July 24, 2023 • 47 mins
Join Jim Serpico as he talks to Sam Silverman, a self-proclaimed expert on bagels. Sam's obsession with bagels started at a young age, and it only grew stronger after he moved to New York City and had his first taste of an authentic New York bagel. The experience was a revelation for Sam, who had previously only known bagels from chain stores like Einstein's and Dunkin Donuts. He realized he had been missing out on the real deal all along and became fascinated with the history and evolution of this beloved bread.
In this episode, Sam takes us on a journey through the history of bagels, from their origins in 17th-century Poland to their arrival in New York City with Jewish immigrants in the 1800s. He explains the different iterations it has gone through in the past 150 years, including the creation of Montreal-style bagels. Sam also shares some interesting milestones in bagel evolution, such as the introduction of the Everything bagel in the 1960s.
But it doesn't stop there. The internet has revolutionized the way we access information about bagels. Sam explains how the democratization of information has given rise to a new generation of bagel enthusiasts and makers who are passionate about crafting authentic New York-style bagels. Thanks to YouTube, anyone can now learn the craft of bagel-making with the right ingredients from their local grocery store.
Whether you're a bagel lover or just curious about the history and evolution of this iconic bread, this episode is not to be missed. Join us as we explore the world of bagels with Sam Silverman, a man who has dedicated his life to mastering the craft of this beloved bread.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jim-serpico-bread-for-the-people-sourdough-pizza-life--5704379/support.
In this episode, Sam takes us on a journey through the history of bagels, from their origins in 17th-century Poland to their arrival in New York City with Jewish immigrants in the 1800s. He explains the different iterations it has gone through in the past 150 years, including the creation of Montreal-style bagels. Sam also shares some interesting milestones in bagel evolution, such as the introduction of the Everything bagel in the 1960s.
But it doesn't stop there. The internet has revolutionized the way we access information about bagels. Sam explains how the democratization of information has given rise to a new generation of bagel enthusiasts and makers who are passionate about crafting authentic New York-style bagels. Thanks to YouTube, anyone can now learn the craft of bagel-making with the right ingredients from their local grocery store.
Whether you're a bagel lover or just curious about the history and evolution of this iconic bread, this episode is not to be missed. Join us as we explore the world of bagels with Sam Silverman, a man who has dedicated his life to mastering the craft of this beloved bread.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jim-serpico-bread-for-the-people-sourdough-pizza-life--5704379/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
I'm happy to say Bread for thePeople has a new sponsor. Farmer Ground
Flower was nice enough the sponsor Breadfor the People, and I wanted to
tell you a little bit more aboutthem. Here's what I discovered. So
it's a team of conscientious millers offarmers that was started in about two thousand
and nine by three friends, GregRusso, Neil Johnson and Thor Oxner.
(00:26):
They're rooted in the Finger Lakes regionand they used local organic grains and focus
on supporting local communities. They're committedto leading the growth of sustainable grain economy.
Farmer Ground has designed their stone groundmilling process to retain the integrity of
the grain, allowing natural nutrients,fibers, oils, and flavors to speak
for themselves. I particularly like baconwith the high extraction bread flower. It's
(00:51):
an eighty five percent extraction flower thatis sifted to remove a large portion of
the brand while retaining the wheat germ, resulting in great flavors and risian Go
to Farmer groundflower dot com to learnmore. I highly recommend Farmer Ground and
I like to thank them for sponsoringBread for the People. My name's Jim
Serpico. And this should I startwith my name? What should I start
(01:14):
with? This is bread for thepeople? Do you like it like this?
Welcome to bread? Or do youlike it like this? Welcome Retty,
Welcome to Bread for the people.Mind is there a script? Welcome
to Bread for the People. I'mJim Serpico. Today I have a very
(01:38):
special guest. He gives bagel toursaround New York City. He holds a
bagel making class. He is anexpert on everything bagel. Please welcome Sam
Silverman. Are you doing buddy,I'm doing great. I'm bageled up.
How are you, Jim? I'mgood, good man. It's been a
(02:00):
while since we've spoken. I'm lookingforward to catching up with you today.
I had the pleasure of doing yourInstagram show about a year back, and
I've been keeping up with everything youhave going on. It seems like you're
pretty bad busy. Yeah, lot'schange in the past year. You know.
I'm growing, You're growing. We'reall doing our best, and we've
(02:23):
got some exciting stuff in the works. Yeah. That's all we could do
is our best. So I wantto give the listeners some context. You
are known around the country as thebagel Ambassador. You are very knowledgeable about
(02:43):
all things bagel, the history ofthe bagel. You keep up with the
the best bagel makers in the country. So let's start with the interest.
Where did this all stem from?For you? This has been a lifelong
(03:04):
passion. I don't even remember whereit really stemmed from, because bagels have
always been my favorite food since Icould remember, and I grew up not
even in New York. I grewup in Minnesota, Massachusetts, eating the
Einstein's and Dunkin Donuts and Brugers ofthe world, and still it was my
favorite food. So you can imaginewhen I moved down to New York and
(03:27):
the first time I had a trueNew York bagel completely blew my mind and
made me realize what I thought wasmy favorite food was a pale imitation of
the real deal. So I guessthat moment right there, which I guess
was in like twenty fifteen twenty fifteenaround there, is when my mind was
(03:51):
open to the possibilities of what bagelscould be and set me off on this
journey. So I'm probably your parents'age, and I'm just trying to compare
what I remember growing up in LongIsland is bagels around us all everywhere.
(04:13):
My girlfriend who is now my wife, she was my girlfriend in high school.
She worked at the local bagel shopin East Meadow, Long Island.
She would come home and she wouldsmell like seeds and like the smell of
the bagel, you know, wouldwould stick for hours after you come home
from the bagel shop. And thenI remember bringing friends down from Rochester,
(04:36):
New York in about eighty five,nineteen eighty five, and for them,
the experience was new. It wasintimidating. They would walk into the bagel
shop and they wouldn't know how toorder a bagel because it wasn't mainstream,
I guess. And now it's mainstreameverywhere. But I do wonder, even
(05:00):
in New York, when did itcome mainstream because I talked a lot of
bagel people in the last couple ofyears, and you know, there's been
some great bagel shops around right sincethe early nineteen hundred stores the nineteen thirties.
Yeah, I mean, there havebeen a couple of milestones in the
bagel's evolution. So it's a breadthat goes back to the seventeenth century in
(05:23):
Poland, made its way to NewYork in the eighteen hundreds when Jewish immigrants
came and settled in New York Cityin Montreal, which is why Montreal has
its own style of bagel, andit's gone through several iterations over the past
one hundred and fifty years being astaple of New York Now. I would
argue that if you look at thebagel's history, one of the key milestones
(05:45):
was the development of the bagel rollingmachine and the mass production and commercialization of
the bagel by led by Lenders Bagels, Murray Lender and Lenders Bagels. Do
you remember Lenders Bagels. Yeah,I remember him from a show called Wanda
Rama. I was a kid.They were a sponsor, so NYC Channel
five one to Rama. That makesa lot of sense because Murray Lender single
(06:08):
handedly went on a multidecade, multimilliondollar marketing campaign to convince the American public
that the bagel was not just someniche Jewish food but a staple part of
an all American breakfast. And thatis what kind of gave the bagel the
kick in the pants to become thispart of American food culture that spread beyond
the borders of New York City tothe rest of the country and the rest
(06:30):
of the world. So, andthat happened in the sixties. So I
think it's been like a slow evolutionsince the sixties. And then, of
course the Internet has really accelerated things. It's democratized information that used to be
held as closely kept secrets by thebagel union members and the bagel makers here
in New York. Now anybody canlook up a YouTube video and learn how
(06:53):
to make an authentic New York bagelwith ingredients they can find at their local
grocery store. Well, you've mentioneda couple of things that I want to
explore a little more, and I'veheard you talk about it. I think
we talked about it when I wason your Instagram show, and quite honestly,
I was faking my way through ita little bit. I haven't I
(07:15):
haven't eaten bagels in Montreal, Socan you tell us all? And probably
a lot of my listeners know moreabout the difference than me. But what
is the difference between a New Yorkstyle bagel and in Montreal bagel? Different
ingredients in a different process. Soin New York, the classic bagels made
(07:36):
with five ingredients. It's water,high gluten, flour, yeast, barley,
malt and salt, and in Montrealthey don't use barley, malt and
salt. They put honey and eggsinto their dough instead. In New York
we let our bagels proof cold fermentfor about twenty four hours. In Montreal
they immediately boiled the bagels after theymake the dough. They also finished them
(07:59):
off in wood fired ovens, whereashere we use gas or electric and they
also boil in honey water. Sothey're getting like there's a nice, rich
sweetness to it. It's a lotdenser, smaller, there's a big hole
in the middle. It's not asversatile as a New York style bagel.
It's harder to eat as a sandwich. And the two main shops there don't
even make sandwiches. You just goand buy a bag of bagels and have
(08:22):
to get a tub of cream cheeseon the side to do the old rip
and dip. But it's to me, it's closer to like, you know,
the street pretzels that we have herethan it is New York bagel.
I was are they darker in colortoo? Because all that sweetness makes it
will make in bread making that youknow, you put that much sugar or
(08:43):
honey or anything sweet, it's gonnamake it browner. They definitely can be.
I mean, the thing is,the New York bagels span the gamut
in terms of the shades and colorsyou can find them in. So I'm
not gonna say it's like always darker, but yeah, I think so.
They're they're pretty rich, and they'redelicious. If you get a hot sesameseed
(09:03):
bagel out the oven at Saint Peteror Fairmont, the two main shops up
there, it's a kind of unparalleledexperience. But in my opinion, the
bagel gets a little old after tenminutes. And I'll take a New York
bagel any day of the week.There you go. Um. Now,
I don't know if you were beingsarcastic when you talked about bagel unions or
(09:26):
you being serious. Oh there's sucha thing, and where does it is?
It still exist today? I'm beingone hundred percent serious. So the
city used to be controlled or thecity's bagel supply used to be controlled by
the bagel Baker's Union Local three threeeight. Excuse me. It was a
group of about three hundred Polish immigrants, you know, Yiddish speaking tough guys
(09:52):
that unionized to fight for better workingconditions, better wages, and better benefits
because back in the day, theyused to work in terrible working conditions.
The bagel bakers were stuck in subterraneanbasements with no windows, no air conditioning.
They had to work such long hoursthat they would have to sleep on
the bags of flour because there wasn'tenough time between shifts to go home to
(10:16):
rest. So it was really quiteterrible. And they managed to unionize to
fight for better conditions and would renegotiatetheir contracts with the bagel baker bagel bakery
owners on an annual basis, andeventually, you know, it became a
pretty lucrative and desirable job within theJewish community. And to you know,
(10:37):
they took it very seriously. Theywould pick it the shops that were using
non union labor to make bagels.They would only allow the sons or the
nephews of union members into the unionbecause they wanted to keep the secrets of
bagel making really closely and tightly guarded. So they were the ones that control
(11:00):
the bagel supply from the early nineteenhundreds up until the nineteen fifties, when
the bagel rolling machine was invented,which undercut their leverage, and eventually they
dissipated, folded into a larger bakersunion, and disappeared for good. Wow
they I mean, I could onlyimagine how bad the working conditions were back
then, and listen, it's evennow. It's just it's a tough business
(11:26):
a lot of just like the pizzaindustry. You know, it's not easy
to find workers these days. Ittakes a long time to prep and get
this stuff ready. It's pretty brutal. I can only imagine what it was
back then. Yeah, it was. It was tough, and today,
you know, it's really fascinating howbagel making has developed so the best bagels
(11:48):
are still rolled by hand by professionalbagel bakers and rollers. That's what I
was going to ask you. Yeah, with the advent of the bagel bagel
rolling machine, was it widely usedin New York? Because I'm not as
familiar with the bagels stores that Ifrequent using machines like that. They're still
(12:09):
handrolled today, even here in LongIsland, which I would argue has as
good of a bagel as anywhere elsein the New York Tri State area.
You know, so it seems likeit might have helped it spread elsewhere in
the country, but maybe not NewYork. Is that the case it was
(12:31):
used? It was used in NewYork, you know sparingly. I think
even today there are still bagel shopsthat are using machines and you may not
even know it. Um. Yeah, but like I, you know,
I don't want to name any names, but there are several well known bagel
shops that are using machines to helpproduce their products. But you are right
(12:56):
that the best bagels are still handrolled. And it's because bagel dough is
a low hydration dough. It's verytough, it's very resilient, and it's
difficult for a machine to handle thatsort of dough. And so when you
roll it by hand, like theseguys that are rolling them have been doing
it for years, decades, theirentire lives. Their dads rolled bagels.
(13:20):
They learned from old members of theunion. And that's not an exaggeration.
I want to tell you a quickstory about the bagel rollers of today.
So the majority of bagel rollers inNew York City are Thai men, and
the reason for that is in thenineteen eighties, the Thai government invited old
members of the Bagel Bakers Union Localthree three eight to come to Thailand and
(13:41):
train their people in the hopes ofcreating a bagel industry in Thailand. So
they flew them over, put themup for several months train dozens of Thai
men how to roll and make bagels. And at the conclusion of the training,
all of those Thai men moved toNew York and got jobs here because
there were already established shops that werewilling to pay them good wages. And
(14:03):
today the majority of bagel rollers inNew York City are the sons and nephews
and friends of those Thai bagel rollerswho came to the city in the in
the eighties. And so these guyshave been doing it literally their entire lives.
They learned from their dads, wholearned from the Bagel Bakers Union,
and that skill cannot be replicated bya machine. So that's why the best
(14:28):
bagels are still a hand roll.That's fascinating. Has there ever been a
documentary on that? Not to myknowledge, I would love to make one,
though I'm with you. Let's let'sdo it, man. It really
sounds fascinating. It is it's quitea it's such a peculiar thing, but
(14:50):
you know, it's really it's reallycool to see. You know, the
bagel has been this historically Jewish food, which we were immigrants here in New
York, and now it's kind ofshifted into other immigrant communities and it's giving
them a profession and a livelihood thatis sustaining them and their families. So
(15:13):
it's kind of cool to see theevolution of it over time. Now you
talked about Polish immigrants come into theUnited States and kind of kicking things off
with your interest in bagels. Haveyou ever made the trip over to Europe
and gone to Poland? And doyou know if the Polish bagel in Poland,
(15:35):
if there is such a thing,resembles anything like we have. So
the Polish bagel, I'll put inquotes because a lot of cultures have a
bagel sort of thing like around breadwith a hole in the middle. The
Polish one is called an obladajani andit is very similar to the pretzels that
(15:56):
we have on the street corners there, like crackery and texture. They're a
lot tougher. They're like a hardpretzel and you can sell you know,
you can get them on any streetcorner and crack hour anywhere in Poland.
I haven't been there myself, butI've spoken to many people that have visited,
and they say, you know,it's not as good as a bagel,
(16:17):
but that that is the food thatkind of inspired we think inspired the
bagel. It was the Obarjani beforethat led to the Jewish community creating the
bagel. And the reason that thebagel exists, I would just you know,
give a little more context here.It came from fairly dark roots.
There were anti Semitic restrictions that preventedJews in Poland from working certain jobs,
(16:41):
living certain places, doing certain things. And one of the restrictions was that
they were not allowed to bake bread, and this was to prevent competition with
the Christian bakers. So the loopholeto get around it is that the Jewish
bakers would boil their dough instead ofbaking it, and that is how the
bagel came to be. They kindof looked at the Obar Johanny and they
(17:03):
said, hey, we can makesomething like this, we just have to
boil the dough instead. And thatis the origin of the bagel and why
it's been such an important part ofJewish cuisine and culture since the seventeenth century.
That's absolutely amazing. Now, Iwould assume the crackering texture feeling allows
(17:25):
it to be less perishable. Maybeit's almost like a toasted thing. And
because that's the issue with that idealwith I'm sure that's the issue with all
bagel makers. You have to kindof guess right in the morning, well
the night before, as you're preppingthis stuff, because you're going to be
stuck with a lot of bagels ifyou don't sell them, because they're not
(17:45):
sellable the next day. One hundredpercent. One hundred percent. And I
mean that that is one of theadvantages that the bagel has. When you
boil it and you create that outercrust, it retains the moisture on the
inside of the you know, ofthe bagel, so that you know,
back in the day, and inseventeenth century Poland, they were eating bagels
(18:06):
two three days after they were madeby dunking it in water, cracking it
open, and then eating the doughout of the inside that was still soft
and edible. And back then too, the bagel was only two to three
ounces large. It was pretty small, and it was eaten as a snack
or as a dinner roll. Soit was you know, it was very
similar to the pretzel, but therewas no such thing as cream cheese,
(18:27):
or locks or sandwiches anything like that. It was a versatile bread that was
relatively inexpensive and easy to produce,and it had the practical advantage that it
would last for several days. Wereusing that protective crust to keep the bread
inside moist, right, And that'sgreat for the customer when you buy it,
(18:52):
you know it's gonna last several days. But the bagel shops don't sell
it past a day, right,correct, I mean the bagel shops around
here, absolutely not. You canget day olds for cheap at some shops,
but the bagels that you're buying atany self respecting shop is going to
be giving you something fresh that wasbaked that's that morning. Now. Where
did the appetizing shops come into thebagel scene, right, Because the most
(19:18):
famous of them all as far asI know, is Russ and Daughters in
New York City, which to medirectly correlates to things you would buy to
put on your bagel. Correct,Yeah, So Russ and Daughters I want
to get the year right. Ithink it was nineteen fourteen, and it
(19:40):
was. It's now a fourth generationowned, you know, still in the
in the family, passed down generationto generation and that so in Jewish food,
Jewish cuisine, you know, havingkosher food is very important, and
one of the main things is you'renot allowed to make meat and milk.
(20:02):
So appetizing shops take care of thefish and the dairy products, while the
delis focus on the meat products.And so these have been important parts of
Jewish and Kosher cuisine since Jews havebeen in New York City. They were
important not just from a culinary perspective, but also they were a safe place
(20:27):
for Jewish people to gather, toget together, to discuss politics, to
discuss current events, and they reallybecame these havens for Jewish people to meet
up and build community. So theyentered the scene in you know, in
New York in the early nineteen hundreds, and Russian Daughters has definitely been the
(20:48):
longest standing one and the best knownone of all the appetizing shops that existed.
But you didn't used to buy bagelsat russ and Daughters. You would
have to go to the bagel shopdown the street to get your bagels,
then go to Russ and Daughters getyour smoked fish, and then you would
create that bagel, cream cheese andlocks sandwich or Nova sandwich for yourself at
(21:11):
home and for your family. What'sinteresting about that combination is I feel like
Russ and Daughters is more well knownthan whatever bagel shop might have existed in
nineteen fourteen or what you know,where you went to go get your bagel.
I can't even name what that wouldbe like. That is the most
(21:33):
famous New York City oldest bagel shop. The oldest one that I know of
is Cosars Bagels and Balis, whichhas been operating in the Lower East Side
since nineteen thirty six. They arethe oldest operating bali bakery in the country.
They didn't start making bagels until thefifties, I think, but they
(21:55):
are still around today making excellent bagelsand balis. There may be a shop
older than that, but that's theone that I'm the most aware of.
And yeah, you're you're right thatyou know, Russing Daughters has kind of
surpassed the fame of any single bagelshop, and I'd be curious to know
(22:15):
why that is. I don't havea great explanation for that, and maybe
I grew up in the Long Islandbubble, but I feel like, well
in Queens, I feel like it'sthe Queens and Long Island bagel shops that
were the names I remember. Imean you you say Leander's Bagels, you
(22:37):
talk about them, and I rememberthem being frozen, right, yep,
Yeah, they were frozen, SoI didn't equate that with Bagel Boss or
things like that. Change like that. And then of course Utopia Bagels.
I don't know if that's an earlyone or not, but it's certainly famous.
(23:00):
Yeah, Utopia is probably the mostfamous. Now. They've been around
since the seventies, but they've kindof picked up in the social media,
you know age, I would say, in the last ten years. But
you're you're right that, like LendersBagels, was an entirely different animal,
entirely different beast than the local bagelchains like Bagel Boss, which has been
an iconic New York, you know, Long Island chain since the seventies as
(23:22):
well. And Murray Lender realized thatby preslicing freezing and shipping them all over
the country that he could you knowhe could make a fortune by introducing the
bagel to places that didn't have them, so I think he wouldn't see it
as much growing up in an areathat had a bunch of bagel shops around,
because he was targeting they were targetingmore the areas that didn't have any
(23:47):
bagels at all and kind of introducingit to those people. Now, a
couple of things that he did tomake it more popular and appealing to the
masses was one, he made theirbread closer to wonderbread, which is the
popular bread at the time, soit truly is a bagel shaped bread,
not really a bagel. And twois he introduced sweet flavors like blueberry and
(24:08):
cinnamon raising because he knew that theAmerican public loves their sweets. And to
this day, Jim the most popularbagel flavor in the country is a blueberry
bagel. Never would have guessed that. Can you believe in a million years
would have guessed this. No,that's that's because that's how most people were
(24:30):
introduced to it. Wow, Idon't know. That blows my mind.
I've been trying to if not abagel like I am now specializing in this
Scotch shot of bread, which isa light airy facaccia like bread. And
sometimes when I bring my food trailerto a farmer's market, I'm there in
(24:52):
morning hours and I've been trying toget people to taste this cream cheese and
red onion on this Italian light everybread and it's not going over men,
it's not working, but it tastesamazing. I just can't people to cross
over. They like they need thebagel. The bagels actually heavier in a
(25:17):
lot of ways, way heavier,way denser. Yeah, it's just this,
it's this iconic trio the bagels,the cream cheese and the locks that
you know, people just so deeplyassociate with each other that it's hard to
replace any one of those ingredients.Yeah, it's it's pretty damn You never
know, you never know, Yeah, you never know. We get the
(25:40):
right person to talk about it,who knows. Um. So, in
terms of breakthroughs in the bagel business, we talked about lenders, you know.
So between the seventies and now,what have been any, if any
major turning points in the bagel business. There's been two big ones, and
(26:07):
one I know you're very familiar withis the creation of the everything bagel,
right, which is how we originallystarted talking, was that's right. You
did some investigation into where the everythingbagel came from, right, and found
that there is no real there's noreal clear answer, right, Like several
people kind of claim yea for itseveral It seems to be the kind of
(26:32):
thing that it happens in comedy too. Instand up comedy. You know,
people are reading the news, they'reliving separate lives all around the country,
and they happen to tell a jokecompletely on their own, and at the
round the same time, someone elsetells a similar joke, and then there's
this thing who stole from who Isaid it first. In my opinion,
(26:56):
that's what happened with the everything bagel, because you talked to all these guys.
I think they really came up withit on their own. I don't
think they necessarily stole it. Butaround the same time, they found that
they were using all these seeds fromdifferent things, from poppied assault to this
and that, and rather than wastethem, they combined them. And a
lot of people did it around thesame time and had success with it.
(27:19):
And you know, just like Iclaim to have invented the presuto bite out
of prasutto bread. There's probably otherpeople that have done it, but you
know, in their way they inventedit, but you can't really you can't
really prove it. And they mayhave invented it around the same year at
(27:40):
the same time, who knows whoknows. But regardless of who deserves credit
for it, the fact is thateverything bagels. Seasoning has become immensely popular,
not just on bagels but on everything. I talk about frequently that everything
afacation of everything, because you canfind it in savory foods, you can
find it in sweet food, youcan find it on cake, donuts and
(28:00):
ice cream. There's everything seasoning bythe bottle. There's everything seasoning on everything
nowadays, and I think that hasreally helped the profile of the bagel in
the past forty years. You knowwhat's hilarious to me about that is,
I swear this is true. TheItalians are just discovering it. The New
York Italians just now in twenty twentythree, they're like, oh my god,
(28:23):
you know you could. And I'mtalking about guys that produce massive amounts
of bread and have been in breadfamilies forever are just starting to use everything
seeds and talking about it like itwas just invented. I mean, it
takes time for these things to maketheir way around. I'm I'm really curious
to see what they do with it, because I'm sure it's going to be
amazing. Yeah yeah, Okay,so the everything bagel, and then I
(28:48):
think I know what the next oneis. Well, and I think there
is a person credited with the actualinvention of this. This is correct,
Yes, rainbow bagel. You're talkingthe rainbow bagel exactly. So Scott Razillo
was a bagel baker in East Williamsburgwho invented the rainbow bagel, which is
you know, for anyone that hasn'tseen it, it's got different layers of
(29:12):
colored dough rolled together, so itresembles a rainbow. Scott, who fancied
himself an artist, not a baker, but an artist, came up with
the idea for the rainbow bagel inthe early two thousands and kept at it
for years and years and years,and finally in twenty fifteen, Instagram helped
(29:33):
it go super viral. So Scotthad been you know, similar to it.
Like I said, with your Fikashacreation, just keep at it.
Because you never know. Scott keptat it for I don't know a dozen
years, making it for himself andhis local customers, and then one day
it goes viral on Instagram and itchanged his entire life. You know,
it became insanely popular. It gotpicked up by the mainstream media far and
(29:57):
wide. People were traveling to EastWilliamsburg from all over the world waiting in
hours long lines to try this covetedrainbow bagel, which takes exactly like a
Plaine bagel. Well, Scott,to his credit, he made it.
(30:17):
He really souped it up. Hewould put all these sweet cream cheeses,
cotton candy, all these different crazycreations. It was really like more the
cake than bagel in my opinion,but it was. It was a huge
success for Scott. Now, therest of the bagel community reacted in horror.
I mean, people don't even likeyou know, bagel purists don't even
(30:40):
like blueberry bagels, don't like sweetbagels, let alone a rainbow bagel,
and so people called it an abomination. You know, they thought, this
is this is not a bagel atall. But it has been the perfect
bagel for the age of social media, where everyone is posting their food all
the time, and the rainbow bagelis so photogenic that it's kept bagels on
(31:04):
people's minds because they see them onsocial media and on the internet all the
time. Kids love them, touristslove them, and I think, you
know, nowadays, probably four outof five bagel shops are offering a bit
of rainbow bagel. They may not, you know, make it themselves,
but they found that it's something thatpeople want and you got to kind of
(31:26):
meet the customer where they are.We bought them this weekend. We had,
you know, so what fourth ofJuly weekend. My middle son was
in from California, My brother wasin and his family was in from New
Hampshire. My sister in law wasin from Connecticut. They all want bagels.
They can't They still can't get thebagels they want to get in these
(31:49):
places. So we got bagels,and of course we got rainbow bagels because
they were kids, and the kidslove the rainbow bagels. It's just they
just love them. But now speakingof this, I mean, we know
it's possible to make a great bagelin Connecticut, which is only fifty minutes
from Manhattan, and I keep kickingmyself, like I should ditch everything,
(32:14):
and I should do it because it'sgot to be like you just need the
guys. You need the hand rollingguys. You boil it in your water,
you use the same rest. It'sdoable. Is the problem that they're
buying these machines and they're making lighterair or dough that could go through the
machines so that it doesn't have tobe hand rolled. So there's a couple
(32:38):
of there's a couple of things thatyou'll find in bagels outside of the New
York metro area. One, theycould be machine rolled. Another common method
is poking a hole through a ballof dough doesn't give it the same twist
and texture as you're gonna find now, which, by the way, you
(33:00):
know in my sour dough baking andI baked some bagels. When you look
up a lot of recipes, alot of people teach you to poke a
hole through it. Yeah, becausethey don't they don't know how to do
it the traditional way by hand rollingit, and it's it's difficult to do.
It's daunting if you've never done itbefore and you don't have someone to
(33:21):
teach you. It's not the easiestskill. So portioning out the dough and
poking a hole in the middle isdefinitely the more intuitive and the easier way
to do it. But it doesn'tresult in the same texture at the end
of the day that you're going toget when you get a true hand rolled,
hand twisted bagel. And so Ithink that is certainly one big difference.
(33:45):
Now, Jim, I have hadgreat bagels outside of New York,
and almost every time it's been aNew Yorker who learned how to make them
here and moved out of the citysomewhere else, from Nashville to Denver,
and you know, applied the knowledgethat they learned. So people ask me
(34:06):
all the time, is it thewater? Is it the water that make
New York bagels great? The wateris helpful. We have a very soft
water here in New York. It'slow in the mineral concentrates that make it
ideal for bread baking, and ofcourse, like any other ingredient that you
put into your food, it's goingto impact the end result. That being
(34:28):
said, while the water is helpful, it's not necessary. You can make
great bagels without the water. AndI think it's the knowledge and the skills,
and you know the generations really ofinstitutional knowledge that exists here in the
New York metro area and in Montrealthat get passed down and down and down.
(34:51):
So I think you can do it, and I think people are doing
it. Question So in pizza,I believe it was Chris beyond Go in
Phoenix, Arizona that really, youknow, was the guy who people said,
this pizza here in Phoenix is asgood as any pizza you could get
in New York and it is nowis there is there an analogy here?
(35:15):
Is there a bagel place outside ofthe Tri state area somewhere else in the
country that you could tell us aboutthat if we're traveling, we should definitely
visit. And is a great bagel? There's two places. One is right
in our neck of the woods popUp Bagels in Connecticut. So they are
the two times winner of the bestbagel at where is it? We're in
(35:38):
Connecticut. They're in Westport, Connecticut. They have several different outposts that they
sell bagels in. They just openedup their first brick and mortar in Greenwich
Village here in the city. Really, but they are a Connecticut based bagel
and they've beaten. You know,the who's who of New York bagel shops
at the past couple of Bagel Festevents, which is centered around a best
(36:00):
bagel competition where everyone is gutting forthis top prize. So Papa Bagels is
one. And then according to TheNew York Times, the best bagels in
the country are in California. Theycited In twenty twenty one, the New
York Times published an article saying,sorry, New York, the best bagels
are in California, and they citedCourage Bagels and in La and boy Check
(36:24):
Bagels in Berkeley as bagel bakers thatare making better bagels that exist here in
New York. So those are thoseare the couple that I would throw out
there that have garnered a reputation.Now, some would argue that Courage and
Pop Up are making not bagels butbread, bagel shaped bread that is,
(36:47):
you know, still delicious by allmeans, but not truly a bagel if
you want to get nitty griddy intothe details. So it's it's stirred up
a lot of controversy. There's there'shot debate in the bagel world right now
over what constitutes a bagel. Andwho makes the best. What are these
two places using the bagel for?Are they making sandwiches like traditional sandwiches?
(37:12):
Are they doing traditional appetizing and creamcheese pop up as traditional appetizing and cream
cheese. They don't make sandwiches.You have to buy minimum three bagels plus
a schmere, plus you can getthe fish if you want. You have
to make it yourself. And thenCourage is on the other end of the
spectrum where they're doing these really decadentsandwiches and are using the bagel as like
(37:36):
a base. So they're doing that'skind of what I'm doing my food truck,
which Scotch out of bread because I'mtaking a page from Tartine or Republic
Bakery out in Los Angeles, rightand using my bread is the anchor to
serve meals on yep, which islike very common nowadays. And it's import
I mean, you know the economicsof it. Oh yeah, yeah.
(37:57):
If you're not pumping out the volumethat you can do in a New York
bagel shop here where you've got thousandsand thousands of people coming through your door
and ordering online every day, thenyou need that higher ticket price. Okay,
could I I'm gonna give you alesson you didn't ask for in how
this could backfire on me. Ijust before this call, got got off
(38:28):
the phone with a fair here inLong Island to bring my food truck to.
Because that's right, I'm only doingthis now three weeks and you have
to pay sight fees and they rangefrom fifty dollars to what I'm about to
tell you, So they want ninehundred and fifty dollars for me to park
at this fair for eight hours forone day. That's before I pay my
(38:52):
food costs, before I pay myemployees. So it's funny, like one
of the reasons I did this newbusiness model is because of what you just
said. I said, Hey,I think I could, uh you know,
get a higher ticket price. Icould probably increase my profits by selling
(39:13):
food. Instead of a loaf ofbread for five six eight, I could
sell sandwiches for fifteen sixteen and havea family and so on. But the
expense is a crazy it's it's notso I don't know yet if it's going
to be better or not. Umyeah, I mean it's not throw that
(39:34):
in there. No matter which wayyou slice it. It is not an
easy and you know, if itwas everyone would do it and then you'd
have to go the other way again. So it's finding what you do really
well and doubling tripling down on thatand uh, you know, trying to
be the best. You know,I was laughing when you said, what's
his last name? Uh, ScottRasilo? Rasilo? What what bagel store
(40:00):
are you from? By the way, the bagel store. Yeah, but
he refers to himself as an artist. You say, I kind of like
to think that too. I justI just said, you know, the
other day, my wife is like, you have you're adding items without me
knowing. You can't do this.You have to tell me. And we're
supposed to simplify things. And I'mlike, I'm an artist. I got
(40:21):
into this from film and television becauseI want to create art. But she's
right, you know, it's likeyou can only fit so much stuff on
this twelve foot truck. Um.But it is what keeps me inspired is
like trying these new things, andit's it's good for artists to have constraints
sometimes, right, Like yeah,can actually foster creexpected ways. So you
(40:45):
know, in speaking in that,I've really been studying how to I do
these bread bawls. So then thequestion is what he put in the bread
bowls? And you know, Ihave an Italian slant on the truck.
Um not everything has to be youknow that, but it's whatever it works
for me, it works for thecustomer base. And I've been trying to
(41:07):
figure out. The only heat sourceI have on the truck is a pizza
oven. Uh It's a Gosney domepizza oven that burns about nine hundred degrees.
Maybe the surface will get down tosix fifty. But I've how do
I prep pasta in here? AndI figured it out. I have figured
out, you know, how todo it so that you're getting an al
(41:30):
dente, freshly made pasta and abread ball off the truck. And it's
only because of the constraints. UmSo, I do think it's pretty awesome
to have constraints. That's not whatthey are. I would love some fresh
pasta and a fresh bread ball.I mean, that's a carb heaven right
there. It's a lot of carbs. You need a nap afterwards. Uh.
(41:53):
So we'll wrap things up. Ido want to hear about bagel Fest.
How long it's been going on?I know I was. I was
trying to get there last year andcouldn't because my farmer's markets. Are you
doing another one this year? Weare? Yeah, the fourth Annual Bagel
Fest is taking place October twenty firstand twenty second. We're moving it into
(42:15):
Manhattan this year, so we're jumpingacross the bridge from Brooklyn into Chelsea and
all right, Chelsea, you're doingit. I can't say the venue quite
yet. It'll be coming soon,but it'll be. You know, it's
a great new venue in the heartof the city, and I think it's
(42:36):
gonna help the event grow. Imean, we had over two thousand people,
thirty five vendors over the course ofthe weekend last year, and I'm
you know, except that that's comingfrom we started with three hundred and fifty
people in zero vendors in like anartist space in Bushwick, and now,
you know, it's it's grown quiteimmensely into what it is today, and
(42:57):
I think it's going to continue growingas the bagel industry's soul trade and consumer
show. And it's really an opportunityfor all these vendors who it's a platform
for them to show off what theydo to a really targeted and enthusiastic community
who's excited to engage with them,in addition to lots of industry suppliers people
(43:23):
who you know who work cream,cheese, coffee, smoke, fish,
whatever, who are there to networkand try to facilitate new relationships and business
and trade and commerce with all ofthese amazing bagel shops that are there.
So it's it's turned into both.There's a consumer element to it and a
trade element as well, And soI'm trying to figure out, you know,
(43:45):
how to how to grow this thingand satisfy kind of both both customers,
both types of customers. So I'vehad this conversation with about Pizza Fest.
H well, the Pizza Expo sorryin Las Vegas, and I know
they have other cities they do itin, but I talked to people pros
who go and attend, and it'smostly an industry festival. Yeah, but
(44:10):
they do one day consumer event outof the three days, and then they
go heavy industry with panels and peoplethat I know in the business from New
York and the rest of the countryfly in and make the plans around attending
it. And it sounds pretty damnawesome, but it is two completely different
(44:32):
things in a way. Yeah,yeah, and it look this has been
an unexpected evolution for me. Imean I started Bigelfests because it was an
event I wanted to go to asa consumer, and that was the approach
that I took with it. Ididn't imagine it was going to turn into
this industry professional trade show and havethis whole element to it. And so
(44:53):
now you know, what you justsaid makes a whole lot of sense.
Is dedicate one or two days toone out of things and another one or
two days to uh, you know, to the consumer side of things to
help satisfy both both both types ofcustomers. But this year is going to
be great. We've got some amazingvendors lined up, some amazing sponsors,
(45:15):
you know, moving into Chelsea,I think is just going to help with
the accessibility of it draw an evenbigger crowd. And you know, Pop
Up Bagels has really shown what youcan do by winning the Best Bagel award.
They were a pandemic project that startedin Adam Goldberg's backyard over the course
(45:37):
of pandemic and you know a fewyears later they win the Best Bagel at
Bagelfest and now all of a suddenyou know, they're the most viral bagel
on TikTok and Instagram, and they'reall over the place, and they've got
celebrity investors like Paul Rudd and MichaelPhelps and you know, all of these
crazy big names that are helping themexpand nationally. So it's a pretty it's
(45:58):
pretty cool to see what people havedone with the plat form and what it
can do for these small mom andpop shops that may not have the marketing
resources to compete with the big corporations. Wild I'm interested in uh learning more
about that. And tickets will beon sale for Bagel Fest starting win uh
(46:20):
in a couple of weeks. Yeah, by by the end of July.
We're still shoring up a few detailsand the event takes place October twenty first,
twenty second, but we'll have ticketson sale by the end of July,
all right, And we could allfollow the Bagel Ambassador on Instagram or
what's the exact handle, bagel Ambassador. That's what I am on Instagram,
um, and you know you canfollow Bagel Fest as well. But but
(46:43):
yeah, this has been great,Jim. I appreciate it's great to catch
up with you, and I hopeyou can make it work for I know
you were talking about collaboring with BagelBoss last year on your Pursuado. I'm
still interested in it. Okay,we'll let it happen. Let's make it
happen. All right, we'll talkoffline about that. Sam. It was
good to talk to you. Ihoped to be at Bagelfest this year and
(47:06):
we'll talk soon, Buddy. Soundsgreat, Thanks Jim. This episode of
Bread for the People was brought toyou by Side Hustle Bread, Long Island's
handcrafted artisanal bread company. Side HustleBread is a family run business that's bringing
the neighborhood field back to Long Island, one loaf at a time. If
you like what you're hearing, don'tforget to head on over tie iTunes and
(47:27):
rate and review this episode. Reviewingand rating is the most effective way to
help us grow our audience. Thisepisode was produced by Milestone TV and Film.
I'm your host, Jim Serpico.Less it be the bread, Everyone,
I'm happy to say Bread for thePeople has a new sponsor. Farmer Ground
Flower was nice enough the sponsor Breadfor the People, and I wanted to
tell you a little bit more aboutthem. Here's what I discovered. So
it's a team of conscientious millers offarmers that was started in about two thousand
and nine by three friends, GregRusso, Neil Johnson and Thor Oxner.
(00:26):
They're rooted in the Finger Lakes regionand they used local organic grains and focus
on supporting local communities. They're committedto leading the growth of sustainable grain economy.
Farmer Ground has designed their stone groundmilling process to retain the integrity of
the grain, allowing natural nutrients,fibers, oils, and flavors to speak
for themselves. I particularly like baconwith the high extraction bread flower. It's
(00:51):
an eighty five percent extraction flower thatis sifted to remove a large portion of
the brand while retaining the wheat germ, resulting in great flavors and risian Go
to Farmer groundflower dot com to learnmore. I highly recommend Farmer Ground and
I like to thank them for sponsoringBread for the People. My name's Jim
Serpico. And this should I startwith my name? What should I start
(01:14):
with? This is bread for thepeople? Do you like it like this?
Welcome to bread? Or do youlike it like this? Welcome Retty,
Welcome to Bread for the people.Mind is there a script? Welcome
to Bread for the People. I'mJim Serpico. Today I have a very
(01:38):
special guest. He gives bagel toursaround New York City. He holds a
bagel making class. He is anexpert on everything bagel. Please welcome Sam
Silverman. Are you doing buddy,I'm doing great. I'm bageled up.
How are you, Jim? I'mgood, good man. It's been a
(02:00):
while since we've spoken. I'm lookingforward to catching up with you today.
I had the pleasure of doing yourInstagram show about a year back, and
I've been keeping up with everything youhave going on. It seems like you're
pretty bad busy. Yeah, lot'schange in the past year. You know.
I'm growing, You're growing. We'reall doing our best, and we've
(02:23):
got some exciting stuff in the works. Yeah. That's all we could do
is our best. So I wantto give the listeners some context. You
are known around the country as thebagel Ambassador. You are very knowledgeable about
(02:43):
all things bagel, the history ofthe bagel. You keep up with the
the best bagel makers in the country. So let's start with the interest.
Where did this all stem from?For you? This has been a lifelong
(03:04):
passion. I don't even remember whereit really stemmed from, because bagels have
always been my favorite food since Icould remember, and I grew up not
even in New York. I grewup in Minnesota, Massachusetts, eating the
Einstein's and Dunkin Donuts and Brugers ofthe world, and still it was my
favorite food. So you can imaginewhen I moved down to New York and
(03:27):
the first time I had a trueNew York bagel completely blew my mind and
made me realize what I thought wasmy favorite food was a pale imitation of
the real deal. So I guessthat moment right there, which I guess
was in like twenty fifteen twenty fifteenaround there, is when my mind was
(03:51):
open to the possibilities of what bagelscould be and set me off on this
journey. So I'm probably your parents'age, and I'm just trying to compare
what I remember growing up in LongIsland is bagels around us all everywhere.
(04:13):
My girlfriend who is now my wife, she was my girlfriend in high school.
She worked at the local bagel shopin East Meadow, Long Island.
She would come home and she wouldsmell like seeds and like the smell of
the bagel, you know, wouldwould stick for hours after you come home
from the bagel shop. And thenI remember bringing friends down from Rochester,
(04:36):
New York in about eighty five,nineteen eighty five, and for them,
the experience was new. It wasintimidating. They would walk into the bagel
shop and they wouldn't know how toorder a bagel because it wasn't mainstream,
I guess. And now it's mainstreameverywhere. But I do wonder, even
(05:00):
in New York, when did itcome mainstream because I talked a lot of
bagel people in the last couple ofyears, and you know, there's been
some great bagel shops around right sincethe early nineteen hundred stores the nineteen thirties.
Yeah, I mean, there havebeen a couple of milestones in the
bagel's evolution. So it's a breadthat goes back to the seventeenth century in
(05:23):
Poland, made its way to NewYork in the eighteen hundreds when Jewish immigrants
came and settled in New York Cityin Montreal, which is why Montreal has
its own style of bagel, andit's gone through several iterations over the past
one hundred and fifty years being astaple of New York Now. I would
argue that if you look at thebagel's history, one of the key milestones
(05:45):
was the development of the bagel rollingmachine and the mass production and commercialization of
the bagel by led by Lenders Bagels, Murray Lender and Lenders Bagels. Do
you remember Lenders Bagels. Yeah,I remember him from a show called Wanda
Rama. I was a kid.They were a sponsor, so NYC Channel
five one to Rama. That makesa lot of sense because Murray Lender single
(06:08):
handedly went on a multidecade, multimilliondollar marketing campaign to convince the American public
that the bagel was not just someniche Jewish food but a staple part of
an all American breakfast. And thatis what kind of gave the bagel the
kick in the pants to become thispart of American food culture that spread beyond
the borders of New York City tothe rest of the country and the rest
(06:30):
of the world. So, andthat happened in the sixties. So I
think it's been like a slow evolutionsince the sixties. And then, of
course the Internet has really accelerated things. It's democratized information that used to be
held as closely kept secrets by thebagel union members and the bagel makers here
in New York. Now anybody canlook up a YouTube video and learn how
(06:53):
to make an authentic New York bagelwith ingredients they can find at their local
grocery store. Well, you've mentioneda couple of things that I want to
explore a little more, and I'veheard you talk about it. I think
we talked about it when I wason your Instagram show, and quite honestly,
I was faking my way through ita little bit. I haven't I
(07:15):
haven't eaten bagels in Montreal, Socan you tell us all? And probably
a lot of my listeners know moreabout the difference than me. But what
is the difference between a New Yorkstyle bagel and in Montreal bagel? Different
ingredients in a different process. Soin New York, the classic bagels made
(07:36):
with five ingredients. It's water,high gluten, flour, yeast, barley,
malt and salt, and in Montrealthey don't use barley, malt and
salt. They put honey and eggsinto their dough instead. In New York
we let our bagels proof cold fermentfor about twenty four hours. In Montreal
they immediately boiled the bagels after theymake the dough. They also finished them
(07:59):
off in wood fired ovens, whereashere we use gas or electric and they
also boil in honey water. Sothey're getting like there's a nice, rich
sweetness to it. It's a lotdenser, smaller, there's a big hole
in the middle. It's not asversatile as a New York style bagel.
It's harder to eat as a sandwich. And the two main shops there don't
even make sandwiches. You just goand buy a bag of bagels and have
(08:22):
to get a tub of cream cheeseon the side to do the old rip
and dip. But it's to me, it's closer to like, you know,
the street pretzels that we have herethan it is New York bagel.
I was are they darker in colortoo? Because all that sweetness makes it
will make in bread making that youknow, you put that much sugar or
(08:43):
honey or anything sweet, it's gonnamake it browner. They definitely can be.
I mean, the thing is,the New York bagels span the gamut
in terms of the shades and colorsyou can find them in. So I'm
not gonna say it's like always darker, but yeah, I think so.
They're they're pretty rich, and they'redelicious. If you get a hot sesameseed
(09:03):
bagel out the oven at Saint Peteror Fairmont, the two main shops up
there, it's a kind of unparalleledexperience. But in my opinion, the
bagel gets a little old after tenminutes. And I'll take a New York
bagel any day of the week.There you go. Um. Now,
I don't know if you were beingsarcastic when you talked about bagel unions or
(09:26):
you being serious. Oh there's sucha thing, and where does it is?
It still exist today? I'm beingone hundred percent serious. So the
city used to be controlled or thecity's bagel supply used to be controlled by
the bagel Baker's Union Local three threeeight. Excuse me. It was a
group of about three hundred Polish immigrants, you know, Yiddish speaking tough guys
(09:52):
that unionized to fight for better workingconditions, better wages, and better benefits
because back in the day, theyused to work in terrible working conditions.
The bagel bakers were stuck in subterraneanbasements with no windows, no air conditioning.
They had to work such long hoursthat they would have to sleep on
the bags of flour because there wasn'tenough time between shifts to go home to
(10:16):
rest. So it was really quiteterrible. And they managed to unionize to
fight for better conditions and would renegotiatetheir contracts with the bagel baker bagel bakery
owners on an annual basis, andeventually, you know, it became a
pretty lucrative and desirable job within theJewish community. And to you know,
(10:37):
they took it very seriously. Theywould pick it the shops that were using
non union labor to make bagels.They would only allow the sons or the
nephews of union members into the unionbecause they wanted to keep the secrets of
bagel making really closely and tightly guarded. So they were the ones that control
(11:00):
the bagel supply from the early nineteenhundreds up until the nineteen fifties, when
the bagel rolling machine was invented,which undercut their leverage, and eventually they
dissipated, folded into a larger bakersunion, and disappeared for good. Wow
they I mean, I could onlyimagine how bad the working conditions were back
then, and listen, it's evennow. It's just it's a tough business
(11:26):
a lot of just like the pizzaindustry. You know, it's not easy
to find workers these days. Ittakes a long time to prep and get
this stuff ready. It's pretty brutal. I can only imagine what it was
back then. Yeah, it was. It was tough, and today,
you know, it's really fascinating howbagel making has developed so the best bagels
(11:48):
are still rolled by hand by professionalbagel bakers and rollers. That's what I
was going to ask you. Yeah, with the advent of the bagel bagel
rolling machine, was it widely usedin New York? Because I'm not as
familiar with the bagels stores that Ifrequent using machines like that. They're still
(12:09):
handrolled today, even here in LongIsland, which I would argue has as
good of a bagel as anywhere elsein the New York Tri State area.
You know, so it seems likeit might have helped it spread elsewhere in
the country, but maybe not NewYork. Is that the case it was
(12:31):
used? It was used in NewYork, you know sparingly. I think
even today there are still bagel shopsthat are using machines and you may not
even know it. Um. Yeah, but like I, you know,
I don't want to name any names, but there are several well known bagel
shops that are using machines to helpproduce their products. But you are right
(12:56):
that the best bagels are still handrolled. And it's because bagel dough is
a low hydration dough. It's verytough, it's very resilient, and it's
difficult for a machine to handle thatsort of dough. And so when you
roll it by hand, like theseguys that are rolling them have been doing
it for years, decades, theirentire lives. Their dads rolled bagels.
(13:20):
They learned from old members of theunion. And that's not an exaggeration.
I want to tell you a quickstory about the bagel rollers of today.
So the majority of bagel rollers inNew York City are Thai men, and
the reason for that is in thenineteen eighties, the Thai government invited old
members of the Bagel Bakers Union Localthree three eight to come to Thailand and
(13:41):
train their people in the hopes ofcreating a bagel industry in Thailand. So
they flew them over, put themup for several months train dozens of Thai
men how to roll and make bagels. And at the conclusion of the training,
all of those Thai men moved toNew York and got jobs here because
there were already established shops that werewilling to pay them good wages. And
(14:03):
today the majority of bagel rollers inNew York City are the sons and nephews
and friends of those Thai bagel rollerswho came to the city in the in
the eighties. And so these guyshave been doing it literally their entire lives.
They learned from their dads, wholearned from the Bagel Bakers Union,
and that skill cannot be replicated bya machine. So that's why the best
(14:28):
bagels are still a hand roll.That's fascinating. Has there ever been a
documentary on that? Not to myknowledge, I would love to make one,
though I'm with you. Let's let'sdo it, man. It really
sounds fascinating. It is it's quitea it's such a peculiar thing, but
(14:50):
you know, it's really it's reallycool to see. You know, the
bagel has been this historically Jewish food, which we were immigrants here in New
York, and now it's kind ofshifted into other immigrant communities and it's giving
them a profession and a livelihood thatis sustaining them and their families. So
(15:13):
it's kind of cool to see theevolution of it over time. Now you
talked about Polish immigrants come into theUnited States and kind of kicking things off
with your interest in bagels. Haveyou ever made the trip over to Europe
and gone to Poland? And doyou know if the Polish bagel in Poland,
(15:35):
if there is such a thing,resembles anything like we have. So
the Polish bagel, I'll put inquotes because a lot of cultures have a
bagel sort of thing like around breadwith a hole in the middle. The
Polish one is called an obladajani andit is very similar to the pretzels that
(15:56):
we have on the street corners there, like crackery and texture. They're a
lot tougher. They're like a hardpretzel and you can sell you know,
you can get them on any streetcorner and crack hour anywhere in Poland.
I haven't been there myself, butI've spoken to many people that have visited,
and they say, you know,it's not as good as a bagel,
(16:17):
but that that is the food thatkind of inspired we think inspired the
bagel. It was the Obarjani beforethat led to the Jewish community creating the
bagel. And the reason that thebagel exists, I would just you know,
give a little more context here.It came from fairly dark roots.
There were anti Semitic restrictions that preventedJews in Poland from working certain jobs,
(16:41):
living certain places, doing certain things. And one of the restrictions was that
they were not allowed to bake bread, and this was to prevent competition with
the Christian bakers. So the loopholeto get around it is that the Jewish
bakers would boil their dough instead ofbaking it, and that is how the
bagel came to be. They kindof looked at the Obar Johanny and they
(17:03):
said, hey, we can makesomething like this, we just have to
boil the dough instead. And thatis the origin of the bagel and why
it's been such an important part ofJewish cuisine and culture since the seventeenth century.
That's absolutely amazing. Now, Iwould assume the crackering texture feeling allows
(17:25):
it to be less perishable. Maybeit's almost like a toasted thing. And
because that's the issue with that idealwith I'm sure that's the issue with all
bagel makers. You have to kindof guess right in the morning, well
the night before, as you're preppingthis stuff, because you're going to be
stuck with a lot of bagels ifyou don't sell them, because they're not
(17:45):
sellable the next day. One hundredpercent. One hundred percent. And I
mean that that is one of theadvantages that the bagel has. When you
boil it and you create that outercrust, it retains the moisture on the
inside of the you know, ofthe bagel, so that you know,
back in the day, and inseventeenth century Poland, they were eating bagels
(18:06):
two three days after they were madeby dunking it in water, cracking it
open, and then eating the doughout of the inside that was still soft
and edible. And back then too, the bagel was only two to three
ounces large. It was pretty small, and it was eaten as a snack
or as a dinner roll. Soit was you know, it was very
similar to the pretzel, but therewas no such thing as cream cheese,
(18:27):
or locks or sandwiches anything like that. It was a versatile bread that was
relatively inexpensive and easy to produce,and it had the practical advantage that it
would last for several days. Wereusing that protective crust to keep the bread
inside moist, right, And that'sgreat for the customer when you buy it,
(18:52):
you know it's gonna last several days. But the bagel shops don't sell
it past a day, right,correct, I mean the bagel shops around
here, absolutely not. You canget day olds for cheap at some shops,
but the bagels that you're buying atany self respecting shop is going to
be giving you something fresh that wasbaked that's that morning. Now. Where
did the appetizing shops come into thebagel scene, right, Because the most
(19:18):
famous of them all as far asI know, is Russ and Daughters in
New York City, which to medirectly correlates to things you would buy to
put on your bagel. Correct,Yeah, So Russ and Daughters I want
to get the year right. Ithink it was nineteen fourteen, and it
(19:40):
was. It's now a fourth generationowned, you know, still in the
in the family, passed down generationto generation and that so in Jewish food,
Jewish cuisine, you know, havingkosher food is very important, and
one of the main things is you'renot allowed to make meat and milk.
(20:02):
So appetizing shops take care of thefish and the dairy products, while the
delis focus on the meat products.And so these have been important parts of
Jewish and Kosher cuisine since Jews havebeen in New York City. They were
important not just from a culinary perspective, but also they were a safe place
(20:27):
for Jewish people to gather, toget together, to discuss politics, to
discuss current events, and they reallybecame these havens for Jewish people to meet
up and build community. So theyentered the scene in you know, in
New York in the early nineteen hundreds, and Russian Daughters has definitely been the
(20:48):
longest standing one and the best knownone of all the appetizing shops that existed.
But you didn't used to buy bagelsat russ and Daughters. You would
have to go to the bagel shopdown the street to get your bagels,
then go to Russ and Daughters getyour smoked fish, and then you would
create that bagel, cream cheese andlocks sandwich or Nova sandwich for yourself at
(21:11):
home and for your family. What'sinteresting about that combination is I feel like
Russ and Daughters is more well knownthan whatever bagel shop might have existed in
nineteen fourteen or what you know,where you went to go get your bagel.
I can't even name what that wouldbe like. That is the most
(21:33):
famous New York City oldest bagel shop. The oldest one that I know of
is Cosars Bagels and Balis, whichhas been operating in the Lower East Side
since nineteen thirty six. They arethe oldest operating bali bakery in the country.
They didn't start making bagels until thefifties, I think, but they
(21:55):
are still around today making excellent bagelsand balis. There may be a shop
older than that, but that's theone that I'm the most aware of.
And yeah, you're you're right thatyou know, Russing Daughters has kind of
surpassed the fame of any single bagelshop, and I'd be curious to know
(22:15):
why that is. I don't havea great explanation for that, and maybe
I grew up in the Long Islandbubble, but I feel like, well
in Queens, I feel like it'sthe Queens and Long Island bagel shops that
were the names I remember. Imean you you say Leander's Bagels, you
(22:37):
talk about them, and I rememberthem being frozen, right, yep,
Yeah, they were frozen, SoI didn't equate that with Bagel Boss or
things like that. Change like that. And then of course Utopia Bagels.
I don't know if that's an earlyone or not, but it's certainly famous.
(23:00):
Yeah, Utopia is probably the mostfamous. Now. They've been around
since the seventies, but they've kindof picked up in the social media,
you know age, I would say, in the last ten years. But
you're you're right that, like LendersBagels, was an entirely different animal,
entirely different beast than the local bagelchains like Bagel Boss, which has been
an iconic New York, you know, Long Island chain since the seventies as
(23:22):
well. And Murray Lender realized thatby preslicing freezing and shipping them all over
the country that he could you knowhe could make a fortune by introducing the
bagel to places that didn't have them, so I think he wouldn't see it
as much growing up in an areathat had a bunch of bagel shops around,
because he was targeting they were targetingmore the areas that didn't have any
(23:47):
bagels at all and kind of introducingit to those people. Now, a
couple of things that he did tomake it more popular and appealing to the
masses was one, he made theirbread closer to wonderbread, which is the
popular bread at the time, soit truly is a bagel shaped bread,
not really a bagel. And twois he introduced sweet flavors like blueberry and
(24:08):
cinnamon raising because he knew that theAmerican public loves their sweets. And to
this day, Jim the most popularbagel flavor in the country is a blueberry
bagel. Never would have guessed that. Can you believe in a million years
would have guessed this. No,that's that's because that's how most people were
(24:30):
introduced to it. Wow, Idon't know. That blows my mind.
I've been trying to if not abagel like I am now specializing in this
Scotch shot of bread, which isa light airy facaccia like bread. And
sometimes when I bring my food trailerto a farmer's market, I'm there in
(24:52):
morning hours and I've been trying toget people to taste this cream cheese and
red onion on this Italian light everybread and it's not going over men,
it's not working, but it tastesamazing. I just can't people to cross
over. They like they need thebagel. The bagels actually heavier in a
(25:17):
lot of ways, way heavier,way denser. Yeah, it's just this,
it's this iconic trio the bagels,the cream cheese and the locks that
you know, people just so deeplyassociate with each other that it's hard to
replace any one of those ingredients.Yeah, it's it's pretty damn You never
know, you never know, Yeah, you never know. We get the
(25:40):
right person to talk about it,who knows. Um. So, in
terms of breakthroughs in the bagel business, we talked about lenders, you know.
So between the seventies and now,what have been any, if any
major turning points in the bagel business. There's been two big ones, and
(26:07):
one I know you're very familiar withis the creation of the everything bagel,
right, which is how we originallystarted talking, was that's right. You
did some investigation into where the everythingbagel came from, right, and found
that there is no real there's noreal clear answer, right, Like several
people kind of claim yea for itseveral It seems to be the kind of
(26:32):
thing that it happens in comedy too. Instand up comedy. You know,
people are reading the news, they'reliving separate lives all around the country,
and they happen to tell a jokecompletely on their own, and at the
round the same time, someone elsetells a similar joke, and then there's
this thing who stole from who Isaid it first. In my opinion,
(26:56):
that's what happened with the everything bagel, because you talked to all these guys.
I think they really came up withit on their own. I don't
think they necessarily stole it. Butaround the same time, they found that
they were using all these seeds fromdifferent things, from poppied assault to this
and that, and rather than wastethem, they combined them. And a
lot of people did it around thesame time and had success with it.
(27:19):
And you know, just like Iclaim to have invented the presuto bite out
of prasutto bread. There's probably otherpeople that have done it, but you
know, in their way they inventedit, but you can't really you can't
really prove it. And they mayhave invented it around the same year at
(27:40):
the same time, who knows whoknows. But regardless of who deserves credit
for it, the fact is thateverything bagels. Seasoning has become immensely popular,
not just on bagels but on everything. I talk about frequently that everything
afacation of everything, because you canfind it in savory foods, you can
find it in sweet food, youcan find it on cake, donuts and
(28:00):
ice cream. There's everything seasoning bythe bottle. There's everything seasoning on everything
nowadays, and I think that hasreally helped the profile of the bagel in
the past forty years. You knowwhat's hilarious to me about that is,
I swear this is true. TheItalians are just discovering it. The New
York Italians just now in twenty twentythree, they're like, oh my god,
(28:23):
you know you could. And I'mtalking about guys that produce massive amounts
of bread and have been in breadfamilies forever are just starting to use everything
seeds and talking about it like itwas just invented. I mean, it
takes time for these things to maketheir way around. I'm I'm really curious
to see what they do with it, because I'm sure it's going to be
amazing. Yeah yeah, Okay,so the everything bagel, and then I
(28:48):
think I know what the next oneis. Well, and I think there
is a person credited with the actualinvention of this. This is correct,
Yes, rainbow bagel. You're talkingthe rainbow bagel exactly. So Scott Razillo
was a bagel baker in East Williamsburgwho invented the rainbow bagel, which is
you know, for anyone that hasn'tseen it, it's got different layers of
(29:12):
colored dough rolled together, so itresembles a rainbow. Scott, who fancied
himself an artist, not a baker, but an artist, came up with
the idea for the rainbow bagel inthe early two thousands and kept at it
for years and years and years,and finally in twenty fifteen, Instagram helped
(29:33):
it go super viral. So Scotthad been you know, similar to it.
Like I said, with your Fikashacreation, just keep at it.
Because you never know. Scott keptat it for I don't know a dozen
years, making it for himself andhis local customers, and then one day
it goes viral on Instagram and itchanged his entire life. You know,
it became insanely popular. It gotpicked up by the mainstream media far and
(29:57):
wide. People were traveling to EastWilliamsburg from all over the world waiting in
hours long lines to try this covetedrainbow bagel, which takes exactly like a
Plaine bagel. Well, Scott,to his credit, he made it.
(30:17):
He really souped it up. Hewould put all these sweet cream cheeses,
cotton candy, all these different crazycreations. It was really like more the
cake than bagel in my opinion,but it was. It was a huge
success for Scott. Now, therest of the bagel community reacted in horror.
I mean, people don't even likeyou know, bagel purists don't even
(30:40):
like blueberry bagels, don't like sweetbagels, let alone a rainbow bagel,
and so people called it an abomination. You know, they thought, this
is this is not a bagel atall. But it has been the perfect
bagel for the age of social media, where everyone is posting their food all
the time, and the rainbow bagelis so photogenic that it's kept bagels on
(31:04):
people's minds because they see them onsocial media and on the internet all the
time. Kids love them, touristslove them, and I think, you
know, nowadays, probably four outof five bagel shops are offering a bit
of rainbow bagel. They may not, you know, make it themselves,
but they found that it's something thatpeople want and you got to kind of
(31:26):
meet the customer where they are.We bought them this weekend. We had,
you know, so what fourth ofJuly weekend. My middle son was
in from California, My brother wasin and his family was in from New
Hampshire. My sister in law wasin from Connecticut. They all want bagels.
They can't They still can't get thebagels they want to get in these
(31:49):
places. So we got bagels,and of course we got rainbow bagels because
they were kids, and the kidslove the rainbow bagels. It's just they
just love them. But now speakingof this, I mean, we know
it's possible to make a great bagelin Connecticut, which is only fifty minutes
from Manhattan, and I keep kickingmyself, like I should ditch everything,
(32:14):
and I should do it because it'sgot to be like you just need the
guys. You need the hand rollingguys. You boil it in your water,
you use the same rest. It'sdoable. Is the problem that they're
buying these machines and they're making lighterair or dough that could go through the
machines so that it doesn't have tobe hand rolled. So there's a couple
(32:38):
of there's a couple of things thatyou'll find in bagels outside of the New
York metro area. One, theycould be machine rolled. Another common method
is poking a hole through a ballof dough doesn't give it the same twist
and texture as you're gonna find now, which, by the way, you
(33:00):
know in my sour dough baking andI baked some bagels. When you look
up a lot of recipes, alot of people teach you to poke a
hole through it. Yeah, becausethey don't they don't know how to do
it the traditional way by hand rollingit, and it's it's difficult to do.
It's daunting if you've never done itbefore and you don't have someone to
(33:21):
teach you. It's not the easiestskill. So portioning out the dough and
poking a hole in the middle isdefinitely the more intuitive and the easier way
to do it. But it doesn'tresult in the same texture at the end
of the day that you're going toget when you get a true hand rolled,
hand twisted bagel. And so Ithink that is certainly one big difference.
(33:45):
Now, Jim, I have hadgreat bagels outside of New York,
and almost every time it's been aNew Yorker who learned how to make them
here and moved out of the citysomewhere else, from Nashville to Denver,
and you know, applied the knowledgethat they learned. So people ask me
(34:06):
all the time, is it thewater? Is it the water that make
New York bagels great? The wateris helpful. We have a very soft
water here in New York. It'slow in the mineral concentrates that make it
ideal for bread baking, and ofcourse, like any other ingredient that you
put into your food, it's goingto impact the end result. That being
(34:28):
said, while the water is helpful, it's not necessary. You can make
great bagels without the water. AndI think it's the knowledge and the skills,
and you know the generations really ofinstitutional knowledge that exists here in the
New York metro area and in Montrealthat get passed down and down and down.
(34:51):
So I think you can do it, and I think people are doing
it. Question So in pizza,I believe it was Chris beyond Go in
Phoenix, Arizona that really, youknow, was the guy who people said,
this pizza here in Phoenix is asgood as any pizza you could get
in New York and it is nowis there is there an analogy here?
(35:15):
Is there a bagel place outside ofthe Tri state area somewhere else in the
country that you could tell us aboutthat if we're traveling, we should definitely
visit. And is a great bagel? There's two places. One is right
in our neck of the woods popUp Bagels in Connecticut. So they are
the two times winner of the bestbagel at where is it? We're in
(35:38):
Connecticut. They're in Westport, Connecticut. They have several different outposts that they
sell bagels in. They just openedup their first brick and mortar in Greenwich
Village here in the city. Really, but they are a Connecticut based bagel
and they've beaten. You know,the who's who of New York bagel shops
at the past couple of Bagel Festevents, which is centered around a best
(36:00):
bagel competition where everyone is gutting forthis top prize. So Papa Bagels is
one. And then according to TheNew York Times, the best bagels in
the country are in California. Theycited In twenty twenty one, the New
York Times published an article saying,sorry, New York, the best bagels
are in California, and they citedCourage Bagels and in La and boy Check
(36:24):
Bagels in Berkeley as bagel bakers thatare making better bagels that exist here in
New York. So those are thoseare the couple that I would throw out
there that have garnered a reputation.Now, some would argue that Courage and
Pop Up are making not bagels butbread, bagel shaped bread that is,
(36:47):
you know, still delicious by allmeans, but not truly a bagel if
you want to get nitty griddy intothe details. So it's it's stirred up
a lot of controversy. There's there'shot debate in the bagel world right now
over what constitutes a bagel. Andwho makes the best. What are these
two places using the bagel for?Are they making sandwiches like traditional sandwiches?
(37:12):
Are they doing traditional appetizing and creamcheese pop up as traditional appetizing and cream
cheese. They don't make sandwiches.You have to buy minimum three bagels plus
a schmere, plus you can getthe fish if you want. You have
to make it yourself. And thenCourage is on the other end of the
spectrum where they're doing these really decadentsandwiches and are using the bagel as like
(37:36):
a base. So they're doing that'skind of what I'm doing my food truck,
which Scotch out of bread because I'mtaking a page from Tartine or Republic
Bakery out in Los Angeles, rightand using my bread is the anchor to
serve meals on yep, which islike very common nowadays. And it's import
I mean, you know the economicsof it. Oh yeah, yeah.
(37:57):
If you're not pumping out the volumethat you can do in a New York
bagel shop here where you've got thousandsand thousands of people coming through your door
and ordering online every day, thenyou need that higher ticket price. Okay,
could I I'm gonna give you alesson you didn't ask for in how
this could backfire on me. Ijust before this call, got got off
(38:28):
the phone with a fair here inLong Island to bring my food truck to.
Because that's right, I'm only doingthis now three weeks and you have
to pay sight fees and they rangefrom fifty dollars to what I'm about to
tell you, So they want ninehundred and fifty dollars for me to park
at this fair for eight hours forone day. That's before I pay my
(38:52):
food costs, before I pay myemployees. So it's funny, like one
of the reasons I did this newbusiness model is because of what you just
said. I said, Hey,I think I could, uh you know,
get a higher ticket price. Icould probably increase my profits by selling
(39:13):
food. Instead of a loaf ofbread for five six eight, I could
sell sandwiches for fifteen sixteen and havea family and so on. But the
expense is a crazy it's it's notso I don't know yet if it's going
to be better or not. Umyeah, I mean it's not throw that
(39:34):
in there. No matter which wayyou slice it. It is not an
easy and you know, if itwas everyone would do it and then you'd
have to go the other way again. So it's finding what you do really
well and doubling tripling down on thatand uh, you know, trying to
be the best. You know,I was laughing when you said, what's
his last name? Uh, ScottRasilo? Rasilo? What what bagel store
(40:00):
are you from? By the way, the bagel store. Yeah, but
he refers to himself as an artist. You say, I kind of like
to think that too. I justI just said, you know, the
other day, my wife is like, you have you're adding items without me
knowing. You can't do this.You have to tell me. And we're
supposed to simplify things. And I'mlike, I'm an artist. I got
(40:21):
into this from film and television becauseI want to create art. But she's
right, you know, it's likeyou can only fit so much stuff on
this twelve foot truck. Um.But it is what keeps me inspired is
like trying these new things, andit's it's good for artists to have constraints
sometimes, right, Like yeah,can actually foster creexpected ways. So you
(40:45):
know, in speaking in that,I've really been studying how to I do
these bread bawls. So then thequestion is what he put in the bread
bowls? And you know, Ihave an Italian slant on the truck.
Um not everything has to be youknow that, but it's whatever it works
for me, it works for thecustomer base. And I've been trying to
(41:07):
figure out. The only heat sourceI have on the truck is a pizza
oven. Uh It's a Gosney domepizza oven that burns about nine hundred degrees.
Maybe the surface will get down tosix fifty. But I've how do
I prep pasta in here? AndI figured it out. I have figured
out, you know, how todo it so that you're getting an al
(41:30):
dente, freshly made pasta and abread ball off the truck. And it's
only because of the constraints. UmSo, I do think it's pretty awesome
to have constraints. That's not whatthey are. I would love some fresh
pasta and a fresh bread ball.I mean, that's a carb heaven right
there. It's a lot of carbs. You need a nap afterwards. Uh.
(41:53):
So we'll wrap things up. Ido want to hear about bagel Fest.
How long it's been going on?I know I was. I was
trying to get there last year andcouldn't because my farmer's markets. Are you
doing another one this year? Weare? Yeah, the fourth Annual Bagel
Fest is taking place October twenty firstand twenty second. We're moving it into
(42:15):
Manhattan this year, so we're jumpingacross the bridge from Brooklyn into Chelsea and
all right, Chelsea, you're doingit. I can't say the venue quite
yet. It'll be coming soon,but it'll be. You know, it's
a great new venue in the heartof the city, and I think it's
(42:36):
gonna help the event grow. Imean, we had over two thousand people,
thirty five vendors over the course ofthe weekend last year, and I'm
you know, except that that's comingfrom we started with three hundred and fifty
people in zero vendors in like anartist space in Bushwick, and now,
you know, it's it's grown quiteimmensely into what it is today, and
(42:57):
I think it's going to continue growingas the bagel industry's soul trade and consumer
show. And it's really an opportunityfor all these vendors who it's a platform
for them to show off what theydo to a really targeted and enthusiastic community
who's excited to engage with them,in addition to lots of industry suppliers people
(43:23):
who you know who work cream,cheese, coffee, smoke, fish,
whatever, who are there to networkand try to facilitate new relationships and business
and trade and commerce with all ofthese amazing bagel shops that are there.
So it's it's turned into both.There's a consumer element to it and a
trade element as well, And soI'm trying to figure out, you know,
(43:45):
how to how to grow this thingand satisfy kind of both both customers,
both types of customers. So I'vehad this conversation with about Pizza Fest.
H well, the Pizza Expo sorryin Las Vegas, and I know
they have other cities they do itin, but I talked to people pros
who go and attend, and it'smostly an industry festival. Yeah, but
(44:10):
they do one day consumer event outof the three days, and then they
go heavy industry with panels and peoplethat I know in the business from New
York and the rest of the countryfly in and make the plans around attending
it. And it sounds pretty damnawesome, but it is two completely different
(44:32):
things in a way. Yeah,yeah, and it look this has been
an unexpected evolution for me. Imean I started Bigelfests because it was an
event I wanted to go to asa consumer, and that was the approach
that I took with it. Ididn't imagine it was going to turn into
this industry professional trade show and havethis whole element to it. And so
(44:53):
now you know, what you justsaid makes a whole lot of sense.
Is dedicate one or two days toone out of things and another one or
two days to uh, you know, to the consumer side of things to
help satisfy both both both types ofcustomers. But this year is going to
be great. We've got some amazingvendors lined up, some amazing sponsors,
(45:15):
you know, moving into Chelsea,I think is just going to help with
the accessibility of it draw an evenbigger crowd. And you know, Pop
Up Bagels has really shown what youcan do by winning the Best Bagel award.
They were a pandemic project that startedin Adam Goldberg's backyard over the course
(45:37):
of pandemic and you know a fewyears later they win the Best Bagel at
Bagelfest and now all of a suddenyou know, they're the most viral bagel
on TikTok and Instagram, and they'reall over the place, and they've got
celebrity investors like Paul Rudd and MichaelPhelps and you know, all of these
crazy big names that are helping themexpand nationally. So it's a pretty it's
(45:58):
pretty cool to see what people havedone with the plat form and what it
can do for these small mom andpop shops that may not have the marketing
resources to compete with the big corporations. Wild I'm interested in uh learning more
about that. And tickets will beon sale for Bagel Fest starting win uh
(46:20):
in a couple of weeks. Yeah, by by the end of July.
We're still shoring up a few detailsand the event takes place October twenty first,
twenty second, but we'll have ticketson sale by the end of July,
all right, And we could allfollow the Bagel Ambassador on Instagram or
what's the exact handle, bagel Ambassador. That's what I am on Instagram,
um, and you know you canfollow Bagel Fest as well. But but
(46:43):
yeah, this has been great,Jim. I appreciate it's great to catch
up with you, and I hopeyou can make it work for I know
you were talking about collaboring with BagelBoss last year on your Pursuado. I'm
still interested in it. Okay,we'll let it happen. Let's make it
happen. All right, we'll talkoffline about that. Sam. It was
good to talk to you. Ihoped to be at Bagelfest this year and
(47:06):
we'll talk soon, Buddy. Soundsgreat, Thanks Jim. This episode of
Bread for the People was brought toyou by Side Hustle Bread, Long Island's
handcrafted artisanal bread company. Side HustleBread is a family run business that's bringing
the neighborhood field back to Long Island, one loaf at a time. If
you like what you're hearing, don'tforget to head on over tie iTunes and
(47:27):
rate and review this episode. Reviewingand rating is the most effective way to
help us grow our audience. Thisepisode was produced by Milestone TV and Film.
I'm your host, Jim Serpico.Less it be the bread, Everyone,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.