March 18, 2025 • 55 mins
Content warning: This episode discusses suicide and may be distressing for some listeners. If you feel you could be triggered by this content, you may want to skip this episode.
Dr. Karyn Matterson’s path to medicine was anything but typical. Building a career first in tourism, a devastating personal tragedy shifted her purpose entirely, leading her to study clinical dietetics before ultimately pursuing medicine. Determined to create security for her family while making a real impact, Karyn joined the Australian Defence Force, balancing medical studies with family life. Her journey was far from easy, and in this episode, Karyn shares the challenges she overcame and the lessons that shaped her along the way.
Eleven years as an Air Force doctor honed Karyn’s adaptability and teamwork skills, preparing her for the complexities of rural healthcare. Now the Director of Medical Services at Blackall Hospital in outback Queensland, Karyn is a passionate advocate for rural general practice and the vital role of locum doctors in remote communities. Throughout her career, Karyn has also taken an active role in many professional committees, contributing to the development of rural healthcare policies and workforce solutions. She gives an inside look at life in outback Queensland - what it’s like to live and work there and the unique challenges facing rural healthcare.
Karyn’s story is a powerful reminder that purpose often emerges from life’s toughest moments. Whether you're a doctor considering locum work, curious about rural healthcare, or simply love stories of resilience, this episode is one you won’t want to miss.
It Takes Heart is hosted by cmr CEO Sam Miklos, alongside Head of Talent and Employer Branding, Kate Coomber.
We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso
More about Karyn's Organisation of Choice, Remote Australian's Matter.
Remote Australians Matter is a community-driven organisation that empowers and encourages remote Australians to join and participate in the design and development of solutions that are fit for their community and their residents.
Connect with Karyn on LinkedIn.
Get to know cmr better!
Follow @ittakesheartpodcast on Instagram, @cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment on Linked In, @cornerstonemedicalrec on TikTok and @CornerstoneMedicalRecruitment on Facebook.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kate Coomber (00:00):
Welcome to it Takes Heart.
I'm.
Sam Miklos (00:01):
Kate and I'm Sam, and we can't wait to share more
incredible stories of healthcareprofessionals making an impact
across Australia.
Karyn Matterson (00:08):
The only way I could get to go and do medicine
after I got through the GAMSATand all those of it was to join
the Defence Force.
So I was a doctor in the AirForce for 11 years.
Becoming a doctor would meansecurity for me and my family.
As far as my profession, itwould enable me to do something,
(00:30):
to try and make a differencesomewhere.
Kate Coomber (00:39):
We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the
land of which we meet who, forcenturies, have shared ancient
methods of healing and cared fortheir communities.
We pay our respects to elders,past and present.
Sam Miklos (00:55):
So today we're here with Dr Karen Madison, who has
come almost a thousandkilometres from Blackall
Hospital in Outback Queensland.
Karen is a specialist GP andrural generalist with a passion
for primary healthcare for everyAustralian everywhere.
What Kate and I foundparticularly fascinating about
Karen is that healthcare wasn'ther first career choice.
(01:15):
She had a successful career inevents and tourism before a
life-changing event brought adifferent perspective and guided
her toward a career withpurpose in healthcare.
She's currently the Director ofMedical Services for Blackall
Hospital and has always taken anactive role in various
professional committees, such asthe Queensland Faculty of the
RACGP or the Council for GP atAMA Queensland.
(01:37):
She previously held the role ofPresident of GP Registrars
Australia as well.
A fun fact about Karen is thatshe's great friends with Sonia
Henry, who you may remember fromseason one of the podcast.
Karen, thank you so much forjoining us and welcome to.
It Takes Heart.
Karyn Matterson (01:53):
Thanks Sam.
Thanks Kate, nice to be here,yeah.
Sam Miklos (01:56):
I want to start first with Sonia.
Karyn Matterson (01:57):
Okay.
Sam Miklos (01:59):
Everyone does.
We loved the book and obviously, the book was the inspiration
for the podcast, just tellingthese great stories of all of
these amazing healthcareprofessionals in our country.
Were you one of the charactersin the book?
Karyn Matterson (02:10):
Look, I cannot confirm and I don't know,
because Sonia was very, verycareful about keeping every
identity a secret, and there'slots of fiction in there, as
well Is there as well.
Sam Miklos (02:22):
You've got to tell a good story.
That's always my motto.
Don't let the truth get in theway of, and there's lots of
fiction in there as well, isthere as well.
You've got to tell a good,never hold back a bit.
There's a good story there aswell.
That's always my motto Don'tlet the truth get in the way of
a good story.
Karyn Matterson (02:31):
How did you meet Sonia?
We met at medical school.
We actually did our ruralclinical school placement
together up in a little towncalled Lithgow, which is an hour
and a half out of theSutherland Shire, where I grew
up.
Oh, did you yeah yeah, in NewSouth Wales and Sonny and I and
(02:51):
two other of our fellow studentsfour of us were up there for
about 10 weeks in placement.
We had an amazing time, whichinvolved going down a mine shaft
one day Working, or just as asocial.
Kate Coomber (03:07):
No, no, no, not for fun.
Karyn Matterson (03:13):
We were actually quite terrified at
times.
It was pitch black, dark andwet.
We got dressed up in our fluorooveralls, got in this little
tram and we went like down, down, down down I would be and it
was but it was amazing seeingall of the um, the, the life and
(03:37):
the work that goes onunderground, because Lithgow is
um a coal mining area and asteel production area, and for
us to go down there and then wespent time with the occupational
physician that worked with themines, so the medicine context
(03:57):
was then, you know, overlaid inthat particular experience.
It was incredible.
But then we had bingo at theLithgow RSL too, which was
amazing Down in the mountains.
Yeah, so we've been greatfriends since then.
And Sonia's actually come outto Blackall on a locum stint for
(04:19):
me as well, so she knows thearea out there.
Kate Coomber (04:26):
Now, what we found really fascinating when we were
speaking is that and as Sammentioned, you had a career
before medicine.
Talk us through it.
I think there's a bit of a.
Probably people assume thatpeople go through primary school
saying I'm going to be a doctor, and then everything they do is
leading to that straight fromschool, not to mention the years
(04:49):
to to become a doctor so yeah,to have other careers like yeah,
how did it happen for you?
Sam Miklos (04:54):
where do you want to be when you left school?
Karyn Matterson (04:56):
well, that's a really good question.
I sort of took a lot of detourson the way.
I remember being a kid andwanting to be involved in
advocacy of some sort and itstarted out in grade five, I
think it was and wrote a letterto the Prime Minister about save
(05:22):
the baby seals letter to thePrime Minister about save the
baby seals.
And I remember that picturewith their big black, doughy
eyes looking out at me on theice and on the snow, and I
thought, oh, I've got to write,I've got to do something here.
I've really got to, you know,have a say and do something.
And so I wrote a letter andthat sort of you know.
I got a response which wasfantastic and then sort of went
(05:45):
from there.
And then in year seven a fellowstudent of mine got run over by
a bus in front of the schooland I thought this isn't right,
we've got to do something aboutthis.
And I wrote a letter to thelocal newspaper advocating for a
bus bay to be put in, and a busbay was put in, for a bus bay
(06:08):
to be put in, and a bus bay wasput in.
And so I got this passion fordoing stuff and getting involved
and, you know, making adifference wherever I could, and
sort of went on from there.
I was in youth groups and allsorts of things.
And then my family moved downto Tasmania and then my family
moved down to Tasmania and itwas all different for me.
They had a different schoolingsystem.
(06:29):
I was in year 10 at the time.
You know had the typical year10 distractions that you do,
don't know what you mean.
Kate Coomber (06:36):
Yeah.
Karyn Matterson (06:41):
And so I decided to leave school at 16.
And then I left school and Iwalked up to my first employer
and knocked on the door and said, can I have a job please?
And I started as a junioraccounts clerk and I remember I
was earning $120 a week.
Sam Miklos (06:54):
Did you get it in a little packet?
Yes, remember that.
Yeah.
Karyn Matterson (06:59):
And he used to take the mail out and they used
to look after balancing thepetty cash and all of that type
of thing mail out and they usedto look after the you know,
balancing the petty cash and youknow all of that type of thing.
And then the company shut downin Tasmania and we had a choice
we could go anywhere inAustralia or we could take a
redundancy package.
Now at 16, almost 17,.
I thought, bugger it.
(07:20):
I'm going to go travel, and soI got posted to Ayers Rock.
I'm going to go travel, and soI got posted to Ayers Rock, and
I lived in Ayers Rock as a frontoffice person at Yallara there
for six months Wow.
Kate Coomber (07:36):
And you went on your own.
I was on my own, or was there afew people being posted?
Karyn Matterson (07:39):
People got posted anywhere and everywhere.
Sam Miklos (07:42):
How did?
You find that Because I wasthere this year and I'm
visualising, I'm like 16, 17.
Karyn Matterson (07:48):
Yeah, I was 16 and I was frightened.
I've still got friends fromEd's Rock and there was one
particular lady that took meunder her wing and looked after
me which was fantastic because Iwas so young Climbed the rock,
had family come and visit youknow, did a little bit of a
(08:09):
fashion parade when the fashioncame out like, got involved in
the community and you know I metmany, many people.
But then went back to Sydneyand stayed in tourism at the
time and that was my firstcareer tourism and particularly
inbound tourism.
And again, I still know peoplefrom my first career tourism and
in particularly inbound tourism.
And again I still know peoplefrom my inbound tourism days and
(08:30):
my role was developing programsfor executives that won trips
to come to Australia that theycouldn't they couldn't buy the
program off the shelf, that in abrochure.
We had to do it from go to go,start to finish and it was a
life full of fun and laughterand parties and dress-ups and
(08:51):
lots of fireworks we extendedthe Hamilton.
Island runway to get a Germanaircraft, a DC-10, in there.
So it was stuff that we weredoing to make it a fantastic
experience for everyone.
And that's when I met myhusband, matthew, when I was
(09:13):
doing an all-nighter trying toget 150 Americans out to
Australia and win a job which wewon, by the way.
But I met him because he was asecurity guard at the time and
he brought me back breakfast andwe fell in love and got married
and had our first child andmoved up to Port Douglas in far
(09:33):
north Queensland where I wasrunning Village Carnivale.
And unfortunately, that's thetime where tragedy sort of
struck in my life and Matthewsuicided of struck in my life
and Matthew suicided and Elise,my daughter.
She was just before she was oneyears of age.
It was the day before her firstbirthday party.
(09:54):
Oh my goodness.
And her birthday fell a coupleof days before.
So that, needless to say, waslife changing, but not just for
me.
It was bad for me but it'sworse for it's been worse for
children of people that suicide,you know, not to have an
(10:16):
opportunity to meet their parentand family and friends and
colleagues.
I call it the ripple effect.
That ripple effect justpermeates through people when
someone suicides and it takes alot for someone to get through
that really intense time whenthere's funerals and sadness and
(10:40):
all that grief.
Did you have family around?
Well, my family were all inSydney.
Sydney yeah, and I was.
As I say, I was up thererunning this event and then I
got a job in a marketing,tourism, marketing company and I
remember being up in the officeand getting a message to call a
(11:02):
police officer and this policeofficer delivered the news to me
over the phone and it was justso traumatic.
People came running fromeverywhere, not knowing what had
gone on, because you know, Ijust, you know screamed.
You just don't know how it'sgoing to affect you at the time.
Sam Miklos (11:21):
How do you?
You said about like, how didyou get through that moment,
like with a one year old, to getthrough those years?
Karyn Matterson (11:29):
Yeah.
So my mum and dad were on aplane immediately, and I
remember that night just mum anddad, you know, hugging me
because I was just insoluble.
Um, yeah.
So there comes a time whenthere's quiet, though, and that
(11:49):
quiet usually happens after thefuneral's done and everyone goes
home and goes back to theirlife and life goes on right.
And in that quiet moment Ithought again I've got to do
something.
And I remember lying on FourMile Beach when everyone had
gone home and everything wasquiet and I felt the warmth of
(12:13):
the sand and I had it in myhands and I thought I've got to
relearn again.
I have to do something.
I have to do something morethan fun and frivolity and
parties and you know and nodenigration whatsoever to that
industry, because I love it, butfor me I had to do something,
(12:34):
and so I went back and Irelearned.
I felt like I needed to relearnagain and I went back and I did
my HSC.
I hadn't done my H HSC with aone-year-old and I went back and
did that, and then I got myselfinto Sydney Uni to study
psychology and that lasted abouttwo minutes.
Kate Coomber (12:54):
I can imagine going into psychology too.
I mean coming out of what youjust have that in itself would
be challenging subjects I hatedthe biostatistics.
Karyn Matterson (13:04):
It was just like no, I can't do this.
And you know I still do it inmy role now.
But you know, anyway at thattime I just didn't do it and I
went back to tourism for alittle bit and then I decided to
try again and I got myself intoclinical dietetics and I spent
(13:25):
the next four years studyingnutrition and dietetics at the
University of Wollongong andgraduated with class one honours
.
Well done, thank you.
How old was Elise by this stage?
Kate Coomber (13:37):
Oh gosh, she was eight Incredible yeah, just
amazing.
Karyn Matterson (13:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was still in primary
school and I'd had another childby then, because I'd been
married again with my secondhusband so, yeah, travis was
very young as well, so he wasonly five and yeah, then started
my own business working as aclinical dietitian.
(14:02):
so that's how I sort of got intohealth care, because I felt
like I needed to do somethingthat was going to help more
people.
And clinical dietetics is I'mjust going to be a little bit
biased here, but I think it'svery underrated and hasn't been
supported in the past for manyAustralians to get access to
(14:27):
good clinical, evidence-baseddata about clinical nutrition
and dietetics.
So I'm really, you know, I dotake that opportunity to use it
wherever I can within my role asa doctor.
So then, yeah, I had my ownbusiness as a dietitian.
(14:50):
I implanted myself in GPsurgeries around New South Wales
.
I did virtually I did a lot ofaged care work for nursing homes
in the Shire.
That was a big area of interest, and so was weight management
and obesity, and I actually hadthe opportunity to not only be
(15:11):
the national convener for theRehabilitation and Aged Care
Group for DAA DietitiansAssociation, but also had the
opportunity to speak to theHouse of Representatives in the
obesity inquiry in 2000.
I think it was 2006, 2008.
Sam Miklos (15:26):
Yeah, incredible opportunity, yeah, but.
Karyn Matterson (15:28):
I couldn't get medicine out of my head.
Sam Miklos (15:30):
I was just going to say, was medicine coming up
through when you'd been in thoseprivate practices?
Kate Coomber (15:36):
Yeah, Did it sort of evolve, because you could see
the knock-on effect and youcould see the links.
Karyn Matterson (15:41):
Yeah, I could see the links, because I could
deliver all of this informationto my patients, which they found
really, really useful.
But if I didn't have the GP onboard, then then there was no
incentive for the GP to beinvolved.
It was very difficult todeliver a holistic therapy, so
(16:02):
to speak, to the patient.
So I just thought, no, I needto be the one writing the care
plan.
Yeah, I need to beorchestrating it and
understanding how it works.
I need to get that.
I need to be there and I needto do more.
I just need to do more.
Kate Coomber (16:20):
And so was GP always on the radar or when you
went into medicine.
So going to medical school,then was that a very clear
vision that I want to be ageneral practitioner, or was it
a bit open at that stage?
Karyn Matterson (16:32):
It was open and it's really interesting that
you bring up that point becausethrough medical school and
pre-vocational training, many,many people might have a special
interest but they still haven'tdecided.
I was interested in emergencymedicine, but the only way I
(16:52):
could get to go and do medicineafter I got through the GAMSAT
and all the rest of it was tojoin the Defence Force.
So I was a doctor in the AirForce for 11 years and the
reason being was I was sponsoredthrough medical school because
I had a family.
Kate Coomber (17:10):
I had a mortgage.
Karyn Matterson (17:11):
I had everything.
It was the only way I could doit.
And did someone plant that ideato you?
I'm like how did you do medical?
Sam Miklos (17:13):
school because I had a family, I had a mortgage, I
had everything.
It was the only way I could doit.
And did someone plant that ideato you?
I'm like, how did you domedical?
Karyn Matterson (17:16):
school.
Sam Miklos (17:17):
So I wasn't aware of that, yeah.
Kate Coomber (17:20):
Did someone just recommend that to you, or was it
just through research that yousaw that as an option?
Through research?
Karyn Matterson (17:25):
Yeah, through research, and then obviously,
when you come along, you've gota decent score and all the rest
of it and you're a Commonwealthsupported place, defence goes.
Thanks very much, yep we'lltake you.
And yeah.
So I then, after my internshipand residency, went on base.
Sam Miklos (17:48):
And for 11 years was it, did you say?
Karyn Matterson (17:50):
So 11 years in total, and for 11 years did you
say so, 11 years in total.
So my medical training.
Throughout training I wassupported by defence, paid a
salary so I was able to maintaina family.
Sam Miklos (18:02):
I was on my third husband by then.
Karyn Matterson (18:04):
by that stage, who was my high school
sweetheart?
Sam Miklos (18:08):
by the way from Tasmania.
Kate Coomber (18:10):
From Tasmania.
Sam Miklos (18:11):
Yes, what a full circle moment.
Kate Coomber (18:13):
Is he your current husband?
Sam Miklos (18:14):
Yes, he is, I was just going to say you're going
to know, he's it Wow.
Kate Coomber (18:19):
Yeah, and did you have you need to talk to Sonia
because you could write a booktoo?
You really could write a book.
Yeah, we haven't even gotstarted yet.
Sorry, I apologise.
I like it.
There's so many questions.
Sam Miklos (18:30):
So many things.
Can I ask when you said youlived on base with the family?
Karyn Matterson (18:34):
No.
Sam Miklos (18:35):
So you were flying home Like what was the frequency
?
Karyn Matterson (18:38):
So through medical school I was with the
family and through internshipand residency, and I did my
internship and residency at StGeorge Hospital in New South
Wales.
I then was posted toWilliamtown, up in Newcastle and
I lived off on base but awayfrom home.
(19:02):
So I was living away from home,my family was still in Sydney
and so I used to travel up andtravel back, Travel up travel
back Every week every month,every, not every fortnight,
basically yeah, yeah, and thekids were getting you know older
at this stage and a lot moreindependent and um, yeah, so
(19:23):
it's easier when the kids are alittle bit older.
It's really difficult whenthey're younger yeah, yes it is.
Sam Miklos (19:29):
We are in those trenches like solidly right now.
Yeah, so I did a few years atwilliamtown and then was posted
to amberley you know, um, forfor anyone listening who's
coming like how, how did you dothat there would have been so
many challenges to overcome to?
To you know, studying as amature age student, being being
(19:51):
away from home, like what werethe biggest challenges or
roadblocks that you faced, butthen how did you overcome them?
Karyn Matterson (19:57):
Okay.
So memory, yeah.
So when you get older it'sharder to study, not only
because it's justphysiologically harder to retain
that information, it's alsofamily pressures, yeah, yeah.
(20:17):
And you know, I'd go home andbe trying to study and I'd have
Trav my son at the door.
Mum, can I have this?
Yes, can I do this?
What are you doing?
Kate Coomber (20:29):
Yes, yes, yes.
What are you doing now, Mum?
Karyn Matterson (20:31):
And then, in contrast, I'd have my daughter
come up and she'd give me a nicemassage.
I'm like, oh stop.
But yeah, lots of distractions.
You overcome it by sheerdetermination, Sam.
Sam Miklos (20:47):
You're so focused on that, yeah.
Karyn Matterson (20:49):
Yeah, and it's like this, is this Like?
Becoming a doctor would meansecurity for me and my family,
as far as my profession, for therest of our lives.
It would enable me to dosomething, to try and make a
difference somewhere, withsomeone or a community or a
(21:14):
system, and it would you knowjust you know, have me busy, I
guess.
Kate Coomber (21:24):
You can see how purpose-driven you are and how
much it obviously just fillsyour cup to be doing the right
thing for people.
Sam Miklos (21:33):
Yeah, I try and to be helping and that's obviously
innate, since you were littleyeah.
When you left then Defence.
What's the journey been fromthere to now?
To now and where did the lovefor rural health come in and
Black Hole yeah.
Karyn Matterson (21:52):
So when I left the Defence Force I was like a
kid in a candy shop.
I traversed the country fromDarwin down to Tasmania out to
Palm Island, Just locuming,Locuming.
Sam Miklos (22:07):
For a couple of years.
Kate Coomber (22:09):
And on your own or taking family with you.
Or a bit of a mix, bit of a mix.
Karyn Matterson (22:12):
Yeah, a bit of years, yeah, and on your own or
taking family with you, or a bitof a mix.
Bit of a mix, yeah, yeah, a bitof a mix.
So a lot of the local places.
Simon would, my husband wouldum come with me and what?
Does simon do, uh he, he worksum in the banking industry.
Sam Miklos (22:24):
He's completely not involved in medicine yeah, he
can't come along and work inthose areas, because some of our
some of our guests have beenlike taking their husbands along
and they in those areas.
No, because some of our guestshave been like taking their
husbands along and they'll dosome handiwork around the
hospital, or yeah, and he justcomes along.
Karyn Matterson (22:38):
Yeah Well, simon's got this incredible
knack of just being there aswell for people whenever they
need it, so like even in ourhouse up in Blackhall, there's
little things that might needdoing, like the water tank might
have a valve that needs turning, or the gas needs replacing or
(23:02):
something, and usually thedoctor would say to the
maintenance people or thebusiness manager can you do this
, but Simon just gets out anddoes it, gets it done.
Yeah, can you do this, but Simonjust gets out and does it, gets
it done, yeah and I mean thefeedback that he has is that it
takes a huge pressure off forsomeone to actually just be
there.
But yeah, he does really wellin communities, fairly quiet
(23:26):
type of man, but he does well tomake friends.
Sam Miklos (23:32):
So you locumumed all around, all around, yeah, all
around Australia.
What were some of yourfavourite?
Karyn Matterson (23:36):
places I loved Cap Coast, so up in Yipoon there
that was pretty great.
I was there for that's whereI'm from.
Oh, really, you grew up thereNice area?
Kate Coomber (23:48):
Yeah, really nice area.
Karyn Matterson (23:50):
Wangaratta was pretty good too down in Victoria
.
Sam Miklos (23:53):
We've always faced a lot of candidates down in
Wangaratta.
They've always loved it.
Karyn Matterson (23:56):
Yeah, the hospital there.
I basically just looked afterfast track there in emergency
and it was fantastic because theGPs are very, very good at
dealing with those cat four andfives that come into.
Oh, we're good with dealingwith emergencies too, because
(24:18):
that's what we do.
But to be able to turn peopleover and see them and see them
in the time that we are used toseeing patients is really useful
for some of those countryhospitals and a lot of the
presentations I've got to say.
You know, gps know what they'relooking at, whereas you know
(24:45):
non-GP specialists sometimes arejust not.
They know it, but it's not acommon thing that they see.
So they don't recognise it maybeas quickly like some sort of
rash.
Sam Miklos (25:02):
Yeah Something like that.
Karyn Matterson (25:03):
So I mean that's a good example of rash
you know, yeah, yeah.
Sam Miklos (25:09):
What do you love about?
Because obviously, when youwere locuming around and going
to these rural and regionallocations, what do you love most
about those roles versus maybesettling in one of the?
Karyn Matterson (25:20):
metropolitan areas to experience Australia
from a different perspective.
Different areas offer differentthings, different landscapes,
(25:41):
different feels, differentpeople and people, I think, in
rural and remote areas haveunique stories, just as people
do in metro, but people live inmetro and don't talk to each
other in communities forever,whereas it's a little bit
(26:05):
different in remote and ruralplaces.
People tend to talk and askquestions.
Kate Coomber (26:12):
Yeah, it's come up a little bit, hasn't it, that
some of the city health careprofessionals that we have are
actually the loneliest they'veever felt and they're in these
metro areas with everything attheir disposal, with people
everywhere, yet lonely, yeah,and they go out to to more rural
communities and there's thatreal fiction yeah, there's,
people do things together it's.
Karyn Matterson (26:33):
It's funny because, uh, that parrot, the
paradox of being the furthestaway and being, you know, just
so isolated, are some of thetimes when I felt the closest,
yeah, to people.
You know so, um, that fabricand that mesh work is, and and
(26:55):
when I say people, I'm talkingabout other professionals that
are in the area nursing staff orallied health staff and you
know that teamwork and I guessthat's defense really built that
teamwork ethos and so diddietetics that teamwork ethos.
You've got toetics thatteamwork ethos.
You've got to collaborate withother people.
You've got to collaborate andyou've got to talk to people and
(27:17):
you've got to problem solve andyou know, sometimes you are
there by yourself and you'rejust it, you know, and that's
pretty scary, but in Metro yousort of and especially this is
so difficult for a lot of ouryoung early career doctors going
(27:40):
into specialist generalpractice training.
They feel so alone in theirroom and it's quite isolating.
Kate Coomber (27:49):
Because they're a general practitioner in a clinic
room.
Sam Miklos (27:52):
Yeah rather than in a ward with other people and
other beds.
Kate Coomber (27:58):
How do we?
Karyn Matterson (27:59):
help that.
I think peer learning is reallyimportant and networks are
really important.
It's a big role for ourcolleges and our associations to
play in that, having not onlyprofessional mentorship but also
(28:21):
that peer near peer.
Especially if you're going outinto these locations too and
then feeling that lack ofconnection, or yeah yeah would
be so important that's right, um, and certainly moving from
pre-vocational training intospecialist general practice or
(28:44):
rural generalism.
There's so much more we can doin order to, you know, put some
guardrails or some supports inplace to not only help
pre-vocational doctors choose GP, specialist GP and rural
generalist training, but also tokeep them in it.
Sam Miklos (29:07):
What would you say those?
Karyn Matterson (29:08):
guardrails are.
What would you say thoseguardrails are?
Well, there's the planks ofbeing recognised as an equitable
specialty training program withother specialty training
programs.
Currently GP registrars.
Take, you know, in metro areas,take a huge pay cut to come
(29:31):
into training metro areas take ahuge pay cut to come into
training.
Kate Coomber (29:42):
So just some support for base rate parity and
support You've got to seek itas an equal career right.
You've got to seek it, theyshould be, rewarded in the same
way.
Sam Miklos (29:47):
Second class career, poor cousin yeah, I was just
going to say the poor relativeof every other specialty.
Karyn Matterson (29:52):
Yeah, because it's not easy.
Generalism is again.
I'm going to go out on a limband I don't mean to offend any
of my non-GP specialistcolleagues here, but
generalism's hard, it's bloodyhard.
Sam Miklos (30:04):
That's come through a lot yeah.
Karyn Matterson (30:07):
It's not just one system, it's all systems and
you know that seeking ofinformation and that surgical
sieve, the sifting and thesorting, and which way do you go
, which alleyway do you go downto try and help this patient.
It's really challenging andit's a profession and you can't
(30:28):
learn that profession in aone-hour webinar.
Kate Coomber (30:30):
And even the personal skills, I imagine, that
are required by a GP maybe notin others to ask the right
questions, to get the rightinformation of people who maybe
aren't forthcoming.
Karyn Matterson (30:39):
Yeah, Very different.
Yeah, it is very different.
Sorry, Sam, I forgot yourquestion.
Sam Miklos (30:47):
No, I felt like you answered it.
Oh, I didn't know theguardrails.
Kate Coomber (30:50):
I was like what are the guardrails?
Sam Miklos (30:51):
I was thinking like is there anything else?
That might hold them back.
Karyn Matterson (30:55):
Yeah, so there's those, the systemic
guardrails, as in, you know, thesalary supports and the leave
supports.
Like GP, registrars need studyleave and exam leave, just like
hospital non-GP registrars needit.
So supports around that parentalleave, paid parental leave for
(31:19):
them as well.
So that's, they're reallyimportant systemic changes that
need to be enacted without thedetriment of anyone in other
areas.
It's just got to be a littlebit of an uplift there, from a
collegiate perspective again,those peer hubs and the supports
(31:43):
and the knowing where to go andpotentially value, matching a
supervisor with a registrar andyou know, and ensuring that they
know that there's support outthere through not only their
(32:06):
employers but also with thefantastic organisations like
Doctors for Doctors or the RuralDoctors Foundation.
You know, all of those supportsthat are out there just trying
to link that informationtogether.
That's such a piece I was justthinking when you were talking
(32:26):
about the support piece when Igraduated as an occupational
therapist.
Sam Miklos (32:28):
I went up to Toowoomba Hospital and all the
seniors were pregnant and theyall kind of disappeared and
there was four of us that weregraduates at the time and just
that feeling of I don't know whoour people are, who's there to
support us, that it was such anunsettling time and it was so
much pressure on the one personbut not being able to link up.
(32:49):
We kind of created our ownlittle support network and tried
to seek out other graduates andother health services around us
to get us through that and youkind of underestimate that
You've come out and you're soexcited to go.
Karyn Matterson (33:01):
But it can really detract you as well, Yep.
And then you go oh no, I'mready to go, I'm ready to go.
Sam Miklos (33:07):
I remember an orthopedic surgeon coming to me
and saying can you make a handsplint?
Kate Coomber (33:10):
I don't know where to turn it on, but go on.
Sam Miklos (33:12):
There's no hand therapist there.
I went, oh.
Kate Coomber (33:14):
I'm a crack, you could have manual.
He's like no, you do, I waslike oh, I'm out, I'm going to
London, literally, yeah, so itsounds like support.
Is that overarching in variousdifferent mechanisms of what
they need?
I I guess if you were standingin a room of those junior
doctors and you were standingthere talking to them about how
(33:37):
rural generalism can be as acareer or GP, what do you say to
them to really not to sell tothem?
But, what do you inspire them?
Karyn Matterson (33:46):
Yeah, Well, there's again lots of different
areas, because everyone isdifferent as far as what floats
their boat.
Kate Coomber (33:58):
And their why Everyone's got a different, why
yeah?
Karyn Matterson (34:01):
So I talk about how good the medicine is, how
wide the medicine is as far asscope, and there's a time when
you have to take deep dives intothat medicine when you've got
(34:23):
something happening.
Kate Coomber (34:24):
Yeah.
Karyn Matterson (34:26):
And I talk about the connection to people
and feeling like you're actuallymaking a difference to that
person.
And then I talk about doing,because in rural medicine we say
you can't be what you can't see.
So it takes a lot of peoplebeing to grow the profession, to
(35:00):
grow the profession, and youknow, I think generally
healthcare professionals are.
Kate Coomber (35:02):
You know they've got an element of altruism most.
Karyn Matterson (35:03):
Yes, yeah, it's like we're doing good for yeah,
yeah yeah, we're changingeverything.
Yeah, we're changing everythingwe're doing good for the country
we're doing good for ourneighbor, our community, and
that contribution to thecommunity is what inspires a lot
of people.
And you know it's true.
Again, we go back to startingin the bush.
(35:29):
If you grow healthcareprofessionals in the bush, if
you're growing them in thoseremote areas, if you're growing
them, you remote areas, ifyou're growing them, you know
the kids on cattle farms thatare out in outback Queensland or
anywhere in Australia thenthey're going to go back there
(35:52):
because that's their community.
And you know there's so manyyoung people that are inspired
when they go to the doctor andthey see their doctor.
They're inspired to become adoctor.
So it's really important, um tosay, as health care
professionals, as young doctors,as pre-vocational doctors and
medical students, you know, usethat feeling of your altruism
(36:17):
and use it and shine with it.
You can do, you can be.
Yeah, you can do you can be, andyou know, sometimes it takes
people a longer journey to getto where they are.
But when you're there, geez, itfeels good.
Kate Coomber (36:33):
And I'm sure you can speak from your own personal
experience.
It doesn't have to be the firstidea you've had.
No, you can get there wheneverit takes you there.
Karyn Matterson (36:42):
Yeah, I think the average careers most people
have is three careers in alifetime.
Now, isn't that right?
I'm sure it'll be more now thatlife expectancy is longer and
longer.
Sam Miklos (36:53):
Recently, I was saying we're going to live to
110.
Oh good.
Recently, I was saying we'regoing to live to 110.
Oh good, oh, that's right.
Kate Coomber (36:57):
We were at a conference going what?
Karyn Matterson (36:59):
What are we going to do?
Oh, that's good.
I want to live to 110.
Sam Miklos (37:01):
Well, there you go.
You might have the fourthcareer.
You know, there's still time.
Tell us about, then.
Blackall, oh yeah.
Kate Coomber (37:09):
Blackall Took the words out of my mouth.
Yeah, let's inspire people togo there, for example.
Sam Miklos (37:14):
Okay, you mentioned that you live on the grounds
earlier when you were talking.
What's it like, what's ahospital like?
What's being out there?
It's the experience.
Karyn Matterson (37:22):
Yeah, blackhall is.
The Blackhall Tambo region is acommunity of about 1,400, 1,500
people.
We're the only GP in town.
So Central West Queensland isan area of Queensland Health
that actually owns all thegeneral practice Because
Medicare and the funding and allthe rest of it there's been,
(37:45):
the owners of general practicehave left and it's happening all
over Australia.
We see it happening all overAustralia.
So the state has picked up allof the GP services.
We're very lucky in Blackhallbecause we've got a brand new
hospital and GP surgery.
So it's four years old.
(38:09):
And when I first arrived inBlackhall because I went on a
cook's tour of the central westwith my boss, dr David Walker,
and one of the general managersof acute care, fabulous nurse
Karen McClellan, and I did a bitof a cook's tour.
I did Blackall and Buckholdenand Longreach and they were
(38:34):
showing me all the differentareas, knowing that I'd locumed
all over the place.
But they really wanted me tosee the area.
And I went into Blackhawne andI was like this fabulous, brand
new facility just built by StHillier's, who now are broke
they're one of many after youknow what we've gone through
(38:55):
through post-COVID.
But yes, fabulous hospital,brand-new facilities and there's
only GP in town, and so I justwent.
Oh dang, what a difference Ican make.
Sam Miklos (39:11):
Yeah, everyone is going to come and see me.
Because, were you sort ofscoping around at this point to
go, where do I want to settle?
Like was this point to go?
Where do I want to settle, Likewas this after Locaming?
Where do I want to?
Karyn Matterson (39:19):
land.
Yeah, where do I want to land?
Because Locaming is great, it'sa great experience, but you're
there flying in and you're notpart of a team and you know as
much as you are made to feel.
Kate Coomber (39:33):
Welcome the mantra virtually as soon as you land
is oh, please stay, and thatmust make it really hard to
leave as well, when people justwant you there, yeah, and it's
those I mean.
Karyn Matterson (39:52):
it might be a bit much to say it's a moral
injury, but in a way I meangeneral practitioners.
If they can't do something, youknow, it does feel a little bit
difficult.
So sorry, I digress um no, no,it's wonderful relevant yeah so,
yeah, I landed in Blackall andum had a bit of a look and um
(40:12):
Barkie had a fabulous, fabulousacting DMS already in place,
waylon and you know.
So that was you know if therewas someone in place.
There's no way that you're goingto you know, want to you know,
be competition when the areaneeds so much.
Kate Coomber (40:28):
So it's like no.
Karyn Matterson (40:30):
And then Longreach.
And Longreach has got afabulous team of GP
anaesthetists and GPobstetricians and they had a
birthing centre up there and alot of local women give birth up
there and they have specialistscome out all the time.
It's like, oh, that's a bit bigfor my first.
Kate Coomber (40:48):
DMS gig.
Karyn Matterson (40:48):
Yeah, yeah, I want to, just, you know, settle
in a little bit Settle in get toknow the area.
I mean, we're a team of 30doctors out there across Central
West and, as I say, we've gotskilled GP, anaesthetists, gp,
obstetricians, gp, eds such asmyself.
(41:09):
It's so far.
You need to be able to manageeverything.
Yeah, but we can't.
We still can't manageeverything.
We've got mental healthsubspecialties, we've got people
with internal medicine, astsand paediatrics yeah.
So we've got a team of we'renot one or two doctors in
(41:32):
Blackall, permanent doctors inBlackall.
We're a team of 30 doctors thatwe can phone a friend when we
need it Across that whole regionyeah, across the whole region.
So I thought, okay, this isgreat, I'll be, you know first
DMS role, yeah.
Team there.
New facility Now where to live,yeah, and what is Simon, my
(41:59):
husband, going?
Sam Miklos (42:00):
to do as well.
Karyn Matterson (42:02):
Thank goodness we didn't have to worry about
childcare because my kids aregrown up and there was a house
on the premises named the Palace.
Sam Miklos (42:13):
On the hospital grounds.
Karyn Matterson (42:14):
Yeah, named the Palace.
It's called the palace.
Kate Coomber (42:17):
Yes, is it the palace it's actually very, very
comfortable.
Karyn Matterson (42:23):
The bugs think it's good too.
Kate Coomber (42:25):
Yeah, they've moved in the bug palace and the
geckos.
Karyn Matterson (42:29):
Got those geckos poo yeah they do.
Sam Miklos (42:31):
I knew Once you've got one they're in.
Yeah, they're in yeah.
Karyn Matterson (42:35):
So they're there, but then they help with
the bugs, right, yeah, right,and that's what we keep on
saying.
Sam Miklos (42:39):
So we've just named them.
Karyn Matterson (42:41):
Yes, I had a brown snake on my front fence a
baby brown yeah.
Sam Miklos (42:48):
Yeah.
Karyn Matterson (42:50):
Yeah, a bit like that.
So the house is great and it'sonly like 70 metres or so from
the hospital.
So the good side is that it's70 metres or so from the
hospital I was just about to say.
Kate Coomber (43:02):
Are you too accessible at times?
The bad side is how do youseparate and have those?
Karyn Matterson (43:08):
Well, actually everyone is really respectful
and you know, we've got anamazing team of nurses out there
, really some senior nurses andwe've got some enthusiastic new
grad nurses Central West runs afantastic new grad program out
there but everyone's reallyreally respectful.
(43:29):
When you're off, you're off,it's your time off, but I don't
respect myself.
I go into work all the time.
Sam Miklos (43:37):
So I think that would be hard.
I live 70 metres from thisoffice.
Yeah, I'd be in in the morning.
Kate Coomber (43:42):
Turn the lights on that makes sense now, when we
spoke the other day and you saidyou'd walked into the office.
I thought surely she must behome now.
Yeah, yeah, not far.
Karyn Matterson (43:51):
No.
So it's great, though, becauseI walk out my front door and
there is this.
Well, I walk out and there'susually kangaroos around.
You've got brown snake on thefence.
Sam Miklos (44:03):
Yeah, but that was once Sam.
Yeah, I know, I know, Moveforward, move forward.
Karyn Matterson (44:07):
Yeah.
Sam Miklos (44:08):
Kangaroos.
Karyn Matterson (44:09):
Yeah, so kangaroos out in the front yard
and I walk up further andthere's all these budgerigars
and natural bird life.
The previous Director ofMedical Services, Dr Kieran
LaPlastia, who's down in theGold Coast now, he and someone
else, I think.
Anyway, they did an amazing jobof designing a native garden, a
(44:33):
native Australian plants garden, and we've got all these.
It attracts all these beautifulbirds in the morning.
Kate Coomber (44:40):
It's a noisy wake up every morning.
Karyn Matterson (44:41):
It's gorgeous.
Kate Coomber (44:42):
Beautiful natural alarm.
Karyn Matterson (44:43):
Beautiful yeah.
That, and then the cows mooingout one side and the kangaroos
hopping on the other side, and Iwalk, walk, walk down the path
and then sometimes my littleechidna mates there on my way
home, burrowing on the side aswell, and then go into work.
Kate Coomber (45:02):
It sounds quite vibrant because I think when
some people think outbackQueensland they would think no
sound, maybe the odd squawking,I don't know crow or something
yeah.
But, that sounds really quiet.
Karyn Matterson (45:14):
Yeah Well, Blackhall is one of the towns
that is actually well, has theArtesian Basin running
underneath, and so Blackhall,Tambo, that region has no water
restrictions.
So people have lovely gardens,lovely lawns.
That's not what you wouldexpect.
Kate Coomber (45:33):
Yeah, yeah.
What about to visit throughBlackall?
Karyn Matterson (45:37):
Yeah, it's interesting.
So it's the Blackall Tamboregion and Tambo is lots of
sheep farmers, big sheepstations out there, and it's the
home of Tambo Teddies, have youno so?
Kate Coomber (45:51):
I took our kids to Carnarvon Gorge this year in
wintertime.
We had an amazing time.
We're thinking of going backthis year, but do we keep going
on to Longreach and do that?
And Winton, yeah, we are, we'redoing that in a caravan, are
you yeah?
I didn't know that.
I know right, Good on you.
We're going all the way toWinton.
Sam Miklos (46:10):
We might just stop at you on on the way through
Easter next year we're doing twoweeks in an RV with the three
kids.
Yeah right, fabulous.
All the way out to Winton andCarnarvon.
Kate Coomber (46:20):
Gorge and Longreach.
This is it, because we only hada week and so we were just
outside of in June and went intothe gorge and things like that.
But we thought, yeah, do we golonger next time and extend it,
because the kids loved it.
Karyn Matterson (46:32):
So much to see.
Well, fair dinkum, fair dinkum.
Every Aussie needs to go outwest and see it Tambo Teddies at
Tambo.
Yeah, the Wool Scour atBlackhall, which is a fabulous
display of you know how wool wasclassed and washed and
(46:53):
processed in times when therewas no massive machinery around
and the communities that werethere.
And then on to Barkie.
It's a birthplace of labour,with the tree of knowledge there
.
And then on to Longreach, homeof Qantas, school of the air.
The mighty Thompson River Gotthe big.
Kate Coomber (47:13):
Stockall.
Karyn Matterson (47:15):
The big Stockall Hall of Fame.
We went there as kids, as aschool camp, and then Winton
with the magnificent dinosaurfossils and all the rest of it.
You can see my tourismbackground.
Sam Miklos (47:26):
I was about to say to you everything is selling it.
I was a bit like yeah, we'll goand do it Now.
I'm like, thank you, God, we'vegot a lot to do.
Kate Coomber (47:37):
It's two weeks and that's fine.
There's so much to see and Ithink that that's the really
wonderful thing for people toalso understand that they can
get out and experience it.
And I think that to be ahealthcare professional, how
amazing, regardless of what youdo, to be able to travel and
work in this way and work inthis way, and to be able to
experience these communities toshop before you buy, as it were,
(47:59):
and have a look at these areasbefore you decide if you want to
be somewhere a little bit morepermanently.
Sam Miklos (48:04):
Can I ask them, like what's next for you, because
you've had these great careers?
Is there another iteration?
Is you know the DMS role?
Is it staying in DMS role?
Yeah, you know the dms role isit?
Yeah, you know, leadership,which is different to where do
you where I feel like you're notdone there's a lot more to go
like and is black hole long term.
(48:25):
Is there other fact?
Kate Coomber (48:25):
we're going back to school to be a fashion
designer.
You know what's the?
What's the next career?
Karyn Matterson (48:29):
things in here, yeah um, look, I think think
being the president of GPRegistrars Australia has given
me a really nice entree andtaste and grounding in, I guess,
strategy at a political level.
You know the ability to learnand interact with colleagues
(49:07):
that are presidents of RACGP andACRM and the fabulous CEOs that
run those organisations.
And you know wonderful peoplefrom AMA leadership Danielle
McMullen, steve Robson, and thenyou know all of the RDAA people
.
You know all of the RDAA peopleand GP Registrars Australia.
You know punches well above itsweight in having its say and
(49:27):
being active in that space.
And I loved, know I still am inthe space where I'm learning and
gathering information andreally for Blackall, really
looking at workforce.
And you know I've got a hybridteam out there.
(49:51):
Out there and locums has been adirty word for health care
policy makers and governmentsfor some time now and I want to
change that because locumsaren't a dirty word.
I've got a magnificent team ofregular fly-in, fly-out doctors
and the community.
(50:12):
They come back to the communityand the community loves them.
They love the community andthey love the flexibility.
Kate Coomber (50:21):
And locum doesn't mean not committed right.
That's exactly right, sothey're committed to the
community, just because they'renot there permanently.
Yeah, yeah.
Karyn Matterson (50:28):
The locums that are in our team out there are
committed.
And it's interesting because Iwas part of the RACGP Future
Leaders Program and my projectwas called Bush Telegraph
Doctors and it was about metropractices pairing up with bush
practices to do basically anemployment exchange.
Sam Miklos (50:50):
Exchange yeah.
Karyn Matterson (50:52):
And allowing metro doctors to go out to the
bush, and they could go out fora month, or they to go out to
the bush, and they could go outfor a month, or they could go
out for six months, or what haveyou?
And whether it was for just toboost appointments and access or
to, you know, relieve a bushdoctor, for them to go on some
(51:13):
leave, some annual leave.
Yeah, that was the idea and thenoff that idea there was
placements and memorandum ofunderstanding in metro emergency
departments for GPs to buildtheir confidence again in trauma
and ED situations.
(51:34):
Yeah, and also, you know, alsophone a friend.
So I mean that system stuff iswhat interests me.
Sam and I would love to have anopportunity looking at a
specific area of interest,whether it be in I'm about to
(51:55):
embark on medical weightmanagement as a gypsy, a GP with
special interests in a Brisbaneclinic very shortly next year
and just build use my dieteticskills and my medicine skills
for that area.
So, whether it's looking atsystems in different areas
(52:15):
around the world, like differentclinics, how they work, or you
know, I've got some sort of ideathat I want to do some sort of
research or study.
Not necessarily I don't reallywant to write a scientific paper
.
Remember the statistics.
Sam Miklos (52:34):
I was just going to say.
I was like no, no, you wouldn't.
Karyn Matterson (52:38):
Yeah, but I'd like to potentially do that.
And then you know work toadvocate, whether it be through
RACGP or ACRM or you know take a.
Sam Miklos (52:51):
The advocacy piece is still calling you right.
I was going to say from theseals to healthcare, you know,
and that's amazing.
Kate Coomber (53:02):
So today, with every episode that goes out, CMR
are donating to a charity ofyour choice.
Where have you picked today?
Karyn Matterson (53:11):
Well, there's an organisation called Remote
Australians Matter and they're afabulous advocacy organisation
of which I'm a financial memberand I would like to donate to
that particular charity yeahwonderful.
Thank you very much for thatawesome opportunity to make that
(53:34):
donation.
I think that's very generous ofyou and the work that you guys
are doing to get the message outthere.
It's just fabulous.
So congratulations, both of you, thank you.
Sam Miklos (53:46):
It's lovely hearing about the charities.
We want to shine a light oncharities that might also get a
light shone on them.
And you know these conversationsare so helpful and inspiring
and thank you, karen, like, fortrusting us with your story.
You are such an inspirationallady, like when you hear you're
not finishing high school, yeah,to where you are today.
(54:08):
There will be so many peoplethat will hear this and and just
be so inspired in so manydifferent ways, and even the
love and the passion that youhave for rural Australia, like
you know.
You just light up.
Kate Coomber (54:22):
It's infectious.
It's so infectious, I'm soexcited now.
I mean she's jumping in thecaravan just off the back of
this year I was a little bitlike, but now.
Sam Miklos (54:29):
I'm like, I'm in there.
Yeah, we are so grateful thatwe got to have time with you
today.
Kate Coomber (54:35):
Thank you so much, thank you.
Sam Miklos (54:37):
Can't wait to see the next step in advocacy for
you as well and we'll see you inBlackhall next year.
Karyn Matterson (54:42):
Make sure you do, absolutely, thank you.
Thanks so much.
Sam Miklos (54:45):
Thanks.
Thanks for tuning in to itTakes Heart.
Kate Coomber (54:48):
If you loved this episode, subscribe leave a
review or share it with a friend, and if you know someone with a
great story in healthcare, getin touch.
Follow us on socials for allthe behind the scenes fun, and
we'll see you next time.
Welcome to it Takes Heart.
I'm.
Sam Miklos (00:01):
Kate and I'm Sam, and we can't wait to share more
incredible stories of healthcareprofessionals making an impact
across Australia.
Karyn Matterson (00:08):
The only way I could get to go and do medicine
after I got through the GAMSATand all those of it was to join
the Defence Force.
So I was a doctor in the AirForce for 11 years.
Becoming a doctor would meansecurity for me and my family.
As far as my profession, itwould enable me to do something,
(00:30):
to try and make a differencesomewhere.
Kate Coomber (00:39):
We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the
land of which we meet who, forcenturies, have shared ancient
methods of healing and cared fortheir communities.
We pay our respects to elders,past and present.
Sam Miklos (00:55):
So today we're here with Dr Karen Madison, who has
come almost a thousandkilometres from Blackall
Hospital in Outback Queensland.
Karen is a specialist GP andrural generalist with a passion
for primary healthcare for everyAustralian everywhere.
What Kate and I foundparticularly fascinating about
Karen is that healthcare wasn'ther first career choice.
(01:15):
She had a successful career inevents and tourism before a
life-changing event brought adifferent perspective and guided
her toward a career withpurpose in healthcare.
She's currently the Director ofMedical Services for Blackall
Hospital and has always taken anactive role in various
professional committees, such asthe Queensland Faculty of the
RACGP or the Council for GP atAMA Queensland.
(01:37):
She previously held the role ofPresident of GP Registrars
Australia as well.
A fun fact about Karen is thatshe's great friends with Sonia
Henry, who you may remember fromseason one of the podcast.
Karen, thank you so much forjoining us and welcome to.
It Takes Heart.
Karyn Matterson (01:53):
Thanks Sam.
Thanks Kate, nice to be here,yeah.
Sam Miklos (01:56):
I want to start first with Sonia.
Karyn Matterson (01:57):
Okay.
Sam Miklos (01:59):
Everyone does.
We loved the book and obviously, the book was the inspiration
for the podcast, just tellingthese great stories of all of
these amazing healthcareprofessionals in our country.
Were you one of the charactersin the book?
Karyn Matterson (02:10):
Look, I cannot confirm and I don't know,
because Sonia was very, verycareful about keeping every
identity a secret, and there'slots of fiction in there, as
well Is there as well.
Sam Miklos (02:22):
You've got to tell a good story.
That's always my motto.
Don't let the truth get in theway of, and there's lots of
fiction in there as well, isthere as well.
You've got to tell a good,never hold back a bit.
There's a good story there aswell.
That's always my motto Don'tlet the truth get in the way of
a good story.
Karyn Matterson (02:31):
How did you meet Sonia?
We met at medical school.
We actually did our ruralclinical school placement
together up in a little towncalled Lithgow, which is an hour
and a half out of theSutherland Shire, where I grew
up.
Oh, did you yeah yeah, in NewSouth Wales and Sonny and I and
(02:51):
two other of our fellow studentsfour of us were up there for
about 10 weeks in placement.
We had an amazing time, whichinvolved going down a mine shaft
one day Working, or just as asocial.
Kate Coomber (03:07):
No, no, no, not for fun.
Karyn Matterson (03:13):
We were actually quite terrified at
times.
It was pitch black, dark andwet.
We got dressed up in our fluorooveralls, got in this little
tram and we went like down, down, down down I would be and it
was but it was amazing seeingall of the um, the, the life and
(03:37):
the work that goes onunderground, because Lithgow is
um a coal mining area and asteel production area, and for
us to go down there and then wespent time with the occupational
physician that worked with themines, so the medicine context
(03:57):
was then, you know, overlaid inthat particular experience.
It was incredible.
But then we had bingo at theLithgow RSL too, which was
amazing Down in the mountains.
Yeah, so we've been greatfriends since then.
And Sonia's actually come outto Blackall on a locum stint for
(04:19):
me as well, so she knows thearea out there.
Kate Coomber (04:26):
Now, what we found really fascinating when we were
speaking is that and as Sammentioned, you had a career
before medicine.
Talk us through it.
I think there's a bit of a.
Probably people assume thatpeople go through primary school
saying I'm going to be a doctor, and then everything they do is
leading to that straight fromschool, not to mention the years
(04:49):
to to become a doctor so yeah,to have other careers like yeah,
how did it happen for you?
Sam Miklos (04:54):
where do you want to be when you left school?
Karyn Matterson (04:56):
well, that's a really good question.
I sort of took a lot of detourson the way.
I remember being a kid andwanting to be involved in
advocacy of some sort and itstarted out in grade five, I
think it was and wrote a letterto the Prime Minister about save
(05:22):
the baby seals letter to thePrime Minister about save the
baby seals.
And I remember that picturewith their big black, doughy
eyes looking out at me on theice and on the snow, and I
thought, oh, I've got to write,I've got to do something here.
I've really got to, you know,have a say and do something.
And so I wrote a letter andthat sort of you know.
I got a response which wasfantastic and then sort of went
(05:45):
from there.
And then in year seven a fellowstudent of mine got run over by
a bus in front of the schooland I thought this isn't right,
we've got to do something aboutthis.
And I wrote a letter to thelocal newspaper advocating for a
bus bay to be put in, and a busbay was put in, for a bus bay
(06:08):
to be put in, and a bus bay wasput in.
And so I got this passion fordoing stuff and getting involved
and, you know, making adifference wherever I could, and
sort of went on from there.
I was in youth groups and allsorts of things.
And then my family moved downto Tasmania and then my family
moved down to Tasmania and itwas all different for me.
They had a different schoolingsystem.
(06:29):
I was in year 10 at the time.
You know had the typical year10 distractions that you do,
don't know what you mean.
Kate Coomber (06:36):
Yeah.
Karyn Matterson (06:41):
And so I decided to leave school at 16.
And then I left school and Iwalked up to my first employer
and knocked on the door and said, can I have a job please?
And I started as a junioraccounts clerk and I remember I
was earning $120 a week.
Sam Miklos (06:54):
Did you get it in a little packet?
Yes, remember that.
Yeah.
Karyn Matterson (06:59):
And he used to take the mail out and they used
to look after balancing thepetty cash and all of that type
of thing mail out and they usedto look after the you know,
balancing the petty cash and youknow all of that type of thing.
And then the company shut downin Tasmania and we had a choice
we could go anywhere inAustralia or we could take a
redundancy package.
Now at 16, almost 17,.
I thought, bugger it.
(07:20):
I'm going to go travel, and soI got posted to Ayers Rock.
I'm going to go travel, and soI got posted to Ayers Rock, and
I lived in Ayers Rock as a frontoffice person at Yallara there
for six months Wow.
Kate Coomber (07:36):
And you went on your own.
I was on my own, or was there afew people being posted?
Karyn Matterson (07:39):
People got posted anywhere and everywhere.
Sam Miklos (07:42):
How did?
You find that Because I wasthere this year and I'm
visualising, I'm like 16, 17.
Karyn Matterson (07:48):
Yeah, I was 16 and I was frightened.
I've still got friends fromEd's Rock and there was one
particular lady that took meunder her wing and looked after
me which was fantastic because Iwas so young Climbed the rock,
had family come and visit youknow, did a little bit of a
(08:09):
fashion parade when the fashioncame out like, got involved in
the community and you know I metmany, many people.
But then went back to Sydneyand stayed in tourism at the
time and that was my firstcareer tourism and particularly
inbound tourism.
And again, I still know peoplefrom my first career tourism and
in particularly inbound tourism.
And again I still know peoplefrom my inbound tourism days and
(08:30):
my role was developing programsfor executives that won trips
to come to Australia that theycouldn't they couldn't buy the
program off the shelf, that in abrochure.
We had to do it from go to go,start to finish and it was a
life full of fun and laughterand parties and dress-ups and
(08:51):
lots of fireworks we extendedthe Hamilton.
Island runway to get a Germanaircraft, a DC-10, in there.
So it was stuff that we weredoing to make it a fantastic
experience for everyone.
And that's when I met myhusband, matthew, when I was
(09:13):
doing an all-nighter trying toget 150 Americans out to
Australia and win a job which wewon, by the way.
But I met him because he was asecurity guard at the time and
he brought me back breakfast andwe fell in love and got married
and had our first child andmoved up to Port Douglas in far
(09:33):
north Queensland where I wasrunning Village Carnivale.
And unfortunately, that's thetime where tragedy sort of
struck in my life and Matthewsuicided of struck in my life
and Matthew suicided and Elise,my daughter.
She was just before she was oneyears of age.
It was the day before her firstbirthday party.
(09:54):
Oh my goodness.
And her birthday fell a coupleof days before.
So that, needless to say, waslife changing, but not just for
me.
It was bad for me but it'sworse for it's been worse for
children of people that suicide,you know, not to have an
(10:16):
opportunity to meet their parentand family and friends and
colleagues.
I call it the ripple effect.
That ripple effect justpermeates through people when
someone suicides and it takes alot for someone to get through
that really intense time whenthere's funerals and sadness and
(10:40):
all that grief.
Did you have family around?
Well, my family were all inSydney.
Sydney yeah, and I was.
As I say, I was up thererunning this event and then I
got a job in a marketing,tourism, marketing company and I
remember being up in the officeand getting a message to call a
(11:02):
police officer and this policeofficer delivered the news to me
over the phone and it was justso traumatic.
People came running fromeverywhere, not knowing what had
gone on, because you know, Ijust, you know screamed.
You just don't know how it'sgoing to affect you at the time.
Sam Miklos (11:21):
How do you?
You said about like, how didyou get through that moment,
like with a one year old, to getthrough those years?
Karyn Matterson (11:29):
Yeah.
So my mum and dad were on aplane immediately, and I
remember that night just mum anddad, you know, hugging me
because I was just insoluble.
Um, yeah.
So there comes a time whenthere's quiet, though, and that
(11:49):
quiet usually happens after thefuneral's done and everyone goes
home and goes back to theirlife and life goes on right.
And in that quiet moment Ithought again I've got to do
something.
And I remember lying on FourMile Beach when everyone had
gone home and everything wasquiet and I felt the warmth of
(12:13):
the sand and I had it in myhands and I thought I've got to
relearn again.
I have to do something.
I have to do something morethan fun and frivolity and
parties and you know and nodenigration whatsoever to that
industry, because I love it, butfor me I had to do something,
(12:34):
and so I went back and Irelearned.
I felt like I needed to relearnagain and I went back and I did
my HSC.
I hadn't done my H HSC with aone-year-old and I went back and
did that, and then I got myselfinto Sydney Uni to study
psychology and that lasted abouttwo minutes.
Kate Coomber (12:54):
I can imagine going into psychology too.
I mean coming out of what youjust have that in itself would
be challenging subjects I hatedthe biostatistics.
Karyn Matterson (13:04):
It was just like no, I can't do this.
And you know I still do it inmy role now.
But you know, anyway at thattime I just didn't do it and I
went back to tourism for alittle bit and then I decided to
try again and I got myself intoclinical dietetics and I spent
(13:25):
the next four years studyingnutrition and dietetics at the
University of Wollongong andgraduated with class one honours
.
Well done, thank you.
How old was Elise by this stage?
Kate Coomber (13:37):
Oh gosh, she was eight Incredible yeah, just
amazing.
Karyn Matterson (13:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was still in primary
school and I'd had another childby then, because I'd been
married again with my secondhusband so, yeah, travis was
very young as well, so he wasonly five and yeah, then started
my own business working as aclinical dietitian.
(14:02):
so that's how I sort of got intohealth care, because I felt
like I needed to do somethingthat was going to help more
people.
And clinical dietetics is I'mjust going to be a little bit
biased here, but I think it'svery underrated and hasn't been
supported in the past for manyAustralians to get access to
(14:27):
good clinical, evidence-baseddata about clinical nutrition
and dietetics.
So I'm really, you know, I dotake that opportunity to use it
wherever I can within my role asa doctor.
So then, yeah, I had my ownbusiness as a dietitian.
(14:50):
I implanted myself in GPsurgeries around New South Wales
.
I did virtually I did a lot ofaged care work for nursing homes
in the Shire.
That was a big area of interest, and so was weight management
and obesity, and I actually hadthe opportunity to not only be
(15:11):
the national convener for theRehabilitation and Aged Care
Group for DAA DietitiansAssociation, but also had the
opportunity to speak to theHouse of Representatives in the
obesity inquiry in 2000.
I think it was 2006, 2008.
Sam Miklos (15:26):
Yeah, incredible opportunity, yeah, but.
Karyn Matterson (15:28):
I couldn't get medicine out of my head.
Sam Miklos (15:30):
I was just going to say, was medicine coming up
through when you'd been in thoseprivate practices?
Kate Coomber (15:36):
Yeah, Did it sort of evolve, because you could see
the knock-on effect and youcould see the links.
Karyn Matterson (15:41):
Yeah, I could see the links, because I could
deliver all of this informationto my patients, which they found
really, really useful.
But if I didn't have the GP onboard, then then there was no
incentive for the GP to beinvolved.
It was very difficult todeliver a holistic therapy, so
(16:02):
to speak, to the patient.
So I just thought, no, I needto be the one writing the care
plan.
Yeah, I need to beorchestrating it and
understanding how it works.
I need to get that.
I need to be there and I needto do more.
I just need to do more.
Kate Coomber (16:20):
And so was GP always on the radar or when you
went into medicine.
So going to medical school,then was that a very clear
vision that I want to be ageneral practitioner, or was it
a bit open at that stage?
Karyn Matterson (16:32):
It was open and it's really interesting that
you bring up that point becausethrough medical school and
pre-vocational training, many,many people might have a special
interest but they still haven'tdecided.
I was interested in emergencymedicine, but the only way I
(16:52):
could get to go and do medicineafter I got through the GAMSAT
and all the rest of it was tojoin the Defence Force.
So I was a doctor in the AirForce for 11 years and the
reason being was I was sponsoredthrough medical school because
I had a family.
Kate Coomber (17:10):
I had a mortgage.
Karyn Matterson (17:11):
I had everything.
It was the only way I could doit.
And did someone plant that ideato you?
I'm like how did you do medical?
Sam Miklos (17:13):
school because I had a family, I had a mortgage, I
had everything.
It was the only way I could doit.
And did someone plant that ideato you?
I'm like, how did you domedical?
Karyn Matterson (17:16):
school.
Sam Miklos (17:17):
So I wasn't aware of that, yeah.
Kate Coomber (17:20):
Did someone just recommend that to you, or was it
just through research that yousaw that as an option?
Through research?
Karyn Matterson (17:25):
Yeah, through research, and then obviously,
when you come along, you've gota decent score and all the rest
of it and you're a Commonwealthsupported place, defence goes.
Thanks very much, yep we'lltake you.
And yeah.
So I then, after my internshipand residency, went on base.
Sam Miklos (17:48):
And for 11 years was it, did you say?
Karyn Matterson (17:50):
So 11 years in total, and for 11 years did you
say so, 11 years in total.
So my medical training.
Throughout training I wassupported by defence, paid a
salary so I was able to maintaina family.
Sam Miklos (18:02):
I was on my third husband by then.
Karyn Matterson (18:04):
by that stage, who was my high school
sweetheart?
Sam Miklos (18:08):
by the way from Tasmania.
Kate Coomber (18:10):
From Tasmania.
Sam Miklos (18:11):
Yes, what a full circle moment.
Kate Coomber (18:13):
Is he your current husband?
Sam Miklos (18:14):
Yes, he is, I was just going to say you're going
to know, he's it Wow.
Kate Coomber (18:19):
Yeah, and did you have you need to talk to Sonia
because you could write a booktoo?
You really could write a book.
Yeah, we haven't even gotstarted yet.
Sorry, I apologise.
I like it.
There's so many questions.
Sam Miklos (18:30):
So many things.
Can I ask when you said youlived on base with the family?
Karyn Matterson (18:34):
No.
Sam Miklos (18:35):
So you were flying home Like what was the frequency
?
Karyn Matterson (18:38):
So through medical school I was with the
family and through internshipand residency, and I did my
internship and residency at StGeorge Hospital in New South
Wales.
I then was posted toWilliamtown, up in Newcastle and
I lived off on base but awayfrom home.
(19:02):
So I was living away from home,my family was still in Sydney
and so I used to travel up andtravel back, Travel up travel
back Every week every month,every, not every fortnight,
basically yeah, yeah, and thekids were getting you know older
at this stage and a lot moreindependent and um, yeah, so
(19:23):
it's easier when the kids are alittle bit older.
It's really difficult whenthey're younger yeah, yes it is.
Sam Miklos (19:29):
We are in those trenches like solidly right now.
Yeah, so I did a few years atwilliamtown and then was posted
to amberley you know, um, forfor anyone listening who's
coming like how, how did you dothat there would have been so
many challenges to overcome to?
To you know, studying as amature age student, being being
(19:51):
away from home, like what werethe biggest challenges or
roadblocks that you faced, butthen how did you overcome them?
Karyn Matterson (19:57):
Okay.
So memory, yeah.
So when you get older it'sharder to study, not only
because it's justphysiologically harder to retain
that information, it's alsofamily pressures, yeah, yeah.
(20:17):
And you know, I'd go home andbe trying to study and I'd have
Trav my son at the door.
Mum, can I have this?
Yes, can I do this?
What are you doing?
Kate Coomber (20:29):
Yes, yes, yes.
What are you doing now, Mum?
Karyn Matterson (20:31):
And then, in contrast, I'd have my daughter
come up and she'd give me a nicemassage.
I'm like, oh stop.
But yeah, lots of distractions.
You overcome it by sheerdetermination, Sam.
Sam Miklos (20:47):
You're so focused on that, yeah.
Karyn Matterson (20:49):
Yeah, and it's like this, is this Like?
Becoming a doctor would meansecurity for me and my family,
as far as my profession, for therest of our lives.
It would enable me to dosomething, to try and make a
difference somewhere, withsomeone or a community or a
(21:14):
system, and it would you knowjust you know, have me busy, I
guess.
Kate Coomber (21:24):
You can see how purpose-driven you are and how
much it obviously just fillsyour cup to be doing the right
thing for people.
Sam Miklos (21:33):
Yeah, I try and to be helping and that's obviously
innate, since you were littleyeah.
When you left then Defence.
What's the journey been fromthere to now?
To now and where did the lovefor rural health come in and
Black Hole yeah.
Karyn Matterson (21:52):
So when I left the Defence Force I was like a
kid in a candy shop.
I traversed the country fromDarwin down to Tasmania out to
Palm Island, Just locuming,Locuming.
Sam Miklos (22:07):
For a couple of years.
Kate Coomber (22:09):
And on your own or taking family with you.
Or a bit of a mix, bit of a mix.
Karyn Matterson (22:12):
Yeah, a bit of years, yeah, and on your own or
taking family with you, or a bitof a mix.
Bit of a mix, yeah, yeah, a bitof a mix.
So a lot of the local places.
Simon would, my husband wouldum come with me and what?
Does simon do, uh he, he worksum in the banking industry.
Sam Miklos (22:24):
He's completely not involved in medicine yeah, he
can't come along and work inthose areas, because some of our
some of our guests have beenlike taking their husbands along
and they in those areas.
No, because some of our guestshave been like taking their
husbands along and they'll dosome handiwork around the
hospital, or yeah, and he justcomes along.
Karyn Matterson (22:38):
Yeah Well, simon's got this incredible
knack of just being there aswell for people whenever they
need it, so like even in ourhouse up in Blackhall, there's
little things that might needdoing, like the water tank might
have a valve that needs turning, or the gas needs replacing or
(23:02):
something, and usually thedoctor would say to the
maintenance people or thebusiness manager can you do this
, but Simon just gets out anddoes it, gets it done.
Yeah, can you do this, but Simonjust gets out and does it, gets
it done, yeah and I mean thefeedback that he has is that it
takes a huge pressure off forsomeone to actually just be
there.
But yeah, he does really wellin communities, fairly quiet
(23:26):
type of man, but he does well tomake friends.
Sam Miklos (23:32):
So you locumumed all around, all around, yeah, all
around Australia.
What were some of yourfavourite?
Karyn Matterson (23:36):
places I loved Cap Coast, so up in Yipoon there
that was pretty great.
I was there for that's whereI'm from.
Oh, really, you grew up thereNice area?
Kate Coomber (23:48):
Yeah, really nice area.
Karyn Matterson (23:50):
Wangaratta was pretty good too down in Victoria
.
Sam Miklos (23:53):
We've always faced a lot of candidates down in
Wangaratta.
They've always loved it.
Karyn Matterson (23:56):
Yeah, the hospital there.
I basically just looked afterfast track there in emergency
and it was fantastic because theGPs are very, very good at
dealing with those cat four andfives that come into.
Oh, we're good with dealingwith emergencies too, because
(24:18):
that's what we do.
But to be able to turn peopleover and see them and see them
in the time that we are used toseeing patients is really useful
for some of those countryhospitals and a lot of the
presentations I've got to say.
You know, gps know what they'relooking at, whereas you know
(24:45):
non-GP specialists sometimes arejust not.
They know it, but it's not acommon thing that they see.
So they don't recognise it maybeas quickly like some sort of
rash.
Sam Miklos (25:02):
Yeah Something like that.
Karyn Matterson (25:03):
So I mean that's a good example of rash
you know, yeah, yeah.
Sam Miklos (25:09):
What do you love about?
Because obviously, when youwere locuming around and going
to these rural and regionallocations, what do you love most
about those roles versus maybesettling in one of the?
Karyn Matterson (25:20):
metropolitan areas to experience Australia
from a different perspective.
Different areas offer differentthings, different landscapes,
(25:41):
different feels, differentpeople and people, I think, in
rural and remote areas haveunique stories, just as people
do in metro, but people live inmetro and don't talk to each
other in communities forever,whereas it's a little bit
(26:05):
different in remote and ruralplaces.
People tend to talk and askquestions.
Kate Coomber (26:12):
Yeah, it's come up a little bit, hasn't it, that
some of the city health careprofessionals that we have are
actually the loneliest they'veever felt and they're in these
metro areas with everything attheir disposal, with people
everywhere, yet lonely, yeah,and they go out to to more rural
communities and there's thatreal fiction yeah, there's,
people do things together it's.
Karyn Matterson (26:33):
It's funny because, uh, that parrot, the
paradox of being the furthestaway and being, you know, just
so isolated, are some of thetimes when I felt the closest,
yeah, to people.
You know so, um, that fabricand that mesh work is, and and
(26:55):
when I say people, I'm talkingabout other professionals that
are in the area nursing staff orallied health staff and you
know that teamwork and I guessthat's defense really built that
teamwork ethos and so diddietetics that teamwork ethos.
You've got toetics thatteamwork ethos.
You've got to collaborate withother people.
You've got to collaborate andyou've got to talk to people and
(27:17):
you've got to problem solve andyou know, sometimes you are
there by yourself and you'rejust it, you know, and that's
pretty scary, but in Metro yousort of and especially this is
so difficult for a lot of ouryoung early career doctors going
(27:40):
into specialist generalpractice training.
They feel so alone in theirroom and it's quite isolating.
Kate Coomber (27:49):
Because they're a general practitioner in a clinic
room.
Sam Miklos (27:52):
Yeah rather than in a ward with other people and
other beds.
Kate Coomber (27:58):
How do we?
Karyn Matterson (27:59):
help that.
I think peer learning is reallyimportant and networks are
really important.
It's a big role for ourcolleges and our associations to
play in that, having not onlyprofessional mentorship but also
(28:21):
that peer near peer.
Especially if you're going outinto these locations too and
then feeling that lack ofconnection, or yeah yeah would
be so important that's right, um, and certainly moving from
pre-vocational training intospecialist general practice or
(28:44):
rural generalism.
There's so much more we can doin order to, you know, put some
guardrails or some supports inplace to not only help
pre-vocational doctors choose GP, specialist GP and rural
generalist training, but also tokeep them in it.
Sam Miklos (29:07):
What would you say those?
Karyn Matterson (29:08):
guardrails are.
What would you say thoseguardrails are?
Well, there's the planks ofbeing recognised as an equitable
specialty training program withother specialty training
programs.
Currently GP registrars.
Take, you know, in metro areas,take a huge pay cut to come
(29:31):
into training metro areas take ahuge pay cut to come into
training.
Kate Coomber (29:42):
So just some support for base rate parity and
support You've got to seek itas an equal career right.
You've got to seek it, theyshould be, rewarded in the same
way.
Sam Miklos (29:47):
Second class career, poor cousin yeah, I was just
going to say the poor relativeof every other specialty.
Karyn Matterson (29:52):
Yeah, because it's not easy.
Generalism is again.
I'm going to go out on a limband I don't mean to offend any
of my non-GP specialistcolleagues here, but
generalism's hard, it's bloodyhard.
Sam Miklos (30:04):
That's come through a lot yeah.
Karyn Matterson (30:07):
It's not just one system, it's all systems and
you know that seeking ofinformation and that surgical
sieve, the sifting and thesorting, and which way do you go
, which alleyway do you go downto try and help this patient.
It's really challenging andit's a profession and you can't
(30:28):
learn that profession in aone-hour webinar.
Kate Coomber (30:30):
And even the personal skills, I imagine, that
are required by a GP maybe notin others to ask the right
questions, to get the rightinformation of people who maybe
aren't forthcoming.
Karyn Matterson (30:39):
Yeah, Very different.
Yeah, it is very different.
Sorry, Sam, I forgot yourquestion.
Sam Miklos (30:47):
No, I felt like you answered it.
Oh, I didn't know theguardrails.
Kate Coomber (30:50):
I was like what are the guardrails?
Sam Miklos (30:51):
I was thinking like is there anything else?
That might hold them back.
Karyn Matterson (30:55):
Yeah, so there's those, the systemic
guardrails, as in, you know, thesalary supports and the leave
supports.
Like GP, registrars need studyleave and exam leave, just like
hospital non-GP registrars needit.
So supports around that parentalleave, paid parental leave for
(31:19):
them as well.
So that's, they're reallyimportant systemic changes that
need to be enacted without thedetriment of anyone in other
areas.
It's just got to be a littlebit of an uplift there, from a
collegiate perspective again,those peer hubs and the supports
(31:43):
and the knowing where to go andpotentially value, matching a
supervisor with a registrar andyou know, and ensuring that they
know that there's support outthere through not only their
(32:06):
employers but also with thefantastic organisations like
Doctors for Doctors or the RuralDoctors Foundation.
You know, all of those supportsthat are out there just trying
to link that informationtogether.
That's such a piece I was justthinking when you were talking
(32:26):
about the support piece when Igraduated as an occupational
therapist.
Sam Miklos (32:28):
I went up to Toowoomba Hospital and all the
seniors were pregnant and theyall kind of disappeared and
there was four of us that weregraduates at the time and just
that feeling of I don't know whoour people are, who's there to
support us, that it was such anunsettling time and it was so
much pressure on the one personbut not being able to link up.
(32:49):
We kind of created our ownlittle support network and tried
to seek out other graduates andother health services around us
to get us through that and youkind of underestimate that
You've come out and you're soexcited to go.
Karyn Matterson (33:01):
But it can really detract you as well, Yep.
And then you go oh no, I'mready to go, I'm ready to go.
Sam Miklos (33:07):
I remember an orthopedic surgeon coming to me
and saying can you make a handsplint?
Kate Coomber (33:10):
I don't know where to turn it on, but go on.
Sam Miklos (33:12):
There's no hand therapist there.
I went, oh.
Kate Coomber (33:14):
I'm a crack, you could have manual.
He's like no, you do, I waslike oh, I'm out, I'm going to
London, literally, yeah, so itsounds like support.
Is that overarching in variousdifferent mechanisms of what
they need?
I I guess if you were standingin a room of those junior
doctors and you were standingthere talking to them about how
(33:37):
rural generalism can be as acareer or GP, what do you say to
them to really not to sell tothem?
But, what do you inspire them?
Karyn Matterson (33:46):
Yeah, Well, there's again lots of different
areas, because everyone isdifferent as far as what floats
their boat.
Kate Coomber (33:58):
And their why Everyone's got a different, why
yeah?
Karyn Matterson (34:01):
So I talk about how good the medicine is, how
wide the medicine is as far asscope, and there's a time when
you have to take deep dives intothat medicine when you've got
(34:23):
something happening.
Kate Coomber (34:24):
Yeah.
Karyn Matterson (34:26):
And I talk about the connection to people
and feeling like you're actuallymaking a difference to that
person.
And then I talk about doing,because in rural medicine we say
you can't be what you can't see.
So it takes a lot of peoplebeing to grow the profession, to
(35:00):
grow the profession, and youknow, I think generally
healthcare professionals are.
Kate Coomber (35:02):
You know they've got an element of altruism most.
Karyn Matterson (35:03):
Yes, yeah, it's like we're doing good for yeah,
yeah yeah, we're changingeverything.
Yeah, we're changing everythingwe're doing good for the country
we're doing good for ourneighbor, our community, and
that contribution to thecommunity is what inspires a lot
of people.
And you know it's true.
Again, we go back to startingin the bush.
(35:29):
If you grow healthcareprofessionals in the bush, if
you're growing them in thoseremote areas, if you're growing
them, you remote areas, ifyou're growing them, you know
the kids on cattle farms thatare out in outback Queensland or
anywhere in Australia thenthey're going to go back there
(35:52):
because that's their community.
And you know there's so manyyoung people that are inspired
when they go to the doctor andthey see their doctor.
They're inspired to become adoctor.
So it's really important, um tosay, as health care
professionals, as young doctors,as pre-vocational doctors and
medical students, you know, usethat feeling of your altruism
(36:17):
and use it and shine with it.
You can do, you can be.
Yeah, you can do you can be, andyou know, sometimes it takes
people a longer journey to getto where they are.
But when you're there, geez, itfeels good.
Kate Coomber (36:33):
And I'm sure you can speak from your own personal
experience.
It doesn't have to be the firstidea you've had.
No, you can get there wheneverit takes you there.
Karyn Matterson (36:42):
Yeah, I think the average careers most people
have is three careers in alifetime.
Now, isn't that right?
I'm sure it'll be more now thatlife expectancy is longer and
longer.
Sam Miklos (36:53):
Recently, I was saying we're going to live to
110.
Oh good.
Recently, I was saying we'regoing to live to 110.
Oh good, oh, that's right.
Kate Coomber (36:57):
We were at a conference going what?
Karyn Matterson (36:59):
What are we going to do?
Oh, that's good.
I want to live to 110.
Sam Miklos (37:01):
Well, there you go.
You might have the fourthcareer.
You know, there's still time.
Tell us about, then.
Blackall, oh yeah.
Kate Coomber (37:09):
Blackall Took the words out of my mouth.
Yeah, let's inspire people togo there, for example.
Sam Miklos (37:14):
Okay, you mentioned that you live on the grounds
earlier when you were talking.
What's it like, what's ahospital like?
What's being out there?
It's the experience.
Karyn Matterson (37:22):
Yeah, blackhall is.
The Blackhall Tambo region is acommunity of about 1,400, 1,500
people.
We're the only GP in town.
So Central West Queensland isan area of Queensland Health
that actually owns all thegeneral practice Because
Medicare and the funding and allthe rest of it there's been,
(37:45):
the owners of general practicehave left and it's happening all
over Australia.
We see it happening all overAustralia.
So the state has picked up allof the GP services.
We're very lucky in Blackhallbecause we've got a brand new
hospital and GP surgery.
So it's four years old.
(38:09):
And when I first arrived inBlackhall because I went on a
cook's tour of the central westwith my boss, dr David Walker,
and one of the general managersof acute care, fabulous nurse
Karen McClellan, and I did a bitof a cook's tour.
I did Blackall and Buckholdenand Longreach and they were
(38:34):
showing me all the differentareas, knowing that I'd locumed
all over the place.
But they really wanted me tosee the area.
And I went into Blackhawne andI was like this fabulous, brand
new facility just built by StHillier's, who now are broke
they're one of many after youknow what we've gone through
(38:55):
through post-COVID.
But yes, fabulous hospital,brand-new facilities and there's
only GP in town, and so I justwent.
Oh dang, what a difference Ican make.
Sam Miklos (39:11):
Yeah, everyone is going to come and see me.
Because, were you sort ofscoping around at this point to
go, where do I want to settle?
Like was this point to go?
Where do I want to settle, Likewas this after Locaming?
Where do I want to?
Karyn Matterson (39:19):
land.
Yeah, where do I want to land?
Because Locaming is great, it'sa great experience, but you're
there flying in and you're notpart of a team and you know as
much as you are made to feel.
Kate Coomber (39:33):
Welcome the mantra virtually as soon as you land
is oh, please stay, and thatmust make it really hard to
leave as well, when people justwant you there, yeah, and it's
those I mean.
Karyn Matterson (39:52):
it might be a bit much to say it's a moral
injury, but in a way I meangeneral practitioners.
If they can't do something, youknow, it does feel a little bit
difficult.
So sorry, I digress um no, no,it's wonderful relevant yeah so,
yeah, I landed in Blackall andum had a bit of a look and um
(40:12):
Barkie had a fabulous, fabulousacting DMS already in place,
waylon and you know.
So that was you know if therewas someone in place.
There's no way that you're goingto you know, want to you know,
be competition when the areaneeds so much.
Kate Coomber (40:28):
So it's like no.
Karyn Matterson (40:30):
And then Longreach.
And Longreach has got afabulous team of GP
anaesthetists and GPobstetricians and they had a
birthing centre up there and alot of local women give birth up
there and they have specialistscome out all the time.
It's like, oh, that's a bit bigfor my first.
Kate Coomber (40:48):
DMS gig.
Karyn Matterson (40:48):
Yeah, yeah, I want to, just, you know, settle
in a little bit Settle in get toknow the area.
I mean, we're a team of 30doctors out there across Central
West and, as I say, we've gotskilled GP, anaesthetists, gp,
obstetricians, gp, eds such asmyself.
(41:09):
It's so far.
You need to be able to manageeverything.
Yeah, but we can't.
We still can't manageeverything.
We've got mental healthsubspecialties, we've got people
with internal medicine, astsand paediatrics yeah.
So we've got a team of we'renot one or two doctors in
(41:32):
Blackall, permanent doctors inBlackall.
We're a team of 30 doctors thatwe can phone a friend when we
need it Across that whole regionyeah, across the whole region.
So I thought, okay, this isgreat, I'll be, you know first
DMS role, yeah.
Team there.
New facility Now where to live,yeah, and what is Simon, my
(41:59):
husband, going?
Sam Miklos (42:00):
to do as well.
Karyn Matterson (42:02):
Thank goodness we didn't have to worry about
childcare because my kids aregrown up and there was a house
on the premises named the Palace.
Sam Miklos (42:13):
On the hospital grounds.
Karyn Matterson (42:14):
Yeah, named the Palace.
It's called the palace.
Kate Coomber (42:17):
Yes, is it the palace it's actually very, very
comfortable.
Karyn Matterson (42:23):
The bugs think it's good too.
Kate Coomber (42:25):
Yeah, they've moved in the bug palace and the
geckos.
Karyn Matterson (42:29):
Got those geckos poo yeah they do.
Sam Miklos (42:31):
I knew Once you've got one they're in.
Yeah, they're in yeah.
Karyn Matterson (42:35):
So they're there, but then they help with
the bugs, right, yeah, right,and that's what we keep on
saying.
Sam Miklos (42:39):
So we've just named them.
Karyn Matterson (42:41):
Yes, I had a brown snake on my front fence a
baby brown yeah.
Sam Miklos (42:48):
Yeah.
Karyn Matterson (42:50):
Yeah, a bit like that.
So the house is great and it'sonly like 70 metres or so from
the hospital.
So the good side is that it's70 metres or so from the
hospital I was just about to say.
Kate Coomber (43:02):
Are you too accessible at times?
The bad side is how do youseparate and have those?
Karyn Matterson (43:08):
Well, actually everyone is really respectful
and you know, we've got anamazing team of nurses out there
, really some senior nurses andwe've got some enthusiastic new
grad nurses Central West runs afantastic new grad program out
there but everyone's reallyreally respectful.
(43:29):
When you're off, you're off,it's your time off, but I don't
respect myself.
I go into work all the time.
Sam Miklos (43:37):
So I think that would be hard.
I live 70 metres from thisoffice.
Yeah, I'd be in in the morning.
Kate Coomber (43:42):
Turn the lights on that makes sense now, when we
spoke the other day and you saidyou'd walked into the office.
I thought surely she must behome now.
Yeah, yeah, not far.
Karyn Matterson (43:51):
No.
So it's great, though, becauseI walk out my front door and
there is this.
Well, I walk out and there'susually kangaroos around.
You've got brown snake on thefence.
Sam Miklos (44:03):
Yeah, but that was once Sam.
Yeah, I know, I know, Moveforward, move forward.
Karyn Matterson (44:07):
Yeah.
Sam Miklos (44:08):
Kangaroos.
Karyn Matterson (44:09):
Yeah, so kangaroos out in the front yard
and I walk up further andthere's all these budgerigars
and natural bird life.
The previous Director ofMedical Services, Dr Kieran
LaPlastia, who's down in theGold Coast now, he and someone
else, I think.
Anyway, they did an amazing jobof designing a native garden, a
(44:33):
native Australian plants garden, and we've got all these.
It attracts all these beautifulbirds in the morning.
Kate Coomber (44:40):
It's a noisy wake up every morning.
Karyn Matterson (44:41):
It's gorgeous.
Kate Coomber (44:42):
Beautiful natural alarm.
Karyn Matterson (44:43):
Beautiful yeah.
That, and then the cows mooingout one side and the kangaroos
hopping on the other side, and Iwalk, walk, walk down the path
and then sometimes my littleechidna mates there on my way
home, burrowing on the side aswell, and then go into work.
Kate Coomber (45:02):
It sounds quite vibrant because I think when
some people think outbackQueensland they would think no
sound, maybe the odd squawking,I don't know crow or something
yeah.
But, that sounds really quiet.
Karyn Matterson (45:14):
Yeah Well, Blackhall is one of the towns
that is actually well, has theArtesian Basin running
underneath, and so Blackhall,Tambo, that region has no water
restrictions.
So people have lovely gardens,lovely lawns.
That's not what you wouldexpect.
Kate Coomber (45:33):
Yeah, yeah.
What about to visit throughBlackall?
Karyn Matterson (45:37):
Yeah, it's interesting.
So it's the Blackall Tamboregion and Tambo is lots of
sheep farmers, big sheepstations out there, and it's the
home of Tambo Teddies, have youno so?
Kate Coomber (45:51):
I took our kids to Carnarvon Gorge this year in
wintertime.
We had an amazing time.
We're thinking of going backthis year, but do we keep going
on to Longreach and do that?
And Winton, yeah, we are, we'redoing that in a caravan, are
you yeah?
I didn't know that.
I know right, Good on you.
We're going all the way toWinton.
Sam Miklos (46:10):
We might just stop at you on on the way through
Easter next year we're doing twoweeks in an RV with the three
kids.
Yeah right, fabulous.
All the way out to Winton andCarnarvon.
Kate Coomber (46:20):
Gorge and Longreach.
This is it, because we only hada week and so we were just
outside of in June and went intothe gorge and things like that.
But we thought, yeah, do we golonger next time and extend it,
because the kids loved it.
Karyn Matterson (46:32):
So much to see.
Well, fair dinkum, fair dinkum.
Every Aussie needs to go outwest and see it Tambo Teddies at
Tambo.
Yeah, the Wool Scour atBlackhall, which is a fabulous
display of you know how wool wasclassed and washed and
(46:53):
processed in times when therewas no massive machinery around
and the communities that werethere.
And then on to Barkie.
It's a birthplace of labour,with the tree of knowledge there
.
And then on to Longreach, homeof Qantas, school of the air.
The mighty Thompson River Gotthe big.
Kate Coomber (47:13):
Stockall.
Karyn Matterson (47:15):
The big Stockall Hall of Fame.
We went there as kids, as aschool camp, and then Winton
with the magnificent dinosaurfossils and all the rest of it.
You can see my tourismbackground.
Sam Miklos (47:26):
I was about to say to you everything is selling it.
I was a bit like yeah, we'll goand do it Now.
I'm like, thank you, God, we'vegot a lot to do.
Kate Coomber (47:37):
It's two weeks and that's fine.
There's so much to see and Ithink that that's the really
wonderful thing for people toalso understand that they can
get out and experience it.
And I think that to be ahealthcare professional, how
amazing, regardless of what youdo, to be able to travel and
work in this way and work inthis way, and to be able to
experience these communities toshop before you buy, as it were,
(47:59):
and have a look at these areasbefore you decide if you want to
be somewhere a little bit morepermanently.
Sam Miklos (48:04):
Can I ask them, like what's next for you, because
you've had these great careers?
Is there another iteration?
Is you know the DMS role?
Is it staying in DMS role?
Yeah, you know the dms role isit?
Yeah, you know, leadership,which is different to where do
you where I feel like you're notdone there's a lot more to go
like and is black hole long term.
(48:25):
Is there other fact?
Kate Coomber (48:25):
we're going back to school to be a fashion
designer.
You know what's the?
What's the next career?
Karyn Matterson (48:29):
things in here, yeah um, look, I think think
being the president of GPRegistrars Australia has given
me a really nice entree andtaste and grounding in, I guess,
strategy at a political level.
You know the ability to learnand interact with colleagues
(49:07):
that are presidents of RACGP andACRM and the fabulous CEOs that
run those organisations.
And you know wonderful peoplefrom AMA leadership Danielle
McMullen, steve Robson, and thenyou know all of the RDAA people
.
You know all of the RDAA peopleand GP Registrars Australia.
You know punches well above itsweight in having its say and
(49:27):
being active in that space.
And I loved, know I still am inthe space where I'm learning and
gathering information andreally for Blackall, really
looking at workforce.
And you know I've got a hybridteam out there.
(49:51):
Out there and locums has been adirty word for health care
policy makers and governmentsfor some time now and I want to
change that because locumsaren't a dirty word.
I've got a magnificent team ofregular fly-in, fly-out doctors
and the community.
(50:12):
They come back to the communityand the community loves them.
They love the community andthey love the flexibility.
Kate Coomber (50:21):
And locum doesn't mean not committed right.
That's exactly right, sothey're committed to the
community, just because they'renot there permanently.
Yeah, yeah.
Karyn Matterson (50:28):
The locums that are in our team out there are
committed.
And it's interesting because Iwas part of the RACGP Future
Leaders Program and my projectwas called Bush Telegraph
Doctors and it was about metropractices pairing up with bush
practices to do basically anemployment exchange.
Sam Miklos (50:50):
Exchange yeah.
Karyn Matterson (50:52):
And allowing metro doctors to go out to the
bush, and they could go out fora month, or they to go out to
the bush, and they could go outfor a month, or they could go
out for six months, or what haveyou?
And whether it was for just toboost appointments and access or
to, you know, relieve a bushdoctor, for them to go on some
(51:13):
leave, some annual leave.
Yeah, that was the idea and thenoff that idea there was
placements and memorandum ofunderstanding in metro emergency
departments for GPs to buildtheir confidence again in trauma
and ED situations.
(51:34):
Yeah, and also, you know, alsophone a friend.
So I mean that system stuff iswhat interests me.
Sam and I would love to have anopportunity looking at a
specific area of interest,whether it be in I'm about to
(51:55):
embark on medical weightmanagement as a gypsy, a GP with
special interests in a Brisbaneclinic very shortly next year
and just build use my dieteticskills and my medicine skills
for that area.
So, whether it's looking atsystems in different areas
(52:15):
around the world, like differentclinics, how they work, or you
know, I've got some sort of ideathat I want to do some sort of
research or study.
Not necessarily I don't reallywant to write a scientific paper
.
Remember the statistics.
Sam Miklos (52:34):
I was just going to say.
I was like no, no, you wouldn't.
Karyn Matterson (52:38):
Yeah, but I'd like to potentially do that.
And then you know work toadvocate, whether it be through
RACGP or ACRM or you know take a.
Sam Miklos (52:51):
The advocacy piece is still calling you right.
I was going to say from theseals to healthcare, you know,
and that's amazing.
Kate Coomber (53:02):
So today, with every episode that goes out, CMR
are donating to a charity ofyour choice.
Where have you picked today?
Karyn Matterson (53:11):
Well, there's an organisation called Remote
Australians Matter and they're afabulous advocacy organisation
of which I'm a financial memberand I would like to donate to
that particular charity yeahwonderful.
Thank you very much for thatawesome opportunity to make that
(53:34):
donation.
I think that's very generous ofyou and the work that you guys
are doing to get the message outthere.
It's just fabulous.
So congratulations, both of you, thank you.
Sam Miklos (53:46):
It's lovely hearing about the charities.
We want to shine a light oncharities that might also get a
light shone on them.
And you know these conversationsare so helpful and inspiring
and thank you, karen, like, fortrusting us with your story.
You are such an inspirationallady, like when you hear you're
not finishing high school, yeah,to where you are today.
(54:08):
There will be so many peoplethat will hear this and and just
be so inspired in so manydifferent ways, and even the
love and the passion that youhave for rural Australia, like
you know.
You just light up.
Kate Coomber (54:22):
It's infectious.
It's so infectious, I'm soexcited now.
I mean she's jumping in thecaravan just off the back of
this year I was a little bitlike, but now.
Sam Miklos (54:29):
I'm like, I'm in there.
Yeah, we are so grateful thatwe got to have time with you
today.
Kate Coomber (54:35):
Thank you so much, thank you.
Sam Miklos (54:37):
Can't wait to see the next step in advocacy for
you as well and we'll see you inBlackhall next year.
Karyn Matterson (54:42):
Make sure you do, absolutely, thank you.
Thanks so much.
Sam Miklos (54:45):
Thanks.
Thanks for tuning in to itTakes Heart.
Kate Coomber (54:48):
If you loved this episode, subscribe leave a
review or share it with a friend, and if you know someone with a
great story in healthcare, getin touch.
Follow us on socials for allthe behind the scenes fun, and
we'll see you next time.
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