August 15, 2025 • 31 mins
Having worked in over 25 countries, Petra career has been built on taking risks and leaning into the resilience she’s built along the way. In this interview, she explains the advantages of interim executive roles and shares the key factors that drove her success. In addition, she details the three things to keep in mind when advocating for oneself.
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Episode Transcript
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Lan Elliott (00:01):
Hello and welcome to its Personal Stories, a
hospitality podcast.
My name is Lan Elliot on behalfof its personal stories.
And today, really happy to havePetra Deuter, who is global
board director and interim CEOand spends most of her time in
Europe.
And it's just a different way ofdoing business.
(00:22):
So I'm thrilled to have Petrajoin us, share her perspective.
Welcome Petra.
Lovely to be here.
Lan great to see you.
We've talked in the past and I'min so inspired by your journey.
Could you share a bit about yourcareer journey, some of the
pivotal points and what youthink were critical to your
(00:46):
success?
Petra Deuter (00:47):
So looking back, I feel that my career has had a
lot of inflection points.
Change and reinvention havereally been the constant, never
been one to sit in a comfortzone.
So I've often been the first inroles launching something new or
leading a transformation,whether that was reviving a
(01:10):
struggling business or steeringthrough a crisis many moons ago
I started, in travel andhospitality with Lufthansa Cargo
in my hometown of Chicago.
As an admin or a secretary.
We called ourselves to the cargomanager at the time and I worked
my way up while also going touniversity at the same time at
(01:32):
night to get my degree ininternational business.
And once I had that, I movedover to the passenger side of
the airline and basically.
Built what became a fantastic 15year career in the airline
industry.
I think of one major turningpoint.
It was when I was promoted to myfirst management role in New
(01:56):
York.
It was Lufthansa's first, veryfirst star alliance manager for
North America right when theStar Alliance launched with
United and SAS and, that roleopened international doors,
honestly, and set the stage forwhat became my truly global
career.
And then just two years later, Iwas appointed Lufthansa's first
(02:20):
female managing director forSouth America, based in Buenos
Aires overseeing, let's say 13offices in four countries.
And that was, I have to say,extremely exciting at the time,
but also incredibly challenging.
New region, new culture, newlanguage and a major economic
(02:45):
crisis in Argentina in 2000 and2001, which you may remember
followed by September 11th.
And at the time I didn't have asingle peer who looked like me,
LAN.
There were no other femaleairline executives.
Several years later, I made Ithink, a big pivot, if not the
(03:07):
biggest one so far.
Moving back to the US andfounding my own contemporary art
and antique gallery in Chicago.
Personal passion of mine.
In a way that path then led meinto the hotel industry in
Europe.
I moved from Chicago to Germanyback to Europe, and joined Acor
(03:29):
as their global VP of sales,marketing and distribution for
300 plus German hotels.
So I basically moved from theairline industry via an art
gallery into the hotel business.
And then I went on from AUR tohold a number of executive roles
for other firms, includinginterim and startup positions in
(03:51):
hotels and real estate acrossEurope.
That includes having worked inPrague, in Marbella, in
Florence, Italy and so on, andMalta.
And I was then the op, the headof operations and asset
management with l and r Hotels.
In London managing theirMediterranean assets.
So one of Europe's major privateinvestment firms.
(04:14):
So yes, change andtransformation are what I thrive
on.
Each shift forced me basicallyto adapt and grow in new ways.
Lan Elliott (04:27):
Yeah, I think it's a great thing when you're able
to jump into the middle ofsomething and have that
confidence to, to say.
I'll figure out how to drivethis train while it's moving and
we'll figure it out and getgoing and accelerate.
And I think that is a greatskill to have the confidence to
say yes to those kinds ofopportunities and then also get
(04:50):
in there and figure it out andnot be afraid.
Petra Deuter (04:52):
Just speaking of, what the success factors,
actually were, if I think back Ithink the biggest factor has
been my willingness, as yousaid, you, as you said, to step
outside my comfort zone and takerisks, whether that meant moving
to a new country, learninganother language, or taking on a
role I wasn't really fully readyfor, many times I said yes to
(05:13):
opportunities that scared me.
And then had to learn incrediblyfast on the job.
Wasn't about being the smartestby any means, the most
experience or the most popularin the room.
It was about being resilient,resourceful, and figuring things
out as I went along, and I'vemade mistakes, plenty of them,
but I pulled myself up and keptgoing.
(05:36):
And I think also that living ineight countries, and as I told
you before and working in morethan 25.
Has also shaped the way I lead.
That cross-cultural experiencehelps you navigate complexity
and differences in a way I thinkno classroom can teach you.
And if I think of that mostdefining early experience in
(05:58):
Argentina when I became, thefirst female managing director
for South America duringSeptember 11th.
That required constant quickdecision making, creative cost
cutting, and all thatcommunication I had to do with
stakeholders in all directdirections.
I think that period taught meresilience in a way nothing else
(06:20):
could.
Diving in there, managing allthe issues that I had never done
before it's that resiliencecombined with the ability to
solve problems quickly underpressure that has carried me.
Through until today.
Lan Elliott (06:35):
Yeah.
I think resilience is such agreat theme and I think all
leaders need that, butespecially I think in the
hospitality and travel businesswhere we are so prone to
downturns resilience I think isextremely important in our
industry.
I wanna touch on interim rolesbecause you had mentioned that
(06:57):
and you've moved betweenpermanent CEO roles and interim
leadership roles throughout yourcareer, and we don't really see
interim roles here in the USthat much.
It's usually between leadersthat you'll have an interim
person, maybe a board memberwill step in, or maybe you'll
(07:17):
have someone from the team stepin while they're looking for the
next CEO.
But I think it's a little bitdifferent in Europe in terms of
how they approach interim roles.
I'm curious why focus on thoseroles these days?
What does it take to succeed ininterim executive roles and how
(07:39):
is it different than permanentroles, at least in Europe?
Petra Deuter (07:42):
That's actually a very good question.
In Europe interim management orexecutive interim management is.
Is thriving.
It's especially in the Germanspeaking countries in
Scandinavia and the uk it's a,full fledged profession, so to
speak.
And so basically interim andboard roles are such a natural
(08:03):
fit for the experience I'vebuilt over the years.
What I also particularly loveabout it is that they're not
about corporate politics, whichcan be really stifling.
Interim roles are about clearmis missions with tangible goals
and outcomes.
So the assignments for me, theyrange from exciting hospitality
(08:24):
startups, turnaround of anintegrated resort, for example,
and or building a new brand toan m and a mission.
And they were intensetransformational, and I had to
be very focused doing them.
So I often step into theseexecutive level roles during
times of change.
(08:44):
It could be launching a startup,managing a crisis, restructuring
an organization, or steering asale.
It's all about momentum anddelivering results under
pressure.
And as an interim,C-E-M-A-C-E-O, you're usually
stepping into a situation wherethe company needs decisive
leadership right away.
And that's not only as a fillerbut also or an outgoing CEO or
(09:09):
any other position.
Here in Europe they bring instrategic experts in turbulent
times.
There's no, easing in, basicallywe have to hit the ground
running and make an impactquickly.
And so why have I done it?
I've had a decades long career.
I've had I built so muchexperience and knowhow how, and
(09:31):
that challenge, and intensityreally appeals to me, and I like
the diverse projects and all thedifferent companies.
The different cultures andteams.
And I guess I also appreciatethe flexibility I have with
interim work.
Overall.
It takes strong focus, as I saidand the ability to assess
situations and people quickly,stay thick skinned under
(09:54):
pressure, concentrate on themission, and manage these
demanding expectations fromboards and the owners, without
losing your focus.
Now board roles on the arebasically a bit different.
They're more strategic and againthey give me the chance to use
my global experience to helpshape company's direction and
(10:17):
advice and, and I can advisethem on, governance issues or
when they're scalinginternationally.
And my multilingual backgroundobviously also helps.
Understand and connect with thedifferent cultures that the
boards have.
That ability to bridge culturesand to see the big picture has
(10:37):
been a huge advantage for me inboth interim leadership and on
boards.
Most importantly, lan.
I'm especially passionate aboutadding a female and
international voice to bothexecutive interim and boards
globally.
Where diversity is still lackingas we know.
Lan Elliott (11:00):
Yeah.
I'm curious, how long does ainterim role generally last?
Petra Deuter (11:07):
Now, I would say, that it's anywhere from, I would
say six to nine months.
But sometimes it, it can also goup to 15 months.
When you look at what thebiggest difference really is
it's not the time of theassignment, compared to a
permanency o role.
(11:27):
The biggest difference reallycomes down to basically this
time issue.
But, you often, have to alsothere's no long onboarding, no,
let's just get to know thecompany.
You have to walk in, figure outwhat's going on and start fixing
it immediately.
And sometimes those fixes reallyaren't popular, one has to be
(11:48):
quite quite thick skinned.
But another difference betweenirregular.
CEO managing director in aninterim role, in my view, is the
mindset.
Mindset is another hugedifference.
Permanent CEOs, they have tobalance transformation, let's
say with stability.
(12:09):
Keep things moving forwardwithout shaking the foundation
too much.
Interim CEOs.
We're brought in for a specificobjective, and often that means
we're not there to blend in withthe existing company culture.
We're there to question it.
We do turnarounds, leadtransitions, launch new
businesses just like permanentCEOs.
(12:33):
But oftentimes, the companiesdon't have that expertise within
the firm.
And you have to be comfortablemaking tough calls.
The pressure and expectationsthat we have are certainly not
for everyone, and what we'verealized in Europe, and I'm not
sure how it is in the UnitedStates, but one frustration I've
(12:54):
seen is that basically companiesway, way too long sometimes
before bringing in an interimexpert, they hope things will
just get better on their own andby the time they, they call us.
Be it an experienced CEO orC-C-O-C-T-O or other, it's
(13:15):
almost too late.
If they brought in experiencedpeople like us, many crisis
could be avoided.
It's often intense, it's highpressure, but when it works,
it's incredibly rewarding.
In my case, I look back to quitea few missions I've had so far,
and I built new hospitalitybusinesses.
(13:37):
I helped build new resorts inthe Mediterranean.
I have done an m and a process.
I've so helped sell firms and Iwas really happy when I was able
to do that within a verylimited, timeframe and was able
to have the next buyer take off,take over all of the staff so
(13:59):
all the jobs were saved, andthat is a really great feeling.
Lan Elliott (14:03):
I love that.
I love how you lean intochallenges and find them
exhilarating.
And I think part of that is justhaving that mindset of I'm going
to go in and figure it out andlearn as I go and make quick
decisions.
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that.
And also the part of ensuringthat you're bringing women along
(14:24):
with you as best you can whenthe right opportunity presents
itself.
Absolutely.
Yes.
I wanted to switch gears becauseyou've been open about
experiencing ageism in thisarea.
And in Europe, it's quitetypical to have your age or your
birthdate on your cv, whereas wedon't typically have that in the
(14:46):
us could you share yourperspective on ageism?
How do you navigate it?
Petra Deuter (14:52):
That's so true that up until recently, one did
write on the CCBs how old, ourbirthdays and how many children
we have and things like this.
But then now in recent yearsthey have also dis it.
It's starting to disappear.
But listen, ageism is real andit's more common than we admit,
(15:13):
especially for women of mygeneration.
I've seen it globally land.
But in recent years workingacross German speaking countries
in the UK and all across Europe,it's been quite pronounced and
eye-opening.
Just an example, after my lastinterim CEO role in Germany,
which was very successful, I wastold quite openly by firms and
(15:39):
recruiters afterwards.
That my age and particularly mygender, were reasons I wasn't
moving forward for certain newopportunities.
I tell you, that's mind bogglingand not easy to hear.
But here's how I look at it.
Experience doesn't have anexpiration date.
In fact, it's one of the mostvaluable things we bring to the
(16:01):
table in leadership.
So I stay sharp, I stay curious,I stay informed, and I put my
energy into those networks andenvironments that value real
know-how proven results and theability to deliver.
Because those are timeless,aren't they?
Lan Elliott (16:18):
Absolutely.
And I do think wisdom, which ifyou think about it, knowledge
plus experience.
Can be wisdom.
Those are the kinds of thingsthat do get better over time.
Your ability to recognizepatterns, to have seen many
things in the past and be ableto see what's happening and
think, I've seen this before.
(16:40):
We've tried a couple things.
Those things didn't work.
We're gonna do it differentlythis time and you're not doing
things for the first time.
You're actually solving problemsbased on things you've seen
before.
So I think that can be a great.
Reason to hire someone with alot more experience, but it is
an issue.
There are no two ways about it.
(17:00):
Yes it is.
Let's talk about mentors andchampions, and we talk about
people who can give you adviceand wisdom.
How important is it to findmentors and champions in the
business world and how do you goabout it?
How have you had mentors orchampions advance your career?
Petra Deuter (17:21):
Very important question.
Basically, I wish I had mentorsearly on when I started many
moons ago.
That concept didn't exist forwomen in leadership.
At not at least not that I wasaware of until much later.
And then not even verywidespread.
I had no sounding board and Ihad to learn everything by trial
(17:46):
and error.
When I think about it, that'swhy I became a mentor for women
myself more than 20 years ago.
I saw how important it was tohelp other women find their
voice and navigate the maledominated industry in regards to
obtaining senior executiveroles, and it's still critical
today.
(18:08):
Luckily I've had a number ofchampions along the way, though
all male.
Who saw my potential andpresented me with opportunities
to advance my career.
They noticed my going the extramile and supported me.
I'm very grateful.
I took very opportunity I couldget to grow.
Basically, I said yes before thequestion was even asked, and I
(18:31):
learned on the jobs.
That's
Lan Elliott (18:34):
incredible.
Any advice for people who arelooking to find a mentor or a
champion?
Petra Deuter (18:40):
Be open and also look outside of our industry.
I think that's very it'scrucial, and be open also,
network.
And basically go up to peopleyou admire.
If you see someone you admire,be it within our industry or
outside of our industry.
(19:01):
Approach the person.
Most people who will, who youwill ask, will be very happy to
assist, to support and becomeyour mentor.
Wonderful advice
Lan Elliott (19:14):
along those lines is advocating for ourselves and
sometimes people have trouble.
Asking for what they want.
It might be a promotion or araise, or it might be getting on
that big project that could leadto great opportunity for you,
and not asking for thoseopportunities can hold people
(19:37):
back.
What advice do you have for ouraudience who's struggling to
find their voice?
What's the right way to ask forsomething?
Petra Deuter (19:47):
I say.
Start by knowing your worth andbe realistic, and that's not
always easy.
Many of us, especially women,experience imposter syndrome at
different points in our career,and I think it makes us second
guess our achievements andhesitate to speak up.
(20:10):
But here's what I've learned,clarity, experience, and
preparation are your bestallies.
When you want something, whetherit's a raise, a promotion, or a
new opportunity, don't ask forit.
Emotionally prepare, know whatyou've delivered, what value you
bring, and what outcomes you'vedriven, and also from which
(20:33):
mistakes you've learned.
I think that is so valuable alsoto, to understand and also to
bring forward, then practice,and state your case with calm
confidence.
One doesn't have to beaggressive.
Just be clear and rememberasking doesn't make you
difficult.
It shows healthy ambition andthat's how you build respect.
(20:56):
On the flip side, expressingentitlement I deserve or why
don't I have this yet, inparticular, if you do not yet
have experience and knowhow, itwill likely not get you the
desired result.
Finding your voice is a processanyhow.
And ultimately if you don't askthe answer is already.
No,
Lan Elliott (21:15):
that's true.
That was a great lesson Ilearned early on.
You gotta ask, but the courageto ask is a different thing.
I wanted to dive into theassertiveness, double bind,
which I've talked about a fewtimes on this.
Podcast.
Which women tend to navigate.
(21:35):
It's a bit of a tightrope whereif you're too nice, you're not
strong enough to be a goodleader, and if you're too direct
and confident, people don'tgenerally like that coming from
a woman, and so people don'tlike you and you don't have the
support in order to moveforward.
Could you talk a little bitabout how you balanced that?
(21:57):
Like me, you've allot been theonly woman in the room.
How do you navigate thattightrope of being strong and
kind and balance that?
Petra Deuter (22:09):
Absolutely.
That's been part of my entirecareer.
There's no sugar coating aboutthat.
From the early days right tonow, I noticed something the
same decisiveness, directnessand strategic clarity that
earned my male colleaguesrespect could be judged very
different.
(22:29):
When it came for me.
Sometimes it was labeled as toostrong sometimes, maybe several
times.
The truth is, regardless of whatI just mentioned.
I've never been someone whobeats around the bush.
I say what needs to be said, andI say it clearly.
I am straightforward and honestwith my teams, also in very
(22:53):
unpopular missions.
But I think over time, and yes,after a few setbacks along the
way I've learned that how youdeliver that message matters.
I started showing not onlyfeeling my genuine compassion, I
pair it with my directness.
(23:15):
And I think that completelychanged the way people receives
it.
They receive it.
It's not about watering down themessage it's about bringing
people with you and showing thatyou care, showing that you care.
And when you do that, you earntheir trust.
My teams always know exactlywhere I stand, and I think
that's a positive.
Lan Elliott (23:36):
I do think it's become much more popular to talk
about empathy as a keyleadership trait.
And I think maybe combiningthat, especially if you're a
direct person like the two of usare can be really helpful.
Especially if you're a womanwhere that expectation is you're
going to be able to dochallenging things, have hard
(23:58):
conversations.
Do it in a way, if you can showempathy.
Petra Deuter (24:03):
It's really interesting because on this
subject it's not that we've, wehaven't had the empathy along
the way.
It's potentially that we didn'tshow it for many years.
Women tried to emulate men inexecutive positions and they
often didn't show empathythemselves.
So I think that in many ways, weadapted to that and now it's
(24:26):
just the time where on bothsides, men and women, it's okay
and it's expected to showempathy.
Lan Elliott (24:34):
It's a really good point.
Times really have changed andleadership has evolved with it.
Let's talk about building highperforming teams.
Because.
In what you do, especially ininterim roles, you're stepping
into a situation and you have tovery quickly make sure you have
the right people in order to dowhatever that task is, and you
(24:56):
usually don't have a lot of timeto accomplish it.
So how do you approach buildinghigh performing teams, and is
there one thing that you lookfor when you're trying to put
together a team or interviewingcandidate?
Petra Deuter (25:11):
It's good if one has good people knowledge.
I think that really helps, andthat's something that you do
acquire over decades of working,especially in the hospitality
industry.
But whether I'm building a newteam from scratch or inheriting
one, I always start with thesame approach.
Get really clear on the goal.
(25:32):
Take time to truly listen andunderstand everybody and set
expectations very early.
From there.
Once again, it's all aboutbuilding trust and being honest
about what's working and whatisn't.
And a lot of times some of thefolks in the group will realize
that's maybe not something thatthey want to continue doing
themselves.
(25:52):
I think in today's world, strongteams are built on adaptability
and transparency too.
People need to feel safe tospeak up we one tries to create
that environment.
They need to know they'resupported.
And also, that once supportstheir growth, but you also have
to keep everyone focused on themission because when you have
(26:13):
the right people and the rightroles motivated and aligned,
that's when the magic happens.
As for what I look for in peoplewhether that's in, in interim
roles or in permanent ones, Iguess I like seeing initiative.
I'm drawn to those folks whostep up when the pressure's on
(26:34):
the, who go beyond their jobdescriptions and who deliver,
without being asked basicallywho gets things done.
And these are the people you canreally rely on.
And in high pressure situations,which I'm often in, they're the
point people who I then have inmy team, they're the heartbeat
of any performing highperforming team.
Lan Elliott (26:54):
Love that.
That's great.
Great thing to look for inpeople.
Alright.
We've come to my favoritequestion that I ask all of our
guests.
Which is, what advice would youhave for 22-year-old Petra if
you were to go back in time andshare a piece of advice with
her?
Petra Deuter (27:12):
That's seems so long ago, LAN mostly I'd say
don't waste energy sweating thesmall stuff.
Especially on things that youcan't control.
But there are also maybe twothings I wish I had known
earlier, decades ago.
(27:33):
First, once you move forward andyou step into leadership, don't
assume everybody around youthinks or works the same way you
do.
I'm naturally quick to adapt andembrace change, but not everyone
is wired that way.
So I learned over time to readthe room and to look in the rear
(27:55):
view mirror and to make sure theteams are with me and that I
haven't left anyone behind.
And I think that's, I shouldhave, yeah, I had, it would've
been good if I had known thatearlier when I got into
leadership.
And second, and I think this isvery important.
I would still encourage myselfto take bold risks, but I might
(28:15):
have done more due diligence onthe companies and organizations
I joined.
Some mismatches might have beenavoided and if I had taken more
time, let's say, to assesswhether their values truly
aligned with mine, that's not aregret.
It's a learning curve.
I think many of us go through,don't we?
Lan Elliott (28:34):
Yes, absolutely.
But that's part of the wisdomthat you gain in the years of
experience.
True.
But I do like also what you saidfirst, which is what I call the
platinum rule, which is treatpeople the way they need to be
treated, not necessarily the waythat you wanna be treated.
I know a lot of times when I wascoming up, they talked about the
(28:56):
golden rule and I had todiscover the hard way that
people didn't wanna be treatedthe way I wanted to be treated.
And learning that and learningwhat each person needed was
really the key to connecting.
Totally everybody.
Petra Deuter (29:09):
Everybody's an individual and everybody, people
also want to be manageddifferently.
They're not all the same, as yousay.
Yeah, absolutely.
Lan Elliott (29:19):
Petra, you've shared lots of great advice and
I've loved hearing the storiesof your leadership over the
years.
For our audience.
Who are watching or listening.
Our show is all about empoweringpersonal success.
Do you have one final nugget forour audience who are looking to
(29:39):
advance their careers?
Petra Deuter (29:41):
Maybe that life is going to throw lots of
challenges at you.
Some of them will feelcompletely overwhelming in the
moment, but you'll get throughthem.
I would say resilience isn'tsomething you're just born with.
It's something you build littleby little every time you pick
yourself up.
Even in the chaos, trust thatyou'll find your footing.
(30:04):
Those moments are shaping youinto someone stronger, wiser, as
we just said, and far moreresourceful than you ever
imagined, but mostly staycurious, stay adaptable.
The world is moving fast, andthe people who thrive in my view
today, are the ones who leaninto change instead of resisting
it.
And remember your career doesn'thave to be straight, a straight
(30:26):
line to be a success.
I look at mine, some of the mostfulfilling careers come from
taking the scenic route, detoursand all.
Lan Elliott (30:40):
I love that.
Thank you, Petra, for thiswonderful interview.
I've so enjoyed ourconversation.
Every time I talk with you, Ireally learn something.
Thank you very much,
Petra Deuter (30:48):
Len.
It was
Lan Elliott (30:49):
my pleasure.
Thank you for sharing yourwisdom with our audience and for
our audience.
If you've enjoyed this interviewwith Petra, I hope you'll go to
our website to find many moreinterviews with hospitality
industry leaders, and ourwebsite is its personal
stories.com.
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to its Personal Stories, a
hospitality podcast.
My name is Lan Elliot on behalfof its personal stories.
And today, really happy to havePetra Deuter, who is global
board director and interim CEOand spends most of her time in
Europe.
And it's just a different way ofdoing business.
(00:22):
So I'm thrilled to have Petrajoin us, share her perspective.
Welcome Petra.
Lovely to be here.
Lan great to see you.
We've talked in the past and I'min so inspired by your journey.
Could you share a bit about yourcareer journey, some of the
pivotal points and what youthink were critical to your
(00:46):
success?
Petra Deuter (00:47):
So looking back, I feel that my career has had a
lot of inflection points.
Change and reinvention havereally been the constant, never
been one to sit in a comfortzone.
So I've often been the first inroles launching something new or
leading a transformation,whether that was reviving a
(01:10):
struggling business or steeringthrough a crisis many moons ago
I started, in travel andhospitality with Lufthansa Cargo
in my hometown of Chicago.
As an admin or a secretary.
We called ourselves to the cargomanager at the time and I worked
my way up while also going touniversity at the same time at
(01:32):
night to get my degree ininternational business.
And once I had that, I movedover to the passenger side of
the airline and basically.
Built what became a fantastic 15year career in the airline
industry.
I think of one major turningpoint.
It was when I was promoted to myfirst management role in New
(01:56):
York.
It was Lufthansa's first, veryfirst star alliance manager for
North America right when theStar Alliance launched with
United and SAS and, that roleopened international doors,
honestly, and set the stage forwhat became my truly global
career.
And then just two years later, Iwas appointed Lufthansa's first
(02:20):
female managing director forSouth America, based in Buenos
Aires overseeing, let's say 13offices in four countries.
And that was, I have to say,extremely exciting at the time,
but also incredibly challenging.
New region, new culture, newlanguage and a major economic
(02:45):
crisis in Argentina in 2000 and2001, which you may remember
followed by September 11th.
And at the time I didn't have asingle peer who looked like me,
LAN.
There were no other femaleairline executives.
Several years later, I made Ithink, a big pivot, if not the
(03:07):
biggest one so far.
Moving back to the US andfounding my own contemporary art
and antique gallery in Chicago.
Personal passion of mine.
In a way that path then led meinto the hotel industry in
Europe.
I moved from Chicago to Germanyback to Europe, and joined Acor
(03:29):
as their global VP of sales,marketing and distribution for
300 plus German hotels.
So I basically moved from theairline industry via an art
gallery into the hotel business.
And then I went on from AUR tohold a number of executive roles
for other firms, includinginterim and startup positions in
(03:51):
hotels and real estate acrossEurope.
That includes having worked inPrague, in Marbella, in
Florence, Italy and so on, andMalta.
And I was then the op, the headof operations and asset
management with l and r Hotels.
In London managing theirMediterranean assets.
So one of Europe's major privateinvestment firms.
(04:14):
So yes, change andtransformation are what I thrive
on.
Each shift forced me basicallyto adapt and grow in new ways.
Lan Elliott (04:27):
Yeah, I think it's a great thing when you're able
to jump into the middle ofsomething and have that
confidence to, to say.
I'll figure out how to drivethis train while it's moving and
we'll figure it out and getgoing and accelerate.
And I think that is a greatskill to have the confidence to
say yes to those kinds ofopportunities and then also get
(04:50):
in there and figure it out andnot be afraid.
Petra Deuter (04:52):
Just speaking of, what the success factors,
actually were, if I think back Ithink the biggest factor has
been my willingness, as yousaid, you, as you said, to step
outside my comfort zone and takerisks, whether that meant moving
to a new country, learninganother language, or taking on a
role I wasn't really fully readyfor, many times I said yes to
(05:13):
opportunities that scared me.
And then had to learn incrediblyfast on the job.
Wasn't about being the smartestby any means, the most
experience or the most popularin the room.
It was about being resilient,resourceful, and figuring things
out as I went along, and I'vemade mistakes, plenty of them,
but I pulled myself up and keptgoing.
(05:36):
And I think also that living ineight countries, and as I told
you before and working in morethan 25.
Has also shaped the way I lead.
That cross-cultural experiencehelps you navigate complexity
and differences in a way I thinkno classroom can teach you.
And if I think of that mostdefining early experience in
(05:58):
Argentina when I became, thefirst female managing director
for South America duringSeptember 11th.
That required constant quickdecision making, creative cost
cutting, and all thatcommunication I had to do with
stakeholders in all directdirections.
I think that period taught meresilience in a way nothing else
(06:20):
could.
Diving in there, managing allthe issues that I had never done
before it's that resiliencecombined with the ability to
solve problems quickly underpressure that has carried me.
Through until today.
Lan Elliott (06:35):
Yeah.
I think resilience is such agreat theme and I think all
leaders need that, butespecially I think in the
hospitality and travel businesswhere we are so prone to
downturns resilience I think isextremely important in our
industry.
I wanna touch on interim rolesbecause you had mentioned that
(06:57):
and you've moved betweenpermanent CEO roles and interim
leadership roles throughout yourcareer, and we don't really see
interim roles here in the USthat much.
It's usually between leadersthat you'll have an interim
person, maybe a board memberwill step in, or maybe you'll
(07:17):
have someone from the team stepin while they're looking for the
next CEO.
But I think it's a little bitdifferent in Europe in terms of
how they approach interim roles.
I'm curious why focus on thoseroles these days?
What does it take to succeed ininterim executive roles and how
(07:39):
is it different than permanentroles, at least in Europe?
Petra Deuter (07:42):
That's actually a very good question.
In Europe interim management orexecutive interim management is.
Is thriving.
It's especially in the Germanspeaking countries in
Scandinavia and the uk it's a,full fledged profession, so to
speak.
And so basically interim andboard roles are such a natural
(08:03):
fit for the experience I'vebuilt over the years.
What I also particularly loveabout it is that they're not
about corporate politics, whichcan be really stifling.
Interim roles are about clearmis missions with tangible goals
and outcomes.
So the assignments for me, theyrange from exciting hospitality
(08:24):
startups, turnaround of anintegrated resort, for example,
and or building a new brand toan m and a mission.
And they were intensetransformational, and I had to
be very focused doing them.
So I often step into theseexecutive level roles during
times of change.
(08:44):
It could be launching a startup,managing a crisis, restructuring
an organization, or steering asale.
It's all about momentum anddelivering results under
pressure.
And as an interim,C-E-M-A-C-E-O, you're usually
stepping into a situation wherethe company needs decisive
leadership right away.
And that's not only as a fillerbut also or an outgoing CEO or
(09:09):
any other position.
Here in Europe they bring instrategic experts in turbulent
times.
There's no, easing in, basicallywe have to hit the ground
running and make an impactquickly.
And so why have I done it?
I've had a decades long career.
I've had I built so muchexperience and knowhow how, and
(09:31):
that challenge, and intensityreally appeals to me, and I like
the diverse projects and all thedifferent companies.
The different cultures andteams.
And I guess I also appreciatethe flexibility I have with
interim work.
Overall.
It takes strong focus, as I saidand the ability to assess
situations and people quickly,stay thick skinned under
(09:54):
pressure, concentrate on themission, and manage these
demanding expectations fromboards and the owners, without
losing your focus.
Now board roles on the arebasically a bit different.
They're more strategic and againthey give me the chance to use
my global experience to helpshape company's direction and
(10:17):
advice and, and I can advisethem on, governance issues or
when they're scalinginternationally.
And my multilingual backgroundobviously also helps.
Understand and connect with thedifferent cultures that the
boards have.
That ability to bridge culturesand to see the big picture has
(10:37):
been a huge advantage for me inboth interim leadership and on
boards.
Most importantly, lan.
I'm especially passionate aboutadding a female and
international voice to bothexecutive interim and boards
globally.
Where diversity is still lackingas we know.
Lan Elliott (11:00):
Yeah.
I'm curious, how long does ainterim role generally last?
Petra Deuter (11:07):
Now, I would say, that it's anywhere from, I would
say six to nine months.
But sometimes it, it can also goup to 15 months.
When you look at what thebiggest difference really is
it's not the time of theassignment, compared to a
permanency o role.
(11:27):
The biggest difference reallycomes down to basically this
time issue.
But, you often, have to alsothere's no long onboarding, no,
let's just get to know thecompany.
You have to walk in, figure outwhat's going on and start fixing
it immediately.
And sometimes those fixes reallyaren't popular, one has to be
(11:48):
quite quite thick skinned.
But another difference betweenirregular.
CEO managing director in aninterim role, in my view, is the
mindset.
Mindset is another hugedifference.
Permanent CEOs, they have tobalance transformation, let's
say with stability.
(12:09):
Keep things moving forwardwithout shaking the foundation
too much.
Interim CEOs.
We're brought in for a specificobjective, and often that means
we're not there to blend in withthe existing company culture.
We're there to question it.
We do turnarounds, leadtransitions, launch new
businesses just like permanentCEOs.
(12:33):
But oftentimes, the companiesdon't have that expertise within
the firm.
And you have to be comfortablemaking tough calls.
The pressure and expectationsthat we have are certainly not
for everyone, and what we'verealized in Europe, and I'm not
sure how it is in the UnitedStates, but one frustration I've
(12:54):
seen is that basically companiesway, way too long sometimes
before bringing in an interimexpert, they hope things will
just get better on their own andby the time they, they call us.
Be it an experienced CEO orC-C-O-C-T-O or other, it's
(13:15):
almost too late.
If they brought in experiencedpeople like us, many crisis
could be avoided.
It's often intense, it's highpressure, but when it works,
it's incredibly rewarding.
In my case, I look back to quitea few missions I've had so far,
and I built new hospitalitybusinesses.
(13:37):
I helped build new resorts inthe Mediterranean.
I have done an m and a process.
I've so helped sell firms and Iwas really happy when I was able
to do that within a verylimited, timeframe and was able
to have the next buyer take off,take over all of the staff so
(13:59):
all the jobs were saved, andthat is a really great feeling.
Lan Elliott (14:03):
I love that.
I love how you lean intochallenges and find them
exhilarating.
And I think part of that is justhaving that mindset of I'm going
to go in and figure it out andlearn as I go and make quick
decisions.
Yeah, absolutely.
I love that.
And also the part of ensuringthat you're bringing women along
(14:24):
with you as best you can whenthe right opportunity presents
itself.
Absolutely.
Yes.
I wanted to switch gears becauseyou've been open about
experiencing ageism in thisarea.
And in Europe, it's quitetypical to have your age or your
birthdate on your cv, whereas wedon't typically have that in the
(14:46):
us could you share yourperspective on ageism?
How do you navigate it?
Petra Deuter (14:52):
That's so true that up until recently, one did
write on the CCBs how old, ourbirthdays and how many children
we have and things like this.
But then now in recent yearsthey have also dis it.
It's starting to disappear.
But listen, ageism is real andit's more common than we admit,
(15:13):
especially for women of mygeneration.
I've seen it globally land.
But in recent years workingacross German speaking countries
in the UK and all across Europe,it's been quite pronounced and
eye-opening.
Just an example, after my lastinterim CEO role in Germany,
which was very successful, I wastold quite openly by firms and
(15:39):
recruiters afterwards.
That my age and particularly mygender, were reasons I wasn't
moving forward for certain newopportunities.
I tell you, that's mind bogglingand not easy to hear.
But here's how I look at it.
Experience doesn't have anexpiration date.
In fact, it's one of the mostvaluable things we bring to the
(16:01):
table in leadership.
So I stay sharp, I stay curious,I stay informed, and I put my
energy into those networks andenvironments that value real
know-how proven results and theability to deliver.
Because those are timeless,aren't they?
Lan Elliott (16:18):
Absolutely.
And I do think wisdom, which ifyou think about it, knowledge
plus experience.
Can be wisdom.
Those are the kinds of thingsthat do get better over time.
Your ability to recognizepatterns, to have seen many
things in the past and be ableto see what's happening and
think, I've seen this before.
(16:40):
We've tried a couple things.
Those things didn't work.
We're gonna do it differentlythis time and you're not doing
things for the first time.
You're actually solving problemsbased on things you've seen
before.
So I think that can be a great.
Reason to hire someone with alot more experience, but it is
an issue.
There are no two ways about it.
(17:00):
Yes it is.
Let's talk about mentors andchampions, and we talk about
people who can give you adviceand wisdom.
How important is it to findmentors and champions in the
business world and how do you goabout it?
How have you had mentors orchampions advance your career?
Petra Deuter (17:21):
Very important question.
Basically, I wish I had mentorsearly on when I started many
moons ago.
That concept didn't exist forwomen in leadership.
At not at least not that I wasaware of until much later.
And then not even verywidespread.
I had no sounding board and Ihad to learn everything by trial
(17:46):
and error.
When I think about it, that'swhy I became a mentor for women
myself more than 20 years ago.
I saw how important it was tohelp other women find their
voice and navigate the maledominated industry in regards to
obtaining senior executiveroles, and it's still critical
today.
(18:08):
Luckily I've had a number ofchampions along the way, though
all male.
Who saw my potential andpresented me with opportunities
to advance my career.
They noticed my going the extramile and supported me.
I'm very grateful.
I took very opportunity I couldget to grow.
Basically, I said yes before thequestion was even asked, and I
(18:31):
learned on the jobs.
That's
Lan Elliott (18:34):
incredible.
Any advice for people who arelooking to find a mentor or a
champion?
Petra Deuter (18:40):
Be open and also look outside of our industry.
I think that's very it'scrucial, and be open also,
network.
And basically go up to peopleyou admire.
If you see someone you admire,be it within our industry or
outside of our industry.
(19:01):
Approach the person.
Most people who will, who youwill ask, will be very happy to
assist, to support and becomeyour mentor.
Wonderful advice
Lan Elliott (19:14):
along those lines is advocating for ourselves and
sometimes people have trouble.
Asking for what they want.
It might be a promotion or araise, or it might be getting on
that big project that could leadto great opportunity for you,
and not asking for thoseopportunities can hold people
(19:37):
back.
What advice do you have for ouraudience who's struggling to
find their voice?
What's the right way to ask forsomething?
Petra Deuter (19:47):
I say.
Start by knowing your worth andbe realistic, and that's not
always easy.
Many of us, especially women,experience imposter syndrome at
different points in our career,and I think it makes us second
guess our achievements andhesitate to speak up.
(20:10):
But here's what I've learned,clarity, experience, and
preparation are your bestallies.
When you want something, whetherit's a raise, a promotion, or a
new opportunity, don't ask forit.
Emotionally prepare, know whatyou've delivered, what value you
bring, and what outcomes you'vedriven, and also from which
(20:33):
mistakes you've learned.
I think that is so valuable alsoto, to understand and also to
bring forward, then practice,and state your case with calm
confidence.
One doesn't have to beaggressive.
Just be clear and rememberasking doesn't make you
difficult.
It shows healthy ambition andthat's how you build respect.
(20:56):
On the flip side, expressingentitlement I deserve or why
don't I have this yet, inparticular, if you do not yet
have experience and knowhow, itwill likely not get you the
desired result.
Finding your voice is a processanyhow.
And ultimately if you don't askthe answer is already.
No,
Lan Elliott (21:15):
that's true.
That was a great lesson Ilearned early on.
You gotta ask, but the courageto ask is a different thing.
I wanted to dive into theassertiveness, double bind,
which I've talked about a fewtimes on this.
Podcast.
Which women tend to navigate.
(21:35):
It's a bit of a tightrope whereif you're too nice, you're not
strong enough to be a goodleader, and if you're too direct
and confident, people don'tgenerally like that coming from
a woman, and so people don'tlike you and you don't have the
support in order to moveforward.
Could you talk a little bitabout how you balanced that?
(21:57):
Like me, you've allot been theonly woman in the room.
How do you navigate thattightrope of being strong and
kind and balance that?
Petra Deuter (22:09):
Absolutely.
That's been part of my entirecareer.
There's no sugar coating aboutthat.
From the early days right tonow, I noticed something the
same decisiveness, directnessand strategic clarity that
earned my male colleaguesrespect could be judged very
different.
(22:29):
When it came for me.
Sometimes it was labeled as toostrong sometimes, maybe several
times.
The truth is, regardless of whatI just mentioned.
I've never been someone whobeats around the bush.
I say what needs to be said, andI say it clearly.
I am straightforward and honestwith my teams, also in very
(22:53):
unpopular missions.
But I think over time, and yes,after a few setbacks along the
way I've learned that how youdeliver that message matters.
I started showing not onlyfeeling my genuine compassion, I
pair it with my directness.
(23:15):
And I think that completelychanged the way people receives
it.
They receive it.
It's not about watering down themessage it's about bringing
people with you and showing thatyou care, showing that you care.
And when you do that, you earntheir trust.
My teams always know exactlywhere I stand, and I think
that's a positive.
Lan Elliott (23:36):
I do think it's become much more popular to talk
about empathy as a keyleadership trait.
And I think maybe combiningthat, especially if you're a
direct person like the two of usare can be really helpful.
Especially if you're a womanwhere that expectation is you're
going to be able to dochallenging things, have hard
(23:58):
conversations.
Do it in a way, if you can showempathy.
Petra Deuter (24:03):
It's really interesting because on this
subject it's not that we've, wehaven't had the empathy along
the way.
It's potentially that we didn'tshow it for many years.
Women tried to emulate men inexecutive positions and they
often didn't show empathythemselves.
So I think that in many ways, weadapted to that and now it's
(24:26):
just the time where on bothsides, men and women, it's okay
and it's expected to showempathy.
Lan Elliott (24:34):
It's a really good point.
Times really have changed andleadership has evolved with it.
Let's talk about building highperforming teams.
Because.
In what you do, especially ininterim roles, you're stepping
into a situation and you have tovery quickly make sure you have
the right people in order to dowhatever that task is, and you
(24:56):
usually don't have a lot of timeto accomplish it.
So how do you approach buildinghigh performing teams, and is
there one thing that you lookfor when you're trying to put
together a team or interviewingcandidate?
Petra Deuter (25:11):
It's good if one has good people knowledge.
I think that really helps, andthat's something that you do
acquire over decades of working,especially in the hospitality
industry.
But whether I'm building a newteam from scratch or inheriting
one, I always start with thesame approach.
Get really clear on the goal.
(25:32):
Take time to truly listen andunderstand everybody and set
expectations very early.
From there.
Once again, it's all aboutbuilding trust and being honest
about what's working and whatisn't.
And a lot of times some of thefolks in the group will realize
that's maybe not something thatthey want to continue doing
themselves.
(25:52):
I think in today's world, strongteams are built on adaptability
and transparency too.
People need to feel safe tospeak up we one tries to create
that environment.
They need to know they'resupported.
And also, that once supportstheir growth, but you also have
to keep everyone focused on themission because when you have
(26:13):
the right people and the rightroles motivated and aligned,
that's when the magic happens.
As for what I look for in peoplewhether that's in, in interim
roles or in permanent ones, Iguess I like seeing initiative.
I'm drawn to those folks whostep up when the pressure's on
(26:34):
the, who go beyond their jobdescriptions and who deliver,
without being asked basicallywho gets things done.
And these are the people you canreally rely on.
And in high pressure situations,which I'm often in, they're the
point people who I then have inmy team, they're the heartbeat
of any performing highperforming team.
Lan Elliott (26:54):
Love that.
That's great.
Great thing to look for inpeople.
Alright.
We've come to my favoritequestion that I ask all of our
guests.
Which is, what advice would youhave for 22-year-old Petra if
you were to go back in time andshare a piece of advice with
her?
Petra Deuter (27:12):
That's seems so long ago, LAN mostly I'd say
don't waste energy sweating thesmall stuff.
Especially on things that youcan't control.
But there are also maybe twothings I wish I had known
earlier, decades ago.
(27:33):
First, once you move forward andyou step into leadership, don't
assume everybody around youthinks or works the same way you
do.
I'm naturally quick to adapt andembrace change, but not everyone
is wired that way.
So I learned over time to readthe room and to look in the rear
(27:55):
view mirror and to make sure theteams are with me and that I
haven't left anyone behind.
And I think that's, I shouldhave, yeah, I had, it would've
been good if I had known thatearlier when I got into
leadership.
And second, and I think this isvery important.
I would still encourage myselfto take bold risks, but I might
(28:15):
have done more due diligence onthe companies and organizations
I joined.
Some mismatches might have beenavoided and if I had taken more
time, let's say, to assesswhether their values truly
aligned with mine, that's not aregret.
It's a learning curve.
I think many of us go through,don't we?
Lan Elliott (28:34):
Yes, absolutely.
But that's part of the wisdomthat you gain in the years of
experience.
True.
But I do like also what you saidfirst, which is what I call the
platinum rule, which is treatpeople the way they need to be
treated, not necessarily the waythat you wanna be treated.
I know a lot of times when I wascoming up, they talked about the
(28:56):
golden rule and I had todiscover the hard way that
people didn't wanna be treatedthe way I wanted to be treated.
And learning that and learningwhat each person needed was
really the key to connecting.
Totally everybody.
Petra Deuter (29:09):
Everybody's an individual and everybody, people
also want to be manageddifferently.
They're not all the same, as yousay.
Yeah, absolutely.
Lan Elliott (29:19):
Petra, you've shared lots of great advice and
I've loved hearing the storiesof your leadership over the
years.
For our audience.
Who are watching or listening.
Our show is all about empoweringpersonal success.
Do you have one final nugget forour audience who are looking to
(29:39):
advance their careers?
Petra Deuter (29:41):
Maybe that life is going to throw lots of
challenges at you.
Some of them will feelcompletely overwhelming in the
moment, but you'll get throughthem.
I would say resilience isn'tsomething you're just born with.
It's something you build littleby little every time you pick
yourself up.
Even in the chaos, trust thatyou'll find your footing.
(30:04):
Those moments are shaping youinto someone stronger, wiser, as
we just said, and far moreresourceful than you ever
imagined, but mostly staycurious, stay adaptable.
The world is moving fast, andthe people who thrive in my view
today, are the ones who leaninto change instead of resisting
it.
And remember your career doesn'thave to be straight, a straight
(30:26):
line to be a success.
I look at mine, some of the mostfulfilling careers come from
taking the scenic route, detoursand all.
Lan Elliott (30:40):
I love that.
Thank you, Petra, for thiswonderful interview.
I've so enjoyed ourconversation.
Every time I talk with you, Ireally learn something.
Thank you very much,
Petra Deuter (30:48):
Len.
It was
Lan Elliott (30:49):
my pleasure.
Thank you for sharing yourwisdom with our audience and for
our audience.
If you've enjoyed this interviewwith Petra, I hope you'll go to
our website to find many moreinterviews with hospitality
industry leaders, and ourwebsite is its personal
stories.com.
Thank you.
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