Lukasz shares insights on his extensive international career, leadership lessons, relationship building, and balancing professional and personal life through the Japanese concept of Ikigai.
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Dorothy Dowling (00:06):
Greetings.
I am Dorothy Dowling.
Welcome to its Personal Stories,a hospitality podcast dedicated
to highlighting the inspiringjourneys of leaders in the
hospitality industry.
We are a nonprofit organizationfocused on empowering personal
success.
Today I am delighted to welcomeLucas Dabrowski, senior Vice
President, global SupplierRelations at HRS Lucas.
(00:28):
It's truly an honor to have youwith us today.
Lukasz Dabrowski (00:31):
Dorothy, thank you for having me.
The honor is mine.
I consider this interview one ofthe highlights and peaks of my
career so far.
So really appreciate the invite.
Thank you.
Dorothy Dowling (00:42):
Wow, that's a wonderful compliment to all of
us.
Thank you.
Our conversations are all aboutempowering personal success or
the lived experience, lessonsand wisdom of extraordinary
leaders like yourself.
So we are very much lookingforward to your wisdom today.
Lukasz Dabrowski (00:57):
I I hope I live long enough to live up to
half of those complimentsthough.
Dorothy Dowling (01:03):
Okay.
You're too guide.
All right.
Maybe let's get right to itbecause your career is
extraordinarily impressive.
You have spanned continencecompanies and challenges
throughout your career.
I'm wondering if you can walk usthrough your career journey and
how intentional the careermapping was that really shaped
the opportunities that youchoose, chose to pursue.
Lukasz Dabrowski (01:23):
I'll I'll try to wrap it up in the next four
hours.
So lemme start this.
Okay.
Only kidding.
I I was attracted to step intothe let's say professional world
quite early in my life.
Being a, an introvert teenager Idecided I had to, break that
barrier between me and otherpeople in terms of
(01:45):
communicating, public speaking,et cetera, et cetera.
Decided to throw myself into thedeep waters and and became a
tour guide at the age of 17.
Born and raised in Warsaw,Poland.
This was my sort of initialrealm and then extended into
some European countries.
I was active in, in the uk inWestern Europe, in France as
well.
Some years into it, I I decidedI I need to stay put for a
(02:07):
little longer and I joined oneof the leading global chains in
1997 that was married,international, went through all
of the ranks and started reallylow made it into sales and
marketing.
And from then on expanded intomultiple different countries.
So went from Poland all the waythrough to uk, Greece France
(02:31):
done multiple projects in Russiaand the us.
And yeah, got extremelyattracted to exploring
international territories andcultures.
I was lucky to, continue thatwith my next employer.
It's HRS celebrated my 15thanniversary quite recently.
Congratulations.
(02:51):
Thank you.
And and the cool thing about it,none of those 15 years felt
alike or the same.
They were also full ofexcitement and international
travel.
Five years into the job, I Iwent into my first global role
operating out of Germany, but.
Literally living on an airplane.
And since then, since 2014,late, I, I do circle the world
(03:14):
anywhere from five up to 15times each year.
I I then moved from Germany toJapan which was my official Asia
Pacific residence.
Tokyo, but spent most of my timein China, Southeast Asia, India.
Australia.
So really covered the the entireregion all the way up until
(03:36):
Covid came out to to greet us onthat side of the world a little
earlier than in the west.
I took that opportunity as asilver lining, relocated back to
Europe, and I'm still performingmy global supplier relations
duties, but based out of southof Europe.
Out of priest these days.
Dorothy Dowling (03:55):
I want, I'm wondering if we could explore a
little bit more around just theleadership roles, and you have
taken on some really complexassignments in terms of building
the HRS brand and therelationships around the world.
I'm wondering if you could helpour audience understand what
drew you to these opportunitiesand how taking on all of these
really significant global rolesreally shaped you personally and
(04:18):
professionally.
I.
Lukasz Dabrowski (04:20):
So I, I've always been a curious person and
I think that's, that reallyhelps.
Growing up in Socialist Polandleaves you hungry for
experiencing, anything outsideof the Iron Curtain.
I was doing a lot of reading andthe opportunity to travel was
always a dream of mine.
As simple as it is, that was mymotivation.
That was my, my main reason forpursuing international
(04:42):
opportunities.
And I have to say it's alsoabout, very quickly into it,
realizing that with travel comesa very unique type of learning
that is based on culturalexperiences, that is based on
different observations.
In terms of how markets stick,how different businesses operate
(05:04):
in those markets, and I foundthat absolutely fascinating.
And one of those, I thinkunderlying common denominators
was always yes, getting throughthe intercultural bit.
So really understanding the theway that locals think and, and
the way they engage in business.
That's that's definitelysomething that impacted my my
(05:26):
business acumen a lot.
I even call it internationalimagination.
I consider it one of the prettysignificant qualities in
business these days.
Yeah, that's that's probably themain reason.
Dorothy Dowling (05:40):
If I may, Lucas, you have some of the
rules and just theresponsibilities that you took
on, particularly driving growthin China and you were really
blazing new trails.
I'm just wondering if you cantalk a little bit more about
some of those culturallearnings.
'cause I agree with you, whenyou travel the world, I think
you get a very differentperspective.
But when you have to developbusiness in a brand new
(06:02):
territory for a company, withthe kind of leadership role you
had and you had to staff andbuild the partner relations and
really figure out the go-tomarket strategies in many
different territories around theworld.
I'm just wondering if there'sany wisdom from all of those
experiences that you could sharewith our audience.
Lukasz Dabrowski (06:21):
Yeah.
I would say that the number onewould always be stay humble,
keep your eyes and ears open,and really try to invest in
understanding I.
Your surroundings, both in termsof culture and the business.
Never assume anything aboutthat.
Whatever great business modelyou might be operating that
(06:42):
works fantastically well in, Idon't know, Western Europe or in
North America, will instantly besuccessful in the other areas of
the world in Latin America, AsiaPacific, in Africa.
That is something that thatshould never be assumed.
And you you actually have towith the value proposition that
(07:02):
you operate with, you have toact as a I like the comparison
of a key maker, right?
So you have the same materialsthat these are the element of
the value proposition that youcarry.
But but you have to cut the keyto fit the lock to a particular
market.
It is the same elements of thevalue proposition, but they
might be played and orchestratedin a different fashion to
(07:25):
achieve success in a newterritory.
And that's based on a huge setof circumstances.
A handshake in north Americadoesn't equal a handshake and
the smile in Japan or in China.
So yeah, just when you think youmight be getting ahead, next
morning might bring a slightdisappointment.
(07:46):
Yeah, and I think that's allbeautiful.
That's that's just part of ofthe diversity of of our planet.
Dorothy Dowling (07:52):
I really love the way that you've thought
about it as being a key andunlocking the value proposition
in a different way and beingable to nuance how that door
might open.
And I also really love themessage about being humble.
I.
Lucas.
'cause I do think that is areally important thing when you
go into another country is tonot to assume that the way that
(08:12):
you think is the way that othersmay think and the way you might
attack a problem is the way thatthey may approach problem
solving.
I, I'm wondering if we couldtalk a little bit more about
that because given some of theterritories that you've had to
really unlock some of that valueproposition and really think
about problem solving in some ofthose territories.
(08:33):
Is there an approach that youused in terms of breaking down
some of those complex challengesand figuring out how to solve
the problem in those differentterritories around the world?
Lukasz Dabrowski (08:44):
So I definitely, yes I was growing up
as a big fan of Stephen Covey,at the Seven Habits.
So Seek First who understandsthem to be understood would be
the number one rule to apply.
And and there's really nothingwrong with, staying silent and
just listening and observing inthe first meetings that you go
(09:05):
to and establishing yourself ina new territory, in a new
market.
It's actually a, not just a signof that you are open to take in
this, new knowledge andexperience, but it's also a
major sign of respect that Ithink especially when it comes
to the cultures outside of theWestern Hemisphere, makes a huge
difference.
So that would be number one.
(09:28):
Then I would always question anyproblem that's that I encounter.
And also the opportunities thatI encounter with the five why's.
So it really is about getting tothe bottom of the root cause of
what is the issue, what is thechallenge, what is the problem?
But also, why do we see certainthings as opportunities?
(09:50):
Why do we see these concreteelements as as successful, as
valuable elements of theproposition that we bring to the
table.
And.
It's not about assuming andsimple taking it for granted,
this is where most people thinkthat they've won.
No.
It's also about understandingexactly why, what is that thing
that triggers a buying decisionfor instance.
(10:13):
So over time, I think the theone reflection that grew on me
and one of the elements ofproblem solving that that I,
incorporated in my in mymethodology is is data.
So yeah, I I would not make asingle call without having all
the data that is relevant tomaking a decision in front of me
(10:34):
that came with experience andage
Dorothy Dowling (10:38):
and some of the technology that has empowered
some of that information to usin different ways as well.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm wondering if we could talk alittle bit about some of the
people that have, influencedyour career, the mentors, the
champions, allies that havehelped you grow and helped shape
your leadership.
(10:58):
I'm wondering if there's lessonslearned that you would offer to
the audience.
Lukasz Dabrowski (11:04):
Most definitely.
I have to say, I looking back, Iknow I was blessed.
I was truly lucky.
I.
To to come across inspirationalleaders mentors allies and
partners, that, that helped megrow, that believed in me, that
respected me.
And and yeah, for whateverreason have chosen to to stay by
my side.
It is extremely important toextremely important to cherish
(11:27):
those, those relationships asthey are the additional evidence
or validation that every humanbeing needs in terms of proving
their worth, that they'reheading in the right direction.
The only additional thing that Ihave to say that I have to add
is Arthur Schopenhauer being myfavorite philosopher.
(11:47):
That I grew up reading lot of anAustrian gentleman was one of
his papers he wrote was aboutthat the majority of our
learnings in life, the majorityof what we know is based on
negative versus positive.
Most of us, we we like toquickly forget about those
negative examples that we see asin, oh, I'll never be that
(12:11):
person, or I will never act likethat while down the road.
And now looking back I candefinitely say that it is true.
Yes, there is definitely more ofthose examples and they're
extremely valuable when youactually acknowledge their.
Value properly.
So yeah, most of our learningscome from what we would normally
(12:34):
consider mistakes or failures orhardships.
All of that is far more commonthan success and happiness and
yeah they're to be valuedequally in my opinion.
Dorothy Dowling (12:49):
Yeah, I think for sure it is that growth
mindset that you're referencingLucas in terms of approaching
failures or things that didn'tquite work out the way we
would've hoped as I.
Really learning from those andbeing able to go back and do
that forensic kind of assessmentof what we might have done
differently and how that mighthave changed outcomes.
(13:10):
But I really do appreciate howhumble you are and the way you
think about that leadershipjourney.
And I also have great respectwhen you talk about how people
identified something in you thatmaybe you didn't necessarily see
yourself.
But I do think you've had anincredible career and you've
taken on.
Extraordinary challenges.
So I think there are many thatlook up to you in terms of just
(13:33):
the kind of ways that you haveembraced really difficult
assignments and have taken themon and have been so successful
in executing on all of thosethings.
I, I'm wondering if we can talkeven more about that because
when I look at the.
Way the business travel space inparticular is undergoing and
what I consider maybe thelargest sea change I have seen
(13:54):
in my career.
Particularly with AI and modernmodernization of business travel
re retailing.
I would love for you to sharewith the audience how you really
stay on top of all of, thechange management and your
learning and your ability to addso much value to your global
partners.
Lukasz Dabrowski (14:13):
Dorothy, first and foremost, thank you very
much for all the kind words andcompliments of course, from you.
It's means a lot to me, trustme.
I think, we go back many years,thank you for that.
Yes.
I think the again, back toStephen Covey's example,
sharpening the saw.
The last of the seven habits issomething that comes to mind in
terms of investment in personalgrowth.
(14:35):
And I think a lot of us tend toperceive personal growth as as a
certain process that is verydefined and locked in and maybe
even planned or orchestrateinside our Outlook calendars.
But but it to me it happens on adaily basis and.
Quite often, very seamlessly.
My perspective is the following.
I'm very lucky to be surroundedby pure innovation on a daily
(14:57):
basis.
The business that I that I workfor the colleagues that I work
with are industries, innovators,entrepreneurs, and disruptors.
And and that goes back to thepoint of the five whys.
And that goes back to,identifying opportunities and
pain points and addressing themwith a lot of effort and
conviction.
(15:18):
In that process, there is nosuch thing as a failure to be
honest.
There is either a win or alearning to be applied, and I
very much respect companycultures that have that built
into them.
So allowing.
For people of any rank in thecompany to actually try and and
(15:38):
if a mistake is made and thenthat mistake is considered a
valuable learning.
That's that learning element isthat learning aspect is also
something that is tremendouslyimportant to me.
I I feel accomplished at the endof the day when I have learned
something new, even if it's aminor detail, I.
(15:59):
But something that I didn't knowyesterday that drives me.
I I would probably die ofboredom in any other environment
that is maybe more like a Swisswatch in terms of predictability
of operations.
And and again, last but notleast, to the point of
sharpening the, so I think it'sit's extremely important to to
connect the the effort.
(16:19):
That we invest into growingpersonally with making sure that
we also have the time to tounwind, yeah, to regain energy,
to recharge, to go back to ourpower bank, whatever that might
be.
I I definitely appreciate thatpart a lot.
Being where I am.
Dorothy Dowling (16:37):
I think you've offered some really important
elements there because I dothink immersing yourself with
colleagues and that they may bewithin your company and
certainly within the industry,that really we all mentor each
other and I think we all offerlots of opportunities to grow
together.
And I think sometimes just thework you have done through the
industry engagement that youhave committed to has really
(17:01):
powered.
A lot of that learning for youLucas and as, as well as for
HRS.
So I always commend how activeyou are in the industry.
I think the other thing that themessage that you just talked
about is just that organicnature.
And I, I fundamentally believefor people that are in that sort
of marketing, distribution,sales, that you have to stay
(17:22):
engaged because that is, a lotof it just happens in the day to
day in terms of.
The opportunities that presentthemselves in our activities.
And I think the last message,which is something I have really
come to respect as I've gottenolder, is that recharging just
refreshes your capabilities interms of giving you some time to
take in what you might havelearned that you may not have.
(17:44):
Fully digested, but also justempowers your capabilities
because you need to be wellrested to really, I think,
optimize a lot of theopportunities that are before
you.
So I think those are reallyimportant messages to our
audience, and I thank you forsharing those.
Lukasz Dabrowski (18:01):
You're welcome.
Yes, indeed.
I couldn't agree more.
It's a major effort to tackleeven the basic understanding of
our very complex ecosystem.
And, it takes a lot.
I think it takes a lot of effortto get through it, to understand
it, to trace, the flow of valuesand and also understanding of
the business models traditionaland new innovative ones.
(18:23):
Follow the money flows reallyunderstand it from the inside
out.
That is far more demanding thanit used to be.
Some years ago, I.
Dorothy Dowling (18:32):
I, I love that element.
That's something I've alwaystried to keep in mind is to
follow the money flow because Ithink that really does tie back
to the value proposition, makingsure you're delivering.
On all the different individualsthat are looking to you to help
them in terms of their businessoutcomes.
That's a really importantmessage.
I wonder if we can talk a littlebit about you personally Lucas.
(18:53):
'cause I have always lovedwatching you on stage.
You bring so much energy,passion, you're really
exceptional.
And I would love to hear interms of you, you are often put
into high stakes situationswhere you have to perform.
I'm wondering if there's anywisdom that you could share with
our audience about how do youprepare and deliver in terms of,
(19:15):
not only the content, but justthe authe authenticity of your
messaging.
Lukasz Dabrowski (19:21):
Thank you again.
Do I I try my best.
I,
Dorothy Dowling (19:25):
you do an exceptional job you are one of
the best
Lukasz Dabrowski (19:28):
Long way to go, long way to go to match some
of the best industry speakers,including yourself.
It's it's nothing too complex,but I think it in terms of my
personal view and style andrecommendation at the same time
it's about a few basic items.
If you fail to prepare to fail.
Yes the research behind thetopic that I'm speaking on is
(19:49):
multidimensional and it'ssomething that needs to be done
very thoroughly.
I'd rather not speak on a topicthat I am not confident enough
about.
And obviously.
Doing that research.
It's also about, rehearsing themain points that you want to get
across.
So that's preparation.
Second would be making sure thatnext to owning your area of
(20:12):
expertise, you you also knowyour audience, that you
recognize who's out there, whydid they come, what is it that
they're looking for whatdifferent interests they
represent.
What is of interest to them?
What is, what makes themcurious?
Why is it that they sacrificetheir time and dedicate their
time to to sit in the audienceand watch someone speak or or
(20:34):
follow a panel?
It it is equally important alsoin, in the case of any
co-panelists and presentersmaking sure that again we
understand what is there.
Point of view shaped by where isit that they originate from,
what business they represent,what are the key objectives that
(20:56):
they want to attain throughparticipation.
And and with all thatpreparation I think, yeah I
would feel confident enough toappear on stage.
And that is, I would say, halfof the success.
The other half is interactive,the other half is just about
reading the audience.
(21:16):
You will have convinced, verywell, you'll have various
different types of audience.
Very passive, half asleep, old,young, multicultural, you name
it.
And just looking straight intotheir eyes and and confirming,
assuring that they actuallyfollow and that they agree or
(21:37):
disagree is is actually aphenomenal opportunity.
'cause you can make twists andturns in your presentation to
bond with the audience better toreach them in a far more
personal way than originallyintended.
Or to leave them with a fewsimple messages to go away with
if if they're really not thatactive.
(21:57):
That's also about making sure,yes the key highlights or the
key points that you wanna getacross are explicit,
Dorothy Dowling (22:03):
are,
Lukasz Dabrowski (22:04):
well heard.
Dorothy Dowling (22:05):
I think, that is very strategic in terms of
what you're talking about,because I do fundamentally
believe that.
Prepping in terms of content isreally important.
Then you had also talked aboutunderstanding the audience
because again, we are often putinto situations.
Where it is a very differentaudience, particularly when
we're traveling.
And then that third elementabout who you're engaging with
(22:27):
on stage to make sure you knowthem and can obviously work
together with those individuals.
But I do think that is the magicthat you bring Lucas in terms of
the way you engage with theaudience.
So that element of reading theaudience and then.
Trying to reach them becausethat's what I have seen you do
on stage in terms of activelyoutreaching to the audience and
(22:48):
trying to drive that level ofinterest.
So I think that's really goodadvice.
And then I also really love thatsummation that you're offering
at the end to just crystallizethe takeaways that the audience
may want to learn from you tomake sure they walk away with
really that understanding ofwhat the conversation really was
(23:08):
about.
So thank you for reallydissecting your approach in such
a significant way for us.
My
Lukasz Dabrowski (23:16):
pleasure.
If I, again, I don't considermyself an exceptional speaker,
but if I can do what I can do ona basic level as a former
introvert, teenager, drowning inbooks not leaving his room then
I'm pretty sure anybody watchingcan do better.
Dorothy Dowling (23:32):
I'm not sure about that Lucas, but I do think
it's the intentionality and I dothink that introverts can flex.
I am also an introvert.
And you have to flex in thosesituations.
But I do think it is really thepreparation and really putting
your game face on when you getinto those environments.
'cause you have to bring it tothe audience too.
Respect them and also engagewith them.
(23:53):
So thank you.
I'm wondering if I could explorea little bit more on some of
this engagement capability thatyou bring to the table, because
you have generated an enormousamount of trust with the
partners you're extraordinarilywell liked in the business.
And I know that has been builtover your career in terms of how
you really built and nurtured.
(24:13):
And protected a lot of thoserelationships over time.
But I'm wondering if, again,there are thoughts that you
could offer to the audienceabout how you have really
developed that approach torelationship engagement and
really continue to build uponthat over your career.
Lukasz Dabrowski (24:30):
Wow.
So I think, yes we're touchingon one of the sort of most
complex and and sensitive pointsin terms of, stakeholder
management.
Stakeholder orchestration is isit's probably one of the most
sophisticated and complex areasof the business.
It's about understanding thebusiness model on both ends.
(24:50):
It is also understanding what isdriving each one of the
stakeholders.
If we apply the classic MedTechmodel who's our.
Economic buyer who's ourchampion, who's our influencer,
supporter, et cetera, et cetera.
It's it's important to realizewhat are they driven by in terms
of perhaps KPIs or incentives.
And last but not least, probablyin the reverse order even, it's
(25:15):
to understand them and reachthem as people.
I would say in most cases, evenwhen we're successful we often
look back and say, okay, Imanaged to tick two boxes out of
three.
But it is not always granted tous to win in all of those areas.
I, I think it's, it reallystarts again with with
approaching every single one ofthose interactions with with a
(25:36):
lot of respect, with plenty ofempathy and, again,
international imagination helps.
If we're talking about anythingthat happens on a global level
it is about seeing the peoplebehind the business, but it's
also about understanding thebusiness thoroughly.
As far as what is the, what isconsidered to be the win for the
(25:58):
other side, what is consideredto be the walkaway points and,
and then what is the pain pointor an opportunity that's we are
trying to address in thisrelationship?
I I think this is also the timewhen data, comes back and is a
true reinforcement of ourefforts a very solid foundation
of our preparation and thenexecution.
(26:19):
Without it, I think none ofthose, intuitive ways would
really work well enough innowadays world.
So yeah, I I also believe thatthe the sort of the area that we
operate in, the area ofinnovation is always associated
with risks.
(26:39):
If we try our best, but, but weunder deliver for whatever
reason, or we even fail, it'sit's actually a good thing to
instead of trying sugarcoat itor or paint it green, just admit
it.
That builds trust.
That builds mutual understandingand and bonds people.
Dorothy Dowling (27:02):
And again, a lot of very deep content that
you shared with the audience,and I would like to just
reinforce a few messages thatyou offered Lucas, because that
element of preparation in termsof understanding who's in the
room and what the role in theroom, and just putting some
science behind thatrelationship.
Mapping in terms of preparation.
I also do think aboutunderstanding what's driving
(27:24):
everyone on the KPIs or theeconomic kind of value creation
that.
Is expected tho.
Those are all really importantelements to really prepare.
And I also think that humanelement that you brought in
terms of understanding the humanbeing behind the role and trying
to connect with them in apersonal way, in a meaningful
personal way is.
(27:46):
Extraordinarily good advice andto me it really reflects how you
have been so successful becauseyou always bring the subject
matter expertise.
I think you are very good atreading audiences and
understanding individual rolesand players in the room, but I
also think you have this abilityto connect with individuals as
humans, which, I think is whatbrings the magic, because I
(28:09):
think when people like you Ithink they wanna invest.
And I think further when yousay, when you have a point of
failure, when you've got astrong basis of likability,
people accept that noteverything is perfect, but
that's what relationships areabout.
It's like you said with StephenCovey, it's the deposit you put
in the relationship bank accountand sometimes you make a few
(28:29):
withdrawals, but hopefully.
The commitment to solve problemstogether is what triumphs in the
end.
So I really appreciate youtalking about, again, the
preparation, because one of thethings over my career that I.
I have sometimes beendisappointed is that a lot of
people think relationships arejust a given and they don't
(28:50):
recognize the effort.
And actually the preparation toreally offer value to partners.
And again, I think that's beenthe hallmark of your career,
that you have really shownothers what you bring to the
table, and that's why you haveso many meaningful professional
relationships in this industry,Lucas.
So thank you.
Lukasz Dabrowski (29:08):
Thank you, Dorothy.
It's every new day is anotheropportunity in that dimension.
So it's yeah, nobody's evergetting to anywhere near
perfection in that sense.
But yeah we all try.
I.
Dorothy Dowling (29:19):
Yes, for sure.
It's a, it is a journey forsure.
I wonder if we could talk alittle bit about your team,
because you have a team aroundthe world.
We're now in some marketsworking in hybrid kinds of work
environments.
I wonder if you can offer anythoughts in terms of how you
really stay connected with allof your teammates around the
world and how you really bridgealignment across some of the
(29:40):
geographical distances.
Lukasz Dabrowski (29:42):
So yes, I think we've entered an entire
new era of remote work and say,from the time when it started,
which was still the early daysof Covid.
It was seamlessly easier.
We didn't know it at the timebecause everybody we connected
with at that point were stillfamiliar faces.
(30:05):
They were just on the screeninstead of in front of you.
Dorothy Dowling (30:08):
Of course.
Yeah.
Lukasz Dabrowski (30:09):
And that changed some years into it.
And, plenty of of newcomersstepped on boards new experts,
valuable talents, whononetheless needs education, who
needs mentoring, coaching,guiding and who need to find
themselves in in a newprofessional environment with
enough self-discipline to toretain themselves in a in a
remote based position.
(30:29):
This is where I think a lot ofhow to best phrase it.
A lot of attention from not justmy side, but from many leaders
went towards the the frameworks,in which we operate.
Not so much the just the directinteractions, but, trying to,
paint something that we areimagining as a well-working
(30:50):
remote environment.
And there was two sets ofinspirations that I remember
very clearly.
One is a an excellent author, aselling author, and a friend of
mine Kian Gohar, who wrote afantastic book on collaborating.
As teams in remote workingenvironments came out at the
best time.
Also, it was just towards theend of the pandemic and
(31:14):
contained multiple valuablelearnings.
The other is is is a bookwritten by one of the former
Amazon senior leaders.
I had the pleasure of meetinghim personally.
His name is Bill Carr.
And, that chapter of the bookcalled Working Backwards
describes a set of managementtools that are designed to
govern a, an organization thatmay be spread all around the
(31:38):
world and with multiple peopleoperating out of office spaces,
as well as all kinds of remotelocations.
And essentially the framework isbased on.
Very detailed transparency onthe mutual understanding of how
the business operates and how doI, as an employee fit in.
But it's far more complex andmore detailed than, let's say,
(32:02):
the system of OKRs objectivesand key results, right?
Drawing those trees ofdependents and who do I need to
succeed?
This is based on utilizing a setof management tools that start
with, narrative, which is a fewpage summary of the actual
concepts, the vision in greatdetail, no slides, only texts,
(32:23):
so that's anybody can askquestions and request
clarifications.
That then trickles down to a setof key strategic objectives
based on the strategy describedin the narrative.
And and later on breaks downinto and I think that is how we
measure success.
So really input output metricset cetera.
(32:45):
Giving everybody that sort of aframework is making it a lot
easier for anybody to imaginewhat does success mean for the
company, but also to verydirectly and very precisely say,
how do I contribute to thatsuccess?
It is focused on thecollaborative spirit in terms
(33:07):
of, okay, who do I need to getthere?
But also on the value of theindividual in the overall
success of the business that Ifound extremely useful.
And my practice, it's until thisday I don't think it will ever
go away.
Definitely that.
Other than that my, my style asfar as working with colleagues
(33:28):
all around the world it reallyis based on full open
communications and not too muchmicromanagement.
I I I may be old school in thatway, but I expect people to live
up to their titles.
And titles don't matter to me atall.
Uhhuh, it's all about marriage.
It's all about whether theyreally are the right fit and and
(33:49):
whether they enjoy what they do.
It's a very transparent, resultoriented and collaboration
oriented style.
Dorothy Dowling (33:58):
I appreciate you sharing those two books.
I have not read either one, soI'm going to get I'm certainly
going to invest the time inreading those'cause I do love
the thesis of what you havepresented here, Lucas.
It's about the intentionality ofcommunications and I.
Certainly we have to have a muchdifferent approach in terms of
how we really supportindividuals in terms of their
(34:20):
understanding and reallybalancing out what that
leadership communication needsto be.
So I think that structure thatyou have offered, that's a lot
to all of us.
I think the other component isI've always believed that
leaders define culture.
So that element of.
Accountability and expectationsand people stepping up and
stepping into the roles anddelivering is an important
(34:42):
message because I think we allown that in terms of our
commitments to our employer andto each other.
Good messages for all of us interms of leadership.
We're coming up to the end ofour interview now, Lucas, but I
would love to.
Just get your perspectivebecause you're a dad, you're a
husband, you travel the worldmore than anyone I know.
(35:03):
And you're a very hardworkingexecutive.
I'm wondering how you findharmony and support your family
in terms of all of their needsas well as all the professional
responsibilities that you carry.
Lukasz Dabrowski (35:18):
I I cannot say, I have always found harmony
and the business versus privatelife priorities are quite often
very difficult to managesimultaneously.
I do remember a lot ofsacrifices in major concessions
in my past life, but I thinkwhat has helped me reach a point
of stability.
(35:38):
Beyond that, the point ofhappiness you are talking to a
very happy man Dorothy.
I know that it really startswith me being a huge fan of of a
Japanese concept called Ikigai.
Which consists of let's say aroadmap, of priorities to pursue
in your life, both business andprivate.
(35:59):
It splits into four simple fourdimensions, but they overlap
with each other.
One is doing something that youlove.
Second is doing something thatyou're good at'cause they're not
the same things they might be.
Third is what is it that you canget paid for?
And I'm not talking about a lotof money.
(36:19):
It's just whether you can getpaid for it.
And the fourth is probably themost complex and difficult one.
It's it's about what the worldneeds.
And in the intersection of thosefour guidance elements live
values like mission vocation,profession for us to consider
altogether.
(36:40):
And and I think, that has drivenme to to understanding how
important balancing thosepriorities are.
I gotta say probably too latein, in life.
But yes, realizing the thesources of my true energy, the
benefits of my family time, thebenefits of spending time in
nature, which is something Iabsolutely love.
Protecting my, what I call theinner core, which is in simple
(37:03):
terms, leaving all the troubleoutside the door of of your
home.
That might be work related.
And and yeah, the only otherthing that I can think of is,
and I think that is aboutphysical activity.
And I think that is about myfavorite sports that I try to
make time for.
Now, but yes, ikigai was thekey.
It still is.
Dorothy Dowling (37:24):
You have shared a lot of profound wisdom with us
today, Lucas.
So I am very grateful for howmuch time you've invested in
preparing to share all yourideas with our audiences today.
And again, I just thank you forall that you do for our
industry.
You're an inspiration to me.
I love watching what you do andI love watching how you do it.
So thank you for making time forthis interview today.
Lukasz Dabrowski (37:46):
Thank you so much.
I I'm delighted to be here andonce again, many thanks for
having me.
Really appreciate it.
Dorothy Dowling (37:53):
Wonderful.
I would like to again, thankLucas and I'd also like to thank
our audience, and if you'veenjoyed this interview, I hope
you'll visit us as it's personalstories.com, where you'll find
webcasts and podcasts from otherindustry leaders like Lucas,
which are designed to empoweryour knowledge and fuel your
spirit.
I hope to see you there.
Greetings.
I am Dorothy Dowling.
Welcome to its Personal Stories,a hospitality podcast dedicated
to highlighting the inspiringjourneys of leaders in the
hospitality industry.
We are a nonprofit organizationfocused on empowering personal
success.
Today I am delighted to welcomeLucas Dabrowski, senior Vice
President, global SupplierRelations at HRS Lucas.
(00:28):
It's truly an honor to have youwith us today.
Lukasz Dabrowski (00:31):
Dorothy, thank you for having me.
The honor is mine.
I consider this interview one ofthe highlights and peaks of my
career so far.
So really appreciate the invite.
Thank you.
Dorothy Dowling (00:42):
Wow, that's a wonderful compliment to all of
us.
Thank you.
Our conversations are all aboutempowering personal success or
the lived experience, lessonsand wisdom of extraordinary
leaders like yourself.
So we are very much lookingforward to your wisdom today.
Lukasz Dabrowski (00:57):
I I hope I live long enough to live up to
half of those complimentsthough.
Dorothy Dowling (01:03):
Okay.
You're too guide.
All right.
Maybe let's get right to itbecause your career is
extraordinarily impressive.
You have spanned continencecompanies and challenges
throughout your career.
I'm wondering if you can walk usthrough your career journey and
how intentional the careermapping was that really shaped
the opportunities that youchoose, chose to pursue.
Lukasz Dabrowski (01:23):
I'll I'll try to wrap it up in the next four
hours.
So lemme start this.
Okay.
Only kidding.
I I was attracted to step intothe let's say professional world
quite early in my life.
Being a, an introvert teenager Idecided I had to, break that
barrier between me and otherpeople in terms of
(01:45):
communicating, public speaking,et cetera, et cetera.
Decided to throw myself into thedeep waters and and became a
tour guide at the age of 17.
Born and raised in Warsaw,Poland.
This was my sort of initialrealm and then extended into
some European countries.
I was active in, in the uk inWestern Europe, in France as
well.
Some years into it, I I decidedI I need to stay put for a
(02:07):
little longer and I joined oneof the leading global chains in
1997 that was married,international, went through all
of the ranks and started reallylow made it into sales and
marketing.
And from then on expanded intomultiple different countries.
So went from Poland all the waythrough to uk, Greece France
(02:31):
done multiple projects in Russiaand the us.
And yeah, got extremelyattracted to exploring
international territories andcultures.
I was lucky to, continue thatwith my next employer.
It's HRS celebrated my 15thanniversary quite recently.
Congratulations.
(02:51):
Thank you.
And and the cool thing about it,none of those 15 years felt
alike or the same.
They were also full ofexcitement and international
travel.
Five years into the job, I Iwent into my first global role
operating out of Germany, but.
Literally living on an airplane.
And since then, since 2014,late, I, I do circle the world
(03:14):
anywhere from five up to 15times each year.
I I then moved from Germany toJapan which was my official Asia
Pacific residence.
Tokyo, but spent most of my timein China, Southeast Asia, India.
Australia.
So really covered the the entireregion all the way up until
(03:36):
Covid came out to to greet us onthat side of the world a little
earlier than in the west.
I took that opportunity as asilver lining, relocated back to
Europe, and I'm still performingmy global supplier relations
duties, but based out of southof Europe.
Out of priest these days.
Dorothy Dowling (03:55):
I want, I'm wondering if we could explore a
little bit more around just theleadership roles, and you have
taken on some really complexassignments in terms of building
the HRS brand and therelationships around the world.
I'm wondering if you could helpour audience understand what
drew you to these opportunitiesand how taking on all of these
really significant global rolesreally shaped you personally and
(04:18):
professionally.
I.
Lukasz Dabrowski (04:20):
So I, I've always been a curious person and
I think that's, that reallyhelps.
Growing up in Socialist Polandleaves you hungry for
experiencing, anything outsideof the Iron Curtain.
I was doing a lot of reading andthe opportunity to travel was
always a dream of mine.
As simple as it is, that was mymotivation.
That was my, my main reason forpursuing international
(04:42):
opportunities.
And I have to say it's alsoabout, very quickly into it,
realizing that with travel comesa very unique type of learning
that is based on culturalexperiences, that is based on
different observations.
In terms of how markets stick,how different businesses operate
(05:04):
in those markets, and I foundthat absolutely fascinating.
And one of those, I thinkunderlying common denominators
was always yes, getting throughthe intercultural bit.
So really understanding the theway that locals think and, and
the way they engage in business.
That's that's definitelysomething that impacted my my
(05:26):
business acumen a lot.
I even call it internationalimagination.
I consider it one of the prettysignificant qualities in
business these days.
Yeah, that's that's probably themain reason.
Dorothy Dowling (05:40):
If I may, Lucas, you have some of the
rules and just theresponsibilities that you took
on, particularly driving growthin China and you were really
blazing new trails.
I'm just wondering if you cantalk a little bit more about
some of those culturallearnings.
'cause I agree with you, whenyou travel the world, I think
you get a very differentperspective.
But when you have to developbusiness in a brand new
(06:02):
territory for a company, withthe kind of leadership role you
had and you had to staff andbuild the partner relations and
really figure out the go-tomarket strategies in many
different territories around theworld.
I'm just wondering if there'sany wisdom from all of those
experiences that you could sharewith our audience.
Lukasz Dabrowski (06:21):
Yeah.
I would say that the number onewould always be stay humble,
keep your eyes and ears open,and really try to invest in
understanding I.
Your surroundings, both in termsof culture and the business.
Never assume anything aboutthat.
Whatever great business modelyou might be operating that
(06:42):
works fantastically well in, Idon't know, Western Europe or in
North America, will instantly besuccessful in the other areas of
the world in Latin America, AsiaPacific, in Africa.
That is something that thatshould never be assumed.
And you you actually have towith the value proposition that
(07:02):
you operate with, you have toact as a I like the comparison
of a key maker, right?
So you have the same materialsthat these are the element of
the value proposition that youcarry.
But but you have to cut the keyto fit the lock to a particular
market.
It is the same elements of thevalue proposition, but they
might be played and orchestratedin a different fashion to
(07:25):
achieve success in a newterritory.
And that's based on a huge setof circumstances.
A handshake in north Americadoesn't equal a handshake and
the smile in Japan or in China.
So yeah, just when you think youmight be getting ahead, next
morning might bring a slightdisappointment.
(07:46):
Yeah, and I think that's allbeautiful.
That's that's just part of ofthe diversity of of our planet.
Dorothy Dowling (07:52):
I really love the way that you've thought
about it as being a key andunlocking the value proposition
in a different way and beingable to nuance how that door
might open.
And I also really love themessage about being humble.
I.
Lucas.
'cause I do think that is areally important thing when you
go into another country is tonot to assume that the way that
(08:12):
you think is the way that othersmay think and the way you might
attack a problem is the way thatthey may approach problem
solving.
I, I'm wondering if we couldtalk a little bit more about
that because given some of theterritories that you've had to
really unlock some of that valueproposition and really think
about problem solving in some ofthose territories.
(08:33):
Is there an approach that youused in terms of breaking down
some of those complex challengesand figuring out how to solve
the problem in those differentterritories around the world?
Lukasz Dabrowski (08:44):
So I definitely, yes I was growing up
as a big fan of Stephen Covey,at the Seven Habits.
So Seek First who understandsthem to be understood would be
the number one rule to apply.
And and there's really nothingwrong with, staying silent and
just listening and observing inthe first meetings that you go
(09:05):
to and establishing yourself ina new territory, in a new
market.
It's actually a, not just a signof that you are open to take in
this, new knowledge andexperience, but it's also a
major sign of respect that Ithink especially when it comes
to the cultures outside of theWestern Hemisphere, makes a huge
difference.
So that would be number one.
(09:28):
Then I would always question anyproblem that's that I encounter.
And also the opportunities thatI encounter with the five why's.
So it really is about getting tothe bottom of the root cause of
what is the issue, what is thechallenge, what is the problem?
But also, why do we see certainthings as opportunities?
(09:50):
Why do we see these concreteelements as as successful, as
valuable elements of theproposition that we bring to the
table.
And.
It's not about assuming andsimple taking it for granted,
this is where most people thinkthat they've won.
No.
It's also about understandingexactly why, what is that thing
that triggers a buying decisionfor instance.
(10:13):
So over time, I think the theone reflection that grew on me
and one of the elements ofproblem solving that that I,
incorporated in my in mymethodology is is data.
So yeah, I I would not make asingle call without having all
the data that is relevant tomaking a decision in front of me
(10:34):
that came with experience andage
Dorothy Dowling (10:38):
and some of the technology that has empowered
some of that information to usin different ways as well.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm wondering if we could talk alittle bit about some of the
people that have, influencedyour career, the mentors, the
champions, allies that havehelped you grow and helped shape
your leadership.
(10:58):
I'm wondering if there's lessonslearned that you would offer to
the audience.
Lukasz Dabrowski (11:04):
Most definitely.
I have to say, I looking back, Iknow I was blessed.
I was truly lucky.
I.
To to come across inspirationalleaders mentors allies and
partners, that, that helped megrow, that believed in me, that
respected me.
And and yeah, for whateverreason have chosen to to stay by
my side.
It is extremely important toextremely important to cherish
(11:27):
those, those relationships asthey are the additional evidence
or validation that every humanbeing needs in terms of proving
their worth, that they'reheading in the right direction.
The only additional thing that Ihave to say that I have to add
is Arthur Schopenhauer being myfavorite philosopher.
(11:47):
That I grew up reading lot of anAustrian gentleman was one of
his papers he wrote was aboutthat the majority of our
learnings in life, the majorityof what we know is based on
negative versus positive.
Most of us, we we like toquickly forget about those
negative examples that we see asin, oh, I'll never be that
(12:11):
person, or I will never act likethat while down the road.
And now looking back I candefinitely say that it is true.
Yes, there is definitely more ofthose examples and they're
extremely valuable when youactually acknowledge their.
Value properly.
So yeah, most of our learningscome from what we would normally
(12:34):
consider mistakes or failures orhardships.
All of that is far more commonthan success and happiness and
yeah they're to be valuedequally in my opinion.
Dorothy Dowling (12:49):
Yeah, I think for sure it is that growth
mindset that you're referencingLucas in terms of approaching
failures or things that didn'tquite work out the way we
would've hoped as I.
Really learning from those andbeing able to go back and do
that forensic kind of assessmentof what we might have done
differently and how that mighthave changed outcomes.
(13:10):
But I really do appreciate howhumble you are and the way you
think about that leadershipjourney.
And I also have great respectwhen you talk about how people
identified something in you thatmaybe you didn't necessarily see
yourself.
But I do think you've had anincredible career and you've
taken on.
Extraordinary challenges.
So I think there are many thatlook up to you in terms of just
(13:33):
the kind of ways that you haveembraced really difficult
assignments and have taken themon and have been so successful
in executing on all of thosethings.
I, I'm wondering if we can talkeven more about that because
when I look at the.
Way the business travel space inparticular is undergoing and
what I consider maybe thelargest sea change I have seen
(13:54):
in my career.
Particularly with AI and modernmodernization of business travel
re retailing.
I would love for you to sharewith the audience how you really
stay on top of all of, thechange management and your
learning and your ability to addso much value to your global
partners.
Lukasz Dabrowski (14:13):
Dorothy, first and foremost, thank you very
much for all the kind words andcompliments of course, from you.
It's means a lot to me, trustme.
I think, we go back many years,thank you for that.
Yes.
I think the again, back toStephen Covey's example,
sharpening the saw.
The last of the seven habits issomething that comes to mind in
terms of investment in personalgrowth.
(14:35):
And I think a lot of us tend toperceive personal growth as as a
certain process that is verydefined and locked in and maybe
even planned or orchestrateinside our Outlook calendars.
But but it to me it happens on adaily basis and.
Quite often, very seamlessly.
My perspective is the following.
I'm very lucky to be surroundedby pure innovation on a daily
(14:57):
basis.
The business that I that I workfor the colleagues that I work
with are industries, innovators,entrepreneurs, and disruptors.
And and that goes back to thepoint of the five whys.
And that goes back to,identifying opportunities and
pain points and addressing themwith a lot of effort and
conviction.
(15:18):
In that process, there is nosuch thing as a failure to be
honest.
There is either a win or alearning to be applied, and I
very much respect companycultures that have that built
into them.
So allowing.
For people of any rank in thecompany to actually try and and
(15:38):
if a mistake is made and thenthat mistake is considered a
valuable learning.
That's that learning element isthat learning aspect is also
something that is tremendouslyimportant to me.
I I feel accomplished at the endof the day when I have learned
something new, even if it's aminor detail, I.
(15:59):
But something that I didn't knowyesterday that drives me.
I I would probably die ofboredom in any other environment
that is maybe more like a Swisswatch in terms of predictability
of operations.
And and again, last but notleast, to the point of
sharpening the, so I think it'sit's extremely important to to
connect the the effort.
(16:19):
That we invest into growingpersonally with making sure that
we also have the time to tounwind, yeah, to regain energy,
to recharge, to go back to ourpower bank, whatever that might
be.
I I definitely appreciate thatpart a lot.
Being where I am.
Dorothy Dowling (16:37):
I think you've offered some really important
elements there because I dothink immersing yourself with
colleagues and that they may bewithin your company and
certainly within the industry,that really we all mentor each
other and I think we all offerlots of opportunities to grow
together.
And I think sometimes just thework you have done through the
industry engagement that youhave committed to has really
(17:01):
powered.
A lot of that learning for youLucas and as, as well as for
HRS.
So I always commend how activeyou are in the industry.
I think the other thing that themessage that you just talked
about is just that organicnature.
And I, I fundamentally believefor people that are in that sort
of marketing, distribution,sales, that you have to stay
(17:22):
engaged because that is, a lotof it just happens in the day to
day in terms of.
The opportunities that presentthemselves in our activities.
And I think the last message,which is something I have really
come to respect as I've gottenolder, is that recharging just
refreshes your capabilities interms of giving you some time to
take in what you might havelearned that you may not have.
(17:44):
Fully digested, but also justempowers your capabilities
because you need to be wellrested to really, I think,
optimize a lot of theopportunities that are before
you.
So I think those are reallyimportant messages to our
audience, and I thank you forsharing those.
Lukasz Dabrowski (18:01):
You're welcome.
Yes, indeed.
I couldn't agree more.
It's a major effort to tackleeven the basic understanding of
our very complex ecosystem.
And, it takes a lot.
I think it takes a lot of effortto get through it, to understand
it, to trace, the flow of valuesand and also understanding of
the business models traditionaland new innovative ones.
(18:23):
Follow the money flows reallyunderstand it from the inside
out.
That is far more demanding thanit used to be.
Some years ago, I.
Dorothy Dowling (18:32):
I, I love that element.
That's something I've alwaystried to keep in mind is to
follow the money flow because Ithink that really does tie back
to the value proposition, makingsure you're delivering.
On all the different individualsthat are looking to you to help
them in terms of their businessoutcomes.
That's a really importantmessage.
I wonder if we can talk a littlebit about you personally Lucas.
(18:53):
'cause I have always lovedwatching you on stage.
You bring so much energy,passion, you're really
exceptional.
And I would love to hear interms of you, you are often put
into high stakes situationswhere you have to perform.
I'm wondering if there's anywisdom that you could share with
our audience about how do youprepare and deliver in terms of,
(19:15):
not only the content, but justthe authe authenticity of your
messaging.
Lukasz Dabrowski (19:21):
Thank you again.
Do I I try my best.
I,
Dorothy Dowling (19:25):
you do an exceptional job you are one of
the best
Lukasz Dabrowski (19:28):
Long way to go, long way to go to match some
of the best industry speakers,including yourself.
It's it's nothing too complex,but I think it in terms of my
personal view and style andrecommendation at the same time
it's about a few basic items.
If you fail to prepare to fail.
Yes the research behind thetopic that I'm speaking on is
(19:49):
multidimensional and it'ssomething that needs to be done
very thoroughly.
I'd rather not speak on a topicthat I am not confident enough
about.
And obviously.
Doing that research.
It's also about, rehearsing themain points that you want to get
across.
So that's preparation.
Second would be making sure thatnext to owning your area of
(20:12):
expertise, you you also knowyour audience, that you
recognize who's out there, whydid they come, what is it that
they're looking for whatdifferent interests they
represent.
What is of interest to them?
What is, what makes themcurious?
Why is it that they sacrificetheir time and dedicate their
time to to sit in the audienceand watch someone speak or or
(20:34):
follow a panel?
It it is equally important alsoin, in the case of any
co-panelists and presentersmaking sure that again we
understand what is there.
Point of view shaped by where isit that they originate from,
what business they represent,what are the key objectives that
(20:56):
they want to attain throughparticipation.
And and with all thatpreparation I think, yeah I
would feel confident enough toappear on stage.
And that is, I would say, halfof the success.
The other half is interactive,the other half is just about
reading the audience.
(21:16):
You will have convinced, verywell, you'll have various
different types of audience.
Very passive, half asleep, old,young, multicultural, you name
it.
And just looking straight intotheir eyes and and confirming,
assuring that they actuallyfollow and that they agree or
(21:37):
disagree is is actually aphenomenal opportunity.
'cause you can make twists andturns in your presentation to
bond with the audience better toreach them in a far more
personal way than originallyintended.
Or to leave them with a fewsimple messages to go away with
if if they're really not thatactive.
(21:57):
That's also about making sure,yes the key highlights or the
key points that you wanna getacross are explicit,
Dorothy Dowling (22:03):
are,
Lukasz Dabrowski (22:04):
well heard.
Dorothy Dowling (22:05):
I think, that is very strategic in terms of
what you're talking about,because I do fundamentally
believe that.
Prepping in terms of content isreally important.
Then you had also talked aboutunderstanding the audience
because again, we are often putinto situations.
Where it is a very differentaudience, particularly when
we're traveling.
And then that third elementabout who you're engaging with
(22:27):
on stage to make sure you knowthem and can obviously work
together with those individuals.
But I do think that is the magicthat you bring Lucas in terms of
the way you engage with theaudience.
So that element of reading theaudience and then.
Trying to reach them becausethat's what I have seen you do
on stage in terms of activelyoutreaching to the audience and
(22:48):
trying to drive that level ofinterest.
So I think that's really goodadvice.
And then I also really love thatsummation that you're offering
at the end to just crystallizethe takeaways that the audience
may want to learn from you tomake sure they walk away with
really that understanding ofwhat the conversation really was
(23:08):
about.
So thank you for reallydissecting your approach in such
a significant way for us.
My
Lukasz Dabrowski (23:16):
pleasure.
If I, again, I don't considermyself an exceptional speaker,
but if I can do what I can do ona basic level as a former
introvert, teenager, drowning inbooks not leaving his room then
I'm pretty sure anybody watchingcan do better.
Dorothy Dowling (23:32):
I'm not sure about that Lucas, but I do think
it's the intentionality and I dothink that introverts can flex.
I am also an introvert.
And you have to flex in thosesituations.
But I do think it is really thepreparation and really putting
your game face on when you getinto those environments.
'cause you have to bring it tothe audience too.
Respect them and also engagewith them.
(23:53):
So thank you.
I'm wondering if I could explorea little bit more on some of
this engagement capability thatyou bring to the table, because
you have generated an enormousamount of trust with the
partners you're extraordinarilywell liked in the business.
And I know that has been builtover your career in terms of how
you really built and nurtured.
(24:13):
And protected a lot of thoserelationships over time.
But I'm wondering if, again,there are thoughts that you
could offer to the audienceabout how you have really
developed that approach torelationship engagement and
really continue to build uponthat over your career.
Lukasz Dabrowski (24:30):
Wow.
So I think, yes we're touchingon one of the sort of most
complex and and sensitive pointsin terms of, stakeholder
management.
Stakeholder orchestration is isit's probably one of the most
sophisticated and complex areasof the business.
It's about understanding thebusiness model on both ends.
(24:50):
It is also understanding what isdriving each one of the
stakeholders.
If we apply the classic MedTechmodel who's our.
Economic buyer who's ourchampion, who's our influencer,
supporter, et cetera, et cetera.
It's it's important to realizewhat are they driven by in terms
of perhaps KPIs or incentives.
And last but not least, probablyin the reverse order even, it's
(25:15):
to understand them and reachthem as people.
I would say in most cases, evenwhen we're successful we often
look back and say, okay, Imanaged to tick two boxes out of
three.
But it is not always granted tous to win in all of those areas.
I, I think it's, it reallystarts again with with
approaching every single one ofthose interactions with with a
(25:36):
lot of respect, with plenty ofempathy and, again,
international imagination helps.
If we're talking about anythingthat happens on a global level
it is about seeing the peoplebehind the business, but it's
also about understanding thebusiness thoroughly.
As far as what is the, what isconsidered to be the win for the
(25:58):
other side, what is consideredto be the walkaway points and,
and then what is the pain pointor an opportunity that's we are
trying to address in thisrelationship?
I I think this is also the timewhen data, comes back and is a
true reinforcement of ourefforts a very solid foundation
of our preparation and thenexecution.
(26:19):
Without it, I think none ofthose, intuitive ways would
really work well enough innowadays world.
So yeah, I I also believe thatthe the sort of the area that we
operate in, the area ofinnovation is always associated
with risks.
(26:39):
If we try our best, but, but weunder deliver for whatever
reason, or we even fail, it'sit's actually a good thing to
instead of trying sugarcoat itor or paint it green, just admit
it.
That builds trust.
That builds mutual understandingand and bonds people.
Dorothy Dowling (27:02):
And again, a lot of very deep content that
you shared with the audience,and I would like to just
reinforce a few messages thatyou offered Lucas, because that
element of preparation in termsof understanding who's in the
room and what the role in theroom, and just putting some
science behind thatrelationship.
Mapping in terms of preparation.
I also do think aboutunderstanding what's driving
(27:24):
everyone on the KPIs or theeconomic kind of value creation
that.
Is expected tho.
Those are all really importantelements to really prepare.
And I also think that humanelement that you brought in
terms of understanding the humanbeing behind the role and trying
to connect with them in apersonal way, in a meaningful
personal way is.
(27:46):
Extraordinarily good advice andto me it really reflects how you
have been so successful becauseyou always bring the subject
matter expertise.
I think you are very good atreading audiences and
understanding individual rolesand players in the room, but I
also think you have this abilityto connect with individuals as
humans, which, I think is whatbrings the magic, because I
(28:09):
think when people like you Ithink they wanna invest.
And I think further when yousay, when you have a point of
failure, when you've got astrong basis of likability,
people accept that noteverything is perfect, but
that's what relationships areabout.
It's like you said with StephenCovey, it's the deposit you put
in the relationship bank accountand sometimes you make a few
(28:29):
withdrawals, but hopefully.
The commitment to solve problemstogether is what triumphs in the
end.
So I really appreciate youtalking about, again, the
preparation, because one of thethings over my career that I.
I have sometimes beendisappointed is that a lot of
people think relationships arejust a given and they don't
(28:50):
recognize the effort.
And actually the preparation toreally offer value to partners.
And again, I think that's beenthe hallmark of your career,
that you have really shownothers what you bring to the
table, and that's why you haveso many meaningful professional
relationships in this industry,Lucas.
So thank you.
Lukasz Dabrowski (29:08):
Thank you, Dorothy.
It's every new day is anotheropportunity in that dimension.
So it's yeah, nobody's evergetting to anywhere near
perfection in that sense.
But yeah we all try.
I.
Dorothy Dowling (29:19):
Yes, for sure.
It's a, it is a journey forsure.
I wonder if we could talk alittle bit about your team,
because you have a team aroundthe world.
We're now in some marketsworking in hybrid kinds of work
environments.
I wonder if you can offer anythoughts in terms of how you
really stay connected with allof your teammates around the
world and how you really bridgealignment across some of the
(29:40):
geographical distances.
Lukasz Dabrowski (29:42):
So yes, I think we've entered an entire
new era of remote work and say,from the time when it started,
which was still the early daysof Covid.
It was seamlessly easier.
We didn't know it at the timebecause everybody we connected
with at that point were stillfamiliar faces.
(30:05):
They were just on the screeninstead of in front of you.
Dorothy Dowling (30:08):
Of course.
Yeah.
Lukasz Dabrowski (30:09):
And that changed some years into it.
And, plenty of of newcomersstepped on boards new experts,
valuable talents, whononetheless needs education, who
needs mentoring, coaching,guiding and who need to find
themselves in in a newprofessional environment with
enough self-discipline to toretain themselves in a in a
remote based position.
(30:29):
This is where I think a lot ofhow to best phrase it.
A lot of attention from not justmy side, but from many leaders
went towards the the frameworks,in which we operate.
Not so much the just the directinteractions, but, trying to,
paint something that we areimagining as a well-working
(30:50):
remote environment.
And there was two sets ofinspirations that I remember
very clearly.
One is a an excellent author, aselling author, and a friend of
mine Kian Gohar, who wrote afantastic book on collaborating.
As teams in remote workingenvironments came out at the
best time.
Also, it was just towards theend of the pandemic and
(31:14):
contained multiple valuablelearnings.
The other is is is a bookwritten by one of the former
Amazon senior leaders.
I had the pleasure of meetinghim personally.
His name is Bill Carr.
And, that chapter of the bookcalled Working Backwards
describes a set of managementtools that are designed to
govern a, an organization thatmay be spread all around the
(31:38):
world and with multiple peopleoperating out of office spaces,
as well as all kinds of remotelocations.
And essentially the framework isbased on.
Very detailed transparency onthe mutual understanding of how
the business operates and how doI, as an employee fit in.
But it's far more complex andmore detailed than, let's say,
(32:02):
the system of OKRs objectivesand key results, right?
Drawing those trees ofdependents and who do I need to
succeed?
This is based on utilizing a setof management tools that start
with, narrative, which is a fewpage summary of the actual
concepts, the vision in greatdetail, no slides, only texts,
(32:23):
so that's anybody can askquestions and request
clarifications.
That then trickles down to a setof key strategic objectives
based on the strategy describedin the narrative.
And and later on breaks downinto and I think that is how we
measure success.
So really input output metricset cetera.
(32:45):
Giving everybody that sort of aframework is making it a lot
easier for anybody to imaginewhat does success mean for the
company, but also to verydirectly and very precisely say,
how do I contribute to thatsuccess?
It is focused on thecollaborative spirit in terms
(33:07):
of, okay, who do I need to getthere?
But also on the value of theindividual in the overall
success of the business that Ifound extremely useful.
And my practice, it's until thisday I don't think it will ever
go away.
Definitely that.
Other than that my, my style asfar as working with colleagues
(33:28):
all around the world it reallyis based on full open
communications and not too muchmicromanagement.
I I I may be old school in thatway, but I expect people to live
up to their titles.
And titles don't matter to me atall.
Uhhuh, it's all about marriage.
It's all about whether theyreally are the right fit and and
(33:49):
whether they enjoy what they do.
It's a very transparent, resultoriented and collaboration
oriented style.
Dorothy Dowling (33:58):
I appreciate you sharing those two books.
I have not read either one, soI'm going to get I'm certainly
going to invest the time inreading those'cause I do love
the thesis of what you havepresented here, Lucas.
It's about the intentionality ofcommunications and I.
Certainly we have to have a muchdifferent approach in terms of
how we really supportindividuals in terms of their
(34:20):
understanding and reallybalancing out what that
leadership communication needsto be.
So I think that structure thatyou have offered, that's a lot
to all of us.
I think the other component isI've always believed that
leaders define culture.
So that element of.
Accountability and expectationsand people stepping up and
stepping into the roles anddelivering is an important
(34:42):
message because I think we allown that in terms of our
commitments to our employer andto each other.
Good messages for all of us interms of leadership.
We're coming up to the end ofour interview now, Lucas, but I
would love to.
Just get your perspectivebecause you're a dad, you're a
husband, you travel the worldmore than anyone I know.
(35:03):
And you're a very hardworkingexecutive.
I'm wondering how you findharmony and support your family
in terms of all of their needsas well as all the professional
responsibilities that you carry.
Lukasz Dabrowski (35:18):
I I cannot say, I have always found harmony
and the business versus privatelife priorities are quite often
very difficult to managesimultaneously.
I do remember a lot ofsacrifices in major concessions
in my past life, but I thinkwhat has helped me reach a point
of stability.
(35:38):
Beyond that, the point ofhappiness you are talking to a
very happy man Dorothy.
I know that it really startswith me being a huge fan of of a
Japanese concept called Ikigai.
Which consists of let's say aroadmap, of priorities to pursue
in your life, both business andprivate.
(35:59):
It splits into four simple fourdimensions, but they overlap
with each other.
One is doing something that youlove.
Second is doing something thatyou're good at'cause they're not
the same things they might be.
Third is what is it that you canget paid for?
And I'm not talking about a lotof money.
(36:19):
It's just whether you can getpaid for it.
And the fourth is probably themost complex and difficult one.
It's it's about what the worldneeds.
And in the intersection of thosefour guidance elements live
values like mission vocation,profession for us to consider
altogether.
(36:40):
And and I think, that has drivenme to to understanding how
important balancing thosepriorities are.
I gotta say probably too latein, in life.
But yes, realizing the thesources of my true energy, the
benefits of my family time, thebenefits of spending time in
nature, which is something Iabsolutely love.
Protecting my, what I call theinner core, which is in simple
(37:03):
terms, leaving all the troubleoutside the door of of your
home.
That might be work related.
And and yeah, the only otherthing that I can think of is,
and I think that is aboutphysical activity.
And I think that is about myfavorite sports that I try to
make time for.
Now, but yes, ikigai was thekey.
It still is.
Dorothy Dowling (37:24):
You have shared a lot of profound wisdom with us
today, Lucas.
So I am very grateful for howmuch time you've invested in
preparing to share all yourideas with our audiences today.
And again, I just thank you forall that you do for our
industry.
You're an inspiration to me.
I love watching what you do andI love watching how you do it.
So thank you for making time forthis interview today.
Lukasz Dabrowski (37:46):
Thank you so much.
I I'm delighted to be here andonce again, many thanks for
having me.
Really appreciate it.
Dorothy Dowling (37:53):
Wonderful.
I would like to again, thankLucas and I'd also like to thank
our audience, and if you'veenjoyed this interview, I hope
you'll visit us as it's personalstories.com, where you'll find
webcasts and podcasts from otherindustry leaders like Lucas,
which are designed to empoweryour knowledge and fuel your
spirit.
I hope to see you there.
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