October 15, 2024 • 54 mins
Annabelle Brayley says "Yes" when opportunities come her way. When a publisher at Penguin read an article she wrote in Outback Magazine, she began curating Bush Nurses for them which eventually led to becoming their published author.
Annabelle's journey is nothing short of extraordinary. Growing up in a small community on the Western Darling Downs, she spent her early days as a registered nurse before transitioning to pivotal roles such as facilitating the establishment of a federal dementia program in Queensland, contributing richly to the RM Williams Outback magazine, and now her advocacy work with Remote Australians Matter.
Annabelle reflects on her early aspirations of becoming a hairdresser, influenced by her father's insistence to pursue nursing, to the unique learning environments of urban versus rural hospitals, the narrative paints a vivid picture of life and growth in rural settings.
In this episode, the topic of healthcare professionals’ transitioning into rural health and community service is explored. We hear about individuals who pivot from conventional roles to impactful positions, leveraging life skills like project management and community involvement.
The conversation takes a critical look at healthcare disparities in remote Australia, emphasising the logistical challenges and the importance of community involvement in healthcare decisions.
This episode of It Takes Heart has CEO of cmr Sam Miklos hosting alongside Head of Talent and Employer Branding, Kate Coomber.
We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso
More about Annabelle's Charity of Choice to Sponsor a Rural Generalist Doctor to attend the RMA conference:
Rural Medicine Australia (RMA)
Rural Medicine Australia (RMA) is the peak national event for rural and remote doctors of Australia. Hosted by the Australian College of Rural and Remote Medicine (ACRRM) and the Rural Doctors Association of Australia (RDAA), RMA attracts a diverse and collaborative community of junior doctors, students, educators, academics, and medical practitioners who are passionate about generalist medicine in rural and remote communities.
Visit https://rma.acrrm.org.au/ for more information.
Get to know cmr better!
Follow @ittakesheartpodcast on Instagram, @cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment on Linked In, @cornerstonemedicalrec on TikTok and @CornerstoneMedicalRecruitment on Facebook.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam Miklos (00:00):
We care for the land and sea.
We care for the energy.
We care for our community.
We care.
Welcome to it Takes Heart.
(00:21):
I'm Sam Miklos and I'm KateCoomba.
We hope you enjoy theseincredible stories of healthcare
professionals making adifference in communities across
Australia and beyond.
Through our conversations, welook to celebrate the spirit of
community and care.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land who have
long practised and sharedancient methods of healing,
providing care and support fortheir communities with wisdom
(00:44):
passed down through generations.
Kate Coomber (00:46):
Join us as we explore what it truly means to
take heart.
Sam Miklos (00:55):
Today we are thrilled to have Annabelle
Braley with us.
She is the true embodiment ofseizing every opportunity.
Though she initially trained asa registered nurse, annabelle's
journey has taken her from aremote sheep station to managing
a federal dementia program,purchasing a news agency and
working on a number of boardroles.
She's even become a publishedauthor, with six books now to
(01:16):
her name, and is a regularcontributor to the RM Williams
Outback magazine.
Annabelle's passion for ruraland remote healthcare shines
through her recent work withRemote Australians Matter, where
she champions equitablehealthcare access for all remote
Australians.
Having recently retired fromher role with the Australian
College of Rural and RemoteMedicine, annabelle now
(01:36):
dedicates her efforts to thisvital cause.
Join us today as we exploreAnnabelle's remarkable journey.
Welcome to it Takes Heart,annabelle.
Annabelle Brayley (01:44):
Thanks Sam, thanks Kate.
It's lovely to be here.
Thank you.
Sam Miklos (01:47):
So I have to first start.
It really resonated with methat you love to seize every
opportunity, and for me that'salways been my motto.
I'm just a yes, yes, details,details, We'll work it out later
.
Tell us about one of thecraziest times you've said yes
to something where it's reallyworked out for you.
Annabelle Brayley (02:08):
I would actually say that I can't really
remember a significant timewhen it hasn't, because I think
that you can always makesomething of everything.
Sam Miklos (02:19):
I love that.
Annabelle Brayley (02:20):
Even if it's only embracing the experience.
So it may not have worked outthe way I thought it should or
hoped it might, but it's, youknow, everything's a learning
opportunity Totally.
And I think you should say youknow, have a go at everything
(02:40):
that interests you and say yesto any opportunity, because you
just don't know where it mightlead.
And for me, certainly thesignificant thing was and it was
prefaced by other yeses thatkind of led me into that
situation but writing the story.
(03:01):
I was asked to write a coverstory for Outback Magazine about
remote health and, just to goback, I actually got into being
a published writer because in2006, we were living in Morven,
we'd moved up there, We'd soldup in 2001, moved up to this
tiny community for five minutesand we're still there because
(03:22):
it's such a fabulous community,community for five minutes.
And we're still there becauseit's such a fabulous community.
And I had done various otherthings.
Anyway, in 2006, I happened towrite to the editor of the
Outback, rm Williams Outbackmagazine and asked were they
sending somebody up to write astory about the Victoria Downs
Marina Stud in our district,which was celebrating their
centenary?
Anyway, the short part of thatstory was that they weren't and
(03:48):
asked me, could I write?
And ultimately I wrote thatarticle and it was the first
paid for article that I had hadpublished.
And I say paid for because thereally exciting bit about it.
I was actually cleaning out adrawer the other day and I
photocopied the che check whenit came from that first story.
It was so exciting.
(04:08):
Yeah, and it's exciting to seeyour words in print.
Sam Miklos (04:12):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Annabelle Brayley (04:13):
So I hadn't expected to have that
opportunity, but you know I did,and some years later, the
magazine asked me would I writea cover story about remote
health?
And I very nearly.
It was towards the end of ayear, I guess, 2011, that it was
(04:34):
going to come out.
I had other things on and Ithought I don't really know that
I have time to do this, and thehonest thing was that I
actually didn't know what acover story was, but I said yes
anyway in the end.
I love that and I wrote thisstory, and I'm pretty sure it
wasn't a very good one, becausethey've never asked me to write
another cover story.
(04:55):
However, as a result of that, Icame home.
It came out in January 2000.
I can't remember which year itwas 2011 or 2012.
And it must have been 2011.
And there was a message on myphone that said this person's
(05:16):
name and I'm an editor fromPenguin Books Australia and I'd
like you to give us a call backand I actually thought you know
somebody.
Kate Coomber (05:23):
I know, but it was a Melbourne phone number.
Annabelle Brayley (05:27):
So I rang the number and sure enough it was
an editor from Penguin Books anda publisher there had read that
article in Outback Magazine andasked me would I be interested
in collating the stories thatultimately became Bush Nurses?
And that was actually aphilanthropic project of theirs.
They do that every now andagain, or they did back in those
(05:48):
days, and the royalties fromthat went to Frontier Services,
which I had worked for at onestage, and you know, like
Frontier Services really in manyways John Flynn, and you know
the origins of all thehealthcare services that we have
(06:08):
in Australia, and so I had thatopportunity and because of that
, when I read some of thestories that came in, I actually
said to the publisher, andrea,like we've got some gobsnacking
stories here.
They are really really amazingstories, fantastic nurses, and
as a result of that they gave mea contract to write Nurses of
(06:30):
the Outback and the books thatfollowed.
And that wouldn't have happenedhad I said no to that cover
story.
Kate Coomber (06:39):
None of that would have happened.
I think that's incredible.
It's really inspiring, isn't it?
Of where you just have to takea chance and thank you for
saying yes here today and comingto see us I have to say this is
not my comfort zone to behonest.
Annabelle Brayley (06:54):
I don't like public speaking and I don't I
like being on the other side ofthe storytelling, of asking the
questions I wanted to ask that,because what do you think makes
a great storyteller?
Sam Miklos (07:04):
you know you've written so many books now, and
now you see yourself as a.
I want to ask that, becausewhat do you think makes a great
storyteller?
You know you've written so manybooks now and now you see
yourself as a storyteller.
Annabelle Brayley (07:10):
What makes a great storyteller.
It took me a long time to getmy head around the idea that I
might actually be a goodstoryteller because I guess in
part because I fell into it youknow one of the things about
anything we do and certainly thesaying yes thing, is, sometimes
(07:32):
it's better if you actuallyhave to apply to do things and
go through the process of youknow whether it's a job or, in
this case, you know, having anopportunity to tell stories,
whatever.
But go through the process ofwinning the role because it
gives it a legitimacy that youdon't normally or I didn't
(07:53):
necessarily feel when thingshave happened, just because I
said yes, but then I realisedthat you know the fact that
you're asked in the first placeprobably counts for something.
Yes, but then I realised thatyou know the fact that you're
asked in the first placeprobably counts for something.
Yes, absolutely.
And so I think that my talent asa storyteller is that I'm very
(08:17):
clear in my own head thatthey're not about me and I'm
actually just a conduit forother people to tell their
stories.
So I'm a tool and I'm actuallyjust a conduit for other people
to tell their story.
So I'm a tool, I can take theirstories and turn them into
something that somebody elsewants to read.
I'm really really pedanticabout accuracy and can be about
detail, et cetera.
(08:38):
I'll check and double-checkthings and if somebody tells me
something that I decide is moreabout their memory or mis-memory
than it is about fact, thenI'll find a way to circumvent it
or not include it.
That kind of stuff, yeah.
But I think that in my case,what makes me a good storyteller
is that I actually am veryclear.
(09:00):
I am telling somebody else'sstory and I don't have anything
to do with it whatsoever.
I don't have any opinion aboutit.
I try not to have preconceivednotions about it.
I'm just the tool for them toshare their story.
Kate Coomber (09:12):
Yeah, I love it, so can we maybe go back and this
is where you are now.
But how did healthcare comeabout?
Sam Miklos (09:26):
Take us way back.
When is it always desire?
Because didn't you want to be ahairdresser?
Annabelle Brayley (09:30):
Yeah, did I really?
I did want to be a hairdresser.
I grew up in a small communityof miles, which is on the
Western Darling Downs.
My parents were bothprofessionals.
My father was the dentist intown.
My mother was a teacher.
Well, she wasn't actually ateacher when I this is a thing.
You'll probably need to remindme of the question you asked,
(09:50):
because I'm just going todigress here for a second.
Go for it.
My mother was actually an onlychild.
She was born in NorthQueensland, had no experience of
you know bush life, or Well,she did, but not living it
herself permanently as an adultwith children etc.
She actually lectured chemistryand physics at Queensland
University and she actuallylectured a lot of, she tutored a
(10:13):
lot of the doctors and dentistswho would now be in their I
guess, 90s I suppose, who wentoff to the Second World War and
came back and resumed university, so that kind of age group in
the early 40s she was tutoringand she married.
(10:33):
My father came to Miles and tothis little bush town with like
the straight out of academia, sohe was from there.
Kate Coomber (10:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Annabelle Brayley (10:44):
And like she must have just been the ultimate
fish out of pond, yeah, I wentto Miles just recently?
Kate Coomber (10:51):
Yeah, you did, and it's probably.
Is it bigger than it would havebeen then?
Annabelle Brayley (10:55):
Oh, certainly , yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but in
some ways it hasn't changed.
You know, like my grandmother'shouse is still in the main
street.
Yeah, and, and excuse me, thereare things about it that are
the same and it's essentially,you know, a small community, but
, yeah, it's grown in many ways.
Sam Miklos (11:15):
So your career.
Annabelle Brayley (11:17):
Yeah, mum actually was able to transfer.
I can't remember the details ofhow this happened, but because
of her qualifications at uni shewas able to translate that into
a teaching qualification.
So she actually went back tothe local high school and taught
(11:38):
when three of my brothers and Iwere.
Three of us were at boardingschool at the same time.
One of them was at university,which is a big undertaking.
So she went back to teaching,which was such a fortunate thing
for some of the kids in thatcommunity because she actually
changed the lives of people inthat community, because she was
such a wonderful teacher and sheopened them up to opportunities
(12:00):
.
It didn't occur to her to sayyou know, you can just be a
farmer.
She was like well, you can go touniversity and be a chemistry
lecturer.
And I know at least one doctorfrom that community and various
other professionals who've kidsfrom that community who became a
doctor, who would say they didit because of the influence of
my mother.
Yeah so, but when we grew upfour brothers I just wanted to
(12:26):
be a hairdresser.
I do have an artistic streakand for me, I don't know why I
wanted to be a hairdresser, butthat's what I wanted to be.
And I keep saying to people youknow, I did train as a nurse
because my father said you'vegot to be a nurse or a teacher,
but I really should have been ahairdresser.
And I don't mean that with anydisparagement to hairdressers,
(12:47):
because I actually think thathairdressers are the world's are
just penultimate counsellors.
Kate Coomber (12:53):
Yeah, oh, absolutely, you know people go
to their hairdresser,particularly women you know,
offload all your joys and yoursadness and whatever, and it's
really critical.
You know, you walk out unhappyand and you come out looking
fabulous.
Annabelle Brayley (13:03):
Yeah, you know, it's just gold.
And so I really should havebeen a hairdresser.
Because the other side of that,of course, is that what I
realised later as a storytelleris that I really just wanted to
hear the stories.
I didn't want to.
I can remember getting intotrouble when I was nursing at PA
for sitting on a patient's bedbecause I was sitting there
talking about you know, they'retelling you their story.
(13:24):
But I didn't realise then thatthat was a thing I could or
might have done.
So I did start my nursingtraining at PA.
I finished it at theCharleville Base Hospital.
Oh, because this was the otherthing.
When Dad said you've got to bea nurse or a teacher because he
knew that I wanted to go andlive in the bush or further west
(13:45):
I said, oh good, well, I'll goand train at Charleville or
Gundawindi, which at the timehad regional training programs.
And he said, no, if you'regoing to be a real nurse, you
know, if you're going to trainproperly, you've got to go to
the city, and I at the time Iwas, you know.
I stomped off to PA and and umstomped back out again about 18
(14:07):
months later, did something elsefor a while and went back and
finished my training inCharleville.
But I saw, experienced andlearned more in 18 months at
Charleville than I did in 18months at Princess Alexandra.
And I would say part of thereason for that is because I at
PA was moved by chance to mostlyyou know specific wards, like
(14:34):
you know children's orthopaedics, renal whatever as opposed to
just a general nursing ward.
And I know in a way there wouldbe nurses who would say but
that's what you're doing,general nursing.
But for me it was just all thewrong place at the wrong time.
Whereas in Charleville,whatever happened you get
involved in and I would say thatto any staff now I mean, we can
(14:55):
come back to this later butcertainly the opportunities for
practising your craft you knowthe thing that you've been
trained for so well for so manyyears the opportunities to
actually embrace that anddeliver that are far greater in
a rural or remote area than theyare in a city hospital.
Kate Coomber (15:16):
Getting the exposure, aren't you?
Oh, totally yeah, and do youthink?
Sam Miklos (15:20):
that that could have .
You know, could a graduate havethat same experience?
Do you think it would be?
You know a graduate would feelas comfortable and supported
going out first year to a rural,remote community and working
there, or do you think there's abenefit to them having some
time in the city?
Annabelle Brayley (15:36):
Well, I personally think that they
should be training in the bush.
I think everybody should betraining there.
I think, you know, we didn't doanybody any good service when
they closed down the hospitaltraining programs and personally
I just think that wasuniversities grabbing money.
Quite frankly, we'll train themand we'll have the money.
I could be completely wrong,but that's what it feels like,
(15:59):
because we took away so much ofthe workforce as well, not just
in rural communities, but in thecity.
You know, it just didn't makeany sense.
Sam Miklos (16:07):
It would have helped too, I imagine, with that if
they were training in thoseregional and rural communities.
If that's someone from the city, they might not have never had
that experience, but they mightbe willing to go back and work
Absolutely, you know they'reexposed to that.
Annabelle Brayley (16:19):
Well, the other side of that was when I
was training at Charleville.
They obviously weren't trainingdoctors, training nurses, and
so they were training assistantnurses and nurse aides at the
Charleville Hospital.
The nurses including me whowere doing registered nursing
training went to the ToowoombaGeneral for a block to do our
(16:41):
lectures, but then we'd go backand we would nurse at Toowoomba
General at the same time.
So we got that dual experience.
But then we went back to thehospitals and we had, you know,
all the sisters were, you know,teaching nurses et cetera, even
if that was just the practicalskills on the floor.
But it was a learningenvironment.
So med students coming intothere or allied health students,
(17:02):
anybody coming into thatenvironment, was coming in and
working in an education,teaching environment, and that's
very different to coming intothe kind of environments we have
now, where we are returning abit to that learning kind of
environment and there'scertainly support networks, but
not the kind of teachingenvironment we had back in those
(17:22):
days.
I don't believe.
And I would say now to anyonewho's half interested in
training, certainly inQueensland, look at the Southern
Queensland Rural Health Hubsorry, the Rural Hub which is a
collaboration between and I'mhoping I'm getting this correct
(17:43):
UniSQ, uq, darling Downs Healthand Southwest Health and
Hospital Service and they havehubs at Charleville, has been
there for a while, st George,and I think they've just opened
one in Chinchilla.
But in Charleville we actuallythey are training nurses again
for the first time and I believethey're also progressing
towards medicine, so that youknow we have nurses, not
(18:08):
necessarily just country girls,but because anybody can apply to
join the program, becauseanybody can apply to join the
program.
But they are training in ruraland remote and I can't just say,
I can't over say how importantthat is.
It will make a difference, yeah.
Sam Miklos (18:27):
In what way?
How do you see that making adifference?
Annabelle Brayley (18:33):
Because they're learning where they're
working.
Kate Coomber (18:34):
You know, there are so many things that are
different.
Annabelle Brayley (18:41):
Many years ago I actually coordinated a
program for the IsolatedChildren's Parents Association,
which was it's a federalorganisation but also has state
context.
And so I coordinated that forQueensland in the late 90s,
bringing student teachers fromQUT into rural and remote
schools for pracs context.
And so I coordinated that forQueensland in the late 90s,
bringing students, studentteachers, from QUT, into rural
and remote schools for pracs.
I set up their pracs where theywent, et cetera, talked to
(19:02):
their parents, came down here,talked to the students before
they came, told them a bit aboutwhere they were going to go,
what they would find.
Parents would ring me and ask meeverything from how will I get
there?
How long will it take?
One even rang me and asked mehow to drive up the Toowoomba
Range.
All of that like just becausepeople don't know, they have no
experience of it.
(19:22):
And so in that same way, Ithink, because it's a very
well-supported and I use theword nurtured advisedly because
I don't think that they'reoverly, you know, helicoptered
or anything, I just thinkthey're well supported Teaching
environment to someone likeCharleville that they're
actually learning their craft onthe ground and having that same
(19:44):
exposure to whatever's going onyou know, if something they
would know what's happening inthe community or over in the
hospital at any one time.
There's, you know, just ano-brainer.
Kate Coomber (19:56):
So did you work as a nurse?
Well, I did for a little while.
Yeah, what was the?
Where did it go from there?
Annabelle Brayley (20:03):
Well, I finished my training.
I worked straight after Igraduated.
I actually went and worked as areceptionist at Grascos in
Charleville, which is a shearingcontractor, yeah right and
moonlighted at a pub at the sametime on Friday nights, because
my heart really wasn't in it.
I should never have been anurse, not in terms of looking
(20:26):
after people and actually makinga difference to their medical
outcomes.
I really should have been ahairdresser to their medical
outcomes.
I really should have been ahairdresser.
But the advantage for me wasthat when it came to writing
about nurses, I had a.
You know, it's like a badge,you know I trained as a nurse.
(20:48):
I get the black humour, I getthe.
I get them.
You can relate and totally andI think, and I'm grateful for
that reason that I did them.
You can relate and totally andI think, and I'm grateful for
that reason that I did, that I'mnot a lot of help in a medical
crisis.
There are some things I can doand not.
But you know I'm not, it's justnot my thing, you know.
Sam Miklos (21:08):
But I'll tell you stories.
I totally appreciate that,because I trained as an
occupational therapist and Iworked clinically for five
minutes, I would say, inToowoomba base and it just
wasn't.
It wasn't there.
But healthcare was something Iwas just so passionate about and
I think it's I understand nowwhen I talk to allied health
(21:28):
professionals, I understand whatthey're doing and their
challenges, but it just wasn'tthe place that I wanted to be.
You went on then and you wereon the board of ARCRM, the
Australian College of Rural andRemote Medicine.
Annabelle Brayley (21:40):
Well, well before that, I got interested in
I mean, look, I've always beeninterested in remote health.
I'm alive and I live out there,so you know we should all be
interested in health and ourhealth outcomes.
It's your health, it is ourhealth.
That health and our healthoutcomes, it's your health, it
is our health.
That's exactly right, or it'syour health?
Yeah, when we sold our propertyand dissolved this partnership
(22:02):
well before that actually, ourkids had gone to boarding school
and my husband said to me oneday you need to get a job
because we were quite remote.
And he said you need to get ajob because otherwise you're
going to end up brain dead.
And I clearly needed somethingto occupy my time.
Yeah, and other than you know,going out and helping.
And now that I look back Ithink, okay, so maybe he was
(22:24):
getting me out of the way.
I hadn't actually thought aboutthat before.
Anyway, so I applied for a jobthat I absolutely was not
qualified for.
And just to correct yourintroduction slightly, yeah, I
wasn't the coordinator of anational dementia respite
program.
However, I did apply to be themanager of a dementia respite
(22:50):
program, which was Auspice RooBlue Care here in Queensland, in
remote Queensland, for which Iabsolutely was not qualified.
But I applied anyway and thiscomes back to that.
You know, have a go like applyfor anything that interests you.
Because for me, part of thatwas just about I'd never applied
for a job ever in my whole life, and when I did that I must
(23:11):
have been 45 or something, youknow.
So I never applied for a job inmy life and so I didn't.
Actually, I learned a lot fromthat process.
I didn't expect to get the jobI mean, I probably hoped to on
some level but the process ofactually applying and asking
(23:32):
people to help me write myapplication, which I did a
friend of mine who was a teacherat Cunnamulla at the time,
helen Miller helped me.
You know finesse my applicationand I actually and I used
things because I didn't have aCV so I used things like my
experience living on a remotecheap station.
(23:54):
You know every now and againyou've got contractors coming in
.
You know you've got to organisesharing.
Through the year I hadhome-tuned my kids, bought up a
family, managed a house, all ofthat sort of stuff.
You're a project manager Exactlyexactly multitasking project
manager and I had also had quitea lot of experience in various
levels with local communitythings and with isolated
(24:17):
children's parents.
I used that coordinating thatteacher thing as one of my
skills on the application and Iactually scored an interview and
was offered a job.
And I remember I came intoToowoomba, I caught the train
down to Toowoomba for theinterview and I went to it in my
best Sunday dress because I hadno idea.
(24:37):
I was so overdressed for it Ihad absolutely no idea what I
was doing.
But they offered me a job as aproject manager with this new
service because they actuallyhad, they got the funding for it
but they hadn't actually set itup.
So I did that for six monthsand then I switched to a role
coordinating the placement ofrespite workers into the homes
(24:59):
of people who were looking aftersomeone with dementia in a
remote area, and so I would go,do the assessments in the homes,
work out who needed to be there, try and match personalities,
which again, coming back tostorytelling was, which I wasn't
doing then.
But that know, kind ofhairdresser, listen to people's
stories, things thing washelpful because it enabled me
(25:20):
hopefully to place the bestperson into any situation, the
most appropriate person, and soI did that for a few years.
I've done, I've done a lot ofactually worked at a lot of jobs
at times, but I stayed workingfor Blue Care in that role for
three years.
It was a pilot program.
(25:40):
The government chose to can it,which was just tragic, because
it actually was.
You know, it was a costly butcost-effective way of keeping
people with dementia at home foras long as possible, and some
of them are quite young peopleliving on farms and properties
where you know going away.
It's not just about you knowpopping down the street to the
nursing home.
(26:00):
This is a whole differentballgame when you live in a
remote area and you have to gosomewhere else for whatever it
just has implications not justfor the person involved and the
immediate family, but for wholecommunities, and so we need to
rethink the way we close thatdistance and that we can come
(26:21):
back to that later as well.
Anyway, I did that for threeyears and then I continued to
work for Blue Care for a coupleof years until I started falling
asleep driving, because I wasdoing a lot of driving around
Queensland.
And I fell asleep one daydriving home.
Fortunately, nobody else was onthe road and I didn't do any
damage.
But it gave me a fright, and itwasn't just, you know, like that
blink.
I actually fell asleep and ranoff the road.
(26:43):
Well, ran, you know.
Anyway, it was fine, nothinghappened.
But I realised that I had toget out and be doing something
else.
So I bought the local newsagency in our little community.
So I bought the local newsagency in our little community
and just quickly I bought that,and a few weeks before I took it
over, I had this conversationwith Outback about writing the
(27:05):
stories, and so I had thisopportunity to write a story,
and I'd just taken over a newsagency and I didn't know where
either was going.
Kate Coomber (27:15):
Anyway, you're in the right spot to market your
own magazine, yeah.
Annabelle Brayley (27:22):
Maybe if I hadn't been negotiating to buy
the magazine who knows I mean tobuy the shop, who knows I
mightn't have thought about.
Actually, you need to write,somebody needs to be writing the
story.
You know, timing is everything.
Sam Miklos (27:34):
Totally.
Kate Coomber (27:35):
You can sense that you are so passionate about the
community that you live in andthat you're a part of even the
newsagent.
You know that understanding ofpeople.
I can just imagine.
It's almost that hairdresserdream of being able to talk to
everybody in the community asthey come in.
Annabelle Brayley (27:49):
I think in a very general sense just sorry, I
am not.
I am a bit passionate about mycommunity in some ways, but I'm
more passionate about communityhaving a say in their
communities, about people havingthe opportunity to be involved
in the decisions that are madeabout their communities.
I know that some people don'twant to be, but none of us are
(28:10):
ever asked and I think you knowI will die pushing for community
to be asked and the firstquestion I will always ask any
organisation is where's yourcommunity representation?
Kate Coomber (28:21):
So if we can get to your current sort of passion
and role, but touching on theAkram role as well, the.
Rural Remote Medical College.
How did that come about?
And I think what's reallyinteresting in this conversation
is that you can work withinhealthcare.
You can work within this areaeven if you don't want to be
(28:41):
clinical Absolutely.
Sam Miklos (28:43):
As you were saying.
Kate Coomber (28:44):
You know, and it's just wonderful to hear all the
different opportunities thatyou've had.
Annabelle Brayley (28:48):
In terms of Akram.
So I got a contract to writeBush Doctors.
Before that happened, Iactually pushed it back.
It was supposed to come out in2016 and I asked the publisher
if we could push it back becauseI wanted to write the stories
about Vietnam, the Australianwomen who nursed in Vietnam, all
the Australians who nursed inVietnam, because some of them
(29:09):
were medics, and so I actuallypushed that back and it took me
two years to get my head out ofVietnam because I essentially
debriefed some of the people Iinterviewed and when I did, it
was because I actually got Ijoined Twitter so I stalk
(29:31):
doctors, yeah, yeah, becausethere are a lot of doctors on
Twitter.
On.
Sam Miklos (29:34):
Twitter they are.
Annabelle Brayley (29:35):
So I actually , literally, was stalking
doctors on Twitter and I found adoctor called Kate Closer, who
and I can't remember whichhappened first whether I read
something on Twitter that shehad been appointed no, she'd
been awarded Registrar of theYear, I think.
Or she was going to theAntarctic, I'm not sure which
(29:58):
caught my attention first, butthat kind of caught my attention
and all of a sudden I was intodoctors and as a result of that,
I discovered the AustralianCollege of Rural and Remote
Medicine, which I'd never heardof and I think probably most
Australians hadn't then, and Igot in contact with them and
Ewan McPhee, who was not I can'tquite remember how I I think he
(30:28):
might have been president ofRural Doctors Association at the
time, I'm not sure, but anyway,I asked him to write the
foreword for the book.
He told me about Akram.
You know, various people weretelling me about Akram, so I got
in touch with them because Icould find more doctors and I
learned what they do, which isactually train doctors
specifically for rural andremote practice, and it was like
, oh my gosh.
(30:48):
You know, here I get it.
I've found a lot of my people,and so I became aware of them.
Anyway, in 2017 or 18, about thetime the book came out but they
decided to advertise for acommunity director on their
board.
They didn't tell me about it.
(31:10):
I read it in the Australian orsomething.
Yeah, right, Anyway.
But when I saw it I thought, ohmy God, I know what that is.
Sam Miklos (31:15):
Yes.
Kate Coomber (31:16):
And this is all that opportunity thing.
Annabelle Brayley (31:17):
I know what that is.
I'm going to apply for thatcompletely unqualified.
I have no skills in theboardroom.
Sam Miklos (31:22):
I know nothing about anything but everything about
it, but I live in the rightplace.
I was just going to say, yeah,you've got the lived experience.
Annabelle Brayley (31:28):
So I actually successfully applied and the
college were fantastic.
They offered me the opportunityto do the course at the
Australian Institute of CompanyDirectors, which I did and
managed to qualify through thatand graduate.
And so that began myassociation with Akram and what
(31:52):
we were able to do was establishtheir community reference group
, which is a really importantpart of the organisation, I
think.
What does that entail?
So when they first asked me tobe a board member, I don't
believe anybody can representanyone collectively on their own
.
So I set up this group and Itold them I was doing it.
(32:12):
I set up this group acrossAustralia of people I knew, so
that if they asked me a questionas a board member or there was
something that I needed to beaware of, that I had people
across Australia I could go toand say, oh, an opinion about
this, that or whatever else.
And so when it came to themthinking you know they wanted a
community reference group, thatwas sort of a natural transition
to start.
Yeah, yeah, so some of thosepeople came onto that first,
(32:36):
which was a pretty kind ofcasual group in the beginning
but was actually formalised, andI chaired that group until I
actually resigned from the board.
I resigned from the board, Ithink, or didn't re-sit, can't
remember which happened, butanyway in 2022, but stayed on as
(32:57):
the chair of the communityreference group until 2023.
And I had a succession plan inplace.
So someone moved in Gus White,who's now the chair of the group
.
You know that was a wellthought out process on behalf of
the College and me, and thatgroup continues to advise the
(33:18):
college in terms of communityinput and opinion about anything
to do with the college and rawand remote medicine.
Sam Miklos (33:26):
Tell us about Remote Australians.
Matter then.
Annabelle Brayley (33:30):
So, as a result of talking with all of
those people, one of the thingsthat became very obvious to me
is that remote gets lost in thereal context.
You know, people are startingto and I say people usually when
I say people I mean decisionmakers, politicians, et cetera,
who are making decisions aboutother people, whether they, you
know, are qualified to or not,and I believe that remote is
(33:54):
just too hard.
Can I just ask?
Sam Miklos (33:55):
you there?
What's the difference, youbelieve, between remote and
rural Australia?
Everything.
Can you describe that Becauseso many people wouldn't be aware
of that?
Annabelle Brayley (34:04):
Okay, so socially, economically,
culturally, demographically,geographically it is different
because everything is moreextreme.
And socially it's more extremebecause distance are further,
and socially it's more extremebecause distance are further, so
it's harder to be social, as inface-to-face socialisation,
(34:25):
everything is, you know, harderto access.
I can remember years ago when Iwas interviewing actually I was
in the Northern Territory in anAboriginal community,
interviewing a nurse for thebook, and the manager of the
clinic happened to be there atthe time and they something like
(34:48):
, and I can't remember what, themachine was, but it was
something basic like the ECG oryou know whatever, and it had
broken down and I said, oh,winston, you weren't arriving.
And they said, well, we orderedit eight months ago and we still
haven't heard when it's comingLike.
So that's kind of an example ofsome of the resourcing problems
.
And it's not that they can'tget it there, it's that it's
(35:08):
like when we need something in aremote area, just get it there.
You know the logistics andpalming off about getting stuff
done is just awful.
You know, just make it happen.
(35:28):
Because one of the things that Ifirmly believe and that at RAM
we believe, is that you can takeany number of services that you
design and you know develop ina metropolitan or even rural
area.
You take them to a remote areaand they're almost destined to
fail because they won't have thesupport networks.
(35:50):
You know the votes, the money,the people, the anything around
it that ensures continuity.
If you design something in aremote area and make it work, it
will work anywhere, because youjust add people and money and
you know whatever.
And so for those reasons, Ithink that remote has to be
(36:14):
considered separately and Ibelieve there's no equitable
access to primary health care inremote Australia, and I believe
that we can do something aboutit.
Every Australian has a right touniversal health care.
Kate Coomber (36:29):
They do yeah, and I think, getting the right
people out there as well,because if they don't have the
resources, I think some of thedoctors that we've spoken to in
this podcast they actuallyreally enjoyed the work in the
community and immersing in thecommunity, but sometimes, if
they don't have access to thepathology, they need the imaging
that they need.
They want to make sure they'remaking the best decisions with
(36:51):
the best outcomes.
I think there's a bit of asorry, I'm interrupting.
No, not at all.
I think it's just making surethat they've got the resources,
like the machinery that works,so that they can help people.
Annabelle Brayley (37:03):
And it needs to be the basic machinery that
works, though it doesn't need tobe.
You know, I think we rely a loton technology in medicine these
days, and I don't think that'sdoing anyone any favours either.
I can remember one of thenurses, chris Belshaw, who used
to be an RFDS nurse, saying youneed to eyeball your patient.
(37:27):
You know, you need to be ableto look at the patient.
Don't look at the machine, lookat the patient.
And I've had doctors say thesame thing.
Really good remote doctors andnurses who will say look at the
patient.
Like you know, don't beworrying about the gizmos, yeah,
yeah, but you do need the basicones.
Sam Miklos (37:45):
You do need the basic ones to actually
facilitate, you know, good basiccare I think what's the work
then I'm just going to say thatwhat's the what's the work then
that rams is trying to do toclose these gaps well, ram's not
fixing anything Right.
Annabelle Brayley (37:59):
So Remote Australians Matter is a group of
there were five, there'scurrently four, and we're a very
defined demographic and we'revery aware of that, so we don't
claim to represent anybodywhatsoever.
What we're trying to do is setup a conduit that enables remote
Australians to get involved inthe decisions that are made
(38:20):
about their primary health care.
Access to primary health carewe need place-based, innovative,
sustainable primary health careaccess on community, whatever
that is and community isdifferent things to different
people and there's absolutely,without doubt, the Royal Flying
Doctor Service does amazingservice across the country, and
they do deliver great primaryhealth care, but they're not,
(38:42):
they don't go to everybody orthey're not accessible to
everybody for whatever reason,and all those clinic runs aren't
, and so we need to make surethat every remote Australian can
access the primary health carethey need, particularly children
under five.
You know so the kids startschool.
Education and health areinexplicably linked.
(39:03):
In my opinion, kids should bestarting school knowing that
they can hear, knowing that theycan see properly, knowing that
their walking's straight,knowing that their spines are
straight, knowing that theireyesight is all of those things,
and that's not happening Now.
It may not be happening in thecity, I don't know.
But people who live in metroareas or even rural areas can
(39:23):
more easily get to somewherewhere they can access those
things.
For people who live in remoteAustralia that is just not
always possible and telehealthdoesn't cut it.
Rfds is the original telehealthproviders in my opinion, they've
been doing telehealth since theday they've got the radios
going.
Providers in my opinion,they've been doing telehealth
since that day they've got theradios going.
(39:45):
But that's a completelydifferent um scenario for um,
you know, the modern day versionof telehealth to be um promoted
as an option, as an alternativeto good primary health care
access is just not viablebecause you have to.
It's that eyeballing thepatient thing.
Um, you know, mostly rfds willbe mostly um from primary health
(40:06):
care.
They will be doing umtelehealth over the phone or
whatever with people that theysee on a clinic run, you know,
or that they have a history of,etc.
So, um, we need we we reallyneed to focus on remote
australia and make things workthere for a whole lot of reasons
that include national securityand biosecurity and border
security, et cetera, and fixthat and then we can translate
(40:28):
that elsewhere and more peopleresources, then more clinics
more people Depends on what youmean by people.
Yes, definitely to all levels ofmedical staff.
I don't think doctors on theirown can fix this.
I think that we need to take acollaborative view of delivering
healthcare to remote Australia,that we need to be.
(40:50):
It could be, for instance, mostcommunities not everyone, but
most communities will have anurse or someone who trained as
a nurse, or someone who, like,is almost a nurse or whatever,
like there'll be a nurse-likefigure in just about every
community, and they're often thelinchpins of the community.
So they're obviously reallyimportant.
But I think, from acollaborative view, that we need
(41:13):
to be thinking about okay, sowho's in any community that has
any health experience?
And that, for me, includes vets, who are really some of the
most, you know, the smartest,most highly trained medical
deliverers in the country.
They just happen to bedelivering to people, to animals
, who?
Kate Coomber (41:28):
can't talk back to them.
Annabelle Brayley (41:29):
So you know, but I think that if we took a
view that we could set upplace-based sustainable, set up
place-based sustainable, youknow, kind of collaborative
primary healthcare options thatmay, in a very tiny community,
revolve around a person who hassome medical knowledge, who can
(41:52):
be the you know, on the draftinggate, you know you come to them
and you say, okay, look, I'vegot this problem and they will
be okay.
So we've built this team.
Now the team's going to looklike different things in
different places.
It could be a building on thestreet or it could be, you know,
a phone call to a team.
It could be.
This is where it comes into.
Communities need to work outwhat suits them, but somebody
(42:15):
who can facilitate that accessto whatever it is they need.
Now, the context I'm talkingabout there sounds a bit more
emergent than primary healthcare, but if we have that level
established, then surely thatcan be established on the
foundations of a primary healthcare access that works for
(42:35):
everybody.
One of the other things weachieve with all of this course
is that if people have access toprimary health care early and
they get into the habit ofaccessing it, then not only are
they learning the things thatthey need to know about their
own health management butthey're also learning the
language.
That gives them the healthliteracy they need to be in
(42:57):
control of their health outcomes, and health literacy, as you
would know, is a huge thing,absolutely huge.
But we definitely need to bringmore medical staff into remote
Australia.
Kate Coomber (43:09):
And so I guess, if there are people who live in
rural remote areas listening andyou talk a lot about the
community involvement and theyreally need to drive this, what
can they do?
Annabelle Brayley (43:19):
Well, for starters, they can get to know
who their local medical staffare, you know, just socially,
just find out who's around andmake them welcome into the
community.
I think also that they can beresponsible for their own health
.
I think we should all beresponsible for our health
outcomes Sorry, not for ourhealth outcomes, for our health
(43:40):
outcomes, sorry, not for ourhealth outcomes, for our health
management.
And I mean that I don't meanyou have to know how to fix
stuff, I mean you have to knowthat it's your responsibility
and you need to go to the doctoror the nurse or whoever it is
you need to go to and find outwhat's wrong and find out how to
fix it.
Because everyone knows thestatistics, particularly in
(44:04):
remote Australia, are muchhigher for things around.
You know smoking, drinking,obesity, whatever, apparently
and certainly life expectationis shorter.
But a lot of that is becauseyou know that access is not
available.
So people don't think abouttaking responsibility.
I mean, some people do.
I know a lot of people who takeresponsibility for their health
(44:25):
management, and some of them invery remote areas.
But in general it's anenvironment we need to work on
and encourage people to bebetter involved in.
So there's that, but there'salso, I think, communities need
to, regardless of where they are, communities need to,
(44:46):
regardless of where they are,need to not think about their
medical professionals as anentitlement or something that
they have a right to.
We all have a right to expectequitable access to primary
health care, but I do not havethe right to walk up to you, dr
Kate, in the grocery store andask you about my ingrown toenail
, because you know that's likeyou're a person.
(45:07):
All these medical professionalsare still people and they need
to have a life.
And one of the reasons I thinkthat and look, I didn't always
think this way, I've had a lotof years to think it through and
different environments to manypeople to think it through in
that the first time I heard amedical professional say to me,
you know we need life balance,I'm like really.
(45:27):
But of course we do.
You know we all want to liveour lives the way we want to
live them, and so should medicalpractitioners.
So community again need to beresponsible for respecting the
demarcation lines around thelives of their medical
professionals and embrace themsocially.
But if you want to embrace themprofessionally, make an
(45:49):
appointment when their surgeryis open on Monday morning.
Kate Coomber (45:52):
Respect the boundaries a little bit.
Sam Miklos (45:53):
What about, then?
Any advice you would give thento a medical professional going
into a rural or a remotecommunity.
What's the flip side?
What would you tell them?
How?
What's the flip side that?
What would you?
Annabelle Brayley (46:08):
tell them how to make the most of that
opportunity.
I would say for anybody goinginto a community, but
particularly medicalprofessionals go with an open
mind, be confident in your owncapacity.
Don't be undermined by you know, fear about being out there on
(46:29):
your own, because most peoplenow there are, you know people,
colleges like the AustralianCollege of Rural and Remote
Medicine, certainly RACGP, rural, et cetera I'm sure all of the
colleges and training facilitiesare excluding the universities,
and I have a reason for sayingthat actually have a.
You know they feel stronglyaround supporting their staff.
(46:50):
And obviously recruitmentagencies such as yours and I've
come to know a bit about you,your group just recently clearly
support your staff well whenyou go out.
So from a professionalperspective, they go with that
knowledge.
So don't be afraid to step outthere because you know that you
(47:13):
can always ring.
You know you can always ringback to wherever.
But in terms of actuallysettling into the community, I
would say yes to everyopportunity to socialise, join
the gym, if there is one, findout what the organisations and
social things are in town.
Even if the only thing in townis the CWA, then that's one of
(47:35):
the best places to start.
Go to the CWA and say to themI'm the new doctor, nurse,
physio, whatever in town, and Idon't know anybody and I don't
know what to do.
They'll set you social life,you, doctor, nurse, you know,
physio, whatever in town, and Idon't know anybody and I don't
know what to do.
They'll start your social life,or, you know, just make an
effort to enjoy it for what itis, you know.
Don't go out there thinking, ohmy God, I've got to go to the
bush for four weeks or whateverit is, or you're going to have
(47:58):
to go change the world, yeah.
And also, don't go thinkingyou're going to change the world
.
That too, sam.
Yeah, I think for anybodycoming in, if you move into a
new community, come with an openmind.
Don't try and change anything,just be quiet and learn what's
going on in the community or atwork, whatever.
Get to know the politics beforeyou start trying to change
(48:22):
things.
And when you do join, whateverit is you're trying to change,
and do it from the inside,gently and I think that that
really speaks to anywhere thatany group that you go into, if
you start a new job, if you moveto a new town.
Kate Coomber (48:31):
I think that's not isolated just to if you go into
those communities, butabsolutely not I never don't
need to go in and fix thesecommunities yeah there's that
mentality.
Sam Miklos (48:41):
Is there um one story that, really like for all
the books that you've writtenand certainly we've both read a
number of them is there one thatreally has stayed with you?
Annabelle Brayley (48:52):
um, I think from a professional medical
perspective.
Oh look, there are a number,but I've never, ever forgotten
one of the nurses who was sentto Badoori and I actually think
(49:13):
her story was in Bush Nurses.
In fact, I know it was in BushNurses and I don't think it was
in Nurses of the Outback,although I wrote about her in
Nurses of the Outback.
Anna Burley, she was a nurse onher own.
She was actually worked in thefinance world in New York and I
think maybe London, butcertainly New York, until she
decided that she wanted to dosomething more significant, that
(49:35):
, you know, making lots of moneywas really not doing anything
for the planet or her ownself-esteem.
Anyway.
So she did a nursing training.
She ended up as an RN at aclinic in the Channel Country,
in Badoori, and had a call outone day to a really bad accident
where four kids had been hadrolled a car and they were 80
(49:58):
kilometres out on the DiamantinaRoad, development Road.
Now, this is a long way fromanywhere, long way from RFDS,
long way from everywhere.
And they got a message.
A truckie found them, called inVara Station into Miduri.
Anna and the local policemanwent out.
Somebody went out to theaccident and she was out in the
middle of nowhere with thesefour kids, one of them with, you
(50:20):
know, raccoon eyes, is thatwhat you call it?
You're the one of you you knowmore about nursing than me Like
seriously injured and so farfrom anywhere, and I mean
handled it beautifully.
The outcomes were awful but asgood as they could have been in
the circumstances for the kidsinvolved.
(50:42):
But she managed.
That.
It's just always stayed with methat well-trained staff, not
necessarily confident in themoment, but well-trained staff
who know what they're doing, whoare trained for you know, like
(51:03):
all of the possiblecircumstances, can manage
anything in any circumstance.
If they just take a deep breathand rely on that training.
There will always be thecircumstance they weren't
trained for, but they'll use allthat other experience to work
out how to get through, becausein the end you know who else is
going to like.
(51:24):
You have to step up and Iremember Claire Schmidt, who's
the flying doctor on the frontcover of Bush Doctors, saying
that to me.
She was a young English doctor,she had an army background,
came to Australia almost on a ohyeah, I'll apply, you know, on
night duty one night in Workingout later In UK.
Sam Miklos (51:45):
I'll apply and work out later.
Annabelle Brayley (51:46):
Ended up at the RFDS in Charleville saying
on a flight, her first flightout to you know somewhere, on
her own, saying there is no oneelse, I have to step up.
And that's what you do.
You step up.
And you know, like there willalways be situations where we're
all going to think shoulda,woulda, coulda, you know
whatever.
But you all do the very bestyou can in the circumstance and
(52:10):
I have the absolute utmostrespect for every member of the
medical staff who come intoRural and Remote Australia,
particularly into remote,because you know, you really all
you just make such a difference.
Kate Coomber (52:24):
It's a huge impact .
With every episode, we aredonating $500 to a charity of
our guest choice.
Where is that money going today?
Annabelle Brayley (52:34):
Well, thank you for this opportunity.
It's not quite the usualcharity, but I would really like
this $500 to go to sponsor afuture rural generalist to go to
the RMA 24 conference in Darwinin October.
So that will be via Akram,because I really believe that we
(52:55):
need to encourage all our youngprofessionals to go out and
have what experience they can tomeet the people they can, and I
know from past experience thatgoing to RMA is a really great
opportunity for young futurerural generalists, whether
they're a medical student oralready a qualified doctor, for
future rural generalists to getto know the people they know and
hear the stories they need tohear to encourage them on their
(53:18):
pathway.
Wonderful.
Sam Miklos (53:20):
I love that.
That's a fabulous choice.
I love when any of our guestshave chosen something like that.
That's just that little bitdifferent and that little bit
more specific too.
So that's fabulous.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for your time today.
Honestly, you've just we couldjust have sat here.
We had so many questions foryou that we had to keep culling
them because we could have satand talked to you for a long
(53:40):
time.
But we really appreciate you,particularly being here in
Brisbane and coming all the wayin, and you're clearly so
passionate about rural andremote health and we're so
fortunate to have had some timewith you today.
So thank you, annabelle.
Annabelle Brayley (53:51):
Oh, thanks Sam and thanks Kate.
I really appreciate theopportunity.
Thank you.
Sam Miklos (53:55):
Thanks for listening .
Don't forget to share, rate andreview.
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Thank you.
We care for the land and sea.
We care for the energy.
We care for our community.
We care.
Welcome to it Takes Heart.
(00:21):
I'm Sam Miklos and I'm KateCoomba.
We hope you enjoy theseincredible stories of healthcare
professionals making adifference in communities across
Australia and beyond.
Through our conversations, welook to celebrate the spirit of
community and care.
We acknowledge the traditionalcustodians of the land who have
long practised and sharedancient methods of healing,
providing care and support fortheir communities with wisdom
(00:44):
passed down through generations.
Kate Coomber (00:46):
Join us as we explore what it truly means to
take heart.
Sam Miklos (00:55):
Today we are thrilled to have Annabelle
Braley with us.
She is the true embodiment ofseizing every opportunity.
Though she initially trained asa registered nurse, annabelle's
journey has taken her from aremote sheep station to managing
a federal dementia program,purchasing a news agency and
working on a number of boardroles.
She's even become a publishedauthor, with six books now to
(01:16):
her name, and is a regularcontributor to the RM Williams
Outback magazine.
Annabelle's passion for ruraland remote healthcare shines
through her recent work withRemote Australians Matter, where
she champions equitablehealthcare access for all remote
Australians.
Having recently retired fromher role with the Australian
College of Rural and RemoteMedicine, annabelle now
(01:36):
dedicates her efforts to thisvital cause.
Join us today as we exploreAnnabelle's remarkable journey.
Welcome to it Takes Heart,annabelle.
Annabelle Brayley (01:44):
Thanks Sam, thanks Kate.
It's lovely to be here.
Thank you.
Sam Miklos (01:47):
So I have to first start.
It really resonated with methat you love to seize every
opportunity, and for me that'salways been my motto.
I'm just a yes, yes, details,details, We'll work it out later
.
Tell us about one of thecraziest times you've said yes
to something where it's reallyworked out for you.
Annabelle Brayley (02:08):
I would actually say that I can't really
remember a significant timewhen it hasn't, because I think
that you can always makesomething of everything.
Sam Miklos (02:19):
I love that.
Annabelle Brayley (02:20):
Even if it's only embracing the experience.
So it may not have worked outthe way I thought it should or
hoped it might, but it's, youknow, everything's a learning
opportunity Totally.
And I think you should say youknow, have a go at everything
(02:40):
that interests you and say yesto any opportunity, because you
just don't know where it mightlead.
And for me, certainly thesignificant thing was and it was
prefaced by other yeses thatkind of led me into that
situation but writing the story.
(03:01):
I was asked to write a coverstory for Outback Magazine about
remote health and, just to goback, I actually got into being
a published writer because in2006, we were living in Morven,
we'd moved up there, We'd soldup in 2001, moved up to this
tiny community for five minutesand we're still there because
(03:22):
it's such a fabulous community,community for five minutes.
And we're still there becauseit's such a fabulous community.
And I had done various otherthings.
Anyway, in 2006, I happened towrite to the editor of the
Outback, rm Williams Outbackmagazine and asked were they
sending somebody up to write astory about the Victoria Downs
Marina Stud in our district,which was celebrating their
centenary?
Anyway, the short part of thatstory was that they weren't and
(03:48):
asked me, could I write?
And ultimately I wrote thatarticle and it was the first
paid for article that I had hadpublished.
And I say paid for because thereally exciting bit about it.
I was actually cleaning out adrawer the other day and I
photocopied the che check whenit came from that first story.
It was so exciting.
(04:08):
Yeah, and it's exciting to seeyour words in print.
Sam Miklos (04:12):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Annabelle Brayley (04:13):
So I hadn't expected to have that
opportunity, but you know I did,and some years later, the
magazine asked me would I writea cover story about remote
health?
And I very nearly.
It was towards the end of ayear, I guess, 2011, that it was
(04:34):
going to come out.
I had other things on and Ithought I don't really know that
I have time to do this, and thehonest thing was that I
actually didn't know what acover story was, but I said yes
anyway in the end.
I love that and I wrote thisstory, and I'm pretty sure it
wasn't a very good one, becausethey've never asked me to write
another cover story.
(04:55):
However, as a result of that, Icame home.
It came out in January 2000.
I can't remember which year itwas 2011 or 2012.
And it must have been 2011.
And there was a message on myphone that said this person's
(05:16):
name and I'm an editor fromPenguin Books Australia and I'd
like you to give us a call backand I actually thought you know
somebody.
Kate Coomber (05:23):
I know, but it was a Melbourne phone number.
Annabelle Brayley (05:27):
So I rang the number and sure enough it was
an editor from Penguin Books anda publisher there had read that
article in Outback Magazine andasked me would I be interested
in collating the stories thatultimately became Bush Nurses?
And that was actually aphilanthropic project of theirs.
They do that every now andagain, or they did back in those
(05:48):
days, and the royalties fromthat went to Frontier Services,
which I had worked for at onestage, and you know, like
Frontier Services really in manyways John Flynn, and you know
the origins of all thehealthcare services that we have
(06:08):
in Australia, and so I had thatopportunity and because of that
, when I read some of thestories that came in, I actually
said to the publisher, andrea,like we've got some gobsnacking
stories here.
They are really really amazingstories, fantastic nurses, and
as a result of that they gave mea contract to write Nurses of
(06:30):
the Outback and the books thatfollowed.
And that wouldn't have happenedhad I said no to that cover
story.
Kate Coomber (06:39):
None of that would have happened.
I think that's incredible.
It's really inspiring, isn't it?
Of where you just have to takea chance and thank you for
saying yes here today and comingto see us I have to say this is
not my comfort zone to behonest.
Annabelle Brayley (06:54):
I don't like public speaking and I don't I
like being on the other side ofthe storytelling, of asking the
questions I wanted to ask that,because what do you think makes
a great storyteller?
Sam Miklos (07:04):
you know you've written so many books now, and
now you see yourself as a.
I want to ask that, becausewhat do you think makes a great
storyteller?
You know you've written so manybooks now and now you see
yourself as a storyteller.
Annabelle Brayley (07:10):
What makes a great storyteller.
It took me a long time to getmy head around the idea that I
might actually be a goodstoryteller because I guess in
part because I fell into it youknow one of the things about
anything we do and certainly thesaying yes thing, is, sometimes
(07:32):
it's better if you actuallyhave to apply to do things and
go through the process of youknow whether it's a job or, in
this case, you know, having anopportunity to tell stories,
whatever.
But go through the process ofwinning the role because it
gives it a legitimacy that youdon't normally or I didn't
(07:53):
necessarily feel when thingshave happened, just because I
said yes, but then I realisedthat you know the fact that
you're asked in the first placeprobably counts for something.
Yes, but then I realised thatyou know the fact that you're
asked in the first placeprobably counts for something.
Yes, absolutely.
And so I think that my talent asa storyteller is that I'm very
(08:17):
clear in my own head thatthey're not about me and I'm
actually just a conduit forother people to tell their
stories.
So I'm a tool and I'm actuallyjust a conduit for other people
to tell their story.
So I'm a tool, I can take theirstories and turn them into
something that somebody elsewants to read.
I'm really really pedanticabout accuracy and can be about
detail, et cetera.
(08:38):
I'll check and double-checkthings and if somebody tells me
something that I decide is moreabout their memory or mis-memory
than it is about fact, thenI'll find a way to circumvent it
or not include it.
That kind of stuff, yeah.
But I think that in my case,what makes me a good storyteller
is that I actually am veryclear.
(09:00):
I am telling somebody else'sstory and I don't have anything
to do with it whatsoever.
I don't have any opinion aboutit.
I try not to have preconceivednotions about it.
I'm just the tool for them toshare their story.
Kate Coomber (09:12):
Yeah, I love it, so can we maybe go back and this
is where you are now.
But how did healthcare comeabout?
Sam Miklos (09:26):
Take us way back.
When is it always desire?
Because didn't you want to be ahairdresser?
Annabelle Brayley (09:30):
Yeah, did I really?
I did want to be a hairdresser.
I grew up in a small communityof miles, which is on the
Western Darling Downs.
My parents were bothprofessionals.
My father was the dentist intown.
My mother was a teacher.
Well, she wasn't actually ateacher when I this is a thing.
You'll probably need to remindme of the question you asked,
(09:50):
because I'm just going todigress here for a second.
Go for it.
My mother was actually an onlychild.
She was born in NorthQueensland, had no experience of
you know bush life, or Well,she did, but not living it
herself permanently as an adultwith children etc.
She actually lectured chemistryand physics at Queensland
University and she actuallylectured a lot of, she tutored a
(10:13):
lot of the doctors and dentistswho would now be in their I
guess, 90s I suppose, who wentoff to the Second World War and
came back and resumed university, so that kind of age group in
the early 40s she was tutoringand she married.
(10:33):
My father came to Miles and tothis little bush town with like
the straight out of academia, sohe was from there.
Kate Coomber (10:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Annabelle Brayley (10:44):
And like she must have just been the ultimate
fish out of pond, yeah, I wentto Miles just recently?
Kate Coomber (10:51):
Yeah, you did, and it's probably.
Is it bigger than it would havebeen then?
Annabelle Brayley (10:55):
Oh, certainly , yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but in
some ways it hasn't changed.
You know, like my grandmother'shouse is still in the main
street.
Yeah, and, and excuse me, thereare things about it that are
the same and it's essentially,you know, a small community, but
, yeah, it's grown in many ways.
Sam Miklos (11:15):
So your career.
Annabelle Brayley (11:17):
Yeah, mum actually was able to transfer.
I can't remember the details ofhow this happened, but because
of her qualifications at uni shewas able to translate that into
a teaching qualification.
So she actually went back tothe local high school and taught
(11:38):
when three of my brothers and Iwere.
Three of us were at boardingschool at the same time.
One of them was at university,which is a big undertaking.
So she went back to teaching,which was such a fortunate thing
for some of the kids in thatcommunity because she actually
changed the lives of people inthat community, because she was
such a wonderful teacher and sheopened them up to opportunities
(12:00):
.
It didn't occur to her to sayyou know, you can just be a
farmer.
She was like well, you can go touniversity and be a chemistry
lecturer.
And I know at least one doctorfrom that community and various
other professionals who've kidsfrom that community who became a
doctor, who would say they didit because of the influence of
my mother.
Yeah so, but when we grew upfour brothers I just wanted to
(12:26):
be a hairdresser.
I do have an artistic streakand for me, I don't know why I
wanted to be a hairdresser, butthat's what I wanted to be.
And I keep saying to people youknow, I did train as a nurse
because my father said you'vegot to be a nurse or a teacher,
but I really should have been ahairdresser.
And I don't mean that with anydisparagement to hairdressers,
(12:47):
because I actually think thathairdressers are the world's are
just penultimate counsellors.
Kate Coomber (12:53):
Yeah, oh, absolutely, you know people go
to their hairdresser,particularly women you know,
offload all your joys and yoursadness and whatever, and it's
really critical.
You know, you walk out unhappyand and you come out looking
fabulous.
Annabelle Brayley (13:03):
Yeah, you know, it's just gold.
And so I really should havebeen a hairdresser.
Because the other side of that,of course, is that what I
realised later as a storytelleris that I really just wanted to
hear the stories.
I didn't want to.
I can remember getting intotrouble when I was nursing at PA
for sitting on a patient's bedbecause I was sitting there
talking about you know, they'retelling you their story.
(13:24):
But I didn't realise then thatthat was a thing I could or
might have done.
So I did start my nursingtraining at PA.
I finished it at theCharleville Base Hospital.
Oh, because this was the otherthing.
When Dad said you've got to bea nurse or a teacher because he
knew that I wanted to go andlive in the bush or further west
(13:45):
I said, oh good, well, I'll goand train at Charleville or
Gundawindi, which at the timehad regional training programs.
And he said, no, if you'regoing to be a real nurse, you
know, if you're going to trainproperly, you've got to go to
the city, and I at the time Iwas, you know.
I stomped off to PA and and umstomped back out again about 18
(14:07):
months later, did something elsefor a while and went back and
finished my training inCharleville.
But I saw, experienced andlearned more in 18 months at
Charleville than I did in 18months at Princess Alexandra.
And I would say part of thereason for that is because I at
PA was moved by chance to mostlyyou know specific wards, like
(14:34):
you know children's orthopaedics, renal whatever as opposed to
just a general nursing ward.
And I know in a way there wouldbe nurses who would say but
that's what you're doing,general nursing.
But for me it was just all thewrong place at the wrong time.
Whereas in Charleville,whatever happened you get
involved in and I would say thatto any staff now I mean, we can
(14:55):
come back to this later butcertainly the opportunities for
practising your craft you knowthe thing that you've been
trained for so well for so manyyears the opportunities to
actually embrace that anddeliver that are far greater in
a rural or remote area than theyare in a city hospital.
Kate Coomber (15:16):
Getting the exposure, aren't you?
Oh, totally yeah, and do youthink?
Sam Miklos (15:20):
that that could have .
You know, could a graduate havethat same experience?
Do you think it would be?
You know a graduate would feelas comfortable and supported
going out first year to a rural,remote community and working
there, or do you think there's abenefit to them having some
time in the city?
Annabelle Brayley (15:36):
Well, I personally think that they
should be training in the bush.
I think everybody should betraining there.
I think, you know, we didn't doanybody any good service when
they closed down the hospitaltraining programs and personally
I just think that wasuniversities grabbing money.
Quite frankly, we'll train themand we'll have the money.
I could be completely wrong,but that's what it feels like,
(15:59):
because we took away so much ofthe workforce as well, not just
in rural communities, but in thecity.
You know, it just didn't makeany sense.
Sam Miklos (16:07):
It would have helped too, I imagine, with that if
they were training in thoseregional and rural communities.
If that's someone from the city, they might not have never had
that experience, but they mightbe willing to go back and work
Absolutely, you know they'reexposed to that.
Annabelle Brayley (16:19):
Well, the other side of that was when I
was training at Charleville.
They obviously weren't trainingdoctors, training nurses, and
so they were training assistantnurses and nurse aides at the
Charleville Hospital.
The nurses including me whowere doing registered nursing
training went to the ToowoombaGeneral for a block to do our
(16:41):
lectures, but then we'd go backand we would nurse at Toowoomba
General at the same time.
So we got that dual experience.
But then we went back to thehospitals and we had, you know,
all the sisters were, you know,teaching nurses et cetera, even
if that was just the practicalskills on the floor.
But it was a learningenvironment.
So med students coming intothere or allied health students,
(17:02):
anybody coming into thatenvironment, was coming in and
working in an education,teaching environment, and that's
very different to coming intothe kind of environments we have
now, where we are returning abit to that learning kind of
environment and there'scertainly support networks, but
not the kind of teachingenvironment we had back in those
(17:22):
days.
I don't believe.
And I would say now to anyonewho's half interested in
training, certainly inQueensland, look at the Southern
Queensland Rural Health Hubsorry, the Rural Hub which is a
collaboration between and I'mhoping I'm getting this correct
(17:43):
UniSQ, uq, darling Downs Healthand Southwest Health and
Hospital Service and they havehubs at Charleville, has been
there for a while, st George,and I think they've just opened
one in Chinchilla.
But in Charleville we actuallythey are training nurses again
for the first time and I believethey're also progressing
towards medicine, so that youknow we have nurses, not
(18:08):
necessarily just country girls,but because anybody can apply to
join the program, becauseanybody can apply to join the
program.
But they are training in ruraland remote and I can't just say,
I can't over say how importantthat is.
It will make a difference, yeah.
Sam Miklos (18:27):
In what way?
How do you see that making adifference?
Annabelle Brayley (18:33):
Because they're learning where they're
working.
Kate Coomber (18:34):
You know, there are so many things that are
different.
Annabelle Brayley (18:41):
Many years ago I actually coordinated a
program for the IsolatedChildren's Parents Association,
which was it's a federalorganisation but also has state
context.
And so I coordinated that forQueensland in the late 90s,
bringing student teachers fromQUT into rural and remote
schools for pracs context.
And so I coordinated that forQueensland in the late 90s,
bringing students, studentteachers, from QUT, into rural
and remote schools for pracs.
I set up their pracs where theywent, et cetera, talked to
(19:02):
their parents, came down here,talked to the students before
they came, told them a bit aboutwhere they were going to go,
what they would find.
Parents would ring me and ask meeverything from how will I get
there?
How long will it take?
One even rang me and asked mehow to drive up the Toowoomba
Range.
All of that like just becausepeople don't know, they have no
experience of it.
(19:22):
And so in that same way, Ithink, because it's a very
well-supported and I use theword nurtured advisedly because
I don't think that they'reoverly, you know, helicoptered
or anything, I just thinkthey're well supported Teaching
environment to someone likeCharleville that they're
actually learning their craft onthe ground and having that same
(19:44):
exposure to whatever's going onyou know, if something they
would know what's happening inthe community or over in the
hospital at any one time.
There's, you know, just ano-brainer.
Kate Coomber (19:56):
So did you work as a nurse?
Well, I did for a little while.
Yeah, what was the?
Where did it go from there?
Annabelle Brayley (20:03):
Well, I finished my training.
I worked straight after Igraduated.
I actually went and worked as areceptionist at Grascos in
Charleville, which is a shearingcontractor, yeah right and
moonlighted at a pub at the sametime on Friday nights, because
my heart really wasn't in it.
I should never have been anurse, not in terms of looking
(20:26):
after people and actually makinga difference to their medical
outcomes.
I really should have been ahairdresser to their medical
outcomes.
I really should have been ahairdresser.
But the advantage for me wasthat when it came to writing
about nurses, I had a.
You know, it's like a badge,you know I trained as a nurse.
(20:48):
I get the black humour, I getthe.
I get them.
You can relate and totally andI think, and I'm grateful for
that reason that I did them.
You can relate and totally andI think, and I'm grateful for
that reason that I did, that I'mnot a lot of help in a medical
crisis.
There are some things I can doand not.
But you know I'm not, it's justnot my thing, you know.
Sam Miklos (21:08):
But I'll tell you stories.
I totally appreciate that,because I trained as an
occupational therapist and Iworked clinically for five
minutes, I would say, inToowoomba base and it just
wasn't.
It wasn't there.
But healthcare was something Iwas just so passionate about and
I think it's I understand nowwhen I talk to allied health
(21:28):
professionals, I understand whatthey're doing and their
challenges, but it just wasn'tthe place that I wanted to be.
You went on then and you wereon the board of ARCRM, the
Australian College of Rural andRemote Medicine.
Annabelle Brayley (21:40):
Well, well before that, I got interested in
I mean, look, I've always beeninterested in remote health.
I'm alive and I live out there,so you know we should all be
interested in health and ourhealth outcomes.
It's your health, it is ourhealth.
That health and our healthoutcomes, it's your health, it
is our health.
That's exactly right, or it'syour health?
Yeah, when we sold our propertyand dissolved this partnership
(22:02):
well before that actually, ourkids had gone to boarding school
and my husband said to me oneday you need to get a job
because we were quite remote.
And he said you need to get ajob because otherwise you're
going to end up brain dead.
And I clearly needed somethingto occupy my time.
Yeah, and other than you know,going out and helping.
And now that I look back Ithink, okay, so maybe he was
(22:24):
getting me out of the way.
I hadn't actually thought aboutthat before.
Anyway, so I applied for a jobthat I absolutely was not
qualified for.
And just to correct yourintroduction slightly, yeah, I
wasn't the coordinator of anational dementia respite
program.
However, I did apply to be themanager of a dementia respite
(22:50):
program, which was Auspice RooBlue Care here in Queensland, in
remote Queensland, for which Iabsolutely was not qualified.
But I applied anyway and thiscomes back to that.
You know, have a go like applyfor anything that interests you.
Because for me, part of thatwas just about I'd never applied
for a job ever in my whole life, and when I did that I must
(23:11):
have been 45 or something, youknow.
So I never applied for a job inmy life and so I didn't.
Actually, I learned a lot fromthat process.
I didn't expect to get the jobI mean, I probably hoped to on
some level but the process ofactually applying and asking
(23:32):
people to help me write myapplication, which I did a
friend of mine who was a teacherat Cunnamulla at the time,
helen Miller helped me.
You know finesse my applicationand I actually and I used
things because I didn't have aCV so I used things like my
experience living on a remotecheap station.
(23:54):
You know every now and againyou've got contractors coming in
.
You know you've got to organisesharing.
Through the year I hadhome-tuned my kids, bought up a
family, managed a house, all ofthat sort of stuff.
You're a project manager Exactlyexactly multitasking project
manager and I had also had quitea lot of experience in various
levels with local communitythings and with isolated
(24:17):
children's parents.
I used that coordinating thatteacher thing as one of my
skills on the application and Iactually scored an interview and
was offered a job.
And I remember I came intoToowoomba, I caught the train
down to Toowoomba for theinterview and I went to it in my
best Sunday dress because I hadno idea.
(24:37):
I was so overdressed for it Ihad absolutely no idea what I
was doing.
But they offered me a job as aproject manager with this new
service because they actuallyhad, they got the funding for it
but they hadn't actually set itup.
So I did that for six monthsand then I switched to a role
coordinating the placement ofrespite workers into the homes
(24:59):
of people who were looking aftersomeone with dementia in a
remote area, and so I would go,do the assessments in the homes,
work out who needed to be there, try and match personalities,
which again, coming back tostorytelling was, which I wasn't
doing then.
But that know, kind ofhairdresser, listen to people's
stories, things thing washelpful because it enabled me
(25:20):
hopefully to place the bestperson into any situation, the
most appropriate person, and soI did that for a few years.
I've done, I've done a lot ofactually worked at a lot of jobs
at times, but I stayed workingfor Blue Care in that role for
three years.
It was a pilot program.
(25:40):
The government chose to can it,which was just tragic, because
it actually was.
You know, it was a costly butcost-effective way of keeping
people with dementia at home foras long as possible, and some
of them are quite young peopleliving on farms and properties
where you know going away.
It's not just about you knowpopping down the street to the
nursing home.
(26:00):
This is a whole differentballgame when you live in a
remote area and you have to gosomewhere else for whatever it
just has implications not justfor the person involved and the
immediate family, but for wholecommunities, and so we need to
rethink the way we close thatdistance and that we can come
(26:21):
back to that later as well.
Anyway, I did that for threeyears and then I continued to
work for Blue Care for a coupleof years until I started falling
asleep driving, because I wasdoing a lot of driving around
Queensland.
And I fell asleep one daydriving home.
Fortunately, nobody else was onthe road and I didn't do any
damage.
But it gave me a fright, and itwasn't just, you know, like that
blink.
I actually fell asleep and ranoff the road.
(26:43):
Well, ran, you know.
Anyway, it was fine, nothinghappened.
But I realised that I had toget out and be doing something
else.
So I bought the local newsagency in our little community.
So I bought the local newsagency in our little community
and just quickly I bought that,and a few weeks before I took it
over, I had this conversationwith Outback about writing the
(27:05):
stories, and so I had thisopportunity to write a story,
and I'd just taken over a newsagency and I didn't know where
either was going.
Kate Coomber (27:15):
Anyway, you're in the right spot to market your
own magazine, yeah.
Annabelle Brayley (27:22):
Maybe if I hadn't been negotiating to buy
the magazine who knows I mean tobuy the shop, who knows I
mightn't have thought about.
Actually, you need to write,somebody needs to be writing the
story.
You know, timing is everything.
Sam Miklos (27:34):
Totally.
Kate Coomber (27:35):
You can sense that you are so passionate about the
community that you live in andthat you're a part of even the
newsagent.
You know that understanding ofpeople.
I can just imagine.
It's almost that hairdresserdream of being able to talk to
everybody in the community asthey come in.
Annabelle Brayley (27:49):
I think in a very general sense just sorry, I
am not.
I am a bit passionate about mycommunity in some ways, but I'm
more passionate about communityhaving a say in their
communities, about people havingthe opportunity to be involved
in the decisions that are madeabout their communities.
I know that some people don'twant to be, but none of us are
(28:10):
ever asked and I think you knowI will die pushing for community
to be asked and the firstquestion I will always ask any
organisation is where's yourcommunity representation?
Kate Coomber (28:21):
So if we can get to your current sort of passion
and role, but touching on theAkram role as well, the.
Rural Remote Medical College.
How did that come about?
And I think what's reallyinteresting in this conversation
is that you can work withinhealthcare.
You can work within this areaeven if you don't want to be
(28:41):
clinical Absolutely.
Sam Miklos (28:43):
As you were saying.
Kate Coomber (28:44):
You know, and it's just wonderful to hear all the
different opportunities thatyou've had.
Annabelle Brayley (28:48):
In terms of Akram.
So I got a contract to writeBush Doctors.
Before that happened, Iactually pushed it back.
It was supposed to come out in2016 and I asked the publisher
if we could push it back becauseI wanted to write the stories
about Vietnam, the Australianwomen who nursed in Vietnam, all
the Australians who nursed inVietnam, because some of them
(29:09):
were medics, and so I actuallypushed that back and it took me
two years to get my head out ofVietnam because I essentially
debriefed some of the people Iinterviewed and when I did, it
was because I actually got Ijoined Twitter so I stalk
(29:31):
doctors, yeah, yeah, becausethere are a lot of doctors on
Twitter.
On.
Sam Miklos (29:34):
Twitter they are.
Annabelle Brayley (29:35):
So I actually , literally, was stalking
doctors on Twitter and I found adoctor called Kate Closer, who
and I can't remember whichhappened first whether I read
something on Twitter that shehad been appointed no, she'd
been awarded Registrar of theYear, I think.
Or she was going to theAntarctic, I'm not sure which
(29:58):
caught my attention first, butthat kind of caught my attention
and all of a sudden I was intodoctors and as a result of that,
I discovered the AustralianCollege of Rural and Remote
Medicine, which I'd never heardof and I think probably most
Australians hadn't then, and Igot in contact with them and
Ewan McPhee, who was not I can'tquite remember how I I think he
(30:28):
might have been president ofRural Doctors Association at the
time, I'm not sure, but anyway,I asked him to write the
foreword for the book.
He told me about Akram.
You know, various people weretelling me about Akram, so I got
in touch with them because Icould find more doctors and I
learned what they do, which isactually train doctors
specifically for rural andremote practice, and it was like
, oh my gosh.
(30:48):
You know, here I get it.
I've found a lot of my people,and so I became aware of them.
Anyway, in 2017 or 18, about thetime the book came out but they
decided to advertise for acommunity director on their
board.
They didn't tell me about it.
(31:10):
I read it in the Australian orsomething.
Yeah, right, Anyway.
But when I saw it I thought, ohmy God, I know what that is.
Sam Miklos (31:15):
Yes.
Kate Coomber (31:16):
And this is all that opportunity thing.
Annabelle Brayley (31:17):
I know what that is.
I'm going to apply for thatcompletely unqualified.
I have no skills in theboardroom.
Sam Miklos (31:22):
I know nothing about anything but everything about
it, but I live in the rightplace.
I was just going to say, yeah,you've got the lived experience.
Annabelle Brayley (31:28):
So I actually successfully applied and the
college were fantastic.
They offered me the opportunityto do the course at the
Australian Institute of CompanyDirectors, which I did and
managed to qualify through thatand graduate.
And so that began myassociation with Akram and what
(31:52):
we were able to do was establishtheir community reference group
, which is a really importantpart of the organisation, I
think.
What does that entail?
So when they first asked me tobe a board member, I don't
believe anybody can representanyone collectively on their own
.
So I set up this group and Itold them I was doing it.
(32:12):
I set up this group acrossAustralia of people I knew, so
that if they asked me a questionas a board member or there was
something that I needed to beaware of, that I had people
across Australia I could go toand say, oh, an opinion about
this, that or whatever else.
And so when it came to themthinking you know they wanted a
community reference group, thatwas sort of a natural transition
to start.
Yeah, yeah, so some of thosepeople came onto that first,
(32:36):
which was a pretty kind ofcasual group in the beginning
but was actually formalised, andI chaired that group until I
actually resigned from the board.
I resigned from the board, Ithink, or didn't re-sit, can't
remember which happened, butanyway in 2022, but stayed on as
(32:57):
the chair of the communityreference group until 2023.
And I had a succession plan inplace.
So someone moved in Gus White,who's now the chair of the group
.
You know that was a wellthought out process on behalf of
the College and me, and thatgroup continues to advise the
(33:18):
college in terms of communityinput and opinion about anything
to do with the college and rawand remote medicine.
Sam Miklos (33:26):
Tell us about Remote Australians.
Matter then.
Annabelle Brayley (33:30):
So, as a result of talking with all of
those people, one of the thingsthat became very obvious to me
is that remote gets lost in thereal context.
You know, people are startingto and I say people usually when
I say people I mean decisionmakers, politicians, et cetera,
who are making decisions aboutother people, whether they, you
know, are qualified to or not,and I believe that remote is
(33:54):
just too hard.
Can I just ask?
Sam Miklos (33:55):
you there?
What's the difference, youbelieve, between remote and
rural Australia?
Everything.
Can you describe that Becauseso many people wouldn't be aware
of that?
Annabelle Brayley (34:04):
Okay, so socially, economically,
culturally, demographically,geographically it is different
because everything is moreextreme.
And socially it's more extremebecause distance are further,
and socially it's more extremebecause distance are further, so
it's harder to be social, as inface-to-face socialisation,
(34:25):
everything is, you know, harderto access.
I can remember years ago when Iwas interviewing actually I was
in the Northern Territory in anAboriginal community,
interviewing a nurse for thebook, and the manager of the
clinic happened to be there atthe time and they something like
(34:48):
, and I can't remember what, themachine was, but it was
something basic like the ECG oryou know whatever, and it had
broken down and I said, oh,winston, you weren't arriving.
And they said, well, we orderedit eight months ago and we still
haven't heard when it's comingLike.
So that's kind of an example ofsome of the resourcing problems
.
And it's not that they can'tget it there, it's that it's
(35:08):
like when we need something in aremote area, just get it there.
You know the logistics andpalming off about getting stuff
done is just awful.
You know, just make it happen.
(35:28):
Because one of the things that Ifirmly believe and that at RAM
we believe, is that you can takeany number of services that you
design and you know develop ina metropolitan or even rural
area.
You take them to a remote areaand they're almost destined to
fail because they won't have thesupport networks.
(35:50):
You know the votes, the money,the people, the anything around
it that ensures continuity.
If you design something in aremote area and make it work, it
will work anywhere, because youjust add people and money and
you know whatever.
And so for those reasons, Ithink that remote has to be
(36:14):
considered separately and Ibelieve there's no equitable
access to primary health care inremote Australia, and I believe
that we can do something aboutit.
Every Australian has a right touniversal health care.
Kate Coomber (36:29):
They do yeah, and I think, getting the right
people out there as well,because if they don't have the
resources, I think some of thedoctors that we've spoken to in
this podcast they actuallyreally enjoyed the work in the
community and immersing in thecommunity, but sometimes, if
they don't have access to thepathology, they need the imaging
that they need.
They want to make sure they'remaking the best decisions with
(36:51):
the best outcomes.
I think there's a bit of asorry, I'm interrupting.
No, not at all.
I think it's just making surethat they've got the resources,
like the machinery that works,so that they can help people.
Annabelle Brayley (37:03):
And it needs to be the basic machinery that
works, though it doesn't need tobe.
You know, I think we rely a loton technology in medicine these
days, and I don't think that'sdoing anyone any favours either.
I can remember one of thenurses, chris Belshaw, who used
to be an RFDS nurse, saying youneed to eyeball your patient.
(37:27):
You know, you need to be ableto look at the patient.
Don't look at the machine, lookat the patient.
And I've had doctors say thesame thing.
Really good remote doctors andnurses who will say look at the
patient.
Like you know, don't beworrying about the gizmos, yeah,
yeah, but you do need the basicones.
Sam Miklos (37:45):
You do need the basic ones to actually
facilitate, you know, good basiccare I think what's the work
then I'm just going to say thatwhat's the what's the work then
that rams is trying to do toclose these gaps well, ram's not
fixing anything Right.
Annabelle Brayley (37:59):
So Remote Australians Matter is a group of
there were five, there'scurrently four, and we're a very
defined demographic and we'revery aware of that, so we don't
claim to represent anybodywhatsoever.
What we're trying to do is setup a conduit that enables remote
Australians to get involved inthe decisions that are made
(38:20):
about their primary health care.
Access to primary health carewe need place-based, innovative,
sustainable primary health careaccess on community, whatever
that is and community isdifferent things to different
people and there's absolutely,without doubt, the Royal Flying
Doctor Service does amazingservice across the country, and
they do deliver great primaryhealth care, but they're not,
(38:42):
they don't go to everybody orthey're not accessible to
everybody for whatever reason,and all those clinic runs aren't
, and so we need to make surethat every remote Australian can
access the primary health carethey need, particularly children
under five.
You know so the kids startschool.
Education and health areinexplicably linked.
(39:03):
In my opinion, kids should bestarting school knowing that
they can hear, knowing that theycan see properly, knowing that
their walking's straight,knowing that their spines are
straight, knowing that theireyesight is all of those things,
and that's not happening Now.
It may not be happening in thecity, I don't know.
But people who live in metroareas or even rural areas can
(39:23):
more easily get to somewherewhere they can access those
things.
For people who live in remoteAustralia that is just not
always possible and telehealthdoesn't cut it.
Rfds is the original telehealthproviders in my opinion, they've
been doing telehealth since theday they've got the radios
going.
Providers in my opinion,they've been doing telehealth
since that day they've got theradios going.
(39:45):
But that's a completelydifferent um scenario for um,
you know, the modern day versionof telehealth to be um promoted
as an option, as an alternativeto good primary health care
access is just not viablebecause you have to.
It's that eyeballing thepatient thing.
Um, you know, mostly rfds willbe mostly um from primary health
(40:06):
care.
They will be doing umtelehealth over the phone or
whatever with people that theysee on a clinic run, you know,
or that they have a history of,etc.
So, um, we need we we reallyneed to focus on remote
australia and make things workthere for a whole lot of reasons
that include national securityand biosecurity and border
security, et cetera, and fixthat and then we can translate
(40:28):
that elsewhere and more peopleresources, then more clinics
more people Depends on what youmean by people.
Yes, definitely to all levels ofmedical staff.
I don't think doctors on theirown can fix this.
I think that we need to take acollaborative view of delivering
healthcare to remote Australia,that we need to be.
(40:50):
It could be, for instance, mostcommunities not everyone, but
most communities will have anurse or someone who trained as
a nurse, or someone who, like,is almost a nurse or whatever,
like there'll be a nurse-likefigure in just about every
community, and they're often thelinchpins of the community.
So they're obviously reallyimportant.
But I think, from acollaborative view, that we need
(41:13):
to be thinking about okay, sowho's in any community that has
any health experience?
And that, for me, includes vets, who are really some of the
most, you know, the smartest,most highly trained medical
deliverers in the country.
They just happen to bedelivering to people, to animals
, who?
Kate Coomber (41:28):
can't talk back to them.
Annabelle Brayley (41:29):
So you know, but I think that if we took a
view that we could set upplace-based sustainable, set up
place-based sustainable, youknow, kind of collaborative
primary healthcare options thatmay, in a very tiny community,
revolve around a person who hassome medical knowledge, who can
(41:52):
be the you know, on the draftinggate, you know you come to them
and you say, okay, look, I'vegot this problem and they will
be okay.
So we've built this team.
Now the team's going to looklike different things in
different places.
It could be a building on thestreet or it could be, you know,
a phone call to a team.
It could be.
This is where it comes into.
Communities need to work outwhat suits them, but somebody
(42:15):
who can facilitate that accessto whatever it is they need.
Now, the context I'm talkingabout there sounds a bit more
emergent than primary healthcare, but if we have that level
established, then surely thatcan be established on the
foundations of a primary healthcare access that works for
(42:35):
everybody.
One of the other things weachieve with all of this course
is that if people have access toprimary health care early and
they get into the habit ofaccessing it, then not only are
they learning the things thatthey need to know about their
own health management butthey're also learning the
language.
That gives them the healthliteracy they need to be in
(42:57):
control of their health outcomes, and health literacy, as you
would know, is a huge thing,absolutely huge.
But we definitely need to bringmore medical staff into remote
Australia.
Kate Coomber (43:09):
And so I guess, if there are people who live in
rural remote areas listening andyou talk a lot about the
community involvement and theyreally need to drive this, what
can they do?
Annabelle Brayley (43:19):
Well, for starters, they can get to know
who their local medical staffare, you know, just socially,
just find out who's around andmake them welcome into the
community.
I think also that they can beresponsible for their own health
.
I think we should all beresponsible for our health
outcomes Sorry, not for ourhealth outcomes, for our health
(43:40):
outcomes, sorry, not for ourhealth outcomes, for our health
management.
And I mean that I don't meanyou have to know how to fix
stuff, I mean you have to knowthat it's your responsibility
and you need to go to the doctoror the nurse or whoever it is
you need to go to and find outwhat's wrong and find out how to
fix it.
Because everyone knows thestatistics, particularly in
(44:04):
remote Australia, are muchhigher for things around.
You know smoking, drinking,obesity, whatever, apparently
and certainly life expectationis shorter.
But a lot of that is becauseyou know that access is not
available.
So people don't think abouttaking responsibility.
I mean, some people do.
I know a lot of people who takeresponsibility for their health
(44:25):
management, and some of them invery remote areas.
But in general it's anenvironment we need to work on
and encourage people to bebetter involved in.
So there's that, but there'salso, I think, communities need
to, regardless of where they are, communities need to,
(44:46):
regardless of where they are,need to not think about their
medical professionals as anentitlement or something that
they have a right to.
We all have a right to expectequitable access to primary
health care, but I do not havethe right to walk up to you, dr
Kate, in the grocery store andask you about my ingrown toenail
, because you know that's likeyou're a person.
(45:07):
All these medical professionalsare still people and they need
to have a life.
And one of the reasons I thinkthat and look, I didn't always
think this way, I've had a lotof years to think it through and
different environments to manypeople to think it through in
that the first time I heard amedical professional say to me,
you know we need life balance,I'm like really.
(45:27):
But of course we do.
You know we all want to liveour lives the way we want to
live them, and so should medicalpractitioners.
So community again need to beresponsible for respecting the
demarcation lines around thelives of their medical
professionals and embrace themsocially.
But if you want to embrace themprofessionally, make an
(45:49):
appointment when their surgeryis open on Monday morning.
Kate Coomber (45:52):
Respect the boundaries a little bit.
Sam Miklos (45:53):
What about, then?
Any advice you would give thento a medical professional going
into a rural or a remotecommunity.
What's the flip side?
What would you tell them?
How?
What's the flip side that?
What would you?
Annabelle Brayley (46:08):
tell them how to make the most of that
opportunity.
I would say for anybody goinginto a community, but
particularly medicalprofessionals go with an open
mind, be confident in your owncapacity.
Don't be undermined by you know, fear about being out there on
(46:29):
your own, because most peoplenow there are, you know people,
colleges like the AustralianCollege of Rural and Remote
Medicine, certainly RACGP, rural, et cetera I'm sure all of the
colleges and training facilitiesare excluding the universities,
and I have a reason for sayingthat actually have a.
You know they feel stronglyaround supporting their staff.
(46:50):
And obviously recruitmentagencies such as yours and I've
come to know a bit about you,your group just recently clearly
support your staff well whenyou go out.
So from a professionalperspective, they go with that
knowledge.
So don't be afraid to step outthere because you know that you
(47:13):
can always ring.
You know you can always ringback to wherever.
But in terms of actuallysettling into the community, I
would say yes to everyopportunity to socialise, join
the gym, if there is one, findout what the organisations and
social things are in town.
Even if the only thing in townis the CWA, then that's one of
(47:35):
the best places to start.
Go to the CWA and say to themI'm the new doctor, nurse,
physio, whatever in town, and Idon't know anybody and I don't
know what to do.
They'll set you social life,you, doctor, nurse, you know,
physio, whatever in town, and Idon't know anybody and I don't
know what to do.
They'll start your social life,or, you know, just make an
effort to enjoy it for what itis, you know.
Don't go out there thinking, ohmy God, I've got to go to the
bush for four weeks or whateverit is, or you're going to have
(47:58):
to go change the world, yeah.
And also, don't go thinkingyou're going to change the world
.
That too, sam.
Yeah, I think for anybodycoming in, if you move into a
new community, come with an openmind.
Don't try and change anything,just be quiet and learn what's
going on in the community or atwork, whatever.
Get to know the politics beforeyou start trying to change
(48:22):
things.
And when you do join, whateverit is you're trying to change,
and do it from the inside,gently and I think that that
really speaks to anywhere thatany group that you go into, if
you start a new job, if you moveto a new town.
Kate Coomber (48:31):
I think that's not isolated just to if you go into
those communities, butabsolutely not I never don't
need to go in and fix thesecommunities yeah there's that
mentality.
Sam Miklos (48:41):
Is there um one story that, really like for all
the books that you've writtenand certainly we've both read a
number of them is there one thatreally has stayed with you?
Annabelle Brayley (48:52):
um, I think from a professional medical
perspective.
Oh look, there are a number,but I've never, ever forgotten
one of the nurses who was sentto Badoori and I actually think
(49:13):
her story was in Bush Nurses.
In fact, I know it was in BushNurses and I don't think it was
in Nurses of the Outback,although I wrote about her in
Nurses of the Outback.
Anna Burley, she was a nurse onher own.
She was actually worked in thefinance world in New York and I
think maybe London, butcertainly New York, until she
decided that she wanted to dosomething more significant, that
(49:35):
, you know, making lots of moneywas really not doing anything
for the planet or her ownself-esteem.
Anyway.
So she did a nursing training.
She ended up as an RN at aclinic in the Channel Country,
in Badoori, and had a call outone day to a really bad accident
where four kids had been hadrolled a car and they were 80
(49:58):
kilometres out on the DiamantinaRoad, development Road.
Now, this is a long way fromanywhere, long way from RFDS,
long way from everywhere.
And they got a message.
A truckie found them, called inVara Station into Miduri.
Anna and the local policemanwent out.
Somebody went out to theaccident and she was out in the
middle of nowhere with thesefour kids, one of them with, you
(50:20):
know, raccoon eyes, is thatwhat you call it?
You're the one of you you knowmore about nursing than me Like
seriously injured and so farfrom anywhere, and I mean
handled it beautifully.
The outcomes were awful but asgood as they could have been in
the circumstances for the kidsinvolved.
(50:42):
But she managed.
That.
It's just always stayed with methat well-trained staff, not
necessarily confident in themoment, but well-trained staff
who know what they're doing, whoare trained for you know, like
(51:03):
all of the possiblecircumstances, can manage
anything in any circumstance.
If they just take a deep breathand rely on that training.
There will always be thecircumstance they weren't
trained for, but they'll use allthat other experience to work
out how to get through, becausein the end you know who else is
going to like.
(51:24):
You have to step up and Iremember Claire Schmidt, who's
the flying doctor on the frontcover of Bush Doctors, saying
that to me.
She was a young English doctor,she had an army background,
came to Australia almost on a ohyeah, I'll apply, you know, on
night duty one night in Workingout later In UK.
Sam Miklos (51:45):
I'll apply and work out later.
Annabelle Brayley (51:46):
Ended up at the RFDS in Charleville saying
on a flight, her first flightout to you know somewhere, on
her own, saying there is no oneelse, I have to step up.
And that's what you do.
You step up.
And you know, like there willalways be situations where we're
all going to think shoulda,woulda, coulda, you know
whatever.
But you all do the very bestyou can in the circumstance and
(52:10):
I have the absolute utmostrespect for every member of the
medical staff who come intoRural and Remote Australia,
particularly into remote,because you know, you really all
you just make such a difference.
Kate Coomber (52:24):
It's a huge impact .
With every episode, we aredonating $500 to a charity of
our guest choice.
Where is that money going today?
Annabelle Brayley (52:34):
Well, thank you for this opportunity.
It's not quite the usualcharity, but I would really like
this $500 to go to sponsor afuture rural generalist to go to
the RMA 24 conference in Darwinin October.
So that will be via Akram,because I really believe that we
(52:55):
need to encourage all our youngprofessionals to go out and
have what experience they can tomeet the people they can, and I
know from past experience thatgoing to RMA is a really great
opportunity for young futurerural generalists, whether
they're a medical student oralready a qualified doctor, for
future rural generalists to getto know the people they know and
hear the stories they need tohear to encourage them on their
(53:18):
pathway.
Wonderful.
Sam Miklos (53:20):
I love that.
That's a fabulous choice.
I love when any of our guestshave chosen something like that.
That's just that little bitdifferent and that little bit
more specific too.
So that's fabulous.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for your time today.
Honestly, you've just we couldjust have sat here.
We had so many questions foryou that we had to keep culling
them because we could have satand talked to you for a long
(53:40):
time.
But we really appreciate you,particularly being here in
Brisbane and coming all the wayin, and you're clearly so
passionate about rural andremote health and we're so
fortunate to have had some timewith you today.
So thank you, annabelle.
Annabelle Brayley (53:51):
Oh, thanks Sam and thanks Kate.
I really appreciate theopportunity.
Thank you.
Sam Miklos (53:55):
Thanks for listening .
Don't forget to share, rate andreview.
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