of your and thebeautiful places of your
masculinity and your and yourfeminine energy being in
intimate relationship withCarrie, who is living in an
embodied experience of thefeminine, and the two of you
(41:50):
working together to shepherdthat beautifully for other
people. How do you take up thatinvitation and hold that because
she brings a lot of power. Andso do you what's that? What's
that like?
Amir Khaligi (42:10):
Well, you know, my wife and I definitely, the stars
brought us together, you know,because we have, first and
foremost, really awakened ourgifts to one another, our coming
together. I was I was not doingwhat I'm doing before I met her,
(42:33):
I was doing versions of helpingmen on the side, and I was
running businesses. You know, Ihad different businesses
throughout my life. It wasn'tuntil 2018 Carrie and I met 10
years ago, so I really believewe awakened our gifts. And she's
(42:54):
been a champion of, you know, Icame to her, I said, Look, this
is what I'm doing. This is inthe middle of, like, mortgages
and children, lot of pain. I'mlike, guess what? I'm leaving
everything, ultimately, thisother business as well, and, and
I walked away from the businessthat was paying for everything
after a year and a half, andshe's like, she's like, Of
(43:16):
course you are. Like, like,yeah. And so she, you know,
she's, she's been, you know, asteadfast supporter and
believer. And in order to fullystep into our power, our the
stuff that's personal, the stuffthat we've needed to work on has
(43:37):
come up, head has has to comeup. It has to come up like what
it triggers. It triggers aroundwhatever my stuff is and
whatever her stuff is, like weperfectly match in a way to
bring the stuff that is keepingus from our self actualization
(43:59):
full expression, and we've hadto really take a good look at
ourselves in marriage, andthat's really hard, because it's
really easy to just be as longas you just, if you would have
just acted differently, I'd feelDifferent, right? If you just,
(44:21):
if you could just containyourself, right? Me again trying
to like, if I was to like, sheis a powerful woman. There is no
controlling that woman, and nothere, nor should there be. She
needs. She my wife should feelfree in every way that she
(44:42):
wants. Obviously, we haveagreements about the garden that
we live in, right? I mean, weboth have principles and like,
you know monogamy and certain,you know trust. But as far as
her, like, I should all she, Ishould be a champion for her and
she a champion. For me and weboth should feel free in this
relationship, and we do,
Tess Masters (45:06):
yes. What does feeling free mean to you?
Amir Khaligi (45:14):
To be a completely, you know,
transparent myself and to revealmyself freely, to express my
needs freely without feeling adependency on her, to to answer
those needs and to feel, feel,you know, feel safe to express
(45:44):
myself in any way that I wantyou know that I that I need to
and her as well, and not to takeeverything so personally, like,
you know what? Like, sometimesyou just need to hold space and
let her rage. Let her rage. It'snot about me, it's she. She
needs to rage right now, right?So, you know, for a guy who grew
(46:09):
up with feeling responsible forhis mother's emotional well
being and physical well beingand not paying attention to my
own boundaries, well you get apowerful woman like that, I'm
going to be called up to work.Yes, I'm going to be called up
so she raises me
Tess Masters (46:30):
Yes, and you to her, want to ask you about being
called up to hold parts ofyourself that are more
challenging you spoke beforeabout men wanting to people
please or to please society ormeet the expectations of
(46:52):
constructions. As a female,listening to that, I think to
myself, gosh, I want to getinside of that a bit more,
because as women, we go awarealways people pleasing the men
aren't. You know, that'stypically the construction that
(47:12):
we attach to so take the insideof what men are feeling in your
experience and your ownexperience of of plea, wanting
to please, and how that gets inthe way of you feeling free to
express yourself,
Amir Khaligi (47:34):
if you're if you're people pleasing you, you
are not tuned in to you, to thetruth, Essence of Your
expression, right? You're you'remore concerned about the impact
of the conversation and whetheryou can handle it or not, or
what are they gonna like you'vecompletely left you. There is no
(48:01):
freedom without a sense of self.There is no freedom without the
ability to be able to expressyour needs, express your
boundaries. People pleasing robsus of authenticity, of intimacy,
(48:29):
fear, really.
Tess Masters (48:33):
And what is it in your experience of working with
men and also being on and inthis journey with yourself, what
is it in men? And I know this isa gross generalization I'm
asking you to make, becausewe're all unique beings. What is
(48:56):
the construction or theattachment that leads men to
believe that they should bedoing that.
Amir Khaligi (49:07):
Well, I really think society plays an unhealthy
role in shaping men. So when youdon't have, you know, we don't,
you know, there's no villagewhere the men can be examples,
really, right? There's thisfragmentation and the very sad
(49:32):
reality that young boys arefaced with, and young girls as
well, and in a different way,is, is you know through this
screen, you know this is what'sraising them. And you know boys,
you know, are raised in pornculture, and girls think they
(49:53):
have to abdicate themselves andlook a certain way to be
accepted. And. And it's just aperversion of connection, and
the end result is a deepdisconnection from self and a
lack of fulfillment in life, orworse or worse, where it can
(50:16):
take where it can take teens. SoI think society plays a big
role. I think our parentsgrowing up play a role, and
there are no systems in place,really, to honor and witness the
(50:37):
transitions that we experienceas humans in life. One being, of
course, you know the initiationfor a boy, but you know when,
when a, you know when a, when ayoung girl begins her moon
cycle? And I mean there we'velost the essence like I $150,000
(51:04):
Bar Mitzvah has lost
Tess Masters (51:06):
the essence. Oh, my goodness, yes,
Amir Khaligi (51:09):
lost the essence.
Tess Masters (51:11):
How do you hold the essence of how you would
like to shepherd these youngpeople in your life being a
father to four girls, how hasthis work changed the way that
you view that, that sacred dutyin society? You spoke earlier
(51:37):
about looking at your mentor andthe way he spoke to his
daughter. How does the work thatyou do with men continue to
inform the way that you speak toyour daughters and initiate them
for one of a better word, intothe being of of themselves in a
(51:59):
healthy way?
Amir Khaligi (52:00):
Wow, I really wish I had the same influence and
impact on my men that I do on mydaughters.
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Youknow, I was speaking to a man
today who was having just areally hard time with his 24
(52:23):
year old the first time I'd methim, and he was just besides
himself. And, you know? And Ireminded him, I said, you know,
man, it's possible I could saythe very exact same thing to
your son that you did a weekago, and he'll be like, Oh, my
God, this is profound. Yes. SoSo look, parenting, parenting, I
(52:51):
believe, is the biggestchallenge we are handed in in
the path of love, patience,acceptance acceptance and
spiritual growth. And these fourhave certainly, in their own
way, made me the man I am today.I used to have long hair,
Tess Masters (53:21):
yeah, yeah, oh, gosh, that's so funny. I I want
to ask you about being alone andfeeling lonely, you know, in in
the role of leader and in therelationships that you form now,
(53:44):
how does your private work withyourself and reminding yourself
to that you are in a safe placewith yourself and the trust that
you've cultivated withinyourself in your private
practice. How would you likethat to develop moving forward,
(54:06):
so that you can feel less lonelysometimes in the work that
you're doing?
Amir Khaligi (54:12):
Did my wife put you up to that question? No such
a great
Tess Masters (54:16):
question. Moment, I'm such a curious myself.
Amir Khaligi (54:20):
Yeah, it's such a it's, it's a poignant question,
because historically, I I'm notbatting well, not batting I'm
not batting Well, yeah, I Yes,yes, yeah, yeah. I tend to hold
beyond my capacity. I tend to, Ifeel that in you Yeah, take on
(54:45):
more clients. I tend to outputmore than I do. And listen, I
teach a facilitator trainingprogram that's like, we have a
whole thing on, like, you know,taking care of oneself and
energetic high. Machine, andthere's, you know, those things
I do, but I'm not great at it.I'm not great at like, oh, let's
(55:09):
go. I'm gonna meet so and so forcoffee, and then we'll go, I
don't know, bow and arrows orlike, do I just,
Tess Masters (55:21):
yeah, no, I what I'm hearing, and you can correct
me if I'm not interpreting thisin the way that you would like
being able to hold, hold yourcalling and what it means to you
in balance with your self care.Yeah, what I hear is that,
Amir Khaligi (55:45):
yeah, no, you're, you're, you're very on point. I
really, yeah, I hold what I doin the world as sacred
Absolutely, and I I treat it assuch, and I tend to it as such,
the same way I do with mymarriage. I believe what we have
is a Sacred Garden, and I tendto it in that way. And I'm
(56:10):
embarrassed to say that my ownrelationship to my own personal
garden, there's some weeds thatneed to be, to be Ooh.
Tess Masters (56:20):
Why? Why embarrassed? Because I would say
that we all have weeds in ourgarden, and we always have them,
Amir Khaligi (56:27):
because I've be Thank you. Thank you for that. I
really needed to hear that. Ithink, I think, you know, my
humanity sometimes gets lost in,in the shuffle of the position
that I hold. I want
Tess Masters (56:46):
to ask you about that is that, yes, because, and
Amir Khaligi (56:51):
I've been called out on it by my own community,
by the way, right? Like, look,they've been like, we want to.
We want to. We want to hear moreof your heartache, we want to
hear like, you know, I have anestranged daughter. Like, that's
27 that is one of the mostpainful experiences of my life.
(57:11):
But I feel so responsible forthese men and like, like, oh,
wait, you know they're, youknow, they're paying like, I
It's my job to hold and like,but their number one complaint
was, Look, man, you're the onewho said this is a circle, so we
need to be able to feel you too,
Tess Masters (57:30):
yes, and by revealing our pain, we give
others permission, yeah, toreveal as well. And also this, I
want to ask you about what feelslike a masculine construction in
my body right now that I'm aman, I'm a leader of a
(57:50):
community, I am a wise personwho's done all these practices.
I should have all the answersand have my shit together at
every moment and never displaythe cracks.
Amir Khaligi (58:03):
Well, I think I would say, like, I've had small
groups where I'm one of the menin the groups, like a small
men's group where we do that,and I've done that in my life.
So I don't necessarily have aproblem bringing that to to
certain peers or my wife orbeau, for example, yeah. But I
(58:26):
think the ask for my communitywas like, the community needs to
experience some of that fromyou. And I heard them the
following week on a Wednesday,when, for you know, I never
shared during the I'm alwaysholding the circle. I said I'm
gonna go first, and I sharedintimately about what I've been
(58:49):
holding and what I've been goingthrough. And I think in the name
of reciprocity, in the flow ofback and forth of energy between
humans, it's really important tobe like, You know what? You
know, he's hurting, like in thisarea, like, you know, giving
people an opportunity
Tess Masters (59:10):
to love me, and also, what I'm also is coming up
for me is just a reminder to allof us that we're all in process,
continuing to do the work, yeah,and the work never ends, and
that's the juicy, delicious,messy, glorious thing that is
(59:31):
life. And what makesrelationship with self and
relationship with others sodelightful, and takes us to
places that we need to go, asyou so beautifully put it in
your relationship with Carrie,that you have been able to
expand together and sometimescontract when it's needed. Oh,
thank you for sharing so openlyand letting me into your garden.
(59:56):
To use your analogy I was sayingto Carrie when I spoke to her. I
that being at that party withthe two of you, I feel so
honored to have been a part ofthat, and watching you give and
receive love felt like I I got amaster class in holding intimacy
was really very beautiful. Sothank you for the work that
(01:00:20):
you're doing in the world. Icould talk to you forever about
this. I always close everyepisode with the same question,
and I'm going to ask it to you,which is for someone that has a
dream in their heart and doesn'tfeel like they have what it
takes to make it happen, whatwould you say to them?
Amir Khaligi (01:00:41):
I would say that some of the most beautiful
breakthroughs come immediatelyafter massive amounts of
turmoil, and I would encouragethem not to leave before that
miracle happens. Um, reminded ofthe x1 plane when they the
(01:01:08):
Russians in the US were tryingto see who would break the sound
barrier first, and every planethat the US would send out would
rattle and it would explode.They would eject. They lost
pilots. They finally brought,they brought the plane they
believed was going to do it, andthey got the pilot they believed
(01:01:30):
was going to do it, which hisname escaping me. It'll come to
me in a second. So he gets intothis plane, the x1 and he starts
to he goes, he's pushing Machone, same thing starts to
happen. The plane startsrattling uncontrollably. But
(01:01:54):
Chuck Yeager did something. Didsomething nobody. The others
didn't do. What do you thinkthat was?
Tess Masters (01:02:04):
I don't know.
Amir Khaligi (01:02:06):
He leaned forward on the pedal. Instead of pull
back, he leaned forward in themost intense time. He leaned
forward and he said the momenthe broke the sound barrier,
everything went still.Everything went still. He said
you could serve tea to the Queenup there. My message is just
(01:02:31):
because it's turbulent, justbecause it's dark, just because
it feels hopeless. Something isholding you. Something is
holding you, and right on theother side of this wound or pain
is gold for you to discover. Sodon't leave before that miracle
(01:02:51):
happens.
Tess Masters (01:02:53):
Oh, thank you. I needed to hear that today. Thank
you for the way that you show upin the world.
Amir Khaligi (01:03:03):
Thank you for having me and giving me the time
to chit chat with you. It'sreally enjoyable. Thank you.
You.
Oh, Amir, I am excited to dive in with you
about the work that you're doingso beautifully with men. I want
to go back a bit first aboutyour journey into this work that
it has to be me for you tochange what you were doing in
your 20s and have a differentrelationship with self. Tell me
(00:25):
about meeting some of those menthat had what you wanted.
Amir Khaligi (00:30):
Well, thank you first of all for inviting me to
have this conversation with you.I'm excited to go down whatever
alley you take us. So at the ageof 22 I had pretty much burned
all my bridges, and I wasstanding to lose quite a bit,
(00:54):
and I saw an opportunity for andthat was in the realm of drugs
and alcohol. So I got sober atthe age of 23 and I was in the
AA program for almost a quarterof a century, 25 years. And we
can talk about why I chose toleave, if you want, at some
point. But as far as I mean, Ipretty much stumbled and took an
(01:21):
opportunity that presenteditself. I had enough wherewithal
to see it for what it was, and Istepped through a window that
was open, and that windowafforded me into a reprieve from
the chaos and the darkness thatI was living in, and the first
(01:44):
man that I saw on that path hadgone to speak at a college, and
at that time, the person I wasmy fiance, at that time from my
previous marriage, was going tothis health class. Saw this
person speak, gave me theirnumber. I reached out, and he
(02:06):
said, meet me at Chili's inNorthridge. This was 30 years
ago, maybe more. I was 23 I'm 54so just over 30 years, and I
thought I was hips looking cool.I walked in my head long greasy
(02:29):
hair, but my face was caved in.I was neurotic. I couldn't sit
still for a moment in my ownbody. And here's this guy. I saw
him. I knew it was him, just anolder man, probably my age, now,
sitting in this booth, and therewas something about him. There
(02:51):
was almost a glow about him.There was something about him
that I did not have. I did nothave a sense of self. There was
no settling in my own body.There was no comfort. And oddly
enough, his daughter workedthere, and the way that his
daughter and him communicated,the exchange between them, the
(03:14):
tenderness, the openness, therewas nothing I had in my life.
Everything I had up to thatpoint was pretentious. I was I
was very distant from myself, tosay the least. So this man had a
sense of self. The words thatcame out meant something had
weight to them. Yeah, and he wasmy first semblance to what it
(03:42):
means to be a man, to walk as aman, to speak as a man. And
subsequently, I met other men inthat program that exemplified
what it means to walk around asa man. And I it put me on a
trajectory of self, selfdiscovery, healing and
(04:08):
ultimately self actualization.
Tess Masters (04:13):
Yeah, so being, being a person, and I won't call
you a man yet before you, youalways say, boys are born and
men are made in your community.So in your early 20s, what was
it in you that allowed that inwhat was it where you were able
(04:38):
to receive it? It
Amir Khaligi (04:41):
had nothing to do with me. It was the closest
thing I can say is somesemblance of grace, where there
was a moment of clarity, where Idid not want to live that way
anymore. That was not my road,and I knew that that would
ultimately result in death. I.It at what I was doing, at the
rate that I was doing it, yeah,and I didn't want that,
Tess Masters (05:07):
yeah. So growing up with being raised by a
single, you know, a mother, andnot having those male role
models in your life to show youwhat a man could be, until you
met this mentor. What was itlike stepping into the realm of
(05:28):
men? What was that like for you?
Amir Khaligi (05:36):
Well, I think I had to learn what it felt like
to trust men, I had to learnwhat it felt like to begin to
come to terms with the fact thatmost of my life came through the
prism of my Mother's lens. Andthat's why you know, that's why
(06:02):
initiations in indigenouscultures are so valuable,
because they bring attentioncommunity heart to a separation
that is natural that needs tohappen for men. Men need to
sever their ties with theirmothers and in order to be on
(06:23):
the road of self actualization,and all that really means is
that the dynamic needs to shift.The way they relate to each
other needs to shift. And formen that have father wounds
raised by women, most of most ofus children, start taking on the
(06:44):
responsibilities of the husband.We be, we become the patient
ear. We become a source ofsolace, and we start to we're
completely inadequate equippedfor such. It's not right, but we
want to mitigate the chaos thatis happening in a woman who is
(07:08):
trying to survive and raise achild in this world,
Tess Masters (07:14):
right? And so what was that like for you, where you
had seen the world through thelens of your mother, and then
you enter this world, and thenyou you initiated yourself, or
you were initiated in adifferent way.
Amir Khaligi (07:29):
Well, it was self initiation through drugs and
alcohol. It's the best way Icould describe it. It was, you
know, looking back, I can saythat there was a part of me that
needed to make that separation.Didn't know how to make that
separation, and I did it in thein the worst way possible, where
I hurt myself and I hurteveryone around me, but it did
put me on the other side, andthus began my spiritual path at
(07:53):
the age of 23 and it put me on Aroad to work, to ultimately work
with men,
Tess Masters (08:03):
yeah, so take me into that. It has to be me,
where you had done a lot of workhealing yourself, and then what
was that, that trajectory whereyou then claimed your role to
shepherd it for other men.
Amir Khaligi (08:25):
I think for me, I always there was something in me
that wanted to support men. Icouldn't really understand it,
and I did it for a long timejust through sponsoring other
men in AA. So that's that becamekind of a template, and then
ultimately, other, you know,men's groups. And then I went
(08:49):
into martial arts, and I startedmentoring through martial arts.
And I really always, I alwaysdid it as something that fed my
soul. I never got paid for it,and it wasn't until 2018 where I
was invited to teach at a men'sretreat of about 40 men in the
(09:11):
desert. And I was also invitedto participate, and I got a lot
more than I gave i i i in thereceiving of some of those
practices. This is back in 2018I had some somatic releases that
really, I think, were in the wayof the clarity of the totality
(09:35):
of my purpose, or the second actof my life. It really all came
together. And up until then, Iused to always. I used to also
be a professional actor. For 10years. I came back from that,
from that retreat, I called myagent. I said, I'm done. Just
(09:56):
close everything. Closeeverything. And I couldn't
quite. Do that with the businessthat was paying for everything.
So I started to really move inthe direction of birthing this,
this thing that that wanted tobe birthed uniquely through me.
And I started to listen in adifferent way. I started to tune
(10:18):
into my heart instead of myhead, and I started to begin to
walk in the unknown.Subsequently, I had walked away
from AA because that felt like amarriage that had completed, and
I was moving into the spiritualunknown simultaneously and
(10:39):
coming away from that richretreat, I knew that, and with
there was a few other instancesthat crystallized this for me,
but I really understood my workin the world based off of my
history. And being in thismoment, I came to a realization
that most of the pain that iscaused in the tear in the fabric
(10:59):
of humanity in life is done byunconscious men. It's by it
comes through a level ofdisconnection and
unconsciousness, whether that'sin relationship or running a
business or building an empireor running a country. It has. It
comes from a level ofunconsciousness that gives men
(11:20):
permission to tear at the fabricof our planet, for example. And
I started to really move towardsanimism and shamanism, and I
started to become apractitioner, kind of a closet
shaman, for a practitioner foryears.
(11:42):
Do didn't really go out of thecloset a deep desire to share my
search with others on thatsearch, and I found a teacher
that I studied with her for ayear, and it was wonderful just
(12:03):
to come out and, you know, playin that realm and get feedback
and see things from differentperspectives. And it just really
put me into into that space. Andit, you know, shamanism and
animism have deeply impacted mymy the way I work with men, and
it's brought a deep reverence tothe manifest, to to the when I
(12:25):
say the manifest is to find theholy in what is already here.
Instead of trying to look out tofind God, I found it by going
in. So I, I, I, that's what I dowith the men that I work, we
come to terms with what is itthat has captivated their
attention and that isdisconnected them from
(12:48):
themselves, the dependenciesthat they have or that, or the
stories they bought into thatthey need to begin to
systematically let go of, tobegin to free fall into this
relationship, into their heart.And I really believe that's
where the divine lives. It'sit's in the chambers of the
(13:09):
heart. I believe that a sense ofour higher self lives in the
chambers of the heart. So a lotof my work became about
connecting men to themselves andto the natural world. And all my
programs include, like, an hourof silence in nature as part of
the curriculum, you know, sobecoming aware of the reverence
(13:35):
that is within and if it'swithin me, that's within you,
and if it's within you that I'mgoing to treat you with
reverence.
Tess Masters (13:44):
Tell me a little bit more about these somatic
releases that were so powerfulout in the desert that invited
you to step into your role as aleader in this way.
Amir Khaligi (13:57):
Yeah. So one of the inquiries that was
suggested, invited for everyoneto kind of ponder with was like,
Okay, well, what is it thatbrought you here? Now for me, it
was twofold. One, I was asked bymy friend to come teach, but I
also said yes, because a part ofme really was exhausted, and I
(14:23):
was exhausted, and I wanteddistance from the immediate
women in my life. Now, I havebeen blessed to be around women
my entire life. I come from mydad's side of the family.
There's four siblings, tons ofchildren. I'm the only boy I
have four daughters. I you know,the closest people to me are my
(14:45):
mother, my you know my wife,obviously my my children, my
mother and my sister. So it'sjust that's been my Eco sphere.
But I was like, I was askingmyself, well, what? What is it?
I was just like. I need, I needa break. I need I need space. I
need space. And I was like,Well, why do you need space? So
(15:09):
I started to sit with theinquiry, and the inquiry was
like, Oh, I don't drawboundaries. I just say yes to
everything when it comes tothese women, yes, right? So now
we're pointing back to themother, right? Pleasing the
mother, making sure she's okay,and, you know, everything she's
holding now I'm playing it outin my immediate life. I'm
exhausting myself because I'mnot honoring my own boundaries.
(15:33):
I'm not honoring my own yesesand nos in relationships. So
what is and then, you know, theinquiry kept going deeper and
deeper, until we stepped intothis practice, and one of the
root causes that I feltresponsible for my mother's well
being, her physical well beingand her emotional well being.
(15:55):
And this is going to get alittle intimate, but I'll share
it with you. My mother's secondhusband was physically abusive
to her, and I witnessed this asa young child, and I remember it
once my mother was pregnant withmy sister or my half sister, I
(16:18):
called she's my sister, and Iremember there was a fight, and
we were in Costa Rica at thetime, and he started to beat
her. He started to beat her witha suitcase. And I, I was frozen
(16:39):
at that. I was, I was 12 yearsold. Maybe, you know, I couldn't
physically do anything about it.I couldn't say anything. I was
frozen. I wanted to freezestate. And in the somatic
practice, I, you know, we weresitting with the inquiry of,
(17:01):
well, what is it the what iswhat is it the root of this,
that this came up for me, thisincident came up for me, and in
this practice, what thepractitioners are invited to
experience is, in your you're ina group of five. So there's,
let's say me, who's going to bein the practice there's going to
(17:23):
be there are three men holdingme. So there's one man behind
me. He's holding my holding mefrom the back. There are two
guys facing this way, holding myleft and right arm. There's the
the fourth man is in front ofme, role playing. The
(17:45):
stepfather. And the invitationis when I say, go, you go, you
say what you need to say. Youscream, you go, you, you
everything that didn't come out.And I you get, you get an
(18:06):
opportunity to revisit and andfinish that cycle. And I and I
said, I hope you guys know whatyou're doing, because I will
kill that. I if I get my handson that guy who I know is here
to there's going to be aproblem. Now, you got to
(18:28):
remember, by this time, I hadthree black belts. I had gone. I
was, I'm a trained martialartist. I spent all those years
of not feeling safe, making sureI felt safe in the world. Yes,
when I was seven years old, Iused to have to, like, pretend
there was a force field aroundme, just so I could feel safe to
(18:49):
go to sleep. That's becausethere's no masculine presence in
the space. When there is agrounded masculine presence, you
feel safe. You don't even knowwhy? Hmm. I said, I hope you
guys know what you're doing.They said, We know what we're
doing. And I and I went, I Iscreamed, I clawed, I went. They
(19:16):
had another person had to comesupport. And I, I even got
tricky. I said, Okay, I'm goingto pretend. I'm gonna, like,
fall down that I'm done, andthen I'm gonna go again. In the
split second I did that, theystill grabbed me until I was
spent, until I was exhausted,and I was spent, and I
collapsed, and I laid down, andI looked up and I saw all these
(19:41):
men looking down at me with suchlove, with such love. So they
were pouring now their love intome as I was revisiting that
moment, because it felt thesame. I was still frozen. I
couldn't move forward. I. Butthis time, I expressed
everything I needed to express,and I swear it was almost like a
(20:11):
prayer had been answered. Itjust took a long time, and these
guys looking down were like theangels that were like in that
moment with me again, andhealing started to happen. And I
released that. I released thataround him, my stepfather and
(20:35):
and, you know, everything thatcomes with that, everything that
comes with that. And I reallybelieve, you know, clarity comes
from really cleaning up thistemple body. And I, you know,
that's what I deal with. Man, wewe clean up this temple body so
we can begin to tune in to whatis our purpose here? Why are we
(21:02):
here? What are we here to do? Sowhen we get to the end, we can
transition with ease, knowing wedid, or at least we fully gave
it everything we had. Oh
Tess Masters (21:13):
yes to that. How do you help men open the pathway
to that?
Amir Khaligi (21:25):
Well, that that's such a great question, because
it's a mystery on what createsthe opening and willingness in
one person and not in anotherperson? Yes, it's such a
mystery, but it it's the menthat take a step into the
(21:47):
unknown from that point ofreceiving that. We'll call it
Grace window, that window ofopportunity that's showered in
grace. Those that take thewindow, those that actually step
through it, I don't know why Imade it a window, not a door,
but here we are, those that takea step forward into the unknown.
(22:12):
That willingness is what bringsmen to my community and others
like it, and what they do fromthat point, it's all contingent
on their willingness to stoprunning away from shadows,
(22:32):
aspects of self, to stop runningaway from wounds, to stop living
altruistic lives that areunconscious to what's running
them to slow down enough andbecome willing to actually stop,
turn around and start facingthese things. And in community,
(22:53):
we work on these things, whetherit's through shadow work or
limiting beliefs or picking uptools and dealing with bringing
more presence and freedom of ourattention to the table. I mean,
these are all aspects of what gointo one of the programs that I
run.
Tess Masters (23:12):
Yeah, there's beauty in working one on one
with people, which I know youdo. And then there's also beauty
in community work. So tell meabout the power of what happens
when men come together in thatintimate, trusting way.
Amir Khaligi (23:37):
Men. Men need men. Men Men need men, you know,
there's, there's a, there's asharpness that we can handle
with one
Tess Masters (23:49):
another. Ooh, tell me about that.
Amir Khaligi (23:55):
When, when we are in a safe container, when it's
established that, like, this isa safe container. This is not
hierarchical, you know, and Ireally try incredibly hard to
make sure my space is that is acircle. And when there's trust
within the container, men canget really honest with each
(24:15):
other and how they show up andwhat it is that they're not
seeing other men can really comein and be like, Hey, Brother,
let me you know i i heard you. Ihear what this, what you're
saying here. But let me tell youwhat I see. And men take that
really well with with eachother. So that's one aspect.
(24:38):
Another aspect is when new mencome into into men's work, they
are all over the place. They areerratic. They are their nervous
systems are shot. They'reconstantly people pleasing.
They're worried about whatsomeone's going to think or what
they're going to say, like andjust being around other men that
(24:59):
are alone. Little bit furtheralong the path. The resonance
takes care of a lot of it. Beingin community really does a lot.
There's a quick story I'll tellyou about these, these
elephants, back in the I thinkit was early 80s, they there was
(25:19):
an African reserve where theywere seeing some really weird
behavior from these teenelephants. Couldn't understand
that they were being incrediblyviolent, like nothing. There's a
stage they go into called Sethand but this was nothing they
had ever seen before, and theybrought the specialist. And I'm
(25:41):
going to tell the story reallyquick, just to get to the point.
The specialist observed them forvery just a few minutes, and he
said, Where are the bullelephants? They said, Oh, we
couldn't afford them when webought them, so we just bought
the babies and the mothers. Andhe's like, Okay, I know what's
happening here, right? So theseteens are on a rampage. So they
(26:05):
go and they bring, like, half adozen bull elephants, and within
days, just by the essence andpresence of these bull
elephants, these teen elephantsself regulate. Yeah, they begin
to self regulate. So communityabsolutely right? Like
(26:26):
initiations should not happen ina vacuum, right? Like we need
to, we need to be a livingexample of what it means to be a
man today, like through andthrough. That's why, in my work,
also like relationship to thefeminine is an incredibly
(26:50):
important pillar in our work.
Tess Masters (26:54):
Yeah, tell me about that you said before,
about the relationship with yourmother and feeling responsible
for her safety. How do yourespect the feminine, allow it
in and not feel responsible forthe feminine energy of the
(27:20):
females in your life, like, howdo you help men hold that
balance? Well,
Amir Khaligi (27:30):
I think first and foremost,
I think in order to answer thatquestion, I have to talk about
power and men and men and power.When I say men and power, what's
the first thing that you thinkof like collectively,
Tess Masters (27:55):
toxic masculinity?
Amir Khaligi (27:57):
Thank you. That is that, that is, that is in the
collective unconscious orconscious, and it's a real
thing, because for formillennia, Men have abused
(28:18):
power, right? They've abusedpower, and they've abused, I
personally believe this givesthem they, you know, they abuse
nature itself. You can see theunconscious behavior towards how
we relate to animals, to thenatural world. The feminine is
(28:40):
the eminence of nature, thefeminine is the Chosen vessel
for creation. Do you know howmuch power is in that that is
nothing a man can touch? So aman can either be in reverence
and awe to that kind of power,or it can begin to do what
(29:05):
patriarchal systems have triedto do for 5000 years, which is
try to control nature andcontrol women.
Tess Masters (29:16):
Make sense? Yes, we
Amir Khaligi (29:18):
see it in religion. Put a burqa on it,
clip the clitoris, child wives.I mean, this is still going on,
so there is no men's workwithout be bringing into
consciousness what that is menneed to learn to work with, and
(29:44):
as a result, many men that Iwork with don't want to have
fucking anything to do withpower. They don't want to step
into their power, because thatequals toxic masculinity. That
if I do that, then I'll be thispart of my work is aligning men
(30:07):
to allow themselves to step intopower, but not self generated
power, power that is alignedwith their purpose, that is
designed for them tointrinsically take their
rightful place in the healing ofthemselves and this planet that
(30:32):
directly connects us torelationship to the feminine.
The feminine is to be notcontrolled. The the feminine is
to be witnessed, to be listenedto their you know, men wouldn't
go to war unless the Oracle saidit's a good time to go to war.
(30:55):
There is something. There's alost art of the way we see
women, the way we see the theevidence of women and how we
hold them. Most women, from myexperience and understanding,
try to tone down theirbrilliance and their right,
their their fire, because, youknow, you can't have one without
(31:23):
the other, right? And there's,there's some movements in, in
in, in the world that I work in,in this world where only you
know, in the in polarity work,where it's like, oh, these
flavors of women, no man. Womenare multi dimensional, like
(31:43):
seven headed dragon and MotherTeresa and like all of it and
your desire to try to cage thatcontrol that you're gonna lose
you ah, the grass will alwaysgrow through the cement.
Tess Masters (32:09):
Yeah, oh, I you said before about helping men
sit with themselves in all partsof themselves, whether it's
through shadow work and notrunning away from the sharp
edges and having that notnecessarily have to be toxic
(32:34):
masculinity, that we can embraceour power in whatever form it
comes and be holding it withcare so that we're using it in a
way that serves our purpose. Ifthat's the right way to
summarize what you've beensaying. For me, what I hear is
(32:56):
permission. So how do you helpmen give themselves permission
to have a full embodiedexperience with themselves and
then others and the world?
Amir Khaligi (33:14):
Perfect question. So for the past six years, once
a week. Men come from all aroundthe world. On Wednesday nights
from six to 8pm Beau's beencoming for six years. Our friend
Yes, one of the staples in ourcommunity, yeah. And men through
(33:38):
various types of practices thatI bring from different
traditions and modalities get toexperience the bandwidth of
their own pull from masculinepull to feminine pull. Masculine
essence, practices thatcultivate depth, breadth and
(34:02):
depth of consciousness andpresence, various types of
practices that we that, that Ibring and feminine embodiment,
practices which are reallygeared towards men giving
themselves permission, forexpression, for movement, for
sound, and ultimately, immersioninto the field of everything
(34:27):
that is right, they begin tonavigate their own inner
landscape. And as they do, theydeepen their capacity for the
masculine pull they get to theyget to overdo it. They get to
play. It's like being inrehearsal. You get to try things
(34:47):
that won't maybe work, but youget to try them right? And as
they, as they maneuver up anddown this line, they come across
internally. Internal edges thatthey'll get to work with. So
growing up, let's say you weretold as a boy, stop acting that
(35:08):
way. That's that's stop beingso, you know, who knows like how
they were shamed as kids, right?You know, you a boy is dancing,
and his dad, like, says thatthat's boys don't, don't. Boys
don't do that. Or however, theshame came in. Shame is really
nothing more than a noose thattightens itself around life
(35:31):
force, energy. That's what shameis. So for them, in practice
sessions, they get anopportunity to be with that boy,
and they get to work in thatspace of I maybe I can open my
voice and just make a soundhere. Maybe I can just move my
body, oh, my God. Likeeveryone's gonna think, like all
(35:52):
the stuff happens, and they'renow working with that. It's a
lab
Tess Masters (35:59):
they're working on that to lab.
Amir Khaligi (36:03):
They're working, they're practicing. That's not
how they're going to go live.They you know you come and you
practice and you explore and youexpress and you confront and you
sit and you cry and you heal andyou experience joy, and you're
expanding your capacity andyou're, you're you're
identifying new depth of your ofyour reach, and we're building
(36:30):
community at the same time.
Tess Masters (36:32):
And what's that like for you, shepherding people
to the edges and the depths ofplaces they have not explored
before, within themselves and byextension, you are also going to
those places with them. Whatdoes that teach you as the man
(36:55):
that you are now?
Amir Khaligi (36:58):
Yeah. First, of all, it's an honor to really be
in that field with men and tomake sure that they're safe and
to guide them through thesedifferent practices. It's an
absolute honor, like for me, youknow, I'm sitting there on a
screen, you know, every week,unless I'm in person, which is a
(37:20):
whole other amazing experience.And I see them. I see them going
into the crevices. I see thembreaking apart. I see them
trying to gather themselves. Isee them overcoming. I see them
sitting with grief. I see themsitting with loss, and I see the
transformation, and to witnessthat, and to be a part of the
fabric that is holding thatbecause I am a part of the
(37:42):
fabric, I'm in the field withthem, is incredibly rewarding.
It's incredibly rewarding. And Ihave to also remember this, you
know, I'm simply answering mycalling, and that is enough. You
know, I can't let the ego get inthe way. I can't, you know, I
(38:04):
can't be, you know, guru orteacher like and people will
want to project certain thingsto people in position that, you
know, I am a teacher. Theposition is different, so I have
to have a level of consciousnessaround that it can be a lonely
(38:25):
spot at times. Oh, tell me aboutthat.
You know, I work a lot, and soI'm in this position, this
dynamic with other people quiteoften. And it's kind of like a
(38:45):
father, archetypal figure thatnaturally, the dynamic, the
dynamic, sometimes puts me in,and I just have to be also
cognizant of, like, you know,transference. I don't know if
you're familiar with that term.It's a union term, yes, yes. So
I have to be really cognizant.Like, sometimes, you know, we
(39:08):
have a large community, andthere is a percentage of people
that also have, you know, stuffaround their fathers that may
want to project it onto me. AndI just need to be really
cognizant of the role that Iplay in people's lives, and it
doesn't give me a lot of timefor friendships. To be honest
(39:30):
with you, I almost, I almostdon't really, I see my my wife
is so good at being like, havingfriends like, she's just like,
you know, and I have people thatare my friends that I can call,
and they're like, there for me,but I don't do a lot of, like,
small talk with people. I'vegotten more private as I've
(39:51):
gotten older, and naturally, Ithink sometimes I just fall into
that archetypal. Position withpeople. So it creates a little
bit of like feeling feelingalone.
Tess Masters (40:09):
What does it stir up in you being placed in that
father or placing yourself alsoin that father archetype when
you didn't have it yourself asthat little boy that was
screaming up against the abuserin the desert with those men and
(40:30):
revisiting that place within thework. So how does that rub up
against you while you're doing
Amir Khaligi (40:37):
I feel like I'm being fed. To be honest with
you, I feel like the fact that Iam doing what, and yet it feels
lonely at times, okay, yeah, attimes I and I've just gotten, I
used to be a lot more social.I've gotten a little bit
socially awkward, I think aswell, I don't really know. I'm
(41:00):
still in flux
Tess Masters (41:02):
as as as we all are, I'm just, it's, it's, it's
of interest to me while you'reholding space for others. I i
And we may find our way back tothat in just a minute, when you
were speaking before about thedivine feminine and and the
power of women and how it'sgoing to win every time. What is
(41:27):
it like for you being anembodied male and exploring the
sharp edges of your and thebeautiful places of your
masculinity and your and yourfeminine energy being in
intimate relationship withCarrie, who is living in an
embodied experience of thefeminine, and the two of you
(41:50):
working together to shepherdthat beautifully for other
people. How do you take up thatinvitation and hold that because
she brings a lot of power. Andso do you what's that? What's
that like?
Amir Khaligi (42:10):
Well, you know, my wife and I definitely, the stars
brought us together, you know,because we have, first and
foremost, really awakened ourgifts to one another, our coming
together. I was I was not doingwhat I'm doing before I met her,
(42:33):
I was doing versions of helpingmen on the side, and I was
running businesses. You know, Ihad different businesses
throughout my life. It wasn'tuntil 2018 Carrie and I met 10
years ago, so I really believewe awakened our gifts. And she's
(42:54):
been a champion of, you know, Icame to her, I said, Look, this
is what I'm doing. This is inthe middle of, like, mortgages
and children, lot of pain. I'mlike, guess what? I'm leaving
everything, ultimately, thisother business as well, and, and
I walked away from the businessthat was paying for everything
after a year and a half, andshe's like, she's like, Of
(43:16):
course you are. Like, like,yeah. And so she, you know,
she's, she's been, you know, asteadfast supporter and
believer. And in order to fullystep into our power, our the
stuff that's personal, the stuffthat we've needed to work on has
(43:37):
come up, head has has to comeup. It has to come up like what
it triggers. It triggers aroundwhatever my stuff is and
whatever her stuff is, like weperfectly match in a way to
bring the stuff that is keepingus from our self actualization
(43:59):
full expression, and we've hadto really take a good look at
ourselves in marriage, andthat's really hard, because it's
really easy to just be as longas you just, if you would have
just acted differently, I'd feelDifferent, right? If you just,
(44:21):
if you could just containyourself, right? Me again trying
to like, if I was to like, sheis a powerful woman. There is no
controlling that woman, and nothere, nor should there be. She
needs. She my wife should feelfree in every way that she
(44:42):
wants. Obviously, we haveagreements about the garden that
we live in, right? I mean, weboth have principles and like,
you know monogamy and certain,you know trust. But as far as
her, like, I should all she, Ishould be a champion for her and
she a champion. For me and weboth should feel free in this
relationship, and we do,
Tess Masters (45:06):
yes. What does feeling free mean to you?
Amir Khaligi (45:14):
To be a completely, you know,
transparent myself and to revealmyself freely, to express my
needs freely without feeling adependency on her, to to answer
those needs and to feel, feel,you know, feel safe to express
(45:44):
myself in any way that I wantyou know that I that I need to
and her as well, and not to takeeverything so personally, like,
you know what? Like, sometimesyou just need to hold space and
let her rage. Let her rage. It'snot about me, it's she. She
needs to rage right now, right?So, you know, for a guy who grew
(46:09):
up with feeling responsible forhis mother's emotional well
being and physical well beingand not paying attention to my
own boundaries, well you get apowerful woman like that, I'm
going to be called up to work.Yes, I'm going to be called up
so she raises me
Tess Masters (46:30):
Yes, and you to her, want to ask you about being
called up to hold parts ofyourself that are more
challenging you spoke beforeabout men wanting to people
please or to please society ormeet the expectations of
(46:52):
constructions. As a female,listening to that, I think to
myself, gosh, I want to getinside of that a bit more,
because as women, we go awarealways people pleasing the men
aren't. You know, that'stypically the construction that
(47:12):
we attach to so take the insideof what men are feeling in your
experience and your ownexperience of of plea, wanting
to please, and how that gets inthe way of you feeling free to
express yourself,
Amir Khaligi (47:34):
if you're if you're people pleasing you, you
are not tuned in to you, to thetruth, Essence of Your
expression, right? You're you'remore concerned about the impact
of the conversation and whetheryou can handle it or not, or
what are they gonna like you'vecompletely left you. There is no
(48:01):
freedom without a sense of self.There is no freedom without the
ability to be able to expressyour needs, express your
boundaries. People pleasing robsus of authenticity, of intimacy,
(48:29):
fear, really.
Tess Masters (48:33):
And what is it in your experience of working with
men and also being on and inthis journey with yourself, what
is it in men? And I know this isa gross generalization I'm
asking you to make, becausewe're all unique beings. What is
(48:56):
the construction or theattachment that leads men to
believe that they should bedoing that.
Amir Khaligi (49:07):
Well, I really think society plays an unhealthy
role in shaping men. So when youdon't have, you know, we don't,
you know, there's no villagewhere the men can be examples,
really, right? There's thisfragmentation and the very sad
(49:32):
reality that young boys arefaced with, and young girls as
well, and in a different way,is, is you know through this
screen, you know this is what'sraising them. And you know boys,
you know, are raised in pornculture, and girls think they
(49:53):
have to abdicate themselves andlook a certain way to be
accepted. And. And it's just aperversion of connection, and
the end result is a deepdisconnection from self and a
lack of fulfillment in life, orworse or worse, where it can
(50:16):
take where it can take teens. SoI think society plays a big
role. I think our parentsgrowing up play a role, and
there are no systems in place,really, to honor and witness the
(50:37):
transitions that we experienceas humans in life. One being, of
course, you know the initiationfor a boy, but you know when,
when a, you know when a, when ayoung girl begins her moon
cycle? And I mean there we'velost the essence like I $150,000
(51:04):
Bar Mitzvah has lost
Tess Masters (51:06):
the essence. Oh, my goodness, yes,
Amir Khaligi (51:09):
lost the essence.
Tess Masters (51:11):
How do you hold the essence of how you would
like to shepherd these youngpeople in your life being a
father to four girls, how hasthis work changed the way that
you view that, that sacred dutyin society? You spoke earlier
(51:37):
about looking at your mentor andthe way he spoke to his
daughter. How does the work thatyou do with men continue to
inform the way that you speak toyour daughters and initiate them
for one of a better word, intothe being of of themselves in a
(51:59):
healthy way?
Amir Khaligi (52:00):
Wow, I really wish I had the same influence and
impact on my men that I do on mydaughters.
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Youknow, I was speaking to a man
today who was having just areally hard time with his 24
(52:23):
year old the first time I'd methim, and he was just besides
himself. And, you know? And Ireminded him, I said, you know,
man, it's possible I could saythe very exact same thing to
your son that you did a weekago, and he'll be like, Oh, my
God, this is profound. Yes. SoSo look, parenting, parenting, I
(52:51):
believe, is the biggestchallenge we are handed in in
the path of love, patience,acceptance acceptance and
spiritual growth. And these fourhave certainly, in their own
way, made me the man I am today.I used to have long hair,
Tess Masters (53:21):
yeah, yeah, oh, gosh, that's so funny. I I want
to ask you about being alone andfeeling lonely, you know, in in
the role of leader and in therelationships that you form now,
(53:44):
how does your private work withyourself and reminding yourself
to that you are in a safe placewith yourself and the trust that
you've cultivated withinyourself in your private
practice. How would you likethat to develop moving forward,
(54:06):
so that you can feel less lonelysometimes in the work that
you're doing?
Amir Khaligi (54:12):
Did my wife put you up to that question? No such
a great
Tess Masters (54:16):
question. Moment, I'm such a curious myself.
Amir Khaligi (54:20):
Yeah, it's such a it's, it's a poignant question,
because historically, I I'm notbatting well, not batting I'm
not batting Well, yeah, I Yes,yes, yeah, yeah. I tend to hold
beyond my capacity. I tend to, Ifeel that in you Yeah, take on
(54:45):
more clients. I tend to outputmore than I do. And listen, I
teach a facilitator trainingprogram that's like, we have a
whole thing on, like, you know,taking care of oneself and
energetic high. Machine, andthere's, you know, those things
I do, but I'm not great at it.I'm not great at like, oh, let's
(55:09):
go. I'm gonna meet so and so forcoffee, and then we'll go, I
don't know, bow and arrows orlike, do I just,
Tess Masters (55:21):
yeah, no, I what I'm hearing, and you can correct
me if I'm not interpreting thisin the way that you would like
being able to hold, hold yourcalling and what it means to you
in balance with your self care.Yeah, what I hear is that,
Amir Khaligi (55:45):
yeah, no, you're, you're, you're very on point. I
really, yeah, I hold what I doin the world as sacred
Absolutely, and I I treat it assuch, and I tend to it as such,
the same way I do with mymarriage. I believe what we have
is a Sacred Garden, and I tendto it in that way. And I'm
(56:10):
embarrassed to say that my ownrelationship to my own personal
garden, there's some weeds thatneed to be, to be Ooh.
Tess Masters (56:20):
Why? Why embarrassed? Because I would say
that we all have weeds in ourgarden, and we always have them,
Amir Khaligi (56:27):
because I've be Thank you. Thank you for that. I
really needed to hear that. Ithink, I think, you know, my
humanity sometimes gets lost in,in the shuffle of the position
that I hold. I want
Tess Masters (56:46):
to ask you about that is that, yes, because, and
Amir Khaligi (56:51):
I've been called out on it by my own community,
by the way, right? Like, look,they've been like, we want to.
We want to. We want to hear moreof your heartache, we want to
hear like, you know, I have anestranged daughter. Like, that's
27 that is one of the mostpainful experiences of my life.
(57:11):
But I feel so responsible forthese men and like, like, oh,
wait, you know they're, youknow, they're paying like, I
It's my job to hold and like,but their number one complaint
was, Look, man, you're the onewho said this is a circle, so we
need to be able to feel you too,
Tess Masters (57:30):
yes, and by revealing our pain, we give
others permission, yeah, toreveal as well. And also this, I
want to ask you about what feelslike a masculine construction in
my body right now that I'm aman, I'm a leader of a
(57:50):
community, I am a wise personwho's done all these practices.
I should have all the answersand have my shit together at
every moment and never displaythe cracks.
Amir Khaligi (58:03):
Well, I think I would say, like, I've had small
groups where I'm one of the menin the groups, like a small
men's group where we do that,and I've done that in my life.
So I don't necessarily have aproblem bringing that to to
certain peers or my wife orbeau, for example, yeah. But I
(58:26):
think the ask for my communitywas like, the community needs to
experience some of that fromyou. And I heard them the
following week on a Wednesday,when, for you know, I never
shared during the I'm alwaysholding the circle. I said I'm
gonna go first, and I sharedintimately about what I've been
(58:49):
holding and what I've been goingthrough. And I think in the name
of reciprocity, in the flow ofback and forth of energy between
humans, it's really important tobe like, You know what? You
know, he's hurting, like in thisarea, like, you know, giving
people an opportunity
Tess Masters (59:10):
to love me, and also, what I'm also is coming up
for me is just a reminder to allof us that we're all in process,
continuing to do the work, yeah,and the work never ends, and
that's the juicy, delicious,messy, glorious thing that is
(59:31):
life. And what makesrelationship with self and
relationship with others sodelightful, and takes us to
places that we need to go, asyou so beautifully put it in
your relationship with Carrie,that you have been able to
expand together and sometimescontract when it's needed. Oh,
thank you for sharing so openlyand letting me into your garden.
(59:56):
To use your analogy I was sayingto Carrie when I spoke to her. I
that being at that party withthe two of you, I feel so
honored to have been a part ofthat, and watching you give and
receive love felt like I I got amaster class in holding intimacy
was really very beautiful. Sothank you for the work that
(01:00:20):
you're doing in the world. Icould talk to you forever about
this. I always close everyepisode with the same question,
and I'm going to ask it to you,which is for someone that has a
dream in their heart and doesn'tfeel like they have what it
takes to make it happen, whatwould you say to them?
Amir Khaligi (01:00:41):
I would say that some of the most beautiful
breakthroughs come immediatelyafter massive amounts of
turmoil, and I would encouragethem not to leave before that
miracle happens. Um, reminded ofthe x1 plane when they the
(01:01:08):
Russians in the US were tryingto see who would break the sound
barrier first, and every planethat the US would send out would
rattle and it would explode.They would eject. They lost
pilots. They finally brought,they brought the plane they
believed was going to do it, andthey got the pilot they believed
(01:01:30):
was going to do it, which hisname escaping me. It'll come to
me in a second. So he gets intothis plane, the x1 and he starts
to he goes, he's pushing Machone, same thing starts to
happen. The plane startsrattling uncontrollably. But
(01:01:54):
Chuck Yeager did something. Didsomething nobody. The others
didn't do. What do you thinkthat was?
Tess Masters (01:02:04):
I don't know.
Amir Khaligi (01:02:06):
He leaned forward on the pedal. Instead of pull
back, he leaned forward in themost intense time. He leaned
forward and he said the momenthe broke the sound barrier,
everything went still.Everything went still. He said
you could serve tea to the Queenup there. My message is just
(01:02:31):
because it's turbulent, justbecause it's dark, just because
it feels hopeless. Something isholding you. Something is
holding you, and right on theother side of this wound or pain
is gold for you to discover. Sodon't leave before that miracle
(01:02:51):
happens.
Tess Masters (01:02:53):
Oh, thank you. I needed to hear that today. Thank
you for the way that you show upin the world.
Amir Khaligi (01:03:03):
Thank you for having me and giving me the time
to chit chat with you. It'sreally enjoyable. Thank you.
You.
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