May 29, 2025 • 33 mins
Rolling Stone has called him "the leading singer-songwriter of the New Folk Movement." New Jersey’s own John Gorka is a world-renowned singer-songwriter who is most comfortable with a guitar in hand.
You may hear him strum the guitar occasionally throughout the piece and not just during his live performances! That's right, this episode includes three live serenades, including "I'm From New Jersey" and "Oh Abraham."
This is an episode you won't want to miss.
Thanks for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (00:03):
This is Gina Marie Rodriguez, and you're
listening to the Jersey ArtsPodcast.
It would seem that today'sguest and I have a special
connection, but I won't spoilthe surprise.
You'll just have to listen tolearn what it is.
Rolling Stone has called himthe leading singer-songwriter of
the New Folk Movement.
New Jersey's own John Gorka isa world-renowned
(00:25):
singer-songwriter who is mostcomfortable with a guitar in
hand.
As a matter of fact, that's myfavorite part of this interview.
You may hear him strum theguitar occasionally throughout
the piece as we chat and I'm notjust referring to the live
performances I was treated to.
You heard that right.
Gorka surprised me with not one, but three live serenades,
(00:46):
including my favorites of his.
I'm from New Jersey and, oh,abraham, I think this is an
episode you won't want to miss.
I have to say I'm reallyexcited to talk to you because I
heard that you're from Colonia,new Jersey.
I am Absolutely.
Yeah, I grew up there.
That's where I grew up too.
John Gorka (01:06):
Yes, did you go to Colonia High?
Gina Marie Rodriguez (01:08):
I did.
John Gorka (01:09):
Wow.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (01:10):
Yes.
John Gorka (01:11):
Well, that's funny Wow.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (01:13):
I don't hear of a lot of people from
Colonia, I mean, aside from thepeople that I went to high
school with right.
So it's exciting when I hearsomeone else is from Colonia and
I heard it in your song, whichis my favorite song oh, Abraham.
John Gorka (01:26):
Oh, abraham, right yes.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (01:28):
I get so excited.
John Gorka (01:30):
Wood Avenue between Inman and New Dover yeah.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (01:38):
Yes, I love that so much.
My friend, one of my bestfriends, actually grew up on
Wood.
John Gorka (01:41):
Avenue, so I headed to Wood Avenue very often.
Oh wow, yeah, I think.
Apparently the house I grew upin has been bulldozed and made
into a cul-de-sac so I can'treally go home again.
But friends of mine got somesoil from that and gave me a
little sample, so I've got thatlittle home dirt.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (02:03):
That's so sweet.
So did you grow up on Wood Ave.
John Gorka (02:07):
Yes, yeah, 800 Wood Avenue.
Yeah.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (02:10):
Oh, my God , that's so close.
All right, I'm actually notgoing to say that, because I'll
give away where my friend livesbut very nearby, so I think I
know exactly where you'retalking about.
Yeah, that was actually reallydisappointing when they
bulldozed that area, but I stilllove it there.
I actually don't live very far,so New Jersey is still home for
me.
Where are you now?
John Gorka (02:30):
I'm in Minnesota.
Minnesota, I've been here since96.
Is there a big folk scene outin Minnesota?
I've's a lot of good, goodartists and musicians and uh
some good studios and uh somegood places to play.
So yeah, I think it's, I thinkit's okay that's great, but
(02:53):
you'll always be from new jersey.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (02:55):
It will always be yes no matter what and
this is the jersey arts podcast.
So I love talking about uh,about jersey and two folks from
New Jersey.
I happen to love your song.
I'm From New Jersey.
John Gorka (03:06):
All right.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (03:07):
Super relatable.
John Gorka (03:10):
I've got a guitar here if you want me to play
anything at any point.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (03:13):
Oh my God, would you.
John Gorka (03:15):
We can do a quick sound check.
Let's see Absolutely.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (03:19):
Oh, I'm already in love with you, thank
you.
John Gorka (03:21):
I'll do the New Jersey song.
I wrote this after readingRichard Ford's book the Sports
Writer, where he's a sportswriter based in New Jersey, and
there's something about itcrystallized and it's not.
This does not apply universallyin New Jersey, but I think
(03:45):
there is a segment where it'strue, for Okay, stop me if the
voice is weird or anything.
I'm from New Jersey.
I don't expect too much.
If the world ended today, Iwould adjust.
(04:08):
I'm from New Jersey.
No, I don't talk that way.
I watched too much TV when Iwas young.
I'm from New Jersey, my mom'sItalian.
I've read those mafia books.
(04:30):
We don't belong.
There were girls from NewJersey who had that great big
hair Once found in shoppingmalls.
I will take you there.
I'm from New Jersey.
(04:58):
It's not like Texas.
No, there is no mystery.
I can't pretend I'm from NewJersey.
It's like Ohio, but even moreso.
(05:19):
Imagine that I know which exitand where I'm bound.
Tolls on the parkway.
They will slow you down.
New Jersey people.
(05:45):
They will surprise you Causethey're not expected to do too
much.
They will try harder, they maygo further, cause they never
think that they are good enough.
I'm from New Jersey.
(06:08):
I don't expect too much.
If the world ended today, Iwould adjust, I would adjust, I
would adjust.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (06:29):
Can I just tell you you fulfilled a dream
of mine.
I have always wanted to beserenaded.
I just got my own privateconcert.
I don't know if you can tell,but that made me cry.
Oh, that's really nice.
John Gorka (06:39):
Well, thank you.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (06:40):
No, that was so good.
I love that song and it's sorelatable for so many reasons,
but I love that line.
If the world ended today, yeah.
John Gorka (06:51):
So yeah, kind of adjusting now.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (06:54):
Absolutely .
Oh my God, thank you for that,really Thank you, yeah, but
let's talk about your music,because you've got a lot of
really wonderful songs, and Imyself am not a musician.
So I always ask these questionsof artists sure, how do you,
how do you find your sound, howdid you find your way to folk
(07:15):
music?
John Gorka (07:16):
um, I think I first wanted to be a banjo player so
that the um, I love the sound ofthe and I got the wrong kind of
banjo.
The first banjo I got was atenor banjo and I realized
that's not the kind of I reallywanted to learn, like Earl
Scruggs style, which is afive-string banjo, and I love
that sound.
I love hearing them on theBeverly Hillbillies and the
(07:39):
soundtrack to Bonnie and Clydethe soundtrack to Bonnie and
Clyde, and then in 73, I thinkthat's when Deliverance, the
theme song to Deliverance cameout the Dueling Banjos.
So I just loved the sound ofthe banjo and I picked up the
guitar about six months later.
(08:00):
My brother plays guitar and so Istarted playing guitar.
He showed me some chords and hehad a bunch of song books that
he let me borrow and I startedwriting songs pretty much right
away because I think I knew Iwanted to be a writer before I
knew music was going to be theway and I thought when I started
(08:23):
to write songs I just wanted tosee if I could and I started
trying to do it a little bit.
I felt like the combination ofwords and music was much more
powerful than words alone, atleast the way I could express
them.
I'm not the most outgoingperson, I'm pretty shy and
(08:44):
socially awkward.
So music, it was kind of my wayout and a way of reaching other
people in a way that I was moreor less comfortable with.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (08:56):
Well, I think that's really the beauty
of music, because that's whereyour voice is most comfortable
and where you're able to tellstories.
Yeah, and I saw that you, youhad studied initially philosophy
and history.
Is that correct?
John Gorka (09:09):
That's right.
Yes, at Moravian College inBethlehem.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (09:13):
I feel like that.
Maybe it's an assumption on mypart, but I feel like that must
have played well into yourmusical journey, because you're
writing stories right.
So both of those things, Ithink, are very helpful, I think
.
John Gorka (09:24):
I think it did.
I love history, you know, and Ioften just say that I was a
philosophy major because that'sfunnier, but I love the big
ideas, the big questions.
So that and history.
I thought I wanted to studystuff that would be hard for me
to learn on my own.
So I started writing songs inhigh school and continued
(09:49):
through.
I met some fellow musicians atMoravian Doug Anderson and Russ
Rentler, and later RichardSchindel.
We formed the Razzy Dazzy SpasmBand and we would meet every
Friday at Doug's apartment.
(10:09):
He was a little older than us,he was married and had an
apartment we would go to offcampus and that was lots of fun.
He knew hundreds of songs andwas generous with lending his
record collection.
And then he took me to GodfreyDaniels Coffee House in probably
some time, because I met RussRentler the very first night of
(10:30):
the Moravian College.
They had a freshman orientationcoffee house and they invited
incoming freshmen to perform ifthey want to.
So I played and Doug Anderson,who was in the audience, saw
Russ Rentler who played mandolinand me who playing banjo.
He thought he saw the makingsof a bluegrass band.
(10:52):
So that was the beginning ofthe Razzy Dazzy Spasm Band.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (10:56):
I love that.
I think I mean look like I said, I'm not a musician so
sometimes I get my words mixedup, but bluegrass and folk are
two separate genres.
Yes, yeah, pretty much, butclosely related.
John Gorka (11:10):
There's some related .
You know it's related in a lotof the same instruments.
You know the styles are alittle different but using
acoustic instruments and theResi Desi Spasm Band wasn't a
very traditional bluegrass bandbut we did some of the songs
that were kind of standards.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (11:31):
I love that kind of music, especially
nowadays.
I mean, the world is the worldis always kind of crazy.
I think we just hear more aboutit now because of social media
and the news in our palms.
But I really turn to music thatI find soothing.
Yeah, and your music does that.
John Gorka (11:50):
Oh, thanks, that's what I hope, that you know.
If my music has an effect, Ihope it will make people feel
less alone.
I think that's my great hope.
By doing music, I can helppeople feel less alone.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (12:07):
Absolutely Well what you just did for me
singing I'm from New Jersey.
To me, that absolutely made mefeel less alone.
John Gorka (12:13):
Thank you oh thanks.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (12:14):
I love that song, but I guess the
question to you is who do youlisten to when you need to be
soothed?
John Gorka (12:22):
Oh, I think I probably play, for that helps me
just to kind of figure outwhat's going on inside, you know
, and pick up the instrument andhit a chord that I've played a
million times, but whatever thatmoment it's something that
feels different, and so I kindof keep going at it and see if
(12:46):
it leads anywhere and see if anywords come to mind.
Usually, if I have lyrics, Ican almost always come up with a
tune, but it doesn't alwayswork both the other way around.
That's one of the things I askother songwriters, you know, are
(13:06):
they music first, words first,or both at the same time?
Sometimes people say it wasjust the general idea or an
image that starts things off,but the process is kind of
endlessly fascinating and stillmysterious to me.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (13:25):
Do you ever get woken up in the middle
of the night with an idea andyou have to jump out of bed and
write a song?
John Gorka (13:30):
I have done that A lot of the times.
I monitor my thoughts as I'mgoing to sleep at night or
waking up in the morning.
Those seem to be the mostproductive time for lyrics and
musically.
Sound check times are a goodtime that I find myself playing
(13:51):
something.
You know, when I should bethinking about what I should be
playing that night or that day,I find myself noodling and
playing something I've notrecorded, not not played before.
It's like oh, what's this?
So it's kind of an odd thing,but that's.
I try to pay attention to thatthose times and try to note the
(14:13):
whatever it was I was playing,if maybe recorded on the phone
or that kind of thing, becausethe ideas will come and go.
They'll come and stay and keepknocking at your door.
Others will just kind of visitand if you're not receptive the
idea will move on to someoneelse.
(14:34):
My friend Eliza Gilkison saysif the song, an idea comes to
you and you kind of refuse it oryou don't want to give it
attention, they all default toBob Dylan.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (14:46):
Do you keep a notebook or a guitar by
your nightstand if you need towake up?
John Gorka (14:53):
Oh, I've got a guitar.
I've got a guitar next to it,and if it turns out that I've
got something, I'll try torecord it somehow, because
notebooks I like writing onrather than typing on a keyboard
, I like writing in longhand.
That seems to that kind ofreminded me of that.
(15:16):
You know, I took a course withTom Paxton at the Swannanoa
Gathering in North Carolina.
I was one of the instructorsthere but I had some time so I
was able to attend a coupleclasses.
So I got to sit in on TomPaxton's class several times and
one of the things he had anexercise where he said his wife
(15:40):
was a psychologist and she saidthat the act of writing pen or,
you know, pen or pencil to paper, just that physical act,
stimulates the creative part ofyour brain.
So that's, it's a little bit.
I think it's a little bit moreeffective than typing on a
keyboard.
(16:01):
So that that's something I try.
We, we did an exercise andended up coming up with a song
out of it.
So that that's uh, the, the,the process is, like I said, is
endlessly fascinating and justthose those things.
And uh, the other thing, uh,for me was uh.
That made a huge difference forme was meeting Jack Hardy at
(16:23):
Godfrey Daniels Coffeehouse inJune of 1979.
He was the first person I metwho wrote songs on a schedule.
His schedule was to finish asong a week.
I didn't know that songwriterscould do that.
I knew that fiction writerswould try to get up and write a
certain number of words a day,pages a day, whatever.
(16:46):
But I didn't know songwritersdid that.
I said I just kind of wait forinspiration to strike.
And he said that's a cop-out.
If you work at it, even if youthrow out you put yourself on a
schedule, even if you throw outthree-quarters of what you come
(17:08):
up with, you're going to getbetter faster just by kind of
exercising the writing muscles.
So I started to.
I did that.
I thought song a week would wastoo ambitious.
So I thought, okay, I'll do,I'll try to song a month.
And after the first year I hadmore songs than months.
So I went to two songs a month.
So I had deadlines on the 15thand the end of the month and I
stayed on that kind of a no.
(17:30):
That was what I would shoot formany years until having kids.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (17:36):
I should really adapt that because I'm a
writer as well and I used towait Well used to, I still do.
I wait for inspiration.
That because I'm a writer aswell and I used to wait, well
used to, I still do.
I wait for inspiration.
But I like the idea of settinga deadline for write something
once a month or twice a month.
I think that's great.
I also feel really validated.
You said your psychologistfriend prefers, or that writing
on paper actually stimulates adifferent part of the brain.
John Gorka (17:58):
I have so many notepads all over the house.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (18:01):
I prefer you.
I prefer pen to paper.
I still do.
John Gorka (18:05):
Yeah, tom Paxton, his wife was a psychologist and
she told him about that and hebrought that into the class.
So that was lots of fun.
And what was I going to say?
That kind of writing on aschedule thing.
It's sometimes that just bykind of forcing yourself not
(18:29):
just making some time to sitdown with an empty space, you
have to have kind of a clearphysical space to allow new
things to come in.
Sometimes when you work at youknow you show up every day and
work at it you'll findinspiration halfway through the
process.
You know it's not there at thebeginning, but just by kind of
(18:53):
trying to come up with somethingyou meet the inspiration then.
So I like that idea.
I think that Mary Oliver thepoet said she would try to work
at something every day and gofor walks.
And she said if you keepshowing up, the muse learns to
trust you.
And I thought that's a greatway of putting it.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (19:18):
I love that.
John Gorka (19:19):
My jaw just literally dropped but, I, love
that quote.
Yeah, yeah, she has a poetryhandbook, I think, and there was
also another book that I'mspacing out at the moment.
That was called, like, thePoetry Home Repair Manual.
I'm forgetting his name, butthat's also very inspiring.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (19:47):
I will definitely look into that.
I think this led me to my nextquestion, and it's something I
ask every artist.
But you've already given me alot of advice, so it's okay if
I'm putting you on the spot here, but I'd like to ask for those
younger folks who are looking toget into the industry, who are
looking to become musicians, theindustry who are looking to
become musicians what would yousay to encourage them?
John Gorka (20:05):
I think that my son has taken an interest in writing
songs and getting out there.
I said that putting yourself ona schedule is kind of a good
thing but you keep showing up,you know, in terms of going to
open mics any place where youcan, because I'm not a naturally
(20:27):
comfortable performer.
I just kind of forced myself togo to open mics, you know,
multiple nights a week, just soit's like I'm still not all that
comfortable performing but I'vecome to terms with my own
discomfort just by working on itand you know, kind of having it
(20:48):
come into muscle memory.
But I think keep showing up,you know, and keep in touch with
your instrument or your voiceand check in regularly to see if
the muse is in.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (21:10):
Honestly, I find that kind of advice
really comforting because Ithink so many artists are
introverts or reallyuncomfortable being out there
publicly.
They just want to share theirwork.
But, it's admirable that youforced yourself to live in the
discomfort and to be vulnerable.
That's brave.
That's really brave.
John Gorka (21:33):
I was in a place Godfrey Daniels Coffeehouse was
a place where people listen.
It's still there and peoplestill come to listen to music
there.
It's still a great place andthey'd have open mics on Sunday
nights.
It was a 10-minute walk from mydormitory and they'd have open
mics on Sunday nights.
It was a 10-minute walk from mydormitory and I remember one of
the first times playing band.
You know, I'd play fine in myroom, you know, or in the
(21:58):
basement of the dormitory, butthen I'd get on stage and it's
my hands.
It was like whose hands arethese?
That's one of those things forperforming.
You have to just kind of do itso it becomes muscle memory
rather than just your.
You know, it's got to be kindof in your hands and in your
singing, in your voice, so thatyou don't have to feel like
(22:24):
you're creating something everysecond.
I'm not sure if I'm making anysense.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (22:31):
No, you absolutely are making perfect
sense.
I wish I had more interviewswhere someone has a guitar on
their lap, because I would loveto hear you strum as you talk,
because I can tell that this isyour safe space and you just
keep reaching for.
John Gorka (22:47):
It 's it.
That's what I feel like.
Okay, I'm probably going to runout of things to say, but at
least I'll have a song.
There's a song I can.
I can, I can probably getthrough, uh, at at the moment,
maybe, maybe I should play asong.
Maybe I'll try to play the OAbraham song oh okay, I will not
stop you.
(23:12):
I was reading about some of thethings that Abraham Lincoln said
and wrote and did and, at thesame time, reading one of those
Beat generation books about JackKerouac and his pals, and one
(23:36):
of the things that it said aboutJack Kerouac is that he was on
a crew that helped to build thePentagon.
I just like the idea that it'scalled oh Abraham, oh Abraham.
I see a penny and I pick it up.
If not the money, I could usethe luck, and if it's face down,
(24:00):
then I turn it over Headforward.
Avenue between Inman and NewDover, back to my hometown.
Gas was cheaper where I'm from,but the driving's not so good.
(24:31):
People go and stay where theyshould not and they don't do it
like I would would.
(24:58):
Work is not the same as before.
There's more software hands inthis hardware store.
Yeah, yeah, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh Abraham.
Look at all the money now.
Oh, abraham, goodnight it'syour party.
(25:22):
But I'll cry if I want to.
I wouldn't care how much theyhad, if they would only do
what's right, not far right.
I was born by a Kerouac stream,under Eisenhower skies.
(25:52):
They saw freedom as a big idea.
Now it was right before my eyes.
They say Jack helped to buildthe Pentagon and I built the
(26:12):
interstate, and we are off andon.
Yeah, yeah, oh, oh Abraham.
Oh, abraham, was it all aboutthe money then?
(26:33):
Oh, abraham, goodnight it'syour party.
But I'll cry if I want to, I'llpower it, I want to, all
powered up and charmed withmight.
So we are right.
We're always right.
Right, we're right.
(27:03):
They're wrong.
Let them get their own song.
I see a penny and I pick it up.
Ninety-nine more and I have abuck.
Abe, you were born in oldKentucky.
(27:29):
We still miss you here.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (27:43):
By far the best day of my life.
John Gorka (27:45):
I've had so many good wives now.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (27:47):
Thank you so so much.
Oh, you're welcome.
You're going to be in NewJersey soon.
You're going to be at the LizzyRose Music Room.
John Gorka (27:54):
Yeah, very nice place yeah.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (27:56):
What can we look?
John Gorka (27:57):
forward to.
Yeah, I'll probably, you know,play some favorites.
You know I have a new recordcoming out, probably later this
year.
It's called Unentitled.
It's called Unentitled and uh,and it's got some new new songs
and some old, older songs that,uh, that I never either never
(28:21):
finished recording or theydidn't have a place in the in
those other records.
So, but I've got some of my oldfriends Lucy Kaplansky sings on
it, eliza Gilkyson, alicePeacock, kathleen Johnson, a
fantastic singer, sings on it,and some of the players that
I've worked with before inMinneapolis.
(28:43):
Yeah, so at the Lizzie RoseI'll just be doing a, a, a
variety of things.
You know I don't come, I say Iread, I have a, I write up a set
list every night, but not tillafter, uh, so it'll be, it'll be
.
I'll probably do some requestsand uh, and some people's
favorites and uh and and songsthat feel right to do at the
(29:05):
moment.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (29:09):
I think that's great.
I like the live in the momentright.
John Gorka (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, because that's David Bromberg said that
the reason why he was successful.
He said it wasn't because hewas a great guitar player or a
great singer, which I think.
I disagree on both of thosethings.
He said he was successfulbecause he knew what song to
play.
Next, everything's new all thetime.
(29:33):
Every second is new.
There's Rick Rubin's book aboutthe creative act.
It's also a very inspiring bookfor songwriters, anybody, any
artist.
One of the things he said wasthat you know, pay attention to
what's going on right nowbecause it's.
You know.
It might seem like it was asituation that you've been in
(29:59):
before, but the outside world ischanging every second.
Internally, your body ischanging, replacing new cells,
and so there's new stuff goinginside and out.
So just remember that and evenif things didn't work out in the
past, you've got a newbeginning every second.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (30:20):
Ain't that the truth?
John Gorka (30:22):
It's a great book.
I love that book and alsoShinichi Suzuki's book Nurtured
by Love.
He's the one who invented theSuzuki method, where kids start,
you know, kids who can't readmusic.
In sixth grade I took violausing my grandfather's violin
(30:43):
restrung, and that you know,because you start playing music
right away.
Play, you know it's like.
The idea is that people learnto speak and understand the
language before they learn howto write it.
Uh, read or write it so uh thatthat.
That was an inspiring book.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (31:00):
that, and Rick Rick Rubin's book, uh
you've given some really greatadvice, real gems today.
John Gorka (31:06):
Thank you, so so much it's been a real pleasure
it's been very fun.
Should I play us out please?
How about this?
It's just a short thing.
It's just a.
It's called, if not, it's justfour lines if not us, not them.
(31:40):
If not now, then when?
If not here nor there, if notthis world, then where?
If not us, not them.
If not now, then when?
If not here nor there, if notthis world, then where?
(32:04):
If not us, not them.
(32:28):
If not now, then when?
If not here nor there.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (32:38):
What a treat, three live performances
in one short podcast.
And that was just a taste ofthe soul-soothing music of John
Gorka, but you can see him inall his glory at the Lizzie Rose
Music Room on June 4th at7.30pm.
For tickets and moreinformation, be sure to visit
LizzieRoseMusic.
com.
If you liked this episode, besure to review, subscribe and
(33:01):
tell your friends.
A transcript of this podcast,links relevant to the story and
more about the arts in NewJersey can be found at
JerseyArts.
com.
The Jersey Arts Podcast ispresented by Art Pride New
Jersey, advancing a state ofcreativity since 1986.
The show was co-founded by andcurrently supported by funds
from the New Jersey StateCouncil on the Arts.
This episode was hosted, editedand produced by me, Gina Marie
(33:24):
Rodriguez.
Executive producers are JimAtkinson and Isaac Serna-Diez,
and my thanks, of course, toJohn Gorka for speaking with me
today.
I'm Gina Marie Rodriguez forthe Jersey Arts Podcast.
Thanks for listening.
This is Gina Marie Rodriguez, and you're
listening to the Jersey ArtsPodcast.
It would seem that today'sguest and I have a special
connection, but I won't spoilthe surprise.
You'll just have to listen tolearn what it is.
Rolling Stone has called himthe leading singer-songwriter of
the New Folk Movement.
New Jersey's own John Gorka isa world-renowned
(00:25):
singer-songwriter who is mostcomfortable with a guitar in
hand.
As a matter of fact, that's myfavorite part of this interview.
You may hear him strum theguitar occasionally throughout
the piece as we chat and I'm notjust referring to the live
performances I was treated to.
You heard that right.
Gorka surprised me with not one, but three live serenades,
(00:46):
including my favorites of his.
I'm from New Jersey and, oh,abraham, I think this is an
episode you won't want to miss.
I have to say I'm reallyexcited to talk to you because I
heard that you're from Colonia,new Jersey.
I am Absolutely.
Yeah, I grew up there.
That's where I grew up too.
John Gorka (01:06):
Yes, did you go to Colonia High?
Gina Marie Rodriguez (01:08):
I did.
John Gorka (01:09):
Wow.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (01:10):
Yes.
John Gorka (01:11):
Well, that's funny Wow.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (01:13):
I don't hear of a lot of people from
Colonia, I mean, aside from thepeople that I went to high
school with right.
So it's exciting when I hearsomeone else is from Colonia and
I heard it in your song, whichis my favorite song oh, Abraham.
John Gorka (01:26):
Oh, abraham, right yes.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (01:28):
I get so excited.
John Gorka (01:30):
Wood Avenue between Inman and New Dover yeah.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (01:38):
Yes, I love that so much.
My friend, one of my bestfriends, actually grew up on
Wood.
John Gorka (01:41):
Avenue, so I headed to Wood Avenue very often.
Oh wow, yeah, I think.
Apparently the house I grew upin has been bulldozed and made
into a cul-de-sac so I can'treally go home again.
But friends of mine got somesoil from that and gave me a
little sample, so I've got thatlittle home dirt.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (02:03):
That's so sweet.
So did you grow up on Wood Ave.
John Gorka (02:07):
Yes, yeah, 800 Wood Avenue.
Yeah.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (02:10):
Oh, my God , that's so close.
All right, I'm actually notgoing to say that, because I'll
give away where my friend livesbut very nearby, so I think I
know exactly where you'retalking about.
Yeah, that was actually reallydisappointing when they
bulldozed that area, but I stilllove it there.
I actually don't live very far,so New Jersey is still home for
me.
Where are you now?
John Gorka (02:30):
I'm in Minnesota.
Minnesota, I've been here since96.
Is there a big folk scene outin Minnesota?
I've's a lot of good, goodartists and musicians and uh
some good studios and uh somegood places to play.
So yeah, I think it's, I thinkit's okay that's great, but
(02:53):
you'll always be from new jersey.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (02:55):
It will always be yes no matter what and
this is the jersey arts podcast.
So I love talking about uh,about jersey and two folks from
New Jersey.
I happen to love your song.
I'm From New Jersey.
John Gorka (03:06):
All right.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (03:07):
Super relatable.
John Gorka (03:10):
I've got a guitar here if you want me to play
anything at any point.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (03:13):
Oh my God, would you.
John Gorka (03:15):
We can do a quick sound check.
Let's see Absolutely.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (03:19):
Oh, I'm already in love with you, thank
you.
John Gorka (03:21):
I'll do the New Jersey song.
I wrote this after readingRichard Ford's book the Sports
Writer, where he's a sportswriter based in New Jersey, and
there's something about itcrystallized and it's not.
This does not apply universallyin New Jersey, but I think
(03:45):
there is a segment where it'strue, for Okay, stop me if the
voice is weird or anything.
I'm from New Jersey.
I don't expect too much.
If the world ended today, Iwould adjust.
(04:08):
I'm from New Jersey.
No, I don't talk that way.
I watched too much TV when Iwas young.
I'm from New Jersey, my mom'sItalian.
I've read those mafia books.
(04:30):
We don't belong.
There were girls from NewJersey who had that great big
hair Once found in shoppingmalls.
I will take you there.
I'm from New Jersey.
(04:58):
It's not like Texas.
No, there is no mystery.
I can't pretend I'm from NewJersey.
It's like Ohio, but even moreso.
(05:19):
Imagine that I know which exitand where I'm bound.
Tolls on the parkway.
They will slow you down.
New Jersey people.
(05:45):
They will surprise you Causethey're not expected to do too
much.
They will try harder, they maygo further, cause they never
think that they are good enough.
I'm from New Jersey.
(06:08):
I don't expect too much.
If the world ended today, Iwould adjust, I would adjust, I
would adjust.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (06:29):
Can I just tell you you fulfilled a dream
of mine.
I have always wanted to beserenaded.
I just got my own privateconcert.
I don't know if you can tell,but that made me cry.
Oh, that's really nice.
John Gorka (06:39):
Well, thank you.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (06:40):
No, that was so good.
I love that song and it's sorelatable for so many reasons,
but I love that line.
If the world ended today, yeah.
John Gorka (06:51):
So yeah, kind of adjusting now.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (06:54):
Absolutely .
Oh my God, thank you for that,really Thank you, yeah, but
let's talk about your music,because you've got a lot of
really wonderful songs, and Imyself am not a musician.
So I always ask these questionsof artists sure, how do you,
how do you find your sound, howdid you find your way to folk
(07:15):
music?
John Gorka (07:16):
um, I think I first wanted to be a banjo player so
that the um, I love the sound ofthe and I got the wrong kind of
banjo.
The first banjo I got was atenor banjo and I realized
that's not the kind of I reallywanted to learn, like Earl
Scruggs style, which is afive-string banjo, and I love
that sound.
I love hearing them on theBeverly Hillbillies and the
(07:39):
soundtrack to Bonnie and Clydethe soundtrack to Bonnie and
Clyde, and then in 73, I thinkthat's when Deliverance, the
theme song to Deliverance cameout the Dueling Banjos.
So I just loved the sound ofthe banjo and I picked up the
guitar about six months later.
(08:00):
My brother plays guitar and so Istarted playing guitar.
He showed me some chords and hehad a bunch of song books that
he let me borrow and I startedwriting songs pretty much right
away because I think I knew Iwanted to be a writer before I
knew music was going to be theway and I thought when I started
(08:23):
to write songs I just wanted tosee if I could and I started
trying to do it a little bit.
I felt like the combination ofwords and music was much more
powerful than words alone, atleast the way I could express
them.
I'm not the most outgoingperson, I'm pretty shy and
(08:44):
socially awkward.
So music, it was kind of my wayout and a way of reaching other
people in a way that I was moreor less comfortable with.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (08:56):
Well, I think that's really the beauty
of music, because that's whereyour voice is most comfortable
and where you're able to tellstories.
Yeah, and I saw that you, youhad studied initially philosophy
and history.
Is that correct?
John Gorka (09:09):
That's right.
Yes, at Moravian College inBethlehem.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (09:13):
I feel like that.
Maybe it's an assumption on mypart, but I feel like that must
have played well into yourmusical journey, because you're
writing stories right.
So both of those things, Ithink, are very helpful, I think
.
John Gorka (09:24):
I think it did.
I love history, you know, and Ioften just say that I was a
philosophy major because that'sfunnier, but I love the big
ideas, the big questions.
So that and history.
I thought I wanted to studystuff that would be hard for me
to learn on my own.
So I started writing songs inhigh school and continued
(09:49):
through.
I met some fellow musicians atMoravian Doug Anderson and Russ
Rentler, and later RichardSchindel.
We formed the Razzy Dazzy SpasmBand and we would meet every
Friday at Doug's apartment.
(10:09):
He was a little older than us,he was married and had an
apartment we would go to offcampus and that was lots of fun.
He knew hundreds of songs andwas generous with lending his
record collection.
And then he took me to GodfreyDaniels Coffee House in probably
some time, because I met RussRentler the very first night of
(10:30):
the Moravian College.
They had a freshman orientationcoffee house and they invited
incoming freshmen to perform ifthey want to.
So I played and Doug Anderson,who was in the audience, saw
Russ Rentler who played mandolinand me who playing banjo.
He thought he saw the makingsof a bluegrass band.
(10:52):
So that was the beginning ofthe Razzy Dazzy Spasm Band.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (10:56):
I love that.
I think I mean look like I said, I'm not a musician so
sometimes I get my words mixedup, but bluegrass and folk are
two separate genres.
Yes, yeah, pretty much, butclosely related.
John Gorka (11:10):
There's some related .
You know it's related in a lotof the same instruments.
You know the styles are alittle different but using
acoustic instruments and theResi Desi Spasm Band wasn't a
very traditional bluegrass bandbut we did some of the songs
that were kind of standards.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (11:31):
I love that kind of music, especially
nowadays.
I mean, the world is the worldis always kind of crazy.
I think we just hear more aboutit now because of social media
and the news in our palms.
But I really turn to music thatI find soothing.
Yeah, and your music does that.
John Gorka (11:50):
Oh, thanks, that's what I hope, that you know.
If my music has an effect, Ihope it will make people feel
less alone.
I think that's my great hope.
By doing music, I can helppeople feel less alone.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (12:07):
Absolutely Well what you just did for me
singing I'm from New Jersey.
To me, that absolutely made mefeel less alone.
John Gorka (12:13):
Thank you oh thanks.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (12:14):
I love that song, but I guess the
question to you is who do youlisten to when you need to be
soothed?
John Gorka (12:22):
Oh, I think I probably play, for that helps me
just to kind of figure outwhat's going on inside, you know
, and pick up the instrument andhit a chord that I've played a
million times, but whatever thatmoment it's something that
feels different, and so I kindof keep going at it and see if
(12:46):
it leads anywhere and see if anywords come to mind.
Usually, if I have lyrics, Ican almost always come up with a
tune, but it doesn't alwayswork both the other way around.
That's one of the things I askother songwriters, you know, are
(13:06):
they music first, words first,or both at the same time?
Sometimes people say it wasjust the general idea or an
image that starts things off,but the process is kind of
endlessly fascinating and stillmysterious to me.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (13:25):
Do you ever get woken up in the middle
of the night with an idea andyou have to jump out of bed and
write a song?
John Gorka (13:30):
I have done that A lot of the times.
I monitor my thoughts as I'mgoing to sleep at night or
waking up in the morning.
Those seem to be the mostproductive time for lyrics and
musically.
Sound check times are a goodtime that I find myself playing
(13:51):
something.
You know, when I should bethinking about what I should be
playing that night or that day,I find myself noodling and
playing something I've notrecorded, not not played before.
It's like oh, what's this?
So it's kind of an odd thing,but that's.
I try to pay attention to thatthose times and try to note the
(14:13):
whatever it was I was playing,if maybe recorded on the phone
or that kind of thing, becausethe ideas will come and go.
They'll come and stay and keepknocking at your door.
Others will just kind of visitand if you're not receptive the
idea will move on to someoneelse.
(14:34):
My friend Eliza Gilkison saysif the song, an idea comes to
you and you kind of refuse it oryou don't want to give it
attention, they all default toBob Dylan.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (14:46):
Do you keep a notebook or a guitar by
your nightstand if you need towake up?
John Gorka (14:53):
Oh, I've got a guitar.
I've got a guitar next to it,and if it turns out that I've
got something, I'll try torecord it somehow, because
notebooks I like writing onrather than typing on a keyboard
, I like writing in longhand.
That seems to that kind ofreminded me of that.
(15:16):
You know, I took a course withTom Paxton at the Swannanoa
Gathering in North Carolina.
I was one of the instructorsthere but I had some time so I
was able to attend a coupleclasses.
So I got to sit in on TomPaxton's class several times and
one of the things he had anexercise where he said his wife
(15:40):
was a psychologist and she saidthat the act of writing pen or,
you know, pen or pencil to paper, just that physical act,
stimulates the creative part ofyour brain.
So that's, it's a little bit.
I think it's a little bit moreeffective than typing on a
keyboard.
(16:01):
So that that's something I try.
We, we did an exercise andended up coming up with a song
out of it.
So that that's uh, the, the,the process is, like I said, is
endlessly fascinating and justthose those things.
And uh, the other thing, uh,for me was uh.
That made a huge difference forme was meeting Jack Hardy at
(16:23):
Godfrey Daniels Coffeehouse inJune of 1979.
He was the first person I metwho wrote songs on a schedule.
His schedule was to finish asong a week.
I didn't know that songwriterscould do that.
I knew that fiction writerswould try to get up and write a
certain number of words a day,pages a day, whatever.
(16:46):
But I didn't know songwritersdid that.
I said I just kind of wait forinspiration to strike.
And he said that's a cop-out.
If you work at it, even if youthrow out you put yourself on a
schedule, even if you throw outthree-quarters of what you come
(17:08):
up with, you're going to getbetter faster just by kind of
exercising the writing muscles.
So I started to.
I did that.
I thought song a week would wastoo ambitious.
So I thought, okay, I'll do,I'll try to song a month.
And after the first year I hadmore songs than months.
So I went to two songs a month.
So I had deadlines on the 15thand the end of the month and I
stayed on that kind of a no.
(17:30):
That was what I would shoot formany years until having kids.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (17:36):
I should really adapt that because I'm a
writer as well and I used towait Well used to, I still do.
I wait for inspiration.
That because I'm a writer aswell and I used to wait, well
used to, I still do.
I wait for inspiration.
But I like the idea of settinga deadline for write something
once a month or twice a month.
I think that's great.
I also feel really validated.
You said your psychologistfriend prefers, or that writing
on paper actually stimulates adifferent part of the brain.
John Gorka (17:58):
I have so many notepads all over the house.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (18:01):
I prefer you.
I prefer pen to paper.
I still do.
John Gorka (18:05):
Yeah, tom Paxton, his wife was a psychologist and
she told him about that and hebrought that into the class.
So that was lots of fun.
And what was I going to say?
That kind of writing on aschedule thing.
It's sometimes that just bykind of forcing yourself not
(18:29):
just making some time to sitdown with an empty space, you
have to have kind of a clearphysical space to allow new
things to come in.
Sometimes when you work at youknow you show up every day and
work at it you'll findinspiration halfway through the
process.
You know it's not there at thebeginning, but just by kind of
(18:53):
trying to come up with somethingyou meet the inspiration then.
So I like that idea.
I think that Mary Oliver thepoet said she would try to work
at something every day and gofor walks.
And she said if you keepshowing up, the muse learns to
trust you.
And I thought that's a greatway of putting it.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (19:18):
I love that.
John Gorka (19:19):
My jaw just literally dropped but, I, love
that quote.
Yeah, yeah, she has a poetryhandbook, I think, and there was
also another book that I'mspacing out at the moment.
That was called, like, thePoetry Home Repair Manual.
I'm forgetting his name, butthat's also very inspiring.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (19:47):
I will definitely look into that.
I think this led me to my nextquestion, and it's something I
ask every artist.
But you've already given me alot of advice, so it's okay if
I'm putting you on the spot here, but I'd like to ask for those
younger folks who are looking toget into the industry, who are
looking to become musicians, theindustry who are looking to
become musicians what would yousay to encourage them?
John Gorka (20:05):
I think that my son has taken an interest in writing
songs and getting out there.
I said that putting yourself ona schedule is kind of a good
thing but you keep showing up,you know, in terms of going to
open mics any place where youcan, because I'm not a naturally
(20:27):
comfortable performer.
I just kind of forced myself togo to open mics, you know,
multiple nights a week, just soit's like I'm still not all that
comfortable performing but I'vecome to terms with my own
discomfort just by working on itand you know, kind of having it
(20:48):
come into muscle memory.
But I think keep showing up,you know, and keep in touch with
your instrument or your voiceand check in regularly to see if
the muse is in.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (21:10):
Honestly, I find that kind of advice
really comforting because Ithink so many artists are
introverts or reallyuncomfortable being out there
publicly.
They just want to share theirwork.
But, it's admirable that youforced yourself to live in the
discomfort and to be vulnerable.
That's brave.
That's really brave.
John Gorka (21:33):
I was in a place Godfrey Daniels Coffeehouse was
a place where people listen.
It's still there and peoplestill come to listen to music
there.
It's still a great place andthey'd have open mics on Sunday
nights.
It was a 10-minute walk from mydormitory and they'd have open
mics on Sunday nights.
It was a 10-minute walk from mydormitory and I remember one of
the first times playing band.
You know, I'd play fine in myroom, you know, or in the
(21:58):
basement of the dormitory, butthen I'd get on stage and it's
my hands.
It was like whose hands arethese?
That's one of those things forperforming.
You have to just kind of do itso it becomes muscle memory
rather than just your.
You know, it's got to be kindof in your hands and in your
singing, in your voice, so thatyou don't have to feel like
(22:24):
you're creating something everysecond.
I'm not sure if I'm making anysense.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (22:31):
No, you absolutely are making perfect
sense.
I wish I had more interviewswhere someone has a guitar on
their lap, because I would loveto hear you strum as you talk,
because I can tell that this isyour safe space and you just
keep reaching for.
John Gorka (22:47):
It 's it.
That's what I feel like.
Okay, I'm probably going to runout of things to say, but at
least I'll have a song.
There's a song I can.
I can, I can probably getthrough, uh, at at the moment,
maybe, maybe I should play asong.
Maybe I'll try to play the OAbraham song oh okay, I will not
stop you.
(23:12):
I was reading about some of thethings that Abraham Lincoln said
and wrote and did and, at thesame time, reading one of those
Beat generation books about JackKerouac and his pals, and one
(23:36):
of the things that it said aboutJack Kerouac is that he was on
a crew that helped to build thePentagon.
I just like the idea that it'scalled oh Abraham, oh Abraham.
I see a penny and I pick it up.
If not the money, I could usethe luck, and if it's face down,
(24:00):
then I turn it over Headforward.
Avenue between Inman and NewDover, back to my hometown.
Gas was cheaper where I'm from,but the driving's not so good.
(24:31):
People go and stay where theyshould not and they don't do it
like I would would.
(24:58):
Work is not the same as before.
There's more software hands inthis hardware store.
Yeah, yeah, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh Abraham.
Look at all the money now.
Oh, abraham, goodnight it'syour party.
(25:22):
But I'll cry if I want to.
I wouldn't care how much theyhad, if they would only do
what's right, not far right.
I was born by a Kerouac stream,under Eisenhower skies.
(25:52):
They saw freedom as a big idea.
Now it was right before my eyes.
They say Jack helped to buildthe Pentagon and I built the
(26:12):
interstate, and we are off andon.
Yeah, yeah, oh, oh Abraham.
Oh, abraham, was it all aboutthe money then?
(26:33):
Oh, abraham, goodnight it'syour party.
But I'll cry if I want to, I'llpower it, I want to, all
powered up and charmed withmight.
So we are right.
We're always right.
Right, we're right.
(27:03):
They're wrong.
Let them get their own song.
I see a penny and I pick it up.
Ninety-nine more and I have abuck.
Abe, you were born in oldKentucky.
(27:29):
We still miss you here.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (27:43):
By far the best day of my life.
John Gorka (27:45):
I've had so many good wives now.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (27:47):
Thank you so so much.
Oh, you're welcome.
You're going to be in NewJersey soon.
You're going to be at the LizzyRose Music Room.
John Gorka (27:54):
Yeah, very nice place yeah.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (27:56):
What can we look?
John Gorka (27:57):
forward to.
Yeah, I'll probably, you know,play some favorites.
You know I have a new recordcoming out, probably later this
year.
It's called Unentitled.
It's called Unentitled and uh,and it's got some new new songs
and some old, older songs that,uh, that I never either never
(28:21):
finished recording or theydidn't have a place in the in
those other records.
So, but I've got some of my oldfriends Lucy Kaplansky sings on
it, eliza Gilkyson, alicePeacock, kathleen Johnson, a
fantastic singer, sings on it,and some of the players that
I've worked with before inMinneapolis.
(28:43):
Yeah, so at the Lizzie RoseI'll just be doing a, a, a
variety of things.
You know I don't come, I say Iread, I have a, I write up a set
list every night, but not tillafter, uh, so it'll be, it'll be
.
I'll probably do some requestsand uh, and some people's
favorites and uh and and songsthat feel right to do at the
(29:05):
moment.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (29:09):
I think that's great.
I like the live in the momentright.
John Gorka (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, because that's David Bromberg said that
the reason why he was successful.
He said it wasn't because hewas a great guitar player or a
great singer, which I think.
I disagree on both of thosethings.
He said he was successfulbecause he knew what song to
play.
Next, everything's new all thetime.
(29:33):
Every second is new.
There's Rick Rubin's book aboutthe creative act.
It's also a very inspiring bookfor songwriters, anybody, any
artist.
One of the things he said wasthat you know, pay attention to
what's going on right nowbecause it's.
You know.
It might seem like it was asituation that you've been in
(29:59):
before, but the outside world ischanging every second.
Internally, your body ischanging, replacing new cells,
and so there's new stuff goinginside and out.
So just remember that and evenif things didn't work out in the
past, you've got a newbeginning every second.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (30:20):
Ain't that the truth?
John Gorka (30:22):
It's a great book.
I love that book and alsoShinichi Suzuki's book Nurtured
by Love.
He's the one who invented theSuzuki method, where kids start,
you know, kids who can't readmusic.
In sixth grade I took violausing my grandfather's violin
(30:43):
restrung, and that you know,because you start playing music
right away.
Play, you know it's like.
The idea is that people learnto speak and understand the
language before they learn howto write it.
Uh, read or write it so uh thatthat.
That was an inspiring book.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (31:00):
that, and Rick Rick Rubin's book, uh
you've given some really greatadvice, real gems today.
John Gorka (31:06):
Thank you, so so much it's been a real pleasure
it's been very fun.
Should I play us out please?
How about this?
It's just a short thing.
It's just a.
It's called, if not, it's justfour lines if not us, not them.
(31:40):
If not now, then when?
If not here nor there, if notthis world, then where?
If not us, not them.
If not now, then when?
If not here nor there, if notthis world, then where?
(32:04):
If not us, not them.
(32:28):
If not now, then when?
If not here nor there.
Gina Marie Rodriguez (32:38):
What a treat, three live performances
in one short podcast.
And that was just a taste ofthe soul-soothing music of John
Gorka, but you can see him inall his glory at the Lizzie Rose
Music Room on June 4th at7.30pm.
For tickets and moreinformation, be sure to visit
LizzieRoseMusic.
com.
If you liked this episode, besure to review, subscribe and
(33:01):
tell your friends.
A transcript of this podcast,links relevant to the story and
more about the arts in NewJersey can be found at
JerseyArts.
com.
The Jersey Arts Podcast ispresented by Art Pride New
Jersey, advancing a state ofcreativity since 1986.
The show was co-founded by andcurrently supported by funds
from the New Jersey StateCouncil on the Arts.
This episode was hosted, editedand produced by me, Gina Marie
(33:24):
Rodriguez.
Executive producers are JimAtkinson and Isaac Serna-Diez,
and my thanks, of course, toJohn Gorka for speaking with me
today.
I'm Gina Marie Rodriguez forthe Jersey Arts Podcast.
Thanks for listening.
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