June 26, 2025 • 51 mins
Is eliminating HR departments the bold new frontier in business leadership, or a recipe for legal disasters? We dive into a provocative New York Post op-ed that's generating tons of views by claiming HR has evolved from protecting companies to enforcing "woke ideology."
The rage-bait article from a former Levi's executive proudly announces her intention to run a company without HR, complete with intentional misgendering and rejection of workplace respect policies. We break down why this approach isn't just misguided—it's potentially catastrophic from both business and legal perspectives.
Between fits of justified outrage, we explore the real-world situations HR professionals navigate daily, including new hire orientation snafus, handbook questions that could be self-solved, and the delicate balance of workplace dress code enforcement. Our discussion reveals how quality HR actually protects businesses while supporting employees, contrary to the mischaracterization of HR as "head girls" and "hall monitors."
The conversation takes fascinating detours into international workplace language differences, the evolution of HR as a strategic function, and why so many managers blame HR for decisions they themselves make. We also touch on SHRM's announcement of Joe Biden as a 2025 keynote speaker and what this signals about the organization's positioning.
Whether you're an HR professional tired of your profession being maligned or a business leader wondering about HR's true value, this episode offers critical insights into what happens when companies mistake HR for the enemy rather than a strategic partner in business success. Join us as we separate clickbait from reality in the world of workplace management.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Had you actually read the email, you would know that
the podcast you are about tolisten to could contain explicit
language and offensive content.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Welcome to JDHR, the podcast by two HR professionals
who want to help you get throughthe workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren, I'm Cece.
We are back on a normalschedule, as we're saying.
This week we have this one.
Next week we have OfficeRewatch.
The week after that, july 10th,we'll be dropping another new
episode, but July 24th I'm goingto be out of town and unless we
(01:15):
record two, maybe we'll do it.
Maybe we'll record two and do asecond Office one and then drop
that.
That's require a little bitless work on my end.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
That'd be awesome.
Give the people what they want.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, and y'all seem to be enjoying the office
episode, so next week we'll haveone of those as well.
So, ah, wow, well, we weretalking off air about and we've
we've mentioned on there beforeas well you as a listener,
really really like when we shiton SHRM.
Our last episode yet againwhile we're talking about SHRM
(01:50):
had well above average downloadnumbers, in the first two weeks
at least.
And, yeah, you all, really,everything that we start talking
about SHRM has higher downloads.
So I'm going to start off bytalking about SHRM.
Give the people what they want.
The algorithm we're doing itfor the algo.
So anyways and I got this, Iwill say, from Jamie Jackson on
(02:13):
one of her Instagram accountsSHRM has added yet another
keynote speaker to the SHRM 2025.
And that is Joe Biden.
And you know this is going tobe a hard episode not to go
political in.
I've mentioned it any number oftimes.
(02:34):
I consider myself fiercelyindependent and nobody on the
right likes my opinions.
Nobody on the left likes myopinions.
I usually keep them to myself.
But Jamie and a few otherpeople since I saw Jamie's first
with it have come up with thetheory that this is a F you sort
of to Donald Trump in terms ofJCT not getting the Secretary of
(02:55):
Labor position that it looked.
Everybody was saying it was his.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Look at that headcanon.
Let's keep that story.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Let's keep that story going, okay.
So yeah, I don't know ifthere's any truth to it.
I did, I think, online.
I watched George W Bush, hisinterview with Johnny C Taylor
and, honestly, the politics side, it was a good interview.
It was good, it was funny, itwas basically what you want.
Was that two or three years ago?
(03:24):
I don't remember, I forget.
It was good.
I think Joe Biden, because hefrom day one has been such a
staunch pro-labor, is going tobe very interesting.
And I've said before I thinkSherm has really gone pro-labor
over the past five, 10 years ormore.
So I think that's going to bean interesting conversation.
(03:47):
So yeah, I can see Joe Bidenbeing a little bit more than
just a political hack.
The speaker, you know a giant,not just big name, giant name,
but I'm just wondering how muchof my dues are paying for this.
And honestly, because of hispro-labor background, it might
(04:08):
have a little more substancethan maybe, say, and I just
remember thinking that the Bushtalk with JCT wasn't bad and it
was pretty good, but I can'tremember the first thing they
discussed at all.
So I don't know what is goingto be said or how it would
compare, but he does have alittle bit of chops to talk
(04:32):
about labor and HR issues.
To that extent I would say soyeah, well, we will see where
that one goes.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I'd be down.
I'd be down to see him talk.
I mean, I saw Martha Stewarttalk, so I think Joe Biden's
better than Martha Stewart, inmy opinion, in my taste, I would
say, but I don't know.
That would be interesting.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
It's just always so weird.
I always wonder what thethought process is for selecting
these speakers.
So who's available.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Who can we afford Exactly?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
However, I am going to say I like the theory that
this was an SEO, because youknow like I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
You want it to be true.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
And I think I sometimes think Trump would be
butthurt over that.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Oh yeah, he'll be butthurt over anything, anything
Of all weeks, you know, of allweeks us to meander into
political realms like we'regoing through today, the week
we're having.
If you haven't been anywhere inthe world for the past, I don't
know since Saturday.
(05:40):
It's been a pretty interestingcouple of days here, but keep
out of that as well.
I need a nap, I need a nap, Ineed a nap, yeah, so let's
switch gears.
I'm going to tell I've got acouple of stories that have
happened to me the past few daysand I just wanted to share
nothing.
I don't know we're.
(06:00):
If we discuss, we discuss.
If not, we'll just move on tothe next.
So one of my things thepresident of my company is
pretty strong about me actuallyrunning the new hire
orientations, and then not onlyme running it, but each of the
directors.
If you're talking about projectcontrols, the director of
(06:20):
project controls is coming thehigh level for the new hires to
get to know everybody.
But I'm sort of in there allday coordinating and I'm
g-chatting the next personsaying, okay, you're up in five
minutes, if I remember I'm verybad about uh, I'm very bad about
remembering the oh, yeah, yeah,ping the next person and and
things like that.
So we, that's what we do.
Well, one of the the speakersI'm going to let this person
(06:43):
rename, nameless or by title orname or anything like that.
Like I said, a couple of peoplefrom the work listen and they
will know, but one person.
They start off the very firstthing they say after the intros
and all that and who they areand what they do.
They say I can't stand readingverbatim from PowerPoint slides.
Yet for the next half hour weget letter for letter.
(07:05):
And not only are they readingletter for letter off the
PowerPoint slides, they arebutchering it the same thing
they've been saying for yearsand they are talking very
robotic, like they are actuallyreading this.
And it's so painful for me.
I'm just sitting there at thispoint.
(07:26):
A lot of times I'm checking myemail and trying to, because
orientation lasts half a day.
I'm trying not to fall behindon the rest of my duties while
other people are speaking.
But it's just like and I'm sotempted to pull like Christine
Applegate did to Ron Burgundy inAnchorman just change the
(07:48):
teleprompter and make it saysomething completely ridiculous
and she would read that shitstraight on through without even
realizing what she's saying.
Part of me just wants to dothat.
So bad, just because I'm anasshole sometimes.
That's the worst.
It would make it fun for me atleast.
But anyways, part of me justwants to do that so bad just
because I'm an asshole.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
sometimes that's the worst, it would make it fun for
me at least.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But anyways, let's see here and the second thing I
put, it's just a one-liner hereExample of no good deed goes
unpunished A situation wheresomeone on my team went the
extra mile for one employee andsomebody else got jealous and
got butt hurt that nobody's gonethe extra mile for them and I'm
(08:30):
like I've never known you needany assistance.
But anyways, I'm just like thatsucks yeah.
And I don't want my person tothink they should not do that.
I'm very proud of what they did, right.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
No good deed goes unpunished.
Yeah, so one of my securityblanket or comfort blanket shows
is the show Superstore.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yes, you've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I love that show but if you've never heard of it,
it's very much like the Officeand it's very much like Parks
and Recreation Of that nature.
But it's a show that happens in, like this fictional version of
Walmart, and it's everyone whoworks there and they're mostly
all like floor workers andthere's like one episode episode
(09:25):
it was like one of the firstepisodes and one of the main
characters tells another maincharacter you don't help people
here.
Helping people is likequicksand, it'll suck you down
and the whole episode is likejust people, like no good deed
goes unpunished and at the endthey all have to take a sexual
harassment course so it's agreat show, again if you've
(09:48):
never watched it give it a watch.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I keep meaning to watch that.
As you've spoken about it acouple times, I've heard other
people speak about it, I keepmeaning to.
I'm I'm back on my food networkaddiction, watching old shows
and crap like that.
And then, of course, we lostann burrell.
We lost ann Burrell.
We lost Anne Burrell last week,I heard.
I've been you know she was onIron Chef like 25 plus years ago
(10:10):
and I've just seen her on FoodNetwork and those shows forever.
I've been a Food Network junkiefor that long and if, like my
wife, her TV noise, if you will,is investigation, discovery and
all that true crime stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
My TV noise is Food Network and so if I'm just
sitting there scrolling throughFacebook or doing something else
completely mindless, you canpretty much guarantee Food
Network is on in the backgroundand I just love it.
But anyways, yeah.
So here is a question I wasasked just earlier this week and
(10:50):
it's just too perfect of aquestion to not talk about.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I'm here for it and I wrote it down word for word.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
They caught me in the hallway.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I have a question about the handbook, so I'm going
to stop there.
I hear that and I'm going tostop there.
I hear that and I'm thinking,yes, somebody's read it and
wants to know.
Actually, I'm currently workingon handbook updates and things
and I was like, oh, maybe thisis something I can add to
clarify if they have a question,maybe something wasn't crystal
clear.
But they go on and then it goesfrom here how many days
(11:29):
bereavement do I get for mysister-in-law passing away?
So in their question theyacknowledge they know the answer
is going to be in the handbook,correct.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
But they don't go to the freaking handbook to get
that answer.
We just used you like apersonification of Ask Jeeves.
Yes, we just used you like apersonification of Ask Jeeves
yes, Ask Jeeves Can you pleaseregurgitate something from the
handbook, because I am too lazyto look it up.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Exactly.
But I honestly had my littleToby moment I got excited about.
You know, toby gets to breakout his book and he gets to do
some real HR work, like laterway down the road, and he's all
excited and into it.
And I'm like, oh, somebody readthe handbook and I'm thinking,
like I said, I'm doing handbookupdates and there's a couple of
(12:11):
things I think could beclarified.
I'm like, ooh, like this willbe opportunity for me to find
out.
Maybe something else isn'tcleared I can update.
But no, you asked me a questionacknowledging that the answer
is in the handbook and I stillanswered acknowledging that the
answer is in the handbook and Istill answered I'm a.
I'm a.
You know, I'm jaded on thepodcast.
I'm jaded at home.
I'm not.
I I shouldn't say I'm not.
I try my hardest not to bejaded at work, but yeah, I'm
(12:35):
really not jaded this podcast.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
It really just it's not jaded.
Okay, I'm gonna really I'mgonna try to look this up really
quick.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Because you said something about the handbook and
that reminded me of a post Isaw last night on Human
Resources Reddit that made mecrack up.
Let's see, okay, here we go.
We're going off script today.
Okay, so this was on the humanresources subreddit and it says
(13:12):
we have an employee that isoftentimes not wearing a bra to
work.
Some days it is not extremelynoticeable because she wears
blazers and sweaters, but otherdays and this is the quote from
the reddit post from the managerthey are just out there okay so
(13:33):
we are a government entity andoften deal with members of the
public.
Any advice on approaching this?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
we require business dress and would like her to wear
a bra oh gosh, I don't want totouch this one with a 10-foot I
don't want to so I think there'sactually been case law, and
it's in the back of my mind thatthat can be discriminatory,
requiring certain undergarmentsfor women that aren't required
(14:01):
for men, and and things likethat so, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
So anyway, someone did say like I don't see this
going well for you.
You can have that conversation,but then go right to your legal
department because you're goingto need them yes go to your
legal department first, thenhave a conversation and then
there are some people who arelike you.
(14:28):
You might have to talk to herabout what professional conduct
means in the handbook andeveryone's like I don't want to
touch this, like nobody.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
No one wanted this, so anyway nobody wants to touch
it, but, as hr, it's one ofthose things you're going to get
reeled into and it depends onhow visible everything is and
things like that.
Are they hanging low?
Are they hanging out?
Is it very cold in there?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I think the issue is that it's very cold.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
So I think everyone's just like.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Everybody knows.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
The other piece of it is like really man, like.
Why is the man really Like?
I don't know, it's just, it's adumb conversation to have.
But something came up in thehandbook about it being like,
like how you put dress code inthe handbook.
I thought it was an interestingrabbit hole to go down.
The consensus in that group wasdon't even fucking think about
(15:28):
it.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Unless you're going to, unless you're going to,
mandate all the men to likecover their nipples then, you.
You have no nothing to stand on.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Exactly, and and then being a man, hr, which we're
going to discuss a little bitlater, there's like so I'm
coming out of that conversationas a creep, no matter how much
time I spend wordsmithing it andtrying to be politically
correct, I'm going to be thecreepster, I'm going to be the I
(15:59):
don't know what the word is,but I'm going to be the shunned
person for that, yeah, and let'ssee here.
So, okay, this is today.
Just this morning this occurred, and so this is the.
Am I the asshole, is Warren theasshole?
(16:20):
And generally, speaking theanswer is yes.
But where I work, new employeeshave to do eight hours of DOD
training.
It's done on external websitesthrough the DCSA or what I don't
even know the acronyms oranything like that, but it's
done externally.
And then, as you're doing thetraining, the first page of this
(16:43):
, when you get to the externaltrainings, you do your internal
training too on this.
But in the RLMS, the first pageit goes to, it says you must
download the course completioncertificate and turn it into
receive credit.
That's on the overview page.
Then you get to the individualmodule and it says the exact
same thing you must download thecourse completion certificate
(17:05):
and turn it into HR to receivecredit.
Then you go to the externalsite and in bold letters now
there's a lot of verbiage hereso this one can be lost but the
external site at the DCSA saysyou must print or save a local
copy of the certificate as proofof course completion.
Cdse does not maintain courserecords of completion and so
(17:26):
anyways.
So, and then the website, theexternal website right before,
shows you your certificate.
It tells you again so that'sfour times.
You're being told download thecertificate, download the
certificate.
New employee not very technical, friendly person goes through,
does all his training and didonly well.
(17:47):
He downloaded two of thecertificates.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Two of four Halfway there.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Well, there's like six of them, so he downloaded
two of the certificates, two offour Halfway there.
Well, there's like six of them,so he did two of six that he had
to do, but it tells you fourtimes that it's in there,
anyways.
So I'm telling him well,unfortunately, you're going to
have to go back and redo these,and these are not trainings that
you can just click next, next,next, next and get through one,
like a lot of training you can.
You know, you have to wait forthe play bar to get all the way
(18:13):
to the other end of the screenbefore you can hit next, or the
next screen doesn't even applyup here until you get to that
point.
So I tell him well,unfortunately, you're going to
have to do this all again.
So the employee is upset withme.
So the manager comes to me andthe manager says well, you only
allow eight hours for training,how are we supposed to pay him
(18:35):
for this?
And I this is why I said thisis a quote, not my problem I
said we've already paid him formy training budget to do this,
this training, so it's notcoming from the training budget.
You can talk to your VP aboutusing overhead, using something
else, but it's not coming fromthe training budget.
And he did not like that.
(18:58):
So what say ye in the L&D worldof where we have to bill for
training, allocate our hours andthings like that.
It's not coming out of mybudget like that.
Where I'm not, it's not comingout of my budget.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I would say that this person has failed on their
first day and they are toimmediately be sent home.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
No.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
And the thing is they are a.
They're not going to work withcomputers.
They're not going to.
They're going to work withcomputers once a year.
They're annual training, whichis good Looks like next year is
going to be really fun for us.
And then open enrollment.
They'll have to do annualtraining, but, yeah, they're not
going to be.
Well, they have to do theirtime cards online, but I think
(19:42):
we've got that covered prettywell.
But, yeah, you've got two ofthem done.
I don't know, it's just you haveto do it now, like I said, the
one page where it says on thefront page of the external page,
where it says that the, whereit says you must download and
they don't record taking it, orwhatever it says it does not
(20:03):
maintain records of course,completions.
That's buried in just a ton ofverbiage.
So you know, you know, unlessyou know, it's there Anyways.
So that was my this morningtype thing.
So let's get to the meat andpotatoes.
You found this great article,just like we start recording at
(20:25):
830.
I think you sent it to me after8 pm, yeah, to look at and I
was like you know, I've got awhole page of stuff to cover.
I'm like Nope, this, this is it.
This is going to be the theshow today.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
I just want to say that this is, this is real time
power of HR.
This is I'm gonna let my secretgo my weekly prompt, or my pre
podcast prompt of give me arundown of things that are
relevant in HR in the news thisweek, and then it just tells me
Okay, using AI, exactly.
(21:00):
Oh, my gosh.
Oh, by the way, my AI.
I have personified it.
It is my assistant.
His name is so pierre did.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Helps me with my research now, okay, I, I use I
have gemini, which is all goingto be replaced by I can't say it
because the google assistantI'm looking to watch my monitor
here behind me to save itlistens in.
But I made it a british femalevoice and my wife hates that.
I was like it's.
I've made it a British femalevoice and my wife hates that.
I was like I made it personaland things like that.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
But with that, Kevin does the same thing.
It's a British woman.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I don't know.
I think it's the best soundingvoice overall Anglophile, I
guess, but anyways.
Yeah, but right now Jim and Istill have the same voice.
But I have gotten Jim and I toremember certain things, to say,
okay, I'm getting ready to goto Costa Rica.
I've programmed it to say teachme 10 phrases in Spanish a day,
(22:04):
but when I ask you to do that,make sure it is pertinent to
Costa Rica, because they give meBarcelona, or you would say
Barthelona, as they would say.
Different things mean you knowdifferent contexts of Spanish
all over the world and anyways.
So I've been trying to do that,as I've embarrassed myself too
(22:26):
many times trying to remember myjunior high Spanish and failing
I've probably told the story onthe podcast before.
We were in Puerto Rico visitingmy sister as a house there and
we were in a parking garagetrying to get out.
I'm actually doing really wellspeaking Spanish.
Mid-sentence I switchedstraight over to German and my
(22:47):
kids are in the backseatlaughing.
I used to speak German veryfluently, got a German
scholarship and things like that.
And I didn't realize it until weleft and my daughter and son
were just like in tears.
My wife doesn't have a cluewhat I'm saying in any language,
even English, but they said youweren't speaking Spanish, dad'm
(23:08):
like what?
And?
And I was like what I didn'tsay anyway.
So yeah, but I love the way youcan personalize it and give it
commands and give it like I askit for things about podcasts and
I I've set it up to findinformation for about jaded hr,
if it's ever mentioned.
It hasn't been mentioned, butonce yet.
But but see if we get anymentions and things like that.
(23:31):
So anyhow, back to the story.
This stupid story, All rightWell okay, it's both got me
thinking get me fired up.
As I said, it did get me firedup when you sent it to me, but
there's some points to it.
In HR, when you give a review,some managers like to give you
(23:52):
some good news, then the badnews and then the good news
again, and I call it the shitsandwich, because nobody hears.
The employee only hears thegood stuff at the ends and
doesn't hear what they need tohear in the middle.
Well, this will be an open faceshit sandwich.
I'm going to start by sayingsome good things about this
article, but then the rest of itshit.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
I am Well as we talk about this.
I was very heated about this atfirst.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And then, as I was like piecing things together, I
was like that meme with thewoman in the math.
I was like, oh, I see what thisis, so we'll get to that in a
second.
Okay, oh, okay I'll let you.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I was gonna say, give us your theory.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
What you're thinking is, I had a theory, a similar
theory no, because I feel likeonce we go through this, I feel
like our audience will becatching on pretty soon too.
So yeah, so there's an articlein the the New York Post and it
was by a woman named JenniferSay S-E-Y.
So she's a former Levi's brandmanager or brand president, and
(25:00):
she started a startup companyand she decided to write this
like op-ed.
So the company is called XX x xy athletics and it is the
company is to protect women'ssports, so you know I'm gonna
stop you there's.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
That's where I was going to give it two giant
thumbs up.
Okay, because you know I'm notgoing to try.
I'm going to try my hardest andI get a bit political.
But where I really feelstrongly about is men competing
as women in women's sports.
(25:40):
We saw in the Olympics theboxing debacle, the Canadian
lady who would not box, theRussian man, and things like
that.
I, you know if someone wants tobe trans or it doesn't affect
me in any way, shape or form.
But when I see, especially in asport like boxing or some of
these other sports, where thesemen are, it's just abuse of of
(26:07):
women at that point so I'magainst.
You can be trans, you can be.
If you're going to compete, youhave to compete at the right
level.
I mean, go, I'll try and go.
Go back to the seventies whenBillie Jean King used to play
Arthur Ashe, the two best tennisplayers at the time in the
world.
Billie Jean King couldn't keepup with Arthur Ashe.
(26:31):
In golf there's been the bestfemale golfers playing some of
the best men and it doesn't endup well In sports.
You see what's made all theheadlines a couple of years ago
and I can't remember the girl'sname or the man's name, the
female swimmer I think she'sfrom Georgia and the man swimmer
(26:52):
who competed for multiple yearsas a man I can't remember
either names, but he was likeranked like 200 in men as a man.
Then he became a woman and wasthe top ranked woman, etc.
So it's yeah, I don't believe.
Even if it's not physicalcompetition like contact
competition, I don't believethat.
(27:14):
That's my own opinion.
I'll just sort of live and dieon that.
But I do applaud that.
That's what her company basisis for, because I would not want
my daughter I don't knowplaying racquetball.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
The cards are stacked against you physiologically,
and yeah, I wasn't even goinglike whoa, no, no, like I was
just saying that this, so, aswe're going to dig into this,
it's not even whether or notyou're totally you know, we are
not a political podcast, I'mjust like you're totally
entitled to your opinion.
But I'm saying I think what Iwas going to say was I think
(27:52):
this is a strategic move andthis is nothing but rage bait to
promote her company, which,bing, bing, bing, bing or not,
yes, and that's what I was goingto say.
I don't think this has anythingto do with.
Like her, she just wants to saysomething provocative so that
we all kind of and she knows, Imean honestly like I think
(28:16):
there's, she's clearly very aswe go through it, she clearly
has political beliefs and she isusing those political beliefs
as we go through her thoughts onhr and dei, and I think that's
what this is.
This is just a rage-baityarticle that is going to be like
I'm the next company that'sgoing to eliminate HR and it's
(28:39):
like no, you're not, you'regoing to have fucking problems
is what you're going to fuckinghave because you don't have HR.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
You've said absolutely everything.
I've seen as I read the article.
That was the good piece of theshit.
You've said absolutelyeverything.
I've seen as I read the article.
That was the good piece of theshit sandwich.
The rest of it is not going.
I'm not going to agree withthis person on a lot, but I do
think it is an op-ed.
Anybody can write an op-ed.
It's well-written.
(29:09):
I can't say anything bad aboutthat.
But I, so bad, just want to goline by line reading this
article and stating what it is,because, honestly, I don't know
any other way to do it, becauseI can't just pick a line here
and a line there.
It's like 80% of this articleis provocative to the point that
(29:36):
we've got to say somethingabout it.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
She argues that HR today is more about ideological
policing than supporting peopleor profits, and this is a quote
from her.
So HR once protected companiesfrom lawsuits.
Now it's a woke mob enforcingDEI ideology and yeah, which I
love that garbage.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
So, yeah, I'm like just lockstep with everything
you've said on this, but onething that stood out in terms of
making this be a self-promotionarticle versus a true op-ed
article let's say somethinginflammatory.
They'll get picked up a lot ofplaces and if you're going to
(30:23):
get picked up somewhere, the NewYork Post is not a bad place to
do it.
But she talks about herInstagram post that said the
exact same thing when sheannounced I want to be the first
company without HR, and theaudience went wild and the line
(30:43):
went viral in an Instagram postwith over 5 million views.
That tells me everything.
That paragraph tells me.
Yeah, this is self-promotionwith some clickbait in it to get
the HR people reading it, andthings like that.
So, yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I think my favorite quote is when she said I'm gonna
misquote it but she basicallysaid I'm running a business and
I don't need the women of theview walking around the office
policing what people can andcannot say.
And I was like, well, that'sjust fucking misogynistic, first
(31:21):
of all.
Second of all, okay, so we gota glimpse of Warren's point of
view.
Now we're getting a glimpse ofChristina's point of view,
Because I'm like, honestly, I'ma little bit of like a staunch
feminist.
So when I hear people turningHR into like it's like the
women's club and it's thewomen's like and it's the mean
girls of corporate and I thinkshe actually said like the mean
(31:45):
girls or the whatever sendingout their corporate memos, I'm
like fuck you.
I'm so sorry, Like get, Ididn't pray, you just me Coming
from a feminist point of view.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Think of it from a dude point of view.
I don't know what it is,because she does harp on women.
She does, and I know when II've said it on the podcast
probably before.
You know all the HR, you knowkindergarten teachers wearing
their fuzzy sweaters and youknow singing kumbaya and holding
hands and things like that.
I don't think that getsterribly misogynistic.
(32:17):
It probably is, but not as badas this lady gets.
Because here we go, hrdepartments today are packed
with Tracy Flicks.
The way-too-eager high schoolerplayed by Reese Witherspoon in
the movie Election Flick is thearchetypal head girl, a term
derived from the British schoolsystem that is tight hierarchy
(32:37):
of internal discipline andambitious and officious with
little actual skill or intellect.
Hand razors like these are notselected to lead for their
intelligence or ability, butconscientious and willingness to
follow and uphold the rules.
That's fine when HR had nopower, and okay, that's fine
when HR had no power, and okaythis whole thing.
(32:59):
And she was with Levi's and shewas with these other companies
you mentioned.
It sounds like she's never beeninvolved with a real
professional HR team or real HRprofessionals.
I'll say it any number of timesHR.
The reason we are thelaughingstock of professions is
(33:20):
oh, you were a good fill in theblank, you'll be great in HR.
And we get the wrong people whowant to have a pizza party, who
want to put up a really prettybulletin board and have an
employee of the month type thingall the fun, cool kumbaya type
stuff, but it doesn't cut itwhen the shit hits the fan, it
(33:45):
really doesn't.
So, yeah, I think she's beenexposed to the wrong HR.
Let's see here what I had andyou mentioned about the wanting
to police the words you say In30, almost 30 years of working
in HR, yes, I have told peoplethey can't say words, but
(34:06):
they're usually some really big,important words that we're not
going to be.
I'm not going to say on thepodcast, say on the podcast, and
those are the type of wordsI've had to have the wonderful
conversations.
We don't say these at work orthis is why you're being fired
because you have said these atwork, type things.
I've never told somebody theycan't say a certain word now,
(34:28):
but she goes on.
I want to scroll down to the ohanyways.
And now in the 2020s, hr assertsits newly found clout with
tyrannical zeal Tyrannical zeal,Tyrannical zeal yeah but let me
scroll to the end here, whereshe said something oh okay, my
(34:49):
company is a walking talking HRviolation.
She says we misgender all daylong.
In fact, speaking the truth, asI call it, is required to work
here.
We're not in school anymore.
We don't need a persnicketymismanners adequate enforcer
telling us to be nice.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
How dare we treat someone the way they want to be
treated?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
So, yeah, by saying and promoting that what're doing
, what she's doing, she's goingto find and knock on wood, I
have not found this employee yet.
But there are those employeesout there.
They're just looking to gethired so they can sue your ass.
And so they're going to hiresomeone that they don't know is
(35:36):
trans or I don't even know allthe correct terminology not cis,
male or whatever the rightthing is to say.
I'm too old to follow all thatstuff.
But anyways, and that person isgoing to sue them and they're
going to refer to this articlewhere she says oh yeah, in June
(35:58):
of 2025, she says weintentionally do it and it is
required at our job.
And this is why you need an HRperson, asshole, I tell you,
because you are going to getyourself sued.
And, yes, that's part of whatHR does is we do help enforce,
trying to keep your ass out of asling as much as we can.
But anyways, I'll continue togo on, go it alone without HR.
(36:22):
So I'll assume the so-calledrisk so I can lead in my own
voice and all the things shesays throughout here that HR
does.
Hr is not the one making thosedecisions.
It's either A, a law, b comingfrom the C-level suite, that
this is what we're going to dohere.
And even if HR said, hey, demi,that's not the best idea, nope,
ceo says it's doing that, okay,we're doing that type of thing.
(36:46):
She's never had good HR.
Oh, there were some other goodthings, oh.
So she interviewed in 2023 forCEO at an $8 billion retailer
and she went through all thisinterview things and then her
interview.
My last interview was with theHR representative on the board.
Her first question was will youapologize for what you've done
(37:10):
and what I've done?
I was an advocate for openingschools during COVID.
Blah, blah, blah.
That didn't matter to the HRlady.
I violated her tightly enforcedscript.
I didn't apologize and I didn'tget the job.
And then, over the last twodecades this is great HR has
gone from operational support tooperation head.
(37:30):
Girl hall monitor.
Oh oh my gosh, they force feedtrainings about acceptable
language Once again.
Never in my career have I doneanything, done a training on an
enforceable language.
We're not going to have atraining that says, okay, these
are the words you don't use.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
George Carlton's skit .
You have to say the same thing.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
These are the seven magic words.
Well, there's more than sevennowadays words.
Well, there's more than sevennowadays.
But anyways, you don't saythese things.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
They make merit out to be racist.
That's just common sense insociety.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
They make merit out to be racist.
I mean, they set out a criteriabased on risk avoidance rather
than excellence.
Now, risk avoidance can go handin hand with excellence If you
have a well-treated,well-maintained workforce.
That doesn't.
She is going to be on like JohnHyman's worst list of employers
(38:24):
at some point.
She's going to do something soridiculously stupid that she's
going to get the award for this,but anyways, yeah, oh, and she
addresses us, calling hermisogynistic.
Am I being sexist and callingthem head girls?
In 2023, 76% of all HR managersin the US were female.
(38:45):
The shoe fits and, yes, men canbe head girl type too.
These head girls make everyoneadd pronouns that are email
signatures.
It's just these time suckersshould focus away from the
business.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
You know what she is.
She's a corporate pick me.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Like she's literally just like the executive version
of a pick me.
She just she's not like theother girls, she's a she's.
She runs her business like abig woman.
Like OK, I get it.
Like she's not like us, she'slike the man Get out of here, go
away.
I'm tired of you.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, exactly my critics of my viral comment push
back me.
You need HR to avoidunnecessary risk.
That's the fear HR leverages tomaintain its unearned influence
.
It just everything she says anddoes is just really
stomach-churning in this.
(39:41):
Karma's going to come backaround to her, but anyways she
goes in and talks about howshe's going to do it her own way
.
She's just asking for trouble,asking for it, and this whole
thing is a self-promotionalpiece wrapped in an op-ed.
(40:06):
So, yeah, I just.
And her business is only alittle bit over a year old, so
she probably isn't at the pointyet where she really needs.
I mean, I can't imagine howmany employees she has.
You know, under 100.
You could probably get awaywithout a true hr person.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
You might want someone to bounce stuff off of,
but yeah, they she has a lawyerwho knows a little employment
law and can at least tell her toshut the fuck up yeah, hey you
are wrong don't say stupid shitat work and don't publish pieces
(40:46):
like this yeah, just the thevitriol for hr.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
and like I do read the anti-HR subreddits
occasionally, I do read thosethings and it's the same.
You know not coming fromsomeone of her level and
everything, but it's the samestuff every single time.
Hr made me do this or I lost myjob because HR Nobody in the
history of the world is.
(41:11):
I won't say this.
It doesn't happen veryfrequently that someone loses
their job because of HR, you doit to yourself.
If HR and what it is is, theygot shitty managers that say,
well, hr says I have to fire youbecause you know that's where
all this bad HR comes from.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Real talk.
We had to like tell managers wewould do performance reviews
and we would have calibration,and then some people's scores
would change from like a, from athree to a two or something,
and it was a three point scale.
It's fine.
But the manager would be likewell, I really wanted to give
you a three, but and it was likecome on, like okay, first of
(41:55):
all, why can't you just be aleader, like yeah, have a
decision and stick with it?
And also like we can tell whenyou're over inflating ratings
for people, like not everyone onyour team is an, a player, like
sorry, it's just very seldomthat that happens.
So it's just like, why are youpulling it on HR?
(42:16):
But that's like another exampleof oh, my HR made me do it.
No, hr, no, grow some huevos,just do your job.
I'm on fire tonight.
I'm so sorry this woman has meso riled up.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
No, I agree.
Like I said, I read this.
You said it just before 8,right around eight o'clock.
I read it.
I was like just whoa whoa.
Like I said, I could go linefor line down this whole article
and just say that some of thestupid things, oh, front of
house employees, builders,makers and service providers
(42:53):
must spend a significant amountof time thinking about the words
they use rather than theiractual jobs.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Really, when does that really happen?
I don't know.
Do you read emails?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
No one's thinking about the words they're putting
in there Exactly.
Well, are your employees justso uncouth that they can't have
any common dignity and respectfor other human beings?
There's a lot of people I don'tlike in this world.
I'm not going to sit there atwork and do anything that you
know.
Even I can't even think ofsomebody the worst boss I've
(43:29):
ever had let's say they were mysubordinate oh gosh, this is
just this, thisfill-in-the-blank protected
class or whatever is such awhatever People don't do.
I won't say people don't dothat, because John Hyman has a
list and it's pretty long everyyear, but most, the vast, vast
majority of people don't have,don't do this type of stuff.
(43:51):
They understand.
Hey, let's just be good humanbeings and treat each other
nicely.
And if you treat each othernicely, they're going to like
where they work and they'regoing to do better for you and
they're going to feel moreengaged.
And I would go as far to saythat maybe some of her employees
have additional stress becausethey maybe don't agree with her
(44:11):
political beliefs and her and Iwas asking you what the question
before we started recording.
What's the opposite of woke?
I don't know what the oppositeof this person is no brain
activity.
But you're going to havesomeone in there that their son
or daughter might be, might betransitioning or not in her
(44:42):
world of, you know, beingmisgendered or something like
that.
That's, that's a whole notherthing and saying, bragging, that
they misgender people.
I mean I feel bad just callingsomeone by the wrong name and I
am awful with names you knowit's funny, like really quick,
like before we go too too long,so thanks.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Speaking of policing words, oh, a friend of mine, her
, her husband, is working for anaustralian-based company and he
was talking about, like theirwork culture is so beyond insane
that, like they, they drop thec word every five seconds at
(45:17):
work and that is the britishthing.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
It's a australian thing.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
They oh yeah, and it's just like so funny to hear
him talk and it's just so funny,like just to be like, oh, just,
he don't worry about him, he'ssuch a c word and then like what
, like so it was just funny formy friend's husband.
He's like an executive levelindividual, like he's VP level,
and he was just like.
(45:42):
I feel like I am the mostpolished and prude person in
that room because, and he is nota polished or prude person.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Oh, it is so funny.
Well, I thought you were goingto go down another route because
Ashley, also from HR Bestiesand one of their older like
maybe first year podcastepisodes Ashley was talking
about she worked for amultinational company and they
wanted them to use more of theBritish pronunciation of things
like process and thingsAmericans to use those terms.
(46:18):
I'm like and she's like, why?
Why are you doing that?
If I were to be told to use theword or pronounce, I should say
process or whatever.
You know all the.
You know the little fun,intricate differences between
our.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Oh, I could take the lift.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
You know the lift.
Yeah, oh, hold the lift, youknow, or whatever, I don't know,
it's just those things.
I'm not really.
If they say lift, I sayelevator.
We know what each other aresaying, you know, and and things
like that.
I don't see the need to askyour employees to, to adapt to,
even if it's the same language,the nuances and quirks of that's
(47:00):
just a stupid American sayingthe American word.
So, anyways, I just think thatwas funny.
I sort of thought that's wherethe direction you're going to go
with these internationalcompanies.
So, yeah, well, I think we'vehad enough fun for today at the
expense of our friend at XXXYAthletics.
(47:24):
Yeah, good luck with that.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Good luck in your first lawsuit.
Yeah, have the day you deserve.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Have the day you deserve and remember if you are
going to sue her.
You can find this article onGoogle her name or search New
York Post.
You can find it right there.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
Because the internet is forever.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
And we're going to be talking about something very
close to that very soon.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Speaking of yes, yes.
Some foreshadowing.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
This episode we're talking about is going to take
some real research and dive andit's going to be.
I've got production ideas ofhow we're going to do it already
.
That's why we're not runningwith it already.
That might be our July episode.
That isn't an office episode.
So, wow, this was fun.
(48:13):
This really was a lot of fun.
We've almost gone an hour and Ididn't didn't think we'd get
anywhere near that long.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
I had some rage, we released some rage.
It was good, good time.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Exactly.
Let's see here.
I want to thank our Patreonsupporters.
If we have any more after thisHallie, the original Jaded HR
rock star, bill and Mike.
Thank you for supporting us.
You can support us too.
I haven't looked for reviews insince the last time I talked
about it, oh, oh, but you got itsomething on.
You got some feedback on yourInstagram from listener feedback
(48:45):
.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
I got listener feedback, Okay so we got
something wrong people.
We got something wrong.
And let me just say when I'mwrong, thing wrong.
And let me just say when I'mwrong, I will say I'm wrong.
So apparently in our februaryepisode or march, when we were
talking about an individual atwork, their team was doing a
myers briggs that was likethemed for star wars.
(49:07):
Oh, it was in may, that's whatit was.
Yeah, um made the fourth.
It's my most treasured holiday.
We were like kind of ragging onthis woman, being like, oh you
know, this is why we can't havenice things, karen.
So it turns out that she wasn'tupset that she got the Darth
Vader rating.
(49:28):
It was that people took thetest for her and did the answers
as if they were for her.
So in this case it does changethe perspective a little bit
that maybe her team was bullyingher a little bit, so she did
not take the test.
It was just her team that wasjust effing with her.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Yeah, yeah, but there's something like that.
If someone took the test, I,you know, we, we took the test,
we misrepresented it, we werewrong, whatever you want to say.
But if someone took the testthat made me out to be Darth
Vader or Jar Jar Binks oranything like that, I'd roll
with it.
I'd have some fun Jar Jar.
Speaker 3 (50:13):
Screw that If people made me Jar Jar Binks, I would
be quitting my job.
I am no group Jar Jar Binks.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
But yeah, the only person hated more than Darth
Vader.
People love Darth Vader.
Actually.
That's a great thing about StarWars.
You love the bad guys too DarthMaul, darth Vader, the Emperor
you love the bad guys as much asyou like the good guys Even
more sometimes.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Even more.
You know what the villains areoften more times more complex
and more interesting.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Kylo Ren.
See, Exactly so.
Anyways, we did get somefeedback.
If you have any feedback for us, if we get something wrong, let
us know.
We'll eat our crow with that.
Anyways, thank you for thefeedback and let's see here.
The only other thing I need todo is thank the voice artist,
Andrew Culpa, who does theannouncement at the beginning,
(51:04):
the disclaimer and then theunderscore.
Orchestra for use of the themesong devil with the devil, so
with all that fun stuff.
Said as always, I'm Warren, I'mCece and we're here helping you
survive HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Yay, thank you.
Had you actually read the email, you would know that
the podcast you are about tolisten to could contain explicit
language and offensive content.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Welcome to JDHR, the podcast by two HR professionals
who want to help you get throughthe workday by saying
everything you're thinking, butsay it out loud.
I'm Warren, I'm Cece.
We are back on a normalschedule, as we're saying.
This week we have this one.
Next week we have OfficeRewatch.
The week after that, july 10th,we'll be dropping another new
episode, but July 24th I'm goingto be out of town and unless we
(01:15):
record two, maybe we'll do it.
Maybe we'll record two and do asecond Office one and then drop
that.
That's require a little bitless work on my end.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
That'd be awesome.
Give the people what they want.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, and y'all seem to be enjoying the office
episode, so next week we'll haveone of those as well.
So, ah, wow, well, we weretalking off air about and we've
we've mentioned on there beforeas well you as a listener,
really really like when we shiton SHRM.
Our last episode yet againwhile we're talking about SHRM
(01:50):
had well above average downloadnumbers, in the first two weeks
at least.
And, yeah, you all, really,everything that we start talking
about SHRM has higher downloads.
So I'm going to start off bytalking about SHRM.
Give the people what they want.
The algorithm we're doing itfor the algo.
So anyways and I got this, Iwill say, from Jamie Jackson on
(02:13):
one of her Instagram accountsSHRM has added yet another
keynote speaker to the SHRM 2025.
And that is Joe Biden.
And you know this is going tobe a hard episode not to go
political in.
I've mentioned it any number oftimes.
(02:34):
I consider myself fiercelyindependent and nobody on the
right likes my opinions.
Nobody on the left likes myopinions.
I usually keep them to myself.
But Jamie and a few otherpeople since I saw Jamie's first
with it have come up with thetheory that this is a F you sort
of to Donald Trump in terms ofJCT not getting the Secretary of
(02:55):
Labor position that it looked.
Everybody was saying it was his.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Look at that headcanon.
Let's keep that story.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Let's keep that story going, okay.
So yeah, I don't know ifthere's any truth to it.
I did, I think, online.
I watched George W Bush, hisinterview with Johnny C Taylor
and, honestly, the politics side, it was a good interview.
It was good, it was funny, itwas basically what you want.
Was that two or three years ago?
(03:24):
I don't remember, I forget.
It was good.
I think Joe Biden, because hefrom day one has been such a
staunch pro-labor, is going tobe very interesting.
And I've said before I thinkSherm has really gone pro-labor
over the past five, 10 years ormore.
So I think that's going to bean interesting conversation.
(03:47):
So yeah, I can see Joe Bidenbeing a little bit more than
just a political hack.
The speaker, you know a giant,not just big name, giant name,
but I'm just wondering how muchof my dues are paying for this.
And honestly, because of hispro-labor background, it might
(04:08):
have a little more substancethan maybe, say, and I just
remember thinking that the Bushtalk with JCT wasn't bad and it
was pretty good, but I can'tremember the first thing they
discussed at all.
So I don't know what is goingto be said or how it would
compare, but he does have alittle bit of chops to talk
(04:32):
about labor and HR issues.
To that extent I would say soyeah, well, we will see where
that one goes.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I'd be down.
I'd be down to see him talk.
I mean, I saw Martha Stewarttalk, so I think Joe Biden's
better than Martha Stewart, inmy opinion, in my taste, I would
say, but I don't know.
That would be interesting.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
It's just always so weird.
I always wonder what thethought process is for selecting
these speakers.
So who's available.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Who can we afford Exactly?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
However, I am going to say I like the theory that
this was an SEO, because youknow like I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
You want it to be true.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
And I think I sometimes think Trump would be
butthurt over that.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Oh yeah, he'll be butthurt over anything, anything
Of all weeks, you know, of allweeks us to meander into
political realms like we'regoing through today, the week
we're having.
If you haven't been anywhere inthe world for the past, I don't
know since Saturday.
(05:40):
It's been a pretty interestingcouple of days here, but keep
out of that as well.
I need a nap, I need a nap, Ineed a nap, yeah, so let's
switch gears.
I'm going to tell I've got acouple of stories that have
happened to me the past few daysand I just wanted to share
nothing.
I don't know we're.
(06:00):
If we discuss, we discuss.
If not, we'll just move on tothe next.
So one of my things thepresident of my company is
pretty strong about me actuallyrunning the new hire
orientations, and then not onlyme running it, but each of the
directors.
If you're talking about projectcontrols, the director of
(06:20):
project controls is coming thehigh level for the new hires to
get to know everybody.
But I'm sort of in there allday coordinating and I'm
g-chatting the next personsaying, okay, you're up in five
minutes, if I remember I'm verybad about uh, I'm very bad about
remembering the oh, yeah, yeah,ping the next person and and
things like that.
So we, that's what we do.
Well, one of the the speakersI'm going to let this person
(06:43):
rename, nameless or by title orname or anything like that.
Like I said, a couple of peoplefrom the work listen and they
will know, but one person.
They start off the very firstthing they say after the intros
and all that and who they areand what they do.
They say I can't stand readingverbatim from PowerPoint slides.
Yet for the next half hour weget letter for letter.
(07:05):
And not only are they readingletter for letter off the
PowerPoint slides, they arebutchering it the same thing
they've been saying for yearsand they are talking very
robotic, like they are actuallyreading this.
And it's so painful for me.
I'm just sitting there at thispoint.
(07:26):
A lot of times I'm checking myemail and trying to, because
orientation lasts half a day.
I'm trying not to fall behindon the rest of my duties while
other people are speaking.
But it's just like and I'm sotempted to pull like Christine
Applegate did to Ron Burgundy inAnchorman just change the
(07:48):
teleprompter and make it saysomething completely ridiculous
and she would read that shitstraight on through without even
realizing what she's saying.
Part of me just wants to dothat.
So bad, just because I'm anasshole sometimes.
That's the worst.
It would make it fun for me atleast.
But anyways, part of me justwants to do that so bad just
because I'm an asshole.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
sometimes that's the worst, it would make it fun for
me at least.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But anyways, let's see here and the second thing I
put, it's just a one-liner hereExample of no good deed goes
unpunished A situation wheresomeone on my team went the
extra mile for one employee andsomebody else got jealous and
got butt hurt that nobody's gonethe extra mile for them and I'm
(08:30):
like I've never known you needany assistance.
But anyways, I'm just like thatsucks yeah.
And I don't want my person tothink they should not do that.
I'm very proud of what they did, right.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
No good deed goes unpunished.
Yeah, so one of my securityblanket or comfort blanket shows
is the show Superstore.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yes, you've talked about that.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
I love that show but if you've never heard of it,
it's very much like the Officeand it's very much like Parks
and Recreation Of that nature.
But it's a show that happens in, like this fictional version of
Walmart, and it's everyone whoworks there and they're mostly
all like floor workers andthere's like one episode episode
(09:25):
it was like one of the firstepisodes and one of the main
characters tells another maincharacter you don't help people
here.
Helping people is likequicksand, it'll suck you down
and the whole episode is likejust people, like no good deed
goes unpunished and at the endthey all have to take a sexual
harassment course so it's agreat show, again if you've
(09:48):
never watched it give it a watch.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
I keep meaning to watch that.
As you've spoken about it acouple times, I've heard other
people speak about it, I keepmeaning to.
I'm I'm back on my food networkaddiction, watching old shows
and crap like that.
And then, of course, we lostann burrell.
We lost ann Burrell.
We lost Anne Burrell last week,I heard.
I've been you know she was onIron Chef like 25 plus years ago
(10:10):
and I've just seen her on FoodNetwork and those shows forever.
I've been a Food Network junkiefor that long and if, like my
wife, her TV noise, if you will,is investigation, discovery and
all that true crime stuff.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
My TV noise is Food Network and so if I'm just
sitting there scrolling throughFacebook or doing something else
completely mindless, you canpretty much guarantee Food
Network is on in the backgroundand I just love it.
But anyways, yeah.
So here is a question I wasasked just earlier this week and
(10:50):
it's just too perfect of aquestion to not talk about.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I'm here for it and I wrote it down word for word.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
They caught me in the hallway.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I have a question about the handbook, so I'm going
to stop there.
I hear that and I'm going tostop there.
I hear that and I'm thinking,yes, somebody's read it and
wants to know.
Actually, I'm currently workingon handbook updates and things
and I was like, oh, maybe thisis something I can add to
clarify if they have a question,maybe something wasn't crystal
clear.
But they go on and then it goesfrom here how many days
(11:29):
bereavement do I get for mysister-in-law passing away?
So in their question theyacknowledge they know the answer
is going to be in the handbook,correct.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
But they don't go to the freaking handbook to get
that answer.
We just used you like apersonification of Ask Jeeves.
Yes, we just used you like apersonification of Ask Jeeves
yes, Ask Jeeves Can you pleaseregurgitate something from the
handbook, because I am too lazyto look it up.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Exactly.
But I honestly had my littleToby moment I got excited about.
You know, toby gets to breakout his book and he gets to do
some real HR work, like laterway down the road, and he's all
excited and into it.
And I'm like, oh, somebody readthe handbook and I'm thinking,
like I said, I'm doing handbookupdates and there's a couple of
(12:11):
things I think could beclarified.
I'm like, ooh, like this willbe opportunity for me to find
out.
Maybe something else isn'tcleared I can update.
But no, you asked me a questionacknowledging that the answer
is in the handbook and I stillanswered acknowledging that the
answer is in the handbook and Istill answered I'm a.
I'm a.
You know, I'm jaded on thepodcast.
I'm jaded at home.
I'm not.
I I shouldn't say I'm not.
I try my hardest not to bejaded at work, but yeah, I'm
(12:35):
really not jaded this podcast.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
It really just it's not jaded.
Okay, I'm gonna really I'mgonna try to look this up really
quick.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Because you said something about the handbook and
that reminded me of a post Isaw last night on Human
Resources Reddit that made mecrack up.
Let's see, okay, here we go.
We're going off script today.
Okay, so this was on the humanresources subreddit and it says
(13:12):
we have an employee that isoftentimes not wearing a bra to
work.
Some days it is not extremelynoticeable because she wears
blazers and sweaters, but otherdays and this is the quote from
the reddit post from the managerthey are just out there okay so
(13:33):
we are a government entity andoften deal with members of the
public.
Any advice on approaching this?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
we require business dress and would like her to wear
a bra oh gosh, I don't want totouch this one with a 10-foot I
don't want to so I think there'sactually been case law, and
it's in the back of my mind thatthat can be discriminatory,
requiring certain undergarmentsfor women that aren't required
(14:01):
for men, and and things likethat so, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
So anyway, someone did say like I don't see this
going well for you.
You can have that conversation,but then go right to your legal
department because you're goingto need them yes go to your
legal department first, thenhave a conversation and then
there are some people who arelike you.
(14:28):
You might have to talk to herabout what professional conduct
means in the handbook andeveryone's like I don't want to
touch this, like nobody.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
No one wanted this, so anyway nobody wants to touch
it, but, as hr, it's one ofthose things you're going to get
reeled into and it depends onhow visible everything is and
things like that.
Are they hanging low?
Are they hanging out?
Is it very cold in there?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I think the issue is that it's very cold.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
So I think everyone's just like.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Everybody knows.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
The other piece of it is like really man, like.
Why is the man really Like?
I don't know, it's just, it's adumb conversation to have.
But something came up in thehandbook about it being like,
like how you put dress code inthe handbook.
I thought it was an interestingrabbit hole to go down.
The consensus in that group wasdon't even fucking think about
(15:28):
it.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Unless you're going to, unless you're going to,
mandate all the men to likecover their nipples then, you.
You have no nothing to stand on.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Exactly, and and then being a man, hr, which we're
going to discuss a little bitlater, there's like so I'm
coming out of that conversationas a creep, no matter how much
time I spend wordsmithing it andtrying to be politically
correct, I'm going to be thecreepster, I'm going to be the I
(15:59):
don't know what the word is,but I'm going to be the shunned
person for that, yeah, and let'ssee here.
So, okay, this is today.
Just this morning this occurred, and so this is the.
Am I the asshole, is Warren theasshole?
(16:20):
And generally, speaking theanswer is yes.
But where I work, new employeeshave to do eight hours of DOD
training.
It's done on external websitesthrough the DCSA or what I don't
even know the acronyms oranything like that, but it's
done externally.
And then, as you're doing thetraining, the first page of this
(16:43):
, when you get to the externaltrainings, you do your internal
training too on this.
But in the RLMS, the first pageit goes to, it says you must
download the course completioncertificate and turn it into
receive credit.
That's on the overview page.
Then you get to the individualmodule and it says the exact
same thing you must download thecourse completion certificate
(17:05):
and turn it into HR to receivecredit.
Then you go to the externalsite and in bold letters now
there's a lot of verbiage hereso this one can be lost but the
external site at the DCSA saysyou must print or save a local
copy of the certificate as proofof course completion.
Cdse does not maintain courserecords of completion and so
(17:26):
anyways.
So, and then the website, theexternal website right before,
shows you your certificate.
It tells you again so that'sfour times.
You're being told download thecertificate, download the
certificate.
New employee not very technical, friendly person goes through,
does all his training and didonly well.
(17:47):
He downloaded two of thecertificates.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Two of four Halfway there.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Well, there's like six of them, so he downloaded
two of the certificates, two offour Halfway there.
Well, there's like six of them,so he did two of six that he had
to do, but it tells you fourtimes that it's in there,
anyways.
So I'm telling him well,unfortunately, you're going to
have to go back and redo these,and these are not trainings that
you can just click next, next,next, next and get through one,
like a lot of training you can.
You know, you have to wait forthe play bar to get all the way
(18:13):
to the other end of the screenbefore you can hit next, or the
next screen doesn't even applyup here until you get to that
point.
So I tell him well,unfortunately, you're going to
have to do this all again.
So the employee is upset withme.
So the manager comes to me andthe manager says well, you only
allow eight hours for training,how are we supposed to pay him
(18:35):
for this?
And I this is why I said thisis a quote, not my problem I
said we've already paid him formy training budget to do this,
this training, so it's notcoming from the training budget.
You can talk to your VP aboutusing overhead, using something
else, but it's not coming fromthe training budget.
And he did not like that.
(18:58):
So what say ye in the L&D worldof where we have to bill for
training, allocate our hours andthings like that.
It's not coming out of mybudget like that.
Where I'm not, it's not comingout of my budget.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
I would say that this person has failed on their
first day and they are toimmediately be sent home.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
No.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
And the thing is they are a.
They're not going to work withcomputers.
They're not going to.
They're going to work withcomputers once a year.
They're annual training, whichis good Looks like next year is
going to be really fun for us.
And then open enrollment.
They'll have to do annualtraining, but, yeah, they're not
going to be.
Well, they have to do theirtime cards online, but I think
(19:42):
we've got that covered prettywell.
But, yeah, you've got two ofthem done.
I don't know, it's just you haveto do it now, like I said, the
one page where it says on thefront page of the external page,
where it says that the, whereit says you must download and
they don't record taking it, orwhatever it says it does not
(20:03):
maintain records of course,completions.
That's buried in just a ton ofverbiage.
So you know, you know, unlessyou know, it's there Anyways.
So that was my this morningtype thing.
So let's get to the meat andpotatoes.
You found this great article,just like we start recording at
(20:25):
830.
I think you sent it to me after8 pm, yeah, to look at and I
was like you know, I've got awhole page of stuff to cover.
I'm like Nope, this, this is it.
This is going to be the theshow today.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
I just want to say that this is, this is real time
power of HR.
This is I'm gonna let my secretgo my weekly prompt, or my pre
podcast prompt of give me arundown of things that are
relevant in HR in the news thisweek, and then it just tells me
Okay, using AI, exactly.
(21:00):
Oh, my gosh.
Oh, by the way, my AI.
I have personified it.
It is my assistant.
His name is so pierre did.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Helps me with my research now, okay, I, I use I
have gemini, which is all goingto be replaced by I can't say it
because the google assistantI'm looking to watch my monitor
here behind me to save itlistens in.
But I made it a british femalevoice and my wife hates that.
I was like it's.
I've made it a British femalevoice and my wife hates that.
I was like I made it personaland things like that.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
But with that, Kevin does the same thing.
It's a British woman.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I don't know.
I think it's the best soundingvoice overall Anglophile, I
guess, but anyways.
Yeah, but right now Jim and Istill have the same voice.
But I have gotten Jim and I toremember certain things, to say,
okay, I'm getting ready to goto Costa Rica.
I've programmed it to say teachme 10 phrases in Spanish a day,
(22:04):
but when I ask you to do that,make sure it is pertinent to
Costa Rica, because they give meBarcelona, or you would say
Barthelona, as they would say.
Different things mean you knowdifferent contexts of Spanish
all over the world and anyways.
So I've been trying to do that,as I've embarrassed myself too
(22:26):
many times trying to remember myjunior high Spanish and failing
I've probably told the story onthe podcast before.
We were in Puerto Rico visitingmy sister as a house there and
we were in a parking garagetrying to get out.
I'm actually doing really wellspeaking Spanish.
Mid-sentence I switchedstraight over to German and my
(22:47):
kids are in the backseatlaughing.
I used to speak German veryfluently, got a German
scholarship and things like that.
And I didn't realize it until weleft and my daughter and son
were just like in tears.
My wife doesn't have a cluewhat I'm saying in any language,
even English, but they said youweren't speaking Spanish, dad'm
(23:08):
like what?
And?
And I was like what I didn'tsay anyway.
So yeah, but I love the way youcan personalize it and give it
commands and give it like I askit for things about podcasts and
I I've set it up to findinformation for about jaded hr,
if it's ever mentioned.
It hasn't been mentioned, butonce yet.
But but see if we get anymentions and things like that.
(23:31):
So anyhow, back to the story.
This stupid story, All rightWell okay, it's both got me
thinking get me fired up.
As I said, it did get me firedup when you sent it to me, but
there's some points to it.
In HR, when you give a review,some managers like to give you
(23:52):
some good news, then the badnews and then the good news
again, and I call it the shitsandwich, because nobody hears.
The employee only hears thegood stuff at the ends and
doesn't hear what they need tohear in the middle.
Well, this will be an open faceshit sandwich.
I'm going to start by sayingsome good things about this
article, but then the rest of itshit.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
I am Well as we talk about this.
I was very heated about this atfirst.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And then, as I was like piecing things together, I
was like that meme with thewoman in the math.
I was like, oh, I see what thisis, so we'll get to that in a
second.
Okay, oh, okay I'll let you.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I was gonna say, give us your theory.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
What you're thinking is, I had a theory, a similar
theory no, because I feel likeonce we go through this, I feel
like our audience will becatching on pretty soon too.
So yeah, so there's an articlein the the New York Post and it
was by a woman named JenniferSay S-E-Y.
So she's a former Levi's brandmanager or brand president, and
(25:00):
she started a startup companyand she decided to write this
like op-ed.
So the company is called XX x xy athletics and it is the
company is to protect women'ssports, so you know I'm gonna
stop you there's.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
That's where I was going to give it two giant
thumbs up.
Okay, because you know I'm notgoing to try.
I'm going to try my hardest andI get a bit political.
But where I really feelstrongly about is men competing
as women in women's sports.
(25:40):
We saw in the Olympics theboxing debacle, the Canadian
lady who would not box, theRussian man, and things like
that.
I, you know if someone wants tobe trans or it doesn't affect
me in any way, shape or form.
But when I see, especially in asport like boxing or some of
these other sports, where thesemen are, it's just abuse of of
(26:07):
women at that point so I'magainst.
You can be trans, you can be.
If you're going to compete, youhave to compete at the right
level.
I mean, go, I'll try and go.
Go back to the seventies whenBillie Jean King used to play
Arthur Ashe, the two best tennisplayers at the time in the
world.
Billie Jean King couldn't keepup with Arthur Ashe.
(26:31):
In golf there's been the bestfemale golfers playing some of
the best men and it doesn't endup well In sports.
You see what's made all theheadlines a couple of years ago
and I can't remember the girl'sname or the man's name, the
female swimmer I think she'sfrom Georgia and the man swimmer
(26:52):
who competed for multiple yearsas a man I can't remember
either names, but he was likeranked like 200 in men as a man.
Then he became a woman and wasthe top ranked woman, etc.
So it's yeah, I don't believe.
Even if it's not physicalcompetition like contact
competition, I don't believethat.
(27:14):
That's my own opinion.
I'll just sort of live and dieon that.
But I do applaud that.
That's what her company basisis for, because I would not want
my daughter I don't knowplaying racquetball.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
The cards are stacked against you physiologically,
and yeah, I wasn't even goinglike whoa, no, no, like I was
just saying that this, so, aswe're going to dig into this,
it's not even whether or notyou're totally you know, we are
not a political podcast, I'mjust like you're totally
entitled to your opinion.
But I'm saying I think what Iwas going to say was I think
(27:52):
this is a strategic move andthis is nothing but rage bait to
promote her company, which,bing, bing, bing, bing or not,
yes, and that's what I was goingto say.
I don't think this has anythingto do with.
Like her, she just wants to saysomething provocative so that
we all kind of and she knows, Imean honestly like I think
(28:16):
there's, she's clearly very aswe go through it, she clearly
has political beliefs and she isusing those political beliefs
as we go through her thoughts onhr and dei, and I think that's
what this is.
This is just a rage-baityarticle that is going to be like
I'm the next company that'sgoing to eliminate HR and it's
(28:39):
like no, you're not, you'regoing to have fucking problems
is what you're going to fuckinghave because you don't have HR.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
You've said absolutely everything.
I've seen as I read the article.
That was the good piece of theshit.
You've said absolutelyeverything.
I've seen as I read the article.
That was the good piece of theshit sandwich.
The rest of it is not going.
I'm not going to agree withthis person on a lot, but I do
think it is an op-ed.
Anybody can write an op-ed.
It's well-written.
(29:09):
I can't say anything bad aboutthat.
But I, so bad, just want to goline by line reading this
article and stating what it is,because, honestly, I don't know
any other way to do it, becauseI can't just pick a line here
and a line there.
It's like 80% of this articleis provocative to the point that
(29:36):
we've got to say somethingabout it.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
She argues that HR today is more about ideological
policing than supporting peopleor profits, and this is a quote
from her.
So HR once protected companiesfrom lawsuits.
Now it's a woke mob enforcingDEI ideology and yeah, which I
love that garbage.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
So, yeah, I'm like just lockstep with everything
you've said on this, but onething that stood out in terms of
making this be a self-promotionarticle versus a true op-ed
article let's say somethinginflammatory.
They'll get picked up a lot ofplaces and if you're going to
(30:23):
get picked up somewhere, the NewYork Post is not a bad place to
do it.
But she talks about herInstagram post that said the
exact same thing when sheannounced I want to be the first
company without HR, and theaudience went wild and the line
(30:43):
went viral in an Instagram postwith over 5 million views.
That tells me everything.
That paragraph tells me.
Yeah, this is self-promotionwith some clickbait in it to get
the HR people reading it, andthings like that.
So, yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I think my favorite quote is when she said I'm gonna
misquote it but she basicallysaid I'm running a business and
I don't need the women of theview walking around the office
policing what people can andcannot say.
And I was like, well, that'sjust fucking misogynistic, first
(31:21):
of all.
Second of all, okay, so we gota glimpse of Warren's point of
view.
Now we're getting a glimpse ofChristina's point of view,
Because I'm like, honestly, I'ma little bit of like a staunch
feminist.
So when I hear people turningHR into like it's like the
women's club and it's thewomen's like and it's the mean
girls of corporate and I thinkshe actually said like the mean
(31:45):
girls or the whatever sendingout their corporate memos, I'm
like fuck you.
I'm so sorry, Like get, Ididn't pray, you just me Coming
from a feminist point of view.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Think of it from a dude point of view.
I don't know what it is,because she does harp on women.
She does, and I know when II've said it on the podcast
probably before.
You know all the HR, you knowkindergarten teachers wearing
their fuzzy sweaters and youknow singing kumbaya and holding
hands and things like that.
I don't think that getsterribly misogynistic.
(32:17):
It probably is, but not as badas this lady gets.
Because here we go, hrdepartments today are packed
with Tracy Flicks.
The way-too-eager high schoolerplayed by Reese Witherspoon in
the movie Election Flick is thearchetypal head girl, a term
derived from the British schoolsystem that is tight hierarchy
(32:37):
of internal discipline andambitious and officious with
little actual skill or intellect.
Hand razors like these are notselected to lead for their
intelligence or ability, butconscientious and willingness to
follow and uphold the rules.
That's fine when HR had nopower, and okay, that's fine
when HR had no power, and okaythis whole thing.
(32:59):
And she was with Levi's and shewas with these other companies
you mentioned.
It sounds like she's never beeninvolved with a real
professional HR team or real HRprofessionals.
I'll say it any number of timesHR.
The reason we are thelaughingstock of professions is
(33:20):
oh, you were a good fill in theblank, you'll be great in HR.
And we get the wrong people whowant to have a pizza party, who
want to put up a really prettybulletin board and have an
employee of the month type thingall the fun, cool kumbaya type
stuff, but it doesn't cut itwhen the shit hits the fan, it
(33:45):
really doesn't.
So, yeah, I think she's beenexposed to the wrong HR.
Let's see here what I had andyou mentioned about the wanting
to police the words you say In30, almost 30 years of working
in HR, yes, I have told peoplethey can't say words, but
(34:06):
they're usually some really big,important words that we're not
going to be.
I'm not going to say on thepodcast, say on the podcast, and
those are the type of wordsI've had to have the wonderful
conversations.
We don't say these at work orthis is why you're being fired
because you have said these atwork, type things.
I've never told somebody theycan't say a certain word now,
(34:28):
but she goes on.
I want to scroll down to the ohanyways.
And now in the 2020s, hr assertsits newly found clout with
tyrannical zeal Tyrannical zeal,Tyrannical zeal yeah but let me
scroll to the end here, whereshe said something oh okay, my
(34:49):
company is a walking talking HRviolation.
She says we misgender all daylong.
In fact, speaking the truth, asI call it, is required to work
here.
We're not in school anymore.
We don't need a persnicketymismanners adequate enforcer
telling us to be nice.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
How dare we treat someone the way they want to be
treated?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
So, yeah, by saying and promoting that what're doing
, what she's doing, she's goingto find and knock on wood, I
have not found this employee yet.
But there are those employeesout there.
They're just looking to gethired so they can sue your ass.
And so they're going to hiresomeone that they don't know is
(35:36):
trans or I don't even know allthe correct terminology not cis,
male or whatever the rightthing is to say.
I'm too old to follow all thatstuff.
But anyways, and that person isgoing to sue them and they're
going to refer to this articlewhere she says oh yeah, in June
(35:58):
of 2025, she says weintentionally do it and it is
required at our job.
And this is why you need an HRperson, asshole, I tell you,
because you are going to getyourself sued.
And, yes, that's part of whatHR does is we do help enforce,
trying to keep your ass out of asling as much as we can.
But anyways, I'll continue togo on, go it alone without HR.
(36:22):
So I'll assume the so-calledrisk so I can lead in my own
voice and all the things shesays throughout here that HR
does.
Hr is not the one making thosedecisions.
It's either A, a law, b comingfrom the C-level suite, that
this is what we're going to dohere.
And even if HR said, hey, demi,that's not the best idea, nope,
ceo says it's doing that, okay,we're doing that type of thing.
(36:46):
She's never had good HR.
Oh, there were some other goodthings, oh.
So she interviewed in 2023 forCEO at an $8 billion retailer
and she went through all thisinterview things and then her
interview.
My last interview was with theHR representative on the board.
Her first question was will youapologize for what you've done
(37:10):
and what I've done?
I was an advocate for openingschools during COVID.
Blah, blah, blah.
That didn't matter to the HRlady.
I violated her tightly enforcedscript.
I didn't apologize and I didn'tget the job.
And then, over the last twodecades this is great HR has
gone from operational support tooperation head.
(37:30):
Girl hall monitor.
Oh oh my gosh, they force feedtrainings about acceptable
language Once again.
Never in my career have I doneanything, done a training on an
enforceable language.
We're not going to have atraining that says, okay, these
are the words you don't use.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
George Carlton's skit .
You have to say the same thing.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
These are the seven magic words.
Well, there's more than sevennowadays words.
Well, there's more than sevennowadays.
But anyways, you don't saythese things.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
They make merit out to be racist.
That's just common sense insociety.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
They make merit out to be racist.
I mean, they set out a criteriabased on risk avoidance rather
than excellence.
Now, risk avoidance can go handin hand with excellence If you
have a well-treated,well-maintained workforce.
That doesn't.
She is going to be on like JohnHyman's worst list of employers
(38:24):
at some point.
She's going to do something soridiculously stupid that she's
going to get the award for this,but anyways, yeah, oh, and she
addresses us, calling hermisogynistic.
Am I being sexist and callingthem head girls?
In 2023, 76% of all HR managersin the US were female.
(38:45):
The shoe fits and, yes, men canbe head girl type too.
These head girls make everyoneadd pronouns that are email
signatures.
It's just these time suckersshould focus away from the
business.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
You know what she is.
She's a corporate pick me.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Like she's literally just like the executive version
of a pick me.
She just she's not like theother girls, she's a she's.
She runs her business like abig woman.
Like OK, I get it.
Like she's not like us, she'slike the man Get out of here, go
away.
I'm tired of you.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah, exactly my critics of my viral comment push
back me.
You need HR to avoidunnecessary risk.
That's the fear HR leverages tomaintain its unearned influence
.
It just everything she says anddoes is just really
stomach-churning in this.
(39:41):
Karma's going to come backaround to her, but anyways she
goes in and talks about howshe's going to do it her own way
.
She's just asking for trouble,asking for it, and this whole
thing is a self-promotionalpiece wrapped in an op-ed.
(40:06):
So, yeah, I just.
And her business is only alittle bit over a year old, so
she probably isn't at the pointyet where she really needs.
I mean, I can't imagine howmany employees she has.
You know, under 100.
You could probably get awaywithout a true hr person.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
You might want someone to bounce stuff off of,
but yeah, they she has a lawyerwho knows a little employment
law and can at least tell her toshut the fuck up yeah, hey you
are wrong don't say stupid shitat work and don't publish pieces
(40:46):
like this yeah, just the thevitriol for hr.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
and like I do read the anti-HR subreddits
occasionally, I do read thosethings and it's the same.
You know not coming fromsomeone of her level and
everything, but it's the samestuff every single time.
Hr made me do this or I lost myjob because HR Nobody in the
history of the world is.
(41:11):
I won't say this.
It doesn't happen veryfrequently that someone loses
their job because of HR, you doit to yourself.
If HR and what it is is, theygot shitty managers that say,
well, hr says I have to fire youbecause you know that's where
all this bad HR comes from.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Real talk.
We had to like tell managers wewould do performance reviews
and we would have calibration,and then some people's scores
would change from like a, from athree to a two or something,
and it was a three point scale.
It's fine.
But the manager would be likewell, I really wanted to give
you a three, but and it was likecome on, like okay, first of
(41:55):
all, why can't you just be aleader, like yeah, have a
decision and stick with it?
And also like we can tell whenyou're over inflating ratings
for people, like not everyone onyour team is an, a player, like
sorry, it's just very seldomthat that happens.
So it's just like, why are youpulling it on HR?
(42:16):
But that's like another exampleof oh, my HR made me do it.
No, hr, no, grow some huevos,just do your job.
I'm on fire tonight.
I'm so sorry this woman has meso riled up.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
No, I agree.
Like I said, I read this.
You said it just before 8,right around eight o'clock.
I read it.
I was like just whoa whoa.
Like I said, I could go linefor line down this whole article
and just say that some of thestupid things, oh, front of
house employees, builders,makers and service providers
(42:53):
must spend a significant amountof time thinking about the words
they use rather than theiractual jobs.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Really, when does that really happen?
I don't know.
Do you read emails?
Speaker 2 (43:05):
No one's thinking about the words they're putting
in there Exactly.
Well, are your employees justso uncouth that they can't have
any common dignity and respectfor other human beings?
There's a lot of people I don'tlike in this world.
I'm not going to sit there atwork and do anything that you
know.
Even I can't even think ofsomebody the worst boss I've
(43:29):
ever had let's say they were mysubordinate oh gosh, this is
just this, thisfill-in-the-blank protected
class or whatever is such awhatever People don't do.
I won't say people don't dothat, because John Hyman has a
list and it's pretty long everyyear, but most, the vast, vast
majority of people don't have,don't do this type of stuff.
(43:51):
They understand.
Hey, let's just be good humanbeings and treat each other
nicely.
And if you treat each othernicely, they're going to like
where they work and they'regoing to do better for you and
they're going to feel moreengaged.
And I would go as far to saythat maybe some of her employees
have additional stress becausethey maybe don't agree with her
(44:11):
political beliefs and her and Iwas asking you what the question
before we started recording.
What's the opposite of woke?
I don't know what the oppositeof this person is no brain
activity.
But you're going to havesomeone in there that their son
or daughter might be, might betransitioning or not in her
(44:42):
world of, you know, beingmisgendered or something like
that.
That's, that's a whole notherthing and saying, bragging, that
they misgender people.
I mean I feel bad just callingsomeone by the wrong name and I
am awful with names you knowit's funny, like really quick,
like before we go too too long,so thanks.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Speaking of policing words, oh, a friend of mine, her
, her husband, is working for anaustralian-based company and he
was talking about, like theirwork culture is so beyond insane
that, like they, they drop thec word every five seconds at
(45:17):
work and that is the britishthing.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
It's a australian thing.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
They oh yeah, and it's just like so funny to hear
him talk and it's just so funny,like just to be like, oh, just,
he don't worry about him, he'ssuch a c word and then like what
, like so it was just funny formy friend's husband.
He's like an executive levelindividual, like he's VP level,
and he was just like.
(45:42):
I feel like I am the mostpolished and prude person in
that room because, and he is nota polished or prude person.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Oh, it is so funny.
Well, I thought you were goingto go down another route because
Ashley, also from HR Bestiesand one of their older like
maybe first year podcastepisodes Ashley was talking
about she worked for amultinational company and they
wanted them to use more of theBritish pronunciation of things
like process and thingsAmericans to use those terms.
(46:18):
I'm like and she's like, why?
Why are you doing that?
If I were to be told to use theword or pronounce, I should say
process or whatever.
You know all the.
You know the little fun,intricate differences between
our.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Oh, I could take the lift.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
You know the lift.
Yeah, oh, hold the lift, youknow, or whatever, I don't know,
it's just those things.
I'm not really.
If they say lift, I sayelevator.
We know what each other aresaying, you know, and and things
like that.
I don't see the need to askyour employees to, to adapt to,
even if it's the same language,the nuances and quirks of that's
(47:00):
just a stupid American sayingthe American word.
So, anyways, I just think thatwas funny.
I sort of thought that's wherethe direction you're going to go
with these internationalcompanies.
So, yeah, well, I think we'vehad enough fun for today at the
expense of our friend at XXXYAthletics.
(47:24):
Yeah, good luck with that.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Good luck in your first lawsuit.
Yeah, have the day you deserve.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Have the day you deserve and remember if you are
going to sue her.
You can find this article onGoogle her name or search New
York Post.
You can find it right there.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
Because the internet is forever.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
And we're going to be talking about something very
close to that very soon.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Speaking of yes, yes.
Some foreshadowing.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
This episode we're talking about is going to take
some real research and dive andit's going to be.
I've got production ideas ofhow we're going to do it already
.
That's why we're not runningwith it already.
That might be our July episode.
That isn't an office episode.
So, wow, this was fun.
(48:13):
This really was a lot of fun.
We've almost gone an hour and Ididn't didn't think we'd get
anywhere near that long.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
I had some rage, we released some rage.
It was good, good time.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Exactly.
Let's see here.
I want to thank our Patreonsupporters.
If we have any more after thisHallie, the original Jaded HR
rock star, bill and Mike.
Thank you for supporting us.
You can support us too.
I haven't looked for reviews insince the last time I talked
about it, oh, oh, but you got itsomething on.
You got some feedback on yourInstagram from listener feedback
(48:45):
.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
I got listener feedback, Okay so we got
something wrong people.
We got something wrong.
And let me just say when I'mwrong, thing wrong.
And let me just say when I'mwrong, I will say I'm wrong.
So apparently in our februaryepisode or march, when we were
talking about an individual atwork, their team was doing a
myers briggs that was likethemed for star wars.
(49:07):
Oh, it was in may, that's whatit was.
Yeah, um made the fourth.
It's my most treasured holiday.
We were like kind of ragging onthis woman, being like, oh you
know, this is why we can't havenice things, karen.
So it turns out that she wasn'tupset that she got the Darth
Vader rating.
(49:28):
It was that people took thetest for her and did the answers
as if they were for her.
So in this case it does changethe perspective a little bit
that maybe her team was bullyingher a little bit, so she did
not take the test.
It was just her team that wasjust effing with her.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Yeah, yeah, but there's something like that.
If someone took the test, I,you know, we, we took the test,
we misrepresented it, we werewrong, whatever you want to say.
But if someone took the testthat made me out to be Darth
Vader or Jar Jar Binks oranything like that, I'd roll
with it.
I'd have some fun Jar Jar.
Speaker 3 (50:13):
Screw that If people made me Jar Jar Binks, I would
be quitting my job.
I am no group Jar Jar Binks.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
But yeah, the only person hated more than Darth
Vader.
People love Darth Vader.
Actually.
That's a great thing about StarWars.
You love the bad guys too DarthMaul, darth Vader, the Emperor
you love the bad guys as much asyou like the good guys Even
more sometimes.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Even more.
You know what the villains areoften more times more complex
and more interesting.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Kylo Ren.
See, Exactly so.
Anyways, we did get somefeedback.
If you have any feedback for us, if we get something wrong, let
us know.
We'll eat our crow with that.
Anyways, thank you for thefeedback and let's see here.
The only other thing I need todo is thank the voice artist,
Andrew Culpa, who does theannouncement at the beginning,
(51:04):
the disclaimer and then theunderscore.
Orchestra for use of the themesong devil with the devil, so
with all that fun stuff.
Said as always, I'm Warren, I'mCece and we're here helping you
survive HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Yay, thank you.
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