June 12, 2025 • 56 mins
Sometimes the most mundane workplace interactions become the most revealing. After Warren's unexpected hospital stay (complete with gallbladder surgery and online quizzes taken while being wheeled to the operating room), we dive into what's really happening in HR departments across America.
The SHRM annual conference saga continues with a plot twist worthy of a sitcom: Bradley Cooper cancels his keynote appearance due to "scheduling conflicts," only to be replaced by Jason Sudeikis – the very speaker who notoriously backed out last year to watch a basketball game. With registration fees approaching $3,000 (plus travel expenses), we question whether traditional professional conferences deliver genuine value or if our newly proposed "Free Range Conferencing" might be a better investment.
Beyond the conference circuit drama lies a more significant workplace transformation: Gen Z's wholesale rejection of middle management positions. Unlike previous generations who viewed climbing the corporate ladder as the ultimate success metric, younger workers are prioritizing work-life balance and specialized expertise over leadership titles. Smart organizations are responding by creating dual career tracks and implementing project-based leadership opportunities that allow talent to grow without forcing everyone into management.
We also tackle the persistent trust deficit between employees and HR, unpacking why 70% of workers report not trusting their HR departments despite HR rarely being the actual decision-maker on terminations, promotions, or compensation. This disconnect manifests in real-world scenarios like our story about a candidate who confirmed understanding a role's on-site requirements three separate times before demanding remote work after receiving an offer.
Whether you're navigating hospital bureaucracy, questioning professional development investments, or rethinking traditional career progression models, this episode offers both practical insights and a healthy dose of workplace reality. After all, sometimes you just need someone to say what everyone's thinking.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thank you.
Oh, waiting for cloud to startrecording.
Interesting, are we recording?
It didn't go so far.
Five, four, three, two, two oneit says it's recording okay,
yeah, all righty.
Welcome to Jaded HR to podcastby two HR professionals who want
(01:11):
to help you get through workday by saying everything you're
thinking, but say it out loud.
I'm Warren, I'm Cece, so wedidn't have an episode.
Two weeks ago somebody decidedthat they needed to spend five
days in the hospital and thatsomebody was me, so we did not
get the opportunity to record,but I have some really fun
(01:34):
hospital stories I want to sharebefore we get into the meat and
potatoes of our HR podcast.
I mentioned in the last episode.
We did that I ruined my wife'sMother's Day by being sick.
Well, we got to the root causeof it.
I had gallstones.
And not only did I havegallstones, I had one that
slipped out of the gallbladderand was blocking a duct in my
(01:55):
liver.
So I've been feeling like crapall day the Thursday before
Memorial Day weekend, and byfour or five o'clock in the
afternoon, as I'm getting readyto leave for work, I'm feeling
just shit warmed over.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
My stomach was hurting.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
My back was hurting, I was just, I was a wreck.
I texted my primary care doctorand I said hey, you know, we've
been talking.
I've been going to her for acouple of weeks and she was
diagnosing me with GERD butwanted to do a CT scan, which I
couldn't get until May 30th.
But this I don't know what thedate was of, the Thursday before
Memorial Day, but it was beforethe 30th, and I was like I just
(02:30):
texted her, I'm going to thehospital.
I said I can't do this anymoreand anyway.
So I go to the hospital and thefirst person sees me, the PA.
You know she's doing the test.
She's thinking GERD too.
So press down on your stump.
Because she said, I have thesymptoms of a gallbladder, but
when you press down on the liverit's supposed to hurt, and I
(02:50):
had no additional pain, nothing.
So she's like I don't know andshe goes this doesn't seem like
GERD, but it's probably theclosest thing.
Anyways, I got my CT scan therein the hospital and there it was
.
I had an angry gallbladder andone of the stones was out, and
so they admitted me.
I got my gallbladder removed onthe Friday, the next day,
Friday late afternoon, as I hadto squeeze me in.
(03:11):
And then, but that stone thatwas blocking the bile duct.
Oh, my liver is a wonderfulthing type thing that doesn't
have anything to do with mydrinking.
I asked multiple times and it'snot.
I don't have cirrhosis of theliver or anything, but it was.
The stone ended up fullyblocking this duct, and so I
(03:31):
started getting very jaundicedand my wife was calling me Homer
Simpson.
She said you're looking orangelike Homer Simpson and things
like that.
So well, the suck ass thingabout all this.
I needed the gallbladder cameout.
You know, quick and dirty.
But the general surgeon so well, the suck ass thing about all
this.
I needed the gallbladder cameout, you know quick and dirty.
But the general surgeon saysokay, you have the stone, it's
here.
He goes I've done the surgerybefore, I'll do it.
(03:54):
He's a general surgeon at thehospital.
He says I'll do it again.
And he says, however, if it wasme, I would want the GI doctor
doing it and not a generalsurgeon.
He says but I'm here allweekend and we're going to
monitor your blood work and ifyour liver enzymes get too high,
I'll go in and get it done,because we couldn't get a GI
(04:14):
doctor until after the holidayweekend, so until Tuesday.
So they're monitoring my liver.
Apparently, the gallstone canshift it, which it did, and I
got my enzymes back and I turnedback to a human being color
versus a Simpson color, andthings started getting better
for me once it shifted again.
But anyways, I had to spendfive days, six nights, in the
(04:36):
hospital, or six days, fivenights in the hospital, I should
say, and having absolutelynothing to do, and the TV didn't
work in the room I was in.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Even better.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, it was just God awful in so many ways, but I
got, like I said, got some fun,interesting stories.
So I was telling you all fair.
My first surgery on that Fridaywas scheduled for like 3.30 and
the doctor and all hisassistant come in and they're
talking okay, you're scheduledfor 3.30.
We're going to come, you'regoing to be taken down to the
(05:11):
operating room staging gangwayarea, whatever they call it, an
hour beforehand and all this I'mlike, okay, fine, All's good.
Well, at 12.30, I'm takingclasses online.
At 12.30, I started a timedonline quiz and it's I've only
had half hour to do the quiz.
(05:31):
Now, normally it only take 15,20 minutes.
It's not a big deal or anything, and but literally within
seconds of me hitting start onthe quiz, here comes everybody
and their mother to okay, we'regetting ready to take you down
to pre op and I'm like whoa, I'mat 3.30.
Give me 20 minutes.
I just started quiz.
She said, no, we're not givingyou 20 minutes or anything like
(05:54):
that.
And so, oh, here's the firstfunny thing that happened.
So there's all sorts of medicalprofessionals in there and a
medical transport person, theperson who's responsible for
wheeling you from your cart fromplace to place.
So I'm in there and they saywell, she goes, can you get up
and use the restroom?
And I said, yeah, I can do that.
She goes okay, empty yourbladder and all that.
(06:15):
So I go use the restroom, I sitback down and she goes okay,
now we need to do a scan of yourbladder and make sure it's
empty so we still don't have togive you a catheter.
Okay, I signed the consent formallowing students to be in there
and this one student and shewas she was very sweet, very
funny.
She goes Ooh, she's like horseshack from welcome back.
Ooh, I want to do the bladderscan.
(06:36):
I want to do the bladder scan.
And the head nurse goes okay,okay, here it is.
Bam, the sheets come off my bed, bam, my, my gown is up to my
neck and there I am, like withair, like I've I'd never, in the
entire time I was there, I hadthat many people in my room in
all my, all my glory, and she'sscanning my bladder and she's
(06:58):
having a good old time.
And she goes I got it.
I got it and I was okay, justdidn't have any care for my
modesty or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
No.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So I mean, it was just whip down the bed sheet and
whip up my gown and I'm like,okay, whatever.
It was funny in hindsight, butI was a little irritated at the
time and things like that.
So anyways, like I said, I'dstarted the exam.
I didn't have luckily I didn'thave to get a catheter.
(07:30):
So I told them I'm sittingthere as they're wheeling me
down from my room to the pre-oparea.
I'm sitting there taking a quizas they're wheeling me around.
I'm using my phone as a mobilehotspot and I got it done.
I got an 80, the lowest gradeI've received all you know grad
school time.
But I'm like I'll take it.
I'll take the 80.
I was under much duress at thatpoint.
So that was the day.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So dedicated.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, yeah.
And then I got out of surgeryby the time I came to and got
less, I think, because aftersurgery they were keeping me on
morphine like every three hours.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
They're like oh, you need more morphine.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I wasn't asking they're, they're just giving
you're like oh sure I hadanother assignment due that was
due before midnight and I gotthat done, got an okay grade on
that as well.
I submitted it like 11 55 pm,so did all that.
But the next that was friday,saturday in the hospital nothing
, nothing to do, I waiting.
(08:24):
You know my?
They're taking my blood twice aday and they're coming in every
two hours to get all my vitals.
I'm like you know what?
I've got this wonderful littlesmartwatch.
It takes my blood pressure, ittakes my heart rate, it takes my
temperature, all the thingsyou're getting.
Why don't you just connect tomy watch for me and don't have
to come and bother me?
But I was checking.
(08:46):
My watch was pretty damn closeto the results they were getting
with their equipment.
It wasn't perfect, but it wasprobably close enough for
anything else.
But yeah, they did that.
So Saturday, sunday, monday, inthe hospital.
Oh, while I was in the hospitalI was on a clear liquid diet, so
let me back up.
Thursday morning I ate mynormal breakfast, everything's
(09:08):
hunky-dory.
Midday I wasn't feeling well,so I didn't eat my lunch.
I didn't eat a lunch.
And then, thursday evening,they finally decided they're
going to schedule me for surgery.
They didn't know what time, soI wasn't allowed to eat or drink
anything Thursday night and allday Friday till three o'clock
and I really didn't care becausemy stomach was not feeling that
well.
(09:28):
But Friday late evening I got myfirst meal, consisting of
chicken broth and yellow jello,and at the hospital they give
you like a little receipt howmany calories your meal is, and
so that meal was like 110calories.
So since Thursday I'vebasically consumed 110 calories.
(09:50):
The next three days mybreakfast is a breakfast, the
next three days vegetable broth,lunch chicken broth and dinner
beef broth, all with yellowjello, but at dinner I did get
an Italian ice.
So I I was consuming like lessthan 600 calories a day for
(10:10):
those six days in the hospitaland and then, of course, tuesday
for the second surgery, Icouldn't eat anything again all
day.
I lost eight pounds in thehospital.
I would not recommend it as aas a weight loss clinic, but I
did.
I have kept it off since then,but I lost eight pounds in the
hospital.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's like the Dr Now diet from my 600-pound life.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
That is extreme.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Okay, we're up here.
My wife is obsessed with allthose weight loss, those shows.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
It's brain rot.
It's brain rot.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
The 600-pound life which I can watch.
I think it's fine.
I love Dr Now the way he saysyou're lying, you gained 15
pounds.
You weren't following my diet.
Yes, I am.
Yes, I am Okay.
I love Dr Now.
He just calls them out Herother favorite show, which she's
actually downstairs watching itright now.
Every Tuesday we record shewatches the Thousand Pound
(11:03):
Sisters.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Okay, I see I haven't watched that.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Oh gosh, it is human trash on parade to the extreme.
Yeah, I can't stand that show.
And when she's watching it andI'm in the room, she calls me a
TV talker.
I'm just like what the fuck?
These people cannot literallybe that stupid and yet they
prove me wrong week in, week out.
(11:29):
It's like how stupid can we be?
And I don't have these.
It's yeah, it's, it's brain rotand their brains have rotted if
they had one to begin with.
It is.
And she watches all the all theweight loss shows or or
whatever you want to call them.
She's watching them all and thethousand pound roomies she just
started watching.
I'm like, oh my, there's a lot.
(11:50):
There's so many of those things, but anyways, let's see.
So Tuesday I had my secondsurgery.
That went really well.
It's so funny.
They put me under that Twilightanesthetic and the
anesthesiologist is in there andshe's in there.
Okay, we're gonna give you some.
Really, she's, this is what shesaid.
We're gonna give you somereally good shit, man, and
(12:12):
you're gonna have great dreams.
Through this whole process.
You just sit back and enjoy itand relax and enjoy the ride and
I'm like I was like I've beenunder twilight anesthesia before
, like, and she goes no, this isthe good stuff, this is pro
fall, pro fall or whatever.
She goes, this is good.
I'm like, okay, she's like.
It's like she's my drug dealer.
And and then all of a suddenshe goes.
(12:35):
I'm going to start in three,two, one, and then all of a
sudden my arm just startedburning, like I said, wow, this
hurts.
She goes, that's how you knowit's good.
And she goes in 30 secondsyou're going to be in la-la land
and you won't care.
Nice, it was good.
During the procedure, I had wilddreams.
I was okay.
My wife, you know theanesthesiologist came up.
(12:58):
How were your dreams?
She's like into this.
I wonder if she put a littleLSD or something in my mix there
, because she was into this,very passionate about her work.
How was your and how are yourdreams?
I said, yeah, I was.
I was like in a Harry Pottermovie and I was riding the
broomstick ramp.
I wasn't playing Quidditch andI was just flying around
(13:19):
Hogwarts on my broom.
And she said that's so cool.
And she goes.
I told you to have good dreamsand I'm like, yeah, she was into
it.
And my wife, who hates?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
online.
Honestly, you want youranesthesiologist to be into it
because they're basically, theyhave your life in their hands.
You want them to be real intoit.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
She was.
She was hilarious.
But my wife is making fun of mefor having a Harry Potter dream
.
I'm like I don't choose what.
I'm dreaming that I'm ridingaround a broomstick around
Hogwarts and my wife says oh myGod, you're such a nerd.
I'm like, yeah, you've knownthat for 30 some odd years now.
So, anyways, that's my storyand that's why we didn't record
two weeks ago.
But hopefully we will be backon schedule and finally have the
(14:03):
benefits episode of the officein a couple of weeks for you
three weeks, yeah yeah, so.
So how was your past month beensince?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
oh my gosh I don't know it's been busy.
My mom was radioactive for awhile so she had like some
nuclear treatment and then shehad to stay downstairs in our
basement we have a nice basement, it's not like she was living
in a basement.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Lock her in a basement.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
But she was like down there and she lived down there
for a week until she could beamongst other humans.
So there's that.
Other than that, I traveled forwork.
So my new company went toCalifornia, went there for a
week, met my team in person andit was a fun time.
I really feel good about thisteam I'm on.
(14:53):
I'm super excited, Cool.
Very warm, very welcoming.
It was great.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
That's half the battle.
When you meet the team and youget involved and you say this is
a cool team, a group, I want tobe involved with that.
That's like half the battleright there.
So yeah.
Cool, cool.
So we've done 15 minutes andhaven't even discussed the HR,
so let's dive into some HR.
Oh my gosh, so great.
(15:19):
And this comes to us from Jamie, from HR best besties.
She posted this to instagramabout the the more drama sherm
is having about their annualconference.
So let's rewind a year ago, to2024, when jason sudeikis was
supposed to be the keynotespeaker ah, yes and he backed
(15:43):
out at the 11th hour so he couldwatch Caitlin Clark play a game
and things like that.
So they got Al Roker to fill inat the last minute, which I
thought was funny, interesting,but they got Al Roker to fill in
and he is a funny person.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Your future is so bright You're going to need
stage.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, let's now fast forward to 2025.
Back in May, they announcedthat the keynote speaker was
going to be Bradley Cooper and,yeah, it seems pretty good.
Well, all of a sudden, he had ascheduling conflict.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Oh man.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And on top of that, who's replacing him?
Jason Sudeikis is coming back.
Oh, it's full circle, it's fullcircle.
And then the announcement suremade was yep, we're trying this
again.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
That is too funny.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, I'm like, why would you want?
Unless they got like bargainbasement pricing for him, why
would you want him back afterjust oh yeah, yeah, your
conference I committed to I'drather go see a basketball game
when I'm a multimillionaire.
I can fly to whatever cityCaitlin Clark is in at any given
(16:59):
time and watch as manybasketball games as I want.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Well, remember, I had a theory that it was his silent
protest of all the stuff thatSherm was announcing with equity
, diversity and inclusion.
I thought because I needeverything to have a plot.
I thought maybe he got awhisper of it and backed out to
(17:22):
go watch Caitlin play a WNBAplayer.
That's my conspiracy theory.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And it makes sense because Sherm at that time was
just stepping in it left, right,up and down, supposedly.
Like I said, when I saw JCTspeaking at the Virginia Sherm
conference, he was very directand open and talking about it
and he said my people tell menot to talk about this, but I'm
going to talk about it anyway.
I don't know, but anyways itwas the plan.
(17:51):
And removing the equity yeah,the equity.
I can't remember what theyremoved now.
They removed one of the letters.
Maybe I should have done somemore homework.
They removed one of the letters.
Maybe I should have done somemore homework, they should.
They removed one of the lettersI think it was equity from dei
and therefore caused a shit show.
(18:11):
But jct says they were ahead ofthe curve and they saw the
writing on the wall, given somecourt things and stuff like that
.
So if you want to give them abit of it up, maybe they were
ahead of the curve, maybe theyweren't, maybe they were just
shaking things up and thingsfell in the right places.
I do not know yeah anyways.
Yeah, sherm and if you have, ifyou aren't already listened to
(18:32):
hr besties is they're going tobe covering the sherm trials in
colorado.
All three of them are going tobe there and in the courtroom
listening to the the trials.
So that's going to be prettyinteresting to follow.
More drama, drama, drama aroundSHRM.
So, yeah, let's see what's theunder over, I wonder, to Vegas.
It's in Vegas again, isn't it?
(18:53):
No it's in Vegas or San Diego,where is it?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Oh, it's San Diego.
I think it's 50-50.
Everything is either in Vegasor or san diego or new orleans
yeah, so they're gonna be in sandiego.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So what's the, what's the under over for jason
sudeikis showing up is?
He'll show up this time yeah, I, I think you can't not show up
after ditching us the last timeit was or ditching, sure, not
that ditching us is.
I'm not going.
I'm going to hit the registernow.
How much is this, this shitshow, to attend?
Let's see here's why.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
To attend in person oh, showing all these people
with their swag bags you knowwhat I always appreciate about
these conferences that close tothe registration page they will
have a basically building abusiness case for your boss to
let you go.
Yes, I'm actually just clickedon that for your boss to let you
go.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yes, I actually just clicked on that.
Convince your boss to make acase for attending SHRM 2025.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And I got to say honestly no notes Perfect, like
that's the barrier that peoplehave.
So help them get over thebarrier.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, it's just so.
Oh, here's the rates page.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Ooh can I guess?
Okay, member pricing, standardprices.
Okay, I'm gonna guess, I'mgonna guess, I'm gonna guess
standard pricing and I'm gonnaguess standard pricing is gonna
be 1300 oh no, you're.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
You're low, higher, higher, higher higher.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Higher oh my gosh, is it 17?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Higher, higher higher .
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Oh my gosh, Is it breaking two?
Is it two grand?
Higher, higher, higher.
Get the fuck out of here For aSHRM conference.
Oh my gosh, 2,500?
Higher, higher, higher.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
No, oh my gosh 2,500?
.
Higher, higher, higher.
No 28.45 is the standard price.
Now, the early bird special was22.95, but they're sold out of
the early bird.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Okay so, but if you want to turn that's so cost
prohibitive.
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Well, virtual.
You want to take a shot at howmuch the standard price of a
virtual is oh, what is itknocking?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
like $200 off of it exactly $200.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
So, okay, you're spinning.
Let's just be real about it.
You're spending $3,000 toattend, probably spending so
bare minimum 500, unless you'rein the San Diego area probably
bare minimum 500 for airfare andthen hotel for so many nights
(21:34):
that's got to be over a thousand.
So you're you're $4,000 in veryquickly and I have a hell of a
lot I would rather do with$4,000 than go to Sherm.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, you know it's funny.
I was while I was in Californiaand my like the team, we were
like talking, and the one of ourteam members went to PSYOP,
which is the society forindustrial organizational
psychology, and she went to thatand that was freaking
beneficial when she came backwith a whole bunch of stuff
(22:08):
about what's going on in theindustry, stuff like that.
And, yeah, like I would love.
I would love to give psyop atry, because I know like I feel
like sherm is just a.
It's just like we've discussedit before.
We don't need to beat a deadhorse about it, but it's just
like they don't provide thatmuch insight for what they offer
(22:30):
.
And then I always feel like I'mbeing sold at and I think with
psyop it's more like science,it's more scientific and it's
more data driven and stuff likethat.
So I think it's going to beless touchy-feely, less fluffy
and more hard-hitting data,hard-hitting science, and I
(22:53):
would love to give PSYOP a try.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
And I forgot I did see this as well.
Other keynote speakers aregoing to be Jenna Fisher and
Angela Kinsley from the office.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Oh my God, I would love to go just for that
actually.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I take everything back.
Sure, I'm going to throw outsome free tickets.
I would love to go meet them.
Thank you, you're the best.
You're the best of the day ofthe seminar, and last year I
started to go down the rabbithole and try and classify them
as touchy, feely or substantive.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
And I didn't get that far.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, there's just too many to look at them all.
But yeah, I, just this person,owner of this, feels right.
That seems like that could be asexual harassment case waiting
to happen with it.
Oh, this person, professionalspeaker at her name, speaks in
there.
I just love some of thesepeople that.
(24:00):
Anyways, it'll be interestingIf they put one in my backyard,
even at $3,000,.
I don't think I'd go at $3,000.
I, I don't think I may and Idon't think I'd go at $3,000,
even if it was in you know mytown and I didn't have to
commute or get a hotel oranything like that, I was like,
nah, just don't, you could getlike you know what for that much
money you can get like threenights at a really decent resort
(24:23):
.
Oh I, I tell you what my wifeand I, next month, are going to.
We're going to Costa Rica.
We're going for eight days.
We're staying in anall-inclusive resort, airfare
hotel and everything, ourexcursions.
We haven't even hit $5,000 yetand that's two of us going for
(24:49):
eight days out of country andwe're doing something we want to
do.
So there you go.
Our budget is not.
Actually.
Our budget was $5,000.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
We're below that, including our excursions and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
So new conference idea I'm going to call it free
range conferencing and you get acouple really good audio books
and a couple really goodpodcasts and you just go to a
resort for a week.
Yes, yes.
I'm not listening to anythingin HR.
Welcome to our little sex zone.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, that's the business case to get your
company to pay for it.
So you have to do some work.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, oh, gosh, rearrange conferencing, that
could catch on.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I'm going to trademark that one quick, I know
right.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Oh boy.
So anyways, that's.
Yeah, that's.
I do recognize some of thenames of presenters here the
Sherm but yeah, I just couldn'tdo that.
But I bet you, of these 300sessions that they're having or
whatever I could, probablyhopefully I'd be able to fill up
my schedule with justsubstantive things.
(26:02):
I would hope I would hope so.
Anyways, if you attend, havefun, give us some feedback what
you're doing, when is it?
It's usually like I don't evenknow.
So you had something to coverbefore we moved to another.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So there's an article that was released today by work
life, which is just an onlinemagazine, because paper
magazines are dead, anyway.
So basically they're talkingabout Gen Zs and how Gen Z
employees are opting out ofthose middle management
positions.
(26:40):
So your managers, your seniormanagers and they're doing it
out of work-life balance buthaving like a values-driven life
.
So a lot of them are justrejecting those leadership roles
.
So the article then went on tobasically talk about how this
comes to fruition.
And you have a lot of peoplewho just want to be in that
(27:02):
specialist zone and just reallyfocus their career on becoming
more of a subject matter expert.
How the organization shouldbasically plan for that to
happen, because you'll have kindof a small, like a subset I
don't want to say small, but youknow you have like a subset of
individuals who may not even beinterested in leadership roles.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, I've heard that .
I've heard it more aboutwork-life balance and not
wanting responsibilities andthings like that.
But I think what's concerningabout that is, right now, the
boomers they're almost allretired out of the workplace.
We have a few, but not many,left in our workplace, but
they're retiring and it's goodfor them.
(27:49):
And then you've got the Xers,the me's, out there.
I'm looking very desperatelyforward to, and remember,
generation X is the smallest ofall these generations, we're
just the smallest.
So there's not many of us, tobegin with, that are in those
leadership, to be in thoseleadership roles.
And I know some people that areXers that are starting to
(28:10):
retire already.
I'm severely jealous, butthey're in that point in their
life where they can do that.
I'll be working until I'm 67and a half or whatever it is.
But yeah, I think that we needpeople to be able to step up
because leadership and that'swhere maybe some leadership
development and training andonce again going back to maybe
(28:31):
identifying hypos in yourorganization Maybe you have what
it takes to be a good leader,you're very well organized,
you're charismatic, you canfollow through and things like
that Maybe you could be a leaderand start developing that
talent.
Because I've heard those thingsthat, oh, I'd rather not be in
management so I can have mywork-life balance.
(28:51):
Or maybe they're like I said,they're looking for values-based
organizations and things likethat.
It's just scary.
But I mean, well, everythingwill over, adapt and overcome.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
But wow yeah.
So here's what they said thathere's some considerations and a
couple of them I think arepretty good.
So it basically says to rethinkcareer progression.
So don't force everyone who isa top performer into managing
others.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Build dual career paths Awesome.
I can't agree with that more.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
A hundred and 27%.
Yeah, so, and that was the onething that, at a previous
organization, we focused on.
It's okay if you don't want tobe a manager, and here's how you
can grow your career, and wecalled it like the SME path, so
like, if you want to be like asubject matter expert within the
company, then here's ways thatyou can develop and we encourage
(29:43):
that, because you can't havenot everyone can be a leader.
So there's that.
And then they also saidredesign development.
So this is what I thought wasinteresting Instead of focusing
in on the leader as a positionor as a role or as a title,
encourage project-basedleadership, so not just formal
(30:04):
hierarchies.
So put people in charge ofprojects and make them that
leader of the project, insteadof having them have the title.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, and it is so I don't know what the right word
is.
Important not to force peopleinto leadership positions.
We're doing the office thing.
Michael Scott was a greatindividual contributor.
He was so good.
They promote him to managerwhere he sucks, he sucks.
(30:42):
That happens so often that it'salmost a joke now that, oh you
know, this person is such agreat individual contributor we
need to make them a manager.
And they can't do it.
Well, you might have thatmediocre performer, but they
have the innate leadershipskills.
And I do think leadership is,you know, like they say in
sports you can't teach speed.
(31:03):
I think you can develop andenhance people's abilities, but
if you don't have it to startwith, you don't have it.
And so those people that maybethey have great organizational
skills, planning skills, startdeveloping those people that
maybe they could be strugglingas an individual contributor
(31:24):
because they're more big pictureand they get, they feel they
get weeded down by the minutedetails of an individual
contributor has to do and yeah,businesses and hr have forced
that for so long and I thinkthat's probably one of the
biggest things that need tochange.
And as much as everybody talksabout it, it's still happening
(31:45):
rampantly.
And then again there's peoplewho want to be promoted into
leadership roles.
That can't handle it.
I worked somewhere we hadsomeone been a long-time
employee, great individualcontributor, did some little
minor leading on things and sothey decided they were going to
give him a shot as a leader whenhe had to lead a team.
(32:07):
Oh my gosh, it was a dumpsterfire from the word go and I like
the person.
I felt bad for them.
But they also realized that ittook two tries and they said, no
, I don't like this, I don'twant to be a leader anymore.
I'm like yeah, thank you, yousaved us from a hard decision or
a difficult conversation, butanyways, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, it's funny.
So I was looking at this onebullet where they're talking
about redesigning what theleadership structure could look
like and really focusing onproject-based leadership rather
than a formal hierarchy.
And I want to say, like 10years ago I was working at a
company and we had a fairly likefairly large for most companies
(32:54):
, but we had like a very largetalent management team and our
leader at the time was exitingthe company and we were in a
stage of waiting to hear who'slike our replacement leader was.
And one one guy on the teamsaid we should just do like a
round Robin, Like every monthsomeone on the team gets to lead
(33:17):
the team and blah, blah, blahand everyone he's like we can
make it like a reality show.
And everyone on the team laughedCause they're like that is so
like weird and dumb.
No, I thought it was brilliant.
And now the funny thing is islike I thought it was brilliant,
as if it was like funny, butthen, as I'm thinking about it,
(33:38):
I was like things like thatactually sound fun.
And I know we think about it interms of career development for
an individual, of like, oh,let's give them like a project
to manage for their development.
And this is saying, if youdon't have the bench for leaders
because let's say, in this, inthis hypothesis, we have an
(33:59):
entire generation who wants toavoid these positions entirely
to save their mental health andstuff if you don't have the
bench for leaders or you don'thave the leaders, that's like
kind of an interesting way to goabout it, because you do need
someone to make sure things aregetting done.
So, yeah, I just think that'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I think, essentially, I've been thinking about it.
If you're going around, you'retaking turns leading, if you're
all developed, if you start withdeveloping, okay, here's our
goal, here's where we want to be, here's our goal.
And everybody take a certainamount of time a week or so
leading.
That I can see that beingbeneficial, as long as but
(34:41):
everybody in the team has towork together, because you're
going to get that person, whothey're going to be in, over
their head from the word go, andthe rest of the team's still
going to have to to pick up.
And but yeah, as I'm digestingit, I'm thinking that could be
in the right circumstance, withthe right people.
That could be a really goodthing.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
But yeah, interesting , it's funny that you said that
because it also says that, forthis to work, organizational
structures should be likeflattened and really based on
trust, because the whole thingworks on constant communication,
constant collaboration and,yeah, so to your point, like it
(35:25):
has to work in a very open,trusting and collaborative
environment.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
And communication is going to be more important than
ever with that, because, asyou're doing the leadership
handoff, you know you're handingthe leadership baton over to me
for next week to communicate.
Ok, here's where we are tocommunicate.
Okay, here's where we are, butit's not just at the handoff
time, but complete transparencyand everything, because if
(35:52):
you're all quote unquote leadersat some point you can't.
Holy crap, nobody told me aboutthis.
I got sandbagged.
You know what's?
You know?
Yeah, well, this is.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
This is saying that it's not like a time-based thing
.
Like this is you're the leaderof running the engagement survey
for the organization that'syour baby, and like you can pull
people as resources on the teamas you need and direct them as
needed.
You, on the other hand, you'llbe doing like performance
management and dipping out thatway, so everyone kind of has
(36:23):
they're all like little, they'reall like project managers and
then, when they're not focusingon leading their one project
like their main project, they'replaying as a specialist on
other projects.
Oh my god, I love this.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I'm kind of nerding out time to write a
self-published book and get onthe speaker.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Let's see.
No, I do like the idea.
There.
You're leading me into anarticle I read on LinkedIn and I
don't have the data.
I copied and pasted it fromLinkedIn and it says three days
ago then and I couldn't tell youwhy I copied and pasted this.
So this comes to us fromJennifer McClure and so she
(37:10):
wrote this thing.
She goes HR.
This might sting.
Dr John Sullivan recentlypublished a scathing list of
failures that expose what isreally happening in many HR
departments, and the stats arehard to ignore.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
So I'm going to go down these stats.
I can't wait.
I'm waiting with bated breath.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, exactly, hr has a diversity problem.
Stat number one 71% ofprofessionals are women and 65%
identify as white.
Okay, Okay are women and 65%identify as white.
Okay, 71% is women.
I totally get, as I've workedwith like three men in my career
, not that many.
65% is white.
(37:51):
I don't know if I agree withthat, but where I live is one of
the most racially diverse areasin the country and I don't know
, maybe you go to middle Americawhere everybody's as white as
the wind-driven, snow and stufflike that.
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I will say I believe that could be real, I think
that's probably real.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
And now I'm curious.
So I'm like let me ask therobot.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Oh, let's chat.
Gbt say oh, I'll go on to thenext stat.
Only 46% of executives perceiveHR as contributing strategic
value.
Okay, I don't buy that.
I've worked places where I feelHR didn't have all the respect
they deserve, but I don't thinkHR was ever perceived as not
(38:44):
contributing a strategic value.
Even in the worst of placesI've been, I don't think that
that's the case.
But then again, a lot of theseHR pros they're the fuzzy
sweater should be a kindergartenteacher.
Let's all get along and have apizza party type thing.
And there's a lot of those outthere and you just go to a
(39:05):
showroom conference and you'llsee them in droves and you know
they should be in HR.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I think, for the most part, I've been lucky enough to
work at companies where HR isseen as a strategic partner.
Yeah, I worked at one wherethey were not.
We were actually called profitsucking overhead, you know.
But I don't.
I think again, I feel verylucky to have worked at decent
(39:32):
companies and I do want to letyou know that, just digging into
it just a little bit, those,those seem to be correct, those
demographics seem to align.
Okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Interesting.
Well, here's a fun next statfor that 70% of employees say
they don't trust HR.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Okay, yep.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
And you see the anti-HR and you see all these
people who just have some stickup their ass about HR and I
loved when Jamie was on she goes.
Just because your uncle gotfired for grabbing Sally's ass
once upon a time doesn't mean HRis the problem or whatever.
She said something to thatextent when she was on board
(40:17):
with us.
Hr is not the problem in thatinstance.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yeah, yeah, well, we're the problem in that
instance.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Well, we're the messengers.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
We're the messengers.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Because people somehow also think that HR are
like the decision makers,especially let's talk about like
termination or pay, becausethose are the things people are
the most sensitive about.
But they just kind of feel likeHR because they're the ones
that are telling power.
They have all the power andit's like no, by the time it
gets to hr's desk it has.
(40:47):
It has been come an issue likeyeah, and honestly it's a lot of
the things that have that go onall the business decisions.
We're probably part of it, orat least we consult on it, but
at the end of the day, a lot ofthings are like leadership
decisions.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
But I still don't see a reasonwhy people would say they don't
trust HR.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
They've been watching too much TV.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
They've been reading too much anti-HR or anti-work
Reddit posts and things likethat.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Just think of who terminates people when layoffs
happen or who's like standing inyour way to get a promotion,
like it can't be your completelyinept manager who can't give
you proper feedback so you candevelop.
It has to be the HR person.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
HR said I couldn't give you more than a 1% raise.
This year.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Oh HR said Grow a backbone, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
When HR says something, when they say HR says
you can almost guarantee HRdidn't say shit.
Oh, when you hear that HR saysthis, you know I tell you how
many times, and that's one ofthe stories I have for later,
but I'll probably get to thatone today at least.
Now here's one I really wantedyour feedback on.
(42:09):
This is the final stat thatJennifer quoted Dr Sullivan on.
A staggering 90% of individualL&D programs fail to achieve
their intended outcomes 90% 90%.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
That number seems ridiculous.
I will say this I think thestat is that you only remember
10% of what you learned from anin-person session or a
point-in-time training.
Okay, so we can flip thatnumber and we can then say, oh,
(42:46):
90% of all training is horrible,but that just means that
whoever is doing that trainingis not doing a good job.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Or maybe the training is not right for the audience,
or maybe the issue isn't atraining issue, it's a
leadership issue.
Yeah, that blew me away.
Well, jennifer goes on.
That's not a good look,especially for a function
responsible for driving culture,capability and leadership.
(43:19):
And to top it off and here'sanother stat HR has the highest
turnover rate of any corporatefunction.
Linkedin data shows HR'sturnover is 38% higher than the
corporate average.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
I'm going to call BS on those stats.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I agree, my time where I'm at now.
The entire accountingdepartment has turned over more
than once there and that's notuncommon, but I, you know
average person's now saying whatit's staying at a job of what
they say approximately threeyears now I'm above that and
it's interesting.
So, anyways, someone going backto someone replied based on the
(44:01):
work we've been doing at hiscompany, I think human resources
professionals have a choice tomake A quit.
If you believe HR is a joke,it's time to get out of the
profession.
Don't quite quit, just quit.
Or B transform those who areadding strategic value or want
to.
I implore you to continue thefight, to fight, et cetera.
(44:22):
So it goes on from there, butHR is not the problem generally
speaking.
Now, like I said, there's a lotof bad HR practitioners out
there.
People are just oh, you were agood receptionist, so you're
going to be a great HR person.
You get that all the time andsome do develop into a great HR
professional.
That's what happened to my wifewhen she worked at Target.
She started at 16 years old inwhat was called at the time Food
(44:45):
Avenue Express and they servedhot dogs, popcorn and shit like
that.
Now they got Starbucks in everyTarget.
But she ended up becomingcashier, cashier team leader,
guest service team leader andthen moved into HR.
Actually, first she did thecash handling, counting the
money.
She would have to come in atway early hours in the morning,
(45:06):
count the money and get thedeposits ready for the previous
day and things like that.
I forget what that job wascalled.
Then she moved into HR and sherocked HR for a while.
She stayed in HR with Targetfor a very long time but when
the economy turned down, theytold her they wanted her to do
all of her HR functions plusspend 20 hours a week working on
the floor.
(45:26):
And she said no, thank you,I'll get another job.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
That's a lot.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
All right, you want to go down a fun rabbit hole
really quick.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
I take it back Yep, hr professionals have the
highest turnover rate of allfunctions in corporate.
The corporate average is 11%turnover.
Hr professionals come in at14.6%.
I thought that the number oneturnover was going to be sales I
(46:04):
would think so they come in atnumber two they're just below
average wow and then they talkabout like why, and it's, what
is it inside?
Stress and visibility, remotework, pressures and then
emotional labor with limitedautonomy.
So yeah, I see.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
One of the things I love about my job.
Now I have unlimited autonomy,I can do anything I want.
Pretty much that's what I loveabout my job right now.
So, okay, two quick things I'mgoing to try and get in before
we wrap this thing up.
Lying candidates situation.
(46:45):
You know I started these shownotes to be our May 28th, I
think, episode recording, soanyways.
So I probably had this could betwo weeks before that, but
anyways, lying candidates Nowyou always hear all this
bullshit about recruiters lyingand cheating and whatever.
And I have a personal story Iwon't get into because of time
(47:08):
on lying recruiters.
But so ran into a situationrecently.
We put screening questions inour applicant tracking system so
the recruiter can look at itand she can take care of things.
So she loaded up a question andsays I understand that, due to
the nature of this work, remoteslash, hybrid work is not
available for this position.
(47:29):
Check yes or no.
The applicant checks yes, therecruiter in her question when
she does her screening.
I want to make sure youunderstand, because this work is
physically done at our clientsite.
Remote and hybrid work is notavailable.
Candidate says yep, got it.
Hiring manager interview.
Rinse and repeat, I read theinterview notes, because this
(47:51):
work's done at our client site.
We don't offer remote work.
Interviewee agrees Offer goesout, comes back two things.
A offer goes out, comes backtwo things.
A wants $20,000 more than theytold our recruiter initially and
she says I want to either workfully remote or hybrid, but no
more than two days a week in theoffice.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
The audacity to think they're just going to love me
so much.
They're going to, and weexplained not only that it's not
available but the why this workis physically done at a client
site.
You can't bring the client siteto your living room, or what
have you?
So we, we hit it one, two,three, four, three times
(48:33):
screening question, recruiter,hiring manager and then comes
back, but yeah, warren, they areprobably very special at what
they do and they probablydeserve an exception to do
exceptional work.
Yeah, but the work is at a.
There's a physical nature tothis work and it's not in your
(48:55):
living room.
It will never be in your livingroom, so anyways.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
So my final thing and this is another HR sort of this
turns into a rant.
I have the actual email infront of me that I received.
I'm going to try and edit thisas I read it.
I should have edited it before.
So I got an email asking aquestion which was discussed in
the meeting just the day beforeand they wrote I wanted to
(49:23):
request clarification on, inwhich we discussed in the
meeting the day before.
I don't believe it got answeredclearly or misunderstood.
It either didn't get answeredclearly or misunderstood.
Grammar people and thisparticular employee is the type
of employee that I know isabsolutely definitely going to
(49:43):
hold on to my email and they'regoing to say well, warren said
this and I have just intorunning through all these
scenarios in my head because Iknew they were going to try and
(50:05):
manipulate what I said intosomething that I didn't mean.
So I wanted to make explicitlysure my meaning could not be
mistaken out of any context thatit could, because I just know
that this is one of thedownsides of being in HR and
this is why people hate HR.
(50:25):
Because I've been there, I'vedone that.
Maybe if I was a rookie I wouldsay I'd just answer the
question in two sentences and bedone with it.
But I just know the games thatpeople play and I want to make
because, aha, I've got you.
You said this, it's in writing,and I don't care what's in
writing.
You misunderstood what I'msaying, just like I don't
(50:45):
believe it got answered clearlyor misunderstood.
Well, I don't believe it gotmisunderstood, it's just anyways
that was a fun thing.
But in HR you have to be on thedefense, you have to think like
that.
And answering that three-lineemail took me 90 minutes because
I was thinking, okay, how canthey manipulate, how can they
(51:08):
take this, how are they going tobe able to do this?
And, knock on wood, I haven'thad any.
They didn't reply to my emailonce.
I replied to them, so I think Idid my job.
But it's just like reallypeople it's, it's life Isn't
that hard.
Or just to stop making thingsmore difficult than they need to
(51:29):
be.
Do your job, that's what itcomes down to.
So it becomes happy.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
I just want to do a really quick one.
Yeah, we're both.
Listen, we missed a week.
We're both really quick one.
Yeah, listen, we missed a week,we're both.
Yeah, we got a lot.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
I've got a lot more stories in my show notes that I
I I'm probably pretty good fornext week or next episode too.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
So I was on Reddit and this is in Reddit, the
subreddit jobs, and somebody hadbeen interviewing for a job.
You reminded me by talkingabout the lying job candidate.
So, anyway, this, this personhad been interviewing for a job.
You reminded me by talkingabout the lying job candidate.
So, anyway, this person it's aguy, his name is Bart, which I
think is fantastic.
He said that he received anemail or an invitation for an
(52:12):
interview and he thenimmediately got an email that he
was not supposed to be CC'd onfrom the hiring manager saying I
thought we all agreed bart wasout, cancel his interview and
apologize.
So he was like shit so he's likehow do I respond to this?
Because this is awkward.
(52:33):
So he posted it to reddit andlike a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Respond you posted online?
Speaker 2 (52:38):
well, yes, because, honestly, the, the, the
community, did a fantastic job.
So today he reported back andhe said he composed an email and
he sent it back to all which Iloved, power move and basically
said hi all, I thought we allagreed Bart was in Winky face
(53:01):
emoji, but I'm sure that messagewasn't meant for me.
But no worries, no apologynecessary.
I appreciate the opportunity tointerview with the team and get
a feel for the role.
If you find yourself lookingfor someone whose skill set
includes a strong focus onawareness, attention, yada, yada
, feel free to reach out,wishing you all the best in your
(53:22):
search.
And I was like mic drop that isthe perfect response.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
It is, it absolutely is, and I bet you they're going
to remember him.
Yeah, and if there is anotheropportunity Now, if they're not
too embarrassed to hey Bart I'msorry about last time, but let's
not too embarrassed to hey Bart, let's stop.
You know I'm sorry about lasttime, but let's talk to you
again, type thing.
So no great, you know golf clapfor Bart.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
you know good job, good for you, bart, and honestly
, you're going to find a rolethat's better suited for you.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Man.
Anyway, I thought that was cute, and sometimes Reddit delivers.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
Yes, it does so.
Anyways, well, before we wrapthings up, we haven't thanked
our supporters Hallie, theoriginal Jaded HR rockstar, and
then Bill and Mike.
You can join them too bysupporting us on Patreon.
There's links in the show notes.
You can contact us any numberof ways.
Send us a text link in the shownotes is awesome.
(54:23):
So go ahead and try that.
I'd love to get some feedback,love to get some more reviews.
I didn't check this week, but Idid check last week and I
didn't have any new reviews.
So get us some reviews and wewill read them.
So let us know and, of course,spread the word.
You know, if we had recorded anepisode at the end of May, like
(54:44):
we were intended to, we came soclose, without another episode,
to breaking a monthly recordfor number of downloads.
If we had put out an episode, Ifeel as close to 100% confident
we would have broken a recordfor downloads if we had put out
that episode.
So just tell your friends, getthe word out and we will talk to
(55:05):
you.
In two weeks We'll have aregular episode and in three
weeks we will have the benefitsepisode of the Office.
So a lot to look forward tohere, and plus I still have half
a page of show notes that Itook over the last four weeks
that I can go back to.
So already doing some futurework, love it, yay.
(55:26):
Well, I want to thank theUnderscore Orchestra for using
their theme song Devil to Devil.
And then the voice artist atthe beginning is Andrew Kolba,
so now I can say, as always, I'mWarren, I'm Cece and we're here
helping you survive.
Hr1.
What the Fuck moment at a time.
The Fuck Bye.
Thank you.
Oh, waiting for cloud to startrecording.
Interesting, are we recording?
It didn't go so far.
Five, four, three, two, two oneit says it's recording okay,
yeah, all righty.
Welcome to Jaded HR to podcastby two HR professionals who want
(01:11):
to help you get through workday by saying everything you're
thinking, but say it out loud.
I'm Warren, I'm Cece, so wedidn't have an episode.
Two weeks ago somebody decidedthat they needed to spend five
days in the hospital and thatsomebody was me, so we did not
get the opportunity to record,but I have some really fun
(01:34):
hospital stories I want to sharebefore we get into the meat and
potatoes of our HR podcast.
I mentioned in the last episode.
We did that I ruined my wife'sMother's Day by being sick.
Well, we got to the root causeof it.
I had gallstones.
And not only did I havegallstones, I had one that
slipped out of the gallbladderand was blocking a duct in my
(01:55):
liver.
So I've been feeling like crapall day the Thursday before
Memorial Day weekend, and byfour or five o'clock in the
afternoon, as I'm getting readyto leave for work, I'm feeling
just shit warmed over.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
My stomach was hurting.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
My back was hurting, I was just, I was a wreck.
I texted my primary care doctorand I said hey, you know, we've
been talking.
I've been going to her for acouple of weeks and she was
diagnosing me with GERD butwanted to do a CT scan, which I
couldn't get until May 30th.
But this I don't know what thedate was of, the Thursday before
Memorial Day, but it was beforethe 30th, and I was like I just
(02:30):
texted her, I'm going to thehospital.
I said I can't do this anymoreand anyway.
So I go to the hospital and thefirst person sees me, the PA.
You know she's doing the test.
She's thinking GERD too.
So press down on your stump.
Because she said, I have thesymptoms of a gallbladder, but
when you press down on the liverit's supposed to hurt, and I
(02:50):
had no additional pain, nothing.
So she's like I don't know andshe goes this doesn't seem like
GERD, but it's probably theclosest thing.
Anyways, I got my CT scan therein the hospital and there it was
.
I had an angry gallbladder andone of the stones was out, and
so they admitted me.
I got my gallbladder removed onthe Friday, the next day,
Friday late afternoon, as I hadto squeeze me in.
(03:11):
And then, but that stone thatwas blocking the bile duct.
Oh, my liver is a wonderfulthing type thing that doesn't
have anything to do with mydrinking.
I asked multiple times and it'snot.
I don't have cirrhosis of theliver or anything, but it was.
The stone ended up fullyblocking this duct, and so I
(03:31):
started getting very jaundicedand my wife was calling me Homer
Simpson.
She said you're looking orangelike Homer Simpson and things
like that.
So well, the suck ass thingabout all this.
I needed the gallbladder cameout.
You know, quick and dirty.
But the general surgeon so well, the suck ass thing about all
this.
I needed the gallbladder cameout, you know quick and dirty.
But the general surgeon saysokay, you have the stone, it's
here.
He goes I've done the surgerybefore, I'll do it.
(03:54):
He's a general surgeon at thehospital.
He says I'll do it again.
And he says, however, if it wasme, I would want the GI doctor
doing it and not a generalsurgeon.
He says but I'm here allweekend and we're going to
monitor your blood work and ifyour liver enzymes get too high,
I'll go in and get it done,because we couldn't get a GI
(04:14):
doctor until after the holidayweekend, so until Tuesday.
So they're monitoring my liver.
Apparently, the gallstone canshift it, which it did, and I
got my enzymes back and I turnedback to a human being color
versus a Simpson color, andthings started getting better
for me once it shifted again.
But anyways, I had to spendfive days, six nights, in the
(04:36):
hospital, or six days, fivenights in the hospital, I should
say, and having absolutelynothing to do, and the TV didn't
work in the room I was in.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Even better.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, it was just God awful in so many ways, but I
got, like I said, got some fun,interesting stories.
So I was telling you all fair.
My first surgery on that Fridaywas scheduled for like 3.30 and
the doctor and all hisassistant come in and they're
talking okay, you're scheduledfor 3.30.
We're going to come, you'regoing to be taken down to the
(05:11):
operating room staging gangwayarea, whatever they call it, an
hour beforehand and all this I'mlike, okay, fine, All's good.
Well, at 12.30, I'm takingclasses online.
At 12.30, I started a timedonline quiz and it's I've only
had half hour to do the quiz.
(05:31):
Now, normally it only take 15,20 minutes.
It's not a big deal or anything, and but literally within
seconds of me hitting start onthe quiz, here comes everybody
and their mother to okay, we'regetting ready to take you down
to pre op and I'm like whoa, I'mat 3.30.
Give me 20 minutes.
I just started quiz.
She said, no, we're not givingyou 20 minutes or anything like
(05:54):
that.
And so, oh, here's the firstfunny thing that happened.
So there's all sorts of medicalprofessionals in there and a
medical transport person, theperson who's responsible for
wheeling you from your cart fromplace to place.
So I'm in there and they saywell, she goes, can you get up
and use the restroom?
And I said, yeah, I can do that.
She goes okay, empty yourbladder and all that.
(06:15):
So I go use the restroom, I sitback down and she goes okay,
now we need to do a scan of yourbladder and make sure it's
empty so we still don't have togive you a catheter.
Okay, I signed the consent formallowing students to be in there
and this one student and shewas she was very sweet, very
funny.
She goes Ooh, she's like horseshack from welcome back.
Ooh, I want to do the bladderscan.
(06:36):
I want to do the bladder scan.
And the head nurse goes okay,okay, here it is.
Bam, the sheets come off my bed, bam, my, my gown is up to my
neck and there I am, like withair, like I've I'd never, in the
entire time I was there, I hadthat many people in my room in
all my, all my glory, and she'sscanning my bladder and she's
(06:58):
having a good old time.
And she goes I got it.
I got it and I was okay, justdidn't have any care for my
modesty or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
No.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So I mean, it was just whip down the bed sheet and
whip up my gown and I'm like,okay, whatever.
It was funny in hindsight, butI was a little irritated at the
time and things like that.
So anyways, like I said, I'dstarted the exam.
I didn't have luckily I didn'thave to get a catheter.
(07:30):
So I told them I'm sittingthere as they're wheeling me
down from my room to the pre-oparea.
I'm sitting there taking a quizas they're wheeling me around.
I'm using my phone as a mobilehotspot and I got it done.
I got an 80, the lowest gradeI've received all you know grad
school time.
But I'm like I'll take it.
I'll take the 80.
I was under much duress at thatpoint.
So that was the day.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So dedicated.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, yeah.
And then I got out of surgeryby the time I came to and got
less, I think, because aftersurgery they were keeping me on
morphine like every three hours.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
They're like oh, you need more morphine.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I wasn't asking they're, they're just giving
you're like oh sure I hadanother assignment due that was
due before midnight and I gotthat done, got an okay grade on
that as well.
I submitted it like 11 55 pm,so did all that.
But the next that was friday,saturday in the hospital nothing
, nothing to do, I waiting.
(08:24):
You know my?
They're taking my blood twice aday and they're coming in every
two hours to get all my vitals.
I'm like you know what?
I've got this wonderful littlesmartwatch.
It takes my blood pressure, ittakes my heart rate, it takes my
temperature, all the thingsyou're getting.
Why don't you just connect tomy watch for me and don't have
to come and bother me?
But I was checking.
(08:46):
My watch was pretty damn closeto the results they were getting
with their equipment.
It wasn't perfect, but it wasprobably close enough for
anything else.
But yeah, they did that.
So Saturday, sunday, monday, inthe hospital.
Oh, while I was in the hospitalI was on a clear liquid diet, so
let me back up.
Thursday morning I ate mynormal breakfast, everything's
(09:08):
hunky-dory.
Midday I wasn't feeling well,so I didn't eat my lunch.
I didn't eat a lunch.
And then, thursday evening,they finally decided they're
going to schedule me for surgery.
They didn't know what time, soI wasn't allowed to eat or drink
anything Thursday night and allday Friday till three o'clock
and I really didn't care becausemy stomach was not feeling that
well.
(09:28):
But Friday late evening I got myfirst meal, consisting of
chicken broth and yellow jello,and at the hospital they give
you like a little receipt howmany calories your meal is, and
so that meal was like 110calories.
So since Thursday I'vebasically consumed 110 calories.
(09:50):
The next three days mybreakfast is a breakfast, the
next three days vegetable broth,lunch chicken broth and dinner
beef broth, all with yellowjello, but at dinner I did get
an Italian ice.
So I I was consuming like lessthan 600 calories a day for
(10:10):
those six days in the hospitaland and then, of course, tuesday
for the second surgery, Icouldn't eat anything again all
day.
I lost eight pounds in thehospital.
I would not recommend it as aas a weight loss clinic, but I
did.
I have kept it off since then,but I lost eight pounds in the
hospital.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's like the Dr Now diet from my 600-pound life.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
That is extreme.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Okay, we're up here.
My wife is obsessed with allthose weight loss, those shows.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
It's brain rot.
It's brain rot.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
The 600-pound life which I can watch.
I think it's fine.
I love Dr Now the way he saysyou're lying, you gained 15
pounds.
You weren't following my diet.
Yes, I am.
Yes, I am Okay.
I love Dr Now.
He just calls them out Herother favorite show, which she's
actually downstairs watching itright now.
Every Tuesday we record shewatches the Thousand Pound
(11:03):
Sisters.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Okay, I see I haven't watched that.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Oh gosh, it is human trash on parade to the extreme.
Yeah, I can't stand that show.
And when she's watching it andI'm in the room, she calls me a
TV talker.
I'm just like what the fuck?
These people cannot literallybe that stupid and yet they
prove me wrong week in, week out.
(11:29):
It's like how stupid can we be?
And I don't have these.
It's yeah, it's, it's brain rotand their brains have rotted if
they had one to begin with.
It is.
And she watches all the all theweight loss shows or or
whatever you want to call them.
She's watching them all and thethousand pound roomies she just
started watching.
I'm like, oh my, there's a lot.
(11:50):
There's so many of those things, but anyways, let's see.
So Tuesday I had my secondsurgery.
That went really well.
It's so funny.
They put me under that Twilightanesthetic and the
anesthesiologist is in there andshe's in there.
Okay, we're gonna give you some.
Really, she's, this is what shesaid.
We're gonna give you somereally good shit, man, and
(12:12):
you're gonna have great dreams.
Through this whole process.
You just sit back and enjoy itand relax and enjoy the ride and
I'm like I was like I've beenunder twilight anesthesia before
, like, and she goes no, this isthe good stuff, this is pro
fall, pro fall or whatever.
She goes, this is good.
I'm like, okay, she's like.
It's like she's my drug dealer.
And and then all of a suddenshe goes.
(12:35):
I'm going to start in three,two, one, and then all of a
sudden my arm just startedburning, like I said, wow, this
hurts.
She goes, that's how you knowit's good.
And she goes in 30 secondsyou're going to be in la-la land
and you won't care.
Nice, it was good.
During the procedure, I had wilddreams.
I was okay.
My wife, you know theanesthesiologist came up.
(12:58):
How were your dreams?
She's like into this.
I wonder if she put a littleLSD or something in my mix there
, because she was into this,very passionate about her work.
How was your and how are yourdreams?
I said, yeah, I was.
I was like in a Harry Pottermovie and I was riding the
broomstick ramp.
I wasn't playing Quidditch andI was just flying around
(13:19):
Hogwarts on my broom.
And she said that's so cool.
And she goes.
I told you to have good dreamsand I'm like, yeah, she was into
it.
And my wife, who hates?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
online.
Honestly, you want youranesthesiologist to be into it
because they're basically, theyhave your life in their hands.
You want them to be real intoit.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
She was.
She was hilarious.
But my wife is making fun of mefor having a Harry Potter dream
.
I'm like I don't choose what.
I'm dreaming that I'm ridingaround a broomstick around
Hogwarts and my wife says oh myGod, you're such a nerd.
I'm like, yeah, you've knownthat for 30 some odd years now.
So, anyways, that's my storyand that's why we didn't record
two weeks ago.
But hopefully we will be backon schedule and finally have the
(14:03):
benefits episode of the officein a couple of weeks for you
three weeks, yeah yeah, so.
So how was your past month beensince?
Speaker 2 (14:12):
oh my gosh I don't know it's been busy.
My mom was radioactive for awhile so she had like some
nuclear treatment and then shehad to stay downstairs in our
basement we have a nice basement, it's not like she was living
in a basement.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Lock her in a basement.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
But she was like down there and she lived down there
for a week until she could beamongst other humans.
So there's that.
Other than that, I traveled forwork.
So my new company went toCalifornia, went there for a
week, met my team in person andit was a fun time.
I really feel good about thisteam I'm on.
(14:53):
I'm super excited, Cool.
Very warm, very welcoming.
It was great.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
That's half the battle.
When you meet the team and youget involved and you say this is
a cool team, a group, I want tobe involved with that.
That's like half the battleright there.
So yeah.
Cool, cool.
So we've done 15 minutes andhaven't even discussed the HR,
so let's dive into some HR.
Oh my gosh, so great.
(15:19):
And this comes to us from Jamie, from HR best besties.
She posted this to instagramabout the the more drama sherm
is having about their annualconference.
So let's rewind a year ago, to2024, when jason sudeikis was
supposed to be the keynotespeaker ah, yes and he backed
(15:43):
out at the 11th hour so he couldwatch Caitlin Clark play a game
and things like that.
So they got Al Roker to fill inat the last minute, which I
thought was funny, interesting,but they got Al Roker to fill in
and he is a funny person.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Your future is so bright You're going to need
stage.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, let's now fast forward to 2025.
Back in May, they announcedthat the keynote speaker was
going to be Bradley Cooper and,yeah, it seems pretty good.
Well, all of a sudden, he had ascheduling conflict.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Oh man.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And on top of that, who's replacing him?
Jason Sudeikis is coming back.
Oh, it's full circle, it's fullcircle.
And then the announcement suremade was yep, we're trying this
again.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
That is too funny.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, I'm like, why would you want?
Unless they got like bargainbasement pricing for him, why
would you want him back afterjust oh yeah, yeah, your
conference I committed to I'drather go see a basketball game
when I'm a multimillionaire.
I can fly to whatever cityCaitlin Clark is in at any given
(16:59):
time and watch as manybasketball games as I want.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Well, remember, I had a theory that it was his silent
protest of all the stuff thatSherm was announcing with equity
, diversity and inclusion.
I thought because I needeverything to have a plot.
I thought maybe he got awhisper of it and backed out to
(17:22):
go watch Caitlin play a WNBAplayer.
That's my conspiracy theory.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And it makes sense because Sherm at that time was
just stepping in it left, right,up and down, supposedly.
Like I said, when I saw JCTspeaking at the Virginia Sherm
conference, he was very directand open and talking about it
and he said my people tell menot to talk about this, but I'm
going to talk about it anyway.
I don't know, but anyways itwas the plan.
(17:51):
And removing the equity yeah,the equity.
I can't remember what theyremoved now.
They removed one of the letters.
Maybe I should have done somemore homework.
They removed one of the letters.
Maybe I should have done somemore homework, they should.
They removed one of the lettersI think it was equity from dei
and therefore caused a shit show.
(18:11):
But jct says they were ahead ofthe curve and they saw the
writing on the wall, given somecourt things and stuff like that
.
So if you want to give them abit of it up, maybe they were
ahead of the curve, maybe theyweren't, maybe they were just
shaking things up and thingsfell in the right places.
I do not know yeah anyways.
Yeah, sherm and if you have, ifyou aren't already listened to
(18:32):
hr besties is they're going tobe covering the sherm trials in
colorado.
All three of them are going tobe there and in the courtroom
listening to the the trials.
So that's going to be prettyinteresting to follow.
More drama, drama, drama aroundSHRM.
So, yeah, let's see what's theunder over, I wonder, to Vegas.
It's in Vegas again, isn't it?
(18:53):
No it's in Vegas or San Diego,where is it?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Oh, it's San Diego.
I think it's 50-50.
Everything is either in Vegasor or san diego or new orleans
yeah, so they're gonna be in sandiego.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So what's the, what's the under over for jason
sudeikis showing up is?
He'll show up this time yeah, I, I think you can't not show up
after ditching us the last timeit was or ditching, sure, not
that ditching us is.
I'm not going.
I'm going to hit the registernow.
How much is this, this shitshow, to attend?
Let's see here's why.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
To attend in person oh, showing all these people
with their swag bags you knowwhat I always appreciate about
these conferences that close tothe registration page they will
have a basically building abusiness case for your boss to
let you go.
Yes, I'm actually just clickedon that for your boss to let you
go.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yes, I actually just clicked on that.
Convince your boss to make acase for attending SHRM 2025.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And I got to say honestly no notes Perfect, like
that's the barrier that peoplehave.
So help them get over thebarrier.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, it's just so.
Oh, here's the rates page.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Ooh can I guess?
Okay, member pricing, standardprices.
Okay, I'm gonna guess, I'mgonna guess, I'm gonna guess
standard pricing and I'm gonnaguess standard pricing is gonna
be 1300 oh no, you're.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
You're low, higher, higher, higher higher.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Higher oh my gosh, is it 17?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Higher, higher higher .
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Oh my gosh, Is it breaking two?
Is it two grand?
Higher, higher, higher.
Get the fuck out of here For aSHRM conference.
Oh my gosh, 2,500?
Higher, higher, higher.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
No, oh my gosh 2,500?
.
Higher, higher, higher.
No 28.45 is the standard price.
Now, the early bird special was22.95, but they're sold out of
the early bird.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Okay so, but if you want to turn that's so cost
prohibitive.
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Well, virtual.
You want to take a shot at howmuch the standard price of a
virtual is oh, what is itknocking?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
like $200 off of it exactly $200.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
So, okay, you're spinning.
Let's just be real about it.
You're spending $3,000 toattend, probably spending so
bare minimum 500, unless you'rein the San Diego area probably
bare minimum 500 for airfare andthen hotel for so many nights
(21:34):
that's got to be over a thousand.
So you're you're $4,000 in veryquickly and I have a hell of a
lot I would rather do with$4,000 than go to Sherm.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, you know it's funny.
I was while I was in Californiaand my like the team, we were
like talking, and the one of ourteam members went to PSYOP,
which is the society forindustrial organizational
psychology, and she went to thatand that was freaking
beneficial when she came backwith a whole bunch of stuff
(22:08):
about what's going on in theindustry, stuff like that.
And, yeah, like I would love.
I would love to give psyop atry, because I know like I feel
like sherm is just a.
It's just like we've discussedit before.
We don't need to beat a deadhorse about it, but it's just
like they don't provide thatmuch insight for what they offer
(22:30):
.
And then I always feel like I'mbeing sold at and I think with
psyop it's more like science,it's more scientific and it's
more data driven and stuff likethat.
So I think it's going to beless touchy-feely, less fluffy
and more hard-hitting data,hard-hitting science, and I
(22:53):
would love to give PSYOP a try.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
And I forgot I did see this as well.
Other keynote speakers aregoing to be Jenna Fisher and
Angela Kinsley from the office.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Oh my God, I would love to go just for that
actually.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I take everything back.
Sure, I'm going to throw outsome free tickets.
I would love to go meet them.
Thank you, you're the best.
You're the best of the day ofthe seminar, and last year I
started to go down the rabbithole and try and classify them
as touchy, feely or substantive.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
And I didn't get that far.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, there's just too many to look at them all.
But yeah, I, just this person,owner of this, feels right.
That seems like that could be asexual harassment case waiting
to happen with it.
Oh, this person, professionalspeaker at her name, speaks in
there.
I just love some of thesepeople that.
(24:00):
Anyways, it'll be interestingIf they put one in my backyard,
even at $3,000,.
I don't think I'd go at $3,000.
I, I don't think I may and Idon't think I'd go at $3,000,
even if it was in you know mytown and I didn't have to
commute or get a hotel oranything like that, I was like,
nah, just don't, you could getlike you know what for that much
money you can get like threenights at a really decent resort
(24:23):
.
Oh I, I tell you what my wifeand I, next month, are going to.
We're going to Costa Rica.
We're going for eight days.
We're staying in anall-inclusive resort, airfare
hotel and everything, ourexcursions.
We haven't even hit $5,000 yetand that's two of us going for
(24:49):
eight days out of country andwe're doing something we want to
do.
So there you go.
Our budget is not.
Actually.
Our budget was $5,000.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
We're below that, including our excursions and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
So new conference idea I'm going to call it free
range conferencing and you get acouple really good audio books
and a couple really goodpodcasts and you just go to a
resort for a week.
Yes, yes.
I'm not listening to anythingin HR.
Welcome to our little sex zone.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, that's the business case to get your
company to pay for it.
So you have to do some work.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, oh, gosh, rearrange conferencing, that
could catch on.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I'm going to trademark that one quick, I know
right.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Oh boy.
So anyways, that's.
Yeah, that's.
I do recognize some of thenames of presenters here the
Sherm but yeah, I just couldn'tdo that.
But I bet you, of these 300sessions that they're having or
whatever I could, probablyhopefully I'd be able to fill up
my schedule with justsubstantive things.
(26:02):
I would hope I would hope so.
Anyways, if you attend, havefun, give us some feedback what
you're doing, when is it?
It's usually like I don't evenknow.
So you had something to coverbefore we moved to another.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So there's an article that was released today by work
life, which is just an onlinemagazine, because paper
magazines are dead, anyway.
So basically they're talkingabout Gen Zs and how Gen Z
employees are opting out ofthose middle management
positions.
(26:40):
So your managers, your seniormanagers and they're doing it
out of work-life balance buthaving like a values-driven life
.
So a lot of them are justrejecting those leadership roles
.
So the article then went on tobasically talk about how this
comes to fruition.
And you have a lot of peoplewho just want to be in that
(27:02):
specialist zone and just reallyfocus their career on becoming
more of a subject matter expert.
How the organization shouldbasically plan for that to
happen, because you'll have kindof a small, like a subset I
don't want to say small, but youknow you have like a subset of
individuals who may not even beinterested in leadership roles.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, I've heard that .
I've heard it more aboutwork-life balance and not
wanting responsibilities andthings like that.
But I think what's concerningabout that is, right now, the
boomers they're almost allretired out of the workplace.
We have a few, but not many,left in our workplace, but
they're retiring and it's goodfor them.
(27:49):
And then you've got the Xers,the me's, out there.
I'm looking very desperatelyforward to, and remember,
generation X is the smallest ofall these generations, we're
just the smallest.
So there's not many of us, tobegin with, that are in those
leadership, to be in thoseleadership roles.
And I know some people that areXers that are starting to
(28:10):
retire already.
I'm severely jealous, butthey're in that point in their
life where they can do that.
I'll be working until I'm 67and a half or whatever it is.
But yeah, I think that we needpeople to be able to step up
because leadership and that'swhere maybe some leadership
development and training andonce again going back to maybe
(28:31):
identifying hypos in yourorganization Maybe you have what
it takes to be a good leader,you're very well organized,
you're charismatic, you canfollow through and things like
that Maybe you could be a leaderand start developing that
talent.
Because I've heard those thingsthat, oh, I'd rather not be in
management so I can have mywork-life balance.
(28:51):
Or maybe they're like I said,they're looking for values-based
organizations and things likethat.
It's just scary.
But I mean, well, everythingwill over, adapt and overcome.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
But wow yeah.
So here's what they said thathere's some considerations and a
couple of them I think arepretty good.
So it basically says to rethinkcareer progression.
So don't force everyone who isa top performer into managing
others.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Build dual career paths Awesome.
I can't agree with that more.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
A hundred and 27%.
Yeah, so, and that was the onething that, at a previous
organization, we focused on.
It's okay if you don't want tobe a manager, and here's how you
can grow your career, and wecalled it like the SME path, so
like, if you want to be like asubject matter expert within the
company, then here's ways thatyou can develop and we encourage
(29:43):
that, because you can't havenot everyone can be a leader.
So there's that.
And then they also saidredesign development.
So this is what I thought wasinteresting Instead of focusing
in on the leader as a positionor as a role or as a title,
encourage project-basedleadership, so not just formal
(30:04):
hierarchies.
So put people in charge ofprojects and make them that
leader of the project, insteadof having them have the title.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, and it is so I don't know what the right word
is.
Important not to force peopleinto leadership positions.
We're doing the office thing.
Michael Scott was a greatindividual contributor.
He was so good.
They promote him to managerwhere he sucks, he sucks.
(30:42):
That happens so often that it'salmost a joke now that, oh you
know, this person is such agreat individual contributor we
need to make them a manager.
And they can't do it.
Well, you might have thatmediocre performer, but they
have the innate leadershipskills.
And I do think leadership is,you know, like they say in
sports you can't teach speed.
(31:03):
I think you can develop andenhance people's abilities, but
if you don't have it to startwith, you don't have it.
And so those people that maybethey have great organizational
skills, planning skills, startdeveloping those people that
maybe they could be strugglingas an individual contributor
(31:24):
because they're more big pictureand they get, they feel they
get weeded down by the minutedetails of an individual
contributor has to do and yeah,businesses and hr have forced
that for so long and I thinkthat's probably one of the
biggest things that need tochange.
And as much as everybody talksabout it, it's still happening
(31:45):
rampantly.
And then again there's peoplewho want to be promoted into
leadership roles.
That can't handle it.
I worked somewhere we hadsomeone been a long-time
employee, great individualcontributor, did some little
minor leading on things and sothey decided they were going to
give him a shot as a leader whenhe had to lead a team.
(32:07):
Oh my gosh, it was a dumpsterfire from the word go and I like
the person.
I felt bad for them.
But they also realized that ittook two tries and they said, no
, I don't like this, I don'twant to be a leader anymore.
I'm like yeah, thank you, yousaved us from a hard decision or
a difficult conversation, butanyways, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, it's funny.
So I was looking at this onebullet where they're talking
about redesigning what theleadership structure could look
like and really focusing onproject-based leadership rather
than a formal hierarchy.
And I want to say, like 10years ago I was working at a
company and we had a fairly likefairly large for most companies
(32:54):
, but we had like a very largetalent management team and our
leader at the time was exitingthe company and we were in a
stage of waiting to hear who'slike our replacement leader was.
And one one guy on the teamsaid we should just do like a
round Robin, Like every monthsomeone on the team gets to lead
(33:17):
the team and blah, blah, blahand everyone he's like we can
make it like a reality show.
And everyone on the team laughedCause they're like that is so
like weird and dumb.
No, I thought it was brilliant.
And now the funny thing is islike I thought it was brilliant,
as if it was like funny, butthen, as I'm thinking about it,
(33:38):
I was like things like thatactually sound fun.
And I know we think about it interms of career development for
an individual, of like, oh,let's give them like a project
to manage for their development.
And this is saying, if youdon't have the bench for leaders
because let's say, in this, inthis hypothesis, we have an
(33:59):
entire generation who wants toavoid these positions entirely
to save their mental health andstuff if you don't have the
bench for leaders or you don'thave the leaders, that's like
kind of an interesting way to goabout it, because you do need
someone to make sure things aregetting done.
So, yeah, I just think that'sinteresting.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
I think, essentially, I've been thinking about it.
If you're going around, you'retaking turns leading, if you're
all developed, if you start withdeveloping, okay, here's our
goal, here's where we want to be, here's our goal.
And everybody take a certainamount of time a week or so
leading.
That I can see that beingbeneficial, as long as but
(34:41):
everybody in the team has towork together, because you're
going to get that person, whothey're going to be in, over
their head from the word go, andthe rest of the team's still
going to have to to pick up.
And but yeah, as I'm digestingit, I'm thinking that could be
in the right circumstance, withthe right people.
That could be a really goodthing.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
But yeah, interesting , it's funny that you said that
because it also says that, forthis to work, organizational
structures should be likeflattened and really based on
trust, because the whole thingworks on constant communication,
constant collaboration and,yeah, so to your point, like it
(35:25):
has to work in a very open,trusting and collaborative
environment.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
And communication is going to be more important than
ever with that, because, asyou're doing the leadership
handoff, you know you're handingthe leadership baton over to me
for next week to communicate.
Ok, here's where we are tocommunicate.
Okay, here's where we are, butit's not just at the handoff
time, but complete transparencyand everything, because if
(35:52):
you're all quote unquote leadersat some point you can't.
Holy crap, nobody told me aboutthis.
I got sandbagged.
You know what's?
You know?
Yeah, well, this is.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
This is saying that it's not like a time-based thing
.
Like this is you're the leaderof running the engagement survey
for the organization that'syour baby, and like you can pull
people as resources on the teamas you need and direct them as
needed.
You, on the other hand, you'llbe doing like performance
management and dipping out thatway, so everyone kind of has
(36:23):
they're all like little, they'reall like project managers and
then, when they're not focusingon leading their one project
like their main project, they'replaying as a specialist on
other projects.
Oh my god, I love this.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I'm kind of nerding out time to write a
self-published book and get onthe speaker.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Let's see.
No, I do like the idea.
There.
You're leading me into anarticle I read on LinkedIn and I
don't have the data.
I copied and pasted it fromLinkedIn and it says three days
ago then and I couldn't tell youwhy I copied and pasted this.
So this comes to us fromJennifer McClure and so she
(37:10):
wrote this thing.
She goes HR.
This might sting.
Dr John Sullivan recentlypublished a scathing list of
failures that expose what isreally happening in many HR
departments, and the stats arehard to ignore.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
So I'm going to go down these stats.
I can't wait.
I'm waiting with bated breath.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, exactly, hr has a diversity problem.
Stat number one 71% ofprofessionals are women and 65%
identify as white.
Okay, Okay are women and 65%identify as white.
Okay, 71% is women.
I totally get, as I've workedwith like three men in my career
, not that many.
65% is white.
(37:51):
I don't know if I agree withthat, but where I live is one of
the most racially diverse areasin the country and I don't know
, maybe you go to middle Americawhere everybody's as white as
the wind-driven, snow and stufflike that.
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
I will say I believe that could be real, I think
that's probably real.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
And now I'm curious.
So I'm like let me ask therobot.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Oh, let's chat.
Gbt say oh, I'll go on to thenext stat.
Only 46% of executives perceiveHR as contributing strategic
value.
Okay, I don't buy that.
I've worked places where I feelHR didn't have all the respect
they deserve, but I don't thinkHR was ever perceived as not
(38:44):
contributing a strategic value.
Even in the worst of placesI've been, I don't think that
that's the case.
But then again, a lot of theseHR pros they're the fuzzy
sweater should be a kindergartenteacher.
Let's all get along and have apizza party type thing.
And there's a lot of those outthere and you just go to a
(39:05):
showroom conference and you'llsee them in droves and you know
they should be in HR.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I think, for the most part, I've been lucky enough to
work at companies where HR isseen as a strategic partner.
Yeah, I worked at one wherethey were not.
We were actually called profitsucking overhead, you know.
But I don't.
I think again, I feel verylucky to have worked at decent
(39:32):
companies and I do want to letyou know that, just digging into
it just a little bit, those,those seem to be correct, those
demographics seem to align.
Okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Interesting.
Well, here's a fun next statfor that 70% of employees say
they don't trust HR.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Okay, yep.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
And you see the anti-HR and you see all these
people who just have some stickup their ass about HR and I
loved when Jamie was on she goes.
Just because your uncle gotfired for grabbing Sally's ass
once upon a time doesn't mean HRis the problem or whatever.
She said something to thatextent when she was on board
(40:17):
with us.
Hr is not the problem in thatinstance.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yeah, yeah, well, we're the problem in that
instance.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Well, we're the messengers.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
We're the messengers.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Because people somehow also think that HR are
like the decision makers,especially let's talk about like
termination or pay, becausethose are the things people are
the most sensitive about.
But they just kind of feel likeHR because they're the ones
that are telling power.
They have all the power andit's like no, by the time it
gets to hr's desk it has.
(40:47):
It has been come an issue likeyeah, and honestly it's a lot of
the things that have that go onall the business decisions.
We're probably part of it, orat least we consult on it, but
at the end of the day, a lot ofthings are like leadership
decisions.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
But I still don't see a reasonwhy people would say they don't
trust HR.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
They've been watching too much TV.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
They've been reading too much anti-HR or anti-work
Reddit posts and things likethat.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Just think of who terminates people when layoffs
happen or who's like standing inyour way to get a promotion,
like it can't be your completelyinept manager who can't give
you proper feedback so you candevelop.
It has to be the HR person.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
HR said I couldn't give you more than a 1% raise.
This year.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Oh HR said Grow a backbone, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
When HR says something, when they say HR says
you can almost guarantee HRdidn't say shit.
Oh, when you hear that HR saysthis, you know I tell you how
many times, and that's one ofthe stories I have for later,
but I'll probably get to thatone today at least.
Now here's one I really wantedyour feedback on.
(42:09):
This is the final stat thatJennifer quoted Dr Sullivan on.
A staggering 90% of individualL&D programs fail to achieve
their intended outcomes 90% 90%.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
That number seems ridiculous.
I will say this I think thestat is that you only remember
10% of what you learned from anin-person session or a
point-in-time training.
Okay, so we can flip thatnumber and we can then say, oh,
(42:46):
90% of all training is horrible,but that just means that
whoever is doing that trainingis not doing a good job.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Or maybe the training is not right for the audience,
or maybe the issue isn't atraining issue, it's a
leadership issue.
Yeah, that blew me away.
Well, jennifer goes on.
That's not a good look,especially for a function
responsible for driving culture,capability and leadership.
(43:19):
And to top it off and here'sanother stat HR has the highest
turnover rate of any corporatefunction.
Linkedin data shows HR'sturnover is 38% higher than the
corporate average.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
I'm going to call BS on those stats.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I agree, my time where I'm at now.
The entire accountingdepartment has turned over more
than once there and that's notuncommon, but I, you know
average person's now saying whatit's staying at a job of what
they say approximately threeyears now I'm above that and
it's interesting.
So, anyways, someone going backto someone replied based on the
(44:01):
work we've been doing at hiscompany, I think human resources
professionals have a choice tomake A quit.
If you believe HR is a joke,it's time to get out of the
profession.
Don't quite quit, just quit.
Or B transform those who areadding strategic value or want
to.
I implore you to continue thefight, to fight, et cetera.
(44:22):
So it goes on from there, butHR is not the problem generally
speaking.
Now, like I said, there's a lotof bad HR practitioners out
there.
People are just oh, you were agood receptionist, so you're
going to be a great HR person.
You get that all the time andsome do develop into a great HR
professional.
That's what happened to my wifewhen she worked at Target.
She started at 16 years old inwhat was called at the time Food
(44:45):
Avenue Express and they servedhot dogs, popcorn and shit like
that.
Now they got Starbucks in everyTarget.
But she ended up becomingcashier, cashier team leader,
guest service team leader andthen moved into HR.
Actually, first she did thecash handling, counting the
money.
She would have to come in atway early hours in the morning,
(45:06):
count the money and get thedeposits ready for the previous
day and things like that.
I forget what that job wascalled.
Then she moved into HR and sherocked HR for a while.
She stayed in HR with Targetfor a very long time but when
the economy turned down, theytold her they wanted her to do
all of her HR functions plusspend 20 hours a week working on
the floor.
(45:26):
And she said no, thank you,I'll get another job.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
That's a lot.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
All right, you want to go down a fun rabbit hole
really quick.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
I take it back Yep, hr professionals have the
highest turnover rate of allfunctions in corporate.
The corporate average is 11%turnover.
Hr professionals come in at14.6%.
I thought that the number oneturnover was going to be sales I
(46:04):
would think so they come in atnumber two they're just below
average wow and then they talkabout like why, and it's, what
is it inside?
Stress and visibility, remotework, pressures and then
emotional labor with limitedautonomy.
So yeah, I see.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
One of the things I love about my job.
Now I have unlimited autonomy,I can do anything I want.
Pretty much that's what I loveabout my job right now.
So, okay, two quick things I'mgoing to try and get in before
we wrap this thing up.
Lying candidates situation.
(46:45):
You know I started these shownotes to be our May 28th, I
think, episode recording, soanyways.
So I probably had this could betwo weeks before that, but
anyways, lying candidates Nowyou always hear all this
bullshit about recruiters lyingand cheating and whatever.
And I have a personal story Iwon't get into because of time
(47:08):
on lying recruiters.
But so ran into a situationrecently.
We put screening questions inour applicant tracking system so
the recruiter can look at itand she can take care of things.
So she loaded up a question andsays I understand that, due to
the nature of this work, remoteslash, hybrid work is not
available for this position.
(47:29):
Check yes or no.
The applicant checks yes, therecruiter in her question when
she does her screening.
I want to make sure youunderstand, because this work is
physically done at our clientsite.
Remote and hybrid work is notavailable.
Candidate says yep, got it.
Hiring manager interview.
Rinse and repeat, I read theinterview notes, because this
(47:51):
work's done at our client site.
We don't offer remote work.
Interviewee agrees Offer goesout, comes back two things.
A offer goes out, comes backtwo things.
A wants $20,000 more than theytold our recruiter initially and
she says I want to either workfully remote or hybrid, but no
more than two days a week in theoffice.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (48:12):
The audacity to think they're just going to love me
so much.
They're going to, and weexplained not only that it's not
available but the why this workis physically done at a client
site.
You can't bring the client siteto your living room, or what
have you?
So we, we hit it one, two,three, four, three times
(48:33):
screening question, recruiter,hiring manager and then comes
back, but yeah, warren, they areprobably very special at what
they do and they probablydeserve an exception to do
exceptional work.
Yeah, but the work is at a.
There's a physical nature tothis work and it's not in your
(48:55):
living room.
It will never be in your livingroom, so anyways.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
So my final thing and this is another HR sort of this
turns into a rant.
I have the actual email infront of me that I received.
I'm going to try and edit thisas I read it.
I should have edited it before.
So I got an email asking aquestion which was discussed in
the meeting just the day beforeand they wrote I wanted to
(49:23):
request clarification on, inwhich we discussed in the
meeting the day before.
I don't believe it got answeredclearly or misunderstood.
It either didn't get answeredclearly or misunderstood.
Grammar people and thisparticular employee is the type
of employee that I know isabsolutely definitely going to
(49:43):
hold on to my email and they'regoing to say well, warren said
this and I have just intorunning through all these
scenarios in my head because Iknew they were going to try and
(50:05):
manipulate what I said intosomething that I didn't mean.
So I wanted to make explicitlysure my meaning could not be
mistaken out of any context thatit could, because I just know
that this is one of thedownsides of being in HR and
this is why people hate HR.
(50:25):
Because I've been there, I'vedone that.
Maybe if I was a rookie I wouldsay I'd just answer the
question in two sentences and bedone with it.
But I just know the games thatpeople play and I want to make
because, aha, I've got you.
You said this, it's in writing,and I don't care what's in
writing.
You misunderstood what I'msaying, just like I don't
(50:45):
believe it got answered clearlyor misunderstood.
Well, I don't believe it gotmisunderstood, it's just anyways
that was a fun thing.
But in HR you have to be on thedefense, you have to think like
that.
And answering that three-lineemail took me 90 minutes because
I was thinking, okay, how canthey manipulate, how can they
(51:08):
take this, how are they going tobe able to do this?
And, knock on wood, I haven'thad any.
They didn't reply to my emailonce.
I replied to them, so I think Idid my job.
But it's just like reallypeople it's, it's life Isn't
that hard.
Or just to stop making thingsmore difficult than they need to
(51:29):
be.
Do your job, that's what itcomes down to.
So it becomes happy.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
I just want to do a really quick one.
Yeah, we're both.
Listen, we missed a week.
We're both really quick one.
Yeah, listen, we missed a week,we're both.
Yeah, we got a lot.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
I've got a lot more stories in my show notes that I
I I'm probably pretty good fornext week or next episode too.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
So I was on Reddit and this is in Reddit, the
subreddit jobs, and somebody hadbeen interviewing for a job.
You reminded me by talkingabout the lying job candidate.
So, anyway, this, this personhad been interviewing for a job.
You reminded me by talkingabout the lying job candidate.
So, anyway, this person it's aguy, his name is Bart, which I
think is fantastic.
He said that he received anemail or an invitation for an
(52:12):
interview and he thenimmediately got an email that he
was not supposed to be CC'd onfrom the hiring manager saying I
thought we all agreed bart wasout, cancel his interview and
apologize.
So he was like shit so he's likehow do I respond to this?
Because this is awkward.
(52:33):
So he posted it to reddit andlike a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Respond you posted online?
Speaker 2 (52:38):
well, yes, because, honestly, the, the, the
community, did a fantastic job.
So today he reported back andhe said he composed an email and
he sent it back to all which Iloved, power move and basically
said hi all, I thought we allagreed Bart was in Winky face
(53:01):
emoji, but I'm sure that messagewasn't meant for me.
But no worries, no apologynecessary.
I appreciate the opportunity tointerview with the team and get
a feel for the role.
If you find yourself lookingfor someone whose skill set
includes a strong focus onawareness, attention, yada, yada
, feel free to reach out,wishing you all the best in your
(53:22):
search.
And I was like mic drop that isthe perfect response.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
It is, it absolutely is, and I bet you they're going
to remember him.
Yeah, and if there is anotheropportunity Now, if they're not
too embarrassed to hey Bart I'msorry about last time, but let's
not too embarrassed to hey Bart, let's stop.
You know I'm sorry about lasttime, but let's talk to you
again, type thing.
So no great, you know golf clapfor Bart.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
you know good job, good for you, bart, and honestly
, you're going to find a rolethat's better suited for you.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Man.
Anyway, I thought that was cute, and sometimes Reddit delivers.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
Yes, it does so.
Anyways, well, before we wrapthings up, we haven't thanked
our supporters Hallie, theoriginal Jaded HR rockstar, and
then Bill and Mike.
You can join them too bysupporting us on Patreon.
There's links in the show notes.
You can contact us any numberof ways.
Send us a text link in the shownotes is awesome.
(54:23):
So go ahead and try that.
I'd love to get some feedback,love to get some more reviews.
I didn't check this week, but Idid check last week and I
didn't have any new reviews.
So get us some reviews and wewill read them.
So let us know and, of course,spread the word.
You know, if we had recorded anepisode at the end of May, like
(54:44):
we were intended to, we came soclose, without another episode,
to breaking a monthly recordfor number of downloads.
If we had put out an episode, Ifeel as close to 100% confident
we would have broken a recordfor downloads if we had put out
that episode.
So just tell your friends, getthe word out and we will talk to
(55:05):
you.
In two weeks We'll have aregular episode and in three
weeks we will have the benefitsepisode of the Office.
So a lot to look forward tohere, and plus I still have half
a page of show notes that Itook over the last four weeks
that I can go back to.
So already doing some futurework, love it, yay.
(55:26):
Well, I want to thank theUnderscore Orchestra for using
their theme song Devil to Devil.
And then the voice artist atthe beginning is Andrew Kolba,
so now I can say, as always, I'mWarren, I'm Cece and we're here
helping you survive.
Hr1.
What the Fuck moment at a time.
The Fuck Bye.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.