October 1, 2024 • 51 mins
Listen in to this episode as dedicated remote and emergency nurse, David Maxwell shares the power of cultural understanding in remote nursing. He shares poignant stories about patient vulnerability, emphasising support and clear communication as well as empathy in the role of male healthcare professionals in community.
Since 2018, David has been on an inspiring journey serving rural and remote communities, focusing on primary health care and chronic disease management. His path to nursing is as unique as it is motivating, having transitioned from the world of hospitality in England to healthcare in Australia, all sparked by a life-altering conversation with a rugby teammate.
David demonstrates that nursing isn't just about clinical skills in communities like Wilcannia and Bamaga but about empathy and cultural sensitivity. Hear his practical insights on building trust with patients by respecting their cultural norms and giving them choices in their care.
Additionally, we delve into his personal initiative, Planet Prostate, and the significance of open conversations about men’s health. This episode is packed with heartwarming stories, practical advice, and inspiring initiatives that highlight the power of compassion and community in healthcare.
This episode of It Takes Heart has CEO of cmr Sam Miklos hosting alongside Head of Talent and Employer Branding, Kate Coomber.
We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso
More about David's Charity of Choice:
COUCH (Cairns Organisation United for Cancer Health)
COUCH is a community focused charity with a mission to improve health care services for Cairns and Far North Queensland residents diagnosed with cancer.
Established as an action group in September 2006 by founders Charles and Pip Woodward, COUCH was inspired by Cairns resident Liz Plummer and her inspiring fight for better oncology services in Far North Queensland.
The COUCH board and volunteers have been dedicated to that original vision of addressing the imbalance of services and support for people with cancer - and their families - in Far North Queensland compared to those in larger, metropolitan cities.
The lack of oncology and cancer support services has caused unnecessary pain and suffering, with Far North Queensland residents often forced to travel to Townsville or Brisbane for treatment.
Visit https://www.mbansw.org.auhttps://couch.org.au/charity/donations for more information.
Get to know cmr better!
Follow @ittakesheartpodcast on Instagram, @cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment on Linked In, @cornerstonemedicalrec on TikTok and @CornerstoneMedicalRecruitment on Facebook.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We care for the land and sea.
We care for the energy.
We care for our community.
We care.
Welcome to it Takes Heart.
(00:21):
I'm Sam Miklos and I'm KateCoomba.
We hope you enjoy theseincredible stories of healthcare
professionals making adifference in communities across
Australia and beyond.
Through our conversations, welook to celebrate the spirit of
community and care.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land who have
long practised and sharedancient methods of healing,
providing care and support fortheir communities with wisdom
(00:44):
passed down through generations.
Kate Coomber (00:46):
Join us as we explore what it truly means to
take heart.
Sam Miklos (00:55):
Today we get to speak to remote and emergency
nurse David Maxwell.
David's been working with ourteam on and off since 2018 on a
variety of rural and remotecontract roles.
In 2023, prostate cancersurvivor, david launched a local
initiative in Cairns calledPlanet Prostate to help raise
vital funds and awareness forthe disease that impacts one in
(01:16):
five men in their lifetime.
Our team described David as adedicated nurse who makes it his
mission to fully understand theculture of every community that
he supports, and he's alwaysstraight to the point.
Welcome, david, to the it TakesHeart podcast.
Hello, thank you for having me.
Fantastic, thank you for comingDavid.
(01:36):
I guess I'd love to know go onwhat was that I'd like to say.
David Maxwell (01:41):
First, I'd like to pay respect to the elders,
past and present, on the land onwhich I am and where you are.
I'm in Gimli, on your dingycountry, and, yeah, very happy
to be home briefly.
Sam Miklos (01:52):
I love that.
Thank you, so home for you isCairns at the minute.
Kate Coomber (01:58):
Yeah, it's Cairns or Gimli.
Sam Miklos (01:59):
Yes and you've just come back, so tell us about
where you've been in the lastfew months.
David Maxwell (02:05):
At present I'm working in Bamaga, which is in
the northern peninsula area,which is basically from above
Mossman, sort of Hopevale, allthe way up to the tip of
(02:26):
Australia on Queensland side,and I'm working at the moment
for Queensland Health in theirrelief pool in a primary health
care centre.
Kate Coomber (02:32):
Yeah, and can you maybe paint a bit of a picture
of what that's like and see thatit's very, very far north.
What's?
Sam Miklos (02:39):
a day.
Look like you know what's a dayin the life of that role.
David Maxwell (02:45):
Oh, it's mostly standard sort of health checks,
primary health care.
We do have a hospital.
We're one of the two facilitiesin the Northern Peninsula area
that are lucky to have ahospital.
Ours is the closest.
It's literally, you know, twominutes down the road drive.
So in my present role I don'tsee an awful lot of emergencies.
(03:08):
Yeah, because we have a.
We have a Queensland ambulanceservice that's attached to the
hospital there and that sort ofthing, but it's basically
basically dealing with theday-to-day.
I'm now moved into a role whereI'm still learning about
chronic disease, so I'm managingportfolios around sort of the
(03:29):
renal, the cardiovascular andthe RHD rheumatic heart disease.
That is in which I'mresponsible, not solely but as
one of the nurses.
I was there for the last threemonths.
I was pretty much on my own, sodoing sort of stepping across
(03:49):
two roles, and was the onlynurse really responsible for
giving the bisulin injections inthat facility and then had to
enlist the help of others eitherthe hospital or other nurses in
different fields, like thediabetes educator, to help me
(04:09):
when people didn't want to comeand see me.
Sam Miklos (04:11):
Yeah, yeah, and what's Bamaga like for people
who've never been?
David Maxwell (04:15):
there.
Sam Miklos (04:18):
Which is probably many.
David Maxwell (04:20):
It's like nowhere I've ever been.
It's beautiful.
The NPA, where I am, consistsof five communities, so Bamaga
is the biggest, which I justthought was another lovely name.
But since being there I'velearned it's actually a person's
name and it was created withpermission of the local
(04:41):
Aboriginal people when 76 yearsago the start of the sinking of
side by basically started tosink yeah, I mean, it probably
didn't start 76 years ago, butat that time it was a critical
point and um, a group of peoplefrom side by left in canoes and
came to Bamaga and the gentlemanwho led that was named Bamaga
(05:11):
and it was.
Then they gave him this part ofland and it was named after him
and his grandson is still alivetoday.
He's 78.
I saw him before I left andhe's the last survivor that I
know of that came in that canoe76 years ago.
Kate Coomber (05:31):
How incredible, how incredible.
I love that.
You obviously have a realthirst for knowledge and really
want to understand where you'reworking and understand
everything you possibly canabout the place, the people and
the community.
I think that that's somethingthat the team have really
commented on.
In your work that you do, Iguess, take us back to earlier
(05:53):
in your career, I guess did youalways want to be a nurse.
How did that start out?
Where was home and you knowwhere you finally are today.
Sam Miklos (06:06):
Home originally as you might be able to tell is
england, yeah, um, I was bornthere.
David Maxwell (06:10):
Um, I came to australia in 95.
It's one of those uh, sad andsad, but um productive because
I'm still here love stories thatdidn't quite turn out yeah um,
so I I didn't come here as anurse.
I had no intention of cominghere as a nurse in 95 were you
qualified as a nurse?
(06:30):
though I qualified as a nurse inaustralia right and so I
actually studied in between 2006and 2011 in lismore, new south
wales, yeah, at summer, plus uni, right.
So that came about by.
I say, my previous career washospitality events and that sort
(06:51):
of stuff and I was, um, itchingfor a break.
Shall we say yeah, yeah, um.
And it actually came about, uh,through an associate professor
I was playing rugby with by thename of Professor John Stevens
and we got talking about youknow what else I could do, and
(07:14):
he suggested nursing and we wereplaying rugby together and I
actually broke my neck.
Oh, wow.
And was flown up to Brisbane andin those days they had the hard
collars and they put on thehard collar and I was getting
increasing pain down my rightshoulder and they padded it.
(07:37):
They'd given me a lot ofmorphine and I wasn't really
working and I was still awake.
And they were quite surprised,really working, and I was still
awake and they were quitesurprised.
And so when I got to RoyalBrisbane that was a Saturday
afternoon, that happened Sundaymorning the consultant came and
saw me and said you know, you'vegot a stable spiral fracture in
and out.
(07:57):
It was a c6 fracture, nodeficit, and still had the hard
collar on.
And I I said to him I've gotthis pain and tingling down my
right arm and he said, oh, it'sprobably, you know, just the
injury.
And I said, okay, he said he'dwait and see if it dissipated
and I just had this feeling itwas the collar.
(08:19):
But everyone back then wasreally reluctant.
We're not.
So it's changed the managementof neck injuries now.
but then it was put the collaron and don't touch it until we
absolutely have to.
And the male nurse, funnyenough, came in and I said look,
this collar's really giving mea problem.
And he'd been there and heardthat I had a stable fracture so
(08:43):
there was really no danger.
He said I'll go and see if Ican find a soft collar.
And so he went away and cameback and, funnily enough, I
don't know if I knew his name,to be honest, because he was in
and out and he went down and hefound a soft collar and I said,
look, I'll take responsibility,but if it's stable it should be
fine.
And he took off the hard collarand slipped this one on, and as
(09:06):
soon as he did that, all thefeeling came back to my arm and
it would be pressing on a note.
Yeah, um, and just after that,with the conversations I'd had
with um John Stevens, I thoughtyou know this is this is
probably what I want to do.
You know, I made that littlebit of a difference.
Um, I'd been sort of on theother side of the schedule with
applying people with alcohol ordoing them not to behave in pubs
(09:29):
and things like that, yeah,yeah.
(09:32):
And.
David Maxwell (09:32):
I felt it was enjoyable.
I did that on both sides of theplanet, if you like, england,
and here for about 10, 15 years,and then I just decided you
know it's time to do somethingdifferent, and I felt something
that would make a difference,really.
So I ended up studying.
(09:53):
I started in 2006 and my mumwas ill then, so I got
interrupted.
I went over to be with herbriefly, which extended it a
year, and I came back.
Then I decided to go to Norwayas part of my course.
So I went to Stavanger in Norwayand that, uh, when I went, I
(10:14):
was told don't worry, it'll allstill align up and it'll, it'll
be fine.
Yeah, um, unfortunately itdidn't when I came back, so that
extended that by a year andthen I failed.
A couple of things as you dowhen you're at uni and having
fun.
So it ended up five years tofully complete the degree and
(10:35):
then I, pretty much from then,went rural and back then in 2011
, you know people were like, oh,don't go rural, it'll wreck
your career.
You know you want to go to abig hospital and get all the
experience, but it was actuallya really eye-opening experience,
both you know for for my psycheand seeing parts of australia
(10:57):
that I I never imagined, and myfirst point of call was broken
hill and will canyaanya in NewSouth Wales, and you know it was
amazing.
Uh, the welcome was amazing, um, the learning was steep um, but
you know it was.
It was really rewarding andlearning how to interact
(11:17):
differently.
I I quickly learned, uh, veryearlier on, being in that sort
of you're 200 kilometres awayfrom your nearest hospital.
So we were also the ambulance aswell.
We had other people driving,but we were actually trained up
to use the ambulance and do allthat sort of thing, and Royal
Flying Doctors used to fly inwhen they could or we'd do 100
(11:40):
kilometre each way.
You know mid-road transfershalfway.
We'd meet a Broken Hillambulance halfway down transfer
and it's lay-by.
And you know mid-road transfershalfway.
We'd meet a Broken Hillambulance halfway down transfer
and it's lay-by and you know dothose sorts of things.
Sam Miklos (11:51):
So it was yeah, it was really, you know, really
turned your perspective on yourhead if you like, Because that's
I was just going to say,because that's very early to go
remote.
Kate Coomber (12:02):
Yeah, like a lot of people.
What prompted you to wantthat's very early to go remote,
like a lot of people prompted?
What prompted you to yeah?
David Maxwell (12:05):
to actually do that uh well, for me it was how
far could I go?
You know, it's like iforiginally, I guess in my head
in an idyllic way, I was like,oh, I could be a nurse and then,
you know, when I get trainedlater on, I can go and help in
disasters and do all this sortof thing, um, and so I thought,
oh well, if I'm gonna be a nurse, how far can I go with with my
(12:27):
placement?
So I actually went um in 2008,while I was still at uni, was
the first placement um in brokenhill and wilcannia, and I had a
very supportive boss.
So when I graduated in 2011, Iasked you know, would they have
me back applied?
And they said, yes, I went back.
(12:49):
And so as a new grad inWilcannia, I was very well
supported.
I wasn't left out on my own.
Yes, there were ups and downs,but there was the support there
and because it was close by yougenerally had you know a doctor
who stayed around back then andyou had senior nurses in the
(13:10):
community you could call ifsomething really went wrong.
But I was quite lucky there.
We didn't get too much traumaand that sort of thing, despite
the fact we were on a major roadhighway.
Well, kenya used to be known asthe Paris of the West.
Sam Miklos (13:25):
Oh, wow, I've not heard it be known as the Paris
of the West.
David Maxwell (13:28):
Oh wow, I've not heard it referred to as the
Paris of the West.
Yeah, it used to have paddlesteamers going up and down all
the way down the Darling Yep andthe old bridge at Wilcannia
used to have a drawbridge sortof thing that lifted up.
Sam Miklos (13:42):
Oh wow.
David Maxwell (13:43):
It would lift up in the middle and the paddle
steamers would go along.
That was when the water wasflowing, which doesn't happen
quite as regularly now.
Sam Miklos (13:51):
Like Tower Bridge in London.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sort of.
David Maxwell (13:54):
But it was a straight sort of up like that in
the middle.
Kate Coomber (13:57):
I read I think it's Sarah Donnelly's book where
she was a teacher who went toWilcannia and she talked a lot
about the water when it flowsand didn't.
Yeah, you know the communityand oh, very different yeah.
David Maxwell (14:11):
When the water's flowing, it's a very different,
vibrant community as to when youknow the water's dried up.
And yeah, there's some amazingpictures of people, just you
know, walking in the riverbankwith just puddles and stuff like
that.
Sam Miklos (14:31):
Yeah, it's uh, yeah, it's very different aspect.
You've, um, you've reallylanded on your feet in in rural
and remote, like straight upfrom the outset, which it often
takes other people, you know, agood couple of years to get
there.
What would, I guess, in termsof tell us about some of the
communities that you've had thebiggest impact on, and probably
those really memorable ones thathave really stayed with you?
David Maxwell (14:49):
I think pretty much all of them I've had.
I've been to in differentplaces.
I've worked as a RAN Well,kenya.
I was a registered nurse thereobviously not quite a.
Ran at sort of two years out.
I then went from there to aplace called Bell Reynolds,
where it was like a doctor oncall um and you had to always
(15:10):
explain to people why you had aVictorian um dialing code even
though you were still in NewSouth Wales, and why you wanted
to send people to Swan.
Hill and not somewhere else, youknow.
So that was quite funny.
But yeah, I think I think thething about it is each one's
taught me something different, Isay in Wilcannia, first up was
(15:31):
the perspective of you know, youcome out of uni, you're all
very keen.
I was lucky enough, like I hadgood mentors and I was able to
relate with the community andlearn very quickly that what
you've learned and what you'recapable of isn't the most
important thing.
Yes, you have to be safe.
Yes, you have to have theskills, but it's actually more
(15:54):
about understanding people andwhere they're coming from and
what it is they want, ratherthan you know they, they I think
they always say that you know,some of the nurses that go
remote are like we're going tosave you, the saviours or
whatever, and it really is justletting all that go.
I mean, it's a practice.
It's a practice ongoing,because we kind of go oh, I've
(16:17):
given you this information andthis could help you and do this,
but at the end of the day, youdon't want to or it's not your
priority.
You know somebody's obligationto their family or the caring
responsibilities is moreimportant than their own health,
um, and it's.
It's sometimes difficult tograsp that.
But it's about trying tounderstand that and letting it
(16:40):
go and and just every everytime's a fresh time, and now,
sort of 11 years down the roador 12 years down the road, I
just say to people okay, this is, I, explain who I am, how long
I'm there, for I think that'salways important you're saying
about you know what could I sayto other people?
I think it's very important whenyou go into the communities to
(17:02):
a give people choice.
Sometimes you don't have thatif you're the only nurse.
I've tended to stay away fromthe single nurse post because I
think for me, I wanted thatsupport.
I wanted that um knowledge andand um ability to be mentored,
whether it's by health workersor other nurses, so that you're
not fatiguing.
Yeah, um, which is important,but it's, it's that um, it's
(17:28):
that thing of okay, here I am,I'm here.
My name's david, I'm here, I'ma nurse.
This is my history so when Iwas in the nt sorry, I'm jumping
around- love it it was.
It was the four f's, and Ialways forget one.
So they thought that footy,family, friends and fishing,
(17:48):
there we go, I got it this time.
There you go you got it in onehit.
So that's your point of contact.
So where you start as a nurseis introducing yourself to that
person, telling them whereyou're from, because you're on
their country and what yourheritage is.
This is my personal thing.
I'm not saying that everybodyshould do this, but I've found
(18:10):
it works for me and so they geta sense of where you're from.
You tell them how long you'regoing to be in their community
and you give them that choice,because a lot of time people
don't want to see a stranger.
They don't want to go over thatstory over and over again.
Yeah, um, necessarily, um.
So if you give them that choiceand then they go, no, it's all
(18:31):
right, I'll see you.
Yeah, and that's a, that's areal privilege when you really
know nothing in that sense ofwhere you are, how the dynamic
is and and the ins and outs ofthe protocols or even that sort
of thing.
It's just trying to learn.
The other thing now I'vedeveloped in saying is you know,
please, I'm here to learn, so Idon't know your culture, I know
(18:55):
little bits, but please educateme.
Let me know if I say somethingwrong or ask you a question that
may be deemed inappropriate, sothat I can learn and better my
practice.
Um, and a little thing aboutthat is is one thing that came
out of that is especiallysomewhere in the territories.
It's not so much where I'm now,but there are places where,
(19:17):
even when you've got a couple in, you can't ask them about
providing a sample in front oftheir partner.
Yeah, yeah.
So I, I got told luckily, I wastold that by a very lovely man
and he said look, you can't saythat.
Yeah, so you literally just goand get the pot, put it in the
brown bag everybody knows whatit's for and you hand it there
(19:38):
and say can you do that for me?
Yeah, you don't actually talkabout what it is, because in
certain places that's notacceptable, yeah, yeah.
So it's just things thatrejigging and, I guess,
self-reflection in those termsof what we think is day-to-day,
(20:02):
which in all these differentcultures cultures, because there
are many around this country-that's what I was going to add
yeah, just completely, you justwouldn't even think of it.
Kate Coomber (20:11):
Yeah, you can't assume, can you you've, you've
got to kind of go in with anopen mindset of of almost I know
nothing, tell me everything,and we were talking earlier
about that cultural awarenesspiece and it's challenging.
I think some people have talkedabout certain courses that you
can do and some upskilling inthat regard, but it really
sounds like you need to leaninto each and every community
(20:33):
and actually ask questions andbe open and authentic so that
you can really have the bestimpact you possibly can while
there.
David Maxwell (20:43):
Yeah, no, absolutely, and I think,
unfortunately, because of thesystem, we're going into places
that are short of nurses.
(20:51):
let's face it.
David Maxwell (20:52):
You know we're filling a gap, a need, because
people don't want to necessarilybe there, that local community,
the local health workers, eventhe driver.
You know it doesn't reallymatter to ask those questions.
You know it's very strange tome in the territory.
(21:13):
You know, in certain placeswhen somebody dies, depending on
their standing in the community, they shut the shop.
Yeah, you know, and it was likewhat the shop shut.
Yeah, yeah, no, so-and-so'spassed and we're shut in the
shop and you know the clinic'sgoing to be shut, or you know a
lot of times now.
(21:33):
They'll allow the clinic tokeep going, but all the
Indigenous staff will go home asa sign of respect.
So it's okay for the outsidersto keep working, but the
Indigenous staff will go home incertain places.
(21:49):
And it's just like, like you know, when you landed there and
you don't really know something,you're like I'll pop up to the
shop and get something and theygo no, it's shut.
David Maxwell (21:55):
Yeah, you know, um, or or for other reasons, you
know the way where thingshappen culturally and they close
the shop, yeah, and it's likeokay, if you haven't got food,
you just, you know, I've got abig enough belly that I can
manage for a day or two.
Kate Coomber (22:11):
Yeah, you can survive.
David Maxwell (22:15):
Yeah, it is those sorts of things and it's really
, it's a privilege to be allowedinto those communities, I think
, being mindful of the fact thatwe are guests.
Also, you know, taking intoaccount, you know places where
(22:35):
I've worked, where overcrowdingis rife, which we know in
communities, and we step in andstep off a plane and you get the
use of a car and you get atwo-bedroom house to yourself or
a single-bedroom unit.
I was in a three-bedroom houseliving next to people who had 20
people in a two-bedroom housein the Territory, and so, being
(22:59):
conscious of that andunderstanding that, oh yeah, the
environs are challenging, butwe're blessed.
We really are blessed you know,and I hear a lot of people
complaining about oh, it's notenough money, all the conditions
are this or the dogs arebarking all night and this, and
(23:19):
that you know someone's partyingdown the road.
And I get that because you knowwe do have to get up and we
have to go to work.
But what you have to understandis the rest of the people have
to deal with this when we'vegone when you're gone.
This isn't something thatthey've cooked up to upset us.
Kate Coomber (23:38):
This is the way the communities live, you know.
David Maxwell (23:41):
A lot of places when it gets really hot, no one
gets up in the day and they getup at night and they basically
live their life back to frontbecause it's too hot.
Sam Miklos (23:51):
Yeah, you've also been.
I mean, you've been so involvedin the communities you've
worked in and is it true that inone of the communities you were
offered was it a permanent roleor a longer term role and you
actually went and spoke to theelders in the community to see
if you had their blessing?
Is that correct?
David Maxwell (24:07):
That is actually correct.
Sam Miklos (24:09):
Tell us about that.
David Maxwell (24:12):
So that was in Nooka.
You guys had sent me there as aran and the possibility came up
to have, you know, a full-timerole.
Yeah, and we had.
I can't remember how it cameabout, but there was a.
(24:35):
I think it was just people saidsearch about the Arts Centre
and look about something youknow.
It was an off-the-cuff commentand they said, oh, go and look
at this video about the ArtsCentre and in that there was a
lady from Nooka who was I betternot say her name, just in case
she's no longer with us.
Yes, but she was talking aboutthe structure and the cultural
(25:00):
structure and she described, youknow, the proper way of doing
things and the fact that there'sthis sort of three-tier system,
if you like, of elders that youhad to go and talk to if you
wanted to do something in thecommunity.
You needed to get thesepeople's permissions and at the
time I hadn't I'd met some ofthose people but didn't know I'd
(25:23):
met them because I wasn'tintroduced to them Anyway.
So I did some research whenthis came up and the opportunity
I think when I was working withJanine to be there, and so now
I knew these people, I went andasked and I went and saw the
different levels and said, look,there's a possibility, I'm
going to apply for a job hereand want to stay, Is it okay?
(25:47):
One of them I treated like theday before and the other people
and they was like you know,we're happy to have you in your
community and I said you knowI'll be applying, but I wanted
to talk to you first and andgenerally when I go to places
anyway, I try to seek out eitherthe you know, local land
(26:10):
council, if you like, or someonean elder in the community and
introduce myself.
Sometimes that's done for you,but generally I think it's
important to just go out and sayhello, whether it's a council
office, and say I'm your newnurse.
You know I might only be herefor two weeks, they'll know
you're there, but it's justmaking that difference and
reaching out to them office andsay I'm your new nurse.
Yeah, you know I might only behere for two weeks, that they'll
know you're there, but it'sjust making that difference and
(26:31):
reaching out to them.
I found really good and and thewelcome was great and I stayed,
I think ended up there 15months and in working there and
it was a hectic place, fivehours drive from Catherine, I
think, yeah, um, so you know.
but it was, it was it wasenjoyable and I tend to measure
(26:54):
my, my contributions.
I think going back to leadingback to that question about the
impact is less about what I dobut how community relates to me.
So I'd be lucky enough that,say, you work in the Territory,
you go to Darwin or you go toCatherine.
If you're working in, you know,Mount Isa, I think, another
(27:15):
place you sent me you go to theshop and stuff.
It's how the people you'vetreated react to you when you're
out on the street or when theysee you in somewhere else.
And for me I always say topeople I have a saying that says
you know, if they're notthrowing stones at me, then I
think I've done it right, Iguess with that notion are there
(27:36):
places?
Kate Coomber (27:37):
and sometimes you go on contract when maybe it
just isn't right and it's notthe right fit.
David Maxwell (27:42):
Yeah, I think it is.
There are, I mean, and it'sabout being aware, you know, and
I think part of that is thatconnection and talking to people
about what it is they want.
I think a lot of us, you know,we've gone to university, we've
spent all that time, we've gotall this knowledge and we know
what's what, but really we don'tin that respect.
(28:06):
So I think I've been to placeswhere certain say visiting
specialists will get no one intheir clinic, you know, and
certain other professionals willfind it hard to get people in,
(28:28):
you know, for certain things.
Sam Miklos (28:31):
Why is that?
David Maxwell (28:33):
Well, it's, you know it's about, like I say,
it's about the connection.
If you're approaching stufffrom a point of view of you know
I've got the knowledge, youknow you need to listen to me.
It's not going to work.
When I was leaving uni to givean analogy of this story, one of
, after I left uni and had beento wilcannia um and this was in
(28:57):
my first year which impactedthis um quite a lot one of the
lecturers who I didn't know haddone a survey in the indigenous
college in Southern Cross inLismore about the understanding
of diabetics, about theirillness.
Because there was thisperception in the medical
profession oh they don't know,you know that we've got to chop
(29:17):
off a toe, then we've got tochop off a foot, then we've got
to chop off a leg, so theymustn't know.
You know, understand, and whathe found in his research?
That they understood very wellthat they'd seen it all, that
they'd had relatives from doingthat and all this sort of thing.
But they were looking at whatpleasures can I get out of life
(29:40):
and making choices like the restof us.
Because, let's face it,antibiotic resistance didn't
start with the indigenouscommunity.
I know I'm still doing that youknow, I feel that I don't think
I'll finish the course, or Ileft them at home and you know,
so it was that, thatunderstanding that people
actually knew more about theirillnesses probably than their
(30:01):
own health professionals, butthe way we talked to them about
it made it seem that they didn't.
And so once you start toactually listen, it made it seem
that they didn't.
And so once you start toactually listen to people and
understand that for them it'sless about what you're telling
them Sometimes it's a healthliteracy thing, but sometimes
it's.
I've got more important thingsto deal with.
(30:21):
This isn't, this isn't mypriority.
You know, and certainly justrecently where I have, I've seen
that with um people, a coupleof people with um coming home to
pass away you know, that thatis a major priority.
Everything centers around thatand stops for that, and you know
(30:43):
everything else.
You know I don't have anappointment.
You know I've got anappointment for my heart.
No, I've got to cook a meal formy uncle who's 90.
Yeah, you know.
And you go off and you seesomeone and they're like no, no,
I'm not coming to thatappointment.
You go okay, that's all right,I'm not going to give you a hard
time, just let us know whenyou're ready and when you're
(31:15):
back, and I think that's that'sthe hardest thing for us as
health professionals becauseeven the ones like myself, with
the best intentions not that Ialways have the best intentions
I say but you know it's that,but I, but I know this will help
yes.
I know this this could make adifference and it's like, yeah,
but that's not the thing.
What's going to make adifference for this person now
is kind of saying I'm here whenyou're ready to come back.
Kate Coomber (31:35):
Yeah.
David Maxwell (31:41):
You know, or even giving little kids who've been
brought in for their jab andhave no choice about having the
jab, letting them say which armdo you want it in?
You get little kids go what youknow.
And I look at their parents andthey say which arm do you want
it in?
You get little kids go what?
And I look at their parents andthey yeah, which arm?
You know you're going to havethe injection because mum says
so.
Sam Miklos (31:53):
Yeah yeah, but where do you want it?
That's the right.
A little bit of control overthe outcome too.
David Maxwell (31:57):
And it's those things.
It's about giving peopleoptions when they have none, and
that leads into what you'retalking about with the male
female.
Kate Coomber (32:06):
I was just going to say you know and we know that
men's health I guess is, youknow, important to you.
You came and spoke to the teamlast year and we mentioned in
the intro you launched theinitiative, Planet Prostate.
I guess I'd love to hear alittle bit about that initiative
and what you hope to achieve,but potentially also the impact
(32:27):
that you can have being a malenurse in some of these
communities.
You talked earlier about the,maybe the, the men's business,
the women's business and andobviously having that, that
different person there who canadd to the community yeah, I
mean it is.
David Maxwell (32:43):
It's.
It's a case of sometimes you'vegot to use the facilities you
have.
So let's face it there's veryfew male rams.
There's probably even fewermale midwives but they do exist.
I listened to a great podcastfrom a guy who's in Arnhem Land
somewhere and you know it tookhim two or three years, he says,
(33:05):
but you know he worked at itand now they're kind of no, we
want him.
Yeah, yeah, I bet I bet, and youknow I've had instances where
I've been, shall we say, caughtoff guard by the willingness to
sort of show their injury orsomething, without kind of
warning.
Sam Miklos (33:25):
You know it's like well, all right babe, all right,
we're here, you could have satdown first and described
something you know.
David Maxwell (33:32):
Hello, I'm David.
You know that's surprising attimes but generally I've found,
to be honest, the best.
I guess the best way ofapproaching it is again going
back to that.
Are you happy to see me?
You know, there's been timeswhere I've got.
You know, obviously, being anolder man, I didn't always have
(33:53):
the beard, so I could get awaywith looking a bit younger.
(33:55):
Now they're going.
Oh, you're an older man.
David Maxwell (33:58):
Which is kind of good because they don't feel
like I'm a lot younger than I am.
So it's getting.
You know, you get, say, a 25,30-year-old woman in and you say
, are you happy to see me?
And they go, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you go in and you start todo their obs and you just notice
that they're not connecting.
(34:18):
They're feeling like you know,there's body language.
Not that I'm a great believerin body language of its own, but
it is very important incommunities.
In fact, they express that bodylanguage is more important than
talking in a lot of ways.
And so you just go.
You know, are you really happyto see me?
(34:41):
You know I've got there's alady down the hall, I can get
her to see you.
And they go oh, no, it's right.
(34:49):
And I go yeah, I know it's right.
David Maxwell (34:51):
And I go yeah, I know it's right, but you have
the choice and then they mightgo okay, I'll see the lady, but
in certain places I've been toldyou can't do that you know
you're the nurse just tell themyou're their nurse.
Yeah, and I think that's part ofthe problem that happens with
with health is we're vulnerable,all of us.
When we go in, we're looking toour health professional to
(35:11):
provide answers, to providesupport, but the dynamic is
skewed.
You know you're unwell oryou're feeling off thing.
You know you're vulnerable.
Someone could say like youcould have done this better.
Or you know why didn't you takeyour tablets?
it's like what's gone before isgone.
You know, okay, you didn't youtake your tablets.
It's like what's gone before isgone.
You know, okay, you didn't takeyour tablets.
(35:31):
Okay, this is what we need todo with it.
We need to explain to you.
Maybe you know, if you'dfinished the course, we wouldn't
have this.
You know we do this a lot withthe sores and the bisulin, Is it
?
The choices for that treatmentare either a bisulin injection
or a course of syrup for kids.
And so I try to say to theparents are you sure they're
(35:54):
going to take five or seven daysof syrup?
If they're not, I know it'spainful and I know it's
traumatic for the child, butgive them a bisulin because it's
done, it's over with, it shoulddo its job and, more
importantly, it's quicker toprotect against something like
rheumatic heart.
(36:14):
So it's those kind of choicesand dealing with those sorts of
things where the difference ismade in increments.
There's going to be people whomay not like you for being there
, but let's face it.
As RANS and primary healthcarecare nurses, our job is to do
our job so well that we're notneeded.
(36:35):
We're always going to be needed.
But the primary health careprinciples is that that all goes
back eventually to communityand becomes community controlled
and organized and whatever.
But that has its problems andI've been in places where people
say we're glad you're herebecause so-and-so won't talk to
so-and-so, so if you're not herethen that person doesn't get
(36:56):
treatment in extreme cases.
But on the other hand, you knowthere's places where there are
those cultural barriers butpeople understand that if
there's no one else you've gotto kind of deal with that.
You know I I will say I won'tdo an ecg on you unless it's a
life-threatening yeah thing.
(37:16):
It's not life-threatening, youjust need a routine ecg.
I'll get you a lady, yeah.
But if you drop on the floorand you need, you need um, you
know, advanced life supportwe're gonna do it, but it's then
also how you do that if there'ssomebody there, you can get
them.
You know advanced life support,you know I'm going to do it, but
it's then also how you do thatIf there's somebody there, you
can get them.
You know, literally speaking,to lift up their relative's
breast and you can put the dotson, and you can do all that
(37:38):
without actually being tooinvasive.
Make sure they're covered.
You don't just rip things offand you know it's just a
different way, where you knowyou'd see in a normal hospital.
Oh, it's an emergency, we'llcut the clothes off.
Sam Miklos (37:49):
Yeah, yeah.
David Maxwell (37:51):
You don't kind of do that and I've had people say
you're not cutting this shirtoff.
It's my best shirt.
Sam Miklos (37:56):
Yes, yes.
Okay, this is going to hurtbecause I've got to get it off.
Yeah, yeah.
David Maxwell (38:03):
So it's those things.
It's just vastly different.
Kate Coomber (38:08):
So many stories.
I think if other healthcareprofessionals were listening and
really enjoying hearing thedifferences between different
communities, but also just thedifferent line of work that you
can have, what sort of advicewould you give to people who are
considering is that the line ofwork for them?
David Maxwell (38:31):
You have to be flexible, which doesn't always
work, but you have to try.
You know, open to change it's.
You know little things aredifferent, like the way, small
things, like going rural, it'skind of like going into a
religious community in certainways, and I'll make that clear
(38:54):
in dress.
You know we come and we're frombeach suburbs and do this, and
you know we're runners and thisand that we go in in these tight
little shorts and little vestsand we're running around and
it's like you don't do that.
You know people do, but you knowpeople do, but you know they go
.
Why is everyone staring at me?
You know, and you go um, andand this happened when I was, uh
(39:17):
, when I was um going to brokenhill, I had a friend actually we
went.
We both went out to broken hillin different places well,
canyon, broken hill.
And I said to her you know,I've been out there before, you
need to.
You know, when you go to theswimming pool you need a rashie
on, you know, and she was likeoh no, and she's a surfer chick
and we're still friends today.
And she went to the poolwithout all that.
(39:40):
And she came back she saideveryone's staring at us.
I said I told you you've got toput a shirt on.
You might have a bikini on, butyou put a shirt on.
If you haven't got a raffia,you put it on.
Yeah, now, nowadays, you know 12, 15 years later you go to
broken hill woolies and peopleare wandering around in in
bikinis now, but back then in2008, it was a bit different.
Kate Coomber (40:00):
I still find it weird because broken hill's
miles from the sea but anyway, Iwas thinking, why are they in
bikinis in broken Hill?
David Maxwell (40:08):
It's the tourists , though they come through and
you know it's hot, yeah, and youknow I've got my bikini on and.
I'm going shopping.
It's like it's not Byron Day,yeah, yeah, you can get away
from it.
Sam Miklos (40:17):
No it totally isn't David?
Can I ask a little bit moreabout Planet Prostate?
You know that's um for you tohave launched that initiative
yourself.
Like what tell us about that?
Like what do you hope toachieve with that?
David Maxwell (40:32):
um well it's going to be a slow uphill climb
I know that so the idea ofplanet prostate was to raise
money and awareness.
Um, I must say that, um, Ithink even when I spoke to you
guys it was.
It became less about the moneyand more about the awareness.
(40:54):
Prostate cancer is a widespreaddiagnosed cancer for men.
It's also a double-edged sword,because it's one of those
cancers that people say youdon't die from it.
In general, you die with it,which is true in a lot of cases.
But there's those small amountof cases where, um, you know it,
(41:14):
it has a major effect andobviously, like breast cancer,
it's a family-wide effect.
You know, um, and the thingabout that is the.
The guidelines in general inthe greater population are like
don't test because we only findone or two people, that's fine,
(41:34):
but when you're in a rural area,one or two people is a big
impact compared to, like, a city.
So for me, going through it asa health professional, I found
bewildering, challenging attimes and with someone who has
that health literacy, I alsobegan to realize that,
(41:57):
comparatively, and two gene,which is a, a potential cause
for breast cancer, it's also apotential cause for some
(42:21):
prostate cancers.
Wow, and we, we do all thisbreast screening and we find
people with breast cancer.
And that didn't seem.
I couldn't seem to find any waythat we were then saying you
need to talk to your brother oryour son because you've had
breast cancer, so that he getschecked earlier than the
(42:42):
guidelines, because there's apotential and vice versa that if
someone's got prostate cancerlike myself, you know, then I
need to talk to a sister.
If I had, or even my niece, youknow.
So for me, my dad had it andthat's what he passed from.
(43:05):
If I get it, you know, I thinkI'm twice as likely to get it if
I'm right with the figures IfI've had a relative, close
relative, get it, because myselfand my dad have got it.
My brother is three times aslikely to get it, but he's had a
different type of cancer, soI'm actually the last in the
(43:27):
family of four to get thecancers.
Sam Miklos (43:29):
But anyway, that's another story.
David Maxwell (43:33):
Must have been all the hospitality days?
Sam Miklos (43:36):
I think it is, it is and it's a lot of.
David Maxwell (43:39):
To be honest, as a for me I I also believe in the
sort of psychosocial of ofhealth as well.
You know there's more to itthan social, emotional and
psychosocial causes and holdingthings in.
You know um resentments, allthese sorts of things.
You know I I do read a bit oflouise hay, if you're aware.
Sam Miklos (43:59):
Yes, I am aware of her writing on the mirror the
affirmations and all of theaffirmations and stuff you know
it's.
David Maxwell (44:06):
it's not about being a be all and end all, but
it's.
It's about taking a multitudeof things and picking what works
for you out of little things.
But coming back toate, it wasthat speaking to my cancer nurse
, I think they said at the timethere were maybe 12 or 14
prostate cancer nurses dottedaround and in Cairns there's two
(44:31):
nurses that job share and theyhave possibly 300 clients in the
far north Queensland and so theidea of Planet Prostate was to
raise awareness, get peopletalking, hopefully raise funds
as well.
It hit a bit of a snag becauseI got the blessing of the
(44:54):
Prostate Cancer Foundation ofAustralia and I was also working
with a small charity here.
But there's all these rulesabout doing raffles and things
like that and as a small charityyou're unable to do a
nationwide raffle because youhave to have financial
footprints in the states thatyou're doing it right, or at
(45:17):
least be with like acommonwealth bank or you know,
anda bank.
So these are all things that Ilearned, but the whole thing is
about raising awareness andgetting people talking about it
in the same way that we talkabout breast cancer and
eventually, hopefully, althoughit could take a while if I, if I
(45:37):
keep going getting a sort of ptest thing going on.
Yeah, you know, but my, my, myidea is is, uh, I've been
playing with ideas and this thisyear I'm trying I haven't
started yet which I should havedone um, coming up with do a dad
for for prostate, which isgoing to be hopefully donate a
dollar.
Yeah, so do a dad for prostate.
(45:59):
And then the plan with the peepsort of test thing was
eventually to make connectionswith both the nrl and the afl,
because their seasons finishroughly at the same time, not
not the, not the final stuffwhere it's really important to
people there, but generally thelast game, when they've had the
Pride round, they've had theIndigenous round, nobody has a
(46:22):
round at the bottom end.
Yeah, that's so true, it's likeyou know, it's hopefully the
bottom end for prostate, youknow and that would be our idea.
That's a good like marketing umtagline there right there and
then just to get people becausecost of living as well, you know
I I've had this discussion withthe prostate cancer foundation
(46:44):
and other charities.
You know we tend to sort of putup these things and you go on
and you get a link and it's likegive 50 or less, you know, and
so people go oh, you know,because we're not paying our
mortgages and stuff like that.
So my idea was to say, give adollar or two and to get 10,000
(47:05):
people giving a dollar or two,rather than 50 people giving $50
.
Sam Miklos (47:10):
Yeah, that's fantastic, and people won't miss
that.
David Maxwell (47:13):
So that's the idea that I'm trying to develop
and hopefully, if we can getthose codes together and other
codes.
I did try and get in touch withthe Wallabies, actually because
they had the Rugby World Cup inSeptember and I was trying
desperately to make contact withthem because one of the stand
commentators, justin Harrison,was an alumni of my university.
(47:37):
Oh, there I am.
That didn't really work, butyou know you can't expect to do
it all in the first year.
That's it.
Kate Coomber (47:46):
I have to think who do we know?
How can we connect?
Yeah, I mean, it's just aboutconnecting.
David Maxwell (47:53):
But you see, it's also difficult because what I'm
learning as well is a lot ofcharity fundraising is dependent
on individuals, so they willgive you a letter to say you can
raise money for us, but I'vegot to be very clear that I
don't work for them.
Kate Coomber (48:09):
Yeah.
David Maxwell (48:10):
And also they have ambassadors which I'd love
to approach but are kind of offlimits.
Yeah, okay, you know and allthat sort of thing.
Kate Coomber (48:19):
So yeah, so I guess today, David, when we talk
about Cornerstone bringing $500to a charity of choice today
for your participation on thepodcast, where is that money
going today?
David Maxwell (48:33):
So my choice is the local charity that helps
cancer survivors of all sorts.
It's called wellness and it hasa long history in cairns and I
believe it's on land that wasdonated by a family who
campaigned long and hard andwere instrumental in eventually
getting a cancer center that wenow have in in cairns and the
(48:57):
liz plumber cancer center.
They operate separately on ablock of land not far from where
I live and they basically umhave services.
So they've got, you know,physio, massage, um all these
sorts of different things.
They've got, um, what do youcall them?
uh god, my brain's gone sorry,therapists, yeah, you know,
(49:22):
psychologists you can access.
They run a little cafe.
It's in a very lovely little umcourtyard area.
You can hire the buildings tosupport the charity.
Um, you know, they do regularfundraising around Cairns and
because of the family linksthey've got, you know, got a
great sort of grassroots thingwith various companies around
Cairns that will do, you know,have not tip jars but have
(49:46):
donation jars for two or threecharities and local charities
and you put your bottle tops inor whatever, and now they count
them up and give to that charity.
So for me they've been veryhelpful.
Um, they were very umsupportive with the planet
prostate thing and that's asmall charity in in in a big,
(50:08):
small town in far northqueensland I think five hundred
dollars would go a long way toto them.
Um, so that's where I choose tosend the $500.
He's gratefully, uh, donatingon my behalf.
Sam Miklos (50:20):
Thank you so much, David um, we have just so
enjoyed our time with you.
You know you are such a genuinerespectful man.
You know the the work that youdo and just the effort that you
put into your community.
It just shines through so much.
And you know, at Cornerstonewe're so very grateful that
we've been able to be affiliatedwith you over the years and
(50:40):
certainly I've always loved that.
You've always given us feedbackand told us that we need to
lift the game of what we'redoing well.
And I love that about you,because you're just always
looking to leave where you'vebeen a better place.
So thank you so much for yourtime today.
(50:54):
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an episode.
Thank you.
We care for the land and sea.
We care for the energy.
We care for our community.
We care.
Welcome to it Takes Heart.
(00:21):
I'm Sam Miklos and I'm KateCoomba.
We hope you enjoy theseincredible stories of healthcare
professionals making adifference in communities across
Australia and beyond.
Through our conversations, welook to celebrate the spirit of
community and care.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land who have
long practised and sharedancient methods of healing,
providing care and support fortheir communities with wisdom
(00:44):
passed down through generations.
Kate Coomber (00:46):
Join us as we explore what it truly means to
take heart.
Sam Miklos (00:55):
Today we get to speak to remote and emergency
nurse David Maxwell.
David's been working with ourteam on and off since 2018 on a
variety of rural and remotecontract roles.
In 2023, prostate cancersurvivor, david launched a local
initiative in Cairns calledPlanet Prostate to help raise
vital funds and awareness forthe disease that impacts one in
(01:16):
five men in their lifetime.
Our team described David as adedicated nurse who makes it his
mission to fully understand theculture of every community that
he supports, and he's alwaysstraight to the point.
Welcome, david, to the it TakesHeart podcast.
Hello, thank you for having me.
Fantastic, thank you for comingDavid.
(01:36):
I guess I'd love to know go onwhat was that I'd like to say.
David Maxwell (01:41):
First, I'd like to pay respect to the elders,
past and present, on the land onwhich I am and where you are.
I'm in Gimli, on your dingycountry, and, yeah, very happy
to be home briefly.
Sam Miklos (01:52):
I love that.
Thank you, so home for you isCairns at the minute.
Kate Coomber (01:58):
Yeah, it's Cairns or Gimli.
Sam Miklos (01:59):
Yes and you've just come back, so tell us about
where you've been in the lastfew months.
David Maxwell (02:05):
At present I'm working in Bamaga, which is in
the northern peninsula area,which is basically from above
Mossman, sort of Hopevale, allthe way up to the tip of
(02:26):
Australia on Queensland side,and I'm working at the moment
for Queensland Health in theirrelief pool in a primary health
care centre.
Kate Coomber (02:32):
Yeah, and can you maybe paint a bit of a picture
of what that's like and see thatit's very, very far north.
What's?
Sam Miklos (02:39):
a day.
Look like you know what's a dayin the life of that role.
David Maxwell (02:45):
Oh, it's mostly standard sort of health checks,
primary health care.
We do have a hospital.
We're one of the two facilitiesin the Northern Peninsula area
that are lucky to have ahospital.
Ours is the closest.
It's literally, you know, twominutes down the road drive.
So in my present role I don'tsee an awful lot of emergencies.
(03:08):
Yeah, because we have a.
We have a Queensland ambulanceservice that's attached to the
hospital there and that sort ofthing, but it's basically
basically dealing with theday-to-day.
I'm now moved into a role whereI'm still learning about
chronic disease, so I'm managingportfolios around sort of the
(03:29):
renal, the cardiovascular andthe RHD rheumatic heart disease.
That is in which I'mresponsible, not solely but as
one of the nurses.
I was there for the last threemonths.
I was pretty much on my own, sodoing sort of stepping across
(03:49):
two roles, and was the onlynurse really responsible for
giving the bisulin injections inthat facility and then had to
enlist the help of others eitherthe hospital or other nurses in
different fields, like thediabetes educator, to help me
(04:09):
when people didn't want to comeand see me.
Sam Miklos (04:11):
Yeah, yeah, and what's Bamaga like for people
who've never been?
David Maxwell (04:15):
there.
Sam Miklos (04:18):
Which is probably many.
David Maxwell (04:20):
It's like nowhere I've ever been.
It's beautiful.
The NPA, where I am, consistsof five communities, so Bamaga
is the biggest, which I justthought was another lovely name.
But since being there I'velearned it's actually a person's
name and it was created withpermission of the local
(04:41):
Aboriginal people when 76 yearsago the start of the sinking of
side by basically started tosink yeah, I mean, it probably
didn't start 76 years ago, butat that time it was a critical
point and um, a group of peoplefrom side by left in canoes and
came to Bamaga and the gentlemanwho led that was named Bamaga
(05:11):
and it was.
Then they gave him this part ofland and it was named after him
and his grandson is still alivetoday.
He's 78.
I saw him before I left andhe's the last survivor that I
know of that came in that canoe76 years ago.
Kate Coomber (05:31):
How incredible, how incredible.
I love that.
You obviously have a realthirst for knowledge and really
want to understand where you'reworking and understand
everything you possibly canabout the place, the people and
the community.
I think that that's somethingthat the team have really
commented on.
In your work that you do, Iguess, take us back to earlier
(05:53):
in your career, I guess did youalways want to be a nurse.
How did that start out?
Where was home and you knowwhere you finally are today.
Sam Miklos (06:06):
Home originally as you might be able to tell is
england, yeah, um, I was bornthere.
David Maxwell (06:10):
Um, I came to australia in 95.
It's one of those uh, sad andsad, but um productive because
I'm still here love stories thatdidn't quite turn out yeah um,
so I I didn't come here as anurse.
I had no intention of cominghere as a nurse in 95 were you
qualified as a nurse?
(06:30):
though I qualified as a nurse inaustralia right and so I
actually studied in between 2006and 2011 in lismore, new south
wales, yeah, at summer, plus uni, right.
So that came about by.
I say, my previous career washospitality events and that sort
(06:51):
of stuff and I was, um, itchingfor a break.
Shall we say yeah, yeah, um.
And it actually came about, uh,through an associate professor
I was playing rugby with by thename of Professor John Stevens
and we got talking about youknow what else I could do, and
(07:14):
he suggested nursing and we wereplaying rugby together and I
actually broke my neck.
Oh, wow.
And was flown up to Brisbane andin those days they had the hard
collars and they put on thehard collar and I was getting
increasing pain down my rightshoulder and they padded it.
(07:37):
They'd given me a lot ofmorphine and I wasn't really
working and I was still awake.
And they were quite surprised,really working, and I was still
awake and they were quitesurprised.
And so when I got to RoyalBrisbane that was a Saturday
afternoon, that happened Sundaymorning the consultant came and
saw me and said you know, you'vegot a stable spiral fracture in
and out.
(07:57):
It was a c6 fracture, nodeficit, and still had the hard
collar on.
And I I said to him I've gotthis pain and tingling down my
right arm and he said, oh, it'sprobably, you know, just the
injury.
And I said, okay, he said he'dwait and see if it dissipated
and I just had this feeling itwas the collar.
(08:19):
But everyone back then wasreally reluctant.
We're not.
So it's changed the managementof neck injuries now.
but then it was put the collaron and don't touch it until we
absolutely have to.
And the male nurse, funnyenough, came in and I said look,
this collar's really giving mea problem.
And he'd been there and heardthat I had a stable fracture so
(08:43):
there was really no danger.
He said I'll go and see if Ican find a soft collar.
And so he went away and cameback and, funnily enough, I
don't know if I knew his name,to be honest, because he was in
and out and he went down and hefound a soft collar and I said,
look, I'll take responsibility,but if it's stable it should be
fine.
And he took off the hard collarand slipped this one on, and as
(09:06):
soon as he did that, all thefeeling came back to my arm and
it would be pressing on a note.
Yeah, um, and just after that,with the conversations I'd had
with um John Stevens, I thoughtyou know this is this is
probably what I want to do.
You know, I made that littlebit of a difference.
Um, I'd been sort of on theother side of the schedule with
applying people with alcohol ordoing them not to behave in pubs
(09:29):
and things like that, yeah,yeah.
(09:32):
And.
David Maxwell (09:32):
I felt it was enjoyable.
I did that on both sides of theplanet, if you like, england,
and here for about 10, 15 years,and then I just decided you
know it's time to do somethingdifferent, and I felt something
that would make a difference,really.
So I ended up studying.
(09:53):
I started in 2006 and my mumwas ill then, so I got
interrupted.
I went over to be with herbriefly, which extended it a
year, and I came back.
Then I decided to go to Norwayas part of my course.
So I went to Stavanger in Norwayand that, uh, when I went, I
(10:14):
was told don't worry, it'll allstill align up and it'll, it'll
be fine.
Yeah, um, unfortunately itdidn't when I came back, so that
extended that by a year andthen I failed.
A couple of things as you dowhen you're at uni and having
fun.
So it ended up five years tofully complete the degree and
(10:35):
then I, pretty much from then,went rural and back then in 2011
, you know people were like, oh,don't go rural, it'll wreck
your career.
You know you want to go to abig hospital and get all the
experience, but it was actuallya really eye-opening experience,
both you know for for my psycheand seeing parts of australia
(10:57):
that I I never imagined, and myfirst point of call was broken
hill and will canyaanya in NewSouth Wales, and you know it was
amazing.
Uh, the welcome was amazing, um, the learning was steep um, but
you know it was.
It was really rewarding andlearning how to interact
(11:17):
differently.
I I quickly learned, uh, veryearlier on, being in that sort
of you're 200 kilometres awayfrom your nearest hospital.
So we were also the ambulance aswell.
We had other people driving,but we were actually trained up
to use the ambulance and do allthat sort of thing, and Royal
Flying Doctors used to fly inwhen they could or we'd do 100
(11:40):
kilometre each way.
You know mid-road transfershalfway.
We'd meet a Broken Hillambulance halfway down transfer
and it's lay-by.
And you know mid-road transfershalfway.
We'd meet a Broken Hillambulance halfway down transfer
and it's lay-by and you know dothose sorts of things.
Sam Miklos (11:51):
So it was yeah, it was really, you know, really
turned your perspective on yourhead if you like, Because that's
I was just going to say,because that's very early to go
remote.
Kate Coomber (12:02):
Yeah, like a lot of people.
What prompted you to wantthat's very early to go remote,
like a lot of people prompted?
What prompted you to yeah?
David Maxwell (12:05):
to actually do that uh well, for me it was how
far could I go?
You know, it's like iforiginally, I guess in my head
in an idyllic way, I was like,oh, I could be a nurse and then,
you know, when I get trainedlater on, I can go and help in
disasters and do all this sortof thing, um, and so I thought,
oh well, if I'm gonna be a nurse, how far can I go with with my
(12:27):
placement?
So I actually went um in 2008,while I was still at uni, was
the first placement um in brokenhill and wilcannia, and I had a
very supportive boss.
So when I graduated in 2011, Iasked you know, would they have
me back applied?
And they said, yes, I went back.
(12:49):
And so as a new grad inWilcannia, I was very well
supported.
I wasn't left out on my own.
Yes, there were ups and downs,but there was the support there
and because it was close by yougenerally had you know a doctor
who stayed around back then andyou had senior nurses in the
(13:10):
community you could call ifsomething really went wrong.
But I was quite lucky there.
We didn't get too much traumaand that sort of thing, despite
the fact we were on a major roadhighway.
Well, kenya used to be known asthe Paris of the West.
Sam Miklos (13:25):
Oh, wow, I've not heard it be known as the Paris
of the West.
David Maxwell (13:28):
Oh wow, I've not heard it referred to as the
Paris of the West.
Yeah, it used to have paddlesteamers going up and down all
the way down the Darling Yep andthe old bridge at Wilcannia
used to have a drawbridge sortof thing that lifted up.
Sam Miklos (13:42):
Oh wow.
David Maxwell (13:43):
It would lift up in the middle and the paddle
steamers would go along.
That was when the water wasflowing, which doesn't happen
quite as regularly now.
Sam Miklos (13:51):
Like Tower Bridge in London.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sort of.
David Maxwell (13:54):
But it was a straight sort of up like that in
the middle.
Kate Coomber (13:57):
I read I think it's Sarah Donnelly's book where
she was a teacher who went toWilcannia and she talked a lot
about the water when it flowsand didn't.
Yeah, you know the communityand oh, very different yeah.
David Maxwell (14:11):
When the water's flowing, it's a very different,
vibrant community as to when youknow the water's dried up.
And yeah, there's some amazingpictures of people, just you
know, walking in the riverbankwith just puddles and stuff like
that.
Sam Miklos (14:31):
Yeah, it's uh, yeah, it's very different aspect.
You've, um, you've reallylanded on your feet in in rural
and remote, like straight upfrom the outset, which it often
takes other people, you know, agood couple of years to get
there.
What would, I guess, in termsof tell us about some of the
communities that you've had thebiggest impact on, and probably
those really memorable ones thathave really stayed with you?
David Maxwell (14:49):
I think pretty much all of them I've had.
I've been to in differentplaces.
I've worked as a RAN Well,kenya.
I was a registered nurse thereobviously not quite a.
Ran at sort of two years out.
I then went from there to aplace called Bell Reynolds,
where it was like a doctor oncall um and you had to always
(15:10):
explain to people why you had aVictorian um dialing code even
though you were still in NewSouth Wales, and why you wanted
to send people to Swan.
Hill and not somewhere else, youknow.
So that was quite funny.
But yeah, I think I think thething about it is each one's
taught me something different, Isay in Wilcannia, first up was
(15:31):
the perspective of you know, youcome out of uni, you're all
very keen.
I was lucky enough, like I hadgood mentors and I was able to
relate with the community andlearn very quickly that what
you've learned and what you'recapable of isn't the most
important thing.
Yes, you have to be safe.
Yes, you have to have theskills, but it's actually more
(15:54):
about understanding people andwhere they're coming from and
what it is they want, ratherthan you know they, they I think
they always say that you know,some of the nurses that go
remote are like we're going tosave you, the saviours or
whatever, and it really is justletting all that go.
I mean, it's a practice.
It's a practice ongoing,because we kind of go oh, I've
(16:17):
given you this information andthis could help you and do this,
but at the end of the day, youdon't want to or it's not your
priority.
You know somebody's obligationto their family or the caring
responsibilities is moreimportant than their own health,
um, and it's.
It's sometimes difficult tograsp that.
But it's about trying tounderstand that and letting it
(16:40):
go and and just every everytime's a fresh time, and now,
sort of 11 years down the roador 12 years down the road, I
just say to people okay, this is, I, explain who I am, how long
I'm there, for I think that'salways important you're saying
about you know what could I sayto other people?
I think it's very important whenyou go into the communities to
(17:02):
a give people choice.
Sometimes you don't have thatif you're the only nurse.
I've tended to stay away fromthe single nurse post because I
think for me, I wanted thatsupport.
I wanted that um knowledge andand um ability to be mentored,
whether it's by health workersor other nurses, so that you're
not fatiguing.
Yeah, um, which is important,but it's, it's that um, it's
(17:28):
that thing of okay, here I am,I'm here.
My name's david, I'm here, I'ma nurse.
This is my history so when Iwas in the nt sorry, I'm jumping
around- love it it was.
It was the four f's, and Ialways forget one.
So they thought that footy,family, friends and fishing,
(17:48):
there we go, I got it this time.
There you go you got it in onehit.
So that's your point of contact.
So where you start as a nurseis introducing yourself to that
person, telling them whereyou're from, because you're on
their country and what yourheritage is.
This is my personal thing.
I'm not saying that everybodyshould do this, but I've found
(18:10):
it works for me and so they geta sense of where you're from.
You tell them how long you'regoing to be in their community
and you give them that choice,because a lot of time people
don't want to see a stranger.
They don't want to go over thatstory over and over again.
Yeah, um, necessarily, um.
So if you give them that choiceand then they go, no, it's all
(18:31):
right, I'll see you.
Yeah, and that's a, that's areal privilege when you really
know nothing in that sense ofwhere you are, how the dynamic
is and and the ins and outs ofthe protocols or even that sort
of thing.
It's just trying to learn.
The other thing now I'vedeveloped in saying is you know,
please, I'm here to learn, so Idon't know your culture, I know
(18:55):
little bits, but please educateme.
Let me know if I say somethingwrong or ask you a question that
may be deemed inappropriate, sothat I can learn and better my
practice.
Um, and a little thing aboutthat is is one thing that came
out of that is especiallysomewhere in the territories.
It's not so much where I'm now,but there are places where,
(19:17):
even when you've got a couple in, you can't ask them about
providing a sample in front oftheir partner.
Yeah, yeah.
So I, I got told luckily, I wastold that by a very lovely man
and he said look, you can't saythat.
Yeah, so you literally just goand get the pot, put it in the
brown bag everybody knows whatit's for and you hand it there
(19:38):
and say can you do that for me?
Yeah, you don't actually talkabout what it is, because in
certain places that's notacceptable, yeah, yeah.
So it's just things thatrejigging and, I guess,
self-reflection in those termsof what we think is day-to-day,
(20:02):
which in all these differentcultures cultures, because there
are many around this country-that's what I was going to add
yeah, just completely, you justwouldn't even think of it.
Kate Coomber (20:11):
Yeah, you can't assume, can you you've, you've
got to kind of go in with anopen mindset of of almost I know
nothing, tell me everything,and we were talking earlier
about that cultural awarenesspiece and it's challenging.
I think some people have talkedabout certain courses that you
can do and some upskilling inthat regard, but it really
sounds like you need to leaninto each and every community
(20:33):
and actually ask questions andbe open and authentic so that
you can really have the bestimpact you possibly can while
there.
David Maxwell (20:43):
Yeah, no, absolutely, and I think,
unfortunately, because of thesystem, we're going into places
that are short of nurses.
(20:51):
let's face it.
David Maxwell (20:52):
You know we're filling a gap, a need, because
people don't want to necessarilybe there, that local community,
the local health workers, eventhe driver.
You know it doesn't reallymatter to ask those questions.
You know it's very strange tome in the territory.
(21:13):
You know, in certain placeswhen somebody dies, depending on
their standing in the community, they shut the shop.
Yeah, you know, and it was likewhat the shop shut.
Yeah, yeah, no, so-and-so'spassed and we're shut in the
shop and you know the clinic'sgoing to be shut, or you know a
lot of times now.
(21:33):
They'll allow the clinic tokeep going, but all the
Indigenous staff will go home asa sign of respect.
So it's okay for the outsidersto keep working, but the
Indigenous staff will go home incertain places.
(21:49):
And it's just like, like you know, when you landed there and
you don't really know something,you're like I'll pop up to the
shop and get something and theygo no, it's shut.
David Maxwell (21:55):
Yeah, you know, um, or or for other reasons, you
know the way where thingshappen culturally and they close
the shop, yeah, and it's likeokay, if you haven't got food,
you just, you know, I've got abig enough belly that I can
manage for a day or two.
Kate Coomber (22:11):
Yeah, you can survive.
David Maxwell (22:15):
Yeah, it is those sorts of things and it's really
, it's a privilege to be allowedinto those communities, I think
, being mindful of the fact thatwe are guests.
Also, you know, taking intoaccount, you know places where
(22:35):
I've worked, where overcrowdingis rife, which we know in
communities, and we step in andstep off a plane and you get the
use of a car and you get atwo-bedroom house to yourself or
a single-bedroom unit.
I was in a three-bedroom houseliving next to people who had 20
people in a two-bedroom housein the Territory, and so, being
(22:59):
conscious of that andunderstanding that, oh yeah, the
environs are challenging, butwe're blessed.
We really are blessed you know,and I hear a lot of people
complaining about oh, it's notenough money, all the conditions
are this or the dogs arebarking all night and this, and
(23:19):
that you know someone's partyingdown the road.
And I get that because you knowwe do have to get up and we
have to go to work.
But what you have to understandis the rest of the people have
to deal with this when we'vegone when you're gone.
This isn't something thatthey've cooked up to upset us.
Kate Coomber (23:38):
This is the way the communities live, you know.
David Maxwell (23:41):
A lot of places when it gets really hot, no one
gets up in the day and they getup at night and they basically
live their life back to frontbecause it's too hot.
Sam Miklos (23:51):
Yeah, you've also been.
I mean, you've been so involvedin the communities you've
worked in and is it true that inone of the communities you were
offered was it a permanent roleor a longer term role and you
actually went and spoke to theelders in the community to see
if you had their blessing?
Is that correct?
David Maxwell (24:07):
That is actually correct.
Sam Miklos (24:09):
Tell us about that.
David Maxwell (24:12):
So that was in Nooka.
You guys had sent me there as aran and the possibility came up
to have, you know, a full-timerole.
Yeah, and we had.
I can't remember how it cameabout, but there was a.
(24:35):
I think it was just people saidsearch about the Arts Centre
and look about something youknow.
It was an off-the-cuff commentand they said, oh, go and look
at this video about the ArtsCentre and in that there was a
lady from Nooka who was I betternot say her name, just in case
she's no longer with us.
Yes, but she was talking aboutthe structure and the cultural
(25:00):
structure and she described, youknow, the proper way of doing
things and the fact that there'sthis sort of three-tier system,
if you like, of elders that youhad to go and talk to if you
wanted to do something in thecommunity.
You needed to get thesepeople's permissions and at the
time I hadn't I'd met some ofthose people but didn't know I'd
(25:23):
met them because I wasn'tintroduced to them Anyway.
So I did some research whenthis came up and the opportunity
I think when I was working withJanine to be there, and so now
I knew these people, I went andasked and I went and saw the
different levels and said, look,there's a possibility, I'm
going to apply for a job hereand want to stay, Is it okay?
(25:47):
One of them I treated like theday before and the other people
and they was like you know,we're happy to have you in your
community and I said you knowI'll be applying, but I wanted
to talk to you first and andgenerally when I go to places
anyway, I try to seek out eitherthe you know, local land
(26:10):
council, if you like, or someonean elder in the community and
introduce myself.
Sometimes that's done for you,but generally I think it's
important to just go out and sayhello, whether it's a council
office, and say I'm your newnurse.
You know I might only be herefor two weeks, they'll know
you're there, but it's justmaking that difference and
reaching out to them office andsay I'm your new nurse.
Yeah, you know I might only behere for two weeks, that they'll
know you're there, but it'sjust making that difference and
(26:31):
reaching out to them.
I found really good and and thewelcome was great and I stayed,
I think ended up there 15months and in working there and
it was a hectic place, fivehours drive from Catherine, I
think, yeah, um, so you know.
but it was, it was it wasenjoyable and I tend to measure
(26:54):
my, my contributions.
I think going back to leadingback to that question about the
impact is less about what I dobut how community relates to me.
So I'd be lucky enough that,say, you work in the Territory,
you go to Darwin or you go toCatherine.
If you're working in, you know,Mount Isa, I think, another
(27:15):
place you sent me you go to theshop and stuff.
It's how the people you'vetreated react to you when you're
out on the street or when theysee you in somewhere else.
And for me I always say topeople I have a saying that says
you know, if they're notthrowing stones at me, then I
think I've done it right, Iguess with that notion are there
(27:36):
places?
Kate Coomber (27:37):
and sometimes you go on contract when maybe it
just isn't right and it's notthe right fit.
David Maxwell (27:42):
Yeah, I think it is.
There are, I mean, and it'sabout being aware, you know, and
I think part of that is thatconnection and talking to people
about what it is they want.
I think a lot of us, you know,we've gone to university, we've
spent all that time, we've gotall this knowledge and we know
what's what, but really we don'tin that respect.
(28:06):
So I think I've been to placeswhere certain say visiting
specialists will get no one intheir clinic, you know, and
certain other professionals willfind it hard to get people in,
(28:28):
you know, for certain things.
Sam Miklos (28:31):
Why is that?
David Maxwell (28:33):
Well, it's, you know it's about, like I say,
it's about the connection.
If you're approaching stufffrom a point of view of you know
I've got the knowledge, youknow you need to listen to me.
It's not going to work.
When I was leaving uni to givean analogy of this story, one of
, after I left uni and had beento wilcannia um and this was in
(28:57):
my first year which impactedthis um quite a lot one of the
lecturers who I didn't know haddone a survey in the indigenous
college in Southern Cross inLismore about the understanding
of diabetics, about theirillness.
Because there was thisperception in the medical
profession oh they don't know,you know that we've got to chop
(29:17):
off a toe, then we've got tochop off a foot, then we've got
to chop off a leg, so theymustn't know.
You know, understand, and whathe found in his research?
That they understood very wellthat they'd seen it all, that
they'd had relatives from doingthat and all this sort of thing.
But they were looking at whatpleasures can I get out of life
(29:40):
and making choices like the restof us.
Because, let's face it,antibiotic resistance didn't
start with the indigenouscommunity.
I know I'm still doing that youknow, I feel that I don't think
I'll finish the course, or Ileft them at home and you know,
so it was that, thatunderstanding that people
actually knew more about theirillnesses probably than their
(30:01):
own health professionals, butthe way we talked to them about
it made it seem that they didn't.
And so once you start toactually listen, it made it seem
that they didn't.
And so once you start toactually listen to people and
understand that for them it'sless about what you're telling
them Sometimes it's a healthliteracy thing, but sometimes
it's.
I've got more important thingsto deal with.
(30:21):
This isn't, this isn't mypriority.
You know, and certainly justrecently where I have, I've seen
that with um people, a coupleof people with um coming home to
pass away you know, that thatis a major priority.
Everything centers around thatand stops for that, and you know
(30:43):
everything else.
You know I don't have anappointment.
You know I've got anappointment for my heart.
No, I've got to cook a meal formy uncle who's 90.
Yeah, you know.
And you go off and you seesomeone and they're like no, no,
I'm not coming to thatappointment.
You go okay, that's all right,I'm not going to give you a hard
time, just let us know whenyou're ready and when you're
(31:15):
back, and I think that's that'sthe hardest thing for us as
health professionals becauseeven the ones like myself, with
the best intentions not that Ialways have the best intentions
I say but you know it's that,but I, but I know this will help
yes.
I know this this could make adifference and it's like, yeah,
but that's not the thing.
What's going to make adifference for this person now
is kind of saying I'm here whenyou're ready to come back.
Kate Coomber (31:35):
Yeah.
David Maxwell (31:41):
You know, or even giving little kids who've been
brought in for their jab andhave no choice about having the
jab, letting them say which armdo you want it in?
You get little kids go what youknow.
And I look at their parents andthey say which arm do you want
it in?
You get little kids go what?
And I look at their parents andthey yeah, which arm?
You know you're going to havethe injection because mum says
so.
Sam Miklos (31:53):
Yeah yeah, but where do you want it?
That's the right.
A little bit of control overthe outcome too.
David Maxwell (31:57):
And it's those things.
It's about giving peopleoptions when they have none, and
that leads into what you'retalking about with the male
female.
Kate Coomber (32:06):
I was just going to say you know and we know that
men's health I guess is, youknow, important to you.
You came and spoke to the teamlast year and we mentioned in
the intro you launched theinitiative, Planet Prostate.
I guess I'd love to hear alittle bit about that initiative
and what you hope to achieve,but potentially also the impact
(32:27):
that you can have being a malenurse in some of these
communities.
You talked earlier about the,maybe the, the men's business,
the women's business and andobviously having that, that
different person there who canadd to the community yeah, I
mean it is.
David Maxwell (32:43):
It's.
It's a case of sometimes you'vegot to use the facilities you
have.
So let's face it there's veryfew male rams.
There's probably even fewermale midwives but they do exist.
I listened to a great podcastfrom a guy who's in Arnhem Land
somewhere and you know it tookhim two or three years, he says,
(33:05):
but you know he worked at itand now they're kind of no, we
want him.
Yeah, yeah, I bet I bet, and youknow I've had instances where
I've been, shall we say, caughtoff guard by the willingness to
sort of show their injury orsomething, without kind of
warning.
Sam Miklos (33:25):
You know it's like well, all right babe, all right,
we're here, you could have satdown first and described
something you know.
David Maxwell (33:32):
Hello, I'm David.
You know that's surprising attimes but generally I've found,
to be honest, the best.
I guess the best way ofapproaching it is again going
back to that.
Are you happy to see me?
You know, there's been timeswhere I've got.
You know, obviously, being anolder man, I didn't always have
(33:53):
the beard, so I could get awaywith looking a bit younger.
(33:55):
Now they're going.
Oh, you're an older man.
David Maxwell (33:58):
Which is kind of good because they don't feel
like I'm a lot younger than I am.
So it's getting.
You know, you get, say, a 25,30-year-old woman in and you say
, are you happy to see me?
And they go, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you go in and you start todo their obs and you just notice
that they're not connecting.
(34:18):
They're feeling like you know,there's body language.
Not that I'm a great believerin body language of its own, but
it is very important incommunities.
In fact, they express that bodylanguage is more important than
talking in a lot of ways.
And so you just go.
You know, are you really happyto see me?
(34:41):
You know I've got there's alady down the hall, I can get
her to see you.
And they go oh, no, it's right.
(34:49):
And I go yeah, I know it's right.
David Maxwell (34:51):
And I go yeah, I know it's right, but you have
the choice and then they mightgo okay, I'll see the lady, but
in certain places I've been toldyou can't do that you know
you're the nurse just tell themyou're their nurse.
Yeah, and I think that's part ofthe problem that happens with
with health is we're vulnerable,all of us.
When we go in, we're looking toour health professional to
(35:11):
provide answers, to providesupport, but the dynamic is
skewed.
You know you're unwell oryou're feeling off thing.
You know you're vulnerable.
Someone could say like youcould have done this better.
Or you know why didn't you takeyour tablets?
it's like what's gone before isgone.
You know, okay, you didn't youtake your tablets.
It's like what's gone before isgone.
You know, okay, you didn't takeyour tablets.
(35:31):
Okay, this is what we need todo with it.
We need to explain to you.
Maybe you know, if you'dfinished the course, we wouldn't
have this.
You know we do this a lot withthe sores and the bisulin, Is it
?
The choices for that treatmentare either a bisulin injection
or a course of syrup for kids.
And so I try to say to theparents are you sure they're
(35:54):
going to take five or seven daysof syrup?
If they're not, I know it'spainful and I know it's
traumatic for the child, butgive them a bisulin because it's
done, it's over with, it shoulddo its job and, more
importantly, it's quicker toprotect against something like
rheumatic heart.
(36:14):
So it's those kind of choicesand dealing with those sorts of
things where the difference ismade in increments.
There's going to be people whomay not like you for being there
, but let's face it.
As RANS and primary healthcarecare nurses, our job is to do
our job so well that we're notneeded.
(36:35):
We're always going to be needed.
But the primary health careprinciples is that that all goes
back eventually to communityand becomes community controlled
and organized and whatever.
But that has its problems andI've been in places where people
say we're glad you're herebecause so-and-so won't talk to
so-and-so, so if you're not herethen that person doesn't get
(36:56):
treatment in extreme cases.
But on the other hand, you knowthere's places where there are
those cultural barriers butpeople understand that if
there's no one else you've gotto kind of deal with that.
You know I I will say I won'tdo an ecg on you unless it's a
life-threatening yeah thing.
(37:16):
It's not life-threatening, youjust need a routine ecg.
I'll get you a lady, yeah.
But if you drop on the floorand you need, you need um, you
know, advanced life supportwe're gonna do it, but it's then
also how you do that if there'ssomebody there, you can get
them.
You know advanced life support,you know I'm going to do it, but
it's then also how you do thatIf there's somebody there, you
can get them.
You know, literally speaking,to lift up their relative's
breast and you can put the dotson, and you can do all that
(37:38):
without actually being tooinvasive.
Make sure they're covered.
You don't just rip things offand you know it's just a
different way, where you knowyou'd see in a normal hospital.
Oh, it's an emergency, we'llcut the clothes off.
Sam Miklos (37:49):
Yeah, yeah.
David Maxwell (37:51):
You don't kind of do that and I've had people say
you're not cutting this shirtoff.
It's my best shirt.
Sam Miklos (37:56):
Yes, yes.
Okay, this is going to hurtbecause I've got to get it off.
Yeah, yeah.
David Maxwell (38:03):
So it's those things.
It's just vastly different.
Kate Coomber (38:08):
So many stories.
I think if other healthcareprofessionals were listening and
really enjoying hearing thedifferences between different
communities, but also just thedifferent line of work that you
can have, what sort of advicewould you give to people who are
considering is that the line ofwork for them?
David Maxwell (38:31):
You have to be flexible, which doesn't always
work, but you have to try.
You know, open to change it's.
You know little things aredifferent, like the way, small
things, like going rural, it'skind of like going into a
religious community in certainways, and I'll make that clear
(38:54):
in dress.
You know we come and we're frombeach suburbs and do this, and
you know we're runners and thisand that we go in in these tight
little shorts and little vestsand we're running around and
it's like you don't do that.
You know people do, but you knowpeople do, but you know they go
.
Why is everyone staring at me?
You know, and you go um, andand this happened when I was, uh
(39:17):
, when I was um going to brokenhill, I had a friend actually we
went.
We both went out to broken hillin different places well,
canyon, broken hill.
And I said to her you know,I've been out there before, you
need to.
You know, when you go to theswimming pool you need a rashie
on, you know, and she was likeoh no, and she's a surfer chick
and we're still friends today.
And she went to the poolwithout all that.
(39:40):
And she came back she saideveryone's staring at us.
I said I told you you've got toput a shirt on.
You might have a bikini on, butyou put a shirt on.
If you haven't got a raffia,you put it on.
Yeah, now, nowadays, you know 12, 15 years later you go to
broken hill woolies and peopleare wandering around in in
bikinis now, but back then in2008, it was a bit different.
Kate Coomber (40:00):
I still find it weird because broken hill's
miles from the sea but anyway, Iwas thinking, why are they in
bikinis in broken Hill?
David Maxwell (40:08):
It's the tourists , though they come through and
you know it's hot, yeah, and youknow I've got my bikini on and.
I'm going shopping.
It's like it's not Byron Day,yeah, yeah, you can get away
from it.
Sam Miklos (40:17):
No it totally isn't David?
Can I ask a little bit moreabout Planet Prostate?
You know that's um for you tohave launched that initiative
yourself.
Like what tell us about that?
Like what do you hope toachieve with that?
David Maxwell (40:32):
um well it's going to be a slow uphill climb
I know that so the idea ofplanet prostate was to raise
money and awareness.
Um, I must say that, um, Ithink even when I spoke to you
guys it was.
It became less about the moneyand more about the awareness.
(40:54):
Prostate cancer is a widespreaddiagnosed cancer for men.
It's also a double-edged sword,because it's one of those
cancers that people say youdon't die from it.
In general, you die with it,which is true in a lot of cases.
But there's those small amountof cases where, um, you know it,
(41:14):
it has a major effect andobviously, like breast cancer,
it's a family-wide effect.
You know, um, and the thingabout that is the.
The guidelines in general inthe greater population are like
don't test because we only findone or two people, that's fine,
(41:34):
but when you're in a rural area,one or two people is a big
impact compared to, like, a city.
So for me, going through it asa health professional, I found
bewildering, challenging attimes and with someone who has
that health literacy, I alsobegan to realize that,
(41:57):
comparatively, and two gene,which is a, a potential cause
for breast cancer, it's also apotential cause for some
(42:21):
prostate cancers.
Wow, and we, we do all thisbreast screening and we find
people with breast cancer.
And that didn't seem.
I couldn't seem to find any waythat we were then saying you
need to talk to your brother oryour son because you've had
breast cancer, so that he getschecked earlier than the
(42:42):
guidelines, because there's apotential and vice versa that if
someone's got prostate cancerlike myself, you know, then I
need to talk to a sister.
If I had, or even my niece, youknow.
So for me, my dad had it andthat's what he passed from.
(43:05):
If I get it, you know, I thinkI'm twice as likely to get it if
I'm right with the figures IfI've had a relative, close
relative, get it, because myselfand my dad have got it.
My brother is three times aslikely to get it, but he's had a
different type of cancer, soI'm actually the last in the
(43:27):
family of four to get thecancers.
Sam Miklos (43:29):
But anyway, that's another story.
David Maxwell (43:33):
Must have been all the hospitality days?
Sam Miklos (43:36):
I think it is, it is and it's a lot of.
David Maxwell (43:39):
To be honest, as a for me I I also believe in the
sort of psychosocial of ofhealth as well.
You know there's more to itthan social, emotional and
psychosocial causes and holdingthings in.
You know um resentments, allthese sorts of things.
You know I I do read a bit oflouise hay, if you're aware.
Sam Miklos (43:59):
Yes, I am aware of her writing on the mirror the
affirmations and all of theaffirmations and stuff you know
it's.
David Maxwell (44:06):
it's not about being a be all and end all, but
it's.
It's about taking a multitudeof things and picking what works
for you out of little things.
But coming back toate, it wasthat speaking to my cancer nurse
, I think they said at the timethere were maybe 12 or 14
prostate cancer nurses dottedaround and in Cairns there's two
(44:31):
nurses that job share and theyhave possibly 300 clients in the
far north Queensland and so theidea of Planet Prostate was to
raise awareness, get peopletalking, hopefully raise funds
as well.
It hit a bit of a snag becauseI got the blessing of the
(44:54):
Prostate Cancer Foundation ofAustralia and I was also working
with a small charity here.
But there's all these rulesabout doing raffles and things
like that and as a small charityyou're unable to do a
nationwide raffle because youhave to have financial
footprints in the states thatyou're doing it right, or at
(45:17):
least be with like acommonwealth bank or you know,
anda bank.
So these are all things that Ilearned, but the whole thing is
about raising awareness andgetting people talking about it
in the same way that we talkabout breast cancer and
eventually, hopefully, althoughit could take a while if I, if I
(45:37):
keep going getting a sort of ptest thing going on.
Yeah, you know, but my, my, myidea is is, uh, I've been
playing with ideas and this thisyear I'm trying I haven't
started yet which I should havedone um, coming up with do a dad
for for prostate, which isgoing to be hopefully donate a
dollar.
Yeah, so do a dad for prostate.
(45:59):
And then the plan with the peepsort of test thing was
eventually to make connectionswith both the nrl and the afl,
because their seasons finishroughly at the same time, not
not the, not the final stuffwhere it's really important to
people there, but generally thelast game, when they've had the
Pride round, they've had theIndigenous round, nobody has a
(46:22):
round at the bottom end.
Yeah, that's so true, it's likeyou know, it's hopefully the
bottom end for prostate, youknow and that would be our idea.
That's a good like marketing umtagline there right there and
then just to get people becausecost of living as well, you know
I I've had this discussion withthe prostate cancer foundation
(46:44):
and other charities.
You know we tend to sort of putup these things and you go on
and you get a link and it's likegive 50 or less, you know, and
so people go oh, you know,because we're not paying our
mortgages and stuff like that.
So my idea was to say, give adollar or two and to get 10,000
(47:05):
people giving a dollar or two,rather than 50 people giving $50
.
Sam Miklos (47:10):
Yeah, that's fantastic, and people won't miss
that.
David Maxwell (47:13):
So that's the idea that I'm trying to develop
and hopefully, if we can getthose codes together and other
codes.
I did try and get in touch withthe Wallabies, actually because
they had the Rugby World Cup inSeptember and I was trying
desperately to make contact withthem because one of the stand
commentators, justin Harrison,was an alumni of my university.
(47:37):
Oh, there I am.
That didn't really work, butyou know you can't expect to do
it all in the first year.
That's it.
Kate Coomber (47:46):
I have to think who do we know?
How can we connect?
Yeah, I mean, it's just aboutconnecting.
David Maxwell (47:53):
But you see, it's also difficult because what I'm
learning as well is a lot ofcharity fundraising is dependent
on individuals, so they willgive you a letter to say you can
raise money for us, but I'vegot to be very clear that I
don't work for them.
Kate Coomber (48:09):
Yeah.
David Maxwell (48:10):
And also they have ambassadors which I'd love
to approach but are kind of offlimits.
Yeah, okay, you know and allthat sort of thing.
Kate Coomber (48:19):
So yeah, so I guess today, David, when we talk
about Cornerstone bringing $500to a charity of choice today
for your participation on thepodcast, where is that money
going today?
David Maxwell (48:33):
So my choice is the local charity that helps
cancer survivors of all sorts.
It's called wellness and it hasa long history in cairns and I
believe it's on land that wasdonated by a family who
campaigned long and hard andwere instrumental in eventually
getting a cancer center that wenow have in in cairns and the
(48:57):
liz plumber cancer center.
They operate separately on ablock of land not far from where
I live and they basically umhave services.
So they've got, you know,physio, massage, um all these
sorts of different things.
They've got, um, what do youcall them?
uh god, my brain's gone sorry,therapists, yeah, you know,
(49:22):
psychologists you can access.
They run a little cafe.
It's in a very lovely little umcourtyard area.
You can hire the buildings tosupport the charity.
Um, you know, they do regularfundraising around Cairns and
because of the family linksthey've got, you know, got a
great sort of grassroots thingwith various companies around
Cairns that will do, you know,have not tip jars but have
(49:46):
donation jars for two or threecharities and local charities
and you put your bottle tops inor whatever, and now they count
them up and give to that charity.
So for me they've been veryhelpful.
Um, they were very umsupportive with the planet
prostate thing and that's asmall charity in in in a big,
(50:08):
small town in far northqueensland I think five hundred
dollars would go a long way toto them.
Um, so that's where I choose tosend the $500.
He's gratefully, uh, donatingon my behalf.
Sam Miklos (50:20):
Thank you so much, David um, we have just so
enjoyed our time with you.
You know you are such a genuinerespectful man.
You know the the work that youdo and just the effort that you
put into your community.
It just shines through so much.
And you know, at Cornerstonewe're so very grateful that
we've been able to be affiliatedwith you over the years and
(50:40):
certainly I've always loved that.
You've always given us feedbackand told us that we need to
lift the game of what we'redoing well.
And I love that about you,because you're just always
looking to leave where you'vebeen a better place.
So thank you so much for yourtime today.
(50:54):
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