October 16, 2025 • 23 mins
The Rocky Horror Picture Show, Frankenweenie, Poor Things… the story of Frankenstein has been adapted many times over and continues to find new relevance with each interpretation. Playwright David Catlin’s version, called Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein, does double duty by presenting a story within a story. The show depicts both the tale of Frankenstein as well as the famous spooky storytelling competition that inspired it–giving audiences a look into the making of Victor Frankenstein's creature and the making of the novel itself.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maddie Orton (00:02):
Hi, I'm Maddie Orton, and this is the Jersey
Arts Podcast.
The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Frankenweenie (00:08):
Poor Things.
The story of Frankenstein hasbeen adapted many times over and
continues to find new relevancewith each interpretation.
Playwright David Catelyn'sversion, called Mary Shelley's
Frankenstein, does double dutyby presenting a story within a
story.
The show depicts both the taleof Frankenstein as well as the
(00:28):
famous spooky storytellingcompetition that inspired it,
giving audiences a look into themaking of Victor Frankenstein's
creature and the making of thenovel itself.
I spoke with director BrianCrow, actor Jay Wade, who plays
both Lord Byron and TheCreature, and actor Shawn
Michael Wilkinson, who playsboth Percy Shelley and Victor
(00:48):
Frankenstein, about theirproduction and this timeless
tale.
Take a listen.
Thank you so much, guys.
I really appreciate you takingthe time in the middle of your
rehearsal process.
How's it going so far?
Brian Crowe (01:03):
I think it's going great, but I'll let these guys
talk.
Sean-Michael Wilkinson (01:06):
Yeah, it's trucking right along, I
think.
So it's it's it's a prettyquick process.
So um Jay, what do you need tosay?
Jay Wade (01:13):
Yeah, no, I I feel like with any like professional
production, you only get so muchtime before you have to get
into tech rehearsal and I thinklike three weeks.
Yeah.
Um and we're moving, we'removing along.
We just finished blocking allof uh act one.
Now we're uh moving to thestage of act two in the next
second half of the show.
(01:33):
So yeah, we're yeah, truckingalong.
Maddie Orton (01:35):
Okay, fantastic.
Great, great, great.
I'm really excited about thisadaptation of Frankenstein,
which is technically called MaryShelley's Frankenstein, because
it it sounds like it's a storywithin a story that talks about
the creation of the novelitself.
Brian, can you tell me a littlebit about that?
Brian Crowe (01:53):
Yeah, I mean, one of the things I love actually,
one of the things that Iparticularly love about this
production is exactly whatyou're pointing to, is uh we
think of Frankenstein the story,and actually I also believe
that no one actually reallyknows what that book is.
We because we all know themovies and not the actual story.
Maddie Orton (02:06):
You're probably right.
Brian Crowe (02:07):
But what's so fascinating is how it was
created.
So um we the play actuallytakes place.
Uh it's summer 1816, uh, abeautiful villa on the um uh
shore of Lake Geneva.
It's very bad weather.
It's been raining and raining.
It's cold, it's it's nastyoutside.
So you have this small group oflittle bohemian artists, um uh
Mary uh uh Wollstonecraft uhGodwin, who's gonna be later
(02:30):
Mary Shelley, Percy Shelley,Lord Byron, and some friends are
hanging out, hiding from therain, sharing uh German ghost
stories.
Um and they kind of get excitedabout that, and they're they're
young and bohemian and they'rehaving a good time.
And then Byron uh decides tochallenge his guests to a
competition.
Who can write the scariestghost story?
So, and besides having thisgreat gothic masterpiece we have
(02:53):
that is Frankenstein, themodern Prometheus, we also have
this great origin story of thatbook, which is which is kind of
fantastic.
So at this event, thischallenge, from this kind of uh
ill-weathered Bohemian contest,uh, we have two pieces actually
come out.
We have John Polidori's TheVampire, uh, which is the first
vampire story, and of course wehave Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
(03:16):
or the modern Prometheus, allget their start from this.
Um, and it's really kind of afascinating group of characters.
There's a lot of oddrelationship dynamics going on
that are going on there, a lotof back history of the tragedies
that that Mary has faced in herlife and in her relationships.
And then from all that, youhave this uh epic, fantastic
(03:37):
powerhouse of a piece from this18-year-old young woman.
Uh, it's amazing.
Maddie Orton (03:42):
That is how it actually happened in real life,
right?
That there was this, I guess,fantastic dinner party.
I don't know, like the greatestdinner party ever of some of
the people coming together andtelling ghost stories.
And that is this is somethingshe came up with and then became
the genesis for the actualnovel that she then pens and
(04:03):
becomes what we now know today.
Is that right?
Brian Crowe (04:06):
Yeah, yeah.
So so two years after thisparty, there was a short story
she had.
Um, her uh lover, later uhhusband encouraged her, uh Percy
Shelley, encouraged her tocontinue writing and expand on
it.
Um and so two years later, itwas uh published anonymously.
Um her name was not associatedwith it.
A few years after that, hername was associated with it.
And most of the information wehave about how this came to be
(04:28):
is actually in her uh 1831reprinting of it.
She wrote the whole story thatI just told you about how that
that summer of 1816, how it allcame to be.
Maddie Orton (04:37):
So, what this means for the play is that Jay
and Sean, you guys are bothdouble cast essentially, right?
So, who do you, I guess Jay, goif you could go first, who do
you play in, I guess, in thestory and then the story within
the story?
Jay Wade (04:51):
Yeah, yeah, right.
Uh so as Brian mentioned, itwas kind of Lord Byron's idea to
you know have his friends telllike who could tell the greatest
uh horror story, right?
And Lord Byron is one that'salready like he's already made
like a huge like standing in thein the literary form, and uh
he's he's he's quite popular atthis point, right?
(05:13):
So he he kind of wants tochallenge his friends to kind of
get on the same level he's on,right?
So who can write the beststory?
Brian Crowe (05:19):
I would say popular, but very scandalous at
the time, too.
Jay Wade (05:22):
Yeah, it's that I think that's a little bit of
history on Lord Byron, you'll beuh you'll be appalled.
Um he's a Greek hero.
Yes, he is.
He is a Greek hero.
Uh they have statues in Greece.
Yes.
Maddie Orton (05:33):
I did not know that.
That's fascinating.
Jay Wade (05:34):
Yeah, and uh I kind of take on that role, but what's
what's nice about it, and what'snice about this adaptation is
as Mary Shelley is kind oftelling the story, all of her
friends, Lord Byron, uh Percy,uh Claire Claremont, John Powell
Dory, they all becomecharacters in the in the actual
story that's being told.
Right?
So yeah, we we all playactually more than two roles.
(05:55):
We play all three roles in theshow.
So yeah.
Maddie Orton (05:58):
And so who do you become then?
I've become the creatureultimately, which famously
people get this wrong all thetime.
I'm gonna be so careful not to.
The creature is Frankenstein'smonster because I know people
will come for me if I get thatwrong.
Jay Wade (06:13):
Correct.
Sean-Michael Wilkinson (06:13):
Okay.
Jay Wade (06:15):
That goes back to the adaptations that that we know
traditionally, right?
The the American Boris Carl,those kind of uh, but the the
original adaptation isFrankenstein is the sciences and
the creature is his creation.
Maddie Orton (06:28):
Okay, I'm gonna keep that straight in my head.
I love that.
And then Sean, who do you play?
Jay Wade (06:34):
I'm playing uh Percy Shelley.
So who marry Shelley obviouslyeventually they become, although
not at this point yet.
Um so he's not as popular asLord Byron at this point, more
of like a what would you say,like a niche sort of artist at
this point?
His fame comes moreposthumously.
Yeah, it's nice because hebecomes I also played Victor
(06:55):
Frankenstein in the play withinthe play.
So there's a lot of parallelsbetween those two characters as
Mary Shelley is narrating andkind of laying out the stories
of the of her character.
There's some things that relateas well to the character of
Shell and certain things thatare going to relationship-wise
with him, too.
So there's some nice thingsthat go hand in hand.
Maddie Orton (07:21):
You're both playing characters who I think
people, like you said, Jay, withthe films, people are like, Oh,
I know Frankenstein, but reallyyou're right, it's the novel,
I'm sure, is quite differentthan like the universal horror
films that we're thinking of,and then all of the adaptations
that have come from that.
So, how do you both work ontaking on these sort of
(07:44):
well-trod characters, butfinding your own voice within
that or adapting it to whatmakes the most sense to you
interpretation-wise?
And Jay, you can go first.
Jay Wade (07:56):
Yeah, I think the most helpful thing for me, like when
I was first presented with thescript, it was it was something
like, okay, I've read the bookonce in high school and then one
other time after that.
So when I was presented withthe script, I was like, okay,
Mary Shelley's Frankenstein,this is gonna be more true to
the original story.
To me, the original story isbetter than any adaptation
(08:18):
that's come after it, right?
Because it has a lot of tragedyin it, but also has a lot of
love, has a lot of poetry, ithas a lot of race in it, right?
And what's really nice aboutthis adaptation, uh David
Catelyn, is he was able to staytrue to the book and still have
those same qualities of love, ofloss, of isolation, of
(08:40):
education, right?
And finding those things that'strue to the original American
Shelly Hurricane.
That's what I really like aboutit.
Maddie Orton (08:47):
Yeah, Sean.
Jay Wade (08:48):
I think for me to just come in the character,
obviously, any character you canhave to just sort of look at it
as a human being and judge itbased on stuff that's come
before.
But I mean, the nice thingabout this story, like they were
saying, is that because it'sbased on the original, the
original story, the Shelleystory, and there's so many
things that's happening becauseit's the romantic period, you
know, not like I love you, butmore like, you know, the
(09:08):
romantic nature and the worldaround you, and there's aspects
of that in the differencebetween Mary Shelley's
personality, but alsocharactership was like just the
position of that versus VictorFrankenstein, and the feeling of
like the industrial revolution,it's just came out from that
idea of mechanization and likethe mechanical world and you
know, coal and burning, and justsort of versus this agrarian
(09:32):
society that you're coming at itfrom.
So for me, I like those thingsand I like history.
So looking at it from thataspect with Victor, it's kind of
how is that ambition drawinghim forward into a diverging
path, you know?
So we can go the way um thatwe've been, but it's a sacred
route, but then there's alsothis new way, right?
(09:52):
And the uh pitfalls that comealong with that, both personally
as well as for society, what hecould unleash by pursuing the
unknown.
Maddie Orton (10:00):
Do you think for him there is something innately
scary in that, or is it justexciting for him?
Like, do you feel I guess thehorror element that eventually
comes from that story?
Do you think your character hasthat sense?
Jay Wade (10:16):
I think the horror comes from realizing after the
fact.
Maddie Orton (10:21):
Interesting.
Jay Wade (10:22):
It's a it's an it's a rejection of what he's created.
You know, he's he's sohell-bent on finding out what it
might be.
It's like we were talking aboutthe CERN or the uh oh yeah,
hedge paper on collider, liketrying to find dark matter and
stuff.
You know, things scientistsstill do, and like we're going
to find out, or AI, even youknow, like we're trying to find
(10:42):
out, we want to see how itworks, we want to know how it
works, and then you sort ofdisregard the you let the
guardrails go just in in hopesof finding that thing.
And the horror is realizingthat it's too late.
Horror is realizing we've gonetoo far and we can't go back.
Maddie Orton (10:56):
Yeah.
And then Jay, I feel like,especially for Frankenstein's
monster, anytime there's a newversion of it, the onus is sort
of on that actor more thananybody else, to sort of say,
like, this is what my monsterlooks like.
Because in my head, when Ithink Frankenstein monster, I
think, you know, the originalUniversal, I think young
(11:19):
Frankenstein.
And then there's like the newadaptations, like Poor Things,
or even like uh I think there'sa Frankenweenie, you know.
Brian Crowe (11:33):
I will say, I will say just one thing before takes
it up.
Uh, you keep referring to it asFrankenstein's monster.
And one thing that we've beenvery adamant about conversal is
Mary Shelley doesn't refer to itas a monster.
Sometimes uh Victor will sayit's monstrous.
Oh, interesting.
It's Frankenstein's creature.
Um, and so we at leastinternally are trying to not put
(11:53):
the judgment of what that is onthat character because there's
so much more, and Jay alluded tothis earlier, there's so much
more to this story than madscientists and crazy quote
unquote monster.
Right.
Much more going on there.
But I'll let Jay talk aboutthat.
That's actually it's themonster term that I want to
catch.
Maddie Orton (12:09):
No, I think that's important though, because
that's also sort of the like asan actor not judging your
character, like why, andcertainly I'm sure Victor would
not actively create a monster,if that makes sense.
He's creating a creature thatbecomes, I suppose, monstrous,
which is what this is.
Jay Wade (12:25):
Well, it's actually partially Victor's view of him
that causes him to be monsterperception.
Yeah, so treatment more thananything.
Maddie Orton (12:32):
Right, right.
Which I which is the humanstory in all of this.
Jay Wade (12:36):
So, but Jay, so how do you I are you throwing on like
bolts on your neck, or is thissort of so it it it it goes back
to that thing of like trying tostay true to the original
story, right?
In the original story, we don'tget this this bo Boris Karloff
green guy with with the flathead and the bolts coming out of
(12:58):
his neck, right?
Uh it's it's it's palette limbsand singing muscles, right?
But it's it's something that isgrotesquely beautiful, if that
makes sense, right?
Just just how this madscientist was able to kind of
sculpt this human being fromdifferent kinds of body parts,
right?
But what we kind of learn fromhim is there's a sort of menu,
(13:22):
like even though he's just thisthis new creation, right?
And that's what we like torefer to him as well as the the
creation.
Like I try not to call him thecreature because he that denotes
like monsters, right?
And the only thing that'smonstrous about him is just how
you put it together, it's justhis physical physical
attributes, right?
(13:42):
Like you see through hisgrowth, you see through his
story, like there's a there's athere's a communaire
essentially, right?
There's there's a being withfeelings and also like to be
isolated and abandoned and wanta little bit of uh
companionship, right?
We all want I think like theimportant thing to know is uh
everyone wants to feel love andno one wants to be alone, right?
(14:04):
And I think that's the like theultimate thing that we get from
the original and not so muchfrom adaptation.
Maddie Orton (14:10):
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Jay Wade (14:11):
And when you so when you embody this character, is
there like a physicality changethat you're absolutely it's it's
something that Brian and I arestill working on uh throughout
the rehearsal process, but it'sfinding ways to put it into my
body, right?
Creating something fromscratch, like how does this this
thing who's essentially puttogether with different kinds of
(14:32):
body parts, different kinds ofuh organs, right?
How does this person doesn'tmove like a uh being usually,
right?
He's trying to find thatcomfort in his own body in his
own skin, right?
So it's a process, yeah.
It's it's yeah, it's aninteresting we're we're
essentially creating somethingout of plate, right?
Um where they go.
Brian Crowe (14:56):
Yeah, it's also interesting.
I mean, uh uh the the play hasa moment, and the story does
this as well, kind of talksabout kind of the quote unquote
birth of the creation and thenkind of this progression.
It only takes about two yearsfor him to be uh for his real
encounter with with Victor uhlater in the story.
But we we track through kind offrom birth and kind of growing
(15:16):
up and where's the adolescenceand learning language and all
these kind of great things, andthis kind of rapid progression
there.
And so there's been some uhlooking at videos of of uh
animals that kind of go tomoving right away, not babies,
because you know, human babiesthey just hang out there for
like months and months andmonths.
Um, but like like um horses anduh giraffes and and then they
(15:37):
just kind of come out and thenlike within minutes are kind of
up and moving, and how theirbodies kind of work and find
themselves has been somethingkind of interesting to explore
uh on that.
Uh, and especially then alsouh, I mean, I was looking at
some stuff early on about youknow animals that have had some
kind of disfigurement orsomething like that, and how
they just kind of start working,you know, a a wing that's
broken on a bird, or or youknow, uh, uh a dog that's lost
(16:00):
its leg but still kind ofmanaged to get through.
There's a great video of uh uhof a cat that has no front paws
and just kind of runs around.
It's fantastic.
It figures that nature finds away always, yeah.
And it winds up being in manycases beautiful and graceful.
We talked about that from uhthat in the end there is a grace
to this amazing being, despitethe quote unquote monstrous uh
(16:22):
word that that Victor puts up.
So interesting.
But it doesn't start that way.
Maddie Orton (16:31):
Brian, you're artistic director as well of
Shakespeare Theater of NewJersey.
So I assume you also you knowselected this play.
What made you think about theFrankenstein story for this
period in time?
Brian Crowe (16:44):
Um a few things.
Um I've been wanting to do aFrankenstein sorry.
I I love horror, I love thisromantic and gothic era as well.
Um, but I've been wanting to doa Frankenstein story for quite
some time and haven't found ascript that I was excited about
until we came across thisCatelyn, um, uh uh uh David
Catelyn's adaptation uh of thescript was what we're what we're
doing for this.
(17:04):
So I'm very excited about thescript.
I'm very excited about theinclusion of uh Mary Shelley in
the story and creating thestory.
It still keeps, as Jay wassaying, so much that's core to
this to the to Mary Shelley'snovel that is not what most of
us know from the films uh onthat, but you still get elements
of that.
It's still frightening.
You still have a mad scientistcreating a body out of dead
(17:25):
parts, you know, all that stuffis still happening.
Um but as far as why now, uhuh, I think, and I'll go back to
the AI reference that came upearlier, there is a moral
responsibility that is examined,not answered, but examined in
this book that I think is reallyimportant.
We as human beings, as artists,as scientists, as who we are as
(17:45):
at our core, there's somethingabout creating things bigger and
better than ourselves.
And we don't always look atwhat the next ramifications
might be.
So I've I'm excited about it,especially at this point in time
where we're looking at AI andmany other things going on in
the world, um, to kind ofre-examine what it is to have
responsibility then.
I also think that this play hasa very, this story has a very
(18:08):
different resonance to me as afather now.
I have two teenagers at home.
Um the first time I read it wasin high school, as most people
did.
I had no recollection of whatthe parenting, I mean, it's a
whole uh component of this, islike the father figure that
Victor could be uh and isn't,and the child that the creature
is inherently.
(18:28):
And so I think that thatchanges the kind of point of
view too.
So it's been really excitingkind of examining it again now,
the story now, at this point inmy life.
Maddie Orton (18:36):
Yeah, that is very heart-wrenching, I would
imagine, as a parent, looking atit through that lens.
Yeah.
And I mean, Sean, you mentionedthe sort of the industrial
revolution aspect of this.
And then I guess Victor is inthis period where he's seeing,
you know, the agrarian societyand the industrial revolution
and sort of moving thatdirection, which to me also
(18:56):
really does mirror this momentin time with AI, right?
Jay Wade (19:00):
Yeah, I think so.
And just that I think it's likea do the ends justify the means
sort of question.
Like, yes, I can do what shouldI do?
You know, like it I have thepower and I have the mental
ability.
You can think of that with justin terms it I do really like
because there's a lot of scenes,uh, there's a character that
Mary Shelley plays in the playthat is his sister, his sort of
(19:23):
is more than sister, yeah.
And she is much more associatedwith nature.
He says the, you know, there'sno other creature in the world
or person in the world so intune with the natural world,
poetry, the natural world aroundher.
And that just almost makes metake a toll to me, you know, as
well.
That sort of like that constanthuman feeling of balancing what
we come from with where wethink we might want to go, um,
(19:46):
and the dangers ofdisassociating from where we've
been, you know.
And then with the monster, withthe preacher, excuse me, with
the creation, the nature versusnurture aspect of that as well.
Like, are you born evil?
Are you born with these traits?
Or do you just the societyaround you create them in you,
you know?
So yeah, uh that was merambling.
Maddie Orton (20:08):
But um no, I I think it's really interesting.
I mean, it it does.
I hadn't thought about thatcomparison, but the second I saw
that the theater was doing thisshow, I thought, oh man, AI is
like the first thing I thoughtof.
And it does really to me mirrorthat in the way that like maybe
a West world sort of touches onfrom a futuristic perspective.
Jay Wade (20:31):
Well, then what do you do when your creation becomes
more powerful than you?
Maddie Orton (20:34):
I don't know.
I'm terrified, guys.
I'm not gonna lie.
I I'm thinking about it now.
Brian Crowe (20:39):
That goes to AI, certainly, but that goes to
children.
I mean, that goes to theparenting thing too.
What happens when your childbecomes more than you are?
Which is what every parent Ihope hopes for.
That your child will be more.
But then when they are, whathappens?
That that becomes a veryinteresting component of this
story.
Maddie Orton (20:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so for people who come tosee the show, I mean, what are
you most excited about themexperiencing with this
production?
Brian Crowe (21:04):
I think that for uh for me, I I'm gonna have a fun,
fun time at theater.
I mean, we we we go to theater,yes, you you'll have some uh uh
moral dilemmas that are thrownat you that the characters are
struggling with.
That's great.
Um, but really it's to have agreat time at the theater,
despite everything we're saying,or not despite in in in concert
with everything we're sayingabout all the deep elements of
longing and love, and there'slots of humor in this product in
(21:26):
this script, uh, especiallyearly on, which is great, and
lots of humanity in this in thisproduction, there's still a lot
of great, terrifying moments.
So, people, if you want, if youwant to see something moving
and romantic and elegant andterrifying and fun uh and
exciting, perfectly timed, Ithink, for Halloween and the
fall season, uh, then this is ashow to see.
If you're looking for flatheadsand bolts in next, you're not
(21:48):
gonna see that.
Um, after the show.
Maddie Orton (21:51):
Okay, great.
Sean will deliver that at thestage door.
I appreciate that.
Brian Crowe (21:55):
After the show, yeah, yeah.
So yeah.
So but yeah, I think I thinkpeople to have a re-examining of
uh of a piece that they thinkthey know and have fun with it.
Jay Wade (22:03):
So I'm still aiming for like, you know, we get some
we get some tarps for the frontrow.
I said the first day, it waslike a Gallagher show, but what?
Yeah.
And I'm all I'm with showing.
Maddie Orton (22:19):
Isn't that what everybody's looking for?
Is to get really dressed up fora night at the theater and then
just be in a splash zone.
Love that.
Oh my gosh.
Well, guys, it sounds sofantastic, and I'm so excited
for you.
Really terrific concept, reallyterrific show, and uh, I hope
it does well by you guys.
I hope you enjoy yourselves.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for taking thetime.
(22:39):
Appreciate it.
Brian Crowe (22:40):
Thanks, Mary.
Maddie Orton (22:43):
Thanks to Brian Crow, Jay Wade, and Sean Michael
Wilkinson for joining me.
Mary Shelley's Frankensteinwill run at the Shakespeare
Theater of New Jersey fromOctober 22nd through November
16th.
For more information, visitshakespeernj.org.
If you like this episode, besure to give us a review,
subscribe, and tell yourfriends.
A transcript of this podcast,as well as links to related
(23:04):
content and more about the artsin New Jersey, can be found on
jerseyarts.com.
The JerseyArts podcast ispresented by Art Pride New
Jersey, advancing a state ofcreativity since 1986.
The show is co-founded by andcurrently supported by funds
from the New Jersey StateCouncil on the Arts.
This episode was hosted,produced, and edited by yours
(23:25):
truly, Maddie Orton.
Executive producers are JimAtkinson and Isaac Cernadiaz.
Special thanks to theShakespeare Theater of New
Jersey.
I'm Maddie Orton for the JerseyArts Podcast.
Thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Maddie Orton, and this is the Jersey
Arts Podcast.
The Rocky Horror Picture Show.
Frankenweenie (00:08):
Poor Things.
The story of Frankenstein hasbeen adapted many times over and
continues to find new relevancewith each interpretation.
Playwright David Catelyn'sversion, called Mary Shelley's
Frankenstein, does double dutyby presenting a story within a
story.
The show depicts both the taleof Frankenstein as well as the
(00:28):
famous spooky storytellingcompetition that inspired it,
giving audiences a look into themaking of Victor Frankenstein's
creature and the making of thenovel itself.
I spoke with director BrianCrow, actor Jay Wade, who plays
both Lord Byron and TheCreature, and actor Shawn
Michael Wilkinson, who playsboth Percy Shelley and Victor
(00:48):
Frankenstein, about theirproduction and this timeless
tale.
Take a listen.
Thank you so much, guys.
I really appreciate you takingthe time in the middle of your
rehearsal process.
How's it going so far?
Brian Crowe (01:03):
I think it's going great, but I'll let these guys
talk.
Sean-Michael Wilkinson (01:06):
Yeah, it's trucking right along, I
think.
So it's it's it's a prettyquick process.
So um Jay, what do you need tosay?
Jay Wade (01:13):
Yeah, no, I I feel like with any like professional
production, you only get so muchtime before you have to get
into tech rehearsal and I thinklike three weeks.
Yeah.
Um and we're moving, we'removing along.
We just finished blocking allof uh act one.
Now we're uh moving to thestage of act two in the next
second half of the show.
(01:33):
So yeah, we're yeah, truckingalong.
Maddie Orton (01:35):
Okay, fantastic.
Great, great, great.
I'm really excited about thisadaptation of Frankenstein,
which is technically called MaryShelley's Frankenstein, because
it it sounds like it's a storywithin a story that talks about
the creation of the novelitself.
Brian, can you tell me a littlebit about that?
Brian Crowe (01:53):
Yeah, I mean, one of the things I love actually,
one of the things that Iparticularly love about this
production is exactly whatyou're pointing to, is uh we
think of Frankenstein the story,and actually I also believe
that no one actually reallyknows what that book is.
We because we all know themovies and not the actual story.
Maddie Orton (02:06):
You're probably right.
Brian Crowe (02:07):
But what's so fascinating is how it was
created.
So um we the play actuallytakes place.
Uh it's summer 1816, uh, abeautiful villa on the um uh
shore of Lake Geneva.
It's very bad weather.
It's been raining and raining.
It's cold, it's it's nastyoutside.
So you have this small group oflittle bohemian artists, um uh
Mary uh uh Wollstonecraft uhGodwin, who's gonna be later
(02:30):
Mary Shelley, Percy Shelley,Lord Byron, and some friends are
hanging out, hiding from therain, sharing uh German ghost
stories.
Um and they kind of get excitedabout that, and they're they're
young and bohemian and they'rehaving a good time.
And then Byron uh decides tochallenge his guests to a
competition.
Who can write the scariestghost story?
So, and besides having thisgreat gothic masterpiece we have
(02:53):
that is Frankenstein, themodern Prometheus, we also have
this great origin story of thatbook, which is which is kind of
fantastic.
So at this event, thischallenge, from this kind of uh
ill-weathered Bohemian contest,uh, we have two pieces actually
come out.
We have John Polidori's TheVampire, uh, which is the first
vampire story, and of course wehave Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
(03:16):
or the modern Prometheus, allget their start from this.
Um, and it's really kind of afascinating group of characters.
There's a lot of oddrelationship dynamics going on
that are going on there, a lotof back history of the tragedies
that that Mary has faced in herlife and in her relationships.
And then from all that, youhave this uh epic, fantastic
(03:37):
powerhouse of a piece from this18-year-old young woman.
Uh, it's amazing.
Maddie Orton (03:42):
That is how it actually happened in real life,
right?
That there was this, I guess,fantastic dinner party.
I don't know, like the greatestdinner party ever of some of
the people coming together andtelling ghost stories.
And that is this is somethingshe came up with and then became
the genesis for the actualnovel that she then pens and
(04:03):
becomes what we now know today.
Is that right?
Brian Crowe (04:06):
Yeah, yeah.
So so two years after thisparty, there was a short story
she had.
Um, her uh lover, later uhhusband encouraged her, uh Percy
Shelley, encouraged her tocontinue writing and expand on
it.
Um and so two years later, itwas uh published anonymously.
Um her name was not associatedwith it.
A few years after that, hername was associated with it.
And most of the information wehave about how this came to be
(04:28):
is actually in her uh 1831reprinting of it.
She wrote the whole story thatI just told you about how that
that summer of 1816, how it allcame to be.
Maddie Orton (04:37):
So, what this means for the play is that Jay
and Sean, you guys are bothdouble cast essentially, right?
So, who do you, I guess Jay, goif you could go first, who do
you play in, I guess, in thestory and then the story within
the story?
Jay Wade (04:51):
Yeah, yeah, right.
Uh so as Brian mentioned, itwas kind of Lord Byron's idea to
you know have his friends telllike who could tell the greatest
uh horror story, right?
And Lord Byron is one that'salready like he's already made
like a huge like standing in thein the literary form, and uh
he's he's he's quite popular atthis point, right?
(05:13):
So he he kind of wants tochallenge his friends to kind of
get on the same level he's on,right?
So who can write the beststory?
Brian Crowe (05:19):
I would say popular, but very scandalous at
the time, too.
Jay Wade (05:22):
Yeah, it's that I think that's a little bit of
history on Lord Byron, you'll beuh you'll be appalled.
Um he's a Greek hero.
Yes, he is.
He is a Greek hero.
Uh they have statues in Greece.
Yes.
Maddie Orton (05:33):
I did not know that.
That's fascinating.
Jay Wade (05:34):
Yeah, and uh I kind of take on that role, but what's
what's nice about it, and what'snice about this adaptation is
as Mary Shelley is kind oftelling the story, all of her
friends, Lord Byron, uh Percy,uh Claire Claremont, John Powell
Dory, they all becomecharacters in the in the actual
story that's being told.
Right?
So yeah, we we all playactually more than two roles.
(05:55):
We play all three roles in theshow.
So yeah.
Maddie Orton (05:58):
And so who do you become then?
I've become the creatureultimately, which famously
people get this wrong all thetime.
I'm gonna be so careful not to.
The creature is Frankenstein'smonster because I know people
will come for me if I get thatwrong.
Jay Wade (06:13):
Correct.
Sean-Michael Wilkinson (06:13):
Okay.
Jay Wade (06:15):
That goes back to the adaptations that that we know
traditionally, right?
The the American Boris Carl,those kind of uh, but the the
original adaptation isFrankenstein is the sciences and
the creature is his creation.
Maddie Orton (06:28):
Okay, I'm gonna keep that straight in my head.
I love that.
And then Sean, who do you play?
Jay Wade (06:34):
I'm playing uh Percy Shelley.
So who marry Shelley obviouslyeventually they become, although
not at this point yet.
Um so he's not as popular asLord Byron at this point, more
of like a what would you say,like a niche sort of artist at
this point?
His fame comes moreposthumously.
Yeah, it's nice because hebecomes I also played Victor
(06:55):
Frankenstein in the play withinthe play.
So there's a lot of parallelsbetween those two characters as
Mary Shelley is narrating andkind of laying out the stories
of the of her character.
There's some things that relateas well to the character of
Shell and certain things thatare going to relationship-wise
with him, too.
So there's some nice thingsthat go hand in hand.
Maddie Orton (07:21):
You're both playing characters who I think
people, like you said, Jay, withthe films, people are like, Oh,
I know Frankenstein, but reallyyou're right, it's the novel,
I'm sure, is quite differentthan like the universal horror
films that we're thinking of,and then all of the adaptations
that have come from that.
So, how do you both work ontaking on these sort of
(07:44):
well-trod characters, butfinding your own voice within
that or adapting it to whatmakes the most sense to you
interpretation-wise?
And Jay, you can go first.
Jay Wade (07:56):
Yeah, I think the most helpful thing for me, like when
I was first presented with thescript, it was it was something
like, okay, I've read the bookonce in high school and then one
other time after that.
So when I was presented withthe script, I was like, okay,
Mary Shelley's Frankenstein,this is gonna be more true to
the original story.
To me, the original story isbetter than any adaptation
(08:18):
that's come after it, right?
Because it has a lot of tragedyin it, but also has a lot of
love, has a lot of poetry, ithas a lot of race in it, right?
And what's really nice aboutthis adaptation, uh David
Catelyn, is he was able to staytrue to the book and still have
those same qualities of love, ofloss, of isolation, of
(08:40):
education, right?
And finding those things that'strue to the original American
Shelly Hurricane.
That's what I really like aboutit.
Maddie Orton (08:47):
Yeah, Sean.
Jay Wade (08:48):
I think for me to just come in the character,
obviously, any character you canhave to just sort of look at it
as a human being and judge itbased on stuff that's come
before.
But I mean, the nice thingabout this story, like they were
saying, is that because it'sbased on the original, the
original story, the Shelleystory, and there's so many
things that's happening becauseit's the romantic period, you
know, not like I love you, butmore like, you know, the
(09:08):
romantic nature and the worldaround you, and there's aspects
of that in the differencebetween Mary Shelley's
personality, but alsocharactership was like just the
position of that versus VictorFrankenstein, and the feeling of
like the industrial revolution,it's just came out from that
idea of mechanization and likethe mechanical world and you
know, coal and burning, and justsort of versus this agrarian
(09:32):
society that you're coming at itfrom.
So for me, I like those thingsand I like history.
So looking at it from thataspect with Victor, it's kind of
how is that ambition drawinghim forward into a diverging
path, you know?
So we can go the way um thatwe've been, but it's a sacred
route, but then there's alsothis new way, right?
(09:52):
And the uh pitfalls that comealong with that, both personally
as well as for society, what hecould unleash by pursuing the
unknown.
Maddie Orton (10:00):
Do you think for him there is something innately
scary in that, or is it justexciting for him?
Like, do you feel I guess thehorror element that eventually
comes from that story?
Do you think your character hasthat sense?
Jay Wade (10:16):
I think the horror comes from realizing after the
fact.
Maddie Orton (10:21):
Interesting.
Jay Wade (10:22):
It's a it's an it's a rejection of what he's created.
You know, he's he's sohell-bent on finding out what it
might be.
It's like we were talking aboutthe CERN or the uh oh yeah,
hedge paper on collider, liketrying to find dark matter and
stuff.
You know, things scientistsstill do, and like we're going
to find out, or AI, even youknow, like we're trying to find
(10:42):
out, we want to see how itworks, we want to know how it
works, and then you sort ofdisregard the you let the
guardrails go just in in hopesof finding that thing.
And the horror is realizingthat it's too late.
Horror is realizing we've gonetoo far and we can't go back.
Maddie Orton (10:56):
Yeah.
And then Jay, I feel like,especially for Frankenstein's
monster, anytime there's a newversion of it, the onus is sort
of on that actor more thananybody else, to sort of say,
like, this is what my monsterlooks like.
Because in my head, when Ithink Frankenstein monster, I
think, you know, the originalUniversal, I think young
(11:19):
Frankenstein.
And then there's like the newadaptations, like Poor Things,
or even like uh I think there'sa Frankenweenie, you know.
Brian Crowe (11:33):
I will say, I will say just one thing before takes
it up.
Uh, you keep referring to it asFrankenstein's monster.
And one thing that we've beenvery adamant about conversal is
Mary Shelley doesn't refer to itas a monster.
Sometimes uh Victor will sayit's monstrous.
Oh, interesting.
It's Frankenstein's creature.
Um, and so we at leastinternally are trying to not put
(11:53):
the judgment of what that is onthat character because there's
so much more, and Jay alluded tothis earlier, there's so much
more to this story than madscientists and crazy quote
unquote monster.
Right.
Much more going on there.
But I'll let Jay talk aboutthat.
That's actually it's themonster term that I want to
catch.
Maddie Orton (12:09):
No, I think that's important though, because
that's also sort of the like asan actor not judging your
character, like why, andcertainly I'm sure Victor would
not actively create a monster,if that makes sense.
He's creating a creature thatbecomes, I suppose, monstrous,
which is what this is.
Jay Wade (12:25):
Well, it's actually partially Victor's view of him
that causes him to be monsterperception.
Yeah, so treatment more thananything.
Maddie Orton (12:32):
Right, right.
Which I which is the humanstory in all of this.
Jay Wade (12:36):
So, but Jay, so how do you I are you throwing on like
bolts on your neck, or is thissort of so it it it it goes back
to that thing of like trying tostay true to the original
story, right?
In the original story, we don'tget this this bo Boris Karloff
green guy with with the flathead and the bolts coming out of
(12:58):
his neck, right?
Uh it's it's it's palette limbsand singing muscles, right?
But it's it's something that isgrotesquely beautiful, if that
makes sense, right?
Just just how this madscientist was able to kind of
sculpt this human being fromdifferent kinds of body parts,
right?
But what we kind of learn fromhim is there's a sort of menu,
(13:22):
like even though he's just thisthis new creation, right?
And that's what we like torefer to him as well as the the
creation.
Like I try not to call him thecreature because he that denotes
like monsters, right?
And the only thing that'smonstrous about him is just how
you put it together, it's justhis physical physical
attributes, right?
(13:42):
Like you see through hisgrowth, you see through his
story, like there's a there's athere's a communaire
essentially, right?
There's there's a being withfeelings and also like to be
isolated and abandoned and wanta little bit of uh
companionship, right?
We all want I think like theimportant thing to know is uh
everyone wants to feel love andno one wants to be alone, right?
(14:04):
And I think that's the like theultimate thing that we get from
the original and not so muchfrom adaptation.
Maddie Orton (14:10):
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Jay Wade (14:11):
And when you so when you embody this character, is
there like a physicality changethat you're absolutely it's it's
something that Brian and I arestill working on uh throughout
the rehearsal process, but it'sfinding ways to put it into my
body, right?
Creating something fromscratch, like how does this this
thing who's essentially puttogether with different kinds of
(14:32):
body parts, different kinds ofuh organs, right?
How does this person doesn'tmove like a uh being usually,
right?
He's trying to find thatcomfort in his own body in his
own skin, right?
So it's a process, yeah.
It's it's yeah, it's aninteresting we're we're
essentially creating somethingout of plate, right?
Um where they go.
Brian Crowe (14:56):
Yeah, it's also interesting.
I mean, uh uh the the play hasa moment, and the story does
this as well, kind of talksabout kind of the quote unquote
birth of the creation and thenkind of this progression.
It only takes about two yearsfor him to be uh for his real
encounter with with Victor uhlater in the story.
But we we track through kind offrom birth and kind of growing
(15:16):
up and where's the adolescenceand learning language and all
these kind of great things, andthis kind of rapid progression
there.
And so there's been some uhlooking at videos of of uh
animals that kind of go tomoving right away, not babies,
because you know, human babiesthey just hang out there for
like months and months andmonths.
Um, but like like um horses anduh giraffes and and then they
(15:37):
just kind of come out and thenlike within minutes are kind of
up and moving, and how theirbodies kind of work and find
themselves has been somethingkind of interesting to explore
uh on that.
Uh, and especially then alsouh, I mean, I was looking at
some stuff early on about youknow animals that have had some
kind of disfigurement orsomething like that, and how
they just kind of start working,you know, a a wing that's
broken on a bird, or or youknow, uh, uh a dog that's lost
(16:00):
its leg but still kind ofmanaged to get through.
There's a great video of uh uhof a cat that has no front paws
and just kind of runs around.
It's fantastic.
It figures that nature finds away always, yeah.
And it winds up being in manycases beautiful and graceful.
We talked about that from uhthat in the end there is a grace
to this amazing being, despitethe quote unquote monstrous uh
(16:22):
word that that Victor puts up.
So interesting.
But it doesn't start that way.
Maddie Orton (16:31):
Brian, you're artistic director as well of
Shakespeare Theater of NewJersey.
So I assume you also you knowselected this play.
What made you think about theFrankenstein story for this
period in time?
Brian Crowe (16:44):
Um a few things.
Um I've been wanting to do aFrankenstein sorry.
I I love horror, I love thisromantic and gothic era as well.
Um, but I've been wanting to doa Frankenstein story for quite
some time and haven't found ascript that I was excited about
until we came across thisCatelyn, um, uh uh uh David
Catelyn's adaptation uh of thescript was what we're what we're
doing for this.
(17:04):
So I'm very excited about thescript.
I'm very excited about theinclusion of uh Mary Shelley in
the story and creating thestory.
It still keeps, as Jay wassaying, so much that's core to
this to the to Mary Shelley'snovel that is not what most of
us know from the films uh onthat, but you still get elements
of that.
It's still frightening.
You still have a mad scientistcreating a body out of dead
(17:25):
parts, you know, all that stuffis still happening.
Um but as far as why now, uhuh, I think, and I'll go back to
the AI reference that came upearlier, there is a moral
responsibility that is examined,not answered, but examined in
this book that I think is reallyimportant.
We as human beings, as artists,as scientists, as who we are as
(17:45):
at our core, there's somethingabout creating things bigger and
better than ourselves.
And we don't always look atwhat the next ramifications
might be.
So I've I'm excited about it,especially at this point in time
where we're looking at AI andmany other things going on in
the world, um, to kind ofre-examine what it is to have
responsibility then.
I also think that this play hasa very, this story has a very
(18:08):
different resonance to me as afather now.
I have two teenagers at home.
Um the first time I read it wasin high school, as most people
did.
I had no recollection of whatthe parenting, I mean, it's a
whole uh component of this, islike the father figure that
Victor could be uh and isn't,and the child that the creature
is inherently.
(18:28):
And so I think that thatchanges the kind of point of
view too.
So it's been really excitingkind of examining it again now,
the story now, at this point inmy life.
Maddie Orton (18:36):
Yeah, that is very heart-wrenching, I would
imagine, as a parent, looking atit through that lens.
Yeah.
And I mean, Sean, you mentionedthe sort of the industrial
revolution aspect of this.
And then I guess Victor is inthis period where he's seeing,
you know, the agrarian societyand the industrial revolution
and sort of moving thatdirection, which to me also
(18:56):
really does mirror this momentin time with AI, right?
Jay Wade (19:00):
Yeah, I think so.
And just that I think it's likea do the ends justify the means
sort of question.
Like, yes, I can do what shouldI do?
You know, like it I have thepower and I have the mental
ability.
You can think of that with justin terms it I do really like
because there's a lot of scenes,uh, there's a character that
Mary Shelley plays in the playthat is his sister, his sort of
(19:23):
is more than sister, yeah.
And she is much more associatedwith nature.
He says the, you know, there'sno other creature in the world
or person in the world so intune with the natural world,
poetry, the natural world aroundher.
And that just almost makes metake a toll to me, you know, as
well.
That sort of like that constanthuman feeling of balancing what
we come from with where wethink we might want to go, um,
(19:46):
and the dangers ofdisassociating from where we've
been, you know.
And then with the monster, withthe preacher, excuse me, with
the creation, the nature versusnurture aspect of that as well.
Like, are you born evil?
Are you born with these traits?
Or do you just the societyaround you create them in you,
you know?
So yeah, uh that was merambling.
Maddie Orton (20:08):
But um no, I I think it's really interesting.
I mean, it it does.
I hadn't thought about thatcomparison, but the second I saw
that the theater was doing thisshow, I thought, oh man, AI is
like the first thing I thoughtof.
And it does really to me mirrorthat in the way that like maybe
a West world sort of touches onfrom a futuristic perspective.
Jay Wade (20:31):
Well, then what do you do when your creation becomes
more powerful than you?
Maddie Orton (20:34):
I don't know.
I'm terrified, guys.
I'm not gonna lie.
I I'm thinking about it now.
Brian Crowe (20:39):
That goes to AI, certainly, but that goes to
children.
I mean, that goes to theparenting thing too.
What happens when your childbecomes more than you are?
Which is what every parent Ihope hopes for.
That your child will be more.
But then when they are, whathappens?
That that becomes a veryinteresting component of this
story.
Maddie Orton (20:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so for people who come tosee the show, I mean, what are
you most excited about themexperiencing with this
production?
Brian Crowe (21:04):
I think that for uh for me, I I'm gonna have a fun,
fun time at theater.
I mean, we we we go to theater,yes, you you'll have some uh uh
moral dilemmas that are thrownat you that the characters are
struggling with.
That's great.
Um, but really it's to have agreat time at the theater,
despite everything we're saying,or not despite in in in concert
with everything we're sayingabout all the deep elements of
longing and love, and there'slots of humor in this product in
(21:26):
this script, uh, especiallyearly on, which is great, and
lots of humanity in this in thisproduction, there's still a lot
of great, terrifying moments.
So, people, if you want, if youwant to see something moving
and romantic and elegant andterrifying and fun uh and
exciting, perfectly timed, Ithink, for Halloween and the
fall season, uh, then this is ashow to see.
If you're looking for flatheadsand bolts in next, you're not
(21:48):
gonna see that.
Um, after the show.
Maddie Orton (21:51):
Okay, great.
Sean will deliver that at thestage door.
I appreciate that.
Brian Crowe (21:55):
After the show, yeah, yeah.
So yeah.
So but yeah, I think I thinkpeople to have a re-examining of
uh of a piece that they thinkthey know and have fun with it.
Jay Wade (22:03):
So I'm still aiming for like, you know, we get some
we get some tarps for the frontrow.
I said the first day, it waslike a Gallagher show, but what?
Yeah.
And I'm all I'm with showing.
Maddie Orton (22:19):
Isn't that what everybody's looking for?
Is to get really dressed up fora night at the theater and then
just be in a splash zone.
Love that.
Oh my gosh.
Well, guys, it sounds sofantastic, and I'm so excited
for you.
Really terrific concept, reallyterrific show, and uh, I hope
it does well by you guys.
I hope you enjoy yourselves.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for taking thetime.
(22:39):
Appreciate it.
Brian Crowe (22:40):
Thanks, Mary.
Maddie Orton (22:43):
Thanks to Brian Crow, Jay Wade, and Sean Michael
Wilkinson for joining me.
Mary Shelley's Frankensteinwill run at the Shakespeare
Theater of New Jersey fromOctober 22nd through November
16th.
For more information, visitshakespeernj.org.
If you like this episode, besure to give us a review,
subscribe, and tell yourfriends.
A transcript of this podcast,as well as links to related
(23:04):
content and more about the artsin New Jersey, can be found on
jerseyarts.com.
The JerseyArts podcast ispresented by Art Pride New
Jersey, advancing a state ofcreativity since 1986.
The show is co-founded by andcurrently supported by funds
from the New Jersey StateCouncil on the Arts.
This episode was hosted,produced, and edited by yours
(23:25):
truly, Maddie Orton.
Executive producers are JimAtkinson and Isaac Cernadiaz.
Special thanks to theShakespeare Theater of New
Jersey.
I'm Maddie Orton for the JerseyArts Podcast.
Thanks for listening.
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Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
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