August 11, 2025 • 36 mins
Dorothy Dowling interviews Brian Hicks, CEO of the Hospitality Sales and Marketing Association International. They discuss Brian's career journey, the importance of intentional career paths, effective team leadership, the significance of networking, and the evolving landscape of technology and innovation in the hospitality industry.
“Understand your personal purpose—know where you add the most value—and invest deeply in relationships. Connections may open doors, but it’s the relationships you nurture that will shape your career.” – Brian Hicks, CEO, HSMA
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Episode Transcript
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Dorothy Dowling (00:11):
Greetings.
I am Dorothy Dowling, andwelcome to its Personal Stories,
a hospitality podcast dedicatedto empowering professionals
Through the lived experiences ofinspire inspiring industry
leaders, this is a platform forlearning, leadership, and
personal transformation.
Today I am honored to be joinedby Brian Hicks, CEO of the
(00:31):
Hospitality Sales and MarketingAssociation International, an
organization dedicated togrowing business for hotels.
Their partners througheducation, insights, and
community.
Brian, welcome to the show.
It's delightful to have you.
Brian Hicks (00:45):
Thank you so much, Dorothy.
It's a pleasure to be here andthank you very much for inviting
me.
Dorothy Dowling (00:49):
Wonderful.
Brian, I hope we can just getstarted right at the beginning
of your career and have youshape or start with what
inspired your journey into thehospitality industry.
Brian Hicks (01:00):
Sure.
I I'm one of the few people inthe hotel industry that actually
knew I wanted to go into thehotel industry at a very early
age.
My, I was blessed growing up,being able to travel quite a bit
with my parents to local, localdestinations, but also a few
international destinations thatjust really sparked travel in
(01:22):
me.
And it was something that Ijust.
I got that bug very early on,and then I had the, was in a
couple of really just beautifulhotels and just when you walk in
the doors of, some amazingproperties, you just get this
sense of awe.
And I had that sense very earlyon.
And I just knew that this wasgonna be an industry that was
gonna welcome me because youlook across the industry, it's
(01:45):
such a diverse group of peoplethat really attracted me as
well.
And just the idea of travel andbeing able to go to new places,
experience new things, newfoods, new cultures, et cetera.
Even within the United States.
It didn't have to beinternational, but just new
destinations.
So I yeah, I got very lucky andthis is all I've ever done my
entire career, which I, there's,I think there's very few people
(02:08):
these days that can say that aswell.
But I when I had an opportunityto go to university my parents
said, we understand you want togo into hotels, but maybe you
should just get a generalbusiness degree first and then
go from there.
So I took their advice, whichyou normally do when you're 17
or 18 years old.
And I did that for a coupleyears and realized, no, I I want
(02:30):
to go into hotel schools.
So I transferred over after twoyears, completed my degree from
University of Wisconsin Stoutin, in hotel management and
never looked back.
It's it's just something that'sattracted me my entire career
and best decision I could haveever made.
Dorothy Dowling (02:46):
You know something, Brian, I think you're
one of the few people that wehave interviewed that you have
had an intentional path to thehospitality industry.
Most are accidental, exactlyright.
Yep.
I think that's incredible.
I'm just wondering if we can diga little deeper and have you
share some of the most definingmoments in your career that
really helped shape yourleadership journey and how you
(03:07):
approach problem solving.
Brian Hicks (03:09):
Absolutely there, there are quite a few defining
moments I've had in typicalhotel career where I've moved
around a lot and I've workedfor, a number of different
companies.
There were a few kind of keymoments though in my career.
One was my internship that waspart of my university degree
with Hyatt Hotels.
I went to Hilton Head Island.
(03:30):
There were probably 30 otherinterns there at the time.
A great group of people.
Some of them are still in theindustry, very few, but some,
but I took the opportunity thereto really focus on getting the
best out of that experience.
And one of the things that I didwas instead of rotating through
the typical housekeeping frontdesk restaurant, I actually
(03:52):
stayed in housekeeping my entirenine months that I had my
internship.
And what that allowed me was theopportunity to get.
Supervisory experience in thatrole since I was staying there
for almost nine months, and thenwhen I graduated.
I was looking for, looking for ajob like everybody is.
(04:12):
And the fact that I had thatsupervisory experience actually
was a big part of how I was ableto land a Junior Housekeeping
manager role.
With the Ritz-Carlton HotelCompany, and that was just an
ama.
I looked at what my otherfriends, the roles that they
were getting, many of them wereentry level, maybe management
training, and I had a solidsalaried position right outta
(04:37):
university.
But I took a chance and I reallydid take that chance to say, you
know what?
I'm gonna focus on where am Igonna get the most value in
terms of my career and my steps.
And the Ritz-Carlton HotelCompany was absolutely a
defining moment in my career.
I spent over six years there attheir flagship property at the
time, which is in Buckhead,Atlanta.
(04:58):
And the corporate office wasattached.
This was pre, I'm dating myself,but this was pre Marriott
involvement in any way, shape,or form.
And, it was an amazing learningexperience, such a great focus
on the guest service aspectgrowing your managerial skills,
leadership skills and that wasjust an incredible experience.
And definitely a defining momentin my career to be able to grow
(05:22):
and just really developed.
And then from there I joined IHGafter about six years with Ritz
Carlton, and I had over 26 yearswith IHG.
And one of my defining momentsthere was when I had the
opportunity to go overseas andwork out of the London office
and oversee revenue managementfor not only Europe, but also
(05:44):
for Asia and part of the MiddleEast.
I'd been in.
Commercial operations for manyyears.
Thought I knew it all feltreally confident going into, a
new territory, a new region.
But man, you get, you learn veryquickly how much you don't know
about.
Global other regions, some ofthe challenges there.
(06:06):
So it is, yeah, it's a big, it'sa big deal and was definitely a
defining moment.
And I spent close to seven yearsthroughout Europe, Asia, middle
East, and absolutely crafted mycareer and certainly gave me an
edge in terms of next stepsthroughout my career.
Dorothy Dowling (06:24):
I love both of those stories, Brian, because I,
it's, it sounds to me like evenas a student, you were very
intentional about shaping yourcareer and, really thinking
about how to enter the industrywith some substance behind you.
So I, I think that's a reallyimportant message for our
audience.
I also.
Really do love the way youdefine your international
(06:44):
journey.
'cause I too have had some ofthose experiences and I do think
we often find what we don't knowwhen we land into those places.
And it, it really is incrediblyimpactful to be immersed in
different cultures and learnfrom others and have them really
help shape your both, yourintellectual and your leadership
journey.
So thank you for sharing that.
(07:07):
Yeah.
I'm wondering if we can talk alittle bit about, because
obviously in the role thatyou're in now and certainly
roles you've had before, you'vehad a very demanding travel
schedule.
You've worked with globalpartners, of course, which all
have different stakeholders, allwith different needs and
expectations.
I'm just wondering if you cantalk a little bit about how you
maintain your personal energyand balance for yourself and for
(07:29):
the people that you're leading.
Brian Hicks (07:32):
Yeah, that's a great question and it is
something that I don't thinkenough executives focus on
specifically towards their team.
I have some great ways to,decompress myself personally.
I love the outdoors.
I love getting out on water.
I'm a huge music fan, so youknow, I look forward to the next
big concert or festival that'scoming up.
(07:54):
I think that personally for me,I always have to have a trip.
Or a festival or somethingplanned.
And as long as it's in thecalendar I know that time is
coming and you almost worktowards it, right?
You kind of work towards keepingyour energy levels at the right
pace and working towards it.
But one of the absolute keys tomy success has been my focus on
my team members and focus onpeople and understanding where
(08:16):
they are and really questioningthem.
When is your next vacation?
When is your next time torecharge?
And having that empathy to knowthat, sometimes if somebody's
having, a bad day, just givethem a break and let it go and
re you know, re restart thatconversation at a different
time.
(08:36):
And I think, post COD we've seenmore and more challenges in that
space and I think having a bitmore empathy, but.
Being very deliberate in askingthose questions.
Sometimes we just assumeeverybody's okay unless we hear
something right.
But if you can really keep apulse on your team to see where
their energies are leading them,I think that absolutely will
(08:58):
make somebody's career so mucheasier.
And it just gives you such abetter sense of what you could
push onto the team.
And when do you need to back offand when can you really start
to, to really drive the teamknowing that everybody's.
Energized and everybody's readyto go.
That has a big impact on theoverall organization's success.
Dorothy Dowling (09:17):
I do think that focus on your team's health and
really trying to have thatpersonalized approach to
leadership.
I, I just heard this brilliantspeaker at GBTA this week that
was talking about the CEOs oftoday and tomorrow.
That understanding of being anempathetic leader and being
highly tuned to their team'sneeds is really the ones that
are gonna power us into thefuture.
(09:38):
I appreciate you sharing that,Brian, and also the
understanding that you have tothink about each individual in
terms of what do they need,because everyone has different
things that energize them.
But that focus on teamwork Ithink is critical for all
leaders today.
So thank you for sharing that.
I agree.
I wonder if we can talk a littleabout networks now because
you've obviously been engagedthroughout your career, and I
(10:00):
would love for you to share howprofessional networks and your
industry relationships havereally.
Shaped your growth opened doors,and how do you advise others to
really cult, cultivate thosekinds of meaningful connections?
Brian Hicks (10:15):
The term networking, right?
It gets thrown around a lot.
And I think as an industry.
We're probably on the top end ofnetworking, right?
We're a hospitality org,industry, we like talk.
You don't get into this industryif you don't like talking to
people.
If you do, you're in the wrongindustry.
So I think, those connectionsare great.
(10:35):
I think taking it to the nextlevel with a very tight group of
individuals is what has beenvery effective for me in terms
of networking.
I have a very small group, aboutfive individuals that I connect
with on a regular basis, and youbuild that trust over time.
And while they may not beexperts in my industry, some of
(10:57):
them have just been longtimefriends they know me well enough
to be able to help guide someand give some good advice and
give some good direction as tohow to maybe tackle some of the
challenges that are ahead.
But in that same vein.
Networking within this industryis how people are getting ahead,
and that just seems to be acommon trend that has been
(11:18):
around forever, but I think it'sback these days as there's a
little bit of skepticism aroundsome of the technology that's
out there to drive, whether itbe driving to try to find a new
position, trying to findassistance, trying to find just,
colleagues to help out.
That networking side of thosepersonal relationships and those
personal interactions are somuch more important today.
(11:41):
And if you think about thefuture of AI and being able to
put out.
A personalized video directly tome from a hotel company, but I
know instantaneously that it, itwas completely AI generated.
I think that has a place, right?
But if it's going, if it needsto go to that next level.
(12:04):
That's not gonna cut it.
And I actually think that'sactually going to drive more
networking and more personalinteractions within our industry
because we do crave that andpeople want that face-to-face.
They want that engagement.
So staying engaged with.
The right people and is reallycritical I think, to this next
generation and even, people thathave been around for a while
(12:25):
wanting to grow their career.
And in that same vein, I thinkfor somebody who is just
starting out trying to buildtheir network.
You need to find places whereyou're comfortable and find
places where you feel that youare going to gain something,
that there's going to be peopleof similar interests that you
(12:46):
have.
And hopefully that would besomething that you would
definitely be attracted to.
You would start to see similarpeople have similar aspirations
and they would really start tothen grow their network and grow
their career in that sense.
Dorothy Dowling (13:00):
Yeah, no I think that's extremely well
articulated.
And I do think, HSM ai, theorganization that you lead,
really affords people thatability to build a lot of those
relationships and, find mentorsthat hopefully can power their
careers?
Brian Hicks (13:15):
A absolutely.
We were talking earlier aboutBob Gilbert, the former CEO of
H-S-M-A-I, and when I've knownBob for a number of years before
he passed, he was such anamazing individual.
And when I think about thenumber of careers that he has
touched and has driven and hasgrown in his role in H-S-M-A-I
it's astounding.
(13:37):
Even people that have been outof the industry for many years
comment on how much Bob really,changed their trajectory,
changed their career, and reallyinspired them.
And if I could bring just afraction of what Bob has brought
to the organization in terms ofthe networking opportunities and
building individual's careers, Iwill feel extremely grateful.
Dorothy Dowling (13:59):
Yeah, no I share that perspective on Bob,
Brian, and I appreciate yousaluting him the way you have,
because I do think he's beenvery special to many of us and
has had a profound impact onmany careers and just people's
understanding of, how toapproach some of their
challenges in their existingjobs.
So thank you for that attribute.
Absolutely.
(14:20):
I am wondering if we can talk alittle bit about problem solving
because I know that revenuemanagement is a science, and I'm
just wondering when you arecounseling others in terms of
complex challenges that theymight be facing how do you guide
them in terms of getting to rootcauses if they aren't
immediately clear?
(14:41):
Is there any advice you have forour audience?
Brian Hicks (14:44):
I spent most of my career in revenue management and
I am a absolute data junkie.
Data-driven approach to problemsolving is my first step.
It always has been.
And that comes with its ownchallenges because you can't
always trust the data.
You can't make decisions based ahundred percent on data.
Always like to use the exampleof you see some challenges in
(15:06):
the data, but what you don'tunderstand is that the hotel
down the street had a flood andjust took out a hundred rooms
out of their inventory.
There are other elements to justtaking a data-driven, a approach
to problem solving, but that,that needs to be the first step.
Absolutely needs to be the firststep in identifying how to
summarize the problem.
(15:26):
How to really see where the keyissues are, understand the
environment understand ifthere's any kind of economic,
political or anything elsethat's shaping some of those
challenges to really get to thebottom of it.
Next step for me is really, I ama collaborator.
And in this industry there areso many experts in different
(15:47):
areas.
If you're not listening to thoseother expertise areas you're
only gonna get a fraction of thepicture.
So really thinking about who doyou want to bring into that
conversation, bringing thoseindividuals in.
Listening, always being the lastto speak is my kind of motto,
especially if I'm bringing in myteam.
I'm not.
I don't wanna plant any biases.
(16:09):
I don't wanna plant any,conclusions.
I want them to really start tothink about what the issues are
and bring them up.
I really push people to speak upin those environments as well.
And then the last of it, whichis really just breaking down any
kind of silos or any kind oflack of collaboration between
team members.
Because there again, that canalso be something that'll hinder
(16:32):
the true picture.
If you have two individuals thatmight be coming at it and not
sharing a hundred percent ofwhat their knowledge base is and
almost keeping things to theirchest, and that seems to drive
drive people.
It drives me, Matt.
It is.
It's just something that I can'tdeal with.
That's really the threeapproaches that I take to really
trying to solve, complex issuesand get to a solution.
Dorothy Dowling (16:55):
I love that framing of starting with data
but not being exclusivelyfocused on the data.
Brian.
And I also love that aspect ofbringing others in because I do
think bringing diverse opinionsis always healthy for us to
hopefully see through some ofthose blind spots.
And then I do think that forcingof individuals to actually step
up and not just.
(17:15):
You shape that direction of thatdecision.
I think that's a really powerfulmessage to leaders because
that's a hard thing to dosometimes to sit back and let
others speak first.
So I appreciate you sharingthat.
I will tell you the speaker onMonday that spoke at you Pate,
spoke exactly about thatskillset.
Excellent.
So thank.
Thank you.
(17:35):
Good.
I'm wondering if we can talk alittle bit about communication,
because obviously that's areally important leadership
skill.
You have a awful lot ofopportunities or challenging
engagements that are put beforeyou.
I'm just wondering what you havelearned about connecting with an
audience whether it's a smallgroup of executives or getting
(17:56):
up on a big stage.
If there's anything that youwould like to share with our
listeners.
Brian Hicks (18:01):
I think preparation is the key.
It's been the key to my success.
I enjoy speaking in front ofpeople, but it's also something
that I know has to constantly becrafted and it's something that
I'm constantly working on.
I've seen people that havestarted off their careers where
they've been put into a positionwhere they have to do a lot of
(18:22):
speaking and maybe they'respeaking at a board meeting,
maybe they're speaking to alarge audience.
And they really struggledbecause it's a natural part of
your career progression, and ifyou're not prepared for it, it
can really step you back andreally, I, and I had an
opportunity, I think very earlyon in my career where I did step
into a boardroom and was put onthe spot.
(18:44):
And I did not do well.
I I started shaking.
It was I really knew at thatpoint that this is not gonna go
well.
So I I took that learning toreally ensure that I was
prepared and, we've talked aboutimposter syndrome and what have
you, but.
Instead of having that idea ofthat imposter syndrome, I would
(19:07):
take the approach of I know whatI know and I know it well, and I
may not have all the answers,and I'm not gonna go in there
and start to make things up ortry to answer questions that I'm
not prepared for.
But I am going to share all thatI know all that I'm prepared to
speak, and that builds a bit ofconfidence when you're talking
to a large audience or a smallaudience.
(19:28):
And I think, in the hospitalityindustry, you have a lot of mini
pro, mini issues that pop up ona regular basis, like these
really mini fires.
And you have to take the sameapproach, go in with what you
know assume, assume nothing andjust really start to find out
what the all the issues are.
Bring your knowledge, bringeverything, be prepared as
possible.
But you have to be open to, youhave to have an open mind going
(19:50):
into a lot of those things.
But in terms of public speaking,it's something that again, I
enjoy doing, but I know I havegot to prepare.
And I know I have a long way togo.
I.
Always trying to hone thatcraft.
Because it is important in thisindustry, it's important in my
role, it's important forcommunication and what I'm doing
today.
So if I can't relate toindividuals in the audience
(20:10):
they're just gonna shut down,right?
They're not gonna listen andyou're not gonna get your
message across, and that's thekey.
Dorothy Dowling (20:16):
I think that whole mindset of preparing and I
do appreciate you beingvulnerable and sharing, in an
early career moment where thingsdidn't go well, Brian, because I
do think that's important forleaders too.
Share some of their failurestoo, because I think a lot of
people feel like leaders justnever had any bad things happen
to them.
Yeah.
And they do afford us, prettypowerful learning opportunities.
(20:39):
But I also share yourperspective that preparation is
the only thing that we can do interms of.
Making sure that we do the bestto control the outcomes and
making everyone have a goodexperience.
And I do think manyunderestimate the time and
effort it takes to truly beprepared.
So I appreciate you.
Yeah.
Reinforcing that message, not towing it and to really be very
(21:03):
purposeful in, in, andintentional.
And when you're in front of anaudience,
Brian Hicks (21:07):
You're gonna be put on the spot.
And so many times withoutthroughout your career in
executive roles.
So make sure the ones where youhave an opportunity to prepare
for you do, because you're, youare gonna get caught off guard
at other times.
You don't want that to happenall the time.
Dorothy Dowling (21:22):
A hundred percent.
Brian, I think extraordinarilywell said.
I wonder if we can talk a littlebit about commercial leadership
and hospitality, because, Ithink you and I both would say
that the hospitality industryhas been.
Very often viewed as a verytraditional industry.
I do think it is on the edge ofvery significant transformation.
(21:42):
I think many are speaking tothat.
I'm just wondering what you seesome of the greatest
opportunities for innovation inour industry in the next three
to five years.
Brian Hicks (21:51):
I think it's.
An extremely exciting time to bewithin the commercial
discipline.
We, you're right, we've alwaysbeen viewed as a very
traditional kind of, revenueManagement was very simple in
most people's eyes.
Sales was prettystraightforward.
Marketing was pretty.
Common and just there was ascript that everybody used and
just went in that direction.
When you think about a couple ofelements, number one, the
(22:14):
technology side is just going tocatch up to us so fast and we
will not be ready.
I guarantee you we never are forbig technology changes in our
industry because we are usuallyslow to react to technology.
I think this time is gonna catchup to us really quick, so we
have to be ready for.
For that it is gonna be here.
(22:34):
In that same vein, when youthink about the different
disciplines of the commercialumbrella.
Ensuring that there is a hundredpercent transparency across
those disciplines, and thateverybody has at least a minor
understanding of what the otherelements of the commercial
umbrella are, what's happeningthat communication is going to
(22:56):
have to be expounded by 10 forcompanies that are going to
succeed and be able to thencompliment their strategies with
these commercial technologychanges that are coming very
quickly.
The other area where I think weneed to really focus as an
industry is our agility.
We are not very agile as aindustry.
(23:19):
It takes us a while to move theneedle on many things.
The world is moving extremelyfast and these dynamics, these
market dynamics are moving evenfaster.
There's been a few, it's been acouple of turbulent months so
far this summer.
It hasn't been exactly thenumbers we'd like to see.
So how are we reacting?
What are those changes?
(23:40):
What are we seeing and are wemaking changes or are we just
saying, oh, this is what happensduring this time of year.
This is what happens with theindustry.
It's the ups and downs.
I don't think that's gonna makeit for much longer.
I think we're gonna have to havethe ability to pivot extremely
fast and make some quickdecisions.
And with that really comes thecuriosity.
(24:02):
I'm learning I make sure I tryto learn at least something
within the AI space every dayand whether it be for personal
or for professional andunderstanding that landscape and
what are the actions thathoteliers need to take, because
that's the biggest question.
What do I do?
What are the steps I can take?
So we need to stay on top ofthat.
I think it is very exciting.
(24:23):
I think those changes are gonnado a couple of things.
My biggest hope is that.
It takes away a lot of thatmundane work that was out there
for sales and revenue people andgive them that ability to spend
more time creative thinking andreally understanding what's
happening to help make betterdecisions.
I do think that is the endstate.
It's not gonna take over all ourjobs, but it is going to help us
(24:46):
do it a lot easier and take overa lot of those mundane tasks
that that just slow us down.
Dorothy Dowling (24:51):
I don't think I could have said it better,
Brian.
I love that concept of a lot ofthe, what I consider the grunt
work of, cutting, pasting,putting data together all of
that.
I hope we're gonna have a lotmore productivity and efficiency
and hopefully be able to reallyenhance a lot of what that
information will allow us to do.
(25:11):
But what I also loved what youhad said is really just that.
Understanding of all of theother disciplines, because I do
think we've been very siloed.
I think we talk about commercialleadership and I think there are
some green shoots where peopleare embracing that, but I do
think there's a long way to goand I just look at how
(25:32):
technology is also bridging someof those interdependencies
between B2B and B2C.
And if we don't truly bringmarketing, sales, distribution,
revenue management.
All of that understanding andbreadth to the way we do our
jobs, and we aren't going to beable to drive the kind of
performance that owners andinvestors expect.
So I think that's really wellsaid, and I do hope that those
(25:57):
that are listening are going toembrace some of those stretch
opportunities to explore some ofthe other disciplines in the
business.
Brian Hicks (26:04):
Spot on.
Yep.
Couldn't agree more.
Dorothy Dowling (26:06):
So I'm just wondering if we can talk a
little bit about talentdevelopment, because that is the
cruxes that many speak abouttoday as people and how they
power the business.
But I'm just wanting to ask you,if you were sitting on the
shoulder of a leader and.
Giving them some guidance interms of how do they evaluate
high potential talent?
(26:27):
How do they really build some ofthose direction growth
opportunities to power some ofthose individuals and, optimize
their career development
Brian Hicks (26:36):
talent has been a.
Another area within my careerthat has really propelled my
career forward.
And I take really great pride inseeing individuals that I've had
an opportunity to play some rolein their development, seeing
them move on to bigger andbetter positions.
(26:56):
There's nothing that gives memore pleasure and more
satisfaction in my job thanseeing others succeed.
It's always been a big focus ofmine.
I don't know where it came from.
But I think that's one of those,if I think back to another area
of success for me it'sunderstanding your purpose.
It's understanding, where.
Are you going to add value to ateam, to an organization, to a
(27:21):
new role that you're steppinginto?
So for me it has been talent.
So stepping into a new role, myfirst task is to really get to
know the team and assess theirskills, understand what really
drives them, what do they enjoydoing, because if they enjoy
doing it, they're gonna do itwell.
They're gonna be motivated to doit.
They're gonna want to do anamazing job.
(27:43):
So understanding what they dowell next, where do they want to
go, and then how can you helpthem get there?
Understanding and there's plentyof tools out there that,
strength finders is an easy oneto just understand where your
individual team strengths are.
Take that opportunity to maybemake some changes in terms of
individuals roles andresponsibilities.
Yes, we may have titles, but.
(28:04):
Going back to crossing throughsome of these silos, what better
way than giving somebody insales a quick data challenge?
Because that individual lovesdata and revenue management
might feel infringed upon, butyou know what?
If they're gonna do it and do itwell then give them that
opportunity.
So giving your team.
Those opportunities to not onlydo what they love, but then also
(28:25):
do some things that are gonnahelp them get to that next step
in their career.
So really focusing on talent,really focusing on where they
want to go, understanding whattype of other opportunities that
they might want to takeadvantage of.
And then lastly, what are theirdevelopment needs?
Is it leadership?
Is it data?
Is it sales?
Whatever it might be.
And then helping them to coveroff some of those areas as well,
(28:47):
I think is really critical.
It's been a real key driver tomy success over, over the years.
And I think if that's one ofyour passions and that as your
purpose.
Go for it.
I think it's a high need in ourindustry today.
I think fewer people are comingin with that mindset, and you
could probably reallydifferentiate yourself as a
leader if you're really focusedon talent.
Dorothy Dowling (29:08):
The thread that I'm hearing in this interview,
Brian, is just this focus onintentionality.
And so when you're thinkingabout teammates, identifying
strengths, but then actuallyputting a roadmap together and
collaborating with them in termsof what their journey, what they
want their future to look like,and really.
Building an intentional plan forthem to get there.
So I'm sure that you know thereason why you take so much
(29:32):
pride in the individuals thathave been so successful under
your leadership, it's becauseyou built some of those
intentional plans and haveactually seen them come to
fruition.
So congratulations and thank youfor sharing that.
Brian Hicks (29:43):
Absolutely.
Dorothy Dowling (29:45):
The one area that I'd like to get a little
more DA information or thoughtleadership from you is really,
the nature of our business andthe focus on short term versus
long term, and particularly withso many investment based leaders
that, have very important roles,but it does tend to drive a lot
of decision making, is focusingon short term.
And I just wonder how you workwith your teams to deliver on
(30:09):
all those quarterly kinds of,outcomes that we are asked to
do, but then also help themprepare for, those broader
deliverables that they have tofocus on simultaneously.
Brian Hicks (30:22):
In our industry we do focus a lot on the very short
term, and I think if you reallydig into what drove that short
term impact, whether it'spositive or negative, you'll
find that it wasn't somethingthat was done two weeks earlier.
It was something that was donemonths earlier.
And it was something that wasdone maybe even years earlier in
terms of an investment, maybe intechnology piece or whatever it
(30:45):
might be.
And so when you're in thatsituation where they're looking
at the short term results andlooking for a short term fix I
think highlighting that isreally important because, this
is not, this is the long game.
This is not a short game.
There might be a few smallinstances where it's a, quick,
short game and maybe there aresome quick short decisions that
need to be made.
(31:05):
But in general.
In our industry, that we're init for the long haul and we need
to make sure that our long-termstrategy is just as buttoned up.
And we spend as much time intothat as we have into the short
term.
So I think as we think aboutinvestments it is important to
understand investors' needs.
What are their goals At the endof the day, it may be short-term
(31:28):
cash, it may be long-term value,and that is a conversation that
I think we need to have a bitmore often so that commercial
teams specifically canunderstand what the goals of the
ownership interest are.
It can be tough to, it can betough to manage because if you
are told that, you know what myshort-term goal is to get as
much cash as possible, you mighthave to make some hard
(31:49):
decisions.
And that can end up reallyfrustrating teams at times.
But again, I think understandingthat coming up with a common
plan and a common approach totry to solve that I is really
the best way.
And I think, again, just havingopen and honest conversations as
to what are the end goals atleast, will help everybody
understand what the playgroundlooks like and why the decisions
(32:11):
that are being made.
Where it does get reallyfrustrating is if decisions are
being made without communicationand no, no understanding.
The view then is just we're justmaking poor decisions at the end
of the day.
And nobody wants to be a part ofthat.
So really having that opencommunication, I think is really
key to understanding investors'needs.
Dorothy Dowling (32:29):
There's two things that I really love to,
in, in that commentary, Brian.
One is really always buildingthe linkage on how some of the
results were.
Really founded in strategicthinking that had a longer term
view.
So I, and I think a lot ofpeople lose sight of that.
So I think that's really animportant message.
And I do think that overridingelement of being very purposeful
(32:49):
in communication, because I dothink when people understand
context, they can get on board.
It's when they are just leftwith get it done and not really
understand the why.
It's really hard for people to.
Invest in whatever the outcomethat they need to influence.
So thank you for being sohonest.
Brian, we're coming up at theend of our interview here and we
(33:10):
always like to close out theinterview in terms of the advice
that you'd like to offer someonein the hospitality industry
who's early in their careertrying to chart their career
just as you did with intentionand purpose.
So I'm wondering if you havesome final thoughts you'd like
to share with our audience.
Brian Hicks (33:26):
I think you touched on it a little bit.
You said, understand the why,right?
That is so important tounderstand your personal why.
I call it my personal purpose sowhat is my purpose?
And that has crafted my career.
It has shown me where I can bemost successful.
Where I will add the most valueto others and to the role.
(33:49):
Maybe I'm an individual that isjust absolutely data, just a
data person.
How can you take that, leverageit and ensure that kind of
becomes a pillar of yoursuccess?
I think the second piece ofadvice is.
Invest in relationships.
It's easy to have connectionsbut if you truly want to have a.
(34:13):
A, a network of individuals thatare truly gonna help guide your
career and move your careerforward.
You need to invest in thoserelationships.
And sometimes that can be tough.
Sometimes it can be, you'retrying to get somebody's
attention and it's just notworking.
Sometimes you need to make adecision, okay, I'm not gonna
invest in this relationship, butidentify the relationships that
you do want to.
(34:33):
Invest in and take the time andtake the energy it will pay off.
If we think about I think aboutmy role at H-S-M-A-I, a big part
of my role is establishing andmaking some of those
connections, whether they turninto, highly invested
relationships, it's up to thoseindividuals, but trying to make
those connections, I think is.
It is a big part of ourindustry.
It's what H-S-M-A-I is all aboutand I really enjoy it and
(34:56):
hopefully I'll make a fewconnections for people that turn
into some lifelongrelationships.
Dorothy Dowling (35:02):
Thank you for that, Brian.
I do think that focusing on yourstrengths at the beginning of
your career and reallyleveraging those in terms of how
they can amplify your careersuccess and you and I both share
that value of how we buildrelationships to foster.
Other success, but also there'salways that value proposition.
The investment in relationshipsalways pays dividends for
(35:23):
everyone.
So I just wanna express myappreciation for your very
engaging and thoughtfulleadership today.
You've shared insights that Iknow will no doubt, inspire and
guide many in our community andto our audience, I wanna thank
you also for joining us.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode with Brian, we invite
you to explore more stories atits.
(35:44):
Personal stories.com whereyou'll find interviews with
other leaders across theindustry who are charting Bull
Pass and building meaningfulcareers.
We hope to see you there.
Brian, thank you so much formaking the time for us today and
for sharing all your thoughtswith us.
Brian Hicks (35:59):
Absolutely.
Dorothy, it was my pleasure, andthank you for all that you do as
well.
You're really helping theindustry.
It's much appreciated.
Thank you, Brian.
Greetings.
I am Dorothy Dowling, andwelcome to its Personal Stories,
a hospitality podcast dedicatedto empowering professionals
Through the lived experiences ofinspire inspiring industry
leaders, this is a platform forlearning, leadership, and
personal transformation.
Today I am honored to be joinedby Brian Hicks, CEO of the
(00:31):
Hospitality Sales and MarketingAssociation International, an
organization dedicated togrowing business for hotels.
Their partners througheducation, insights, and
community.
Brian, welcome to the show.
It's delightful to have you.
Brian Hicks (00:45):
Thank you so much, Dorothy.
It's a pleasure to be here andthank you very much for inviting
me.
Dorothy Dowling (00:49):
Wonderful.
Brian, I hope we can just getstarted right at the beginning
of your career and have youshape or start with what
inspired your journey into thehospitality industry.
Brian Hicks (01:00):
Sure.
I I'm one of the few people inthe hotel industry that actually
knew I wanted to go into thehotel industry at a very early
age.
My, I was blessed growing up,being able to travel quite a bit
with my parents to local, localdestinations, but also a few
international destinations thatjust really sparked travel in
(01:22):
me.
And it was something that Ijust.
I got that bug very early on,and then I had the, was in a
couple of really just beautifulhotels and just when you walk in
the doors of, some amazingproperties, you just get this
sense of awe.
And I had that sense very earlyon.
And I just knew that this wasgonna be an industry that was
gonna welcome me because youlook across the industry, it's
(01:45):
such a diverse group of peoplethat really attracted me as
well.
And just the idea of travel andbeing able to go to new places,
experience new things, newfoods, new cultures, et cetera.
Even within the United States.
It didn't have to beinternational, but just new
destinations.
So I yeah, I got very lucky andthis is all I've ever done my
entire career, which I, there's,I think there's very few people
(02:08):
these days that can say that aswell.
But I when I had an opportunityto go to university my parents
said, we understand you want togo into hotels, but maybe you
should just get a generalbusiness degree first and then
go from there.
So I took their advice, whichyou normally do when you're 17
or 18 years old.
And I did that for a coupleyears and realized, no, I I want
(02:30):
to go into hotel schools.
So I transferred over after twoyears, completed my degree from
University of Wisconsin Stoutin, in hotel management and
never looked back.
It's it's just something that'sattracted me my entire career
and best decision I could haveever made.
Dorothy Dowling (02:46):
You know something, Brian, I think you're
one of the few people that wehave interviewed that you have
had an intentional path to thehospitality industry.
Most are accidental, exactlyright.
Yep.
I think that's incredible.
I'm just wondering if we can diga little deeper and have you
share some of the most definingmoments in your career that
really helped shape yourleadership journey and how you
(03:07):
approach problem solving.
Brian Hicks (03:09):
Absolutely there, there are quite a few defining
moments I've had in typicalhotel career where I've moved
around a lot and I've workedfor, a number of different
companies.
There were a few kind of keymoments though in my career.
One was my internship that waspart of my university degree
with Hyatt Hotels.
I went to Hilton Head Island.
(03:30):
There were probably 30 otherinterns there at the time.
A great group of people.
Some of them are still in theindustry, very few, but some,
but I took the opportunity thereto really focus on getting the
best out of that experience.
And one of the things that I didwas instead of rotating through
the typical housekeeping frontdesk restaurant, I actually
(03:52):
stayed in housekeeping my entirenine months that I had my
internship.
And what that allowed me was theopportunity to get.
Supervisory experience in thatrole since I was staying there
for almost nine months, and thenwhen I graduated.
I was looking for, looking for ajob like everybody is.
(04:12):
And the fact that I had thatsupervisory experience actually
was a big part of how I was ableto land a Junior Housekeeping
manager role.
With the Ritz-Carlton HotelCompany, and that was just an
ama.
I looked at what my otherfriends, the roles that they
were getting, many of them wereentry level, maybe management
training, and I had a solidsalaried position right outta
(04:37):
university.
But I took a chance and I reallydid take that chance to say, you
know what?
I'm gonna focus on where am Igonna get the most value in
terms of my career and my steps.
And the Ritz-Carlton HotelCompany was absolutely a
defining moment in my career.
I spent over six years there attheir flagship property at the
time, which is in Buckhead,Atlanta.
(04:58):
And the corporate office wasattached.
This was pre, I'm dating myself,but this was pre Marriott
involvement in any way, shape,or form.
And, it was an amazing learningexperience, such a great focus
on the guest service aspectgrowing your managerial skills,
leadership skills and that wasjust an incredible experience.
And definitely a defining momentin my career to be able to grow
(05:22):
and just really developed.
And then from there I joined IHGafter about six years with Ritz
Carlton, and I had over 26 yearswith IHG.
And one of my defining momentsthere was when I had the
opportunity to go overseas andwork out of the London office
and oversee revenue managementfor not only Europe, but also
(05:44):
for Asia and part of the MiddleEast.
I'd been in.
Commercial operations for manyyears.
Thought I knew it all feltreally confident going into, a
new territory, a new region.
But man, you get, you learn veryquickly how much you don't know
about.
Global other regions, some ofthe challenges there.
(06:06):
So it is, yeah, it's a big, it'sa big deal and was definitely a
defining moment.
And I spent close to seven yearsthroughout Europe, Asia, middle
East, and absolutely crafted mycareer and certainly gave me an
edge in terms of next stepsthroughout my career.
Dorothy Dowling (06:24):
I love both of those stories, Brian, because I,
it's, it sounds to me like evenas a student, you were very
intentional about shaping yourcareer and, really thinking
about how to enter the industrywith some substance behind you.
So I, I think that's a reallyimportant message for our
audience.
I also.
Really do love the way youdefine your international
(06:44):
journey.
'cause I too have had some ofthose experiences and I do think
we often find what we don't knowwhen we land into those places.
And it, it really is incrediblyimpactful to be immersed in
different cultures and learnfrom others and have them really
help shape your both, yourintellectual and your leadership
journey.
So thank you for sharing that.
(07:07):
Yeah.
I'm wondering if we can talk alittle bit about, because
obviously in the role thatyou're in now and certainly
roles you've had before, you'vehad a very demanding travel
schedule.
You've worked with globalpartners, of course, which all
have different stakeholders, allwith different needs and
expectations.
I'm just wondering if you cantalk a little bit about how you
maintain your personal energyand balance for yourself and for
(07:29):
the people that you're leading.
Brian Hicks (07:32):
Yeah, that's a great question and it is
something that I don't thinkenough executives focus on
specifically towards their team.
I have some great ways to,decompress myself personally.
I love the outdoors.
I love getting out on water.
I'm a huge music fan, so youknow, I look forward to the next
big concert or festival that'scoming up.
(07:54):
I think that personally for me,I always have to have a trip.
Or a festival or somethingplanned.
And as long as it's in thecalendar I know that time is
coming and you almost worktowards it, right?
You kind of work towards keepingyour energy levels at the right
pace and working towards it.
But one of the absolute keys tomy success has been my focus on
my team members and focus onpeople and understanding where
(08:16):
they are and really questioningthem.
When is your next vacation?
When is your next time torecharge?
And having that empathy to knowthat, sometimes if somebody's
having, a bad day, just givethem a break and let it go and
re you know, re restart thatconversation at a different
time.
(08:36):
And I think, post COD we've seenmore and more challenges in that
space and I think having a bitmore empathy, but.
Being very deliberate in askingthose questions.
Sometimes we just assumeeverybody's okay unless we hear
something right.
But if you can really keep apulse on your team to see where
their energies are leading them,I think that absolutely will
(08:58):
make somebody's career so mucheasier.
And it just gives you such abetter sense of what you could
push onto the team.
And when do you need to back offand when can you really start
to, to really drive the teamknowing that everybody's.
Energized and everybody's readyto go.
That has a big impact on theoverall organization's success.
Dorothy Dowling (09:17):
I do think that focus on your team's health and
really trying to have thatpersonalized approach to
leadership.
I, I just heard this brilliantspeaker at GBTA this week that
was talking about the CEOs oftoday and tomorrow.
That understanding of being anempathetic leader and being
highly tuned to their team'sneeds is really the ones that
are gonna power us into thefuture.
(09:38):
I appreciate you sharing that,Brian, and also the
understanding that you have tothink about each individual in
terms of what do they need,because everyone has different
things that energize them.
But that focus on teamwork Ithink is critical for all
leaders today.
So thank you for sharing that.
I agree.
I wonder if we can talk a littleabout networks now because
you've obviously been engagedthroughout your career, and I
(10:00):
would love for you to share howprofessional networks and your
industry relationships havereally.
Shaped your growth opened doors,and how do you advise others to
really cult, cultivate thosekinds of meaningful connections?
Brian Hicks (10:15):
The term networking, right?
It gets thrown around a lot.
And I think as an industry.
We're probably on the top end ofnetworking, right?
We're a hospitality org,industry, we like talk.
You don't get into this industryif you don't like talking to
people.
If you do, you're in the wrongindustry.
So I think, those connectionsare great.
(10:35):
I think taking it to the nextlevel with a very tight group of
individuals is what has beenvery effective for me in terms
of networking.
I have a very small group, aboutfive individuals that I connect
with on a regular basis, and youbuild that trust over time.
And while they may not beexperts in my industry, some of
(10:57):
them have just been longtimefriends they know me well enough
to be able to help guide someand give some good advice and
give some good direction as tohow to maybe tackle some of the
challenges that are ahead.
But in that same vein.
Networking within this industryis how people are getting ahead,
and that just seems to be acommon trend that has been
(11:18):
around forever, but I think it'sback these days as there's a
little bit of skepticism aroundsome of the technology that's
out there to drive, whether itbe driving to try to find a new
position, trying to findassistance, trying to find just,
colleagues to help out.
That networking side of thosepersonal relationships and those
personal interactions are somuch more important today.
(11:41):
And if you think about thefuture of AI and being able to
put out.
A personalized video directly tome from a hotel company, but I
know instantaneously that it, itwas completely AI generated.
I think that has a place, right?
But if it's going, if it needsto go to that next level.
(12:04):
That's not gonna cut it.
And I actually think that'sactually going to drive more
networking and more personalinteractions within our industry
because we do crave that andpeople want that face-to-face.
They want that engagement.
So staying engaged with.
The right people and is reallycritical I think, to this next
generation and even, people thathave been around for a while
(12:25):
wanting to grow their career.
And in that same vein, I thinkfor somebody who is just
starting out trying to buildtheir network.
You need to find places whereyou're comfortable and find
places where you feel that youare going to gain something,
that there's going to be peopleof similar interests that you
(12:46):
have.
And hopefully that would besomething that you would
definitely be attracted to.
You would start to see similarpeople have similar aspirations
and they would really start tothen grow their network and grow
their career in that sense.
Dorothy Dowling (13:00):
Yeah, no I think that's extremely well
articulated.
And I do think, HSM ai, theorganization that you lead,
really affords people thatability to build a lot of those
relationships and, find mentorsthat hopefully can power their
careers?
Brian Hicks (13:15):
A absolutely.
We were talking earlier aboutBob Gilbert, the former CEO of
H-S-M-A-I, and when I've knownBob for a number of years before
he passed, he was such anamazing individual.
And when I think about thenumber of careers that he has
touched and has driven and hasgrown in his role in H-S-M-A-I
it's astounding.
(13:37):
Even people that have been outof the industry for many years
comment on how much Bob really,changed their trajectory,
changed their career, and reallyinspired them.
And if I could bring just afraction of what Bob has brought
to the organization in terms ofthe networking opportunities and
building individual's careers, Iwill feel extremely grateful.
Dorothy Dowling (13:59):
Yeah, no I share that perspective on Bob,
Brian, and I appreciate yousaluting him the way you have,
because I do think he's beenvery special to many of us and
has had a profound impact onmany careers and just people's
understanding of, how toapproach some of their
challenges in their existingjobs.
So thank you for that attribute.
Absolutely.
(14:20):
I am wondering if we can talk alittle bit about problem solving
because I know that revenuemanagement is a science, and I'm
just wondering when you arecounseling others in terms of
complex challenges that theymight be facing how do you guide
them in terms of getting to rootcauses if they aren't
immediately clear?
(14:41):
Is there any advice you have forour audience?
Brian Hicks (14:44):
I spent most of my career in revenue management and
I am a absolute data junkie.
Data-driven approach to problemsolving is my first step.
It always has been.
And that comes with its ownchallenges because you can't
always trust the data.
You can't make decisions based ahundred percent on data.
Always like to use the exampleof you see some challenges in
(15:06):
the data, but what you don'tunderstand is that the hotel
down the street had a flood andjust took out a hundred rooms
out of their inventory.
There are other elements to justtaking a data-driven, a approach
to problem solving, but that,that needs to be the first step.
Absolutely needs to be the firststep in identifying how to
summarize the problem.
(15:26):
How to really see where the keyissues are, understand the
environment understand ifthere's any kind of economic,
political or anything elsethat's shaping some of those
challenges to really get to thebottom of it.
Next step for me is really, I ama collaborator.
And in this industry there areso many experts in different
(15:47):
areas.
If you're not listening to thoseother expertise areas you're
only gonna get a fraction of thepicture.
So really thinking about who doyou want to bring into that
conversation, bringing thoseindividuals in.
Listening, always being the lastto speak is my kind of motto,
especially if I'm bringing in myteam.
I'm not.
I don't wanna plant any biases.
(16:09):
I don't wanna plant any,conclusions.
I want them to really start tothink about what the issues are
and bring them up.
I really push people to speak upin those environments as well.
And then the last of it, whichis really just breaking down any
kind of silos or any kind oflack of collaboration between
team members.
Because there again, that canalso be something that'll hinder
(16:32):
the true picture.
If you have two individuals thatmight be coming at it and not
sharing a hundred percent ofwhat their knowledge base is and
almost keeping things to theirchest, and that seems to drive
drive people.
It drives me, Matt.
It is.
It's just something that I can'tdeal with.
That's really the threeapproaches that I take to really
trying to solve, complex issuesand get to a solution.
Dorothy Dowling (16:55):
I love that framing of starting with data
but not being exclusivelyfocused on the data.
Brian.
And I also love that aspect ofbringing others in because I do
think bringing diverse opinionsis always healthy for us to
hopefully see through some ofthose blind spots.
And then I do think that forcingof individuals to actually step
up and not just.
(17:15):
You shape that direction of thatdecision.
I think that's a really powerfulmessage to leaders because
that's a hard thing to dosometimes to sit back and let
others speak first.
So I appreciate you sharingthat.
I will tell you the speaker onMonday that spoke at you Pate,
spoke exactly about thatskillset.
Excellent.
So thank.
Thank you.
(17:35):
Good.
I'm wondering if we can talk alittle bit about communication,
because obviously that's areally important leadership
skill.
You have a awful lot ofopportunities or challenging
engagements that are put beforeyou.
I'm just wondering what you havelearned about connecting with an
audience whether it's a smallgroup of executives or getting
(17:56):
up on a big stage.
If there's anything that youwould like to share with our
listeners.
Brian Hicks (18:01):
I think preparation is the key.
It's been the key to my success.
I enjoy speaking in front ofpeople, but it's also something
that I know has to constantly becrafted and it's something that
I'm constantly working on.
I've seen people that havestarted off their careers where
they've been put into a positionwhere they have to do a lot of
(18:22):
speaking and maybe they'respeaking at a board meeting,
maybe they're speaking to alarge audience.
And they really struggledbecause it's a natural part of
your career progression, and ifyou're not prepared for it, it
can really step you back andreally, I, and I had an
opportunity, I think very earlyon in my career where I did step
into a boardroom and was put onthe spot.
(18:44):
And I did not do well.
I I started shaking.
It was I really knew at thatpoint that this is not gonna go
well.
So I I took that learning toreally ensure that I was
prepared and, we've talked aboutimposter syndrome and what have
you, but.
Instead of having that idea ofthat imposter syndrome, I would
(19:07):
take the approach of I know whatI know and I know it well, and I
may not have all the answers,and I'm not gonna go in there
and start to make things up ortry to answer questions that I'm
not prepared for.
But I am going to share all thatI know all that I'm prepared to
speak, and that builds a bit ofconfidence when you're talking
to a large audience or a smallaudience.
(19:28):
And I think, in the hospitalityindustry, you have a lot of mini
pro, mini issues that pop up ona regular basis, like these
really mini fires.
And you have to take the sameapproach, go in with what you
know assume, assume nothing andjust really start to find out
what the all the issues are.
Bring your knowledge, bringeverything, be prepared as
possible.
But you have to be open to, youhave to have an open mind going
(19:50):
into a lot of those things.
But in terms of public speaking,it's something that again, I
enjoy doing, but I know I havegot to prepare.
And I know I have a long way togo.
I.
Always trying to hone thatcraft.
Because it is important in thisindustry, it's important in my
role, it's important forcommunication and what I'm doing
today.
So if I can't relate toindividuals in the audience
(20:10):
they're just gonna shut down,right?
They're not gonna listen andyou're not gonna get your
message across, and that's thekey.
Dorothy Dowling (20:16):
I think that whole mindset of preparing and I
do appreciate you beingvulnerable and sharing, in an
early career moment where thingsdidn't go well, Brian, because I
do think that's important forleaders too.
Share some of their failurestoo, because I think a lot of
people feel like leaders justnever had any bad things happen
to them.
Yeah.
And they do afford us, prettypowerful learning opportunities.
(20:39):
But I also share yourperspective that preparation is
the only thing that we can do interms of.
Making sure that we do the bestto control the outcomes and
making everyone have a goodexperience.
And I do think manyunderestimate the time and
effort it takes to truly beprepared.
So I appreciate you.
Yeah.
Reinforcing that message, not towing it and to really be very
(21:03):
purposeful in, in, andintentional.
And when you're in front of anaudience,
Brian Hicks (21:07):
You're gonna be put on the spot.
And so many times withoutthroughout your career in
executive roles.
So make sure the ones where youhave an opportunity to prepare
for you do, because you're, youare gonna get caught off guard
at other times.
You don't want that to happenall the time.
Dorothy Dowling (21:22):
A hundred percent.
Brian, I think extraordinarilywell said.
I wonder if we can talk a littlebit about commercial leadership
and hospitality, because, Ithink you and I both would say
that the hospitality industryhas been.
Very often viewed as a verytraditional industry.
I do think it is on the edge ofvery significant transformation.
(21:42):
I think many are speaking tothat.
I'm just wondering what you seesome of the greatest
opportunities for innovation inour industry in the next three
to five years.
Brian Hicks (21:51):
I think it's.
An extremely exciting time to bewithin the commercial
discipline.
We, you're right, we've alwaysbeen viewed as a very
traditional kind of, revenueManagement was very simple in
most people's eyes.
Sales was prettystraightforward.
Marketing was pretty.
Common and just there was ascript that everybody used and
just went in that direction.
When you think about a couple ofelements, number one, the
(22:14):
technology side is just going tocatch up to us so fast and we
will not be ready.
I guarantee you we never are forbig technology changes in our
industry because we are usuallyslow to react to technology.
I think this time is gonna catchup to us really quick, so we
have to be ready for.
For that it is gonna be here.
(22:34):
In that same vein, when youthink about the different
disciplines of the commercialumbrella.
Ensuring that there is a hundredpercent transparency across
those disciplines, and thateverybody has at least a minor
understanding of what the otherelements of the commercial
umbrella are, what's happeningthat communication is going to
(22:56):
have to be expounded by 10 forcompanies that are going to
succeed and be able to thencompliment their strategies with
these commercial technologychanges that are coming very
quickly.
The other area where I think weneed to really focus as an
industry is our agility.
We are not very agile as aindustry.
(23:19):
It takes us a while to move theneedle on many things.
The world is moving extremelyfast and these dynamics, these
market dynamics are moving evenfaster.
There's been a few, it's been acouple of turbulent months so
far this summer.
It hasn't been exactly thenumbers we'd like to see.
So how are we reacting?
What are those changes?
(23:40):
What are we seeing and are wemaking changes or are we just
saying, oh, this is what happensduring this time of year.
This is what happens with theindustry.
It's the ups and downs.
I don't think that's gonna makeit for much longer.
I think we're gonna have to havethe ability to pivot extremely
fast and make some quickdecisions.
And with that really comes thecuriosity.
(24:02):
I'm learning I make sure I tryto learn at least something
within the AI space every dayand whether it be for personal
or for professional andunderstanding that landscape and
what are the actions thathoteliers need to take, because
that's the biggest question.
What do I do?
What are the steps I can take?
So we need to stay on top ofthat.
I think it is very exciting.
(24:23):
I think those changes are gonnado a couple of things.
My biggest hope is that.
It takes away a lot of thatmundane work that was out there
for sales and revenue people andgive them that ability to spend
more time creative thinking andreally understanding what's
happening to help make betterdecisions.
I do think that is the endstate.
It's not gonna take over all ourjobs, but it is going to help us
(24:46):
do it a lot easier and take overa lot of those mundane tasks
that that just slow us down.
Dorothy Dowling (24:51):
I don't think I could have said it better,
Brian.
I love that concept of a lot ofthe, what I consider the grunt
work of, cutting, pasting,putting data together all of
that.
I hope we're gonna have a lotmore productivity and efficiency
and hopefully be able to reallyenhance a lot of what that
information will allow us to do.
(25:11):
But what I also loved what youhad said is really just that.
Understanding of all of theother disciplines, because I do
think we've been very siloed.
I think we talk about commercialleadership and I think there are
some green shoots where peopleare embracing that, but I do
think there's a long way to goand I just look at how
(25:32):
technology is also bridging someof those interdependencies
between B2B and B2C.
And if we don't truly bringmarketing, sales, distribution,
revenue management.
All of that understanding andbreadth to the way we do our
jobs, and we aren't going to beable to drive the kind of
performance that owners andinvestors expect.
So I think that's really wellsaid, and I do hope that those
(25:57):
that are listening are going toembrace some of those stretch
opportunities to explore some ofthe other disciplines in the
business.
Brian Hicks (26:04):
Spot on.
Yep.
Couldn't agree more.
Dorothy Dowling (26:06):
So I'm just wondering if we can talk a
little bit about talentdevelopment, because that is the
cruxes that many speak abouttoday as people and how they
power the business.
But I'm just wanting to ask you,if you were sitting on the
shoulder of a leader and.
Giving them some guidance interms of how do they evaluate
high potential talent?
(26:27):
How do they really build some ofthose direction growth
opportunities to power some ofthose individuals and, optimize
their career development
Brian Hicks (26:36):
talent has been a.
Another area within my careerthat has really propelled my
career forward.
And I take really great pride inseeing individuals that I've had
an opportunity to play some rolein their development, seeing
them move on to bigger andbetter positions.
(26:56):
There's nothing that gives memore pleasure and more
satisfaction in my job thanseeing others succeed.
It's always been a big focus ofmine.
I don't know where it came from.
But I think that's one of those,if I think back to another area
of success for me it'sunderstanding your purpose.
It's understanding, where.
Are you going to add value to ateam, to an organization, to a
(27:21):
new role that you're steppinginto?
So for me it has been talent.
So stepping into a new role, myfirst task is to really get to
know the team and assess theirskills, understand what really
drives them, what do they enjoydoing, because if they enjoy
doing it, they're gonna do itwell.
They're gonna be motivated to doit.
They're gonna want to do anamazing job.
(27:43):
So understanding what they dowell next, where do they want to
go, and then how can you helpthem get there?
Understanding and there's plentyof tools out there that,
strength finders is an easy oneto just understand where your
individual team strengths are.
Take that opportunity to maybemake some changes in terms of
individuals roles andresponsibilities.
Yes, we may have titles, but.
(28:04):
Going back to crossing throughsome of these silos, what better
way than giving somebody insales a quick data challenge?
Because that individual lovesdata and revenue management
might feel infringed upon, butyou know what?
If they're gonna do it and do itwell then give them that
opportunity.
So giving your team.
Those opportunities to not onlydo what they love, but then also
(28:25):
do some things that are gonnahelp them get to that next step
in their career.
So really focusing on talent,really focusing on where they
want to go, understanding whattype of other opportunities that
they might want to takeadvantage of.
And then lastly, what are theirdevelopment needs?
Is it leadership?
Is it data?
Is it sales?
Whatever it might be.
And then helping them to coveroff some of those areas as well,
(28:47):
I think is really critical.
It's been a real key driver tomy success over, over the years.
And I think if that's one ofyour passions and that as your
purpose.
Go for it.
I think it's a high need in ourindustry today.
I think fewer people are comingin with that mindset, and you
could probably reallydifferentiate yourself as a
leader if you're really focusedon talent.
Dorothy Dowling (29:08):
The thread that I'm hearing in this interview,
Brian, is just this focus onintentionality.
And so when you're thinkingabout teammates, identifying
strengths, but then actuallyputting a roadmap together and
collaborating with them in termsof what their journey, what they
want their future to look like,and really.
Building an intentional plan forthem to get there.
So I'm sure that you know thereason why you take so much
(29:32):
pride in the individuals thathave been so successful under
your leadership, it's becauseyou built some of those
intentional plans and haveactually seen them come to
fruition.
So congratulations and thank youfor sharing that.
Brian Hicks (29:43):
Absolutely.
Dorothy Dowling (29:45):
The one area that I'd like to get a little
more DA information or thoughtleadership from you is really,
the nature of our business andthe focus on short term versus
long term, and particularly withso many investment based leaders
that, have very important roles,but it does tend to drive a lot
of decision making, is focusingon short term.
And I just wonder how you workwith your teams to deliver on
(30:09):
all those quarterly kinds of,outcomes that we are asked to
do, but then also help themprepare for, those broader
deliverables that they have tofocus on simultaneously.
Brian Hicks (30:22):
In our industry we do focus a lot on the very short
term, and I think if you reallydig into what drove that short
term impact, whether it'spositive or negative, you'll
find that it wasn't somethingthat was done two weeks earlier.
It was something that was donemonths earlier.
And it was something that wasdone maybe even years earlier in
terms of an investment, maybe intechnology piece or whatever it
(30:45):
might be.
And so when you're in thatsituation where they're looking
at the short term results andlooking for a short term fix I
think highlighting that isreally important because, this
is not, this is the long game.
This is not a short game.
There might be a few smallinstances where it's a, quick,
short game and maybe there aresome quick short decisions that
need to be made.
(31:05):
But in general.
In our industry, that we're init for the long haul and we need
to make sure that our long-termstrategy is just as buttoned up.
And we spend as much time intothat as we have into the short
term.
So I think as we think aboutinvestments it is important to
understand investors' needs.
What are their goals At the endof the day, it may be short-term
(31:28):
cash, it may be long-term value,and that is a conversation that
I think we need to have a bitmore often so that commercial
teams specifically canunderstand what the goals of the
ownership interest are.
It can be tough to, it can betough to manage because if you
are told that, you know what myshort-term goal is to get as
much cash as possible, you mighthave to make some hard
(31:49):
decisions.
And that can end up reallyfrustrating teams at times.
But again, I think understandingthat coming up with a common
plan and a common approach totry to solve that I is really
the best way.
And I think, again, just havingopen and honest conversations as
to what are the end goals atleast, will help everybody
understand what the playgroundlooks like and why the decisions
(32:11):
that are being made.
Where it does get reallyfrustrating is if decisions are
being made without communicationand no, no understanding.
The view then is just we're justmaking poor decisions at the end
of the day.
And nobody wants to be a part ofthat.
So really having that opencommunication, I think is really
key to understanding investors'needs.
Dorothy Dowling (32:29):
There's two things that I really love to,
in, in that commentary, Brian.
One is really always buildingthe linkage on how some of the
results were.
Really founded in strategicthinking that had a longer term
view.
So I, and I think a lot ofpeople lose sight of that.
So I think that's really animportant message.
And I do think that overridingelement of being very purposeful
(32:49):
in communication, because I dothink when people understand
context, they can get on board.
It's when they are just leftwith get it done and not really
understand the why.
It's really hard for people to.
Invest in whatever the outcomethat they need to influence.
So thank you for being sohonest.
Brian, we're coming up at theend of our interview here and we
(33:10):
always like to close out theinterview in terms of the advice
that you'd like to offer someonein the hospitality industry
who's early in their careertrying to chart their career
just as you did with intentionand purpose.
So I'm wondering if you havesome final thoughts you'd like
to share with our audience.
Brian Hicks (33:26):
I think you touched on it a little bit.
You said, understand the why,right?
That is so important tounderstand your personal why.
I call it my personal purpose sowhat is my purpose?
And that has crafted my career.
It has shown me where I can bemost successful.
Where I will add the most valueto others and to the role.
(33:49):
Maybe I'm an individual that isjust absolutely data, just a
data person.
How can you take that, leverageit and ensure that kind of
becomes a pillar of yoursuccess?
I think the second piece ofadvice is.
Invest in relationships.
It's easy to have connectionsbut if you truly want to have a.
(34:13):
A, a network of individuals thatare truly gonna help guide your
career and move your careerforward.
You need to invest in thoserelationships.
And sometimes that can be tough.
Sometimes it can be, you'retrying to get somebody's
attention and it's just notworking.
Sometimes you need to make adecision, okay, I'm not gonna
invest in this relationship, butidentify the relationships that
you do want to.
(34:33):
Invest in and take the time andtake the energy it will pay off.
If we think about I think aboutmy role at H-S-M-A-I, a big part
of my role is establishing andmaking some of those
connections, whether they turninto, highly invested
relationships, it's up to thoseindividuals, but trying to make
those connections, I think is.
It is a big part of ourindustry.
It's what H-S-M-A-I is all aboutand I really enjoy it and
(34:56):
hopefully I'll make a fewconnections for people that turn
into some lifelongrelationships.
Dorothy Dowling (35:02):
Thank you for that, Brian.
I do think that focusing on yourstrengths at the beginning of
your career and reallyleveraging those in terms of how
they can amplify your careersuccess and you and I both share
that value of how we buildrelationships to foster.
Other success, but also there'salways that value proposition.
The investment in relationshipsalways pays dividends for
(35:23):
everyone.
So I just wanna express myappreciation for your very
engaging and thoughtfulleadership today.
You've shared insights that Iknow will no doubt, inspire and
guide many in our community andto our audience, I wanna thank
you also for joining us.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode with Brian, we invite
you to explore more stories atits.
(35:44):
Personal stories.com whereyou'll find interviews with
other leaders across theindustry who are charting Bull
Pass and building meaningfulcareers.
We hope to see you there.
Brian, thank you so much formaking the time for us today and
for sharing all your thoughtswith us.
Brian Hicks (35:59):
Absolutely.
Dorothy, it was my pleasure, andthank you for all that you do as
well.
You're really helping theindustry.
It's much appreciated.
Thank you, Brian.
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