August 14, 2025 • 54 mins
Have you ever thought about whether you're experiencing the "good old days" of your career right now? That question frames this week's exploration of workplace dynamics, leadership expectations, and what makes HR professionals stay or leave their roles.
The conversation kicks off with Warren and CeeCee sharing the chaos of packed schedules and the surprising speed at which the year is passing. CeeCee reveals insights about her company's new podcast initiative focused on generative AI—highlighting how audio content has become a powerful learning delivery method that meets employees where they are. This innovative approach represents a shift in how companies engage their workforce and deliver professional development.
The hosts then dive into a hilariously awkward workplace situation at Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop headquarters, where bathroom etiquette became a company-wide conversation. This springboards into a deeper discussion about leadership communication styles and how executive behavior sets the tone for organizational culture. When leaders discourage even simple acknowledgments like "thanks" or discourage feedback, what message does that send?
At the heart of the episode is a thoughtful breakdown of "24 Reasons Why HR Quits," examining how HR professionals often face impossible expectations: fix toxic cultures without authority, implement changes without resources, and take the blame while receiving none of the credit. Warren and Cece offer candid perspectives on these challenges, sharing personal experiences that illustrate the very real frustrations HR faces when positioned as scapegoats rather than strategic partners.
The most poignant segment comes when both hosts reflect on their career journeys and realize they may be experiencing their "good old days" right now. This rare moment of professional contentment—working with brilliant colleagues, feeling valued and recognized, and doing meaningful work—stands in stark contrast to past experiences where effort went unacknowledged or where colleagues deliberately made work appear more difficult than it was.
Whether you're in HR or any professional role, this episode offers valuable perspective on recognizing and appreciating positive work environments, understanding what truly drives employee satisfaction, and knowing when you've found your professional home.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andew Quilpa (00:02):
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Warren (00:43):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals
who want to help you getthrough the workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren.
CeeCee (00:53):
I'm Cece.
Warren (00:54):
Yay, we're just talking.
It feels like it's been forever, but it's been our regular two
weeks.
I don't know why, it feels,like it's been so long since we
last talked, but just so muchgoing on in work in the world
and everything else like that.
It's just like and here we are.
We're recording this on August12th.
(01:16):
It's the middle of August.
The summer is pretty much done.
CeeCee (01:20):
I don't like it.
Warren (01:21):
I don't like it.
CeeCee (01:23):
I was telling Warren off air that my company does fiscal
calendars and my managerreminded me yesterday.
She's like oh yeah, somemid-year reviews are in
September and I'm like Septemberis a million years away and I
was like, oh no, it's next month, so I got to get on it.
Warren (01:39):
Yeah, yeah, it's just so crazy how much time is flying
in my just not keeping up withwhat the date is.
We're having our financialadvisors are coming to the
office actually this Thursdayand I forgot it was this
Thursday and they were booking.
(01:59):
You know you could do, throughsignupgeniuscom, a slot to go
meet with them individually.
They'll talk to youindividually, no cost.
We do that at least once a year.
But the financial advisor youcall them, they'll talk your ear
off any, any day.
But just Monday our slotsfilled up and somebody asked for
more slots and it was like, ohyeah, I was thinking that we're
having it on the 14th, the daythis podcast launches, and I'm
(02:23):
like, oh, that's so far away.
And then, as I'm sending theemail, I'm like, oh, that's this
upcoming Thursday.
And I'm like, sorry for theshort notice, but can you add us
a few more slots in theseappointments?
We have more people that wantto participate in that.
And they did.
They were great.
It's just wow.
CeeCee (02:43):
Time is crazy.
That's crazy, I know.
I'm just like.
I just feel like this year hasflown by so quickly.
We're like close to 2026 andI'm very unsettled by that.
Oh, why?
Warren (02:53):
Why would you be unsettled?
CeeCee (02:56):
It's just going so fast.
Oh okay, it's going so fast.
Warren (02:59):
Bad happening in 2026.
I put something on my personalcalendar besides a doctor's
appointment on in January of 26already.
I'm like it's crazy, Crazy.
CeeCee (03:10):
So I don't know about you, but this week I have
appointment.
I have an appointment every daythis week.
It's like either doctor'sappointment for me, I have a
checkup for the baby, and thecat has to go back for a recheck
, because my, our cat was in the.
My gosh, I didn't happen lastweek.
Our cat was sick and we had totake her to the the vet, and she
stayed overnight and that costus like a thousand dollars and
(03:33):
she ended up having a uti and ohmy god.
But anyway, like that's part ofowning an animal, though, yes,
what are you gonna do?
But yeah, so like this week I'mjust back to back to back, like
trying to juggle work meetings,but then also like trying to
sneak out of the house for adoctor's appointment.
Trying, it's just.
It's just a long weekend.
Warren (03:53):
Thankfully we don't have anything this weekend, so I
like just want to sit in frontof the cat, in front of the tv
and veg on the couch I'm stillwaiting for that weekend for
myself, but I I don't havethat's not my this week is
appointments, but Septembersometime I have a dentist
appointment, a follow-up for mysurgery appointment, and things
like that.
I'm just thinking how crazyeverything is.
(04:16):
And I'm actually going to gosee my dermatologist again.
Is why not?
I've met my deductible andout-of-pocket max, so hey, let's
go.
Might as well go.
Let's go to the dermatologist.
I'm trying to get thatappointment.
She's so booked up though I'mbasically going to be on the
wait list for cancellation.
But yeah, it's crazy out there.
CeeCee (04:37):
Crazy Other than that my podcast for work launched, oh
yes, so that was exciting I'mdoing for those who don't know
I'm doing, I'm an L&D, so I workon the L&OD team, which is
learning and org development,and we launched a podcast
(04:58):
because my company is very intothe use of generative AI and
believes it is a skill thateveryone should be well-versed
in, no matter what role thatyou're in.
So I'm doing a podcast on thebest, like how to use it, and
you know, every podcast mydifferent guests is someone from
the organization who's either asuper user or, like you know,
the chief CH I'm sorry, thechief, the head of IT, or who
else like someone from council,but it's interesting
(05:21):
conversations and we've neverused that medium of you know
learning and it's really wellreceived.
So, if no one has done it yet,I think it's a really good
delivery method for learning,especially HR business partner.
And she said she listened to mywork podcast and then she was
(05:48):
like it was very different fromyou know, and I started laughing
because I was just like, yeah,I could imagine me showing to
that podcast like I talk on here, like that would last for like
two seconds.
Warren (06:01):
No F-bombs in the work.
One Come on, we've got to spicethat up.
CeeCee (06:04):
No F-bombs in the work.
One, come on, we've got tospice that up.
Warren (06:07):
No F-bombs, oh man, so yeah, but that's really cool.
I really admire when companiesdo things like yours, are doing
that to further engage and meetthe people where they are.
And if they're because as Iwalk around our office, I would
say more than half of the peoplehave their earbuds in and many
(06:29):
of them are listening topodcasts as I ask, hey, what you
listening to?
You know, I'm just curious whatyou're listening to.
And there's like all sorts ofpodcasts that mainly, it seems,
podcasts they're listening to.
But they're listening to allsorts of the stuff and it's and
they're multitasking, I meanit's, it's more probably noise
in the background.
(06:50):
They're still getting theirwork done.
Just like I mentioned, I haveFood Network on at home.
Is my noise TV, my wife's?
Andew Quilpa (06:57):
is.
Warren (06:57):
Investigation.
Discovery Channel is her whitenoise.
CeeCee (07:00):
I'm Gilmore.
Warren (07:00):
Girls, gilmore Girls, oh gosh.
Aren't they bringing that back,or is there going to be?
Like a special reunion orsomething along like that I
think I saw on social media.
I don't.
CeeCee (07:14):
This is just me being on my soapbox.
Sometimes stories just need toend and we need to be okay with
that.
So I know they did the rebootin like 2016.
It was great.
I enjoyed it.
We do not need another reboot.
If anyone from the Amy ShermanPalladino camp is listening to
this, I would be interested inan Emily Gilmore prequel series
(07:35):
where we like focus on Emilywhen she meets Richard and all
that that I might be interestedin, but we're done with the
story.
Let it lie.
We don't have to rebooteverything and that is off my
soapbox.
Warren (07:49):
Well, rebooting.
You know how many times nowhave they rebooted Dexter and
I'm actually, I will say thiscurrent Dexter resurrection I'm
enjoying.
For the most part it's betterthan the beginnings one, the
origin one, when he was a kid.
And so I'm enjoying it, butit's yeah, it's something else.
(08:11):
Let's see.
One thing I want to try and dogoing forward is get our thank
yous early on, because so ourPatreon supporters may not make
it.
You know, like 80% of ourlisteners make it through like
85% of the podcasts, and I thinkwhen they start hearing us wind
(08:31):
it down.
people are okay, Next click andthings like that.
So I want to put the shout outsto Hallie, the original Jaded
HR rock star Michael and Billfor supporting us on Patreon.
You can, too, just follow theshow notes.
It's very much appreciated.
And also our thank you to theUnderschool Orchestra for use of
the theme song Devil the Deviland Andrew Kolpa who does the
(08:53):
intro.
So yeah, get those out of theway so people can get their
recognition early on, beforeeverybody starts hanging up on
us.
CeeCee (09:02):
I'm going to start saying one crazy thing at the
end of every episode, and you'lljust have to listen to the end
to hear it.
And it could be anything, whoknows?
Warren (09:09):
Now one podcast I listen to.
It's one of my favoritepodcasts.
They end their official episodeand then there's this like tone
and then they go on the hostthey're talking about.
It can be anything.
We've talked about the Italianrestaurant, they someone went to
last week and they just it's,it's pretty good, sometimes it's
(09:29):
related, sometimes it's justanything they talked about and
it's like another five, tenminutes.
I'd like that as well, but gosh, I was gonna say something else
based on what you said.
I forget squirrel, but anywayssquirrel.
Well, squirrel, but anywaysSquirrel.
That one.
Well, I found two stories todiscuss Disgust, disgust, oh,
(09:51):
yes, anyways To discuss.
The first one is from a sitecalled she Knows and the author
is Alice Kelly and this is fromJuly 31st.
And we've said any number oftimes you don't work in HR until
you've dealt with poop.
CeeCee (10:14):
I know HR Besties says something about that Poop and
porn.
Warren (10:17):
I think it was Jamie on HR.
CeeCee (10:18):
Besties has a poop story .
Warren (10:22):
If you're in HR and you don't have a poop story, you
haven't earned your badges yet.
That's true.
CeeCee (10:27):
By the way, really quick shout out to Jamie on the HR
Besties, because if anyonehasn't heard or listened, first
of all, they're fantastic, youshould listen to them.
Second of all, she has the mostinsane layoff story that I have
ever heard.
She's been laid off, she'slooking for a new role, but it
is a story of bad HR doing badHR and there are bad actors out
(10:53):
there and it makes me sad.
But you know, if you, if youknow of any really good HR roles
, send them to HR Bestie Jamie.
Warren (11:01):
Yeah, you know I'm a couple of weeks behind on my
podcast right now, but I did seeon social media a clip of them
talking about what had happenedand it's mainly Leah and Jamie
doing the talking in that clip.
I was like really, but it's badHR like that that gives the
(11:22):
true HR professionals who areout there busting their butt and
working hard.
They're the ones who give it abad name and especially spoiler
alert or whatever you want tosay if you're lying and
falsifying, creating falsifieddocuments or whatever you want
to say to that.
I was watching that clip.
It must have been on Instagramor something.
(11:42):
My jaw was just dropped likereally, you know really yeah.
CeeCee (11:50):
So if you haven't checked them out, go check them
out.
She'll give you the whole storyyeah, but here's the deal.
If you check out their podcastand you like it, you still have
to come back and still listen toour podcast.
Warren (11:59):
Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely.
And that's one thing I likeabout the podcast universe,
because there's so many podcastsout there and I don't think you
necessarily compete with otherpodcasts in which I went through
my list and I unsubscribed fromsome podcasts.
Now some of them are like theHustle Work Environment podcast,
(12:27):
which hasn't released anepisode since 2022.
And I guess Corporate PizzaParty hasn't released an episode
in like six months and I tookthose off my list.
I'll keep my eyes open to seeif they do put anything else out
.
But a couple of others I'vebeen adding them.
I added your Stupid Op stupidopinion based on your
recommendation right yeah, it's.
It's quite funny.
(12:48):
Now I know they've done somestories of locations in
cincinnati.
I'm waiting for them to do forus a location of somewhere I
might be familiar with.
They haven't done that quiteyet, so I live okay.
CeeCee (13:00):
So for those of you who don't know, your stupid opinion
is a podcast which is just thatthey read stupid opinions that
people leave on reviews and Ithink it speaks to my love of
and this is going to come offvery jaded, but I used to run
the what is it, the annualengagement surveys, and some of
(13:22):
my favorite things was to gothrough the comment because A
there's a lot of good stuff inthere and there's also a lot of
very unhinged things in thereand people will say the most
ridiculous stuff in there andit's confidential and we can't
see who's leaving what comments,but it's a hoot just seeing
what some people just leaveuncensored.
(13:45):
So if you're someone who loves agood engagement survey and
loves reading comments onsurveys, you should also go
listen to that podcast.
But I do live six minutes awayfrom episode one where they talk
about the worst Wendy's.
It's right down the street.
Oh, wow, yeah, anyway, it'sright down the street.
Warren (14:03):
Oh, wow, yeah I.
CeeCee (14:03):
Anyway.
Warren (14:05):
I like it, and then their adult toy or whatever
product that they do every week.
CeeCee (14:10):
The personal item of the week.
Warren (14:11):
Personal item of the week.
Oh my gosh.
There's been some where I'm likeyeah, exactly none of this
sounds enjoyable for anybody isthat's an actual product and and
a lot of them they're gettingon amazon.
They're not like going to someI know crazy snm online shop or
something like that.
They're, it's just amazon andI'm like, oh lordy.
(14:35):
But yeah, sometimes I get boredis the only downside about that
podcast.
They go awfully long, like wedo.
They're starting to read somany comments and so I sort of
yeah, okay, I got the gist ofthis place.
Let's get to the personal itemof the week, just to make myself
cringe a little.
CeeCee (14:54):
So anyhow, Anyway, I'm sorry I derailed you.
Warren (14:58):
Oh no, no it was a great derailment, but anyways,
Gwyneth Paltrow, she owns thatcompany Goop.
Ah yes, the poop, and that'snotorious for some of their very
special fragrances.
CeeCee (15:11):
Yes, yes, yes.
Warren (15:12):
Of their candles and such, but we won't get into that
here.
That can be saved for theirpersonal item of the week.
This article from she Knowsapparently Goop has some potty
problems at Goop and soapparently Gwyneth Paltrow sent
an email to the entire staff.
(15:33):
It says, quote found pee on atoilet seat at the office.
Someone tinkled.
Make sure to clean up afteryourself.
I'd appreciate it.
And I'm just like yeah, that,oh, that was not an email, that
was on the company's Slackchannel, anyways.
CeeCee (15:50):
Was it from Gwyneth or was it from corporate
communications that I need toknow?
We have our internal Slack, wehave Slack and I'm just laughing
because, like only certainpeople can do the all team
channel and that's likecorporate communications and
stuff.
But I'm like I'm wondering didit come from Gwyneth?
Yes, Did it have like her nameand her icon?
(16:12):
And it was like please wipe upafter your tinkles.
Warren (16:15):
If you tinkle and you sprinkle, be a sweetie, clean
the CD Gosh anyways.
But yeah, this is according tosomeone named Adele.
She wrote a biography onworking, I guess at Goop and
Gwyneth Paltrow, and goes on,but anyways, she goes on to say
that allegedly many who workexcuse me, she goes about the
(16:41):
behind the scenes of the companyand things like allegedly many
who quote work up the nerve togo into her office allegedly
experience impatience of anattitude.
Odell writes If an employeereplied to one of her emails
with thanks or on it, she'd tellthem not to send those emails
because they're a waste of time.
So now I've heard I don't knowif it was Steve Jobs or somebody
(17:04):
else was that hate?
And maybe it's no, I think it's.
Bezos actually hates thoseemails.
Yeah, I'm telling you what todo.
Just get it done, don't youknow?
Give me okay.
CeeCee (17:15):
No, thank you.
Yeah, no thank yous and thingslike that, but which is
interesting because I will sayone of like, early in my career,
one of the first initiativesthat like the team put out was
this whole.
What was it?
It was like these certainthings.
So it was like end on the fives.
So you didn't like you're beinghanded at like five till
whatever.
So you gave people a chance tolike go to the bathroom or
(17:37):
something.
And the other one was don'treply all and you don't need to
say thanks like we got it like.
So you don't have to like evenreply all and say thanks or this
was great, or blah, blah, blah.
It was just like mail, likejust we're just gonna do it
right, but honestly, like I missa nice thank you you can send
(17:58):
me.
Also, you can just confirm thatyou got it Like.
Oh, got it On it.
Warren (18:04):
Yeah, see, I like that.
I like I don't.
If my I have a whopping twoemployees under me and if I
shoot them something to do andthey don't reply, got it on it.
I trust they're going to do it.
So up to date, I don't have areason not to.
If situations changed and theygave me reason to say, hey, did
(18:29):
you get that last email orsomething, then that'd be a
thing.
But I would say 99 plus percentof the time I just hey, can you
knock this out for me realquick?
And next thing, I know it'sdone before I get a thank you or
anything like that.
But sometimes they do.
Yeah, I'll get that taken careof.
Let's see here.
Also in the book, odell writes,this hostile dynamic was subtle
(18:59):
but damaging within the companyand almost no one, the board
included, was willing to tellher no.
And that's a problem when youhave people who are just too
afraid to tell people no.
I mean, is Gwyneth Paltrow that?
I don't know.
CeeCee (19:21):
I don't know anything about her.
I don't, whatever.
This is just my personalperception.
She seems insufferable,honestly, like she just has that
.
Like her and Katy Perry, theyjust kind of seem like women who
drank too much of their ownKool-Aid and think a lot of
themselves, like and that I meanjust people in general women
(19:44):
who drank too much of their ownKool-Aid and think a lot of
themselves like, and that I meanjust people in general like
even.
You know, I don't know why Isaid two women, but they just
seem like two individuals who,like, just think very highly of
themselves and I don't havepatience for that in anybody,
Like if you take yourself tooseriously and you know your own
biggest fan in a veryegotistical way and assume that
everyone else believes the samething.
I just don't have patience forthat and that's what I feel
(20:05):
about.
I'm so sorry.
Warren (20:07):
No see, I don't know enough about Quinteth Paltrow.
I don't either, but she doesn'tseem like why would you?
I'm trying to think of somebodywho might intimidate me to the
point of like, oh no, no, but ifI'm working for you and you're
hiring me to do a job, sometimesthat job is to give you advice
hey, let's load, let's hit thebrakes here, let's rethink this,
(20:28):
or are we sure we're doing it?
This is what we want to bedoing, and things like that.
Or even just flat out, no.
I had a long discussion aboutexempt versus non-exempt with a
manager not that long ago, andof course, the manager wants
them to be exempt.
And I'm like no, and I wastrying to tell them.
(20:49):
I was giving them everyopportunity to convince me and
they never convinced me.
I said no, this person's hourly, but they're going to be
working a lot of overtime.
Okay, well, they'll make a lotof overtime then.
Good for them.
Yeah, it's going to be workinga lot of overtime.
Okay, well, they'll make a lotof overtime then.
Go for that, yeah, it's going tobe a lot of travel involved.
That's why they're going tohave so much overtime.
And I'm like you know youhaven't convinced me and I'm not
(21:12):
hard to convince and I likefinding I'm comfortable working
in some gray areas as long as Ifeel that my, my, I feel pretty
strong.
Okay, we're okay.
You know it may not beabsolutely perfect, but we're,
we're okay and I think, being ina lot of leadership roles, you
(21:33):
have to learn to accept somegray areas.
But sometimes no is no, nomeans no.
(21:55):
Sometimes I listen to weirdpodcasts I've never heard of
before when he's on them andthings like that and stuff like
that.
So just because he thinksdifferently and he does things
differently and I like that, Ilike hearing his thoughts on
things.
I don't have to agree with him,I just like hearing his
thoughts.
Sometimes I was like dude,you're off base, but still, you
(22:18):
know.
CeeCee (22:18):
He was my favorite on Shark Tank.
Does that count?
And he just still.
You know he was my favorite onShark Tank, Does that count?
Warren (22:21):
And he just retired from Shark Tank.
He's not going to be doing itany longer.
So yeah, and he's a fraternitybrother of mine, but not the
same college not the same mom.
CeeCee (22:30):
Yeah, you're saying.
Warren (22:31):
Not the same college, not the same year, I'm old but
I'm not.
Anyways, not going there, butanyways.
So that was one story I had.
The next story I had came to mefrom LinkedIn and the author's
name is actually Warren Wang,like the WW name there, and he
has 24 reasons why HR quits.
(22:54):
So I want to go through thisand hit these 24 things real
quick.
Get your thoughts and see ifany spark any discussion there.
Treat HR like a department, nota partner, and I don't under
you know they treat it like a.
I guess you know HR should beyour partner in things.
CeeCee (23:12):
I guess is what they're saying.
Warren (23:13):
That's what they're saying yeah, I don't know,
that's not a big deal.
CeeCee (23:15):
Yeah, like I get that.
I'm not your order taker, I'mhere to partner with you.
Warren (23:19):
Yeah, yeah Boy, reject their decisions in front of
employees.
Now that I don't know howfrequently that happens.
I don't think I've ever hadthat happen to me personally.
No, I hope most people don'thave that situation.
Once again, I will havediscussions with my bosses and
(23:43):
give my opinion and sometimes Iget told no, and I'm like you
know.
I made my opinion, thoughtknown and you're you know you
can take the action based onthat or not based on that.
So force HR to be the bad copwithout support.
Andew Quilpa (24:00):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Warren (24:06):
How many times does HR need to send an email that's
directed by, or some form ofcommunication or new policies
forced by the C-suite that HR islike let's not do that, let's
think of something else, let'stry something else.
CeeCee (24:18):
Or even just like I don't know, like HR being the
ones to always like we're, likealways the scapegoats.
It's always like oh, you know,we're firing people because of
HR and it's like, well, no, likewe don't make those decisions.
So it's actually, you know, weare just kind of told what to do
there.
I mean, don't get me wrong, butthere is probably some.
(24:39):
If there's like a layoff orsomething, there's a lot of
consultation.
But I mean, it's not like we'rewalking around the halls being
like you.
I don't like how you look, Getout of here.
Warren (24:48):
Exactly.
Andew Quilpa (24:49):
You smiled funny.
Warren (24:50):
Get out of here, yeah, expect HR to fix what leadership
won't address.
Now I have not experienced thateither.
I hear it so often that youknow HR has got to fix the
culture problem.
Culture seems to be the numberone thing.
You see that it's not somethingany one individual or any one
(25:11):
department is going to fix.
It's a team effort.
It is Give them the authority,but give them no authority, but
expect them to lead.
And so far all these have asimilar theme.
You know, if you want to lead,you have to give some authority
(25:37):
to you know, whip people back inline or get them otherwise
motivated to that.
Never back them up and wonderwhy they leave.
We were discussing a fewepisodes ago that HR in
corporate world has the highestturnover rate of any corporate
function and I found that hardto believe.
But you know, you did theresearch and found it.
You know good old chat GPT saysthat is accurate.
(25:57):
So you know that is accurate.
CeeCee (26:02):
So you know, according to my podcast episode that aired
today, the best prompt is toask it to source itself, so you
can do your due diligence andcheck sources because it is
wrong.
So I hope you didn't believethose facts at face value,
Warren.
Warren (26:15):
They came from you, though.
So I believe.
Of course I believe, but I usegemini, and almost always it has
links that you can follow tofigure out what and look at what
they're citing as their source.
But anyways, once again,similar theme put them in a
spotlight and then leave them tofail.
Too many projects, oh, hr isgoing to take on whatever the
(26:38):
situation is and then have funwith that.
We're not going to support youother than here it is Reward
them with more work but norecognition.
But I think that's anywhere youwork.
I don't think that's unique toHR.
CeeCee (26:54):
Yeah, there was just a video I saw today where it was
like how to burn out your highperformers in the way where
they're like saying Absolutely.
You know your high performersare going to get things done
faster and quicker, but you'rejust going to pile on more work
and then yeah, this one.
Warren (27:10):
I have some thoughts on Expect magic when no real
resources are provided.
Andew Quilpa (27:17):
Hmm.
Warren (27:17):
So sometimes you get some nebulous marching orders of
do this or find this orwhatever it is, and that's all
you're given and it's up to youto figure it out.
You're not going to get aroadmap for every problem that
comes your way and sometimes youknow resources may be thin and
(27:40):
you just have to figure thingsout on yourself, do things
yourself, that you might not bein your comfort zone or anything
, but I kind of like things likethat.
Just ooh, point me in a newdirection and let me see.
Andew Quilpa (27:56):
I don't know.
Warren (28:00):
That's me.
This is another one.
Treat them like office admins,not strategic thinkers.
And I think this one goes backto once again hiring those
people.
Oh, you were so good in ourcustomer service department,
you'll be a great HR manager.
You're so good in doingwhatever other function
administrative function You'llbe a great HR person.
And I think that's why they gettreated like admins and such.
(28:25):
Yeah, overload them with admintasks and not strategic focus.
The exact same thing.
So his 24 reasons list is notreally 24 reasons.
Once again covered this one to adegree.
Give them zero budget butexpect world-class talent yeah,
but HR is.
I've never worked anywhere thatHR has been over budgeted.
(28:47):
So but I think, once again yougo, if you go to any department
marketing, accounting, any ofthem they're going to say, yeah,
we, we don't have enough budget, we want more.
Everybody wants more.
But I think HR probably getsthe shoulder into the stick on
that a lot.
Make them fight for basiccompliance like it's a favor.
You know, like I mentionedearlier that conversation I had
(29:12):
with exempt versus non-exempt.
CeeCee (29:16):
There's like it's black and white check, like it's kind
of black and white guidelines,yeah, that kind of stuff.
There's six factors.
Warren (29:19):
You have black and white check Like it's kind of black
and white guidelines, yeah, thatkind of stuff.
CeeCee (29:22):
There's six factors you have to look at.
No.
Warren (29:26):
Yeah, let's see I'm going to try and skip some of
these.
There's some that areduplicates here.
Expect them to heal toxicenvironments with no tools.
We spoke about it earlier Atoxic environment.
If it's an environment problem,it's an everybody problem.
If it's a toxic person, yeah,HR can deal with that.
CeeCee (29:48):
I don't know how you think about it, but yeah, it is
an everybody problem, but I feellike it more so lies on
leadership.
Warren (29:54):
Top management.
CeeCee (29:55):
Because people are learning it from somewhere and
it's being the behaviors arebeing accepted by someone.
So yeah, like I think theburden of that probably lands on
, like, the top level.
It does not land on HR.
Warren (30:11):
I absolutely agree.
Well said, expect them to samething.
Expect them to fix burnoutwhile rewarding overwork.
I mean it's a no-brainer withthat.
Dump every office problem onthem and walk away
administrative type thing.
Ignore every workplace issueuntil it's a full-blown crisis.
You know early interventionlike drug.
(30:35):
You know the drug commercialsfrom the 80s and 90s.
Early intervention can preventthis If you address early.
I use the example of one of mymanager trainings telling about
my point is to address problemsearlier and I say you know, if
an employee is doing A and youwant them to do B, address it as
soon as you notice the problem,because the longer you wait,
(30:58):
the further A and B get fromeach other and there's a point
where you can't fix it.
You know there's so much timeand money or resources or
they've just been going thewrong direction for so long.
And the employee?
I bet they may, worst casescenario, they get their
feelings hurt for a little while.
But I think ultimately they'llappreciate being put on the
(31:18):
right track and despite all yousee about quite quitting and all
this other stuff, I do notbelieve people come to work with
the intention of doing a badjob and this is like the least
jaded you're going to ever hearme.
I think everybody comes to worktrying to do the best they're
capable of doing and sometimesto raise that capability they
(31:39):
need a good management team or agood leader, mentor or
something like that who canstretch their capabilities and
grow them.
So that's my little soapbox.
CeeCee (31:49):
I will say that some people are motivated a little
differently than others.
There's different levels ofmotivation to do their best.
But I agree with you when yousay no one wakes up in the
morning and says I can't wait tosuck at my job.
Like I can't wait to causeissues for everybody, like I
think so.
Warren (32:08):
Now causing issues?
The drama kings and queens outthere.
I think some of them.
I think they're looking.
You know what are they?
They twiddle their thumbs allnight.
Oh, yes, I'm going to createsome drama at work.
Anyways, change policiesconsistently, constantly and
expect them to keep up.
Cut their team, but increasetheir workload.
(32:30):
Same as you know.
Punish them for speaking upabout uncomfortable truths.
Blame them for bad hires, butnever involve them in the hiring
.
Hires, but never involve themin the hiring.
I had a situation we just weresending an offer yesterday to an
employee.
We've been working with themfor months and from the word go,
(32:51):
at the very beginning, zatarisn't getting involved.
But we extend the offer and I'mtalking to him about, okay, we
accepted the offer.
And then, okay, here's what'sgoing to happen.
You're been in, you know can'tcatch him, you know to follow up
(33:22):
with him and anyways, longstory short, he continued that
trend.
But as soon as he started beingdifficult, I was like I was
telling the hiring manager.
I said I got bad feelings aboutthis guy.
And then, yeah, we, werescinded the offer, call them
hr, but never give them a realseat at the table, the seat at
the table, the seat at the tablething.
(33:43):
The seat at the table Cliché youwant to know something.
CeeCee (33:45):
That was like literally the first thing I learned in
grad school.
Warren (33:50):
How to get a seat at the table.
CeeCee (33:51):
HR has to have a seat at the table.
Warren (33:54):
You know nobody, you know a couple semesters into
grad school.
Nobody's brought that up to me.
Once again.
The last two are, you know,similar to what's been covered
before Demand, culture changewithout leadership actually
changing and push toxic managersforward with the expectation
(34:14):
and expect retention to improve.
So yeah, some of those are good.
I mean that could have been atop 10 list of reasons why HR
quits?
CeeCee (34:24):
Honestly, there were some things that were like a
little repetitive.
Warren (34:26):
Yeah, yeah.
CeeCee (34:27):
I just said the same thing in a different way, but
they're all great Like.
I agree with all of those.
Warren (34:33):
It's.
You know I enjoy cooking.
I told you my my noise is foodnetwork and I'll download
recipes.
And it kills me If you go tolike all recipes or something
like that, a recipe forsomething that you only want.
The recipe it's 10 ingredientsor less, but you have to scroll
300 pages deep because they haveto put.
CeeCee (34:54):
This casserole was what my grandmother served on every
special occasion.
Warren (35:00):
I can't tell you the warm and inviting scents that
whiffed it through, that, like,just tell me how to make the
damn casserole, that's all Iwant Exactly, but I figured it
out because the more verbiageand the longer the pages, the
more ads they can put up thereand pay for that stupid recipe.
That didn't work out well.
CeeCee (35:26):
By the way, we like have a storm brewing like the
thunder is right over our house.
Warren (35:28):
That scared me.
I apologize if you can hearthat.
Oh, I didn't hear it didn'thear a thing, wow, but no, those
were the two things I had tocover I found interesting in the
hr world this week or the lasttwo weeks this week or the last
two weeks.
CeeCee (35:45):
So I was.
You know we're talking aboutother podcasts before and I,
being the complete fan of theoffice, I started listening to
rain wilson's podcast calledsoul boom what is the gist of
that?
Warren (35:54):
because I know he's big in the sci-fi universe and he's.
He's got a lot more going onthan just the office.
CeeCee (36:03):
Yeah, so Soul Boom, I think it.
He used to like run an onlinecreative called Soul Pancake and
it was all very like positivestuff and he was part.
Now Soul Boom is somethingdifferent and basically he talks
about how he had issues withsevere depression and severe
anxiety when he was working inthe office.
(36:24):
Like theoretically, he hadeverything in life that anyone
could ever ask for, but he stillfound himself very unhappy.
So it's basically his way offinding purpose, I guess like
finding purpose in life, and helike talks to a lot of
individual guests.
Warren (36:42):
I heard that one.
CeeCee (36:44):
Like right here, but it's a lot of like wellness and
mental health, wellness andstuff like that, like wellness
and mental health, wellness andstuff like that and
self-discovery.
So he had ed helms on and thenhelms talked about a lot of
stuff that he dealt with, likedealing with adhd and a late
life diagnosis with that.
But anyway, they were talkingabout the office and they were
(37:07):
reminiscing a little bit and heasked you know they talked about
and talked about Andy Bernard's.
One of Andy Bernard's famouslast lines was I wish there was
a way that you could know thatyou were in the good old days
before you left them and theyhad like a little conversation
about that, like what to themwas a good old day.
And I was like, oh, likethinking about all the companies
(37:30):
I used to work at.
I just thought it would beinteresting to just talk about,
as far as company goes, likewhat was your good old day, like
what was the best time and yourfavorite company and your
favorite people to work with.
Warren (37:43):
So I was telling you all fair.
I had a very similarconversation with somebody very
recently so I'm like preparedfor this with somebody very
recently.
So I'm like prepared for this.
So what I did in thisconversation is I started back
in my first true professional HRposition.
I did third-party recruitingthat company.
It was fast-paced, it was fun.
(38:05):
I mean, we had a kegerator atwork, we drank Bloody Marys at
work, we partied hard, we workedhard.
But it was a great environment.
I didn't necessarily fit in aswell there.
I was a little awkward and Iwas only there a few years, but
it was a good environment.
I liked the company, I likedthe people.
(38:25):
I just never felt like I trulyfit in.
So that was a good experience.
Then after that I worked at astaffing agency.
Once again, I liked the peopleI worked with but I didn't like
the staffing agency side of it.
That just wasn't me.
I was only recruiting, I wasn'tdoing sales or anything, but it
(38:48):
just wasn't for me that aspect.
I joined the CPA firm and I wasa recruiter then and the first
couple of years I was in lovewith it.
I was doing recruiting.
I loved it.
Well, I wouldn't say I likedsome of the people I liked one
of the people in my HR team.
(39:08):
I did not like my HR teamterribly much and I actually
sought to move myself out.
We moved from like the fifthfloor to the ninth floor and
there was only so many officesavailable and they said someone
in the HR team is going to haveto move over by IT.
And my hand shot up like arocket and I'm like, yes, put me
with IT.
So that was good and it ended.
(39:32):
Really I hated the way that jobended.
They they brought in a directorlevel above me without ever
letting me know they wanted adirector level or someone to act
like that who was a PETA anddrove me out quickly.
I and it's fine as I I think hewas going to fire me before I,
after that, went to the law firm.
I really the law firm was thefirst place I worked for that I
(39:56):
thought I could see myselfactually retiring from.
I liked it.
I liked a lot of the attorneys.
I liked especially the laborand employment attorneys.
I liked them a lot.
I knew of them and I've workedwith them in the past, both
because they were the CPA firm'sattorneys and I've worked with
(40:17):
them, unfortunately more than myshare of occasions with that,
but I like that.
It was just not the best HRenvironment.
I don't think it was only twoof us plus a payroll person and
we were the personnel departmentand we did everything on excel
spreadsheets and that justpersonnel yeah, obviously,
(40:39):
assistant personnel director.
I worked at the hospital.
I've told that story.
They lost their license withinweeks of me starting and I got
laid off six months later.
But that was just awful.
The university I've workedthere.
I really I'll say this on theair I went in with a thought of
this is going to be temporaryfor me.
(41:00):
I had a very bad preconceivedidea for profit education and
once I got in and saw you know,there's good players in the game
, bad players in the game, andthis university was a good
player in the game.
I liked a lot about it.
I loved my HR team, probablythe best HR team that I will
ever work with.
(41:20):
Patrick was on that team.
I've had other members inseason one were guests with me.
The team was great, theuniversity was good and things
like that.
But the water park it was whatit was.
That wasn't the right job forme.
But now where I'm at now, Ithink I'm actually long story.
(41:42):
I think I'm actually in thatpoint where I'm in the good old
days and I can recognize it.
I love the work I'm doing andyou know, I know there's a
couple of people from my officewho listen to this and I'm not
saying this in a brown nosingway.
I love the work I'm doing, Ilove the company I'm working for
.
I love my boss.
She gives me virtuallyunlimited freedom and allows me
(42:06):
to do pretty much anything Iplease, as long you know, with
it I don't ask anything stupid,I don't think.
But it's, and we mesh very well,we, we think very similarly on
things, and so I think I'm inthe good old days now and I, I
once again, I, I see this placeas hopefully my final, my final
(42:29):
piece of employment before Ifinally do retire.
So I hope I'm correct in sayingI'm living in the good old days
.
I have two employees.
I really enjoy them both.
They're, you know, great.
I'm very pleased with them.
I don't have to hard managethem, it's just everything's
(42:50):
going sunshine and roses, andI've been there for six and a
half years now, so it's not likeI've got the new car smell
still there.
CeeCee (42:58):
I love it.
I was thinking about this too,I would say, when I used to work
for I'll just say the name, itdoesn't matter anymore when I
used to work for Luxottica,which was like a big eyewear
company.
That was some of the most funI've had and I will say I think
it was because I was earlier incareer.
(43:19):
I worked on the recruiting teamand recruiting is a hoot and
then I got to like jump off therecruiting team and go into,
like the learning and OD spaceand we were doing things there
that were very ahead of its time.
So like we were doing thingsback in I would say, 2012 ish.
(43:40):
Like we had a.
We had a diversity and inclusionperson at that point, which
before, like then, like not alot of companies had that and
then we also just like did a lotof like leadership competencies
and stuff like that, and it waslike I'm still using things I
did there presently because wewere so ahead of the curve there
(44:00):
that it's kind of likesometimes, you know, I still
pull on those past experiences.
But I mean, honestly I was, Iwas in one of my co-workers
weddings a A co-worker was in mywedding Like it was just like a
fun time.
But I'm going to say what yousaid.
You stole my answer, warren,because I was going to say that
(44:22):
I think also I'm currently inthe good old days, like you know
.
I'm just kind of thinking thisis the first time in a very long
time where I feel like I'mworking on things that I find to
be super fun and what I wantedto do, and I'm doing things that
are impactful and I am gettingnot credit, but people see the
(44:44):
work I'm doing and acknowledgeit and the recognition.
And I don't think I've had thatfor a very long time and I'm
going to like I don't want tosound like this bitter
ex-employee, but I've been insituations where I'm going to be
really honest, like I don'tthink that direct manager was my
(45:05):
sponsor in rooms I wasn't inand it was like things would get
done, but I was never givencredit.
They took the credit for beingthe leader, of getting it done
and they didn't really want totake the spotlight away from
themselves.
Or I got into a big I mean, Igot into a big argument not
(45:26):
argument like that was dramatic,but I kind of like was very
carefully trying to takesomething out of an old
manager's hand and he basicallyjust shut it down.
He goes I know what you'redoing and I'm never going to
give this up.
And I'm like, ok, like Sitpeople in a room for two hours
and listen to them.
Like have them just watch avideo of you talk for two hours
(45:50):
because you're the leadershipexpert.
Like, oh, like why am I here?
I don't know.
Anyway, it's just like stufflike that where I don't know.
I'm just in a really good placeright now and I like I trust my
boss.
She's amazing.
My manager is amazing.
I work with very smart people.
I would say like I also need tobe the person like I need.
(46:13):
I'm also one of those peoplethat if I see someone doing
something that's like less thanmediocre, it will drive me
insane and I can say like thisis the first time in a while
where I am working with equallybrilliant people.
Nice.
And yeah, it just feels good,I'm in a good place.
Warren (46:31):
No, that is absolutely important.
You know, one of the placesI've worked, even though I was
earlier in my career, I feltthat I was the star on the team
and you know I shouldn't havebeen a star.
I was too early.
I knew at that time I'm too.
Why am I feeling this way?
(46:53):
It's just other people weredoing the bare minimum and you
know, mistakes were accepted andeven laughed at.
Okay, well, I don't like that.
And part of my history andexperience.
I really, once again, I'm nottrying to be sappy or anything.
(47:13):
I'm trying to be the manager tomy two employees that I always
wanted for myself and I feel Ican do some.
You know we have a recruiter Irecruited for over 10 years.
I've got that and I knowrecruiting's changed and evolved
and things like that.
I like working with her andgetting her thoughts and ideas
(47:33):
and she does a seminar and assoon as she does a seminar, it's
over.
I'm like, oh, tell me about it,I want to hear and things like
that.
And another thing, not to tootmy own horn or anything on
Mondays we have a corporatemeeting of all the corporate
department heads, so you have ITand contracts and all the
accounting et cetera all there,and my recruiter one of the VPs
(47:57):
sent me a very nice email abouthow my recruiter was doing an
excellent job helping him fillthese urgent positions and
things like that.
This VP sent a beautiful emailabout our recruiter and I wanted
to share that with everybodyhere to say you know, let
(48:17):
everybody know that she'sgetting recognized so they can
recognize her, and I think thatalso develops the trust.
When they need a job field,they know that they can.
You know that builds the trust.
Okay, I can have confidence inher.
She's knocking it out of thepark for this division, this VP,
so they should have the sameexpectations when they have an
(48:39):
opening and things like that.
I think that's important.
I don't know I've beenunrecognized, I've been sort of
I don't know what the right wordis I've never been in bad.
I've worked with bad people.
I've never been in a badenvironment or bad.
I don't know what the rightword is, but yeah, it's.
Andew Quilpa (48:59):
Yeah.
CeeCee (49:00):
I will say if I've told the story before, you can stop
me and edit this out.
So I worked with an individualwho was very much highly praised
for doing very like basicthings and not and I don't mean
to be rude, I'm I'm meaning thisin a way of like there was
(49:24):
nothing at the company, so abasic of something was better
than what there was, whichsometimes that's awesome.
But this person kept gettingpraised and praised and praised
and praised and they like got atrip to the President's Club,
they got to go to Hawaii on thecompany dime for like, literally
(49:45):
like just do your job just dotheir job, and not only that,
but doing work that I personallydid earlier in my career like
that caliber of work.
so there is a piece of me that'slike listen, kudos to what has
been created, but is it reallylike a trip to hawaii worth
(50:06):
right?
yeah but anyway, not my, not myrodeo, like you know.
Whatever, we're just gonna letthem do their thing.
And I would get a littlefrustrated.
I get.
I get frustrated when peoplealways say I'm so busy, I'm so
busy, I'm so busy oh, my hair ison fire like I'm just so busy
doing all of the things, all ofthe things busy all the time.
(50:28):
And it just like just shut upand do your work like I don't
need to hear it.
But anyway, this was thisperson's MO, just constantly
being busy.
And I do remember like I workedon a project with them close to
me leaving the organization, andone of the things was like, oh,
we need to do this every year,because every year it needs to
be done.
But whatever, and I'm like,well, if we took the moment to
(50:50):
do it right and make it good andright I don't want to say too
much because of people, but like, let's say, we're creating a
training.
I was like, oh, like we do thistraining every year, people
always complain about it.
No one ever will.
I'm like, let's do it, let's doit right and put some time and
effort into it, and then wewon't have to do it over and
over and over.
So I got put on a project withthis person and this person
(51:11):
literally was like we workedthrough it and they said they
started going to the story abouta Rice Krispie Treats
commercial and I remember, likethere's this Rice Krispie Treats
commercial and I know exactlywhat they were talking about.
They were talking about thiscommercial from the 90s or early
2000s and the mom, like is justoverwhelmed with life and she
(51:32):
was making her family a dessert.
And she was just like is justoverwhelmed with life and she
was making her family a dessert.
And she was just like, oh myGod, like leave me alone, I'm
going to close the door, I'mcooking dessert.
And she opens up a box of thepre-made Rice Krispie Treats in
the wrappers and like unwrapsthem and places them on a plate
and uses that time for likeself-care, like I'm going to
read a book and a magazine.
(51:52):
But then, like before shebrought the plate out to her
family, she's like threw flouron her face and like messed her
hair up.
Like oh mommy, mommy just madelike slaved over.
And she said that's what thisis.
And I said, excuse me, she goes.
No matter what we do, we need tomake it look like we did a lot,
what we do.
(52:14):
We need to make it look like wedid a lot.
And I was like I'm done.
I'm done If this is the personwho gets trips to Hawaii, who
gets promoted, who gets stupidaccolades for doing very
remedial work.
I'm out Like I cannot do this.
And it's like in that momentshe they told me what their game
was and I was and I saw thatperson in a very different light
(52:35):
.
I was like okay, so we're beinga little manipulative and lazy.
And I also saw like theorganization as just being like
this is the behavior we want tocelebrate.
And I was like I actually dotake pride in my work.
I put a lot of effort, I thinkstrategically, I do all of the
(52:56):
things and I wasn't promoted inthree years and I left.
Warren (53:00):
Yeah.
CeeCee (53:03):
And so, anyway, I have an inside joke with a former
co-worker of mine, who we know,this individual, and the joke is
we make soufflés, we don't makeRice Krispie Treat and like
just to you know, we we're, wemake souffles.
Warren (53:22):
I've I've worked with people like that as well, and
it's it's annoying.
CeeCee (53:26):
The balls to tell someone like hey, like the balls
to say it, I was just a littlepissed like the balls to say it.
Warren (53:34):
I was just a little pissed, well.
Well, I'm glad we're ending theshow on a jaded note because
this has been so unjaded overall.
But, like I said, we're both inthe the good times now, so it's
hard to be terribly jaded jadedwith that.
So, yeah, anyways, let's here.
We did our thank yous already,so just want to wrap things up.
(53:55):
Please listen, send reviews.
I discovered recently that wehave reviews on Spotify and
unfortunately they only give usours.
But we got like a 4.5 orsomething rating on Spotify, so
keep that up.
CeeCee (54:07):
Oh no, no, it's a 4.6.
Don't short sell us.
Warren (54:10):
Okay, not going to decline on us and things like
that.
So keep those up, leave them onreview on Apple and we will
read them on the air, but, asalways, morn.
CeeCee (54:23):
Butterscotch Penelope Tulip Pants.
That was your weird thing.
If you listened all the way tothe end, that's what you heard.
Andew Quilpa (54:31):
I don't know who lost.
Weird thing If you listened allthe way to the end, that's what
you heard.
I mean, I didn't lose a lot.
Warren (54:35):
And we're both here helping you survive each of our
one what-the-fuck moments at atime.
Bye.
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Warren (00:43):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR professionals
who want to help you getthrough the workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren.
CeeCee (00:53):
I'm Cece.
Warren (00:54):
Yay, we're just talking.
It feels like it's been forever, but it's been our regular two
weeks.
I don't know why, it feels,like it's been so long since we
last talked, but just so muchgoing on in work in the world
and everything else like that.
It's just like and here we are.
We're recording this on August12th.
(01:16):
It's the middle of August.
The summer is pretty much done.
CeeCee (01:20):
I don't like it.
Warren (01:21):
I don't like it.
CeeCee (01:23):
I was telling Warren off air that my company does fiscal
calendars and my managerreminded me yesterday.
She's like oh yeah, somemid-year reviews are in
September and I'm like Septemberis a million years away and I
was like, oh no, it's next month, so I got to get on it.
Warren (01:39):
Yeah, yeah, it's just so crazy how much time is flying
in my just not keeping up withwhat the date is.
We're having our financialadvisors are coming to the
office actually this Thursdayand I forgot it was this
Thursday and they were booking.
(01:59):
You know you could do, throughsignupgeniuscom, a slot to go
meet with them individually.
They'll talk to youindividually, no cost.
We do that at least once a year.
But the financial advisor youcall them, they'll talk your ear
off any, any day.
But just Monday our slotsfilled up and somebody asked for
more slots and it was like, ohyeah, I was thinking that we're
having it on the 14th, the daythis podcast launches, and I'm
(02:23):
like, oh, that's so far away.
And then, as I'm sending theemail, I'm like, oh, that's this
upcoming Thursday.
And I'm like, sorry for theshort notice, but can you add us
a few more slots in theseappointments?
We have more people that wantto participate in that.
And they did.
They were great.
It's just wow.
CeeCee (02:43):
Time is crazy.
That's crazy, I know.
I'm just like.
I just feel like this year hasflown by so quickly.
We're like close to 2026 andI'm very unsettled by that.
Oh, why?
Warren (02:53):
Why would you be unsettled?
CeeCee (02:56):
It's just going so fast.
Oh okay, it's going so fast.
Warren (02:59):
Bad happening in 2026.
I put something on my personalcalendar besides a doctor's
appointment on in January of 26already.
I'm like it's crazy, Crazy.
CeeCee (03:10):
So I don't know about you, but this week I have
appointment.
I have an appointment every daythis week.
It's like either doctor'sappointment for me, I have a
checkup for the baby, and thecat has to go back for a recheck
, because my, our cat was in the.
My gosh, I didn't happen lastweek.
Our cat was sick and we had totake her to the the vet, and she
stayed overnight and that costus like a thousand dollars and
(03:33):
she ended up having a uti and ohmy god.
But anyway, like that's part ofowning an animal, though, yes,
what are you gonna do?
But yeah, so like this week I'mjust back to back to back, like
trying to juggle work meetings,but then also like trying to
sneak out of the house for adoctor's appointment.
Trying, it's just.
It's just a long weekend.
Warren (03:53):
Thankfully we don't have anything this weekend, so I
like just want to sit in frontof the cat, in front of the tv
and veg on the couch I'm stillwaiting for that weekend for
myself, but I I don't havethat's not my this week is
appointments, but Septembersometime I have a dentist
appointment, a follow-up for mysurgery appointment, and things
like that.
I'm just thinking how crazyeverything is.
(04:16):
And I'm actually going to gosee my dermatologist again.
Is why not?
I've met my deductible andout-of-pocket max, so hey, let's
go.
Might as well go.
Let's go to the dermatologist.
I'm trying to get thatappointment.
She's so booked up though I'mbasically going to be on the
wait list for cancellation.
But yeah, it's crazy out there.
CeeCee (04:37):
Crazy Other than that my podcast for work launched, oh
yes, so that was exciting I'mdoing for those who don't know
I'm doing, I'm an L&D, so I workon the L&OD team, which is
learning and org development,and we launched a podcast
(04:58):
because my company is very intothe use of generative AI and
believes it is a skill thateveryone should be well-versed
in, no matter what role thatyou're in.
So I'm doing a podcast on thebest, like how to use it, and
you know, every podcast mydifferent guests is someone from
the organization who's either asuper user or, like you know,
the chief CH I'm sorry, thechief, the head of IT, or who
else like someone from council,but it's interesting
(05:21):
conversations and we've neverused that medium of you know
learning and it's really wellreceived.
So, if no one has done it yet,I think it's a really good
delivery method for learning,especially HR business partner.
And she said she listened to mywork podcast and then she was
(05:48):
like it was very different fromyou know, and I started laughing
because I was just like, yeah,I could imagine me showing to
that podcast like I talk on here, like that would last for like
two seconds.
Warren (06:01):
No F-bombs in the work.
One Come on, we've got to spicethat up.
CeeCee (06:04):
No F-bombs in the work.
One, come on, we've got tospice that up.
Warren (06:07):
No F-bombs, oh man, so yeah, but that's really cool.
I really admire when companiesdo things like yours, are doing
that to further engage and meetthe people where they are.
And if they're because as Iwalk around our office, I would
say more than half of the peoplehave their earbuds in and many
(06:29):
of them are listening topodcasts as I ask, hey, what you
listening to?
You know, I'm just curious whatyou're listening to.
And there's like all sorts ofpodcasts that mainly, it seems,
podcasts they're listening to.
But they're listening to allsorts of the stuff and it's and
they're multitasking, I meanit's, it's more probably noise
in the background.
(06:50):
They're still getting theirwork done.
Just like I mentioned, I haveFood Network on at home.
Is my noise TV, my wife's?
Andew Quilpa (06:57):
is.
Warren (06:57):
Investigation.
Discovery Channel is her whitenoise.
CeeCee (07:00):
I'm Gilmore.
Warren (07:00):
Girls, gilmore Girls, oh gosh.
Aren't they bringing that back,or is there going to be?
Like a special reunion orsomething along like that I
think I saw on social media.
I don't.
CeeCee (07:14):
This is just me being on my soapbox.
Sometimes stories just need toend and we need to be okay with
that.
So I know they did the rebootin like 2016.
It was great.
I enjoyed it.
We do not need another reboot.
If anyone from the Amy ShermanPalladino camp is listening to
this, I would be interested inan Emily Gilmore prequel series
(07:35):
where we like focus on Emilywhen she meets Richard and all
that that I might be interestedin, but we're done with the
story.
Let it lie.
We don't have to rebooteverything and that is off my
soapbox.
Warren (07:49):
Well, rebooting.
You know how many times nowhave they rebooted Dexter and
I'm actually, I will say thiscurrent Dexter resurrection I'm
enjoying.
For the most part it's betterthan the beginnings one, the
origin one, when he was a kid.
And so I'm enjoying it, butit's yeah, it's something else.
(08:11):
Let's see.
One thing I want to try and dogoing forward is get our thank
yous early on, because so ourPatreon supporters may not make
it.
You know, like 80% of ourlisteners make it through like
85% of the podcasts, and I thinkwhen they start hearing us wind
(08:31):
it down.
people are okay, Next click andthings like that.
So I want to put the shout outsto Hallie, the original Jaded
HR rock star Michael and Billfor supporting us on Patreon.
You can, too, just follow theshow notes.
It's very much appreciated.
And also our thank you to theUnderschool Orchestra for use of
the theme song Devil the Deviland Andrew Kolpa who does the
(08:53):
intro.
So yeah, get those out of theway so people can get their
recognition early on, beforeeverybody starts hanging up on
us.
CeeCee (09:02):
I'm going to start saying one crazy thing at the
end of every episode, and you'lljust have to listen to the end
to hear it.
And it could be anything, whoknows?
Warren (09:09):
Now one podcast I listen to.
It's one of my favoritepodcasts.
They end their official episodeand then there's this like tone
and then they go on the hostthey're talking about.
It can be anything.
We've talked about the Italianrestaurant, they someone went to
last week and they just it's,it's pretty good, sometimes it's
(09:29):
related, sometimes it's justanything they talked about and
it's like another five, tenminutes.
I'd like that as well, but gosh, I was gonna say something else
based on what you said.
I forget squirrel, but anywayssquirrel.
Well, squirrel, but anywaysSquirrel.
That one.
Well, I found two stories todiscuss Disgust, disgust, oh,
(09:51):
yes, anyways To discuss.
The first one is from a sitecalled she Knows and the author
is Alice Kelly and this is fromJuly 31st.
And we've said any number oftimes you don't work in HR until
you've dealt with poop.
CeeCee (10:14):
I know HR Besties says something about that Poop and
porn.
Warren (10:17):
I think it was Jamie on HR.
CeeCee (10:18):
Besties has a poop story .
Warren (10:22):
If you're in HR and you don't have a poop story, you
haven't earned your badges yet.
That's true.
CeeCee (10:27):
By the way, really quick shout out to Jamie on the HR
Besties, because if anyonehasn't heard or listened, first
of all, they're fantastic, youshould listen to them.
Second of all, she has the mostinsane layoff story that I have
ever heard.
She's been laid off, she'slooking for a new role, but it
is a story of bad HR doing badHR and there are bad actors out
(10:53):
there and it makes me sad.
But you know, if you, if youknow of any really good HR roles
, send them to HR Bestie Jamie.
Warren (11:01):
Yeah, you know I'm a couple of weeks behind on my
podcast right now, but I did seeon social media a clip of them
talking about what had happenedand it's mainly Leah and Jamie
doing the talking in that clip.
I was like really, but it's badHR like that that gives the
(11:22):
true HR professionals who areout there busting their butt and
working hard.
They're the ones who give it abad name and especially spoiler
alert or whatever you want tosay if you're lying and
falsifying, creating falsifieddocuments or whatever you want
to say to that.
I was watching that clip.
It must have been on Instagramor something.
(11:42):
My jaw was just dropped likereally, you know really yeah.
CeeCee (11:50):
So if you haven't checked them out, go check them
out.
She'll give you the whole storyyeah, but here's the deal.
If you check out their podcastand you like it, you still have
to come back and still listen toour podcast.
Warren (11:59):
Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely.
And that's one thing I likeabout the podcast universe,
because there's so many podcastsout there and I don't think you
necessarily compete with otherpodcasts in which I went through
my list and I unsubscribed fromsome podcasts.
Now some of them are like theHustle Work Environment podcast,
(12:27):
which hasn't released anepisode since 2022.
And I guess Corporate PizzaParty hasn't released an episode
in like six months and I tookthose off my list.
I'll keep my eyes open to seeif they do put anything else out
.
But a couple of others I'vebeen adding them.
I added your Stupid Op stupidopinion based on your
recommendation right yeah, it's.
It's quite funny.
(12:48):
Now I know they've done somestories of locations in
cincinnati.
I'm waiting for them to do forus a location of somewhere I
might be familiar with.
They haven't done that quiteyet, so I live okay.
CeeCee (13:00):
So for those of you who don't know, your stupid opinion
is a podcast which is just thatthey read stupid opinions that
people leave on reviews and Ithink it speaks to my love of
and this is going to come offvery jaded, but I used to run
the what is it, the annualengagement surveys, and some of
(13:22):
my favorite things was to gothrough the comment because A
there's a lot of good stuff inthere and there's also a lot of
very unhinged things in thereand people will say the most
ridiculous stuff in there andit's confidential and we can't
see who's leaving what comments,but it's a hoot just seeing
what some people just leaveuncensored.
(13:45):
So if you're someone who loves agood engagement survey and
loves reading comments onsurveys, you should also go
listen to that podcast.
But I do live six minutes awayfrom episode one where they talk
about the worst Wendy's.
It's right down the street.
Oh, wow, yeah, anyway, it'sright down the street.
Warren (14:03):
Oh, wow, yeah I.
CeeCee (14:03):
Anyway.
Warren (14:05):
I like it, and then their adult toy or whatever
product that they do every week.
CeeCee (14:10):
The personal item of the week.
Warren (14:11):
Personal item of the week.
Oh my gosh.
There's been some where I'm likeyeah, exactly none of this
sounds enjoyable for anybody isthat's an actual product and and
a lot of them they're gettingon amazon.
They're not like going to someI know crazy snm online shop or
something like that.
They're, it's just amazon andI'm like, oh lordy.
(14:35):
But yeah, sometimes I get boredis the only downside about that
podcast.
They go awfully long, like wedo.
They're starting to read somany comments and so I sort of
yeah, okay, I got the gist ofthis place.
Let's get to the personal itemof the week, just to make myself
cringe a little.
CeeCee (14:54):
So anyhow, Anyway, I'm sorry I derailed you.
Warren (14:58):
Oh no, no it was a great derailment, but anyways,
Gwyneth Paltrow, she owns thatcompany Goop.
Ah yes, the poop, and that'snotorious for some of their very
special fragrances.
CeeCee (15:11):
Yes, yes, yes.
Warren (15:12):
Of their candles and such, but we won't get into that
here.
That can be saved for theirpersonal item of the week.
This article from she Knowsapparently Goop has some potty
problems at Goop and soapparently Gwyneth Paltrow sent
an email to the entire staff.
(15:33):
It says, quote found pee on atoilet seat at the office.
Someone tinkled.
Make sure to clean up afteryourself.
I'd appreciate it.
And I'm just like yeah, that,oh, that was not an email, that
was on the company's Slackchannel, anyways.
CeeCee (15:50):
Was it from Gwyneth or was it from corporate
communications that I need toknow?
We have our internal Slack, wehave Slack and I'm just laughing
because, like only certainpeople can do the all team
channel and that's likecorporate communications and
stuff.
But I'm like I'm wondering didit come from Gwyneth?
Yes, Did it have like her nameand her icon?
(16:12):
And it was like please wipe upafter your tinkles.
Warren (16:15):
If you tinkle and you sprinkle, be a sweetie, clean
the CD Gosh anyways.
But yeah, this is according tosomeone named Adele.
She wrote a biography onworking, I guess at Goop and
Gwyneth Paltrow, and goes on,but anyways, she goes on to say
that allegedly many who workexcuse me, she goes about the
(16:41):
behind the scenes of the companyand things like allegedly many
who quote work up the nerve togo into her office allegedly
experience impatience of anattitude.
Odell writes If an employeereplied to one of her emails
with thanks or on it, she'd tellthem not to send those emails
because they're a waste of time.
So now I've heard I don't knowif it was Steve Jobs or somebody
(17:04):
else was that hate?
And maybe it's no, I think it's.
Bezos actually hates thoseemails.
Yeah, I'm telling you what todo.
Just get it done, don't youknow?
Give me okay.
CeeCee (17:15):
No, thank you.
Yeah, no thank yous and thingslike that, but which is
interesting because I will sayone of like, early in my career,
one of the first initiativesthat like the team put out was
this whole.
What was it?
It was like these certainthings.
So it was like end on the fives.
So you didn't like you're beinghanded at like five till
whatever.
So you gave people a chance tolike go to the bathroom or
(17:37):
something.
And the other one was don'treply all and you don't need to
say thanks like we got it like.
So you don't have to like evenreply all and say thanks or this
was great, or blah, blah, blah.
It was just like mail, likejust we're just gonna do it
right, but honestly, like I missa nice thank you you can send
(17:58):
me.
Also, you can just confirm thatyou got it Like.
Oh, got it On it.
Warren (18:04):
Yeah, see, I like that.
I like I don't.
If my I have a whopping twoemployees under me and if I
shoot them something to do andthey don't reply, got it on it.
I trust they're going to do it.
So up to date, I don't have areason not to.
If situations changed and theygave me reason to say, hey, did
(18:29):
you get that last email orsomething, then that'd be a
thing.
But I would say 99 plus percentof the time I just hey, can you
knock this out for me realquick?
And next thing, I know it'sdone before I get a thank you or
anything like that.
But sometimes they do.
Yeah, I'll get that taken careof.
Let's see here.
Also in the book, odell writes,this hostile dynamic was subtle
(18:59):
but damaging within the companyand almost no one, the board
included, was willing to tellher no.
And that's a problem when youhave people who are just too
afraid to tell people no.
I mean, is Gwyneth Paltrow that?
I don't know.
CeeCee (19:21):
I don't know anything about her.
I don't, whatever.
This is just my personalperception.
She seems insufferable,honestly, like she just has that
.
Like her and Katy Perry, theyjust kind of seem like women who
drank too much of their ownKool-Aid and think a lot of
themselves, like and that I meanjust people in general women
(19:44):
who drank too much of their ownKool-Aid and think a lot of
themselves like, and that I meanjust people in general like
even.
You know, I don't know why Isaid two women, but they just
seem like two individuals who,like, just think very highly of
themselves and I don't havepatience for that in anybody,
Like if you take yourself tooseriously and you know your own
biggest fan in a veryegotistical way and assume that
everyone else believes the samething.
I just don't have patience forthat and that's what I feel
(20:05):
about.
I'm so sorry.
Warren (20:07):
No see, I don't know enough about Quinteth Paltrow.
I don't either, but she doesn'tseem like why would you?
I'm trying to think of somebodywho might intimidate me to the
point of like, oh no, no, but ifI'm working for you and you're
hiring me to do a job, sometimesthat job is to give you advice
hey, let's load, let's hit thebrakes here, let's rethink this,
(20:28):
or are we sure we're doing it?
This is what we want to bedoing, and things like that.
Or even just flat out, no.
I had a long discussion aboutexempt versus non-exempt with a
manager not that long ago, andof course, the manager wants
them to be exempt.
And I'm like no, and I wastrying to tell them.
(20:49):
I was giving them everyopportunity to convince me and
they never convinced me.
I said no, this person's hourly, but they're going to be
working a lot of overtime.
Okay, well, they'll make a lotof overtime then.
Good for them.
Yeah, it's going to be workinga lot of overtime.
Okay, well, they'll make a lotof overtime then.
Go for that, yeah, it's going tobe a lot of travel involved.
That's why they're going tohave so much overtime.
And I'm like you know youhaven't convinced me and I'm not
(21:12):
hard to convince and I likefinding I'm comfortable working
in some gray areas as long as Ifeel that my, my, I feel pretty
strong.
Okay, we're okay.
You know it may not beabsolutely perfect, but we're,
we're okay and I think, being ina lot of leadership roles, you
(21:33):
have to learn to accept somegray areas.
But sometimes no is no, nomeans no.
(21:55):
Sometimes I listen to weirdpodcasts I've never heard of
before when he's on them andthings like that and stuff like
that.
So just because he thinksdifferently and he does things
differently and I like that, Ilike hearing his thoughts on
things.
I don't have to agree with him,I just like hearing his
thoughts.
Sometimes I was like dude,you're off base, but still, you
(22:18):
know.
CeeCee (22:18):
He was my favorite on Shark Tank.
Does that count?
And he just still.
You know he was my favorite onShark Tank, Does that count?
Warren (22:21):
And he just retired from Shark Tank.
He's not going to be doing itany longer.
So yeah, and he's a fraternitybrother of mine, but not the
same college not the same mom.
CeeCee (22:30):
Yeah, you're saying.
Warren (22:31):
Not the same college, not the same year, I'm old but
I'm not.
Anyways, not going there, butanyways.
So that was one story I had.
The next story I had came to mefrom LinkedIn and the author's
name is actually Warren Wang,like the WW name there, and he
has 24 reasons why HR quits.
(22:54):
So I want to go through thisand hit these 24 things real
quick.
Get your thoughts and see ifany spark any discussion there.
Treat HR like a department, nota partner, and I don't under
you know they treat it like a.
I guess you know HR should beyour partner in things.
CeeCee (23:12):
I guess is what they're saying.
Warren (23:13):
That's what they're saying yeah, I don't know,
that's not a big deal.
CeeCee (23:15):
Yeah, like I get that.
I'm not your order taker, I'mhere to partner with you.
Warren (23:19):
Yeah, yeah Boy, reject their decisions in front of
employees.
Now that I don't know howfrequently that happens.
I don't think I've ever hadthat happen to me personally.
No, I hope most people don'thave that situation.
Once again, I will havediscussions with my bosses and
(23:43):
give my opinion and sometimes Iget told no, and I'm like you
know.
I made my opinion, thoughtknown and you're you know you
can take the action based onthat or not based on that.
So force HR to be the bad copwithout support.
Andew Quilpa (24:00):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Warren (24:06):
How many times does HR need to send an email that's
directed by, or some form ofcommunication or new policies
forced by the C-suite that HR islike let's not do that, let's
think of something else, let'stry something else.
CeeCee (24:18):
Or even just like I don't know, like HR being the
ones to always like we're, likealways the scapegoats.
It's always like oh, you know,we're firing people because of
HR and it's like, well, no, likewe don't make those decisions.
So it's actually, you know, weare just kind of told what to do
there.
I mean, don't get me wrong, butthere is probably some.
(24:39):
If there's like a layoff orsomething, there's a lot of
consultation.
But I mean, it's not like we'rewalking around the halls being
like you.
I don't like how you look, Getout of here.
Warren (24:48):
Exactly.
Andew Quilpa (24:49):
You smiled funny.
Warren (24:50):
Get out of here, yeah, expect HR to fix what leadership
won't address.
Now I have not experienced thateither.
I hear it so often that youknow HR has got to fix the
culture problem.
Culture seems to be the numberone thing.
You see that it's not somethingany one individual or any one
(25:11):
department is going to fix.
It's a team effort.
It is Give them the authority,but give them no authority, but
expect them to lead.
And so far all these have asimilar theme.
You know, if you want to lead,you have to give some authority
(25:37):
to you know, whip people back inline or get them otherwise
motivated to that.
Never back them up and wonderwhy they leave.
We were discussing a fewepisodes ago that HR in
corporate world has the highestturnover rate of any corporate
function and I found that hardto believe.
But you know, you did theresearch and found it.
You know good old chat GPT saysthat is accurate.
(25:57):
So you know that is accurate.
CeeCee (26:02):
So you know, according to my podcast episode that aired
today, the best prompt is toask it to source itself, so you
can do your due diligence andcheck sources because it is
wrong.
So I hope you didn't believethose facts at face value,
Warren.
Warren (26:15):
They came from you, though.
So I believe.
Of course I believe, but I usegemini, and almost always it has
links that you can follow tofigure out what and look at what
they're citing as their source.
But anyways, once again,similar theme put them in a
spotlight and then leave them tofail.
Too many projects, oh, hr isgoing to take on whatever the
(26:38):
situation is and then have funwith that.
We're not going to support youother than here it is Reward
them with more work but norecognition.
But I think that's anywhere youwork.
I don't think that's unique toHR.
CeeCee (26:54):
Yeah, there was just a video I saw today where it was
like how to burn out your highperformers in the way where
they're like saying Absolutely.
You know your high performersare going to get things done
faster and quicker, but you'rejust going to pile on more work
and then yeah, this one.
Warren (27:10):
I have some thoughts on Expect magic when no real
resources are provided.
Andew Quilpa (27:17):
Hmm.
Warren (27:17):
So sometimes you get some nebulous marching orders of
do this or find this orwhatever it is, and that's all
you're given and it's up to youto figure it out.
You're not going to get aroadmap for every problem that
comes your way and sometimes youknow resources may be thin and
(27:40):
you just have to figure thingsout on yourself, do things
yourself, that you might not bein your comfort zone or anything
, but I kind of like things likethat.
Just ooh, point me in a newdirection and let me see.
Andew Quilpa (27:56):
I don't know.
Warren (28:00):
That's me.
This is another one.
Treat them like office admins,not strategic thinkers.
And I think this one goes backto once again hiring those
people.
Oh, you were so good in ourcustomer service department,
you'll be a great HR manager.
You're so good in doingwhatever other function
administrative function You'llbe a great HR person.
And I think that's why they gettreated like admins and such.
(28:25):
Yeah, overload them with admintasks and not strategic focus.
The exact same thing.
So his 24 reasons list is notreally 24 reasons.
Once again covered this one to adegree.
Give them zero budget butexpect world-class talent yeah,
but HR is.
I've never worked anywhere thatHR has been over budgeted.
(28:47):
So but I think, once again yougo, if you go to any department
marketing, accounting, any ofthem they're going to say, yeah,
we, we don't have enough budget, we want more.
Everybody wants more.
But I think HR probably getsthe shoulder into the stick on
that a lot.
Make them fight for basiccompliance like it's a favor.
You know, like I mentionedearlier that conversation I had
(29:12):
with exempt versus non-exempt.
CeeCee (29:16):
There's like it's black and white check, like it's kind
of black and white guidelines,yeah, that kind of stuff.
There's six factors.
Warren (29:19):
You have black and white check Like it's kind of black
and white guidelines, yeah, thatkind of stuff.
CeeCee (29:22):
There's six factors you have to look at.
No.
Warren (29:26):
Yeah, let's see I'm going to try and skip some of
these.
There's some that areduplicates here.
Expect them to heal toxicenvironments with no tools.
We spoke about it earlier Atoxic environment.
If it's an environment problem,it's an everybody problem.
If it's a toxic person, yeah,HR can deal with that.
CeeCee (29:48):
I don't know how you think about it, but yeah, it is
an everybody problem, but I feellike it more so lies on
leadership.
Warren (29:54):
Top management.
CeeCee (29:55):
Because people are learning it from somewhere and
it's being the behaviors arebeing accepted by someone.
So yeah, like I think theburden of that probably lands on
, like, the top level.
It does not land on HR.
Warren (30:11):
I absolutely agree.
Well said, expect them to samething.
Expect them to fix burnoutwhile rewarding overwork.
I mean it's a no-brainer withthat.
Dump every office problem onthem and walk away
administrative type thing.
Ignore every workplace issueuntil it's a full-blown crisis.
You know early interventionlike drug.
(30:35):
You know the drug commercialsfrom the 80s and 90s.
Early intervention can preventthis If you address early.
I use the example of one of mymanager trainings telling about
my point is to address problemsearlier and I say you know, if
an employee is doing A and youwant them to do B, address it as
soon as you notice the problem,because the longer you wait,
(30:58):
the further A and B get fromeach other and there's a point
where you can't fix it.
You know there's so much timeand money or resources or
they've just been going thewrong direction for so long.
And the employee?
I bet they may, worst casescenario, they get their
feelings hurt for a little while.
But I think ultimately they'llappreciate being put on the
(31:18):
right track and despite all yousee about quite quitting and all
this other stuff, I do notbelieve people come to work with
the intention of doing a badjob and this is like the least
jaded you're going to ever hearme.
I think everybody comes to worktrying to do the best they're
capable of doing and sometimesto raise that capability they
(31:39):
need a good management team or agood leader, mentor or
something like that who canstretch their capabilities and
grow them.
So that's my little soapbox.
CeeCee (31:49):
I will say that some people are motivated a little
differently than others.
There's different levels ofmotivation to do their best.
But I agree with you when yousay no one wakes up in the
morning and says I can't wait tosuck at my job.
Like I can't wait to causeissues for everybody, like I
think so.
Warren (32:08):
Now causing issues?
The drama kings and queens outthere.
I think some of them.
I think they're looking.
You know what are they?
They twiddle their thumbs allnight.
Oh, yes, I'm going to createsome drama at work.
Anyways, change policiesconsistently, constantly and
expect them to keep up.
Cut their team, but increasetheir workload.
(32:30):
Same as you know.
Punish them for speaking upabout uncomfortable truths.
Blame them for bad hires, butnever involve them in the hiring
.
Hires, but never involve themin the hiring.
I had a situation we just weresending an offer yesterday to an
employee.
We've been working with themfor months and from the word go,
(32:51):
at the very beginning, zatarisn't getting involved.
But we extend the offer and I'mtalking to him about, okay, we
accepted the offer.
And then, okay, here's what'sgoing to happen.
You're been in, you know can'tcatch him, you know to follow up
(33:22):
with him and anyways, longstory short, he continued that
trend.
But as soon as he started beingdifficult, I was like I was
telling the hiring manager.
I said I got bad feelings aboutthis guy.
And then, yeah, we, werescinded the offer, call them
hr, but never give them a realseat at the table, the seat at
the table, the seat at the tablething.
(33:43):
The seat at the table Cliché youwant to know something.
CeeCee (33:45):
That was like literally the first thing I learned in
grad school.
Warren (33:50):
How to get a seat at the table.
CeeCee (33:51):
HR has to have a seat at the table.
Warren (33:54):
You know nobody, you know a couple semesters into
grad school.
Nobody's brought that up to me.
Once again.
The last two are, you know,similar to what's been covered
before Demand, culture changewithout leadership actually
changing and push toxic managersforward with the expectation
(34:14):
and expect retention to improve.
So yeah, some of those are good.
I mean that could have been atop 10 list of reasons why HR
quits?
CeeCee (34:24):
Honestly, there were some things that were like a
little repetitive.
Warren (34:26):
Yeah, yeah.
CeeCee (34:27):
I just said the same thing in a different way, but
they're all great Like.
I agree with all of those.
Warren (34:33):
It's.
You know I enjoy cooking.
I told you my my noise is foodnetwork and I'll download
recipes.
And it kills me If you go tolike all recipes or something
like that, a recipe forsomething that you only want.
The recipe it's 10 ingredientsor less, but you have to scroll
300 pages deep because they haveto put.
CeeCee (34:54):
This casserole was what my grandmother served on every
special occasion.
Warren (35:00):
I can't tell you the warm and inviting scents that
whiffed it through, that, like,just tell me how to make the
damn casserole, that's all Iwant Exactly, but I figured it
out because the more verbiageand the longer the pages, the
more ads they can put up thereand pay for that stupid recipe.
That didn't work out well.
CeeCee (35:26):
By the way, we like have a storm brewing like the
thunder is right over our house.
Warren (35:28):
That scared me.
I apologize if you can hearthat.
Oh, I didn't hear it didn'thear a thing, wow, but no, those
were the two things I had tocover I found interesting in the
hr world this week or the lasttwo weeks this week or the last
two weeks.
CeeCee (35:45):
So I was.
You know we're talking aboutother podcasts before and I,
being the complete fan of theoffice, I started listening to
rain wilson's podcast calledsoul boom what is the gist of
that?
Warren (35:54):
because I know he's big in the sci-fi universe and he's.
He's got a lot more going onthan just the office.
CeeCee (36:03):
Yeah, so Soul Boom, I think it.
He used to like run an onlinecreative called Soul Pancake and
it was all very like positivestuff and he was part.
Now Soul Boom is somethingdifferent and basically he talks
about how he had issues withsevere depression and severe
anxiety when he was working inthe office.
(36:24):
Like theoretically, he hadeverything in life that anyone
could ever ask for, but he stillfound himself very unhappy.
So it's basically his way offinding purpose, I guess like
finding purpose in life, and helike talks to a lot of
individual guests.
Warren (36:42):
I heard that one.
CeeCee (36:44):
Like right here, but it's a lot of like wellness and
mental health, wellness andstuff like that, like wellness
and mental health, wellness andstuff like that and
self-discovery.
So he had ed helms on and thenhelms talked about a lot of
stuff that he dealt with, likedealing with adhd and a late
life diagnosis with that.
But anyway, they were talkingabout the office and they were
(37:07):
reminiscing a little bit and heasked you know they talked about
and talked about Andy Bernard's.
One of Andy Bernard's famouslast lines was I wish there was
a way that you could know thatyou were in the good old days
before you left them and theyhad like a little conversation
about that, like what to themwas a good old day.
And I was like, oh, likethinking about all the companies
(37:30):
I used to work at.
I just thought it would beinteresting to just talk about,
as far as company goes, likewhat was your good old day, like
what was the best time and yourfavorite company and your
favorite people to work with.
Warren (37:43):
So I was telling you all fair.
I had a very similarconversation with somebody very
recently so I'm like preparedfor this with somebody very
recently.
So I'm like prepared for this.
So what I did in thisconversation is I started back
in my first true professional HRposition.
I did third-party recruitingthat company.
It was fast-paced, it was fun.
(38:05):
I mean, we had a kegerator atwork, we drank Bloody Marys at
work, we partied hard, we workedhard.
But it was a great environment.
I didn't necessarily fit in aswell there.
I was a little awkward and Iwas only there a few years, but
it was a good environment.
I liked the company, I likedthe people.
(38:25):
I just never felt like I trulyfit in.
So that was a good experience.
Then after that I worked at astaffing agency.
Once again, I liked the peopleI worked with but I didn't like
the staffing agency side of it.
That just wasn't me.
I was only recruiting, I wasn'tdoing sales or anything, but it
(38:48):
just wasn't for me that aspect.
I joined the CPA firm and I wasa recruiter then and the first
couple of years I was in lovewith it.
I was doing recruiting.
I loved it.
Well, I wouldn't say I likedsome of the people I liked one
of the people in my HR team.
(39:08):
I did not like my HR teamterribly much and I actually
sought to move myself out.
We moved from like the fifthfloor to the ninth floor and
there was only so many officesavailable and they said someone
in the HR team is going to haveto move over by IT.
And my hand shot up like arocket and I'm like, yes, put me
with IT.
So that was good and it ended.
(39:32):
Really I hated the way that jobended.
They they brought in a directorlevel above me without ever
letting me know they wanted adirector level or someone to act
like that who was a PETA anddrove me out quickly.
I and it's fine as I I think hewas going to fire me before I,
after that, went to the law firm.
I really the law firm was thefirst place I worked for that I
(39:56):
thought I could see myselfactually retiring from.
I liked it.
I liked a lot of the attorneys.
I liked especially the laborand employment attorneys.
I liked them a lot.
I knew of them and I've workedwith them in the past, both
because they were the CPA firm'sattorneys and I've worked with
(40:17):
them, unfortunately more than myshare of occasions with that,
but I like that.
It was just not the best HRenvironment.
I don't think it was only twoof us plus a payroll person and
we were the personnel departmentand we did everything on excel
spreadsheets and that justpersonnel yeah, obviously,
(40:39):
assistant personnel director.
I worked at the hospital.
I've told that story.
They lost their license withinweeks of me starting and I got
laid off six months later.
But that was just awful.
The university I've workedthere.
I really I'll say this on theair I went in with a thought of
this is going to be temporaryfor me.
(41:00):
I had a very bad preconceivedidea for profit education and
once I got in and saw you know,there's good players in the game
, bad players in the game, andthis university was a good
player in the game.
I liked a lot about it.
I loved my HR team, probablythe best HR team that I will
ever work with.
(41:20):
Patrick was on that team.
I've had other members inseason one were guests with me.
The team was great, theuniversity was good and things
like that.
But the water park it was whatit was.
That wasn't the right job forme.
But now where I'm at now, Ithink I'm actually long story.
(41:42):
I think I'm actually in thatpoint where I'm in the good old
days and I can recognize it.
I love the work I'm doing andyou know, I know there's a
couple of people from my officewho listen to this and I'm not
saying this in a brown nosingway.
I love the work I'm doing, Ilove the company I'm working for
.
I love my boss.
She gives me virtuallyunlimited freedom and allows me
(42:06):
to do pretty much anything Iplease, as long you know, with
it I don't ask anything stupid,I don't think.
But it's, and we mesh very well,we, we think very similarly on
things, and so I think I'm inthe good old days now and I, I
once again, I, I see this placeas hopefully my final, my final
(42:29):
piece of employment before Ifinally do retire.
So I hope I'm correct in sayingI'm living in the good old days
.
I have two employees.
I really enjoy them both.
They're, you know, great.
I'm very pleased with them.
I don't have to hard managethem, it's just everything's
(42:50):
going sunshine and roses, andI've been there for six and a
half years now, so it's not likeI've got the new car smell
still there.
CeeCee (42:58):
I love it.
I was thinking about this too,I would say, when I used to work
for I'll just say the name, itdoesn't matter anymore when I
used to work for Luxottica,which was like a big eyewear
company.
That was some of the most funI've had and I will say I think
it was because I was earlier incareer.
(43:19):
I worked on the recruiting teamand recruiting is a hoot and
then I got to like jump off therecruiting team and go into,
like the learning and OD spaceand we were doing things there
that were very ahead of its time.
So like we were doing thingsback in I would say, 2012 ish.
(43:40):
Like we had a.
We had a diversity and inclusionperson at that point, which
before, like then, like not alot of companies had that and
then we also just like did a lotof like leadership competencies
and stuff like that, and it waslike I'm still using things I
did there presently because wewere so ahead of the curve there
(44:00):
that it's kind of likesometimes, you know, I still
pull on those past experiences.
But I mean, honestly I was, Iwas in one of my co-workers
weddings a A co-worker was in mywedding Like it was just like a
fun time.
But I'm going to say what yousaid.
You stole my answer, warren,because I was going to say that
(44:22):
I think also I'm currently inthe good old days, like you know
.
I'm just kind of thinking thisis the first time in a very long
time where I feel like I'mworking on things that I find to
be super fun and what I wantedto do, and I'm doing things that
are impactful and I am gettingnot credit, but people see the
(44:44):
work I'm doing and acknowledgeit and the recognition.
And I don't think I've had thatfor a very long time and I'm
going to like I don't want tosound like this bitter
ex-employee, but I've been insituations where I'm going to be
really honest, like I don'tthink that direct manager was my
(45:05):
sponsor in rooms I wasn't inand it was like things would get
done, but I was never givencredit.
They took the credit for beingthe leader, of getting it done
and they didn't really want totake the spotlight away from
themselves.
Or I got into a big I mean, Igot into a big argument not
(45:26):
argument like that was dramatic,but I kind of like was very
carefully trying to takesomething out of an old
manager's hand and he basicallyjust shut it down.
He goes I know what you'redoing and I'm never going to
give this up.
And I'm like, ok, like Sitpeople in a room for two hours
and listen to them.
Like have them just watch avideo of you talk for two hours
(45:50):
because you're the leadershipexpert.
Like, oh, like why am I here?
I don't know.
Anyway, it's just like stufflike that where I don't know.
I'm just in a really good placeright now and I like I trust my
boss.
She's amazing.
My manager is amazing.
I work with very smart people.
I would say like I also need tobe the person like I need.
(46:13):
I'm also one of those peoplethat if I see someone doing
something that's like less thanmediocre, it will drive me
insane and I can say like thisis the first time in a while
where I am working with equallybrilliant people.
Nice.
And yeah, it just feels good,I'm in a good place.
Warren (46:31):
No, that is absolutely important.
You know, one of the placesI've worked, even though I was
earlier in my career, I feltthat I was the star on the team
and you know I shouldn't havebeen a star.
I was too early.
I knew at that time I'm too.
Why am I feeling this way?
(46:53):
It's just other people weredoing the bare minimum and you
know, mistakes were accepted andeven laughed at.
Okay, well, I don't like that.
And part of my history andexperience.
I really, once again, I'm nottrying to be sappy or anything.
(47:13):
I'm trying to be the manager tomy two employees that I always
wanted for myself and I feel Ican do some.
You know we have a recruiter Irecruited for over 10 years.
I've got that and I knowrecruiting's changed and evolved
and things like that.
I like working with her andgetting her thoughts and ideas
(47:33):
and she does a seminar and assoon as she does a seminar, it's
over.
I'm like, oh, tell me about it,I want to hear and things like
that.
And another thing, not to tootmy own horn or anything on
Mondays we have a corporatemeeting of all the corporate
department heads, so you have ITand contracts and all the
accounting et cetera all there,and my recruiter one of the VPs
(47:57):
sent me a very nice email abouthow my recruiter was doing an
excellent job helping him fillthese urgent positions and
things like that.
This VP sent a beautiful emailabout our recruiter and I wanted
to share that with everybodyhere to say you know, let
(48:17):
everybody know that she'sgetting recognized so they can
recognize her, and I think thatalso develops the trust.
When they need a job field,they know that they can.
You know that builds the trust.
Okay, I can have confidence inher.
She's knocking it out of thepark for this division, this VP,
so they should have the sameexpectations when they have an
(48:39):
opening and things like that.
I think that's important.
I don't know I've beenunrecognized, I've been sort of
I don't know what the right wordis I've never been in bad.
I've worked with bad people.
I've never been in a badenvironment or bad.
I don't know what the rightword is, but yeah, it's.
Andew Quilpa (48:59):
Yeah.
CeeCee (49:00):
I will say if I've told the story before, you can stop
me and edit this out.
So I worked with an individualwho was very much highly praised
for doing very like basicthings and not and I don't mean
to be rude, I'm I'm meaning thisin a way of like there was
(49:24):
nothing at the company, so abasic of something was better
than what there was, whichsometimes that's awesome.
But this person kept gettingpraised and praised and praised
and praised and they like got atrip to the President's Club,
they got to go to Hawaii on thecompany dime for like, literally
(49:45):
like just do your job just dotheir job, and not only that,
but doing work that I personallydid earlier in my career like
that caliber of work.
so there is a piece of me that'slike listen, kudos to what has
been created, but is it reallylike a trip to hawaii worth
(50:06):
right?
yeah but anyway, not my, not myrodeo, like you know.
Whatever, we're just gonna letthem do their thing.
And I would get a littlefrustrated.
I get.
I get frustrated when peoplealways say I'm so busy, I'm so
busy, I'm so busy oh, my hair ison fire like I'm just so busy
doing all of the things, all ofthe things busy all the time.
(50:28):
And it just like just shut upand do your work like I don't
need to hear it.
But anyway, this was thisperson's MO, just constantly
being busy.
And I do remember like I workedon a project with them close to
me leaving the organization, andone of the things was like, oh,
we need to do this every year,because every year it needs to
be done.
But whatever, and I'm like,well, if we took the moment to
(50:50):
do it right and make it good andright I don't want to say too
much because of people, but like, let's say, we're creating a
training.
I was like, oh, like we do thistraining every year, people
always complain about it.
No one ever will.
I'm like, let's do it, let's doit right and put some time and
effort into it, and then wewon't have to do it over and
over and over.
So I got put on a project withthis person and this person
(51:11):
literally was like we workedthrough it and they said they
started going to the story abouta Rice Krispie Treats
commercial and I remember, likethere's this Rice Krispie Treats
commercial and I know exactlywhat they were talking about.
They were talking about thiscommercial from the 90s or early
2000s and the mom, like is justoverwhelmed with life and she
(51:32):
was making her family a dessert.
And she was just like is justoverwhelmed with life and she
was making her family a dessert.
And she was just like, oh myGod, like leave me alone, I'm
going to close the door, I'mcooking dessert.
And she opens up a box of thepre-made Rice Krispie Treats in
the wrappers and like unwrapsthem and places them on a plate
and uses that time for likeself-care, like I'm going to
read a book and a magazine.
(51:52):
But then, like before shebrought the plate out to her
family, she's like threw flouron her face and like messed her
hair up.
Like oh mommy, mommy just madelike slaved over.
And she said that's what thisis.
And I said, excuse me, she goes.
No matter what we do, we need tomake it look like we did a lot,
what we do.
(52:14):
We need to make it look like wedid a lot.
And I was like I'm done.
I'm done If this is the personwho gets trips to Hawaii, who
gets promoted, who gets stupidaccolades for doing very
remedial work.
I'm out Like I cannot do this.
And it's like in that momentshe they told me what their game
was and I was and I saw thatperson in a very different light
(52:35):
.
I was like okay, so we're beinga little manipulative and lazy.
And I also saw like theorganization as just being like
this is the behavior we want tocelebrate.
And I was like I actually dotake pride in my work.
I put a lot of effort, I thinkstrategically, I do all of the
(52:56):
things and I wasn't promoted inthree years and I left.
Warren (53:00):
Yeah.
CeeCee (53:03):
And so, anyway, I have an inside joke with a former
co-worker of mine, who we know,this individual, and the joke is
we make soufflés, we don't makeRice Krispie Treat and like
just to you know, we we're, wemake souffles.
Warren (53:22):
I've I've worked with people like that as well, and
it's it's annoying.
CeeCee (53:26):
The balls to tell someone like hey, like the balls
to say it, I was just a littlepissed like the balls to say it.
Warren (53:34):
I was just a little pissed, well.
Well, I'm glad we're ending theshow on a jaded note because
this has been so unjaded overall.
But, like I said, we're both inthe the good times now, so it's
hard to be terribly jaded jadedwith that.
So, yeah, anyways, let's here.
We did our thank yous already,so just want to wrap things up.
(53:55):
Please listen, send reviews.
I discovered recently that wehave reviews on Spotify and
unfortunately they only give usours.
But we got like a 4.5 orsomething rating on Spotify, so
keep that up.
CeeCee (54:07):
Oh no, no, it's a 4.6.
Don't short sell us.
Warren (54:10):
Okay, not going to decline on us and things like
that.
So keep those up, leave them onreview on Apple and we will
read them on the air, but, asalways, morn.
CeeCee (54:23):
Butterscotch Penelope Tulip Pants.
That was your weird thing.
If you listened all the way tothe end, that's what you heard.
Andew Quilpa (54:31):
I don't know who lost.
Weird thing If you listened allthe way to the end, that's what
you heard.
I mean, I didn't lose a lot.
Warren (54:35):
And we're both here helping you survive each of our
one what-the-fuck moments at atime.
Bye.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.