September 3, 2024 • 43 mins
Imagine balancing a thriving dental career while exploring the natural wonders of Western Australia and homeschooling your kids on the road...
In this episode of "It Takes Heart," we sit down with Ellen Rogers, a dedicated dentist currently working with Cornerstone in Geraldton. Ellen speaks about her life pivot to locum dentistry after a severe foot injury during pandemic lockdowns, reigniting her passion for her profession.
Ellen dives into the unique contributions of neurodivergent professionals in dentistry and the critical role of locum dentists in regional areas. She challenges stereotypes, showing how locum roles can drive tremendous growth and quality care in rural communities.
And then comes the adventures of her transformed home-life with her partner stepping into the stay-at-home dad where the couple crafted interactive curriculum that made education exciting and adaptable across six states and covering 10,000 kilometers!
Tune in for a heartfelt and inspiring episode that underscores the value of dedication, adaptability, and community in healthcare.
This episode of It Takes Heart has CEO of cmr Sam Miklos hosting alongside Head of Talent and Employer Branding, Kate Coomber.
We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso
More about Ellen's Charity of Choice:
ADA Dental Health Foundation
The Foundation's mandate is to improve the dental health of Australians who cannot easily access or afford dental care. The team around Australia coordinates the delivery of pro bono dental treatment to disadvantaged members of the community. Visit https://adadhf.org.au for more information.
Get to know cmr better!
Follow @ittakesheartpodcast on Instagram, @cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment on Linked In, @cornerstonemedicalrec on TikTok and @CornerstoneMedicalRecruitment on Facebook.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam Miklos (00:00):
We care for the lan, we care for the energy.
We care for our community.
We care.
Welcome to it Takes Heart.
(00:21):
I'm Sam Miklos and I'm KateCoomba.
We hope you enjoy theseincredible stories of healthcare
professionals making adifference in communities across
Australia and beyond.
Through our conversations, welook to celebrate the spirit of
community and care.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land who have
long practised and sharedancient methods of healing,
providing care and support fortheir communities with wisdom
(00:44):
passed down through generations.
Kate Coomber (00:46):
Join us as we explore what it truly means to
take heart.
Sam Miklos (00:55):
Okay, welcome.
We are so looking forward todayto spending time with Ellen
Rogers, who's been locuming withCornerstone since March 2023.
Ellen is currently on locum asthe dentist in charge in
Geraldton, western Australia.
She is loving the opportunitiesthat she's having to give the
community greater access todental care.
But what is particularly uniqueabout Ellen's story is that she
(01:18):
has been able to take herpartner and her two young boys
along with her on this adventure.
Growing up on Bribie Island inQueensland, ellen has wanted to
be a dentist since she was 10,and her journey to where she is
today has certainly taken manytwists and turns.
She spent 10 years in privatepractice, but lockdowns and a
major foot injury brought achance encounter with the
(01:39):
Cornerstone Dental team.
The team helped Ellencoordinate placements where
family and work could go hand inhand.
What a great opportunity.
The team and our clientsdescribe Ellen as a passionate,
dedicated dentist who willalways do the right thing no
matter what, and in recentplacement in Geraldton she has
had such enormous value not onlyto the health service but the
(02:01):
wider Geraldton communitythrough a host of initiatives.
Welcome Ellen to the it TakesHeart podcast.
Hi thank you so much for havingme.
You're so welcome.
We're so excited to talk to youtoday, so I guess I'd really
love to start understanding whatdoes life look like for you and
your family living and workingin Geraldton, having come from
(02:22):
Bribie Island and working inGeraldton, having come from
Bribie Island, surprisingly,being on the absolute opposite
side of the country.
Ellen Rogers (02:30):
It's really similar to what I grew up in.
It's this lovely little townwith such a small-knit community
, but just the environment is sowelcoming.
It's this beautiful beach town.
It's always windy, like thewind doesn't, but um, that keeps
(02:53):
it nice and cool.
So people always say to me butwasn't it like 50 degrees?
I was just about to say don'tyou get like 50 degree days
there?
Um, but yet it's, it's a dryheat.
So, having grown up inqueensland, where you really
humid heat, um, which my partnerhated, so he's loving the dry
heat um getting down.
(03:14):
We go down to the beach afterwork, um which, because we're on
the west coast, the sun issetting a bit later so we can
have a swim in the afternoon.
We can enjoy the park with thekids after work, have a walk,
have a, have a play, um, it'sjust such a nice relaxing time
(03:35):
with with the kids, um, even tosee the sunset on the weekends
we're getting to explore therest of the country, so we've
never been over the side.
You know, we've been able todrive up to Shark Bay, which
apparently we shocked the localsbecause they were like, what do
you mean?
You just drove up to Shark Bay.
We're like, well, we're goingto have a swim.
(03:57):
They're like that's a four-hourdrive you went for a swim.
That is so often the case, sothe locals, just go and have a
go.
We went to the Pinnacles.
We've been to Kalbarri, whichis this absolutely beautiful
national park, and the iconicPink Lakes, so there's just so
much to see.
We've probably barely scratchedthe surface, but just it's a
(04:19):
beautiful little town and we areenjoying each and every day.
Sam Miklos (04:24):
I think that's an interesting point too.
That people forget is you know,if you're going off on these
locum opportunities, it's allthe surrounding area that you
can enjoy, and people say whatam I going to do on the weekends
?
But there's so much to explore.
Ellen Rogers (04:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
On our previous trip to inRockhampton, some of the locums
were like, oh, we don't need acar, we don't, we just stay home
.
And I was like I'm sorry, what?
So we found them in our car andwe took them out to black down
table lands and we found theserock pools and we're swimming in
(04:57):
rock pools in june.
Wow, it's queensland.
So, yeah, it's fun, we'reswimming, swimming in June.
And it was such an amazingexperience and they were all
like we would have never donethat if someone hadn't have
thought to you know, drag usalong On Rockenden's just off
the coast, you've got your poon,your poon yeah.
You've got the beaches, so itwas just wonderful to go
(05:18):
exploring every weekend.
Kate Coomber (05:21):
So I guess let's go back to maybe March last year
, in 2023.
You responded to an email fromthe team, I believe, expressing
interest in locum work.
I understand at the time it wasa little bit challenging, maybe
for you and the family, maybein a bit of a rut, perhaps I
guess what prompted you torespond and maybe to look at
(05:41):
those opportunities yeah, I'mlike.
Ellen Rogers (05:44):
I'll be honest, I probably had a lot of
cornerstone emails in my yeah.
I saw there was many oh no, likewhat I'm in private practice,
this, this is what I do.
Um, and I just was.
Yeah, I was at this majorcrossroads.
I I'm so passionate aboutdentistry but I didn't know how
(06:07):
I was going to be able to keepthat passion going.
I, I could not see how I wasgoing to be able to keep being a
dentist with the way I wasworking.
I would.
I was literally coming home andjust wanting to lay there and
do nothing.
I, I was so at an absolute loss.
Sam Miklos (06:27):
Ellen, was it the work in private practice or was
it the hours?
Like what was it?
Ellen Rogers (06:34):
I think it was the private practice.
I felt like my values werealigning with the work I was
doing.
That's probably the easiest wayto put it and at that point in
time I didn't know that I wasautistic, adhd and having that
(06:55):
diagnosis now I've realizedthere is so much um in being
aligned with with values.
And having that alignment inwork and values just allows me
so much more um sort of abilityto just get up and go each day
(07:15):
and when that, when those valuesaren't aligned, I just I can't
do it.
I cannot do it.
And meeting with with Ruben andhaving that conversation, he
actually listened to my needs.
In that moment I felt heard.
I felt heard and he took thetime to listen to what was
(07:37):
causing me concern and he foundways to accommodate those.
So I said I can't do thiswithout the family.
He found me ways to do it withthe family and for people who
know me, they know once I'vesort of set my mind to it, I'll
find a way to do it.
Kate Coomber (07:57):
Yeah, it sounds like within eight weeks you were
in Rockhampton, you were out ofthere Within eight weeks of
that chat with Reuben and theteam.
Yeah, you were there, you wereoff to Rockhampton.
You were out of there withineight weeks of that chat, that
chat with Reuben and the teamyou were off to Rockhampton.
Now in Geraldton I guess youjust touched on there for the
family of.
How did that work, I guess?
Talk to us about that.
How, how's it been possible totake your family with you?
Ellen Rogers (08:18):
yes, like I would probably say a little bit is
like a lot of it, sorry, is todo with the fact that I have an
amazing partner.
So since the start of thepandemic he's been uh, our
stay-at-home dad.
When COVID hit, I was pregnantwith our second child and when
(08:38):
he was born we both went.
We really don't feelcomfortable putting him straight
into daycare.
Yeah, my partner's contract hadwrapped up in his role and he
didn't want to go back into theworkforce.
He's like can I stay home withthe kids?
And I was like oh my gosh.
Sam Miklos (08:56):
yes, please, yes, yes, you can.
Ellen Rogers (08:59):
Let me go back and you stay home.
And so he took over the schoolruns, the day-to-day house
running.
He even ended up becoming theschool vice president.
I'm PNC vice president and wasdoing all this volunteer work,
but I could see that he wasgetting burnt out.
(09:21):
The kids were really strugglingwith that day-to-day of going to
school and just really gettingworked up about being at school
and what we felt they needed wassomething different, something
that excited them about learning, and we thought, with going on
(09:45):
the road, we could do homeschool.
So, my partner we're bothfairly well educated, we both
have parents who have raised uswell, with lots of really
wonderful opportunities and wejumped on and looked at some
(10:06):
homeschool programs.
So within a few weeks we haddeveloped a curriculum for the
boys.
We'd applied to the homeschoolboard in Queensland at the time
because that's where we workedand it had been accepted.
So we were able to pull themout of school, have them
registered with homeschool andthere was this wonderful company
(10:29):
called Homeschool in a Box, yep, and they sent you all the
things you needed for homeschoolliterally in a box.
Wow.
Kate Coomber (10:37):
I don't think people would think it was that
quick.
Ellen Rogers (10:39):
It was all in curriculum written down and then
it was like here's all thescissors, paper, books, pencils
in a box.
Off we went.
But what I changed in terms oftheir lesson plan was what can
we do with where we're going?
So we're like okay, remember'rein Rockhampton for this first
bit.
Let's make the lessons aboutsomething to do with Rockhampton
(11:02):
Wonderful.
So we went looking forthunderheads and we would go out
to the Capricorn Caves and wewould just try to make learning
more interactive and morefocused.
And that, I think, is whatreally allowed us to take the
kids with us, because it wasabout focusing on what was
(11:23):
around us and what was with usas we went.
We put everything in a littlebox trailer and we got in the
car and we went.
We went.
What do we need?
We don't need a lot Kids don'tneed a giant house full of stuff
.
They need some clothes, theyneed some toys, they need some
(11:43):
parents that are payingattention to what they're doing.
Yeah, and that's what we tookwith us um.
Kate Coomber (11:48):
Have you found the accommodation going to those
locations has been provided, andwas it accessible?
Ellen Rogers (11:55):
Yeah, it has been Like it's been wide and varied
in the types of accommodations.
We made sure that our phoneplans were set up so that we've
always had internet, even if itwasn't something that was
provided at the accommodations,that was provided at the
accommodations They've alwayshad, you know, cooking
(12:20):
facilities.
I have pretty severe foodallergies, so even when we go I
already have my own basic potsand pans that I take, because
even if, cooking with other potsand pans I can get sick, so
that all comes with us.
Um, we've just got a standardlittle camping box that we pack.
(12:42):
Um, I actually even take acompressor, dental drills and an
entire dental dummy because Itake my study with me as a locum
, which most people think isreally strange, but it allows me
to continue doing my trainingcourse while I'm on the road too
(13:04):
, which that goes in the trailerwith us and it travels around
the country and I can do virtualclasses while on the road.
So we've had no issue.
Our kids being young, theystill want a share of a bed.
Yeah, yeah.
Which works really well, becausemost places will have a double
bed in the other room and theyhappily share a room together.
(13:29):
So we've had absolutely noissue with any of the
accommodation that we've beengiven.
It's been wonderful.
Sam Miklos (13:37):
And what about when?
Because at Geraldton now theboys are in school.
How did you get the boys intoschool?
Like coming from Rockhampton,did you drive from Rockhampton
to Geraldton with the car, thetrailer, we?
Ellen Rogers (13:50):
had a few months back at our house in Queensland.
I was doing some private locumwork just back in private
practice for a little bit, wherewe were packing up the house,
sorting out what we're doing,because initially it was like
we're just going to Geraldtonfor a month.
Kate Coomber (14:11):
Yeah.
Ellen Rogers (14:13):
We flew over to Geraldton and we were here and
again still homeschooling theboys, thinking it was just a
short contract.
But we enjoyed it so much thatwe went well, we'll finish the
contract, but how about we comeback for the new year?
Then my partner goes.
I'm really struggling withhaving them home all the time.
Sam Miklos (14:36):
Can the?
Ellen Rogers (14:36):
youngest start kindy, and the youngest has
never been in any form ofanything.
Sam Miklos (14:43):
He's been in a.
Ellen Rogers (14:43):
COVID lockdown.
Sam Miklos (14:44):
Yeah, I've got one of those.
Ellen Rogers (14:46):
He's been in a lockdown for four years and my
partner was like it might betime to let him hang around
other kids.
So we flew home the day beforechristmas 2023 um, christmas
with the family, packed up thetrailer and I think we left the
day after boxing day and spent10 days driving across the
(15:09):
country to come all the way backto g Geraldton.
And in that time um, justbefore we left to get back to
Queensland, I'd madly beenemailing schools that we would
fall in the catchment.
For yeah, it was like um, wewill be in the area in the new
year, can can we fill in a form?
(15:30):
And they were like oh, we closetomorrow.
So I was like filling inpaperwork then he's the form.
Sam Miklos (15:35):
Here's the paperwork .
Ellen Rogers (15:36):
Then he were like, yes, you can have a spot,
you're in the catchment, comedown in the new year.
It was actually quite an easyprocess because they were like,
yeah, you fall in the catchment,you'll be here.
They were very helpful.
So both boys now go to thelocal school.
That's about two blocks awayfrom the house.
(15:58):
How amazing.
Some days they even walk toschool.
To be honest, it's the nicestschool, wow.
Nicest littlest, coziest littleschool I've ever seen.
And the teachers are alltrained in special education
needs.
Uh, we have, we believe bothour boys, um, are on the
(16:23):
spectrum.
Uh, take after me.
Yeah, and the teachers pickedup on that straight away.
Yeah, they.
I hadn't even shared mydiagnosis with them, but they
were like, any chance, you'veconsidered this with your boys?
And I was like, okay, they'repicking up stuff, but they don't
exclude children with that.
(16:45):
They don't put them in adifferent area and make them do
different work.
It's just part of everyone'slearning.
They accommodate everyone andit was so nice to see that that
was just part of the curriculumand it wasn't.
They weren't treateddifferently and they've had such
a wonderful experience.
Sam Miklos (17:06):
Tell us a little bit more about, I guess, the impact
that that experience has had onthe family.
You know, looking back now onwhat you've experienced, what's
the impact been?
Ellen Rogers (17:16):
Yeah, it's just been so amazing to have had this
opportunity to be able to sayI've taken my kids out of school
.
I've taken them.
I think last year we actuallyended up taking them to six
different states.
We travelled 10,000 kilometres.
(17:39):
Wow, because some of that waswe were just doing our own
driving around.
But we just love being able toshow them this beautiful country
that we live in.
Sam Miklos (17:51):
Yeah, and do you Sitting at home?
It's so true, and there's beena lot of memorable moments.
There's got to have been somechallenging times too.
You know the good, the bad, theugly.
What has been hard about thisjourney.
Ellen Rogers (18:07):
Yes, there are definitely some challenges where
you know the rainy days andyou're just stuck at home and
the kids are running around likeyeah and it's loud and you just
need a moment to chill out andyour partner is going.
I've been at home with them allday like I need a break.
(18:28):
I don't have any of my friendshere.
I want to go home.
Yeah and yep.
Sometimes you have to say okay,now we've reached the limit of
this contract yeah we've timetime to go home, yep, um, or
just it's just finding in thatarea ways to make sure you're
(18:49):
still getting recharge time, andrecharge time for your kids and
recharge time for your partner.
Kate Coomber (18:55):
It's, it's just making sure everyone's needs are
being met, and that certainlycan be challenging when you're
new to the area and you'veprobably probably you've
probably prioritized the kidsright and making sure that
they're settled into schools oftheir community and that they
can find happiness, becauseobviously our roles are all a
lot more pleasant when they arehappy and thriving.
(19:17):
And I guess the next steppotentially for you guys sounds
like what's then your circlelook like and what's going to
fill up your cup in those times.
Sam Miklos (19:27):
So, Ellen, let's talk about your career.
What was it that inspired youto become a dentist in the first
place?
Ellen Rogers (19:34):
Yes, and as you said in your intro, I have
wanted to be a dentist Forever.
I grew up with two parents inhealthcare.
My mum was a dental therapistshe worked in the school vans in
Queensland and my dad was acritical care paramedic for the
(19:56):
last part of his career butprior to that, a fireman, prior
to that, a mind rescue, like.
He's just always been in sortof helping people's fields and I
knew I wanted to do somethingthat would be helping people.
(20:19):
I wanted to do something thatwould be helping people and my
mum would come home from workand tell me about the kids that
were crying and the kids thatwere upset, and one particular
story was this kid she had topull some teeth out on and the
mum being like oh why, why aretheir teeth rotten?
I feed them those littlebananas and I give them juice,
(20:42):
and they didn't understand whytheir kids' teeth had broken
down.
Mum goes what do you mean?
Little bananas?
She said they come in thepacket, they're really good
price.
She didn't realise that theywere just lollies and,
unfortunately, the educationaround what to feed their kids
(21:03):
and how to look after theirteeth was just lacking it just
hadn't gotten through and Ithink I was, yeah, somewhere
between 10 or 12 years old and Iwent.
these poor, these people don'tunderstand, no one's taught them
.
And now their kids are scaredand upset about going to the
dentist.
And I knew that I had lovedgoing to the dentist.
(21:26):
I even had teeth out and notbeen scared because of the way
my parents had explained it tome and shown it to me, so I knew
I wanted to create thatexperience for others, and so
everything from high schoolonwards was what can I do to
make sure I get to be thatperson when I grow up?
(21:49):
Um, I think some of my highschool teachers were probably a
little bit scared.
I had some cow teethexperiments from my high school.
Yes, some of them.
One of them actually turned upto be a patient one day.
Oh wow, so they can't have beentoo scared.
(22:10):
No, yes, I love that Like anickname, tooth girl in high
school.
Sam Miklos (22:15):
What about, though, ellen?
Then?
Because you're in privatepractice and I think that can be
daunting for candidates tothink I might want to go and
locum, but I'm not going tolocum in private practice how
easy did you find thattransition from private practice
to then working in regionalhealth services?
Ellen Rogers (22:31):
Well, I didn't find it difficult at all but to
be honest, growing up I onlythought I would ever work in
public health.
When I first graduated.
I started in public health butdue to some really difficult
life events soon aftergraduating, I really quickly
(22:53):
transitioned into privatepractice and found such a lovely
little private clinic that Ithen kind of didn't leave again
for nine years and where I thenended up I was like this isn't
really where I envisioned mydental career, yeah.
So it was more like I movedback into what I thought I would
(23:14):
be working in and so it didn'tfeel foreign to me to go back
into.
If anything, it felt morecomfortable than where I had
been.
I felt more in my element andless like a fish out of water
when you were supposed to be andless like a fish out of water
than where you were supposed tobe.
Sam Miklos (23:35):
And I guess there's that perception.
You know that as a locum youmay not get, you know, the
career progression that youwould have as a permanent
employee or you might notactually be able to have an
impact on the community thatyou're working.
But that's not been the casefor you at all and certainly not
at the role that you're in atGeraldton.
You know you're holding aleadership position.
(23:56):
You've been able to introducesome big initiatives there.
Can you tell us a little bitabout the impact that you've
been able to have locuming inthese roles?
Ellen Rogers (24:06):
Yeah, and yes, I'd certainly agree that there is
that perception that locumsdon't have an impact or perhaps
maybe aren't necessarily verygood at what they do.
They move around too much how?
Sam Miklos (24:19):
can they?
Ellen Rogers (24:20):
how can they have an impact?
Um, whilst what I've alwaystried to do in in coming into a
place is make sure that I'mmaking sure that what I'm doing
is the best I can for thepatients while I'm there, that
I'm speaking up if I seesomething that isn't necessarily
(24:46):
being done to the best evidenceand not because I'm trying to
say someone is doing somethingwrong and not because I'm trying
to say someone is doingsomething wrong.
I just want to share what Iknow.
So make sure that you knowanything that I might have
learned over the years.
I'm taking that time to shareit with others and then giving
(25:09):
as much time as I can to thosepeople while I'm there.
So if I have that opportunityto stay longer while I do my
best to stay longer, because sooften, especially in regional
areas, they haven't had, yeah,some.
So it's trying to stay umlonger and be consistent so that
(25:30):
it's not chopping and changingall the time.
So some of the things that I'vebeen able to do really soon
within starting, I was asked tobe a supervisor of dental
students, so really rapidly thenI was then watching fifth-year
dental students to help guidetheir learning and their
(25:51):
training, and that sort ofshocked me because I did not
think as a locum I would getthat opportunity so quickly.
And then what I noticed in oneof those roles is you've got
nitrous oxide equipment justsitting in a cupboard.
Why is that not being used?
Oh, no, one here has trainingin that.
(26:12):
I've got 10 years of trainingin that.
Here's my certificates.
Am I allowed to use it?
You've got training in that.
I've got 10 years of trainingin that.
Here's my certificates.
Am I allowed to use it?
He's got training in it.
Yes, you're allowed to use that.
And so within a few weeks wehad been able to start getting
patients who had been sitting ona GA list that was non-existent
because they didn't have anether to set that hospital very
(26:35):
regularly.
And we could get anxiouspatients in who weren't being
able to be treated because theywere too scared.
But we could get the nitrousoxide and we could get their
dental work done.
That's amazing and very suddenlythose nitrous appointments were
like three times a week.
Sam Miklos (26:53):
I was going to say I bet that became a busy list.
Ellen Rogers (26:56):
But then, because people saw me using it, other
people were like wait, that'sall you need to do to use
nitrous.
Oh, how do you do the training?
I'm like this is how you do thecourse and it so rapidly became
other people just going off anddoing the training and then
more people know how to use itand that equipment then gets
(27:18):
utilised even after I'm gone.
Sam Miklos (27:21):
Like it's your legacy that you've essentially
left there.
Ellen Rogers (27:23):
Yeah, and then what that has led to is, yeah,
I'm now in a leadership role,I'm managing an entire region.
I've got anyone we come across,four or five different clinics,
prison and we've been able todevelop a GA list over here in
an area that's not had a publicdental GA list before, and the
(27:48):
team here had already starteddeveloping it but they didn't
have a dentist to startimplementing it, and so I've
been able to get credential withthe hospital.
We've set up all the instrumentpacks and then we started
getting the patients through,and mostly it's children who
(28:08):
have been so anxious and anduncooperative because of their
anxiety that they've been sortof left in limbo.
Well, you could go to purse,but that's really hard for
people to just go to birth andwait on them, and expensive as
well.
By that point their teeth haveoften gotten worse and they're
(28:30):
in pain and we do a list ofmonths, but we're able to get
more frequently as it's beengrowing and it's just been an
amazing opportunity to see thisbe developed and to be able to
offer it to people, to be ableto keep them closer to home and
(28:51):
not have them traveling where wecan.
It's not for everyone, becausewe're a regional hospital and
they can't take every case, butit's just excellent that it
exists for patients.
Kate Coomber (29:08):
We were going to ask about the differences that
you've seen and experiencedbetween regional areas versus
metro areas and what's availableand and is there a real
difference in dental care?
And I guess you've justhighlighted there some of the
key differences of accessibility, but you've really already had
that impact to make that moreaccessible.
Ellen Rogers (29:29):
Yeah, and there is a huge difference.
There's often very fewspecialists that come out to the
regional areas and, to be fair,there's often few specialists
across the country in somefields.
Yeah and few specialists acrossthe country in some fields, in
(29:49):
special needs, there's only, Ibelieve, 25 special needs
dentists in the whole country.
Wow, I know there's more thatare graduating, so the number's
probably slightly more butacross that whole country you
can't expect to have one in eachregional town.
So being able to help patientswho have special health care
(30:11):
needs in terms of being able toaccess a GA locally or just
being able to have connectionsand knowing who to call for a
consult to help patients, sothat if there is a way we can
manage them locally, it helpsimprove their access to care and
that patients who might nothave great mobility or access to
travel are still getting care,they're still getting seen.
(30:34):
We're helping with theircommunication and their sensory
needs and their coordinationwith their doctors.
Just being able to offer thatbecause we've taken the time to
do that training.
Sometimes, if you don't know,you don't know to offer it.
Kate Coomber (30:58):
And I guess you've had that personal experience as
well.
It sounds like you talked thereabout your own diagnosis of
autism and ADHD, I believe.
I guess how has that impactedyou, if at all, professionally?
Ellen Rogers (31:15):
I feel like it was a light bulb moment for me
because for years I've alwaysbeen passionate about helping
anxious patients and felt like Icould always pick up on the
vibes.
I guess of patients and could,without them saying anything,
(31:40):
could tell they're not reallyfeeling very comfortable right
now.
Maybe someone would be quiteaggressive a counter or
aggressive, but really it camedown to that something wasn't
being accommodated for them.
Either they didn't understandsomething, something was
bothering them, they were scared, they were uncomfortable.
(32:00):
But you could sit.
I felt like I could sense it,and it always allowed me these
opportunities to sit and talkwith a patient, listen to a
patient and find a way to makethem feel more comfortable, and
then, having that diagnosis, Iwent.
This makes so much more sense.
I am just picking up on thingsdifferently.
(32:25):
I read the room differently toother people.
I read the room differently toother people.
I'm noticing things differentlyto other people, and it's not a
bad thing, it's not anything inthat way, but it's just allowed
me to connect with patientsdifferently and it's made me
(32:46):
think of problems from adifferent point of view, um, and
I think it's really helped inmy career because I've been able
to connect with a lot of reallyreally um, generally what
people call difficult patients,but they're not difficult
they're just not.
(33:06):
People haven't realized that'swhat has been making them feel
uncomfortable about coming tothe dentist just need to be
understood yeah, and I thinkthat is what has made me so feel
so passionate about making sureI stay in dentistry like I have
(33:26):
struggled with chronic pain,I've struggled with burnout, but
I always want to come back.
I never.
I think there was a point earlyin my career where I ended up
in two hand braces because I hadreally severe tendinitis and
I'm still dragging myself intowork and I would take the hand
(33:47):
braces off.
I had really severe tendinitisand I'm still dragging myself
into work to take it and I wouldtake the hand braces off and go
nothing is here and everyone'slike.
You need to rest.
And that's probably one of thehardest parts is I'm not the
best at listening to my body andI've realized now with this
diagnosis, that that's the partthat I struggle with.
Um, is um just actuallylistening to what my body needs?
(34:13):
Um, but the rest is like oh.
That's why my brain is neverquiet.
That's why there's always aspider web of thoughts going
what, what's happening with this?
What's, what's my next plan forthat?
Are they thinking of 10 milliondifferent things at once?
Kate Coomber (34:31):
it finally just makes sense that my whole life
was, was just a lot of noise inmy brain sounds like a lot of
clarity came from that for youto really understand and also
where you need to be and whatyou need to be doing to get the
best for you.
Do you see that there'sopportunities, or what
(34:53):
opportunities do you see tobetter support neurodiversity?
Ellen Rogers (34:55):
in dentistry.
There's so many opportunities.
I personally think there'sactually a lot of dental
professionals who areneurodivergent in some way,
whether that be autism, adhdcombination or other types of
neurodivergent.
I feel like dentistry itselflends itself to autism and ADHD
(35:22):
as a career, because it both hasthis lovely routine to it but
this great new and differentthings every day.
So I do my systematic thinking,but I never know what's going
to come through the door.
Friday afternoon three o'clockI've got a facial trauma, but
let's follow the trauma guideand we'll split their teeth and
(35:44):
thankfully they were okay.
That was last.
Kate Coomber (35:47):
Friday.
That was until 7.
Ellen Rogers (35:49):
But it's also important then, from an
employer's perspective, to makesure they're looking at work
accommodations likepresentations, learning
environments, meetingenvironments Like.
Are we looking at learning andmeetings in an accessible way?
Are we providing information inaccessible ways?
(36:11):
Are we allowing people to workin ways that are beneficial for
everyone?
Are the work environmentsaccessible?
The industry has some prettyhorrible environments.
It's a big bear Like.
They have these bright overheadlights and these noisy, noisy
(36:35):
drills, and that then leads intowanting to look after the
patients.
They're sitting there in themost vulnerable position,
running back now, running lightsin their eyes.
Are we making sure we've gotsome dark glasses?
Are we offering them somethingfor their ears or reminding them
(36:56):
they can bring something forthemselves, something to keep
them comfortable?
And then you know just as simpleas looking to your own website
and going are we using our ownpictures?
Have we got photos of the team?
Have we got um photos of theclinic or a virtual tour so that
(37:18):
people can jump on before theycome in and get familiar with
the environment, and if we'vegot a map of where to park, how
to find a front door, maybe aletter that goes out to patients
that says what we expect onyour first visit, or little
social stories that sort ofexplain what happens for a plane
, and just little things likethat that can really make
(37:43):
someone's experience with comingto visit you a little bit less
daunting because they havesomething in their mind already,
whereas if you've got thisreally generic website, it
doesn't show any photos, itdoesn't show what you look like
or how to find you.
Um, someone who isneurodivergent probably isn't
(38:04):
going to want to come therebecause it's too unknown and
it's too daunting and they'lljust find somewhere different or
they'll avoid it altogether.
Sam Miklos (38:12):
Sounds like there's.
I was just going to say,because even in Geraldton, am I
right, that you have alsocreated like a five-page
induction program as well tomake it easier for locums or
anyone as such coming to theservice?
Kate Coomber (38:27):
so small adjustments, by the sounds of it
, that have such huge impact onother people.
Ellen Rogers (38:31):
Yeah, I found it.
Um, I couldn't find the clinicon the first day.
Yeah, I didn't know where itwas, um, and so I was like, well
, if I don't know where it was,how will I, how will other
locums know where it is?
And so I walked around and Itook some photos and made some
like Google Maps screenshots andlinks and just wrote a little
(38:54):
blurb and then said, am Iallowed to send this out when we
have a new staff member coming?
And they were like you madethis.
And I was like, oh, it's just alittle something.
But they were like, yes, pleasesend that out.
That's amazing, ellen.
Yeah, all of our clinics are onschool properties so they're
really hard to find.
(39:14):
They're not like you can'twrite into Google the address
because it just puts up theschool Right.
And trying to find the therapycentres is a little bit
confusing if you're new to townand you also don't know the
schools or the area.
Sam Miklos (39:31):
So, yeah, I thought that would just be a bit more
helpful.
That's amazing, ellen.
Your experience is so uniqueand special.
Actually, you are so unique andspecial.
Like just talking to you hasjust been amazing.
If a working healthcareprofessional is listening to
this podcast now and going, oh,do I do this?
(39:52):
Do I take a sea change or atree change, what would you say
to them?
Let's say, do it like just getin there.
Ellen Rogers (40:01):
Yeah, you don't know.
You don't know what tomorrowholds Like.
None of us know where we willbe.
We don't know how long we have.
If you're thinking of doing it,if you want something different
, if you're wanting to travel,just do it.
You can't sit around sayingI'll do it when my kids graduate
(40:25):
, I'll do it.
Kate Coomber (40:25):
There's never a good time is there.
Ellen Rogers (40:27):
Because we're not guaranteed that time.
Yeah, we honestly don't knowhow long we have, and that was a
really big factor in usdeciding to just go and do
something different.
Kate Coomber (40:43):
Yeah, look, we thank you so much for being so
open, so candid and reallysharing your story.
We're going to shine a light ona charity close to your heart
today as well, and CMR aredonating $500 to that charity.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what charity you've chosen
and why?
Ellen Rogers (41:03):
Yeah, I've chosen the ADA Dental Health Foundation
.
They seek to improve the dentalhealth of Australians,
especially ones who can't afforddental care.
They work with pro bono dentaltreatment plans, with dental
volunteers, through registeredcharities and not-for-profit
(41:27):
agencies.
So one of their programs inparticular is called the
Rebuilding Smiles Program, whichrebuilds smiles for patients
affected by family and domesticviolence.
They fund these programs andencourage the better oral health
outcomes to reduce inequalityacross Australia, as well as
(41:54):
looking at programs to improveeducation within the community.
So they do community servicegrants, first Nations study
grants and oral health educationprograms.
That's amazing, fabulousfabulous.
Kate Coomber (42:06):
Yeah, thank you.
It's so nice to really hearabout these organizations and
charities that people may nothave come across before, and to
not only donate the money butreally to highlight them and to
to share people, to to reallyraise that awareness.
We thank you so much forsharing.
Look, it's been so nice to talkto you and I think that that
your story really is going to bean inspiration for others.
(42:28):
I think there'll certainly beother people listening who may
not be as open with themselvesor others as you have been, and
I think we really thank you forthat, because I think the impact
you can have more broadlyacross dentistry and the
healthcare community, I think ishuge.
So thank you so much foreverything you've shared with us
(42:48):
today.
Ellen Rogers (42:50):
Thank you so much for having me.
Sam Miklos (42:52):
It's been a pleasure .
Thanks, Ellen.
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to share, rate andreview.
This allows us to reach morepeople and share more incredible
stories.
Click the follow or subscribebutton to ensure you never miss
an episode.
We care for the lan, we care for the energy.
We care for our community.
We care.
Welcome to it Takes Heart.
(00:21):
I'm Sam Miklos and I'm KateCoomba.
We hope you enjoy theseincredible stories of healthcare
professionals making adifference in communities across
Australia and beyond.
Through our conversations, welook to celebrate the spirit of
community and care.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land who have
long practised and sharedancient methods of healing,
providing care and support fortheir communities with wisdom
(00:44):
passed down through generations.
Kate Coomber (00:46):
Join us as we explore what it truly means to
take heart.
Sam Miklos (00:55):
Okay, welcome.
We are so looking forward todayto spending time with Ellen
Rogers, who's been locuming withCornerstone since March 2023.
Ellen is currently on locum asthe dentist in charge in
Geraldton, western Australia.
She is loving the opportunitiesthat she's having to give the
community greater access todental care.
But what is particularly uniqueabout Ellen's story is that she
(01:18):
has been able to take herpartner and her two young boys
along with her on this adventure.
Growing up on Bribie Island inQueensland, ellen has wanted to
be a dentist since she was 10,and her journey to where she is
today has certainly taken manytwists and turns.
She spent 10 years in privatepractice, but lockdowns and a
major foot injury brought achance encounter with the
(01:39):
Cornerstone Dental team.
The team helped Ellencoordinate placements where
family and work could go hand inhand.
What a great opportunity.
The team and our clientsdescribe Ellen as a passionate,
dedicated dentist who willalways do the right thing no
matter what, and in recentplacement in Geraldton she has
had such enormous value not onlyto the health service but the
(02:01):
wider Geraldton communitythrough a host of initiatives.
Welcome Ellen to the it TakesHeart podcast.
Hi thank you so much for havingme.
You're so welcome.
We're so excited to talk to youtoday, so I guess I'd really
love to start understanding whatdoes life look like for you and
your family living and workingin Geraldton, having come from
(02:22):
Bribie Island and working inGeraldton, having come from
Bribie Island, surprisingly,being on the absolute opposite
side of the country.
Ellen Rogers (02:30):
It's really similar to what I grew up in.
It's this lovely little townwith such a small-knit community
, but just the environment is sowelcoming.
It's this beautiful beach town.
It's always windy, like thewind doesn't, but um, that keeps
(02:53):
it nice and cool.
So people always say to me butwasn't it like 50 degrees?
I was just about to say don'tyou get like 50 degree days
there?
Um, but yet it's, it's a dryheat.
So, having grown up inqueensland, where you really
humid heat, um, which my partnerhated, so he's loving the dry
heat um getting down.
(03:14):
We go down to the beach afterwork, um which, because we're on
the west coast, the sun issetting a bit later so we can
have a swim in the afternoon.
We can enjoy the park with thekids after work, have a walk,
have a, have a play, um, it'sjust such a nice relaxing time
(03:35):
with with the kids, um, even tosee the sunset on the weekends
we're getting to explore therest of the country, so we've
never been over the side.
You know, we've been able todrive up to Shark Bay, which
apparently we shocked the localsbecause they were like, what do
you mean?
You just drove up to Shark Bay.
We're like, well, we're goingto have a swim.
(03:57):
They're like that's a four-hourdrive you went for a swim.
That is so often the case, sothe locals, just go and have a
go.
We went to the Pinnacles.
We've been to Kalbarri, whichis this absolutely beautiful
national park, and the iconicPink Lakes, so there's just so
much to see.
We've probably barely scratchedthe surface, but just it's a
(04:19):
beautiful little town and we areenjoying each and every day.
Sam Miklos (04:24):
I think that's an interesting point too.
That people forget is you know,if you're going off on these
locum opportunities, it's allthe surrounding area that you
can enjoy, and people say whatam I going to do on the weekends
?
But there's so much to explore.
Ellen Rogers (04:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
On our previous trip to inRockhampton, some of the locums
were like, oh, we don't need acar, we don't, we just stay home
.
And I was like I'm sorry, what?
So we found them in our car andwe took them out to black down
table lands and we found theserock pools and we're swimming in
(04:57):
rock pools in june.
Wow, it's queensland.
So, yeah, it's fun, we'reswimming, swimming in June.
And it was such an amazingexperience and they were all
like we would have never donethat if someone hadn't have
thought to you know, drag usalong On Rockenden's just off
the coast, you've got your poon,your poon yeah.
You've got the beaches, so itwas just wonderful to go
(05:18):
exploring every weekend.
Kate Coomber (05:21):
So I guess let's go back to maybe March last year
, in 2023.
You responded to an email fromthe team, I believe, expressing
interest in locum work.
I understand at the time it wasa little bit challenging, maybe
for you and the family, maybein a bit of a rut, perhaps I
guess what prompted you torespond and maybe to look at
(05:41):
those opportunities yeah, I'mlike.
Ellen Rogers (05:44):
I'll be honest, I probably had a lot of
cornerstone emails in my yeah.
I saw there was many oh no, likewhat I'm in private practice,
this, this is what I do.
Um, and I just was.
Yeah, I was at this majorcrossroads.
I I'm so passionate aboutdentistry but I didn't know how
(06:07):
I was going to be able to keepthat passion going.
I, I could not see how I wasgoing to be able to keep being a
dentist with the way I wasworking.
I would.
I was literally coming home andjust wanting to lay there and
do nothing.
I, I was so at an absolute loss.
Sam Miklos (06:27):
Ellen, was it the work in private practice or was
it the hours?
Like what was it?
Ellen Rogers (06:34):
I think it was the private practice.
I felt like my values werealigning with the work I was
doing.
That's probably the easiest wayto put it and at that point in
time I didn't know that I wasautistic, adhd and having that
(06:55):
diagnosis now I've realizedthere is so much um in being
aligned with with values.
And having that alignment inwork and values just allows me
so much more um sort of abilityto just get up and go each day
(07:15):
and when that, when those valuesaren't aligned, I just I can't
do it.
I cannot do it.
And meeting with with Ruben andhaving that conversation, he
actually listened to my needs.
In that moment I felt heard.
I felt heard and he took thetime to listen to what was
(07:37):
causing me concern and he foundways to accommodate those.
So I said I can't do thiswithout the family.
He found me ways to do it withthe family and for people who
know me, they know once I'vesort of set my mind to it, I'll
find a way to do it.
Kate Coomber (07:57):
Yeah, it sounds like within eight weeks you were
in Rockhampton, you were out ofthere Within eight weeks of
that chat with Reuben and theteam.
Yeah, you were there, you wereoff to Rockhampton.
You were out of there withineight weeks of that chat, that
chat with Reuben and the teamyou were off to Rockhampton.
Now in Geraldton I guess youjust touched on there for the
family of.
How did that work, I guess?
Talk to us about that.
How, how's it been possible totake your family with you?
Ellen Rogers (08:18):
yes, like I would probably say a little bit is
like a lot of it, sorry, is todo with the fact that I have an
amazing partner.
So since the start of thepandemic he's been uh, our
stay-at-home dad.
When COVID hit, I was pregnantwith our second child and when
(08:38):
he was born we both went.
We really don't feelcomfortable putting him straight
into daycare.
Yeah, my partner's contract hadwrapped up in his role and he
didn't want to go back into theworkforce.
He's like can I stay home withthe kids?
And I was like oh my gosh.
Sam Miklos (08:56):
yes, please, yes, yes, you can.
Ellen Rogers (08:59):
Let me go back and you stay home.
And so he took over the schoolruns, the day-to-day house
running.
He even ended up becoming theschool vice president.
I'm PNC vice president and wasdoing all this volunteer work,
but I could see that he wasgetting burnt out.
(09:21):
The kids were really strugglingwith that day-to-day of going to
school and just really gettingworked up about being at school
and what we felt they needed wassomething different, something
that excited them about learning, and we thought, with going on
(09:45):
the road, we could do homeschool.
So, my partner we're bothfairly well educated, we both
have parents who have raised uswell, with lots of really
wonderful opportunities and wejumped on and looked at some
(10:06):
homeschool programs.
So within a few weeks we haddeveloped a curriculum for the
boys.
We'd applied to the homeschoolboard in Queensland at the time
because that's where we workedand it had been accepted.
So we were able to pull themout of school, have them
registered with homeschool andthere was this wonderful company
(10:29):
called Homeschool in a Box, yep, and they sent you all the
things you needed for homeschoolliterally in a box.
Wow.
Kate Coomber (10:37):
I don't think people would think it was that
quick.
Ellen Rogers (10:39):
It was all in curriculum written down and then
it was like here's all thescissors, paper, books, pencils
in a box.
Off we went.
But what I changed in terms oftheir lesson plan was what can
we do with where we're going?
So we're like okay, remember'rein Rockhampton for this first
bit.
Let's make the lessons aboutsomething to do with Rockhampton
(11:02):
Wonderful.
So we went looking forthunderheads and we would go out
to the Capricorn Caves and wewould just try to make learning
more interactive and morefocused.
And that, I think, is whatreally allowed us to take the
kids with us, because it wasabout focusing on what was
(11:23):
around us and what was with usas we went.
We put everything in a littlebox trailer and we got in the
car and we went.
We went.
What do we need?
We don't need a lot Kids don'tneed a giant house full of stuff
.
They need some clothes, theyneed some toys, they need some
(11:43):
parents that are payingattention to what they're doing.
Yeah, and that's what we tookwith us um.
Kate Coomber (11:48):
Have you found the accommodation going to those
locations has been provided, andwas it accessible?
Ellen Rogers (11:55):
Yeah, it has been Like it's been wide and varied
in the types of accommodations.
We made sure that our phoneplans were set up so that we've
always had internet, even if itwasn't something that was
provided at the accommodations,that was provided at the
accommodations They've alwayshad, you know, cooking
(12:20):
facilities.
I have pretty severe foodallergies, so even when we go I
already have my own basic potsand pans that I take, because
even if, cooking with other potsand pans I can get sick, so
that all comes with us.
Um, we've just got a standardlittle camping box that we pack.
(12:42):
Um, I actually even take acompressor, dental drills and an
entire dental dummy because Itake my study with me as a locum
, which most people think isreally strange, but it allows me
to continue doing my trainingcourse while I'm on the road too
(13:04):
, which that goes in the trailerwith us and it travels around
the country and I can do virtualclasses while on the road.
So we've had no issue.
Our kids being young, theystill want a share of a bed.
Yeah, yeah.
Which works really well, becausemost places will have a double
bed in the other room and theyhappily share a room together.
(13:29):
So we've had absolutely noissue with any of the
accommodation that we've beengiven.
It's been wonderful.
Sam Miklos (13:37):
And what about when?
Because at Geraldton now theboys are in school.
How did you get the boys intoschool?
Like coming from Rockhampton,did you drive from Rockhampton
to Geraldton with the car, thetrailer, we?
Ellen Rogers (13:50):
had a few months back at our house in Queensland.
I was doing some private locumwork just back in private
practice for a little bit, wherewe were packing up the house,
sorting out what we're doing,because initially it was like
we're just going to Geraldtonfor a month.
Kate Coomber (14:11):
Yeah.
Ellen Rogers (14:13):
We flew over to Geraldton and we were here and
again still homeschooling theboys, thinking it was just a
short contract.
But we enjoyed it so much thatwe went well, we'll finish the
contract, but how about we comeback for the new year?
Then my partner goes.
I'm really struggling withhaving them home all the time.
Sam Miklos (14:36):
Can the?
Ellen Rogers (14:36):
youngest start kindy, and the youngest has
never been in any form ofanything.
Sam Miklos (14:43):
He's been in a.
Ellen Rogers (14:43):
COVID lockdown.
Sam Miklos (14:44):
Yeah, I've got one of those.
Ellen Rogers (14:46):
He's been in a lockdown for four years and my
partner was like it might betime to let him hang around
other kids.
So we flew home the day beforechristmas 2023 um, christmas
with the family, packed up thetrailer and I think we left the
day after boxing day and spent10 days driving across the
(15:09):
country to come all the way backto g Geraldton.
And in that time um, justbefore we left to get back to
Queensland, I'd madly beenemailing schools that we would
fall in the catchment.
For yeah, it was like um, wewill be in the area in the new
year, can can we fill in a form?
(15:30):
And they were like oh, we closetomorrow.
So I was like filling inpaperwork then he's the form.
Sam Miklos (15:35):
Here's the paperwork .
Ellen Rogers (15:36):
Then he were like, yes, you can have a spot,
you're in the catchment, comedown in the new year.
It was actually quite an easyprocess because they were like,
yeah, you fall in the catchment,you'll be here.
They were very helpful.
So both boys now go to thelocal school.
That's about two blocks awayfrom the house.
(15:58):
How amazing.
Some days they even walk toschool.
To be honest, it's the nicestschool, wow.
Nicest littlest, coziest littleschool I've ever seen.
And the teachers are alltrained in special education
needs.
Uh, we have, we believe bothour boys, um, are on the
(16:23):
spectrum.
Uh, take after me.
Yeah, and the teachers pickedup on that straight away.
Yeah, they.
I hadn't even shared mydiagnosis with them, but they
were like, any chance, you'veconsidered this with your boys?
And I was like, okay, they'repicking up stuff, but they don't
exclude children with that.
(16:45):
They don't put them in adifferent area and make them do
different work.
It's just part of everyone'slearning.
They accommodate everyone andit was so nice to see that that
was just part of the curriculumand it wasn't.
They weren't treateddifferently and they've had such
a wonderful experience.
Sam Miklos (17:06):
Tell us a little bit more about, I guess, the impact
that that experience has had onthe family.
You know, looking back now onwhat you've experienced, what's
the impact been?
Ellen Rogers (17:16):
Yeah, it's just been so amazing to have had this
opportunity to be able to sayI've taken my kids out of school
.
I've taken them.
I think last year we actuallyended up taking them to six
different states.
We travelled 10,000 kilometres.
(17:39):
Wow, because some of that waswe were just doing our own
driving around.
But we just love being able toshow them this beautiful country
that we live in.
Sam Miklos (17:51):
Yeah, and do you Sitting at home?
It's so true, and there's beena lot of memorable moments.
There's got to have been somechallenging times too.
You know the good, the bad, theugly.
What has been hard about thisjourney.
Ellen Rogers (18:07):
Yes, there are definitely some challenges where
you know the rainy days andyou're just stuck at home and
the kids are running around likeyeah and it's loud and you just
need a moment to chill out andyour partner is going.
I've been at home with them allday like I need a break.
(18:28):
I don't have any of my friendshere.
I want to go home.
Yeah and yep.
Sometimes you have to say okay,now we've reached the limit of
this contract yeah we've timetime to go home, yep, um, or
just it's just finding in thatarea ways to make sure you're
(18:49):
still getting recharge time, andrecharge time for your kids and
recharge time for your partner.
Kate Coomber (18:55):
It's, it's just making sure everyone's needs are
being met, and that certainlycan be challenging when you're
new to the area and you'veprobably probably you've
probably prioritized the kidsright and making sure that
they're settled into schools oftheir community and that they
can find happiness, becauseobviously our roles are all a
lot more pleasant when they arehappy and thriving.
(19:17):
And I guess the next steppotentially for you guys sounds
like what's then your circlelook like and what's going to
fill up your cup in those times.
Sam Miklos (19:27):
So, Ellen, let's talk about your career.
What was it that inspired youto become a dentist in the first
place?
Ellen Rogers (19:34):
Yes, and as you said in your intro, I have
wanted to be a dentist Forever.
I grew up with two parents inhealthcare.
My mum was a dental therapistshe worked in the school vans in
Queensland and my dad was acritical care paramedic for the
(19:56):
last part of his career butprior to that, a fireman, prior
to that, a mind rescue, like.
He's just always been in sortof helping people's fields and I
knew I wanted to do somethingthat would be helping people.
(20:19):
I wanted to do something thatwould be helping people and my
mum would come home from workand tell me about the kids that
were crying and the kids thatwere upset, and one particular
story was this kid she had topull some teeth out on and the
mum being like oh why, why aretheir teeth rotten?
I feed them those littlebananas and I give them juice,
(20:42):
and they didn't understand whytheir kids' teeth had broken
down.
Mum goes what do you mean?
Little bananas?
She said they come in thepacket, they're really good
price.
She didn't realise that theywere just lollies and,
unfortunately, the educationaround what to feed their kids
(21:03):
and how to look after theirteeth was just lacking it just
hadn't gotten through and Ithink I was, yeah, somewhere
between 10 or 12 years old and Iwent.
these poor, these people don'tunderstand, no one's taught them
.
And now their kids are scaredand upset about going to the
dentist.
And I knew that I had lovedgoing to the dentist.
(21:26):
I even had teeth out and notbeen scared because of the way
my parents had explained it tome and shown it to me, so I knew
I wanted to create thatexperience for others, and so
everything from high schoolonwards was what can I do to
make sure I get to be thatperson when I grow up?
(21:49):
Um, I think some of my highschool teachers were probably a
little bit scared.
I had some cow teethexperiments from my high school.
Yes, some of them.
One of them actually turned upto be a patient one day.
Oh wow, so they can't have beentoo scared.
(22:10):
No, yes, I love that Like anickname, tooth girl in high
school.
Sam Miklos (22:15):
What about, though, ellen?
Then?
Because you're in privatepractice and I think that can be
daunting for candidates tothink I might want to go and
locum, but I'm not going tolocum in private practice how
easy did you find thattransition from private practice
to then working in regionalhealth services?
Ellen Rogers (22:31):
Well, I didn't find it difficult at all but to
be honest, growing up I onlythought I would ever work in
public health.
When I first graduated.
I started in public health butdue to some really difficult
life events soon aftergraduating, I really quickly
(22:53):
transitioned into privatepractice and found such a lovely
little private clinic that Ithen kind of didn't leave again
for nine years and where I thenended up I was like this isn't
really where I envisioned mydental career, yeah.
So it was more like I movedback into what I thought I would
(23:14):
be working in and so it didn'tfeel foreign to me to go back
into.
If anything, it felt morecomfortable than where I had
been.
I felt more in my element andless like a fish out of water
when you were supposed to be andless like a fish out of water
than where you were supposed tobe.
Sam Miklos (23:35):
And I guess there's that perception.
You know that as a locum youmay not get, you know, the
career progression that youwould have as a permanent
employee or you might notactually be able to have an
impact on the community thatyou're working.
But that's not been the casefor you at all and certainly not
at the role that you're in atGeraldton.
You know you're holding aleadership position.
(23:56):
You've been able to introducesome big initiatives there.
Can you tell us a little bitabout the impact that you've
been able to have locuming inthese roles?
Ellen Rogers (24:06):
Yeah, and yes, I'd certainly agree that there is
that perception that locumsdon't have an impact or perhaps
maybe aren't necessarily verygood at what they do.
They move around too much how?
Sam Miklos (24:19):
can they?
Ellen Rogers (24:20):
how can they have an impact?
Um, whilst what I've alwaystried to do in in coming into a
place is make sure that I'mmaking sure that what I'm doing
is the best I can for thepatients while I'm there, that
I'm speaking up if I seesomething that isn't necessarily
(24:46):
being done to the best evidenceand not because I'm trying to
say someone is doing somethingwrong and not because I'm trying
to say someone is doingsomething wrong.
I just want to share what Iknow.
So make sure that you knowanything that I might have
learned over the years.
I'm taking that time to shareit with others and then giving
(25:09):
as much time as I can to thosepeople while I'm there.
So if I have that opportunityto stay longer while I do my
best to stay longer, because sooften, especially in regional
areas, they haven't had, yeah,some.
So it's trying to stay umlonger and be consistent so that
(25:30):
it's not chopping and changingall the time.
So some of the things that I'vebeen able to do really soon
within starting, I was asked tobe a supervisor of dental
students, so really rapidly thenI was then watching fifth-year
dental students to help guidetheir learning and their
(25:51):
training, and that sort ofshocked me because I did not
think as a locum I would getthat opportunity so quickly.
And then what I noticed in oneof those roles is you've got
nitrous oxide equipment justsitting in a cupboard.
Why is that not being used?
Oh, no, one here has trainingin that.
(26:12):
I've got 10 years of trainingin that.
Here's my certificates.
Am I allowed to use it?
You've got training in that.
I've got 10 years of trainingin that.
Here's my certificates.
Am I allowed to use it?
He's got training in it.
Yes, you're allowed to use that.
And so within a few weeks wehad been able to start getting
patients who had been sitting ona GA list that was non-existent
because they didn't have anether to set that hospital very
(26:35):
regularly.
And we could get anxiouspatients in who weren't being
able to be treated because theywere too scared.
But we could get the nitrousoxide and we could get their
dental work done.
That's amazing and very suddenlythose nitrous appointments were
like three times a week.
Sam Miklos (26:53):
I was going to say I bet that became a busy list.
Ellen Rogers (26:56):
But then, because people saw me using it, other
people were like wait, that'sall you need to do to use
nitrous.
Oh, how do you do the training?
I'm like this is how you do thecourse and it so rapidly became
other people just going off anddoing the training and then
more people know how to use itand that equipment then gets
(27:18):
utilised even after I'm gone.
Sam Miklos (27:21):
Like it's your legacy that you've essentially
left there.
Ellen Rogers (27:23):
Yeah, and then what that has led to is, yeah,
I'm now in a leadership role,I'm managing an entire region.
I've got anyone we come across,four or five different clinics,
prison and we've been able todevelop a GA list over here in
an area that's not had a publicdental GA list before, and the
(27:48):
team here had already starteddeveloping it but they didn't
have a dentist to startimplementing it, and so I've
been able to get credential withthe hospital.
We've set up all the instrumentpacks and then we started
getting the patients through,and mostly it's children who
(28:08):
have been so anxious and anduncooperative because of their
anxiety that they've been sortof left in limbo.
Well, you could go to purse,but that's really hard for
people to just go to birth andwait on them, and expensive as
well.
By that point their teeth haveoften gotten worse and they're
(28:30):
in pain and we do a list ofmonths, but we're able to get
more frequently as it's beengrowing and it's just been an
amazing opportunity to see thisbe developed and to be able to
offer it to people, to be ableto keep them closer to home and
(28:51):
not have them traveling where wecan.
It's not for everyone, becausewe're a regional hospital and
they can't take every case, butit's just excellent that it
exists for patients.
Kate Coomber (29:08):
We were going to ask about the differences that
you've seen and experiencedbetween regional areas versus
metro areas and what's availableand and is there a real
difference in dental care?
And I guess you've justhighlighted there some of the
key differences of accessibility, but you've really already had
that impact to make that moreaccessible.
Ellen Rogers (29:29):
Yeah, and there is a huge difference.
There's often very fewspecialists that come out to the
regional areas and, to be fair,there's often few specialists
across the country in somefields.
Yeah and few specialists acrossthe country in some fields, in
(29:49):
special needs, there's only, Ibelieve, 25 special needs
dentists in the whole country.
Wow, I know there's more thatare graduating, so the number's
probably slightly more butacross that whole country you
can't expect to have one in eachregional town.
So being able to help patientswho have special health care
(30:11):
needs in terms of being able toaccess a GA locally or just
being able to have connectionsand knowing who to call for a
consult to help patients, sothat if there is a way we can
manage them locally, it helpsimprove their access to care and
that patients who might nothave great mobility or access to
travel are still getting care,they're still getting seen.
(30:34):
We're helping with theircommunication and their sensory
needs and their coordinationwith their doctors.
Just being able to offer thatbecause we've taken the time to
do that training.
Sometimes, if you don't know,you don't know to offer it.
Kate Coomber (30:58):
And I guess you've had that personal experience as
well.
It sounds like you talked thereabout your own diagnosis of
autism and ADHD, I believe.
I guess how has that impactedyou, if at all, professionally?
Ellen Rogers (31:15):
I feel like it was a light bulb moment for me
because for years I've alwaysbeen passionate about helping
anxious patients and felt like Icould always pick up on the
vibes.
I guess of patients and could,without them saying anything,
(31:40):
could tell they're not reallyfeeling very comfortable right
now.
Maybe someone would be quiteaggressive a counter or
aggressive, but really it camedown to that something wasn't
being accommodated for them.
Either they didn't understandsomething, something was
bothering them, they were scared, they were uncomfortable.
(32:00):
But you could sit.
I felt like I could sense it,and it always allowed me these
opportunities to sit and talkwith a patient, listen to a
patient and find a way to makethem feel more comfortable, and
then, having that diagnosis, Iwent.
This makes so much more sense.
I am just picking up on thingsdifferently.
(32:25):
I read the room differently toother people.
I read the room differently toother people.
I'm noticing things differentlyto other people, and it's not a
bad thing, it's not anything inthat way, but it's just allowed
me to connect with patientsdifferently and it's made me
(32:46):
think of problems from adifferent point of view, um, and
I think it's really helped inmy career because I've been able
to connect with a lot of reallyreally um, generally what
people call difficult patients,but they're not difficult
they're just not.
(33:06):
People haven't realized that'swhat has been making them feel
uncomfortable about coming tothe dentist just need to be
understood yeah, and I thinkthat is what has made me so feel
so passionate about making sureI stay in dentistry like I have
(33:26):
struggled with chronic pain,I've struggled with burnout, but
I always want to come back.
I never.
I think there was a point earlyin my career where I ended up
in two hand braces because I hadreally severe tendinitis and
I'm still dragging myself intowork and I would take the hand
(33:47):
braces off.
I had really severe tendinitisand I'm still dragging myself
into work to take it and I wouldtake the hand braces off and go
nothing is here and everyone'slike.
You need to rest.
And that's probably one of thehardest parts is I'm not the
best at listening to my body andI've realized now with this
diagnosis, that that's the partthat I struggle with.
Um, is um just actuallylistening to what my body needs?
(34:13):
Um, but the rest is like oh.
That's why my brain is neverquiet.
That's why there's always aspider web of thoughts going
what, what's happening with this?
What's, what's my next plan forthat?
Are they thinking of 10 milliondifferent things at once?
Kate Coomber (34:31):
it finally just makes sense that my whole life
was, was just a lot of noise inmy brain sounds like a lot of
clarity came from that for youto really understand and also
where you need to be and whatyou need to be doing to get the
best for you.
Do you see that there'sopportunities, or what
(34:53):
opportunities do you see tobetter support neurodiversity?
Ellen Rogers (34:55):
in dentistry.
There's so many opportunities.
I personally think there'sactually a lot of dental
professionals who areneurodivergent in some way,
whether that be autism, adhdcombination or other types of
neurodivergent.
I feel like dentistry itselflends itself to autism and ADHD
(35:22):
as a career, because it both hasthis lovely routine to it but
this great new and differentthings every day.
So I do my systematic thinking,but I never know what's going
to come through the door.
Friday afternoon three o'clockI've got a facial trauma, but
let's follow the trauma guideand we'll split their teeth and
(35:44):
thankfully they were okay.
That was last.
Kate Coomber (35:47):
Friday.
That was until 7.
Ellen Rogers (35:49):
But it's also important then, from an
employer's perspective, to makesure they're looking at work
accommodations likepresentations, learning
environments, meetingenvironments Like.
Are we looking at learning andmeetings in an accessible way?
Are we providing information inaccessible ways?
(36:11):
Are we allowing people to workin ways that are beneficial for
everyone?
Are the work environmentsaccessible?
The industry has some prettyhorrible environments.
It's a big bear Like.
They have these bright overheadlights and these noisy, noisy
(36:35):
drills, and that then leads intowanting to look after the
patients.
They're sitting there in themost vulnerable position,
running back now, running lightsin their eyes.
Are we making sure we've gotsome dark glasses?
Are we offering them somethingfor their ears or reminding them
(36:56):
they can bring something forthemselves, something to keep
them comfortable?
And then you know just as simpleas looking to your own website
and going are we using our ownpictures?
Have we got photos of the team?
Have we got um photos of theclinic or a virtual tour so that
(37:18):
people can jump on before theycome in and get familiar with
the environment, and if we'vegot a map of where to park, how
to find a front door, maybe aletter that goes out to patients
that says what we expect onyour first visit, or little
social stories that sort ofexplain what happens for a plane
, and just little things likethat that can really make
(37:43):
someone's experience with comingto visit you a little bit less
daunting because they havesomething in their mind already,
whereas if you've got thisreally generic website, it
doesn't show any photos, itdoesn't show what you look like
or how to find you.
Um, someone who isneurodivergent probably isn't
(38:04):
going to want to come therebecause it's too unknown and
it's too daunting and they'lljust find somewhere different or
they'll avoid it altogether.
Sam Miklos (38:12):
Sounds like there's.
I was just going to say,because even in Geraldton, am I
right, that you have alsocreated like a five-page
induction program as well tomake it easier for locums or
anyone as such coming to theservice?
Kate Coomber (38:27):
so small adjustments, by the sounds of it
, that have such huge impact onother people.
Ellen Rogers (38:31):
Yeah, I found it.
Um, I couldn't find the clinicon the first day.
Yeah, I didn't know where itwas, um, and so I was like, well
, if I don't know where it was,how will I, how will other
locums know where it is?
And so I walked around and Itook some photos and made some
like Google Maps screenshots andlinks and just wrote a little
(38:54):
blurb and then said, am Iallowed to send this out when we
have a new staff member coming?
And they were like you madethis.
And I was like, oh, it's just alittle something.
But they were like, yes, pleasesend that out.
That's amazing, ellen.
Yeah, all of our clinics are onschool properties so they're
really hard to find.
(39:14):
They're not like you can'twrite into Google the address
because it just puts up theschool Right.
And trying to find the therapycentres is a little bit
confusing if you're new to townand you also don't know the
schools or the area.
Sam Miklos (39:31):
So, yeah, I thought that would just be a bit more
helpful.
That's amazing, ellen.
Your experience is so uniqueand special.
Actually, you are so unique andspecial.
Like just talking to you hasjust been amazing.
If a working healthcareprofessional is listening to
this podcast now and going, oh,do I do this?
(39:52):
Do I take a sea change or atree change, what would you say
to them?
Let's say, do it like just getin there.
Ellen Rogers (40:01):
Yeah, you don't know.
You don't know what tomorrowholds Like.
None of us know where we willbe.
We don't know how long we have.
If you're thinking of doing it,if you want something different
, if you're wanting to travel,just do it.
You can't sit around sayingI'll do it when my kids graduate
(40:25):
, I'll do it.
Kate Coomber (40:25):
There's never a good time is there.
Ellen Rogers (40:27):
Because we're not guaranteed that time.
Yeah, we honestly don't knowhow long we have, and that was a
really big factor in usdeciding to just go and do
something different.
Kate Coomber (40:43):
Yeah, look, we thank you so much for being so
open, so candid and reallysharing your story.
We're going to shine a light ona charity close to your heart
today as well, and CMR aredonating $500 to that charity.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what charity you've chosen
and why?
Ellen Rogers (41:03):
Yeah, I've chosen the ADA Dental Health Foundation
.
They seek to improve the dentalhealth of Australians,
especially ones who can't afforddental care.
They work with pro bono dentaltreatment plans, with dental
volunteers, through registeredcharities and not-for-profit
(41:27):
agencies.
So one of their programs inparticular is called the
Rebuilding Smiles Program, whichrebuilds smiles for patients
affected by family and domesticviolence.
They fund these programs andencourage the better oral health
outcomes to reduce inequalityacross Australia, as well as
(41:54):
looking at programs to improveeducation within the community.
So they do community servicegrants, first Nations study
grants and oral health educationprograms.
That's amazing, fabulousfabulous.
Kate Coomber (42:06):
Yeah, thank you.
It's so nice to really hearabout these organizations and
charities that people may nothave come across before, and to
not only donate the money butreally to highlight them and to
to share people, to to reallyraise that awareness.
We thank you so much forsharing.
Look, it's been so nice to talkto you and I think that that
your story really is going to bean inspiration for others.
(42:28):
I think there'll certainly beother people listening who may
not be as open with themselvesor others as you have been, and
I think we really thank you forthat, because I think the impact
you can have more broadlyacross dentistry and the
healthcare community, I think ishuge.
So thank you so much foreverything you've shared with us
(42:48):
today.
Ellen Rogers (42:50):
Thank you so much for having me.
Sam Miklos (42:52):
It's been a pleasure .
Thanks, Ellen.
Thanks for listening.
Don't forget to share, rate andreview.
This allows us to reach morepeople and share more incredible
stories.
Click the follow or subscribebutton to ensure you never miss
an episode.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com