April 17, 2024 • 47 mins
Ever find yourself shaking your head at questionable recruitment tactics? Join us on Jaded HR as we unravel the sometimes absurd world of human resources with our signature straight talk and a sprinkle of wit. In this particular gabfest, I'm joined by fellow HR aficionados Jazmine and Kristina, with a special shoutout to our pinch hitter filling in for CeeCee. We're spilling the tea on everything from high-pressure job offers to the true colors of the recruitment process. Grab your earbuds, because this is the insider HR chatter you've been craving.
Picture this: a friend's entanglement with a too-good-to-be-true job offer that reeks of desperation rather than opportunity. We dissect these all-too-common scenarios and share firsthand accounts from Jazmine and Kristina, who've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly in the recruitment trenches. Whether you're a seasoned HR pro, a bewildered job seeker, or just along for the ride, you're in the right place to get the lowdown on the employment battlefield. So, come for the rants, stay for the reality checks – we're dishing out the unvarnished truth here at Jaded HR.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrew Quilpa (00:02):
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Warren (00:47):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by three HR
professionals who want to helpyou get through the workday by
saying everything you'rethinking, but say it out loud.
I'm Warren.
Jazmine (00:59):
I'm Jasmine.
I'm Christina.
Warren (01:01):
All right, we got it down.
Third time, fourth time.
What is this fifth?
Jazmine (01:06):
time a charm.
Warren (01:07):
Tommy pressed the record button.
Jazmine (01:09):
I was like wait, we didn't talk about who was saying
it first, who?
Warren (01:13):
goes first, but it worked.
Improv is good, so anyhow.
So it's been a while sincey'all been online with us or
been on there with us.
So, yeah, I'm glad to get y'allbeen online with us.
I've been on on there with us,so, yeah, I'm glad to get y'all
back.
I'm glad you're willing topinch hit for cc as she is out,
but we're going to have a seriesof pinch hitters while cc is
(01:34):
being with baby.
But before we get to our showtoday, I want to announce we
have yet another new patreonsupporter, michael.
So michael joins bill andhallie, the original jaded hr
rock star, as our patreonsupporter.
So thank you very much for yourcontribution.
You can be like them andsupport us on patreon, but if
you want to support the show,you can also leave us a review,
(01:56):
send us a note on a story, anote, something like that on
social media.
Let us know and we'll get youon here and talk about your
story.
So that is what I want to coverfor that today.
But we got a cool topic todayand it's inspired by a
conversation I had with a friendshitty recruiting tactics and I
really thought that we would bebeyond shitty recruiting
(02:20):
tactics, especially in thiseconomy, but it appears not, and
we were talking on the phone.
I think both of you have someexperience with shitty
recruiting tactics in thiseconomy, but I don't know.
So I'll go ahead and dive inwith my friend's story.
They work at a position at ITand they got a call from a
(02:44):
recruiteriter and they're happyin their job.
They weren't really looking tolook there they don't know where
the resume got found oranything like that but they
engaged, said okay, let's, let'sjust see where this goes.
And they had their phoneinterview with the inner
recruiter first round phoneinterview with the company and
then a second round in personwith the company.
And then a few days later theygot called with an offer and you
(03:07):
think, oh, it sounds likeeverything's working the way
it's supposed to.
No, they told me he had tillfive o'clock that day to accept
or decline their offer becausethey had like five other
well-qualified candidates but hewas their number one pick and
they wanted to have him.
And he's just said, no, I'm notplaying that game, that's not
for me, I'm not going to make abig decision in a few hours like
(03:30):
that.
So he just told him flat out no, and about a week later he got
another call from him and saidhey, we'd like to see if you're
still interested in position.
He said, no, I'm not.
Kristina (03:42):
When I said no, I meant no, no.
Warren (03:45):
No means no.
Kristina (03:48):
So they called him back after.
He was like listen, this is notfor me.
And they said we have a newoffer for you, even though we
said they had to get through theother.
Jazmine (04:00):
What four candidates?
Four or five?
Warren (04:02):
candidates To all tell no.
Jazmine (04:04):
So I mean, it took them a minute.
Then they popped back in andsaid hey, what do you think?
Kristina (04:10):
Do you think five other people told them no, or do
you think there was no otherpeople?
Jazmine (04:14):
There were no other people.
Warren (04:17):
In this economy it's searching for y'all.
Both have very good experiencein recruiting, more recent than
my experience in recruiting.
Both have very good experiencein recruiting, more recent than
my experience in recruiting, andto have one good candidate,
much less five.
I mean, if I had the ability, Iwould hire five people if I
found them, and just put it upon operations.
Hey, your turn.
Jazmine (04:42):
And it's not to say that they didn't find great
candidates that could havefilled that role.
But to me, when you arepressuring someone, that
pressure is because, yeah, wemight have some other candidates
but we really don't want to gowith them.
We really would like to go withyou, or this is a quick
turnaround.
Christina, you know ingovernment, you know this is a
quick turnaround.
We have to get this signed offtoday or else we can't be it.
(05:04):
So it's not to say that thereweren't other people, but I mean
, there's a, there's a goodchance that no, it was.
It was just, especially withhow quick the phone interview to
the, to the in-person or othervirtual interviews that they
were having.
That means they had to also dothat with.
(05:24):
You know, at least those fiveother candidates too.
It's just questionable to me.
Warren (05:29):
I didn't think about it that way, but yeah, you're on to
something there.
Why?
Jazmine (05:35):
are you looking like?
Warren (05:35):
that.
Kristina (05:39):
Okay, I want to back up for just a second.
As a recruiter, I hate thisstory because it really it's
evidence against what I telleveryone to do, because I think
that your friend started offgreat right.
He just was like let me, let merespond to this message and see
what comes of it, and I thinkthat that's great.
(06:02):
I think there's no harm in thatIf you are working and you get
a message from a recruiter I Ithink there's no harm in that if
you are working and you get amessage from a recruiter.
I don't think it's nice toignore recruiters.
I don't think it's nice to berude to recruiters and be like
get the hell out of here, whatare you messaging me for?
Because they're just trying todo their job.
But to then take thatopportunity where someone did
(06:23):
entertain your message and thentry to strong on them into
making a very quick decisionwhen it sounds like you weren't
honest in the process, likethat's too much.
That is why people are moreinclined to just ignore our
messages or just to tell us likeyou're stupid, I hate you, I
don't want to work with you, sothat kills this whole.
Like I don't want to work withyou, so that that kills this
(06:45):
whole.
Like I don't know thatrecruiter, I have no idea who
they are, but I don't like you,whoever you are.
Warren (06:54):
That's exactly it.
Kristina (06:55):
You know, jasmine and I talk about this all the time
Changing jobs is a big decisionfor someone to make, and so if,
especially if, I recruitedsomeone who is happily employed,
I will go to great length totry to talk them out of
accepting an offer, to make surethat they are truly interested
in this opportunity.
So there is no, I need adecision from you by morning.
(07:19):
There's no, I don't like the 24hour thing.
You got to give people ampletime to like really think
through.
What are their questions?
What does this process looklike?
How does this impact them, howdoes it impact their family, how
does it impact their dailyroutine and everything?
There's so much to thinkthrough.
It's such a big decision.
Jazmine (07:39):
And that was my thing with it too is like you have to.
It seems that in this situationit moved very fast.
And when you with it too islike you have to.
It seems that in this situationit moved very fast.
And when you're happy,sometimes you don't think about
the things that are there makingyou happy until you go to that
other position and you're like,oh, wait a minute.
You know we did talk aboutbenefits, but I had this at my
(08:03):
previous job benefits, but I hadthis at my previous job and you
said, as you know, thisrecruiter that was trying to get
me in you said this would beone thing.
And then it turns around andthat's not true.
So it's like how can you reallytruly get to know the things
that you need to know?
You, you can't know everythingabout a company.
To me, I don't believe you canknow everything about a company
(08:24):
before you accept their offerletter, but certain things that
you can know.
If you don't have the time todo that, right, there is the red
flag.
Warren (08:33):
And they're not giving you the time, even if I don't
know if he asked hey, I needmore time, but he just said once
they told me you have to tellme by 5 o'clock today.
Jazmine (08:42):
And he was like no, well, me by five o'clock today.
And he was like no, Well, letme make this simple Before we
get off the phone.
Warren (08:51):
I can go ahead and tell you no, yeah, but this economy I
would think you're going to.
You know, nurture yourcandidate and hold their hand
and caress them and send themnice little text messages.
I'm still thinking about youwhen you've got that nice
candidate that you want in therecruiting world.
You know that's what you haveto do these days.
(09:12):
Well, that was like two yearsago.
Jazmine (09:14):
Now the tide is turning where it's like, oh well, the
employee employers have theupper hand again, so we no
longer need to hold hands and wedon't need to reach out to
people and see hey, do you haveany questions?
Now it's just like you know,I'm giving you this information,
make a decision, and I don'tthink that's really what the
(09:36):
market looks like, but I dothink that's what people think.
That is what the market is now.
Is that, oh well, y'all hady'all two, three years of
working from home.
Y'all had y'all two, threeyears of getting like crazy,
sign on bonuses or salaries orall of that, but now it is time
for us to take back.
(09:57):
Y'all are going to come in thisoffice that I pay for, y'all
are going to hit the bareminimum of what, what we should
or have to pay, and y'all aregoing to be okay with it,
because now everyone needs a jobyeah, do you, but do you think
the employers are in charge nowhuh, what did you say?
Warren (10:20):
oh I I was asking do you think the employers really are
in charge now, or I still thinkit's a candidate's market?
There's so many jobs out there.
Kristina (10:30):
Listen, let's be honest.
It is always the candidate'smarket, because if you are an
employer and you need to hirepeople, candidates always have
the power to say no.
They always have theopportunity to negotiate.
They always have another option.
Even if, I think all the wayback to 2008, when it was not
(10:53):
looking good out there, thepeople who wanted to find
another job had options.
I think even in 2012, wheneverything was coming back, they
still had options.
They have options.
They don't have to accept untilwe change hiring to reflect
(11:14):
what the WNBA draft that ishappening right this minute and
all of the employers get to putus in one room and they get to
just pick us off one by one.
It is a candidate's market.
Once we move to a draft stylehiring process, it is no longer
a candidate's market.
You just like cross yourfingers and hope the team that
(11:35):
you want to work with christina,you have just been drafted to
florida.
Jazmine (11:42):
What is your reaction?
Oh my god, you have to.
Oh, and it will be even better,like once you get so far up in
your career.
You now have to be the state HRperson, so you have been
drafted florida's hr go-toperson I would rather work at
(12:06):
the worst mcdonald's you've everbeen at.
Kristina (12:12):
Okay, the worst mcdonald's.
Whatever you're thinking of,multiply it by 50.
Do not draft me to florida.
What, what in the world thatI'm going to have nightmares?
Thank you, jasmine.
Thank you.
Warren (12:27):
Well, this sort of goes perfectly into something we were
discussing offline.
The WNBA draft is going onright now as we're speaking, and
how that would work ifeverybody's careers were chosen
by employers just lining you upand you get virtually no say in
(12:47):
what, where you go.
I know their agents are workingbusiness deals.
Hey, my client, if you, if youselect them, my client will take
a five-year deal versus seniordeal.
You know all that other.
You know jerry mcguire crapbehind the the scenes there.
But that would just be crazy.
And then we were also talking.
The nba.
(13:07):
Wmba drafts are lottery system,so the team's order is random.
Kristina (13:12):
But in, like the nfl, you go to that and the last
place team gets the number onepick and if you're that number
one recruit, you just gotscrewed you know what, though,
that is like the picture perfect, like that plays out so
perfectly because we've allworked with that one person who
(13:35):
like doesn't really pull theirweight in the office and they
just kind of do the bare minimumand then they get like promoted
or they get a raise and noone's adding more work to their
desk so that like mid-tierplayer that ends up getting
draft to like one of the bestteam where he's not gonna have
to do any work.
Like hell, maybe we're alreadyliving in a draft society.
Jazmine (13:56):
The recruiters are just the agents I was gonna say I
kind of feel like in in certainaspects of it.
This is it's not as bad, but itis a little bit like the drafts
, um, and not just WNBAs, it'salso like NFL, like with with
picking benefits and thesalaries like, or even with
(14:20):
salary of companies or statesand cities that say, oh, you
have to.
The range is from one cent totwo cents and then you got to be
drafted into that.
You're just like oh can I?
Andrew Quilpa (14:35):
just retire.
Warren (14:38):
Man we have lost our way , somebody's got to be the HR
director of Chipotle.
Kristina (14:43):
You know what I would take that over Florida?
I was going to say I don't feellike that would be.
Warren (14:47):
you know it has its ups and downs, but no, they're just
always in the news for doingsomething extremely stupid.
Oh, that's true.
Kristina (14:57):
But I can handle that.
I can fix extremely stupid Icannot fix Florida.
I cannot fix Florida, I cannotfix Florida, I cannot fix
Florida.
So you know, I think that it'salways funny whenever employers
like feel like they start doinglike you said, jasmine.
It's an employer's market.
Now we get to kind of dowhatever we want in this deal
(15:17):
and they'd expect you a veryqualified, qualified, sought
after person, to make a decisionby 5 pm.
When you went through I don'tknow 30 rounds of interviews, it
took you 30 days to look at thefirst application you got.
Or you know, sometimes I get anew client and it's like we've
(15:40):
had this job posted for threemonths but no one's had time to
go through the applications tosee who we should interview.
And I'm like those people whoapplied three months ago are
like they're gone.
They're giving you shittyreviews on Google right now.
They're not interested incoming to work for you anymore.
Like you haven't said a word tothem.
You take your time on doingeverything possible.
(16:01):
Or I had a scenario last year.
I had a very, very difficult,highly technical position to
fill.
I'm super proud of myself.
I found a really good candidate, everything's going well, he's
enjoying it, them, they'reenjoying him, this is like
perfect.
(16:21):
And so they get into salarynegotiations and I back out
because I don't care, you guyswork it out and they come up
with a really, really good offerfor him, so like a good enough
offer that he probably wouldhave said yes by 5 pm that day,
you know.
I mean he couldn't turn it down.
And then he goes to work andthen suddenly they have an issue
(16:45):
that they can't resolve and ithas nothing to do with him, it
has to do with their customers.
And so they're like oh, we gotto lay this person off, so
specialized, there's nowhereelse in the organization for
this person to go.
And now I'm like we did all thatwork and you didn't think far
(17:07):
enough through to see this, butyou expect candidates to be okay
with whatever you put in frontof you, like not this particular
client, but all employers.
You want candidates to be okaywith whatever you put in front
of them, but then don't turnaround and give them the same
respect when it's time to havethe reverse conversation.
(17:28):
And it makes no sense to me.
Either you want to be thatpersonalized organization where
we're a family or whateverpeople say, or you don't, and
it's okay if you don't.
I prefer if you don't, but thatmeans you have to take that
into consideration through theentire process, right?
You can't pretend you are andthen, when you have to make a
difficult decision, just kicksomeone to the curb with no
(17:51):
second thought.
Jazmine (17:52):
That's why I have a really big issue with what
leadership expects not only outof candidates that they're
looking to have in or join thecompany, but also of their
employees that they currentlyhave right now.
And one issue that this mightbe going off on a tangent in a
different direction, but is whenyou're showing more respect and
(18:16):
more appreciation to the peoplethat you're recruiting versus
the people that you already haveon staff and thinking about
those employees.
But leadership, from what I haveseen, has taken a really big
downfall in saying oh well, youknow, we're the leaders, we know
everything, we know whatorganizations are doing.
(18:38):
I'm talking to other CEOs soclearly I know what other
companies are doing.
Kristina (18:49):
I talked to other CEOs who also don't know the details
of what's happening at theday-to-day level.
Jazmine (18:55):
I like done and that so .
Kristina (18:57):
I was.
Jazmine (18:57):
I was like sitting out literally getting my hair done
today and I was listening to mystylist talk to some other
ladies about.
You know, they have an employeethat they're not really sure if
the employee is getting likethey.
They assign the employee a taskand in their mind they gave the
employee what that employeeshould talk about doing a cold
(19:19):
call.
You know, this is what I wantyou to talk about.
But then you don't go andactually train that person and
so when that person says, hey, Idon't really know what I should
say or how should I address ifthey come to me with this, but
you're expecting them to justpick it up and understand it.
You're expecting candidates tojust say, hey, I'm gonna go out
and research and do all of thethings that the recruiter or the
(19:41):
hiring manager or whoever it isshould be talking and telling
me about.
You're expecting a candidate todo that and then also say, hey,
why do I have to keep followingup with you?
You claim you want me, but youhaven't.
We've had this phone screen butthen you haven't reached back
out.
Like what are we going to dohere?
Warren (20:09):
Well, ghosting is real.
Everybody's talking about it.
I mean, I hate these terms, butghosting is a real, legitimate
term that has to be talked about.
I think because and I'mprobably guilty of it too my
goal, if I don't ever talk toyou and I just screen your
resume and I don't not going togo forward with you, click the
button and you get an email, butafter we've talked, I'm going
to at least try to leave you amessage, say hey, I'm sorry
(20:30):
we're, we're going to go anotherdirection, or this isn't going
to work for us, or whatever itis Something in person.
I'm not going to bend overbackwards and try and leave you
five messages until I get you,but I'm going to try and make it
as personal as I can Because,honestly, you had that candidate
in your hand.
There was some interest on bothends.
(20:51):
At some point maybe next month,maybe next year, there's going
to be another opportunity thatthat person would be the perfect
fit for.
You can't go burning therecruiters and the hiring
managers, can't go burningbridges with these candidates,
because in smaller areas, likewhere I'm at, people are going
to know quickly oh, don't evenapply there, they're crap.
Jazmine (21:14):
And you know what else too.
It's not just phone screens.
Let me say this to allrecruitings, hiring manager,
recruiters, hiring managers,whoever you want to be if you
have a candidate complete a takehome assignment and that
(21:34):
candidate does that assignment,because a lot of the times, like
Tommy, you send me an email andsay, oh, I need you to do this,
no, we can talk about it, butI'm not going to do this
assignment.
But if you have someonecomplete assignments and then
you do not follow up with them,burn down the building.
(21:56):
Burn down the building, youknow those assignments cannot be
trusted.
Kristina (22:06):
They cannot be trusted .
I saw a tweet it's been acouple of months ago now and
somebody you know there's somesmart influencers, there's some
influencers that are justclickbait and there's some
influencers who, I think,actually believe this stuff that
comes out of their mouth.
And this woman in a leadershiprole somewhere tweeted out
(22:28):
something about an interviewhack and it's basically like
giving candidates the homeworkof like whatever their problem
is right now, have four or fivetop candidates complete it and
then you don't have to hireanybody.
And I was like, oh my, my god,that is a horrible idea.
Jazmine (22:45):
that is so bad, that is not a good way that it
definitely falls under the shadyrecruiting that oh yeah talking
about and just to just to likebefore we go on, do not burn
down these people building,because I don't have no
insurance money to give you.
Kristina (23:04):
So it was a gut reaction and I gave all my money
.
I gave all my money to the IRStoday, so I can't help you
either.
Warren (23:12):
Oh yes.
Kristina (23:13):
I cannot help you either.
Warren (23:15):
Actually, I've heard that a lot of places.
If you give work assignments ortrial assignments to people,
that's compensable, they shouldbe paying you, even if it's for
that work.
Especially, you know, if you'redoing something shady, like
that person on Twitter hey,let's just give everybody a sign
.
Then we get five choicesoptions.
Hey, let's let them work theirage.
(23:37):
Give them your hardest problemand see who solves it, and don't
hire.
Jazmine (23:41):
And then you're upset that that candidates have these
experience like we.
We get it.
We know our recruiters, ouremployers are not the same.
But when a candidate is goingthrough this experience and you
know they're having they're inthis job market and this job
market.
It's not easy.
This job market and this jobmarket is not easy.
(24:02):
It's.
It's hard to continue to getno's when you know you are a
valuable person who brings a lot, who can bring a lot to an
organization.
So it's still hard to get theno's.
But I think we need to be like,just have more grace with
candidates, not saying thatcandidates need to be able to
walk over people or whateverrecruiters are fearing, but like
, acknowledge the job market andwhat it is okay, time out.
Kristina (24:27):
Don't blame it all on the recruiters because well,
it's not just recruiters.
No, they're not hiring mebecause they're behind that
recruiter telling them like thisis, this is, this is and we
don't have as much pull as wewould like to think we do all
the time.
Jazmine (24:42):
No, I completely agree with that and I also think of
that in the hr sense, like a lotof people are, like I can't
believe hr did this, hr did that.
Hey, hey, sweets did you knowthat hr is an employee, that hr
has somebody they also have toreport to, and a lot of times hr
professionals have given theceo or leadership or managers a
different you know outcome andsay, hey, you should actually do
this, have to report too, and alot of times hr professionals
have given the ceo or leadershipor managers a different you
(25:02):
know outcome and say, hey, youshould actually do this and
they're like, but we're going todo this instead and you're
going to have to go with that sonow you're well within their
rights to do right, but alsolike let's be honest, like eight
times out of ten, you guysdidn't even tell us what was
going on until it was done.
Warren (25:23):
Anyway, that's a different episode.
The hiring managers you startrecruiting and you get some
candidates lined up and then onpaper, that's not what we're
looking for at all, and likewhat?
Kristina (25:36):
That's why an intake meeting.
Recruiters should be havingintake meetings with hiring
managers.
Every single time you get a joborder, I don't care how many
times you've worked that joborder you have an intake call
with that hiring manager becauseotherwise you will end up
exactly where we're interested.
You're going to have a perfectfit on paper that matches what
you guys put down on paperinternally and they're going to
(25:57):
be like not even close, put downon paper internally and they're
going to be like not even close.
Jazmine (26:02):
But then you have to think about those, those hiring
managers or those in leadershipwho are, like you know what we
need.
I don't have time to have thisintake meeting with you to tell
you what need, what is needed inthis position.
Like you read the jobdescription, just like I did,
from whatever it came from.
Kristina (26:22):
So you know, in my very first big girl staffing job
, I was really good at what Idid.
I was good and I alwaysrequired the intake process
right, because I can't serve youas a client if you don't give
me more information.
(26:42):
And we had like 22 offices atthat company that I worked for
at the time, all spread acrossthe Southeast, and I was like
outbilling everyone and everyoneelse was like but she turns
work away.
We don't understand, like theytruly didn't get it.
And I'm like well, becauseyou've got your team working on
jobs that you haven't reallytruly qualified because you
didn't get it.
And I'm like, well, becauseyou've got your team working on
jobs that you haven't reallytruly qualified because you
(27:02):
didn't have an intake call.
So you have them wasting theirtime and wasting candidates time
.
And I don't do that.
I go after work that is realthat they can really have a
conversation about, and I drugthat with me to the corporate
world.
So when I had multiple hiringmanagers that I was supposed to
serve as the recruiter of theorganization, I would just be
(27:23):
like if you can't sit down andanswer these questions, I cannot
work on your job.
I'm going to put it to the side.
You let me know when you havetime, because otherwise you're
going to get what I think youshould have, and you're probably
not going to be happy with that, because I have a totally
different perspective than youdo and I don't think enough
(27:45):
recruiters push back and I don'tthink enough recruiters feel
comfortable pushing back on thatLike that is a legitimate step
in the hiring process thatshould be required everywhere.
So that is something that's notlike a preference, that's not
like a I hope I have this in mynext job.
That is something that isrequired for you to be able to
(28:05):
go and execute your job wellthat knows short-term disability
rights, I guess, and you'relike no, I need a systems
technical developer.
Jazmine (28:24):
I didn't know what that means.
Kristina (28:28):
I'm not going to lie.
I was told to my brother Ididn't know where you're going
with that.
I was like what, what anacronym for whatever she's about
to tell us.
Jazmine (28:38):
Well, I figured this is Jada.
We needed to have a little fun.
Vince McMahon.
Warren (28:44):
Oh gosh.
Kristina (28:46):
I don't know.
Well, okay, so what about this,though?
Because I literally just cameoff of this, I don't know, a
week ago or so, I am going totell y'all something honestly
the worst part of my job isrejecting candidates, and I know
that feels like an answer arecruiter would give you, but it
sucks, and especially like withmy husband going through a job
(29:07):
search right now and like seeinghim have to navigate the
rejection.
Jasmine's recent experiencelike it's so much more personal
to me than it ever has been,even though I've always taken
that pretty seriously.
But I had a position I was justworking.
Hopefully it'll be closed soon.
We've got some good candidatesthat we've narrowed it down to.
320 people applied, like in aweek, to this job, and so, like
(29:32):
at first pass through, you knowwhen they say stuff like oh,
recruiters spend like sixseconds on your resume.
This is why because that firstpass today, we're down.
320 candidates.
I'm looking for the top thingsthat are required for that job,
right, so typically I'm just a.
I'm a team of one, right, I'm ateam of one person.
So typically and I have like 20applicants I can get a little
(29:53):
bit personal when I send you arejection email and I can say,
hey, we're looking for this andwe didn't see this on your
resume.
So you know we're going to goout with a different candidate.
But you know, stay in touch orwhatever the right message is.
It's different for each client.
But when I have 320 of those todo, you kind of get like a
standard rejection email and Ihate it and it and it and it
(30:15):
bugs me.
But I think sometimes you know,candidates don't know what I'm
doing on the inside and they'rejust seeing what they get.
And sometimes we're upset forthe wrong reasons, because if it
says minimum qualifications orwhatever these three things are,
and you know you don't havethose three things, can you
(30:36):
really be upset with me forgiving you a generic rejection
email?
I don't know.
What do you guys think?
Warren (30:42):
No, absolutely not.
At least you're gettingsomething.
I.
I, I feel you wanting to give apersonalized touch, especially
in your, your situation, yourrecruiting party company of one,
and you know you don't want toburn those bridges with his
clients.
But if you know, I've got 25plus years in HR, I'm not going
(31:02):
to apply for some, I don't knowaccounting job somewhere and
expect to get an interview.
I don't hit the minimumqualifications and and but I, I
also do think too many peoplethink that they have to hit each
one of the bullet points.
Many people think that theyhave to hit each one of the
(31:23):
bullet points.
Hey, there's 10 bullet points.
I hit five.
I'm applying, baby, you know,let's see what it is.
Uh versus oh.
You know, I've got nine ofthese, but I don't have the 10th
one, so I'm not gonna apply.
I.
I see people talking about thatall the time, like you know,
especially as easy it is toapply online.
Jazmine (31:38):
At most places nowadays it's indeed one click apply, oh
my god, wait a minute now,warren, wait a minute now now
the ones who have to applyonline.
Warren (31:50):
Upload your resume.
Kristina (31:51):
Then type your whole resume in again, those 1990s
atrs systems, atrs reading thoselike if, if companies still
have those, is anyone completingthem?
Are they all just giving up?
Jazmine (32:01):
I will say so I will say the issue that I found the
most is like you would uploadthe resume and they it would put
the information in, but itdoesn't put it correctly all the
time.
So those I would be more willingto you know correct.
(32:23):
But there was one that I wouldupload the resume and like
nothing would come over and itwould then have to.
You then have to go through andlist every single thing and I
was just like you know what thisain't for me, yeah, but so for
(32:44):
me, what I found is no, I don'tif it's you know something big
when I apply to something, if wehave never spoken, then sending
me a generic email stating thatyou're going with another
candidate, okay, cool.
Once we hit a phone screen, I'mstill fine with you sending me
an email.
I like it.
I would like it to bepersonalized to me, but I am
(33:06):
still fine with just a phonescreen once.
Once we get more than a phonescreen, maybe a phone call, but
I'm not really a phone callperson, especially if you're
about to reject me for something.
So that's why it's a littledifferent for me.
That is fine if you would stillsend me an email, or maybe you
know.
Tell me, hey, I'm about toreject you, so I can then just
send you the voicemail.
But no, I and hey.
Warren (33:27):
Jasmine, can I give you a call to reject you real quick?
Yep.
Jazmine (33:30):
I'm gonna hang up, call me right back and I'm gonna
reject it in there.
So it's just if that works out.
But I think that is the issuewith some candidates.
They are expecting you to sendthem exact details on why they
weren't selected and it's justlike you have like nothing and
(33:53):
this isn't one of those.
Oh, anyone can learn this typeof job.
This is no.
I need this skill and you donot have this skill, so okay.
Kristina (34:02):
But so we have covered in this conversation a lot and
we have been around the world,like we always do in our
conversations, but we've coveredso many different variables
about how your application isreviewed, how job orders are
taken, how jobs are posted, howyou can apply.
So that's what job seekers areup against is.
(34:24):
We've just shared so manydifferent opinions about the
same process and it's notconsistent across the board
everywhere.
So, like my heart goes out topeople because I'm like,
especially when I see someonewho has zero like qualifications
or maybe one qualification fromthe job, I just immediately go
like okay, this person hasprobably been searching for a
job for a while now and they'rejust like desperate and they're
(34:45):
just applying to everything.
And I just wish I had the timeto have a one-on-one call with
all of these people and say, hey, how can I help you?
Because this is not the job,this isn't the one.
But tell me what's going on.
Of course, again, one personshop.
I do not have that kind of time.
Even if I had a team of people,I probably wouldn't have that
kind of time.
But it just sucks when youthink of, like you know, you've
(35:07):
got recruiters out here andmaybe, maybe it wasn't a shady
recruiter, maybe it was a hiringmanager giving that recruiter a
lot of pressure to get thiswrapped up, for whatever reason.
Like Jasmine's example earlier,they wait until the last minute
.
They've got to get this lockedup or they can't proceed with,
like whatever new business ideaor proposal or whatever.
(35:28):
But also like I I stillencounter, like some old school
hiring managers who think thatrecruiters should be doing that
activity to people to get themto say yes to a job offer or
like I see it in staffing,sometimes, when I'm like you
know, the hiring manager will belike you need to let your
candidates know that if theyturn this down like they're
making you look bad, no, no, no,no, no.
(35:51):
Really, if they turn this downafter they interview with you,
that's on you, buddy, that's noton me.
They're not making me look bad.
They're making an informeddecision for themselves.
But there's all this.
The point is, there's all thisconflicting information and
there's so many people who havetheir hands in the process and a
lot of times it's just a badhiring process, like what the
(36:13):
hell are candidates supposed todo?
Jazmine (36:16):
it's tough, it's tough I don't know what candidates are
supposed to do like seriouslybeing in this, and I am very,
very grateful and blessed that Iwas able to find a position in
the time frame that I have,because I see, you know, I get
on LinkedIn every single day andpeople are out there and
they're just it's been sixmonths since my layoff, it's
(36:38):
been over a year since my layoff, and it's like you go and
sometimes I really like I willgo and look at what they have
and I'm like, wow, of course Ihave the stuff, like I don't
know what this person is doing,but from what I can see on their
background, it's like, you know, they have some really good
experience.
I saw, right before we got onthis conversation, I actually
saw someone tweet and they had apicture up of a LinkedIn
(37:00):
profile.
And actually saw someone tweetand they had a picture up of a
LinkedIn profile and it was likethis person stayed here for
like six months.
Another person stayed here forwell, they, the same person,
stayed at another company fornine months and they were the
person that posted.
It was like do do candidatesthink that this job hopping is,
you know, good for for them?
And I'm like, well, first ofall, one position says it was a
(37:21):
contract.
So if that was a six-monthcontract, then they knew what
they were going to complete yeah, yeah.
And then the other one.
Again we're in.
We are in an area in which youdon't know that that person
decided to leave that job afternine months.
That person could have had areally great, enjoyable
experience and got laid off dueto a number of reasons, or had a
(37:45):
crappy manager and the manageris a hater and was like you know
what we got to find a way toget you up out of here.
Like y'all people you know, andnot just recruiters, but like
these LinkedIn influencers andeverything are just putting so
much on what people have on apiece of paper which, yes, yes,
there's somewhere to start, butyou really don't know what a
person is going through Just bylooking at their resume.
(38:07):
You don't know their background, you don't know the the issues
that they've had at workplacesthat's due to no fault of what
they are trying to do as acandidate or as an employee.
Like, I think we're justputting so much expectations on
on employees or candidates andthen, as companies, we are not
(38:27):
putting ourself or holdingourselves to those same
standards just because we make acertain amount of money.
It's just like, oh well, we cando what we please.
And I think that is where trulythe big issue of you know, work
is.
But you know, like I, saidearlier I'm on a leadership kick
, so we'll see understandably soI I think you, you have the the
(38:57):
problem.
Warren (38:58):
You, for years we'd shit on millennials because they
were the first job hopping group, and then after that, now we're
shitting on Gen Z.
They're the same way.
But now you know, themillennials are in their 30s and
40s, they've settled down andthey're you know, they're here
and they're kicking ass.
Jazmine (39:18):
Well, first of all, Warren, we were always doing
that.
So I mean hello, yeah, yeah,yeah, kicking ass and well first
of all, we were always doingthat, so I mean hello yes, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Warren (39:27):
As an old xer, I just remember all these conversations
about the, the kids coming outtoday and now I'm hearing it to
go.
You know soon, you know they'regoing back that the next group
of kids they're the alphas and Ithink they're entering the job
force in like five years orsomething like that like yeah,
and so this is.
Kristina (39:45):
This is also I mean, this is a classic hiring mistake
, and I believe this is aclassic hiring mistake that
enables the shitty behavior thatwe see sometimes from
recruiters or hiring managers isthat employers want to hire
what they want to hire.
You have got to change with thelabor market.
(40:07):
You can't just will somethinginto existence as an employer.
So for these Gen Z folks,specifically for Gen Z, I just
had this conversation today withsomeone who wanted to know
where they fell in the marketwith return to work, stuff, okay
(40:29):
.
And so I'm talking to them andI'm like, okay, but we're going
to see the ramifications forthis for years to come, because
it's not just, oh, those of usmillennials and up who were
already in the workforce andwent home for a couple of years.
That was sparked by COVID.
It's also the fact that we havecollege students who finished
college remotely when theystarted in person.
We have high school studentswho finished high school
(40:51):
remotely when they started outin person, and so that is their
world.
Now they expect hybrid to be anoption for almost anything that
they do, because that's whatthey've experienced and it was
successful for most people and Iknow some people are outliers
and they didn't have a good timeand they want to be in the
(41:12):
office or they want to be, youknow, in person or whatever, but
most people are to the pointwhere they're going to expect
hybrid.
So, yeah, maybe you can forceall your millennials and up back
into the office, because weknow a different time in the
workplace.
These kids are coming in withdifferent expectations.
These kids are coming in withdifferent skill sets, different
(41:34):
mindsets, different work ethics,and you can't just keep hiring
these people and then firingthem because they're not doing
exactly what you wanted them todo.
You have got to change with thelabor market and that doesn't
mean, like Jasmine said earlier,that candidates get to come in
and then get to walk all over us.
It means that maybe you have todo more training than you had
to do in the last five years.
(41:54):
Maybe you have to take moreentry-level people.
Maybe you have to develop aninternal labor pool for a
specific skill set that you'renot seeing in the job market
anymore.
Maybe you have to get creativein a lot of different ways to
make sure that you're shiftingto whatever the available talent
is.
Warren (42:12):
Yep.
Kristina (42:13):
Otherwise, you're just going to be making poor
decisions.
Warren (42:17):
Exactly, exactly.
Well, I was just going to addone personal, the only shitty
recruiting experience I ever hadas a candidate.
It was my first job that I tookout of college.
I went to work as a retailmanager, which I am not well
suited for that at all.
But here's why, and I knew that.
(42:38):
I knew I'm not a customerservice, people pleasing type
person.
I knew that.
But the line the recruiter gaveme was the pathway to the whole
corporation starts in the store.
And so I got recruited asassistant store manager.
That's a great line, yeah, andthat's all it was, was a line.
(42:59):
I was assistant manager on mysecond year review, the district
manager sat down with me and hesaid well, you're on the short
list for getting your own store.
And dah, dah, dah I'm talkingto these future plans.
It's great, but that's not whatI want to do.
I want to.
You know my degree's in HR, Iwant to get into HR.
And the recruiter told me thatyou know the pathway.
The whole corporation starts inthe store.
(43:24):
He says, says I've been with thecompany 30 some years I've
never seen someone go from thestore to corporate and and that
was I my resume hit the marketlike the next morning and I was
not there much longer after thatyeah, that's interesting.
Jazmine (43:35):
so I didn't have that experience of me, of them
telling me that I would go tocorporate.
But for a my last year or twowith Chuck E Cheese I really,
really wanted to become an HRperson at Chuck E Cheese.
Kristina (43:55):
Oh, Whatever, I never really pursued it.
Jazmine (44:01):
No, I was so serious I thought so checker cheese
corporate is they were I don'tknow if they still are was in
texas and I was like, oh my god,that would be like amazing, I'm
gonna move out to texas, I'llbe an hr person for check it out
, like I was.
I was ready and willing and Inever pursued it.
Andrew Quilpa (44:23):
But that's actually a good line Warren.
Jazmine (44:25):
I mean I feel like more companies are.
They might have that.
Kristina (44:30):
You might hear that some more who can I, who can I
work that in for with my currentclient base?
I don't know it's a good line I?
I got a little nervous, jasmine.
I thought you were about totalk about your last recruiting
experience and I was like whatare you about to say?
How would you rate yourrecruiter on a scale of one to
(44:50):
10?
10 being the best?
Jazmine (44:53):
Oh, I can't say what I was about to say, but the
recruiter was a 10.
I can tell you that much.
Warren (44:59):
You're putting those.
Jazmine (45:06):
Taylor.
Kristina (45:07):
Swift parts down.
Jazmine (45:11):
I don't know the kids need something different now.
Kristina (45:13):
Okay.
Andrew Quilpa (45:16):
All right?
Well, I don't know my brain.
Kristina (45:20):
it's hard for my brain .
Jazmine (45:21):
The recruiter thought you were a 10, well, I don't
know.
My brain it's hard for my brain.
Kristina (45:23):
The recruiter thought you were 10, too, but I'm sure I
gave you a line.
But the difference is, whateverline I gave you, I believed it.
I didn't make something up, Ibelieved it.
Warren (45:33):
Wow, we've gone so long today.
This is a good episode.
I've had a lot of fun and we'vegot to get you all back more
often.
It's been over a year.
I think this is the last timewe we had y'all on, and it's
just so much fun.
Kristina (45:51):
So I think it's been over a year since we've recorded
anything.
Warren (45:54):
You have the open door invitation.
Hey Warren, I want to rantabout whatever it is.
You've got it.
You've got an audience righthere.
All my dozens of listeners,Dozens of listeners.
Kristina (46:06):
We love your dozens of listeners.
We love them yeah.
Warren (46:11):
We're no longer ranked in some of these countries.
I haven't looked at the rankslately.
We haven't had a review in awhile, so if you enjoyed this
episode, give us a review If youdidn't enjoy it, don't review
that episode, thank you.
Kristina (46:20):
No, enjoyed this episode.
Give us a review.
So if you didn't enjoy it,don't review that episode, thank
you no, I'll read a one-starreview.
Warren (46:25):
The only one-star review we've ever gotten didn't have
any narrative to it.
We've gotten all our reviewsare five stars except for one.
It's like our apple rating islike 4.8 or something like that
and the person didn't have thenerve to to tell us I would have
read it.
I would have had some fun withit.
But anyway, that's probably whythey didn't have the nerve to
tell us why I would have read it.
I would have had some fun withit.
Kristina (46:41):
But anyway, that's probably why they didn't write
it.
Warren (46:46):
Well, I think we'll go ahead and land this plane for
right now.
Thank you so much for beingwith us and pinch hitting.
This has been so much fun, andlet's see best practice tonight.
Don't be a shitty recruiter.
That sums it up.
And don't be a shitty recruiter.
That sums it up.
And don't be a shitty candidate.
Just don't be shitty.
Don't be shitty.
(47:07):
That works too.
The intro and outro music isthe underscore, orchestra double
the double and our voice artistis Andrew Colpa.
Want to thank both of them, but, as always, I'm Warren.
Jazmine (47:19):
I'm Jasmine, I'm Christina and we're here helping
you survive HR one.
What the fuck moment both ofthem.
Warren (47:22):
But, as always, I'm Warren, I'm Jasmine, I'm
Christina and we're here helpingyou survive HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
Had you actually read the email, you would know
that the podcast you are aboutto listen to could contain
explicit language and offensivecontent.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Warren (00:47):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by three HR
professionals who want to helpyou get through the workday by
saying everything you'rethinking, but say it out loud.
I'm Warren.
Jazmine (00:59):
I'm Jasmine.
I'm Christina.
Warren (01:01):
All right, we got it down.
Third time, fourth time.
What is this fifth?
Jazmine (01:06):
time a charm.
Warren (01:07):
Tommy pressed the record button.
Jazmine (01:09):
I was like wait, we didn't talk about who was saying
it first, who?
Warren (01:13):
goes first, but it worked.
Improv is good, so anyhow.
So it's been a while sincey'all been online with us or
been on there with us.
So, yeah, I'm glad to get y'allbeen online with us.
I've been on on there with us,so, yeah, I'm glad to get y'all
back.
I'm glad you're willing topinch hit for cc as she is out,
but we're going to have a seriesof pinch hitters while cc is
(01:34):
being with baby.
But before we get to our showtoday, I want to announce we
have yet another new patreonsupporter, michael.
So michael joins bill andhallie, the original jaded hr
rock star, as our patreonsupporter.
So thank you very much for yourcontribution.
You can be like them andsupport us on patreon, but if
you want to support the show,you can also leave us a review,
(01:56):
send us a note on a story, anote, something like that on
social media.
Let us know and we'll get youon here and talk about your
story.
So that is what I want to coverfor that today.
But we got a cool topic todayand it's inspired by a
conversation I had with a friendshitty recruiting tactics and I
really thought that we would bebeyond shitty recruiting
(02:20):
tactics, especially in thiseconomy, but it appears not, and
we were talking on the phone.
I think both of you have someexperience with shitty
recruiting tactics in thiseconomy, but I don't know.
So I'll go ahead and dive inwith my friend's story.
They work at a position at ITand they got a call from a
(02:44):
recruiteriter and they're happyin their job.
They weren't really looking tolook there they don't know where
the resume got found oranything like that but they
engaged, said okay, let's, let'sjust see where this goes.
And they had their phoneinterview with the inner
recruiter first round phoneinterview with the company and
then a second round in personwith the company.
And then a few days later theygot called with an offer and you
(03:07):
think, oh, it sounds likeeverything's working the way
it's supposed to.
No, they told me he had tillfive o'clock that day to accept
or decline their offer becausethey had like five other
well-qualified candidates but hewas their number one pick and
they wanted to have him.
And he's just said, no, I'm notplaying that game, that's not
for me, I'm not going to make abig decision in a few hours like
(03:30):
that.
So he just told him flat out no, and about a week later he got
another call from him and saidhey, we'd like to see if you're
still interested in position.
He said, no, I'm not.
Kristina (03:42):
When I said no, I meant no, no.
Warren (03:45):
No means no.
Kristina (03:48):
So they called him back after.
He was like listen, this is notfor me.
And they said we have a newoffer for you, even though we
said they had to get through theother.
Jazmine (04:00):
What four candidates?
Four or five?
Warren (04:02):
candidates To all tell no.
Jazmine (04:04):
So I mean, it took them a minute.
Then they popped back in andsaid hey, what do you think?
Kristina (04:10):
Do you think five other people told them no, or do
you think there was no otherpeople?
Jazmine (04:14):
There were no other people.
Warren (04:17):
In this economy it's searching for y'all.
Both have very good experiencein recruiting, more recent than
my experience in recruiting.
Both have very good experiencein recruiting, more recent than
my experience in recruiting, andto have one good candidate,
much less five.
I mean, if I had the ability, Iwould hire five people if I
found them, and just put it upon operations.
Hey, your turn.
Jazmine (04:42):
And it's not to say that they didn't find great
candidates that could havefilled that role.
But to me, when you arepressuring someone, that
pressure is because, yeah, wemight have some other candidates
but we really don't want to gowith them.
We really would like to go withyou, or this is a quick
turnaround.
Christina, you know ingovernment, you know this is a
quick turnaround.
We have to get this signed offtoday or else we can't be it.
(05:04):
So it's not to say that thereweren't other people, but I mean
, there's a, there's a goodchance that no, it was.
It was just, especially withhow quick the phone interview to
the, to the in-person or othervirtual interviews that they
were having.
That means they had to also dothat with.
(05:24):
You know, at least those fiveother candidates too.
It's just questionable to me.
Warren (05:29):
I didn't think about it that way, but yeah, you're on to
something there.
Why?
Jazmine (05:35):
are you looking like?
Warren (05:35):
that.
Kristina (05:39):
Okay, I want to back up for just a second.
As a recruiter, I hate thisstory because it really it's
evidence against what I telleveryone to do, because I think
that your friend started offgreat right.
He just was like let me, let merespond to this message and see
what comes of it, and I thinkthat that's great.
(06:02):
I think there's no harm in thatIf you are working and you get
a message from a recruiter I Ithink there's no harm in that if
you are working and you get amessage from a recruiter.
I don't think it's nice toignore recruiters.
I don't think it's nice to berude to recruiters and be like
get the hell out of here, whatare you messaging me for?
Because they're just trying todo their job.
But to then take thatopportunity where someone did
(06:23):
entertain your message and thentry to strong on them into
making a very quick decisionwhen it sounds like you weren't
honest in the process, likethat's too much.
That is why people are moreinclined to just ignore our
messages or just to tell us likeyou're stupid, I hate you, I
don't want to work with you, sothat kills this whole.
Like I don't want to work withyou, so that that kills this
(06:45):
whole.
Like I don't know thatrecruiter, I have no idea who
they are, but I don't like you,whoever you are.
Warren (06:54):
That's exactly it.
Kristina (06:55):
You know, jasmine and I talk about this all the time
Changing jobs is a big decisionfor someone to make, and so if,
especially if, I recruitedsomeone who is happily employed,
I will go to great length totry to talk them out of
accepting an offer, to make surethat they are truly interested
in this opportunity.
So there is no, I need adecision from you by morning.
(07:19):
There's no, I don't like the 24hour thing.
You got to give people ampletime to like really think
through.
What are their questions?
What does this process looklike?
How does this impact them, howdoes it impact their family, how
does it impact their dailyroutine and everything?
There's so much to thinkthrough.
It's such a big decision.
Jazmine (07:39):
And that was my thing with it too is like you have to.
It seems that in this situationit moved very fast.
And when you with it too islike you have to.
It seems that in this situationit moved very fast.
And when you're happy,sometimes you don't think about
the things that are there makingyou happy until you go to that
other position and you're like,oh, wait a minute.
You know we did talk aboutbenefits, but I had this at my
(08:03):
previous job benefits, but I hadthis at my previous job and you
said, as you know, thisrecruiter that was trying to get
me in you said this would beone thing.
And then it turns around andthat's not true.
So it's like how can you reallytruly get to know the things
that you need to know?
You, you can't know everythingabout a company.
To me, I don't believe you canknow everything about a company
(08:24):
before you accept their offerletter, but certain things that
you can know.
If you don't have the time todo that, right, there is the red
flag.
Warren (08:33):
And they're not giving you the time, even if I don't
know if he asked hey, I needmore time, but he just said once
they told me you have to tellme by 5 o'clock today.
Jazmine (08:42):
And he was like no, well, me by five o'clock today.
And he was like no, Well, letme make this simple Before we
get off the phone.
Warren (08:51):
I can go ahead and tell you no, yeah, but this economy I
would think you're going to.
You know, nurture yourcandidate and hold their hand
and caress them and send themnice little text messages.
I'm still thinking about youwhen you've got that nice
candidate that you want in therecruiting world.
You know that's what you haveto do these days.
(09:12):
Well, that was like two yearsago.
Jazmine (09:14):
Now the tide is turning where it's like, oh well, the
employee employers have theupper hand again, so we no
longer need to hold hands and wedon't need to reach out to
people and see hey, do you haveany questions?
Now it's just like you know,I'm giving you this information,
make a decision, and I don'tthink that's really what the
(09:36):
market looks like, but I dothink that's what people think.
That is what the market is now.
Is that, oh well, y'all hady'all two, three years of
working from home.
Y'all had y'all two, threeyears of getting like crazy,
sign on bonuses or salaries orall of that, but now it is time
for us to take back.
(09:57):
Y'all are going to come in thisoffice that I pay for, y'all
are going to hit the bareminimum of what, what we should
or have to pay, and y'all aregoing to be okay with it,
because now everyone needs a jobyeah, do you, but do you think
the employers are in charge nowhuh, what did you say?
Warren (10:20):
oh I I was asking do you think the employers really are
in charge now, or I still thinkit's a candidate's market?
There's so many jobs out there.
Kristina (10:30):
Listen, let's be honest.
It is always the candidate'smarket, because if you are an
employer and you need to hirepeople, candidates always have
the power to say no.
They always have theopportunity to negotiate.
They always have another option.
Even if, I think all the wayback to 2008, when it was not
(10:53):
looking good out there, thepeople who wanted to find
another job had options.
I think even in 2012, wheneverything was coming back, they
still had options.
They have options.
They don't have to accept untilwe change hiring to reflect
(11:14):
what the WNBA draft that ishappening right this minute and
all of the employers get to putus in one room and they get to
just pick us off one by one.
It is a candidate's market.
Once we move to a draft stylehiring process, it is no longer
a candidate's market.
You just like cross yourfingers and hope the team that
(11:35):
you want to work with christina,you have just been drafted to
florida.
Jazmine (11:42):
What is your reaction?
Oh my god, you have to.
Oh, and it will be even better,like once you get so far up in
your career.
You now have to be the state HRperson, so you have been
drafted florida's hr go-toperson I would rather work at
(12:06):
the worst mcdonald's you've everbeen at.
Kristina (12:12):
Okay, the worst mcdonald's.
Whatever you're thinking of,multiply it by 50.
Do not draft me to florida.
What, what in the world thatI'm going to have nightmares?
Thank you, jasmine.
Thank you.
Warren (12:27):
Well, this sort of goes perfectly into something we were
discussing offline.
The WNBA draft is going onright now as we're speaking, and
how that would work ifeverybody's careers were chosen
by employers just lining you upand you get virtually no say in
(12:47):
what, where you go.
I know their agents are workingbusiness deals.
Hey, my client, if you, if youselect them, my client will take
a five-year deal versus seniordeal.
You know all that other.
You know jerry mcguire crapbehind the the scenes there.
But that would just be crazy.
And then we were also talking.
The nba.
(13:07):
Wmba drafts are lottery system,so the team's order is random.
Kristina (13:12):
But in, like the nfl, you go to that and the last
place team gets the number onepick and if you're that number
one recruit, you just gotscrewed you know what, though,
that is like the picture perfect, like that plays out so
perfectly because we've allworked with that one person who
(13:35):
like doesn't really pull theirweight in the office and they
just kind of do the bare minimumand then they get like promoted
or they get a raise and noone's adding more work to their
desk so that like mid-tierplayer that ends up getting
draft to like one of the bestteam where he's not gonna have
to do any work.
Like hell, maybe we're alreadyliving in a draft society.
Jazmine (13:56):
The recruiters are just the agents I was gonna say I
kind of feel like in in certainaspects of it.
This is it's not as bad, but itis a little bit like the drafts
, um, and not just WNBAs, it'salso like NFL, like with with
picking benefits and thesalaries like, or even with
(14:20):
salary of companies or statesand cities that say, oh, you
have to.
The range is from one cent totwo cents and then you got to be
drafted into that.
You're just like oh can I?
Andrew Quilpa (14:35):
just retire.
Warren (14:38):
Man we have lost our way , somebody's got to be the HR
director of Chipotle.
Kristina (14:43):
You know what I would take that over Florida?
I was going to say I don't feellike that would be.
Warren (14:47):
you know it has its ups and downs, but no, they're just
always in the news for doingsomething extremely stupid.
Oh, that's true.
Kristina (14:57):
But I can handle that.
I can fix extremely stupid Icannot fix Florida.
I cannot fix Florida, I cannotfix Florida, I cannot fix
Florida.
So you know, I think that it'salways funny whenever employers
like feel like they start doinglike you said, jasmine.
It's an employer's market.
Now we get to kind of dowhatever we want in this deal
(15:17):
and they'd expect you a veryqualified, qualified, sought
after person, to make a decisionby 5 pm.
When you went through I don'tknow 30 rounds of interviews, it
took you 30 days to look at thefirst application you got.
Or you know, sometimes I get anew client and it's like we've
(15:40):
had this job posted for threemonths but no one's had time to
go through the applications tosee who we should interview.
And I'm like those people whoapplied three months ago are
like they're gone.
They're giving you shittyreviews on Google right now.
They're not interested incoming to work for you anymore.
Like you haven't said a word tothem.
You take your time on doingeverything possible.
(16:01):
Or I had a scenario last year.
I had a very, very difficult,highly technical position to
fill.
I'm super proud of myself.
I found a really good candidate, everything's going well, he's
enjoying it, them, they'reenjoying him, this is like
perfect.
(16:21):
And so they get into salarynegotiations and I back out
because I don't care, you guyswork it out and they come up
with a really, really good offerfor him, so like a good enough
offer that he probably wouldhave said yes by 5 pm that day,
you know.
I mean he couldn't turn it down.
And then he goes to work andthen suddenly they have an issue
(16:45):
that they can't resolve and ithas nothing to do with him, it
has to do with their customers.
And so they're like oh, we gotto lay this person off, so
specialized, there's nowhereelse in the organization for
this person to go.
And now I'm like we did all thatwork and you didn't think far
(17:07):
enough through to see this, butyou expect candidates to be okay
with whatever you put in frontof you, like not this particular
client, but all employers.
You want candidates to be okaywith whatever you put in front
of them, but then don't turnaround and give them the same
respect when it's time to havethe reverse conversation.
(17:28):
And it makes no sense to me.
Either you want to be thatpersonalized organization where
we're a family or whateverpeople say, or you don't, and
it's okay if you don't.
I prefer if you don't, but thatmeans you have to take that
into consideration through theentire process, right?
You can't pretend you are andthen, when you have to make a
difficult decision, just kicksomeone to the curb with no
(17:51):
second thought.
Jazmine (17:52):
That's why I have a really big issue with what
leadership expects not only outof candidates that they're
looking to have in or join thecompany, but also of their
employees that they currentlyhave right now.
And one issue that this mightbe going off on a tangent in a
different direction, but is whenyou're showing more respect and
(18:16):
more appreciation to the peoplethat you're recruiting versus
the people that you already haveon staff and thinking about
those employees.
But leadership, from what I haveseen, has taken a really big
downfall in saying oh well, youknow, we're the leaders, we know
everything, we know whatorganizations are doing.
(18:38):
I'm talking to other CEOs soclearly I know what other
companies are doing.
Kristina (18:49):
I talked to other CEOs who also don't know the details
of what's happening at theday-to-day level.
Jazmine (18:55):
I like done and that so .
Kristina (18:57):
I was.
Jazmine (18:57):
I was like sitting out literally getting my hair done
today and I was listening to mystylist talk to some other
ladies about.
You know, they have an employeethat they're not really sure if
the employee is getting likethey.
They assign the employee a taskand in their mind they gave the
employee what that employeeshould talk about doing a cold
(19:19):
call.
You know, this is what I wantyou to talk about.
But then you don't go andactually train that person and
so when that person says, hey, Idon't really know what I should
say or how should I address ifthey come to me with this, but
you're expecting them to justpick it up and understand it.
You're expecting candidates tojust say, hey, I'm gonna go out
and research and do all of thethings that the recruiter or the
(19:41):
hiring manager or whoever it isshould be talking and telling
me about.
You're expecting a candidate todo that and then also say, hey,
why do I have to keep followingup with you?
You claim you want me, but youhaven't.
We've had this phone screen butthen you haven't reached back
out.
Like what are we going to dohere?
Warren (20:09):
Well, ghosting is real.
Everybody's talking about it.
I mean, I hate these terms, butghosting is a real, legitimate
term that has to be talked about.
I think because and I'mprobably guilty of it too my
goal, if I don't ever talk toyou and I just screen your
resume and I don't not going togo forward with you, click the
button and you get an email, butafter we've talked, I'm going
to at least try to leave you amessage, say hey, I'm sorry
(20:30):
we're, we're going to go anotherdirection, or this isn't going
to work for us, or whatever itis Something in person.
I'm not going to bend overbackwards and try and leave you
five messages until I get you,but I'm going to try and make it
as personal as I can Because,honestly, you had that candidate
in your hand.
There was some interest on bothends.
(20:51):
At some point maybe next month,maybe next year, there's going
to be another opportunity thatthat person would be the perfect
fit for.
You can't go burning therecruiters and the hiring
managers, can't go burningbridges with these candidates,
because in smaller areas, likewhere I'm at, people are going
to know quickly oh, don't evenapply there, they're crap.
Jazmine (21:14):
And you know what else too.
It's not just phone screens.
Let me say this to allrecruitings, hiring manager,
recruiters, hiring managers,whoever you want to be if you
have a candidate complete a takehome assignment and that
(21:34):
candidate does that assignment,because a lot of the times, like
Tommy, you send me an email andsay, oh, I need you to do this,
no, we can talk about it, butI'm not going to do this
assignment.
But if you have someonecomplete assignments and then
you do not follow up with them,burn down the building.
(21:56):
Burn down the building, youknow those assignments cannot be
trusted.
Kristina (22:06):
They cannot be trusted .
I saw a tweet it's been acouple of months ago now and
somebody you know there's somesmart influencers, there's some
influencers that are justclickbait and there's some
influencers who, I think,actually believe this stuff that
comes out of their mouth.
And this woman in a leadershiprole somewhere tweeted out
(22:28):
something about an interviewhack and it's basically like
giving candidates the homeworkof like whatever their problem
is right now, have four or fivetop candidates complete it and
then you don't have to hireanybody.
And I was like, oh my, my god,that is a horrible idea.
Jazmine (22:45):
that is so bad, that is not a good way that it
definitely falls under the shadyrecruiting that oh yeah talking
about and just to just to likebefore we go on, do not burn
down these people building,because I don't have no
insurance money to give you.
Kristina (23:04):
So it was a gut reaction and I gave all my money
.
I gave all my money to the IRStoday, so I can't help you
either.
Warren (23:12):
Oh yes.
Kristina (23:13):
I cannot help you either.
Warren (23:15):
Actually, I've heard that a lot of places.
If you give work assignments ortrial assignments to people,
that's compensable, they shouldbe paying you, even if it's for
that work.
Especially, you know, if you'redoing something shady, like
that person on Twitter hey,let's just give everybody a sign
.
Then we get five choicesoptions.
Hey, let's let them work theirage.
(23:37):
Give them your hardest problemand see who solves it, and don't
hire.
Jazmine (23:41):
And then you're upset that that candidates have these
experience like we.
We get it.
We know our recruiters, ouremployers are not the same.
But when a candidate is goingthrough this experience and you
know they're having they're inthis job market and this job
market.
It's not easy.
This job market and this jobmarket is not easy.
(24:02):
It's.
It's hard to continue to getno's when you know you are a
valuable person who brings a lot, who can bring a lot to an
organization.
So it's still hard to get theno's.
But I think we need to be like,just have more grace with
candidates, not saying thatcandidates need to be able to
walk over people or whateverrecruiters are fearing, but like
, acknowledge the job market andwhat it is okay, time out.
Kristina (24:27):
Don't blame it all on the recruiters because well,
it's not just recruiters.
No, they're not hiring mebecause they're behind that
recruiter telling them like thisis, this is, this is and we
don't have as much pull as wewould like to think we do all
the time.
Jazmine (24:42):
No, I completely agree with that and I also think of
that in the hr sense, like a lotof people are, like I can't
believe hr did this, hr did that.
Hey, hey, sweets did you knowthat hr is an employee, that hr
has somebody they also have toreport to, and a lot of times hr
professionals have given theceo or leadership or managers a
different you know outcome andsay, hey, you should actually do
this, have to report too, and alot of times hr professionals
have given the ceo or leadershipor managers a different you
(25:02):
know outcome and say, hey, youshould actually do this and
they're like, but we're going todo this instead and you're
going to have to go with that sonow you're well within their
rights to do right, but alsolike let's be honest, like eight
times out of ten, you guysdidn't even tell us what was
going on until it was done.
Warren (25:23):
Anyway, that's a different episode.
The hiring managers you startrecruiting and you get some
candidates lined up and then onpaper, that's not what we're
looking for at all, and likewhat?
Kristina (25:36):
That's why an intake meeting.
Recruiters should be havingintake meetings with hiring
managers.
Every single time you get a joborder, I don't care how many
times you've worked that joborder you have an intake call
with that hiring manager becauseotherwise you will end up
exactly where we're interested.
You're going to have a perfectfit on paper that matches what
you guys put down on paperinternally and they're going to
(25:57):
be like not even close, put downon paper internally and they're
going to be like not even close.
Jazmine (26:02):
But then you have to think about those, those hiring
managers or those in leadershipwho are, like you know what we
need.
I don't have time to have thisintake meeting with you to tell
you what need, what is needed inthis position.
Like you read the jobdescription, just like I did,
from whatever it came from.
Kristina (26:22):
So you know, in my very first big girl staffing job
, I was really good at what Idid.
I was good and I alwaysrequired the intake process
right, because I can't serve youas a client if you don't give
me more information.
(26:42):
And we had like 22 offices atthat company that I worked for
at the time, all spread acrossthe Southeast, and I was like
outbilling everyone and everyoneelse was like but she turns
work away.
We don't understand, like theytruly didn't get it.
And I'm like well, becauseyou've got your team working on
jobs that you haven't reallytruly qualified because you
didn't get it.
And I'm like, well, becauseyou've got your team working on
jobs that you haven't reallytruly qualified because you
(27:02):
didn't have an intake call.
So you have them wasting theirtime and wasting candidates time
.
And I don't do that.
I go after work that is realthat they can really have a
conversation about, and I drugthat with me to the corporate
world.
So when I had multiple hiringmanagers that I was supposed to
serve as the recruiter of theorganization, I would just be
(27:23):
like if you can't sit down andanswer these questions, I cannot
work on your job.
I'm going to put it to the side.
You let me know when you havetime, because otherwise you're
going to get what I think youshould have, and you're probably
not going to be happy with that, because I have a totally
different perspective than youdo and I don't think enough
(27:45):
recruiters push back and I don'tthink enough recruiters feel
comfortable pushing back on thatLike that is a legitimate step
in the hiring process thatshould be required everywhere.
So that is something that's notlike a preference, that's not
like a I hope I have this in mynext job.
That is something that isrequired for you to be able to
(28:05):
go and execute your job wellthat knows short-term disability
rights, I guess, and you'relike no, I need a systems
technical developer.
Jazmine (28:24):
I didn't know what that means.
Kristina (28:28):
I'm not going to lie.
I was told to my brother Ididn't know where you're going
with that.
I was like what, what anacronym for whatever she's about
to tell us.
Jazmine (28:38):
Well, I figured this is Jada.
We needed to have a little fun.
Vince McMahon.
Warren (28:44):
Oh gosh.
Kristina (28:46):
I don't know.
Well, okay, so what about this,though?
Because I literally just cameoff of this, I don't know, a
week ago or so, I am going totell y'all something honestly
the worst part of my job isrejecting candidates, and I know
that feels like an answer arecruiter would give you, but it
sucks, and especially like withmy husband going through a job
(29:07):
search right now and like seeinghim have to navigate the
rejection.
Jasmine's recent experiencelike it's so much more personal
to me than it ever has been,even though I've always taken
that pretty seriously.
But I had a position I was justworking.
Hopefully it'll be closed soon.
We've got some good candidatesthat we've narrowed it down to.
320 people applied, like in aweek, to this job, and so, like
(29:32):
at first pass through, you knowwhen they say stuff like oh,
recruiters spend like sixseconds on your resume.
This is why because that firstpass today, we're down.
320 candidates.
I'm looking for the top thingsthat are required for that job,
right, so typically I'm just a.
I'm a team of one, right, I'm ateam of one person.
So typically and I have like 20applicants I can get a little
(29:53):
bit personal when I send you arejection email and I can say,
hey, we're looking for this andwe didn't see this on your
resume.
So you know we're going to goout with a different candidate.
But you know, stay in touch orwhatever the right message is.
It's different for each client.
But when I have 320 of those todo, you kind of get like a
standard rejection email and Ihate it and it and it and it
(30:15):
bugs me.
But I think sometimes you know,candidates don't know what I'm
doing on the inside and they'rejust seeing what they get.
And sometimes we're upset forthe wrong reasons, because if it
says minimum qualifications orwhatever these three things are,
and you know you don't havethose three things, can you
(30:36):
really be upset with me forgiving you a generic rejection
email?
I don't know.
What do you guys think?
Warren (30:42):
No, absolutely not.
At least you're gettingsomething.
I.
I, I feel you wanting to give apersonalized touch, especially
in your, your situation, yourrecruiting party company of one,
and you know you don't want toburn those bridges with his
clients.
But if you know, I've got 25plus years in HR, I'm not going
(31:02):
to apply for some, I don't knowaccounting job somewhere and
expect to get an interview.
I don't hit the minimumqualifications and and but I, I
also do think too many peoplethink that they have to hit each
one of the bullet points.
Many people think that theyhave to hit each one of the
(31:23):
bullet points.
Hey, there's 10 bullet points.
I hit five.
I'm applying, baby, you know,let's see what it is.
Uh versus oh.
You know, I've got nine ofthese, but I don't have the 10th
one, so I'm not gonna apply.
I.
I see people talking about thatall the time, like you know,
especially as easy it is toapply online.
Jazmine (31:38):
At most places nowadays it's indeed one click apply, oh
my god, wait a minute now,warren, wait a minute now now
the ones who have to applyonline.
Warren (31:50):
Upload your resume.
Kristina (31:51):
Then type your whole resume in again, those 1990s
atrs systems, atrs reading thoselike if, if companies still
have those, is anyone completingthem?
Are they all just giving up?
Jazmine (32:01):
I will say so I will say the issue that I found the
most is like you would uploadthe resume and they it would put
the information in, but itdoesn't put it correctly all the
time.
So those I would be more willingto you know correct.
(32:23):
But there was one that I wouldupload the resume and like
nothing would come over and itwould then have to.
You then have to go through andlist every single thing and I
was just like you know what thisain't for me, yeah, but so for
(32:44):
me, what I found is no, I don'tif it's you know something big
when I apply to something, if wehave never spoken, then sending
me a generic email stating thatyou're going with another
candidate, okay, cool.
Once we hit a phone screen, I'mstill fine with you sending me
an email.
I like it.
I would like it to bepersonalized to me, but I am
(33:06):
still fine with just a phonescreen once.
Once we get more than a phonescreen, maybe a phone call, but
I'm not really a phone callperson, especially if you're
about to reject me for something.
So that's why it's a littledifferent for me.
That is fine if you would stillsend me an email, or maybe you
know.
Tell me, hey, I'm about toreject you, so I can then just
send you the voicemail.
But no, I and hey.
Warren (33:27):
Jasmine, can I give you a call to reject you real quick?
Yep.
Jazmine (33:30):
I'm gonna hang up, call me right back and I'm gonna
reject it in there.
So it's just if that works out.
But I think that is the issuewith some candidates.
They are expecting you to sendthem exact details on why they
weren't selected and it's justlike you have like nothing and
(33:53):
this isn't one of those.
Oh, anyone can learn this typeof job.
This is no.
I need this skill and you donot have this skill, so okay.
Kristina (34:02):
But so we have covered in this conversation a lot and
we have been around the world,like we always do in our
conversations, but we've coveredso many different variables
about how your application isreviewed, how job orders are
taken, how jobs are posted, howyou can apply.
So that's what job seekers areup against is.
(34:24):
We've just shared so manydifferent opinions about the
same process and it's notconsistent across the board
everywhere.
So, like my heart goes out topeople because I'm like,
especially when I see someonewho has zero like qualifications
or maybe one qualification fromthe job, I just immediately go
like okay, this person hasprobably been searching for a
job for a while now and they'rejust like desperate and they're
(34:45):
just applying to everything.
And I just wish I had the timeto have a one-on-one call with
all of these people and say, hey, how can I help you?
Because this is not the job,this isn't the one.
But tell me what's going on.
Of course, again, one personshop.
I do not have that kind of time.
Even if I had a team of people,I probably wouldn't have that
kind of time.
But it just sucks when youthink of, like you know, you've
(35:07):
got recruiters out here andmaybe, maybe it wasn't a shady
recruiter, maybe it was a hiringmanager giving that recruiter a
lot of pressure to get thiswrapped up, for whatever reason.
Like Jasmine's example earlier,they wait until the last minute
.
They've got to get this lockedup or they can't proceed with,
like whatever new business ideaor proposal or whatever.
(35:28):
But also like I I stillencounter, like some old school
hiring managers who think thatrecruiters should be doing that
activity to people to get themto say yes to a job offer or
like I see it in staffing,sometimes, when I'm like you
know, the hiring manager will belike you need to let your
candidates know that if theyturn this down like they're
making you look bad, no, no, no,no, no.
(35:51):
Really, if they turn this downafter they interview with you,
that's on you, buddy, that's noton me.
They're not making me look bad.
They're making an informeddecision for themselves.
But there's all this.
The point is, there's all thisconflicting information and
there's so many people who havetheir hands in the process and a
lot of times it's just a badhiring process, like what the
(36:13):
hell are candidates supposed todo?
Jazmine (36:16):
it's tough, it's tough I don't know what candidates are
supposed to do like seriouslybeing in this, and I am very,
very grateful and blessed that Iwas able to find a position in
the time frame that I have,because I see, you know, I get
on LinkedIn every single day andpeople are out there and
they're just it's been sixmonths since my layoff, it's
(36:38):
been over a year since my layoff, and it's like you go and
sometimes I really like I willgo and look at what they have
and I'm like, wow, of course Ihave the stuff, like I don't
know what this person is doing,but from what I can see on their
background, it's like, you know, they have some really good
experience.
I saw, right before we got onthis conversation, I actually
saw someone tweet and they had apicture up of a LinkedIn
(37:00):
profile.
And actually saw someone tweetand they had a picture up of a
LinkedIn profile and it was likethis person stayed here for
like six months.
Another person stayed here forwell, they, the same person,
stayed at another company fornine months and they were the
person that posted.
It was like do do candidatesthink that this job hopping is,
you know, good for for them?
And I'm like, well, first ofall, one position says it was a
(37:21):
contract.
So if that was a six-monthcontract, then they knew what
they were going to complete yeah, yeah.
And then the other one.
Again we're in.
We are in an area in which youdon't know that that person
decided to leave that job afternine months.
That person could have had areally great, enjoyable
experience and got laid off dueto a number of reasons, or had a
(37:45):
crappy manager and the manageris a hater and was like you know
what we got to find a way toget you up out of here.
Like y'all people you know, andnot just recruiters, but like
these LinkedIn influencers andeverything are just putting so
much on what people have on apiece of paper which, yes, yes,
there's somewhere to start, butyou really don't know what a
person is going through Just bylooking at their resume.
(38:07):
You don't know their background, you don't know the the issues
that they've had at workplacesthat's due to no fault of what
they are trying to do as acandidate or as an employee.
Like, I think we're justputting so much expectations on
on employees or candidates andthen, as companies, we are not
(38:27):
putting ourself or holdingourselves to those same
standards just because we make acertain amount of money.
It's just like, oh well, we cando what we please.
And I think that is where trulythe big issue of you know, work
is.
But you know, like I, saidearlier I'm on a leadership kick
, so we'll see understandably soI I think you, you have the the
(38:57):
problem.
Warren (38:58):
You, for years we'd shit on millennials because they
were the first job hopping group, and then after that, now we're
shitting on Gen Z.
They're the same way.
But now you know, themillennials are in their 30s and
40s, they've settled down andthey're you know, they're here
and they're kicking ass.
Jazmine (39:18):
Well, first of all, Warren, we were always doing
that.
So I mean hello, yeah, yeah,yeah, kicking ass and well first
of all, we were always doingthat, so I mean hello yes, yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Warren (39:27):
As an old xer, I just remember all these conversations
about the, the kids coming outtoday and now I'm hearing it to
go.
You know soon, you know they'regoing back that the next group
of kids they're the alphas and Ithink they're entering the job
force in like five years orsomething like that like yeah,
and so this is.
Kristina (39:45):
This is also I mean, this is a classic hiring mistake
, and I believe this is aclassic hiring mistake that
enables the shitty behavior thatwe see sometimes from
recruiters or hiring managers isthat employers want to hire
what they want to hire.
You have got to change with thelabor market.
(40:07):
You can't just will somethinginto existence as an employer.
So for these Gen Z folks,specifically for Gen Z, I just
had this conversation today withsomeone who wanted to know
where they fell in the marketwith return to work, stuff, okay
(40:29):
.
And so I'm talking to them andI'm like, okay, but we're going
to see the ramifications forthis for years to come, because
it's not just, oh, those of usmillennials and up who were
already in the workforce andwent home for a couple of years.
That was sparked by COVID.
It's also the fact that we havecollege students who finished
college remotely when theystarted in person.
We have high school studentswho finished high school
(40:51):
remotely when they started outin person, and so that is their
world.
Now they expect hybrid to be anoption for almost anything that
they do, because that's whatthey've experienced and it was
successful for most people and Iknow some people are outliers
and they didn't have a good timeand they want to be in the
(41:12):
office or they want to be, youknow, in person or whatever, but
most people are to the pointwhere they're going to expect
hybrid.
So, yeah, maybe you can forceall your millennials and up back
into the office, because weknow a different time in the
workplace.
These kids are coming in withdifferent expectations.
These kids are coming in withdifferent skill sets, different
(41:34):
mindsets, different work ethics,and you can't just keep hiring
these people and then firingthem because they're not doing
exactly what you wanted them todo.
You have got to change with thelabor market and that doesn't
mean, like Jasmine said earlier,that candidates get to come in
and then get to walk all over us.
It means that maybe you have todo more training than you had
to do in the last five years.
(41:54):
Maybe you have to take moreentry-level people.
Maybe you have to develop aninternal labor pool for a
specific skill set that you'renot seeing in the job market
anymore.
Maybe you have to get creativein a lot of different ways to
make sure that you're shiftingto whatever the available talent
is.
Warren (42:12):
Yep.
Kristina (42:13):
Otherwise, you're just going to be making poor
decisions.
Warren (42:17):
Exactly, exactly.
Well, I was just going to addone personal, the only shitty
recruiting experience I ever hadas a candidate.
It was my first job that I tookout of college.
I went to work as a retailmanager, which I am not well
suited for that at all.
But here's why, and I knew that.
(42:38):
I knew I'm not a customerservice, people pleasing type
person.
I knew that.
But the line the recruiter gaveme was the pathway to the whole
corporation starts in the store.
And so I got recruited asassistant store manager.
That's a great line, yeah, andthat's all it was, was a line.
(42:59):
I was assistant manager on mysecond year review, the district
manager sat down with me and hesaid well, you're on the short
list for getting your own store.
And dah, dah, dah I'm talkingto these future plans.
It's great, but that's not whatI want to do.
I want to.
You know my degree's in HR, Iwant to get into HR.
And the recruiter told me thatyou know the pathway.
The whole corporation starts inthe store.
(43:24):
He says, says I've been with thecompany 30 some years I've
never seen someone go from thestore to corporate and and that
was I my resume hit the marketlike the next morning and I was
not there much longer after thatyeah, that's interesting.
Jazmine (43:35):
so I didn't have that experience of me, of them
telling me that I would go tocorporate.
But for a my last year or twowith Chuck E Cheese I really,
really wanted to become an HRperson at Chuck E Cheese.
Kristina (43:55):
Oh, Whatever, I never really pursued it.
Jazmine (44:01):
No, I was so serious I thought so checker cheese
corporate is they were I don'tknow if they still are was in
texas and I was like, oh my god,that would be like amazing, I'm
gonna move out to texas, I'llbe an hr person for check it out
, like I was.
I was ready and willing and Inever pursued it.
Andrew Quilpa (44:23):
But that's actually a good line Warren.
Jazmine (44:25):
I mean I feel like more companies are.
They might have that.
Kristina (44:30):
You might hear that some more who can I, who can I
work that in for with my currentclient base?
I don't know it's a good line I?
I got a little nervous, jasmine.
I thought you were about totalk about your last recruiting
experience and I was like whatare you about to say?
How would you rate yourrecruiter on a scale of one to
(44:50):
10?
10 being the best?
Jazmine (44:53):
Oh, I can't say what I was about to say, but the
recruiter was a 10.
I can tell you that much.
Warren (44:59):
You're putting those.
Jazmine (45:06):
Taylor.
Kristina (45:07):
Swift parts down.
Jazmine (45:11):
I don't know the kids need something different now.
Kristina (45:13):
Okay.
Andrew Quilpa (45:16):
All right?
Well, I don't know my brain.
Kristina (45:20):
it's hard for my brain .
Jazmine (45:21):
The recruiter thought you were a 10, well, I don't
know.
My brain it's hard for my brain.
Kristina (45:23):
The recruiter thought you were 10, too, but I'm sure I
gave you a line.
But the difference is, whateverline I gave you, I believed it.
I didn't make something up, Ibelieved it.
Warren (45:33):
Wow, we've gone so long today.
This is a good episode.
I've had a lot of fun and we'vegot to get you all back more
often.
It's been over a year.
I think this is the last timewe we had y'all on, and it's
just so much fun.
Kristina (45:51):
So I think it's been over a year since we've recorded
anything.
Warren (45:54):
You have the open door invitation.
Hey Warren, I want to rantabout whatever it is.
You've got it.
You've got an audience righthere.
All my dozens of listeners,Dozens of listeners.
Kristina (46:06):
We love your dozens of listeners.
We love them yeah.
Warren (46:11):
We're no longer ranked in some of these countries.
I haven't looked at the rankslately.
We haven't had a review in awhile, so if you enjoyed this
episode, give us a review If youdidn't enjoy it, don't review
that episode, thank you.
Kristina (46:20):
No, enjoyed this episode.
Give us a review.
So if you didn't enjoy it,don't review that episode, thank
you no, I'll read a one-starreview.
Warren (46:25):
The only one-star review we've ever gotten didn't have
any narrative to it.
We've gotten all our reviewsare five stars except for one.
It's like our apple rating islike 4.8 or something like that
and the person didn't have thenerve to to tell us I would have
read it.
I would have had some fun withit.
But anyway, that's probably whythey didn't have the nerve to
tell us why I would have read it.
I would have had some fun withit.
Kristina (46:41):
But anyway, that's probably why they didn't write
it.
Warren (46:46):
Well, I think we'll go ahead and land this plane for
right now.
Thank you so much for beingwith us and pinch hitting.
This has been so much fun, andlet's see best practice tonight.
Don't be a shitty recruiter.
That sums it up.
And don't be a shitty recruiter.
That sums it up.
And don't be a shitty candidate.
Just don't be shitty.
Don't be shitty.
(47:07):
That works too.
The intro and outro music isthe underscore, orchestra double
the double and our voice artistis Andrew Colpa.
Want to thank both of them, but, as always, I'm Warren.
Jazmine (47:19):
I'm Jasmine, I'm Christina and we're here helping
you survive HR one.
What the fuck moment both ofthem.
Warren (47:22):
But, as always, I'm Warren, I'm Jasmine, I'm
Christina and we're here helpingyou survive HR one.
What the fuck moment at a time.
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