August 20, 2025 • 27 mins
From proving doubters wrong early on to leading with determination and kindness, Carolyne reminds us that “success doesn’t come easy, but small wins build confidence and influence.” She also shared candidly about overcoming imposter syndrome, the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people, and why sometimes the best advice is simple: “You’ve got this.” Her story is a powerful example of resilience, authenticity, and leadership with heart.
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David Kong (00:01):
Greetings.
I'm David Kong.
I'm the founder and principal ofIts Personal Stories.
Today I'm delighted to welcomeCaroline Doyen.
She's the president and CEO ofClub Net.
North America and the Caribbean.
Carolyn is well recognized inthe industry.
She recently won one of the topwomen in Travel and Hospitality
(00:22):
Award, and she's been well knownfor her leadership as well as a
commitment to empowering othersto succeed.
I'm honored to have you on ashow, Carolyn Kel.
Carolyne Doyon (00:34):
It's an honor to be here, David, and thank you
for having me.
David Kong (00:37):
Thank you.
You have a very interestingcareer journey.
I know you're from Canada.
You studied social science andalso tourism, and you've played
many different roles in thetravel industry, including
airlines.
Before you joined Club Med,would you mind to comment on the
key factors of your careerjourney that contributed to your
(00:58):
success?
Carolyne Doyon (01:01):
I would say it was.
Determination, if I mightpresume it in one word.
I was driven from a very youngage into working hard, having
good grades.
I grew up in Montreal in amulticultural neighborhood, and
I was always curious.
But I was also very determined,and when I went from social
(01:23):
science and so on and totourism, my deter determination
took another toll because Iwanted to prove my mother wrong
because she told me that if Iwas going into tourism, I will
not be successful because it wasvery hard and there was a lot of
people.
And you were not making a lot ofmoney.
(01:45):
From that moment on, I decidednot only I was going to follow
my passion, but I was alsodetermined to prove her wrong,
which I can share with you now,David, that she has told me
several times that she was wrongand that I did the good thing by
following my passion and so on.
(02:05):
All that to say that, yes, Ithink that the tipping point in
where I am today was to be.
To have a goal and to bedetermined to achieve it.
David Kong (02:16):
That's great.
That speaks a lot to yourdetermination and being driven.
You overcome some resistance.
Let's also talk about the bothsteps that you've taken in your
career.
You've taken a number of them.
How did you find the courage totake those both steps and what
can you share in terms oflearnings?
Carolyne Doyon (02:37):
Yeah, so I think the first thing for me was
always not to take anything forgranted.
Your success takes a long timeto to reach, and it can go very
quickly also, so you cannot takeyour success for granted.
Another learning for me was donot forget where you're coming
from.
(02:58):
Very important.
So it helps a lot in leadershipstyle and so on.
So always remember where youhave started, where you're
coming from, and always rememberwho you're speaking to.
And of course you can morerelate.
I find that it helps also do notever take kindness for weakness.
(03:18):
Because through my differentmoves and career, I was
fortunate to have very caringleaders and with different
style, but very caring.
And I find that it brings thebest out of you when you have a
caring leader that is there tosupport you, to let you grow, of
course, and make mistake.
(03:38):
But if it's done with kindnessand looking out for you, I think
that you can get even more sofrom yourself and also from your
team.
So it's not because you arekind, that you are weak.
And this is a mindset that Ithink that a lot of leader today
looking up to because it's veryimportant and after it's don't
(04:02):
be afraid to make mistake.
You take full move and mistakehappen when it does happen.
Recognize it.
Try to fail fast and learn fromit and get back on track and go
for your objectives.
So I would say that these arethe one that really, in terms of
every obstacle and every stepsthat I did, that I always kept
(04:23):
in mind and kept me focused.
David Kong (04:26):
Such great advice, and especially like a comment
about being caring and kind topeople.
It's a hallmark of a successfulleader in the early seventies or
eighties when I was coming up aletter.
The successful leaders are theones who are really intense and
tough, but how the world haschanged, we all appreciate other
(04:47):
people being kind and caringtowards us and helping us with
our career.
Yeah, so thanks for sharingthat.
Yeah.
Now, you went one day from beingin charge of sales to being in
charge of the whole company inNorth America and the Caribbean.
That's not an easy shift fromone day to the next.
Can you comment on the mindshift that are necessary in
(05:08):
order to advance your career?
Carolyne Doyon (05:10):
The mindset I started by telling you about
determination.
I think that.
Follows in that same, in thatsame line and the mindset that
you need to have that I believein.
So is that always be curious,ask a lot of question.
And again, don't take anythingfor granted because if you do,
then you are, you might miss outon some details or an
(05:33):
opportunity and so on.
So ask question for me is beingcurious.
I have a lot of determination.
You go for it.
Also, don't settle.
Because when you're a leader,sometimes you say, oh, if I go
this way, it could be theeasiest way.
But I always ask myself, is itthe best way?
And often it's not the easiestway, that it's the best way, and
(05:57):
sometimes it's the mostcomplicated one, but you know
that it might hurt at thebeginning, but in the midterm,
long term, it's gonna be better.
So always have a mindset ofasking yourself, am I doing this
because.
It's what should be done, or amI doing this for the right
purpose and this is the rightstep that I have to do.
(06:19):
After that, you need to trustyourself.
At some point, you have to say,okay, this is the objective.
I have a great, amazing teamnext to me.
Let's do it.
And maybe we don't have all thefacts and data, but let's do it.
And trust yourself, and youlearn to trust yourself a little
bit more with experience whenyou have realization and so on.
When you have failed a couple oftimes you know that you won't do
(06:41):
this again.
But once you have this as you goand the years pass by, you gain
a little bit more confidence.
And then even though you don'thave all the datas or all
everything that you would liketo take your decision, but you
just go and you trust yourself.
Yeah.
So I do believe that this is.
What shaped me and the mindsetthat I have today, and that I
(07:03):
think I trust to other leaders.
David Kong (07:06):
Yeah, I love this and I particularly like the
comment about trusting yourself.
There are many roles that leadto Rome and there are many
different ways to achieve whatyou wanna achieve, but trusting
yourself is the best way toaccomplish what you set out to
do.
Carolyne Doyon (07:22):
But again, you cannot do it alone.
You have to trust yourself.
In terms of leading.
But you need to be surrounded byan A team of incredible people
in order to do.
But of course there's someonethat usually leads to lead the
way, and you need to haveconfidence in yourself that you
can do it, so they can followyou and be with you, but
(07:43):
obviously alone or not gogetting anywhere.
David Kong (07:47):
I absolutely agree.
You need to surround yourselfwith the best people.
You can find people that aresmarter than you.
Yes.
And so you can trust them aswell.
Now advocating for ourselves isreally important for our own
success, and it's somethingthat's really difficult to do
because you don't wanna appearlike you are conceited.
You advocate for yourself.
Carolyne Doyon (08:09):
Uh, you are right David.
It's not an easy thing to do,and I'm much more easy to give
feedback to my team than for meto advocate for myself, but as
again, as you have moreexperience and so on, I do
believe the best way to advocatefor yourself, it's first to
remain true to who you are.
Always lead by example and befactual.
(08:35):
And that I, and again, I wastelling you earlier, but don't
take anything for granted.
When I advocate for myself, I'mnever in a position of this is
my natural next step, or this iswhat should come next.
No.
It's something that I aspire todo and I will come to the table
with the realizations, what Ican bring of course to the
(08:57):
business, and a vision and astrategy, and everything is
tangible and I know that when Isit down like any other
candidate.
So you have to come with yourbest self, obviously.
While remaining true to who youare, and of course bringing
tangible example and tangibleexperience that is important to
(09:22):
your next step where you wouldlike to go.
David Kong (09:25):
Sounds like you are saying that your actions and
results speak for themselves,but I'm also curious sometimes,
especially for those of us inthe minority group, women or
people of color.
It's hard to be noticed in acompany and how do you have
(09:46):
conversations with yoursupervisors or your superiors so
they know your career ambitionand that you have good results
to show?
Carolyne Doyon (09:57):
So I had the, the good fortune, if I may, to,
I've been working for Clementfor over 15 years now.
So I've grown within thecompany.
Come is a very human company andthey give us always ongoing
training and they trust you ifyou show, of course, talent, but
(10:19):
also determination and you wannagrow within so they invest in
you.
So I was telling you earlierthat caring leaders were along
my path.
So I got caring leaders thatwere able to push me.
And outside of my comfort zone.
And to show, to prove to myselfthat I was capable of doing
things that I didn't think itwas possible or achievable.
(10:43):
So by doing this step by step,you get results by having
results.
Of course, you've noticed whileyou notice what they say and you
raise your hand because you haveto raise your hand and to say, I
wanna sit at the table.
I've done this with the team sofar.
I think we can go further.
These are what we need and thisis where we wanna go.
(11:04):
And as you go, people start totrust you and trust you even
more.
See potential and after it's awheel.
And the importance is to reallyraise your hand to do it the
right way, but to say, you knowwhat?
I think I can do this.
No, I can do this.
That I think I can do this if Ihave the following means or if I
have the following opportunity.
(11:25):
And I was again, fortunateenough to have a company that
really believe in when it'speople and allow me to grow
within.
David Kong (11:34):
That's number one, right?
You have to work for the rightcompany with value, expertise,
and your experience and who youare.
Exactly.
That's great advice.
Now, next topic is aboutchallenges and disappointments.
We all encounter them, it'sinevitable, and I was wondering
if you could share some of thelessons that you've learned from
(11:54):
the challenges that you'veencountered.
Carolyne Doyon (11:58):
Yes, I had several challenges over my
professional life, but there'sone I would say that, and we can
talk about COVID and so on, butthere's one very unique, I think
about myself, is that again,when I decided to switch from
social science, to finish socialscience and to go into tourism,
(12:20):
and my mom was.
Saying you can't do that.
One of the other thing that Ididn't tell you is that I was
not speaking a word of English.
So I'm born in, raised inMontreal, French Canadian.
My first language is French andshe says, what are you gonna do
in tourism?
The language is, is English tous.
I, I'll learn it.
But back then I met earlytwenties and she goes, okay,
(12:42):
finally I did my studies.
I was.
Okay.
Still not speaking English, butI manage, and my first position
was at Delta Airlines.
So Delta Airlines, Americanbased company out of Atlanta.
And I wanted to work at theairport and I did the interview
and it's in Montreal.
So they asked me in French, doyou speak English?
(13:05):
And I said, yes, but in French,I did not really speak English.
And I said to myself, I reallywanna have.
The position.
So I committed to myself that Ineed to speak English for
obvious reason, and I learnedEnglish in four months.
Wow.
And on my own reading withdictionary, translating, full
(13:27):
immersion, watching movie and soon.
I learned it four months, noneed to tell you that.
Delta realized quite quicklythat I did not really, it was
fully bilingual.
Like I said, I was in French andthey saw that I was.
Going quite quickly intolearning and they kept me and I
keep going up and up within thatorganization at that time.
(13:50):
But that moment, which was a bigchallenge for me, I turned it
around and it create tremendousopportunity.
And one of them is being,talking here with you in English
and living now in Miami,Florida.
So.
David Kong (14:06):
That's what they say.
Challenges, uh, opportunities.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Exactly, exactly.
You turn that
David Kong (14:11):
challenge into a huge opportunity for yourself.
Kudos to you.
That's a delightful story.
Love that.
Now many of us struggle with theimposter syndrome, and could you
share some advice on how youshift that negative thinking
into something that's positiveand constructive?
Carolyne Doyon (14:31):
Yeah, impostor syndrome really do exist, and
for me, it's very much presentin my life and even after all
these years.
And one of the exam, I haveseveral of them, but one of them
that I can share with you isthat I've been asked to do a
keynote for Women's Forum in2024.
(14:55):
And when the PR agency broughtme the opportunity, my first
reaction was, I can't do that.
Why would I do that?
What would I say that wouldinterest all these professional
leaders and so on that I havenothing to say?
And they said, no, we believe.
And it was my first keynote.
I did a lot of interview.
(15:16):
I did a lot of round tables andpanels, but never a keynote.
And David, it was.
Very scary for me because,again, imposter syndrome.
I didn't think I had anythinginteresting to share apart from
my little story that I'm justresuming for you.
So what I learned is that Ineeded to prepare and I did
(15:40):
prepare, and I was coached and Iwas helped.
And again, you need to surroundyourself by the best team.
And I'm doing a shutout to Adam.
He will recognize himself, whichwas my coach, and we work on it.
Several hours and when Iarrived, it was in Toronto.
When I arrived on that stage,that very morning, I knew I was
(16:03):
ready and while I was doing thespeech, I was talking about
imposter syndrome and I wastelling them that I was having
it here on stage at that verymoment because it was my first
keynote and that I was stillasking myself, why am I doing
this again?
Because I am I reallyinteresting.
All that to say that it was awonderful experience.
(16:25):
I got a standing ovation and forme, that moment I said, okay, I
had the um, imposter syndromeand I still have it.
But when you prepare and whenyou get out of your comfort
zone, then anything can happen.
And that was a huge learner forme after did I enjoy it?
It's another story.
(16:46):
But no, it was a greatexperience.
But all that to say that, yes,it's, it's the imposter
syndrome.
Like you cannot have a betterstudy case than this.
David Kong (16:57):
Yeah.
I'm so glad you shared thatstory and your advice on being
prepared.
I is such a wonderful.
Thing for us all to remember.
When you're prepared, you'remuch more ready to take on that
imposter syndrome.
Now, I was wondering if youcould share the best advice
(17:17):
you've ever received.
Carolyne Doyon (17:20):
The best advice I receive in doubt.
There's no doubt that is reallythe best advice I've received.
I receive a lot, but it tags toevery, sorry.
IT tags to everything.
It can tags to hr, it can tagsto business.
(17:42):
It can tags for everything.
So when you doubt aboutsomething.
There's no doubt, stop.
Because often we would say, oh,I'm not sure I'm, if something
doesn't feel right, it's becauseit's not right.
And this is something that Ichallenge my team every day
with.
Sometimes they come to me withsomething and I said, what do
you think this, this person orthis project or this?
(18:04):
I said, what do you think?
I'm not sure.
I I do you doubt?
Yes.
But I said, there's no doubt.
Then.
And now they're starting to see.
And for me, it was really one ofthe best advice I've received
amongst surround yourself withthe best people you know.
Don't ever be afraid to have allthe best of any field around
(18:24):
you.
They will be better than you.
They will know better than youin terms of their own feel.
And you know what?
It's okay.
And you can always learn fromthem and you bring them
something else.
So that's the beauty of a team,of course.
But these are the two advicethat I would say really guide me
still today, every day.
David Kong (18:45):
Good advice.
I love that.
I think a little doubt issometimes our mechanism of
making sure that we've thoughtthrough everything.
So it's probably okay, but onceyou decide to pursue something,
you have to go at it with fullgusto, with full conviction.
So I totally agree with you onthat.
(19:09):
I am curious as,'cause I havecertainly evolved how I define
success as I progressed.
Through my career.
And what about you?
Do you think about successdifferently than you did five
years ago?
Carolyne Doyon (19:24):
Yes, I do, and I have COVID to thanks for that,
if I may.
And all that craziness, it allowme to take a step back and to
really be able to see thegreater picture.
Then just let's say a salesresort, the results on the spot
(19:45):
and say, oh, we have the, Irealize in time that often you
do everything you can to haveeverything in place and you can
have the best plan, butunfortunately things happen and
the outcome is not what youexpected.
(20:06):
Do we have a.
Commercial or a budget success,the answer might not, will not
be no because for some reasonthat it's out of your control.
But once you're able to take astep back and to say, we've done
everything we could and we'vedone it really well, did the
outcome worked?
No, unfortunately, but we knowwhy.
(20:28):
If we could control, then we'renot successful.
If we can control and it's outof our hands, but we did
everything.
Then we are successful and wewill learn from that.
Five or 10 years ago, weprobably would've this
conversation.
I would tell you if the budgetis not achieved, if my costs are
not under control, if this isthis, it would've been a
(20:49):
completely different definitionof success.
So yes, I see success with muchmore now.
Again, a greater vision and muchmore.
That was what was put into itthan the end results, which
still have to be.
Positive.
How did we get there?
I see this more than just,
David Kong (21:12):
I'm so glad you said that.
'cause a lot of people struggleto define success, and I'm so
glad that you added clarity tothis.
Let's talk about how we canbuild confidence and influence
because that is so important inour success.
I have people come up to me andsay, I don't know what it is
about.
(21:33):
Me being in a meeting and Ilisten to conversation, I
volunteer my thought and nobodypays any attention to me.
And then afterwards, somebodyrestates the same idea as mine
and all of a sudden that's likethe best thing since sliced
bread.
Why is that?
And I often try to suggest thatmaybe it's a lack of influence
(21:55):
and maybe it's a lack ofconfidence in how the idea was
stated.
And maybe there are otherreasons.
So.
Building confidence andinfluence is crucial to our
success.
What advice can you provide uson this?
Carolyne Doyon (22:11):
I think that there's nothing that build
confidence more than havingsmall wins.
You don't need to havetremendous three year plan and
so on because it might take awhile.
I always say start with babysteps.
Get out of your comfort zone,try learn, and it probably will
(22:36):
work.
And if it does work, you say,oh, I was able to do this much,
then I can do this much.
And I think that confidence,it's not built overnight, it
builds with, I was telling youearlier, but the realization,
the small win to see someonegrow.
So give yourself some target.
Which are your own target, notnecessarily the company you work
(22:59):
for, but you know that for youto reach these target, it's
asking you quite a bit becauseyou know it's not something
maybe you're used to or you'regetting completely out of your
comfort zone, but once you do itand you say, okay, I was able to
do this, do it again.
So don't be afraid to challengeyourself and to set goals for
(23:19):
yourself.
You will build your confidenceafter.
I was telling you about beingcaring leadership.
If you are true to yourself, ifyou are loyal, honest to the
people that you're around, thenthe influence come naturally.
This is what we call leadership,right?
(23:40):
I am not a manager.
I wanna be a leader, and I'mtrying to give this to my team
because in order to influence,for me, it's more lead.
Is that you have to have thepeople that believe in you and
that wants to follow you.
And how do you do this?
This by staying true toyourself.
(24:01):
Of course, lead by example.
Raise your hand if you made amistake and make it better and
give success to your team whenit's due and things like that.
But everything, the confidenceand the influence, they go hand
in hand and they go step bystep.
Because the more you are gonnahave confidence in yourself, the
(24:21):
more you're going inspire theteam and your clients, and the
more you inspire them, yourinfluence always coming
naturally.
But it takes some times, it doestake some times.
David Kong (24:33):
Yes, I totally agree with you.
It's a lot of small wins thatbegin to build your confidence
and influence.
Wonderful.
Sharing that with us, I see thatwe are coming almost to the end
of our show.
So I have two other questionsfor you.
One is you've had a spectacularcareer journey and you have a
(24:55):
young son that's with youthrough this journey.
What.
Lesson do you want your son topick up through this journey?
Carolyne Doyon (25:05):
My son, Sam, is 14-year-old, 13 years old.
I want him to know that nothinggood come easily.
You know it when we say it's toogood to be true.
It is too good to be true.
So I want for him to know earlyon that.
If he sets himself a goal or asmall win or something that he
(25:28):
has to himself put the effortbecause success doesn't come on
its own.
So for him, if he just onething, of course, good values
and so on, but for him, in termsprofessionally, nothing.
Good comes easy and we knowthis, but often sometimes we're
sidetracked.
So if you can just keep this inmind, I think you will have a
(25:50):
good roadmap.
David Kong (25:55):
I totally agree with you.
That's great advice for son.
Now I'll show Isabelself-empowerment, and if you can
provide one final piece ofadvice that would be on every
billboard in North America, whatwould that be?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
You've got this.
David Kong (26:15):
You got this,
Speaker 3 (26:17):
you've got this.
Yes.
David Kong (26:19):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yeah.
David Kong (26:20):
I love that.
A lot of times it's the mindset,right?
You've got this.
You gotta believe in yourself
Carolyne Doyon (26:27):
because sometimes you're in doubt and
you have to tell you some.
You've got this.
Again, it's all tied up to theimpost.
I love that.
David Kong (26:33):
I love that.
Because if you don't believe inyourself, why should anyone
believe in you?
You've got this.
What a great model.
Thank you.
Carolyne Doyon (26:42):
Are we gonna make some billboard of it so I
can give it to my team and toeverybody?
I think
David Kong (26:48):
you got this.
Let's soon take over the NikeSweep.
If you enjoy the show withCarolyn, I hope you join us on
our website.
It's personal stories.com.
Carolyn, it's such a pleasure tohave you.
Your comments have been mostinsightful and beneficial.
(27:09):
Thank you very much for takingthe time to be on the show.
Carolyne Doyon (27:13):
Again, thank you so much for having me, David,
and let's speak soon.
Thank you.
David Kong (27:17):
Yeah, let's speak soon.
Thank you.
Greetings.
I'm David Kong.
I'm the founder and principal ofIts Personal Stories.
Today I'm delighted to welcomeCaroline Doyen.
She's the president and CEO ofClub Net.
North America and the Caribbean.
Carolyn is well recognized inthe industry.
She recently won one of the topwomen in Travel and Hospitality
(00:22):
Award, and she's been well knownfor her leadership as well as a
commitment to empowering othersto succeed.
I'm honored to have you on ashow, Carolyn Kel.
Carolyne Doyon (00:34):
It's an honor to be here, David, and thank you
for having me.
David Kong (00:37):
Thank you.
You have a very interestingcareer journey.
I know you're from Canada.
You studied social science andalso tourism, and you've played
many different roles in thetravel industry, including
airlines.
Before you joined Club Med,would you mind to comment on the
key factors of your careerjourney that contributed to your
(00:58):
success?
Carolyne Doyon (01:01):
I would say it was.
Determination, if I mightpresume it in one word.
I was driven from a very youngage into working hard, having
good grades.
I grew up in Montreal in amulticultural neighborhood, and
I was always curious.
But I was also very determined,and when I went from social
(01:23):
science and so on and totourism, my deter determination
took another toll because Iwanted to prove my mother wrong
because she told me that if Iwas going into tourism, I will
not be successful because it wasvery hard and there was a lot of
people.
And you were not making a lot ofmoney.
(01:45):
From that moment on, I decidednot only I was going to follow
my passion, but I was alsodetermined to prove her wrong,
which I can share with you now,David, that she has told me
several times that she was wrongand that I did the good thing by
following my passion and so on.
(02:05):
All that to say that, yes, Ithink that the tipping point in
where I am today was to be.
To have a goal and to bedetermined to achieve it.
David Kong (02:16):
That's great.
That speaks a lot to yourdetermination and being driven.
You overcome some resistance.
Let's also talk about the bothsteps that you've taken in your
career.
You've taken a number of them.
How did you find the courage totake those both steps and what
can you share in terms oflearnings?
Carolyne Doyon (02:37):
Yeah, so I think the first thing for me was
always not to take anything forgranted.
Your success takes a long timeto to reach, and it can go very
quickly also, so you cannot takeyour success for granted.
Another learning for me was donot forget where you're coming
from.
(02:58):
Very important.
So it helps a lot in leadershipstyle and so on.
So always remember where youhave started, where you're
coming from, and always rememberwho you're speaking to.
And of course you can morerelate.
I find that it helps also do notever take kindness for weakness.
(03:18):
Because through my differentmoves and career, I was
fortunate to have very caringleaders and with different
style, but very caring.
And I find that it brings thebest out of you when you have a
caring leader that is there tosupport you, to let you grow, of
course, and make mistake.
(03:38):
But if it's done with kindnessand looking out for you, I think
that you can get even more sofrom yourself and also from your
team.
So it's not because you arekind, that you are weak.
And this is a mindset that Ithink that a lot of leader today
looking up to because it's veryimportant and after it's don't
(04:02):
be afraid to make mistake.
You take full move and mistakehappen when it does happen.
Recognize it.
Try to fail fast and learn fromit and get back on track and go
for your objectives.
So I would say that these arethe one that really, in terms of
every obstacle and every stepsthat I did, that I always kept
(04:23):
in mind and kept me focused.
David Kong (04:26):
Such great advice, and especially like a comment
about being caring and kind topeople.
It's a hallmark of a successfulleader in the early seventies or
eighties when I was coming up aletter.
The successful leaders are theones who are really intense and
tough, but how the world haschanged, we all appreciate other
(04:47):
people being kind and caringtowards us and helping us with
our career.
Yeah, so thanks for sharingthat.
Yeah.
Now, you went one day from beingin charge of sales to being in
charge of the whole company inNorth America and the Caribbean.
That's not an easy shift fromone day to the next.
Can you comment on the mindshift that are necessary in
(05:08):
order to advance your career?
Carolyne Doyon (05:10):
The mindset I started by telling you about
determination.
I think that.
Follows in that same, in thatsame line and the mindset that
you need to have that I believein.
So is that always be curious,ask a lot of question.
And again, don't take anythingfor granted because if you do,
then you are, you might miss outon some details or an
(05:33):
opportunity and so on.
So ask question for me is beingcurious.
I have a lot of determination.
You go for it.
Also, don't settle.
Because when you're a leader,sometimes you say, oh, if I go
this way, it could be theeasiest way.
But I always ask myself, is itthe best way?
And often it's not the easiestway, that it's the best way, and
(05:57):
sometimes it's the mostcomplicated one, but you know
that it might hurt at thebeginning, but in the midterm,
long term, it's gonna be better.
So always have a mindset ofasking yourself, am I doing this
because.
It's what should be done, or amI doing this for the right
purpose and this is the rightstep that I have to do.
(06:19):
After that, you need to trustyourself.
At some point, you have to say,okay, this is the objective.
I have a great, amazing teamnext to me.
Let's do it.
And maybe we don't have all thefacts and data, but let's do it.
And trust yourself, and youlearn to trust yourself a little
bit more with experience whenyou have realization and so on.
When you have failed a couple oftimes you know that you won't do
(06:41):
this again.
But once you have this as you goand the years pass by, you gain
a little bit more confidence.
And then even though you don'thave all the datas or all
everything that you would liketo take your decision, but you
just go and you trust yourself.
Yeah.
So I do believe that this is.
What shaped me and the mindsetthat I have today, and that I
(07:03):
think I trust to other leaders.
David Kong (07:06):
Yeah, I love this and I particularly like the
comment about trusting yourself.
There are many roles that leadto Rome and there are many
different ways to achieve whatyou wanna achieve, but trusting
yourself is the best way toaccomplish what you set out to
do.
Carolyne Doyon (07:22):
But again, you cannot do it alone.
You have to trust yourself.
In terms of leading.
But you need to be surrounded byan A team of incredible people
in order to do.
But of course there's someonethat usually leads to lead the
way, and you need to haveconfidence in yourself that you
can do it, so they can followyou and be with you, but
(07:43):
obviously alone or not gogetting anywhere.
David Kong (07:47):
I absolutely agree.
You need to surround yourselfwith the best people.
You can find people that aresmarter than you.
Yes.
And so you can trust them aswell.
Now advocating for ourselves isreally important for our own
success, and it's somethingthat's really difficult to do
because you don't wanna appearlike you are conceited.
You advocate for yourself.
Carolyne Doyon (08:09):
Uh, you are right David.
It's not an easy thing to do,and I'm much more easy to give
feedback to my team than for meto advocate for myself, but as
again, as you have moreexperience and so on, I do
believe the best way to advocatefor yourself, it's first to
remain true to who you are.
Always lead by example and befactual.
(08:35):
And that I, and again, I wastelling you earlier, but don't
take anything for granted.
When I advocate for myself, I'mnever in a position of this is
my natural next step, or this iswhat should come next.
No.
It's something that I aspire todo and I will come to the table
with the realizations, what Ican bring of course to the
(08:57):
business, and a vision and astrategy, and everything is
tangible and I know that when Isit down like any other
candidate.
So you have to come with yourbest self, obviously.
While remaining true to who youare, and of course bringing
tangible example and tangibleexperience that is important to
(09:22):
your next step where you wouldlike to go.
David Kong (09:25):
Sounds like you are saying that your actions and
results speak for themselves,but I'm also curious sometimes,
especially for those of us inthe minority group, women or
people of color.
It's hard to be noticed in acompany and how do you have
(09:46):
conversations with yoursupervisors or your superiors so
they know your career ambitionand that you have good results
to show?
Carolyne Doyon (09:57):
So I had the, the good fortune, if I may, to,
I've been working for Clementfor over 15 years now.
So I've grown within thecompany.
Come is a very human company andthey give us always ongoing
training and they trust you ifyou show, of course, talent, but
(10:19):
also determination and you wannagrow within so they invest in
you.
So I was telling you earlierthat caring leaders were along
my path.
So I got caring leaders thatwere able to push me.
And outside of my comfort zone.
And to show, to prove to myselfthat I was capable of doing
things that I didn't think itwas possible or achievable.
(10:43):
So by doing this step by step,you get results by having
results.
Of course, you've noticed whileyou notice what they say and you
raise your hand because you haveto raise your hand and to say, I
wanna sit at the table.
I've done this with the team sofar.
I think we can go further.
These are what we need and thisis where we wanna go.
(11:04):
And as you go, people start totrust you and trust you even
more.
See potential and after it's awheel.
And the importance is to reallyraise your hand to do it the
right way, but to say, you knowwhat?
I think I can do this.
No, I can do this.
That I think I can do this if Ihave the following means or if I
have the following opportunity.
(11:25):
And I was again, fortunateenough to have a company that
really believe in when it'speople and allow me to grow
within.
David Kong (11:34):
That's number one, right?
You have to work for the rightcompany with value, expertise,
and your experience and who youare.
Exactly.
That's great advice.
Now, next topic is aboutchallenges and disappointments.
We all encounter them, it'sinevitable, and I was wondering
if you could share some of thelessons that you've learned from
(11:54):
the challenges that you'veencountered.
Carolyne Doyon (11:58):
Yes, I had several challenges over my
professional life, but there'sone I would say that, and we can
talk about COVID and so on, butthere's one very unique, I think
about myself, is that again,when I decided to switch from
social science, to finish socialscience and to go into tourism,
(12:20):
and my mom was.
Saying you can't do that.
One of the other thing that Ididn't tell you is that I was
not speaking a word of English.
So I'm born in, raised inMontreal, French Canadian.
My first language is French andshe says, what are you gonna do
in tourism?
The language is, is English tous.
I, I'll learn it.
But back then I met earlytwenties and she goes, okay,
(12:42):
finally I did my studies.
I was.
Okay.
Still not speaking English, butI manage, and my first position
was at Delta Airlines.
So Delta Airlines, Americanbased company out of Atlanta.
And I wanted to work at theairport and I did the interview
and it's in Montreal.
So they asked me in French, doyou speak English?
(13:05):
And I said, yes, but in French,I did not really speak English.
And I said to myself, I reallywanna have.
The position.
So I committed to myself that Ineed to speak English for
obvious reason, and I learnedEnglish in four months.
Wow.
And on my own reading withdictionary, translating, full
(13:27):
immersion, watching movie and soon.
I learned it four months, noneed to tell you that.
Delta realized quite quicklythat I did not really, it was
fully bilingual.
Like I said, I was in French andthey saw that I was.
Going quite quickly intolearning and they kept me and I
keep going up and up within thatorganization at that time.
(13:50):
But that moment, which was a bigchallenge for me, I turned it
around and it create tremendousopportunity.
And one of them is being,talking here with you in English
and living now in Miami,Florida.
So.
David Kong (14:06):
That's what they say.
Challenges, uh, opportunities.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Exactly, exactly.
You turn that
David Kong (14:11):
challenge into a huge opportunity for yourself.
Kudos to you.
That's a delightful story.
Love that.
Now many of us struggle with theimposter syndrome, and could you
share some advice on how youshift that negative thinking
into something that's positiveand constructive?
Carolyne Doyon (14:31):
Yeah, impostor syndrome really do exist, and
for me, it's very much presentin my life and even after all
these years.
And one of the exam, I haveseveral of them, but one of them
that I can share with you isthat I've been asked to do a
keynote for Women's Forum in2024.
(14:55):
And when the PR agency broughtme the opportunity, my first
reaction was, I can't do that.
Why would I do that?
What would I say that wouldinterest all these professional
leaders and so on that I havenothing to say?
And they said, no, we believe.
And it was my first keynote.
I did a lot of interview.
(15:16):
I did a lot of round tables andpanels, but never a keynote.
And David, it was.
Very scary for me because,again, imposter syndrome.
I didn't think I had anythinginteresting to share apart from
my little story that I'm justresuming for you.
So what I learned is that Ineeded to prepare and I did
(15:40):
prepare, and I was coached and Iwas helped.
And again, you need to surroundyourself by the best team.
And I'm doing a shutout to Adam.
He will recognize himself, whichwas my coach, and we work on it.
Several hours and when Iarrived, it was in Toronto.
When I arrived on that stage,that very morning, I knew I was
(16:03):
ready and while I was doing thespeech, I was talking about
imposter syndrome and I wastelling them that I was having
it here on stage at that verymoment because it was my first
keynote and that I was stillasking myself, why am I doing
this again?
Because I am I reallyinteresting.
All that to say that it was awonderful experience.
(16:25):
I got a standing ovation and forme, that moment I said, okay, I
had the um, imposter syndromeand I still have it.
But when you prepare and whenyou get out of your comfort
zone, then anything can happen.
And that was a huge learner forme after did I enjoy it?
It's another story.
(16:46):
But no, it was a greatexperience.
But all that to say that, yes,it's, it's the imposter
syndrome.
Like you cannot have a betterstudy case than this.
David Kong (16:57):
Yeah.
I'm so glad you shared thatstory and your advice on being
prepared.
I is such a wonderful.
Thing for us all to remember.
When you're prepared, you'remuch more ready to take on that
imposter syndrome.
Now, I was wondering if youcould share the best advice
(17:17):
you've ever received.
Carolyne Doyon (17:20):
The best advice I receive in doubt.
There's no doubt that is reallythe best advice I've received.
I receive a lot, but it tags toevery, sorry.
IT tags to everything.
It can tags to hr, it can tagsto business.
(17:42):
It can tags for everything.
So when you doubt aboutsomething.
There's no doubt, stop.
Because often we would say, oh,I'm not sure I'm, if something
doesn't feel right, it's becauseit's not right.
And this is something that Ichallenge my team every day
with.
Sometimes they come to me withsomething and I said, what do
you think this, this person orthis project or this?
(18:04):
I said, what do you think?
I'm not sure.
I I do you doubt?
Yes.
But I said, there's no doubt.
Then.
And now they're starting to see.
And for me, it was really one ofthe best advice I've received
amongst surround yourself withthe best people you know.
Don't ever be afraid to have allthe best of any field around
(18:24):
you.
They will be better than you.
They will know better than youin terms of their own feel.
And you know what?
It's okay.
And you can always learn fromthem and you bring them
something else.
So that's the beauty of a team,of course.
But these are the two advicethat I would say really guide me
still today, every day.
David Kong (18:45):
Good advice.
I love that.
I think a little doubt issometimes our mechanism of
making sure that we've thoughtthrough everything.
So it's probably okay, but onceyou decide to pursue something,
you have to go at it with fullgusto, with full conviction.
So I totally agree with you onthat.
(19:09):
I am curious as,'cause I havecertainly evolved how I define
success as I progressed.
Through my career.
And what about you?
Do you think about successdifferently than you did five
years ago?
Carolyne Doyon (19:24):
Yes, I do, and I have COVID to thanks for that,
if I may.
And all that craziness, it allowme to take a step back and to
really be able to see thegreater picture.
Then just let's say a salesresort, the results on the spot
(19:45):
and say, oh, we have the, Irealize in time that often you
do everything you can to haveeverything in place and you can
have the best plan, butunfortunately things happen and
the outcome is not what youexpected.
(20:06):
Do we have a.
Commercial or a budget success,the answer might not, will not
be no because for some reasonthat it's out of your control.
But once you're able to take astep back and to say, we've done
everything we could and we'vedone it really well, did the
outcome worked?
No, unfortunately, but we knowwhy.
(20:28):
If we could control, then we'renot successful.
If we can control and it's outof our hands, but we did
everything.
Then we are successful and wewill learn from that.
Five or 10 years ago, weprobably would've this
conversation.
I would tell you if the budgetis not achieved, if my costs are
not under control, if this isthis, it would've been a
(20:49):
completely different definitionof success.
So yes, I see success with muchmore now.
Again, a greater vision and muchmore.
That was what was put into itthan the end results, which
still have to be.
Positive.
How did we get there?
I see this more than just,
David Kong (21:12):
I'm so glad you said that.
'cause a lot of people struggleto define success, and I'm so
glad that you added clarity tothis.
Let's talk about how we canbuild confidence and influence
because that is so important inour success.
I have people come up to me andsay, I don't know what it is
about.
(21:33):
Me being in a meeting and Ilisten to conversation, I
volunteer my thought and nobodypays any attention to me.
And then afterwards, somebodyrestates the same idea as mine
and all of a sudden that's likethe best thing since sliced
bread.
Why is that?
And I often try to suggest thatmaybe it's a lack of influence
(21:55):
and maybe it's a lack ofconfidence in how the idea was
stated.
And maybe there are otherreasons.
So.
Building confidence andinfluence is crucial to our
success.
What advice can you provide uson this?
Carolyne Doyon (22:11):
I think that there's nothing that build
confidence more than havingsmall wins.
You don't need to havetremendous three year plan and
so on because it might take awhile.
I always say start with babysteps.
Get out of your comfort zone,try learn, and it probably will
(22:36):
work.
And if it does work, you say,oh, I was able to do this much,
then I can do this much.
And I think that confidence,it's not built overnight, it
builds with, I was telling youearlier, but the realization,
the small win to see someonegrow.
So give yourself some target.
Which are your own target, notnecessarily the company you work
(22:59):
for, but you know that for youto reach these target, it's
asking you quite a bit becauseyou know it's not something
maybe you're used to or you'regetting completely out of your
comfort zone, but once you do itand you say, okay, I was able to
do this, do it again.
So don't be afraid to challengeyourself and to set goals for
(23:19):
yourself.
You will build your confidenceafter.
I was telling you about beingcaring leadership.
If you are true to yourself, ifyou are loyal, honest to the
people that you're around, thenthe influence come naturally.
This is what we call leadership,right?
(23:40):
I am not a manager.
I wanna be a leader, and I'mtrying to give this to my team
because in order to influence,for me, it's more lead.
Is that you have to have thepeople that believe in you and
that wants to follow you.
And how do you do this?
This by staying true toyourself.
(24:01):
Of course, lead by example.
Raise your hand if you made amistake and make it better and
give success to your team whenit's due and things like that.
But everything, the confidenceand the influence, they go hand
in hand and they go step bystep.
Because the more you are gonnahave confidence in yourself, the
(24:21):
more you're going inspire theteam and your clients, and the
more you inspire them, yourinfluence always coming
naturally.
But it takes some times, it doestake some times.
David Kong (24:33):
Yes, I totally agree with you.
It's a lot of small wins thatbegin to build your confidence
and influence.
Wonderful.
Sharing that with us, I see thatwe are coming almost to the end
of our show.
So I have two other questionsfor you.
One is you've had a spectacularcareer journey and you have a
(24:55):
young son that's with youthrough this journey.
What.
Lesson do you want your son topick up through this journey?
Carolyne Doyon (25:05):
My son, Sam, is 14-year-old, 13 years old.
I want him to know that nothinggood come easily.
You know it when we say it's toogood to be true.
It is too good to be true.
So I want for him to know earlyon that.
If he sets himself a goal or asmall win or something that he
(25:28):
has to himself put the effortbecause success doesn't come on
its own.
So for him, if he just onething, of course, good values
and so on, but for him, in termsprofessionally, nothing.
Good comes easy and we knowthis, but often sometimes we're
sidetracked.
So if you can just keep this inmind, I think you will have a
(25:50):
good roadmap.
David Kong (25:55):
I totally agree with you.
That's great advice for son.
Now I'll show Isabelself-empowerment, and if you can
provide one final piece ofadvice that would be on every
billboard in North America, whatwould that be?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
You've got this.
David Kong (26:15):
You got this,
Speaker 3 (26:17):
you've got this.
Yes.
David Kong (26:19):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Yeah.
David Kong (26:20):
I love that.
A lot of times it's the mindset,right?
You've got this.
You gotta believe in yourself
Carolyne Doyon (26:27):
because sometimes you're in doubt and
you have to tell you some.
You've got this.
Again, it's all tied up to theimpost.
I love that.
David Kong (26:33):
I love that.
Because if you don't believe inyourself, why should anyone
believe in you?
You've got this.
What a great model.
Thank you.
Carolyne Doyon (26:42):
Are we gonna make some billboard of it so I
can give it to my team and toeverybody?
I think
David Kong (26:48):
you got this.
Let's soon take over the NikeSweep.
If you enjoy the show withCarolyn, I hope you join us on
our website.
It's personal stories.com.
Carolyn, it's such a pleasure tohave you.
Your comments have been mostinsightful and beneficial.
(27:09):
Thank you very much for takingthe time to be on the show.
Carolyne Doyon (27:13):
Again, thank you so much for having me, David,
and let's speak soon.
Thank you.
David Kong (27:17):
Yeah, let's speak soon.
Thank you.
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