Dave shares the importance for both career and joy to collide. An accomplished Executive Recruiter, he discusses the Top 2 Tips for negotiating an offer letter, which most people rarely do, and 3 Traits that make current candidates stand out, which differ from the past. He also explains why everyone in hospitality has an obligation to make our industry the Employer of Choice, which it currently is not.
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Episode Transcript
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Lan Elliott (00:00):
Welcome to its Personal Stories, a hospitality
podcast.
My name is Lan Elliot on behalfof its personal stories, and
today I'm really pleased to haveDavid Sba with us, the Managing
Partner, global Hospitality andLeisure for DHR Global.
Welcome, David.
David Mansbach (00:19):
Hi, great to be here with you, LAN.
Lan Elliott (00:21):
Wonderful to have you here, and I've had the
pleasure to know you for manyyears.
I almost feel like we've come upin the industry together over, I
won't say how many years, butI'm wondering if you could share
some of the inflection points ofyour successful career.
'cause it's been incredible, butit would be great to understand
(00:43):
what were some of the pivotpoints that were really
instrumental and if there's afactor or factors that you.
Think were key to your success.
David Mansbach (00:53):
Great.
Yeah, I'll walk you through itand hit some inflection points.
Counting degree.
Graduated in 1991.
Looking for the job for a job inNew York City.
Had no clue.
And by pure luck, and againyou'll see the theme here.
It's all mentorship, greatadvice and luck.
Secured my first job inaccounting.
It just happened to be in ahotel.
(01:15):
That hotel happened to be one ofthe best hotels in the country,
in the world, being the PlazaHotel in New York.
So showed up my first day afterinterviewing with the CFO of the
hotel, Patrick O'Malley.
I was in 1991, I'll never forgetit, and did my thing.
Four weeks in, he came over tome, put his hand on my back.
(01:35):
He said, Dave, you lookmiserable.
I'm like, what do you mean I'mjust doing my thing?
He goes you are not the guy Iinterviewed you.
You're quiet, you look unhappy.
And he's what's going on?
And I'm stumbling.
I don't know, I just, I'm in myfirst job in my first month.
He said, what do you wanna do?
And I said, I wanna do whatthose people are doing.
(01:56):
And I pointed to the other sideof the office.
There were 15 people in salesand marketing and conference
services.
And they're talking this runningaround the hotel and.
He goes, come with me.
And he introduced me to Tom Ano,who actually still is in the
business, and is my firstmentor.
And that ties into the firstinflection point about three
(02:19):
years into an incredible eightyear journey there.
I literally can write a book onthe experiences, being customer
facing dealing with.
Every celebrity, everydignitary.
It was just such a cool place.
And three years in, I rememberthe numbers.
I was making$22,000 a year.
(02:40):
I'm dating myself here and I gota job offer for$26,000 a year.
That's big numbers.
Big numbers.
So I went into Tom and I said,Tom, listen I'm gonna move on.
I no thought, didn't callanybody, had no clue.
Just went in and he goes, sitdown.
So I sit down, he goes, twothings.
He goes, you're not goinganywhere and I'm gonna give you
(03:02):
the money you need to stay here.
Okay?
He goes, but this is the lasttime you're gonna do this.
He goes, I'm here for you togive you career advice.
He goes, you're not gonna behere forever.
But when the time's right, we'regonna make this decision
together.
And I said, okay.
I said, oh my God, I'm able tostay here, continue to do what
(03:22):
I'm doing, which I loved.
And had another five yearsthere.
Funny enough the hotel I wasgonna go to he said, you're
gonna make a wrong decision ifyou go there.
And he said, if so that, thathotel basically changed
ownership two years after.
So first inflection point is youneed a mentor.
I am so lucky.
(03:44):
It literally could be that Iwould not be in this industry if
it wasn't for Tom.
Went on, did some great thingsat the right time.
I said to Tom, listen,operations is not for me.
I love this business.
What can I do?
We talked through, he said,there's this firm out on Long
Island called HBS.
Give them the call.
They do consulting.
(04:04):
I'm like consulting.
Cool.
I had no idea what consultingis.
Sent the letter to SteveRushmore.
Steve quickly introduced me tomy partner of 20 years.
Keith Capin met with Keith andhe said, you wanna do executive
search?
And I said, sure.
I have no clue what executivesearch is, but I'll do executive
(04:25):
search.
I learned the business and itreally leads to inflection point
number two.
I remember in the first weekthere I came in, I thought I
knew everything about the hotelindustry.
And I'm sitting down withHBSers.
People that really know thebusiness, they're talking in
terms like RevPAR and segmentclass and asset management.
(04:50):
I had no clue.
I thought I knew everything.
I knew nothing.
I didn't know what an assetmanager was.
I said, I gotta learn thisstuff.
And fortunately through thepeople I worked with I just
became a sponge and learned thebusiness.
But it really.
Made me understand that if I'mgonna do something, I think it's
critical to become specialized.
(05:12):
And I really, from that pointon, said I'm gonna really take
ownership of the hotel industryand the restaurant industry as
well.
I do a lot of work in therestaurant industry and, I just
became, I just learned I wasaround some really smart people.
Any question people were thereto mentor people that were
younger than me, people thatwere o older than me.
(05:34):
And that was key to reallylaunch me into being a true
professional in the world ofexecutive search.
Now I think I'm in.
I call it the third quarter ofmy career I have the ability to
work with all the people I grewup with in the industry like
yourself.
Everybody's in leadership roles.
(05:55):
I now do know what I'm talkingabout, thank God.
And just having a blast and thatthe, that's the next inflection
point.
It's.
Since I was at HBS, I'velaunched my own search firm,
I've been involved in this worldand doing it, and you really
need to have the ability to makesure work and pleasure collide.
(06:20):
They have to collide.
It's just there's so much thatgoes into doing anything right,
and the ability to have themcollide is just.
It's important, but it's thebest thing ever.
And that's where I'm at rightnow.
I'm in Q3 of my, I would saycareer, if you will.
I don't know that fourthinflection point yet.
(06:41):
We shall see.
But I think I know what it is,but I'm just I'm running, I'm
working in a great industry andthat really covers the journey
in some, I think, key points.
Again, it was all aroundmentorship.
Great advice and just dumb luck.
Think about it.
My first job just happened to bein a hotel, and that hotel was a
(07:02):
Plaza Hotel.
Lan Elliott (07:04):
I'm glad that your first accounting job was in the
hospitality industry, and evenif it was luck.
I do see a theme that oncepeople discover hospitality,
they think this is actually agreat industry to be in.
So I love that theme.
I also love that your mentor wasvery clear with you that we're
(07:24):
going to make these decisionstogether.
I'm here for you.
You don't always get someonewho's going to come right out
and tell you in so many wordsthat they're basically your
mentor.
And I think also your opennessto different.
Roles and trying differentthings.
But I particularly loved thepiece where he noticed that you
(07:45):
didn't have joy in youraccounting role and you didn't
bring that and it was not thespark he knew that you had and
that he was so supportive andhelping you find that.
So I think it's so important tofind that thing that is your
thing.
David Mansbach (08:00):
Yes, I agree a hundred percent.
Lan Elliott (08:04):
Along your journey through the various quarters,
where do you seek resources orguidance in terms of leadership
skills, professional skills?
Do you have a favoriteleadership resource that.
You could share with ouraudience?
David Mansbach (08:22):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I think it's twofold.
I think it's resources andnetwork network.
I know we're gonna talk aboutextensively through this because
one, it's been a key theme in mycareer, but in listening to a
lot of the other people you'veinterviewed, it's a key theme
for them as well.
In terms of resources.
I'm fortunate, I just love toabsorb information.
(08:43):
And in information, call it 2.0right now, it's not just reading
books, it's podcasts, it'sreading books it's everything.
And what I love, I, I think andis key in dealing with C-Suite
executives and strategy isbiographies.
I think biographies are theclosest thing.
To a time machine that exists.
(09:03):
It's so cool and eerie when yougo back and read biographies
about things that have happened50 a hundred years ago and how
the same things are happening inthe same way today.
One one, the biography I'mreading right now is on Robert
Moses.
I'm a Long Islander in New York.
He really built the entireinfrastructure.
So everything from the politicsto what he's done to literally
(09:24):
driving the roads that he'sbuilt it, it's just the coolest
thing.
So biographies in leadership in,in, in just all different type,
diverse is key.
Just different types of people.
Steve Jobs was a great one.
Forged In Crisis, which talksabout leaders like Abraham
Lincoln and Erna, Shackletonfacing adversity.
(09:45):
It's all really good stuff.
Podcasts again, you could learnI think these days as much from
an expert in the medical field.
And how to apply it to yourbusiness as you can from a
leader in, in, in our business.
And while some may think this isweird, boring, and crazy what's
made me very powerful in mythinking is the ability to
(10:08):
listen to investor callsquarterly investor calls,
reading annual reports.
I'm a compensation nerd.
I have to, reading thecompensation Committee,
committee reports.
So I spend a lot of time on thepublic companies, both in the
hotel and the restaurant space.
Digging into that information.
It really whether you're arecruiter in the business, it
(10:30):
could make super, super smart.
So that's resources.
Lan Elliott (10:33):
Those are really great ones.
And the Steve Job biography, hasbeen mentioned a few times.
I understand it's very big.
But it's on my to-do list to, toread that at some point you had
touched on the importance ofdeveloping a network as being
one of the factors in yoursuccess.
And obviously with hospitality,people staying within the
(10:55):
industry for a long time, youhave the chance to see those
relationships evolve and grow.
But for a lot of people, thisidea of networking sounds scary.
The first thought I think a lotof people get is walking into
that ballroom at a cocktailparty with 200 people.
You don't know.
Yeah.
But it encompasses a lot morethan just, that moment in time.
(11:18):
I'm curious how you've developedyour network, which.
Obviously super important as anexecutive recruiter, how do you
develop it in a way that'snatural for you?
David Mansbach (11:28):
Yeah, this is probably my favorite topic and I
love counseling students cominginto the industry.
It's one of my favorite thingsto do, and it's really as, as
important at the C-suite to havea network as well.
When I started and again I havean interesting lens.
'cause in professional services,in order to get business, you
need to build a network.
And when I started, I would justgo and say, okay, I want to do
(11:51):
business with Company X, so I'mgonna reach out to the decision
makers at Company X and try toget their business.
And I failed miserably.
Literally my hit ratio wasprobably close to 0%.
And at that time I startedrealizing that mentors could be
helpful.
So I did go to some people andreally what it came back to as.
(12:16):
In order to build a network, thefoundation is you have to
identify people that you like,that you enjoy being with, and
most importantly, people thatyou sincerely want to help.
It has to start with helpingother people.
If you're going and you'relooking for something, it's very
rare that you're going to getthat until you develop
(12:39):
relationships and help peopleout.
And fortunately, I love helpingpeople out.
I love giving advice.
So with that, that shift andthat tweak that's where it just
beca, it didn't change overnightfor me, but till this day I have
this concept where I have.
I call it my Power one 50.
These are people that arefriends, that are clients that
(13:03):
are candidates I place that arein my personal network, through
family where I could just pickup the phone and call them
anytime.
And I know they will call andhelp me as well, and it's led
to.
Something v it's very fulfillingboth personally and
professionally.
(13:24):
And the bonus is these peoplebecome your personal board of
advisors.
So you have the ability to getreal professional advice from
someone that really knows whatthey're talking about.
I talked about beingspecialized.
I could go super specialize.
I haven't shared this in apublic forum.
But when the pandemic hit I.
(13:46):
Everybody in the hotel space waslike, wow what's the world gonna
look like?
And I took advantage of themassive slowdown and wanted to
hit on something that I alwayswanted to do, which is enter
into the restaurant business.
More specifically, I always, Iworked with a lot of
entrepreneurial restaurantfranchisees.
(14:09):
And I said, why not do that?
And two of my friends, one,again, very a real estate expert
and the other one a corporateattorney.
They were friends, they were inthe same situation.
We said we're gonna go on ajourney and try to do this.
And what did I do?
I just simply picked up thephone and called three CEOs that
(14:30):
are in my power, one 50 in mynetwork that know 50 times more
than me.
In the restaurant space.
And I said, if you were to dothis, what are the two, three
brands you would call?
And they all said, forget aboutthree brands.
There's one brand, and that'sJersey Mike's.
And we all know Jersey Mike's.
(14:51):
And, again, a lot of luck.
We got into the system and we'vebeen in the system for four
years.
I have a wonderful operatingpartner that runs the business
so I can focus in on this'causethis is what I really love.
But it, it just goes back toleveraging people that are just
much smarter than you.
And if you take the approachthat you want to help them, it's
(15:14):
a win, win on so many levels.
Lan Elliott (15:19):
That's an incredible story.
Could you dig a little bitdeeper into how you're helping
other people?
Because obviously you're askingthem for help.
So how do you make it thatyou're helping other people?
Is it being genuinely interestedand offering to help?
David Mansbach (15:36):
First it's really understanding and it's
not a coincidence that it, it'scalled Power one 50.
It's impossible to have a power1000.
There's just been studies thatcommunities going back hundreds,
200, 300 years, thousands ofyears, communities were always
designed around 130 to 200people because that's when you
really know each personindividually.
(15:58):
So it starts with, really justknowing like Land Elliot is in
my Power one 50.
I know what interests youpersonally, professionally, and
if I read an article that I knowwould be of interest to you.
I'm gonna send it to you.
I love when someone calls andsays, I need advice on this.
Usually people are calling mewhen it comes to, do you know a
(16:21):
company culture?
Do you know this CEO that I'mgonna go work for?
What are your thoughts aroundcompensation?
So it's really it's a funjourney and it's really helping
people that way.
Yeah.
Lan Elliott (16:34):
And it's really getting to know people as
individuals and building thatrelationship, helping each
other.
And then when you have that ask,you already have a relationship
that you can lean on when you'relooking for something.
Absolutely.
And it's
David Mansbach (16:45):
so critical.
It really is critical, but it'sgotta come from a place where
you really wanna help the personand the person really wants to
help you.
I've had many individuals overmy career funnel in and out of
my power one 50.
Not just for no other reasonthan, things change.
They may move international.
It's just whatever it is.
(17:06):
There's been some people that,quite honestly, I've helped and
when I've asked for help inreturn, it wasn't there.
Life's too short.
But I'm personally good withhaving 150 trusted advisors at
any point in time.
Lan Elliott (17:19):
I love that you had touched on during the pandemic,
you started franchising Jersey,Mike.
Restaurants and.
Obviously the pandemic haschanged a lot in our industry.
One of the trends we've seen inhospitality downturns is, and
(17:40):
I'll speak more specifically tothe real estate area, which is
the area that I know, but Ithink it translates to other
areas of the industry, is we letthe junior team members go.
They're usually the analysts orthe people early in their
careers go, and then theindustry always turns around and
about three years later.
(18:00):
You're looking for junior peoplewho have two to three years of
experience, which is what thosepeople would've had if you
would've kept them around atthat point in time.
And I'm curious what you thinkabout this and what do you tell
clients who come to you?
And I know you work mostly atthe executive level, but in
general who are looking forpeople and we have this cycle of
(18:22):
letting people go and then we'relooking for.
Those people and the industryhas made them into unicorns if
they're still around.
David Mansbach (18:30):
Yeah.
I'll speak to the hotelindustry, and a lot of this is
in the restaurant space as well.
You look at the two biggestshocks, which were the 2000
eight, nine recession, and ofcourse the global pandemic, and
then there's some mini shockslike nine 11 and the tech bust
and so forth.
The first fault for the hotelindustry is what you've just
(18:51):
said.
It's around human capital andright sizing for a downturn.
Again, I'm empathetic.
I know what it takes to run abusiness successfully, and I
know how companies weremassively hit.
And I also know while they laidoff people they spent a lot of
time taking care of thosepeople, especially, which, which
speaks to the specialness of ourspace.
(19:13):
Most companies in otherindustries would just lay off in
this industry.
I had one client, fromhousekeeper up, it was, we wanna
make sure they have food.
We wanna make sure theirfamilies are healthy.
But to your point, and it's notjust entry level there's a move
to reduce talent and it's atwofold problem.
(19:33):
One the hotel industry at largetill this day, I think still
needs to do a better job inbecoming.
The segment, the employer ofchoice.
And it's just not, I know, it'sa podcast in itself and I think
there's a lot of opportunity andthere's some good, smart people
out there that are spending alot of time making this the
(19:57):
employer of choice.
But these high performersthey're gonna pivot.
They're gonna hustle.
And whether they're starting attheir career, their mid-career
at the C-suite they're gonna,they're gonna do things.
And we're losing a lot of peoplebecause the skillset is
transferable to otherindustries.
So now we're here again, I thinkin a place.
(20:21):
Where succession planning at thetop of the org chart is a
problem.
And finding entry level peoplefor this industry.
And I think everybody, I thinkcompanies, recruiters, colleges,
all have an obligation that arespecialized in this space to
really make this an employer ofchoice.
(20:42):
But with that said for peoplelistening to this podcast it's
creating a lot of opportunityfor people that are coming into
this industry because a lot ofthese organizations, whether
it's a hotel, a private equitygroup a publicly traded reit,
they are running lean and mean,and it's giving people that are
(21:02):
entering the business theopportunity to do a lot more.
Early on just because there'snot enough infrastructure of
talent internally.
So the chaos is going to createopportunity, but it's here right
now and it's a problem.
Yeah.
Lan Elliott (21:21):
I'm curious, you present a lot of candidates to
your clients as potential hires.
What makes a candidate standout?
If you had to pick one thingthat you wish.
Candidates.
David Mansbach (21:35):
Yeah, that's, yeah.
I would say skillset isimportant, but it's not the most
important thing.
I think there are certaintraits, I call it the critical
three.
Okay.
That every candidate, again,whether it's entry level and
some C-suite executives stillneed to work on this.
And it's empathy, resilience.
(21:56):
Self-awareness and humility inthere as well.
And I think that the bettercompanies that are really
concerned, the companies thatare really concerned about their
culture and really importingtalent in, and now having to pay
more for talent, they're reallypaying attention to this
skillset.
(22:17):
It's gonna it's not going away.
Again, maybe we'll touch on ai.
But if you look at an analyst.
Within two, three years, that'sgonna be a lot of AI driven and
that's gonna create otherproblems because if you don't
get the ability to live andbreathe as an analyst, how do
you go into asset management oracquisitions?
But to me, and to answer yourquestion, it starts with
(22:39):
personality traits and thosetraits and people are really
looking closely.
I spend a lot of time through myinterviews really screening out
for personality traits.
Core skillset, pastaccomplishments are very
important.
And but that, that, that's whatI say is the most important.
Lan Elliott (22:59):
Empathy is probably not something that would be at
the top of anyone's.
List, I'd say 10, 15 years ago.
So that is definitely a trend.
Let's talk a little bit aboutAI, because you had mentioned it
and there was a recent study byUnia HR where they went in and
tested three popular AI toolsfor screening resumes.
(23:22):
And it was a bit shockingbecause those three tools only
agreed on 14% of the resumes.
I
David Mansbach (23:29):
had one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And,
Lan Elliott (23:31):
and that's a bit scary, right?
So thoughts on, yeah,
David Mansbach (23:33):
no, I know where you're going with this and
there's a little irony in thiswhole situation.
And I was I had lunch with asenior very senior HR executive
within our industry this week,earlier this week.
And he is not using AI yet.
When it comes to screening Ithink what's happening,
especially at the largercompanies, is internal
(23:54):
recruiters, and I'm even seeingthis in the world of executive
search as well.
They're placing too muchemphasis on ai.
And what's happening is becauseat a point in time it's gonna be
extremely powerful, but rightnow the algorithms.
Are, we're losing.
Companies are losing out onreally good people because
(24:18):
they're seeing a lot of resumesand they're being screened out
by the algorithms.
And it's a dangerous thing.
'cause now what's happening, asI said before, I mentor a lot of
students, people coming in, andit's scary.
Some of these, these individualsare coming to me and they're
saying, Dave, what are the keywords I should have in my
resume?
(24:39):
So you have a reactive play inthat people are gaming their
resumes, and the irony then isit creates more work for the
internal recruiters.
So again, I am confident at apoint in time AI is gonna play a
very powerful role in screening,but right now it it's creating a
(25:02):
lot of.
A lot of chaos for internalrecruiters and not doing
companies justice.
So I would encourage internalrecruiters strategists that are
thinking about human capital inany space to really get smart on
AI and understand where they'reas much missing out as much on
(25:23):
the other side where they thinkthere's gonna be efficiencies.
Lan Elliott (25:26):
Yeah I know when I've tried to hire, for example,
junior people and the internalrecruiter would come to me with,
these are all the people, and Ithought, there's gotta be more.
And she goes, there, there aremore.
But I screened them out and Isaid, I wanna see them all
David Mansbach (25:41):
right.
Lan Elliott (25:41):
And the person we ended up hiring was in that pile
that she hadn't presented to me.
So I think.
Knowing what you're looking forand taking the time.
It's such an important piece ofadding someone to your team.
Not just skills like you said,but having the same values, the
same cultural views, in terms ofwhat's important, what you're
(26:04):
looking for that will make yourteam cohesive.
I wanted to talk aboutnegotiating offer letters, and I
spent most of my careernegotiating contracts on behalf
of my company, but I'm still notvery good at negotiating, offer
letters for myself and.
It's just something that'suncomfortable because you wanna
join the company, you're excitedto join the company.
(26:26):
Now you think, how hard do Iactually wanna negotiate this
and maybe burn some bridgesbefore I've even walked in the
door on my first day?
What advice do you have forpeople who wanna do the best job
negotiating their offer letter,but don't wanna rub people the
wrong way?
David Mansbach (26:45):
Yeah I think it's.
It is an interesting topic.
It's a sensitive topic.
I have a whole team ofrecruiters within this
organization, and I went throughit myself.
In talking with candidates it'sjust always becomes an
uncomfortable situation, talkingabout compensation and it's
(27:06):
just, it just shouldn't be astaboo as it is.
The two things that aresurprising to me is if people
are leveraging their networks.
Recruiters love to help.
We love to give free advice.
Okay.
And it's surprising we do notget that many calls.
From our friends in theindustry, candidates, we built
(27:26):
relationships with C-Suite anddown saying, Hey, what are the
trends, you are seeing in termsof compensation?
What are some ideas based onthis?
And definitely as we go down theorg chart, we don't see this.
And I think everybody quicklygoes to one piece of the
compensation mix, which is basesalary, and it's a mix for a
(27:50):
reason.
It's base salary.
It's bonus, there's potentiallong-term opportunity.
There's the intrinsic careerprogression and everybody gets
caught in that base salarynumber.
And on top of that, now back tothe conversation about AI is I
know the numbers and I haveclients and candidates running
(28:13):
numbers off of AI that aremassively.
Inconsistent with what the realnumbers are out there.
So around this whole con thiswhole conversation, the better
executive recruiters that arerepresenting clients will do a
good job serving as a liaisonbetween the candidate and the
(28:34):
client to help where it's awin-win for everybody and it's
transparent conversation.
The better senior level HRexecs.
They're calling recruiters andsaying, what are you seeing out
there and what are the trends?
But there are a lot of people inthat third bucket that are just
(28:54):
going in and they're justforget.
I wouldn't even use the termnegotiation.
They're not, they're just stuckon base salary, where they're
at, what they think the marketis, and they start there.
And I think it's just becomesmarter.
Like I said I'm not, I knoweverybody's not gonna read the
(29:14):
compensation philosophy Lee of acomp publicly traded company
that they're considering injoining.
But you could certainly learn alot about do they pay, is they
pay for performance?
Do they pay a high base salariesand just take a more thoughtful,
longer term approach tonegotiation.
Because it's just bigger thanone piece of the compensation
(29:38):
mix where everybody just spendstoo much emphasis on, but lever
leverage people.
There's a lot of pe recruiterswant to help.
I'm sure people that are inyour, on your side of the
business that are younger couldcall you and I know you would
want to help.
So it's just get moreinformation, get smarter about
it.
Lan Elliott (29:57):
Yeah, leverage your network, ask for advice back
David Mansbach (30:00):
to the network.
Lan Elliott (30:01):
Yes.
I do think people are sometimesn nervous and it's a bit
vulnerable to ask for advice,but I think you can't do a good
job for yourself if you don'thave the right information.
David Mansbach (30:13):
It's a very, it's a very interesting it's a
very sensitive topic.
You'll be out to dinner withfriends and you could talk about
all your health issues.
And unfortunately, I'm gettingto the point where the, that's
starting to be the topic ofconversation, but no one talks
about s salary or this or that.
It's just, it's always been aninteresting, it's just been a
(30:34):
very interesting topic, butthere are some good resources
out there and it's usually inpeople that are experts in that
area.
Lan Elliott (30:42):
I love that, and I love the idea of.
You developing a network ofrecruiters that you help out
when they have requests, butthen they can also be a great
resource for you when you'renegotiating offer letter to help
give you some advice and somecontext.
So
David Mansbach (30:58):
again I am saying this as one of many
executive recruiters out there,I just, I had nothing to do with
the search.
I had a account call me.
And I helped him negotiate hisentire package and he said,
thank you so much.
This was helpful.
I'm getting nothing from it.
And it was so rewarding and itwas a win because he's taken the
(31:22):
opportunity, he's moving hisfamily.
It's a big move.
And I think everybody, includingthe group that he was
negotiating with, appreciatedthe thoughtfulness and the short
and long-term thinking.
Around the totality of thepackage.
Lan Elliott (31:37):
I love that.
I'm calling you next time if Iget a job.
Anytime.
David Mansbach (31:40):
Anytime.
Lan Elliott (31:42):
We are coming up on the end of our discussion, but I
had two last questions for you.
The first one is probably myfavorite question that I ask all
our guest advisors, which is,what advice would you give to
your younger self, that22-year-old self?
What would you tell him?
David Mansbach (32:05):
I would say two things.
I would say one celebrate yoursuccesses both personally and
professionally.
Anybody who is motivated andserious about their career
typically achieves something andmoves right onto the next thing.
And I'll never forget it was, Iwas prob it was about 15 years
(32:26):
ago.
And it was towards Christmas andtwo different candidates sent me
beautiful, wine and candy andall this stuff with notes and I
was away on business and mydaughter read it and it was,
thank you so much.
My family, so appreciative,we're settled in this, and this.
(32:46):
And she came to me and I thinkat the time she was like.
12 years old, she's dad, this isreally important.
This is cool.
And I'm like I, she had to makeme realize that it's wow, I
actually just moved a family offive.
And on top of that this personhas, has a change in career and
(33:07):
so forth.
And ever since then, what I did.
And I think I read this in abook, actually, this is not an
idea I came up with because Ireally don't come up with ideas.
I just read ideas is throughoutthe year, I just wrote down in
an Excel sheet all the things,small successes, big successes.
You go back to that list at theend of the year, it's pretty
powerful.
(33:27):
You really don't realize whatyou do.
And everybody's just forwardthinking.
And you really.
Should celebrate your success.
I think the other thing ispeople, and this is people
starting off in their career andgoing back to my 22 year self,
you have to be patient, you haveto be the career progression.
It's not linear.
(33:48):
It's not oh, every year you seea little bit of an increase,
especially in the world ofprofessional services.
And I'm going on year, I think25 now.
And it's you have to understandthat.
It's more compound than linearand you just have to be patient
because I see it in some of theyounger people.
They get frustrated too earlyand they react too severely.
(34:12):
IE leave an industry, leave acompetency where they just need
to give it a little bit moretime.
So those would be the two thingsthat really, stand out.
Lan Elliott (34:22):
Thank you.
Great advice.
And.
Our last question.
You have offered so much amazingadvice during our discussion and
keeping in mind that itspersonal stories.
Mission is around empoweringpersonal success.
Do you have one final nugget ofadvice for our audience who are
(34:44):
looking to advance their career?
David Mansbach (34:47):
I would go back to the, to two things we've
discussed.
I would say it's those criticalthree, those personality traits
the empathy the emotionalintelligence, and there's
subsets like even gut thinking.
Personality traits are gonna beso key moving forward because
skillset wallow will always beimportant.
AI is gonna be playing a verydifferent role in not just the
(35:10):
hotel industry, but everyindustry.
So really constantly work onyourself, especially around the
humility and self-awareness.
It's very important.
And then the other piece is thenetwork.
Everybody, that, that's whatevens the playing field for
everybody.
Keep your network diverse.
And really build a network.
(35:32):
There's no reason whether you're22 or 55, you could always
continue to be meeting people,interesting people that could
help advance as you change, asevolve as an I person.
So those would be my two things,Lynn.
Lan Elliott (35:48):
Amazing.
Thank you so much, David.
I really enjoyed ourconversation and really grateful
for you to come on and shareyour thoughts and for our
audience, if you've enjoyed thisinterview with Dave, I hope you
will go to our website, it'spersonal stories.com for many
more hospitality industry leaderinterviews.
(36:11):
Thank you.
Thanks Dave.
Welcome to its Personal Stories, a hospitality
podcast.
My name is Lan Elliot on behalfof its personal stories, and
today I'm really pleased to haveDavid Sba with us, the Managing
Partner, global Hospitality andLeisure for DHR Global.
Welcome, David.
David Mansbach (00:19):
Hi, great to be here with you, LAN.
Lan Elliott (00:21):
Wonderful to have you here, and I've had the
pleasure to know you for manyyears.
I almost feel like we've come upin the industry together over, I
won't say how many years, butI'm wondering if you could share
some of the inflection points ofyour successful career.
'cause it's been incredible, butit would be great to understand
(00:43):
what were some of the pivotpoints that were really
instrumental and if there's afactor or factors that you.
Think were key to your success.
David Mansbach (00:53):
Great.
Yeah, I'll walk you through itand hit some inflection points.
Counting degree.
Graduated in 1991.
Looking for the job for a job inNew York City.
Had no clue.
And by pure luck, and againyou'll see the theme here.
It's all mentorship, greatadvice and luck.
Secured my first job inaccounting.
It just happened to be in ahotel.
(01:15):
That hotel happened to be one ofthe best hotels in the country,
in the world, being the PlazaHotel in New York.
So showed up my first day afterinterviewing with the CFO of the
hotel, Patrick O'Malley.
I was in 1991, I'll never forgetit, and did my thing.
Four weeks in, he came over tome, put his hand on my back.
(01:35):
He said, Dave, you lookmiserable.
I'm like, what do you mean I'mjust doing my thing?
He goes you are not the guy Iinterviewed you.
You're quiet, you look unhappy.
And he's what's going on?
And I'm stumbling.
I don't know, I just, I'm in myfirst job in my first month.
He said, what do you wanna do?
And I said, I wanna do whatthose people are doing.
(01:56):
And I pointed to the other sideof the office.
There were 15 people in salesand marketing and conference
services.
And they're talking this runningaround the hotel and.
He goes, come with me.
And he introduced me to Tom Ano,who actually still is in the
business, and is my firstmentor.
And that ties into the firstinflection point about three
(02:19):
years into an incredible eightyear journey there.
I literally can write a book onthe experiences, being customer
facing dealing with.
Every celebrity, everydignitary.
It was just such a cool place.
And three years in, I rememberthe numbers.
I was making$22,000 a year.
(02:40):
I'm dating myself here and I gota job offer for$26,000 a year.
That's big numbers.
Big numbers.
So I went into Tom and I said,Tom, listen I'm gonna move on.
I no thought, didn't callanybody, had no clue.
Just went in and he goes, sitdown.
So I sit down, he goes, twothings.
He goes, you're not goinganywhere and I'm gonna give you
(03:02):
the money you need to stay here.
Okay?
He goes, but this is the lasttime you're gonna do this.
He goes, I'm here for you togive you career advice.
He goes, you're not gonna behere forever.
But when the time's right, we'regonna make this decision
together.
And I said, okay.
I said, oh my God, I'm able tostay here, continue to do what
(03:22):
I'm doing, which I loved.
And had another five yearsthere.
Funny enough the hotel I wasgonna go to he said, you're
gonna make a wrong decision ifyou go there.
And he said, if so that, thathotel basically changed
ownership two years after.
So first inflection point is youneed a mentor.
I am so lucky.
(03:44):
It literally could be that Iwould not be in this industry if
it wasn't for Tom.
Went on, did some great thingsat the right time.
I said to Tom, listen,operations is not for me.
I love this business.
What can I do?
We talked through, he said,there's this firm out on Long
Island called HBS.
Give them the call.
They do consulting.
(04:04):
I'm like consulting.
Cool.
I had no idea what consultingis.
Sent the letter to SteveRushmore.
Steve quickly introduced me tomy partner of 20 years.
Keith Capin met with Keith andhe said, you wanna do executive
search?
And I said, sure.
I have no clue what executivesearch is, but I'll do executive
(04:25):
search.
I learned the business and itreally leads to inflection point
number two.
I remember in the first weekthere I came in, I thought I
knew everything about the hotelindustry.
And I'm sitting down withHBSers.
People that really know thebusiness, they're talking in
terms like RevPAR and segmentclass and asset management.
(04:50):
I had no clue.
I thought I knew everything.
I knew nothing.
I didn't know what an assetmanager was.
I said, I gotta learn thisstuff.
And fortunately through thepeople I worked with I just
became a sponge and learned thebusiness.
But it really.
Made me understand that if I'mgonna do something, I think it's
critical to become specialized.
(05:12):
And I really, from that pointon, said I'm gonna really take
ownership of the hotel industryand the restaurant industry as
well.
I do a lot of work in therestaurant industry and, I just
became, I just learned I wasaround some really smart people.
Any question people were thereto mentor people that were
younger than me, people thatwere o older than me.
(05:34):
And that was key to reallylaunch me into being a true
professional in the world ofexecutive search.
Now I think I'm in.
I call it the third quarter ofmy career I have the ability to
work with all the people I grewup with in the industry like
yourself.
Everybody's in leadership roles.
(05:55):
I now do know what I'm talkingabout, thank God.
And just having a blast and thatthe, that's the next inflection
point.
It's.
Since I was at HBS, I'velaunched my own search firm,
I've been involved in this worldand doing it, and you really
need to have the ability to makesure work and pleasure collide.
(06:20):
They have to collide.
It's just there's so much thatgoes into doing anything right,
and the ability to have themcollide is just.
It's important, but it's thebest thing ever.
And that's where I'm at rightnow.
I'm in Q3 of my, I would saycareer, if you will.
I don't know that fourthinflection point yet.
(06:41):
We shall see.
But I think I know what it is,but I'm just I'm running, I'm
working in a great industry andthat really covers the journey
in some, I think, key points.
Again, it was all aroundmentorship.
Great advice and just dumb luck.
Think about it.
My first job just happened to bein a hotel, and that hotel was a
(07:02):
Plaza Hotel.
Lan Elliott (07:04):
I'm glad that your first accounting job was in the
hospitality industry, and evenif it was luck.
I do see a theme that oncepeople discover hospitality,
they think this is actually agreat industry to be in.
So I love that theme.
I also love that your mentor wasvery clear with you that we're
(07:24):
going to make these decisionstogether.
I'm here for you.
You don't always get someonewho's going to come right out
and tell you in so many wordsthat they're basically your
mentor.
And I think also your opennessto different.
Roles and trying differentthings.
But I particularly loved thepiece where he noticed that you
(07:45):
didn't have joy in youraccounting role and you didn't
bring that and it was not thespark he knew that you had and
that he was so supportive andhelping you find that.
So I think it's so important tofind that thing that is your
thing.
David Mansbach (08:00):
Yes, I agree a hundred percent.
Lan Elliott (08:04):
Along your journey through the various quarters,
where do you seek resources orguidance in terms of leadership
skills, professional skills?
Do you have a favoriteleadership resource that.
You could share with ouraudience?
David Mansbach (08:22):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I think it's twofold.
I think it's resources andnetwork network.
I know we're gonna talk aboutextensively through this because
one, it's been a key theme in mycareer, but in listening to a
lot of the other people you'veinterviewed, it's a key theme
for them as well.
In terms of resources.
I'm fortunate, I just love toabsorb information.
(08:43):
And in information, call it 2.0right now, it's not just reading
books, it's podcasts, it'sreading books it's everything.
And what I love, I, I think andis key in dealing with C-Suite
executives and strategy isbiographies.
I think biographies are theclosest thing.
To a time machine that exists.
(09:03):
It's so cool and eerie when yougo back and read biographies
about things that have happened50 a hundred years ago and how
the same things are happening inthe same way today.
One one, the biography I'mreading right now is on Robert
Moses.
I'm a Long Islander in New York.
He really built the entireinfrastructure.
So everything from the politicsto what he's done to literally
(09:24):
driving the roads that he'sbuilt it, it's just the coolest
thing.
So biographies in leadership in,in, in just all different type,
diverse is key.
Just different types of people.
Steve Jobs was a great one.
Forged In Crisis, which talksabout leaders like Abraham
Lincoln and Erna, Shackletonfacing adversity.
(09:45):
It's all really good stuff.
Podcasts again, you could learnI think these days as much from
an expert in the medical field.
And how to apply it to yourbusiness as you can from a
leader in, in, in our business.
And while some may think this isweird, boring, and crazy what's
made me very powerful in mythinking is the ability to
(10:08):
listen to investor callsquarterly investor calls,
reading annual reports.
I'm a compensation nerd.
I have to, reading thecompensation Committee,
committee reports.
So I spend a lot of time on thepublic companies, both in the
hotel and the restaurant space.
Digging into that information.
It really whether you're arecruiter in the business, it
(10:30):
could make super, super smart.
So that's resources.
Lan Elliott (10:33):
Those are really great ones.
And the Steve Job biography, hasbeen mentioned a few times.
I understand it's very big.
But it's on my to-do list to, toread that at some point you had
touched on the importance ofdeveloping a network as being
one of the factors in yoursuccess.
And obviously with hospitality,people staying within the
(10:55):
industry for a long time, youhave the chance to see those
relationships evolve and grow.
But for a lot of people, thisidea of networking sounds scary.
The first thought I think a lotof people get is walking into
that ballroom at a cocktailparty with 200 people.
You don't know.
Yeah.
But it encompasses a lot morethan just, that moment in time.
(11:18):
I'm curious how you've developedyour network, which.
Obviously super important as anexecutive recruiter, how do you
develop it in a way that'snatural for you?
David Mansbach (11:28):
Yeah, this is probably my favorite topic and I
love counseling students cominginto the industry.
It's one of my favorite thingsto do, and it's really as, as
important at the C-suite to havea network as well.
When I started and again I havean interesting lens.
'cause in professional services,in order to get business, you
need to build a network.
And when I started, I would justgo and say, okay, I want to do
(11:51):
business with Company X, so I'mgonna reach out to the decision
makers at Company X and try toget their business.
And I failed miserably.
Literally my hit ratio wasprobably close to 0%.
And at that time I startedrealizing that mentors could be
helpful.
So I did go to some people andreally what it came back to as.
(12:16):
In order to build a network, thefoundation is you have to
identify people that you like,that you enjoy being with, and
most importantly, people thatyou sincerely want to help.
It has to start with helpingother people.
If you're going and you'relooking for something, it's very
rare that you're going to getthat until you develop
(12:39):
relationships and help peopleout.
And fortunately, I love helpingpeople out.
I love giving advice.
So with that, that shift andthat tweak that's where it just
beca, it didn't change overnightfor me, but till this day I have
this concept where I have.
I call it my Power one 50.
These are people that arefriends, that are clients that
(13:03):
are candidates I place that arein my personal network, through
family where I could just pickup the phone and call them
anytime.
And I know they will call andhelp me as well, and it's led
to.
Something v it's very fulfillingboth personally and
professionally.
(13:24):
And the bonus is these peoplebecome your personal board of
advisors.
So you have the ability to getreal professional advice from
someone that really knows whatthey're talking about.
I talked about beingspecialized.
I could go super specialize.
I haven't shared this in apublic forum.
But when the pandemic hit I.
(13:46):
Everybody in the hotel space waslike, wow what's the world gonna
look like?
And I took advantage of themassive slowdown and wanted to
hit on something that I alwayswanted to do, which is enter
into the restaurant business.
More specifically, I always, Iworked with a lot of
entrepreneurial restaurantfranchisees.
(14:09):
And I said, why not do that?
And two of my friends, one,again, very a real estate expert
and the other one a corporateattorney.
They were friends, they were inthe same situation.
We said we're gonna go on ajourney and try to do this.
And what did I do?
I just simply picked up thephone and called three CEOs that
(14:30):
are in my power, one 50 in mynetwork that know 50 times more
than me.
In the restaurant space.
And I said, if you were to dothis, what are the two, three
brands you would call?
And they all said, forget aboutthree brands.
There's one brand, and that'sJersey Mike's.
And we all know Jersey Mike's.
(14:51):
And, again, a lot of luck.
We got into the system and we'vebeen in the system for four
years.
I have a wonderful operatingpartner that runs the business
so I can focus in on this'causethis is what I really love.
But it, it just goes back toleveraging people that are just
much smarter than you.
And if you take the approachthat you want to help them, it's
(15:14):
a win, win on so many levels.
Lan Elliott (15:19):
That's an incredible story.
Could you dig a little bitdeeper into how you're helping
other people?
Because obviously you're askingthem for help.
So how do you make it thatyou're helping other people?
Is it being genuinely interestedand offering to help?
David Mansbach (15:36):
First it's really understanding and it's
not a coincidence that it, it'scalled Power one 50.
It's impossible to have a power1000.
There's just been studies thatcommunities going back hundreds,
200, 300 years, thousands ofyears, communities were always
designed around 130 to 200people because that's when you
really know each personindividually.
(15:58):
So it starts with, really justknowing like Land Elliot is in
my Power one 50.
I know what interests youpersonally, professionally, and
if I read an article that I knowwould be of interest to you.
I'm gonna send it to you.
I love when someone calls andsays, I need advice on this.
Usually people are calling mewhen it comes to, do you know a
(16:21):
company culture?
Do you know this CEO that I'mgonna go work for?
What are your thoughts aroundcompensation?
So it's really it's a funjourney and it's really helping
people that way.
Yeah.
Lan Elliott (16:34):
And it's really getting to know people as
individuals and building thatrelationship, helping each
other.
And then when you have that ask,you already have a relationship
that you can lean on when you'relooking for something.
Absolutely.
And it's
David Mansbach (16:45):
so critical.
It really is critical, but it'sgotta come from a place where
you really wanna help the personand the person really wants to
help you.
I've had many individuals overmy career funnel in and out of
my power one 50.
Not just for no other reasonthan, things change.
They may move international.
It's just whatever it is.
(17:06):
There's been some people that,quite honestly, I've helped and
when I've asked for help inreturn, it wasn't there.
Life's too short.
But I'm personally good withhaving 150 trusted advisors at
any point in time.
Lan Elliott (17:19):
I love that you had touched on during the pandemic,
you started franchising Jersey,Mike.
Restaurants and.
Obviously the pandemic haschanged a lot in our industry.
One of the trends we've seen inhospitality downturns is, and
(17:40):
I'll speak more specifically tothe real estate area, which is
the area that I know, but Ithink it translates to other
areas of the industry, is we letthe junior team members go.
They're usually the analysts orthe people early in their
careers go, and then theindustry always turns around and
about three years later.
(18:00):
You're looking for junior peoplewho have two to three years of
experience, which is what thosepeople would've had if you
would've kept them around atthat point in time.
And I'm curious what you thinkabout this and what do you tell
clients who come to you?
And I know you work mostly atthe executive level, but in
general who are looking forpeople and we have this cycle of
(18:22):
letting people go and then we'relooking for.
Those people and the industryhas made them into unicorns if
they're still around.
David Mansbach (18:30):
Yeah.
I'll speak to the hotelindustry, and a lot of this is
in the restaurant space as well.
You look at the two biggestshocks, which were the 2000
eight, nine recession, and ofcourse the global pandemic, and
then there's some mini shockslike nine 11 and the tech bust
and so forth.
The first fault for the hotelindustry is what you've just
(18:51):
said.
It's around human capital andright sizing for a downturn.
Again, I'm empathetic.
I know what it takes to run abusiness successfully, and I
know how companies weremassively hit.
And I also know while they laidoff people they spent a lot of
time taking care of thosepeople, especially, which, which
speaks to the specialness of ourspace.
(19:13):
Most companies in otherindustries would just lay off in
this industry.
I had one client, fromhousekeeper up, it was, we wanna
make sure they have food.
We wanna make sure theirfamilies are healthy.
But to your point, and it's notjust entry level there's a move
to reduce talent and it's atwofold problem.
(19:33):
One the hotel industry at largetill this day, I think still
needs to do a better job inbecoming.
The segment, the employer ofchoice.
And it's just not, I know, it'sa podcast in itself and I think
there's a lot of opportunity andthere's some good, smart people
out there that are spending alot of time making this the
(19:57):
employer of choice.
But these high performersthey're gonna pivot.
They're gonna hustle.
And whether they're starting attheir career, their mid-career
at the C-suite they're gonna,they're gonna do things.
And we're losing a lot of peoplebecause the skillset is
transferable to otherindustries.
So now we're here again, I thinkin a place.
(20:21):
Where succession planning at thetop of the org chart is a
problem.
And finding entry level peoplefor this industry.
And I think everybody, I thinkcompanies, recruiters, colleges,
all have an obligation that arespecialized in this space to
really make this an employer ofchoice.
(20:42):
But with that said for peoplelistening to this podcast it's
creating a lot of opportunityfor people that are coming into
this industry because a lot ofthese organizations, whether
it's a hotel, a private equitygroup a publicly traded reit,
they are running lean and mean,and it's giving people that are
(21:02):
entering the business theopportunity to do a lot more.
Early on just because there'snot enough infrastructure of
talent internally.
So the chaos is going to createopportunity, but it's here right
now and it's a problem.
Yeah.
Lan Elliott (21:21):
I'm curious, you present a lot of candidates to
your clients as potential hires.
What makes a candidate standout?
If you had to pick one thingthat you wish.
Candidates.
David Mansbach (21:35):
Yeah, that's, yeah.
I would say skillset isimportant, but it's not the most
important thing.
I think there are certaintraits, I call it the critical
three.
Okay.
That every candidate, again,whether it's entry level and
some C-suite executives stillneed to work on this.
And it's empathy, resilience.
(21:56):
Self-awareness and humility inthere as well.
And I think that the bettercompanies that are really
concerned, the companies thatare really concerned about their
culture and really importingtalent in, and now having to pay
more for talent, they're reallypaying attention to this
skillset.
(22:17):
It's gonna it's not going away.
Again, maybe we'll touch on ai.
But if you look at an analyst.
Within two, three years, that'sgonna be a lot of AI driven and
that's gonna create otherproblems because if you don't
get the ability to live andbreathe as an analyst, how do
you go into asset management oracquisitions?
But to me, and to answer yourquestion, it starts with
(22:39):
personality traits and thosetraits and people are really
looking closely.
I spend a lot of time through myinterviews really screening out
for personality traits.
Core skillset, pastaccomplishments are very
important.
And but that, that, that's whatI say is the most important.
Lan Elliott (22:59):
Empathy is probably not something that would be at
the top of anyone's.
List, I'd say 10, 15 years ago.
So that is definitely a trend.
Let's talk a little bit aboutAI, because you had mentioned it
and there was a recent study byUnia HR where they went in and
tested three popular AI toolsfor screening resumes.
(23:22):
And it was a bit shockingbecause those three tools only
agreed on 14% of the resumes.
I
David Mansbach (23:29):
had one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And,
Lan Elliott (23:31):
and that's a bit scary, right?
So thoughts on, yeah,
David Mansbach (23:33):
no, I know where you're going with this and
there's a little irony in thiswhole situation.
And I was I had lunch with asenior very senior HR executive
within our industry this week,earlier this week.
And he is not using AI yet.
When it comes to screening Ithink what's happening,
especially at the largercompanies, is internal
(23:54):
recruiters, and I'm even seeingthis in the world of executive
search as well.
They're placing too muchemphasis on ai.
And what's happening is becauseat a point in time it's gonna be
extremely powerful, but rightnow the algorithms.
Are, we're losing.
Companies are losing out onreally good people because
(24:18):
they're seeing a lot of resumesand they're being screened out
by the algorithms.
And it's a dangerous thing.
'cause now what's happening, asI said before, I mentor a lot of
students, people coming in, andit's scary.
Some of these, these individualsare coming to me and they're
saying, Dave, what are the keywords I should have in my
resume?
(24:39):
So you have a reactive play inthat people are gaming their
resumes, and the irony then isit creates more work for the
internal recruiters.
So again, I am confident at apoint in time AI is gonna play a
very powerful role in screening,but right now it it's creating a
(25:02):
lot of.
A lot of chaos for internalrecruiters and not doing
companies justice.
So I would encourage internalrecruiters strategists that are
thinking about human capital inany space to really get smart on
AI and understand where they'reas much missing out as much on
(25:23):
the other side where they thinkthere's gonna be efficiencies.
Lan Elliott (25:26):
Yeah I know when I've tried to hire, for example,
junior people and the internalrecruiter would come to me with,
these are all the people, and Ithought, there's gotta be more.
And she goes, there, there aremore.
But I screened them out and Isaid, I wanna see them all
David Mansbach (25:41):
right.
Lan Elliott (25:41):
And the person we ended up hiring was in that pile
that she hadn't presented to me.
So I think.
Knowing what you're looking forand taking the time.
It's such an important piece ofadding someone to your team.
Not just skills like you said,but having the same values, the
same cultural views, in terms ofwhat's important, what you're
(26:04):
looking for that will make yourteam cohesive.
I wanted to talk aboutnegotiating offer letters, and I
spent most of my careernegotiating contracts on behalf
of my company, but I'm still notvery good at negotiating, offer
letters for myself and.
It's just something that'suncomfortable because you wanna
join the company, you're excitedto join the company.
(26:26):
Now you think, how hard do Iactually wanna negotiate this
and maybe burn some bridgesbefore I've even walked in the
door on my first day?
What advice do you have forpeople who wanna do the best job
negotiating their offer letter,but don't wanna rub people the
wrong way?
David Mansbach (26:45):
Yeah I think it's.
It is an interesting topic.
It's a sensitive topic.
I have a whole team ofrecruiters within this
organization, and I went throughit myself.
In talking with candidates it'sjust always becomes an
uncomfortable situation, talkingabout compensation and it's
(27:06):
just, it just shouldn't be astaboo as it is.
The two things that aresurprising to me is if people
are leveraging their networks.
Recruiters love to help.
We love to give free advice.
Okay.
And it's surprising we do notget that many calls.
From our friends in theindustry, candidates, we built
(27:26):
relationships with C-Suite anddown saying, Hey, what are the
trends, you are seeing in termsof compensation?
What are some ideas based onthis?
And definitely as we go down theorg chart, we don't see this.
And I think everybody quicklygoes to one piece of the
compensation mix, which is basesalary, and it's a mix for a
(27:50):
reason.
It's base salary.
It's bonus, there's potentiallong-term opportunity.
There's the intrinsic careerprogression and everybody gets
caught in that base salarynumber.
And on top of that, now back tothe conversation about AI is I
know the numbers and I haveclients and candidates running
(28:13):
numbers off of AI that aremassively.
Inconsistent with what the realnumbers are out there.
So around this whole con thiswhole conversation, the better
executive recruiters that arerepresenting clients will do a
good job serving as a liaisonbetween the candidate and the
(28:34):
client to help where it's awin-win for everybody and it's
transparent conversation.
The better senior level HRexecs.
They're calling recruiters andsaying, what are you seeing out
there and what are the trends?
But there are a lot of people inthat third bucket that are just
(28:54):
going in and they're justforget.
I wouldn't even use the termnegotiation.
They're not, they're just stuckon base salary, where they're
at, what they think the marketis, and they start there.
And I think it's just becomesmarter.
Like I said I'm not, I knoweverybody's not gonna read the
(29:14):
compensation philosophy Lee of acomp publicly traded company
that they're considering injoining.
But you could certainly learn alot about do they pay, is they
pay for performance?
Do they pay a high base salariesand just take a more thoughtful,
longer term approach tonegotiation.
Because it's just bigger thanone piece of the compensation
(29:38):
mix where everybody just spendstoo much emphasis on, but lever
leverage people.
There's a lot of pe recruiterswant to help.
I'm sure people that are inyour, on your side of the
business that are younger couldcall you and I know you would
want to help.
So it's just get moreinformation, get smarter about
it.
Lan Elliott (29:57):
Yeah, leverage your network, ask for advice back
David Mansbach (30:00):
to the network.
Lan Elliott (30:01):
Yes.
I do think people are sometimesn nervous and it's a bit
vulnerable to ask for advice,but I think you can't do a good
job for yourself if you don'thave the right information.
David Mansbach (30:13):
It's a very, it's a very interesting it's a
very sensitive topic.
You'll be out to dinner withfriends and you could talk about
all your health issues.
And unfortunately, I'm gettingto the point where the, that's
starting to be the topic ofconversation, but no one talks
about s salary or this or that.
It's just, it's always been aninteresting, it's just been a
(30:34):
very interesting topic, butthere are some good resources
out there and it's usually inpeople that are experts in that
area.
Lan Elliott (30:42):
I love that, and I love the idea of.
You developing a network ofrecruiters that you help out
when they have requests, butthen they can also be a great
resource for you when you'renegotiating offer letter to help
give you some advice and somecontext.
So
David Mansbach (30:58):
again I am saying this as one of many
executive recruiters out there,I just, I had nothing to do with
the search.
I had a account call me.
And I helped him negotiate hisentire package and he said,
thank you so much.
This was helpful.
I'm getting nothing from it.
And it was so rewarding and itwas a win because he's taken the
(31:22):
opportunity, he's moving hisfamily.
It's a big move.
And I think everybody, includingthe group that he was
negotiating with, appreciatedthe thoughtfulness and the short
and long-term thinking.
Around the totality of thepackage.
Lan Elliott (31:37):
I love that.
I'm calling you next time if Iget a job.
Anytime.
David Mansbach (31:40):
Anytime.
Lan Elliott (31:42):
We are coming up on the end of our discussion, but I
had two last questions for you.
The first one is probably myfavorite question that I ask all
our guest advisors, which is,what advice would you give to
your younger self, that22-year-old self?
What would you tell him?
David Mansbach (32:05):
I would say two things.
I would say one celebrate yoursuccesses both personally and
professionally.
Anybody who is motivated andserious about their career
typically achieves something andmoves right onto the next thing.
And I'll never forget it was, Iwas prob it was about 15 years
(32:26):
ago.
And it was towards Christmas andtwo different candidates sent me
beautiful, wine and candy andall this stuff with notes and I
was away on business and mydaughter read it and it was,
thank you so much.
My family, so appreciative,we're settled in this, and this.
(32:46):
And she came to me and I thinkat the time she was like.
12 years old, she's dad, this isreally important.
This is cool.
And I'm like I, she had to makeme realize that it's wow, I
actually just moved a family offive.
And on top of that this personhas, has a change in career and
(33:07):
so forth.
And ever since then, what I did.
And I think I read this in abook, actually, this is not an
idea I came up with because Ireally don't come up with ideas.
I just read ideas is throughoutthe year, I just wrote down in
an Excel sheet all the things,small successes, big successes.
You go back to that list at theend of the year, it's pretty
powerful.
(33:27):
You really don't realize whatyou do.
And everybody's just forwardthinking.
And you really.
Should celebrate your success.
I think the other thing ispeople, and this is people
starting off in their career andgoing back to my 22 year self,
you have to be patient, you haveto be the career progression.
It's not linear.
(33:48):
It's not oh, every year you seea little bit of an increase,
especially in the world ofprofessional services.
And I'm going on year, I think25 now.
And it's you have to understandthat.
It's more compound than linearand you just have to be patient
because I see it in some of theyounger people.
They get frustrated too earlyand they react too severely.
(34:12):
IE leave an industry, leave acompetency where they just need
to give it a little bit moretime.
So those would be the two thingsthat really, stand out.
Lan Elliott (34:22):
Thank you.
Great advice.
And.
Our last question.
You have offered so much amazingadvice during our discussion and
keeping in mind that itspersonal stories.
Mission is around empoweringpersonal success.
Do you have one final nugget ofadvice for our audience who are
(34:44):
looking to advance their career?
David Mansbach (34:47):
I would go back to the, to two things we've
discussed.
I would say it's those criticalthree, those personality traits
the empathy the emotionalintelligence, and there's
subsets like even gut thinking.
Personality traits are gonna beso key moving forward because
skillset wallow will always beimportant.
AI is gonna be playing a verydifferent role in not just the
(35:10):
hotel industry, but everyindustry.
So really constantly work onyourself, especially around the
humility and self-awareness.
It's very important.
And then the other piece is thenetwork.
Everybody, that, that's whatevens the playing field for
everybody.
Keep your network diverse.
And really build a network.
(35:32):
There's no reason whether you're22 or 55, you could always
continue to be meeting people,interesting people that could
help advance as you change, asevolve as an I person.
So those would be my two things,Lynn.
Lan Elliott (35:48):
Amazing.
Thank you so much, David.
I really enjoyed ourconversation and really grateful
for you to come on and shareyour thoughts and for our
audience, if you've enjoyed thisinterview with Dave, I hope you
will go to our website, it'spersonal stories.com for many
more hospitality industry leaderinterviews.
(36:11):
Thank you.
Thanks Dave.
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