June 26, 2025 • 39 mins
Welcome to the first episode of Sappy Hour — where the conversations are honest, the feelings are unfiltered, and the wisdom comes wrapped in Vans.
In this debut episode, JB Copeland sits down with the internet’s favorite soft-spoken boss, Tim Chiusano — a corporate executive turned poetic truth-teller — to talk about what actually creates a fulfilling life.
They dive into:
•Why fulfillment can feel so out of reach (even when life looks good)
•The difference between self-awareness and self-absorption
•How to become a friend to yourself first
•Why your effort and intention matter more than your outcome
•What it means to live with curiosity, presence, and a little bit of faith
Whether you’re burnt out, trying to “figure it out,” or just need something real in your ears — this conversation might just change your pace.
Thanks for tuning in to JB Copeland's Sappy Hour.
If it moved you, made you think, or made you feel less alone — share it with someone you care about.
Sappy Hotline 888-444-9461
🎙️ Hosted by JB Copeland
📚 Sponsored byIntelligent Change— use code SAPPYHOUR10 for 10% off
📖 My new book Sappy Medium is out now.
Let’s stay connected:
📸 Instagram: @jb_copeland
🌐 Everything else: hoo.be/jbcopeland
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Up next on sappy radio, 44.4 on your FM dial a little
(00:04):
JB, Copeland. He's not licensed,but he's definitely listening.
This is sappy hour. YouYeah, welcome to the very first
(00:35):
ever episode of sappy hourbrought to you by intelligent
change. And I'm really excitedabout today's episode, guys,
because I got to interviewsomeone that I really look up
to, and that taught me so muchin this conversation. He's known
as the Mr. Rogers of thecorporate space. He was an
executive at a huge companywhere he oversaw hundreds of
(00:56):
employees, and he got famousdoing it. I found him during
2020, during the middle of COVIDon social media, and it was like
the boss that I've alwayswanted, and I have a little
write up for him. Here we go.
He's a corporate executive whowears vans, writes poetry on his
lunch breaks, and talks tomillions of strangers, like
(01:19):
their old friends. He didn't setout to become a creator. He just
started telling the truth, thetruth about work, the truth
about being a dad, the truthabout being a boss and
overseeing so many people, andabout trying to stay present
when the world is on fire. Andit turns out, people were
craving that exactly. So today,we're sitting down with the
internet's favorite working dad,existential commentator, and
(01:42):
soft spoken boss of all bosses,the amazing Tim chisano,
you're gonna love it. We'regonna start off with the get
closer cards by intelligentchange. And I have a question
for you, and you have a questionfor me. We picked them. I don't
know your question. You don'tknow my question. You wanna go
first? You want me to go first,first? I gotta say, I love the
fact that we have the datingseries is like the card like,
(02:04):
these are, these are dope, bythe way. I, I thumbed through
them. It was kind of a difficultchoice. I know as to which one
to go with. They're cool. Igotta keep these. I gotta keep
this at home for Kelly and I, Igot,
I got some extra so, all right,I'll give you some please. So
you, how about you ask me firstand then, and then I'll ask you.
(02:25):
Allright, it's a deal. So I chose
if you could be friends withanyone in the world who would
your top choices begood? That's a hard question.
I'll tell you why, as you thinkabout it for a second. Yeah,
tell me why I feel like a lot ofpeople would love to be your
friend, and I think that that'san amazing way that you express
(02:49):
yourself, and that what you getin return from what I've seen in
your content, what I've seenyour comments, and that you have
this openness because of thethings you talk about, how
openly you Talk about them. So Ithought to flip it around a
little bit to get, from yourperspective, who are the people
that would be dope to not justknow or have a dinner with, but
(03:10):
to be friendly with would be abe an interesting one.
This is not, I'm not trying tohave a cliche answer, but like
this is truly what I'm trying tolike work through in my life is,
and I think the first answer is,is myself, I appreciate that and
(03:32):
to be a friend to myself, yeah,because, I mean, I think
performance is both of Ourbackgrounds, me in sports and
influencing, or whatever,whatever this is. And you with,
you know, the corporate job. Andit's like, sometimes I find
myself actually, like 90, 95% ofthe time I find myself not being
(03:55):
a friend to me, yeah, and it,and it, it's just detrimental to
the the gratitude that I couldfeel towards myself in my life.
And I think, I think that's theanswer to question and, and I
don't want it to sound like aselfish answer, because I think
(04:18):
there's so many people that Iwant to be friends with, yeah,
but I think I will never findthose people until I find a way,
and I'm still trying to figureit out, until I find a way to,
like consistently befriendmyself, because when I don't,
and I haven't even in the lasttwo years, Like it's isolating
(04:39):
you, that isolates me totallybecause I'm so in my head. And
it is, it is self centered. Itis these thoughts of like I'm
not good enough or whatever. Andso it's almost like this
subconscious block off to createexternal friends and the people
that are looking. For for me,because I can't come to the
(05:02):
terms with the fact that I'm I'mworthy of my own friendship. My
wife actually showed me a videothe other day, and it was about
how when it comes to healing, wewe can become so self centered.
And as I talk and as I've lookedback in my life, and as I
reflect, it's like there is someself centeredness to it, and I
(05:23):
think that there has to be some,you know, there has to be some
choosing of self in thisprocess, whether it's but at the
same time, one of the best waysto maybe become content in the
moment is to get out of self andfocus on others and not be so
(05:44):
like, why am I letting thisthought or this thread
throughout my life that I'velike? Why am I letting this take
away my joy from right now? Andhow can I, how can I get out of
this? Well, it's, it'sgratitude, and it's, it's
thinking about other people. Andand, so even the question that
(06:04):
you asked is, who? Who would youwant to be your friend? Yep, and
for me to answer me,that is a, if you
think about it as a selfishresponse.
Would you say? Orno, it's, it's a logical
response. I would say, Couldsome people call it selfish? Of
course, but people are going tocall all kinds of things, all
(06:25):
kinds of things. Yeah, havetheir own reasons for calling
them that, right? That's basedoff of their perception or their
perspective on the matter. Idon't think that it's selfish,
though, because you're right inthat if we're not friends with
ourselves first and foremost,then we're screwed, right? It
makes everything else incrediblymore difficult. We're probably
(06:45):
also being far too judgmental ofother people as well, because we
have issues that we have notcome to terms with ourselves,
and then you start to cast thaton other people on a day to day
basis, when really you are theproblem there. It's not the
other person, it's not yourjudgment of them. Plus, there's
that perspective of, if a friendcalled and said, Hey, I have
(07:11):
these problems, or I didsomething wrong, your response
to them, I think a lot of peoplesuffer from this is going to be
different than what yourresponse is to your response is
to yourself, right? I didsomething wrong, and therefore
I'm beat myself up for X, Y andZ reasons. But you wouldn't tell
your friend that, right? Youwouldn't be like, that was
stupid. Why'd you do that? Youmost people are like, that was
(07:35):
stupid. Why did I do that?
That's not helpful. Yeah, toyour other point, like you, you
nailed it from, you know, I'vegot 17 years on you, and I've
never seen an instance whereit's actually helpful to go to
is it helpful to be thoughtfuland to be considerate in
(07:58):
hindsight, so that you can learnfrom something absolutely and
when I was struggling with this,especially over the summer, it
came back to is this actually agood use of time to have these
thoughts right now? And in 9.9cases out of 10, the answer is
no, because you're justliterally wasting time thinking
(08:19):
about things that are nothelpful are toxic for yourself,
that are sending you backwardsrelative to problem solving or
creativity. So I actually thinkit's a super smart answer to say
yourself,and the goal at the end would
be, I'm afriend. I'm a friend to me, so
(08:41):
I can be a true friend to otherstotally and a better friend
others too, like you can. Iwould say you can be a true
friend to others, but you can bea way better friend to others
when you're truly a friend toyourself. First and foremost,
I'm gonna ask you my question,and I'm just, I'm honestly just
curious, and it is, do youbelieve in God, the universe or
(09:04):
a higher power?
Wow, that's an amazing question.
It's actually one that I knowthe answer to, so it's helpful
that you went with one that Idon't have to sit here and be
like, Well, wait, let me thinkabout that. The answer is, I do
not know, and I'm totally okaywith that. I honestly I don't
know if there's God. Myassumption is that there is some
sort of higher power, that thereis something that sparks the
(09:25):
magic that is somewhatunexplainable in either
scientific terms, or it evenmight have some sort of
scientific explanation behind itthat I'm just not aware of,
because science is pervasive, inmy humble opinion, but it just
feels too magical toother worldly at times, and that
(09:51):
could just be a sunset, thatcould be a flower, that could be
a feeling, that could be aconversation with my daughter.
You. That has an element to it,that, to me, gives me enough
doubt in regards to there notbeing a god, but at the same
time too, I don't know. I don'tI just, I don't know, yeah, I
(10:15):
would say that there's a apositive Guiding Light, I think,
is a very healthy thing to keepin the back of your mind that
can help bring that how can I bea friend of myself? Piece
together that's not numbing,that's just giving you that
understanding, my mom loved tosay, and this has stuck with me
(10:38):
forever. You have two choices inlife. You can have a good time
or you can have a bad time. Shesaid that to me in the middle of
having a bit of a kid momentwhen I was like, five or six and
other kids showed up to play atmy rock in Central Park, and I
was an only child that was like,This is my rock. Like, why are
other kids on my rock? And mymom was like, you've got two
choices. You can have a goodtime or a bad time, and that has
(11:01):
stuck with me throughout so Ithink that, yeah, you know. So
there'sone you draw your faith or hope
from a positive Guiding Light,totally. I think that that is
beautifully put. And then youcan get into the conversation
philosophically, of like, well,is there like, a negative
Guiding Light or guidingdarkness?
I've, I've got, I've got athought on that. Okay, and this
(11:22):
comes from actually studyingexecutive coaching. Oddly
enough, there's two types ofenergy in the world. There's
anabolic and there's catabolic.
Anabolic is the positive energy.
Catabolic is the negativeenergy. From there, there's a
whole bunch of different waysthat we can sort through that
and then utilize it on a day today basis. But I think from a
(11:43):
guiding light perspective,there's something to be said
that can go back to, if there'stwo types of energy at the you
know, speaking very broadly,then that can at least give us a
sense of where is where our dayto day choices, and how are we
directing that with the thingswe're doing, what we can
(12:05):
control, what we cannot control.
And I think that that can helpset up a really positive day, a
really positive interaction, orgive you a better sense as to
how do I deal with thissituation, be it a text message
that's annoying or some sort ofbigger conundrum or emergency
that you need to deal with twotypes of energy. I want to try
to be in the anabolic state asmuch as humanly possible, based
(12:28):
off of what is, what potentialexists. And again, that can be
something super small or likereally, really big. And that
helps me consistently when itcomes to you can have a good
time or you can have a bad time,okay, but then how do you
actually sort through that? Whatare the actionable steps there?
And this is part of where mycorporate brain starts to kick
(12:50):
in a little bit to get more thespecific like decision making
elements as to, okay, well, thenwhat are you going to do about
this thing, having spent a longtime trying to solve other
people's problems and businessproblems holistically, you want
to cut to the chase super fast,and a lot you want to digest,
and you want to be smart andthoughtful, but at the same time
too, you want to be specific andintentional with like, what can
(13:13):
we actually do here? And to me,that made it easy. And now that
I'm not in the corporate spaceon on a daily basis anymore,
there are some things too, that,just in the higher sense of
anabolic versus catabolic, dohelp me, relative to how I just
show up and how I interact, andhow do I immediately be like,
(13:35):
Oh, 1,000% I'm Coming to Dallasand like, whatever the specifics
are, logistics, we'll sortthrough that. But let's, let's
go towards that positive GuidingLight.
I love that. So I think myfollow up question, so we're
done with the question cards, sowe're good, all right, but I
have a follow up and I reallywhat you're saying leads into
(13:58):
what I was gonna ask you. But Ithink all of us, deep down,
simply put, we want to choosethat good energy. I want to have
a good time, not a bad time.
Yeah, and I think that's what alot of people want, is to figure
out, how do I have a good time?
And maybe it's like notcomplicated, and I don't think
(14:19):
that it is. But for you,how do you have a good time?
That'sa great question. It's actually
way more jarring than the firstquestion, how do I have a good
time? It is. It has to be abalance of to your and, if to
your answer, being friendly withmyself, and to use that as a
counterbalance to well, whatdoes good look like for this
(14:43):
thing? And that could be for howI wake up, for how I get down
the stairs, like I can thenbreak that down into micro
instances throughout the courseof a day, and then what are my
choices in those moments? Whatare my choices when I wake up,
when the alarm goes off, hitsnooze, go back to bed, be in a
(15:04):
bad mood, stub my toe. Maybethat's not a choice. I just do
it anyway, like there's all ofthose things that then become
these, like micro instances ofwhere you're choosing one or the
other, and allowing ourselves tounderstand that those are
actually choices and that thesethings are not happening to you.
I think a place where people getstuck is to assume that there is
(15:29):
no choice in the matter. When Iwas at ESPN, they brought this
guy in because there were somechallenges between the marketing
team and the sales team, andlike it was almost a
relationship manager of sortsfor corporate situations, and he
was giving the speech aboutchoice, right? How many times do
(15:49):
we in a given day, whether it'swork, whether it's family, are
like, Well, I didn't have achoice, or you feel like you
don't have a choice in themoment and that you're going to
then do something based off ofcircumstances, and not
necessarily like, this is howI'm going to control the
situation, even if it's notcontrol, it's how are you going
to guide or how are you going toaccept the fact that you can
(16:11):
choose? And so he's talkingabout choice, and tells a story
of giving the same speech atanother company, and somebody
stands up and is like, this is acrock of shit. Like, there are
some things in life that youabsolutely do not have a choice
about. I was drafted intoVietnam. I had to go to boot
camp. They taught me how to firea gun. I got on a plane. They
(16:32):
sent me over there. I got off. Iwas in war. I shot a gun. I
killed people. Like I did nothave a choice. And apparently,
as the story was told, guy stopsdead in his tracks, and he's
like, oh shit, I actually I hada choice. I may not have liked
what my choices were, but Iguess I could have gone to jail.
(16:56):
I could have moved to Canada, Icould have tried to run away
from this and get my fingerscrossed I don't get caught. I
chose to accept being drafted,and I chose, and it's an extreme
story, but I think the point ofwe always have a choice, I
(17:21):
shouldn't say always, in a vastmajority of situations, on a day
in and day out basis, we aregoing to have a choice. We may
not like the choices that wehave, but they're always there.
I don't have to go home afterthis. I could go back to the
airport and be like, spin aglobe. I'm going there and
bounce. Not gonna do that.
1,000% gonna go back to Brooklynand be super stoked when I walk
(17:44):
back in the door to see myfamily. But we've so often pin
ourselves in these situationswhere you just don't have a
choice. And that could be Ididn't have a choice but to wake
up today at this time to do thatthing, to go to that job that I
do not like, and I think onceyou accept that you do have a
(18:05):
choice and far more situations,and you give yourself credit for
then that can be one of theplaces where you start to free
yourself. When I was in some ofthe darkest places at my job,
and felt like all of thesethings were happening to me. I'm
overwhelmed. I've got too muchwork. There's too much pressure.
I've got a toxic situationhappening for whole bunch of
(18:27):
different reasons. Talked aboutsome of that in the car too, and
this is just happening to me,and I'm just going to be that
guy that gets a nicecompensation package and like,
I'll just kind of go down thatpath and kind of numb myself to
these other things, versus, oh,no wait, I actually have a
(18:48):
choice in this matter. It'sgoing to mean getting up at four
o'clock in the morning every dayand doing these things and
setting myself up this way totry to control things.
And I'm not guaranteed anoutcome with that either.
So it's okay. You have to beokay to accept the fact that you
do have a choice when it'sreally, really hard to be like,
(19:09):
actually, I can choose here, tochoose the more difficult path,
or to accept the fact that youeven can go down that route and
then, and then be okay with thefact that that doesn't mean it's
guaranteed either, like, Okay,I'm going to choose to control
the situation that I'm in, totry to change the fact that it's
a toxic environment, and I'mguaranteed nothing by making
(19:32):
that choice, right? Because youwant to believe you either don't
have a choice, so that when youmake that choice, x is going to
happen, if you can be like,cool, I have choices, and I have
no idea what's actually going tocome of this that at least for
me, and especially in like inthe work circumstances I found
myself in, becameextraordinarily freeing. It's
(19:54):
like, you ain't in control. I'min control. At a poster. My
office that said, think someoneunder the table, and that was
very important to me, because Ineeded to remind myself
consistently that I can have asmuch control as I want to give
myself credit for, and I wouldnever do it in a mean way. I
(20:17):
mean, I'm on the record and gotyou know, a lot of content that
shows how I interacted. My teameven made me a Tiktok when I
left. And I'm very comfortablesaying I did things the right
way. In large part, you had agood time and a good time, and I
was pleasant, and like that wasmy number my number one KPI
work. And I didn't think aboutthis until I was leaving. Was
(20:39):
like being as pleasant ashumanly possible, and being okay
to have the understanding thatthere's a choice you don't know
what the hell is gonna happen,and then to be pleasant
throughout, to me that like,just unlocked all of these
things that led to me being okaywith making content and being
more awkward and kind ofclimbing cringe mountain, as
(21:00):
they say, in all of thosethings, being like, I'm choosing
to do this. I don't know wherethe hell it's going, and that's
okay, and as long as I'mpleasant along the way, then,
like, Let's go have a rip andhave fun. I love that.
Yeah, I think it's crazy to meas you're saying that, like,
(21:21):
just my own reflection of theamount of times I can play
stuff, stuff off and say it'sout of my control. Really what,
what I feel like you're sayingis, is you have the permission
to be honest with yourself, andyou have the permission to make
(21:42):
the decision that you feel likeis the best decision for you.
And those decisions aren't justbig decisions, but they're micro
decisions throughout your day today basis.
Totally, I think you should giveyourself more credit in regards
to that like choice and controlpiece, because I think what you
talk about is relative tobecause there's also the the
(22:05):
understanding, while you mayhave these choices, you may not
give yourself enough credit forchoices on a day to day basis,
there's also a just like a vastmajority of the world, that's
out of your control on aconsistent basis. Yeah, and you
in you like, you have to acceptthat, right, because then you
can be more specific andintentional with what can I
(22:26):
actually choose? You can't beyou can't say, Well, I have a
choice in regards to how Ichange that person. You have a
choice in regards to how youinteract with that person. Self
control your what you what youcan control relative to just
what's on your side of thetable, right? And then it and
then it even makes it easier forthose things that you don't, you
(22:48):
don't get to choose what theirresponse is, right? I think that
that's the delineation I'vealways felt like when you have
that conversation that you'reyou give that distinction
because there is so much thatyou do have to let go of in that
regard?
Yeah, and that's what you said.
You said, you know you're goingto be making these choices, and
you might be, they might bechoices that everyone else is
(23:09):
like, why would you make thatchoice? But then you also have
to let go of the outcome. And Ithink that's where faith and
hope comes in to the picture.
And so it's not only is itthinking someone under the
table, or believing that you'resmart and believing that you
have the ability to make thesedecisions and that you can be in
(23:29):
control of your life, but it'salso having faith in
the future. Yeah, and it alwayscame down to me, especially when
I had the biggest questions ofdoubt for myself. Why am I doing
this? Why am I making thatdecision? Why am I pushing
(23:50):
towards something from abusiness perspective, how am I
acting as a dad? Are myintentions good and are my
efforts solid? That's good. Andif I could check those two
boxes, I have to be okay withthe vast majority of the things
that are around that, becauseotherwise, to your earlier point
of like being friends withyourself, if I can't, if, if I'm
(24:11):
checking those boxes, and I'mstill restricting myself or
being too hard on myself, Thenyou're taking trying off the
table. And I think when we dothat, that's when it becomes
super dangerous. And if I evertake trying off the table, then
I got nothing, right? Then I'mnot trying to whether it's a
(24:36):
really small thing, like, youknow what I would select to go
for a run before I get on theplane to come to Dallas, or to
wrap my head around cool I'vejust been traveling, but I
really want to do like and thosethings, especially when
compounded over time. I thinkthe luxury of being 47 now is
(24:56):
having seen things repeated overand over and over again, and
seeing. The cumulative effect ofsome of the things that we're
discussing right now, and thatthose decisions, especially,
it's like the same thing as adiet or working out or
meditation, you're never goingto see an immediate result, but
over time and compounded, it canbe beyond your wildest dreams.
(25:19):
And so some of those decisions,and especially that, like,
ability to let go, but also becool with fully accepting what
you can and cannot choose tohave some sort of impact on
accepting the fact you havechoice letting go of like, what
that choice may actually dooutcome wise, then you're just
(25:40):
like, cool, I'm got, I got, whatI got. Let's roll and let's have
some fun. Good intentions.
Yeah, I Yeah. So you saideffort, yep. And are your
intentions? Is my effort and myintentions? And so I think, I
think that right there is ananswer to my question and an
(26:02):
answer for a lot of people. Andit's, it's simple, like, because
even having this conversationmakes me feel better about
myself, good, because I thinkall of us can question our
intentions at times, but at theend of the day, like, I know my
intentions are pure and I knowthat I'm putting in effort, and
then in the in between of that,waiting on the outcome or
(26:23):
whatever, even if it's notwaiting, I just need to be
living and enjoying, kind oflike you're saying, choose it.
Let's choose the good, but likeI can let off the pressure,
because I know that my intentionand my effort is there. Yeah,
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(29:07):
be so grounded and so herethat you're not there or there.
If that makessense, it makes total sense, and
it came back to the acceptanceof what I could control and what
I could control and what I couldnot control, especially having
to go from meeting to meeting tomeeting to meeting. And it
(29:28):
really stemmed from how do Iwant to behave and how do I want
to impact other people? And Isaw there being a massive lack
of self awareness in a lot ofsituations that I was in at
work, and that rose that broughtall kinds of questions to mind,
of like, why is that happening?
(29:50):
Is there something here that I'mmissing, where that that's like
a necessary piece of beingsuccessful, you almost have to
create this persona, and thenyou have to be out. Inside of
yourself and not as present andnot as aware in order to do big,
difficult things, because thenyou're pushing towards
something. It's like you createdthis character, this avatar, and
that's the thing that's drivingthings forward, versus being
(30:13):
okay to be like, No, this is whoI am and like, this is how I
want to behave, and these arethe situations I would like to
create and digesting that a lotmade me and I'm just kind of,
I've got a bit of a stonermindset, and I love it. I I get
so curious as to not only why isthis person in a bad mood or
(30:35):
acting this way in this meeting,but why did they choose that
shirt? But not today. It's like,why did they go to the store and
like they looked around? They'relike, cool, that one. And I try
to connect all those piecestogether to get a better
understanding as to who thepeople are that are around me,
so I can meet them where theyare on a consistent basis,
(30:58):
because then I can control thedynamic, which sounds odd, and I
don't use the think someoneunder the table, or the control
the dynamic, or the mentaljujitsu. Your intentions are
good, yeah, because myintentions are good and i just i
It allows me to be more present,correct? I can then sit there
and feel like, okay, cool. Ihave I can control what I can
(31:19):
control. I cannot control what Icannot control. I have a good
understanding of this person,both in the curiosity from a
micro perspective of why didthey choose that shirt, or
what's what was that scene?
Literally think of that scene ofthem at the store going through
the rack and being like, coolthis one, and then have that
compound into how they'rebehaving in the moment, and at
least my interpretation of it.
(31:41):
And that's enough that wouldjust center you and make you
present anyway, right? Likethat's a lot of different
thoughts to try to combine intoa given situation. Well,
there's a selflessness to it,kind of what I brought up
earlier, of your your focus isnot so inward. I think that
(32:01):
there's a difference betweenbeing self absorbed and self
aware. Yep. And I thinksometimes we can think that
that's the same thing, yep, and,and what you're talking about is
self awareness. Self absorptionis, is lack of awareness because
you're so in but you're saying,you're saying the way that you
pre present yourself isby thinking of others
(32:27):
I honestly love. Yeah, I hadn'tthought of it that way, and you
just stated it in a verybrilliant and eloquent fashion
that honestly had not crossed mymind quite like that. But no,
you're spot on. It's and it'seven, I'll give myself a little
less credit in that, it's justout of genuine curiosity. And
again, almost that. And it'sYeah, or the or the stoner
(32:50):
mentality, right? Like, I think,man, that's like, that's a,
that's a, you know, be like,That's a wild shirt. Man. Like,
why did that person or, like,where did that come from? What
was the decision, decisionbehind that? And it also the
being present and being aware,especially as things got as
(33:10):
chaotic as they were during themost intense times of my career.
I lived at the, you know, in themidst of a of the biggest cable
merger and the history of ofcompany's existence, you know,
three companies, they, all of asudden came together and created
100,000 person company. Youknow, all the systems in the job
(33:31):
descriptions and like,everything that had to get
reinvented during that time, letalone the story of the Thursday
before my first day on the job,when they brought me in and
said, you can have to fire all100 people that you're about to
inherit and start the departmentfrom scratch. You get six weeks
to make the first announcement,eight months to rebuild the
department. I was 35 I was like,very much. Did not have the
(33:56):
background. And even somebodyfrom HR was like, I didn't think
you had any shot of doing this,like on those times, and you
know this could be, I'd besurprised if you didn't have
elements of this in your sportscareer, where being present
almost helps you overcome thatsense of this is overwhelming,
(34:20):
and if you think about all ofthe outside forces that are
creating that chaos, but all youcan deal with is that one play
or that one player in front ofyou, yeah, you can't worry about
whether or not the special teamsis going to go then do X, Y or
Z, or there's there's elementsto even the training, where you
(34:45):
can't fix your speed and yourstrength, maybe you can fix your
speed and your strength at thesame time. But there's like,
there's elements of beingfocused, where if you're too
caught in outside things, in agiven moment, a you're not doing
the other person any good. Fauciin meetings, right? You have a
better chance of being a jerkbecause you're not truly able to
(35:08):
give Okay, I am here rightduring my craziest days when I
was trying to make all thetiktoks and trying to have eight
hours of meetings and make sureI called my wife on my way to
lunch. And am I thoughtful aboutasking how the quiz went at
school. When I get home, it waswhoever I'm talking to that's in
my calendar that I'm having thatmeeting with. They don't give a
(35:31):
shit about all of those otherthings. They shouldn't, and even
if they're the kind of personthat's like, Wow, you got 1000
things going on. Like, thank youfor doing blah, blah, blah. It's
like, I again, I chose to behere. I chose to be doing this
thing. So it's easier almostthen to block out all the rest
of it and be like, cool, I'mhere. I'm in this moment, and
this is all I can control. Andthen it just kind of feels a bit
(35:54):
lighter too. Like, oh, why? Whyshould I be concerned about all
these things that I literallycannot control right now. And
then I am more present. And thenI enjoy it more too, because I'm
not trying to carry around moreweight than I'm capable of
carrying around.
Really, what I've taken fromthis is, are
(36:14):
your intentions good? Are yougiving effort?
And are you curious? What didyour mom
say? Have a good time or have abad time? Yeah. Do you want to
have a good time or do you wantto have a bad time?
Yeah. Simply put, I think thatthat is
maybe an answer that a lot of ushave been looking for. Number
(36:38):
one, do you want to have a goodtime or bad time. I'll let you
choose number two, like, Let'sget your intentions set. Like,
what? What's fueling you? And Ithink it's, I think it's
awesome, you know, using thosequotes like, think someone under
the table because yourintentions are good. There's too
many people in this world withvery bad intentions that are
(36:59):
thinking people under the tableand screwing people. And there
needs to be more people withreally good intentions to
understand how smart they are.
Andsuch a such a brilliant way to
put it, yeah, because everybodydeserves that. Yes, a little bit
of Audacity. Yes, a little bitof Audacity.
Yeah, andbeing present and finding that
(37:22):
curiosity, I think that is abeautiful
way of life. Sappy hour isbrought to you by intelligent
change. And guess what? I justwrote a book with intelligent
change. Been working on it forabout a year and a half, and I'm
so excited about it. Sappymedium. The rough draft is here.
(37:43):
It hit the market last week. Sowhile I have you, I want to read
you a quick little paragraphfrom the book. Tell me what you
think your soul will always pullyou to exactly where you belong.
And I say that, and we allthink, oh, you know, that sounds
great, when in reality, ourintuition can ask us to do
uncomfortable things that oftendon't make sense in the moment,
(38:07):
but if we learn to listen, evenif we don't understand, life
will begin to unfold in a verymagical way. If you like little
quotes like that and want tohave something to read every
single day. This is the book foryou, and because you're
listening, I wanna let you in ona little secret here, if you use
the code sappy hour 10, you'llget 10% off all the info that
(38:31):
you need is in the description.
The link is there. The code isthere. I hope sappy medium can
become your little book ofinspiration.
I love this conversation.
I really appreciate you comingto Dallas. Is there?
There's one thing that you couldsay to the people watching, just
leave them with something.
(38:53):
What would it be give yourselfbenefit of the doubt
when you're allowed to go backto how this conversation started
with your answer about needingto be your own friend first,
which is critical, when you'reable to give others benefit of
the doubt, you can take the highroad. When you can take the high
(39:14):
road, I think you're just youcan be happier, but it has to
start with yourself, right? Sogive yourself benefit of the
doubt and and lean into itbecause it's yes, it's all I
got.
Well, thank you. I love that.
Thanks for coming to sappy housepowered by intelligent change.
I'm going to get you a fiveminute journal, and I'm going to
(39:35):
get you these closer cards,because I'd love for you to to
number one, go to the journalwith me, because I'm doing it,
and it's something that'shelping me in my hot mess. And
then I think you and your wifeand maybe your daughter would
like to get closer cards.
Oh, 1,000% journal me up andlet's play some cards. Dope.
Thanks, brother, yes. Thank you.
And cut.
Up next on sappy radio, 44.4 on your FM dial a little
(00:04):
JB, Copeland. He's not licensed,but he's definitely listening.
This is sappy hour. YouYeah, welcome to the very first
(00:35):
ever episode of sappy hourbrought to you by intelligent
change. And I'm really excitedabout today's episode, guys,
because I got to interviewsomeone that I really look up
to, and that taught me so muchin this conversation. He's known
as the Mr. Rogers of thecorporate space. He was an
executive at a huge companywhere he oversaw hundreds of
(00:56):
employees, and he got famousdoing it. I found him during
2020, during the middle of COVIDon social media, and it was like
the boss that I've alwayswanted, and I have a little
write up for him. Here we go.
He's a corporate executive whowears vans, writes poetry on his
lunch breaks, and talks tomillions of strangers, like
(01:19):
their old friends. He didn't setout to become a creator. He just
started telling the truth, thetruth about work, the truth
about being a dad, the truthabout being a boss and
overseeing so many people, andabout trying to stay present
when the world is on fire. Andit turns out, people were
craving that exactly. So today,we're sitting down with the
internet's favorite working dad,existential commentator, and
(01:42):
soft spoken boss of all bosses,the amazing Tim chisano,
you're gonna love it. We'regonna start off with the get
closer cards by intelligentchange. And I have a question
for you, and you have a questionfor me. We picked them. I don't
know your question. You don'tknow my question. You wanna go
first? You want me to go first,first? I gotta say, I love the
fact that we have the datingseries is like the card like,
(02:04):
these are, these are dope, bythe way. I, I thumbed through
them. It was kind of a difficultchoice. I know as to which one
to go with. They're cool. Igotta keep these. I gotta keep
this at home for Kelly and I, Igot,
I got some extra so, all right,I'll give you some please. So
you, how about you ask me firstand then, and then I'll ask you.
(02:25):
Allright, it's a deal. So I chose
if you could be friends withanyone in the world who would
your top choices begood? That's a hard question.
I'll tell you why, as you thinkabout it for a second. Yeah,
tell me why I feel like a lot ofpeople would love to be your
friend, and I think that that'san amazing way that you express
(02:49):
yourself, and that what you getin return from what I've seen in
your content, what I've seenyour comments, and that you have
this openness because of thethings you talk about, how
openly you Talk about them. So Ithought to flip it around a
little bit to get, from yourperspective, who are the people
that would be dope to not justknow or have a dinner with, but
(03:10):
to be friendly with would be abe an interesting one.
This is not, I'm not trying tohave a cliche answer, but like
this is truly what I'm trying tolike work through in my life is,
and I think the first answer is,is myself, I appreciate that and
(03:32):
to be a friend to myself, yeah,because, I mean, I think
performance is both of Ourbackgrounds, me in sports and
influencing, or whatever,whatever this is. And you with,
you know, the corporate job. Andit's like, sometimes I find
myself actually, like 90, 95% ofthe time I find myself not being
(03:55):
a friend to me, yeah, and it,and it, it's just detrimental to
the the gratitude that I couldfeel towards myself in my life.
And I think, I think that's theanswer to question and, and I
don't want it to sound like aselfish answer, because I think
(04:18):
there's so many people that Iwant to be friends with, yeah,
but I think I will never findthose people until I find a way,
and I'm still trying to figureit out, until I find a way to,
like consistently befriendmyself, because when I don't,
and I haven't even in the lasttwo years, Like it's isolating
(04:39):
you, that isolates me totallybecause I'm so in my head. And
it is, it is self centered. Itis these thoughts of like I'm
not good enough or whatever. Andso it's almost like this
subconscious block off to createexternal friends and the people
that are looking. For for me,because I can't come to the
(05:02):
terms with the fact that I'm I'mworthy of my own friendship. My
wife actually showed me a videothe other day, and it was about
how when it comes to healing, wewe can become so self centered.
And as I talk and as I've lookedback in my life, and as I
reflect, it's like there is someself centeredness to it, and I
(05:23):
think that there has to be some,you know, there has to be some
choosing of self in thisprocess, whether it's but at the
same time, one of the best waysto maybe become content in the
moment is to get out of self andfocus on others and not be so
(05:44):
like, why am I letting thisthought or this thread
throughout my life that I'velike? Why am I letting this take
away my joy from right now? Andhow can I, how can I get out of
this? Well, it's, it'sgratitude, and it's, it's
thinking about other people. Andand, so even the question that
(06:04):
you asked is, who? Who would youwant to be your friend? Yep, and
for me to answer me,that is a, if you
think about it as a selfishresponse.
Would you say? Orno, it's, it's a logical
response. I would say, Couldsome people call it selfish? Of
course, but people are going tocall all kinds of things, all
(06:25):
kinds of things. Yeah, havetheir own reasons for calling
them that, right? That's basedoff of their perception or their
perspective on the matter. Idon't think that it's selfish,
though, because you're right inthat if we're not friends with
ourselves first and foremost,then we're screwed, right? It
makes everything else incrediblymore difficult. We're probably
(06:45):
also being far too judgmental ofother people as well, because we
have issues that we have notcome to terms with ourselves,
and then you start to cast thaton other people on a day to day
basis, when really you are theproblem there. It's not the
other person, it's not yourjudgment of them. Plus, there's
that perspective of, if a friendcalled and said, Hey, I have
(07:11):
these problems, or I didsomething wrong, your response
to them, I think a lot of peoplesuffer from this is going to be
different than what yourresponse is to your response is
to yourself, right? I didsomething wrong, and therefore
I'm beat myself up for X, Y andZ reasons. But you wouldn't tell
your friend that, right? Youwouldn't be like, that was
stupid. Why'd you do that? Youmost people are like, that was
(07:35):
stupid. Why did I do that?
That's not helpful. Yeah, toyour other point, like you, you
nailed it from, you know, I'vegot 17 years on you, and I've
never seen an instance whereit's actually helpful to go to
is it helpful to be thoughtfuland to be considerate in
(07:58):
hindsight, so that you can learnfrom something absolutely and
when I was struggling with this,especially over the summer, it
came back to is this actually agood use of time to have these
thoughts right now? And in 9.9cases out of 10, the answer is
no, because you're justliterally wasting time thinking
(08:19):
about things that are nothelpful are toxic for yourself,
that are sending you backwardsrelative to problem solving or
creativity. So I actually thinkit's a super smart answer to say
yourself,and the goal at the end would
be, I'm afriend. I'm a friend to me, so
(08:41):
I can be a true friend to otherstotally and a better friend
others too, like you can. Iwould say you can be a true
friend to others, but you can bea way better friend to others
when you're truly a friend toyourself. First and foremost,
I'm gonna ask you my question,and I'm just, I'm honestly just
curious, and it is, do youbelieve in God, the universe or
(09:04):
a higher power?
Wow, that's an amazing question.
It's actually one that I knowthe answer to, so it's helpful
that you went with one that Idon't have to sit here and be
like, Well, wait, let me thinkabout that. The answer is, I do
not know, and I'm totally okaywith that. I honestly I don't
know if there's God. Myassumption is that there is some
sort of higher power, that thereis something that sparks the
(09:25):
magic that is somewhatunexplainable in either
scientific terms, or it evenmight have some sort of
scientific explanation behind itthat I'm just not aware of,
because science is pervasive, inmy humble opinion, but it just
feels too magical toother worldly at times, and that
(09:51):
could just be a sunset, thatcould be a flower, that could be
a feeling, that could be aconversation with my daughter.
You. That has an element to it,that, to me, gives me enough
doubt in regards to there notbeing a god, but at the same
time too, I don't know. I don'tI just, I don't know, yeah, I
(10:15):
would say that there's a apositive Guiding Light, I think,
is a very healthy thing to keepin the back of your mind that
can help bring that how can I bea friend of myself? Piece
together that's not numbing,that's just giving you that
understanding, my mom loved tosay, and this has stuck with me
(10:38):
forever. You have two choices inlife. You can have a good time
or you can have a bad time. Shesaid that to me in the middle of
having a bit of a kid momentwhen I was like, five or six and
other kids showed up to play atmy rock in Central Park, and I
was an only child that was like,This is my rock. Like, why are
other kids on my rock? And mymom was like, you've got two
choices. You can have a goodtime or a bad time, and that has
(11:01):
stuck with me throughout so Ithink that, yeah, you know. So
there'sone you draw your faith or hope
from a positive Guiding Light,totally. I think that that is
beautifully put. And then youcan get into the conversation
philosophically, of like, well,is there like, a negative
Guiding Light or guidingdarkness?
I've, I've got, I've got athought on that. Okay, and this
(11:22):
comes from actually studyingexecutive coaching. Oddly
enough, there's two types ofenergy in the world. There's
anabolic and there's catabolic.
Anabolic is the positive energy.
Catabolic is the negativeenergy. From there, there's a
whole bunch of different waysthat we can sort through that
and then utilize it on a day today basis. But I think from a
(11:43):
guiding light perspective,there's something to be said
that can go back to, if there'stwo types of energy at the you
know, speaking very broadly,then that can at least give us a
sense of where is where our dayto day choices, and how are we
directing that with the thingswe're doing, what we can
(12:05):
control, what we cannot control.
And I think that that can helpset up a really positive day, a
really positive interaction, orgive you a better sense as to
how do I deal with thissituation, be it a text message
that's annoying or some sort ofbigger conundrum or emergency
that you need to deal with twotypes of energy. I want to try
to be in the anabolic state asmuch as humanly possible, based
(12:28):
off of what is, what potentialexists. And again, that can be
something super small or likereally, really big. And that
helps me consistently when itcomes to you can have a good
time or you can have a bad time,okay, but then how do you
actually sort through that? Whatare the actionable steps there?
And this is part of where mycorporate brain starts to kick
(12:50):
in a little bit to get more thespecific like decision making
elements as to, okay, well, thenwhat are you going to do about
this thing, having spent a longtime trying to solve other
people's problems and businessproblems holistically, you want
to cut to the chase super fast,and a lot you want to digest,
and you want to be smart andthoughtful, but at the same time
too, you want to be specific andintentional with like, what can
(13:13):
we actually do here? And to me,that made it easy. And now that
I'm not in the corporate spaceon on a daily basis anymore,
there are some things too, that,just in the higher sense of
anabolic versus catabolic, dohelp me, relative to how I just
show up and how I interact, andhow do I immediately be like,
(13:35):
Oh, 1,000% I'm Coming to Dallasand like, whatever the specifics
are, logistics, we'll sortthrough that. But let's, let's
go towards that positive GuidingLight.
I love that. So I think myfollow up question, so we're
done with the question cards, sowe're good, all right, but I
have a follow up and I reallywhat you're saying leads into
(13:58):
what I was gonna ask you. But Ithink all of us, deep down,
simply put, we want to choosethat good energy. I want to have
a good time, not a bad time.
Yeah, and I think that's what alot of people want, is to figure
out, how do I have a good time?
And maybe it's like notcomplicated, and I don't think
(14:19):
that it is. But for you,how do you have a good time?
That'sa great question. It's actually
way more jarring than the firstquestion, how do I have a good
time? It is. It has to be abalance of to your and, if to
your answer, being friendly withmyself, and to use that as a
counterbalance to well, whatdoes good look like for this
(14:43):
thing? And that could be for howI wake up, for how I get down
the stairs, like I can thenbreak that down into micro
instances throughout the courseof a day, and then what are my
choices in those moments? Whatare my choices when I wake up,
when the alarm goes off, hitsnooze, go back to bed, be in a
(15:04):
bad mood, stub my toe. Maybethat's not a choice. I just do
it anyway, like there's all ofthose things that then become
these, like micro instances ofwhere you're choosing one or the
other, and allowing ourselves tounderstand that those are
actually choices and that thesethings are not happening to you.
I think a place where people getstuck is to assume that there is
(15:29):
no choice in the matter. When Iwas at ESPN, they brought this
guy in because there were somechallenges between the marketing
team and the sales team, andlike it was almost a
relationship manager of sortsfor corporate situations, and he
was giving the speech aboutchoice, right? How many times do
(15:49):
we in a given day, whether it'swork, whether it's family, are
like, Well, I didn't have achoice, or you feel like you
don't have a choice in themoment and that you're going to
then do something based off ofcircumstances, and not
necessarily like, this is howI'm going to control the
situation, even if it's notcontrol, it's how are you going
to guide or how are you going toaccept the fact that you can
(16:11):
choose? And so he's talkingabout choice, and tells a story
of giving the same speech atanother company, and somebody
stands up and is like, this is acrock of shit. Like, there are
some things in life that youabsolutely do not have a choice
about. I was drafted intoVietnam. I had to go to boot
camp. They taught me how to firea gun. I got on a plane. They
(16:32):
sent me over there. I got off. Iwas in war. I shot a gun. I
killed people. Like I did nothave a choice. And apparently,
as the story was told, guy stopsdead in his tracks, and he's
like, oh shit, I actually I hada choice. I may not have liked
what my choices were, but Iguess I could have gone to jail.
(16:56):
I could have moved to Canada, Icould have tried to run away
from this and get my fingerscrossed I don't get caught. I
chose to accept being drafted,and I chose, and it's an extreme
story, but I think the point ofwe always have a choice, I
(17:21):
shouldn't say always, in a vastmajority of situations, on a day
in and day out basis, we aregoing to have a choice. We may
not like the choices that wehave, but they're always there.
I don't have to go home afterthis. I could go back to the
airport and be like, spin aglobe. I'm going there and
bounce. Not gonna do that.
1,000% gonna go back to Brooklynand be super stoked when I walk
(17:44):
back in the door to see myfamily. But we've so often pin
ourselves in these situationswhere you just don't have a
choice. And that could be Ididn't have a choice but to wake
up today at this time to do thatthing, to go to that job that I
do not like, and I think onceyou accept that you do have a
(18:05):
choice and far more situations,and you give yourself credit for
then that can be one of theplaces where you start to free
yourself. When I was in some ofthe darkest places at my job,
and felt like all of thesethings were happening to me. I'm
overwhelmed. I've got too muchwork. There's too much pressure.
I've got a toxic situationhappening for whole bunch of
(18:27):
different reasons. Talked aboutsome of that in the car too, and
this is just happening to me,and I'm just going to be that
guy that gets a nicecompensation package and like,
I'll just kind of go down thatpath and kind of numb myself to
these other things, versus, oh,no wait, I actually have a
(18:48):
choice in this matter. It'sgoing to mean getting up at four
o'clock in the morning every dayand doing these things and
setting myself up this way totry to control things.
And I'm not guaranteed anoutcome with that either.
So it's okay. You have to beokay to accept the fact that you
do have a choice when it'sreally, really hard to be like,
(19:09):
actually, I can choose here, tochoose the more difficult path,
or to accept the fact that youeven can go down that route and
then, and then be okay with thefact that that doesn't mean it's
guaranteed either, like, Okay,I'm going to choose to control
the situation that I'm in, totry to change the fact that it's
a toxic environment, and I'mguaranteed nothing by making
(19:32):
that choice, right? Because youwant to believe you either don't
have a choice, so that when youmake that choice, x is going to
happen, if you can be like,cool, I have choices, and I have
no idea what's actually going tocome of this that at least for
me, and especially in like inthe work circumstances I found
myself in, becameextraordinarily freeing. It's
(19:54):
like, you ain't in control. I'min control. At a poster. My
office that said, think someoneunder the table, and that was
very important to me, because Ineeded to remind myself
consistently that I can have asmuch control as I want to give
myself credit for, and I wouldnever do it in a mean way. I
(20:17):
mean, I'm on the record and gotyou know, a lot of content that
shows how I interacted. My teameven made me a Tiktok when I
left. And I'm very comfortablesaying I did things the right
way. In large part, you had agood time and a good time, and I
was pleasant, and like that wasmy number my number one KPI
work. And I didn't think aboutthis until I was leaving. Was
(20:39):
like being as pleasant ashumanly possible, and being okay
to have the understanding thatthere's a choice you don't know
what the hell is gonna happen,and then to be pleasant
throughout, to me that like,just unlocked all of these
things that led to me being okaywith making content and being
more awkward and kind ofclimbing cringe mountain, as
(21:00):
they say, in all of thosethings, being like, I'm choosing
to do this. I don't know wherethe hell it's going, and that's
okay, and as long as I'mpleasant along the way, then,
like, Let's go have a rip andhave fun. I love that.
Yeah, I think it's crazy to meas you're saying that, like,
(21:21):
just my own reflection of theamount of times I can play
stuff, stuff off and say it'sout of my control. Really what,
what I feel like you're sayingis, is you have the permission
to be honest with yourself, andyou have the permission to make
(21:42):
the decision that you feel likeis the best decision for you.
And those decisions aren't justbig decisions, but they're micro
decisions throughout your day today basis.
Totally, I think you should giveyourself more credit in regards
to that like choice and controlpiece, because I think what you
talk about is relative tobecause there's also the the
(22:05):
understanding, while you mayhave these choices, you may not
give yourself enough credit forchoices on a day to day basis,
there's also a just like a vastmajority of the world, that's
out of your control on aconsistent basis. Yeah, and you
in you like, you have to acceptthat, right, because then you
can be more specific andintentional with what can I
(22:26):
actually choose? You can't beyou can't say, Well, I have a
choice in regards to how Ichange that person. You have a
choice in regards to how youinteract with that person. Self
control your what you what youcan control relative to just
what's on your side of thetable, right? And then it and
then it even makes it easier forthose things that you don't, you
(22:48):
don't get to choose what theirresponse is, right? I think that
that's the delineation I'vealways felt like when you have
that conversation that you'reyou give that distinction
because there is so much thatyou do have to let go of in that
regard?
Yeah, and that's what you said.
You said, you know you're goingto be making these choices, and
you might be, they might bechoices that everyone else is
(23:09):
like, why would you make thatchoice? But then you also have
to let go of the outcome. And Ithink that's where faith and
hope comes in to the picture.
And so it's not only is itthinking someone under the
table, or believing that you'resmart and believing that you
have the ability to make thesedecisions and that you can be in
(23:29):
control of your life, but it'salso having faith in
the future. Yeah, and it alwayscame down to me, especially when
I had the biggest questions ofdoubt for myself. Why am I doing
this? Why am I making thatdecision? Why am I pushing
(23:50):
towards something from abusiness perspective, how am I
acting as a dad? Are myintentions good and are my
efforts solid? That's good. Andif I could check those two
boxes, I have to be okay withthe vast majority of the things
that are around that, becauseotherwise, to your earlier point
of like being friends withyourself, if I can't, if, if I'm
(24:11):
checking those boxes, and I'mstill restricting myself or
being too hard on myself, Thenyou're taking trying off the
table. And I think when we dothat, that's when it becomes
super dangerous. And if I evertake trying off the table, then
I got nothing, right? Then I'mnot trying to whether it's a
(24:36):
really small thing, like, youknow what I would select to go
for a run before I get on theplane to come to Dallas, or to
wrap my head around cool I'vejust been traveling, but I
really want to do like and thosethings, especially when
compounded over time. I thinkthe luxury of being 47 now is
(24:56):
having seen things repeated overand over and over again, and
seeing. The cumulative effect ofsome of the things that we're
discussing right now, and thatthose decisions, especially,
it's like the same thing as adiet or working out or
meditation, you're never goingto see an immediate result, but
over time and compounded, it canbe beyond your wildest dreams.
(25:19):
And so some of those decisions,and especially that, like,
ability to let go, but also becool with fully accepting what
you can and cannot choose tohave some sort of impact on
accepting the fact you havechoice letting go of like, what
that choice may actually dooutcome wise, then you're just
(25:40):
like, cool, I'm got, I got, whatI got. Let's roll and let's have
some fun. Good intentions.
Yeah, I Yeah. So you saideffort, yep. And are your
intentions? Is my effort and myintentions? And so I think, I
think that right there is ananswer to my question and an
(26:02):
answer for a lot of people. Andit's, it's simple, like, because
even having this conversationmakes me feel better about
myself, good, because I thinkall of us can question our
intentions at times, but at theend of the day, like, I know my
intentions are pure and I knowthat I'm putting in effort, and
then in the in between of that,waiting on the outcome or
(26:23):
whatever, even if it's notwaiting, I just need to be
living and enjoying, kind oflike you're saying, choose it.
Let's choose the good, but likeI can let off the pressure,
because I know that my intentionand my effort is there. Yeah,
sappy hour is brought to you byintelligent change. They're
amazing. I love them becausethey stand on business and they
(26:46):
mean what they say. And on topof that, they create some
awesome, amazing products. Okay,y'all probably already. Y'all
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asked someone a question fromthis card deck, so they have the
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(27:09):
that want to get closer, theyhave the get closer cards.
Dating edition, when you need afreaking icebreaker because the
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There is no version of this one.
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It's just, let's get closer. Andthen this is for your pocket.
You can take this anywhere, putit in your back pocket, like you
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pick a card, and that person canpick that card. And let's I'm
gonna act this out. They'regonna pick a card,
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and they'll say, what helps youget through tough times? And
then you would say, thesetabletop cards. Do these? Let's
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helps me with a guest that Idon't really know, to open the
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(28:42):
much and that bring you so muchso. Link is in the description,
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(29:07):
be so grounded and so herethat you're not there or there.
If that makessense, it makes total sense, and
it came back to the acceptanceof what I could control and what
I could control and what I couldnot control, especially having
to go from meeting to meeting tomeeting to meeting. And it
(29:28):
really stemmed from how do Iwant to behave and how do I want
to impact other people? And Isaw there being a massive lack
of self awareness in a lot ofsituations that I was in at
work, and that rose that broughtall kinds of questions to mind,
of like, why is that happening?
(29:50):
Is there something here that I'mmissing, where that that's like
a necessary piece of beingsuccessful, you almost have to
create this persona, and thenyou have to be out. Inside of
yourself and not as present andnot as aware in order to do big,
difficult things, because thenyou're pushing towards
something. It's like you createdthis character, this avatar, and
that's the thing that's drivingthings forward, versus being
(30:13):
okay to be like, No, this is whoI am and like, this is how I
want to behave, and these arethe situations I would like to
create and digesting that a lotmade me and I'm just kind of,
I've got a bit of a stonermindset, and I love it. I I get
so curious as to not only why isthis person in a bad mood or
(30:35):
acting this way in this meeting,but why did they choose that
shirt? But not today. It's like,why did they go to the store and
like they looked around? They'relike, cool, that one. And I try
to connect all those piecestogether to get a better
understanding as to who thepeople are that are around me,
so I can meet them where theyare on a consistent basis,
(30:58):
because then I can control thedynamic, which sounds odd, and I
don't use the think someoneunder the table, or the control
the dynamic, or the mentaljujitsu. Your intentions are
good, yeah, because myintentions are good and i just i
It allows me to be more present,correct? I can then sit there
and feel like, okay, cool. Ihave I can control what I can
(31:19):
control. I cannot control what Icannot control. I have a good
understanding of this person,both in the curiosity from a
micro perspective of why didthey choose that shirt, or
what's what was that scene?
Literally think of that scene ofthem at the store going through
the rack and being like, coolthis one, and then have that
compound into how they'rebehaving in the moment, and at
least my interpretation of it.
(31:41):
And that's enough that wouldjust center you and make you
present anyway, right? Likethat's a lot of different
thoughts to try to combine intoa given situation. Well,
there's a selflessness to it,kind of what I brought up
earlier, of your your focus isnot so inward. I think that
(32:01):
there's a difference betweenbeing self absorbed and self
aware. Yep. And I thinksometimes we can think that
that's the same thing, yep, and,and what you're talking about is
self awareness. Self absorptionis, is lack of awareness because
you're so in but you're saying,you're saying the way that you
pre present yourself isby thinking of others
(32:27):
I honestly love. Yeah, I hadn'tthought of it that way, and you
just stated it in a verybrilliant and eloquent fashion
that honestly had not crossed mymind quite like that. But no,
you're spot on. It's and it'seven, I'll give myself a little
less credit in that, it's justout of genuine curiosity. And
again, almost that. And it'sYeah, or the or the stoner
(32:50):
mentality, right? Like, I think,man, that's like, that's a,
that's a, you know, be like,That's a wild shirt. Man. Like,
why did that person or, like,where did that come from? What
was the decision, decisionbehind that? And it also the
being present and being aware,especially as things got as
(33:10):
chaotic as they were during themost intense times of my career.
I lived at the, you know, in themidst of a of the biggest cable
merger and the history of ofcompany's existence, you know,
three companies, they, all of asudden came together and created
100,000 person company. Youknow, all the systems in the job
(33:31):
descriptions and like,everything that had to get
reinvented during that time, letalone the story of the Thursday
before my first day on the job,when they brought me in and
said, you can have to fire all100 people that you're about to
inherit and start the departmentfrom scratch. You get six weeks
to make the first announcement,eight months to rebuild the
department. I was 35 I was like,very much. Did not have the
(33:56):
background. And even somebodyfrom HR was like, I didn't think
you had any shot of doing this,like on those times, and you
know this could be, I'd besurprised if you didn't have
elements of this in your sportscareer, where being present
almost helps you overcome thatsense of this is overwhelming,
(34:20):
and if you think about all ofthe outside forces that are
creating that chaos, but all youcan deal with is that one play
or that one player in front ofyou, yeah, you can't worry about
whether or not the special teamsis going to go then do X, Y or
Z, or there's there's elementsto even the training, where you
(34:45):
can't fix your speed and yourstrength, maybe you can fix your
speed and your strength at thesame time. But there's like,
there's elements of beingfocused, where if you're too
caught in outside things, in agiven moment, a you're not doing
the other person any good. Fauciin meetings, right? You have a
better chance of being a jerkbecause you're not truly able to
(35:08):
give Okay, I am here rightduring my craziest days when I
was trying to make all thetiktoks and trying to have eight
hours of meetings and make sureI called my wife on my way to
lunch. And am I thoughtful aboutasking how the quiz went at
school. When I get home, it waswhoever I'm talking to that's in
my calendar that I'm having thatmeeting with. They don't give a
(35:31):
shit about all of those otherthings. They shouldn't, and even
if they're the kind of personthat's like, Wow, you got 1000
things going on. Like, thank youfor doing blah, blah, blah. It's
like, I again, I chose to behere. I chose to be doing this
thing. So it's easier almostthen to block out all the rest
of it and be like, cool, I'mhere. I'm in this moment, and
this is all I can control. Andthen it just kind of feels a bit
(35:54):
lighter too. Like, oh, why? Whyshould I be concerned about all
these things that I literallycannot control right now. And
then I am more present. And thenI enjoy it more too, because I'm
not trying to carry around moreweight than I'm capable of
carrying around.
Really, what I've taken fromthis is, are
(36:14):
your intentions good? Are yougiving effort?
And are you curious? What didyour mom
say? Have a good time or have abad time? Yeah. Do you want to
have a good time or do you wantto have a bad time?
Yeah. Simply put, I think thatthat is
maybe an answer that a lot of ushave been looking for. Number
(36:38):
one, do you want to have a goodtime or bad time. I'll let you
choose number two, like, Let'sget your intentions set. Like,
what? What's fueling you? And Ithink it's, I think it's
awesome, you know, using thosequotes like, think someone under
the table because yourintentions are good. There's too
many people in this world withvery bad intentions that are
(36:59):
thinking people under the tableand screwing people. And there
needs to be more people withreally good intentions to
understand how smart they are.
Andsuch a such a brilliant way to
put it, yeah, because everybodydeserves that. Yes, a little bit
of Audacity. Yes, a little bitof Audacity.
Yeah, andbeing present and finding that
(37:22):
curiosity, I think that is abeautiful
way of life. Sappy hour isbrought to you by intelligent
change. And guess what? I justwrote a book with intelligent
change. Been working on it forabout a year and a half, and I'm
so excited about it. Sappymedium. The rough draft is here.
(37:43):
It hit the market last week. Sowhile I have you, I want to read
you a quick little paragraphfrom the book. Tell me what you
think your soul will always pullyou to exactly where you belong.
And I say that, and we allthink, oh, you know, that sounds
great, when in reality, ourintuition can ask us to do
uncomfortable things that oftendon't make sense in the moment,
(38:07):
but if we learn to listen, evenif we don't understand, life
will begin to unfold in a verymagical way. If you like little
quotes like that and want tohave something to read every
single day. This is the book foryou, and because you're
listening, I wanna let you in ona little secret here, if you use
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(38:31):
you need is in the description.
The link is there. The code isthere. I hope sappy medium can
become your little book ofinspiration.
I love this conversation.
I really appreciate you comingto Dallas. Is there?
There's one thing that you couldsay to the people watching, just
leave them with something.
(38:53):
What would it be give yourselfbenefit of the doubt
when you're allowed to go backto how this conversation started
with your answer about needingto be your own friend first,
which is critical, when you'reable to give others benefit of
the doubt, you can take the highroad. When you can take the high
(39:14):
road, I think you're just youcan be happier, but it has to
start with yourself, right? Sogive yourself benefit of the
doubt and and lean into itbecause it's yes, it's all I
got.
Well, thank you. I love that.
Thanks for coming to sappy housepowered by intelligent change.
I'm going to get you a fiveminute journal, and I'm going to
(39:35):
get you these closer cards,because I'd love for you to to
number one, go to the journalwith me, because I'm doing it,
and it's something that'shelping me in my hot mess. And
then I think you and your wifeand maybe your daughter would
like to get closer cards.
Oh, 1,000% journal me up andlet's play some cards. Dope.
Thanks, brother, yes. Thank you.
And cut.
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