January 24, 2024 • 37 mins
As we navigate the treacherous seas of HR, Warren and I can't help but question the absence of compassion in corporate corridors. This episode exposes the hard truths behind the firing of an employee from Kite Baby—a company that prides itself on family values—simply for requesting remote work to care for her adopted micro-preemie. The uproar that followed on TikTok serves as a stark reminder that the face behind the brand isn't always what it seems. We also shine a light on the pulse surveys trend, revealing how these quick-fire employee feedback tools could be the next revolution—or just another fad—in gauging staff contentment.
Now, let's talk optics and interviewing—two things that should go hand in hand but often don't. A poorly handled GoFundMe campaign can cause more than just a PR hiccup; it can lead to a full-blown identity crisis for brands like Kite Baby. Warren and I dissect the aftermath of their mishap, then pivot to the interviewee's perspective. We share candid tales from our own hiring experiences, drawing from the good, the bad, and the cringeworthy to equip you with the insights you need to bring your true self to your next big opportunity.
Concluding with the darker side of HR, we recount Brittany Peach's ice-cold layoff via video call and debate the ethical quagmire of recorded firings. The emergence of 'fake experts' in HR is also on our radar, prompting a call for vigilance in whom we trust for career counsel. And who could forget the time HR pros sampled CBD products on a rooftop? It sure was a memorable (and somewhat foggy) lesson in the unpredictability of our profession. Hang tight until our next episode, where we hope Feathers will be back from the digital warfront to join Warren and me in dissecting more HR conundrums.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrew Quilpa (00:02):
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password.
(00:23):
Or can I ride up my employeefor crying too much?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to JDDHR.
Warren (00:50):
Welcome to JDDHR, to podcast by two HR professionals
who want to help you get throughto work day by saying all the
things you are thinking, but saythem out loud.
I'm Warren.
Cee Cee (01:00):
I'm CeCe.
Warren (01:01):
All right Back again and Feathers is being attacked by
zombie computers that will notcome, that actually they're dead
, they won't come back to life,but so hopefully we'll see him
in the next episode two moreweeks or so.
But yeah, we have a really coolepisode.
We've been sharing show notestoday and this week and it's got
(01:22):
a good episode for you today.
But let everybody know, thisepisode is brought to you by
Halle, the original JDDHR rockstar and who support us on
Patreon.
So thank you very much for yoursupport.
If you want to be like Halle,just go to our show notes and
you can support us there as well, plus a lot of other
interesting things in our shownotes.
So yay, so how's the last twoweeks been for you?
Cee Cee (01:47):
Pretty good.
Yeah, you know, just hanging inthere, okay.
Warren (01:51):
Yeah.
Cee Cee (01:53):
We're educating people on what pulse surveys are Okay
and just patients hanging on.
But you know all good, we'repushing through, we're doing
continuous listening now.
Andrew Quilpa (02:04):
So at work for engagement surveys.
Cee Cee (02:08):
So you know, trying to introduce some pulse surveys,
not scaring people, it's allgood.
Warren (02:15):
I'll have to pick your brain about pulse surveys Is our
HRS offers them as part of theservice to do them?
Yeah, I just don't think ouremployees are going to be very
high on responding, I don't know.
Yeah, I would love to try that,but we'll see.
So there's been a lot in the HRworld of news the last two
(02:37):
weeks and you found a couple ofreally cool stories.
I want to start with one ofthose.
Cee Cee (02:45):
Okay, so the one that has been living a little
rent-free in my head since, Iread it was.
I don't know if you heard aboutthe whole kite baby situation,
but I didn't really know.
Well, actually I take that back.
The only reason why I know whokite baby is is because of the
targeted ads I get on socialmedia but I guess the best way
(03:06):
to describe it is they're kindof like a bougie organic baby
clothing line and I think whatit.
So what had happened was anemployee of theirs just adopted
a baby and this was like amicro-premie, like the baby is
in the NICU and will be in theNICU for a very long time, and
(03:31):
she had asked if she could workremote, which the NICU, I think,
and where the baby is is aboutsix months away.
So I think she's in Dallas andit's in El Paso and yeah.
So they said no.
They said technically she wasunder the FMLA threshold and she
(03:52):
.
They said the best they could dois two weeks and if she can't
come back after two weeks thenthey're gonna terminate her.
And she was terminated.
And this is a.
This is definitely a baby.
This is a company that pridesitself on being pro baby, pro
mom, pro family.
So it's crazy.
Warren (04:11):
And another piece I found crazy about this story is
everything has played out onTikTok.
It started with the firedemployee's sister posting
something on TikTok and then theemployer I don't think the
employee herself responded onTikTok but the employer made two
apologies, not one, but twoapologies.
(04:31):
If I'm going to make an apologyfirst, I'm gonna call I don't
know the mother's name, I'mgonna call her myself on her
cell phone and say, hey, I'm thepresident, ceo, whatever her
title is of, of kite baby andyeah, oh, we need to talk.
I'd need to apologize, etc.
And then maybe do something onon TikTok and say you know, just
(04:54):
let you know, we've resolvedthis and everybody's happy.
But yeah it.
I think there were just so manyfails in this, this situation.
It's, it's crazy, I don't know.
Like you said, she was thereonly less than a year, so FMLA
technically doesn't apply.
Cee Cee (05:14):
She was there for seven months, seven months.
Warren (05:17):
It I don't see everywhere I've worked in the
past has basically treatedpeople who didn't qualify for
FMLA as if they did.
I mean, what's what's the harm?
Give her up to 12 weeks and Idon't know what her position was
.
Was she a truly missioncritical type position that you
have to be here at a company,can't go on without you a key
(05:37):
personnel, as the FMLA wouldcall them, but I don't get that.
Cee Cee (05:42):
Yeah, so I was trying to figure it out and so here's
what I was piecing togetherthrough.
Everything is this person, hername is Marissa, she worked in
the photo, in the photo likestudio, so I guess, where they
take all the photos and thepromotional stuff.
So I thought maybe she wouldhave been unable, like her job
(06:02):
was it was physically.
Andrew Quilpa (06:04):
They're taking pictures, yeah right.
Cee Cee (06:07):
But then I think in the in the CEO's second apology,
she's admitted to making aselfish decision because that
job has always been in theoffice and she couldn't imagine
it, she couldn't think of analternative.
So that kind of tells me that,yes, she probably could have if
(06:29):
you thought about it.
Warren (06:30):
Yeah, you know, if she's an editor and now if she is the
photographer and their set isin the kite baby offices and
things like that, okay, I cansee that as being partially
legit.
But you can bring in anotherphotographer.
I mean, today, with freakingiPhones, people can take
incredible pictures.
(06:51):
I'm sure you can find somebodywho is even a hobbyist
photographer with some real goodequipment and in their office
that could, you know, makethings happen for a few weeks.
Well, actually I think this wasshe was going to be in the NICU
for six months.
Like I said, it was a micropreemie, but she was going to be
there for six months.
So there's so many things.
(07:12):
In the end of the well, you youcould tell more about the first
apology that got all the peoplefired up.
Oh yeah, do you want to?
Cee Cee (07:22):
okay.
So it was very clear that itwas written by legal or PR and
she seemed like she was justreading it like from a piece of
paper.
It didn't seem sincere.
I think people picked up onthat real fast.
And then the other thing was itwas just like a non-apology and
(07:47):
she ended with the job willfind her a place when she's
ready to return to work, and itwas like she didn't need your
help.
When she's ready, she like sheneeds your help now, like she
needs to work remotely andthat's what she asked for.
So, and also, I don't want tocome back to you like when I'm
ready to return to work.
Warren (08:05):
Exactly, yeah, and I would bet this lady probably has
10 job offers already right now.
Yeah, you want to work fromhome right now, from the NICU?
I've got the job for you andshe doesn't need to.
And plus, by the time, herattorneys.
They didn't do anything illegal, I guess.
No, it just looks ugly.
The optics are very bad,especially for if you're in this
(08:28):
industry.
If you were, I don't know madehammers or screwdriver,
something like that probably notthe same reaction that people
get, but when you build a brandaround babies and family, it's
just yeah, optics that are notgood at all.
Cee Cee (08:44):
It doesn't align.
And I think the icing on thecake is I don't know if you
heard about the GoFundMe, butshe has.
Marissa the employee gotterminated.
I think she set up a GoFundMe Iwant to say it was prior to her
being terminated but in eithercase, it's just for the medical
uh, the medical costs for thebaby in the NICU and I think she
(09:05):
set it at like 50 grand just tosee if she could get like some
money.
And I think the the viral pieceof this.
She's now at, I think, almost90 grand because people are just
throwing money at her.
And the really funny part is,if you look down the donors,
it's a lot of kite babies,direct competitors so it's it's,
(09:28):
and it's like they're puttingtheir names there.
So it's really funny to see kitebabies competitors being like
here's you know, two thousanddollars, here's a thousand
dollars, like all this kind ofstuff, and that, I think, is the
funniest piece oh yeah, yeahit's, they'll recover, I'm sure,
but it, the optics of it,looked really bad and you're
setting the tone for your otheremployees.
Warren (09:49):
You know, ooh, they did this to her.
What are they gonna do to me?
And yeah, it's, it's not gonnait's not gonna end well it's
just growth, like you said.
Cee Cee (10:00):
It's not illegal.
It just doesn't feel good,right it.
Warren (10:05):
Yeah, I'm sure they had other options and hopefully,
hopefully, they learned theirlesson and the third apology
will be a genuine one from oh mygosh CEO just needed to take a
break from social media for asecond, no more oh, and we were
talking offline.
That that's how this kite babygrew from that person's social
(10:26):
media.
So she knows social media, sheknows the ins and outs of it and
she knows how much of a bitchit can be.
There's a little turn on you ina heartbeat if you, if you do
something like that, and I thinkthat she's about to see that.
That see that.
Sorry, I did not see any of thevideos.
I just read Suzanne Lucas'sarticle on it and so I just read
her quotes on it and her takeon it and wow, just just crazy
(10:51):
and I will say, before I move on, that this is a company that I
think I read it was 30 peoplelarge.
It's not a huge company so theFMLA wouldn't even apply there
if she was there a year yeah,and also I don't think they have
an in-house HR.
Cee Cee (11:08):
It was, the decision was just made by the CEO.
Warren (11:10):
That's how small they are so I was just saying this
could have played out a littledifferently if you had someone
just on our side a competent HRperson who knew well actually
I'm going to skip on my listhere because, talking about
competent HR people, our friendDan from atraw.
(11:30):
He has first, if you don'tsubscribe to him on tiktok, you
have to.
He's fantastic, drop dead,hilarious and he's so I don't
know, he, he, he.
Anyways, he subscribed to himon TikTok.
I don't have TikTok, but Istill watch him on Instagram
every once in a while and Icatch up on, I get shared his
(11:52):
stuff all the time Anyways.
So this is sort of a little backand forth between day and from
HR.
Day and space is his name.
And, um, anyways, this writerher name is Erin Mcgolf.
She wrote an article titled thenumber one job interview phrase
that will set you apart fromeveryone else's career experts.
(12:13):
It's the most powerful and it'sa short article on MSNBC and
the phrase is the one thing thatexcites me about this role is
blank and she says it makes yousound more confident, it's
positive and shows yourcapability, it demonstrates your
research and preparation.
And so Dan, who, who's good atonline busting bad career advice
(12:37):
is, he said that that's alittle ableist and we should
caution people not to use orjudge that language as it is not
inclusive to neurodiversepeople who may not understand or
be able to articulateexcitement.
Number two, if you'reinterviewing, the hiring manager
knows that you're interested.
Saying it doesn't really make adifference.
And three, it does not offerany other benefits outlined here
(12:59):
and research.
I'll just hit each of those aremy thing.
It doesn't make you sound morecomfortable.
No, I don't like when someoneis in an interview.
I spent many years recruiting.
I still do a little bit.
I'm a little bit involved now,but when I feel they're giving
me a can dancer and when you'retelling them to here's a can
dancer for you, uh, uh, to do it, it it recruiters, we hear that
(13:23):
stuff all the time and it getsold very quickly.
So, whatever the newest ticktock trend and interviewing, I'm
sure recruiters are hearing alot of it.
But in terms of research, Iabsolutely hate when, in the
course of a interview, aprospective employee is trying
to think that they know moreabout the company now than you
(13:44):
do.
Is they read you on socialmedia and they did their, they
tried to do their homework andand things like that.
I I at the job I'm at now, Iinterviewed and I I applied.
Whatever day it was, Iinterviewed like two days later
and I didn't do a ton ofhomework, but I've read their
website and I cut to the officeearly.
I'm in their parking lotlooking at their website,
(14:06):
looking at our social media andI just happened to mention
something oh yeah, we're not inour that industry anymore, but
she knew it was on her on thewebpage and things like that.
So that, yeah, it's not goodwith that.
My name was, I replied to Dan'spost and then here was my
response.
When any article starts with thenumber one blank or I'm an HR
(14:28):
expert blank, that tells methat's clickbait and there's no
value in the article other thanbeing fodder for ridicule and
scorn.
Secondly, the second line ofher bio tells me the writer
isn't going to add any valuebecause their measure of value
is how many followers they have,not the quality of her content.
And her literal headline on herLinkedIn profile is founder of
advice with it, with Aaron 4.5million viewers on followers on
(14:53):
social media, etc.
Career and life-advanceddocumentary filmmaker.
So if your number one thing ishow many followers you have,
it's that's telling me.
All I need to know is that'show you're basing your, your
value to the world, based on howmany followers you have I'm I'm
proud to say I'm down to under200 on my personal all of them
(15:15):
trimming people left right upand down, and I hope to get down
to under 100 sometime soon, butanyways.
Cee Cee (15:22):
It's a privilege to be your follower.
Warren (15:25):
Yes, dan goes on.
He says I have nothing againstAaron Mcgolf.
She's blocked me on every app.
She's even proactively blockedme on one of his other accounts
that I favored one of her mostharmful videos.
She's also blocked every otherrecruiter, hiring manager and HR
person who has called her outon her bad advice, since she is
unable to face or acknowledgethat she has made a tremendous
(15:45):
amount of success in a subjectshe has no experience in.
And he goes on and on aboutthat.
And then a CNBC actually hiredher for this and he tagged CNBC.
You're promoting a scam artistlike her LinkedIn profile.
I don't think she's ever had afull-time job, nevermind one in
three roles of a company thatactually makes hiring decisions
(16:06):
a hiring manager, hr, arecruiter.
All of her work is contractintern or nanny.
So I was like damn.
Cee Cee (16:14):
Oh my God, Dan from HR is doing the Lord's work.
Warren (16:16):
Yes, he is, yeah, so that really got to me.
It's just once again, hr gets abad rap and it's people like
this who give it a bad rap.
Oh yeah, we'll have a pizzaparty and we'll do this and
everybody will be happy and Ionly fly for that easy, for that
.
Cee Cee (16:36):
Yeah, it's funny too, because that advice of like,
tell people what you're excitedabout, that's advice my mom
would give me if I was going ona job.
That's not groundbreaking,that's not good, it's not
groundbreaking, it's nothing.
Warren (16:53):
Here.
I'm going to actually read outloud and this person will
forgive me, I'm sure Aconversation we had who's going
on to interview they're overtheir job and I'm not going to
name the person it goes.
Any advice?
I have an interview thisafternoon and I tagged this
article as I just read it andsent it to him.
(17:14):
I said here's a complete BSarticle that won't help.
I said otherwise just beyourself, no profanity or
flatulence and everything willbe good.
And I said good luck.
So if you don't mind, I'llcontinue on one more, because I
think, if you think about Ithink last week in the episode I
talked about it had youactually read the emails part of
(17:36):
our intro.
Well, this this I'm thinkingthis whole episode is going to
be the views of these HR expertsis not the opinions of their
past, present or futureemployers.
Well, another person who's beenon the podcast, david Miklis.
He wrote on LinkedIn on January17th.
This was so funny.
Be careful when delisting topodcasts by hashtag HR
(17:59):
professionals.
I recently heard a podcast byan HR professional who stated
the consequences of filingviolating the FLSA were
basically only fines and fees.
This is incorrect.
In fact, most significantly,significant liability does not
come from civil monetarypenalties, but rather from
unpaid wages and liquidateddamages.
Both things get.
(18:20):
Both of these things go back tothe employee, not the
government.
I'm all for human resourcesunderstanding employment law,
but when it comes to educatingother HR professionals in HR
laws, it's a best practice tolead it to the employment
lawyers.
Don't get me wrong there's someamazing HR professionals out
there providing excellentcontent on a variety of topics,
and I encourage them to continueto do so.
(18:41):
And it's sort of funny as hegoes on in one of the commenters
with what HR podcasts youlisten to, and he mentioned
jaded HR.
So thank you, david, that'sawesome.
Yeah, I among others, butthat's the exact thing.
If you're taking anything thatI, cc or feathers say as the
(19:01):
word of the HR Lord, you've gotproblems.
Andrew Quilpa (19:04):
Good luck.
Warren (19:06):
You are probably going to end up fired and sued if you
do what we say.
This isn't that type of podcastand I hope that comes through
loud and clear.
But I was going to make somesort of snot comment.
It wasn't jaded HR.
Cee Cee (19:21):
Funny.
I was laughing like speaking ofHR experts and I don't think
this person.
I'm going to go out on a limband say this person was not
working in HR, but she kneweverything there was to know
about HR.
Yeah, and I don't know what itwas.
It was like a video orsomething on Instagram and
people were like commenting backand forth.
I had to do with maternityleave in the US.
And this woman was like, well,you know, that's against the law
(19:44):
.
The US is mandated to give paidmaternity leave.
And I was like like, stop backup, excuse me.
So then I questioned it andshe's like well, every job I did
.
And then I was like like I wentback and forth with her like
once or twice and I'm like, oh,I understand what's happening.
Now you don't know what you'retalking about.
(20:05):
But you think, you do, I'm goingto go do something else with my
life.
We're good.
But yeah, it was like thiswhole back and forth of like
it's a mandate, they have toprovide it and I'm like, no, no,
they don't, we don't have to doanything.
Warren (20:18):
See, I really have to hold myself back when I was on
social media.
But we're about engaging thosepeople Because I can.
I can be like a dog with a bone, you know I I am part of
baseball for 15 years and one ofthe sayings they say is arguing
with the umpires like mudwrestling with a pig.
It's cool and all, until yourealize pig likes it.
So I could get myself inserious trouble and damage by
(20:40):
arguing with people with thesestupid things and employees.
Well, my last company say toour department did this, I don't
care what they did, they did itwrong it was incorrect.
Yeah, and or my, my, my wife'scompany HR person says this well
, they said it wrong, yeah,anyways.
Well, while we're still kickingaround social media, you got
(21:03):
another tiki toki story.
Cee Cee (21:06):
So this girl her name's Brittany Peach and she was
getting terminated, like it waslike a mass layoff situation and
I guess she knew it was comingbecause it was one of those
situations where everyone wasgetting like these random 15
minute interviews like on theircalendar, meetings on their
calendar, and then she wouldhear from the grapevine of the
(21:29):
people before her that they weregetting termed, they're so this
, this woman came guns blazingand I do have to say this was a
masterclass on how not to firesomebody, because I mean, it was
every single thing.
Now, I've never had to fireanybody, luckily, like I've
never had to terminate, I'venever had to be part of one of
those conversations.
(21:50):
But as someone who's donelearning and development, this
goes against everything thatI've taught.
So, and I think the one thingwas, you know, it wasn't even
her manager on the call and itwasn't even her HRBP on the call
.
It was two people who she hadnever met before in the company
coming in to have thisconversation.
Like, hey, just to let you know, we were looking through the
(22:12):
calibrations.
We realized that you're kind ofthe bottom tier of performance
amongst, so we're just lettingall these people in this little
area go, because you know you'reall bottom performers.
And she kind of came withreceipts.
She was like who are you?
I never met you.
Where's my manager?
My manager has never given menegative feedback.
Again, number one rule is likethe performance should never be
(22:35):
a surprise.
And it was just like this wholething of like.
And finally she was like Canyou tell me why?
Me and this is why I rememberedher name, because she was like
Can you tell me why BrittanyPeach is getting fired?
And they're like oh, we can'tget into the like, we can't get
into the details.
And it was like what, what ishappening?
So the whole call deteriorated.
It was very cringey to watch,not because of her, more so
(22:56):
because of the two professionalsthat were on the other line.
Again, masterclass on what notto do when you're terminating
somebody.
Warren (23:05):
Yeah, I did not watch the video myself.
Once again, I have to rely onSusan Lucas to read her articles
every single day, but on hertake on it so, and they tried to
play it off as a layoff or aperformance.
And then they say it's a layoff.
And then they went online.
Sam Flare went online.
Oh, we're not doing any layoffs, and the whole thing just I
(23:27):
don't know got it's weird in somany different ways.
If you're doing a layoff, justdo a layoff.
And Suzanne Lucas said thisonly on FGO on the reasons why
Make it short and sweet.
Hey, the company is doing areduction for us.
You were selected for that, ortoday is your last day, or
whatever.
You want to say three lines orless and that's all you have to
(23:49):
do.
But if you're trying to tie itto performance a lot, okay, get
my soapbox lying and never getto anywhere.
It's your bottom performer.
Well, how?
Show me how I'm a bottomperformer?
What stats, what data?
And they don't.
They didn't do their homework.
If you're gonna lie, at leastcome up with something.
Cee Cee (24:10):
Yeah, I mean like if she called it, she kind of
called it out because I thinkshe could see right through it
and she said so I like notverbatim, but she basically said
, like I kind of see rightthrough this.
What you're saying is you'vehired too many people and now
you can't afford us.
Andrew Quilpa (24:26):
So now you're letting us go, and it was like
girl, like she.
Cee Cee (24:30):
Yeah, that's probably what was happening, because if
we're taking what she's sayingas truth and her manager has
given her nothing but positiveperformance and like she's never
had a write up, she's never hadlike a pip, she's never had any
kind of that constructionfeedback, constructive feedback,
then this is not.
This is not a termination ofperformance.
Warren (24:53):
Exactly, and I don't know what state this took place
in, but nowadays so many statesare I mean even making it for
performance.
Unless you do something ungodly, you're still going to get
unemployment.
So it's not even like it'sgonna.
It's gonna do anything, just so, just call it what it is to lay
off, sorry, you know.
Better luck next time, orwhatever you want to say, but
(25:17):
just, I don't know the lying andthe continual.
I'm assuming you saw the video.
Cee Cee (25:22):
Yes.
Warren (25:23):
How did she record this video of her getting terminated
Was like were she physicallylive in the office with them, or
is it done online or no, shewas online.
Cee Cee (25:34):
She looked like she was a remote worker and she had her
phone like propped up, so itwas like it was on her, but like
obviously you couldn't see whowas on the screen.
So, Okay, you just saw her.
Warren (25:45):
Interesting, interesting , and Suzanne Lucas did mention
always assume you're beingrecorded and, yep, you are.
In this case you were beingrecorded, it's just wow.
And Soundflare, I want to saywe've discussed some other HR
issues with them in the past.
One day, I'm gonna actuallyhave to create a little database
of you know our companiesbesides Chipotle we talk about
(26:06):
on regularly, so I can.
Oh yeah, we talked aboutSoundflare once upon a time, so
that's yeah, like I said,masterclass in class and what
not to do.
Real quick, I have two morethings I think we can cover
today, but I talked about goingback into the archives of JDDHR.
(26:28):
Well, going way back to seasonone, episode five, from 2020,
april of 2020.
The episode was infinitesimalPTO numbers for a scary HR
timeline.
So I talked about an employeewho was so concerned about the
difference in PTO between thetimekeeping system and the
(26:48):
payroll system, which were twodifferent systems.
The timekeeping system went tofour decimal places and, for
whatever stupid reason, in thepayroll system, only went to two
, and so over the course of hisentire tenure there, he'd been
shorted about 10 minutes of PTO,about 10 minutes.
(27:08):
And no, I talked to thepresident about that.
He said, well, he could justtake that 10 minutes anytime he
pleases.
Well, he's back and so, okay,there was a mistake made on HR's
part and I owned that, eventhough I didn't do it, but I
owned it and set up it was his401k for 2024.
(27:29):
He always contributes the maxand it went up a whopping $500
this year for the year that youcan contribute, or 401k.
So he comes in.
He's like he's, like you know,very upset.
So I had a time to calm himdown and anything.
And once I found out what theproblem was, I looked and I was
like, oh, wow, this didn't gothrough.
So I said we'll fix it.
How do you, would you like tofix it?
(27:49):
We can do one time checkout.
We can divvy up the nextdifference over the remaining
amount you contribute over tothe next 25 pay periods.
Now let me tell you $500 here,26 pay periods.
It's less than $20 a total andI understand it being
frustrating, but I think it's agood idea.
I understand it beingfrustrating, but it's not
anything to get upset about $20.
(28:10):
And he's not paid poorly by anystretch of the imagination, so
that $20 was not it, but justthe fact that you would get okay
.
Mistakes happen and I understandthat payroll is a super
sensitive.
The most personal thing HR evertouches on employees lives is
their payroll.
But I'm not going to build myhill on $20 of difference.
(28:36):
I mean, I was willing to justthrow $20 out of myself to get
them out of my office after 10minutes.
So this was not a shortconversation and I was like,
okay, we'll fix it, we can fixit, this is fixable, we can do
this, but anyways, that was partof my week last week, and so my
final story of the day comesfrom James Hudson on LinkedIn,
(29:02):
and he too is trashing some ofthese HR experts on LinkedIn.
So he writes look, I think it'swonderful you got hired into a
fang company, which I had to.
Google means Facebook, amazon,gosh, what's the other a?
I forget Netflix and Google oneof those high tech companies.
They was excited.
It's great you got hired to afang company despite having poor
(29:24):
grades, or that you're reallygood at video editing, social
media and you know how to rock ablazer and a corporate haircut,
and these are great stories andfun gimmicks.
It doesn't mean you're in aposition to speak from a place
of authority on how hiringactually works.
If you want to learn how tomake Hollandaise sauce properly,
would you rather learn from achef that makes it every day or
from someone who's been to arestaurant a couple of times and
(29:46):
just really enjoys talkingabout Hollandaise sauce on the
internet?
All these influencers and quotesare just looking to grow their
own brands by producing totallyerroneous clickbait.
At worst, they're hoping tosell to desperate people, often
at astronomical prices, forgenuine, helpful, accurate
advice, follow any of theseaccounts, and Dan from HR was
(30:07):
that's how I found it.
He was linked to that article.
It's I think 2024 is shaping upto be the year of the expert in
quotes who doesn't know whatthe hell they're doing.
So I can't say enough if you'regoing to get some HR advice
online, do your homework.
(30:28):
Know somebody, ask somebody whoknows what they're talking
about.
Don't just say, oh, thisperson's got a million followers
on LinkedIn or Facebook,instagram, whatever it is.
They have to know.
And no, it's quite often theexact opposite.
Cee Cee (30:44):
They just they don't know.
Warren (30:46):
They don't know and for the most part.
So I'm going to dub 2024 theyear of the fake expert.
Let's see if they can prove mewrong.
And that's my expert analysisfor this.
Anyways, that is all, I'll goahead.
Cee Cee (31:01):
I was going to say I think you're right, but I also
hope you're wrong.
Warren (31:04):
It'll be fun if I'm right.
Cee Cee (31:06):
It would be.
It would be.
There's so many out there.
Warren (31:10):
Plenty of fodder.
Cee Cee (31:12):
Like yeah, net, net.
Linkedin has become such acesspool of it is just self self
loving experts.
Warren (31:21):
And oh, I one of these comments to.
I think I replied to JamesHudson's comments and, hey, I
would love to.
He was going to talk aboutmaking a list of people you
should be following for realcareer advice and I said why
don't we make a list of theseshysters and put them out there?
And he says, oh, you know he'sbetter than that.
And of course he is.
I'm not.
I would call these peopleothers.
(31:45):
One person I don't know how.
You know, I spend my free timeat work on LinkedIn.
I don't know how she peopleshare her stuff and it's not
that she's a phony HR person,it's just all of her advice is
sunshine and roses and littlekitten posters and things like
that.
Okay, that's great, but there'sno content there.
There's no, you know, and sheposts like ridiculous.
(32:07):
And so many people share herstuff but like I don't want to
see this anymore.
It's like it's everywhere.
But yeah, it's, it's, it's alittle crazy online.
Cee Cee (32:18):
Yeah, I will say it's not just online.
There's in, like my, my localmarket, where I am, there is a.
There's an individual who Iused to work with in a corporate
setting who went off and theykind of did their own thing to
become a consultant.
Warren (32:34):
Okay.
Cee Cee (32:34):
Which I have mixed feelings about.
I have mixed opinions about,very strong mixed opinions about
, but it was like eight yearssince we've worked together I'm
more than that.
It was like eight, nine yearsand I saw him do his spiel at a
big conference locally and hewas doing the same stuff he was
doing eight years ago.
Andrew Quilpa (32:54):
Like he and.
Cee Cee (32:54):
I worked together and like people were like doting him
, as this you know reallytalented expert guru, yada, yada
, yada, and I was just like, andI was sitting in the front row,
but at that point I was just, Iwas being an ass, just kind of
leaned back.
I leaned back in my chair,across my arms, and just stared
at him and just started like Ihad this grin on my face cause I
(33:16):
knew exactly what he was doing.
I think I shook him a littlebit cause he like did screw up
the activity and I was likethere you go.
But I mean like, come on, it'slike you're selling the same
stuff you've sold for nine yearsor whatever.
I'm like this is, this isinsane.
Warren (33:33):
Well, that's part of the HR speaker circuit.
It's just so bad with peoplethat are repeating the same
thing and once you've seen JohnDoe once, at the whatever
seminar you go to, you know twoyears later you see him at
another seminar, different brand, everything same story and it's
like okay, I'm over thisalready.
And the speaker circuit for HRoverall is pure awful and that's
(33:58):
why I don't go to conferences.
My boss even asked me last yeardo you want to go to any
national conference?
I'm like no, I don't.
You can save your money, I canspend your money elsewhere, and
things like that.
That's not, I'm not going toget anything out of it.
Cee Cee (34:13):
So I will say I did like I did go to SHRM.
I know there's like a love haterelationship with SHRM.
I did go to the SHRM conferencea few years ago in Vegas and
that was that was a good time.
I mean I just I went alonecause no one else at work was
available and I ended up likemeeting other people and it was
a party Like I could.
(34:34):
I mean, let me just tell forthose who don't know HR, people
are unhinged when there's like abunch of them and alcohol, it's
just like they are the.
They are the biggest partiersthat you will ever find and I
had a blast.
I will go again.
Let's go.
Warren (34:55):
You're going to Chicago this year now.
Cee Cee (35:00):
Unfortunately, I think I'm gonna have a newborn at some
point, so I can't.
Warren (35:04):
Yeah, I, if there was one that was convenient.
I know they only hold it inthese mega cities and none of
them are.
I think one year is in DC, butthat that's like five hours away
from me.
But I'm not gonna go to.
If it's not convenient, I'm notgonna.
I'm not gonna waste my time,but just to go to shirm the
national conference.
(35:24):
I know we're over time andwhatever, but who cares the go
to the national conference it'slike five thousand dollars for a
person between the admission,the airfare hotels, the hotels
jack up their prices and thingslike that or whatever they're,
and it's just like I have a lotof other things I can do with
five thousand dollars, yeah, andbe missing out on work.
(35:47):
So I get home back from work, Ihave to do two weeks of work in
one week, so now, no, thank youon that.
Cee Cee (35:55):
Yeah maybe Maybe on another, maybe on another
episode.
I will go into my my shirm.
Was it my shirm wildings?
Warren (36:04):
that happened back a few years ago, because but what
happened to biggest does notstay in Vegas no, it does not.
Cee Cee (36:11):
And it was fantastic.
I felt like I was living somelike crazy movie.
I'm like this is a shirmconference.
I'm in like let's just do it.
Warren (36:19):
It was at the biggest one I've read.
Oh gosh, there was some podcastHR podcaster.
The company was promoting CBDproducts and they had Samplings
on the rooftop of some hotel andwas like all these HR people
just stoned out of their minds.
I forget.
I heard about it on somepodcast once upon a time, I
don't remember which one.
(36:40):
I'd love to give credit to thepeople but are like yeah, that's
a great thing to do you want toknow.
Yeah, alrighty.
Well, that's gonna wrap us upfor today.
We come back in two weeks andhopefully there'll be the three
amigos again and see what we canmake happen then.
In the meantime, our bestpractice will be You're not an
(37:01):
expert, even if you think youare.
Give it up, try something else.
But as always, I'm Warren.
I'm CC and we're here helpingyou survive HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password.
(00:23):
Or can I ride up my employeefor crying too much?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to JDDHR.
Warren (00:50):
Welcome to JDDHR, to podcast by two HR professionals
who want to help you get throughto work day by saying all the
things you are thinking, but saythem out loud.
I'm Warren.
Cee Cee (01:00):
I'm CeCe.
Warren (01:01):
All right Back again and Feathers is being attacked by
zombie computers that will notcome, that actually they're dead
, they won't come back to life,but so hopefully we'll see him
in the next episode two moreweeks or so.
But yeah, we have a really coolepisode.
We've been sharing show notestoday and this week and it's got
(01:22):
a good episode for you today.
But let everybody know, thisepisode is brought to you by
Halle, the original JDDHR rockstar and who support us on
Patreon.
So thank you very much for yoursupport.
If you want to be like Halle,just go to our show notes and
you can support us there as well, plus a lot of other
interesting things in our shownotes.
So yay, so how's the last twoweeks been for you?
Cee Cee (01:47):
Pretty good.
Yeah, you know, just hanging inthere, okay.
Warren (01:51):
Yeah.
Cee Cee (01:53):
We're educating people on what pulse surveys are Okay
and just patients hanging on.
But you know all good, we'repushing through, we're doing
continuous listening now.
Andrew Quilpa (02:04):
So at work for engagement surveys.
Cee Cee (02:08):
So you know, trying to introduce some pulse surveys,
not scaring people, it's allgood.
Warren (02:15):
I'll have to pick your brain about pulse surveys Is our
HRS offers them as part of theservice to do them?
Yeah, I just don't think ouremployees are going to be very
high on responding, I don't know.
Yeah, I would love to try that,but we'll see.
So there's been a lot in the HRworld of news the last two
(02:37):
weeks and you found a couple ofreally cool stories.
I want to start with one ofthose.
Cee Cee (02:45):
Okay, so the one that has been living a little
rent-free in my head since, Iread it was.
I don't know if you heard aboutthe whole kite baby situation,
but I didn't really know.
Well, actually I take that back.
The only reason why I know whokite baby is is because of the
targeted ads I get on socialmedia but I guess the best way
(03:06):
to describe it is they're kindof like a bougie organic baby
clothing line and I think whatit.
So what had happened was anemployee of theirs just adopted
a baby and this was like amicro-premie, like the baby is
in the NICU and will be in theNICU for a very long time, and
(03:31):
she had asked if she could workremote, which the NICU, I think,
and where the baby is is aboutsix months away.
So I think she's in Dallas andit's in El Paso and yeah.
So they said no.
They said technically she wasunder the FMLA threshold and she
(03:52):
.
They said the best they could dois two weeks and if she can't
come back after two weeks thenthey're gonna terminate her.
And she was terminated.
And this is a.
This is definitely a baby.
This is a company that pridesitself on being pro baby, pro
mom, pro family.
So it's crazy.
Warren (04:11):
And another piece I found crazy about this story is
everything has played out onTikTok.
It started with the firedemployee's sister posting
something on TikTok and then theemployer I don't think the
employee herself responded onTikTok but the employer made two
apologies, not one, but twoapologies.
(04:31):
If I'm going to make an apologyfirst, I'm gonna call I don't
know the mother's name, I'mgonna call her myself on her
cell phone and say, hey, I'm thepresident, ceo, whatever her
title is of, of kite baby andyeah, oh, we need to talk.
I'd need to apologize, etc.
And then maybe do something onon TikTok and say you know, just
(04:54):
let you know, we've resolvedthis and everybody's happy.
But yeah it.
I think there were just so manyfails in this, this situation.
It's, it's crazy, I don't know.
Like you said, she was thereonly less than a year, so FMLA
technically doesn't apply.
Cee Cee (05:14):
She was there for seven months, seven months.
Warren (05:17):
It I don't see everywhere I've worked in the
past has basically treatedpeople who didn't qualify for
FMLA as if they did.
I mean, what's what's the harm?
Give her up to 12 weeks and Idon't know what her position was
.
Was she a truly missioncritical type position that you
have to be here at a company,can't go on without you a key
(05:37):
personnel, as the FMLA wouldcall them, but I don't get that.
Cee Cee (05:42):
Yeah, so I was trying to figure it out and so here's
what I was piecing togetherthrough.
Everything is this person, hername is Marissa, she worked in
the photo, in the photo likestudio, so I guess, where they
take all the photos and thepromotional stuff.
So I thought maybe she wouldhave been unable, like her job
(06:02):
was it was physically.
Andrew Quilpa (06:04):
They're taking pictures, yeah right.
Cee Cee (06:07):
But then I think in the in the CEO's second apology,
she's admitted to making aselfish decision because that
job has always been in theoffice and she couldn't imagine
it, she couldn't think of analternative.
So that kind of tells me that,yes, she probably could have if
(06:29):
you thought about it.
Warren (06:30):
Yeah, you know, if she's an editor and now if she is the
photographer and their set isin the kite baby offices and
things like that, okay, I cansee that as being partially
legit.
But you can bring in anotherphotographer.
I mean, today, with freakingiPhones, people can take
incredible pictures.
(06:51):
I'm sure you can find somebodywho is even a hobbyist
photographer with some real goodequipment and in their office
that could, you know, makethings happen for a few weeks.
Well, actually I think this wasshe was going to be in the NICU
for six months.
Like I said, it was a micropreemie, but she was going to be
there for six months.
So there's so many things.
(07:12):
In the end of the well, you youcould tell more about the first
apology that got all the peoplefired up.
Oh yeah, do you want to?
Cee Cee (07:22):
okay.
So it was very clear that itwas written by legal or PR and
she seemed like she was justreading it like from a piece of
paper.
It didn't seem sincere.
I think people picked up onthat real fast.
And then the other thing was itwas just like a non-apology and
(07:47):
she ended with the job willfind her a place when she's
ready to return to work, and itwas like she didn't need your
help.
When she's ready, she like sheneeds your help now, like she
needs to work remotely andthat's what she asked for.
So, and also, I don't want tocome back to you like when I'm
ready to return to work.
Warren (08:05):
Exactly, yeah, and I would bet this lady probably has
10 job offers already right now.
Yeah, you want to work fromhome right now, from the NICU?
I've got the job for you andshe doesn't need to.
And plus, by the time, herattorneys.
They didn't do anything illegal, I guess.
No, it just looks ugly.
The optics are very bad,especially for if you're in this
(08:28):
industry.
If you were, I don't know madehammers or screwdriver,
something like that probably notthe same reaction that people
get, but when you build a brandaround babies and family, it's
just yeah, optics that are notgood at all.
Cee Cee (08:44):
It doesn't align.
And I think the icing on thecake is I don't know if you
heard about the GoFundMe, butshe has.
Marissa the employee gotterminated.
I think she set up a GoFundMe Iwant to say it was prior to her
being terminated but in eithercase, it's just for the medical
uh, the medical costs for thebaby in the NICU and I think she
(09:05):
set it at like 50 grand just tosee if she could get like some
money.
And I think the the viral pieceof this.
She's now at, I think, almost90 grand because people are just
throwing money at her.
And the really funny part is,if you look down the donors,
it's a lot of kite babies,direct competitors so it's it's,
(09:28):
and it's like they're puttingtheir names there.
So it's really funny to see kitebabies competitors being like
here's you know, two thousanddollars, here's a thousand
dollars, like all this kind ofstuff, and that, I think, is the
funniest piece oh yeah, yeahit's, they'll recover, I'm sure,
but it, the optics of it,looked really bad and you're
setting the tone for your otheremployees.
Warren (09:49):
You know, ooh, they did this to her.
What are they gonna do to me?
And yeah, it's, it's not gonnait's not gonna end well it's
just growth, like you said.
Cee Cee (10:00):
It's not illegal.
It just doesn't feel good,right it.
Warren (10:05):
Yeah, I'm sure they had other options and hopefully,
hopefully, they learned theirlesson and the third apology
will be a genuine one from oh mygosh CEO just needed to take a
break from social media for asecond, no more oh, and we were
talking offline.
That that's how this kite babygrew from that person's social
(10:26):
media.
So she knows social media, sheknows the ins and outs of it and
she knows how much of a bitchit can be.
There's a little turn on you ina heartbeat if you, if you do
something like that, and I thinkthat she's about to see that.
That see that.
Sorry, I did not see any of thevideos.
I just read Suzanne Lucas'sarticle on it and so I just read
her quotes on it and her takeon it and wow, just just crazy
(10:51):
and I will say, before I move on, that this is a company that I
think I read it was 30 peoplelarge.
It's not a huge company so theFMLA wouldn't even apply there
if she was there a year yeah,and also I don't think they have
an in-house HR.
Cee Cee (11:08):
It was, the decision was just made by the CEO.
Warren (11:10):
That's how small they are so I was just saying this
could have played out a littledifferently if you had someone
just on our side a competent HRperson who knew well actually
I'm going to skip on my listhere because, talking about
competent HR people, our friendDan from atraw.
(11:30):
He has first, if you don'tsubscribe to him on tiktok, you
have to.
He's fantastic, drop dead,hilarious and he's so I don't
know, he, he, he.
Anyways, he subscribed to himon TikTok.
I don't have TikTok, but Istill watch him on Instagram
every once in a while and Icatch up on, I get shared his
(11:52):
stuff all the time Anyways.
So this is sort of a little backand forth between day and from
HR.
Day and space is his name.
And, um, anyways, this writerher name is Erin Mcgolf.
She wrote an article titled thenumber one job interview phrase
that will set you apart fromeveryone else's career experts.
(12:13):
It's the most powerful and it'sa short article on MSNBC and
the phrase is the one thing thatexcites me about this role is
blank and she says it makes yousound more confident, it's
positive and shows yourcapability, it demonstrates your
research and preparation.
And so Dan, who, who's good atonline busting bad career advice
(12:37):
is, he said that that's alittle ableist and we should
caution people not to use orjudge that language as it is not
inclusive to neurodiversepeople who may not understand or
be able to articulateexcitement.
Number two, if you'reinterviewing, the hiring manager
knows that you're interested.
Saying it doesn't really make adifference.
And three, it does not offerany other benefits outlined here
(12:59):
and research.
I'll just hit each of those aremy thing.
It doesn't make you sound morecomfortable.
No, I don't like when someoneis in an interview.
I spent many years recruiting.
I still do a little bit.
I'm a little bit involved now,but when I feel they're giving
me a can dancer and when you'retelling them to here's a can
dancer for you, uh, uh, to do it, it it recruiters, we hear that
(13:23):
stuff all the time and it getsold very quickly.
So, whatever the newest ticktock trend and interviewing, I'm
sure recruiters are hearing alot of it.
But in terms of research, Iabsolutely hate when, in the
course of a interview, aprospective employee is trying
to think that they know moreabout the company now than you
(13:44):
do.
Is they read you on socialmedia and they did their, they
tried to do their homework andand things like that.
I I at the job I'm at now, Iinterviewed and I I applied.
Whatever day it was, Iinterviewed like two days later
and I didn't do a ton ofhomework, but I've read their
website and I cut to the officeearly.
I'm in their parking lotlooking at their website,
(14:06):
looking at our social media andI just happened to mention
something oh yeah, we're not inour that industry anymore, but
she knew it was on her on thewebpage and things like that.
So that, yeah, it's not goodwith that.
My name was, I replied to Dan'spost and then here was my
response.
When any article starts with thenumber one blank or I'm an HR
(14:28):
expert blank, that tells methat's clickbait and there's no
value in the article other thanbeing fodder for ridicule and
scorn.
Secondly, the second line ofher bio tells me the writer
isn't going to add any valuebecause their measure of value
is how many followers they have,not the quality of her content.
And her literal headline on herLinkedIn profile is founder of
advice with it, with Aaron 4.5million viewers on followers on
(14:53):
social media, etc.
Career and life-advanceddocumentary filmmaker.
So if your number one thing ishow many followers you have,
it's that's telling me.
All I need to know is that'show you're basing your, your
value to the world, based on howmany followers you have I'm I'm
proud to say I'm down to under200 on my personal all of them
(15:15):
trimming people left right upand down, and I hope to get down
to under 100 sometime soon, butanyways.
Cee Cee (15:22):
It's a privilege to be your follower.
Warren (15:25):
Yes, dan goes on.
He says I have nothing againstAaron Mcgolf.
She's blocked me on every app.
She's even proactively blockedme on one of his other accounts
that I favored one of her mostharmful videos.
She's also blocked every otherrecruiter, hiring manager and HR
person who has called her outon her bad advice, since she is
unable to face or acknowledgethat she has made a tremendous
(15:45):
amount of success in a subjectshe has no experience in.
And he goes on and on aboutthat.
And then a CNBC actually hiredher for this and he tagged CNBC.
You're promoting a scam artistlike her LinkedIn profile.
I don't think she's ever had afull-time job, nevermind one in
three roles of a company thatactually makes hiring decisions
(16:06):
a hiring manager, hr, arecruiter.
All of her work is contractintern or nanny.
So I was like damn.
Cee Cee (16:14):
Oh my God, Dan from HR is doing the Lord's work.
Warren (16:16):
Yes, he is, yeah, so that really got to me.
It's just once again, hr gets abad rap and it's people like
this who give it a bad rap.
Oh yeah, we'll have a pizzaparty and we'll do this and
everybody will be happy and Ionly fly for that easy, for that
.
Cee Cee (16:36):
Yeah, it's funny too, because that advice of like,
tell people what you're excitedabout, that's advice my mom
would give me if I was going ona job.
That's not groundbreaking,that's not good, it's not
groundbreaking, it's nothing.
Warren (16:53):
Here.
I'm going to actually read outloud and this person will
forgive me, I'm sure Aconversation we had who's going
on to interview they're overtheir job and I'm not going to
name the person it goes.
Any advice?
I have an interview thisafternoon and I tagged this
article as I just read it andsent it to him.
(17:14):
I said here's a complete BSarticle that won't help.
I said otherwise just beyourself, no profanity or
flatulence and everything willbe good.
And I said good luck.
So if you don't mind, I'llcontinue on one more, because I
think, if you think about Ithink last week in the episode I
talked about it had youactually read the emails part of
(17:36):
our intro.
Well, this this I'm thinkingthis whole episode is going to
be the views of these HR expertsis not the opinions of their
past, present or futureemployers.
Well, another person who's beenon the podcast, david Miklis.
He wrote on LinkedIn on January17th.
This was so funny.
Be careful when delisting topodcasts by hashtag HR
(17:59):
professionals.
I recently heard a podcast byan HR professional who stated
the consequences of filingviolating the FLSA were
basically only fines and fees.
This is incorrect.
In fact, most significantly,significant liability does not
come from civil monetarypenalties, but rather from
unpaid wages and liquidateddamages.
Both things get.
(18:20):
Both of these things go back tothe employee, not the
government.
I'm all for human resourcesunderstanding employment law,
but when it comes to educatingother HR professionals in HR
laws, it's a best practice tolead it to the employment
lawyers.
Don't get me wrong there's someamazing HR professionals out
there providing excellentcontent on a variety of topics,
and I encourage them to continueto do so.
(18:41):
And it's sort of funny as hegoes on in one of the commenters
with what HR podcasts youlisten to, and he mentioned
jaded HR.
So thank you, david, that'sawesome.
Yeah, I among others, butthat's the exact thing.
If you're taking anything thatI, cc or feathers say as the
(19:01):
word of the HR Lord, you've gotproblems.
Andrew Quilpa (19:04):
Good luck.
Warren (19:06):
You are probably going to end up fired and sued if you
do what we say.
This isn't that type of podcastand I hope that comes through
loud and clear.
But I was going to make somesort of snot comment.
It wasn't jaded HR.
Cee Cee (19:21):
Funny.
I was laughing like speaking ofHR experts and I don't think
this person.
I'm going to go out on a limband say this person was not
working in HR, but she kneweverything there was to know
about HR.
Yeah, and I don't know what itwas.
It was like a video orsomething on Instagram and
people were like commenting backand forth.
I had to do with maternityleave in the US.
And this woman was like, well,you know, that's against the law
(19:44):
.
The US is mandated to give paidmaternity leave.
And I was like like, stop backup, excuse me.
So then I questioned it andshe's like well, every job I did
.
And then I was like like I wentback and forth with her like
once or twice and I'm like, oh,I understand what's happening.
Now you don't know what you'retalking about.
(20:05):
But you think, you do, I'm goingto go do something else with my
life.
We're good.
But yeah, it was like thiswhole back and forth of like
it's a mandate, they have toprovide it and I'm like, no, no,
they don't, we don't have to doanything.
Warren (20:18):
See, I really have to hold myself back when I was on
social media.
But we're about engaging thosepeople Because I can.
I can be like a dog with a bone, you know I I am part of
baseball for 15 years and one ofthe sayings they say is arguing
with the umpires like mudwrestling with a pig.
It's cool and all, until yourealize pig likes it.
So I could get myself inserious trouble and damage by
(20:40):
arguing with people with thesestupid things and employees.
Well, my last company say toour department did this, I don't
care what they did, they did itwrong it was incorrect.
Yeah, and or my, my, my wife'scompany HR person says this well
, they said it wrong, yeah,anyways.
Well, while we're still kickingaround social media, you got
(21:03):
another tiki toki story.
Cee Cee (21:06):
So this girl her name's Brittany Peach and she was
getting terminated, like it waslike a mass layoff situation and
I guess she knew it was comingbecause it was one of those
situations where everyone wasgetting like these random 15
minute interviews like on theircalendar, meetings on their
calendar, and then she wouldhear from the grapevine of the
(21:29):
people before her that they weregetting termed, they're so this
, this woman came guns blazingand I do have to say this was a
masterclass on how not to firesomebody, because I mean, it was
every single thing.
Now, I've never had to fireanybody, luckily, like I've
never had to terminate, I'venever had to be part of one of
those conversations.
(21:50):
But as someone who's donelearning and development, this
goes against everything thatI've taught.
So, and I think the one thingwas, you know, it wasn't even
her manager on the call and itwasn't even her HRBP on the call
.
It was two people who she hadnever met before in the company
coming in to have thisconversation.
Like, hey, just to let you know, we were looking through the
(22:12):
calibrations.
We realized that you're kind ofthe bottom tier of performance
amongst, so we're just lettingall these people in this little
area go, because you know you'reall bottom performers.
And she kind of came withreceipts.
She was like who are you?
I never met you.
Where's my manager?
My manager has never given menegative feedback.
Again, number one rule is likethe performance should never be
(22:35):
a surprise.
And it was just like this wholething of like.
And finally she was like Canyou tell me why?
Me and this is why I rememberedher name, because she was like
Can you tell me why BrittanyPeach is getting fired?
And they're like oh, we can'tget into the like, we can't get
into the details.
And it was like what, what ishappening?
So the whole call deteriorated.
It was very cringey to watch,not because of her, more so
(22:56):
because of the two professionalsthat were on the other line.
Again, masterclass on what notto do when you're terminating
somebody.
Warren (23:05):
Yeah, I did not watch the video myself.
Once again, I have to rely onSusan Lucas to read her articles
every single day, but on hertake on it so, and they tried to
play it off as a layoff or aperformance.
And then they say it's a layoff.
And then they went online.
Sam Flare went online.
Oh, we're not doing any layoffs, and the whole thing just I
(23:27):
don't know got it's weird in somany different ways.
If you're doing a layoff, justdo a layoff.
And Suzanne Lucas said thisonly on FGO on the reasons why
Make it short and sweet.
Hey, the company is doing areduction for us.
You were selected for that, ortoday is your last day, or
whatever.
You want to say three lines orless and that's all you have to
(23:49):
do.
But if you're trying to tie itto performance a lot, okay, get
my soapbox lying and never getto anywhere.
It's your bottom performer.
Well, how?
Show me how I'm a bottomperformer?
What stats, what data?
And they don't.
They didn't do their homework.
If you're gonna lie, at leastcome up with something.
Cee Cee (24:10):
Yeah, I mean like if she called it, she kind of
called it out because I thinkshe could see right through it
and she said so I like notverbatim, but she basically said
, like I kind of see rightthrough this.
What you're saying is you'vehired too many people and now
you can't afford us.
Andrew Quilpa (24:26):
So now you're letting us go, and it was like
girl, like she.
Cee Cee (24:30):
Yeah, that's probably what was happening, because if
we're taking what she's sayingas truth and her manager has
given her nothing but positiveperformance and like she's never
had a write up, she's never hadlike a pip, she's never had any
kind of that constructionfeedback, constructive feedback,
then this is not.
This is not a termination ofperformance.
Warren (24:53):
Exactly, and I don't know what state this took place
in, but nowadays so many statesare I mean even making it for
performance.
Unless you do something ungodly, you're still going to get
unemployment.
So it's not even like it'sgonna.
It's gonna do anything, just so, just call it what it is to lay
off, sorry, you know.
Better luck next time, orwhatever you want to say, but
(25:17):
just, I don't know the lying andthe continual.
I'm assuming you saw the video.
Cee Cee (25:22):
Yes.
Warren (25:23):
How did she record this video of her getting terminated
Was like were she physicallylive in the office with them, or
is it done online or no, shewas online.
Cee Cee (25:34):
She looked like she was a remote worker and she had her
phone like propped up, so itwas like it was on her, but like
obviously you couldn't see whowas on the screen.
So, Okay, you just saw her.
Warren (25:45):
Interesting, interesting , and Suzanne Lucas did mention
always assume you're beingrecorded and, yep, you are.
In this case you were beingrecorded, it's just wow.
And Soundflare, I want to saywe've discussed some other HR
issues with them in the past.
One day, I'm gonna actuallyhave to create a little database
of you know our companiesbesides Chipotle we talk about
(26:06):
on regularly, so I can.
Oh yeah, we talked aboutSoundflare once upon a time, so
that's yeah, like I said,masterclass in class and what
not to do.
Real quick, I have two morethings I think we can cover
today, but I talked about goingback into the archives of JDDHR.
(26:28):
Well, going way back to seasonone, episode five, from 2020,
april of 2020.
The episode was infinitesimalPTO numbers for a scary HR
timeline.
So I talked about an employeewho was so concerned about the
difference in PTO between thetimekeeping system and the
(26:48):
payroll system, which were twodifferent systems.
The timekeeping system went tofour decimal places and, for
whatever stupid reason, in thepayroll system, only went to two
, and so over the course of hisentire tenure there, he'd been
shorted about 10 minutes of PTO,about 10 minutes.
(27:08):
And no, I talked to thepresident about that.
He said, well, he could justtake that 10 minutes anytime he
pleases.
Well, he's back and so, okay,there was a mistake made on HR's
part and I owned that, eventhough I didn't do it, but I
owned it and set up it was his401k for 2024.
(27:29):
He always contributes the maxand it went up a whopping $500
this year for the year that youcan contribute, or 401k.
So he comes in.
He's like he's, like you know,very upset.
So I had a time to calm himdown and anything.
And once I found out what theproblem was, I looked and I was
like, oh, wow, this didn't gothrough.
So I said we'll fix it.
How do you, would you like tofix it?
(27:49):
We can do one time checkout.
We can divvy up the nextdifference over the remaining
amount you contribute over tothe next 25 pay periods.
Now let me tell you $500 here,26 pay periods.
It's less than $20 a total andI understand it being
frustrating, but I think it's agood idea.
I understand it beingfrustrating, but it's not
anything to get upset about $20.
(28:10):
And he's not paid poorly by anystretch of the imagination, so
that $20 was not it, but justthe fact that you would get okay
.
Mistakes happen and I understandthat payroll is a super
sensitive.
The most personal thing HR evertouches on employees lives is
their payroll.
But I'm not going to build myhill on $20 of difference.
(28:36):
I mean, I was willing to justthrow $20 out of myself to get
them out of my office after 10minutes.
So this was not a shortconversation and I was like,
okay, we'll fix it, we can fixit, this is fixable, we can do
this, but anyways, that was partof my week last week, and so my
final story of the day comesfrom James Hudson on LinkedIn,
(29:02):
and he too is trashing some ofthese HR experts on LinkedIn.
So he writes look, I think it'swonderful you got hired into a
fang company, which I had to.
Google means Facebook, amazon,gosh, what's the other a?
I forget Netflix and Google oneof those high tech companies.
They was excited.
It's great you got hired to afang company despite having poor
(29:24):
grades, or that you're reallygood at video editing, social
media and you know how to rock ablazer and a corporate haircut,
and these are great stories andfun gimmicks.
It doesn't mean you're in aposition to speak from a place
of authority on how hiringactually works.
If you want to learn how tomake Hollandaise sauce properly,
would you rather learn from achef that makes it every day or
from someone who's been to arestaurant a couple of times and
(29:46):
just really enjoys talkingabout Hollandaise sauce on the
internet?
All these influencers and quotesare just looking to grow their
own brands by producing totallyerroneous clickbait.
At worst, they're hoping tosell to desperate people, often
at astronomical prices, forgenuine, helpful, accurate
advice, follow any of theseaccounts, and Dan from HR was
(30:07):
that's how I found it.
He was linked to that article.
It's I think 2024 is shaping upto be the year of the expert in
quotes who doesn't know whatthe hell they're doing.
So I can't say enough if you'regoing to get some HR advice
online, do your homework.
(30:28):
Know somebody, ask somebody whoknows what they're talking
about.
Don't just say, oh, thisperson's got a million followers
on LinkedIn or Facebook,instagram, whatever it is.
They have to know.
And no, it's quite often theexact opposite.
Cee Cee (30:44):
They just they don't know.
Warren (30:46):
They don't know and for the most part.
So I'm going to dub 2024 theyear of the fake expert.
Let's see if they can prove mewrong.
And that's my expert analysisfor this.
Anyways, that is all, I'll goahead.
Cee Cee (31:01):
I was going to say I think you're right, but I also
hope you're wrong.
Warren (31:04):
It'll be fun if I'm right.
Cee Cee (31:06):
It would be.
It would be.
There's so many out there.
Warren (31:10):
Plenty of fodder.
Cee Cee (31:12):
Like yeah, net, net.
Linkedin has become such acesspool of it is just self self
loving experts.
Warren (31:21):
And oh, I one of these comments to.
I think I replied to JamesHudson's comments and, hey, I
would love to.
He was going to talk aboutmaking a list of people you
should be following for realcareer advice and I said why
don't we make a list of theseshysters and put them out there?
And he says, oh, you know he'sbetter than that.
And of course he is.
I'm not.
I would call these peopleothers.
(31:45):
One person I don't know how.
You know, I spend my free timeat work on LinkedIn.
I don't know how she peopleshare her stuff and it's not
that she's a phony HR person,it's just all of her advice is
sunshine and roses and littlekitten posters and things like
that.
Okay, that's great, but there'sno content there.
There's no, you know, and sheposts like ridiculous.
(32:07):
And so many people share herstuff but like I don't want to
see this anymore.
It's like it's everywhere.
But yeah, it's, it's, it's alittle crazy online.
Cee Cee (32:18):
Yeah, I will say it's not just online.
There's in, like my, my localmarket, where I am, there is a.
There's an individual who Iused to work with in a corporate
setting who went off and theykind of did their own thing to
become a consultant.
Warren (32:34):
Okay.
Cee Cee (32:34):
Which I have mixed feelings about.
I have mixed opinions about,very strong mixed opinions about
, but it was like eight yearssince we've worked together I'm
more than that.
It was like eight, nine yearsand I saw him do his spiel at a
big conference locally and hewas doing the same stuff he was
doing eight years ago.
Andrew Quilpa (32:54):
Like he and.
Cee Cee (32:54):
I worked together and like people were like doting him
, as this you know reallytalented expert guru, yada, yada
, yada, and I was just like, andI was sitting in the front row,
but at that point I was just, Iwas being an ass, just kind of
leaned back.
I leaned back in my chair,across my arms, and just stared
at him and just started like Ihad this grin on my face cause I
(33:16):
knew exactly what he was doing.
I think I shook him a littlebit cause he like did screw up
the activity and I was likethere you go.
But I mean like, come on, it'slike you're selling the same
stuff you've sold for nine yearsor whatever.
I'm like this is, this isinsane.
Warren (33:33):
Well, that's part of the HR speaker circuit.
It's just so bad with peoplethat are repeating the same
thing and once you've seen JohnDoe once, at the whatever
seminar you go to, you know twoyears later you see him at
another seminar, different brand, everything same story and it's
like okay, I'm over thisalready.
And the speaker circuit for HRoverall is pure awful and that's
(33:58):
why I don't go to conferences.
My boss even asked me last yeardo you want to go to any
national conference?
I'm like no, I don't.
You can save your money, I canspend your money elsewhere, and
things like that.
That's not, I'm not going toget anything out of it.
Cee Cee (34:13):
So I will say I did like I did go to SHRM.
I know there's like a love haterelationship with SHRM.
I did go to the SHRM conferencea few years ago in Vegas and
that was that was a good time.
I mean I just I went alonecause no one else at work was
available and I ended up likemeeting other people and it was
a party Like I could.
(34:34):
I mean, let me just tell forthose who don't know HR, people
are unhinged when there's like abunch of them and alcohol, it's
just like they are the.
They are the biggest partiersthat you will ever find and I
had a blast.
I will go again.
Let's go.
Warren (34:55):
You're going to Chicago this year now.
Cee Cee (35:00):
Unfortunately, I think I'm gonna have a newborn at some
point, so I can't.
Warren (35:04):
Yeah, I, if there was one that was convenient.
I know they only hold it inthese mega cities and none of
them are.
I think one year is in DC, butthat that's like five hours away
from me.
But I'm not gonna go to.
If it's not convenient, I'm notgonna.
I'm not gonna waste my time,but just to go to shirm the
national conference.
(35:24):
I know we're over time andwhatever, but who cares the go
to the national conference it'slike five thousand dollars for a
person between the admission,the airfare hotels, the hotels
jack up their prices and thingslike that or whatever they're,
and it's just like I have a lotof other things I can do with
five thousand dollars, yeah, andbe missing out on work.
(35:47):
So I get home back from work, Ihave to do two weeks of work in
one week, so now, no, thank youon that.
Cee Cee (35:55):
Yeah maybe Maybe on another, maybe on another
episode.
I will go into my my shirm.
Was it my shirm wildings?
Warren (36:04):
that happened back a few years ago, because but what
happened to biggest does notstay in Vegas no, it does not.
Cee Cee (36:11):
And it was fantastic.
I felt like I was living somelike crazy movie.
I'm like this is a shirmconference.
I'm in like let's just do it.
Warren (36:19):
It was at the biggest one I've read.
Oh gosh, there was some podcastHR podcaster.
The company was promoting CBDproducts and they had Samplings
on the rooftop of some hotel andwas like all these HR people
just stoned out of their minds.
I forget.
I heard about it on somepodcast once upon a time, I
don't remember which one.
(36:40):
I'd love to give credit to thepeople but are like yeah, that's
a great thing to do you want toknow.
Yeah, alrighty.
Well, that's gonna wrap us upfor today.
We come back in two weeks andhopefully there'll be the three
amigos again and see what we canmake happen then.
In the meantime, our bestpractice will be You're not an
(37:01):
expert, even if you think youare.
Give it up, try something else.
But as always, I'm Warren.
I'm CC and we're here helpingyou survive HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
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