September 25, 2025 • 31 mins
Ever wonder what secrets lurk in your coworkers' desk drawers? Our jaw-dropping opener explores a workplace nightmare when maintenance unlocks a former employee's desk to find multiple journals explicitly rating female colleagues' appearances. This disturbing discovery raises complex questions about hostile work environments, liability after employment ends, and the hidden behaviors that can poison workplace culture.
The conversation shifts to the fascinating dual lives employees lead outside the office. We share a story about concert-going medical professionals in full goth makeup expertly handling an emergency, reminding us that our colleagues contain multitudes beyond their workplace personas. This juxtaposition of professional capability and personal expression highlights the rich diversity hidden beneath corporate exteriors.
We dive deep into the ongoing return-to-office debate, examining a troubling new trend: companies offering buyouts to employees who refuse to return to physical workspaces. Is this short-sighted during a hiring crisis? We explore generational differences in work preferences, with Gen Z surprisingly pushing for more in-office time while millennials champion remote flexibility. The discussion reveals how career stage, rather than generation, might better explain these preferences - early-career employees crave mentorship while mid-career professionals prioritize work-life balance.
The episode closes with thoughtful analysis of how hybrid policies often create unintentional favoritism, with high performers receiving more flexibility than others. When employees notice these double standards, trust erodes. Our candid, sometimes irreverent exploration of these workplace dynamics offers both entertainment and valuable insights for navigating today's complex professional landscape.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Had you actually read the email, you would know that
the podcast you are about tolisten to could contain explicit
language and offensive content.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR
professionals who want to helpyou get through the workday by
saying everything you'rethinking, but say it out loud
I'm Warren, I'm Cece.
Right Back again.
We had a great episode withBill last time, so thanks again,
bill, for joining us, and thankyou to our other Patreon
supporters Hallie, the originalJaded HR, rockstar and Mike.
So thank you both very much.
(01:15):
Yeah, a review by one of theirlisteners.
And so what did I do?
I go online and we didn't haveany new reviews.
I want to read a review, so putout a review on Apple so I can
find it and read your reviewonline.
Also, we have a new review inGreat Britain.
(01:35):
I noticed, but they didn'tleave any.
They gave us five stars but theydidn't give any comments Find
it, so thank you over thereacross the pond, whoever you may
be.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So, yeah, thank you over there across the pond,
whoever you may be.
So, yeah, I just want to sayalso, like it's not just for us,
like we like hearing ouraccolades, but this really helps
us get the podcast out to awider audience.
So if you let, if you rate it,if you comment on it, it gets to
a wider audience.
So help us, help everyone.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Exactly.
You know someone who's gettingthe burnout of HR.
This will help them, hopefully,or make them jump, I don't know
whichever, anyway.
So I only came to the tabletoday with one story, and it's
(02:26):
one of those friend of a friendstories, so I don't know all the
details or the situation behindit, but apparently this person
was a manager at a company andanother employee had left a long
time ago, like it seemed likequite a while ago.
I don't know exactly how, butmade it seem like it was quite a
while ago.
And finally don't know exactlyhow, but made it seem like it
was quite a while ago andfinally they started rehiring
(02:47):
and they needed that person'sdesk that's been vacant for ever
.
They go to empty it out to getit ready for the next person.
The drawers are locked.
Oh, no so they call maintenanceand they get in there and what's
in the drawers.
What's in the drawers.
What's in the drawers?
I will call them diaries,multiple diaries.
(03:10):
What?
They were notebooks like everyday, of how hot the women in the
office were that day, whetherhe could see somebody's whale
tail when they bent over,whether you could see somebody's
whale tail when they bent over,whether you could see nips,
whether you he.
(03:30):
It was like a perv diary fromhell rating the women.
And oh, new girl started todayI think she's an eight and
things like that and there'smultiple.
He'd been there, apparently,for some time.
There were multiple of thesenotebooks locked in his desk and
I was like, oh my gosh, and itgot.
(03:50):
It got kind of explicit inthere as well.
You know somebody wearingleggings that were too thin and
was not wearing underwear,apparently oh my gosh, my fate.
Like my, I'm just so creeped out, okay, but everybody thinks
(04:11):
things they shouldn't think, ormaybe they're looking good today
, or something like that.
It's human.
Oh my God, to make you do aspit take here.
Everybody has whatever innervoice that doesn't need to get
out.
Yes, that inner voice does notto be get out or put in writing
(04:37):
and in rating scales of who'sthe most doable in the office
and things like this and how itchanges over time.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
They were explaining to me, uh, and I'm not here to
kink shame, but why, like I'm a,I love to journal.
I have a lot of feelings.
Let's put them down, but I youcannot, don't bring those
feelings to work Like that's soweird.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I wish I knew the originator of the stories.
I would like to find out moreabout this person who kept these
journals.
Were they a creepster?
Were they someone like, oh yeah, that guy is definitely a
creepster, or?
I want to know about thatperson and did they have any
issues or complaints or anythingwith them?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
know how badly I want a name, so I can like creep on
them on LinkedIn like I said, Iwish I I want to know more about
the person.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I want to know more about their employment, their
background, what they did whatwas their rating on their last
performance review?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I want to know all of the details.
Oh my gosh, Did this personhave direct reports?
I'm so skeeved out.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, I want to know more.
I will try and ask the friendof a friend if I can get in
contact with that.
Who told you this story?
I want to hear the origin ofthis story and but I can believe
it.
I can actually believe you.
Open up this desk drawer that'sbeen locked for who knows how
long and here it is.
(06:16):
Oh, look at Susie today, orwhatever.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I don't, I don't know when you said it was locked, I
like uh oh, and I'm thinking Idid not go there.
I was thinking what did theyfind in there?
Did they find a butt plug?
I don't know?
That shocked me.
I was like what?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
But I wanted to know.
I want to know too, what didthey do with these journals,
these notebooks?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Burn them, burn them.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And apparently a lot of people ended up finding out
about what, if you were one ofthe employees that was creeped
on in their dimensioning you andyou're like I.
Just I have so many questions Iwant to know the answer to, but
I never know, I wish we did avisual medium because I
(07:08):
literally was like the kombuchagirl.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Well, no, I was like the kombucha girl meme for a
second where I was like ugh.
And then I was like ugh Becauseyou're like what if you were
one of those people in that bookand I was like ugh?
And then there was a piece ofme that was like, well, I'm kind
of curious now if it's in there.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
What's my?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
rating.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
What review?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
did you get?
I have an achievement mentality.
I need to know what my ratingsare at all times.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And then, okay, here's another HR aspect of it.
Apparently, people read thisand saw it.
Here's another HR aspect of it.
Apparently, people read thisand saw it Is that a hostile
work environment claim?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
All of a sudden they're saying that okay, this
person's hot, this person's not,or this person, like I said, it
got kind of explicit.
So is it like I'm picturingMean Girls where they take the
burn book and make photocopiesand like expose it out to
everybody?
Like, how did it get around theoffice to people?
Were people just like gossiping?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
or talking about it.
I think once I pulled them outand started reading what are
these, I don't know I was likesaid, there's so many more
things I want to know about thatstory.
So, but, like I said, I can seeit and I can imagine the HR
nightmare.
What do you do?
You can't fire the guy, he'sgone.
Now, all of a sudden, you get asexual harassment complaint
(08:35):
from however long it goes sinceJimmy, or whatever his name is,
leaves.
And now, well, we're sorry,this happened.
We didn't know.
I don't know what to, but anotebook in detailing explicitly
things about people whatthey're wearing, what they're
not wearing, yeah, what he'sseeing, what he thinks he's
(08:55):
seeing it does.
Yeah, weird Only in HR.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Only in HR, jeez, you know what there's like.
There's times where I'm notsurprised, surprised, the bar's
just been raised.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
See, I'm not surprised.
I can actually see thathappening, and yeah, and then
what if he wasn't a manager?
And the manager?
He's rating the manager oh, myboss is looking smoking today.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it just feels like thebeginning of a Dateline episode,
like is any, but is are thereany missing people?
Yeah, are there any missingpeople in that area?
And just maybe, like a wellnesscheck on him, just go check it
out, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Check his basement yeah, check the basement he puts
the notion on seriouslyseriously, that's the only thing
I really brought to the thetable today I have.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I have something anecdotal.
I just.
I was just thinking I was inyour neck of the woods this
weekend.
I went to North Carolina and wewere there for a concert and we
were there specifically forColdplay, not Coldplay.
So, first of all, I'm alwayslike one of those people I like
(10:20):
to.
I love to see a crowd of fansright, so I am a new fan of this
band.
If anyone, if anyone likes rock,slash metal, sleep token saw
them awesome, but I always lovelike how the fandoms get so into
it and they were even doinglike the Taylor Swift bracelet
switch things like it was.
(10:41):
It was a whole thing.
So if you could imagine likeslightly goth swifties that's
how I would describe this crowdthere was, we were.
It was kind of a clusterfuckbecause they were doing a, they
had a late soundtrack and wewere.
The doors didn't open untillike two hours after they were
supposed to.
So if you could imagine likethe entire sold out arena, like
(11:05):
all those people who would be inseats were like outside it was
beautiful weather and the crowdwas really fun and it was a
great time, but somebody infront of us passed out and they,
you know, felt it wasn't evenhot.
So I was like, oh, like I don't.
But they just passed out andall of a sudden, people come
rushing and they know whatthey're doing.
(11:26):
They are dressed all in blackface makeup, body makeup, black
eyeliner, like everything youcould picture but they are like
nurses and EMT people and theyare pushing people out of the
way, giving her room, helpingthis girl get up and like
literally it was like three orfour of them out of this crowd
(11:47):
and there was just somethingabout like what do your
co-workers do outside of work?
Because I was like these arelike full-on.
Very by the way, I was justlike thank god they were there
because you know they reallylike helped her out, but they
were like completelyprofessional.
They were thank God they werethere because you know they
really like helped her out, butthey were like completely
professional, they were freakingon it, they were fast, but I
just love the fact that therethey are in black makeup and
(12:10):
platform boots and stuff justhelping this girl.
So it just makes me wonder likewhat people are outside of work.
How do these people show up towork?
Like would anyone guess thatthis is what they do on the
weekend?
I love it.
Like would anyone guess thatthis is what they do on the
weekend?
I love it.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, exactly, I like it too.
That's pretty cool.
But you went to a concert OnSaturday.
I was supposed to go to aconcert or a show, I should say.
One of my all-time comedicheroes is Steve Martin, and on
Friday he played in VirginiaBeach.
But those tickets were like thetheater he played in was really
(12:45):
small.
It's a brand new theater theyplayed in in Virginia Beach.
It was super small.
So I got tickets the next night, saturday, up in Richmond, but
Steve Martin got COVID, andsomeone I know I work with was
en route to the Virginia Beachshow when they found out and
texted me and I went online andI saw, but I was just so I
(13:06):
didn't get to see.
So a lot of things happened.
First, saturday was my 28thyear anniversary with my wife 28
years of Mary and 34 yearssince we started dating.
But that was Saturday.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
That's awesome Congrats.
That was our thing, we weregoing to go.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
yeah, thanks, we were going to go see Steve Martin
Martin Short for our anniversary.
But also Saturday was an EastCarolina home football game.
So this is the first homefootball game in I don't even
know how long I'm trying tofigure it out other than COVID,
when you couldn't go to the gamethat I didn't go to and East
Carolina lost.
I didn't get to and eastcarolina lost.
(13:41):
I didn't get to go see aconcert and it was just sort of
a shit show.
It wasn't we my wife and I didretail therapy and now I need a
second job, but yeah so supportus on patreon.
We did some retail therapy allday saturday and a little bit
into sunday as well, and justchilled and had a good old time.
But yeah, I, I think you knowsteve martin's not getting any
younger and yeah really wantedthe opportunity to see, see him
(14:06):
and yeah, so are they gonnareschedule it?
Again.
No, it's just flat out cancer.
But I heard he's going to.
They're beginning doing a likea week or more in vegas, so oh,
I might make it worth going tovegas again.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yes, so not h HR related, just North Carolina
related.
I have a question as someonewho's not from North Carolina
nor is there.
What is it with you all and theinability to follow a line or
to make lines very confusing?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Okay, you ready for the answer.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Oh wait, I'm just going to say first, not only was
it a clusterfuck at the concertand there was a line, and the
line literally made like afigure eight, like it crossed
into itself.
And then everyone I'm like whatis wrong with you all?
And it wasn't until, like a fewof us who clearly weren't from
North Carolina were like this isdumb, and we like re-situated
the line and everyone's like,yay, I'm like, what is that?
(15:05):
Second of all, go to brunch andthen when I walk into the
brunch place, not one line buttwo lines to like check in and
to get takeout, but they don'ttell you which one's which.
And then people are confused.
And then one woman walks in andit's like doesn't believe in
lines and just walks right up tothe host stand.
And I'm like what is going onin this state?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Okay, my mother's favorite term in the entire
English language is goddamnYankee bastard.
And that is exactly what you'reexperiencing.
Those are 99% chance not NorthCarolinians, but they are
relocations from Massachusetts,New York, whatever other place.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
No, because I know New Englanders, new Englanders
don't put up with that.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Okay, funny story about my mother.
My mother has zero filter, shehas.
I love it zero filter she has.
I love it she's.
So she's just moved towilmington and she's going.
It was a year of hurricaneflorence, so it was what that?
2018.
She's moving to wilmington andshe's going to these.
My mother is eccentric, let'ssay, and if something doesn't
(16:20):
cost too much, she doesn't wantit.
So we're going to thesefrou-frou furniture stores.
I get it.
She's dragging me around aswell and I'm trying to help her.
But, anyways, we walk in thisone store and I will say this
guy was like a reject from thesopranos.
He's it's 2018 at that time.
He's wearing a monochromaticsuit, he's, and he's very New
(16:45):
York, new Jersey is with hisaccent, and he's, I mean, reject
from the Sopranos, straight up,no other way to put it.
And he's coming in with his bigaccent.
He's all big and you know,trying to be all full of himself
and everything, and talking inthe like just your very
stereotypical mafioso accenttype thing.
(17:05):
And my mother just looks at himand says, excuse me, do you
have anybody who speaks englishthat works here?
And I said, okay, mom, we'releaving.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
But he was he, oh gosh that's hilarious yeah, but
that's that's, that's my motherof like we have a couple friends
, one of them's from England.
Maybe that's the person thatleft the review.
If that's you, becky, shout out.
She's also in HR.
Leave a comment.
Leave a comment.
But anyway, you know, herhusband's from here and they
(17:37):
went over to the UK and theywere like going through the
countries there and they wentinto I think it was Scotland and
the you know driver, the taxidriver, is speaking perfect
English.
It's just there like a verythick accent.
So he would ask, he would askthe husband questions, and then
all of a sudden, like thehusband would just like be like
I don't know, and he would lookat his wife and the wife would
(17:59):
translate back because like hecouldn't figure the accent, know
.
And he would look at his wifeand the wife would translate
back because like he couldn'tfigure the accent out and he was
like I don't, I don't knowwhat's happening.
He's like I know you'respeaking English, I just can't
hear it.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Oh, I know we're going off on all sorts of
tangents but oh well, my wifeand I we love a lot of British
television shows and one of thebest I love David Tennant.
I love him from Doctor who butBroadchurch.
I'll look it up on Broadchurchbut he is speaking in his full
Scottish accent in Broadchurchand my wife she's like what did
(18:30):
he say?
What did he say?
I'm like don't you understandit, it's so thick.
But him and Karen Gillian Inever knew how thick her real
Scottish accent was.
I'm like whoa.
I actually you know it's likeany of the cast from the Walking
Dead.
If you've watched them, they'reall British and all of a sudden
they're speaking in thesouthern accents and things like
(18:52):
that.
Then you see them onentertainment tonight or on TV
with the British accent that'stalent.
My mind is blown.
It doesn't, it doesn't register.
I can't, I can't put ittogether.
I'm not, I can't, I can, Ican't put it together.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I'm not, I can't.
I can do a good accent of mygrandma and that's it.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't even pretend to try.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Oh, and I'm not going to try it If you just want.
This is the last thing beforewe go.
This is a gift from me to you,warren, and to the listeners out
there.
Amazon Prime If you're lookingfor something that's just
off-the-wall, baddie and you'relike this can't be real, but
it's entertaining.
A British show called theCrystal Maze that I was
(19:30):
introduced to and you have to goto the 90s version of it.
It is like a game show.
It's a British game.
It was a British game show.
They tried to revive it.
Whatever show, it's a britishgame.
It was a british game show.
They tried to revive it.
Whatever.
Apparently, the 90s version iswhat you want.
Um, it is like work it sweep.
It is like an acid trip of agame show, just like it is.
(19:50):
The whole thing is weird.
They're crawling into differentlands.
They're like skipping to landsand then they're locked in rooms
and you got to get a puzzle toget out of the room and then you
have to get crystals and thenyou have to go to.
It is delightful and ridiculousokay, that is my gift to all of
(20:13):
you awesome, awesome.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Let's see.
I you know, like I said, I onlybrought one thing to the table
today.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I was, I was, I was at a show this weekend.
I did not prep.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Oh, we did have one thing about returning return to
work.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yes, yes, here, yeah, there was an interesting
article that was about returningto office.
So there is, like, as we know,companies, there's that push and
pull of like companies wantingpeople to come back to the
office, people pushing back andsaying, not so much.
So a lot of bigger companieslike Microsoft and Amazon and
all those they're, you know,mandating days into the office
(20:55):
but they're noticing that theattendance hasn't changed.
So, basically, like, peoplejust aren't listening and
they're just refusing.
So now, just because apparentlypeople want in the, or
companies want people in theoffice so badly that they're
actually offering what they'recalling exit assistance or
buyouts for people who don'twant to come back into the
(21:16):
office, so they'll just buy outand you're no longer employed.
So, yeah, I thought that waslike oddly interesting.
I have a few thoughts, butcurious about what your initial
thoughts are.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
You know what it made me think?
One of the guests on GoodMorning HR a few episodes ago
was talking about it's Gen Z,actually, who's pushing the
return to the office thing, andI was like you're selling, I'm
not buying.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I think it's there, wait they're pushing to go back,
back, to go back.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I believe it okay, continue okay okay, I, but in
his reasons were sound aboutthey.
They want the leadership, theywant the mentorship, they want
the social interaction that theyaren't getting working from
home.
And they said it's themillennials that are pushing
hard on the stay remote, stayremote.
(22:14):
I believe that.
So I just didn't buy that theZs were the ones pushing the
return to the office.
I think it's the Xers and theBoomers that are definitely
pushing the return to office toa certain degree.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
You know it's interesting because I totally
see what you're saying and Ithink we have to.
So first of all, I thinkthere's two pieces.
One I was on a work trip oncewith a coworker and this was his
first job out of grad schooland he worked remote, 100%, like
(22:51):
he never had experience in anoffice.
So when we had gone to the homeoffice to do like our planning
meeting as the greater team, hewas stoked, like he was like
that's a cubicle, that's astanding desk, or do the people
sit?
Like he was just like he waslike that's a cubicle, that's a
standing desk, or do the peoplesit?
Like he was just so into it.
And he was like do you have anyswag, can I have a mouse pad?
(23:11):
Like so into it.
Because they've neverexperienced it right and they've
probably seen office cultureand a lot of pop culture that
they never experienced.
But I always like to think oflike not labeling the
generations just more of wherepeople are in their career and I
think, like Gen Z, they reallyneed the leadership, they really
(23:33):
need the mentorship, theyreally need it like and because
their early career that's whatwe needed the most when we were
early career.
And I think now, as we look atmillennials, well, millennials
have families now and we have agreater need for life balance
and we have a greater need to beable to like step away so we
could go to like a soccer gameat like 3.30 in the afternoon or
(23:57):
something like that.
So that completely tracks to meeverything that you just said.
I was like no 100%.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
See, I have such mixed feelings.
I really thought it was the Zs.
I'm not going to take a job ifit's in the office and you hear
things like that.
But then again, here's theother thing.
Let's take the millennials outof the office and you've got the
old geezers like me and the newpeople.
Oh, I'm kidding.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
That's so adjuvant no exactly, exactly.
They're learning all the badhabits.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
No, that's exactly what I'm thinking.
Are the Zs going to end up moreresembling the Xers, if the
Xers are the ones doing thementoring, than the millennials
who are out in the office?
And are we going to see a swingback, if you will, to what all
the and I will say the wordadvancements that the
(24:53):
millennials brought to theworkforce?
Are you going to see a swingback Because?
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I could see that.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
No, I just think that it's really interesting, the
whole return to office andbuying people out.
It's hard enough to hireanybody at all right now, so why
push someone out the door?
Try and find a middle ground.
I know that this whole hybridwork thing I've heard a lot of
people say it's a flop becauseit's not adhered to one way or
(25:26):
the other by by a lot of people.
I I just don't know.
Find find some way to to retainthem, because it's impossible
to hire people right now I thinkit's not impossible.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
This is, this is my two cents.
I I think this is one of thosethings where we're going to get
back to an office culture atsome point, whether it be in
five years, 10 years, 20 years,whatever, like that pendulum
probably will swing back, butit's going to swing back when
the employees want it to swingback.
(26:02):
So and I think we're we mightbe seeing that a little bit more
with Gen Z, like they want tobe more in office.
And now you know, the morepeople you have making something
a norm, the more people aregoing to join into that norm.
So for companies to mandate itand be like you got to come back
or you're fired, I think just alittle.
I mean, in my opinion, if it'snot broken, don't fix it.
(26:27):
I think you know the numbers areout there.
Anyone who's listening to thispodcast has heard the numbers.
Productivity's fine, people arefine.
If you have a bad actor, dealwith the bad actor.
It's not broken right now, butthere will be a time where
people are going to want,they're going to seek hybrid
roles, not 100% remote roles.
They're going to seek that outwhen they go to look for a job
(26:51):
and at that point, that's whenyou're just going to let it
dictate, like don't push it,because you're just going to
push high performers out.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, and that sort of leads me to another thing
along the lines the highperformers.
You know we brought it up anynumber of times you know that
awesome salesperson that hasdifferent rules than anybody
else Because they're driving theincome and okay, we'll let them
get away with being a completea-hole in the office because
(27:18):
they're bringing in the bigbucks, or you know, let them get
away with anything virtually,or let them get away with
anything virtually.
So the high performance,especially when it comes to
things like sales, if you cansell a piece of paper, you can
sell this, you can sell a car.
If you're a good salesperson,the object doesn't matter.
(27:40):
Now, of course, there's a levelwhere passion comes into play,
and if you are into somethingand passionate about something,
that's a different story.
But a good salesperson can selllike they.
They say ice to an eskimo orwhatever there it's.
You know that's what they cando and they can move on.
They can go, probably, findmore money, find a better
commission structure.
Fine, you know if you, if youtry hard enough, you're going to
find another job with moremoney, more whatever it is that
(28:02):
you're looking for yeah and it'sI.
I just I don't want to lose.
I don't want to lose peoplewhen it's hard to hire them and
lose them to somebody who's alittle bit more forward thinking
or flexible or I don't knowwhat the the right term is with
that, but yeah, I don't want tolose people yeah, period.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
yeah, it's funny you said that because they also
mentioned the favoritism inthose hybrid policies.
Like you said, no one's.
I feel like organizations tryto crack the whip and be like
you've got to be in the officethree days a week, but then you
have the top performers who maybe only coming in two days a
(28:45):
week, or maybe they're juststaying next week all at home,
or like there's more flexibilityaround the high performers than
there are everyone else, andthat's something also like that
you just kind of have to beaware of specifically with
hybrid stuff, because people seethat and they sniff it out.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
So I don't know.
I say if it's not a detrimentto your business, if the role
itself is suitable for it, whyfix it?
There's bigger things to worryabout people.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I did also.
I was texting you earlier today.
I was doing some research usingChatGPT for the first time.
I subscribe to Gemini but forclasses I have to subscribe to
ChatGPT.
So I, for the very first timeever, started my research in
ChatGPT and I'm saying, oh, giveme some ideas for topics for HR
.
What are the hot topics in HRright now?
(29:40):
And it gave me a lot of reallygeneric things like return to
work and DEI and all this.
I'm like no, I want something alittle and I said make it for a
good talking point.
I'll actually find that.
The screenshot I sent, yeah, soit gives me all these topics.
And I say, to further clarify,I'm looking for articles to
(30:02):
discuss in an HR podcast thatfocuses on the cynical side of
HR.
Check GBT's responses Got it.
Thanks for clarifying for acynical HR comedy podcast like
Jaded HR and it goes on fromthere.
I'm getting referenced as myown.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
A few years ago.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
We've made it somewhere, but I think I talked
to the podcast.
I used myself as a source on apaper a few years ago or last
year in a class, and now I'm areference to myself, or we're a
reference to ourself on a chatGPT circle.
Yeah, I'm just.
I was stoked when I saw it.
I had to share it because Iactually had a few minutes this
(30:43):
morning before my day went tocrap where I could.
I was like, oh, I haven't doneany show prep really for this
week and yeah so, yeah, thatjust made me happy.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
All righty.
With all that said, I will saythe voice artist is Andrew Kolpa
and the musicians are theUnderscore Orchestra doing the
song Devil to Devil.
And, as always, I'm Warren, I'mCece and we're here helping you
survive HR, one what-the-fuckmoment at a time.
Thank you.
Had you actually read the email, you would know that
the podcast you are about tolisten to could contain explicit
language and offensive content.
These HR experts' views are notrepresentative of their past,
present or future employers.
If you have ever heard mymanager is unfair to me.
I need you to reset my HRportal password, or Can I write
(00:24):
up my employee for crying toomuch?
Welcome to our little safe zone.
Welcome to Jaded HR.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Welcome to Jaded HR, the podcast by two HR
professionals who want to helpyou get through the workday by
saying everything you'rethinking, but say it out loud
I'm Warren, I'm Cece.
Right Back again.
We had a great episode withBill last time, so thanks again,
bill, for joining us, and thankyou to our other Patreon
supporters Hallie, the originalJaded HR, rockstar and Mike.
So thank you both very much.
(01:15):
Yeah, a review by one of theirlisteners.
And so what did I do?
I go online and we didn't haveany new reviews.
I want to read a review, so putout a review on Apple so I can
find it and read your reviewonline.
Also, we have a new review inGreat Britain.
(01:35):
I noticed, but they didn'tleave any.
They gave us five stars but theydidn't give any comments Find
it, so thank you over thereacross the pond, whoever you may
be.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
So, yeah, thank you over there across the pond,
whoever you may be.
So, yeah, I just want to sayalso, like it's not just for us,
like we like hearing ouraccolades, but this really helps
us get the podcast out to awider audience.
So if you let, if you rate it,if you comment on it, it gets to
a wider audience.
So help us, help everyone.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Exactly.
You know someone who's gettingthe burnout of HR.
This will help them, hopefully,or make them jump, I don't know
whichever, anyway.
So I only came to the tabletoday with one story, and it's
(02:26):
one of those friend of a friendstories, so I don't know all the
details or the situation behindit, but apparently this person
was a manager at a company andanother employee had left a long
time ago, like it seemed likequite a while ago.
I don't know exactly how, butmade it seem like it was quite a
while ago.
And finally don't know exactlyhow, but made it seem like it
was quite a while ago andfinally they started rehiring
(02:47):
and they needed that person'sdesk that's been vacant for ever
.
They go to empty it out to getit ready for the next person.
The drawers are locked.
Oh, no so they call maintenanceand they get in there and what's
in the drawers.
What's in the drawers.
What's in the drawers?
I will call them diaries,multiple diaries.
(03:10):
What?
They were notebooks like everyday, of how hot the women in the
office were that day, whetherhe could see somebody's whale
tail when they bent over,whether you could see somebody's
whale tail when they bent over,whether you could see nips,
whether you he.
(03:30):
It was like a perv diary fromhell rating the women.
And oh, new girl started todayI think she's an eight and
things like that and there'smultiple.
He'd been there, apparently,for some time.
There were multiple of thesenotebooks locked in his desk and
I was like, oh my gosh, and itgot.
(03:50):
It got kind of explicit inthere as well.
You know somebody wearingleggings that were too thin and
was not wearing underwear,apparently oh my gosh, my fate.
Like my, I'm just so creeped out, okay, but everybody thinks
(04:11):
things they shouldn't think, ormaybe they're looking good today
, or something like that.
It's human.
Oh my God, to make you do aspit take here.
Everybody has whatever innervoice that doesn't need to get
out.
Yes, that inner voice does notto be get out or put in writing
(04:37):
and in rating scales of who'sthe most doable in the office
and things like this and how itchanges over time.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
They were explaining to me, uh, and I'm not here to
kink shame, but why, like I'm a,I love to journal.
I have a lot of feelings.
Let's put them down, but I youcannot, don't bring those
feelings to work Like that's soweird.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I wish I knew the originator of the stories.
I would like to find out moreabout this person who kept these
journals.
Were they a creepster?
Were they someone like, oh yeah, that guy is definitely a
creepster, or?
I want to know about thatperson and did they have any
issues or complaints or anythingwith them?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
know how badly I want a name, so I can like creep on
them on LinkedIn like I said, Iwish I I want to know more about
the person.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I want to know more about their employment, their
background, what they did whatwas their rating on their last
performance review?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I want to know all of the details.
Oh my gosh, Did this personhave direct reports?
I'm so skeeved out.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, I want to know more.
I will try and ask the friendof a friend if I can get in
contact with that.
Who told you this story?
I want to hear the origin ofthis story and but I can believe
it.
I can actually believe you.
Open up this desk drawer that'sbeen locked for who knows how
long and here it is.
(06:16):
Oh, look at Susie today, orwhatever.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I don't, I don't know when you said it was locked, I
like uh oh, and I'm thinking Idid not go there.
I was thinking what did theyfind in there?
Did they find a butt plug?
I don't know?
That shocked me.
I was like what?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
But I wanted to know.
I want to know too, what didthey do with these journals,
these notebooks?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Burn them, burn them.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And apparently a lot of people ended up finding out
about what, if you were one ofthe employees that was creeped
on in their dimensioning you andyou're like I.
Just I have so many questions Iwant to know the answer to, but
I never know, I wish we did avisual medium because I
(07:08):
literally was like the kombuchagirl.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Well, no, I was like the kombucha girl meme for a
second where I was like ugh.
And then I was like ugh Becauseyou're like what if you were
one of those people in that bookand I was like ugh?
And then there was a piece ofme that was like, well, I'm kind
of curious now if it's in there.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
What's my?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
rating.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
What review?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
did you get?
I have an achievement mentality.
I need to know what my ratingsare at all times.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And then, okay, here's another HR aspect of it.
Apparently, people read thisand saw it.
Here's another HR aspect of it.
Apparently, people read thisand saw it Is that a hostile
work environment claim?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
All of a sudden they're saying that okay, this
person's hot, this person's not,or this person, like I said, it
got kind of explicit.
So is it like I'm picturingMean Girls where they take the
burn book and make photocopiesand like expose it out to
everybody?
Like, how did it get around theoffice to people?
Were people just like gossiping?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
or talking about it.
I think once I pulled them outand started reading what are
these, I don't know I was likesaid, there's so many more
things I want to know about thatstory.
So, but, like I said, I can seeit and I can imagine the HR
nightmare.
What do you do?
You can't fire the guy, he'sgone.
Now, all of a sudden, you get asexual harassment complaint
(08:35):
from however long it goes sinceJimmy, or whatever his name is,
leaves.
And now, well, we're sorry,this happened.
We didn't know.
I don't know what to, but anotebook in detailing explicitly
things about people whatthey're wearing, what they're
not wearing, yeah, what he'sseeing, what he thinks he's
(08:55):
seeing it does.
Yeah, weird Only in HR.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Only in HR, jeez, you know what there's like.
There's times where I'm notsurprised, surprised, the bar's
just been raised.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
See, I'm not surprised.
I can actually see thathappening, and yeah, and then
what if he wasn't a manager?
And the manager?
He's rating the manager oh, myboss is looking smoking today.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it just feels like thebeginning of a Dateline episode,
like is any, but is are thereany missing people?
Yeah, are there any missingpeople in that area?
And just maybe, like a wellnesscheck on him, just go check it
out, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Check his basement yeah, check the basement he puts
the notion on seriouslyseriously, that's the only thing
I really brought to the thetable today I have.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
I have something anecdotal.
I just.
I was just thinking I was inyour neck of the woods this
weekend.
I went to North Carolina and wewere there for a concert and we
were there specifically forColdplay, not Coldplay.
So, first of all, I'm alwayslike one of those people I like
(10:20):
to.
I love to see a crowd of fansright, so I am a new fan of this
band.
If anyone, if anyone likes rock,slash metal, sleep token saw
them awesome, but I always lovelike how the fandoms get so into
it and they were even doinglike the Taylor Swift bracelet
switch things like it was.
(10:41):
It was a whole thing.
So if you could imagine likeslightly goth swifties that's
how I would describe this crowdthere was, we were.
It was kind of a clusterfuckbecause they were doing a, they
had a late soundtrack and wewere.
The doors didn't open untillike two hours after they were
supposed to.
So if you could imagine likethe entire sold out arena, like
(11:05):
all those people who would be inseats were like outside it was
beautiful weather and the crowdwas really fun and it was a
great time, but somebody infront of us passed out and they,
you know, felt it wasn't evenhot.
So I was like, oh, like I don't.
But they just passed out andall of a sudden, people come
rushing and they know whatthey're doing.
(11:26):
They are dressed all in blackface makeup, body makeup, black
eyeliner, like everything youcould picture but they are like
nurses and EMT people and theyare pushing people out of the
way, giving her room, helpingthis girl get up and like
literally it was like three orfour of them out of this crowd
(11:47):
and there was just somethingabout like what do your
co-workers do outside of work?
Because I was like these arelike full-on.
Very by the way, I was justlike thank god they were there
because you know they reallylike helped her out, but they
were like completelyprofessional.
They were thank God they werethere because you know they
really like helped her out, butthey were like completely
professional, they were freakingon it, they were fast, but I
just love the fact that therethey are in black makeup and
(12:10):
platform boots and stuff justhelping this girl.
So it just makes me wonder likewhat people are outside of work.
How do these people show up towork?
Like would anyone guess thatthis is what they do on the
weekend?
I love it.
Like would anyone guess thatthis is what they do on the
weekend?
I love it.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, exactly, I like it too.
That's pretty cool.
But you went to a concert OnSaturday.
I was supposed to go to aconcert or a show, I should say.
One of my all-time comedicheroes is Steve Martin, and on
Friday he played in VirginiaBeach.
But those tickets were like thetheater he played in was really
(12:45):
small.
It's a brand new theater theyplayed in in Virginia Beach.
It was super small.
So I got tickets the next night, saturday, up in Richmond, but
Steve Martin got COVID, andsomeone I know I work with was
en route to the Virginia Beachshow when they found out and
texted me and I went online andI saw, but I was just so I
(13:06):
didn't get to see.
So a lot of things happened.
First, saturday was my 28thyear anniversary with my wife 28
years of Mary and 34 yearssince we started dating.
But that was Saturday.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
That's awesome Congrats.
That was our thing, we weregoing to go.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
yeah, thanks, we were going to go see Steve Martin
Martin Short for our anniversary.
But also Saturday was an EastCarolina home football game.
So this is the first homefootball game in I don't even
know how long I'm trying tofigure it out other than COVID,
when you couldn't go to the gamethat I didn't go to and East
Carolina lost.
I didn't get to and eastcarolina lost.
(13:41):
I didn't get to go see aconcert and it was just sort of
a shit show.
It wasn't we my wife and I didretail therapy and now I need a
second job, but yeah so supportus on patreon.
We did some retail therapy allday saturday and a little bit
into sunday as well, and justchilled and had a good old time.
But yeah, I, I think you knowsteve martin's not getting any
younger and yeah really wantedthe opportunity to see, see him
(14:06):
and yeah, so are they gonnareschedule it?
Again.
No, it's just flat out cancer.
But I heard he's going to.
They're beginning doing a likea week or more in vegas, so oh,
I might make it worth going tovegas again.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yes, so not h HR related, just North Carolina
related.
I have a question as someonewho's not from North Carolina
nor is there.
What is it with you all and theinability to follow a line or
to make lines very confusing?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Okay, you ready for the answer.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Oh wait, I'm just going to say first, not only was
it a clusterfuck at the concertand there was a line, and the
line literally made like afigure eight, like it crossed
into itself.
And then everyone I'm like whatis wrong with you all?
And it wasn't until, like a fewof us who clearly weren't from
North Carolina were like this isdumb, and we like re-situated
the line and everyone's like,yay, I'm like, what is that?
(15:05):
Second of all, go to brunch andthen when I walk into the
brunch place, not one line buttwo lines to like check in and
to get takeout, but they don'ttell you which one's which.
And then people are confused.
And then one woman walks in andit's like doesn't believe in
lines and just walks right up tothe host stand.
And I'm like what is going onin this state?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Okay, my mother's favorite term in the entire
English language is goddamnYankee bastard.
And that is exactly what you'reexperiencing.
Those are 99% chance not NorthCarolinians, but they are
relocations from Massachusetts,New York, whatever other place.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
No, because I know New Englanders, new Englanders
don't put up with that.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Okay, funny story about my mother.
My mother has zero filter, shehas.
I love it zero filter she has.
I love it she's.
So she's just moved towilmington and she's going.
It was a year of hurricaneflorence, so it was what that?
2018.
She's moving to wilmington andshe's going to these.
My mother is eccentric, let'ssay, and if something doesn't
(16:20):
cost too much, she doesn't wantit.
So we're going to thesefrou-frou furniture stores.
I get it.
She's dragging me around aswell and I'm trying to help her.
But, anyways, we walk in thisone store and I will say this
guy was like a reject from thesopranos.
He's it's 2018 at that time.
He's wearing a monochromaticsuit, he's, and he's very New
(16:45):
York, new Jersey is with hisaccent, and he's, I mean, reject
from the Sopranos, straight up,no other way to put it.
And he's coming in with his bigaccent.
He's all big and you know,trying to be all full of himself
and everything, and talking inthe like just your very
stereotypical mafioso accenttype thing.
(17:05):
And my mother just looks at himand says, excuse me, do you
have anybody who speaks englishthat works here?
And I said, okay, mom, we'releaving.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
But he was he, oh gosh that's hilarious yeah, but
that's that's, that's my motherof like we have a couple friends
, one of them's from England.
Maybe that's the person thatleft the review.
If that's you, becky, shout out.
She's also in HR.
Leave a comment.
Leave a comment.
But anyway, you know, herhusband's from here and they
(17:37):
went over to the UK and theywere like going through the
countries there and they wentinto I think it was Scotland and
the you know driver, the taxidriver, is speaking perfect
English.
It's just there like a verythick accent.
So he would ask, he would askthe husband questions, and then
all of a sudden, like thehusband would just like be like
I don't know, and he would lookat his wife and the wife would
(17:59):
translate back because like hecouldn't figure the accent, know
.
And he would look at his wifeand the wife would translate
back because like he couldn'tfigure the accent out and he was
like I don't, I don't knowwhat's happening.
He's like I know you'respeaking English, I just can't
hear it.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Oh, I know we're going off on all sorts of
tangents but oh well, my wifeand I we love a lot of British
television shows and one of thebest I love David Tennant.
I love him from Doctor who butBroadchurch.
I'll look it up on Broadchurchbut he is speaking in his full
Scottish accent in Broadchurchand my wife she's like what did
(18:30):
he say?
What did he say?
I'm like don't you understandit, it's so thick.
But him and Karen Gillian Inever knew how thick her real
Scottish accent was.
I'm like whoa.
I actually you know it's likeany of the cast from the Walking
Dead.
If you've watched them, they'reall British and all of a sudden
they're speaking in thesouthern accents and things like
(18:52):
that.
Then you see them onentertainment tonight or on TV
with the British accent that'stalent.
My mind is blown.
It doesn't, it doesn't register.
I can't, I can't put ittogether.
I'm not, I can't, I can, Ican't put it together.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I'm not, I can't.
I can do a good accent of mygrandma and that's it.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't even pretend to try.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Oh, and I'm not going to try it If you just want.
This is the last thing beforewe go.
This is a gift from me to you,warren, and to the listeners out
there.
Amazon Prime If you're lookingfor something that's just
off-the-wall, baddie and you'relike this can't be real, but
it's entertaining.
A British show called theCrystal Maze that I was
(19:30):
introduced to and you have to goto the 90s version of it.
It is like a game show.
It's a British game.
It was a British game show.
They tried to revive it.
Whatever show, it's a britishgame.
It was a british game show.
They tried to revive it.
Whatever.
Apparently, the 90s version iswhat you want.
Um, it is like work it sweep.
It is like an acid trip of agame show, just like it is.
(19:50):
The whole thing is weird.
They're crawling into differentlands.
They're like skipping to landsand then they're locked in rooms
and you got to get a puzzle toget out of the room and then you
have to get crystals and thenyou have to go to.
It is delightful and ridiculousokay, that is my gift to all of
(20:13):
you awesome, awesome.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Let's see.
I you know, like I said, I onlybrought one thing to the table
today.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I was, I was, I was at a show this weekend.
I did not prep.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Oh, we did have one thing about returning return to
work.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yes, yes, here, yeah, there was an interesting
article that was about returningto office.
So there is, like, as we know,companies, there's that push and
pull of like companies wantingpeople to come back to the
office, people pushing back andsaying, not so much.
So a lot of bigger companieslike Microsoft and Amazon and
all those they're, you know,mandating days into the office
(20:55):
but they're noticing that theattendance hasn't changed.
So, basically, like, peoplejust aren't listening and
they're just refusing.
So now, just because apparentlypeople want in the, or
companies want people in theoffice so badly that they're
actually offering what they'recalling exit assistance or
buyouts for people who don'twant to come back into the
(21:16):
office, so they'll just buy outand you're no longer employed.
So, yeah, I thought that waslike oddly interesting.
I have a few thoughts, butcurious about what your initial
thoughts are.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
You know what it made me think?
One of the guests on GoodMorning HR a few episodes ago
was talking about it's Gen Z,actually, who's pushing the
return to the office thing, andI was like you're selling, I'm
not buying.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I think it's there, wait they're pushing to go back,
back, to go back.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I believe it okay, continue okay okay, I, but in
his reasons were sound aboutthey.
They want the leadership, theywant the mentorship, they want
the social interaction that theyaren't getting working from
home.
And they said it's themillennials that are pushing
hard on the stay remote, stayremote.
(22:14):
I believe that.
So I just didn't buy that theZs were the ones pushing the
return to the office.
I think it's the Xers and theBoomers that are definitely
pushing the return to office toa certain degree.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
You know it's interesting because I totally
see what you're saying and Ithink we have to.
So first of all, I thinkthere's two pieces.
One I was on a work trip oncewith a coworker and this was his
first job out of grad schooland he worked remote, 100%, like
(22:51):
he never had experience in anoffice.
So when we had gone to the homeoffice to do like our planning
meeting as the greater team, hewas stoked, like he was like
that's a cubicle, that's astanding desk, or do the people
sit?
Like he was just like he waslike that's a cubicle, that's a
standing desk, or do the peoplesit?
Like he was just so into it.
And he was like do you have anyswag, can I have a mouse pad?
(23:11):
Like so into it.
Because they've neverexperienced it right and they've
probably seen office cultureand a lot of pop culture that
they never experienced.
But I always like to think oflike not labeling the
generations just more of wherepeople are in their career and I
think, like Gen Z, they reallyneed the leadership, they really
(23:33):
need the mentorship, theyreally need it like and because
their early career that's whatwe needed the most when we were
early career.
And I think now, as we look atmillennials, well, millennials
have families now and we have agreater need for life balance
and we have a greater need to beable to like step away so we
could go to like a soccer gameat like 3.30 in the afternoon or
(23:57):
something like that.
So that completely tracks to meeverything that you just said.
I was like no 100%.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
See, I have such mixed feelings.
I really thought it was the Zs.
I'm not going to take a job ifit's in the office and you hear
things like that.
But then again, here's theother thing.
Let's take the millennials outof the office and you've got the
old geezers like me and the newpeople.
Oh, I'm kidding.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
That's so adjuvant no exactly, exactly.
They're learning all the badhabits.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
No, that's exactly what I'm thinking.
Are the Zs going to end up moreresembling the Xers, if the
Xers are the ones doing thementoring, than the millennials
who are out in the office?
And are we going to see a swingback, if you will, to what all
the and I will say the wordadvancements that the
(24:53):
millennials brought to theworkforce?
Are you going to see a swingback Because?
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I could see that.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
No, I just think that it's really interesting, the
whole return to office andbuying people out.
It's hard enough to hireanybody at all right now, so why
push someone out the door?
Try and find a middle ground.
I know that this whole hybridwork thing I've heard a lot of
people say it's a flop becauseit's not adhered to one way or
(25:26):
the other by by a lot of people.
I I just don't know.
Find find some way to to retainthem, because it's impossible
to hire people right now I thinkit's not impossible.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
This is, this is my two cents.
I I think this is one of thosethings where we're going to get
back to an office culture atsome point, whether it be in
five years, 10 years, 20 years,whatever, like that pendulum
probably will swing back, butit's going to swing back when
the employees want it to swingback.
(26:02):
So and I think we're we mightbe seeing that a little bit more
with Gen Z, like they want tobe more in office.
And now you know, the morepeople you have making something
a norm, the more people aregoing to join into that norm.
So for companies to mandate itand be like you got to come back
or you're fired, I think just alittle.
I mean, in my opinion, if it'snot broken, don't fix it.
(26:27):
I think you know the numbers areout there.
Anyone who's listening to thispodcast has heard the numbers.
Productivity's fine, people arefine.
If you have a bad actor, dealwith the bad actor.
It's not broken right now, butthere will be a time where
people are going to want,they're going to seek hybrid
roles, not 100% remote roles.
They're going to seek that outwhen they go to look for a job
(26:51):
and at that point, that's whenyou're just going to let it
dictate, like don't push it,because you're just going to
push high performers out.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, and that sort of leads me to another thing
along the lines the highperformers.
You know we brought it up anynumber of times you know that
awesome salesperson that hasdifferent rules than anybody
else Because they're driving theincome and okay, we'll let them
get away with being a completea-hole in the office because
(27:18):
they're bringing in the bigbucks, or you know, let them get
away with anything virtually,or let them get away with
anything virtually.
So the high performance,especially when it comes to
things like sales, if you cansell a piece of paper, you can
sell this, you can sell a car.
If you're a good salesperson,the object doesn't matter.
(27:40):
Now, of course, there's a levelwhere passion comes into play,
and if you are into somethingand passionate about something,
that's a different story.
But a good salesperson can selllike they.
They say ice to an eskimo orwhatever there it's.
You know that's what they cando and they can move on.
They can go, probably, findmore money, find a better
commission structure.
Fine, you know if you, if youtry hard enough, you're going to
find another job with moremoney, more whatever it is that
(28:02):
you're looking for yeah and it'sI.
I just I don't want to lose.
I don't want to lose peoplewhen it's hard to hire them and
lose them to somebody who's alittle bit more forward thinking
or flexible or I don't knowwhat the the right term is with
that, but yeah, I don't want tolose people yeah, period.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
yeah, it's funny you said that because they also
mentioned the favoritism inthose hybrid policies.
Like you said, no one's.
I feel like organizations tryto crack the whip and be like
you've got to be in the officethree days a week, but then you
have the top performers who maybe only coming in two days a
(28:45):
week, or maybe they're juststaying next week all at home,
or like there's more flexibilityaround the high performers than
there are everyone else, andthat's something also like that
you just kind of have to beaware of specifically with
hybrid stuff, because people seethat and they sniff it out.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
So I don't know.
I say if it's not a detrimentto your business, if the role
itself is suitable for it, whyfix it?
There's bigger things to worryabout people.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
I did also.
I was texting you earlier today.
I was doing some research usingChatGPT for the first time.
I subscribe to Gemini but forclasses I have to subscribe to
ChatGPT.
So I, for the very first timeever, started my research in
ChatGPT and I'm saying, oh, giveme some ideas for topics for HR
.
What are the hot topics in HRright now?
(29:40):
And it gave me a lot of reallygeneric things like return to
work and DEI and all this.
I'm like no, I want something alittle and I said make it for a
good talking point.
I'll actually find that.
The screenshot I sent, yeah, soit gives me all these topics.
And I say, to further clarify,I'm looking for articles to
(30:02):
discuss in an HR podcast thatfocuses on the cynical side of
HR.
Check GBT's responses Got it.
Thanks for clarifying for acynical HR comedy podcast like
Jaded HR and it goes on fromthere.
I'm getting referenced as myown.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
A few years ago.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
We've made it somewhere, but I think I talked
to the podcast.
I used myself as a source on apaper a few years ago or last
year in a class, and now I'm areference to myself, or we're a
reference to ourself on a chatGPT circle.
Yeah, I'm just.
I was stoked when I saw it.
I had to share it because Iactually had a few minutes this
(30:43):
morning before my day went tocrap where I could.
I was like, oh, I haven't doneany show prep really for this
week and yeah so, yeah, thatjust made me happy.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
All righty.
With all that said, I will saythe voice artist is Andrew Kolpa
and the musicians are theUnderscore Orchestra doing the
song Devil to Devil.
And, as always, I'm Warren, I'mCece and we're here helping you
survive HR, one what-the-fuckmoment at a time.
Thank you.
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